User talk:MarkH21

User:MarkH21

User talk:MarkH21

User:MarkH21/toolbox

Special:Contributions/MarkH21

Main

Talk

Toolbox

Contributions

WP:CIVIL

Since we are beating this drum at ANI, can you tell me why you think it's acceptable to be discussing someone's (supposed) conduct, whilst all the time nurturing incivility on the board? Not nice, belittling someone's user name, is it Marky? Cassianto^Talk 20:48, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

@Cassianto: I’m not condoning the name used by the editor here, but just pointing out that directly editing another editor’s comment after being reverted is prohibited per WP:REFACTOR. But doing here exactly what you are protesting there doesn’t help anyone. — MarkH₂₁^talk 20:55, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

I think you'll find that civility is a policy and your effort is, well, nothing really. Just something dreamt up by a do-gooder who's forgotten what an encyclopedia is. You need to get your priorities right. Cassianto^Talk 21:06, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

@Cassianto: Directly editing an editor’s comment is unlikely to resolve incivility issues though. It only escalates. You’ll find that I asked the editor to redact the username shortening. — MarkH₂₁^talk 21:09, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Belittling someone's username, and following it with a PA, is likely to increase incivility, wouldn't you agree? Cassianto^Talk 21:17, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Yes, but my point is that both actions were likely to escalate issues. Obviously one more than the other, but we can only directly control our response. — MarkH₂₁^talk 21:21, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Kashmiri Pandits

Sir u see now. Exact words of source now. Any problem please tell. Thank u. Pandya101 (talk) 18:51, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

Sir tell me if source words exact copy or not. First u cancel as no exact words. Now edit cancel saying exact words not aloud. Sir please add it. Thank u. Pandya101 (talk) 19:30, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

@Pandya101: The original they are best is clearly subjective and unencyclopedic language that cannot be directly stated in Wikipedia’s voice (i.e. it has to be attributed to someone).

For the follow-up, it is against Wikipedia’s copyright policy to copy exact wording or extremely close paraphrasing, essentially unless it is clearly attributed and a quote. — MarkH₂₁^talk 20:09, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

Your accusation of disruptive editing and removing 700 points of information

I found your comment on my talk page very rude. Open any video of any person touring a Chinese wet Market, and you'll see they trade Dogs, Cats, and even frogs if they have. Some dealers even have ivory tusks, Bush meat, And rhino Horns. Why are some editors like yourself completely erasing information unless a "source" is provided when a Source is not needed, unless you motives to not let the general public read that little quote that you embarrass what should be shameful practice. If there is Anything that is disruptive, its your deletion of my expansion of an article and writing threats on my talk accusing me of subjective "destructive" editing. Biomax20 (talk) 06:11, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

All content must be verifiable through reliable sources per Wikipedia’s policy on verifiability, and the burden is on the editor adding information to provide references. That’s what all three warnings on your talk page are about.

I am not disputing that there was illegal wildlife trade occurring in some Chinese wet markets, but the claims in your additions were unreferenced. That’s it. — MarkH₂₁^talk 07:03, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

@MarkH21 "but the claims in your additions were unreferenced." No they were not, because in context every word written was tied to the word "Wet Markets" and the internet is FULL of documentation regarding "claims" which arent "Claims" but "fact". If you're having such a Hard time with "claims" and "Unreferenced" information, we live in the digital age 2020. A 10 second google on the subject will enlighten you that its FACT not CLAIM. And perhaps you could help BUILD a a article, as was the original idea of wikipedia and not DESTROY information as you are, clearly, so viciously doing. Biomax20 (talk) 16:59, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

@Biomax20: Please carefully read the policy, which I did not make up myself:

The burden to demonstrate verifiability lies with the editor who adds or restores material, and it is satisfied by providing an inline citation to a reliable source that directly supports the contribution...

Cite the source clearly and precisely (specifying page, section, or such divisions as may be appropriate).

It doesn’t matter if you think that someone can find the information you added by searching for it online themselves. You have to add a citation. — MarkH₂₁^talk 17:52, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Source for birthplace of Patrick X. Gallagher

Your edit to the article for Patrick X. Gallagher added him to Category:People from Elizabeth, New Jersey, but in a Google search I can't find a source that indicates that he was born there. Which of the sources i the article establishes Elizabeth as his place of birth? Alansohn (talk) 13:13, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

I had noticed that the birthplace was added to the German Wikipedia article and was referenced to American Men and Women of Science. Gale. 2004., so I transferred it over to the article here. I didn’t check this source myself though. — MarkH₂₁^talk 19:12, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. I had found American Men and Women of Science in a Snippet view on Google Books, but I was unable to confirm his birthplace. I will check further. You seem to have access to a deep library of sources. Could you try to look a little deeper, perhaps for an obituary? Alansohn (talk) 21:30, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Your incessant harassment and demands about 'references'

Would you kindly cease harassing me with your and other editor subjective 'reference' demands and destructive article information deletion. Im a local within Libya and likely the only person editing matters on regarding my country from within my country, as neutrally and morally as possible. Your deletions, warnings and subjective demands for References are very aggressive and feel politically motivated.

