User talk:CeltBrowne

Patrick McGrath (Irish Republican)

Hello. You made great changes to Eoin McNamee page and I wonder if you could take a look at draft page of Patrick McGrath. Thanks.

• @Palisades1: I'd suggest taking contents from your intro and putting them into the body of the article. The intro is meant to summerise the contents of the article rather than introduce new information. Also when referencing websites, you might want to take a look at Template:Cite web. - CeltBrowne (talk) 19:35, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks very much. Ive taken your suggestions and made changes . Ive also Tagged the article to "Irish Republicanism" in hopes that it might get a quicker review (it was submitted several months ago). Again, thanks.Palisades1 (talk) 14:46, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Hello. Well after three months my draft article on Patrick McGrath (Irish Republican) was declined. Some good suggestions were offered and I've incorporated them and resubmitted the article. If you have a chance can you take a look at the revised article? I appreciate it. Palisades1 (talk) 17:21, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

Irish Soviets

Irish Soviets is a really nice and informative article. Just thought I would tell you that.80.111.232.116 (talk) 19:28, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Poole's Land

Hello! Your submission of Poole's Land at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! CMD (talk) 11:56, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Please see new note on your DYK nomination. Yoninah (talk) 23:15, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

DYK for Poole's Land

On 23 July 2020, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Poole's Land, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the town of Tofino on Vancouver Island was host to a hippie commune called Poole's Land where residents could exchange their labour for accommodation and drugs? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Poole's Land. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Poole's Land), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:02, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Invitation

Hello, CeltBrowne! I saw you recently edited a page related to the Green party and green politics. There is a WikiProject that has been formed - WikiProject Green Politics and I thought this might be something you'd be interested in joining! So please head on over to the project page and take a look! Thanks for your time.

Me-123567-Me (talk) 02:17, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Sean Dunne

I know you are interested in articles on socialists so I just wanted to let you know that this article had been confined entirely to his parliamentary career with no mention of his trade union activity. Because he is in the news this weekend (featured in the Mother Jones Festival) I have filled that gap. If you go to reference 5 you will see a photo. I don't know if it is available for uploading. It looks to me as if it is an old newspaper photo. Also, you may be interested to know that smirkybec recently uploaded an article on Kay Keohane-O'Riordan , wife of Michael O' Riordan. Aineireland (talk) 20:02, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

@Aineireland: I'm interested in people of all political strains, its just that often times those on the left have more dramatic backstories that make them interesting to write about. I might give Dunne a look when I get a chance. CeltBrowne (talk) 22:32, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

Paddy Holohan

Cheers for that fix. Not sure exactly how I ended up changing "Sinn Féin" to "Iéin" (suspect it was an error involving Ctrl+F) but glad it was spotted! ser! (chat to me - see my edits) 20:04, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Ireland Wikiproject

Welcome to the Ireland WikiProject. Hopefully you have a good time, start many new articles and can contribute lots to the existing ones as we need that. Cheers ww2censor (talk) 09:36, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

John_Joe_McGirl.jpg

Can you upload this image to Wikimedia Commons please? This will wnble it to appear on Wikidata!Ériugena (talk) 21:26, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

@Ériugena: As a non-free image, it can't be uploaded to the Commons. CeltBrowne (talk) 00:47, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

Richard O'Carroll

Thanks for bringing much needed balance to this entry.CanK9 (talk) 03:20, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Photos for Irish people pages

Hi you have helped me in the past and I'd appreciate another assist.

I've been working on the last 3 Irish hunger strikers (who died as a result of hunger strikes) that dont have pages. I have alot of difficulty inserting images in the pages - I understand copyright issues but I seem to spend alot of time working on inserting a photo and failing.

Of the 3 pages one has just been approved: Andy O'Sullivan (Irish Republican). A good photo of him exists on Find a Grave.com.

There is also alot of photos of another draft page for: Jack McNella.

I cant find photos of the last draft page: Joe Whitty. I also have a draft page for another Irish Republican Seamus Woods.

