Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Catalan-speaking countries

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 20:00, 28 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Portal:Catalan-speaking countries

This portal is a somewhat unique. Based on the title there are only 4 modern countries within the scope which is less than 20. The news is 8+ years old which shows lack of maintenance. The page has a single static selected bio, selected article, DYK and selected quote - none of which are about the named topic of countries. The selected image box remakns empty.

Even the intro is about Catalan Countries while the mainspace equivalent Catalan-speaking countries is a redirect. The intro says the term is controversial. Our article on Catalan Countries is a much better introduction to this topic then the portals is, including a dynamic map, explanations of different ways to define the topic etc that the portal does not have.

Note this portal is not about the Catalan language or people who speak/spoke Catalan. It is a hodgepodge of info.

Basically this is an abandoned portal stuck in 2012 while our much better articles continue to grow and expand. Legacypac (talk) 14:36, 21 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete crap portal. CoolSkittle (talk) 14:57, 21 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep for now, but possibly rename to Portal:Catalan language or Portal:Catalan areas. This is not a particularly narrow topic. This history of the Catalan language and of Catalan-speaking peoples is quite well-documented on Wikipedia. It's a long and complex history of competing identities, overlapping and conflicting identities and nationalisms, linguistic suppressions and resistance, and it's a major topic in the history of Iberia and southern France, as well as in the history of European nationhood and state-formation.

It has a much broader geographical and historical scope than could be included in Portal:Catalonia, and if this portal doesn't exist the topic would be fragmented across at least three other portals (Franc, Spain, Catalonia; plus whatever other portals we have for sub-national divisions of Spain and southern France)

I would personally like to see many fewer portals on Wikipedia, but there is not yet consensus for the cull I would like. Unless and until such a cull is agreed, and unless the cull goes deep (which I'd also support), we should be looking at how to best cover these topics rather than salami-slicing parts of them.

In any case, this portal is in quite good shape compared with others. It's not a WP:REDUNDANTFORK of a navbox, it includes two sets of selected articles, and it actually works. (Functionality shouldn't be a surprise, but in portalspace it is far from universal). --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:14, 21 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Empty portal, 14 subpages, created 2007-02-22 13:36:32 by User:Xtv. ONE article, ONE biography, ONE image. What a broad coverage ! This is not a navigation tool, only a fake. Portal:Catalan-speaking countries. Pldx1 (talk) 18:10, 21 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – As presented, the portal is too ambiguous, presenting a confused mixture of various content. No prejudice against the creation of a more focused portal, such as that based (in part) upon Category:Catalan language. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 22:34, 21 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Delete - I find the Keep !vote of User:BrownHairedGirl and the Delete !vote of User:Northamerica1000 to be interesting, but possibly cause for limited optimism in that it shows that both of them are offering reasoned positions, although they usually both take positions opposite to what they have taken here. I think that the hodge-podge nature of the portal is reason to delete, and allow a new portal to be created, rather than waiting 60 days to renominate this one for deletion. Robert McClenon (talk) 01:45, 22 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Robert McClenon, we are now almost out of the phase of cleaning up the portalspam. There's about 100–150 spammy portals still at MFD, but basically that phase is nearly over. We are now down to 1,586 portals from the peak of 5,700, and within two days we'll have fewer portals than the 1500 before the portal project was "rebooted".

We are now moving into different territory, of long-standing issues which largely predate the WP:ENDPORTALS RFC. Those are matters of scope and quality, both of which take us increasingly into territory which requires further RFCs to try to establish what portals are for, what they should look like, and what scope is acceptable. So I am being quite cautious now, trying to avoid MFD getting too far ahead of wider consensus. If we are going to have the mass cull that I'd like, it should not be done by salami-slicing.

In this case, I agree that this portal is jumbly, but I also don't see any clear sense of a vision here of whether we are looking for some other way to have some portal covering the broader history of Catalan identity, language and history etc, or whether this is effectively a decision to remove this topic area from portalspace. I can see see a case for both approaches, but no consensus on which is being approach is being taken here. It's easy to label this portal as a hodgepodge, but Catalan history is very fractured, and I don't want to see a topic deleted solely because it's not as simple as modern nation-state. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 02:21, 22 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Portal renaming/retasking is difficult if not impossible for multi-page portals like this one. If Portal:Catalan language would be a good Portal to have, best to start over rather than try to morph an existing portal. This portal's subject is too narrow to meet the WP:POG guideline. UnitedStatesian (talk) 05:31, 22 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.