Edit: This is a online, Digital encyclopedia open to the Public, for Editing. I have done nothing but good by adding information, Unlike some, who seem to only search for reasons to destroy information. If you are that irritated by missing references, please feel free, to open a new tab in your browser and check feedback for yourself, and perhaps 'HELP' edit for a greater good, rather than being toxic and slapping a warning on a contributor. Secondly, My edits on the Articles on the Battle of Tripoli, WAS referenced, from the very reliable sources, such as BBC, ALJAZEERA, AND news sites, Moreover, being a citizen of Libya, wrote and added information with respect to the article that should be mentioned, WITHIN Context of the SUBJECT. All referenced sources of information, already mentioned all the points being told within the Article. Your claims that information is referenced, feel somewhat politically motivated. Biomax20 (talk) 17:17, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

@Biomax20: Please carefully read the policy, which I did not make up myself:

The burden to demonstrate verifiability lies with the editor who adds or restores material, and it is satisfied by providing an inline citation to a reliable source that directly supports the contribution...

Cite the source clearly and precisely (specifying page, section, or such divisions as may be appropriate).

It doesn’t matter if you think that someone can find the information you added by searching for it online themselves. You have to add a citation. We use unreferenced here to mean lacking a citation.

On the Battle of Tripoli Airport edit, I did not remove anything that was properly referenced, except for the three YouTube links. If the news source does not directly say something, you cannot personally infer information and write your interpretation by the policy against original research and synthesis. Furthermore, your edit misrepresented what is cited to the existing LA Times reference, by adding claims immediately before it.

Wikipedia relies on citations. Please carefully cite information and avoid adding your own interpretation of what is written in reliable sources. — MarkH₂₁^talk 17:57, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

@MarkH21: Sounds to me your edits are just politically motivated. Biomax20 (talk) 18:37, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

@Biomax20: Please read Wikipedia’s policy on personal attacks before making further baseless accusations of political POV editing, in addition to WP:BURDEN which you have still not followed. — MarkH₂₁^talk

@MarkH21: Please cease harassing me and removing information from every single article relating to Libya. I think Wikipedia has a policy on harassment too? "baseless accusations" why are you editing and deleting information from my articles then? Biomax20 (talk) 18:56, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

@Biomax20: You repeatedly added content that was either unreferenced or poorly formatted, the former being a more serious offense against Wikipedia policies. Accusing editors of politically motivated POV edits with nothing but your own personal hunch is even more egregious. — MarkH₂₁^talk 19:11, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

@MarkH21: I could say the exact same thing regarding your opinion on "was either unreferenced or poorly formatted" being "your own personal hunch". Its been a number of days since you began latching on to any edits i did yet, and yet, you havent contributed any productive editing. Its just been destructive editing, removal of information and labeling that information as "requiring references". I am not arguing against providing references, i would happily do that, however that is very time consuming. I spent the Entire day fixing the "Attack on Tripoli airport" article to deny you any excuse to delete the information. And yes, i accused you of suspected political motivation, because you havent provided anything constructive to any of the subjects. Not on the Tripoli Airport subject, and not on the RADA deterrence force article. As a Libyan, far too many controversies and crimes with people trying to sweep information under the carpet, and your "Destructive" editing or rule nagging isn't boding well. You havent even engaged in on the Article talk page to discuss editing. I could have "satisfied" your personal requirements for "Encyclopedic" content as you said it. - I am just being Frank with you. As for "poorly formatted", you are more than welcome to contribute with your superior formatting skills providing it isnt destructive, and doesnt include constant nagging that my piece of information is "Unsatisfactory" according to your "Encyclopedic requirements". Biomax20 (talk) 19:26, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

@Biomax20: Err, content that does not have a supporting citation just does not have a supporting citation. It can't be a personal hunch if there's literally no citation.

Unreferenced content in a controversial topic can be just as damaging as adding content. Per Wikipedia policy at WP:CHALLENGE, the burden is on the editor adding the material to add the citations, not the editor challenging it. That's how we help ensure neutrality and rigor in the material on Wikipedia.

Something that should be more alarming to you is the addition of unreferenced biased content, not the removal of unreferenced content in the name of verifiability.

