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Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Daß Wölf (talk | contribs) at 15:41, 4 October 2024 (→Bosnia and Herzegovina floods: anybody is welcome to help with the layout). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events. A light green header appears under each daily section – it includes transcluded Portal:Current events items for that day. You can discuss ITN candidates under the header.

Yoav Gallant in 2023
Yoav Gallant

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Glossary

  • Blurbs are one-sentence summaries of the news story.
    • Altblurbs, labelled alt1, alt2, etc., are alternative suggestions to cover the same story.
    • A target article, bolded in text, is the focus of the story. Each blurb must have at least one such article, but you may also link non-target articles.
  • Articles in the Ongoing line describe events getting continuous coverage.
  • The Recent deaths (RD) line includes any living thing whose death was recently announced. Consensus may decide to create a blurb for a recent death.

All articles linked in the ITN template must pass our standards of review. They should be up-to-date, demonstrate relevance via good sourcing and have at least an acceptable quality.

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  • Find the correct section below for the date of the event (not the date nominated). Do not add sections for new dates manually – a bot does that for us each day at midnight (UTC).
  • Create a level 4 header with the article name (==== Your article here ====). Add (RD) or (Ongoing) if appropriate.
Then paste the {{ITN candidate}} template with its parameters and fill them in. The news source should be reliable, support your nomination and be in the article. Write your blurb in simple present tense. Below the template, briefly explain why we should post that event. After that, save your edit. Your nomination is ready!
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The better your article's quality, the better it covers the event and the wider its perceived significance (see WP:ITNSIGNIF for details), the better your chances of getting the blurb posted.

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    • Sometimes, editors ask to retract an already-posted nomination because of a fundamental error or because consensus changed. If you feel the community supports this, remove the item and mark the item as (Pulled).

Voicing an opinion on an item

Format your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the article, and whether it has been updated.

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Suggesting updates

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  • Anything that does not change the intent of the blurb (spelling, grammar, markup issues, updating death tolls etc.) should be discussed at WP:Errors.
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Archives

Archives of posted stories: Wikipedia:In the news/Posted/Archives

October 4

October 4, 2024 (2024-10-04) (Friday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Bosnia and Herzegovina floods

Article: 2024 Bosnia and Herzegovina floods (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least fifteen people die in floods and landslides in Bosnia and Herzegovina. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters, Al-Jazeera, N1Info, Associated Press
Credits:

Article sources count 14 dead in Jablanica and 1 in Fojnica. At least one place was apparently completely buried by debris (Donja Jablanica), so likely many more. The main road between Sarajevo and the Adriatic Sea is closed. Elections are also due this weekend. Daß Wölf 14:00, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support on notability, oppose on quality as the article isn't there yet. 15 confirmed less than 24 hours after the event happened is awfully high, and a village with its own article buried is what I'd considered newsworthy. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 14:18, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Any suggestions on what to improve? There's more info in the sources I used in the article, but I tried to stick with what's almost surely not going to be refuted. The catastrophe entered the news cycle only several hours earlier today. The people who found the dead in Jablanica are with the mountain rescue service, which probably started at sunrise.
There should be more info by tomorrow, but I don't believe any of this is going to be struck out. Jablanica might or might not turn out to be the centre of the catastrophe. I'll add the government info from the N1 article; I only relied on BiH and Croatian sources up till now. Daß Wölf 14:44, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Some suggestions I have for improving the article's quality are to split it into sections and add an infobox. I suggest the article have at least sections for the lede, background, the flooding itself, the aftermath, reactions, and a see also section to similar disasters. As for the infobox, I suggest Template:Infobox flood. If you find any images, either free-to-use or fair use (mutually exclusive), use that as the image parameter. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 14:50, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@GeorgeMemulous: Thanks, I've added an infobox. I'll organise it into sections if I find more time later today (but naturally, anybody is welcome). No objections beside the layout? Daß Wölf 15:39, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 3

October 3, 2024 (2024-10-03) (Thursday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

2024 Pont-Sondé attack

Article: 2024 Pont-Sondé attack (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ An attack on the Haitian town of Pont-Sondé by a gang leaves at least 20 people dead and another 50 injured. (Post)
News source(s): BBC News, AP
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Breaking news around the world now, death and injury toll still only estimated at the moment. Only just started the article so help with expanding most welcome: need background, attack, response and aftermath sections ideally. Abcmaxx (talk) 06:43, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose currently Article is one paragraph, needs major expansion and if that happens I’ll change my vote to support. 27.96.223.193 (talk) 08:06, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose article is a stub. Scuba 14:00, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Stub, and this does “[seem] to be a routine incident”. 64.114 etc 15:24, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Andrew, Scuba and 64. 2604:3D08:9476:BE00:181F:B893:ADD2:6921 (talk)
Also oppose per 2604. 2605:8D80:401:9041:BC0A:88E5:52B2:275 (talk) 15:28, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Typhoon Krathon

Article: Typhoon Krathon (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Typhoon Krathon leaves at least 16 people dead in the Philippines and Taiwan. (Post)
News source(s): Barrons, Inquirer, France 24, AP News
Credits:

The storm death toll has risen to 13, and the articles are in good shape. HurricaneEdgar 19:49, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

British Indian Ocean Territory / Chagos Archipelago sovereignty dispute

Articles: British Indian Ocean Territory (talk · history · tag) and Chagos Archipelago sovereignty dispute (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The United Kingdom agrees to cede sovereignty of the British Indian Ocean Territory to Mauritius (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The United Kingdom agrees to cede sovereignty of the British Indian Ocean Territory to Mauritius
Alternative blurb II: ​ The United Kingdom agrees to cede sovereignty of the British Indian Ocean Territory to Mauritius in exchange for the territory being leased back to the UK for the initial period of 99 years.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article needs updating

CMD (talk) 10:06, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support goodbye British Indian Ocean Territory, one of the few remaining English colonies. Scuba 19:57, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are no English colonies remaining, England as an independent polity was dissolved in 1707. The Indian Ocean Territory is also classified as a territory rather than a colony (the legal status of 'colony' was dissolved in 1982). PrecariousWorlds (talk) 10:38, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The 99-year lease applies to the base on Diego Garcia; the transfer of sovereignty applies to the entire territory, and Mauritius has indicated that they'd support resettling Chagossians on the other islands of the archipelago. And the rest of your comment convinces me that you are not bringing a serious understanding of international relations to bear here. GenevieveDEon (talk) 11:22, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 2

October 2, 2024 (2024-10-02) (Wednesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Sports

RD: Christopher Charles Benninger

Article: Christopher Charles Benninger (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Indian Express
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American-born Indian architect. 240F:7A:6253:1:E8D8:9FD9:8A77:E4D6 (talk) 15:26, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Complete brain mapping of fruit fly

Article: Brain mapping (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Scientists complete a full brain map of the common fruit fly. (Post)
News source(s): nytimes, Guardian, Nature (peer reviewed paper)
Credits:

Article needs updating

Best likely article to include this but currently lacks this update. Masem (t) 17:59, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

*Strong oppose on quality - article hasn't been updated at all since May 2024. A timeline article, or an article about this specific brainmap would be best here, but to my knowledge none exists. Not sure as to notability, but leaning weak support. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 18:03, 3 October 2024 (UTC) Quality issues are more or less resolved, overall support. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 11:51, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I plan to do the update if it is not done in the next 12 to 24 hr. On mobile so can't do an effective job of it until on real keyboard. Masem (t) 18:07, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Expansion is done. I think there are free use images based on the papers, but have to try to figure out best source to work from . --Masem (t) 05:18, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is not eligible for DYK, it is not at GA within the past 7 days, nor expanded 5x, or new enough. Ornithoptera (talk) 20:31, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Susie Berning

Article: Susie Berning (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): USGA.org, ESPN, AP News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American Hall of Fame professional golfer. 240F:7A:6253:1:F8A2:3A7B:85FC:16AA (talk) 02:42, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 1

October 1, 2024 (2024-10-01) (Tuesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Politics and elections

Mark Rutte installed as Secretary General of NATO

 
Article: Mark Rutte (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Former Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte (pictured) is installed as the Secretary General of NATO, succeeding Jens Stoltenberg (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Mark Rutte (pictured) succeeds Jens Stoltenberg as Secretary General of NATO
News source(s): Associated Press
Credits:

Article updated

US port strike

Article: 2024 United States port strike (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Dockworkers strike at East and Gulf Coast ports in the United States (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ 45,000 ILA dockworkers go on strike at East Coast and Gulf Coast ports in the United States.
Alternative blurb II: ​ 45,000 dockworkers of the International Longshoremen's Association strike across United States Gulf and East Coast ports.
Alternative blurb III: ​ The ILA and USMX negotiate to suspend a three-day labour strike at US Gulf and East Coast ports by over 45,000 dockworkers.
News source(s): (initial CNBC report), (post-strike Reuters report)
Credits:

