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September 8

Crinoline Dresses

In the days when ladies wore Crinoline, how did they relieve themselves? I mean did they have large (wide) toilets or did they have to take off the skirts before entering the WC? How did this work? Puzzled.

Versailles had no toilets, so those suave French aristocrats went in the stairways and other out-of-the-way places. No wonder there was a revolution. Clarityfiend (talk) 01:45, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

As I understand it, if you look up the history of underwear, the bloomers underneath were crotchless (this is the mid-19th century, well past the Versailles era), so you didn't have to take off the skirt (that was difficult, even when you were used to it). The toilet itself was mostly a bowl, so you could crouch over it. The room itself would be larger than a modern bathroom, as I'm led to believe, if there indeed was a room dedicated to it. In many places it would be behind a screen or just in an out of the way place in the room. Steewi (talk) 02:05, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

The answer to Crinoline is Chamber pot. And a servant willing to hold it in place during the deed. --Jayron32 02:58, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Actually the "pots" were oval, more like sauce-boats in shape, and used by holding them in place under the skirt, without sitting down. I saw some in an antiques TV show but I can't remember their name. - KoolerStill (talk) 14:31, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Versailles is an amazing place - the combination of such opulence and astounding luxury - combined with being a place where no modern person could stand to live - crude in so many ways. If you have the opportunity to take the tour - you definitely should, it's astounding. SteveBaker (talk) 02:58, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

A charming crinoline in motion. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:00, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

The crinolines fold up,you hoick it up round your waist and your whole lower half is free....hotclaws 17:02, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Music royalties

I was reading about music royalties and couldn't understand exactly how they apply (or rather, are applied) -- I mean, if a hired band with hired singers plays music and sing they lyrics of songs they did not write/arrange, are the original composers/lyricists actually entitled to compensation, and it's just that this rule is consistently and continually broken? DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 01:54, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Pretty much, yes. Every time a bunch of kids sing "Happy Birthday To You" - they are (perhaps) infringing the copyright of Warner/Chappell Music - and could, possibly, be sued for doing so. As you say, it's hard to enforce - and rarely is - but that doesn't make it legal. Worse still - there are MANY copyrights that could be being infringed - the lyrics and the music may have separate copyrights, the printed music - another, any recordings of performances, another - and the publication of those recordings, yet another! It's a minefield. SteveBaker (talk) 02:49, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Re Happy Birthday To You: in which jurisdiction, and are you sure? Where I live the copyright law has the concept of private performance, for which no fees are needed. A private party is different from a performance down at the pub where anyone can come. 62.78.198.48 (talk) 08:27, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

For professionals, it is relatively easy to get the rights to perform something, because there are organizations devoted to managing these sorts of rights (e.g. BMI and ASCAP). Even high school band directors go through them before performing something copyrighted. It's not that hard to enforce—you only bother to sue those people who do it for money or are important enough to warrant (and the fines are substantial). Again, it is very, very standard to secure the rights to perform something before you perform it, if you are covering copyrighted work and are a professional. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 02:52, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Through work I had to deal with this kind of thing in Germany - their association dealing with this is named GEMA, which stands for Gesellschaft für musikalische Aufführungs- und mechanische Vervielfältigungsrechte (something like Society for musical performance rights and mechanical reproduction rights). We were organising a congress-type event for 800+ people - they required us to fill in a two- or three-page form and send it in, they'd check whether we had calculated the royalties due correctly - and that was it. These sums were in the thousands of Euros, but it wasn't really very difficult (they gave very detailed and precise instructions on how to calculate the due amounts - after all, 's Germany). --Ouro (blah blah) 05:02, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

A private, non-professional rendering of "Happy Birthday" wouldn't be subject to a lawsuit. In public theoretically could be a different story. Maybe someone can explain how royalties are handled for songs that are in a jukebox. I bring that up because Eddy Howard's rendition of "Happy Birthday" used to be carried in jukeboxes, and obviously could be played whenever someone in the given tavern or restaurant was celebrating a birthday. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 11:44, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

The following does not constitute legal advice, but in the U.S., publishers sell arrangements to concert bands with the right to perform them publicly when the performance is free (no admission). If tickets are sold, extra payment is technically required. There are additional rules for making a recording of it or using it in a movie soundtrack. Edison (talk) 16:25, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

What about karaoke? Do the people who drag karaoke machines with them from bar to bar pay royalties? Do they have to keep track of which songs are actually performed, or do they just pay blanket fees to ASCAP:? Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 19:03, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

OP here -- my initial question was referring to wedding bands that play music for fees in the USA. I was very surprised to read this, as I had never thought about it. The wide array of Jewish music is played at every Jewish wedding I attend and it's rare to have an actual music artist be the singer at the wedding (and therefor be exempt for singing his own songs, perhaps with permission from the composer that wrote the music). Wow...a real eye-opener! DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 19:41, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Smoking Nicotine

Tried all the possible ways to quit smoking but not beyond a week as i realise the level of nicotine rising in my checst causing congestion, is there any home or other remedy to decreasing the level of nicotine from the body,i know for sure to quit is the best but how to reduce the level?anyone —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.122.36.6 (talk) 06:44, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Reduce how much you smoke over a period of time? Going from a daily dose of 20 - 0 is a big drop, but if you try lowering your intake from say 20 - 15 for a week, then 15 - 10 and so on you may find that easier. 08:21, 8 September 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.221.133.226 (talk)

You question isn't entirely clear? Are you asking if it's possible to reduce your nicotine levels while still smoking the same amount? APL (talk) 12:55, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

This question appears to be a request for medical advice. It is against our guidelines to provide medical advice. You might like to clarify your question. You may also find it helpful to read the article: Nicotine, and form your own opinion from the information there. For actual diagnosis and advice specific to your condition, you need to see a physician. Responses containing prescriptive information or medical advice should be removed and an explanatory note posted on the discussion page. If you feel a response has been removed in error, please discuss it before restoring it.

. Nimur (talk) 15:22, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Although you can only get diagnosis and treatment from a doctor, there are reputable websites which can give information and general advice, such as healthy-india.org and smokefree.nhs.uk AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 08:38, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

ISBN #'s on books

I am buying books for my son who is in college. The math book he needs is ISBN 9780073311821. I bought one on ebay and on the receipt it says the ISBN of that book is ISBN 9780072451078. The book looks identical but was published in different years. 2004 & 2007. Can my son use the book I bought or do I have to buy another one? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.156.105.208 (talk) 09:12, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

When you say that the books look identical, are you just referring to the covers or the actual content? The ISBN is no help, you have to look at the edition information at the beginning of the book. I'm unclear as to whether you've bought the 2004 or the 2007 one off of eBay, though. It's also not clear to me whether the one your son needs is the 2004 or the 2007. If you've got the 2007 one then you should be fine since that is obviously the most recent edition. If you've got the 2004 one then there might have been some changes between that one and the 2007 one that your son might need for his course. Not that maths is a particularly fast-moving discipline, especially at college level. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 09:29, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I've taken the liberty of linking the second ISBN code you cited. Both books are 840 pages in length, and I tend to think the substantive content will be the same. However the more recent book comes with something called "MathZone" which I understand to be an online resource providing tests & exercises which the user can choose to take part in. (Compare [1] and [2]). Unless he specifically needs access to MathZone, then the book will be fine. Check with him? --Tagishsimon (talk) 10:00, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I have a kid in college. I know where you're coming from. The problem is that the people who teach the courses are very often the same people who write the text books. Both they, and the publishers, are very interested in getting kids to buy new books rather than going to the college used-book store and buying copies from the previous year's students. Hence the books get updated FAR more often than could possibly be justified. However, one of the things they often change with new revisions is the example problems, tests and exercises. This means that if the tutor says "I want everyone to do the examples at the end of chapter 4 for homework" - then an outdated book will result in your kid doing the wrong problems and getting a zero on the work. This annoys me more than I have words to express that annoyance! The answer is for he/she to find someone with the "correct" version of the book and to make sure that the example problems are the same whenever homework is given based on the book. SteveBaker (talk) 11:34, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

As Steve says, the "old" book probably has different page numbers, homework assignments, etc. It's a definite racket. But there's no easy way out of it, other than elaborate "find the differences and make a copy of them" games. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 13:56, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

It sort of depends on the teacher and the book in question. Many college teachers do not grade or collect homework. In that case the old book will be fine. Even if the homework problems have different answers, they will still cover the same information, so it should still be good practice. If the teacher uses an online homework program like WebAssign (unsolicited plug... From a teachers POV, that is the most awesome utility ever!), then it also won't be a problem, since in that case you'll be using the text mostly as a reference, and that should be fine. Thirdly, check the book against a newer edition. Some books are actually just different printings of the same edition, so you may not see any changes, besides, say, correcting spelling mistakes from the earlier edition and stuff like that. Lastly, if your child is unlucky enough that the actual edition matters for getting the homework turned in and graded, he may be able to get the correct problems from a friend. See that he gets into a good study group, and he should be able to copy the problems (not the answers; that would be counter productive!) from someone else. As an aside, I agree totally with SteveBaker. The textbook industry is a HUGE racket; especially at the college level. The kinds of changes they make to a book from edition to edition are largely cosmetic, and serve no purpose except to force students to purchase new, expensive books all the time. I work now as a private chemistry tutor, and the general chemistry texts I use (Brown, LeMay, and Bursten or Zumdahl and Zumdahl) are both about 4-5 editions older than the current round, and the changes are insignificant; other than the answers to the homework problems (same problems, different numbers! Nice trick, huh!) and the page numbers and things like that, they are largely identical. --Jayron32 14:37, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

At this point, we should put in a plug for WikiBooks, Wikiversity and the Californian initiative to get free digital textbooks. With the cost of an entire low-end laptop scraping the cost of a SINGLE textbook and things like the Kindle eliminating all of the old excuses about the difficulty of reading stuff off the screen, making margin notes, etc...the paper textbook makers had better wake up and fix their evil ways - or they'll find themselves as obsolete as paper encyclopedias, paper dictionaries and (increasingly) newspapers. SteveBaker (talk) 15:15, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

It is possible that a math book author would write new problems for a new edition, but I have seen counterexamples, that the same problem persist, and they only add fluff to make the old edition obsolete, to avoid resale of old copies. It takes time and effort to write and check the homework problems. I once checked an engineering textbook from the 7th edition back to the first edition, and found the problems almost unchanged. I then compared the problems to those in the books cited as references, and found that in the first edition many were cribbed with minor changes from someone else's older textbooks. The older book's writers might find it hard to sue for copyright infringement for individual problems, because they probably cribbed them from yet older books. Edison (talk) 16:18, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, if it's a maths textbook, it's very difficult to demonstrate copyright infringement with problem questions unless they are exact, word-for-word copies. See University of London Press Ltd v University Tutorial Press Ltd [1916].

I'm making an unqualified presumption that English IP law is applicable in your jurisdiction. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 01:45, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Waking up

As of now it takes me 30 mins (exaggeration) to wake up in the morning. What are some tips to help me to wake up faster? Tips 1. Alarm clock Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 13:10, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

• 2. Turn a light on as soon as you wake-up (I find it much easier to wake up in a well-lit room than a dark room
• 3. Have a drink of water
• 4. Clear the 'sleep' from your eyes
• 5. Find a partner that's good at making you wake up (my partner is particularly)
• 6. Have a reason to get up (my working 'flexible' hours makes it hard to get up but if i have a meeting I have to get in for I always get up in time)

13:15, 8 September 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.221.133.226 (talk)

Any more?Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 13:31, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Have an alarm clock programmed to yell "FIRE!" If that doesn't get you out of bed in a hurry, nothing will. Here's another tip I just learned recently. It seems that sleep cycles have some impact on our ability to wake up easily, especially when "forced" to wake up. Try setting your alarm clock such that your sleep time turns out to be something-and-a-half, rather than a full hour. P.S. That's not medical advice, that's just personal experience. Your results may vary. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 13:40, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I use the alarm on my mobile phone and leave the phone just outside the room door so it's close enough to drive me crazy and far enough that I'm forced out of bed to put it off. N.B. I live alone and the phone seldom rings at night. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 13:48, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Any more?Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 13:58, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I've found that cutting my caffeine to basically nothing has helped quite a lot with waking up. Anecdotal, I know. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 13:58, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

No one has mentioned the obvious: Go to bed earlier...--Jayron32 14:28, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

^{I didn't as from my experience going to bed earlier makes no difference - that said it's worth a try!} 194.221.133.226 (talk) 15:23, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Get someone to throw a bucket of cold water over you. That should do the trick! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.75.14.110 (talk) 14:45, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Go to bed with the curtains drawn back, so that the room is light when you wake up. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 15:16, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

That depends on the time he has to get up though, in some places it is dark a long time in the winter. --Saddhiyama (talk) 15:40, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Stop exaggerating and you'll get up sooner. Seriously though, sounds like willpower might do the trick. Juliankaufman (talk) 15:52, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Have a look at Circadian rhythm, Circadian rhythm sleep disorder, and Light therapy. For example, you might try putting a bedside light on a timer, so it switches on half an hour or so before your alarm. It will alert your brain and body that it is "dawn" and time to begin rousing you from the depths of slumber. BrainyBabe (talk) 15:58, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I do that very thing, and it does make a difference, although the "click" of the timer coming on can do it by itself, if I'm at the top end of a sleep cycle. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 16:05, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Is the problem that the alarm is not loud enough to wake you up, or you ignore it, or turn it off an go back to sleep? If the job or taking an exam matters to a person, I expect that he will find it easy to get up as soon as the alarm wakes him. I've seen people who turn off the alarm, or yell at the person telling them to get up to go away. Someone not getting up when the alarm is going off seems like it might be a passive aggressive refusal to satisfy the demands of the job, the school, the chores or whatever else needs doing. I have personally found that avoiding PM caffeine and going to bed earlier make it easier to get up. In my case, there are certainly points in the sleep cycle where the sleep is more shallow than others, and times when it takes quite a racket to wake me. Edison (talk) 16:12, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

When I last had a hard deadline for waking up, I set up the alarm clock to wake me up earlier. I got to enjoy my slow process of getting up, and still made it in time. (Well, at least sometimes I did. (Ok, I was so famous for missing the morning meeting they got me an alarm clock for a present when I left the company.)) 62.78.198.48 (talk) 16:49, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Did you leave voluntarily? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 17:00, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

OR: Check your diet. If you're getting through the day on a high sugar diet, you'll wake up with v.low blood sugar levels, which manifests in a somewhat disorientated start to the day. --Tagishsimon (talk) 18:53, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Bogus medical advice alert: depending on the person's ability to metabolize carbohydrates, a "high sugar diet" might leave the blood sugar quite high in the morning. See Diabetes. Edison (talk) 03:10, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Also consumption of large quantities of alchohol the night before is not going to help get you going in the morning. See Hangover. Googlemeister (talk) 19:41, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

In my (vast, well back in the day) experience of consuming large quantities of alcohol I could go to bed at 4pm after Clubbing (not the seal kind) and then I could guarantee 100% that I would be awake at 7am the next morning, bright-eyed, unable to sleep, essentially fully awake (and doubtlessly still drunk). I'd be fine, then by mid-afternoon then i'd be tired, lethargic and basically worthless to the world for the rest of the day (unless of course it was a 2-day session in which case I had to 'man up' and do it all again - such is a young man's life). ny156uk (talk) 20:30, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

4pm to 7am . . . 15 hours usually does it for me, too. DOR (HK) (talk) 08:03, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

8 hours of coffee, 8 hours of alcohol, sleep a bit, repeat. (Given as humor, not as medical advice). Edison (talk) 03:13, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Get in the shower as soon as you wake up. 90.208.66.97 (talk) 07:24, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

The OP asks for tips and WP:OR has flown out the window. I suggest:

• Re #5, having a partner who is good at getting one up can encourage a fellow to stay in bed for another 30 minutes.
• I use a clock radio to wake me in time to hear the BBC World Service news. After that I feel confident to face the world. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 09:58, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't LIKE waking up suddenly - the fix for this is easy - have two alarm clocks - set the first clock to 30 minutes before you've got to get up. When the first alarm sounds, you can kinda gently wake - roll over, snuggle a bit, get some more Zzzz's - and by the time the second one goes off, you'll be ready to hit the streets. Just make sure the two alarms sound REALLY different! The other thing I found that works (for me) is that voices wake me up better than annoying noises or music. I could easily imagine solid evolutionary brain-science reasons for this - so perhaps that's something that's true for everyone. Hence, get a clock-radio and tune it to a talk-radio station. For a long time, I had a really effective talking alarm clock that spoke the time to you with increasing degrees of urgency: "The time is blah-blah"..."The time is now blah-plah+5 WAKE UP!"..."The time is now blah-blah+10 YOU ARE LATE!" and so on. Sadly, my wife threw that one across the room and it doesn't work anymore. :-( If you are one of those people who manages to turn the alarm off while still asleep - you probably need a Clocky! SteveBaker (talk) 14:58, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

There are alarm clocks which throw themselves off of their place by your bed and tumble onto the floor so you have to go looking for them. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 19:04, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

What the OP has described is a sympton of caffeine addiction. Give up tea and coffee and after a bad few days or weeks you will wake up instantly feeling alert and refreshed. 89.240.57.97 (talk) 00:02, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Careful, that could be construed as medical advice. Googlemeister (talk) 13:43, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Map with coordinates

There are loads of maps available on the Internet, but I still haven't found one that shows the coordinates. There is Shadedrelief, which gives the coordinates for the location of the mousepointer (plus some other nice features), but what I want is lines over the map for the altitude and longitude. I assume that maps are put together using those coordinates, so I'm surprised that they are never shown. Or is there a map-site that does give them? DirkvdM (talk) 13:11, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

NOAA radar maps have that.Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 13:15, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

You mean this? That's only the US, and I see no coordinate lines. DirkvdM (talk) 13:40, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

No, but if you go into a specific areas map, ie go to type in 76109 into zipcode search, and click on the radar on that page, scrool down to the bottom, and it has lat, long on there. Just drag your mouse over the map to get it.Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 13:51, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I still don't see how this will show me anything outside the US. DirkvdM (talk) 18:34, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Just search Google for "world map latitude longitude" does that help?Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 14:03, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

No. Did you find anything like that? Not surprisingly, it only gives world maps, and I would like a little more detail, to put it mildly. :) Dropping 'world' from the query doesn't help either. DirkvdM (talk) 18:34, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Multimap provides coordinates for any point that you choose to centre the map on. It's not quite what you want - no lines on the map, but an excellent statement of what the coords are for any chosen point. You'll find the coords in the bottom right side of the page. Google does the same, but in a more obscure way, embedded within the "link" url. --Tagishsimon (talk) 18:49, 8 September 2009 (UT

Yes, I knew about the Google Maps feature, which is way too complicated to be practical. And Multimap does does the same as Shadedrelief, but uses way too smal a map and isn't very handy in several other ways. Thanks for the input, though. DirkvdM (talk) 11:58, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Iconic image

I have been looking for the iconic image - The image consists of English HQ or command female pushing forces around a giant map table, i have tryed all sorts of wording but to no joy any ideas?Chromagnum (talk) 13:20, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

This is shown in the film Battle of Britain, with WAAFs pushing markers around the board. Those search terms should help you - I found this which has a small image, but I'm sure you'll find many more. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 13:28, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

"RAF operations room" seems like the right search term. I like their special croupier's rakes, they give an air of gambling to the whole thing. 213.122.36.227 (talk) 14:02, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

There are similar scenes in the rather well known film Sink the Bismarck! Deor (talk) 15:23, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't have time to look for images online, but they have one of those rooms at the avaiation/war museum in Duxford. Maybe that will help someone find one. --Anon, 22:28 UTC, September 8, 2009.