On a final note, comments like I will revert all the information Vandalization and attempt to lock this article and Your pathetic attempts to sweep warcrimes under the rug will NOT succeed is not particularly conducive to article talk page discussion, nor does it inspire confidence in your ability to edit neutrally. — MarkH₂₁^talk 19:31, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

@MarkH21: Well then please to do what wikipedia was designed to do, that is adding in citation and reference, that is if you bothered with the article with the intent on improving it rather than using a set of rules for destructive behavior which you are clearly engaged in doing. You are acting as wikipedia police, rather than a constructive editor. Theres no such thing as "personal hunch". There is Claim, and there is Google. Go google a claim made by a person if you have THAT much of a problem with an unreferenced piece sentence. "That's how we help ensure neutrality and rigor in the material on Wikipedia." No thats how you help send the article to oblivion, as was the case when i first opened the Attack on Tripoli airport article, which had all information from it removed from Edits from people who had their own little opinions on what should be edited. To you its "Encyclopedic", To me, a Libya, this is a matter of war crimes and Vital information that needs to be exposed. If it was unreferenced, you could have simply asked in the Talk page. Or placed "Citation needed" as you did recently, rather than DELETING. That is DESTRUCTIVE. Also " unreferenced biased content", This phrase right here, is why people think your edits are politically motivated. Either way, i will be editing with references, and i will be denying you excuses for further destructive editing because i understand the subject, because i've lived through it. Kindly, again, cease harassing me. The only reason information wasnt "Referenced" according to your standards is just because i was lazy. Biomax20 (talk) 19:44, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

@Biomax20: Listen, I'm trying to explain Wikipedia's policy for your and everyone else's benefit. It is not just my interpretation; the policy has been decided by consensus from a very large group of experienced editors: The burden to demonstrate verifiability lies with the editor who adds or restores material, and it is satisfied by providing an inline citation to a reliable source that directly supports the contribution. It's very simple. There's nothing about being destructive. It doesn't take much to add something back once you find a reference.

However, if you continue to add uncited content and continue to react and accuse others of harassment and political motivation when warned by other editors, you may find yourself blocked by an administrator. This is not a threat from me, I am informing you because I think that you are a good-faith editor but are slightly defensive on controversial issues.

Finally, I did not call your edits unreferenced biased content. I said that you should be more concerned with (hypothetical / other) editors adding unreferenced biased content.

Don't be lazy, and stop throwing around accusations of harassment, vandalism, and political motivation. My warnings to you are meant to be constructive and prevent avoidable and unpleasant further consequences. — MarkH₂₁^talk 19:53, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

@MarkH21: Actions speak louder than words. Your actions involved policing wikipedia policies, and removing information. You havent provided any reasoning behind deleting edits other than calling up "Wikipedias policies". What did you add to those articles? Near to nothing. ( Thank you for the grammar and other helpful edits, albeit minor CONSTRUCTIVE edits ). "The burden to demonstrate verifiability lies with the editor who adds or restores material, and it is satisfied by providing an inline citation to a reliable source that directly supports the contribution", Wikipedia doesnt specify that you should Delete said information. It specifies that the claimant has the burden to provide a source. And before engaging in destructive behaviour, such as "Deletion" of information which, with respect, seems to fly over your head, and will only create conflict by acting as Wikipedia censor police, could have atleast added a "Citation needed" tag, or a note or contacted me on Talk page, and i would have happily added a source to the 'claims'. This is the second argument in context that i am trying to relay to you. Biomax20 (talk) 20:02, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

@Biomax20: I hope you realize that calling up "Wikipedias policies" is the strongest reason to make an edit. That's what Wikipedia is built upon, and Going against the principles set out on these pages, particularly policy pages, is unlikely to prove acceptable per WP:ENFORCEMENT. Again, there is absolutely nothing wrong with removing unreferenced content. It is not considered negatively destructive, and can be just as easily restored once a source is found. If you actually read the policy, it clearly states Any material lacking a reliable source directly supporting it may be removed and should not be restored without an inline citation to a reliable source. In fact, the onus for adding even verifiable information is on those adding disputed content, per WP:ONUS.

Follow this advice closely: follow Wikipedia policies and don't throw around unsupported accusations editors that warn you of breaches of policy. This is the last time that I will tell you this directly outside of a report at an appropriate centralized noticeboard, since further repeating of these core tenets may not resolve these issues. — MarkH₂₁^talk 20:14, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Theres a fine thin line, between an editor that takes time reading a "Source" and another that fails to read already provided sources claiming that theres "no source" because said editor wasnt spoon fed the exact phrase, deleting information with a baseless claim that something isnt cited or "Sourced". Example The Cathedral of Tripoli article. I provided a source of Information that came from a researcher who had information in Italian, that was very difficult to come by because of the scarcity of Information. I am surprised to you haven't deleted the entire article and frankly expected you to damage it. With that being said, please dont. Biomax20 (talk) 20:33, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

You'll have to explain where the already provided sources are in here or here. Oh there are none, except some YouTube links in the latter that don't say what was added.