This may impact supply and inflation and is newsworthy. Interstellarity (talk) 21:04, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose - this may not last long. And hasn't exactly been getting anything other than local reporting. What other strikes have we ITN'ed? I'd have thought it would have had to be more of a general strike, or something unusual like the 1981 US Air Traffic Controllers strike, when they simply fired all the strikers. If we ITNed all similar strikes, we'd have a few a month just for France! :) Nfitz (talk) 21:31, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment US East Coast / Gulf ports process close to half of the value of imports coming into the USA, and if I'm not mistaken, the US is the biggest importer on the planet. Also, I believe we blurbed the 2023 SAG-AFTRA strike which was entertainment workers, not people who oversaw trade. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 21:46, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, the 2023 SAG-AFTRA strike was blurbed in July 2023: see the posted blurb page. There was also coincidentally a blurb for a large-scale strike in France earlier that month. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 21:48, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Purely by the numbers, a French strike does not have the same economic impact as one that impacts the entire East and Gulf Coast ports, which as noted process about half of all imports/exports. IF this lasts long (more than a few days), it could be one of the largest strikes in decades. Wqwt (talk) 22:16, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If this lasts long, then it can be reposted. Obviously strikes in bigger countries have bigger local impacts. That doesn't make it ITN. Surely the relative impact of the Canadian rail strike (which shut down virtually the entire rail network) was bigger - but not even nominated. Nfitz (talk) 16:04, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The Canadian rail strike was nominated. It was mainly opposed due to article quality issues & also b/c the strike ended too quickly. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 18:20, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – From the Impact section of the article, we can see the massive effects this strike has. First strike of this sort in nearly fifty years. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 21:44, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There have been many, many, dockworkers strikes. It isn't even the first one this week - Montreal. The only difference is the rest of us don't rush here as fast as we can for local news. Nfitz (talk) 21:48, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait for a while to see if this is resolved very quickly (i.e. under 24 hours), but otherwise strong support. (argument moved below). GeorgeMemulous (talk) 21:52, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment It looks like there isn't going to be a resolution to this anytime soon and the fact this story has dropped off the front pages of many MSM outlets has me suspicious. Blurb it! Kcmastrpc (talk) 14:53, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait/support per Kcmastrpc and George. The Kip (contribs) 00:38, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hold for now, suggest 48h as the threshold for a revisit This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 00:47, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait for at least 48/72 hr to see how this develops and how the wind blows in terms of negotiations to end it. The Impact section should likely be expanded to explain better about how much cargo goes through the eastern ports relative to other ports (known factors), as that will help put the dollar figures mentioned in better perspective. --Masem (t) 01:37, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Significant event that could have an important impact on the US economy and the US election. Tradediatalk 04:09, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Those of you who support are relying on conjecture and forecasts. Here we cannot rely on crystal balls: we must wait for a global and noticeable economic impact. For now it is something sectorial, local and exclusively newsworthy and Wikipedia is not a news portal. _-_Alsor (talk) 09:27, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • An issue with a case like this is that the onset of the strike will be covered by the news, but that when the impacts start to actually occur, it will be a trickle of news and very difficult to set a point where it could be then considered "in the news". We obviously don't want to rush but here's a case where there's multiple high quality sources expressing very likely results should the strike persist, so it makes sense to post at this stage (but as noted above, after being sure the strike isn't likely to resolve quickly). — Masem (t) 12:02, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Soft Support politically relevant, and the only glaring issues is that it needs more content in some sections. Scuba 20:24, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

*Support altblurb: 45,000 ILA dockworkers go on strike at East Coast and Gulf Coast ports in the United States. It's been over 24 hours since the strike commenced and a quick search for "when will the port strike end" gives no indication it will be an affair that will be resolved quickly. CNBC estimates a weeklong strike at East Coast / Gulf ports could cause up to 3.6 billion in economic loss, and compare that to 6.5 billion over a full 105 days for the 2023 SAG-AFTRA strike, which was also blurbed. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 13:27, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Maybe I’m just being pedantic but I think “…dockworkers strike at…” is more correct than “go on strike”. –DMartin 03:49, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Changing my vote to Strong support per Reuters: No negotiations to end the strike are scheduled, and Joe Biden, the US president, is putting his support behind the ILA. This may truly be a long one. Also, as per economic loss, JP Morgan now estimates the strike could cost the nation up to $5 billion USD a day, significantly above the initial CNBC estimate of 3.7 billion in one week. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 13:30, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Altblurb 2 proposed, per @User:dmartin969's suggestion. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 13:33, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Not surprising that he'd put his support behind them; it's a month to go before the general election, and the last thing he wants is to lose the sizable union demographic on failing to take a stance with a story like this. For that reason, I do not believe his support makes the strike inherently more significant. Duly signed, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 13:34, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    My stance is is that this is as opposed to no stance or an anti-union one taken by the president, had this happened last year. The president's stance is a not insignificant argument that this strike will go longer, whether or not it was done for political advantage. Besides, it's not going in the blurb. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 13:38, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait then Support - If this continues over an extended period of time then this will be one of the most significant strikes in the last few years. Already all over the news PrecariousWorlds (talk) 18:58, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support This is very likely to have a significant effect on not just the US economy, but the global economy. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 04:31, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support - This will likely be significant and companies are known for their greed, there is a very high chance that the protests last longer than 3 days and start affecting the global supply chain. SimpleSubCubicGraph (talk) 05:35, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: John Amos

Article: John Amos (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AP News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Amos passed 21 August 2024; it was announced 1 October 2024. Staraction (talk | contribs) 19:42, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose large chunks of article are uncited. Scuba 20:07, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I am shocked to see that they didn't let public know before 40 days passed. BilboBeggins (talk) 21:14, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose orange tagged and many cn tags. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 14:09, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Iran strikes Israel

Article: October 2024 Iranian strikes against Israel (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Iran launches strikes against Israel following Israel's ground invasion of Lebanon. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Iran launches a missile attack against Israel.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Iran launches a missile attack against Israel in retaliation for the assassinations of Hezbollah and Hamas leaders Hassan Nasrallah and Ismail Haniyeh, and of Iranian general Abbas Nilforoushan.
News source(s): WaPo CNN
Credits:

Early, but could have crucial consequences in the conflict - RockinJack18 17:13, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Altblurb1 until Iran's attack is directly connected to the invasion of Lebanon. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 17:17, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I'm sure this was just a spur of the moment thing. Scuba 02:41, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. This was a major, highly newsworthy attack that is important enough to have its own entry. Jerdle (talk) 18:01, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support - I know it's tempting to bundle together the crazy events in the last 2 days but I think this is a notable development on its own. A nuclear-armed state has been directly bombarded by a foreign nation. Tel Aviv and Jerusalem have had hundreds of missile strikes, the entire country is in lockdown, by far the biggest confrontation between Israel and Iran ever. This will have major ramifications for the future of the conflict. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 18:16, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I feel there's significant exaggeration in your statement User:PrecariousWorlds. It's not the "biggest confrontation between Israel and Iran ever". With less than 200 missiles fired, it's not even the biggest confrontation this year - as there was over 300 in April 2024. Also, with less than 200 missiles fired, what sourcing are you using for the "hundreds of missile strikes"? Surely the majority of the missiles were shot down, and didn't strike. Can you provide some kind of back-up for your comment, or edit it? Thanks, Nfitz (talk) 20:37, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
US Major general Pat Ryder says the attack was at least twice as big as in April ( ). Most were intercepted but many struck and caused significant damage in suburbs and in military bases. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 10:55, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Your words are hundreds. Clearly Ryder is full of it, according to Israeli and Iranian claims. Nfitz (talk) 16:02, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait/Oppose until we see if this has wider ramifications. Iran launched missiles at Israel just this year, in April, as a response to Israel killing five members of Iran’s revolutionary guards, but there was no larger effects. The middle east is a powder keg right now, and we should not be posting every salvo that occurs between all these nations. Natg 19 (talk) 18:25, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. a whole country waiting for missiles coming from +1000miles away to fall on its head, in what might spark a (choose your superlative / descriptor) war, is important enough. TaBaZzz (talk) 18:51, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This is a big breaking news live coverage on every major news network around the world. It should be "Alternative blurb" because blurb is original research that is probably wrong. Tradediatalk 19:09, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Covered in ongoing. Kcmastrpc (talk) 19:11, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support altblurb. We shouldn't try to read tea leaves about why Iran did this, nor should be broadcast their explanations. The article will cover all that. What's important to cover in the blurb is what happened. Hundreds of ballistic missiles were fired. Add casualty figures if there were any, as they become available, because we customarily include them. Jehochman Talk 19:33, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • comment reports say most of the missiles were shot down, and the few that landed did little damage with maybe perhaps one casualty. This would make this similar to the previous missile strike this year. It is probably better to try to keep it to one facet of this conflict, being the lebanon invasion. Masem (t) 19:39, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support original blurb unless there is a separate posting for the Lebanon invasion. Two for one. Bitspectator ⛩️ 19:40, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question Is the consensus that this nomination and the below nomination regarding the Israel invasion of Lebanon from September 30th are mutually exclusive? On the one hand, the two events are directly connected and closely related, so it seems logical to group them in a blurb. But on the other hand, this attack by Iran has been in the works for a while - is it an oversimplification to imply causation by saying "After Israel does x, Iran does y"? In any event, support some blurb being posted. The admin who reviews this probably should assess and decide on the nomination for the invasion at the same time. FlipandFlopped ツ 19:45, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support the original blurb here with both launches strikesand Israel's ground invasion of Lebanon to be bolded. We can use one blurb to document two very related events.VR (Please ping on reply) 19:48, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Vice regent Not true, the IRGC said it was for the assassinations Personisinsterest (talk) 22:49, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose covered by ongoing.
Noah, BSBATalk 19:47, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Observation 1: No one (of the general reader public, to a first approximation) notices/sees the "ongoing" items down there. See banner blindness. Might as well just remove the individual entries, just retain the "Ongoing events" link, enlarge text size a bit. Move all the "here are various Major Global Events" stuff to the top of that page. There, frees up space in the already crowded ITN box (this helps in making individual items stand out more). (Wikimedia really needs to hire a professional UI designer. The Right Thing to do would be for them to make suggestions on improvements, and work on things requested by the projects.)
Observation 2: Assume waaaaay less general background & world events knowledge of a general audience (the audience Wikipedia is supposed to be written towards). Lowest common denominator. What % of the total English-as-a-first-language population do you estimate would be able to without looking up anything, correctly answer: Name a country that Hezbollah has something to do with? Which countries are immediately adjacent to Israel? Okay now do total world English speakers. Those things being necessary prerequisite knowledge, to know that for some kind of News related to "Israel" "Iran" "Lebanon", you might want to go looking under "Israel—Hezbollah war". --Slowking Man (talk) 20:19, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
on the ·second point, we don't assume readers are dumb as rocks and there is some degree of WP:CIR for readers, it's why we normally do not link country or major city names unless we are specifically talking about that as a geographic place, because we assume that readers have a decent knowledge of world geography. Masem (t) 20:33, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To be fair, it's hard to keep track of axis of the three H-terrorist groups, and what they currently occupy, for a casual reader. I think a simple "Israeli wars" or "Fighting in the Middle East" might cover it better. Nfitz (talk) 20:40, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have some possibly bad news for you about the median level of geography knowledge of the general public. (Yes that's the right link though the website might look unexpected, they apparently commissioned the survey.) Hmm wonder what kind of results you'd get from a survey of one of the top 5 countries here after the US (the total # of which are in Europe: 0) Slowking Man (talk) 01:59, 2 October 2024 (UTC) (Clarifying addendum: top 5 by total # of en speakers --Slowking Man (talk) 04:36, 2 October 2024 (UTC))[reply]

