Talk:Wilhelm Reich

Archive 1

Cloudbuster

It may be a minor point but I'm not clear from the text - If "designed" - was it built? The photo indicates so of course but was it tested - Did it work in any real sense of the word? Rrose Selavy

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Why no pictures of Reich in the article? I would like to know what he looked like. Anon.

Technical:

Why does on top of this discussion page the following link:

To participate, help improve this article or visit the project page for ...

point to Chemistry?

--David Moerike 17:23, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Someone probably copied the chemistry template and forgot to change it to psychology. I've fixed it. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 19:30, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Einstein episode overstated

In my opinion the episode of the meeting between Reich and Einstein is overstated in the article. Above all, the only source we have on it is the account of Reich, given in the brochure of 1953 The Einstein Affaire, and the letters reproduced therein. No Einstein biographer was able to give additional information on it.

Therefore I'd suggest to reduce the chapter to the solid facts and add it just as a paragraph to the preceding chapter where it belongs.

The text could be as follows (with improvements of English grammar, if necessary):

In 1940, Reich wrote to Albert Einstein saying he had a scientific discovery he wanted to discuss, and on January 13, 1941, he went to visit Einstein in Princeton. Einstein agreed to test the orgone accumulator. Reich supplied the device during their second meeting, and Einstein performed the experiment in his basement, which involved taking the temperature atop, inside, and near the device. He also stripped the device down to its Faraday cage to compare temperatures. Over the course of a week, in both cases, Einstein observed a rise in temperature, and confirmed Reich's finding. However, contrary to Reich who took this as experimentum crucis for the existence of a primordial cosmic energy he had called "orgone", Einstein interpreted the phenomenon simply as resulting from thermal convection currents.

This is the whole story. Reich's later speculations of an influence of Leopold Infeld on Einsteins judgment (because Infeld went to Stalinist Poland after the war) have never been verified.

If there will be no argumentative objection within the next days I'll implant this change.

--Nescio* 08:45, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

It's understated if anything. The source is the Einstein-Reich correspondence and it's a very telling episode in Reich's life. The biography you yourself recommended devotes quite a bit of space to it. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 00:19, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Sharaf, as you should know, devotes not even 1 chapter out of 32, not even 5 pages out of 500, to this episode. It may be telling biographically, but not as a scientific "Einstein experiment". See Einstein's letter to Reich from 7 Feb 1941 about what really happened in his home, the only and most pertinent source. And there is no need to list the bulk of fringe science literature pertaining to it.

--Nescio* 16:24, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Hawkwind

Why does the article open with a "Hawkwind" redirect? There are many other more prolific artists (writers, musicians etc) who have explored WR's ideas. It seems ultimately unnecessary, irrelevant and selfish to open the Reich article in this manner. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.148.84.140 (talk • contribs)

I agree. I've removed it. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 03:51, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Hawkwind was one of, if not, the first popular band to write and preform a song about Reich, that's why.

Revert War

SlimVirgin has reverted MY contributions three times to this article regarding the minor wording over 1 sentence.

As the article states, this man in the prime of his career:

In 1947, following a series of critical articles about orgone in The New Republic and Harper's, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) began an investigation into his claims, and won an injunction against the interstate sale of orgone accumulators. Charged with contempt of court for violating the injunction, Reich insisted on conducting his own defense, which involved sending the judge all his books to read. He was sentenced to two years in prison, and in August 1956, several tons of his publications were burned by the FDA. [5][1] He died of heart failure in jail just over a year later, days before he was due to apply for parole. [7]

Can someone else review the two wordings? The lead intro is POV, considering all things. Thanks.Kiyosaki 01:25, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

The lead is balanced, and you're here only because you stalked me here, not because you're familiar with the subject.

The lead makes clear that he was a respected analyst, a controversial figure, regarded by some as having gone astray, but admired by others, then subjected to an investigation, book burning and jail. He is a complex figure and the lead reflects that complexity. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 01:29, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Please do not make personal attacks. The lead is far from NPOV and criticism should be mentioned in the lead, especially when he later served time in prison. I think my wording is more clear and neutral.Kiyosaki 19:19, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

A long standing revert war

About a year ago user:Slim Virgin started a revert war against me which is still going on.

For anyone interested this are the links of the discussions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wilhelm_Reich/archive1#.22intro_restored.22

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wilhelm_Reich/archive1#Lead

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wilhelm_Reich/archive1#FYI_from_a_psychology_professional

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wilhelm_Reich&action=edit&section=3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_mediation/Wilhelm_Reich#Question_on_state_of_mediation

I'd like to see other users giving their opinions here.