If it helps you narrow your image search, these are the names of the women's branches or auxiliaries of the British armed forces during World War II:

• Auxiliary Territorial Service (A.T.S.) — Army (my mother served in the ATS)
• Women's Royal Naval Service (WRNS or Wrens) — Royal Navy
• Women's Royal Air Force (WRAF) — Royal Air Force

So, for example, a picture caption might refer to Wrens moving markers around a map or table.—— Shakescene (talk) 04:15, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Try [3] [4] [5] DJ Clayworth (talk) 17:57, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

I've always known the table they work on as a "Shuffleboard".Googling that(plus WWII) got me several hits..hotclaws 17:08, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Population of America

what is the current population of America? What percentage of this population comprises the work force? what percentage of all the jobs have been lost since 911? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.53.222.64 (talk) 16:14, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

304,059,724; 59.2; I don't understand the question. --Sean 16:57, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

The US only does a complete count once every 10 years, so our most recent census data is for 2000 when the US population was 281,421,906. This number is estimated to now be 307,340,000. I do not have information to address the other 2 questions at this time. Googlemeister (talk) 18:25, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

The New Jersey Department of Labor projects that the 2009 workforce of the US is approximately 156 million. Based on the estimate above, that's 51% of the total US population. As for unemployment, the US measured 4.7% in September 2001 versus 9.7% today. Thus, unemployment has more than doubled since the September 11 terrorist attacks, and the total number of jobs lost is a slightly higher proportion, since the workforce has presumably grown in size since then. — Lomn 19:27, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Presumably that rise in unemployment is primarily due to the current recession and has nothing to do with 9/11. --Tango (talk) 19:32, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

The rise in the workforce size means fewer jobs have been lost, not more, than is indicated by the unemployment rate. For example, if the workforce has grown by 10% then there are more jobs now than then, even if the unemployment rate is higher.. DJ Clayworth (talk) 19:58, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Many people will have lost their jobs, but gotten new ones. The unemployment rate alone doesn't account for this. APL (talk) 20:06, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

The Bureau of Labor Statistics measures the size of the US labor force. Here is a link to their figures for August 2009: [6]. The total labor force was 154,577,000. --Xuxl (talk) 20:05, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

@DJ: By 'workforce' do you mean 'those available for work, either working or not' or do you mean 'those working'? If the former, the 'workforce' would have absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the number of jobs available (whether taken or not). Similarly, if the latter, the 'workforce' would have no bearing whatsoever on the number of jobs available (whether taken or not). --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 20:10, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

The given link defines "workforce" as "employed + unemployed". "Employed" is obvious, and they define "unemployed" as those who have searched for work in the past month. --Sean 20:20, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

The definition Toto cites is the one I'm using. I'm also assuming that "jobs lost" is a net change, i.e. the reduction in the total number of jobs. My point is that an increase in unemployment rate can occur if the number of jobs increases (i.e. no jobs lost) but the total workforce increases faster. DJ Clayworth (talk) 21:10, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

That makes more sense. Sorry to pick you up on that, DJ. It's not something I normally do, but your original post didn't seem clear enough (and in fact, didn't quite mean to me what you have just said now). Thanks for the clarification. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 21:51, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

July 2009 data: population estimate 307.226 million; labor force 154.504 mn; civilian employment 140.041 mn. The employment figure is 3.195 million more than in September 2001, an increase of 2.3%. Most important to the current data is the fact that we’re in the worst global economic slump since the 1930s. DOR (HK) (talk) 08:12, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't think the United States was even around back in 911. 194.100.223.164 (talk) 16:37, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

The territory (as in the land itself) was, but I don't think the natives recorded any employment statistics. Googlemeister (talk) 13:42, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia in Other Languages

Wikipedia won't let me login as myself on the Japanese Wikipedia. Do I need to create a completely new username and profile for every language I wish to visit? --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 19:03, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

(This is really a helpdesk question) No, single-sign-on should allow you to sign in with your en.wikipedia login. I suspect that this may mean that someone may already have created a KageTora account there. If that's true (check to see what "your" contribs are there) you may be a able to usurp the account (if it's done only trivial things). -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 19:06, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, but when I try to login to Japanese Wikipedia using my own username, I get a message in Japanese saying that my username (when written with the two capital letters in it) does not exist. When written in all lower case letters, it just says my password is incorrect - leading me to believe there is a user with that name (in lower case). It seems that I can't login as myself. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 20:05, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

And for the WP link about this, see Help:Unified login Dismas|^(talk) 20:21, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

It's starting to get silly, now. When I try to login it says the username doesn't exist, but when I try to make the account, it says the username is already taken. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 20:43, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Have a look at your preferences/"Manage your global account" and see if the ja Wikipedia is on the list (also I think this belongs on the help desk or something, oh well). --antilived^{T | C | G} 01:07, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

I clicked on 'Internationalization' and ended up with English Wikipedia in Japanese, not the Japanese Wikipedia. As for "Manage your global account", ja Wikipedia is not there, but de Wikipedia is, for some reason. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 02:16, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

The Unified Login system is a bit complicated and confusing. (Check out that link from Dismas.) Originally the wikis had their own logins. Then a unified wikimedia-wide login system was introduced that would allow you to log into all the wikipedias. However, since it was introduced after the fact, there are collisions. It can only work properly if someone hasn't already taken your name. APL (talk) 13:30, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't speak Japanese and I am not strong in the single-signon-fu, but I suspect that since the account name kagetora exists on jawiki, you won't be able to create (or use) the account name KageTora there. (The account creation system doesn't allow too-similar names to be created, which rules out account names which differ only in case.) The login screen, meanwhile, is case-sensitive, which means that KageTora really doesn't exist on jawiki. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 03:25, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes I'm pretty sure that's the problem. In fact, if you go to [7] we find KageTora exists on en and de and [8] Kagetora exists on en and ja. Notably the en and ja Kagetora ones were created after KageTora. My guess is you've created all these accounts but simply forgot. As ToAT says, and mentioned in Wikipedia:Username policy (but likely applies to all wikimedia projects) too similar usernames can't be created by ordinary users, I presume Kagetora on en was created before this was implemented (on Ja it's irrelevant since it was before SUL). You may want to try logging on to Kagetora on en and ja with passwords you think it may be or try the forgot password function. If the Ja account belongs to you and you are able to demonstrate it, it should be possible to request a rename and merge. Merging the de one may already be possible. Even if you can't find a way to access these accounts, merging should be easy since none of the other accounts have any contributions. I know in en it's easy to request an usurpation if the other account has no contributions and you do have sufficient contributions. De and Ja will likely be similar particularly when it comes to SUL issues. (Technically an usurpation probably isn't necessary for Ja, you just need an admin to create an account but to avoid future issues I would recommend it.) In any case, you will need to request help with this, as outlined in Help:Unified login. BTW, while you may not have to do anything with the En Kagetora, but you may want to request a rename to prevent future issues (e.g. accidentally logging into the wrong account). I don't believe you can merge multiple accounts on the same wiki. Note that once SUL is active, an account will automatically be created at any other wikimedia project you visit while logged in, so don't be surprised by that (take a look at [9]). You can probably disable this somehow if you don't want it. Nil Einne (talk) 14:50, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

September 9

poker machines

Which country in the world has the highest number of poker machines per capita, and, the highest number in total?02:53, 9 September 2009 (UTC)Cassandraduggan (talk)

From Slot machine:

"In 1999 the Australian Productivity Commission reported that Australia had nearly 180,000 poker machines, more than half of which were in New South Wales. This figure represented 21% of all the gambling machines in the world, and on a per capita basis, Australia had roughly five times as many gaming machines as the United States. Revenue from gaming machines in pubs and clubs accounts for more than half of the $4 billion in gambling revenue collected by state governments in 2002-2003."

This doesn't say much for the rest of the world. Steewi (talk) 03:33, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Wanna bet?  :) -- JackofOz (talk) 08:11, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Online poker makes any PC potentially a poker machine. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 09:24, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

If those figures are correct, I make it that the U.S. has approximately 58% of all the poker machines in the world, so that must be the highest number in total. The most per capita might be Australia, but Monaco would only need a couple of hundred to beat it. Warofdreams talk 09:27, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

This source [10] claims NZ is the second highest per capita. It doesn't say what's the highest but I'm presume it's Australia particularly as our 20k is obviously lower per capita then Australia's 180k. On a somewhat related note [11] says Australia spends the most on gambling per capita so perhaps the high pokie level is not surprising Nil Einne (talk) 18:49, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Triggering an external flash

I have an old non-brand name external flash from a film camera (I have only the flash) and I'm wondering if it's possible to trigger it manually. Can this be done without breaking into it, and if not, how does one trigger a flash from the inside? Thanks! 124.154.253.31 (talk) 04:27, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Is it hotshoe mounted? If it is you can trigger it by shorting the big contact with the edge of the shoe. --antilived^{T | C | G} 05:00, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

It is hotshoe mounted, but how might I go about shorting the big contact "with the edge of the shoe"? Is the shoe the part of the camera that it's supposed to attach to? I tried it on my DSLR (I know now that was probably a bit risky), but either it couldn't recognize that it was there, or the flash just doesn't work (possibly both). 124.154.253.31 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 06:22, 9 September 2009 (UTC).

The hotshoe article shows a picture of the shoe holder on a camera. Antilivid means to short together the mating contacts on the shoe part of your flash. Many flash units have a test pushbutton that does the same thing. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 09:18, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Hmm I've always thought hot shoe is the part on the flash, but it seems it's the socket... --antilived^{T | C | G} 11:07, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

If it were the other way around, it would be a 'hot foot'. And no, I've never heard the part on the flash referred to as the 'foot' of the flash. Dismas|^(talk) 20:54, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

FYI, older flashes may develop a high voltage across the hotshoe terminals, which can damage the electronics in modern cameras. If you're thinking of trying the flash on a newer camera, do some research (and realize there's still some risk of inaccurate information). -- Coneslayer (talk) 13:10, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Please do not open the flash to experiment with it. An electronic flash uses a circuit to raise the battery voltage to several hundred volts, stored in a capacitor, which is quickly released through the flash tube. If that energy passed through your chest, it might well stop your heart. Electronic flashes I have owned had a little button to manually trigger the flash. Look for that. Edison (talk) 23:07, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Provinces and capitals of Region 1, Philippines

what is the provinces and capitals of region 1 in the philippines? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pearlversion pokemon (talk • contribs) 07:00, 9 September 2009 (UTC) This questioned repositioned from previous entry overlapping previous question. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.4.181.14 (talk)

Try Regions of the Philippines, it should provide the information you want. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.4.181.14 (talk) 07:19, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

To Kill A Mocking Bird

In the book To Kill A Mocking Bird."Our courts have their faults ,as does any human institution , but in our country our courts are the great levelers and in our country all men are created equal"

Critically analysis how the trial of Tom Robinson disaproves this belief? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.11.134.77 (talk) 10:49, 9 September 2009 (UTC) Preceding comment edited for Caps lock by AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 11:59, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Please do your own homework.

Welcome to the Wikipedia Reference Desk. Your question appears to be a homework question. I apologize if this is a misinterpretation, but it is our aim here not to do people's homework for them, but to merely aid them in doing it themselves. Letting someone else do your homework does not help you learn nearly as much as doing it yourself. Please attempt to solve the problem or answer the question yourself first. If you need help with a specific part of your homework, feel free to tell us where you are stuck and ask for help. If you need help grasping the concept of a problem, by all means let us know. SteveBaker (talk) 14:12, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Ah the good ol' days of critical analysis... But no, we won't do your homework for you. --antilived^{T | C | G} 11:03, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

. . especially if you shout!! Turn off your caps lock. 86.4.181.14 (talk) 11:31, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

If you are studying English Literature, you probably should learn the differences between "analysis" and "analyse" and between "disapproves" (note the double 'p') and "disproves". As with any student, you should also learn the importance of doing your own homework. --Tango (talk) 13:54, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Not to mention the proper use of the question mark. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 14:27, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Tom killed a bird that had been mocking him, he was sentenced to a prison term on an deserted island, where he eventually escaped (on a friday), but not before having to eat 30 eggs and to celebrate had a butterfly tattoo, inked on his chest Perry-mankster (talk) 17:46, 9 September 2009 (UTC)(B.Eng Lit (failed))

No, it was 50 eggs, I saw Paul Newman doing it!86.4.181.14 (talk) 17:49, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

The standard American usage (as in Harper Lee's title) is mockingbird (one word). --- OtherDave (talk) 18:12, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Consider this - what does it mean for the courts to be the 'great levelers' and for all men to be created equal? Does Tom's trial/treatment/experience reflect a system which upholds these principles? Why or why not? Hope this doesn't count as doing OP's homework but as just giving him/her some pointers. --Joe^Talk_Work 21:11, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

I assume by "this belief" you're referring to the belief that US courts encourage "level" playing fields and that all men are equal. This seems easy - just choose five or six relevant elements of Tom Robinson's case and explain how each one shows that the justice system is not fair and that Robinson is not considered equal. Start with a gripping introduction and end with a fancy conclusion and you should be fine. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 11:10, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

National Healh Plan

Describe the proposed national health plan proposed by President Obama. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.235.0.116 (talk) 12:13, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Welcome to the Wikipedia Reference Desk. Your question appears to be a homework question. I apologize if this is a misevaluation, but it is our policy here to not do people's homework for them, but to merely aid them in doing it themselves. Letting someone else do your homework does not help you learn how to solve such problems. Please attempt to solve the problem yourself first. If you need help with a specific part of your homework, feel free to tell us where you are stuck and ask for help. If you need help grasping the concept of a problem, by all means let us know. Nanonic (talk) 12:20, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Do Health care reform in the United States#Obama administration proposals and America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 answer your demand? AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 12:26, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

To be honest, this is something of a moving target. The president has been 'adjusting' (OK - majorly refactoring) his plans in a vain effort to get the republicans on-board. Since that ship appears to have sailed, he now has to reposition it to allow every single democrat to vote for it since there is no room for a single democratic "no" vote if it's to pass without republican support. So expect the contentious parts to be left vague in order to preserve 'wiggle room'. Obama is giving a big speech to (I believe) the Senate later today where things may become a lot clearer. If you're tasked with writing a paper about this - you should really find a radio station that's going to play it "uncut" (probably, any NPR station will do) and listen to what he actually says...which right now is the closest you're going to get to understanding his true position as of today. However, you can bet there is some serious horse-trading yet to come as those democrats holding out with the last few votes realise that this is the last chance they'll get for a long time to have the presidency "owe them a favor"! SteveBaker (talk) 14:09, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Most members and adherents of the U.S. Democratic Party consider themselves to be republicans (few want to restore the monarchy), and most Republicans consider themselves to be democrats (rather than champions of aristocracy or autocracy), so please capitalize when referring to one of those political parties or Congressional caucuses. ;-) For some reason editors at all levels seem to misspell section headings more often than they do body text. —— Shakescene (talk) 15:05, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

That is because the misspelled words are underlined in red in the body, but not in the title, so mistakes in the title are more likely to go unnoticed by the writer.

Even without 60 senators on board, there's Reconciliation (U.S. Congress). --Sean 16:58, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

In fact the President hasn't directly put forward a specific plan so far. He's left that up to congress, which has produced several different bills that are making their way through the House of Representatives. He's sort of vaguely endorsed certain provisions that he'd like to see in a bill, and as SteveBaker mentioned, even those stances have been shifting as the White House and its allies in congress try to gauge what they can reasonably hope to get passed and negotiate with the various parties involved. The speech will hopefully contain a lot more concrete details about what he wants and expects to be in a final bill, so you can find out with the rest of us tonight. Rckrone (talk) 18:17, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Philanthropic traveling

I have planning a trip to either Europe or South America and someone told me about sponsored, philanthropic travel. An organization pays your way and for 7-14 days (whatever), you go to a certain country and work for about 4 hours a day and for the rest of the day you are free to explore the country. Can anyone point me in the right direction? --67.85.117.190 (talk) 15:22, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, I don't know how much you can explore any country much bigger than San Marino if you have to get back to base to work a four-hour shift every day. Nor am I clear on which direction you expect the philanthropy to flow: there are plenty of organisations that will take your money and allow you to volunteer in their orphanages, etc.; however, if you wish someone else to pay you to go travelling, you might look into travel writing instead. For an in-depth look at a country, with no money changing hands, try WWOOF. BrainyBabe (talk) 18:58, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Voluntary Service Overseas is a charitable organisation which involves overseas work, the categories at the bottom of the page should help you find similar, perhaps more suitable organisations. I understand that much of the work is aimed at teachers/medical people, but their will undoubtably be other opportunities.83.100.250.79 (talk) 19:25, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Category:International volunteer organizations and Category:Development charities may be useful.

