Talk:2017–2018 Iranian protests

Chinese Reaction

For when editing becomes allowed again we now have a reaction from the Chinese spokesman that can be added to the international reaction sections “China hopes that Iran can maintain stability and achieve development.” Postermon1 09:55, 4 January 2018 (EST)

References

Still ongoing?

I modified the dates to a 'From date, with no 'To' date (since it isn't clear when/if this is over). 'Ongoing' was restored. How long can we continue to treat these as 'ongoing protests'? Pincrete (talk) 10:13, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

It seems that on the ground protests in Iran are for the most part over (e.g. [1]). There are on-going issues regarding detainees who are being held [2], torture [3], and outside solidarity (e.g. [4] [5]).Icewhiz (talk) 10:22, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

I agree that not everything is 'resolved', but that is not quite the same meaning as 'protests ongoing'. Pincrete (talk) 11:00, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

There are many other incidents with unresolved issues which does not mean they are ongoing. Innocents such as September 11 attacks have still new things on after years. I restored the date to Pincrete's version but we should decide on the finish date. --Mhhossein ^talk 18:58, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

I don't think an exact 'finish' is clear yet. We could put a general date like "mid-January" ... or leave blank. Pincrete (talk) 21:00, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

Pincrete: Yeah it is still going kinda. There were protests in Ahvaz yesterday, and in Tehran the 21th etc. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:58, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

Can we have an update?----ZiaLater (talk) 21:53, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

No ongoing coverage, but no official 'end date'. Pincrete (talk) 22:16, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

There are protests ongoing in Khuzstan and Isfahan province now https://twitter.com/MAZANDARA/status/979633696599834624 https://twitter.com/HeshmatAlavi/status/979329832864624640 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.28.170.189 (talk) 09:04, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Follow-on (?) protests

Street violence has been perking up again - for instance - Five Iranian security officers killed at Sufi protest in Tehran, Reuters, 20 Feb 2018. The Dervish protests are probably notable in their own right - the question we should be asking ourselves are whether they should be standalone - or here. Women-led hijab protests are also on-going to an extent - Iranian police arrest 29 for involvement in hijab protests, CNN, 3 Feb 2018 - but here we do have a separate article - Girls of Enghelab Street - and my view is that at least in the beginning they were separate (back in December).Icewhiz (talk) 07:26, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

I recommend creating a separate page since these are not related at all. --Expectant of Light (talk) 15:00, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Isfahan and Khuzestan Protests in MArch and April

Should we not also mention the protests going on in Khuzestan by the Arabs over racism and farmers in Isfahan over lack of pay and water? WHile you could argue that the Arabic ones are unrelated to the ones in this article I don't see how the Isfahan ones are not. Since they are mostly ecomonic based and by the Dari-speaking people who largely protested in January. https://twitter.com/IranNewsUpdate1/status/983311148912136194 (Isfahan protests from today 9/4/18) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.242.189.153 (talk) 13:00, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Sexism

The ayatollahs' love affair with sexism is undeniable.--180.180.130.67 (talk) 12:39, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

IP, you don't understand, it is not a question of whether Iran is sexist or not (most of us would probably agree with you), it is whether sources covering the protests actually describe 'sexism' as a major cause of these protests. AFAIK they don't. Pincrete (talk) 12:46, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Ahmadinejad's arrest or not

Re this in 7th January:

According to a report in Al-Quds Al-Arabi, former president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad may have been arrested in Iran and kept under house arrest with the approval of Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, for "inciting violence", after he criticized the current government of Iran during the protests.

References

The sourcing is not the greatest (also has NY Post quoting A-Q A-A as well as JP above), and surely the arrest would either have been confirmed/disproven by now. Should the text go or be rephrased to reflect that there was no later confirmation? Pincrete (talk) 21:53, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

June protests

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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It is still very unclear as to whether there is any connection between the June protests and the winter ones. I suggest for now we should simply list the June ones (as at present) and look for some text to establish what the connection is (if any). I've altered the infobox text to something more tentative (removed first phase 2nd phase - which is pure OR), because a) it is still unclear whether the events are connected BY SOURCES b) it would be completely misleading to say Dec - present, even if June ones turn out to be linked. Pincrete (talk) 00:41, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

Pincrete: I agree, we don't know if there were any connections. However, both stemmed from economical issues. Anyway, a disruptive editor insists on using "present" as the end date of the protests. --Mhhossein ^talk 12:33, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