Anyways, we're done here. I hope you got the message that multiple editors have been telling you. Happy editing. — MarkH₂₁^talk 20:40, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Sudais page

Hi. The sections disappeared from WP:ANI. I concur, please move it to both 'l' and the talk pages too. Thank you, sir. -- Avi (talk) 19:35, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

It's still there (fifth section at the moment), but I'll go ahead and move it now. — MarkH₂₁^talk 19:44, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, sir. -- Avi (talk) 04:16, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Hungarian Spectrum

Would you take a look at the article now?--5.204.25.239 (talk) 07:37, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks.--84.224.163.158 (talk) 10:08, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

Dear UserMarkH21, could I ask you, please, to discuss the George Soros quote on Hungarian Spectrum with me on my or your or the Hungarian Spectrum talk page (or by email for Stevan Harnad instead of repeatedly deleting it at the request of 5.204.25.239? We seem to disagree about its relevance, so let's discuss it. Cheers --User:Harnad (talk) 15:25, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

My initial edit has before the anonymous editor left the message above, and indeed the timing of the second edit was coincidental with the above post which I have not engaged with. Moving to article talk. — MarkH₂₁^talk 21:34, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Golden Dragon massacre

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Golden Dragon massacre you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Vami IV -- Vami IV (talk) 13:40, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Responses on talk page

I am not sure about this message. I had responded about those edits of yours on the appropriate section per here. Can you respond to that section instead so that we can keep things at one place? Orientls (talk) 10:35, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

@Oreintls: Oh I didn't notice that you also commented in the other section in the same edit. The edit warring undid those changes without any explanation in the edit summaries or otherwise though. — MarkH₂₁^talk 10:41, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Golden Dragon massacre

The article Golden Dragon massacre you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Golden Dragon massacre for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Vami IV -- Vami IV (talk) 11:21, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Your close was against the guidelines

Your close was against the guidelines, accordingly I had to revert it. Please read WP:SK once again. --Cedix (talk) 13:33, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

@Cedix: Oi sorry! You're totally right, I've forgotten about the and no one other than the nominator recommends that the page be deleted or redirected clause. That was a pretty egregious mistake on my part. — MarkH₂₁^talk 13:36, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

It is all right now. You must know, that I had to read the page WP:SK twice before I had the courage to revert an experienced editor. But we are all humans. Thanks for understanding. I truly appreciate your good contributions. Regards. --Cedix (talk) 13:38, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

New evidence at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stereotype space

Hoping you'll take some time to consider the screenshots.--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 06:06, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Exodus of Kashmiri Pandits

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_of_Kashmiri_Hindus#Background

{ISI's initial attempts to create unrest in Kashmir against the Indian government were unsuccessful until it started growing in late-1980s.} The citation this paragraph provides says nothing like it, I would like to you look into this. Thank you. I am sorry if I am informal, actually I haven't used wikipedia that much. Bhattakeel9 (talk) 09:19, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

@Bhattakee19: The relevant passage seems to be at the very top of page 123, spilling over from page 122. — MarkH₂₁^talk 09:25, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Thank you so much, actually the page 122 won't load so could find it. Bhattakeel9 (talk) 15:13, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Additionally, if you could, please check this paragraph: {Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) tried to spread Wahhabism in place of Sufism to foster religious unity with their nation, the communalisation helped in furthering it.} There is just nothing like this in the its citation 19. https://books.google.co.in/books?id=k5EAAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA84&dq=communalist+isi&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi_6bXaqcLcAhUJ148KHc_SCnEQ6AEIJjAA#v=onepage&q&f=false Bhattakeel9 (talk) 15:15, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Sorry for the mistake🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️ Bhattakeel9 (talk) 15:16, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Lucien Szpiro

On 20 April 2020, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Lucien Szpiro, which you nominated and updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. Stephen 04:21, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

SPA, NPA

"Very opinionated" is not a personal attack, and if you're going to tag accounts created to participate in an AfD then you should tag Caleb Ji's initial post, as well. --JBL (talk) 12:04, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

@Joel B. Lewis: Calling someone very opinionated and airing what they heard second-hand of a potentially embarrassing off-wiki academic event seems very much like casting aspersions. You’re right about the SPA tag though, sorry it slipped my mind. My attention was just grabbed by the off-wiki comment. — MarkH₂₁^talk 12:08, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Well, hopefully the phenomenon of a bunch of former REU students creating accounts and duking it out about whether areas of mathematics are established or not is not one that will become a regular feature of AfD :). --JBL (talk) 17:35, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

@Joel B. Lewis: It really might just be the most effective way to attract new math editors, if they decide to stick around afterwards! Maybe we should regularly nominate the hottest REU topics for deletion! — MarkH₂₁^talk 18:06, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Ha! :) --JBL (talk) 14:21, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