If you can narrow the type of philathropic work you want to do, this may help, also try "volunteer work overseas + skill/occupation" as a search term.83.100.250.79 (talk) 19:29, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Cry the beloved country

Who was Stephen's guide and closest friend in Johannesburg?Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 16:31, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

For the book, see Cry, The Beloved Country. Reverend Theophilus Msimangu is the guide, played by Sidney Poitier in the 1950s movie version, and by Vusi Kunene in the 1995 movie version. ---Sluzzelin talk 16:46, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Any special reason you wrote "1950s" rather than "1951"? —Tamfang (talk) 05:32, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

medical and legal troubleshooting charts

Is there a list of medical and legal troubleshooting charts? I know that charts are discouraged (although they are used extensively by laymen in Africa) because in advanced cultures they can cut into the bread and butter profits of some doctors and lawyers and can not be held liable if correct. The patient and client however should have the ultimate choice of which they find for their own budgets are better to use.-- Taxa (talk) 20:23, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

I have seen a medical troubleshooting book before. I think it was put out by one of the US military branches, the navy or coast guard or something. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 20:35, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

In the US Nolo.com publishes a range of legal self-help books, which contain checklists, sample letters, and some summaries of relevant statute and case law. In the UK the Consumers' Association publishes similar self-help books, of which a few are legal in nature, or related to property (list) and which have similar info. Every modest sized bookshop in either country will sell a family medical encyclopedia. Professional and academic bookshops will also sometimes sell more technical checklists and so forth (intended for semi-professionals, like paralegals or nurses); while these aren't intended to replace lawyers or doctors respectively, I'd bet that in deprived places they often nevertheless are. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 20:40, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

The closest I've ever seen to this was an insanely complicated wall-chart in a pharmacy which plotted possible interactions between prescription drugs, OTC drugs, and health symptoms. Simply put, medical and legal problems are often not amenable to yes/no or look-in-table questions. The starting point is often "I just got a lawyer's letter and I want to sue them" or "Doctor, my tummy hurts". So there is a process of discovery, "which lawyer/who do you want to sue?" and "where in your tummy?" Then there is the time aspect, which is a human thing. So the expert watches when you say "no, I just got this letter yesterday" or "no, it only started hurting last week". Then they say "are you really sure? Or have you noticed anything in the past?". How do you put those nuances into a flowchart?

Now it's certainly true that troubleshooting charts would be highly useful for military medics in the battlefield, whose job is to preserve the fighting capability of their unit and to move the incapable out. But I wouldn't call that competent medical "advice" - and neither would I think it was a good legal tactic.

And I wouldn't think the problem is a desire to protect profits. There are tons of medical and legal advice sites. But I think the idea that there can ever be a definitive checklist for these sort of complex fields just ignores how truly complex they are. In both medical and legal areas, more important than "being right" is not being wrong. "The chart said so" is never an excuse for "well, I just died!". "The chart said to file this form" is not an excuse for "I just lost my house"... Franamax (talk) 01:02, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

You kind of have to know how a decision table/flow chart works, especially one that is dynamically optimized and automated. They should be open to constant revision, just like a wiki. In fact this would be the perfect place to publish such a chart. Nuances are just additional variables or states. -- Taxa (talk) 19:51, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

The UK government has set up the National Pandemic Flu Service with both a website and a national free phone line. I'm not in the UK so can't check out how it works. -- Александр Дмитрий (Alexandr Dmitri) (talk) 12:21, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

written narritive

How do you wright one? And, could I interview someone here?Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 20:47, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

"Narrative" is basically a fancy name for a story. What do you need the interview for? Xenon54 / talk / 21:06, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Maybe this is my day for speculation: our narrative article does indeed describe a narrative as a story, but to me there is more. A narrative is a description of events that is free of commentary or speculation. A narrative should only present the known facts and avoid opinions. So the way to write a narrative is to try to accurately present the things that actually happened, with the minimum of opinion injected. A good example would be a judgement written by a judge, which mostly tries to avoid presenting any personal opinion on the part of the writer, and doesn't try to switch the order of events around to lead the reader to a conclusion. In fact, narrative writing is a lot like what we try to do in Wikipedia articles all the time, just present the neutral facts.

But that's only my opinion, Tolkien wrote a perfectly good narrative and Kurosawa made a perfectly good film. These are both narrative in terms of telling a story in temporal sequence, but fail my definition because they give extra insights into character and/or introduce background story elementa out-of-sequence.

So maybe you should clarify then - do you want to write a creative narrative, or a factual narrative? (And yeah, what is the interview for?) Franamax (talk) 00:32, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

The Hobbit was perfect? I take it that for you, the words perfect and boring are not unrelated? --Trovatore (talk) 02:38, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Hehe, 'tis true that opinions on written works are pretty much one per reader! :) I only meant it as a good storytelling example of a narrative, in that it describes a sequence of events with a fair but not excessive amount of external discourse on backstory and internal life of the protagonists. I suppose it would depend on your own time of reading life on first encounter, exposure to other and maybe more modern forms of presentation, affinity to the themes embodied in the work. Shall we say pistols at dawn then? :) As an intro to the entire Tolkien narrative, or even as a work on it's own...well, I suppose it's a matter of taste... Franamax (talk) 02:58, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I never could quite get what people saw in Tolkien. However ... Babylon 5 was supposedly based on Lord of the Rings, and it's probably the greatest television epic ever made. (Not that many television epics ever have been made — I'm using epic in a fairly strict sense, meaning a multi-year story arc plotted out in advance.) --Trovatore (talk) 04:02, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Our OP[12] is a member of the Wikipedia Typo Team dedicated to getting narratives ritten write. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 10:46, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps he was thinking of the first public telegram in America? Dbfirs 20:48, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

"A patient waiter is no loser." or "What hath God wrought", when was a telegram ever "public", and what oh Dbfirs has this to do with the OP ?

The "quality of light" to artists

Neither the article on Optics, nor any other that I've been able to track down, give any explanation of what artists would describe as "the quality of light" - the reason why painters are attracted to certain areas, such as Cornwall in the UK, because (I assume) of the clarity of the atmosphere or the patterns of reflection or refraction between the sky and the sea (I'm guessing here - I am certainly neither an artist, nor a physicist.) Can anyone help explain what this concept actually means, or where I can find a reasonable explanation of it? Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:18, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

It seems many painters like the seaside - this could be because of high light levels (no hills in one direction), reflection of light from sea, and maybe higher uv levels.

This might be interesting [13]

Low atmospheric pollution levels may also be a factor.83.100.250.79 (talk) 23:12, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

It's a term used by artists, at the other end of the scale you may be experiencing "advertising material produced by the St Ives tourist board to promote a certain class (purchasing power) of person to their resort".83.100.250.79 (talk) 23:14, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

I can't really find it in the Van Gogh article, but I'm fairly sure that he whas atttracted by the "quality of light" at Arles, and persuaded Gauguin to join him on that basis. I can say from experience that the Arles area has a certain indefinable quality of light and the sky is a captivating shade of blue. To some extent, this was and still is due to lack of pollution, and Cornwall being a relatively windswept and unindustrialized peninsula, I could see the same condition applying. In the case of Arles at least, I'd also speculate that a relative lack of humidity might play a major part, when I was there it was pretty dry. The proof of that would be how low humidity affects spectral scattering, which could explain that deep blue sky - but this isn't the Science desk! And if you assume that the relatively moist countryside of England would generate reletively higher humidity over land than cold sea, then the Cornwall peninsula would have relatively drier conditions than the rest of England, so again humidity. This is all total speculation of course, drawing only on Van Gogh's own impression and a few shaky inferences. Franamax (talk) 00:04, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Pollution may be a factor in a different way than you think. For me, there is nothing like the late afternoon light in Los Angeles. It's a golden glow I associate only with my favorite city, and it affects me at an emotional, nostalgic level.

But when I try to think what might cause it (other than, which is certainly possible, that my nostalgia is the cause rather than the effect of this perceived glow), the only thing I can come up with is the smog. --Trovatore (talk) 02:43, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Absolutely, local factors will always be important for local and former residents. It's quite possible (well, true) that I have an emotional affinity to my visits to Arles. Nevertheless, is wasn't my first impression of the area, and my greater familiarity with Van Gogh and his own impressions of the "light" came later, But I don't think that our OP is asking about "light" as an emotional factor, rather as a subjective factor in aiding the painting process just as much as the artistic process. So by my reading, does the quality of the ambient light itself in certain areas help in painting interpretations of a scene? I have some JW Turner prints of London smog on my wall right now to prove your thesis, but I also have a few Van Gogh's (prints too, I'm not that high-falutin'!) showing a fixation on that clear sky. I think the OP's question is whether there is something compelling about "quality of light" and whether that can be quantified. For Cornwall (and maybe Arles), this clearly can't be defined as presence of pollution. For these locations of artistic preference, a different answer is indicated. I'll still prefer lack of humidity (which = lack of haze) and secondarily lack of aerosol pollution (which = lack of haze) as contributing most to quality of light. If you are talking about "quality of scene", then yes, air pollution can deliver. Closed steel mills on the Allegheny and dead ships stranded on the shore of the Aral Sea count too. Just not sure whether they qualify under the OP's criteria. Franamax (talk) 03:56, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

For Cornwall, at least, I'm sure it's something to do with the facts that the air is clear (no local industry and not humid (thanks Franamax)), it receives "clean air" from across the expanse of ocean immediately to the west, and it is largely surrounded by the sea which reflects light in a different way to the land. @83.100.250.79, it is clearly a real factor - see Newlyn School and St Ives School. But we're all still guessing really - someone somewhere must have done some serious study on this. What's an "OP" by the way? Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:33, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Original Poster. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 07:41, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Glad it's not abuse! Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:05, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

No quality of light is more "artistic" than any other. But there are a host of other things that make some areas inspiring to artists. These things include social and economic conditions that welcome artists, inspiring natural landscapes, and a climate and available locations that suit an artist spending time outdoors. Lighting conditions that change dramatically with season and time of day will stimulate an artist to capture a particular brief lighting mood.Cuddlyable3 (talk) 10:33, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Thank you, but that is not what I meant - the original question was clear. Ghmyrtle (talk) 20:35, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

More precisely, your original assumption and guesswork are clear. My answer is to think outside the paintbox. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 12:14, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

The BBC TV series 'Coast' made in collaboration with the Open University covered this very subject when they visited St Ives in Cornwall (UK). I'd recommend it... Juliankaufman (talk) 18:20, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

"Northern light" has a reputation for being well-regarded by painters. Bus stop (talk) 18:32, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Besides which, they guide me back to you. —Tamfang (talk) 05:43, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

manufacturing

how to do on line coating on nylon monofilament for sharp kite line —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nuovafil (talk • contribs) 22:58, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

you should ask on the science desk for a better response

Did you mean coat a monofilament nylon line with something - like teflon? - specifically - what substance?83.100.250.79 (talk) 23:07, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Or are you interested in Manja (kite), in which case we're in ground glass territory. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:17, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

In which case be aware that a falling, windblown sharpened kite line can form a serious hazard to innocent bystanders. And the kite blowing free with an unkown length of trailing sharpened line will be pretty dangerous too. Franamax (talk) 23:41, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

September 10

ibanes guitar

i have ibanes destroyer guitar 1975or1976serial number is h7765681 tell me about this guitar —Preceding unsigned comment added by Firewind54 (talk • contribs) 01:09, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Start here: Ibanez Destroyer. Come back with any follow-up questions. Consider asking at User talk:TheDestroyerGuy - that user seems to have been responsible for much of the ID article. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:11, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Photography question

After reading about the so-called "Crasher Squirrel", I started to take a look at the National Geographic Daily Dozen. The photos are all really impressive for a lot of reasons, but I am blown away with how rich the colors are and how much depth there is in most of the pictures. My crappy little digital camera takes photos with no depth and washed out colors. Obviously a lot of the depth is due to raw megapixellage, I suppose, but what about the richness of the colors? Put simply: in buying a camera, what exactly is one looking for if you want to get photos that have this level of richness to them? I know that a huge amount of photography is in setting up the shot, but some of these seem just way better than anything my camera could ever produce, no matter how brilliant I was in arranging the photos (and I'm not half bad at that). I am sure this is something that serious camera people know about... could someone enlighten me? --98.217.14.211 (talk) 01:40, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Actually, regardless of how many megapixels your camera has, MUCH of the depth-of-field and color richness is going to be due to the camera lens. The tiny lenses in a cheap digital camera will not capture enough light to produce the kinds of high-quality images that professional-grade cameras, even digital ones, will. Having an insanely high number of megapixels just means that your camera will more accurately store its poor-quality images. --Jayron32 01:56, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I think the sensor is actually more important than the lens. If you have a fixed area for the sensor, the only way to get more pixels is to cram more charge-coupled devices into that fixed area, meaning you have to make them smaller. But the smaller they are, the noisier they are. So if you want higher resolution with the same fidelity, eventually you have to actually make the sensor bigger. --Trovatore (talk) 01:59, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Point-and-shoot digital cameras typically have quite small sensors. More expensive SLRs have APS-C sensors, which are smaller than 35mm, but allow greater light-gathering power, reduced sensor noise and higher resolution. Professional-grade SLRs use full-frame 24 x 35 mm sensors, with further advantages, while Hasselblads use an even larger sensor, up to 40 x 53 mm. Note that larger sensors may have the same megapixel count as a smaller sensor; megapixels do not necessarily translate to better quality, unless you're making very big prints (and even then there are ways around that). Like increasing size in film format, larger sensors produce better images, all things being equal. However, it may be that you simply have the camera settings wrong. Most consumer cameras have "picture modes" that enhance certain ranges to taste, usually by making colors more vivid for landscapes, or by narrowing depth of field for portraits. You might be using a default mode that does nothing. Also, any professionally-produced image will be processed in Photoshop or Lightroom to alter contrast, saturation, vibrance, exposure range, etc. You might want to try some post-processing in the software that presumably came with your camera, or use Photoshop Elements. Acroterion _(talk) 02:11, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

DSLR - I have yet to see a point and shoot that can reproduce the look of DSLR and film cameras. --antilived^{T | C | G} 02:18, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Of course, the problem with DSLRs is that they're big, heavy, and expensive. For me personally the problem with "expensive" is not the one-time outlay but the fact that it means you have to be so careful with it. I do most of my photography in situations where I want to be able not to get too upset if my camera gets wrecked, and where I don't want to bother with either the weight or the bulk of a DSLR. But sure, there's a compromise to be made in image quality with that approach. --Trovatore (talk) 02:36, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

There is a really great NASA page somewhere that relates quality of lens to size and resolution of detector - it makes the point very forceably that lens quality and detector size (not resolution) is THE determining factor. Since a 35mm camera will have a much bigger lens than the pathetic little thing that most cheap digital cameras have - that explains the results you've seen. Now - where was that dang NASA page? Oh yeah...Here!. SteveBaker (talk) 03:01, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

The OP may be viewing the National Geographic pictures on a screen that emits light or printed on high quality glossy paper. The same pictures printed on ordinary paper using a common inkjet printer may compare better with pictures from the OP's camera. Small digital cameras usually employ JPEG data compression that degrades the picture, but some have an option to obtain the raw picture (larger file). Cuddlyable3 (talk) 09:57, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments. (Just to reply to a few simple things: no, Photoshop won't improve the depth of my pictures, trust me; no, I'm not viewing the National Geographic site any differently than I would my own photos, mine just look like crap.) It seems that in the end if I want something that really looks good, I have to invest in a bigger sensor and a bigger lens. That's helpful. (And my little crap camera was not meant for much, so I'm not trying to rag on it.) --98.217.14.211 (talk) 14:24, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Nobody's mentioned the two biggest factors: quality of lighting, and skill of the photographer. No amount of hardware or software will rescue a landscape that's been photographed in the late afternoon, where the color has been washed out by haze and high, thin clouds. And skill tells you where to stand, where to point your camera, and what to wait for to get the best picture possible. --Carnildo (talk) 23:57, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Get the exposure correct by understanding how and why to use a light meter properly. Obviously you then need a camera that can have its exposure manually set. I'm sure the National Geographic photos are also then digitally processed to adjust the brightness, contrast, colour saturation etc. High dynamic range imaging is an example of what can be done by manipulating a digital image, see also Tone mapping and in particular the image of the Grand Canyon which illustrates the importance of correct exposure. 89.243.184.30 (talk) 20:41, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Wine tasting

At wine tastings, do the tasters get drunk? I've been under the impression, based on a MindTrap question from long ago, that tasters didn't even swallow the wine, much less drink enough of it to become drunk. But a friend of mine told me that the participants at a wine tasting were carousing around drunk afterward. I read our entire article wine tasting, but either it doesn't say or I'm having some serious reading issues. ÷seresin 03:05, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

No, they don't. Well, at least they don't get drunk off of what they are judging. My father has been a judge at a tasting or two. From what he has told me, the amount in the glasses is quite small. Through an entire tasting, the judge may only put into his mouth what most people would call a regular sized glass or two. If I remember the numbers correctly, they only taste about 2 ounces of each wine from a group of maybe five to ten wines. And yes, they do spit it out. Dismas|^(talk) 03:45, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Often, sommeliers may not swallow wine, as they are primarily concerned with keeping sharp senses for the purpose of very carefully judging and grading the wines they are tasting. However, at public wine tastings; the type where you go to the winery and pay your 20 bucks, and sample a variety of wines that they offer, people don't spit the wine out. Basically, its a twenty dollar wine buffet, and the level of inebriation is up to the customers. I think it would be socially rude for people to get shitfaced at a wine tasting, but I have certainly maintained a good buzz at one, and I expect many people may as well. --Jayron32 03:42, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Loving the combination of 'socially rude' and 'shitfaced' into 1 coherent and accurate sentence! 194.221.133.226 (talk) 08:03, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I am to please, or as the sign over the men's room toilet stated "You aim too, please!" --Jayron32 14:26, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

The op's question sounds like a public wine tasting event. Like Jayron said, it's up to the participant. There's usually signs or flyers that explain that you may spit or swallow, so there will be people walking around drunk and people sober. Personally, I think wine is usually too good to waste. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 04:21, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't understand why people at wine tastings would ever spit it out. Surely in order to judge the wine, you need to swallow it to get the full taste. I know practically nothing about wine, but how much can you tell about a wine just by sloshing it around? Otherwise you're like a film critic who writes a review of a film having left it half way through. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 09:18, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I believe it's because the taster may need to sample several wines and he would need to keep his senses "sharp", as Jayron mentions. I know less than nothing about wines but perhaps it is possible to make inferences about the full taste by merely sloshing it about. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 09:40, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Sampling or consuming a wine are as different as dating or marrying a lady. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 09:48, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

(Edit Conflicts) As a real ale connoisseur and trained taster (yes, there really are courses on how to drink beer!) I agree that the gustatory sensations experienced during the swallow and for up to a minute therefter, known in our circles as "the finish", are an important portion of a drink's overall qualities, and should not be neglected - beer tasters always swallow, and both describe and (when applicable) award marks to the finish.