I'm not going to take sides on this - nobody at present is coming on to talk, but simply edit warring their own preferred version (it's a pain to watchers like me who don't have a "dog in this fight'). I think ongoing events are sufficiently linked to tentatively include for now, but we should avoid conclusions - especially in the infobox. I would suggest that "From June XX (further protests)", without either putting an end date, nor implying ongoing, would most accurately reflect what is presently known. Pincrete (talk) 12:52, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

My two cents - this article should be about the December-January protests (which lasted around 10+ days - the year straddle is due to this starting end of Dec). The June protests should be a separate article - they are a distinct event.Icewhiz (talk) 13:08, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

@Pincrete: That's not a matter of "preferred version". Some users tend to forge the protest as ongoing. --Mhhossein ^talk 13:21, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Agreed. Make separate pages for them. Let the protesters have two separate pages for online street combat :). --Expectant of Light (talk) 13:22, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

AFAI can see, we don't have RS connecting these to the winter protests AT ALL at present. Icewhiz is probably right here, or AT MOST tentative phrasing until the bigger picture becomes clearer. Pincrete (talk) 16:25, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

• 28th june events are cited to payvand.com (which is clearly not a reliable source) and GTVM92 tends to restore them. --Mhhossein ^talk 08:06, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

@Mhhossein and Pincrete: Shall we act on the consensus to move the June content? Someone also needs to correct the links but I don't know the original sources. @GTVM92: Instead of revert wars correct these non-working links. --Expectant of Light (talk) 10:51, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Balance in photos

GTVM92: you tend to remove the photos used for the sake of neutrality. It's even worse you fail to say why those photos should be removed. --Mhhossein ^talk 12:40, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Again I'm not going to take sides, but some of the 'property' photos are crap - a burnt out motorbike looks pretty much the same whether it spontaneously combusts, or is damaged in a riot - it isn't very informative. Pincrete (talk) 13:02, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the insight, but I'm objecting the very act of complete removal. There are certainly more "informative" photos. --Mhhossein ^talk 13:15, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Who is this guy @GTVM92:? He seems to be dragging the protesters' rage here to this page! lol! I restored photos of pro-government rallies, but he restored them without any explanation! If he doesn't respond to talk page pings, we may need to report him for his disruptive behavior. --Expectant of Light (talk) 13:21, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

He received a warning some months ago. --Mhhossein ^talk 13:24, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Completely unhelpful comments on contributors. --NeilN talk to me 16:20, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

It is clear as daylight that both Mhhossein is a avid supporter of the Islamic Republic, and that he is trying to push his non-neutral POV on this article in order to villainize the protesters (which he has failed to do). Anyone who goes against his POV, will have their edit changed or removed completely. Mhossein is not in a position to talk about neutrality, when he is far from it. More neutral users such as Pincrete should keep a watch over this article. --HistoryofIran (talk) 13:49, 2 July 2018 (UTC) @HistoryofIran: With regards to your accusations here, I must say I support the legitimate grievances of the protestors as per IRI Constitution. The constitution says that the government is responsible for guaranteeing economic well-being of Iranian people and guarantee their freedom of speech within the framework of law. This makes me both pro-IRI and pro-protests because I don't view things in a binary light. I only have problem when protests are not conducted in a peaceful way or when they chant slogans against other articles of the constitution that have been a foundation of their own rights! As for this article though, I believe we have to include both foreign and IRI narratives for balance. For example, IRI state media report on an urgent waterline project aiming to solve Khuzistan drinking water shortage. This must be added to the page. --Expectant of Light (talk) 14:11, 2 July 2018 (UTC) Don't wanna turn this too political or into a forum-ish discussion, but how do you expect protests to be peaceful when the government doesn't respond in a peaceful way? --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:52, 2 July 2018 (UTC) I don't know which party started the violence in this case so can't comment. But I think in general protests can be conducted much more peacefully than what we saw in December protests/riots and the Dervishs' street thuggery. In those cases police exerted a lot of restraint in the beginning and you know about police officers who were killed without anyone killed from the rioters. --Expectant of Light (talk) 14:58, 2 July 2018 (UTC) Well the dervish protests aren't the same as the general Iranian protests atm. The dervishes are a small minority after all with some followers. But I get what you're saying, and I do apologize for being too hasty when mentioning your name. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:01, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

• GTVM92 is adding POV photos to the infobox and removes the damage photos. That makes the photos imbalanced. He communicate only via edit summary and doesn't comment here. --Mhhossein ^talk 08:12, 8 July 2018 (UTC)