Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Bosnia and Herzegovina
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This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Bosnia and Herzegovina. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.
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Bosnia and Herzegovina
edit- Operation Oganj '92 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This page only has one source from a book that doesn't even have a link. Everything else that mentions the course of events and the fight has no source. Better quality sources are needed from books, not news reports made +20 years after the event, they are unreliable. There is no mention of this operation in the Balkan battlegrounds
- Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 December 4. —cyberbot ITalk to my owner:Online 13:25, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Military, and Bosnia and Herzegovina. Shellwood (talk) 14:35, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- Attack on Doboj and Gradačac (1994) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This fighting is covered in two small paragraphs that cover not even a third of one page of the source, a comprehensive history of the Balkan wars of the 90s. I have removed all the non-reliable sources and unsupported material and do not consider that what is left meets the SIGCOV bar. Don't be misled by the mention of "corps", these were lucky if they were brigade-sized formations at the best of times. The fact that a principal source on these wars doesn't provide numbers of troops involved, commanders names or casualty figures is another indication the subject just isn't notable. Perhaps if presented along with all the battles in northeastern Bosnia between August and November, but not at this small scale. Yet another of these recently created articles on individually non-notable actions of this war. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 11:34, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, History, Military, and Bosnia and Herzegovina. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 11:34, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- Operation Berbir (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I removed unreliable sources from this article, leaving it uncited. Neither this event, the suburb of Bosanska Gradiska it apparently occurred in, the Croatian unit that apparently participated, or the operation name are mentioned in the comprehensive two-volume CIA history of the 90s wars in the Balkans. A Google Books search found nothing about this fighting either. A non-notable firefight (if it happened at all). Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 23:18, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, History, Military, and Bosnia and Herzegovina. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 23:18, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- Delete fails WP:GNG. Yet another non-RS page by the same creator. Mztourist (talk) 03:09, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- Delete fails GNG. Intothatdarkness 14:12, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- Operation Čapljina (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The "Flow of the operation" section of this article, which concerns the actual subject of this article, is unsourced. The comprehensive CIA history of the Balkan conflicts of the 90s, Balkan Battlegrounds mentions this operation only in passing, in fact in a footnote, not even in the body text. Another article of dubious notability created by new accounts that have popped up in the last few months. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:23, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Military, and Bosnia and Herzegovina. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:23, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- Delete fails WP:GNG. Another poorly sourced page by its creator. Mztourist (talk) 10:11, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 13:45, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- Battle of Hrasnica (1992) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The "Course of the battle" section of this article is essentially unsourced, which means that the notability of the entire article is in doubt. I have looked at the two books used as sources, and neither have any mention of this battle, and a Google Books search has likewise failed to find anything. I deleted local news portal sources, as 30 years after the conflict, if this "battle" was going to be documented, it would have been by now. Another dubious article created by one of the several new accounts that have popped up in the space in the last six months. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:02, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- I should add that I searched the comprehensive CIA history of the wars, Balkan Battlegrounds, and it also have no mention of this "battle". Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:04, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Military, and Bosnia and Herzegovina. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:02, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- Delete fails WP:GNG. Creator seems to have created many similar pages. Mztourist (talk) 10:13, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 13:46, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- Delete, i totally agree. It seems as if the creator of this article has a thing with creating battles from the Yugoslav wars that are either not real or do not meet the criteria for a wikipedia page. Peja mapping (talk) 13:05, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- Battles for Gornje Kolibe (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This skirmish was a very small part of Operation Corridor 92, for which we already have a Good Article which doesn't even mention this event due to its very minor nature. The village of Gornje Kolibe is mentioned once in the second volume of the comprehensive CIA history of the 90s wars in the Balkans, "Balkan Battlegrounds", but only briefly in the context of Operation Corridor 92, and none of the detail of this fighting is even mentioned. Non-notable firefight, appears to have been created effectively as a memorial page to those who fought there. Events from 30 years ago in this war have been examined in considerable detail in academic standard publications, so I have deleted the various local/town/regional news portals, many of which are dubious and/or biased and have no real editorial process (and therefore not reliable), and what is left (cited) is pretty much nothing. One of numerous highly marginally notable articles recently created by a series of now blocked socks. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:13, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- I should say that the other (none news portal) sources I removed were writings of former VRS officers, including at least two whom were directly involved in Operation Corridor 92, so hardly independent of the subject. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:29, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Military and Bosnia and Herzegovina. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:13, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- Comment. @Peacemaker67 would a possible WP:ATD be a selective merge to the the village of Gornje Kolibe? We have practically no content on the village and this would seem to be a pertinent event to the history of that village? Obviously any unverified content shouldn't be moved over.4meter4 (talk) 09:30, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 11:47, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect to Gornje Kolibe per 4meter4. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 12:04, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Alexandermcnabb The town doesn't currently mention the event. We can only redirect to articles where the topic is addressed; hence the need to make this a "selective merge". Best.4meter4 (talk) 12:07, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- very limited material to selectively merge, but yes. I would also add a sentence to the Operation Corridor 92 article. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 12:28, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Alexandermcnabb The town doesn't currently mention the event. We can only redirect to articles where the topic is addressed; hence the need to make this a "selective merge". Best.4meter4 (talk) 12:07, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- Merge to Gornje Kolibe or Operation Corridor 92 if possible. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 18:51, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Merge or redirect? If yes, what target?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Benison (Beni · talk) 11:04, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- to me, given this is about the fighting, the most obvious merge target is Operation Corridor 92 rather than the village article (although a mention of the fighting in the village article would be appropriate. Only a very small amount of the content is eligible to be merged, as it wouldn't be appropriate to merge uncited content to a Good Article, and the reliable sources barely mention this fighting in passing. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:10, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- Delete - This looks like a case very similar to the recently deleted Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Siege of Smoluća (2nd nomination). As a very minor skirmish this may not warrant an own article and then may also be removed from the campaignbox. It may, as had been suggested in the case of Smoluća, be mentioned briefly in some broader article like, in this case, the one on Operation Corridor 92. We should beware, though, not to overburden those broader articles by including each and every fight over some local village as there must be hundreds of them. --Proofreader (talk) 19:52, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- Offensive in Podrinje (1993) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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After removing unreliable local news portals etc, we are left with citations to two pages of the CIA history. I checked them, and all three of the citations failed verification, the only apparent reference to this fighting being a paragraph fragment as follows: "The VRS Drina Corps attacked again late in May and crushed Muslim forces in the salient , driving them back some 15 kilometers to the Praca River and eliminating the threat to Visegrad . Follow - on attacks from Cajnice in the southeast toward Gorazde itself , however , gained little ground . " on page 185. This isn't significant coverage, and therefore doesn't meet WP:N. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:22, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Military, and Bosnia and Herzegovina. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:22, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 11:49, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- Hello, to be clear i didnt put this sources but i think that this offensive is in one official book, i will try to find and add content in it, if its bad or not proper, then delete the whole thing (just please dont bring opera singer admins to blocc me like in smolucca) Wynnsanity (talk) 15:40, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- Looks like someone didn't go to geography classes. Podrinje means "on the river Drina" or "next to the Drina" and thus includes the entire region. at the same time, I checked your claims and of course they are fake, if you had entered and edited the pages without bad intentions, you would have seen that on page 186 it is written "The Bosnian Serbs had nevertheless achieved most of their 1993 objectives in the Drina valley and This time Muslim bravery alone was not enough to prevail against the stronger, better organized and better led Serb troops. The text is badly written and the sources are in the wrong place, but I won't say anything because I understand everything about you and I don't want to be blocked because I love Wikipedia. If you would be kind enough to allow me to only summarize the entire Balkan Battlegrounds article here as I did before, I would appreciate it, thank you Sir Wynnsanity (talk) 16:28, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- If you keep adding material to articles that is clearly not supported by the sources, then you are clearly not here to build an encyclopaedia. I’m not sure what it is you think you are doing, but it is extremely unhelpful to the encyclopaedia. Please stop doing it, either through this account, meat puppets or IPs. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 20:55, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- ??? 1) I only use this account, the fact that other users are not satisfied with you is your problem 2.) I wrote a text that only appears in Balkan Battl. 3.) you have no arguments and never had any 2A00:10:9910:4C01:193C:197E:5B6B:E8CC (talk) 21:11, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- They say, from an IP. With regards especially to your last point, please remember not to make personal attacks. - The Bushranger One ping only 23:49, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- ??? 1) I only use this account, the fact that other users are not satisfied with you is your problem 2.) I wrote a text that only appears in Balkan Battl. 3.) you have no arguments and never had any 2A00:10:9910:4C01:193C:197E:5B6B:E8CC (talk) 21:11, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- If you keep adding material to articles that is clearly not supported by the sources, then you are clearly not here to build an encyclopaedia. I’m not sure what it is you think you are doing, but it is extremely unhelpful to the encyclopaedia. Please stop doing it, either through this account, meat puppets or IPs. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 20:55, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per nom ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 11:41, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- Comment I have tagged the bolded Operation "Prača '93" in the lead as dubious, as the sources listed do not use this name. I have also tagged the goals of the operation given in the lead as failed verification, as the goal of the overall offensive (of which this was a part) was to clear the ARBiH from the Drina valley, but the goals listed in the lead are not given in the sources. As it stands now, the "Operation" section has all the material in Balkan Battlegrounds. It consists of a direct copy and paste of a paragraph on page 390 (this is ok as there is no copyright on US government material such as this). The rest of the article is background and aftermath, which really should not be considered when deciding if this subject is notable. There is probably scope for an article covering all VRS offensive operations around Gorazde and Visegrad between January and June 1993 (which takes up about 2/3rds of a page in BB, but this article is a non-notable subset of those operations in my view, and like many of these newly created articles, appears to be focussed only on the point of view of VRS success instead of a neutral point of view. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:36, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla Ohhhhhh, no! 11:07, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- Comment I have now removed material from the infobox not cited in the article, and removed the unused reference. I have also reinstated the dubious tag on the operation name that was removed as part of the reverted draftification in the last 24 hours. In my view, a brief mention of this minor operation comprising a single paragraph in the single source (and here), is insufficient to meet WP:SIGCOV. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:49, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- for clarity, Vol 2 of BB is a more detailed version of Vol 1, so it doesn’t mean there is a second source, the map is likewise from BB. The new bolded title is only partially supported, as the second village was still on the frontline, and was not fully captured in this fighting. I remain of the view that this event lacks SIGCOV. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 21:27, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- Comment talk about constant moving of the goalposts, now the bolded title has "Kaostice" mentioned, a place not mentioned at all in the only source for this fighting. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 23:45, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- Now it says "Međeđa region"... What "region"? It is a small village. It's hard to keep up with the changes to the title, all of which seems intended to make this event look bigger than it was. It just isn't notable. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:33, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
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- Wikipedia:WikiProject Bosnia and Herzegovina/Article alerts, a bot-maintained listing of a variety of changes affecting Bosnia and Herzegovina related pages including deletion discussions