Although the finishes of wines are generally not as prominent overall as in (good) beers, they are (to my perceptions) still significant. That they are de-emphasised in formal wine tasting is perhaps partly because that activity takes place in social circumstances that frown more on mild inebriation, and partly because, wines being somewhat stronger than beers, inebriation would ensue more swiftly. (Increasing inebriation does also lessen the ability to discriminate and judge tastes properly.) It may also be that the finishes of wines are more persistant than those of beers, making successive assessments of different wines more difficult if swallowed, but since I myself rarely drink more than one wine per occasion, I cannot vouch for this. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 10:04, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I was at a wine tasting last week and although spittoons were provided, very few people were availing themselves of them. I certainly didn't and got very drunk indeed. Cheers! Now, 'do you spit or swallow?' that is a question I never thought I'd see on the reference desk! Juliankaufman (talk) 18:17, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Since we have no taste buds beyond behind our tongues, there is no need to swallow in order to ensure one obtains the fullest experience. And, a professional taster may try literally scores of wines in a single day.

More interesting, professional single malt whisky tasters (at the distilleries) don’t put that delicious beverage in their mouths at all! Rather, one puts a small amount in the palm of one hand and after vigorously rubbing both hands together, inhales the fumes. Because most tasting is actually smelling, the results are good enough to judge the quality of the whisky, and yet not enough to overwhelm the taste buds after just a couple of attempts. One should not, however, drive afterwards ! DOR (HK) (talk) 07:33, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Umm according to our article, "Taste buds are small structures on the upper surface of the tongue, soft palate, upper esophagus and epiglottis that provide information about the taste of food being eaten." So there are some in the throat as well. Googlemeister (talk) 13:41, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

What is this signature?

I was looking at some photos the White House has posted to Flickr and there is a picture of President Obama signing a bill. There are three signatures: Nancy Pelosi, President Obama and another person, who appears to be president pro tempore. Who is the signature? It doesn't look like Robert Byrd or Joe Biden's signature. --Blue387 (talk) 03:22, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Actually, it could be Joseph Biden's signature. It is not identical to the one in our article on Joe Biden, but it could be a more formal signature (our article's signature is for Joe Biden) "Joseph R. Biden" or something like that. There is definately a middle R. initial there. I cannot read the first name, but the initial capital of the last name looks as though it could be similar to Biden's distinctive "B" in the signature of our article. Presumably, as the official President of the Senate, his signature would adorn a bill passed by the Senate, and not that of the President Pro Tempore... --Jayron32 03:34, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Blow it up to "original" size and you can see that the second signature is that not of the Vice President of the United States and President of the Senate [ex officio], but of the acting President of the Senate pro tempore (emphasised words written in). "Acting" would not have been added to the title of Robert Byrd, the elected but ailing President pro tem. So it's someone else. There are 57 other Democratic Senators (counting Joseph Lieberman but not Bernard Sanders), but I haven't figured out which one. A list you can check yourself is at Template:Obama confirmations (which I formatted, but which unfortunately doesn't include all the middle initials). —— Shakescene (talk) 05:11, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Obama signed the Bill on August 7th. Now the question is when did the Acting President pro tempore sign it? The Acting President on August 7th was Jeff Merkley. On August 6th it was Kirsten Gillibrand. On the 5th Tom Udall. On the 4th Roland Burris. On the 3rd Mark R. Warner, the only one who's name (or signature) comes close, but not quite. 80.123.210.172 (talk) 11:06, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

It looks like a poorly done Mark R. Warner to me; the k is not very complete but the rest looks exactly like his signature, albeit more hurried and/or nervous or whatever (the W is a little out of control, but clearly his). I give him a C- in calligraphy. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 12:52, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Name

Whenever I make up a nickname for one of my friends, it is unsuccessful, but whenever someone else makes up a nickname, it is successful, even if my nickname is better. Why are my nicknames so unsuccessful? Jc iindyysgvxc (talk) 05:48, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Because things like nicknames are very subjective and depend on the taste and fancy - but not only of the person nicknamed, much more on that of the collective that in prospect will use it. Also, when announced, it needs to catch on quickly, and there needs to be a group of people to use it. For example, I had a few nicknames attached to myself, like Gruber (back in primary school, I don't know why for sure), Bohun because of some of my family roots, or Dynamite because I was dilligent at work, but none of them stuck, because there wasn't really anybody to call me that, the collective I mentioned above was practically nonce. Another one, however, stuck - Joker, even though I didn't really like it, and there was a bottleneck, it remained and even this year I got to know people that started calling me by it. I believe it stuck because it was simple, funny, and plays on a certain aspect of my physique (take a guess!). And it's been in continuous use for 15 years - and counting. --Ouro (blah blah) 06:44, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

A nickname has to achieve a certain "critical mass" in a society in order to grow in usage or at least be self sustaining. The OP doesn't say what his/her criteria are for judging one nickname as better than another. One must not forget that "no nickname" i.e. using a person's real name, is a contending usage to using any nickname at all. Nicknames are generally liked for their appropriateness and recognizability, not considering who created them. Perhaps the OP's friends are distracted by their knowledge that the OP is busy inventing nicknames and monitoring who uses them. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 08:59, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

If you are choosing nicknames like your username, it is understandable that they dont stick :) Googlemeister (talk) 14:40, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

lonely planet guide to tokyo ignores disneyworld

I have a 1994 guide to tokyo by lonely planet and includes details of the tokyo disneyworld, how to get there, the cost etc., yet the latest editions make no mention at all of disneyworld. why is this? isn't lonely planet supposed to be impartial. this is too big an attraction to ignore. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Payneham (talk • contribs) 06:25, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Maybe the Disneyworld itself isn't what it used to be compared to what's available closer to home in the English-speaking world. NeonMerlin[14] 07:50, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Guidebooks only have a certain amount of space and they can't include everything. By and large the kind of people who use the Lonely Planet guides will not be interested in going to Disneyworld. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 08:03, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

What would make you think that Lonely Planet is supposed to be impartial? --LarryMac | Talk 15:59, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

It's called Tokyo Disney Resort (and not Disney World Tokyo), and (despite its name) it's in Chiba, not Tokyo. So maybe it is in the Tokyo book, but you're not looking in the D part of the index, rather than the T part. If that's not it (if it really isn't in the book) then Lonely Planet may have shifted coverage of it from the Tokyo guide to the general Japan guide; that's particularly likely if you're looking at one of their little pocket-sized city guides, which tend to stick exclusively to the stuff that's in the centre of cities, not attractions in the outskirts or in the greater metropolis. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 20:13, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Both science and art PhDs

How many people have PhDs in both a science and an art or humanity? NeonMerlin[15] 07:49, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

One hundred and thirty-six. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 08:07, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

And there was I thinking the answer to everything in life was 42... Gazhiley (talk) 13:05, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I didn't really expect anyone to get that, so I'll explain. I'm quoting from Bob Dylan, who in a 1965 interview was asked the ludicrous question "How many people who labour in the same musical vineyards in which you toil, how many are protest singers?" To point up the daftness of the question, Dylan shot back the response "How many? One hundred and thirty-six." --Richardrj ^{talk email} 13:33, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't think statistics at this level are kept. We can give you total numbers of science PhDs (in the US, anyway), total numbers of humanities PhDs, but have no number that indicates where they overlap. (And they surely do; I know a number of people who have such degrees—often one in a hard science and one in history, which produces a pretty sharp history of science.) --98.217.14.211 (talk) 12:58, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

It does happen. While they are not PhD degrees, I have a friend who has two degrees, in Chemistry and in Journalism; he currently works for Science Friday as a producer. --Jayron32 14:23, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

At least one. I know someone with PhDs in both Nuclear Chemistry and Ethics. DJ Clayworth (talk) 14:34, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

And don't forget that at Oxford (and probably elsewhere), they award D.Phil degrees insttead of Ph.D's. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.22.85.155 (talk) 19:21, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

PC problems

This question has been moved to the Computer Desk where it might benefit from more experienced help. 86.4.181.14 (talk) 13:13, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Cry, the beloved country (book)

Who is the skilled speaker who had been corrupted by his love for power?Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 13:16, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Have you tried reading the book? Algebraist 13:19, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but I don't remember these little details...Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 13:20, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Is anyone going to help?Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 13:57, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Please do your own homework.

Welcome to the Wikipedia Reference Desk. Your question appears to be a homework question. I apologize if this is a misinterpretation, but it is our aim here not to do people's homework for them, but to merely aid them in doing it themselves. Letting someone else do your homework does not help you learn nearly as much as doing it yourself. Please attempt to solve the problem or answer the question yourself first. If you need help with a specific part of your homework, feel free to tell us where you are stuck and ask for help. If you need help grasping the concept of a problem, by all means let us know. --Sean 13:59, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

The answer, if you don't remember the details, is to read the book again. When you are reading a book for a school assignment, you should read it many times. The entire book should probably be read 4-5 times (though not all at once, you may just re-read certain passages once you are familiar with the structure of the book) before you "get" the entire book. Reading it only once, and then trying to remember specific details OR to provide a critical analysis of certain parts is probably not going to work well. Just re-read the book; its not that long and you can likely go through it much faster the second time, as you should be more familiar with it. --Jayron32 14:21, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

That might be a good strategy in a perfect world, but I can't imagine that's a practical option for 99% of college students. Even completing all of one's assigned reading once can be a Herculean task... -Elmer Clark (talk) 03:07, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

What's the name of this kind of puzzle?

I was looking at the Puzzle article and they didn't have anything like this [16]? What's the name/category of this type of puzzle? Searching on 'Picture Puzzle' redirects to the 15-puzzle, which is something different. These types of things show up on intelligence tests like the Naglieri Nonverbal Ability Test, but they seem like puzzles to me. 20.137.18.50 (talk) 13:59, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

It's a form of pattern recognition, so pattern recognition puzzle? --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:07, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I found answers at Figure Reasoning Test and Raven's Progressive Matrices. 20.137.18.50 (talk) 14:20, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

It looks more like a typical IQ test. SteveBaker (talk) 19:48, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Breaking a lease

I'm living in an apartment but I'm moving out. In May we signed a (one year) lease. I called the apartment place up and they said that I have to pay 2 months rent if I move out before May. Is there ANY way I can get out of this? It's a huge amount of money. Chris M. (talk) 14:43, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Some states have laws requiring military members to be able to get out of leases.20.137.18.50 (talk) 14:55, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Given that you're asking about how to (re)interpret a legal contract, you should consult a lawyer. The Reference Desk does not provide legal advice. — Lomn 14:58, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, you didn't move out before last May, so you should be OK... unless you meant next May? In which get a lawyer.86.202.154.16 (talk) 15:03, 10 September 2009 (UTC)DT

I wasn't sure if there was some standard law that allows people to get out that you guys could point me to the article about it. (US, North Carolina). I'll see if I can find a lawyer who I can get advice from for free. The thing is, the goal (in asking here) is to NOT spend money. Chris M. (talk) 15:08, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

We can't give legal advice, even if it is easy advice. You will need to find a lawyer. But do check your dates - last May has passed... --Tango (talk) 15:11, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't sound standard. Giving notice is a common requirement in lease/rental agreements [17][18], and the NC DOJ says it's your duty to pay all rent legally due under your lease [19]. It may be (check your contract) that you just have to tell your landlord 2 months before you move out, so you can still live there for the next two months. We don't know the constraints on when you're moving out. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 16:27, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

In terms of legal ways of getting out of this, absolutely go find a lawyer. Only a lawyer is going to give you good advice about the law.

However you might try seeing if you can persuade the landlord to let you off the rent. I managed to talk one down to a month-and-a-half rent once in a similar situation. See if they will agree to refund the second month if they let the apartment inside a month. Maybe you can find someone who will take the apartment from you? DJ Clayworth (talk) 17:19, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

A lease is a legal contract. Read your lease to see what you have agreed to legally. Most leases commit the tenant to paying rent for a full twelve months. If that's what your lease says, to my knowledge in most if not all states, the landlord can require you to pay all twelve months whether you live there or not. So your landlord is probably cutting you a break by offering to let you go with just two months' rent as a payoff. To find out whether your state allows you to break a lease unilaterally (hard to imagine), you'd need to check with a lawyer, although, given lawyers' fees, depending on your rent, it might be cheaper to pay the landlord two months' rent. Check your lease for language about subletting the apartment. If your lease does not limit or forbid subletting, you could advertise for a sublettor to take over your rent, though you would still be legally liable for his or her rent payment and treatment of the apartment, so you'd want to check references and choose carefully. You could also try to negotiate with the landlord to come up with a better deal. For example, you could ask if the two month's payment could be waived if you found them a suitable (in their eyes) tenant before you leave. You could also try pleading poverty and say that you are breaking the lease because you are unemployed and out of money, and you just don't have the money to pay them two month's rent but you can afford to give them [name a price] if that will get them not to pursue legal action. They might opt to accept such a deal rather than incur legal costs of their own trying to get a court to order you to pay or garnish your wages. But in any case, you put yourself legally at risk by violating any legal contract, including a lease, so if you can't or won't reach an agreement with the landlord, you should seek legal help from an attorney. Marco polo (talk) 19:31, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Or find an alternative tenant who will complete the contractual term in your stead?

A drastic but effective course of action would be to declare bankruptcy, as that allows one to break leases, however, I can not give advice to your situation as to whether or not such a measure would be beneficial. Googlemeister (talk) 19:44, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

You would then be unable to take out a new lease, in most cases. You would have to get someone to sign as guarantor. --Tango (talk) 19:48, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

As Tango's response points out, legal actions have legal consequences. While we can offer advice on negotiating a deal with the landlord, I don't think that we should be offering advice on legal actions such as declaring bankruptcy. For those, you should consult an attorney and ask about consequences. Marco polo (talk) 20:34, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Presumably (from the lack of any correction) the OP is in the USA. In the UK there are organisations such as the Citizen's Advice Bureau which are able to offer low-cost or free legal and similar advice relating to very common situations such as this. Also, some solicitors (= lawyers) offer advice free for the first half-hour, which may well suffice for such clear-cut situations. Are there not similar low-cost/free sources of advice in the USA (outside of The Bronx)? 87.81.230.195 (talk) 21:56, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

As the IP editor says just above, there are many lawyers who will do a free half-hour consult, call your local Law Society. And there are lots of tenant-advocacy websites and law firm websites that have FAQ pages about these issues. Make sure you find one in your state/city. In many jurisdictions, the only damages which can be claimed are actual damages, and the plaintiff has to act so as to mitigate their damages, i.e. try to find another tenant. So if the landlord has a tenant ready to go when you move out, you will owe them for the cost of a newspaper ad - but they won't tell you that. When I moved into my current apartment, I asked the building manager why no term lease and he chuckled and said "why bother, it's meaningless anyway" (there is a rental agreement that I can't make too much noise or set off nuclear weapons indoors, but no term to the lease). But it will all depend on your jurisdiction, many of which have specific residential tenancy laws. So check the local websites and see if you can get some free time for a quick chat with a lawyer. You may be able to draft your own letter to the landlord, but yeah, we don't offer specific legal advice. Franamax (talk) 22:07, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

The Legal Services Corporation was established in 1973 and still funds and supervises semi-independent offices and clinics all over the United States. Congress has forbidden them from instituting any more class-action lawsuits, but their purpose is to help those without the means to pay private lawyers with just the sort of bread-and-butter civil dispute that you're facing. Check the Internet and your local directory to see if there's a Legal Services for your area. Otherwise, as suggested above, see if you can get free help from the local Legal aid, where individual lawyers volunteer their services for the same purpose (civil disputes). —— Shakescene (talk) 20:40, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Landcrete, a building material in west africa

Hey,

on the website ghanadistricts.com, where you can find lots of data on all the districts in Ghana, I came along the term landcrete as a building material for houses. This site also mentions sandcrete as a building material, and it is easy to find information on this material. However, I could not find any info on what landcrete (presumably a weaker variation of sandcrete) is. Googling does not give any info, and further research on the ghanadistricts.com site didn't supply me with information either. Does anyone know what exactly landcrete is? What is it's composition, what is its strength, etc? Thanks in advance! [[85.147.237.96 (talk) 15:05, 10 September 2009 (UTC)]]

According to this site, it's the same thing.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 17:03, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your answer. As I read the website however, there is actually a difference between sandcrete and landcrete: "Unlike landcrete blocks, sandcrete blocks have to be made upon a pallet, as they are too soft to be carried when freshly made." I did find an article on landcrete on the autonopedia website, http://autonopedia.org/buildings_and_shelter/Rural_Building/Landcrete_Blocks.html , so thanks to you I found what I was looking for. Great! [[85.147.237.96 (talk) 20:38, 10 September 2009 (UTC)]]

Most popular mangas in the US?

