File talk:Map-TurkicLanguages.png

From Wikimedia Commons, the free media repository
Jump to navigation Jump to search

Turkic provences

[edit]

maby we should add a new catagory -reagions where a turkic luanguage is majoroty spoken.--J intela (talk) 04:12, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe. Because, Turkic languages are spoken also in Bulgaria, Iraq, Crimea etc... File:Turkic languages.png is more realistic. Takabeg (talk) 23:55, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, this map does not show certain areas where turkic languages are spoken, in europe for example. 178.84.115.162 07:00, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, parts of Bulgaria, Greece, eastern Europe, Georgia and Armenia are missing.

@ Mr. Anonymous: Are you serious? Explain us in understandable words wat you want or let it be! Personal attacs are useless! Other things are vandalism! So tell us wat you want or go away! -- 92.78.178.161 20:35, 17 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In which part of Armenia is turkic spoken??? + File:Turkic languages.png is not realistic too, Eastern parts of Turkey etc. MrArmJack (talk) 18:53, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Gagauzia wasn't missing, it's just tiny. Added Crimea. Bayan Ölgiy changed to #0090FF. Bulgaria, Greece, Germany, the Netherlands, and the likes probably needs a new category of square dots similar to this, for "regions where a Turkic language is spoken by a minority". --Shibo77 20:51, 6 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
And why Bayan Ölgiy changed to #0090FF as this provence is not an autonomy?
"regions where a Turkic language is spoken by a minority" is a wide definition, in almost every country is a Turkic minority, but Montenegro or FYRM, Iraq or Syria have native Turkic population, but Germany etc - immigrant population only. Bogomolov.PL (talk) 22:36, 6 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Hi! There are currently 3 categories according to the image description:
  • #0548A1 "Countries with an official Turkic language"
  • #006AFF "Autonomous regions with an official Turkic language"
  • #0090FF "Regions where a Turkic language is spoken by a majority"
Since Bayan Ölgiy is not an autonomous region, I changed it to #0090FF. How do you propose we depict the Turkish, Turkmen, Azeri, and other Turkic minorities in FYR Macedonia, Montenegro, Kosovo, Bulgaria, Greece, Albania, Iraq, Syria, etc.? I propose to use square dots ■ in countries where there is a significant minority >10000 population. --Shibo77 10:08, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
A main problem is a minority Turkic speaking share. What is this share level to be depicted on our map? 10%, 5%? We have a lot of regions in Russia with notable Turkic peoples minority (out of Turkic autonomous regions). Bogomolov.PL (talk) 17:24, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
And about a color scheme on this map used: these three blue hues are difficult to distinguish when a filled spot is relatively small (with Bayan Ölgiy is a same problem). Bogomolov.PL (talk) 17:53, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I've altered the colours slightly:
  • #043F8E "Countries with an official Turkic language"
  • #006AFF "Autonomous subdivisions with an official Turkic language"
  • #01D5FA "Subdivisions where a Turkic language is spoken by a majority"
  • ■ "Countries where a Turkic language is spoken by a minority population of at least 50000"
For the last category, the problem with using percentage shares is since they are the minority, the population is small when compared to the population of the entire country (e.g., Iraqi Turkmens only ~2% of Iraqis), but they may form the majority in specific regions (e.g., Türkmeneli), so I have used population figures of over 50000 based on Ethnologue: Afghanistan ([1]), BiH ([2]), Bulgaria ([3]), Greece ([4]), Iraq ([5]), Macedonia ([6]), Syria ([7]). --Shibo77 08:52, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