Macau

Hi MarkH21, I removed content again that you restored in the Macau article because the information cited from that reference can't be verified in more authoritative sourcing. I don't have problems with the content itself or the way it was written and would be fine with restoring it if a publication or journal could be found to reference that. Thanks, Horserice (talk) 22:00, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

@Horserice: I’m not sure what you mean by unverifiable, since you could follow the citation to the source. If you mean that you want separate reliable sources, that’s a different thing than verifiability. — MarkH₂₁^talk 03:05, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Found other sources, including a Macau government publication, an ethnology encyclopedia, and a political handbook. Seems sufficient to add back. — MarkH₂₁^talk 03:18, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

@MarkH21: Yes, I meant I wanted reliable sources, aka WP:Verifiability. Those sources seem fine, I'm okay with that bit being added back in. Horserice (talk) 04:28, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Draft:Koro Kaisan Miles

While Draft:Koro Kaisan Miles may not have been your draft, you did submit it for AFC review, so you were picked by the review script as the person who messages should be communicated to. I have corrected this mistake and suggest more caution in the future. Hasteur (talk) 00:53, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

@Hasteur: Ah, I see. I think I accidentally submitted the draft in this edit when I meant to place an AfC draft banner for Zenothing. Thanks. — MarkH₂₁^talk 02:50, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Autopatrolled granted

Hi MarkH21, I just wanted to let you know that I have added the "autopatrolled" permission to your account, as you have created numerous, valid articles. This feature will have no effect on your editing, and is simply intended to reduce the workload on new page patrollers. For more information on the autopatrolled right, see Wikipedia:Autopatrolled. However, you should consider adding relevant wikiproject talk-page templates, stub-tags and categories to new articles that you create if you aren't already in the habit of doing so, since your articles will no longer be systematically checked by other editors (User:Evad37/rater and User:SD0001/StubSorter.js are useful scripts which can help). Feel free to leave me a message if you have any questions. Happy editing! Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 03:05, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Golden Dragon massacre

Hello! Your submission of Golden Dragon massacre at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! BlueMoonset (talk) 14:35, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Prahlad Balaji

I have been very perplexed by this user multiple times relating to these iPhone SE articles. Quite frustrating. Seems like there may be a CIR issue? If I have some free time I will take a look at their edit history. —DIYeditor (talk) 23:08, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Page mover granted

Hello, MarkH21. Your account has been granted the "extendedmover" user right, either following a request for it or demonstrating familiarity with working with article names and moving pages. You are now able to rename pages without leaving behind a redirect, move subpages when moving the parent page(s), and move category pages.

Please take a moment to review Wikipedia:Page mover for more information on this user right, especially the criteria for moving pages without leaving redirect. Please remember to follow post-move cleanup procedures and make link corrections where necessary, including broken double-redirects when suppressredirect is used. This can be done using Special:WhatLinksHere. It is also very important that no one else be allowed to access your account, so you should consider taking a few moments to secure your password. As with all user rights, be aware that if abused, or used in controversial ways without consensus, your page mover status can be revoked.

Useful links:

• Wikipedia:Requested moves
• Category:Articles to be moved, for article renaming requests awaiting action.

If you do not want the page mover right anymore, just let me know, and I'll remove it. Thank you, and happy editing! qedk (t 愛 c) 20:18, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Misinformation related to the 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic

Could you give an impartial assessment of Symphony Regalia's interpretation of two talk page threads on the urns story at the main pandemic article: first section, second section? CaradhrasAiguo (leave language) 01:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

@CaradhrasAiguo: I gave two cents at your talk on the overlying dispute without looking at the underlying issues yet. — MarkH₂₁^talk 02:33, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Notice of edit warring noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. The thread is Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring#User:CaradhrasAiguo reported by User:Symphony Regalia (Result: ). Thank you. MrClog (talk) 13:55, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Permalink. — MarkH₂₁^talk 19:35, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

A year ago ...

infobox mathematical statement
... you were recipient no. 2198 of Precious, a prize of QAI!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:54, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

My edits tonight

Hi there,

I very much appreciate the constructive feedback on my edits. I am however, using this as a final project for a class. There is a certain word count requirement I need to fulfill. If you wouldn't mind restoring my edits and leaving them as such for just a week, that would be great. After a week, I promise, you may revise my edits however you want. I really just want to finish out the semester strong. I understand that you are more experienced than myself, and I don't mean to encroach on this hobby of yours. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aujokill (talk • contribs) 03:47, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

@Aujokill: Could you clarify on this? Do you mean that your final assignment has a minimum number of words that you need to add to a Wikipedia page?

Unfortunately, Wikipedia does not work like this. We cannot leave information up temporarily solely for someone to fulfill course requirements. That’s not within the purpose of Wikipedia. Either the material is suitable or it’s not, there’s not temporary pass for various people’s assignments. The hope is that you are here to contribute to building an encyclopedia; blatant ulterior motives aren’t really allowed.