Any help/advice is appreciated. Thanks Palisades1 (talk) 13:11, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

@Palisades1: So, the easiest way to get an image of a person on an article is the following method. If someone is dead, you're allowed upload a fair use image of them if they already have an article. While on desktop, go to the article of the person you'd like to upload an image of and scroll over to the left side of the page, and click "upload file" in the "contribute" section. From there, click "Upload a non-free file". Follow the onscreen instructions and fill out Step 1 and Step 2. When you get to step 3, click "This is a copyrighted, non-free work, but I believe it is Fair Use". For the rationale, select "This is an historic portrait of a person no longer alive." Fill out all the sections with red asterisks beside them. For "Please explain why a free alternative to this image cannot be found", state that you can't find a free alternative. For "Please explain why you are confident that our use of the file will not harm any commercial opportunities of its owner", state that the use of the image will be purely informational. And for "In view of this, please explain how the use of this file will be minimal", state that the image will only be used to visually identify the subject of the article.

If you've correctly filled out all the required sections, the system will upload your file and you can insert the filename into the article to make it appear.

It's very daunting to fill out the non-free upload form the first time you do it, but once you get the hang of it it's a breeze, because more or less just writing the same thing every single time.

I don't think you can upload non-free files to draft articles, but you should be able to for any article that's already live.

CeltBrowne (talk) 17:54, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks very much. I would have never figured out the process. The old saying is true: A picture is worth a thousand words. Cheers. Palisades1 (talk) 00:20, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Tadhg Barry

I see you created this article just over 2 yrs ago. Just thought you might like to know that a biography of him has just been published Utter Disloyalist Tadhg Barry and the Irish Revolution by Donal Ó Drisceoil , published by Mercier Press. Aineireland (talk) 22:40, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

@Aineireland: Thanks for the update CeltBrowne (talk) 01:37, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 28

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Thomas Curley (Wisconsin general), you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Battle of Chattanooga.

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Speedy deletion nomination of File:Buddy Rogers.jpg

A tag has been placed on File:Buddy Rogers.jpg requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section F7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a non-free file from a commercial source (e.g. Associated Press, Getty Images), where the file itself is not the subject of sourced commentary. If you can explain why the file can be used under the fair use guidelines, please add the appropriate fair use tag and rationale.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Whpq (talk) 03:41, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

Political party module

Hi, I see now why you moved the conversation into the archive. I'm sure there's a good reason for the change, I missed any such discussion of this, and I suspect many of the Irish contributors did. It's somewhat unsatisfactory that we have to request changes rather than be able to make them ourselves given our particular knowledge as Irish contributors, but we'll take it from here I suppose! Iveagh Gardens (talk) 19:24, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

Timothy John Dacey

Hello. Your recent edits on Timothy Deasy in the 1874, 1875, and 1876 Massachusetts legislature refer not to Deasy but to someone called Timothy John Dacey (1849-1887) of Boston.[1][2][3] Would you please correct the error? Many thanks. -- M2545 (talk) 11:14, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

@M2545: I've undone those edits now. My confusion arose as some sources suggest that he (Timothy John Deasy) and Timothy John Dacey are one and the same. I'm still confused as to why Deasy is not listed separately in articles such as 1874 Massachusetts legislature when his biography points in that direction, but I'm not American, so I'm not really familiar with the exact nature of state legislatures in the US and do what role he had exactly.

@CeltBrowne:. I've often gone down a similar path-- it is easy to mix up names. Thanks for those edits! As for Deasy: the Massachusetts State Library offers a reference service that might help to clarify his story: https://www.mass.gov/ask-a-librarian. Cheers. -- M2545 (talk) 16:39, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for January 8

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Declan Costello, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Michael O'Leary, Desmond Fitzgerald and John Healy.