Thai school bus crash

 
Article: 2024 Lam Luk Ka bus crash (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ 20 school children and 3 other are killed in a bus crash (pictured) in Pathum Thani, Thailand (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ A school bus crashes (pictured) in Pathum Thani, Thailand, leaving 20 school children and 3 other dead
News source(s): Reuters, BBC, Bangkok Post
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Bus carrying school children crashes and catches fire in Thailand, leaving 20 children and 3 other dead. Significant both in term of number of fatalities and that of the fact that most of which are children. PS Feel free to edit the blurb as appropriate. I'm not sure about its writing style. --Chainwit. (talk) 16:11, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Correct me if I'm wrong, but is that image AI generated? See the hose on the right disappearing and the nearly unintelligible Mercedes-Benz written in English. That, or this image was taken at a low resolution and upscaled, keeping the sparse details. Either way, I don't believe this image is a good fit for ITN. Neutral on the blurb, seems to be a relatively major safety incident more than it is as a loss of life, as the article states that over 20,000 traffic fatalities are reported yearly in Thailand. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 16:59, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Image is not AI generated I can confirm. It just happen so to be a screenshot from a low-res live stream on YouTube. And yes, the bus indeed bears a Mercedes logo. -- Chainwit. (talk) 17:05, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose The loss of life is horrific. However we almost never post traffic accidents, even really bad ones. And as GeorgeMemulous noted, Thailand has a bad reputation for traffic safety. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:03, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose a tragic accident, but I don't think this will any sort of long term impact or effect. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:31, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose, tragic but ultimately routine news. For anyone curious, on the livestream, we can see that there's a twist and fold in the hose making it flatter at one angle, and giving the impression that it's disappearing into the ground (and reappearing), especially with the low resolution. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 18:52, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong support Sigh... with respect, I find myself once again needing to correct the record and point out a double standard in relation to a bus crash which occurs outside of the western world. In March of this year, after 2024 Mmamatlakala bus crash was nominated, there was strong opposition with many claiming that we do not post "routine bus crashes" (similar to what is happening here). At that time, I pointed out that, quite contrary to those claiming we never post automobile accidents, we had actually in fact posted both the Carberry highway collision and Humboldt Broncos bus crash with minimal, if any, opposition. To post those accidents from the Western world but not one with more casualties from a non-western country, would leave ITN readers with the impression that white bus crash victims dying is notable where African or Asian bus crashes are not. In the end, the 2024 Mmamatlakala bus crash was posted to ITN. For consistency and to avoid systemic bias, that precedent should be upheld. This is a devastating event for Thailand and it is being widely reported by global news outlets and there is no reason to break from the precedent we set earlier this year. FlipandFlopped ツ 19:59, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I understand your position, but in my opinion, the Carberry bus crash would get an oppose vote from me. Of the four mentioned, I'd say the Humboldt Broncos bus crash and 2024 Mmamatlakala bus crash are the only ones that would deserve a blurb, given the former having important and notable passengers killed and the latter having a very high death toll of one identifiable group. That being said, Oppose the 2024 Thai bus crash until if and when a major new development occurs. If all is said and done, it'll stay oppose. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 21:59, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Honestly, I wouldn't have supported posting any of these bus crashes. We can always point at previous times we did something to call it a precedent, but it means we never get to actually ask ourselves whether we should've actually be doing it to begin with. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 10:51, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Not interesting to our readers. Tradediatalk 20:08, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    this is not a forum to discuss if articles are interesting but rather to post articles that are in the news ( WP:ITNPURPOSE ) so no offense but that argument is not valid (keep your oppose vote though not invalidating that!) Ion.want.uu (talk) 01:06, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose per above. Absolutely tragic, but limited impact and likely to have a limited legacy. The Kip (contribs) 00:44, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support event is significant due to high fatality rate and the circumstance of it being children. Being "not interesting" to readers just because it didn't occur in the Western world shouldn't be any reason to oppose and doesn't diminish its significance and impact. Happily888 (talk) 01:08, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This is the type of event article that at the present time, it is not clear if it has the enduring coverage that we'd expect for event articles, as is the case for most road traffic accidents, even with the large toll. This is the trouble that we have overall with keeping the encyclopedia to covering news topics that are appropriate for an encyclopedia, with a long tail and influence elsewhere, and not for any current event that gets a burst of news coverage (even if worldwide). Maybe there is some long tail of a story here, but its definitely not obvious, and until it is, we really shouldn't even have an article on it (that's more what Wikinews is for). --Masem (t) 04:01, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment A quick update here, investigations found the bus to have been illegally modified with 10 gas tanks fitted into it. It "likely would" cause a stricter reform in term of bus regulation in Thailand, which IMO makes the incidence significant in term of a lasting effect? (Again with another "?") --Chainwit. (talk) 08:31, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose although a tragedy, it doesn't have any impact outside Thailand. Willing to reconsider if this somehow changes bus regulations globally or something major happens due to this. Scuba 16:58, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:ITNCDONT says:

Please do not… Oppose an item just because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. We post a lot of such content, so these comments are generally unproductive.

Blaylockjam10 (talk) 03:38, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
generally unproductive, but not always Scuba 20:23, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per Flipandflopped. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 03:27, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  1. It was a coach rather than a school bus, having been hired for an outing
  2. It was about 50 years old and been extensively modded, being converted from an Isuzu to a Mercedes – don't ask me how
  3. Such incidents are common in Thailand which has a very high rate of traffic accidents – see List of countries by traffic-related death rate
Andrew🐉(talk) 22:06, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Jimmy Carter turns 100

Good faith nom, however consensus to post will not develop. Wishing Mr. Carter joy and many (more) years. -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:57, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Already on MainPage under SA/OTD. --PFHLai (talk) 22:59, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

 
Article: Jimmy Carter (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Former U.S. president Jimmy Carter turns 100, the first U.S. president to do so. (Post)
News source(s): Washington Post, The Hill, USA Today, Al Jazeera, BBC
Credits:
Nominator's comments: A milestone for a record-holder. Carter is the oldest living U.S. president, the longest-lived president in U.S. history, the president who has lived longest after their presidency ended, and the first to reach the age of 100.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Inauguration of Claudia Sheinbaum

(NON-ADMIN CLOSURE)
WP:SNOW, especially given her election was posted when it happened. The Kip (contribs) 17:21, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

 
Article: Claudia Sheinbaum (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Claudia Sheinbaum (pictured) is inaugurated as the 66th President of Mexico, becoming the first woman to ever hold the office. (Post)
News source(s): NPR, NBC
Credits:
Nominator's comments: It's the first time a woman has ever held the presidency in Mexico, also being particularly groundbreaking as the first woman ever elected to be head of state in one of the three major North American countries
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) New Prime Minister of Japan

