Talk:Insight Meditation Society

Fact check, verify source.

I've added a tag to the following statement:

The Retreat Center is one of the two largest vipassana centers in the United States.

...with the given footnote being

Fronsdal (1988). Jack Kornfield's "Spirit Rock" is the other large vipassana center.

This footnote is not complete enough to allow for verification of the source. The reason I feel this is dubious is because SN Goenka's organization operates 14 centers in the US, and while not a single center, merits inclusion. Also, there is Bhante Henepola Gunaratana's Bhavana Society] in WV. Both centers differ from IMS and Spirit Rock in that they do not charge for retreats. -- Bill Huston ^(talk) 19:19, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

• I removed the reference since there doesn't seem to be much to support it. I also removed the new citation of the "Dummies" book; I would like to see some consensus on this source before it's included because so far as I can tell the only mention of Insight is as an address listing, which only establishes an address.--otherlleft 04:09, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

I have to agree with the above notes, plus all Buddhists engage in Vispashyana, or vipassana, so it is wrong to make this seem as if it is something exclusive to IMS. There are many larger meditation centers in the US. Dharma Realm University operates a much larger meditation center, engaged in vipassana, for just one example. There are larger centers in Hawaii, California, Colorado, and NY that I know of. The claim by IMS is utterly insupportbale. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.23.245.97 (talk) 17:04, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

IMS approach and philosophy

What I think this entry lacks - and which may lead some editors to think it should be deleted - is an account of the position IMS occupies within modern Buddhism. As I understand it, IMS is a US offshoot of what might reasonably be called the "Theravada revival" inspired by Ajahn Chah, which also took root in the UK. This is a really important development: seeking to draw from Buddhism life-changing inspirations in personal life. It probably only requires a couple of paragraphs to keep everyone happy. Bluehotel (talk) 11:10, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Deleted: one misleading and derogatory statement about Mahayaana Buddhism. We should not engagge in slander or partisanship.

More to the point, this article lacks any statement of actual credentials, lineage history, or in other words, from whom and where Kornfield, Salzman, or Goldstein received authority to teach Buddhism. I know they have been questioned on this a number of times, and I also know they have refused to supply an answer. Without authorization, teaching the dharma is utter heresy.

The other good reason the article should be deleted is that is informs on nothing and functions only as a self-interested advertisement.

Anonymous edit from Feb 2011 (above) is an example of dogma ("utter heresy", not mere heresy). Talk comments should not be deleted, because that is a censorship of discussion -- deletions should be reserved for the Article itself, which requires NPOV. FYI, the term Mahayana is itself a "self-interested advertisement" literally meaning "great path" analogous to someone saying "I am the greatest."

As for informing, IMS has been around for nearly half a century, so it is notable enough as an organization. Martindo (talk) 10:35, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

Disputed former name removed

"The Insight Meditation Society (IMS, formerly Insight Meditation Center)" was referenced by:

• Maguire, Jack (2001). Essential Buddhism: a complete guide to beliefs and practices. Simon and Schuster. ISBN 0-671-04188-6.

I have removed this per this comment on my talk page from Corezion (talk · contribs):

Dear Cunard,

In your September 29, 2009 edit of the Insight Meditation Society, you added the text "formerly 'Insight Meditation Center'" and cited a publication by Jack Maguire. I have worked at IMS for a little over 7 years now and have a good relationship with its founders. I also have seen some of the original documents of the incorporation. In speaking with them and reviewing the founding documents I have evidence to dispute your edit. I wanted to let you know that the organization was never the Insight Meditation Center. Would you like to find another way to use the cited work in the article while removing the inaccuracy?

Best, Charlie Stevenson IT Manager Insight Meditation Society

Corezion (talk) 15:36, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

I have not seen any reason to doubt Corezion's assertion so have removed this content from article and noted my removal here on the talk page. Cunard (talk) 09:22, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Non-functioning link(s)

Heyp! I removed a link that is directing to the very page of Insight Meditation Society (The Forest Refuge).

"MS offers Buddhist meditation retreats at two facilities – the Retreat Center and The Forest Refuge – in rural central Massachusetts."

Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 21:50, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Shouldn't Spirit Rock be mentioned in the article, and not just as an external link?

• Spirit Rock—Meditation center founded by Jack Kornfield and others in Marin County, California

My impression is that Spirit Rock is an integral part of the Insight Meditation Movement, or else a key and important offshoot, and worthy of mention in either event.

Barre Center for Buddhist Studies (Add section)

• Specific text to be added or removed:

The Barre Center for Buddhist Studies, the nearby "study center" founded by Joseph Goldstein and Sharon Salzberg, operates as a fully independent nonsectarian educational institution.

BCBS hosts public and private events with meditation teachers and academic faculty, including Joanna Macy, Charles Hallisey, Gregory Kramer, Thanissaro Bhikkhu, Stephen Batchelor, and more. BCBS is an established center for Buddhist Studies in America, and supports internal dharma movements including Ecodharma and Socially Engaged Buddhism.