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DYK for 2021 Dublin Bay South by-election

On 14 January 2022, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article 2021 Dublin Bay South by-election, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that at the 2021 Dublin Bay South by-election, voters were asked to bring their own pen or pencil? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/2021 Dublin Bay South by-election. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, 2021 Dublin Bay South by-election), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

valereee (talk) 00:03, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

DYK for Declan Costello

On 29 January 2022, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Declan Costello, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Jackie Kennedy teased former love interest Declan Costello that a 1955 double date involving them and their spouses had almost broken up the Kennedys' marriage? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Declan Costello. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Declan Costello), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

valereee (talk) 12:02, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

Re: Ella Young

I reverted your edit to Ella Young, which removed a long standing non-free image with accurate and specific copyright information. I can see no evidence for the claim that the new image you added is free and in the public domain. If memory serves, this might be a photograph by Ansel Adams or some other photographer. I’m more curious why you believe the image you added is free and in the public domain. Viriditas (talk) 21:52, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

So I haven't used this license much before, but it is my understanding that PD-US-no notice covers photographs published in the US between 1927 and 1977 without an explicit copyright notice, regardless if the photographer is known or not. As Young died in 1956, I thought the photograph would fall into this time frame. CeltBrowne (talk) 21:58, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply. I understand your argument, but there are several issues with it. For example, I am assuming you are making this argument because you or someone else uploaded the image to a blog in 2011 without a copyright notice? That doesn’t make any sense to me. We know, for example, that bloggers upload uncredited images all the time without copyright notices. That doesn’t change the license. Maybe I’m missing another assumption you are making? I think it would be more instructive for you to source the original image. When I did research on Ella Young many years ago, I believe the image you uploaded came up as copyrighted, if memory serves correct. Also, a Google reverse image search on my end shows nothing, but I’m currently on mobile which has issues, so if you could do a comprehensive reverse image search that would help. In any case, I’ve seen this image before, and I’m fairly certain it has been published previously with a copyright. Viriditas (talk) 22:04, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

For example, I am assuming you are making this argument because you or someone else uploaded the image to a blog in 2011 without a copyright notice?

No, this is not correct/not what I'm saying. PD-US-No Notice is for photos that the photographer published between 1927 and 1977 without including an explicit copyright notice accompanying the work such as a © symbol and the name of the author. CeltBrowne (talk) 16:29, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

Okay, but my question remains: how do you know the photo was published without an explicit copyright notice? Most of these photos were lifted from previously published sources and added to blogs and websites, for example. Take the Weston photo, for example, which appears below your preferred image on the same blog. It was published with a copyright notice in 1966. Viriditas (talk) 09:27, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

Update: I’m not sure, but my guess is that this is a photo from the famous set of Ansel Adams images taken in 1929, in either Santa Fe or Taos, New Mexico. The LOC claims they are copyrighted ("With the exception of the Manzanar War Relocation Center Photographs, Ansel Adams's photographs are protected by copyright. Privacy and publicity rights may apply") but I’m not sure if this applies to this set or not. As you can see on the Ansel Adams page, all of the photos that are used there have explicit exceptions. Then again, this might not be a photo by Ansel Adams. There was one other photographer on the trip with them to New Mexico in 1929, but their name escapes me at the moment. I believe it was a woman. Viriditas (talk) 22:30, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

NPOV on Daniel Garcia (wrestler), BLP policy

Please observe the WP:BLP policy and stop including cherry-picked, undue content from a podcast. You re-added that Chris Jericho and Edge's degree prompted Garcia's pursuit of it without demonstrating that this claim is highlighted in a reliable secondary source. It is inappropriate to rely on your editorial bias to determine that it is a unique detail from hearing Garcia speak for an hour. Furthermore, not only is Jericho being "simply sympathetic to the story" undue, but it reads irrelevant and promotional. You also re-added that Garcia "was asleep in the back of the car", which the Wrestling Inc transcript supported. Whether this is true or not, we should not give weight to information that only unreliable sources publish.