 
Articles: Shigeru Ishiba (talk · history · tag) and 2024 Liberal Democratic Party (Japan) presidential election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Shigeru Ishiba (pictured) becomes the Prime Minister of Japan, succeeding Fumio Kishida. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Shigeru Ishiba (pictured) becomes the Prime Minister of Japan, after winning the Japanese Liberal Democratic Party leadership election.
Alternative blurb II: ​ After winning the Liberal Democratic Party leadership election, Shigeru Ishiba (pictured) becomes the Prime Minister of Japan, succeeding Fumio Kishida.
Alternative blurb III: ​ Shigeru Ishiba (pictured) succeeds Fumio Kishida as the Prime Minister of Japan, after winning the Liberal Democratic Party leadership election.
News source(s): NHK, Japan Today, Reuters
Credits:

One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Shigeru Ishiba has officially been accepted as the 102nd Prime Minister of Japan by the Diet. However, the article still needs some work done. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 05:15, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That nomination was closed with consensus to wait till inauguration. Abcmaxx (talk) 18:08, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose Election article is good sourcing wise, but the background info is lacking info between 9/11 to 9/27 and that's a huge/crucial part of the election coverage. Ishiba's article also has a few cn tags, given the overall improved state of the article. Support Expanded the LDP article and addressed cn tags on Ishiba's article. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 07:36, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per ITN/R Scuba 16:25, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
amended as ITN/R. Abcmaxx (talk) 18:08, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support because it's a new head of state and ITN/R. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 23:14, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JohnAdams1800, if something is ITN/R, then the only matter to comment on is whether article quality is up to scratch. Schwede66 23:40, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To clarify, he's not head of state but head of government, Japan is a constitutional monarchy, with Naruhito as head of state. AusLondonder (talk) 20:59, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 30

September 30, 2024 (2024-09-30) (Monday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

RD: Ken Page

Article: Ken Page (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): RadioTimes.com, Extra
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Happily888 (talk) 10:59, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support American voice and stage actor of several memorable characters, aged precisely 70. A lot of the Career section might look unsourced, until you follow the Wikilinks. I, for one, don't mind following the Wikilinks. InedibleHulk (talk) 12:21, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose vast swaths of article are uncited, including most of his biography and his entire filmography and discography. Scuba 16:26, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Pete Rose

 
Article: Pete Rose (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [3]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

– Muboshgu (talk) 23:14, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would not say that Rose was the face of baseball. However, I would be willing to support a blurb as he does have the most hits (a record unlikely to be broken). Unfortunately, I am doubtful that a blurb is happening, as he is not a Pele or a Maradona. Natg 19 (talk) 18:31, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not ready: a few CN tags. Once article is of good quality, support RD (major figure in a major sport), but oppose blurb.
-insert valid name here- (talk) 17:38, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb. Not that much famous or transformative. BilboBeggins (talk) 21:07, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is an interesting situation, because Rose is 100% worthy of the HOF based on his baseball accomplishments. But he has been denied entry due to gambling and was "banned" from baseball. Natg 19 (talk) 15:43, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You're really going to use that argument against Rose? Scuba 20:22, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Israel launches a ground operation in Lebanon

Article: 2024 invasion of Lebanon (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Israel launches a ground invasion of Lebanon aimed to clear Hezbollah's border infrastructure. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Israel launches a cross-border ground operation in Lebanon aimed to clear Hezbollah's border infrastructure.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Israel launches a ground invasion of Lebanon as part of the current Israel–Hezbollah conflict
Alternative blurb III: ​ Israel begins a ground operation in Lebanon aimed to clear Hezbollah's border infrastructure.
News source(s): https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/09/30/israel-lebanon-hezbollah-hamas-war-news-gaza/
Credits:

Yet another escalation to Israel's war against Hezbollah. Not sure if "invasion" or "operation" is correct here, so I added both as altblurbs. Article isn't up to ITN levels yet. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 21:21, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This was added to ongoing several days ago, listed as Israel–Hezbollah conflict. Natg 19 (talk) 22:49, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I think its reasonable to say that this invasion/operation is covered by ongoing Hungry403 (talk) 02:12, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No more reasonable than to say the same about Hassan Nasrallah's featured and connected murder; once combined, they can roll off together and whatever happens afterward can remain Ongoing (unless it's bigger, maybe). InedibleHulk (talk) 03:21, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment With respect, "It's covered by ongoing" is not, without more, a useful contribution to this notability discussion. There is no ITNC rule which states that the two are mutually exclusive and there are obviously some circumstances where a blurb for a major development within an ongoing conflict is necessary. IMHO, future discussion should address the actual substance of whether it is a sufficiently notable development to merit a blurb.
As for my personal view, I would wait and then support for accuracy - if the scale of the incursions is as big as initial reports, this is one of the most geopolitical notable events of the decade and marks a major spread of active boots on the ground warfare in the Middle East. The article is not there yet though and that is owing in part to the situation still rapidly evolving/literally under way overnight as we speak. FlipandFlopped ツ 04:06, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - This is basically the biggest development in the conflict since October 7th, even with ongoing this is a major development that is notable enough to be blurbed. The ongoing item should probably be renamed to something like 'Israeli invasion of Lebanon' (maybe rephrase somehow to reflect Hezbollah being the main target rather than Lebanon itself). PrecariousWorlds (talk) 08:27, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom and above. TyphoonAmpil [citation needed] 09:07, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alternative blurb II. We really shouldn't be putting Netanyahu's POV so explicitly on our main page. Netanyahu claims this is a "limited ground operation", similar to how Putin claims the invasion of Ukraine was "a special operation". Let's not take sides and just state the facts.VR (Please ping on reply) 09:56, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can an admin WP:SNOW move the article before it gets posted? I see 22 supports to 1 oppose.VR (Please ping on reply) 09:58, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can someone explain why this isn't covered by the Hezbollah ongoing we added only 4 days ago in a discussion that contemplated this very invasion? Nfitz (talk) 12:17, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    After reflection, this is just too big not to blurb. Support but remove from ongoing until this rolls off and remove the current assassination blurb (but post this at top). Support Alt 2. Sorry User:Kcmastrpc. Nfitz (talk) 12:28, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No need to apologize, you're making good arguments. I would lean towards support if the ground incursion could be confirmed larger in scope, but at the moment it appears to be targeted and limited. If that changes, then I will reconsider my position. Kcmastrpc (talk) 12:46, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It's hard to tell what they are thinking. Aggressors frequently play down their operations for logistical reason. And on the other hand, if Iran does, as the US is claiming they are about to do, and launch ballistic missiles at Israel, will we see yet another blurb? And another when USA fires ballistic missiles at Iran? I keep flipping on this. Nfitz (talk) 16:28, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Per above, the point of ongoing was to capture the evolving headlines that arose out of this conflict, including the well anticipated ground incursion. What's the use of ongoing if we're just going to blurb every major development on this topic? Kcmastrpc (talk) 12:22, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If it wasn't for the lesser development currently still posted on its own, I'd hear you. You're making perfect sense, clearly. But there's a cognitive dissonance (in me), and we all know that's what everyone wants stopped at all costs (in each's own). So what? Pull it? InedibleHulk (talk) 12:38, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, I'd considered that, but I had also opposed the posting of the HQ strike as a standalone blurb. The pager attack seemed novel and what turned out to be the beginning of a very deliberate campaign by Israel, so that seemed warranted. If this develops into a full blown invasion, per above, I could be convinced to support a blurb, but at the moment this is a well-anticipated (albeit sad) development in an ongoing conflict. Kcmastrpc (talk) 12:51, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It's not sad for the children of the profiteers (and their children), at least, who also need to eat. Tolerance and wisdom are complicated, sometimes too winding. I haven't quite !voted either way yet, technically, so I'll let you choose for me and then just try not to think about it. InedibleHulk (talk) 13:00, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I feel that the addition of "ongoing" a few days ago is enough for now Tradediatalk 14:11, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support As per above, I believe this shouldn't just be ongoing since it is such a major escalation. Support for Levivich's suggestion, and push it to the top as well Sharrdx (talk) 14:35, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support and support swapping out Israel-Hezbollah war for this article in ongoing. Scuba 16:28, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait - I'm going to change my mind again. This is moving too quickly, and all the blurbs are likely out of date with Iran's attack. Let's see what happens in the next few hours. Nfitz (talk) 16:40, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I think adding this would be having far too many stories about this conflict in a fortnight, that's what we have ongoing for. Even, if this does end up getting posted then Nasrallah's death news should be removed. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:11, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose It’s a highly notable development, hence a weak oppose rather than a full one, but between the airstrikes (that ended up pulled), death of Nasrallah, this, and now the Iranian missile strikes, we don’t want to overwhelm ITN solely with blurbs relating to this conflict - that’s literally why we added it to ongoing. The Kip (contribs) 17:24, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm satisfied with the combined blurb. The Kip (contribs) 00:39, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose covered by an ongoing entry. LiamKorda 17:49, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Gavin Creel

Article: Gavin Creel (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Thriley (talk) 18:36, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Humberto Ortega

Article: Humberto Ortega (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): France24
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nicaraguan general, brother to President Daniel. Article needs work but we can expect substantial obits to make it easier. Innisfree987 (talk) 18:08, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose vast swaths of the article are uncited. Scuba 16:48, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose majority of the information on the article is unsourced. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:14, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Dikembe Mutombo

Article: Dikembe Mutombo (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [4]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

