Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2008 June 11: Difference between revisions

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June 11

Image:Flag of France (bordered).svg

Image:Flag of France (bordered).svg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by PatrikR (notify | contribs).

Obsolete and orphaned. No need for this image when you can simply use the border attribute with Image:Flag of France.svg. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 21:13, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
commons while the borders argument may be valid for use in WP, it may be useful in other wikimedia projects Fasach Nua (talk) 06:01, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure I follow that argument. Wikimedia image syntax is the same on all projects. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 22:05, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The image can be used in projects outside of wikimedia, the joy of the GFDL! Fasach Nua (talk) 07:30, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, as Andrwsc points out it's not needed at Commons either. —An gr 21:30, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
...and Commons should be a dumping ground for images we don't want just because they are PD. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 22:25, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Human feces2.jpg

Image:Human feces2.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Weatherman90 (notify | contribs).

Orphaned, now used for vandalism. Blanchardb-^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}-timed 19:47, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am removing one of them from the article and getting them low resolution-ized. That should keep them in conformity of with WP:NFCC#2. A week old discussion on Elcobbola's talk page should clear the air. Also a special thanks to Kelly, for informing me about this deletion on my talk page.

Actually, I'm afraid that we can't use them even at low resolution. The problem is that they're from a news agency which is in the business of selling their photographs. When we use them here, we dilute their market value (at least in theory). Kelly ^hi! 04:19, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have now nominated Image:Mumbai_violence_20080205.jpg for speedy deletion per {{db-author}} KnowledgeHegemonyPart2 (talk) 05:39, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Assatatrial.jpg

Image:Assatatrial.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Savidan (notify | contribs).

Associated Press photo, fails WP:NFCC#2. Kelly ^hi! 02:27, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was Deleted, derivative work of copyrighted material. —An gr 21:30, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Laughing_man_-_Chicago_Sticker_Graffiti_.jpg

Image:Laughing_man_-_Chicago_Sticker_Graffiti_.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by User:Victorgrigas (notify | contribs).

* DELETE This is a photograph of a copyrighted image. This is also the third time that Laughing Man has placed this image on his page. The first attempt was [1]deleted here, the second attempt was also [2]deleted. He brought it right back again and it was speedied [3] June 9 However at that time the administrator who deleted it previously stated he could not find that it was a copyvio from the link provided, he reverted the request for speedy. I placed it back up with a link to the site this image actually comes from with an instruction as to where this image appears. The speedy was again reverted by Admin John on June 10. The image is a copy of the "smiling face" image used in the Anime series "Ghost in the shell" in particular, is used by the character named "The laughing man", and even though the exact image is not being used, he's using is a photograph of a bumper sticker which is that image, and therefore, it's still a copyrighted image and therefore it cannot exist in userspace at all. The original image (as near as I can find it) exists [4] here I am requesting that this image be deleted and The Laughing Man be warned about gaming the system and / or recreating deleted material. F.U.R hurts Wikipedia 13:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by declining admin I originally deleted this, but I shouldn't have done in my opinion. The image is graffiti that has original lighting, distance and colour. It is similar to the logo, but not in a way that it can be perceived as a copyvio. In my opinion this is a very sketchy copyright claim. PeterSymonds (talk) 13:47, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

KoshVorln statements for the most part are very misleading and very inaccurate. The only that I created was from over a year ago, and completely different from the image listed for deletion by KoshVorln, and totally unrelated to this image. The image listed here is a photograph taken by User:Victorgrigas who has contributed many of his photographs for use on Wikipedia, all of which are very generously licensed. The "second" image was a cropped version of his image that I uploaded, and licensed under the same license the original image, with a reference to the source of an image. PeterSymonds has stated his opinion on that matter above in retrospect of reviewing the original photograph. I certainly do not appriciate KoshVorln's lack of good faith and furthermore misrepresentation of the facts in this mater, all of which can easily be verified. // laughing man 23:01, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Laughing Man, please read this. You have a copyrighted image on your page. Copyrighted images are not allowed on userpages per policy. I'm tagging it and asking that it be removed per policy. No bad faith about it.

The only bad faith here is your putting it back on your page after it was deleted. Just say "NO" to [WP:FUR|FUR 16:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Image:InHerOwnWrite.JPG

Image:InHerOwnWrite.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by ConoscoTutto (notify | contribs).

Image is being used to illustrate a discography, which is specifically listed as unacceptable use of a non-free image. The fair use rationale states that it is being used to identify the living person on the cover, which is also an unacceptable use of the non-free image. Papa November (talk) 15:03, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:LiveInConcert.jpg

Image:LiveInConcert.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by MovieMadness (notify | contribs).

Per WP:NFC#Images_2, non-free images cannot be used to show what a living person looks like. This image is only used in the infobox of the article, and the concert it advertises is not the subject of that article. Papa November (talk) 17:38, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:PCDuets.jpg

Image:PCDuets.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by SFTVLGUY2 (notify | contribs).

Non-free album cover image is only being used to illustrate a discography, which is explicitly against non-free content policy Papa November (talk) 17:58, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Solitude&Sunshine.jpg

Image:Solitude&Sunshine.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by ConoscoTutto (notify | contribs).

Non-free album cover image is only being used to illustrate a discography, which is explicitly against non-free content policy Papa November (talk) 17:59, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

speedy delete - copyrighted image of living person Fasach Nua (talk) 05:58, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Torchwood ep 1 Eve Myles.jpg

Image:Torchwood ep 1 Eve Myles.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Bastique (notify | contribs).

- Not fair use. This is illustrative but not informative and the precise description of the scene portrayed is not essential to the reader's understanding of the subject. Unjustifiable. fails wp:nfc#8, by a long way. Troikoalogo (talk) 21:46, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I tend to agree with the assessment. It doesn't capture a specific moment of the plot to tell the story all by it's lonesome. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 22:06, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
delete could be from any episode, does not meet WP:NFC#8 Fasach Nua (talk) 05:53, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Ghostmachine.jpg

Image:Ghostmachine.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Khaosworks (notify | contribs).