I noticed that our prior interaction involved you claiming BRD and that you've also pointed to it in recent disputes. Keep in mind that an exemption applies when removing BLP violations, so reincluding them is particularly improper. BRD outright says that "you must not restore your bold edit", but that's a different discussion. I'm not suggesting that these other disputes involved violations; I'm merely saying you should recognize what constitutes a BLP violation regardless of whether others refer to the policy when removing material. Thanks. KyleJoan^talk 04:14, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Hello KyleJoan

I really didn't think the original edit was or would be controversial, but when you reverted it, I did in fact take on board what you said and I thought when restoring I was complying with your request for the edit to be more thoroughly sourced.

You re-added that Chris Jericho and Edge's degree prompted Garcia's pursuit of it without demonstrating that this claim is highlighted in a reliable secondary source.

To be clear, are you asking me to provide sources that Jericho and Edge completed communications degrees, or a secondary source demonstrates that Garcia made the decision based on Jericho and Edge? Because if it's the latter, who else but Garcia is an authority on his own decision making? It would seem like an uncontroversial claim where a primary source would be sufficient.

Furthermore, not only is Jericho being "simply sympathetic to the story" undue, but it reads irrelevant and promotional.

With that language, I'm simply trying to establish that Jericho was not aware/did not know who Garcia was at that moment in time, least the reader mistakenly assume it was because of the relationship they would develop later chronologically. If the phrase "simply sympathetic to the story" comes off as too flowery, can you please suggest another way to express that Jericho donated without knowledge of who Garcia was? The claim that "prominent wrestlers" donated to the fund was supported by one of the additional sources I included by-the-way.

You also re-added that Garcia "was asleep in the back of the car", which the Wrestling Inc transcript supported. Whether this is true or not, we should not give weight to information that only unreliable sources publish.

If this piece of information is removed, I don't care, it's not something I care to die on a hill for. I would think it's a rather uncontroversial claim, and a claim that only one of the 4 people in the car could ever confirm, so I would have thought a primary source would have been sufficient. CeltBrowne (talk) 08:35, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Which source supports "prominent wrestlers" donated to the fund? That claim aside, again, if these are details that you believed were unique from listening to the podcast and not what secondary sources highlight, then (controversial or not) they violate NPOV and BLP. On top of that, we also have WP:RSPRIMARY as a guideline, and it says, "All interpretive claims, analyses, or synthetic claims about primary sources must be referenced to a secondary source, rather than original analysis of the primary-source material by Wikipedia editors." KyleJoan^talk 09:00, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Okay, so reading WP:RSPRIMARY, you seemed to have skipped over a important line just before what you previously quoted to me:

Although specific facts may be taken from primary sources, secondary sources that present the same material are preferred.

You seem to have some idea that editors cannot add any information that is not already discussed by a secondary source. But as WP:RSPRIMARY goes on to clarify, this relates only to All interpretive claims, analyses, or synthetic claims.

WP:PRIMARY goes on to give some examples of what is allowed:

For example, an article about a musician may cite discographies and track listings published by the record label, and an article about a novel may cite passages to describe the plot, but any interpretation needs a secondary source.

So, taking this forward

I could add "John stated he was in New York at the time, and witnessed the 9/11 attacks" to an article about John, and could use only a primary source to support that. A secondary source to further support that would be preferred, but it's still allowed. Here, I'm stating a fact that John was in New York on 9/11, not analyses.

What would be incorrect for me to do would be to write: "John stated he was in New York at the time, and witnessed the 9/11 attacks. This may explain PTSD-like behaviour later in life." The second sentence would be an example of "Interpretive claims, analyses, or synthetic claims". Even if I had secondary sources which suggested John was engaging in PTSD-like behaviour, unless those secondary sources themselves linked it back to 9/11, I'm engaging in "Interpretive claims, analyses, or synthetic claims".

So, taking all that forward, I believe that

Garcia was asleep in the back of the car could be included on a primary source alone.

Garcia choose to do communications because Jericho and Edge did could be included on a primary source alone.

Jericho did not know who Garcia was at the time could be included on a primary source alone.