– Muboshgu (talk) 15:04, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support: Article looks in shape. Death of a legend. Prodrummer619 (talk) 18:31, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support article is in good shape. Scuba 16:47, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support article seems in a good shape. It is ready to be posted. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:15, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ratcliffe-on-Soar Power Station closure

 
Article: Ratcliffe-on-Soar Power Station (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The last coal-fired power station in the United Kingdom, Ratcliffe-on-Soar Power Station, closes after 142 years of country's fossil fuel usage. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The last coal-fired power station in the United Kingdom, Ratcliffe-on-Soar Power Station, closes 142 years since the first use of coal power there during the Industrial Revolution.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Ratcliffe-on-Soar (pictured), the last coal-fired power station in the United Kingdom, closes.
News source(s): CNN, BBC
Credits:

Article updated

Although national level, this looks like a certain milestone with the background of Industrial Revolution that will probably be mentioned in the textbooks on clean energy and history. Brandmeistertalk 13:59, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Added altblurb1 as per suggestion by UndercoverClassicist, as not to imply the UK has moved away from fossil fuels. Abcmaxx (talk) 21:13, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose sadly this is the type of article and story that falls between the gap of ITN and DYK. The news is interesting but on the significance of news, very minor (if this meant the UK was fully on nuclear and renewables, that might be different), and the article is not appropriate for DYK due to age and small update size. I'd love to find a solution for these interesting news blips with good quality articles to be featured, and maybe that is ITN but we'd need to tighten down how these are selected as well. Masem (t) 15:52, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose belongs in a did you know blurb, not ITN. Scuba 15:48, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Oppose I believe that this is an interesting development and important enough to be on ITN, but the part of the article covering the actual closure of the plant is too short. It should be expanded or made into another article entirely. Hungry403 (talk) 02:20, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 
Coal production by country
  • It was Margaret Thatcher's Conservative government that broke the power of the coal miners and pushed for alternatives. I did some work on the government's systems at that time and was impressed at seeing the Payable Order for the regular subsidy for the National Coal Board as it was about £600M. You see deep coal mining was uneconomic then and it's even more so now. Open cast mining is much cheaper and great quantities of it are shovelled up in Australia to be burnt in China's power stations. UK coal production peaked at about 300 million tons a year but that was a hundred years ago. China now consumes over ten times that. It's their coal usage that matters most. Andrew🐉(talk) 22:16, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Kind of puts things in perspective, alas? Martinevans123 (talk) 10:10, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Park Ji-ah

Article: Park Ji-ah (actress, born 1972) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Korea Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

South Korean actress. 240F:7A:6253:1:A4F3:9501:BEE:C932 (talk) 08:24, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose article consists of a single sentence about her divorce, and an uncited filmography. needs major work to be in good enough shape. Scuba 17:06, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Typhoon Krathon

(NON-ADMIN CLOSURE)
Closing per WP:SNOW. I think we all know where this is going. For the third time, tropical storm-related articles should be nominated after the damages caused by the storm becomes clear. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 05:38, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

 
Article: Typhoon Krathon (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Typhoon Krathon (pictured) leaves at least 1 people dead in the Philippines and Taiwan. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Typhoon Krathon (pictured) leaves at least one people dead in the Philippines and Taiwan.
News source(s): [5] [6] [7]
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Category 4-equivalent typhoon, Very strong typhoon on JMA. TyphoonAmpil [citation needed] 04:13, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Wait or close. This nomination suffers from many of the same issues as the first nomination of Hurricane Helene for ITN. Currently, no significant impacts have been caused by Krathon. Though this may change should its forecasted landfall on Taiwan verify, it is inappropriate to nominate this to ITN before the fact. ArkHyena (talk) 04:31, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait for more significant impacts, as per the Hurricane Helene nomination. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 04:50, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

September 29

September 29, 2024 (2024-09-29) (Sunday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

RD: Stoika Milanova

Article: Stoika Milanova (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Strad
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Bulgarian violinist who made an international career after winning some important competitions, playing at the Proms and in Japan, and teaching for years in Venezuela and then Bulgaria. Her father was a violin teacher, her sister a pianist, and her daughter another violinist. Much of the article was there because of the competitions and the Proms. More reviews would be nice. I need to turn to a cellist. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:15, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Richard S. Hamilton

Article: Richard S. Hamilton (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [8]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

One of the most influential geometers of the last 50 years passed away Sep. 29. It was reported on blogs at the time and today has been confirmed by his department. Gumshoe2 (talk) 21:57, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ozzie Virgil Sr.

Article: Ozzie Virgil Sr. (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Detroit Free Press
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

First Domincan-born player in Major League Baseball. —Bagumba (talk) 07:40, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2024 Nepal floods

Article: 2024 Nepal floods (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Flooding in Nepal leaves at least 193 people dead. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Flooding in Nepal leaves at least 193 people dead, including 37 in the nation's capital, Kathmandu
News source(s): Economic Times, Reuters, NPR
Credits:

Article updated

Flooding caused by the heaviest rainfall in the country's recent history, with a death toll that's likely to rise. ForsythiaJo (talk) 02:23, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 Austrian legislative election

Article: 2024 Austrian legislative election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The far-right Freedom Party of Austria wins a plurality of votes in the 2024 Austrian legislative election. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Freedom Party of Austria wins a plurality in the 2024 Austrian legislative election.
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: National election per ITN/R; preliminary results announced. Abcmaxx (talk) 18:00, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 28

September 28, 2024 (2024-09-28) (Saturday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

Sports

RD: Winfield Dunn

Article: Winfield Dunn (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AP News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Former governor of Tennessee. 240F:7A:6253:1:D454:FB13:C677:B659 (talk) 03:28, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Drake Hogestyn

Article: Drake Hogestyn (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [10], [11]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Happily888 (talk) 16:36, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Kris Kristofferson

 
Article: Kris Kristofferson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety, CNN
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

– Muboshgu (talk) 22:41, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 Czech Senate election

 
Article: 2024 Czech Senate election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Opposition party ANO led by Andrej Babiš (pictured) wins the most contested seats during the 2024 Czech Senate election. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In the 2024 Czech Senate election, opposition party ANO (leader Andrej Babiš pictured) wins the most contested seats, while the governing Spolu alliance maintains its majority.
News source(s): AP politico
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: National election per ITN/R, also the results have caused several ministers in the government to resign. Scuba 15:46, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose Is the blurb even correct? While ANO did do better than at any other Senate election and was the single party that gained most seats, it only won 8 seats, while the SPOLU coalition won 15 (according to the article). SPOLU also still has the majority in the Senate, given only one third of the seats were up for election. Also, not sure we should post the elections results for an upper chamber with only quite limited powers. Khuft (talk) 18:01, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, the blurbs are misleading. Per OPs AP source, the ruling coalition is still has majority in the senate, the blurbs implies otherwise. Edit: Comment withdrawn as blurbs have changed significantly since posting. 31.44.224.222 (talk) 20:54, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality as the article is far too short. Propose ALT1 as well - sums things up a bit clearer. The Kip (contribs) 03:42, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I don't think we typically tend to cover upper house elections that are on the off-year from the lower house ones, and to my understanding I don't believe it has resulted in a change of government either. Ornithoptera (talk) 09:47, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - the Czech Senate (like most upper houses) is relatively powerless. Also, this for only 1/3 of the seats. It's the lower-house election that is of note in this country. Nfitz (talk) 16:23, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Brisbane Lions win the 2024 AFL Grand Final

Article: 2024 AFL Grand Final (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In the Australian Football League, the Brisbane Lions win the 2024 AFL Grand Final after defeating the Sydney Swans by 60 points for their first premiership win since 2003. (Post)
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

(Posted) 2024 Hezbollah headquarters strike

 
Article: Assassination of Hassan Nasrallah (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Leader of Hezbollah Hassan Nasrallah (pictured) is killed following airstrikes in Beirut. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Secretary-General of Hezbollah Hassan Nasrallah (pictured) is assassinated in an Israeli airstrike in Dahieh, Lebanon.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Secretary-General of Hezbollah Hassan Nasrallah (pictured) is murdered together with his underage daughter by an Israeli airstrike in Dahieh, Lebanon.
News source(s): BBC, Al Jazeera, AP
Credits:

If confirmed, this will be a massive escalation regarding the situation in the Middle East. Ornithoptera (talk) 09:14, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This will take time to clarify what happened, so I would wait. Also, there is a disputed tag on the article. Tone 09:18, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support - very notable that my father woke me up cus of it Abo Yemen✉ 12:23, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

