User talk:Windows66

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Welcome to Wikipedia, Windows66! Thank you for your contributions. I am George8211 and I have been editing Wikipedia for some time, so if you have any questions feel free to leave me a message on my talk page. You can also check out Wikipedia:Questions or type {{helpme}} at the bottom of this page. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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Also, when you post on talk pages you should sign your name using four tildes (~~~~); that will automatically produce your username and the date. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! George8211^{what did I break now?} 17:02, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks very much for the welcome I hope stay around and contribute good edits to Wikipedia!--Windows66 (talk) 17:11, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Hitler

Hitler's parents were cousins and his grandparents were both descended from Hitlers. That is inbred. Pistolpierre (talk) 01:01, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

His parents were first cousins once removed, not just normal cousins (one parents brother or sisters children), you can see his family tree here, this of course presuming Georg Hiedler was his paternal grandfather. His family on both sides were descended from Hitler's after his great-grandparents, the area Hitler's family origin from interbreeding was very common and had happened for years but for you to state his family were "seriously inbred" is beyond a joke and is far to far fetched. Plus, all the information regarding his family tree can be found on the article Hitler family.--Windows66 (talk) 11:16, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

You are admitting that Hitler was inbred. What difference does it make if inbreeding was very common? Pistolpierre (talk) 15:27, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

It depends on the definition of "inbred", certainly his parents were closely related and his paternal grandfather and maternal great-grandfather were brothers. However, it was very common back then and does not qualify as "seriously inbred" as you make out.--Windows66 (talk) 16:46, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Just because inbreeding was common amongst Austrian rural peasants doesn't change the fact that they were inbred. I will let the matter drop since it is obvious you don't think having close relatives breeding with each other qualifies as inbreeding. Pistolpierre (talk) 16:57, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Nobody denies that Hitler's parents were related and in fact so closely related they needed to seek extra permission to be married. But what you said was "seriously inbred", yes they were inbred but not seriously inbred as you make out as say father and daughter incest.--Windows66 (talk) 16:59, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

He was inbred enough for William Shirer to mention it in the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. Pistolpierre (talk) 17:06, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

I never denied they were inbred but they most certainly not seriously inbred.

What is the quote from Shirer's work?--Windows66 (talk) 17:12, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

He simply states that Hitler's parents were cousins who needed special permission from the Church to marry. He then says that the name Hitler and variants of it are in his grandparents lines. Pistolpierre (talk) 17:22, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Can you give me the exact quote? I also am aware of this and I already told you this myself. I even linked you to a family tree of Hitler.--Windows66 (talk) 17:23, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

"The name Hitler appears in the maternal as well as the paternal line. Both Hitler's grandmother on his mother's side and his grandfather on his father's side were named Hitler, or rather variants of it, for the family name was variously written as Hiedler, Huetler, Huettler and Hitler. Adolf's mother was his father's second cousin, and an episcopal dispensation had to be obtained for the marriage." He then says that in that part of Austria, "intermarriage is common, as is the case of Hitler's parents, and illegitimacy is common". Pistolpierre (talk) 17:39, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

So you verified what I said and that they were not 'seriously inbred' as you made out to be, congratulations. What is the relevance of this anyways?--Windows66 (talk) 17:41, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Inbred is inbred. There are degrees. Hitler's parents were not supposed to be married. The Church allowed the marriage. Why do you have a problem with me saying Hitler was inbred? Pistolpierre (talk) 17:50, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

It comes in degrees and you stating that first cousins once removed is "seriously inbred" is far-fetched. His parents were supposed to be married they just had to ask permission that is all. The church allowed the marriage so there you go it was done legally. Because he was hardly 'inbred' but his family were closely related.

Why does this matter anyways?--Windows66 (talk) 19:05, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

It should be obvious. Hitler was a psychopath. He was a raving lunatic. He was inbred. There is a correlation there. I will let the matter rest but I don't think it is a stretch to call him inbred. Google "Hitler inbred". A lot of people believe this. Pistolpierre (talk) 20:18, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

This is getting out of hand and you are clearly NOT listening to what you are being told. Talk pages are not used to discuss peoples personal opinions or anything of the kind but rather to discuss problems with articles and so forth. If you want to label Hitler a psychopath and a raving lunatic then by all means do but not on my page as there is no reason for this. I am not willing to discuss my opinion on you or your comments on Hitler, please refrain from typing any more on my talk page unless absolute necessary, goodbye.--Windows66 (talk) 10:38, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Why do you think I bother to post on your talk page? I am trying to improve the article. The article already says Hitler was a psychopath. Pistolpierre (talk) 16:49, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Not quite, there is a mention of an author of a book who described him as "neurotic psychopath". Anyhow, talking on my talk page is not going to improve the Hitler article so discuss on Hitler's talk page, thanks.--Windows66 (talk) 10:27, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

What is ridiculous?