Not fair use. This is illustrative but not informative and the precise description of the scene portrayed is not essential to the reader's understanding of the subject. Unjustifiable. fails wp:nfc#8, by a long way. Troikoalogo (talk) 21:47, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I disagree with the assessment. It captures a specific (and significant) part of the plot, illustrating the story all by it's lonesome. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 22:07, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
delete - ill chosen image that fails WP:NFC#8, purely decorative 05:55, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
- Comment Blanket reasoning without arguments. Please elaborate on why it fails #8, and try to do so without insulting the uploader ("ill chosen"). — Edokter • Talk • 15:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Countrycide.jpg

Image:Countrycide.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Khaosworks (notify | contribs).

Not fair use. This is illustrative but not informative and the precise description of the scene portrayed is not essential to the reader's understanding of the subject. Unjustifiable. fails wp:nfc#8, by a long way. Troikoalogo (talk) 21:48, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I tend to agree with the assessment. It doesn't capture a specific moment of the plot to tell the story all by it's lonesome. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 22:08, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
delete - ill chosen image that fails WP:NFC#8, purely decorative 05:55, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
- Comment Blanket reasoning without arguments. Please elaborate on why it fails #8, and try to do so without insulting the uploader ("ill chosen"). — Edokter • Talk • 15:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was Delete, decorative non-free image that fails the significance requirement of WP:NFCC#8. —An gr 21:32, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Out of Time.jpg

Image:Out of Time.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Khaosworks (notify | contribs).

Not fair use. This is illustrative but not informative and the precise description of the scene portrayed is not essential to the reader's understanding of the subject. Unjustifiable. fails wp:nfc#8, by a long way. Troikoalogo (talk) 21:49, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I tend to agree with the assessment. It doesn't capture a specific moment of the plot to tell the story all by it's lonesome. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 22:08, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
delete - ill chosen image that fails WP:NFC#8, purely decorative 05:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
- Comment Blanket reasoning without arguments. Please elaborate on why it fails #8, and try to do so without insulting the uploader ("ill chosen"). — Edokter • Talk • 15:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The use of period clothing, makeup, hair-styling and period aircraft in this episode about the effects of inadvertent time travel is well illustrated here. Use of a non-free photograph is justified. --Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The 13:16, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Image:Random Shoes.jpg

Image:Random Shoes.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Khaosworks (notify | contribs).

Not fair use. This is illustrative but not informative and the precise description of the scene portrayed is not essential to the reader's understanding of the subject. Unjustifiable. fails wp:nfc#8, by a long way. Troikoalogo (talk) 21:50, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I tend to agree with the assessment. It doesn't capture a specific moment of the plot to tell the story all by it's lonesome. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 22:08, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
delete - ill chosen image that fails WP:NFC#8, purely decorative 05:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
- Comment Blanket reasoning without arguments. Please elaborate on why it fails #8, and try to do so without insulting the uploader ("ill chosen"). — Edokter • Talk • 15:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was Delete, decorative non-free image that fails WP:NFCC#8 for significance. —An gr 21:34, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:They Keep Killing Suzie.jpg

Image:They Keep Killing Suzie.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Khaosworks (notify | contribs).

Not fair use. This is illustrative but not informative and the precise description of the scene portrayed is not essential to the reader's understanding of the subject. Unjustifiable. fails wp:nfc#8, by a long way. Troikoalogo (talk) 21:50, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I disagree with the assessment. It captures a specific (and significant) part of the plot, illustrating the story all by it's lonesome. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 22:09, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
delete - ill chosen image that fails WP:NFC#8, purely decorative 05:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
- Comment Blanket reasoning without arguments. Please elaborate on why it fails #8, and try to do so without insulting the uploader ("ill chosen"). — Edokter • Talk • 15:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Image:Captain Jack Harkness.jpg

Image:Captain Jack Harkness.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by MatthewFenton (notify | contribs).

Not fair use. This is illustrative but not informative and the precise description of the scene portrayed is not essential to the reader's understanding of the subject. Unjustifiable. fails wp:nfc#8, by a long way. Troikoalogo (talk) 21:51, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and replace - I tend to agree (though only slightly) with the assessment. It doesn't capture a specific moment of the plot to tell the story all by it's lonesome. another image would be better - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 22:10, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
delete - ill chosen image that fails WP:NFC#8, purely decorative 05:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
- Comment Blanket reasoning without arguments. Please elaborate on why it fails #8, and try to do so without insulting the uploader ("ill chosen"). — Edokter • Talk • 15:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Combat (Torchwood).jpg

Image:Combat (Torchwood).jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Khaosworks (notify | contribs).

Not fair use. This is illustrative but not informative and the precise description of the scene portrayed is not essential to the reader's understanding of the subject. Unjustifiable. fails wp:nfc#8, by a long way. Troikoalogo (talk) 21:51, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I tend to agree with the assessment. It doesn't capture a specific moment of the plot to tell the story all by it's lonesome. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 22:12, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
delete - ill chosen image that fails WP:NFC#8, purely decorative 05:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
- Comment Blanket reasoning without arguments. Please elaborate on why it fails #8, and try to do so without insulting the uploader ("ill chosen"). — Edokter • Talk • 15:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Exit Wounds.jpg

Image:Exit Wounds.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Wolf of Fenric (notify | contribs).

Not fair use. This is illustrative but not informative and the precise description of the scene portrayed is not essential to the reader's understanding of the subject. Unjustifiable. fails wp:nfc#8, by a long way. Troikoalogo (talk) 21:52, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I tend to agree with the assessment. It doesn't capture a specific moment of the plot to tell the story all by it's lonesome. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 22:12, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
delete - ill chosen image that fails WP:NFC#8, purely decorative 05:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
- Comment Blanket reasoning without arguments. Please elaborate on why it fails #8, and try to do so without insulting the uploader ("ill chosen"). — Edokter • Talk • 15:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Torchwood Something Borrowed.jpg

Image:Torchwood Something Borrowed.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Edokter (notify | contribs).

Not fair use. This is illustrative but not informative and the precise description of the scene portrayed is not essential to the reader's understanding of the subject. Unjustifiable. fails wp:nfc#8, by a long way. Troikoalogo (talk) 21:53, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I tend to agree with the assessment. It doesn't capture a specific moment of the plot to tell the story all by it's lonesome. As well, it has the imprint of the channel it was captured from - a major no-no, to my reckoning - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 22:12, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
delete - ill chosen image that fails WP:NFC#8, purely decorative 05:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
- Comment Blanket reasoning without arguments. Please elaborate on why it fails #8, and try to do so without insulting the uploader ("ill chosen"). — Edokter • Talk • 15:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Whoops, my bad. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 18:51, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Torchwood Dead Man Walking.jpg

Image:Torchwood Dead Man Walking.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Edokter (notify | contribs).