Nevertheless, there is plenty of room for you to contribute! For instance, there is plenty of directly relevant material in this SCMP article and this Reuters article that would be valuable additions to the Xinjiang re-education camp article. In particular, it would be worth describing the disparity between the Chinese government position that the labor element of the camps is a job placement scheme, in contrast to the several reports of forced labor. — MarkH₂₁^talk 05:51, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

gg

Do not edit/add/remove anything in the articel "Le dynasty" or your may be limited from editing. 2601:204:E37F:FFF1:C42C:E57:AFDB:17AC (talk) 18:29, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Would you care to explain your deletion, anonymous user? — MarkH₂₁^talk 18:31, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

During this period, Mac dynasty was the tributary/vassal state to Ming. Neither Le. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:204:E37F:FFF1:C42C:E57:AFDB:17AC (talk) 18:34, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

All of these sources would beg to differ: academic paper, academic paper, Encyclopaedia Britannica, academic review, and countless more. During the Mac dynasty, it was a tributary to the Ming. That doesn't mean that the Le dynasty wasn't a tributary state to the Ming. — MarkH₂₁^talk 18:47, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

So what would you do something on Joseon,next? 2601:204:E37F:FFF1:C42C:E57:AFDB:17AC (talk) 18:58, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

What do you mean? — MarkH₂₁^talk 18:59, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Status doesn't mean anything at least all nations were maintaining independent. Today it's globalized world, not a world seen by Chinese imperialism's eyes, so history must be like that.2601:204:E37F:FFF1:C42C:E57:AFDB:17AC (talk) 19:02, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

What are you talking about? The important subordinate relationship is an important facet of the dynasty, which the infobox summarizes. This isn't claiming that it's not independent. This also has nothing to do with the modern day. There are also a lot of examples of the usage of the "status" parameter for tributary states: Ryukyu Kingdom, Emirate of Granada, Lanfang Republic, Kingdom of Chiang Mai, Kingdom of Larantuka, Duchy of Brittany. — MarkH₂₁^talk 19:05, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Countries with status parameters for tributary states should only be those that changed their status (Vietnam under Nguyễn dynasty, Ryukyu islands for example) or small states that would then be annexed by their lords like Chiang Mai whereas their status did matter in their political and historical information.--NhatMinh1701 (talk) 08:45, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

That’s an unnecessarily arbitrary inclusion criterion. The status of a tributary state is fundamental information for understanding its context, regardless of whether it changed during the course of the state’s existence. It absolutely matters in the political and historical aspects, particularly in this case when various Vietnamese dynasties were sovereign states and various Vietnamese dynasties were tributary states. The distinction between them is crucial context.

Put another way, the use of the status parameter as intended adds information about a state’s crucial external relationships (already referenced in the article body) to the infobox. So far, there hasn’t been a single cogent reason to specifically exclude that information. Assertions that it just shouldn’t be there and ”I don’t like it” don’t count. — MarkH₂₁^talk 09:28, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

The Mac dynasty was a close vassal state to Ming just like Joseon, they did not have any Qing supports. 2601:204:E37F:FFF1:C42C:E57:AFDB:17AC (talk) 20:32, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

See the discussion here. The cited source literally says This relationship carried over to the Qing. — MarkH₂₁^talk 20:34, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Should you wish to complain about Mztourist's WP:OWN issues

Please feel free to advise me. He simply will not accept that North Vietnamese sources have any validity. We're not supposed to be US-ipedia. Buckshot06 (talk) 10:39, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean by this post. There was an ANI thread that was just closed over this, with consensus finding that he was exhibiting WP:OWNERSHIP. The underlying content dispute is now at two RfCs, and I don't intend on filing any additional complaints unless something egregious comes up. — MarkH₂₁^talk 10:41, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

You're clearly ahead of me if an ANI has been filed. I have commented at both RFCs. Buckshot06 (talk) 12:48, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

How long?

Why does your User Page say that you have been on WP for 13 years, 4 months when your first edit was on 27 December 2015? That's 4 years and 4.5 months. Mztourist (talk) 08:16, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Because I made mostly minor edits as an IP before that. The earliest I could find was in 2006. — MarkH₂₁^talk 15:02, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Article

Your statements are really a little funny. The description of the processes of the campaigns and related sources are already presented in these articles. I just make proper modification of the sentences. What else should I add? 七战功成 21:58, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

See the existing discussion that I pointed you to. You changed directly cited statements and added your own interpretation of events as “Dai Viet victory” in the infobox. — MarkH₂₁^talk 21:02, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

It is you making an unclear, if not a misleading title first.