*Wait until confirmed by local or other independent sources. Prodrummer619 (talk) 10:34, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yikes to the original oppose, even bigger yikes for the rationale and subsequent comments. AusLondonder (talk) 14:46, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
However, the article's first sentence states " the secretary-general of Hezbollah, was assassinated . . ."Light show (talk) 21:33, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sure that's the case. Whichever is not properly reflecting the RS ought to be edited to bring it into alignment. 'Fraid I can't help ya there, because it's one of those articles which is why eg it is under WP:GS. I don't go near 'em, since (even w/stuff like sanctions) they are toxic firepits of people there to engage in combat in their outside-WP disputes on WP (just, for the more careful, politely so they don't wind up at the business end of Arbcom enforcement actions) as another battleground, not to work on neutral encyclopedia articles. Not the sort of thing I like to engage myself in as an uncompensated volunteer hobby. (Understand that this being true for many people is the ultimate cause of "why there are these Issues™ with content in Contentious Topic Areas" in the first place.) Slowking Man (talk) 00:09, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hi, don't know how to request this in a formal way but if someone is able to give me ITN recognition for the nomination, that would be appreciated! Ornithoptera (talk) 18:13, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Ornithoptera done! The Kip (contribs) 18:15, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you The Kip! Apologies, I know this definitely was not the right venue to ask but I wasn't sure where else to do so. If anyone does know what is the best way to do so, please let me know! Ornithoptera (talk) 18:17, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Please don't embolden the critics of ITN, this is very much "in the news" on a global basis, is clearly highly significant and we have a reasonable and improving article to link to. AusLondonder (talk) 18:18, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting stating what ought to be obvious: WP simply goes with what "the sources" are saying. "Killed/assassinated" is obviously the correct wording to use: whichever the preponderance of RS are using. (Frankly I would personally prefer a simple bright-line policy of always using "dies/is killed" for all deaths period no exceptions. "X died" is a simple objective neutral statement about facts of observable verifiable testable external physical reality: Is X dead, or not? Do they currently have ongoing cardiopulmonary function, Y/N? Everything else is already delving head-first into the realm of subjectivity and opinions, which are things intrinsically not falsifiable, not ever "true/false" or "correct/not correct". Hence these are things people can and do argue and disagree with others about, endlessly, a pastime they need to take to someplace other than WP appropriate to such matters. "Assassination", at least, has the generally-accepted meaning "an intentional killing done with political motives/intent".) --Slowking Man (talk) 20:13, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull Currently the page is NPOV and V orange tagged. Kcmastrpc (talk) 21:27, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The solution, besides just "never post Contentious Topics on the main page at all period", which I suspect might not find a consensus in favor of doing, is probably a policy of automatically full-protecting any such article while it is on main, and forking a /Draft subpage where people can work on a newer version. After its time on the main page is through, the draft can be merged back to the article. (Any major Issues identified in the fullprot version can be handled by edit request, something already a part of the protection policy.) There would be no showstopper problems with doing this; Mediawiki makes it fairly simple. WP:There is no deadline, and for topics touched upon by BLP it's more important to "get it right the first time". Priority #1 is to serve readers. --Slowking Man (talk) 14:03, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep for now This is odd, almost makes me feel someone purposefully trying to add orange tags to remove it from the main page. Either way, this is literally THE in the news story. I havent seen a story so in the news since the start of the russian invasion of the ukraine. keep it up! Kasperquickly (talk) 15:56, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I've lost count on how many times the tags have been reintroduced at this point. WP:ARBPIA is an incredibly contentious topic area and it's not uncommon for articles in this space to find themselves orange tagged. I would presume admins would know this and be wary of featuring articles on the front page that are so heavily sanctioned. I concur with @Slowking Man that caution should be exercised in this area and full protection be introduced for the duration the article is features on the main page. Kcmastrpc (talk) 20:29, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fully agree with full protection of all ARBPIA articles that go on the main page. VR (Please ping on reply) 01:44, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Such articles are commonly dominated by partisans who try to spin them to their side. If you protect such a page then you freeze it with a particular partisan POV. This is a significant quality issue as WP:NPOV is a core policy. Such topics are best left to the high-level overview of the Ongoing entries. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:53, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I have no strong feelings on the idea, but policy already allows for reversion of a fullprot article to an earlier version without "problematic" content, as well as for admins to copy over to the prot version changes which gain consensus on the talk page. The intent is to halt edit warring and force people to discuss, not to "prefer" whichever version "wins" and manages to "make it in" right before the page is protected. Slowking Man (talk) 15:44, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is the second time I check the article in order to fix whatever caused the orange tag so that the article can stay in the main page, only to find out that there was nothing to fix. In the talk page they said that the article had to mention that Hezbola says that they would cease the hostilities if Israel stops its operations at Gaza, but the article already says that. Cambalachero (talk) 12:44, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 27

September 27, 2024 (2024-09-27) (Friday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

(Posted) RD: Abbas Nilforoushan

Article: Abbas Nilforoushan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.timesofisrael.com/iran-vows-revenge-for-top-irgc-officer-killed-in-beirut-strike-that-took-out-nasrallah/
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Iranian brigadier general of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. 18:38, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Support a little short, but properly cited. Scuba 16:45, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Fabián Caballero

Article: Fabián Caballero (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Mirror
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Argentine-Paraguayan professional footballer.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 11:09, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Pappammal

Article: Pappammal (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Times of India
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Indian organic farmer. Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 04:40, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted: first RD, then blurb) Blurb/RD: Maggie Smith

