Talk:Elon Musk

RfC: Infobox image

Which of the images below should appear on the infobox? elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 16:02, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

The following are images that have been used in the last two years. Options D and G are images that have not been used in the infobox and have been added to elicit discussion. The infobox image should not be changed during the duration of this RfC.

• 
  (Option A; 2018)
• 
  (Option B; 2022)
• 
  (Option C; 2022)
• 
  (Option D; 2023)
• 
  (Option E; 2023)
• 
  (Option F; 2024)
• 
  (Option G; 2021)

elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 16:02, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Survey

• Option C or Option A — Recency is not an absolute requirement for infobox images. Option E has an uncomfortable angle and Option F is too low-quality to be used. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 16:02, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

  The angle in Option E is a standard angle for taking photos. You rotate your body and then look at the camera. If you look at advice for full body photos, they generally advise rotating 45 degrees to the camera. Ergzay (talk) 18:03, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

• Option A - Option C looks sort of odd, and E, F are too low quality. Option A is widely used and is a well-known image of Musk. It has the best lighting too. But maybe we could use a bigger, less cropped version of the photo Wcamp9 (talk) 16:20, 7 September 2024 (UTC) File:Elon Musk Royal Society crop.jpg
• Option A is my preference. I was going to switch to that when I edited the article, but I thought it might be challenged. Svampesky (talk) 16:38, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
• Not option B C or D or F , also unsure about G. Either they are poor quality, or are at angles. Slatersteven (talk) 16:45, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

  So Option A? Wcamp9 (talk) 18:39, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

The Alphabet does not go A B C D F. Slatersteven (talk) 14:44, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure he's saying either A or E. AuroraANovaUma ^-^ (talk) 16:44, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

• Option A or Option B - Both have the best lighting and expressions. C has bad lighting, D depicts him sweating and with an unprofessional facial expression, E could be higher resolution, F is too low resolution, and G is especially unprofessional. That said, please use this higher resolution version of option A instead if that's the one you're going to use. (edit: the picture used on this list was changed to the higher resolution version I recommended) AuroraANovaUma ^-^ (talk) 16:52, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

  Option B has pretty bad lighting as the camera was white balancing for the blue background making him look green. Also his facial expressions look off. Ergzay (talk) 18:10, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

• Four of these are basically the same picture, any of these works as a top photo although in general I would lean towards one of the ones where he is in generic business dress rather than branded stuff because this page covers the whole breadth of the subject's experience and accomplishments, those seem like better pictures for SpaceX or Tesla Inc. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 17:07, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

  And even then, neither of the two are professional images and Option F is low quality. AuroraANovaUma ^-^ (talk) 17:56, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

• Option E — Option A is too old, 6 years old at this point. Option F and Option D make him look bad, additionally Option D has likely copyrighted trademark logos in it. Option B, C, D and F all have him looking away from the camera making them poor options. That remains Option E and Option G as the valid options. Of the two Option G has unkempt hair so I'll go with Option E. Edit: Option F and Option G are both completely out as they are low quality. I forgot to check by clicking on them and they're both full of camera sensor noise so neither is any good. Ergzay (talk) 18:00, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

  Wouldn't the copyrighted logos fall under de minimis? They're not the focal point of the photo; Elon Musk is. AuroraANovaUma ^-^ (talk) 18:03, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

  Yes, but we're arguing degrees here. An image without copyrighted logos (holding everything else equal) is better than one with copyrighted logos. Ergzay (talk) 18:06, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

  I agree and I wasn't saying the image should be used. The image is very unflattering and you can even see some sweat on his face. AuroraANovaUma ^-^ (talk) 18:10, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

  No thats just not true, in some contexts an imagine with a copyrighted logo (holding everything else equal) is better than one one without. This just isn't one of those contexts. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 14:52, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

  Only in some cases would an image with trademarks and copyrighted logos be better to use. This would not be one of them, however we're looking for the best image of Elon to use, and Option D ain't it. It's a pretty unflattering image of him. AuroraANovaUma ^-^ (talk) 14:58, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

  I agree that this isn't one of them and we agree on the unsuitability of the logo shirt pics in this context, I'm just pointing out that your generalized statement that holding everything else equal we prefer images without copyrighted logos isn't true. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 15:32, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

  It's also important to note that a choice of Option A will prompt a lot of editors to try and replace it with newer images given that it's so old. 2018 was two years before covid happened, as a benchmark in people's minds. Ergzay (talk) 18:05, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

  I think that it does not really matter that Option A is old. The image is the most high quality, and I believe that matters more than age. An example is the page for Neil Armstrong, the main image was more than 40 years before his death, and is better compared to the images taken of him later in his life. Wcamp9 (talk) 15:53, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

  That was because the peak of Neil Armstrong's career and what he is most well known for is landing on the moon. This is the same across all pictures of astronauts. Ergzay (talk) 21:08, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

• (invited by the bot) "A" is best. Looks neutral and representative. B & C are bad. "E" is non-typical. The rest are OK. You really should ask everybody to weigh in on every image; otherwise weird things could happen. North8000 (talk) 15:19, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
• ElijahPepe My preference is for Option E. I think we should use one of the photos where he appears prepared for a formal portrait, so not G, F, or D.