What do you mean "regions"? A number of regions (provinces) in Russia, West Europe has over 50,000 Turkic speaking minorities, at Moscow City proper - 304,000 , Moscow Region - 133,000, Saint-Petersburg City - 89,000, Krasnodar Region - 59,000, Astrakhan Region - 236,000, Volgograd region - 107,000, Rostov Region - 82,000, Stavropol Region - 106,000, Udmurt Republic - 110,000, Perm Region - 165,000, Nizhny Novgorod Region - 69,000, Orenburg Region - 346,000 Penza Region - 97,000, Samara Region - 262,000, Saratov Region - 165,000, Ulyanovsk Region - 253,000, Sverdlovsk Region - 219,000, Tyumen Region - 430,000 (including Khanty-Mansi Autonomous Borough - 226,000 and Yamal-Nenets Autonomous Borough - 64,000), Chelyabinsk Region - 410,000, Krasnoyarsk Region - 99,000, Kemerovo Region - 69,000, Novosibirsk Region - 70,000, Omsk Region - 134,000. Bogomolov.PL (talk) 10:13, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Countries. Some of those oblasty could be considered as owing to immigration.--Shibo77 13:40, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • But we use provinces with Turkic majority so why we can not use provinces for the Turkic minorities depiction? And a major part of the provinces I've listed have not immigrant but native Turkic population. Bogomolov.PL (talk) 14:53, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It is mainly for simplicity that countries are used instead of subdivisions, otherwise there would be too much information for such a map. For example, how do you distinguish which one has the native Turkic population and which one has the immigrant population in Moscow Oblast compared to Tyumen. How many of the 133,000 for Moscow Oblast are native Turkic, and how is "native" defined for Moscow? If we include immigrant populations, then what about Western Europe, the US, and other countries with large immigrant Turkic populations? I think that goes beyond the scope of this current map. --Shibo77 02:55, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • It depends of immigrant definition. It is clear that in West Europe is no native Turkic population as millions of Turks are the immigrants or immigrants descendants. You can see the regions (provinces) adjacent the Turkic majority areas have native rural Turkic population, but not adjacent - urban migrant population only. So Moscow, Saint-Petersburg and Moscow Region are definitely migrant, the same with Khanty-Mansi Autonomous Borough and Yamal-Nenets Autonomous Borough (migrant population at the oil-fields), Rostov Region. But the rest of the regions listed has native Turkic population. Bogomolov.PL (talk) 08:49, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You are right. It depends on the definition, and up to now nobody formulated one, which was systematically implemented on the map. The 50k inhabitants criteria obviously makes a few commenters here unhappy. The immigrant definition is inappropriate, as Turks have been immigrants almost everywhere (even in Turkey) at some point in the human history. A natural turning point would be the end of the Osman Empire, where Turkish (or an immediate predecessor version) was the official language. Another point was the disappearance of the Soviet Union, where Turkic languages were not allowed to be used, after which those suddenly popped up on the census again. And we have to keep in mind that Turkish speakers in Central Europe, whose ancestors migrated there after the Second World War, are nowadays more numerous than certain more historical Turkish minorities. In my opinion, the map should principally show the present situation, making bigger communities (as of today) more visible than historical ones. If a distinction is needed, one could point out "Turkish minorities outside former settlement areas of the Osman Empire" for the European and American regions. --DirkHoffmann (talk) 20:27, 22 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Germany

[edit]

Per definition of "Countries where a Turkic language is spoken by a minority population of at least 50000", Germany has to be added (1.5 to 6 million). For figures see en:Turks in Germany and [8] --BR, .js 23:15, 11 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

According to Wikipedia, population of Turks in Germany is 2.7M, in the Netherlands is 409k, in France at least 208k. Hence they all pass the more than 50k minority criteria and should be added. Also in the USA there are almost 200k en:Turkish_Americans counted, out of which 59k households spoke Turkish in 2000. --DirkHoffmann (talk) 20:05, 22 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Are you going to do that some time in the near future? Or do you have concrete ideas what to change? --DirkHoffmann (talk) 20:05, 22 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Requested edit

[edit]

{{Protected edit}} Please add {{SVG|linguistic map}}. Thanks. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 11:33, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done. -- CptViraj (talk) 14:08, 16 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File_talk:Map-TurkicLanguages.png&oldid=630185602"