• Reason for the change: BCBS is mentioned in various other wiki articles, but these mentions are red links. Adding it as a section to this page would resolve that problem. (If accepted to this article, a redirect will be needed). I had submitted a short draft of a standalone article, but at the suggestion of @Asilvering, I am now proposing that it become a section on this page instead.

• References supporting change: Please see the use of these citations in the draft article.

https://fredericklenzfoundation.org/barre-center-for-buddhist-studies/

https://www.buddhistinquiry.org/about/

https://www.lionsroar.com/profile-barre-center-for-buddhist-studies/

https://www.buddhistinquiry.org/article/exploring-new-approaches-the-barre-center-for-buddhist-studies/

https://inquiringmind.com/article/0702_23_barre-center/

https://www.buddhistinquiry.org/faculty/

https://journals.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/index.php/jiabs/article/download/8992/2885

https://www.buddhistdoor.net/features/the-barre-center-for-buddhist-studies-ecodharma-beacon/

https://www.buddhistdoor.net/news/barre-center-for-buddhist-studies-hosts-family-members-and-survivors-of-gun-violence/

https://tricycle.org/article/ecodharma-buddhist-response/

Some other sources:

https://web.archive.org/web/20150906155355/http://www.onbeing.org/program/transcript/7711

https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/223058493

https://books.google.com/books?id=7F4lAAAAIBAJ&pg=PA11&dq=%22Barre+Center+for+Buddhist+Studies%22&article_id=2630,1253722&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiinNakjuaJAxW95ckDHfmjEccQ6AF6BAgIEAI

Stephentroy (talk) 15:20, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

@Stephentroy, looks like you copied the template incorrectly, so it hasn't gone to the COI edit queue. Have another look at Template:Edit COI and edit your original comment here. (In particular, you need to remove all those nowiki tags.) -- asilvering (talk) 17:34, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! I don't know where those nowiki tags came from... they seem to be part of the template! Oh well, I believe it worked this time. Thank you for your diligence! Stephentroy (talk) 18:43, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Reply 21-NOV-2024

  Clarification requested  

1. The proposed text "BCBS now operates as a fully independent nonsectarian educational institution." is unclear as to the timeframe for "now". A better use would be "As of 2004..." etc. Please clarify.
2. "BCBS regularly hosts many visiting meditation teachers and academic faculty..." It is not clear what is meant by the term "regularly". Please specify.
3. "BCBS has become an established center for Buddhist Studies in America, and is on the forefront of internal dharma movements" It's not clear from this sentence who has made the determination that BCBS "has become an established center..." (is this simply the date of the center's opening?) Also, it's similarly unclear who determined BCBS as being "on the forefront of internal dharma movements". Since these claims could be seen as quite substantial, they would need to be attributed to, for example, a learned person, entity, or other such organization in which dharmic studies are their field of expertise to speak on such matters. References were provided above with the request, but the request didn't make clear which reference applied to which statement. If I've overlooked a claim-source connection made in your request, please point me the way to the right URL link or links, I'll be happy to take a look at any one of them.
4. When ready to proceed with the requested information, kindly change the {{Edit COI}} template's answer parameter to read from |ans=y to |ans=n. Thank you!

Regards,  Spintendo  03:52, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

References

Thank you for updating the proposed text, it's much appreciated. Reference #7 The Charles S. Prebish source titled North American Buddhist Studies:A Current survey of the field does not indicate a page number, rather, it gives only the page range of 253-282 (which is the entire article). Please give the actual page number which verifies the given claim. I'm guessing it's page 279. Please confirm. Regards,  Spintendo  13:39, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Yup! Page 279: "For example, it might be possible to argue that the Nyingma Institute and Barre Center for Buddhist Studies each have far more developed Buddhist Studies programs than the more academically diversified Graduate Theological Union" Stephentroy (talk) 14:29, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Also, where is this section of text to be inserted? Please clarify. Regards,  Spintendo  23:06, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

@Spintendo, if you don't mind massaging the text a bit, imo it fits as an extension to the first paragraph of Overview, following was founded by Joseph Goldstein and Sharon Salzberg on land adjoining IMS. -- asilvering (talk) 00:13, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

It was my opinion that this should be a totally separate article, as the organizations are totally separate, despite sharing their founders and town. So my instinct would be to give it a distinct section here, wherever you think it fits best. This IMS article is pretty short, so a new section could go anywhere. Or this content could be folded into any existing section. I leave this to your discretion. Thank you for your help! Stephentroy (talk) 14:09, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

For the record, I have no objections to this solution either. (I'm not making any edits myself as I declined the AfC draft and suggested that a few sentences be added here instead.) -- asilvering (talk) 19:07, 4 December 2024 (UTC)