Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Aaliyah/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Karanacs 17:44, 2 February 2010 [1].

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Aaliyah

Nominator(s): — ξ^xplicit 20:11, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

• Featured article candidates/Aaliyah/archive1

I am nominating this for featured article because I feel that this article meets all requirements to become a featured article. Several months and hard research and dedication have gone into this article and I would like to get this through the "final" phase. Thank you. — ξ^xplicit 20:11, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments by an odd name

• Some of the citations, like ref 80, contain quotes before the citation data. (I think they're quotes, because they have statements like "Actually, she's a streetwise Jackson with a far more soulful song selection" that aren't neutral.) Consider putting the quotes in the |quote= attribute of {{cite web}}, etc., instead. (You will then need to change double quotation marks within them to single ones if that's done.) I'm not sure it's required by the criteria (which demand consistency above all), but it's hard to tell they are actually quotes from the sources and not extra encyclopedic notes. --an odd name 20:23, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

  Fixed. — ξ^xplicit 20:30, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Cool. More stuff:

• No dab links or dead external links—good.
• Alt text looks good. The portrait alt looks slightly boring, but describes the subject well and I'm not sure if it can be improved (see WP:ALT#Portraits). Anyone else here have a second opinion?
• Most dates are Month Day, Year throughout, but I changed some ISO style dates—make sure they are one format on text and one (same or different) format in refs.

--an odd name 21:59, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support - A nice variation from the usual articles, however, I wouldn't consider the prose near the top of the article to be at FA quality (ie down to the beginning of Posthumous career). If you could contact an independent copyeditor, that would be nice. The rest of the article is good. I've given my nitpicks below.
• She attended a Catholic school, Gesu Elementary, where she received a part in the stage play Annie in first grade; from then on, she was determined to be an entertainer.[7] - maybe better as became instead of was?

  Seems this was correct by yourself? — ξ^xplicit 21:29, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

• Aaliyah's mother was a vocalist, - Do you know what type? Not particularly significant, obviously, but could be helpful

  Not haven't found too much information about her mother's background, I'm afraid. — ξ^xplicit 21:29, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

• She had the role of an ancient vampire, Queen Akasha, which she described as a "manipulative, crazy, sexual being".[11] - "had" the role?

  Changed "had" to "played". — ξ^xplicit 21:29, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Otherwise, looks great. Good work. ceranthor 20:52, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments: mostly fine citations, needs a little polish only.

Check your citations for titles, such as MTV News which appears to function as a magazine, ie if cite web |title=MTV News or MTV News if manual. Same with the following: Slant Magazine; CNN.com; BBC News; etc. You may want to check if CBS News; ABC News (which ABC pray tell? You mean ABC News [USA]) functions as if a newspaper or magazine.

I'm not aware that any of these websites have publications (Slant Magazine is a bit tricky; they're an online magazine with no publications whatsoever). — ξ^xplicit 21:29, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

A publication is about its mode of presentation, not its physical format. BBC News online acts as a Newspaper. An online magazine that acts as a an edited magazine is a magazine not a website. A novel if online is a book not a website. Fifelfoo (talk) 07:16, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Unpublished report, ""NTSB Identification: MIA01RA225". National Transportation Safety Board. Retrieved June 11, 2009" remove quotes from around the title, consider cite report if using cite book type style. (Quotes and Italics indicate publication in an ISSN/ISBN/utterance for public consumption manner).

Now using {{cite report}} template. — ξ^xplicit 21:29, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Bad citation. Article in title field, title (Billboard) missing, "Pesselnick, Jill (November 17, 2001). Madonna Earns Another RIAA Diamond. 113. Nielsen Business Media. p. 69. ISSN 0006-2510. Retrieved May 15, 2009."

Speaking of, why aren't you using volume, page, ISSN for all Billboard sources then?

Corrected title. This was the only information that wasn't obtainable on billboard.com. — ξ^xplicit 21:29, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

The Daily Telegraph. I think you mean The Daily Telegraph [UK]. no?

Yes, but does the [UK] need to be added? The article The Daily Telegraph is about the UK newspaper. — ξ^xplicit 21:29, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes the UK does need to be added. Newspapers also called The Daily Telegraph are major daily newspapers of note in other nations as well. Fifelfoo (talk) 07:16, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Generally you're over linking news source titles, and inconsistently linking the first or all. Go over and either link all, or only the first occurance, or none.

I believe these were referring to the citations that used the {{harvnb}} template. I've unlinked all. — ξ^xplicit 21:29, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Generally fine, this are polish (except that Bad citation). Fifelfoo (talk) 11:25, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Image concerns:

• File:Aaliyah - More Than a Woman sample.ogg: I am not enamoured with inserting a sound bite that is accompanied by critical commentary in the form of a caption. It seems to render the music (a crucial part of her legacy) insignificant. Could not the commentary be worked into her Legacy section. User:Sfan00 IMG has tagged for further reduction of this sample. Please contact him to check if he has issues with the length or the fidelity of the sample (can either one or the other be reduced further?).

  The critical commentary on this specific clip is also in the text. I'll leave Sfan00 IMG (talk · contribs) a note. — ξ^xplicit 21:29, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

• File:Aaliyah - If Your Girl Only Knew sample.ogg: same as the above clip.

