Talk:Germany–Iran relations

Inline citations needed

The first two paragraphs of the "first pahlavi era and nazi germany" section are devoid of inline citations. If anyone has the proper sources, please either add them in yourself or mention them here and I will add them. Samuuurai (talk) 04:56, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Naming

Shouldnt this article be called "Iranian-German relations" or "German-Iranian relations" in order to align with others? I believe in German the most common way to call it would be "German-Persian relations" - even today. How is that? 03.03.06.

Well, we have to keep the name Iran though, as it is the official title (even though Persdian is correct too).--Zereshk 11:52, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

"German-Iranian relations" and "Deutsch-Iranische Beziehungen" 68.237.120.82 02:37, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Inacurracies

I think there's an anachronism in some facts depicted in that article (speaking about nazi germany in the late 20's ? the nazi state started in 1933) and somethings that aren't verifier. So I applied {{fact}} on some facts needing verification and the {{not verified}} on top of the article. Fabienkhan | talk page 13:06, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Capitalization of Formal Titles

Throughout the article Reza Khan is referred to as "the shah". I propose that he be referred to as "the Shah". This is because it is a formal title, and thus should be capitalized. I will implement this change if no one objects. Agha Nader 21:30, 10 January 2007 (UTC)Agha Nader

• I agree.--Carabinieri 22:06, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Done! The Behnam 03:04, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Expansion

Can someone add some info concerning the occupation fo Iran during WW2 when the Allies (Britain, Russia) feared relations between Iran & Germany (due to significance of Iran and her geopolitical potential for shipping goods using the railway system set up by the shah) & they took control of Iran, kicking out Reza Shah and sending him off to a South African colony to live for the rest of his life (and conditions weren't exactly favorable). Iran played a very important role in ww2 in so far as it helped with the transfer of goods to Russian and British Ally forces,especially when Russia was invaded and there was a shortage of ammunition and food. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.58.132.158 (talk) 20:48, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Edwin Black's source

I strongly suggest avoiding using Edwin Black as a source. At this link shows, he often contradicts his own articles on Iran.

http://www.iranian.com/main/blog/iran-history-buff/edwin-black-lies-and-distorts-irans-history

POV label

this article is skewed towards controversial events. more reliable sources on relationship would be good. LibStar (talk) 06:42, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

removing POV tag with no active discussion per Template:POV

I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:

This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:

1. There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
2. It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
3. In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.

Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 21:52, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

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External links modified

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There is so much propaganda without any credible and peer-reviewed sources

For starters, the name change had nothing to do with Germany, it must be removed entirely from this article since it has nothing to do with the relationship between Germany and Iran. I find it increasingly funny that not a single source was provided for that whole paragraph. I'll be erasing this paragraph, the rest that needs to be removed and cleaned up will have to be done by others.

By the early 1930s, Reza Shah or the elder Reza Pahlavi's economic ties with Nazi Germany began worrying the Allied states. Germany's modern state and economy highly impressed the Shah, and there were hundreds of Germans involved in every aspect of the state from setting up factories to building roads, railroads and bridges Reza Shah never traveled to Germany, how would he know what type of country Germany is? Turkey was the only country that he traveled to when he was the Shah.

A certain ideologically driven individual with ulterior motives copy-pasted stuff from another article to this article, and that stuff is made-up. All of it needs to be removed from this article. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:History_of_the_Jews_in_Iran#%22Reza_Shah_sympathized_with_Nazi_Germany%22?_Where_is_the_evidence_for_this?

Sickofthisbs (talk) 20:41, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Nazis declaring Iranians Aryans/Hitler personally saying so

No they didnt. The original source is a George Lenczowski’s “Russia And The West In Iran” book from the 1940s apparently mistaking the assurances given to the Persian ambassador with an actual declaration. Its been mutated since then where now a source (“Iran under the Ayatollahs”)is claiming that Hitler declared Iranians Aryan (“This meshed well with Adolf Hitler’s declaration of Iran as an Aryan country”) now meshing the supposed Reich statement for Hitlers personal statement, neither of which have any record or primary source beyond to back them up. Ansari’s book goes into actual detail including the Iranians meeting with Walter Gross and no thats not an accurate description of the events of 1936 or any other event. Ansaris “Perceptions of Iran” book is more recent, cites primary sources, and also concludes the Nazis never made such a declaration. (See pages 133-137 of his book) — 76.164.80.158 (talk) 05:51, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