--Nescio* 10:56, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Inappropriate structure of the article (moved from subpage)

There are numerous errors in details of the article; they cannot be listed here. Some of them are already exposed in the talk page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wilhelm_Reich&action=edit&section=6

Still more important is the inappropriateness of the structure of the article:

• 1 Early life
• 2 His work
• 2.1 Early career in Germany
• 2.2 The bion experiments
• 2.3 T-bacilli
• 2.4 Orgone accumulators and cloudbusters
• 2.5 Orgone experiment with Einstein
• 3 Controversy
• 3.1 The Brady article and the FDA
• 3.2 Imprisonment and death
• 4 Status of his work
• 5 Reich in popular culture
• 6 Notes
• 7 Reich's work
• 8 Further reading

Proposal of a new structure of the article

I'd suggest instead a rough structure as follows:

• 1 Early Life
• 2 Career as Psychoanalyst
• 2.1 Orgastic Potency
• 2.2 Character Analysis
• 2.3 Expulsion from Psychoanalysis
• 3 From Politics to Antipolitics
• 3.1 Prophylaxis of Neuroses
• 3.2 Freudomarxism
• 3.3 Sexpol
• 3.4 Work Democracy
• 3.5 "The Children of the Future"
• 4 From Psychoanalysis to Orgonomy
• 4.1 Vegetotherapy
• 4.2 Bion Research [incl. t-bacilli]
• 4.3 The Discovery of the Orgone
• 5 Orgonomy
• 5.1 The Orgone Accumulator [incl. "Einstein Affair"]
• 5.2 Cancer Biopathy
• 5.3 Orgone Physics and conventional Physics [incl. cloud busting]
• 6 "Conspiracy" [this is the title of a documentary volume Reich issued about the actions of FDA etc. against him]
• 6.1 Articles in New Republic
• 6.2 Injunction
• 6.3 Trial, imprisonment, death
• 7 Status of Reich's work today
• 8 Reich in popular culture
• 9 Notes
• 10 Writings
• 10.1 by Reich
• 10.2 about Reich
• 11 External Links

--Nescio* 21:22, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Nescio, do not remove properly referenced, relevant material. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 17:14, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Anybody around there who cares about the Reich article ?

For several months now user:Slim Virgin carries on an edit war against me.

Its history can be studied here (links to archive):

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wilhelm_Reich&action=edit&section=6

For some weeks it is in a mediation procedure which does not seem to arrive at a solution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_mediation/Wilhelm_Reich

The trouble is that I have to argue with a person who on the one hand obviously (and admittedly) has only a quite limited familiarity with the topic and on the other hand is determined to write this article alone resp. as the master author. Most of my corrections, beginning at May 30 this year, of even grave errors were answered by a revert. The quality of her replies to my queries you can see at the talk page, continued at the mediation page.

Over nearly six months there was, besides the mediator, only one person who interferred with a long statement.

Is there nobody else who has an interest in the improvement of this IMO utterly poor state of the article ?

--Nescio* 14:11, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I was in the process of improving it, Nescio, but you've put a stop to that work, so we're now in mediation, where you're currently also turning down the suggestion of the mediator. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 02:30, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Mediation is still going on

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_mediation/Wilhelm_Reich

--Nescio* 20:33, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Why revert a request for citation for the Frank Zappa reference?

Twice I've added in a request for citation for the declarative sentence: "Frank Zappa was also influenced by Reich's work." Twice it has been reverted. May I inquire what is the basis for this reversion? If a citation is not forthcoming, then this is OR and should be removed. Thoughts? Therefore 13:59, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• In the history of the article, I cannot find an edit by you. Could you provide the diff of the request for citation being removed? --דניאל - Danielrocks123 ^contribs 18:08, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

My two entries:

13:07, 13 June 2006 (hist) (diff) Wilhelm Reich (Requesting citation for statement that Wilhelm Reich influenced Frank Zappa directly.)