Not fair use. This is illustrative but not informative and the precise description of the scene portrayed is not essential to the reader's understanding of the subject. Unjustifiable. fails wp:nfc#8, by a long way. Troikoalogo (talk) 21:53, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
~~Keep~~ Delete - I ~~dis~~agree with the assessment. ~~It captures a specific (and significant) part of the plot, illustrating the story all by it's lonesome~~. An improvement of the image would be to see the Doc - with injuries - up and walking about - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 22:14, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A better, more illustrative image would serve the article better. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 22:29, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That would eliminate the glove, which is such an essential element. — Edokter • Talk • 22:37, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

delete - ill chosen image that fails WP:NFC#8, purely decorative 05:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
- Comment Blanket reasoning without arguments. Please elaborate on why it fails #8, and try to do so without insulting the uploader ("ill chosen"). — Edokter • Talk • 15:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't want to upset anybody, however I also think a better image could be chosen. This shows him injured and dead - it would be preferable to have an image after he, for want of a better word, resurrected. PhilKnight (talk) 21:43, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Precisely. Perhaps an image where the dead man is actually, y'know, walking? - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 21:46, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep This happens to be a key element in the plot; Jack bringing Owen back to life with the glove. It is what the entire episode is built around. — Edokter • Talk • 22:22, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Still fails the criteria. Being a "key element" in the plot is not sufficient. You need to show that it "significantly increase readers' understanding" - it does not. The myth here seems to be that "illustrating" is allowed. It is not. You only get to use fair use if the there's no other way to "adequately conveyed by text without using the image at all". You can describe the key elements without an image, so you should do so. There seems to be a mistaken belied that there will always be a justifiable "fair use" image for every episode, that's simply untrue.--Troikoalogo (talk) 22:53, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  - No, the truth here is that virtually no non-free image actually meets the NFCC criteria, and that deletionists abuse these criteria to have as meny of them deleted for the wrong reasons. Wikipedia does allow screenshots in the list of permitted non-free images in fact, and a lot of people seem to conveniently ignore that fact. What it basically comes down to is that these images are only nominated for deletion because the nominator usually just doesn't like them. These nominations are always based on the most subjective criteria in NFCC (#1#3 and #8), citing those without actually explaining why they fail those criteria, and when asked to provide an adequate wording or alternative, fail miserably doing so, or simply refuse to do so. Add to that that the nominator usually has no connection or interest in the project involved, and you can see why these nominations are genrally regarded as bad-faith by other members of those projects. Believe me; I talk out of experience. The myth here is that screenshots are not allowed, while policy explicitly says they are. — Edokter • Talk • 23:18, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    - Wow, assume bad faith. I could equally argue that sci-fi obsessives are far too close to their subject and flout the criteria in order to ensure a screenshot on every episode's infobox. So let's look at the criteria. "Could the subject be adequately conveyed by text without using the image at all?" That's key. An article on Daleks needs to show a dalek as it isn't possible to "adequately convey" their appearance with text, and their appearance is critical to the subject of the article. However, in this case "Owen dead on a operating trolly" quite adequately lets the reader know what's in the image, and in any case the image isn't the subject of the article.--Troikoalogo (talk) 23:30, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(ec)Whoa, whoa, lets all take a deep breath and dial it down a little bit, as tempers are flaring a bit.

I understand your concerns, Edokter, but blanket statemetns like those above aren't going to help us accomplish anything but foment more tangential discussions. It could easily be said that the converse of your argument is true - that folks (usually die-hard fans) will add any ol' image to the article, so as to lend it a sense of legitimacy alongside other wiki articles. Often (and by that, I mean frequently) very, very little thought is given to the idea of making the image significantly support the text. I know that it is frustratingly vague, and it is meant to be that way - it isn't intended as a blanket ban on all images,but rather to be interpreted more on a case by case basis (which is why we have these IfD discussions). Conversely, the arguments about NFC#1 are rather stupid to use in image discussions about media-related images. None of them are free; it is instead up to us to be very conservative about the images we do use, and not add them willy-nilly. There are extremists on both sides of this debate, and they tend to cancel each other out. It is up to us of more moderate considerations to find the middle ground and act accordingly. Some of the images int he DH and TW articles are acceptable, while others simply aren't as helpful as other found images could be. No grand conspiracy or cabal. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 23:39, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I meant #3 and #8. — Edokter • Talk • 14:04, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Might we trouble you to explain how they fail #'s 3 and 8, precisely? - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 17:44, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Those aren't my rationales; I simply stated that episode images are nominated a lot under these two criteria. — Edokter • Talk • 18:26, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Torchwood Adam.jpg

Image:Torchwood Adam.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Edokter (notify | contribs).