It is you who alter and make an unclear title first. I would like to keep good faith, but I am really doubting the title you once made: "Academic autonomy". It is indeed telling nothing in this context. What is "Academic autonomy" to do with a police? Only when you include the term "infringement", it will become clearer. If you make an unclear title, it is definitely not uncivil to say you "prevent people from understanding the incident".

If you have done a PhD, you should know the importance of a title in an academic paper, and seriousness of "infringement". You insisted on using this title until I made a compromise. I can accept your inclusion of the term "alleged", but you should have the capabilities of making a balanced title but you did not. A reasonable user will doubt your purpose behind. Universehk (talk) 22:37, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

The purpose was to not have subsection titles that are half the length of the subsection itself, as I clearly stated at the talk page. It's your failure to maintain maintain good faith assumptions.

Look at any subsection, even across "Controversy" sections across Wikipedia. We use short titles that generally and very briefly describe the context, without going into details. The subsection title "Academic autonomy" tells you the general subject, as do the subsection titles at Controversies surrounding Silvio Berlusconi, Controversies surrounding Yasukuni Shrine, Criticism of Wikipedia, and countless other articles.

Would you change Carrie Lam#Persisting protests to Carrie Lam#Persisting protests in Hong Kong in 2019 over the anti-extradition bill? — MarkH₂₁^talk 22:47, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Short doesn't mean unclear. I already made a compromise in the subject article. If you have assumed good faith of mine, you will have thought about yourself if you made the title unclear, but you did not. If I find you intentionally, or unintentionally blur the clarity of the title that may objectively prevent others understanding, I will change your edits without doubts under the condition of complying the policies of English Wikipedia. Finally, I wish you can improve your attitude to others and respect others effort.Universehk (talk) 22:58, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

You then added similarly verbose section title Being listed on a proposed sanction list based on the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act at several articles; it seems you don't get the point.

Also, don't proselytize respect and attitude improvements when you make comments like Pack it MarkH21 and You tried to prevent people from understanding the incident in response to my opening a talk page section to discuss the edits.

Also, you might want to read what WP:WIKIVOICE actually says, since Save your word of accusing me of WP:WIKIVOICE doesn't make any sense. — MarkH₂₁^talk 23:03, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

If you do not want other to proselytize respect and attitude improvements, mind your words, respect others. I am open to discussion related to adopting appropriate titles. For "Being listed on a proposed sanction list based on the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act", I cannot think of a clearer title as of now. If you have an idea that will reasonably maintain clearness while not impeding others' understanding, you can raise it. Unfortunately, the problem of your attitude is more serious than the titling issue. Universehk (talk) 00:31, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

None of the words at the talk page or the reverts here and here reflect any disrespect? It's a matter of upholding MOS:SECTIONHEADING, which refers to A title should be a recognizable name or description of the topic that is natural, sufficiently precise, concise, and consistent with those of related articles (bolding mine). Articles almost never have subsection titles more than a couple of words in length.

In this case, the section title is problematic (I'd suggest Alleged U.S. sanction). However, whether it is WP:DUE is even more of an issue, since it's cited only to reports that are based solely on a tweet from one person (Solomon Yue). It's not due weight or WP:PROMINENCE to dedicate a paragraph to one person's tweet, which has been unsubstantiated by anything afterwards. — MarkH₂₁^talk 08:29, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Your revert of my edit on Xinjiang re-education camps

https://statements.unmeetings.org is a legitimate website of the UN. You can check http://papersmart.un.org which redirects to http://papersmart.unmeetings.org. There you go to https://papersmart.unmeetings.org/ga/third/74th-session/statements/, you choose Belarus as a speaker and the second item's "download" button links to http://statements.unmeetings.org/media2/23328878/belarus-joint-statement-cerd-chair-oct-29.pdf I have reverted your revert. Guilombre (talk) 22:57, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

@Guilombre: Thanks, I wasn't aware of that! The actual site at https://statements.unmeetings.org threw me off. You wouldn't expect a UN website to only read Welcome to my website and Hosted by AWS. — MarkH₂₁^talk 23:11, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

ARBIPA sanctions reminder

Hi MarkH, you have been notified of the ARBIPA discretionary sanctions regime by RegentsPark about 12 months ago. The notification is still in effect. So I won't give you another one yet. I would make some observations based on my interaction with you over the last few weeks.

• You are making edits at a frantic pace, in the mainspace as well as on talk pages. It is becoming difficult to even respond to your posts without running into an edit conflicts, because you would have made more edits in the meantime. You need to slow down.
• You are tending to the side of filibustering, without enough recognition of the disputed and contentious nature of the subjects you are dealing with. Your contribution to the RfC that you youself started is an extreme example of this.
• You are not displaying sufficient understanding of WP:NPOV. I admit that it is hard to figure out what NPOV should be in contentious subjects. But this edit and this talk page post appear as adding POV in the name of NPOV.
• Most troublesome I find are misrepresentations of sources, e.g., here, where you take a comment made in the context of Kashmir–British India border and make it appear as if it applied to the Kashmir–Tibet border. The source you cited has no mention of Tibet whatsover.