  I'll try to get to this later on today. — ξ^xplicit 21:29, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

I have fixed up some bits of File:Aaliyah in blue.jpg to comply with NFCC, so it should be fine. File:Ferncliff.jpg is verifiably in the public domain, thanks in part to the EXIF data that identifies it as a video cam shot. Jappalang (talk) 12:55, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments:

• "... began to film for her second film ..."

  Reads rather awkward (repetition of "film").

  Reworded to "After completing Romeo Must Die, Aaliyah began to work on her second film..." — ξ^xplicit 21:29, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

• "With the release of the Matrix Ultimate Collection series, clips of Aaliyah were included in the tribute section."

  Suggest changing this to "Aaliyah's scenes were later included in the tribute section of the Matrix Ultimate Collection series."

  Done. — ξ^xplicit 21:29, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

• "... which led women in the United States and Japan to utilize her look."

  What does "utilize her look" mean?

  It basically means that women dress similarly (if not exactly) to how she did. Not too sure how to reword it. — ξ^xplicit 21:29, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

  Suggestion: "She often wore black clothing, starting a trend for similar fashion among women in United States and Japan." Jappalang (talk) 22:11, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

  Reworded. — ξ^xplicit 04:03, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

• Farley, Kenyetta, and Sutherland have mentioned Aaliyah's involvement in charities, especially in her early life.[2] Why is this not explored?

  I'll give this a try a bit later today. — ξ^xplicit 21:29, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

  I've added some bits. — ξ^xplicit 02:42, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

  Although stricken, I think there should be further exploration into this; one source, for example, made comments that her early charity work influenced her character. Jappalang (talk) 03:16, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

• This source explains Aaliyah's Arabic name, which seems interesting. Why is it not used?

  I personally found this trivial. Additionally, other publications have stated what her name means in Swahali (same outcome, but difference languages). It seemed best to just leave it out. — ξ^xplicit 21:29, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

  Okay, but I will leave this unstruck, in case others think otherwise. Jappalang (talk) 03:16, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

From a casual read through. Jappalang (talk) 12:55, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Support Please add the {{Harvnb}} template to the book references as a number of books are being used to refer and it would be difficult to find a particular one at one go. Also consider using {{refbegin}} and {{refend}} templates for the book references section as that would make the section look tight and constrict. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 07:10, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

• Just a point here about citation templates. There's nothing in the policies or guidelines that says they ought to be used, and many editors prefer that they not be used. They can cause problems, including slowing down page loading considerably. SlimVirgin ^{TALK contribs} 23:26, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

  For what it's worth, {{Harvnb}} is in use. The ref parameter was adjusted to not display blue links; see comments above. — ξ^xplicit 21:11, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

  No problems. Its not absolutely necessary, just the feel enhancer. The article is still FA worthy without it. So I support it. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 11:24, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Source comments Everything fine.

• Slant should always be cited like this: Slant
• If you're going to include both work and publisher for print media, then make sure all instances have it. I think a few are missing publisher.
• Books only used once have to be placed in the notes rather than the ref section. It's a bit cumbersome especially when they're only cited once.

RB88 (T) 02:16, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

• All done, except the last. Is this preference or something that's generally practiced? — ξ^xplicit 21:11, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

  It's widely practised and I encourage it here. It helps organisation and reader ease. RB88 (T) 00:04, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

  Wasn't aware there were so many... ate up half the list. But anywho, done. — ξ^xplicit 01:43, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

  Great, but I think you've pasted over the page numbers. Make sure to put them back in, in the ref this time. RB88 (T) 01:58, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

  D'oh! Restored. — ξ^xplicit 02:07, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support - Well written and nicely presented article that I feel meets the FA criteria. Pyrrhus16 23:51, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
• Support - the prose needed some minor tweaking but no deal-breakers remain that I can see. Comprehensive. Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:11, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

• Comment I found this interesting and generally well written, although it still has some prose and organization problems. Organizationally, some of the paragraphs don't stick to their subject. For example, one paragraph includes info on her burial and the NTSB investigation. These shouldn't be together, paragraph-wise, or subheading wise, probably. There are many cases of tangled verb tenses. For example, she would sing at weddings (etc.), and in the next sentence, we hear she is 5. She was raised along side her brother....ummmm....and what precisely does that mean. She and her brother were raised in Detroit Michigan (or where ever it was)? It really could use another once-over by the editor, or someone. Otherwise, it's a very interesting article, nicely done. Just those comments, and if it could be tightened up writing wise, I'll support. Auntieruth55 (talk) 01:44, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

  A bit of clean up was done. Hopefully things are smoother. — ξ^xplicit 22:59, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support Excellent and comprehensive article. I was impressed with it a couple months ago when I first read it, so it was a pleasant surprise to notice it at FAC now. rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 14:54, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

• Comment. Article contains invalid HTML, which can be found in the W3C validator report for it; can you please fix this? Thanks. Eubulides (talk) 08:22, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

  The invalid HTML seems to be generated from the headings that begin with numbers ("1979–1990: Early life", for example). This seems a bit odd to me as these aren't errors. — ξ^xplicit 22:59, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support I like the balance of detail and concision here. I was expecting an insanely long fan-driven piece and found instead a well-calibrated treatment of her life and career. Prose has some issues, but they are largely mitigated by the manageable length of the article. Eusebeus (talk) 09:24, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.