Is that Bleach or Naruto or One piece? Or something else? Also I want to know about the popularity of Death Note and Detective Conan. What do you think are the reasons behind the popularity of these mangas? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.0.7.166 (talk) 18:00, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

As the above mentions, the reference desk isn't the place for opinions Nil Einne (talk) 18:28, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

My interpretation was that when the OP said "popular", he/she meant "has the most readers / viewers / fans", which is objective and measurable and not a matter of opinion. I don't have any idea, unfortunately. Tempshill (talk) 20:57, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

True, but the "What do you think are the reasons behind..." is a leading question inferring opinion. Trying to reformulate it into a factual question not requiring opinion is proving difficult... -- Александр Дмитрий (Alexandr Dmitri) (talk) 12:12, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Easy enough. "Have any views been published as to why these are as popular as they are?" Vimescarrot (talk) 13:06, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

That's not what the OP asked for though. If the OP wants that, he or she is welcome to ask for it and I wouldn't have said anything, but the OP didn't and I think it is important that the OP understands we are not going to tell him/her what we think here on the RD. If the OP doesn't understand there's a big difference between asking "what do you think" and "are there any reliable sources discussing the reasons for the popularity" or "what do the reliable sources say are the reasons for the popularity" then it is also important that they learn there is a big difference Nil Einne (talk) 23:52, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

This is a list of highest selling manga in the U.S. for late 2008. Naruto leads the list while Death Note is #6. 75.41.110.200 (talk) 13:46, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

"The fire is 71% contained"

In news reports on the August 2009 California wildfires, officials are describing the status of specific fires in terms of a percentage contained. Percentage of what? The perimeter length? --Anonymous, 18:53 UTC, September 10, 2009.

It is very common for politicians and journalists to use percentages without saying what it is a percentage of. Unless the percentage in question is 0 or 100 it is completely meaningless. There is no way to guess what they mean by it unless it actually says so in one of the articles. It could be perimeter length, or area, or even potential cost of damage, there is no way to know. We also don't know what the total is - it could be what is currently burning, or what has been burning at some point during the season. We also don't know what they mean by "contained" - if it was completely contained so it couldn't spread at all it would go out very quickly due to lack of fuel, so they must mean something more relaxed than that, but there is no way to know how much more relaxed. --Tango (talk) 19:00, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

...except that it's a pretty standard term amongst firefighters. To contain a fire means to construct (or use existing) control lines around the perimeter of the fire and any spot fires that can be reasonably expected to halt the fire spread. The percent contained usually means the portion of the current fire perimeter adjacent to a control line, but if the fire is expected to increase much in size it could be the portion of the projected control line which will contain the final perimeter.

You might also hear "percent controlled". To control a fire means to construct a control line around the entire perimeter, spot fires, and interior islands which are to be saved, and remove any threats so that the control lines can reasonably be expected to hold under foreseeable conditions.—eric 21:49, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. --Anon, 07:38 UTC, September 11, 2009.

Jeering a Presidential speech on the floor of the House

I know that unlike Prime Minister's Questions in the United Kingdom House of Commons, decorum is the order of the day in the US Congress. Has there ever been a case in history where a Presidential speech of a joint session of Congress was booed and heckled, before last night? Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 21:09, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Frankly, I was shocked when I heard the "You lie" followed by booing. They're acting like five-year-olds. Anyway, it's happened before, but by protesters, not a member of Congress, and definitely not an internationally televised speech. Opposers of the (last) President Bush did it on a few occasions (cf this Huffington Post article). Xenon54 / talk / 22:06, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

But speaking as a regular Brit watcher of the Bearpit PMQ's I have to say how impressed I was by Mr. Obama's handling of the situation when he clearly heard the insult, and pointedly pointed to the belligerent perpetrator. Whatever his electorate think of his politics at future elections, I hope they also recall his appalling behaviour (the belligerent) for which abuse he would have been ordered by The Speaker and removed by the Sergeant at Arms from the Chamber of the British House of Commons until such time as he voluntarily recanted his insulting remark in full frontal view of the Parliament Assembled - failing which, he would have been prevented from re-entering the House. Though I suspect he would continue to collect his bloated salary, holidays, pension and expenses, not forgetting his subsidised bar and restaurant bills.92.8.200.162 (talk) 23:08, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Apparently Representative Wilson's Democratic opponent in the upcoming election has gotten a big uptick in campaign contributions since the outburst. I should have been more specific in my question, I was really asking whether a President had ever been heckled by members of Congress. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 23:15, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

It might be worth pointing out that while PMQs does tend to be vociferous, direct accusation of lying is avoided because it's non-Parliamentary language and the Speaker will require the Member to withdraw it. There was a striking exception on 14 July 1994 when Peter Hain had only just been called to ask a question when Rod Richards yelled "Liar!" at him at the top of his voice. Read here for what happened next. (The disagreement was over whether Hain had correctly notified three Conservative MPs about his intention to criticise their private financial interests in the previous day's debate) Sam Blacketer (talk) 23:43, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

It think there is something of a distinction between the president, addressing congress and the PM's question time. Firstly, the role of the president is in many ways ceremonially closer to the role of (say) the Queen. If someone had interrupted the Queen's address to parliament with "You lie!" - they'd be in incredibly deep doo-doo! Secondly, the PM's question time is not a formal presentation from one person to a group - it's a discussion and it's informal by its very nature. When one person is speaking a formal speech - it's really rude to interrupt in any way - but calling the person a liar is beyond the pale. Booing isn't good either - but at least it's a non-specific, general expression of dislike - that's a LONG way from calling someone a liar in front of the entire congress and an enormous TV audience. Finally, the President was (technically) invited to speak - there is an expectation of respect for someone who has been brought into the group. With the PM, he's working there every day - he's not even elected by the people - only by his own party. But notably, even in the extremely heated conditions of PM's question time - nobody calls anyone else a liar that directly without getting into a ton of trouble.

Actually the President was not lying. That's not a matter of opinion. You can go and read the the text of the proposed bills that are out there - they all say that illegal aliens don't get coverage - and that's what the president said. They say it in clear, unambiguous language. Ergo, the president didn't lie and Wilson committed the sin of being impolite as well as that of lying himself!

What Wilson is actually trying to communicate (and god knows he's doing a terrible job of it) is that the bills do not contain language explaining how illegal aliens who might hypothetically try to use the new system to get free healthcare will be tracked down - and what punishment would be inflicted if they broke the law. That language was indeed yanked - which some believe is an attempt to sneak in a loophole for illegal immigrants into the law. That's not an unreasonable complaint...

...unless you dig down and find the facts.

The real reason for removing those provisions from the bill is actually rather a solid one - based on solid past history - which it would be nice if the opponents would take the time to consider: In the past, exactly such a citizenship verification rule was imposed upon Medicaid in an attempt to "clamp down on abuse". What happened was that when this verification procedure came into force, only SEVEN people were ever found to have been cheating and EIGHT THOUSAND legitimate US Citizens were denied coverage. The Medicaid verification scheme had to be abandoned under a hail of criticism. What kind of idiot builds a provision into a new bill - knowing full well that based on the best available evidence, it'll fail? Yanking those provisions was a good decision - based on sound historical precedent. Wilson is entitled to fail to recognize that - but translating that into calling the president a liar is going WAY too far.

The very MOST you could say of that clause in the President's proposal would be "You aren't skipping some of the more subtle ramifications!" - but I guess that's too many syllables for a 'sound bite'.

SteveBaker (talk) 01:38, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, you really stayed on-topic there, nicely done. kmccoy (talk) 01:47, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Two observations: One, the Republicans are disenfranchised and increasingly desperate, pulling out all the stops and being as vicious as they know how to be. Two, Baker's comments are pretty similar to what he wrote on the talk page of that congressman, and which was deleted by an IP address who appears to be a sock or mimic of the indef'd user Axmann8, a skinhead neo-Nazi white supremacist Obama-hater (that's how he portrayed himself, don't blame me for those words). This is really getting beyond the realm of the reference desk and into talk page debate - as well as a WP:ANI report on the IP and Axmann8, which I did already, just FYI. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 01:51, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Er - I didn't write anything on any talk page of any congressman. SteveBaker (talk) 02:54, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I was thinking of this [20] which was kind of similarly worded, though actually posted by an IP. Same general editorializing. However, my complaint isn't with that IP nor you, but with Axmann8. So this section is kind of veering away from being a help desk entry and towards being a debate. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 03:04, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

In case you're still wondering, see this article in Slate (magazine): [21]. Makeemlighter (talk) 02:21, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

That's a good article, thanks, Makeme. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 04:44, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

The bottom line is that GOPers don’t know how to be -- or don't believe in -- a loyal opposition. DOR (HK) (talk) 07:41, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

A British gentleman Sir Robert Armstrong would respond to such a boorish interjection with understatement "A misleading impression, not a lie. It was being economical with the truth." President Obama can take comfort from the 3rd President Thomas Jefferson "The man who fears no truths has nothing to fear from lies."Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:39, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

To be fair, "loyal opposition" hasn't been accurate for the (president's) opposition party, Democrat or Republican, since at least 1993. -- 128.104.112.179 (talk) 14:54, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Because a handful of morons automatically discredits the entire Republican Party, right? Makes sense. Makes perfect logical sense.--WaltCip (talk) 14:59, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure where the 1993 date comes from. It was way back in 1964 when Nelson Rockefeller was booed off the stage at the Republican Convention by Goldwater delegates. (Of course, the current crowd repudiated Goldwater in the last years of his life because he didn't believe it was the government's job to inflict religion on the public.) Goldwater was a person I could disagree with but admire. Not many such left. PhGustaf (talk) 18:37, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Given how routinely one can expect very bad ideas in such speeches to get thunderous applause, I asked a few years ago (in another place) whether any member of Congress had ever had the decency to boo, and was told that they sometimes "sit on their hands" as a way of explicitly not applauding. (I'm not advocating "You lie!", unless in response to scapegoating, but "Folly!" is entirely appropriate. Politics is not a school play.) —Tamfang (talk) 16:03, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

The booing

It was my impression that the booing after "You lie !" was a condemnation of that outburst, and not of any part of Obama's speech. Am I correct ? If the boos came from Republicans only, then I may be wrong. StuRat (talk) 17:03, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

If, on the other hand...

This is NOT the forum to actually discuss this, but can you imagine the ruckus that would have ensued if a Democrat had said that to a Republican President? In my opinion, the reaction would be similar to the one raised by parts of the Muslim community when that cartoon of Muhammed with a bomb in his turban was published a few years ago. Ugh... --DaHorsesMouth (talk) 19:18, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Charles Edward Stratford

The above was a horse jockey and trainer during 1880-1912 era.

We are trying to locate a photo .We understand he accompanied Richard Mason then NZ GREATEST HORSE TRAINER TO australia with horse called Lochiel where he beat Carbine the greatest horse of this era.We need your assistance.ORRSOM —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.237.228.242 (talk) 23:24, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia has an article on the horse Carbine. Both Carbine and Lochiel are named in the pedigree of a horse called Rogilla. You could ask a local newspaper if they have a picture of Lochiel winning the race. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:16, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

September 11

architect

frankly, what are the core subjects that an architect must be well-versed in?

i very well know two of them are physics and math. what about chemistry? and other subjects? please inform me...

thanx —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.50.130.182 (talk) 02:36, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

A lot of the knowledge needed as an architect is pretty architecture/construction specific, like about the systems that go into a functioning building, building materials, lighting, using various design software, building codes, etc. Two other important skills are having good spatial sense and good design sense, although I guess those might not count as subjects and there's a limit to how much they can be taught. Geometry is important, especially as people get more adventurous with using curves and complex shapes as allowed by new computer techniques, but there's not really any higher math involved as far as I know. Certainly nothing past calculus. Some physics is important, but it's pretty specific things. For instance there's clearly some structural engineering involved in designing a bulding, but a lot of times architects will consult actual structural engineers on those details. Disclaimer: I'm not myself an architect so I may be leaving some things out, I just know a bunch of architects. Rckrone (talk) 05:39, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I recommend you try looking at the websites of universities. Most of them will list requirements for their undergraduate courses. For example, Cambridge in the UK says "a combination across [the humanities/science] division is the best preparation", while the Center for Environmental Planning and Technology in Ahmedabad mentions only Mathematics as a compulsory subject, but demands a minimum aggregate score over all subjects. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 08:11, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Building is subject to local regulations which architects are assumed to know about. The regulations may include zoning, building standards, distance to adjacent buildings and borders, connection to gas/water/electricity/sewage, car parking, fire regulations and more. Get to know the local approval procedures because that alone is an important service to your client. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 10:53, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

For the record, the physics class that the architects took at my university was a joke compared to the real physics classes. Googlemeister (talk) 13:32, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Architects must have a broadly-based field of knowledge that covers engineering (which leans on physics, thermodynamics and so on), law, psychology, art history, color theory, materials science, delineation, management, building codes and regulations and, last but not least, design. Physics appears in architecture school only as an adjunct to structural engineering and is not very rigorous. Calculus is usually required, but it is unusual to find an architecture student who does well at it. The critical skills, as pointed out above, involve three-dimensional visualization and design composition, which can be taught, within limits. That's why architecture students spend more than half their time in design studio. The law, physics, engineering and other matters make up the remainder of class time. Architecture schools usually assume that you can already draw and draft, and have some skill at technical design software before you arrive. Architects are expected to be articulate in both spoken and written communication, and an ability to clearly describe the design and construction process to laymen and experts alike is essential. Management skills come into use in the design production process, when the architect is usually the leader of a design team including engineers and other consultants, and during construction, when the architect is the chief point of contact between the design and construction teams. Acroterion _(talk) 15:14, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

question regarding roof ventillation for my home

I am building a home with reinforced concrete roof in a hot tropical region where there is heavy exposure to sun for 9 months of the year. The flat top RC roof traps the hot air and causes excessively hot condition indoor. I am planning to put holes in the roof to alleviate this. I want to put tin sheet pipes over the holes so that hot air under the roof would be sucked. Is this a wise and effective step? How large should these holes be in order to ensure effective stack effect? Can these holes affect the strength of the roof, when there is only walls on four sides to support the 6 m x 6 m roof of 10 cm thickness? --Jaffermon (talk) 04:42, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Similar structres exist on peaked roofs called Ridge vents. You could follow some of the links from that article, they may be illuminating for your particular problem. --Jayron32 06:04, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Can you build openings for ventilation under the eaves of your roof? They do not weaken the roof, are less susceptible to rain and can be blocked when you do not need the ventilation. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 10:47, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the replies. There are no eaves for the flat top RC roof. I can put the vents close to the roof on the walls but will they be effective? My experience says that the trapped hot air indoor hardly takes curved course to get out. I have narrow slits as vents immediate to the ceiling in my current home but they hardly let out the hot air. I don't know if hot air would get out through the vents I want to place right on top of the roof and can achieve the stack effect with some extended metalic pipe attached to the wind. That's where I am seeking advice from knowing people. --Jaffermon (talk) 15:11, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

The first and easiest step is to improve the reflectivity of the roof with a bright white or reflective coating. You should try to deflect the heat before it heats the mass of the concrete. Even though it's a hot climate, a little insulation could help, particularly in the form of a radiant barrier with an airspace under the slab. I can't answer whether a hole in the roof will affect the strength (we don't offer engineering advice here), but some relatively small holes that don't cut the reinforcing are unlikely to be a problem. You should consult an engineer. The sheer mass of a slab that thick (is 10" or 10cm?) will take a lot of time to cool, so ventilation seems to be a less productive strategy than reflection. Extending the vents upward will enhance the stack effect and give you something to seal to. Acroterion _(talk) 15:26, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Thank you Acroterion. Your reply was very helpful. In fact I had forgotten a basic fact that the mini solar chimney that I would mount on the slab wouldn't draw hot air at night. So, I need to employ other means along with this. There is one more question. Can this drawing vent be placed on the wall instead of right on top of the slab, and will it still draw? I mean to put a wall on the hole right under the roof and place a curved tin pipe upwards with enough surface area on top to catch the sun. Will this be as (or nearly as) effective as the vent on the slab? This way I can ensure that the strength of the slab is not compromised. Can operable ventilators right below the ceiling allow passage of air than larger ones below? In my place the windows usually are placed one meter from floor level upwards and the height would usually would be 120 to 150 cm. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaffermon (talk • contribs) 06:37, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

A solar chimney won't work as well at night, but it will still ventilate the space near the roof via the stack effect of the warmer air. Anything off to the side will work less efficiently in general and will be affected by breezes more easily; a solar chimney works best near the middle of the roof. You could also use a passive turbine ventilator that rotates in the wind and extracts more air than a simple vent. I think operable vents up high would be a nuisance to operate, but they could be contrived to take advantage of prevailing winds for cross-ventilation (as could any windows). Acroterion _(talk) 14:25, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

May I ask why you plan to put a 10 inch thick reinforced concrete roof on your house ? Are you expecting mortar attacks ? If not, I suggest a much lighter roof.

