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:I'm of a few views here that I'm not sure how to reconcile. On one hand, I think it's important when making claims that they are cited to their source if that source isn't "final". On the other hand, the Cass Review is such that it's a large scale review that, while some people dissent to it, should be able to have its findings taken without the attribution. Yet still, this statement in question is being cited to the ''interim report'', which ''should'' be attributed if it's being discussed as something the interim report said (which it is here).{{pb}}I'm not sure why this is only in background to begin with though - with barely any (if any) information in the actual discussion of the final Review. If there isn't going to be a section about the psychological support that is/should be provided in discussing the final results of the Review, then I'm not sure how it's relevant background information in the first place. If a section can be added discussing the findings of the final Review on this matter, then the background should continue to state that the interim report made that claim, since that's what the background paragraph in question is discussing. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez | [[User:berchanhimez|me]] | [[User talk:berchanhimez|talk to me!]] 03:11, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
::I mean the Cass Review is not an undisputed report in the medical field by any stretch, and simply saying “According to the Cass Review, XYZ” goes a long way towards maintaining an NPOV on the topic. I think presenting the full report’s findings as undisputed fact without attribution, when we have countless medorgs across the globe including in the UK disputing it and accusing it of political machinations, misleads the reader at best and at worst is just pov. [[User:Snokalok|Snokalok]] ([[User talk:Snokalok|talk]]) 11:14, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
:::But we don't "have countless medorgs across the globe including in the UK disputing it". Where "it" means all of it. Nor are they "countless" vs "handful". The US ones have a common origin and united around a right-wing conservative domestic problem and are, sadly, playing at legal politics, not evidence based medicine.
:::There are two aspects to the review. One is the evidence both in terms of medical studies and the facts about the state of NHS England in this area. The other is in what should be done as a result. There is some criticism of the evidence, nearly all at an embarrassing level of competence by people with conflict of interest or no training at all in this field. Mostly that's about puberty blockers. And there's some criticism about what to do about it. Mostly that's about puberty blockers. And some of the criticism is of the puberty blocker ban, which isn't even recommended by the review.
:::But for the rest of it, as WAID points out, this is an NHS England commissioned report into the state of NHS England, which NHS England has accepted and vowed to fix. There isn't any need for any "According to the Cass Review" attribute any more than if [[National Highways]] published a report that said how long the A1 was and the condition of the road surface. None of these supposed "countless medorgs" dispute any of that. For our purposes, is the Cass Review a reliable source on the state of NHS England's trans healthcare? Absolutely. We can state these things as facts with a little numbered box after.
:::I've just finished reading [https://www.gov.scot/publications/cass-review-implications-scotland/ Cass Review: Implications for Scotland]. This is a 57-page NHS Scotland commissioned report written by a multidisciplinary team of experts and by the looks of it took weeks if not months to write. I wonder how many editors here have read it vs the Yale PDF or half-page BMA Council bullet-point statement.
:::The NHS Scotland report not only agrees with the Cass Review about the evidence and consequences, but goes through each of the 30+ recommendations working out how they apply to NHS Scotland. The differences, where they exist, are mostly because NHS Scotland is organised differently or has different programmes for improvement to occur within. They entirely accept Cass's analysis of the state of NHS England trans healthcare and agree NHS Scotland shares many of the same crises and solutions. What is interesting to me is that the NHS Scotland report will actually shape the future of trans healthcare in Scotland (much as the Cass Review will shape it for England). Unlike the other "publications" we have invested so much energy on, which will be forgotten about.
:::Snokalok, I really do encourage you to read the NHS Scotland report. Skim it at least. I know you won't agree with the puberty blocker bits but I think you will come away with a feeling that this is actually only a very very tiny part of the Cass Review. That most of it is about a health service that really is universally agreed as ''entirely failing its patients'' and for which radical change and investment is needed. I think you may also get a feeling that when the BMA council recommended to pause the implementation of the Cass Review and work to block it, why so many NHS doctors were aghast. -- [[User:Colin|Colin]]°[[User talk:Colin|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 12:27, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
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