Option A is too old, or will soon enough be too old. He looks quite different now than he did then. I agree with the person who said people will keep independently changing it if it is left as Option A.

Option B has him looking away at an odd angle, with branding in the background, and Option C looks strange because of the black suit blending into the black backdrop, and because he is looking away.

Option E does make him look a bit like he's running for political office, but it looks much more like a formal portrait than the others, except for A, and because it is more recent, and he is a living person, it is more accurate and helpful than A. Vsst (talk) 07:29, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Option E is lower quality than Option A Wcamp9 (talk) 18:40, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Yes, you're right on that. And having now had the chance to view them on desktop, I think A is also the more flattering picture by far. E looked a lot better on mobile than it actually appears at higher resolution/larger size, though I feel the opposite is the case for A.

And at the larger size, what I perceived to be a difference caused by the relative age of the photos is less apparent.

More people will view this photo on mobile than on desktop, but perhaps other phone screens might handle it better than mine does, too.

So I have changed my mind on this. Option A is best.

I do suspect it might be possible to hunt down a higher quality version of E, if we were so motivated, though.

Vsst (talk) 20:29, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

• Option A IMO has the best quality. Karol739 (talk) 19:33, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
• Option E Most recent image of him that looks "official" enough. A and C are glazed portraits. QRep2020 (talk) 00:59, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Could you elaborate on what "glazed portraits" means? elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 03:53, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

His eyes appear glazed over in them and the photography resembles what you see in portraiture. Option C is a crisp digital photograph and has less of a stuffy, contrived look to it without being candid. QRep2020 (talk) 17:03, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Option C makes him look bad as he's frowning. Ergzay (talk) 05:26, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Not to mention that it has no contrast AuroraANovaUma ^-^ (talk) 14:05, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

• Option A Has both an adequate camera angle and resolution.Biohistorian15 (talk) 09:51, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
• Option A is fine and then Option E. There's really too many choices presented. These should have been narrowed down before creating a RFC. Nemov (talk) 19:39, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
• Option F as it is the most recent photo and most accurately reflects what the subject looks like at present. TarnishedPath^talk 03:27, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

  Option F is by far the worst option here because it actually does not reflect what the subject looks like. In that image he's bent over with his shirt hanging free which makes him look like he's a doughboy. Ergzay (talk) 05:52, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

• Option E. It is more recent and it is of an acceptable quality. Option A is very old, and Option F is too low quality.Brocade River Poems (She/They) 17:29, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
• Option C or A. I feel like Option E could be misleading as with him standing in front of the American flag, people might assume he was a government official. JSwift49 22:20, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
• Option B with the ranking B > A > D > E > C > G > F, from most to least preferred. I value high resolution and good lighting highly, and Option B looks good in that regard. I don't think the age is very important, as he hasn't changed that much. Paditor (talk) 22:53, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
• Option G. It has him looking into the camera, clearly appears to be a free image, and looks contemporary enough for our purposes. fr33kman 18:06, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
• Option A is the best portrait.--Ortizesp (talk) 12:28, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

• Option G. A good contemporary image of him looking into the camera.Tashmetu (talk) 18:47, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

• Option A. F and G are of relatively poor quality for purposes of a lede image. B and D are needlessly unflattering depictions of him; the former depicts him frowning and looks like he hasn't bathed while his facial expression in the latter makes him look chimp-like. C has a dark background which obscures the outline of his head. While E is a better choice than most of the above mentioned, the way it is framed (particularly with the flag in the background) makes him look like an elected official which he is not; hence my opposition to it. Emiya1980 (talk) 23:38, 18 September 2024 (UTC)
• Option B It is the best quality one that is also recent. A is too old. It doesn't matter that it is at an angle, many portraits on infoboxes don't look straight into the camera.
• Option A then E Highest quality photograph, and one in which is he looking clearly at the camera. He does look particularly different from 2018 to current day so it is still approriate to use. E is slightly lower quality but it still taken at a level angle and he is looking at the camera.  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 22:40, 1 October 2024 (UTC)
• Option C, E, or F Those are the best three images, IMO. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 06:37, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
• Option E. A is too old, B is alright, C doesn't have good contrast, D has poor lighting, F and G are a bit blurry. Cortador (talk) 07:50, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

• @Slatersteven, Ergzay, QRep2020, Svampesky, Alexysun, and Wcamp9: Notifying relevant editors. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 16:07, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
• @ElijahPepe FYI, Option D was in fact just added to the page. I was the one who reverted it. Ergzay (talk) 18:18, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
• It feels like there's very little consensus on this. I feel like outside mediation will end up being needed to prune out some of the photos and re-run the discussion. Ergzay (talk) 05:28, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Nationality