Now, if we were to be extra-cautious, these would be written as

Garcia stated he was asleep in the back of the car

Garcia stated that he choose to do communications because Jericho and Edge did

Jericho stated that he did not know who Garcia was at the time

Because it is certainly factual that they made the statements.

Furthermore, what I'm saying is supported by WP:ABOUTSELF, which makes clear that Self-published and questionable sources may be used as sources of information about themselves. Garcia is discussing himself, Jericho is discussing himself in the pieces of information I'm seeking to include.

I'm happy to rework the wording of Jericho's motive to donate to the fund that supported Garcia and the 3 others, but the content of the rest of the edit was functionally fine to include. CeltBrowne (talk) 09:58, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Even if it is verifiable that Garcia stated he was asleep in the back of the car, so what? He was in the car. He was injured. Should we do a deep dive to find out which side of the car he was on and include that? The make and model as well, perhaps?

The claim that Garcia stated that he choose to do communications because Jericho and Edge did is the most exceptional of the three. Again, where is the secondary source coverage? Why should Wikipedia assign this claim more weight than secondary sources do (i.e., none)?

Writing that Jericho stated that he did not know who Garcia was at the time so that readers do not mistakenly assume it was because of the relationship they would develop later chronologically is not our responsibility. We don't improve the project when we use our editorial bias to stretch out primary sources as far as they can go to fill in (what we determine as) gaps in coverage with (I'll use this word again) undue content.

The three fail criterion number 1 of ABOUTSELF, as they are exceptional claims. Judging by your insistence that the support of primary sources is sufficient to include them, they seem "apparently important". So why are they "not covered by multiple mainstream sources"? The examples listed as part of PRIMARY show content that would be transplanted verbatim (i.e., album and song titles, passages). What we have here isn't comparable to those unless you're pulling direct quotes from the podcast.

Finally, none of this changes the fact that you still have not addressed how your proposed content adhere to BLP and NPOV. I stand by my reverts, so you're free to bring this to Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard if you'd like. KyleJoan^talk 10:32, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Pinging

Re this, pinging doesn't work if there are line breaks between the ping and the date/time stamp, i.e. if you start a new paragraph (I saw the edit because the page is on my watchlist; I didn't get an alert). I don't think this is very widely known. If you want to ping, you have to either add a new post, or add the ping to the last line and change the date and time stamp by substituting it with five tildes. I'm not going to join the discussion yet, I want to see how it plays out if the others respond. Scolaire (talk) 11:34, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks CeltBrowne (talk) 15:12, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

Legend of the "Black Irish"

Hi, I see that Wikipedia has lost the page on the legend of the Black Irish (so-called survivors of the Spanish Armada) with your recent redirect.[4]. The term and anchor is still used in Irish people#TermBlackIrish, but there’s now no way for people to find it, and the extensive article on the subject remains buried in the page history. As an inclusionist, I would like to see an existing page on the history of the legend/mythology of the Black Irish, perhaps something like Black Irish (legend) or a new disambiguation header pointing to the term. Let me know what you think. Viriditas (talk) 22:35, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

I added a temporary dab here. It’s not perfect, and it doesn’t link directly to the other term, but it’s a temporary workaround. Viriditas (talk) 22:51, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

Not sure if you will find this interesting, but Hawaii has a similar legend about the Spanish. Viriditas (talk) 23:13, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

A subsection on Black people in Ireland covering the folklore term has been discussed previously and I might perhaps be the one to write it. I normally stick to biographies and political subjects but I might have to cover the job since I'm not sure someone else will take up the baton. CeltBrowne (talk) 00:04, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, let me know if I can be of any help or backup support. Viriditas (talk) 00:39, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Anarchism

Hi CeltBrowne,

I saw your work on articles related to anarchism and wanted to say hello, as I work in the topic area too. If you haven't already, you might want to watch our noticeboard for Wikipedia's coverage of anarchism, which is a great place to ask questions, collaborate, discuss style/structure precedent, and stay informed about content related to anarchism. Take a look for yourself!