How is it ridiculous to point out that Wikipedia is undercounting 500,000 victims of the Holocaust? Pistolpierre (talk) 01:05, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

This has been talked about on the talk of the Hitler article, why do you feel the need to create a section on here to discuss it? If you are able to provide several sources for your suggested number then go for it and feel free to post your opinion on the section you created on the talk page of Hitler. I am not here to discuss it here when it is already being done so on that much, you can now kill two birds with one stone and remain to post here.--Windows66 (talk) 11:25, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Windows66. You have new messages at WP:MCQ.
Message added 18:39, 24 November 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

ww2censor (talk) 18:39, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

December 2013

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Nuremberg Laws may have broken the syntax by modifying 2 "[]"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:

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Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 17:22, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

My apologies, thanks for sorting it out for me.--Windows66 (talk) 12:05, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

A suggestion on indenting

Hi Windows66. Sorry if it seems like I'm following you around everywhere you go, but actually I'm not! We both have an interest in Nazi topics, and I've already brought some of our most important articles on the topic to Good Article status and hope to do more. I have watch-listed those articles to keep an eye on them, plus I am monitoring some other articles because of disruptive editors that I have encountered in the past. So I expect we will be seeing a lot of each other!

The reason I am visiting your talk page today is because I would like to suggest that you read Wikipedia:Indentation, an essay that describes talk page conventions as to how we use indentation of our posts to make it clearer who is replying to who. If you have any question about this practice or anything else, please let me know, and I will try to help. Thanks for joining Wikipedia, and thanks for the work you have accomplished so far. Best, -- Diannaa (talk) 18:18, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Haha it's no worries Diannaa I don't think that! I do have other topics I like to gain info on and edit articles related to such but I like to edit on stuff I know about and I am more interested in, I see you also edit similar articles so of course we will bump into each other and that is no problem. I am busy reading about indentation (I take you made this due to the discussion atm on the Nazi Germany article), this is no problems... thanks for helping me I appreciate it greatly. Thanks for welcoming me to Wiki and my work so far, you too!--Windows66 (talk) 18:28, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Edit warring policy

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. You appear to be engaged in an edit war with one or more editors according to your reverts at Black people in Nazi Germany. Although repeatedly reverting or undoing another editor's contributions may seem necessary to protect your preferred version of a page, on Wikipedia this is usually seen as obstructing the normal editing process, and often creates animosity between editors. Instead of edit warring, please discuss the situation with the editor(s) involved and try to reach a consensus on the talk page.

If editors continue to revert to their preferred version they are likely to be blocked from editing. This isn't done to punish an editor, but to prevent the disruption caused by edit warring. In particular, editors should be aware of the three-revert rule, which says that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. While edit warring on Wikipedia is not acceptable in any amount, breaking the three-revert rule is very likely to lead to a block. Thank you. -- Diannaa (talk) 15:55, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Please, stop trimming Wikipedia from valuable information.

Hello. I have been following your edits for some time. I come from Poland. I see you have been recently damaging many information about Poles during the Holocaust and generally WWII. You are constantly persistent in wiping all the data connected with the German Nazi racial hierarchy and Poles discriminated along with the Jews and Gypsies. Why are you doing this? I agree, Poles were seen as Aryans, but not pure. They were the "lower-class" Aryans, and, eventually - the "Slavic subhuman" which was analogical to the "Jewish subhuman". Why are you trying to prove that Poles were not persecuted on the racial surface at all? You delete all the valuable data about Racism against Poles. Why is this so important to you to delete it all? I see you are attacking User_talk:Yatzhek by persuading other users to give him warnings without a strong reason, while you can freely continue this degradation of the Polish struggles, racism against them, and Nazi propaganda. At one point I must disagree with Yatzhek, Poles were Aryan, but I also disagree with you my friend, because Poles were not "pure" Aryans and Germans saw them as "not pure enough". The "eastern masses" theory is a fact. If you continue trimming Wikipedia from some specific and sourced information, I will warn the Wikipedia administration about your detrimental edits. 91.218.158.26 (talk) 08:14, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