Not fair use. This is illustrative but not informative and the precise description of the scene portrayed is not essential to the reader's understanding of the subject. Unjustifiable. fails wp:nfc#8, by a long way. Troikoalogo (talk) 21:53, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I tend to agree with the assessment. It doesn't capture a specific moment of the plot to tell the story all by it's lonesome. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 22:15, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
delete - ill chosen image that fails WP:NFC#8, purely decorative 05:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
- Comment Blanket reasoning without arguments. Please elaborate on why it fails #8, and try to do so without insulting the uploader ("ill chosen"). — Edokter • Talk • 15:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-<noinclude><div class="boilerplate metadata vfd" style="background-color: #F3F9FF; margin: 0 auto; padding: 0 1px 0 0; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; font-size:10px">
+<noinclude><div class="boilerplate vfd" style="background-color: #F3F9FF; margin: 0 auto; padding: 0 1px 0 0; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; font-size:10px">
 {| width = "100%"
 |-
@@ Line 9: / Line 9: @@
 :<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:Flag of France (bordered).svg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:Flag of France (bordered).svg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:Flag of France (bordered).svg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:Flag of France (bordered).svg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:Flag of France (bordered).svg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:PatrikR#Image:Flag of France (bordered).svg listed for deletion|PatrikR]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:PatrikR|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/PatrikR|contribs]]).
 *Obsolete and orphaned.  No need for this image when you can simply use the <code>border</code> attribute with [[:Image:Flag of France.svg]]. — [[User:Andrwsc|Andrwsc]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Andrwsc|talk]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Andrwsc|contribs]]) 21:13, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
+*'''commons''' while the borders argument may be valid for use in WP, it may be useful in other wikimedia projects [[User:Fasach Nua|Fasach Nua]] ([[User talk:Fasach Nua|talk]]) 06:01, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+*:Not sure I follow that argument.  Wikimedia image syntax is the same on all projects.  — [[User:Andrwsc|Andrwsc]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Andrwsc|talk]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Andrwsc|contribs]]) 22:05, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+::The image can be used in projects outside of wikimedia, the joy of the GFDL! [[User:Fasach Nua|Fasach Nua]] ([[User talk:Fasach Nua|talk]]) 07:30, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
+*'''Delete''', as Andrwsc points out it's not needed at Commons either. —[[User:Angr|'''An''']][[User talk:Angr|''gr'']] 21:30, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
+*:...and Commons should be a dumping ground for images we don't want just because they are PD. — [[User:Andrwsc|Andrwsc]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Andrwsc|talk]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Andrwsc|contribs]]) 22:25, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 ====[[:Image:Human feces2.jpg]]====
 :<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:Human feces2.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:Human feces2.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:Human feces2.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:Human feces2.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:Human feces2.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Weatherman90#Image:Human feces2.jpg listed for deletion|Weatherman90]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Weatherman90|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Weatherman90|contribs]]).
-*Orphaned, now used for vandalism. Blanchardb-<small><sup>[[User:Blanchardb|<span style="color:#808040">Me</span>]]•[[User Talk:Blanchardb|<span style="color:#408080">MyEars</span>]]•[[Special:Contributions/Blanchardb|<span style="color:804080">MyMouth</span>]]</sup></small>-timed 19:47, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
+*Orphaned, now used for vandalism. Blanchardb-<small><sup>[[User:Blanchardb|<span style="color:#808040">Me</span>]]•[[User Talk:Blanchardb|<span style="color:#408080">MyEars</span>]]•[[Special:Contributions/Blanchardb|<span style="color:#804080">MyMouth</span>]]</sup></small>-timed 19:47, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 ====[[:Image:Philadelphia Landsat.jpg]]====
@@ Line 37: / Line 43: @@
 *Associated Press photo, fails [[WP:NFCC#2]]. [[User:Kelly|<span style="color:#060;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;cursor:help">'''Kelly'''</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Kelly|hi!]]</sup> 02:27, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
+<div class="boilerplate metadata vfd xfd-closed" style="background-color:#f3f9ff; margin:1em 0 0 0; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #aaa;">
+:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).  No further edits should be made to this section. ''
+The result of the debate was Deleted, derivative work of copyrighted material. —[[User:Angr|'''An''']][[User talk:Angr|''gr'']] 21:30, 26 June 2008 (UTC)<!--Template:Ifd top-->
 ====[[:Image:Laughing_man_-_Chicago_Sticker_Graffiti_.jpg]]====
 :<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:Laughing_man_-_Chicago_Sticker_Graffiti_.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:Laughing_man_-_Chicago_Sticker_Graffiti_.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:Laughing_man_-_Chicago_Sticker_Graffiti_.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:Laughing_man_-_Chicago_Sticker_Graffiti_.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:Laughing_man_-_Chicago_Sticker_Graffiti_.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User:Victorgrigas#Image:Laughing_man_-_Chicago_Sticker_Graffiti_.jpg listed for deletion|User:Victorgrigas]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User:Victorgrigas|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/User:Victorgrigas|contribs]]).
-*This is a photograph of a copyrighted image.  This is also the third time that [[User:Laughing_Man|Laughing Man]] has placed this image on his page.  The first attempt was [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyright_problems/2007_August_22/Images]deleted here, the second attempt was also [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Image:Laughing_man_logo.png&action=edit&redlink=1]deleted. He brought it right back again and it was speedied [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Image:Laughing_man_-_Chicago_Sticker_Graffiti_.jpg&action=history] June 9  However at that time the administrator who deleted it previously stated he could not find that it was a copyvio from the link provided, he reverted the request for speedy.  I placed it back up with a link to the site this image actually comes from with an instruction as to where this image appears.  The speedy was again reverted by Admin John on June 10.  The image  is a copy of the "smiling face" image used in the Anime series "Ghost in the shell" in particular, is used by the character named "The laughing man", and even though the exact image is not being used,  he's using is a photograph of a bumper sticker which '''is''' that image, and therefore, it's still a copyrighted image and therefore it cannot exist in userspace at all. The original image (as near as I can find it) exists [http://www.productionig.com/contents/works_sp/38_/index.html] here  I am requesting that this image be deleted and [[User:Laughing_Man|The Laughing Man]] be warned about gaming the system and / or recreating deleted material. [[User:KoshVorlon|  F.U.R  hurts Wikipedia ]] 13:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