If you do stay with a thick roof, another way to handle things is to delay how long it takes for the solar heating to reach the interior. With thick enough insulation, you could get a 12-hour delay. By then (night) you may actually want the heat. If not, it's likely cool enough outside by then that some fans in the windows can cool it down nicely. StuRat (talk) 16:48, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks again. Ten cm, not ten inch was what I meant. Sorry for the mistake. can a tin duct sticking out say two meters above the roof attract lightning when there is no special protection against it? I can guess that it would be more vulnerable than the roof itself because it is metal and it stands higher. Is there any great risk so as to avoid it altogether or reduce the height? There is no chance of buying a wind turbine as solar chimney and passive cooling are never resorted to in this part. Do they come ready-made or are they usually improvised? Jaffermon (talk) 17:18, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, that would attract lightning. Why not add a lightning rod ? It can't cost much compared with the other modifications you plan. StuRat (talk) 12:31, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Solar chimneys are usually custom-made, and of substantial size. I'd think anything less than 20cm in diameter wouldn't move enough air to be worthwhile. Another suggestion would be to use a screening canopy above the roof - a light sunshade that supplies reflectivity and has enough space under it for air to circulate. It would need to be replaced periodically, but should cost less than lots of extra windows or vents. Acroterion _(talk) 15:53, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

job search alot of help needed!

i have a diploma in cabin crew from icm and a customer service college certificate, what other jobs can i apply for apart from airline jobs in kenya? pliz help. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.202.215.71 (talk) 07:34, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

• Annoying answer: You can apply for any job that you like.
• Less annoying answer: The qualifications you hold will place you in a better position for roles in the area the qualifications specialise in, but a lot of roles (non-specialist fields) are equally impressed by provable evidence of an ability to learn/dedication to get a qualification/all the other good implications of having got qualifications as they are it being in their specific field. That isn't to say it is equivilent to a local-field qualification, but they won't necessarily be worthless. Most office-based firms taken on huge amounts of staff that have qualifications in non-related fields - not everybody does Business degrees but that doesn't mean that a History degree isn't going to improve a person's chances of getting a role in a business. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 07:40, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

The Wikipedia article CV can help a lot. Your CV can really open doors to jobs for you so it is worth putting effort into it. Show your CV to friends and listen to their honest first impressions because there is always something you can improve, especially if you are too modest about what you can do. People sometimes wonder whether to have their photograph on their CV. I think that is a good idea because it makes you less of a stranger to the employer. Of course your picture will show a confident well-dressed person who looks trustworthy! Cuddlyable3 (talk) 10:38, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Does your community or university have an employment centre? They may also be able to help. — QuantumEleven 11:10, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Another tip - I have no idea what "icm" is - maybe Institute of Commercial Management? (This may be a UK/US common-knowledge gap). Either way, your CV or resume should not assume that the reader is familiar with your short-hand or abbreviated versions of anything - spell out exactly what your certificate or degree is, and exactly where you got it. Nimur (talk) 13:57, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Billy Cotton

http://img197.imageshack.us/i/41990687.jpg/ Is this man here Billy Cotton, the BBC Controller? I heard he was an ex band leader? yay, nay :(. ?

Billy Cotton was a band leader. His son Bill Cotton was the BBC guy. I don't know which, if either, your photo is of. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 14:07, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Being too many years old and having seen Billy Cotton Snr. and Bill Cotton regularly on TV in different eras, I can tell you that photo is neither of them. Richard Avery (talk) 14:56, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Oh well just thought he looked familiar, thanks anyway :). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.71.131.230 (talk) 15:31, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Google (or enter on another search engine) "41990687.jpg", the title of that photo on the ImageShack page. When I googled it, I found links to Turkish blog and a Baltic "fotoalbum". Of course, neither of these may be the source of that photo, but they might be worth looking into. "Give it a twist, a flick of the wrist, that's what the showman said." —— Shakescene (talk) 18:18, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

A TinEye search turned up nothing either. I agree that it doesn't look like either of the Bill Cotton's. SteveBaker (talk) 05:14, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Citizen's arrest of a police constable

Have there ever been cases where a citizen's arrest of a police officer (especially an on-duty one) has occured? From the UK especially, but also anywhere else in the world, is this legal today? (don't worry, I'm not pinning one down right now, no legal advice needed) --145.100.196.49 (talk) 14:13, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't know of it happening, but in the UK it would be legal. You can make an "any person" (you don't have to be a citizen) arrest if you know an indictable (or either-way) offence has taken place, you know or suspect that the person you are arresting did it and it is not reasonable for a constable to make the arrest. I'm fairly sure there is no exception when the offender is a constable. (If anyone is interested, a constable can arrest for any offence (including summary offences) and can arrest when they only suspect an offence has taken place - that is quite a bit broader than the conditions on any person arrests.) There are also provisions for anyone to arrest somebody who is "unlawfully at large" (eg. escaped prisoners) or who is disturbing or about to disturb the peace. --Tango (talk) 14:36, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I have a dim memory of someone who spotted a policeman parked illegally while they went in to get their dry cleaning and managed to prosecute them. I don't remember if they tried to make an arrest. DJ Clayworth (talk) 14:39, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't think parking illegally is an indictable offence, so such an arrest would be illegal. --Tango (talk) 16:07, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Well I guess the constable could try and argue they were there so could have arrested themselves. :-P Nil Einne (talk) 21:44, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

They could try, but I would argue that would be unreasonable! --Tango (talk) 22:59, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

See http://www.protectingyourself.co.uk/civil-powers-of-arrest.html for arrest powers in the UK.86.209.159.130 (talk) 15:38, 11 September 2009 (UTC)DT

I think that site is wrong. Civilians cannot arrest in all the same situations a police officer can. I explained the difference above. Try this page instead. --Tango (talk) 16:12, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I have contacted that site to point out their error. --Tango (talk) 16:23, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I can hear Gomer Pyle shouting "Citizen's arr-ay-est!" at Barney Fife right now. There's a risk in making a citizen's arrest, beyond the risk of exposing yourself to physical danger - you could be sued for false arrest. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 16:50, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

And/or kidnapping (or forced detention, anyway). Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 21:40, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Or assault/battery. You are allowed to use reasonable force to make a lawful arrest, but if it turns out the arrest wasn't lawful that force could be illegal. --Tango (talk) 21:51, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

All of these items are good reasons not to make a citizen's arrest of an ordinary citizen unless there's a clear and present danger and you can do something to prevent that danger. Otherwise, let the police do their jobs. As far as arresting a cop? Good luck with that, you'll need it! Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 22:34, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

If none of these answers are satisfactory - you can ask the police directly at Ask the police. Nanonic (talk) 22:57, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

chair design

chairs like this gives me creeps when I think of sitting in them. See those pits where neck would come in contact with the chair. They are greatly uncomfortable. I don't know what these supposed neck rests are called. Do they offer comfort for the neck and head? Is this a common feature to chair design? --Jaffermon (talk) 15:17, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Surely, given an average-sized person, the 'pits' are at about shoulder-blade level so that the neck and back of the head rest on the 'cushion' section above? Have you actually seen such a chair "in the flesh" (so to speak) and sat in one? If such chairs really were uncomfortable for many people, they would sell poorly and disappear from the market. (Sort of evolution by means of customer non-selection, when you think about it.) 87.81.230.195 (talk) 16:47, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

File:Aeron chair JN.jpg

WHat would bother me would be the plastic/vinyl/leather back. It's hard to beat an Aeron chair for comfort. SteveBaker (talk) 19:43, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Who is Martonas?

The speculations are many (Martin De Knijff, Guy Laliberté, even Mats Sundin), but does anyone know for sure? Entheta (talk) 18:53, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

In case anyone is wondering this refers to an anonymous player on Full Tilt Poker. There are various answers if you google it; I don't think anyone really knows, and it might be more than one person. Adam Bishop (talk) 04:12, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, at least one person would know. Clarityfiend (talk) 05:13, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Sea nation

Is there a nation, state, fleet, community or whatnot that are based entirely at sea and claim no other citizenship or statehood than their organization of boats at sea? -- Taxa (talk) 21:00, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Well there's the Principality of Sealand... TastyCakes (talk) 21:03, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

How about one that can move around rather than being anchored in the sea? -- Taxa (talk) 21:35, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Sea Gypsies83.100.250.79 (talk) 22:48, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

There are probably many nutjobs with houseboats that claim no citizenship (just as there are many nutjobs with land-based dwellings that claim no citizenship, etc). There are no such claims which are widely recognized. — Lomn 13:44, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Motivational poster

For my English class I was assigned to make a motivational poster of a quote from Antigone. My quote is "The truth is always best." What is a good image to go with this? --70.247.248.29 (talk) 22:57, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Superman always tells the truth. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 23:26, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

What? Superman's life is based on constant deceit. Algebraist 14:45, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

No it's not. He keeps his identity secret in order to protect others. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 15:37, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

I was originally going to suggest Jesus, but not knowing the questioner's background, that might not work. Superman, being a fictional character, seems harmless enough. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 15:39, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

He lies about his identity, but for a good purpose. Which is why the quote is wrong to say the least... the truth is usually the best except in those few situations when a little deceit gets everyone a better outcome and the release of the truth is actually counter-productive. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 18:06, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

This —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.54.46 (talk) 23:31, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

"The truth" is a slippery and overrated concept. Superman does not lie. If asked directly who his secret identity is, he would probably answer with, "I won't tell you." That's truthfulness. As far as behavior in general, the best policy is not necessarily "honesty", it's "the lesser sin". If you deceive someone, and that deceit is necessary to save their life, then that deceit is the lesser sin, because the greater sin would be to let them die. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 18:34, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

I think it depends on which Superman. The Clark Kent of Smallville tells blatant whoppers, repeatedly, even to the people he's closest to. Usually it's more or less to "protect" those people, but that motivation is not always terribly convincing, and I think it's not always meant to be. Clark's a good dude, but he has his weaknesses, moral ones, not just kryptonite.

By the way, I don't have a source, but I understand that the phrase honesty is the best policy is much misinterpreted. In Shakespeare's time, supposedly, policy meant cunning and craft. So the real meaning might be closer to Heinlein's formula that the best way to lie is to tell the exact truth, but to do so in such a way that no one will believe you. --Trovatore (talk) 23:07, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

I think "honesty is the best policy" can be taken either way (or several), including telling the truth in a complete and non-devious way that instils the trust that benefits everyone in the long run. But four hundred years ago one meaning or connotation of "policy" was statecraft, political savvy or cunning. Touchstone in Act V of Shakepeare's As You Like It says to a rival in love, "I will deal in poison with thee, or in bastinado, or in steel; I will bandy with thee in faction; will o'er-run thee with policy; I will kill thee a hundred and fifty ways; therefore tremble and depart." —— Shakescene (talk) 08:17, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Spock didn't lie, either. "Spock, what are the odds against a royal fizzbin?" "I have never calculated them, sir." PhGustaf (talk) 19:01, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Spock would be another good icon. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 19:22, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

So would Dudley Do-Right. "On, King! On, you huskies!". Oops: wrong icon. PhGustaf (talk) 19:45, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

While I've never been a fan of Superman so can't say for sure, I find it hard to believe that Superman has never lied in one of the many comics, movies etc. Definitely it is unlikely in real life. The truth is it is exceedingly difficult to cover something like a secret identity particularly a secret identity as a superhero who saves the world, without lying, since it's very likely things will come up in everyday conversation which requires you to lie if you don't want to draw suspicion no matter how good you are at fudging. Superman is clearly a bad example. Nil Einne (talk) 20:49, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Edit: Lookie here, despite your claim Superman never lies, he did in fact tell an obvious lie in one of the movies [22]. It occurred to me when writing earlier someone must have asked Superman whether he was Superman however as there are many ways to fudge your way out of this e.g. "Are you nuts?"/"Don't be stupid" without actually denying it (i.e. a Non-denial denial) I didn't use it as an example. But in fact he didn't do just that and did in fact clearly deny it in one of the movies. Maybe you're going to try and claim he didn't lie because he's not Superman without his cape or something like that (as the blog mentions when discussing the multiple personalities theory), but I'm fairly confident that the vast majority of people won't agree with you (particularly if the blog writer is accurate in that when Superman said he never lies, he explains it as his perception of reality). I would suspect there are even clearer cut examples if we look at the wider field, e.g. if someone asks Clark Kent whether he was at the location where Superman was seen. (This is an even more blatant example since it's one thing to argue Clark Kent is not Superman without the cape, it's quite another to claim Clark Kent is not Clark Kent when he's Superman). Nil Einne (talk) 21:05, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Edit2: More evidence of Superman being a liar [23]. Okay that's more because of an ignorant writer then any real need on the part of Superman (although if you buy the Superman is deluded theory in which case you may say it supports it) but since it's there you can't ignore it if you argue Superman is not a liar... Meanwhile, this source [24] suggests the new movie effectively makes Superman into a liar by him disappearing for 5 years. I'm not sure how this is the case. If Superman had said he's never leave then some might argue he's a liar if he does leave but unless he was at least considering it as a possibility it's a bit of a grey area since he can't tell the future so was perhaps more guilty of making a stupid promise that there's no guarantee he can keep then explicitly lying. Nil Einne (talk) 21:23, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

We're not supposed to do your schoolwork for you, as this is a test of your own imagination. Humour is often effective, but a picture of Darwin punching God on the nose (or vice versa) might not go down very well with your teacher. How about a picture of your teacher with a halo round their head?--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:14, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

How about this? Adam Bishop (talk) 15:08, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Youse guys better be careful about those sarcastic answers, or a drive-by IP will take youse guys to ANI also. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 15:38, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Current news may be good, and this particular one won't make anyone mad (unless you happen to own an oil company....) --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 15:56, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

It makes me mad, because I'm not an environmentalist and to my mind it's the cartoonist who has his head stuck in the sand, or perhaps up Al Gore's bottom. Mind you, I'm only a number. 213.122.35.3 (talk) 17:32, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

How about the famous photo from the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989? 213.122.35.3 (talk) 18:27, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

¶ If you just want a hint to get your imagination or memory started, that's fine. But once thinking you should take those hints and come up with your own ideas, most likely throwing out the original suggestions as unnecessary and irrelevant. (For example, if you had to come up with a new fruit salad, and someone here suggested oranges and bananas, while someone else suggested lemons and pears, ideally they'd get you thinking until you came up with an original idea for mangoes, blackcurrants and kiwi fruit.) However, if you do incorporate anything suggested here, you should follow the maxim of the poster itself and note that you did ask for ideas on Wikipedia. It's only fair to other students who've been given the same project. In that spirit, my hints would be that many people would recognize honesty as portrayed by George Washington ("Father, I cannot tell a lie", in an apocryphal, and probably false, anecdote in an old children's history book by Parson Weems) and Benjamin Franklin's maxim in Poor Richard's Almanack that "Honesty is the best policy." —— Shakescene (talk) 21:22, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

You could choose to show the contrasting thing, an easily recognisable and noted liar. Ideally (to really make your point) you'd show them at the point where their lies come back to haunt them. A photo of a recognisable financial fraudster in prison garb, or of a disgraced politician resigning, or being taken away by the cops. A picture of Richard Nixon resigning, perhaps? I'd steer clear of recent politicians, or of figures like Hitler or Stalin, as you run the risk someone will mistake your ironic use of them, and think you're really saying "Hitler/Stalin was right all along". -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 21:43, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

I underlined the quote in the fragment below, taken from the text by Sophocles. The context shows that it means truth as opposed to a soothing "white" lie. One might illustrate this by a picture of a doctor pointing out to a patient the cancer showing on the patient's X-ray picture.

MESSENGER Dear lady, I will witness of what I saw, and will leave no word of the truth untold. Why, indeed, should I soothe thee with words in which must presently be found false? Truth is ever best.-I attended thy lord as his guide.. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 23:36, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Rod Blagojevich. Tempshill (talk) 00:02, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

You might want to take at look at this for ideas. :) Royor (talk) 00:18, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

I thought a cat was obligatory?..hotclaws 17:22, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

September 12

undergraduate business courses for career in banking/finance

I have my eye on a career in the banking/finance field. My second preference would be working in an auditing/tax/financial advisory firm. I'm in year 2, not too sure about my job, but I'm planning in advance about my future courses. I will have a limited number of elective courses for my bachelor degree in business and I must choose a few subjects (among many) so that my business degree will have a focus on something (instead of just a "general" business degree). I am leaning towards accounting and finance subjects, but that's a lot. I have some questions for a better short list:

Is a course on monetary economics particulary relevant for a banking career? I heard some say that monetary economics is not difficult and reading a textbook will do? Is that true?

Financial accouting or management accouting? Which of these two is a better set of courses for my career field of interest?

How relevant is Auditing knowledge to banking? What about taxation? What about Cost management? If I must choose between those three, which path will be most benificial for my intended career field?

thank you very much 210.245.10.203 (talk) 05:24, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

I know nothing about business or finance, but I do know a thing or two about picking classes, so here's my stab at it. Your school probably has class advisors/career counsellors/business dept people who will be able to help you the best with this, since they'll know what all the options are at your school and will know what classes you'll need either for further education or a particular career. If you're not sure what person would be the best to talk to or how to contact them, my personal experience is that starting at the registrar's office and going from there is usually helpful. They'll be able to direct you to whoever can answer your questions well. Also, try talking to one of your professors who specializes in the field you want to go into. They'll have experience and knowledge in that field and will be able to tell you what will be most useful to you. 75.159.150.149 (talk) 22:17, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Corporate parenthood

Has a corporation ever been legally declared a parent (and not just a guardian) of an individual? NeonMerlin[25] 07:00, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the answer is no in the U.S. (or anywhere else for that matter). You probably need to tease out what exactly you mean by both "corporation" and by "parent." The state regularly assumes a parental role over children, in probably all nations, and perhaps specific offices (although probably part of the state) will be guardians of children. I haven't conducted a 52 jurisdiction review, but my instinct is no state allows parental rights to a non-individual. The Truman Show was a bit too soon. Shadowjams (talk) 09:34, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Is sex protection needed in the following situation?

In a relationship between two guys who are both are free of sexually transmitted diseases, and both don't have sex with anyone else, is unprotected sex okay? Like, are there still any significant risks involved that the use of a condom could protect against in a situation like this? 162.84.129.238 (talk) 19:10, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

We cannot give medical advice. I suggest you talk to a doctor. You can usually do so completely confidentially and it doesn't generally need to be your usual doctor. --Tango (talk) 19:15, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Oh, come on. Kainaw's Dictatorium makes it clear that this is an OK question for us to answer. Tempshill (talk) 21:56, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

The simple answer is, NO, it's not necessarily safe. See your doctor for further information. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 19:21, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Depends how much you trust each other not to shag aboutAllanHainey (talk) 19:31, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Activities that involve the sharing of body fluids all have their hazards. Condoms can likely reduce them (I give out a few free every Saturday volunteering for Planned Parenthood), but you really want to talk to a real doctor about this. (I'm thinking of a halftime show many years ago where the Stanford Band, whilst the Cardinal were playing the USC Trojans, made a formation simulating the installation and usage of such a device.) PhGustaf (talk) 19:39, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Really? In America? DJ Clayworth (talk) 14:30, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

It comes down to three simple things:

1. Are you 100% sure both are clean? (Some STDs can be hard to detect for long periods of time.)

2. Are you 100% sure both are not going to be having sex with anyone else? (I know it's a horrible thought, but it's what your doctor will say.)