And if you're looking for other juicy places to edit, consider expanding a stub, adopting a cleanup category, or participating in one of our current formal discussions.

Feel free to say hi on my talk page and let me know if these links were helpful (or at least interesting). Hope to see you around. czar 05:22, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi Czar,

Thank you for the invitation but I wouldn't be an expert in the particular area of Anarchism; I'm moreso just interested in historical political people of all ideologies from the 19th century to present. Kuwasi Balagoon was someone who happened to take my interest, and while I have written about other anarchists, I don't know that I would be suited for WikiProject Anarchism. Thanks for extending the invite though. CeltBrowne (talk) 17:55, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Wrestling roster pages

Please keep the pics in a single line, it's the way it's been done for years on all wrestling roster pages, and keeps things nice and neat.

Do pics bleed over sometimes, yes, but it's never been an issue. If you start doing what you did, it will cause chain reactions to other roster pages...no need to open Pandora's box, things are done a certain way to maintain a structure and ground rules.

Thank you.

Vjmlhds 23:06, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Infobox Immigration control Platform

Hi, I only recently saw that info box and was taken aback to put it mildly to see the term Hard-euroscepticism. It most certainly is not correct. The only stance ICP ever took in relation to the EU was in relation to immigration. It opposed the Lisbon Treaty because of the Charter of Fundamental Rights which binds member countries to the asylum system, removing the right each country had to give 12 months notice and withdraw from the Refugee Convention. It did not wish to see further enlargement , especially Turkey, because of the potential for a lot more immigration. It opposed the Nice treaty because of the potential danger in the immigration area of an increase in qualified majority voting. It had not actually opposed the entry of the 10 Eastern European countries in 2004, but it did object to Ireland being one of only 3 countries (the others being UK and Sweden) which immediately allowed work without a work permit which one could have required for 4 years. The fact that its founder was described as a Europhobe is irrelevant. That would be her personal position and no more shared by ICP than her views on any other matter. As a responsible Wikipedian, I hope you will remedy the error. Aineireland (talk) 23:41, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

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Orphaned non-free image File:Kit Ahern TD.jpg

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A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	John O'Reilly (soldier) is a very good page. Well done! BoyTheKingCanDance (talk) 02:51, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Ed Don George and Danno O'Mahony, circa 1935.jpg

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Derek Blighe

Does this guy meet notability guidelines? I'm not seeing how any random far-right rabble-rouser qualifies for an article unless they've achieved some considerable notability/notoriety. We've deleted similar articles for perhaps more "prominent" individuals in the past, where they've not been elected to a public office and have no known criminal convictions. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 10:06, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

The impetus for creating the article, amongst other things, was the news from the Irish Times today that Blighe is apparently now the leader of a registered political party in Ireland, which has a certain significance as that's a rare enough event. When drafting the article, I consulted Ben Gilroy, the closest Wikipedia article I could think of to about where Blighe is at.

There's 5 categories that WP:GNG outlines for notability, which taken together basically say that the subject of an article should have a decent amount of coverage from reliable secondary sources. I would describe the three pieces of content released by the Irish Times today (2 separate articles (one of which was essentially a biography of Blighe) and a podcast) as very significant coverage and probably enough material on their own to create an article from. Obviously though it's better to supplement with as many and as varied sources as you can find, which is what I did, and that builds out the case more.

We've deleted similar articles for perhaps more "prominent" individuals in the past, where they've not been elected to a public office and have no known criminal convictions.

I'm not all that familiar with what has been deleted in the past (I didn't follow the Ireland Project page until maybe a year ago) but I have seen some reversals in that regard. Saoirse McHugh was brought back after being deleted. Her candidacies in a number of elections aside, technically she is "just" a non-elected political activist as well.

I can understand where you're coming from, I'm not going to pretend that this is a completely open and shut case, but as I said, I think the material released today really put them in the bracket of being at least as notable as Ben Gilroy, or dare I compare, an Enoch Burke. I suppose another "non-elected" name we could mention is Justin Barrett.

