Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Furkan Doğan: Difference between revisions

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Furkan Doğan

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This is not a notable topic per WP:ONEEVENT and WP:MEMORIAL. Marokwitz (talk) 14:42, 13 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Certainly a notable event, but his role was minor per WP:ONEVENT Movementarian (Talk) 16:22, 13 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Please remind that WP:ONEEVENT says "..On the other hand, if an event is of sufficient importance, even relatively minor participants may require their own articles..", and this case, an American citizen killed by IDF is notable because of possibilty change in US - Israel relations. Sezerpal (talk) 09:07, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

His role was getting killed, a sad as that is. He was not a major player in the events. By your rationale, every person that died in the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks should have thier own page because it significantly changed relations between the United States and numerous other nations. Movementarian (Talk) 14:00, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Significant amount of media coverage. PatGallacher (talk) 17:45, 13 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Turkey-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 19:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 19:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per impact on US - Israeli relations, continuing news coverage. Pohick2 (talk) 21:41, 13 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Article Israel – United States relations should cover such information. And wikipedia is WP:NOTNEWS. --Kslotte (talk) 22:18, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Question: I'm going to hold off on making a recommendation for a moment. Not everyone in List of participants of the Gaza flotilla needs a separate article. Given that this person appears to have no notability outside of being shot and killed during the Gaza flotilla raid, could someone offer further information as to why this is not simply an unnecessary fork of that article? Location (talk) 22:27, 13 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete or merge and redirect. Classic example of WP:BIO1E, and no reason has been given as to why the information about this subject needs to stand outside of Gaza flotilla raid. Relevant information should be merged with the primary article or, as Kslotte has suggested, Reactions to the Gaza flotilla raid or Israel – United States relations. The "keep" votes have cited "significant media coverage" which alone is not enough for an appropriate fork. Location (talk) 04:19, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete What is Furkan Doğan's claim to fame? Being a notable, world renowned peace activist or for being killed by Israel? Chesdovi (talk) 11:02, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Category:American unarmed civilian citizens killed by IDF & Rachel Corrie --Pohick2 (talk) 12:45, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  - Corries' death was subsequently used as propaganda to such an extent which made it viable to have a page about her. It is the murder here which is claimed as being notable. But is it notable enough for inclusion on wiki? Chesdovi (talk) 13:55, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    - i see the "propaganda" beginning already, follow-on media reports name him, although his memoir is not published yet Pohick2 (talk) 13:41, 15 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      - Provide what you are referring to and add it to the article. Nothing notable enough isn't found in the article at the moment. --Kslotte (talk) 20:48, 15 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Even 16 days after Corries death, I don't think that article was really warranted. Why was Corrie notable then? These articles which evolve over time, are thinly veiled memorial pages which have bo place here. Chesdovi (talk)
Merge, delete and redirect Article should be deleted because it doesn't met WP:PEOPLE, per WP:ONEEVENT (Gaza flotilla raid) and WP:MEMORIAL (Martyrdom). Gaza flotilla raid article covers his death and autopsy. Relevant aftermath can be merged (if not found already) into Reactions to the Gaza flotilla raid. Redirect to Gaza flotilla raid. --Kslotte (talk) 22:32, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Getting killed in a notable event does not make you notable. Edward321 (talk) 13:54, 15 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete & merge per WP:BIO1E & WP:MEMORIAL & WP:NOTNEWS (cf: Turkish Language Wikipedia) Takabeg (talk) 14:59, 15 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Significant international media coverage IJA (talk) 17:35, 15 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The "Significant international media coverage" is about the whole flotila incident, not Dogan in particular. Chesdovi (talk) 10:30, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Several of the editors who are proposing deletion seem to have overlooked the main point in favor of Doğan's notability, that he was the only American citizen killed in the raid. The geopolitical significance of Doğan's death has been noted by several reliable sources. For example, the Christian Science Monitor:

Though Dogan’s ongoing American ties appear to be limited, the death of a US citizen will make it harder for the Obama administration to side-step a diplomatic confrontation with Israel.[1]

The Dallas Morning News;

The diplomatic drama over Israel's assault widened when one of the dead was identified as 19-year-old Furkan Dogan, who had dual U.S.-Turkish citizenship.[2]

The New York Daily News::

The death of an American citizen in the botched Israeli commando raid put pressure on the Jewish state Thursday to ease its Gaza naval blockade. [3]