3. Are you 100% sure both are not going to be exposed through a non-sexual route? (Neither use needles or in circumstances that would expose them.)

Those three conditions can never really be answered 100% positively in anyone, but depending on the people involved and their individual health and life circumstances (which we can't get into on here—that's the "medical advice" part we are avoiding), one can make estimations about what the risks are and what the trade-off is. In my experience, doctors are especially cautious about question #2—nobody expects their partners to sleep around, especially at early stages in their relationships, but obviously it happens a LOT more often than most people expect. I've had doctors who basically said to me that you can never make the assumption your spouse does not cheat, no matter who they are. I can see where that is a valid public health position, though it is not necessarily how one wants to live one's life.

It's always going to be a trade-off, no matter what you do. Nothing is 100% effective for avoiding STDs, not even true abstinence—there are non-sexual ways to get most of them too, however uncommon. The trick with sexual health (like many things) is to weigh what the appropriate trade-offs one makes between safety and living a worthwhile life are (at the extreme, living in a full-on latex suit is probably fairly safe, though a lousy trade off; on the other extreme, unprotected sex with many strangers is probably lots of fun, but not safe at all). This is not medical advice, and your situation will vary a lot, and discussing it with a doctor might help, though in my experience, doctors don't know all that much more unless they really know about you, your partner, your life histories, etc. (They do, of course, know the right questions to ask, most of the time.) And no, folks, I don't think that giving general public health information about how STDs spread and what kinds of social factors are involved for couples generically is "medical advice".) --98.217.14.211 (talk) 19:44, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

A gynaecologist I once worked for used to say that he did an STD check for every patient "outside of the nursery and the convent". That was 40 years ago. Now, he might even check them. // BL \\ (talk) 21:20, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Since this is a homosexual relationship there's also risks listed in anal sex#Health risks. --antilived^{T | C | G} 00:52, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Though, let's be honest, there are many heterosexuals who have anal sex, too. (And I'm not sure the specifics of anal sex risks are really what the questioner is asking about—which is about whether they need to use condoms or not, not whether they should have anal sex or not.) --98.217.14.211 (talk) 01:42, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

It's probably of some relevance since it increases the risk of successful transmission if one the partners does get a STD somehow. However as you say, this is not exclusive to male-male relationships nor is it something all male-male relationships will have to consider. Also the risks are high enough that relying on you not getting something from a regular partner whether its anal, vaginal and probably even oral sex is not a good idea Nil Einne (talk) 11:52, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Two words: Farrah Fawcett. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 12:30, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

What does that have to do with anything? --98.217.14.211 (talk) 19:53, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

What she died from and cautions about what causes it. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 20:07, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Anal sex is one of a number of risk factors for anal cancer; smoking is another. I'd be surprised if it's publicly known what the specific cause of FF's cancer was; I doubt we can put it down to anal sex. -- JackofOz (talk) 20:52, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

I think we're getting OT here. The question was about two committed male partners not using condoms. It wasn't about the health risks of anal sex. Anal sex with multiple partners is a strong risk factor for anal cancer and is likely caused by HPV infection so using a condom should reduce the risk (although our article doesn't mention any specifics on the reduced risk). However the risk from unprotected sex with a committed partner, even one who cheats on you, is unclear and likely to be far less. As I've mentioned STDs or probably should have said STIs in general are one concern and the risk is increased when anal sex is involved, but I don't see any reason to single out anal cancer as a concern. Nil Einne (talk) 21:47, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

As for Farrah Fawcett, I have to agree it was a completely irrelevant example. As far as I can tell, we have no idea if she ever even engaged in anal sex. If she did, there's nothing wrong with that, it is her private life, but saying someone who had anal cancer must have had anal sex is ridiculous. From what I can tell, it's not even certain if she has ever smoked [26] (it's likely but not definite). Remember we're talking about risk factors here. It doesn't mean you have to have any of the known risk factors to get the disease, your just much more likely if you do. If you aren't aware of any of this, you may want to read our articles on cancer and risk factor. And think about how you will feel if you or your family and friends ever get a disease and people say the person who got the disease must have done something they didn't do simply because they got a disease. Nil Einne (talk) 21:47, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

If any anal activity is in the mix, intercourse or otherwise, there is the risk of various nasties that hang out where the sun don't shine. Hepatitis is the most common concern, but there are others. --Sean 13:50, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Walking a mile in these (formal) shoes

I've been looking about for (mens) work/smart casual shoes recently & I've seen some really nice designer pairs, only they all have really thin smooth soles with no tread or grip, or just a tiny amount of grip. None of them look like you could walk a few miles in them regularly without them falling apart. Now these are £90 odd shoes, and for that money I'd expect shoes that'd last, are they really that fragile? Is there a general range as to how much walking (pavements) you can do in this type of shoes before they give out? as I regularly walk to & from work & walk home after a night out. I figure at most 5 miles a day. If such shoes do wear out how easy/pricey is it to resole them? AllanHainey (talk) 19:31, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

You used to be able to get stick-on rubber soles to mend outdoor shoes with: I'm not sure if they're still made. However, if you're walking 5 miles a day, I'd seriously suggest you consider doing that amount of walking in proper walking shoes (training shoes). --TammyMoet (talk) 19:33, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

I walk it in work shoes with proper soles with a good amount of tread on them, trainers wouldn't work for my place of employment or for going out. That said the shoes I've got aren't very dressy & I can't see any that are that look like you can walk in them. AllanHainey (talk) 19:46, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

For to-and-from work, a lot of people, male and female, wear proper walking shoes and then change footwear at the office. This is a bit trickier when going out fot the evening, but should extend the wear of your dressier shoes. // BL \\ (talk) 21:15, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

I did consider that, it'd make it a bit more awkward to polish them but I may do that. AllanHainey (talk) 21:43, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

That's my strategy. I keep the dress shoes at the office. There is a shoe-shine guy across the street who polishes them for a very modest fee. Maybe you can find one near you. Marco polo (talk) 02:18, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

FWIW, Allan is probably in the UK (since he quoted cost in £s); unlike in the USA, street-based shoe-shine services have never been common in the UK, in fact I can't remember ever seeing one. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 19:08, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

My experience with ecco brand shoes has been very good. The dress models look good enough for business, and they have replaceable Vibram soles. $200US a pair isn't that bad, considering. Usual disclaimers. PhGustaf (talk) 03:11, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

With "designer" shoes (or any other such items of clothing) you're paying money mostly for the kudos of wearing a "fashionable" item, rather than necessarily for genuine high quality and robustness. "Dress" shoes are primarily designed to look good in formal (or "swanky") social occasions and possibly to facilitate dancing (hence the smooth soles), not to be hard wearing.

Although I'm primarily an office worker, my last couple of jobs (over 12 years) have involved going into workshops and other areas where safety shoes, with internal toe protectors and chemical-resistant soles, are mandatory wear (in the UK). I've found that such shoes are generally very comfortable, even for walking long distances, and hard wearing. The manufacturers' ranges generally include both slip-ons and lace-ups that look perfectly acceptable in the office and in most formal situations. They're not cheap, but of course if they're required for carrying out one's work duties, one's employer should both supply and pay for them, and many employers will allow you to buy additional pairs through them at the lower-than-retail prices they will have negotiated with the suppliers. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 19:08, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

what things influence you??

im doing a project for school and i need 15 things that influence me. Three of them have to have 3 positives and 3 negitives? you dont have to fiinish it all but has anyone got any ideas? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kaylaf23 (talk • contribs) 23:45, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

On top of not doing your homework for you, how are we supposed to know what influences you? Adam Bishop (talk) 23:50, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

I recommend that you write down everything you can think of that influences you, then try to categorize them as "positives" or "negatives", and then select the subset that seems like it could work for the project. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 23:57, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

If you're stumped by thinking about what "influence" means in this question, it could be something grand or something trivial or something silly: a particular preacher, writer or statesman; a book, film, show, song, TV character, video, poem or cartoon; family, friends, school; some embarrassing moment (for you or someone else) that you're determined never to repeat; the fear or love of something like speed or fire or funny smells. What's changed or reinforced the way you think or feel or behave? If the color red attracts or repels you, was there some reason or association? Your teacher's asking you to write down fifteen because it's hard to pin down any one influence, then you're being asked to pick the three that influenced you most positively and the three that influenced you most negatively. For heaven's sake, don't just take my list and copy it, because it's not a list of influences, it's a list of the kinds of things that influence many people; in your particular case, it's just a blind stab because I know nothing about you. And the things that have influenced you might be of a completely different nature. If after thinking about this, you find that (say) a pet or advertising or a particular commercial has influenced you significantly, put that down instead. —— Shakescene (talk) 00:17, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

The easiest thing to do would just be to pay a little attention as you go through the next day or so. How do you come to decisions? --98.217.14.211 (talk) 00:21, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Based on our only interaction with this person, I'd argue that one of their key influences by that definition is the Wikipedia Reference Desk. ;-) Jwrosenzweig (talk) 01:06, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

September 13

personality psychology

In the personality psychology article it says that one branch of the subject has to do with "Constructing a coherent picture of a person and his or her major psychological processes". I'm interested in this area. Can someone recommend a reading list for this exact subject? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Oniej42 (talk • contribs) 02:27, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Bradberry, Travis. The Personality Code. New York: Putnam, 2007. Also, take a look at everything below Personality psychology#Notes, including References and Further reading Intelligentsium 17:10, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Breaking Kosher rules.

I'm simply curious, but if a Jew doesn't follow the rules of Kosher, what kind of punishment does he or she deserve? I hope this question doesn't seem Anti-Semetic in anyway. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kitefox (talk • contribs) 09:53, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Kosher laws were originally important for survival, e.g. not eating pork because it's too easily contaminated. If you're strict Orthodox Jewish, this is not even a question, it's just something you do. If you're Conservative or especially Reform, the best reason for keeping kosher is "to remind yourself that you're Jewish", as with Catholics eating fish on Friday even though they don't have to anymore. Unless you're in a very strict and isolated community, there's no "punishment" other than maybe being hassled. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 11:21, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Poetic justice demands that they be slapped with a wet pickle. :-) StuRat (talk) 16:17, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

The late pop culinary anthropologist Marvin Harris posited that the Jews, as well as everybody else in the neighborhood, didn't eat pig because it was impractical. Pigs eat the same food humans do, and demand a lot of scarce water. Goats are much better: they change the inedible to the edible. The Kosher rules, to the observant, are a sort of full-time worship. One who breaks them is answerable only to himself. PhGustaf (talk) 16:41, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

All of the rules do indeed make sense in a hot country in an era before refrigeration. Even the seemingly strange ones like it being OK to eat beef - and OK to eat cream - but not OK to mix them in the same meal - comes about because of the way unscrupulous food vendors were attempting to disguise meat that had gone bad. But failing to follow a religious rule would presumably fall under the same kind of rules as being generally sinful - you pay the price with gods wrath in the after-life. Sadly, religious rules don't adapt to changing times. If you believe in that nonsense - then you'd damned well better follow the rules to the letter because hell implies an infinite amount of pain for an infinite duration. If you don't believe in it - then say screw it and enjoy the benefits of modern food quality standards and refrigeration and try a Steak-au-poivre with the full brandy-based cream and green-peppercorn sauce. SteveBaker (talk) 19:01, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Judaism is not so much about God being mad in your afterlife, though. Again, Auslander's book covers quite nicely (and humorously) what the perceived threat is—it is very real and current (he'll strike you down, or strike down your father, or your cow, or whatever). --98.217.14.211 (talk) 19:48, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

For a rather humorous take on what happens when you don't follow Kosher rules, I found Shalom Auslander's Foreskin's Lament: A Memoir hilarious and a rather amusing take on the Orthodox mindset. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 18:22, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

All that one needs to do is take a bath and fire up the washing machine - Leviticus 17:15. "And every soul that eateth that which died of itself, or that which was torn with beasts, whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger, he shall both wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even: then shall he be clean." Tevildo (talk) 19:50, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

That's it. Thanks for the reminder. There are rituals you can go through to "reverse the curse", so to speak, of having violated kosher laws. I recall Buddy Hackett telling some convoluted story about having used the wrong kind of knife to cut some meat, and he had to bury it in his yard as part of a "cleansing" ritual. And naturally a beat-cop came along and was very curious as to why he was burying a bloody knife. How much of his story makes actual sense in reference to kosher, the experts here would have to say. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 20:03, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

And since others have broached the humor side, I must summarize this tale from The Joys of Yiddish: A Jewish man is in a meat shop and inquires as to the price of ham. Suddenly a loud clap of thunder is heard from outside. The man looks toward the heavens and says, "I was only asking!" Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 20:05, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

And there's the story about the rabbi and the priest sitting down with a beer and getting honest with each other. "Ever eaten ham, Rabbi?" "Yeah, I tried it once. Not bad. Ever had sex, father?" "Yup. Beats ham." PhGustaf (talk) 04:03, 14 September 2009 (UTC) (who will be here all week)

Those answers merge in colloquialism, "porked". Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 08:21, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

The rules of kashrut are fascinating to the outsider. A chicken's egg, for example, is pareve, neither meat nor dairy, if its hen laid it. But it's meat if it's extracted from a slaughtered hen, and can't be served with cream sauce because of the ban on cooking things in their mother's milk. PhGustaf (talk) 04:22, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Hens give milk? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 08:23, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

No, but the original law in the Torah says you mustn't cook a kid in it's mother's milk, which has been extrapolated to mean not dairy and meat mixing anywhere. Personally having been a non-observant jew my whole life I just though we went to hell if we broke the laws, though Jews don't technically have hell now do we. It's complex. Prokhorovka (talk) 08:38, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

You don't? DJ Clayworth (talk) 14:28, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Sheol is generally not considered as a place of active punishment like the Christian Hell, it's just boring. Also, one may well have reincarnation to look forward to. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 15:58, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

No Apple Apple Pie?

How does this work? How can apple pie sans apples taste the same as a normal apple pie? Or is the common apple pie more of a cinnamon pie than anything? --antilived^{T | C | G} 10:04, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Apples don't have particularly strong flavour, so I guess most of what you taste in an apple pie is the sugar and cinnamon. It probably only works if you tell people it is apple pie - if you expect to taste apples, you will do. If you just gave it to them and asked them to guess what flavour it was, they might struggle. (I'm guessing, really, I haven't actually tried cooking it - I might do so, though!) --Tango (talk) 15:03, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Also important are the texture, provided by moistened crackers, and the tartness, provided by cream of tartar (although the recipe for mock apple pie I'm familiar with used lemon juice). According to our article (actually just a redirect to apple pie): "A mock apple pie made from crackers was apparently invented by pioneers on the move during the nineteenth century who were bereft of apples. In the 1930s, and for many years afterwards, Ritz Crackers promoted a recipe for mock apple pie using its product, along with sugar and various spices."

The chemistry lesson here is that any flavor is nothing more than a group of chemicals detected by the tongue and nose, and, if you can get those receptors to fire by other means, you will taste those flavors. There's even cases where a stroke will cause people to smell and taste things which aren't there. StuRat (talk) 15:35, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Additionally, there a huge amount regarding taste that is tied to expectations. There have been studies, for example, that show that people actually like beer with balsamic vinegar in it when they don't know that the vinegar has been added (in a blind taste test). When they know, they suddenly hate it. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 18:23, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

About 10 years ago, I tried making the "no apple apple pie" recipie that Ritz crackers were promoting. I agree that it's looks, feels and tastes kinda like apple pie - and it's certainly not horrible. The huge question I've never had answered is "Why?!" - apples are pretty cheap fruit. Crackers are not (pound for pound) as cheap - and you have all of the other ingredients you have to add to complete the 'fake'. So why do these recipies persist? SteveBaker (talk) 18:44, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Back when apples were seasonal it might have been useful (if your barrel of apples go rotten, you'll have to make do without them). These days, it is a novelty, or an experiment in human perception of flavour. --Tango (talk) 19:42, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Beyond that, it seems to me this is a somewhat developed temperate and perhaps subtropical country centric POV. Presuming you actually need an equivalent mass of apples as you need of crackers (I'm not sure about that, the recipe has a lot of sugar, I'm presuming this partially substitutes for some of the sugar from the apples) I'm not convinced crackers will be more expensive in many countries then apples. I asked someone I know living in Malaysia and they suggested a price of about RM6-7 per kg of apples. I think you could relatively easily get crackers of some sort for a lower price then that. These are relatively high quality apples (Gala) so you could potentially get apples for cheaper then that (although I'm told Granny smiths are about the same), maybe even cheaper then crackers. However Malaysia isn't a great example since it's relatively developed with a high degree of imported food available in many areas. It wouldn't surprise me if in less developed tropical countries where imported food is rarer, crackers would be significantly cheaper then apples. Indeed why presuming purchased crackers anyway? You could make the crackers yourself and the ingredients (flour etc) would end up being less. Of course most people in these countries won't be interested in such Western and relatively fancy food like an apple pie but foreigners and immigrants living in these countries may be and while many of these may just choose the apples because it's simpler and more authentic, depending on the price difference and other factors they may choose the fake apple pie. And of course I'm talking modern times. Historically it wouldn't matter what the season was if you were living in countries where apples were not grown. They would still be incredibly expensive and it's easy to image people choosing the fake apple pie. Nil Einne (talk) 12:07, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

This is informative. The recipes I'd always seen had used saltine crackers rather than Ritz crackers, but a Google search comes up with a lot of recipes using Ritz crackers. There are also "mock apple pie" (as this recipe is called) recipes using zucchini. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 20:35, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

People skills

I enjoy talking, and I often enjoy talking about difficult topics, but I have been told in the past that I talk down on people, though I don't wish to do so, and nothing would make me happier than to be able to talk to all different sorts of people openly an at the same level. I'm not really sure specifically how it is that I "talk down" on other people; I often find myself holding my tongue because it is obvious that a person holds a very different belief than I do, and they don't really want to hear otherwise. I won't actually agree with them, but I'll nod and attempt to guide the conversation away from that point by asking questions or something like that. People rarely ever ask me for my opinion, but when they do, I just tell them the truth. In general I try to ask about the person I'm talking to as much as possible, instead of talking about myself, but I'm beginning to think that I may be thinking too much, although that doesn't seem to help at all.