+'''* DELETE ''' This is a photograph of a copyrighted image.  This is also the third time that [[User:Laughing_Man|Laughing Man]] has placed this image on his page.  The first attempt was [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyright_problems/2007_August_22/Images]deleted here, the second attempt was also [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Image:Laughing_man_logo.png&action=edit&redlink=1]deleted. He brought it right back again and it was speedied [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Image:Laughing_man_-_Chicago_Sticker_Graffiti_.jpg&action=history] June 9  However at that time the administrator who deleted it previously stated he could not find that it was a copyvio from the link provided, he reverted the request for speedy.  I placed it back up with a link to the site this image actually comes from with an instruction as to where this image appears.  The speedy was again reverted by Admin John on June 10.  The image  is a copy of the "smiling face" image used in the Anime series "Ghost in the shell" in particular, is used by the character named "The laughing man", and even though the exact image is not being used,  he's using is a photograph of a bumper sticker which '''is''' that image, and therefore, it's still a copyrighted image and therefore it cannot exist in userspace at all. The original image (as near as I can find it) exists [http://www.productionig.com/contents/works_sp/38_/index.html] here  I am requesting that this image be deleted and [[User:Laughing_Man|The Laughing Man]] be warned about gaming the system and / or recreating deleted material. [[User:KoshVorlon|  F.U.R  hurts Wikipedia ]] 13:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 *'''Statement by declining admin''' I originally deleted this, but I shouldn't have done in my opinion. The image is graffiti that has original lighting, distance and colour. It is similar to the logo, but not in a way that it can be perceived as a copyvio. In my opinion this is a very sketchy copyright claim. [[User:PeterSymonds|PeterSymonds]] [[User talk:PeterSymonds|<small>(talk)</small>]] 13:47, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 *KoshVorln statements for the most part are very misleading and very inaccurate.  The only that I created was from ''over a year ago'', and completely different from the image listed for deletion by KoshVorln, and totally unrelated to this image.  The image listed here is a photograph taken by [[User:Victorgrigas]] who has contributed many of his photographs for use on Wikipedia, all of which are very generously licensed.  The "second" image was a cropped version of his image that I uploaded, and licensed under the same license the original image, with a reference to the source of an image.  PeterSymonds has stated his opinion on that matter above in retrospect of reviewing the original photograph. I certainly do not appriciate KoshVorln's lack of good faith and furthermore misrepresentation of the facts in this mater, all of which can easily be verified.   // [[User:Laughing Man|laughing man]] 23:01, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
+: Laughing Man,  please read [[WP:NPA|this]].  You have a copyrighted image on your page.  Copyrighted images are not allowed on userpages per policy.  I'm tagging it and asking that it be removed per policy. No bad faith about it.
+'''The only bad faith here''' is your putting it back on your page after it was deleted.  [[User:KoshVorlon|  Just say '''"NO"''' to [WP:FUR|FUR]] 16:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).  No further edits should be made to this section.'' <!--Template:Ifd bottom--></div>
 ====[[:Image:InHerOwnWrite.JPG]]====
@@ Line 59: / Line 73: @@
 :<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:Solitude&Sunshine.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:Solitude&Sunshine.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:Solitude&Sunshine.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:Solitude&Sunshine.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:Solitude&Sunshine.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:ConoscoTutto#Image:Solitude&Sunshine.jpg listed for deletion|ConoscoTutto]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:ConoscoTutto|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/ConoscoTutto|contribs]]).
 *Non-free album cover image is only being used to illustrate a discography, which is explicitly against [[WP:NFC|non-free content policy]] [[User:Papa November|Papa November]] ([[User talk:Papa November|talk]]) 17:59, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
+'''speedy delete''' - copyrighted image of living person [[User:Fasach Nua|Fasach Nua]] ([[User talk:Fasach Nua|talk]]) 05:58, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 ====[[:Image:Torchwood ep 1 Eve Myles.jpg]]====
 :<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:Torchwood ep 1 Eve Myles.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:Torchwood ep 1 Eve Myles.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:Torchwood ep 1 Eve Myles.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:Torchwood ep 1 Eve Myles.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:Torchwood ep 1 Eve Myles.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Bastique#Image:Torchwood ep 1 Eve Myles.jpg listed for deletion|Bastique]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Bastique|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Bastique|contribs]]).
 ** Not fair use. This is illustrative but not informative and the precise description of the scene portrayed is not essential to the reader's understanding of the subject. Unjustifiable. fails wp:nfc#8, by a long way. [[User:Troikoalogo|Troikoalogo]] ([[User talk:Troikoalogo|talk]]) 21:46, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
-**'''Comment''' - I tend to agree with the assessment. It doesn't capture a specific moment of the plot to tell the story all by it's lonesome. - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 22:06, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
+*'''Delete''' - I tend to agree with the assessment. It doesn't capture a specific moment of the plot to tell the story all by it's lonesome. - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 22:06, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 *'''delete''' could be from any episode, does not meet [[WP:NFC]]#8 [[User:Fasach Nua|Fasach Nua]] ([[User talk:Fasach Nua|talk]]) 05:53, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
@@ Line 69: / Line 84: @@
 :<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:Ghostmachine.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:Ghostmachine.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:Ghostmachine.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:Ghostmachine.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:Ghostmachine.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Khaosworks#Image:Ghostmachine.jpg listed for deletion|Khaosworks]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Khaosworks|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Khaosworks|contribs]]).
 *Not fair use. This is illustrative but not informative and the precise description of the scene portrayed is not essential to the reader's understanding of the subject. Unjustifiable. fails wp:nfc#8, by a long way. [[User:Troikoalogo|Troikoalogo]] ([[User talk:Troikoalogo|talk]]) 21:47, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
-**'''Comment''' - I disagree with the assessment. It captures a specific (and significant) part of the plot, illustrating the story all by it's lonesome. - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 22:07, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
+*'''Keep''' - I disagree with the assessment. It captures a specific (and significant) part of the plot, illustrating the story all by it's lonesome. - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 22:07, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
-'''delete''' - ill chosen image that fails [[WP:NFC]]#8, purely decorative 05:55, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+*'''delete''' - ill chosen image that fails [[WP:NFC]]#8, purely decorative 05:55, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+**'''Comment''' Blanket reasoning without arguments. Please elaborate on why it fails #8, and try to do so without insulting the uploader ("ill chosen"). <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Edokter|<span style="color: #008;">'''''E''dokter'''</span>]] • [[User_talk:Edokter|<span style="color: #080;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 15:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 ====[[:Image:Countrycide.jpg]]====
 :<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:Countrycide.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:Countrycide.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:Countrycide.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:Countrycide.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:Countrycide.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Khaosworks#Image:Countrycide.jpg listed for deletion|Khaosworks]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Khaosworks|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Khaosworks|contribs]]).
 *Not fair use. This is illustrative but not informative and the precise description of the scene portrayed is not essential to the reader's understanding of the subject. Unjustifiable. fails wp:nfc#8, by a long way. [[User:Troikoalogo|Troikoalogo]] ([[User talk:Troikoalogo|talk]]) 21:48, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
-**'''Comment''' - I tend to agree with the assessment. It doesn't capture a specific moment of the plot to tell the story all by it's lonesome. - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 22:08, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
+*'''Delete''' - I tend to agree with the assessment. It doesn't capture a specific moment of the plot to tell the story all by it's lonesome. - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 22:08, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
-'''delete''' - ill chosen image that fails [[WP:NFC]]#8, purely decorative 05:55, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+*'''delete''' - ill chosen image that fails [[WP:NFC]]#8, purely decorative 05:55, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+**'''Comment''' Blanket reasoning without arguments. Please elaborate on why it fails #8, and try to do so without insulting the uploader ("ill chosen"). <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Edokter|<span style="color: #008;">'''''E''dokter'''</span>]] • [[User_talk:Edokter|<span style="color: #080;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 15:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+<div class="boilerplate metadata vfd xfd-closed" style="background-color:#f3f9ff; margin:1em 0 0 0; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #aaa;">
+:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).  No further edits should be made to this section. ''
+The result of the debate was Delete, decorative non-free image that fails the significance requirement of [[WP:NFCC#8]]. —[[User:Angr|'''An''']][[User talk:Angr|''gr'']] 21:32, 26 June 2008 (UTC)<!--Template:Ifd top-->
 ====[[:Image:Out of Time.jpg]]====
 :<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:Out of Time.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:Out of Time.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:Out of Time.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:Out of Time.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:Out of Time.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Khaosworks#Image:Out of Time.jpg listed for deletion|Khaosworks]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Khaosworks|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Khaosworks|contribs]]).
 *Not fair use. This is illustrative but not informative and the precise description of the scene portrayed is not essential to the reader's understanding of the subject. Unjustifiable. fails wp:nfc#8, by a long way. [[User:Troikoalogo|Troikoalogo]] ([[User talk:Troikoalogo|talk]]) 21:49, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
-**'''Comment''' - I tend to agree with the assessment. It doesn't capture a specific moment of the plot to tell the story all by it's lonesome. - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 22:08, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
+*'''Delete''' - I tend to agree with the assessment. It doesn't capture a specific moment of the plot to tell the story all by it's lonesome. - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 22:08, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
-'''delete''' - ill chosen image that fails [[WP:NFC]]#8, purely decorative 05:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+*'''delete''' - ill chosen image that fails [[WP:NFC]]#8, purely decorative 05:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+**'''Comment''' Blanket reasoning without arguments. Please elaborate on why it fails #8, and try to do so without insulting the uploader ("ill chosen"). <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Edokter|<span style="color: #008;">'''''E''dokter'''</span>]] • [[User_talk:Edokter|<span style="color: #080;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 15:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+*'''Keep'''.  The use of period clothing, makeup, hair-styling and period aircraft in this episode about the effects of inadvertent time travel is well illustrated here.  Use of a non-free photograph is justified.  --[[User talk:Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The|Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The]] 13:16, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
+:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).  No further edits should be made to this section.'' <!--Template:Ifd bottom--></div>
 ====[[:Image:Random Shoes.jpg]]====
 :<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:Random Shoes.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:Random Shoes.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:Random Shoes.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:Random Shoes.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:Random Shoes.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Khaosworks#Image:Random Shoes.jpg listed for deletion|Khaosworks]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Khaosworks|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Khaosworks|contribs]]).
 *Not fair use. This is illustrative but not informative and the precise description of the scene portrayed is not essential to the reader's understanding of the subject. Unjustifiable. fails wp:nfc#8, by a long way. [[User:Troikoalogo|Troikoalogo]] ([[User talk:Troikoalogo|talk]]) 21:50, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
-**'''Comment''' - I tend to agree with the assessment. It doesn't capture a specific moment of the plot to tell the story all by it's lonesome. - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 22:08, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
+*'''Delete''' - I tend to agree with the assessment. It doesn't capture a specific moment of the plot to tell the story all by it's lonesome. - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 22:08, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
-'''delete''' - ill chosen image that fails [[WP:NFC]]#8, purely decorative 05:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+*'''delete''' - ill chosen image that fails [[WP:NFC]]#8, purely decorative 05:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+**'''Comment''' Blanket reasoning without arguments. Please elaborate on why it fails #8, and try to do so without insulting the uploader ("ill chosen"). <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Edokter|<span style="color: #008;">'''''E''dokter'''</span>]] • [[User_talk:Edokter|<span style="color: #080;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 15:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+<div class="boilerplate metadata vfd xfd-closed" style="background-color:#f3f9ff; margin:1em 0 0 0; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #aaa;">
+:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).  No further edits should be made to this section. ''
+The result of the debate was Delete, decorative non-free image that fails [[WP:NFCC#8]] for significance. —[[User:Angr|'''An''']][[User talk:Angr|''gr'']] 21:34, 26 June 2008 (UTC)<!--Template:Ifd top-->
 ====[[:Image:They Keep Killing Suzie.jpg]]====
 :<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:They Keep Killing Suzie.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:They Keep Killing Suzie.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:They Keep Killing Suzie.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:They Keep Killing Suzie.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:They Keep Killing Suzie.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Khaosworks#Image:They Keep Killing Suzie.jpg listed for deletion|Khaosworks]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Khaosworks|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Khaosworks|contribs]]).
 *Not fair use. This is illustrative but not informative and the precise description of the scene portrayed is not essential to the reader's understanding of the subject. Unjustifiable. fails wp:nfc#8, by a long way. [[User:Troikoalogo|Troikoalogo]] ([[User talk:Troikoalogo|talk]]) 21:50, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
-**'''Comment''' - I disagree with the assessment. It captures a specific (and significant) part of the plot, illustrating the story all by it's lonesome. - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 22:09, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
+*'''Keep''' - I disagree with the assessment. It captures a specific (and significant) part of the plot, illustrating the story all by it's lonesome. - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 22:09, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
+*'''delete''' - ill chosen image that fails [[WP:NFC]]#8, purely decorative 05:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+**'''Comment''' Blanket reasoning without arguments. Please elaborate on why it fails #8, and try to do so without insulting the uploader ("ill chosen"). <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Edokter|<span style="color: #008;">'''''E''dokter'''</span>]] • [[User_talk:Edokter|<span style="color: #080;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 15:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).  No further edits should be made to this section.'' <!--Template:Ifd bottom--></div>
 ====[[:Image:Captain Jack Harkness.jpg]]====
 :<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:Captain Jack Harkness.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:Captain Jack Harkness.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:Captain Jack Harkness.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:Captain Jack Harkness.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:Captain Jack Harkness.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:MatthewFenton#Image:Captain Jack Harkness.jpg listed for deletion|MatthewFenton]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:MatthewFenton|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/MatthewFenton|contribs]]).
 *Not fair use. This is illustrative but not informative and the precise description of the scene portrayed is not essential to the reader's understanding of the subject. Unjustifiable. fails wp:nfc#8, by a long way. [[User:Troikoalogo|Troikoalogo]] ([[User talk:Troikoalogo|talk]]) 21:51, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
