Category talk:Categories with invalid label
Latest comment: 1 month ago by ExcarnateSojourner in topic RFM discussion: November 2023–August 2024
The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for moves, mergers and splits (permalink).
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The current name is obscure, a holdover from when you did actually have to supply a label to {{poscatboiler}} and its friends. Now that I have updated the corresponding error message to remove the reference to labels, which is now a purely Lua-internal term, I think it's time to also rename this category. This, that and the other (talk) 00:30, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
- @This, that and the other I support a move of this nature. Maybe "Unrecognized categories" is a simpler name that conveys the same gist? If this seems too short, how about "Categories unrecognized by the category code" (or "... category system") or similar? In a sense, being "unrecognized" is the actual error; being "undefined in the category system" is the cause of the error. I'd like to move away from the term "category tree"; this is indeed the current name of the top-level module that implements category-handling, but I've been thinking of merging the Module:category tree system with the poscatboiler subsystem and calling the result simply Module:category (the topic subsystem would become a subsystem of Module:category, and the current special handling of "langname" categories in the poscatboiler subsystem might become the "lexical" subsystem of Module:category, since the intent of these categories is to represent lexical rather than topical/semantic properties of terms). All of this reorganization would be under the hood and not affect the data modules other than likely moving them to different roots, e.g. Module:category tree/poscatboiler/data/terms by etymology might become Module:category/lexical/terms by etymology or something. Benwing2 (talk) 09:22, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
- @Benwing2 It would be great to retire the name "poscatboiler". I was even thinking of sending
{{poscatboiler}}to RFDO, as it seems completely obsolete other than a lingering use on a tiny handful of categories that still confuse{{auto cat}}, like Cat:Reddit slang by language. - However, I'm quite partial to the name "category tree". Why do you feel it should be moved away from? It feels like the term would be intuitively understood even by someone who doesn't know that the term has a precise computer-science definition, whereas a "category system" sounds more abstract and difficult to reason about.
- I agree that the name "Unrecognized categories" is too short, but I'm not too fussed what new name we choose for this cat, so long as it clearly emphasises that this is an irregular/error condition. You could argue that "unrecognized" sounds a bit like the system isn't smart enough to recognize this category yet, when it is really just a matter of a missing definition in a list, but as I said, I'm not fussed. This, that and the other (talk) 11:21, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
- @This, that and the other Yes I completely agree with getting rid of "poscatboiler". I've long wanted this gone, but couldn't think of a better name. In truth it's the "subsystem that handles everything except topic categories", and it could fairly easily be made to handle topic categories as well, in which case it would become "the one subsystem to rule them all" and then there'd be no particular need to have subsystems as they're currently defined at all. The thing I don't like about "category tree" is that categories don't actually form a tree, since there are multiple parents to each category. It's true that we put breadcrumbs at the top based on the first parent of every category, which gives the impression of a tree, but the other parents are still there and appear at the bottom (and in addition all children appear in the list of subcategories, whether or not they have the category in question as their first parent). Also when looking for the module that handles categories, I'd expect it to be called simply "category" or "categories"; "category tree" suggests (to me at least) that it's some sort of ancillary module. Benwing2 (talk) 20:21, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
- I forgot to mention, a similar issue to CAT:Reddit slang by language occurs with CAT:Sanskritic formations by language. This was solved not using
{{poscatboiler}}directly but by putting "Sanskritic formations by language" as a raw category definition in Module:category tree/poscatboiler/data/terms by etymology. Benwing2 (talk) 21:07, 2 November 2023 (UTC)- BTW I fixed the issue for these two categories, which now use
{{auto cat}}with no special hacks needed. Let me know if you know of any other such categories. Benwing2 (talk) 22:52, 2 November 2023 (UTC)- One more thing ... we have both CAT:en:Reddit and CAT:English Reddit slang. Should they be merged? Benwing2 (talk) 22:54, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
- BTW I fixed the issue for these two categories, which now use
- It's true that categories don't form a strict tree. "Category system" would be more accurate in that regard. But the user-facing name doesn't have to be the same as the module name.
- There are still four cats using
{{poscatboiler}}(plus one in a comment) and six cats using{{topic cat}}. - As for the two Reddit cats, I'm surprised you would want to merge them... it seems clear enough to me that Cat:en:Reddit is a "related-to" topic category for terms about Reddit - the metalanguage, like subreddit - while Cat:English Reddit slang is a "terms by usage" category for slang supposedly used on Reddit, like landchad (the term's denotation having nothing to do with Reddit itself). Having said that, I am not sure that "Reddit slang" is a particularly viable subcat of "Internet slang"; a lot of these terms didn't originate on Reddit and don't actually seem restricted to Reddit. It probably only seems that way because of the prominence of Reddit as a site where people use Internet slang heavily. This, that and the other (talk) 23:50, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
- @This, that and the other There should be no more direct calls to
{{poscatboiler}}or{{topic cat}}. I see your point about Reddit-related topics vs. Reddit slang. If you think 'Reddit slang' is unviable, maybe create a RFM discussion about merging it into 'Internet slang'; your point about this seems well-taken. Benwing2 (talk) 00:30, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
- @This, that and the other There should be no more direct calls to
- I forgot to mention, a similar issue to CAT:Reddit slang by language occurs with CAT:Sanskritic formations by language. This was solved not using
- @This, that and the other Yes I completely agree with getting rid of "poscatboiler". I've long wanted this gone, but couldn't think of a better name. In truth it's the "subsystem that handles everything except topic categories", and it could fairly easily be made to handle topic categories as well, in which case it would become "the one subsystem to rule them all" and then there'd be no particular need to have subsystems as they're currently defined at all. The thing I don't like about "category tree" is that categories don't actually form a tree, since there are multiple parents to each category. It's true that we put breadcrumbs at the top based on the first parent of every category, which gives the impression of a tree, but the other parents are still there and appear at the bottom (and in addition all children appear in the list of subcategories, whether or not they have the category in question as their first parent). Also when looking for the module that handles categories, I'd expect it to be called simply "category" or "categories"; "category tree" suggests (to me at least) that it's some sort of ancillary module. Benwing2 (talk) 20:21, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
- @Benwing2 It would be great to retire the name "poscatboiler". I was even thinking of sending
- Moved by Benwing. — excarnateSojourner (ta·co) 07:04, 23 August 2024 (UTC)