This is not a case of WP:MEMORIAL. I don't know Doğan or anyone in his family, and there is no indication that any involved editor here does. As for WP:ONEEVENT, that policy applies to people who play minor roles in significant events. Doğan's role was anything but minor. Kslotte has said that some of the information about Doğan should be in Gaza flotilla raid, and some in Israel – United States relations. This is telling: the fact that Doğan is pertinant to two different Wikipedia articles underlies his significance. Not just the circumstances of his death, but the actions which led to it, his background, and his motivation are all notable and worthy subject matter for an article. Sanguinalis (talk) 10:37, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Do only America's dead count? The relations between Israel and each county whose citizens died will naturally be affected. Both USA and Turkey are allies of Israel. This page should be merged. Dogen is not notable in himself. His killing is. Chesdovi (talk) 10:45, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Chesdovi said it well: "Dogen is not notable in himself. His killing is." And the killing is part of Gaza flotilla raid. He wasn't killed on "personal basis". --Kslotte (talk) 12:44, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Vote 'Merge then. No need for separate article. Chesdovi (talk)

The question isn't whose death "counts" but who meets the Wikipedia notability guidelines. They all have to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. Sanguinalis (talk) 02:46, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep US media discovered execution video; [Dave Lindorff's article http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/node/95], Even this long discussion proves that is NOTABLE. --Sezerpal (talk) 21:25, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- And how reliable is that source? And the victum can't be identified in that video. --Kslotte (talk) 22:10, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  - It will be clear after independent investigation (if Israel accepts) but [ autopsy reports http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/04/gaza-flotilla-attack-autopsy-results ], eye withnes accounts about where victim killed gives higher possibilty. I have Turkish sources, mostly video testimonies, I will try to collect and translate. Sezerpal (talk) 09:04, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    - Dogen is a non-notable subject in himself. Any relevant infomation should obvioulsy be merged to the main page. Dogan has not become a posthumously famous martyr, as the likes of Corrie. Chesdovi (talk) 10:31, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Significant international media coverage about this shooting incident. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.95.176.104 (talk) 01:51, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- "Significant". I don't think so. This item of news filled the usual space such a thing would do in the press. I am sure the ratio of this item to that of the rest of the news in the papers is not that significant at all. Wiki is not a newspaper, that belongs over at wikinews. Should we have a page about Conservative plans to introduce a one pint drink/drive limit as it made the front page headlines and will be in the news for a short while? Chesdovi (talk) 10:31, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Merge As the one who contested an earlier PROD to give the article and news sources time to settle, I can't say the article is currently in a state worth remaining separate. Its information should be rolled into the articles mentioned above. If Dogan becomes a propaganda figure like Corrie sometime in the future, then he may warrant his own article. But not until in-depth discussions of his background and life appear in reliable sources. Dragoneer (talk) 02:35, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The shooting video makes him as important as Rachel Corrie. (though it is still not clear it is him who was shot there in the video Kavas (talk) 22:49, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

R Corrie is not important. Neither was her death. It was the cult that arose in the months and years after her death. It is not for nothing that M al-Durah page was renamed to Muhammad al-Durrah incident. Many young boys have unfortunatly been killed. It was the footage of this and the subsequent controversy that made it a unique "incident". al-Durrah's shooting without the video is not notable. Even if footage exists of events on the flotilla, it is the whole episode which carries notability, not the shooting of one participant. Chesdovi (talk) 23:11, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 37: / Line 37: @@
 ::: Chesdovi said it well: "Dogen is not notable in himself. His killing is." And the killing is part of [[Gaza flotilla raid]]. He wasn't killed on "personal basis". --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 12:44, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
 ::::Vote '''Merge'' then. No need for separate article. [[User:Chesdovi|Chesdovi]] ([[User talk:Chesdovi|talk]])
+:: The question isn't whose death "counts" but who meets the Wikipedia notability guidelines. They all have to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. [[User:Sanguinalis|Sanguinalis]] ([[User talk:Sanguinalis|talk]]) 02:46, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
 *'''Keep''' US media discovered execution video; [Dave Lindorff's article http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/node/95], Even this long discussion proves that is NOTABLE.  --[[User:Sezerpal|Sezerpal]] ([[User talk:Sezerpal|talk]]) 21:25, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
 ** And how reliable is that source? And the victum can't be identified in that video. --[[User:Kslotte|Kslotte]] ([[User talk:Kslotte|talk]]) 22:10, 16 June 2010 (UTC)