-**'''Comment''' - I tend to agree (though only slightly) with the assessment. It doesn't capture a specific moment of the plot to tell the story all by it's lonesome. another image would be better - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 22:10, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
+*'''Delete and replace''' - I tend to agree (though only slightly) with the assessment. It doesn't capture a specific moment of the plot to tell the story all by it's lonesome. another image would be better - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 22:10, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
+*'''delete''' - ill chosen image that fails [[WP:NFC]]#8, purely decorative 05:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+**'''Comment''' Blanket reasoning without arguments. Please elaborate on why it fails #8, and try to do so without insulting the uploader ("ill chosen"). <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Edokter|<span style="color: #008;">'''''E''dokter'''</span>]] • [[User_talk:Edokter|<span style="color: #080;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 15:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 ====[[:Image:Combat (Torchwood).jpg]]====
 :<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:Combat (Torchwood).jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:Combat (Torchwood).jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:Combat (Torchwood).jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:Combat (Torchwood).jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:Combat (Torchwood).jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Khaosworks#Image:Combat (Torchwood).jpg listed for deletion|Khaosworks]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Khaosworks|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Khaosworks|contribs]]).
 *Not fair use. This is illustrative but not informative and the precise description of the scene portrayed is not essential to the reader's understanding of the subject. Unjustifiable. fails wp:nfc#8, by a long way. [[User:Troikoalogo|Troikoalogo]] ([[User talk:Troikoalogo|talk]]) 21:51, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
-**'''Comment''' - I tend to agree with the assessment. It doesn't capture a specific moment of the plot to tell the story all by it's lonesome. - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 22:12, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
+*'''Delete''' - I tend to agree with the assessment. It doesn't capture a specific moment of the plot to tell the story all by it's lonesome. - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 22:12, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
+*'''delete''' - ill chosen image that fails [[WP:NFC]]#8, purely decorative 05:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+**'''Comment''' Blanket reasoning without arguments. Please elaborate on why it fails #8, and try to do so without insulting the uploader ("ill chosen"). <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Edokter|<span style="color: #008;">'''''E''dokter'''</span>]] • [[User_talk:Edokter|<span style="color: #080;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 15:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 ====[[:Image:Exit Wounds.jpg]]====
 :<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:Exit Wounds.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:Exit Wounds.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:Exit Wounds.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:Exit Wounds.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:Exit Wounds.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Wolf of Fenric#Image:Exit Wounds.jpg listed for deletion|Wolf of Fenric]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Wolf of Fenric|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Wolf of Fenric|contribs]]).
 *Not fair use. This is illustrative but not informative and the precise description of the scene portrayed is not essential to the reader's understanding of the subject. Unjustifiable. fails wp:nfc#8, by a long way. [[User:Troikoalogo|Troikoalogo]] ([[User talk:Troikoalogo|talk]]) 21:52, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
-**'''Comment''' - I tend to agree with the assessment. It doesn't capture a specific moment of the plot to tell the story all by it's lonesome. - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 22:12, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
+*'''Delete''' - I tend to agree with the assessment. It doesn't capture a specific moment of the plot to tell the story all by it's lonesome. - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 22:12, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
+*'''delete''' - ill chosen image that fails [[WP:NFC]]#8, purely decorative 05:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+**'''Comment''' Blanket reasoning without arguments. Please elaborate on why it fails #8, and try to do so without insulting the uploader ("ill chosen"). <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Edokter|<span style="color: #008;">'''''E''dokter'''</span>]] • [[User_talk:Edokter|<span style="color: #080;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 15:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 ====[[:Image:Torchwood Something Borrowed.jpg]]====
 :<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:Torchwood Something Borrowed.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:Torchwood Something Borrowed.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:Torchwood Something Borrowed.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:Torchwood Something Borrowed.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:Torchwood Something Borrowed.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Edokter#Image:Torchwood Something Borrowed.jpg listed for deletion|Edokter]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Edokter|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Edokter|contribs]]).
 *Not fair use. This is illustrative but not informative and the precise description of the scene portrayed is not essential to the reader's understanding of the subject. Unjustifiable. fails wp:nfc#8, by a long way. [[User:Troikoalogo|Troikoalogo]] ([[User talk:Troikoalogo|talk]]) 21:53, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
-**'''Comment''' - I tend to agree with the assessment. It doesn't capture a specific moment of the plot to tell the story all by it's lonesome. As well, it has the imprint of the channel it was captured from - a major no-no, to my reckoning - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 22:12, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
+*'''Delete''' - I tend to agree with the assessment. It doesn't capture a specific moment of the plot to tell the story all by it's lonesome. As well, it has the imprint of the channel it was captured from - a major no-no, to my reckoning - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 22:12, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
+*'''delete''' - ill chosen image that fails [[WP:NFC]]#8, purely decorative 05:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+**'''Comment''' Blanket reasoning without arguments. Please elaborate on why it fails #8, and try to do so without insulting the uploader ("ill chosen"). <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Edokter|<span style="color: #008;">'''''E''dokter'''</span>]] • [[User_talk:Edokter|<span style="color: #080;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 15:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+::Whoops, my bad. - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 18:51, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 ====[[:Image:Torchwood Dead Man Walking.jpg]]====
 :<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:Torchwood Dead Man Walking.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:Torchwood Dead Man Walking.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:Torchwood Dead Man Walking.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:Torchwood Dead Man Walking.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:Torchwood Dead Man Walking.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Edokter#Image:Torchwood Dead Man Walking.jpg listed for deletion|Edokter]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Edokter|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Edokter|contribs]]).
 *Not fair use. This is illustrative but not informative and the precise description of the scene portrayed is not essential to the reader's understanding of the subject. Unjustifiable. fails wp:nfc#8, by a long way. [[User:Troikoalogo|Troikoalogo]] ([[User talk:Troikoalogo|talk]]) 21:53, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
-**'''Comment''' - I disagree with the assessment. It captures a specific (and significant) part of the plot, illustrating the story all by it's lonesome. An improvement of the image would be to see the Doc - with injuries - up and walking about - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 22:14, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
+*'''<s>Keep</s> Delete''' - I <s>dis</s>agree with the assessment. <s>It captures a specific (and significant) part of the plot, illustrating the story all by it's lonesome</s>. An improvement of the image would be to see the Doc - with injuries - up and walking about - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 22:14, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
