Khu'hamgaba Kitap
Entry format
editI've fixed the entry uthuku. Can you please do this to all the other entries you created? —CodeCat 21:11, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
- Hmm, I haven't studied Kamba but it seems close enough to Swahili that we might be able to get away with modifying
{{sw-noun}}. There are a lot of formatting issues with your entries, not all of which are your fault — we need to build some infrastructure for Kamba entries. If you're interested in continuing working on this language, I can try to help you set up what will be needed. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 21:22, 11 December 2016 (UTC) - I saw the message you left for CodeCat... unfortunately, she didn't really explain how you are to adapt this, and I imagine that for a newbie the task is not going to be particularly possible. I'll try to help you myself. The first thing I need to know is what the tonal diacritics that are used are (just acute accents?), so that they don't appear in pagetitles even when you link to them. Also, what about the tildes — it seems that you haven't been using these in pagetitles, but we do for Gĩkũyũ. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 19:44, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
- I asked if they were able to, and they seemed to want to give it a try. If they get stuck I could always give feedback/help afterwards. —CodeCat 22:09, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
- Hmm... seems like Kamba does only use tildes as a tonal marking. Though, in some older texts, it appears that the dot below and the macron were also used. I would include the tildes in the titles... only if the resources did too. Yesterday, I found a book for English speakers that does include tonal markings. The only problem is that the guide is for advanced speakers of Kamba and assumes that the speaker knows basic Kamba already. Thanks for the comment though! If I find any terms that do include tonal marks with an English translation, I'll be sure to move the page to that . Khu'hamgaba Kitap ᐅᖃᕐᕕᐅᔪᖅ - talk 01:18, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
- No, the idea is that we don't want the tonal marks in the page name. Again, see how I can link to chifúwa with the tonal mark, but the page title itself doesn't have it — that way the page name matches the way it is normally written. However, that linking ability is only possible because I have set acute accents to be stripped in links. What exactly are the tildes used for in Kamba? We need to determine whether they should be stripped. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 06:23, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
- It appears that Kamba only uses tonal marks in formal and religious situations. In informal and normal situations, tonal marks are not used. I think that the use of tonal marks can be compared to the usage of stress marks in Russian. I think, and this is only my belief, that we should remove the tonal marks in Kamba for the page titles. As is already done in Russian and in Hebrew. Khu'hamgaba Kitap ᐅᖃᕐᕕᐅᔪᖅ - talk 12:41, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, I agree. To do that, though, I need to know what all the possible diacritics are. What exactly are the tildes used for? —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 18:09, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
- Finally! I know what the tilde does in Kamba! In Kamba, the tilde is not tonal. It changes the pronunciation of the vowel it is on. For example, I is pronounced as E normally, but when the letter I becomes, Ĩ, it is pronounced as /aɪ/. U (/uː/) becomes /y/ when it gains a tilde too. As responding to your question about what diacritics there are in Kamba, I think that there is a simple answer, only the tilde. With only one exception, (written in 1885) I have only seen the tilde used in books since then. So I think that should be the only one that should be recognized. In the template, it should white-list tildes (because they are a phonetic letter), but also gives the ability to add tonal marks (and tildes) if possible. Thank you for your help and effort with the Kamba language! It has been a great help getting useful feedback from someone else! Khu'hamgaba Kitap ᐅᖃᕐᕕᐅᔪᖅ - talk 20:50, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
- I am rather concerned about how we can do this if you don't have modern resources at your disposal. I will have some available to me in late January, but I am not the one studying Kamba! The behaviour of the tilde is rather to similar to that of Kikuyu, unsurprisingly. This means that entry titles should use tildes, so you should move the entries you've created to the pages with tildes (you can mark the redirects left behind from moving them with
{{delete}}). Anyway, I suppose you don't know which tonal diacritics are used? I don't even know how many phonemic tone levels Kamba has. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 05:22, 18 December 2016 (UTC)- Actually, I do have more modern resources than I did previously did! I will make a list of them on my Userpage. Khu'hamgaba Kitap ᐅᖃᕐᕕᐅᔪᖅ - talk 13:25, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
- Your first link doesn't seem to work. I'd seen that LiveLingua manual before, but it is really shoddily done. And that paper using Kamba's phonology to advance some theoretical argument distinguished <a á a̋ â>, but it was unclear to me how many phonemic tone levels there were. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 17:42, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
- Actually, I do have more modern resources than I did previously did! I will make a list of them on my Userpage. Khu'hamgaba Kitap ᐅᖃᕐᕕᐅᔪᖅ - talk 13:25, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
- I am rather concerned about how we can do this if you don't have modern resources at your disposal. I will have some available to me in late January, but I am not the one studying Kamba! The behaviour of the tilde is rather to similar to that of Kikuyu, unsurprisingly. This means that entry titles should use tildes, so you should move the entries you've created to the pages with tildes (you can mark the redirects left behind from moving them with
- Finally! I know what the tilde does in Kamba! In Kamba, the tilde is not tonal. It changes the pronunciation of the vowel it is on. For example, I is pronounced as E normally, but when the letter I becomes, Ĩ, it is pronounced as /aɪ/. U (/uː/) becomes /y/ when it gains a tilde too. As responding to your question about what diacritics there are in Kamba, I think that there is a simple answer, only the tilde. With only one exception, (written in 1885) I have only seen the tilde used in books since then. So I think that should be the only one that should be recognized. In the template, it should white-list tildes (because they are a phonetic letter), but also gives the ability to add tonal marks (and tildes) if possible. Thank you for your help and effort with the Kamba language! It has been a great help getting useful feedback from someone else! Khu'hamgaba Kitap ᐅᖃᕐᕕᐅᔪᖅ - talk 20:50, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, I agree. To do that, though, I need to know what all the possible diacritics are. What exactly are the tildes used for? —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 18:09, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
- It appears that Kamba only uses tonal marks in formal and religious situations. In informal and normal situations, tonal marks are not used. I think that the use of tonal marks can be compared to the usage of stress marks in Russian. I think, and this is only my belief, that we should remove the tonal marks in Kamba for the page titles. As is already done in Russian and in Hebrew. Khu'hamgaba Kitap ᐅᖃᕐᕕᐅᔪᖅ - talk 12:41, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
- No, the idea is that we don't want the tonal marks in the page name. Again, see how I can link to chifúwa with the tonal mark, but the page title itself doesn't have it — that way the page name matches the way it is normally written. However, that linking ability is only possible because I have set acute accents to be stripped in links. What exactly are the tildes used for in Kamba? We need to determine whether they should be stripped. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 06:23, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
- Hmm... seems like Kamba does only use tildes as a tonal marking. Though, in some older texts, it appears that the dot below and the macron were also used. I would include the tildes in the titles... only if the resources did too. Yesterday, I found a book for English speakers that does include tonal markings. The only problem is that the guide is for advanced speakers of Kamba and assumes that the speaker knows basic Kamba already. Thanks for the comment though! If I find any terms that do include tonal marks with an English translation, I'll be sure to move the page to that . Khu'hamgaba Kitap ᐅᖃᕐᕕᐅᔪᖅ - talk 01:18, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
- I asked if they were able to, and they seemed to want to give it a try. If they get stuck I could always give feedback/help afterwards. —CodeCat 22:09, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
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