I'm in two minds about what to do with "Ireland First"; keep in mind that all of Ireland's registered political parties save one (United People) have articles; that includes very, very miniscule ones such as Party for Animal Welfare and Fis Nua. But if Ireland First do actually materialise as an actual party, even if it's just a fringe one similar to the National Party, then Blighe is on a par with Justin Barrett I would think.

One last name to throw out is Áine Ní Chonaill of Immigration Control Platform. Ni Chonaill was never elected either but nevertheless, does have an article (albeit just above stub level). CeltBrowne (talk) 10:31, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, it's an edge case, I think - which is why I posted here rather than on the article page. I think you're right, what differentiates him from others is the political party - though obviously it's new, hasn't run in anything, etc., whereas Barrett's party has, and Ní Chonaill was active (mostly with letter-writing?) for years. When speaking of deletions, I was more thinking of other similar right-wing rabble-rousers like the former British Army guy grifting on a YouTube channel, who used to hang around with Gemma O'Doherty. Cheers, Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 11:34, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

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"COA of city" V "COA of mayor"

Hiya. FYI. My read of this document (about the lord mayor's arms) and this document (about the city's arms) is that there are slight differences between the two. The versions which have the mace/sword/cap (symbols of the mayor) are used to represent that office. And the versions without (but with the figures of law and justice) are used to represent the city. In short, it seems that this COA image is probably OK (as it is) to illustrate the Lord Mayor of Dublin article. But this COA image is probably better (as it now is) to illustrate the Dublin (city) article. And, perhaps, should be restored to the Dublin City Council article... Guliolopez (talk) 17:06, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

I have a third option that I think will work out better; I simply remove the mace/sword/cap from the new version, and that alternative version can be used if there's an issue. How does that sound? CeltBrowne (talk) 17:48, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Just one thing to keep in mind: File:Coat of Arms of Dublin, Ireland.png is derived from the work of Arthur Charles Fox-Davies, a meticulously heraldist who published a book on the civic Coat of Arms of the UK (including Ireland at that time) in 1915. Fox-Davies believed in absolute accuracy of his rendering of Coat of Arms, so as far the "Mace, Sword and "Hat" (which I mistakenly previously thought was hay) being included as part of the City of Dublin's Coat of Arms goes, I'm inclined to believed that Fox-Davies is correct in that. CeltBrowne (talk) 17:56, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Hiya.

On dublincity.ie website we find a description of the:

• "Dublin City Coat of Arms" (flanked with figures of law/justice) and
• "Lord Mayors Coat of Arms" (embellished with cap/mace/sword)

RE: "inclined to believed that Fox-Davies is correct (in including mace/cap/sword in arms of city)". I personally don't know Fox-Davies from a hole in the wall :) And have no means of checking/verifying his position on things. What I can verify is that the Dublin City Council website has a "Dublin City Coat of Arms" page (describing an arms flanked with figures of law/justice) and a separate "Lord Mayors Coat of Arms" page (describing it as the city arms embellished with cap/mace/sword). Perhaps, when Fox-Davies drew his representation, the two arms were the same. And no distinction was drawn. The more modern sources do now, however, seem to draw a distinction between the two.

RE: "simply remove the mace/sword/cap from the new version (to create a new version)". I personally don't understand why we would create a new, separate (WP:OR?) version. When the version that was in place for some time (and is in place again in some instances) is quite a good representation of the arms we find on the cover of that "Dublin City Coat of Arms" PDF document or leaflet linked on the Dublin City Council website. Why create our own/new image, when a reasonable and seemingly representative image already exists? (I'm sorry, I appear to be missing something in the motivation here. I clearly don't understand your issue/concern with the existing image.)

Separately, if we're to continue this conversation I suggest we do it in the mainspace somewhere. Perhaps at Talk:Dublin. So others can join. The only reason I posted here is because you'd added/changed that image in so many articles and there wasn't a clear "home" for a content discussion.

GRMA. Guliolopez (talk) 18:12, 24 March 2023 (UTC)