Talk:Nafion
 | Chemicals B‑class Low‑importance | |||||||||
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 | United States: Delaware Unassessed | ||||||||||||
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A fluoropolymer base that is also a superacid
Nice. :D —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.24.47.178 (talk) 15:33, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
Reference to specific scientist removed
I have removed the sentence: "Dr. Ronny Huang of Cornell University is the chief researcher of this cutting edge science and has written numerous publications." for a variety of reasons. Firstly, I can find no reference to Dr. Ronny Huang at Cornell. If you do a person search, you won't find him listed as faculty. Furthermore, if you explicitly check the departments of Materials Science and Engineering or Chemical Engineering, or Chemistry and Chemical Biology, you won't find him listed. In addition, there are literally hundreds of researchers working in the field of fuel cells, so one can hardly be singled out as "the chief researcher." Furthermore, if Dr. Huang really has published "numerous" papers in this field, I cannot find any of them on scientific search engines, such as web-of-science (registration required) or even google scholar. It seems like this entry is not legitimate and I am therefore removing it.
Details, details, details
How is this stuff made? Are relevant monomers known, e.g. CF2=CFSO3H and CF2=CF-CF2SO3H? Is Nafion processable - soluble, spinnable, extrudable, etc.? How is it coated onto electrodes etc? How acidic is it? --Smokefoot 04:46, 27 February 2006 (UTC) A precursor polymer is made by copolymerization of CF2=CF2 (TFE) and a perfluorovinyl ether monomer with an -SO2F functional group : CF2=CF-O-CF2CF(CF3)-O-CF2CF2-SO2F. This precursor is extrudable etc. and once fabricated to the final shape (film etc.) converted to the final polymer by treatment with hot NaOH solution followed by acid exchange to yield -SO3H functional groups. This can be converted to a "liquid composition" (possibly not a true solution) in a water / alcohol solvent.70.20.204.155 15:57, 2 September 2006 (UTC)W.Grot151.197.54.195 20:51, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
A question that cleary described this was on pre-universitairy education level final chemisty exam this year in the Netherlands, there it was stated that the group on the end of the CSO2- is not OH- but H+ which correctly fits the electrical charge and the function as a H+ ion transporting membrane. The exam also contained a picture which was in my opinion better showing the structure of the polymer, maybe someone who also speaks english and dutch can check this out. The exam is freely available on the web, it is: http://www2.cito.nl/vo/ex2008/800025-1-025o.pdf the questions that clearly describe the polymer including a detailed picture of the structure are questions 17-23.
- Well your professor blew it. The depicted functional group -O-CF2-SO3H is incorrect. And the picture in this article is pretty decent: it emphasizes that Nafion is related to triflic acid, with the key functionality featuring a highly acidic sulfonic acid group, an excellent H+ donor. Your probing questions are helpful for this project.--Smokefoot (talk) 01:21, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Additional information
I will add the importance of structure and more specific reactions very soon. --Trikes120 06:26, 28 February 2006 (UTC) Look in : www.nafion.mysite.com
Water and ion permittivity wrong?
I suppose that the following paragraph is essentially wrong: "The greater the degree of hydration of the Nafion membrane, the lower the ion permittivity. Since water is a byproduct of the fuel cell process, this limits the utility for Nafion for PEM fuel cells." In the introduction of this paper [1], DOI 10.1007/s11708-007-0005-y, it's reported that water is essential to conduct protons. Cited: "Under water-swollen conditions, a Nafion membrane can conduct protons and block electrons." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.83.232.68 (talk) 14:13, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
Featured article potential?
This article has come a very long way forward since the beginning of the year. I wouldn't be able myself to address the questions arising from a Featured Article Candidate critique, but I think this article would make a fine candidate for consideration. User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 00:44, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
I would be willing to help, particularly discussing the importance for mankind / environment (reduction of mercury pollution and energy consumption). I just finished the draft for a book "Fluorinated Ionomers" and sent it of to the publisher. W. Grot 151.197.54.195 20:48, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
- Waaaaaait a cott'on pickin' minute! Is that signed W. Grot? The same W. Grot who developed the stuff in the first place? As neat as that is (and it really is neat, because DuPont seem to have major problems getting back to inquiries given that a number of the products they sell are hard to get other than direct from them, so hearing from an actual DuPonter is a strange thing), it does potentially bias your opinions on the material.