Every other person on Wiki begins with the statement of the individual’s nationality. Why is this not mentioned in the first line? 2604:3D09:CF75:3E00:B80E:E499:A920:B114 (talk) 14:12, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

See Talk:Elon Musk/FAQ. – Muboshgu (talk) 14:40, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

Every immigrant who takes the Oath of Citizenship renounces any allegiance to their former countries. Therefore they cannot claim dual citizenship. The only way to be a dual citizen is by being a U.S citizen FIRST. Therefore Musk cannot be a dual citizen. 76.8.147.120 (talk) 14:37, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

According to whom? Slatersteven (talk) 14:42, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

I don't know the answer to the question but the answer should be somewhere on this page: United_States_nationality_law 173.222.1.184 (talk) 23:18, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Elon Musk X (fka Twitter) Ownership "Controversial"

"His ownership of Twitter has been controversial because of the layoffs of large numbers of employees, an increase in hate speech, misinformation and disinformation posts on the website, and changes to Twitter Blue verification."

This opinion reads as if written by a former Twitter employee who lost their role with said employer. Some would hold there is no controversy in reducing workforce in a bloated company.

To claim "an increase in hate speech, misinformation and disinformation" demands a citation, otherwise it is mere speculation.

In contrast to the thought of the individual who wrote these initial remarks, one could argue Mr. Musk's ownership of X (fka Twitter) has been welcomed by those who support free speech. d5f61b1c@opayq.com (talk) 20:01, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

Citations not required per MOS:LEADCITE as it's a broad WP:DUE summary of the child article Twitter under Elon Musk that is summarised in this article. Being welcomed by those who support free speech is not due by comparison. CNC (talk) 14:49, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Even if it were true, that would still mean some didn't agree with it, thus there was a controversy. Slatersteven (talk) 14:52, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Page sorely needs to be updated. Fear of irritating Musk, and the MAGA cult, shouldn't play a role here

With Musk now a full-throated supporter of Trump and his many lies and conspiracy theories, this page should reflect as much in the lead. The lead should now include "rightwing activist" and "conspiracist". He's not much different than Tucker Carlson or even Dinesh D'Souza. And it is well documented and supported by the consensus of reputable sources in the press about Elon's "conspiracist" and "rightwing activism". He isn't hiding it, and is proud of his full-throated support of Trumpism. He even updated his own Twitter page brazenly with a MAGA hat, and says as much. If wikipedia is truly about its mission, then we are failing our readers by not honestly reflecting what is well documented in the news here. If not now, then when? EmmaRoydes (talk) 20:19, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Can you provide some examples of the independent notable sources that describe Musk as such? That would help justify the inclusion. QRep2020 (talk) 06:35, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

His involvement in the current campaign should be a separate section, now that he is in total support mode. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:645:C601:6010:99B0:F55C:4E2D:A503 (talk) 05:24, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Elon Musk Is Accused of Insider Trading by Investors in Dogecoin Lawsuit

Musk was building up the cryptocurrency Dodge coin to have people make money from the coin and dump it into Tesla to have the stock rise and fund Tesla even more. Musk sold about $124 million of Dodgecoin causing price manipulation. A “deliberate course of carnival barking, market manipulation and insider trading”. This helped many customers of Robinhood and other trading platforms make money from this but also lose a significant amount too when it was supposed to boom in 2021 during the NBC Saturday Night Live event, many people sold at that time causing it to crash significantly and struggle to come back up ever since. Even though he is the richest billionaire in the world he should have had some common sense not to continuously keep promoting the crypto currency and not expect consequences… Elon was facing a class action lawsuit against him for insider trading and manipulation. After a legal victory in a Dogecoin lawsuit, "Elon Musk reaffirmed that Tesla would bring back Dogecoin payments for merchandise. Among others, these key events highlight the strong correlation between Tesla announcements and Dogecoin price movements, largely influenced by Musk’s personal support of the cryptocurrency.

Amezzo27 (talk) 03:07, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 October 2024

Could you please let me edit, i am his biggest fan and i could put a lot of interesting information about him and all his discoveries Pepito. Gigachat (talk) 08:50, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

You need to have extended confirmed status before you can edit this page. That status is granted automatically once your account has existed for at least 30 days and has made at least 500 edits. In the meantime, you can make requests here giving details of exactly what changes you wish to be made. Rosbif73 (talk) 09:59, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Edit requests are for asking us to make edits, so what edit do you wish to make? Slatersteven (talk) 10:05, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 October 2024

In section Public Perception, end of first paragraph, change Ashley to Ashlee. Source: https://www.ashleevance.com/ BrianBirmingham (talk) 15:38, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

 Done , thanks! Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 15:43, 16 October 2024 (UTC)