So far I have been assuming good faith. But it is becoming increasingly difficult to do so. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 13:55, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

I am still well aware of the discretionary sanctions active in the topic, but thanks for the reminder.

• I’m not imposing a deadline or anything for you to respond. The latest set of issues was from another editor making edits, and my opening a talk page discussion with them (which they later pinged you in). I didn’t intent to involve in yet another discussion about this topic. Regarding edit conflicts, sorry, I make a lot of small fixes after I make my main post.
• How is opening an RfC, on an issue that you said is {tq|certainly ripe for an RfC or DRN}} after we discussed it at length, at all filibustering? How am I not recognizing the dispute, when I am opening talk page discussions to discuss and bring up the point that village of Demchok itself is disputed.
• I only wish to uphold WP:NPOV, and will defer to judgment of broader consensus, such as that at WP:NPOVN. I only seek to clearly represent what’s written in reliable sources, and if sources contradict, then that is often something that should be noted. The diff you link is where I tried to represent the contradictory nature situation, which was you pointed out first. I don’t have a personal opinion on the border dispute, except that it’s an unfortunate (and often silly) dispute, and that the world would be better off if they amicably resolved it.
• If I’ve misrepresented that quote, then that is my fault for misunderstanding the source and it’s context. However, doesn’t this quote follow a passage that explicitly talks about both borders, with these instructions applying to the entire border commission? From the source (bolding mine):

  So it was felt by Government to be urgently necessary to demarcate the border between British and Kashmir—and between Kashmiri and Tibetan—territory.
  The first boundary commission 1846
  P. A. Vans Agnew and Capt. A. Cunningham were sent into Lahul as Boundary Commissioners with instructions to demarcate clear and incontestable boundary lines round the southern and eastern frontiers of Ladakh. Their instructions from Henry Lawrence (Agent to the Governor General, Northwest Frontier, and Resident at Lahore) included a requirement to establish such frontiers as would prevent the rulers of Jammu & Kashmir ever interrupting British Indian trade. And also, because Lawrence believed that the monopolistic trade clauses of the Ladakhi treaties of Leh (1842) and Temisgam (1684) should no longer be valid—he argued that since Gulab Singh had accepted British paramountcy, traders from British territories should be allowed to trade freely with Western Tibet—he instructed Cunningham and Vans Agnew to open negotiations along these lines with the Tibetan authorities at Gartok [...] There had been no co-operation from either the Jammu & Kashmir government or the Chinese and Tibetan authorities in Lhasa. [...] Cunningham’s second expedition in 1847 did not discover or resolve the anomalies inherent in his brief survey of the Tsho Moriri area in 1846. [...] He had been asked to demarcate a boundary and to ensure that it took account of the needs of British Indian trans-Himalayan trade—a subject which seems to have engaged his personal enthusiasm as well as his duty—and he had done so. His instructions from Henry Lawrence had included the injunction to ensure that if there should be any uncertainty about the traditional location of a boundary or its customary markers the benefit of the doubt should be given to the Maharaja of Jammu & Kashmir, and he no doubt believed that he had done this.

  After reading this, it seemed clear to me that these were general instructions for the 1847 survey of both borders. I don’t see an indication that those instructions were given for the Kashmir–British India border but not the Kashmir–Tibet border.

My stance has always been to represent sources, engage in discussion, and build broader consensus. I regret that our recent discussions have caused you to border on assuming bad faith, but I assure you that I have no motivation except to build consensus and strive towards bettering the project with reliable sources. — MarkH₂₁^talk 15:38, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

@Kautilya3: The part of the quote above is explicitly regarding Cunningham's 1847 survey. Further demonstrating that these instructions are about the Ladakh-Tibet border is the following (bolding mine):

During the autumn of 1846, Cunningham and Agnew had partially defined the border between Kashmir and British India. As soon as the passes opened in 1847 the British mission, now consisting of Cunningham, Lieutenant H. Strachey and Dr. T. Thomson, commenced their march to Tibet's western border to determine the boundary between the territories of the Emperor of China and those of Gulab Singh.
— Huttenback, Robert A. (1968). "Kashmir as an imperial factor during the reign of Gulab Singh (1847-1857)". Journal of Asian History. 2 (2): 77–108.

In 1846, they surveyed the Ladakh-British India border. In 1847, they surveyed the Ladakh-Tibet border. — MarkH₂₁^talk 20:51, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

I know this but it doesn't the situation with respect to the Howard paper. Howard is dealing with Kashmir–British India border. So, we cannot extrapolate the comments made in that context to the Kashmir–Tibet border. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 21:57, 15 May 2020 (UTC)