 
Article: Maggie Smith (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  British actress Maggie Smith (pictured) dies at age of 89. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Famous actress. Household name and winner of the Triple Crown of Acting. Davey2116 (talk) 13:34, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support blurb She was an very famous actress and had some really famous iconic roles throughout her career and has won two Oscars. LiamKorda 14:31, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Now Supporting RD Article is much improved. Neutral on a blurb. She was certainly an important figure, but we have been routinely declining to blurb other giants in the field. "One can't go to pieces at the death of every foreigner. We'd all be in a constant state of collapse whenever we opened a newspaper." Lady Violet, Dowager Countess of Grantham -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:30, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Very Strong Support Blurb I believe this worldwide famous actor should be featured. She has been the star of many films including both Downton Abbeys and has captured the hearts of many, such a shame we have lost such an icon of the film industry.
The photo does need to be updated on the Wikipedia page, but I strongly support this blurb. 2H-Writer (talk) 15:27, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The photo is from the period when she won her first Oscar. That's the period where she became most celebrated. We don't need to bow to populism - she was more than Harry Potter and Downton; her damehood, for example, preceded those roles. Humbledaisy (talk) 15:47, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Blurb The article is still being edited, and she doesn't have enough due weight to merit a blurb. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 15:59, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support RD, oppose blurb per conversations around James Earl Jones and other recent actors. Scuba 18:53, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that James Earl Jones could and should have been blurbed but wasn't won't have influence the decision to blurb another person. BilboBeggins (talk) 19:03, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Bummer, but if the consensus is Jones didn't deserve a blurb, than Smith doesn't deserve one either. Scuba 19:22, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
IMO as an actress and in achievements, Smith was several rungs above Jones. Cart (talk) 20:12, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To prove my point, Swedish radio is just doing a tribute program to Smith, Jones wasn't even mentioned on the news. Cart (talk) 20:35, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure that the consensus was that James Earl Jones didn't deserve one - the discussion timed out, but there was a majority in favour. The problem is that every time a non-political figure is nominated for a blurb, there's a hard core of RD regulars who have their own (not necessarily matching) criteria that they repeatedly assert are the death-blurb criteria, and they make every discussion of this kind into a battleground to try and win once and for all. I'm heartily sick of it. We have too few stories reaching ITN as it is, and this just makes these kinds of nominations a bitter business to have to deal with. GenevieveDEon (talk) 07:54, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb. Won Academy Award two times, was in spotlight for around sixty years. A larger than life personality that was a household name and worldwide known, so the information about her death will be useful to many people. BilboBeggins (talk) 19:06, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • RD only - Many notable scientists are mentioned in RD only, so famous actors should fall in the same ballpark. -Abhishikt (talk) 19:20, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support for RD. Definitely a legendary actor of long experience and achievements - Triple Crown actors are far from common. Article looks thoroughly sourced now. I am not certain if she does or does not merit a blurb, for my part. Challenger l (talk) 19:30, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb She is an actress at the top of her field, with a career spanning decades (including recent award-winning roles), who has a rare "triple crown" of victories. If she is not nominated, then we may as well just set the precedent that no blurbs for actors or actress who die of natural causes ought be posted because this is as notable as you can get. FlipandFlopped ツ 19:34, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, absolutely and finally, we may as well just set the precedent. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:43, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think it would be a bad thing if we decided that politicians' lives deserve special mention and leading cultural figures do not. GenevieveDEon (talk) 07:54, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This goes for all purely tributary RDs, with lives general audiences remember but deaths featuring age. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:55, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Certainly consistent and a view I can see myself being a little sympathetic to. All I want is some objective criteria/on, to avoid recurring angels, pin, etc debates revolving around subjective things like "major and influential". (I would in the event such a thing were adopted suggest making RD a bit more visible/"standing out". Might need to tweak the main page layout a little. Also a "temporarily 'pinning' high-traffic RDs so they don't get pushed off quickly" thing would be a good idea, to better serve readers.) Slowking Man (talk) 00:42, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That creates a bias towards popular topics, which we should absolutely not be doing, since that will weigh far more in favor of Western/English ones. Masem (t) 00:55, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The die in that regard was cast the moment the English Wikipedia decided to have an "In the news" section on the "front page" (so to speak), since that, naturally, is going to reflect most closely what is currently "in the English-language news". Unless the project and WMF bent over backwards to attract lots of polyglot en-speakers to enwp, and, if anything more importantly, to keep them engaged and willingly contributing to the project. Or, something like retaining a paid bureau of professional translators for WP to call upon to translate content into English. Kind of hard to write things reliably about things covered mostly by sources you can't understand. (For ex. serious historians (meaning people whose job titles are things like "Professor of X History", not people making "pop history" Content™) basically must learn at least some of the languages relevant to their chosen field(s) of study, eg historians of the ancient Mediterranean world will as a matter of course pick up at the least some ancient Latin and Greek.)
    The Old Grey Lady and the Beeb aren't going to focus some of their resources on greater coverage of not-majority English-as-first-lang parts of the world because some people at Wikipedia asked them to very politely, I'm afraid. The only other way, under WP's control, to cut through that Gordian knot (mixing some metaphors tonight) is to deep-six the ITN section altogether. Slowking Man (talk) 01:21, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    While it is true the news (and topics at ITN) will weigh more heavily on Western media, we absolutely do not need to perpetuate that bias that by the suggestion that we keep a highly-viewed/popular article in the ITN box longer than other items (the "temporarily pinning" idea). That's a facet we absolutely can control to minimize our own biases. Masem (t) 02:30, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Is it what readers want, Y/N? Asking rhetorically as I certainly don't know myself. That's the thing that matters most. (I would be thrilled with a well-designed survey of a representative sample of main page visitors (logged-in or not) about things of this nature. Sounds like something the WMF could stand to devote some resources to! I believe there have in fact been at least a couple of such things in the past about certain topics?) Slowking Man (talk) 03:27, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If we go by what readers want, we'd basically be writing a popular culture TVTropes wiki, and that's how WP was when it was first created but has moved well beyond that. We know that some topics will draw more interest, but our goal being on the main page is to feature a wide range of topics including those people do not know anything about as well as the familiar. We should absolutely not give excessive weight to popular topics, which is why we routinely ignore those !votes that claim we should be driving ITN via pageviews. Masem (t) 03:54, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Additional comment and with regards to everyone complaining about the inconsistency if she is posted but not James Earl Jones... I completely agree. JEJ should have been posted, and that was a bad decision on the community's part. But two wrongs a right does not make. FlipandFlopped ツ 19:43, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD, neutral on blurb. Obviously a very important figure. -insert valid name here- (talk) 20:19, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb - greatly awarded and prolific actor, with an exceptionally long career. I'm not sure saying she isn't a famous politician, or what-aboutims mean much. Nfitz (talk) 20:29, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ready for RD, based on when I previously commented, the only sourcing issue I see is confirming a notable movie co-starring credit which is trivial to fix. All CNs have been addressed. --Masem (t) 20:34, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posting as RD; blurb discussion ongoing (give me a few minutes to post it correctly; it's been a minute). Among the half dozen people who bothered to mention article quality (instead of the RD/blurb worthiness feud), there's a consensus the article is ready now. The article seems solid, and a lot of readers will be interested in seeing it now, rather than in 3 days when the RD/blurb issue is done. So I'm posting as an RD, and the discussion about a blurb can continue. --Floquenbeam (talk) 21:40, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Very strong support blurb. She has been an iconic, top-notch actress (especially in movies) for decades who won dozens of awards (multiple times), and has worked for many famous pop culture works. Blurb now. 64.114 etc 21:56, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
VS Support per 64.114 etc and others. 2605:8D80:325:5E2:C5D1:A387:2E8:5DFD (talk) 22:18, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also a very strong support. The reviews are reasonable. 2604:3D08:9476:BE00:6C6D:3321:DFBB:31D2 (talk) 22:51, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • For those pushing for a blurb, you would strongly help your case by using the numerous obits that have come out to show how much of an impact or legacy she has in her field. There's a rather large number of these (compared even to JEJ) so there's fair game for a blurb, but let's please have stronger evidence based (via sources) that shows this is what reliable sources also state, rather than making original research claims here. --Masem (t) 23:27, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is a reasonable request. I'd much rather this was both the tone and the direction in these kinds of discussions. GenevieveDEon (talk) 07:54, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I most assuredly do not like Harry Potter. GenevieveDEon (talk) 07:54, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Never cared for HP, loathe JKR. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 23:07, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb - not transformative, not in the upper echelon of famous and important actors. Can easily tell the story of film/television without her. Not especially well-known. I don't think a minor role in one of the most successful franchises of all time should mean very much. 2601:5C2:0:A6F0:5D8A:2DAE:87E0:4CF7 (talk) 03:01, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just realized I wasn't logged in - replying for attribution purposes. LocoTacoFever (talk) 03:04, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
'Not especially well-known' - this claim, in particular, is in the teeth of the evidence. GenevieveDEon (talk) 07:54, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Again, 'either a serving head of state or government, or died in a notable manner' is not and never has been the unique criterion for these things, and your repeated thumping on it does not make it so. GenevieveDEon (talk) 07:54, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And neither have popularity. 31.44.224.222 (talk) 15:08, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Page views show what has been read, the purpose of ITN is direct people to things we would like them to read. The causal connection runs the wrong way. Please for the love of all that's holy stop citing page views as evidence. GenevieveDEon (talk) 07:54, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The page views show the level of interest and coverage. But not everyone follows the news closely and so ITN helps those who may have missed the announcement. And another goal is to "to emphasize Wikipedia as a dynamic resource". This is best done by posting blurbs frequently rather having a static, stale selection. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:05, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Aside from the fact her name is already on the front page, with a handy link, over 2 million people found there was to the article without the need for a blurb. I'm not sure people will have missed the news elsewhere and only be able to see it if it's blurbed here... - SchroCat (talk) 09:24, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not meaning this in any hostile kind of way, but I sincerely don't get where in WP:ITNPURPOSE the things we would like them to read stuff follows from. The closest-seeming part to me is point 3: To point readers to subjects they might not have been looking for but nonetheless may interest them. But that only talks about things we think they may take interest in, upon seeing them presented at ITN. (Which already is kind of a problematic matter of us trying to predict readers' desires and interests, since most aren't freely volunteering that information without even being asked.) Also I will note that bullet point #1 is about helping main page visitors get quickly to things "in the news" they might be searching for (I don't know whether this is intended to reflect any kind of "ranking").
A principle always important to note regarding statistics (such as page views) is they only tell you what they measure, not what they don't. It may be that page view figure represents just about everyone in the world who visits enwp semi-regularly and has interest in reading an article about X. It's also possible a bunch more people exist who would be interested if it were more prominently highlighted. You can't know either way based upon that stat. (Somewhat relatedly: "[A] dissatisfied customer does not complain: he just switches." Oliver Beckwith (1947), an adage often referenced by W. Edwards Deming.) Slowking Man (talk) 02:07, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A good source showing illustrious career: "Maggie herself was determined to remind her audience – and to reassure herself – that she had played opposite Olivier, played Hedda Gabler for Ingmar Bergman, made films with John Ford, George Cukor, Joe Mankiewicz"[13] BilboBeggins (talk) 08:32, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Blurb - I saw a bit of discussion about James Earl Jones earlier in this nomination, asking why he wasn't blurbed but the consensus is leaning towards Maggie Smith getting one. I was one of those people who argued against James Earl Jones being blurbed and I stand by it; JEJ was a popular and highly-esteemed actor but I would argue Smith was a few rungs above him; like JEJ, she was widely known for roles in popular franchises but she was more closely associated with those roles than he was by virtue of them not being voice parts. I am not suggesting voice acting is less important than acting but, from a recognition angle, a lot of people around the world wouldn't recognise James Earl Jones as the actor who voiced Darth Vader and I would suggest many more would be able to identify Maggie Smith as McGonagall and Crawley. Being a recognisable face from something people can stream on Netflix only gets you so far, of course. What is more important is that Smith was one of the very most celebrated and decorated actors of her generation. You only need to look at her lede - two acting Oscars, five BAFTAs, four Emmys, three Golden Globes, a Tony, the BFI fellowship and the Bafta fellowship. She was awarded a CBE in 1970, a higher order than the OBE Judi Dench received that same year, and became a dame way back in 1990. She was consistently high-profile whether working in film, television or the theatre. She qualifies from all directions, in my opinion. When it comes to living actors born in the first half of the 1930s, there aren't many others who I think would qualify - maybe Clint Eastwood, Michael Caine, Judi Dench, Sophia Loren and that's yer lot. Humbledaisy (talk) 13:11, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Good exposition, thanks. It’s been 24 hours, and in my view consensus is clearly in favor of a blurb. Let’s have an admin step up and do the right thing. Jusdafax (talk) 14:35, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Vote Tally By my count, the current tally is 28 votes in support to 16 opposed (just a few votes shy of a 2:1 ratio). I don't think this ratio is likely to significantly change, so a passing admin should probably assess and make a decision. FlipandFlopped ツ 16:53, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Consensus is not vote count driven, it is strength of the arguments. Masem (t) 17:06, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The best argument for giving Smith a blurb, is to just read the article where all of her accomplishments during an unusually long career are heaped for all to see. We are into day two of this, and this is still front page stuff. [14] [15] [16]. I also agree with Andrew's comment that it's about high time we give another woman an RD blurb. The irony of writing this while reading the top banner on this page (Celebrate Women's Voices: Join the #SheSaid Campaign!) is not lost on me. Cart (talk) 18:20, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Accomplishments are nice, but that doesn't necessarily equate to being the type of major/great figure in their field; anyone with a long career in entertainment likely will have a similar list of awards. I've commented above that obits and other sources since her death have far more beyond simple accomplishments to flesh a much stronger legacy section to make the blurb case far more sensible since we are giving the reader context for why we are featuring her death. Masem (t) 00:53, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Exactly my thoughts. I'm finding it really disappointing that there are several people in this discussion who are completely ignoring WP:OTHERSTUFF and opposing purely on the fact that someone else wasn't blurbed. This sort of argument should IMO be considered very weak. 80.42.195.111 (talk) 19:12, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That's the stupidest thing ever, why even bother to vote if the votes don't count? Scuba 21:00, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No one said "votes don't count", but consensus is not determined by vote count. This is one of Wikipedia's tenets, and is further clarified at WP:NHC Consensus is not determined by counting heads or counting votes, nor is it determined by the closer's own views about what action or outcome is most appropriate. The closer is there to judge the consensus of the community, after discarding irrelevant arguments. Natg 19 (talk) 21:14, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb per above. Yes, I'm still salty JEJ wasn't posted, but let's not make that mistake again for someone who very clearly meets the bar. The Kip (contribs) 18:13, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There was no reason for a blurb on JEJ. Maggie Smith is significantly better known and more so around the world. Still, I'm neutral on a blurb, I wonder if we're going to blurb Tom Cruise, Tom Hanks, Merryl Streep, Dustin Hoffman, Clint Eastwood etc.
    I again remind everyone that Alain Delon didn't get an RD. This is clear Anglo Saxon imperialism Varoon2542 (talk) 19:36, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Smith has a triple handicap when it comes to ITN, wasn't from the US, she's a woman and she's not famous for any sports achievement. Cart (talk) 19:40, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    James Earl Jones was a male American actor who had a similar amount of notability as Smith & he wasn’t blurbed. Most people who’ve been blurbed in 2024 haven’t been Americans. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 20:23, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Don't forget, never held high natl. elective office/otherwise was a head of state (eg monarch). (As far as I know? Free fanfic idea for the taking there!) Slowking Man (talk) 00:47, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Being a woman has never been a handicap for notability when it comes to actresses Varoon2542 (talk) 15:12, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Delon wasn’t blurbed due to article quality issues. I’d note that Jean-Luc Godard did get a death blurb. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 20:10, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Alain Delon didn't got RD because his article was a mess, filed with unsourced and unnecessary statements. That wasn't due to any "Anglo Saxon imperialism". ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 05:15, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb. A wonderful actress, but she didn't transform the profession. Jheald (talk) 19:44, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb A high profile actress. ArionStar (talk) 22:16, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb: I am not against non-politicians getting blurbed, but I just don't feel Maggie Smith has had the same impact in the world of acting/entertainment as other actors who have died recently.  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 03:59, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Admins willing to post ITN: Could someone come to a decision whether to blurb or not? BangJan1999 04:15, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    For those who want the article to be posted I would rather suggest adding more to legacy section, using obits. The Guardian, for instance, provided much cover, but there are also Variety articles. BilboBeggins (talk) 07:53, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb—A true icon. Kurtis (talk) 11:37, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb - If we had as our RD criteria: transformative of our hearts and minds (and therefore a major figure in their field), then Maggie Smith at the very least should have an RD photo posted here. My autistic son (age 29) had tears in his eyes when he told me about her death as he was frantically texting his mom. That’s how we know that someone deserves a blurb. Trauma Novitiate (talk) 12:05, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not trying to be mean but I hope you do realise that what brings tears to the eyes of your son is pretty much irrelevent here. Indians cry when a famous actor dies but he or she doesn't usually get a blurb or even an RD. There's a world outside your own cultural zone Varoon2542 (talk) 16:55, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb – The "Legacy" subsection of her article is only a list of awards and accolades, no in-depth analysis of how transformative her work allegedly was. Though Smith may have achieved a higher amount of awards than others, collecting awards is something most high-profile actors/actresses achieve. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 15:40, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It would help if editors !voting support could provide sources that show that she was transformative. See also Masem's comments above. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 15:48, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment - I don’t disagree with your assessment. But the protocol for assessment and approval of an RD/Blurb is flawed. Just look at Fredric Jameson’s RD below before it goes off our board. It was only approved a few hours ago. It’s been Ready (in my opinion) for at least 24 hours. But now we’ve run out of time for a meaningful Blurb discussion. I did not realize Fredric Jameson was a leading and transformative figure in his field until I first edited his page 2 days ago. I think it’s fairly obvious that Jameson should’ve been blurbed based on the criteria you and Masem have pointed out. Unfortunately, I don’t really believe Jameson would’ve had a Blurb approved in any case, whether we had a discussion or not. Did anyone else here read his BLP, and realize he was a transformative figure in his field? I doubt it because it was never mentioned. Not to be cynical here. It’s just the reality here in this forum. For an RD to receive serious Blurb consideration, two things must happen: (1) the person nominated must be well-known to the general public (Jameson is not known to the general public and that explains why his RD was all but ignored), and (2) they must be a leading and transformative figure in their own field, and the BLP article must document that with solid/approved sources, citations, and references. That’s why we need to have a compromise and at the very least approve the RD/photo option which, by-the-way, had solid support on our Talk Page this past summer (check the archives for June, July, and August!: 3 months of discussion before it went stale). Jameson should have his photo posted here, at the very least. Just as Maggie Smith should have her photo posted here, too. Nice work you all, I see a picture was posted. Very savvy! - Trauma Novitiate (talk) 20:08, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Very strong support blurb, a very iconic actress, who has worked for franchises such as Harry Potter, etc. Article is also good to go. 70.70.59.204 (talk) 19:25, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb. Largely agree with Masem. For those citing her work in Harry Potter, is she the protagonist? or anywhere close to that? IIRC, there are ~10 more important characters. The rest of her career is noteworthy too, but I'm not seeing an impact anywhere. I've said before and I'll say again that actors rarely influence other actors' or directors' styles. With JEJ, there's his influence as a trailblazing black actor, but Smith's legacy section is, as has been previously mentioned, just awards. Sincerely, Dilettante 20:07, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted (or at least, I'm about to post this). I've had a read of the entire discussion and weighed votes by their strengths of argument. Poorly argued cases for and against a blurb are about equal. Apart from a handful of neutral votes, the remaining votes for a blurb far outweigh the opposers. The strongest oppose argument, referred to a number of times, is that the legacy section is merely a list of awards and accolades, but does not show her impact on the acting profession. Editors seem to argue that such impacts exist, it's just not documented in the article. Be that as it may, there is rough consensus to post a blurb. Schwede66 22:34, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you. Also, aren't we publishing the news in order of posting? BilboBeggins (talk) 08:47, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Kinda feel her news blurb should be atop Hurricane Helene IMO. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 12:19, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No, it should be below. The impact of Hurricane Helene is still being felt. Duly signed, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 15:41, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    BilboBeggins, if you want to find out in which order we post things at ITN, you can read up about it at the administrator instructions. Schwede66 20:36, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Clive Everton