It seems quite apparent now that you are also the user Yatzhek. I have no removed anything from the article Anti-Polish sentiment which can be shown in the history of edits here. The reason I am removing it from the Black people in Nazi Germany article is because it does not belong there and is not correct because no "racial theory" was used against Poles.--Windows66 (talk) 15:14, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

i have been watching your argument with "yatzhek" for quite a while. as far as I see, the user "91.218.158.26" said that you are removing things from other articles that are a b o u t racism against poles, not the article itself. besides, i have noticed that you groundlessly accuse the user "yatzhek" and arrange things your way to ban everyone who is on your way. listen mate, i will not tolerate this kind of behaviour on wikipedia. i must point our one thing; in fact the edit by "91.218.158.26" in the article Black people in Nazi Germany is quite reasonable that's why i am reverting it to the previous state. greetings from czech republic.

78.8.118.133 (talk) 16:38, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

The reason its being removed is because it simply does not belong in the article of Black people in Nazi Germany. Black people were discriminated on the grounds of race and were mentioned in the Nuremberg racial laws - Poles were not. I don't want to have anyone banned that do not agree with me but when I get accused of being a white supremacist, a racist, anti-Polish and a Holocaust denier then yes I do want action taken.--Windows66 (talk) 17:29, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Windows66 -- Poles were also called a "race". Here, a real and wide-known quote:

"Thus, for the time being only in the east, I put ready my Death's Head units, with the order to kill without pity or mercy all men, women, and children of the Polish race or language. Only thus will we gain the living space that we need. Who still talks nowadays of the extermination of the Armenians?" - from "The Obersalzberg Speech" by Adolf Hitler -

why it does not belong to the "Black people in Nazi Germany" article?? You are confusing words prejudice with racism and persecution with racial laws. it was stated in the article that this type of prejudice or repression against Blacks was similar to the one which Poles were facing in the form of Antipolonism in the Germany during the Nazi rule. What's wrong about that? Wasn't that true? It certainly is and you are denying it by deleting it and i support Yatzhek at this point. I disagree with this Wikipedist only about Poles being non-Aryan. And, no, you was not accused for white supremacism, antipolonism and Holocaust-denial. you make a big problem about it and a large scandal, while as i see you was just asked about it or speculated about it to get some information about you, not accused for it. a supposition and a question differs from a affirmative sentence my friend. 91.218.158.26 (talk) 08:48, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

You might want to check the authenticity of that quote.

From the same article:

Three documents grouped together during Nuremberg Trials which were containing Hitler's speech on 22 August 1939 (1014-PS, 789-PS,and L-3,) and only the document L-3 contained Armenian quote of the Hitler's speech. Documents 1014-PS and 798-PS were captured by the United States forces inside the OKW headquarters but these documents did not contain the Armenian quote. On May 16, 1946, during the Nurnberg War Tribunals, a counsel for one of the defendants, Dr. Walter Siemers requested from the president of the trial to strike out the document 1014-PS, but his request was rejected by the president. Document L-3 was brought to the court by an American journalist, Louis P. Lochner.

According to Louis P. Lochner, while stationed in Berlin he received a copy of a speech by Hitler from his "informant", which he published (in English translation) in his book What About Germany? (New York: Dodd, Mead & Co., 1942) as being indicative of Hitler's desire to conquer the world. In 1945, Lochner handed over a transcript of the German document he had received to the prosecution at the Nuremberg trials, where it was labeled L-3. Hence it is known as the L-3 document. The speech is also found in a footnote to notes about a speech Hitler held in Obersalzberg on 22 August 1939 that were published in the German Foreign Policy documents.

When asked in the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal who his source was, Lochner said this was a German called "Herr Maasz" but gave vague information about him.

The Times of London quoted from Lochner's version in an unsigned article titled The War Route of the Nazi Germany on November 24, 1945. The article stated that it had been brought forward by the prosecutor on November 23, 1945, (i.e. the previous day), as evidence. However, according to the Akten zur deutschen auswärtigen Politik (ser. D, vol. 7, 1961), the document was not introduced as evidence before the International Military Tribunal and is not included in the official publication of the documents in evidence. Two other documents containing minutes of Hitler's Obersalzberg speech(es) had been found among the seized German documents and were introduced as evidence; neither, however, contains the Armenian quote.