20:50, 15 June 2006 (hist) (diff) Wilhelm Reich (Citation needed for Zappa reference)

Thanks -- Therefore 08:44, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Delete Frank Zappa reference as uncited OR

Does anyone object if I delete the Frank Zappa reference: "Frank Zappa was also influenced by Reich's work?" I can find no confirmation. Therefore 15:57, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Go for it. :-) SlimVirgin ^(talk) 16:05, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

This is a deletion out of sheer laziness and incompetence. It took me all of 5 minutes to find a reference for this. The time you spend deleting could be spent confirming, but hey, why bother, you don't CARE about the subject. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.161.77.227 (talk) 08:20, March 16, 2007 (UTC)

Well, since Wikipedia's editors cannot all be equally consumed by the topic of all articles they contribute to, there is the requirement that when documentation is solicited and not found, any statements that are questioned may be removed. Fortunately, other editors again do have this zest and save important information from becoming lost. __meco 19:13, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Seeing that the information you found has not reached the rest of us, and thus the Frank Zappa information has not yet been restored, perhaps you could provide us with a references to what you found? __meco 19:15, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Picture of Wilhelm Reich

This article contains no picture of the subject. A Google Image Search revealed a lot of photographs of Reich. But I am not able to understand which is copyrighted & which is not. Can anyone help? TathD 14:38, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

I see someone has added one, and also uploaded it to the Commons, where it says it's a free image. I'm wondering how we know this, given that the tag says the author is unknown. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 19:00, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I uploaded it from a web site that publishes all its material under GFDL. There are URLs on the image page documenting this. __meco 19:07, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

But do you know that they own the copyright? They can't release something they don't own, or that wasn't released elsewhere. Some of these websites don't check their material very carefully, or at all. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 19:11, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I figured this to be their problem. Of course if we investigate this we may find that they make a claim which is untrue. I'm not sure that we need to do this. This is, by the way, a photograph that seems to be rather widely diseminated. __meco 19:19, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I think it's our problem. We don't have to investigate every claim, but we do need reason to believe an image has been released, and we currently have none. The website doesn't even say explicitly that this image is free. It has already been removed from this article as a fair-use that is easily replaceable. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 19:21, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I wrote to the Reich musuem a few weeks ago asking for an image, but they didn't respond. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 19:22, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Reich papers to be unsealed in 2007?

In the end of this "re-enactment" video there is a mention that Reich stated in his will that his unpublished papers were to be unsealed in 2007, 50 years after his death. Does anyone else have any information about this? When it has or will happen and the like? Thank you.

Youtube link to video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=8L3tKddZFic —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.132.141.165 (talk) 19:26, 22 April 2007 (UTC).

Corrington stuff should be better presented

I originally entered the following on April 16:

Theologian Robert S. Corrington also emphasizes Reich's unusual thinking power in his 2003 Reich biography. He had an almost unparallelled ability to synthesize knowledge from vastly diverging fields "simultaneously maintaining several seemingly incompatible conceptual horizons in one expanding categorial and phenomenological space, while also making continual reconstruction and reconfigurations that correspond to an expanding phenomenal data field.". Corrington asserts that while Freud at best could work out one or two categorial horizons simultaneously, "Reich [...] could hold a number of horizons in his mind while reshaping each one under the creative pressure of the others, [...]producing a rich skein from the game stragies of (1) transformed psychoanalysis, (2) cultural anthropology, (3) economics, (4) bioenergetics, (5) psychopathology, (6) sociology, and (7) ethics."

This was severely trimmed to the point, I feel, that the significant elements got lost in the process. Perhaps this segment is too long for it to be in the introduction, however, I'd like a version of this that is closer to my original one than the current bland mention to appear somewhere in the article. __meco 23:18, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Einstein and orgone

The following statement in the article appears inaccurate. "Einstein observed a rise in temperature, and confirmed Reich's finding.[32] Reich concluded that the heat was the result of a novel form of energy—orgone energy—that had accumulated inside the Faraday cage. However, one of Einstein's colleagues at Princeton interpreted the phenomenon as resulting from thermal convection currents. Einstein concurred that the experiment could be explained by convection." This text erroneously suggests that Einstein first nodded and then changed his mind after discussing the issue with a colleague. In fact Einstein addresses the issue in his letter to Reich of February 7th, 1941. Describing his attempt to verify Reich's claims, Einstein writes that the "box-thermometer showed regularly a temperature of about 0.3-0.4 higher then the one suspended freely", therefore confirming the raise in temperature observed by Reich. Right after that, however, in the same letter, Einstein writes "One of my assistants now drew my attention to the fact that in the room (...) the temperature on the floor is always lower than the one on the celing". Starting from that, Einstein describes how he modified the experimental setting and, on the basis of what he observed, reached a conclusion:"Through these experiments I regard the matter as completely solved". Hence the current text in the article is misleading and should be modified. First, it was Einstein's assistant (and not "one of Einstein's colleagues at Princeton") who made the first crucial remark, second and most important, it was Einstein himself who, after modifying the experimental procedure, came to the conclusion that settled the problem for him. Einstein's letter is published (both in the original German and in the English translation which I quoted) in "The Einstein Affair", Orgone Institute Press, 1953. Stammer 13:18, 11 June 2007 (UTC)