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Commons:Deletion requests/Pergamon World Atlas

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Pergamon World Atlas

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These are over 300 maps scanned from Pergamon World Atlas, published in 1968 (the maps appear to be created in 1967). I see no reason for those files to be hosted here on the CC-BY-SA licence.

The source page mentions that those maps may be copirighted and its the user responsibility to seek permission. Once the permission is obtained they will allow the use of their material under a Creative Commons non-commercial license. --Botev (talk) 06:35, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I also raised that question with the uploader. These are fine maps, but the institution that created them seems defunct (Polish Army Topography Service). So, the initial uploader should provide a reasoning why Polish copyright would allow Commons to host the files, potentially some kind of exception for government-produced material.
Otherwise, my current assumption is that this atlas can enter public domain at earliest in 1968 + 70 + 1. So, review for Undelete 2039. --Enyavar (talk) 08:50, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm afraid those maps would still be copyrighted in the USA for 95 years after publication due to URAA, so it's more like Undelete 2064. --Botev (talk) 08:57, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm afaid I may not fully grasp the URAA legal conditions, but I did check them out. As far as I see it, the Pergamon Atlas was published in both Poland (Book No. 08-001958) and the United States (LoC Card No. 67-20808) in 1968, and that would mean it was still copyrighted as of 1996. The Main Tests thus indicate 1a YES AND 1b NO => 1=NO and 2=YES; with a NO on either of these two tests resulting in URAA not being applicable, unless I misunderstood the tests. That would mean the copyright still is in place until 2039 but not 2064. (Unless there is an applicable PD license to be found, and I somehow have doubts with that, see below.) --Enyavar (talk) 14:31, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know if it's useful, but some of these maps are being used for commercial purposes, like here and here. So, from this point of view, I don't have issues with these maps.--Babelia (talk) 15:06, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The point is we need explaination as to why these maps can be used freely for any purpose and by anyone. The mere fact that someone sells those maps is not enough. From this point of view, I regard these maps as copyrighted. --Botev (talk) 17:34, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Babelia, there is sadly a reason why Commons has a lack media from between the 1950s and 2000s.
David Rumsey and other sites are apparently seing no risks with getting sued - or there are 'secret' agreements with the copyright owners that they don't (and don't need need to) make transparent. Commons has different principles, so Botev is right here. Commons needs to verify that the maps are free to use, and we currently can't. Abandonment by the copyright owners does not waive copyright - we either need to point to the concrete rule that makes this material free from copyright; or we need a free licensing statement by the copyright owners that can be attached via VRT. --Enyavar (talk) 22:12, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

However, on the second thought, I wonder if those maps can qualify as official material and fall under {{PD-Polishsymbol}}, perhaps? --Botev (talk) 09:57, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Anything needed to keep these images in Commons. Babelia (talk) 19:52, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you can find a rule that you can bend into applying, please do so. The current license attached to all these files would NOT apply, and I would doubt that PD-Polishsymbol is much better: are these maps "official documents", just because a military cartography institute made them? Each of the full pages has a copyright symbol indicating the (mostly defunct) copyright holders, and their copyright has not yet expired, since only about three generations have passed. I would think that we could all squint our eyes and let it pass if proper licenses with a valid rationale get attached. Since I cannot think of anyone who might still profit commercially of 1967 statistical maps. The data is long outdated, but seems like a good base if we can truly consider it free historical knowledge. However, Babelia you should be aware of Commons:PCP. Commons does not operate on fair use, and life is not fair use either.
On the plus side, I would think that SVG derivatives that only use the displayed data but not the style of these maps, would not fall under copyright. --Enyavar (talk) 13:32, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think we could squint our eyes - either it's copyrighted or it isn't. Yes, I was thinking it might be "official material" because a military institute made it in the course of performing its tasks but if you say it has a copyright notice than it isn't. In that case   Delete. --Botev (talk) 14:48, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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