See The Obersalzberg Speech. The translations of the alleged quote vary the word race to heritage, descent, ancestry, etc. Poles were never once labeled a race.

Poles were never considered a separate "race" by the race laws of the Third Reich whereas the Jews, Gypsies and blacks were and were non-Aryans; this was not the case with ethnic Poles. In fact, although not 100% certain but I've never found Poles be described as a race by Nazi propaganda either (although I could be wrong - but I don't think I am).--Windows66 (talk) 15:52, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

I was not accused of racism, anti-Polish, white supremacy or Holocaust denial? See this.--Windows66 (talk) 16:04, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Hi. I simply don't understand your persistance and intensity of your changing and wiping everything which is connected with Poles seen as lower-class people ("subhuman", along with Jews, Gypsies, Blacks, Serbs and most of other Slavic people), and I guess you wish Wikipedia was free of information concerning the Nazi persecution of Poles in the racial context, all you would leave is the political context which is highly biased. I don't understand how can you simply deny the fact, that Poles, as well as most of the Slavic people, were also persecuted in light of their racial origin as Slavs. You denied racism against Poles by blocking me to write not even a full sentence about it as a similar phenomenon to the persecution of Blacks in Nazi Germany, when you said it is "not the same" and that "Poles were Aryan". You forgot, that "Aryan" didn't mean "ubermensch". You claim that Hitler and the Nazis seen Poles and all other Slavs as pure Aryans such as Germans and the Germanic nations, and that Slavs were way above Gypsies in the racial hierarchy. This is a lie, while Gypsies were Aryan too, Hitler was terrified by the thought that the amount of Aryan blood in Gypsies could be even higher that in Germans themselves. Anyway, I saw your contributions and realised you search for information about persecutions of Poles by Nazis, delete some things (even with sources given) which are about Poles being treated similarily to Jews and Gypsies, and that's why I speculated on your antipolish views. But, as I said before, if you will let it go and stop your neverending attacks and spying me, I will let it go either and never again write you a single word. Since I gave you a hand to make peace, all I do is defending myself as you continue to attack me by posting me new messages as well as by convincing other users to give me warnings. Just STOP. I had enough. Please. Yatzhek (talk) 22:13, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Oh give up will you. I've yet to find any evidence of the Poles being labeled as untermensch, I know of no evidence to support this. Slavic people were not targeted because of their racial origin, by the Third Reich all Europeans including the Slavic people were racially the same (this is by the law - comments of "Asiatic" "Mongols" was sometimes used against the Russians though). You might want to come to terms with the brutality the Poles and Poland suffered was nothing to do with Poles being Slavs but rather that Poland/Poles refused to accept Hitler's terms of being an ally against the Soviet Union and also the conflicts and debates regarding territory. I never denied that Poles suffered racism during the war and they did with German nationalist slogans posted all over occupied-Poland with "Only for Germans" and the alike. But racially as in race not ethnic group the Poles were not targeted despite what some historians and authors like to say. I think you need to read the race laws in regards to the Gypsies. Gypsies were considered to be too racially mixed and non-Aryan. Gypsies were NOT Aryan by the Nazis. See Porajmos Aryan racial purity, The Gypsies were seen as originally Aryan peoples but were mixed with non-Aryan peoples and were racially mixed non-Aryans. Please give me some evidence of where I delete things that are backed up by sources. I've never even mentioned "ubermensch" in any of our discussion, perhaps YOU should understand 'Aryan' and 'UNTERMENSCH' are also separate concepts and not always racial, for example the communists were regarded as untermensch yet that could even mean a German communist. I've not attacked you, I have just made an investigation as to the random IP addresses that appear to be your sock puppets hence why I reported you. Spy on you? Get real, this is Wikipedia its open to everyone and I'm in my right to see your contributions just like you can to me as well, what is the problem? Convincing others to give you warnings, haha....don't break the rules and then you won't get warned you didn't just accuse me of being anti-Polish (which is a violation anyways) but also of white supremacy, racist and Holocaust denial and you're whining that you got a warning, don't say such stupid things in the first place then.--Windows66 (talk) 16:05, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