I have reviewed the chapter from Ansari's book about this, and nowhere does it invalidate the Lenczowski source or even address it. Therefore, it is not invalid. Furthermore, the Iranian ambassador's meetings with Walter Gross do not contradict or invalidate Hitler's declaration of Iranians as Aryans. Gross' decision not to blanketly declare Iran as Aryan was a simple bureaucratic decision because Germany had never declared any country to be Aryan. It was simply Gross' job to back off from any big formal declarations like that. None of this contradicts the Reich Cabinet's higher-up decision to include Iranians as Aryans, which we know they did based on the Lenczowski source. Therefore, Iranians were considered Aryans under Nazi Germany. Other sources confirm this as well (i.e., Nikki R Keddie's "Modern Iran: Roots and Results of Revolution", Asgharzadeh's book, Reza Zia-Ebrahimi, etc.) So, the conclusion from Ansari's chapter that Iranians weren't classified as Aryans is incorrect. Confluencer (talk) 20:54, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Uh yes it does, it doesnt address the source by name but it does just that; says the conclusion is incorrect and states the opposite is true, I never claimed it addresses Lenczowski specifically, I addressed him myself as to why. Yes, there is such thing as greater precedent among sources. Ansari also cites primary source records.

Also I found nowhere in Lenczowski any sources cited for these particular claims of a Reich cabinet decree that Iranians are Aryans, which is in fact “officially” calling Iranians Aryans which Ansari specifically said never happened, nor that they were blanketly not included in Nuremberg racial laws beyond books citing page 160 of his book, which is very different then the vague personal assurances made to the Iranian ambassador and is made clear anyways by Ansari, and his book came out around 80 years ago. You probably didnt even check his book (its on internet archive) since he doesnt even claim that Hitler himself called them Aryans at least in that book, thats a statement made by one of the books that otherwise references him, but cites nothing for that statement. I know how to use the captured German documents section at NARA (most available online now) as well as Bundesarchiv search engine (invenio) where literally, and nowhere among them nor any other book other than Lenczowski’s book and the sources using Lenczowski’s book as their sources can I find any evidence either Hitler declared Iranians are Aryan nor that there was a special decree by the Reich cabinet. It’s fictitious, and no it doesnt appear in any of Hitler’s Table Talks or Heiber and Glantz translation of the Fuhrer HQ conferences or any Fuhrerbefehl or anything like that, nor can I find any secondary source reference beyond Lenczowski and the ones citing him. Its fictitious, and we have a source saying that claim is wrong anyways regardless of calling out Lenczowski by name. If you have such evidence please share it for consideration. Im sure you know how to search for secondary sources and here is the Bundesarchiv[1] and here is the Nara link[2] for you to check for yourself (“search within this record group” and use keywords for the nara search itll bring you right to the text of a given document. Just use the tectonics view for invenio). Everything to do with German Foreign Ministry meetings here.[3]

Also I like how one of your edits you said “reverted to sourced claims” as a blanket statement, yet in not one of the sources cited or otherwise could I find the statement that Hitler promised to return Iranian territory after the conquest of the Soviet Union, for example, nor reference to the Nazis comparing their conquests to Arab conquests as a kind of precedent for Lebensraum. By the way it was specified in one of the sources that the Nazis only changed the classifications of Turks to Europeans if the Turk in question was not considered “coloured” (AKA darker than Europeans), which is now removed by you. Herf also clarified in his 2009 book that the vague assurances were told to the ambassador partly because “Iranian” as a citizenship wasnt excluded per say but those of alien blood were, since it was based off race, he does not say either the Nazis made and official declaration that Iranians as an ethnicity were declared non-Alien/Aryan. And for that matter I added sources altogether which you removed. Funny. Nor did you actually explain why you reinstated the “Eastern Aryans” sub-section when Turks and Iranians are already covered in another section. Why is the same topic addressed twice? 76.164.80.158 (talk) 13:04, 8 July 2024 (UTC)