Article: Clive Everton (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Yahoo Sports ,Daily Express, The Guardian, BBC, World Snooker Tour
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Professional snooker and English billiards player.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 10:03, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(On hold until October 1) Shigeru Ishiba / 2024 Liberal Democratic Party (Japan) presidential election

(NON-ADMIN CLOSURE)
Clear consensus to wait until October 1, when Ishiba formally assumes office as PM. The Kip (contribs) 23:30, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

 
Articles: Shigeru Ishiba (talk · history · tag) and 2024 Liberal Democratic Party (Japan) presidential election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Shigeru Ishiba (pictured) wins the Japanese Liberal Democratic Party leadership election and will succeed Fumio Kishida as Prime Minister of Japan. (Post)
Credits:

One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
While this is a party election and Ishiba has not yet taken office, it is the politically significant election and is in the news now. Sandstein 09:07, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just a comment that he is expected to take office in four days, so it could be an option to just wait until he is officially Prime Minister. Basil the Bat Lord (talk) 10:16, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's what I was thinking about. Don't we normally blurb things like this once they take office? Plus Ishiba's Personal life section is unsourced so we could take the time until he assumes office to polish up his article. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 10:39, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until he is officially PM. Scuba 19:07, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support as soon as he takes office as Prime Minister. 64.114 etc 21:58, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until he becomes PM, then very strong support. 2604:3D08:9476:BE00:6C6D:3321:DFBB:31D2 (talk) 22:51, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait. Shigeru Ishiba has not become Prime Minister yet. When he is inaugurated come October 1st, I will also support very strongly. 2605:8D80:325:5E2:4D24:45D6:9490:51F3 (talk) 23:02, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Sayuri

Article: Sayuri (musician) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Anime News Network
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Japanese Singer-Songwriter, known for singing the ED themes for several animes notably My Hero Academia and Lycoris Recoil. Death occured on September 20 but news was only released publicly today. Tofusaurus (talk) 06:40, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

Nominators often include links to external websites and other references in discussions on this page. It is usually best to provide such links using the inline URL syntax [http://example.com] rather than using <ref></ref> tags, because that keeps all the relevant information in the same place as the nomination without having to jump to this section, and facilitates the archiving process.

For the times when <ref></ref> tags are being used, here are their contents:

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