OK. Regardless your personal attacks on me, just to the main topic - You have stated that there is no evidence that Poles were untermenschen. Here, just one out of hundrens - found after a few seconds of searching: http://web.archive.org/web/20110409034704/http://www.dac.neu.edu/holocaust/Hitlers_Plans.htm

The category of sub-human (Untermensch) included Slavic peoples (Poles, Russians, Serbs, etc.) Gypsies and Jews. TOP

"To avoid mistakes which might subsequently occur in the selection of subjects suitable for 'Germanization,' the RuSHA [The Race and Settlement Head Office] in 1942 distributed a pamphlet, The Sub-Human, to those responsible for that selection. 3,860,995 copies were printed in German alone and it was translated into Greek, French, Dutch, Danish, Bulgarian, Hungarian and Czech and seven other languages. It stated:

The sub-human, that biologically seemingly complete similar creation of nature with hands, feet and a kind of brain, with eyes and a mouth, is nevertheless a completely different, dreadful creature. He is only a rough copy of a human being, with human-like facial traits but nonetheless morally and mentally lower than any animal. Within this creature there is a fearful chaos of wild, uninhibited passions, nameless destructiveness, the most primitive desires, the nakedest vulgarity. Sub-human, otherwise nothing. For all that bear a human face are not equal. Woe to him who forgets it." 1 The Nazis acknowledged that among the sub-humans, (especially among their leaders) there were those few who had obvious traces of Aryan-Nordic ancestry; however, it was decided that most of these people would have to be destroyed in order to leave the inferior races without leadership. It was possible that some of these superior people could be "germanized" -- but if not, one should at least preserve the good blood in their children. By this logic, many thousands of Polish children were subjected to a racial test. Those who had what Nazis defined as "Aryan" characteristics -- such as blue eyes, blond hair, a properly proportioned head, good behavior and above average intelligence -- were kidnapped from their parents and shipped to Germany for ultimate adoption by appropriate German families.

— Selections from Janusz Gumkowkski's and Kazimierz Leszczynski's publication "POLAND UNDER NAZI OCCUPATION"

The authors gave sources and wrote this book in a highly neutral and objective manner. AND NOW... I have two questions for you.

• First one: As it is stated in the above quote, only those Polish CHILDREN, who had the features which Germans considered "Aryan", were taken away from their families and sent to Germany for the German adoption in order to Germanise them. There was some mercy only for them and the people of "Aryan look" and not for other Slavic Poles (2 millions of whom were killed during the Holocaust). Now if all the Poles were considered Aryan, then I goess there wouldn't be no hundreds of thousands of Polish children murdered by the Nazis and these 2 million deaths of ethnic Poles. What do you think about that?
• Second question from me to you:

German planners had in November 1939 called for "the complete destruction" of all Poles. "All Poles will disappear from the world"

— http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust#Non-Jewish

Poles as Slavs were the main victims of Nazism in Europe during the World War II, right after the Jews and Gypsies. Do you agree with that? Thank you.

Yatzhek (talk) 17:39, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Personal attacks? No I just find it hilarious how you're still commenting on a topic created by the IP 91.218.158.26, not you by any chance no?

The website regarding the Subhuman pamphlet and including Slavs such as Poles is one person's opinion not an actual speech or document from a Nazi calling Poles "untermenschen". Nowhere in that pamphlet says any Slavic ethnic groups nor is Slav/Slavic/Slavs mentioned. Can you provide a speech or document calling Poles untermenschen (which is what I asked in the first place)? The children taken away were presumed to be of German (or at least Germanic) descent because of their Nordic-Aryan appearance not just "Aryan" (no such physical appearance of a typical 'Aryan' existed or exists), don't confuse Nordic with Aryan. You seem to think all the people killed in the Holocaust were for their racial origins, this is not the case. All ethnic Poles were indeed considered Aryan by the Nazis and the term 'Aryan side' was used on the side of ethnic Poles throughout all the brutality and murdering of ethnic Poles. Just because Poles were killed by the Nazis does not mean they were not Aryan, how are you even confusing the two - the first people placed into the concentration camps and killed were German communists, does that mean they were not Aryan too neither?

I do not agree that Slavic people as a group were the main victims after Jews and Gypsies.--Windows66 (talk) 17:54, 12 February 2014 (UTC)