+::A better, more illustrative image would serve the article better. - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 22:29, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+:::That would eliminate the glove, which is such an essential element. <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Edokter|<span style="color: #008;">'''''E''dokter'''</span>]] • [[User_talk:Edokter|<span style="color: #080;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 22:37, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+*'''delete''' - ill chosen image that fails [[WP:NFC]]#8, purely decorative 05:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+**'''Comment''' Blanket reasoning without arguments. Please elaborate on why it fails #8, and try to do so without insulting the uploader ("ill chosen"). <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Edokter|<span style="color: #008;">'''''E''dokter'''</span>]] • [[User_talk:Edokter|<span style="color: #080;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 15:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+*I don't want to upset anybody, however I also think a better image could be chosen. This shows him injured and dead - it would be preferable to have an image after he, for want of a better word, resurrected. [[User:PhilKnight|PhilKnight]] ([[User talk:PhilKnight|talk]]) 21:43, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+::*Precisely. Perhaps an image where the dead man is actually, y'know, ''walking''? - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 21:46, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+*'''Keep''' This happens to be a key element in the plot; Jack bringing Owen back to life with the glove. It is what the entire episode is built around. <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Edokter|<span style="color: #008;">'''''E''dokter'''</span>]] • [[User_talk:Edokter|<span style="color: #080;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 22:22, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+**Still fails the criteria. Being a "key element" in the plot is not sufficient. You need to show that it "significantly increase readers' understanding"  - it does not. The myth here seems to be that "illustrating" is allowed. It is not. You only get to use fair use if the there's no other way to "adequately conveyed by text without using the image at all". You can describe the key elements without an image, so you should do so. There seems to be a mistaken belied that there will always be a justifiable "fair use" image for every episode, that's simply untrue.--[[User:Troikoalogo|Troikoalogo]] ([[User talk:Troikoalogo|talk]]) 22:53, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+***No, the truth here is that virtually no non-free image actually '''meets''' the NFCC criteria, and that deletionists abuse these criteria to have as meny of them deleted for the wrong reasons. Wikipedia '''does''' allow screenshots in the list of permitted non-free images in fact, and a lot of people seem to conveniently ignore that fact. What it basically comes down to is that these images are only nominated for deletion because the nominator usually just doesn't like them. These nominations are always based on the most subjective criteria in [[WP:NFCC|NFCC]] (<s>#1</s>#3 and #8), citing those without actually explaining '' why'' they fail those criteria, and when asked to provide an adequate wording or alternative, fail miserably doing so, or simply refuse to do so. Add to that that the nominator usually has no connection or interest in the project involved, and you can see why these nominations are genrally regarded as bad-faith by other members of those projects. Believe me; I talk out of experience. The myth here is that screenshots are not allowed, while [[WP:NFC#Images|policy explicitly says they are]]. <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Edokter|<span style="color: #008;">'''''E''dokter'''</span>]] • [[User_talk:Edokter|<span style="color: #080;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 23:18, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+****Wow, assume bad faith. I could equally argue that sci-fi obsessives are far too close to their subject and flout the criteria in order to ensure a screenshot on every episode's infobox. So let's look at the criteria. "Could the subject be adequately conveyed by text without using the image at all?" That's key. An article on [[Dalek]]s needs to show a dalek as it isn't possible to "adequately convey" their appearance with text, and their appearance is critical to the subject of the article. However, in this case "Owen dead on a operating trolly" quite adequately lets the reader know what's in the image, and in any case the image isn't the subject of the article.--[[User:Troikoalogo|Troikoalogo]] ([[User talk:Troikoalogo|talk]]) 23:30, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+<br>
+:::*('''ec''')Whoa, whoa, lets all take a deep breath and dial it down a little bit, as tempers are flaring a bit.
+::::I understand your concerns, Edokter, but blanket statemetns like those above aren't going to help us accomplish anything but foment more tangential discussions. It could easily be said that the converse of your argument is true - that folks (usually die-hard fans) will add any ol' image to the article, so as to lend it a sense of legitimacy alongside other wiki articles. Often (and by that, I mean ''frequently'') very, very little thought is given to the idea of making the image ''significantly'' support the text. I know that it is frustratingly vague, and it is meant to be that way - it isn't intended as a blanket ban on all images,but rather to be interpreted more on a case by case basis (which is why we have these IfD discussions). Conversely, the arguments about NFC#1 are rather stupid to use in image discussions about media-related images. ''None'' of them are free; it is instead up to us to be very conservative about the images we do use, and not add them willy-nilly. There are extremists on both sides of this debate, and they tend to cancel each other out. It is up to us of more moderate considerations to find the middle ground and act accordingly. Some of the images int he DH and TW articles are acceptable, while others simply aren't as helpful as other found images could be. No grand conspiracy or cabal. - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 23:39, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+:::::I meant #3 and #8. <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Edokter|<span style="color: #008;">'''''E''dokter'''</span>]] • [[User_talk:Edokter|<span style="color: #080;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 14:04, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
+::::::Might we trouble you to explain ''how'' they fail #'s 3 and 8, precisely? - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 17:44, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
+:::::::Those aren't ''my'' rationales; I simply stated that episode images are nominated a lot under these two criteria. <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Edokter|<span style="color: #008;">'''''E''dokter'''</span>]] • [[User_talk:Edokter|<span style="color: #080;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 18:26, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 ====[[:Image:Torchwood Adam.jpg]]====
 :<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:Torchwood Adam.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:Torchwood Adam.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:Torchwood Adam.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:Torchwood Adam.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:Torchwood Adam.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Edokter#Image:Torchwood Adam.jpg listed for deletion|Edokter]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Edokter|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Edokter|contribs]]).
 *Not fair use. This is illustrative but not informative and the precise description of the scene portrayed is not essential to the reader's understanding of the subject. Unjustifiable. fails wp:nfc#8, by a long way. [[User:Troikoalogo|Troikoalogo]] ([[User talk:Troikoalogo|talk]]) 21:53, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
-**'''Comment''' - I tend to agree with the assessment. It doesn't capture a specific moment of the plot to tell the story all by it's lonesome. - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 22:15, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
+*'''Delete''' - I tend to agree with the assessment. It doesn't capture a specific moment of the plot to tell the story all by it's lonesome. - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 22:15, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
+*'''delete''' - ill chosen image that fails [[WP:NFC]]#8, purely decorative 05:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+**'''Comment''' Blanket reasoning without arguments. Please elaborate on why it fails #8, and try to do so without insulting the uploader ("ill chosen"). <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Edokter|<span style="color: #008;">'''''E''dokter'''</span>]] • [[User_talk:Edokter|<span style="color: #080;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 15:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)