Anyway, I know people, and hear about people, who are easy to talk to "on the same level", and "accept people for who they are", but I'm not really sure what I could be doing differently to be removed from the "smart-ass" category. Does anybody have any ideas? Thanks. Also, does this post sound condescending? lol 210.254.117.186 (talk) 10:41, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Start by reading How to Win Friends and Influence People, by Dale Carnegie. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 11:18, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

One thing which can cause the know-it-all perception is if you use bigger words than are necessary. Words like "condescending" may be a bit much for some to understand (I always visualize a painting of a convicted criminal: "Con descending a staircase", :-) ).

It's important to gauge your audience and select the words you use to suit their level. Or, to maximize your vocabulary utilization in accordance with the linguistic proficiency you've assessed. :-) Either using overly complex or overly simplistic words for a given listener may make them feel uncomfortable. StuRat (talk) 16:10, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

In one word - Listen. As a suggested goal, I would suggest trying to change your opening statement from "I enjoy talking" to "I enjoy having conversations". I've been through this myself. :) Tevildo (talk) 16:13, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

You could talk exclusively to people who enjoy talking, aren't sensitive about being condescended to, and are confident they can outwit you. 81.131.49.190 (talk) 16:57, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Reticence is a good quality. In my opinion, it is better to make progress in your own thinking, than to bring people along with you, so to speak. You will have something better to offer them at a later time. Condescension may be a necessity, or unavoidable. The more important thing is to have something worth being condescending about. Developing that I think should be a higher priority than worrying over whether you are offending someone with condescension or not. As long as you are concerned with not making people feel inferior (and you have already expressed that concern in your above post) then I wouldn't worry about it, because your concern will somehow be conveyed — in your words, in your demeanor, in your body language, in myriad and sundry undefinable things that make you the individual you are. Bus stop (talk) 17:16, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

One thing I noticed - People rarely ever ask me for my opinion, but when they do, I just tell them the truth. Be very wary of believing your opinions necessarily represent "the truth". If that's where you've been coming from, it may have a lot to do with why people think you're talking down to them. -- JackofOz (talk) 20:39, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

I interpret the turn of phase, that "I just tell them the truth" to mean that "I just give them my honest response." I don't think the original questioner was implying any kind of absolute truth. Bus stop (talk) 22:22, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

(To the OP) Your post does not sound condescending. It sounds uncomfortable and that makes listeners feel the same. Don't open your mouth unless you value what you have to tell more than what you think someone else may be thinking of you. Then enjoy sharing what you have and you will soon have them smiling. See me:  :-) Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:10, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

I have some points here, which will largely echo what others have already said:

• Firstly, the fact that you enjoy talking means nothing! To have a good conversation, the primary skill you need to develop is listening. That doesn't mean waiting patiently for the other person to stop talking so you can say whatever you've already decided to say - it means actually hearing and understanding their own POV. Skill in conversation means responding to the other person, rather than just continuing with your own theme.
• On "talking to people on their own level", again the issue is proper hearing. If they are the type of people who swear a lot, then you can swear too. If they are the Queen regnant, better then to speak formally. If it's a taxi-driver, talk about taxi-driving as the first option. But if you talk about politics, keep in mind that you are talking to someone who views politics from the perspective of a taxi-driver. The key here is to adjust to the views of whatever person is occupying whatever "rank" that society assigns them, and remember they are all fully-formed human beings. Talk to people on the level they are talking from.
• In general face-to-face conversation, try to observe body language. Watch people's faces and the way they are standing, you can see immediately the impact of your words. If their face becomes more still or they turn away, they are likely displeased with what you just said - so you have a chance to minimize or erase the damage. If they look upwards or downwards, they are likely thinking about what you just said, so give them some space and LISTEN to their next response. If they reply and at the same time raise their hand to their face, there is a good possibility that their reply is a lie. The main thing to watch out for is when your words cause discomfort to the other party. Unless you are an interrogator or have an internal need to always win, that is the sign to back off.
• The main key is not just to ask the person about themselves or their views, rather it's to listen to their response and gradually explore their persona or their views. So rather than just ask someone new "what do you work at?" then after they answer go on to say what you work at, instead find a way to respond "that sounds like a tough job, you would have to do <something-I-hate-to-do>" or "I've always wondered how you do <xx>" or "are you busy right now?". As you noted, asking people to tell you their "story" is golden - but you need to sit back and listen, which does get in the way of talking. ;)
• And when you hear contrary views, I'd recommend that rather than trying to redirect the talk you make a better attempt at understanding the other person's viewpoint. Once you understand where they are coming from, you may be able to gently nudge them away from where they stand. Of course if you arrive at direct opposition in a conversation, changing the subject is a good option, but what's wrong with politely exploring someone else's state-of-knowledge? Who knows, you might actually learn something!
• And finally, having superior knowledge or better-formed opinions does not ever mean that you must inform other people of your extra-goodness. People in general won't change their attitudes in any given five minutes. They will though respond to your interest in their views and may change their own way of looking at things if you take enough time and actually care about the other person.

Spoken as someone who's "been there done that" and made the journey from "people say you're too arrogant" to "you're so charming" and "not you, everyone loves you" and "you're so easy to talk to" - seek knowledge always, but seek wisdom first - and care about the people you talk to.

And do speak truth. In some situations you can avoid doing so, as long as you never lie. But if it's your friends, just lay out how you see it. Better yet - don't ever say it's the "truth", just say it's your opinion They will appreciate it in the long run. Franamax (talk) 00:01, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Possibly the longest post I've ever made on Wikipedia, and entirely unsourced to boot! :( Franamax (talk) 00:01, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Hasty disclaimer. Not all residents of this planet share in the glowing reviews I've reported above about my own wonderfulness. In fact, I can only cite three RL people, and I could easily come up with a more detailed sample of others who've expresed the opposite opinion. 'Struth, there is a difficulty when one writes only from the heart! Franamax (talk) 00:10, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm a bit slow. What was the first sentence of your first point again? Cuddlyable3 (talk) 19:21, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

If you think part of the problem is that you are intelligent, and you need to find more intelligent people to talk to, consider joining Mensa. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:25, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Without wanting to sound bitchy, consider that Mensa members are self-selected from people to whom the fact that they (think they) are more intelligent than others is very important to them. My own contacts with Mensa members (and your mileage may differ) suggests that a high proportion of them are significantly socially awkward, which is not a good environment in which to work on improving one's own social suavity. Consider instead social groupings which tend to attract intelligent people without that being their primary raison d'être. I used to be acquainted with a former President of the British branch of Mensa (terminology not necessarily accurate, name intentionally withheld), who said that he had left Mensa to become more involved in Science Fiction Fandom because the level of conversation in the latter was superior. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 15:47, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Baseball Bugs mentioned How to Win Friends and Influence People and I agree it's a good book for this kind of thing. Some ideas in that book that seem specific to your own problem is to be genuinely interested in other people, their lives and what is important to them and to talk to them about those things. It is not so much "holding your tongue" as much as steering the conversation to areas where you do see eye to eye, or at least where you are interested in their take on it. It is great if you can find something that you both do and are both interested in, but don't give advice on the matter unless they ask for it, and ask them for advice on the matter, even if it's just to get a second opinion. Pay them respect (usually through compliments) for things you genuinely respect them for, whether it's how they dress or how they play a sport. Don't just say nice things you don't mean, and don't get sucked into areas of conversation where you think there'll be conflict (although even people with diametrically opposed opinions can have good, respectful conversations and, in the right circumstances, become good friends). A chapter in the book says you should recognise that everyone you meet is superior to you in some way, and I think it's pretty much always true. If you can identify the way in which the other person is better than you, that topic is a good one for conversation, because you honestly value their ability or position on some matter (since you identify it as being better than your own) and they are in a position of importance in the conversation. TastyCakes (talk) 16:20, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

registry of certified ISO auditors

I am trying to find out if there is a registry of certified ISO auditors. There is an international governing body for ISO standards, but is there a complete list of people who are certified to perform ISO audits, and what they are exactly certified to audit? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jjdenny (talk • contribs) 17:31, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm willing to take a shot at the last part of your question: they are probably certified to audit whether an entity, organisation, process, or commodity, should it currently or in the future want to be ISO-compliant, is compliant with what a particular ISO standard says. And ISO has many, many standards, really. So, an auditor comes to wherever with a list of features of a particular standard, and checks whether your manufacturing plant, manufacturing process or management structure is compliant with this or that particular standard. If he ticks enough 'yes'-boxes on his sheet, you probably get a certificate or something. Just a guess though. --Ouro (blah blah) 18:42, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Ah, welcome to the biggest scam ever cooked up to separate businesses from their money! </rant> Assuming you mean the ISO 9001 quality certification, I made a Google search for "canada list of iso 9001 auditors" and came up with these links: [27] and an old one [28]. You will need to search by country. I can find one list, run by the IRCA, their site is here - but they probably charge people money to be listed there! :( Can't find any ISO-certified global list of registrars just yet. Franamax (talk) 20:55, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't think there would be an ISO certified list. As the article you linked to says:

ISO does not itself certify organizations. Many countries have formed accreditation bodies to authorize certification bodies, which audit organizations applying for ISO 9001 compliance certification. Although commonly referred to as ISO 9000:2000 certification, the actual standardr to which an organization's quality management can be certified is ISO 9001:2000. Both the accreditation bodies and the certification bodies charge fees for their services. The various accreditation bodies have mutual agreements with each other to ensue that certificates issued by one of the Accredited Certification Bodies (CB) are accepted worldwide.

Nil Einne (talk) 21:17, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

This is indeed a pesky topic. Here is the ISO talking about certification bodies. They mostly waffle around, but eventually point to the International Accreditation Forum (boy, we really do have an article on everything!) website. That too looks like a "gotta pay to be listed" site, but I'd suggest you look up your country of interest (IAF Members from the left-side menu, Accreditation Body Members, View list by:Economy), then email the listed contact and ask them for a list of certified registrars in your country. Or email someone at one of the other lists I linked above. Remember that the actual external auditors/registrars are all competing with each other, so don't just take the word of the first person you talk to who says "no, we're the only ones".

Alternatively, find a few companies in your area who got the ISO 9000/14000 certification and ask them how they did it and what their experience was. And settle in for a three-year voyage, it's not going to be pretty. Good luck with it though! Franamax (talk) 21:32, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Eschange student

I have a friend in Russia, who I want to invite over San Diego, Ca for about a semester. If he is going to spend that semester studying in a local college, that makes him an exchange student. Is there some program for exchange students that would let me cut the costs? Because college fees can add up pretty high. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.8.170.157 (talk) 19:32, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

I suggest you talk to that local college, they will know what funding is available. --Tango (talk) 19:52, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

There is also a Russian consulate in San Francisco [29], which you could contact. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 20:17, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

From my tax-preparing days earlier this decade, I seem to remember, perhaps wrongly, that the U.S. Internal Revenue Code did have a tax break for hosting exchange students, although the rules were rather strict and you (or the student) might not qualify. Visit http://www.irs.gov and check the likely-looking publications. —— Shakescene (talk) 04:34, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

From personal experience, I don't think inviting your Russian friend in that way will actually make him an exchange student. It will make him a foreign student, guest student or something like that depending on the local terminology. For someone to be considered an exchange student they need to be part of an exchange program between colleges, universities, states or some other entities. The reason that this matters is that there is usually far more options for exchange students to pick and choose from courses at various levels of the host university (since the exchange program implies a trust in the education already obtained at the home university). Guest students, on the other hand, can usually only apply for certain entry level courses, and those at higher levels that the various departments consider reasonable to attend even if the content of their prerequisites hasn't actually been studied. That is, if your friend visits you and applies to college without being part of a program, his choices - and chance of even being accepted to the college - might be very limited. You are advised to investigate how the prospective college handles these issues, or I fear there might be disappointment. / User:Coffeeshivers (not at home) —Preceding signed comment added by 88.131.68.194 (talk) 06:31, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

You should also look into the kind of visa your friend will need for studying, rather than simply coming to visit you. DJ Clayworth (talk) 14:24, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

In Movies: Transportations of the Future

Can someone provide me with some movies that depict future means of transportation? For example, iRobot. Thanks. Acceptable (talk) 19:45, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

The movie called Minority Report speculates that cars would essentially be on some kind of electromagnetic tracks, and could travel at high rates of speed, and also straight up and straight down, if I remember correctly. That's not a new idea, it's been around for decades, but that film puts the idea out there in stylish fashion. But most any sci-fi film about the future will speculate on future means of transportation - the matter transporter in Star Trek, for example, which is a slightly more refined version of the exact same idea presented in the 1950s scare-flick called The Fly. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 19:58, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

As Bugs says, most SF films have some concept of advanced transportation, but they use them mostly as a secondary plot device. The Stargate franchise is built around the notion of using wormholes to flit about the galaxy, and Star Trek in addition to using those cool transporters relied on "warp drive" engines. As far as terrestrial transport, I'm at a loss. I think Blade Runner had some cool transport devices, but I'd have to watch it again to be sure. Straying outside of movies alone, Robert Heinlein had the concept of massive "rampways" stretching across the USA where each consecutive "way" ran faster than the next, so you could step farther into the centre to get on a faster ramp. Can't remember the exact book though. Another example would be the incomparable The Stars My Destination, which luckily hasn't been ruined yet by a movie version. The concept there was to "jaunt" by just thinking well about where you wanted to be, which of course totally changed every aspect of human society. Oh Gully Foyle, I hope you're never brought to film! :) So basically, I got nuthin' good about terrestrial advances in transport shown on film. :( Franamax (talk) 20:23, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Not a movie, but one of the greatest SF short stories of all time, "Repent, Harlequin!" Said the Ticktockman, discusses slidewalks and air cars. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 20:40, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

BTW, the Heinlein story Franamax is thinking of is The Roads Must Roll. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 20:41, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Thx Who then, found it and reading now. I especially like the "You know how women are" and "Calm her down" bits near the end. :) That and the "union power" and "indomitable engineer" themes - Heinlein certainly had a thought-provoking view of the world! Franamax (talk) 22:51, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Back to the Future Part II had flying cars and levitating skateboards. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 21:23, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Many movies (and other things) have been speculating on flying car (fiction) (unsupported/not on rails) for a long time. Going by some of the early ones, we should already have them or be very close. There's however very limited progress on that front. I know I'm not the only one to think this [30] [31] indeed I've noticed it's even mentioned in the article Nil Einne (talk) 21:54, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Let's hope it stays that way. The way people drive, can you imagine what it would be like with hundreds of personal autogyros buzzing around the city? Yikes! Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 01:01, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

We don't have to, because Bob Shaw has done it for us in his excellently thought-through novel Vertigo (aka Terminal Velocity). 87.81.230.195 (talk) 15:34, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

The detective in Alphaville apparently achieves interplanetary travel in a Ford Galaxie although the destination planet resembles 1960s Paris. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:01, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Always start with Metropolis. All that follows is pale imitation. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:53, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Metropolis? You mean that shameless derivative of A Trip to the Moon? -Elmer Clark (talk) 03:29, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

The Heinlein short story is "The Roads Must Roll" (1940); slidewalks also appeared in Asimov's the Caves of Steel (1954). The flying car in Blade Runner is the a spinner. Galaxy Quest used a gelatinous pod to travel through a wormhole. Star Wars gave us snow speeders, speeder bikes and pod racers. Clarke gave us the space elevator. Genesis II showed us intercontinental subshuttles. Gerry Anderson gave us the Cloudbase airborne aircraft carrier and other cool vehicles. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 00:27, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

If we're talking Gerry Anderson - we shouldn't forget the 'SPV' (Spectrum Pursuit Vehicle) which was driven from a rear-facing seat (using TV monitors to get you a forward-looking view) in order to provide better protection in the event of a head-on crash! SteveBaker (talk) 17:34, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Spectrum Pursuit Vehicle ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 17:50, 14 September 2009 (UTC)I fixed your link and hope you don't mind.Cuddlyable3 (talk) 19:09, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Here's what I want to drive along from an old Meccano magazine [32] ;) Dmcq (talk) 08:14, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

The South Park guys must have ripped that for "The Entity". ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 17:55, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

The Fifth Element has great flying cars and some nifty spaceships..hotclaws 13:21, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

I should not be surprised that we have Category:Transportation in fiction. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 17:50, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

For the best in transportation, you need only look so far as Spaceballs and the spacefaring Winnebago. Dismas|^(talk) 18:43, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

September 14

Bat infestation

we have a guava tree in our backyard which is often attacked by bats for its fruits,the problem is that theses bats mess up our wells too. How do we stop this ?( We are also not able to use those fruits either) sumal (talk) 03:06, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

How about hanging mousetraps? DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 03:43, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

In the Philippines I observed local farmers protecting hanging fruit by wrapping each unit in a burlap sack. You might try something similar. I'm not sure if plastic bags would work or not - being airtight might be bad for the development of the fruit. Protect all (or most) of the fruit and the bat food supply is gone. No bat food supply, no more bats. Personally though, bats are awesome. Hard to imagine them fouling a well?!?218.25.32.210 (talk) 05:03, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

The bats are not attacking your tree they are seeking a legitimate supply of food that you are providing. If you are going to grow bat-food then you need to protect it and not harm the bats. Nets, burlap, or other protective measures are available to you. Have you thought of covering your wells with something to prevent the bat excrement from falling in. 86.4.181.14 (talk) 06:23, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

On a related note, please don't harm the bats; they eat cockroaches and other pests!--Leon (talk) 08:43, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

I doubt if the same species eats both fruit and insects. StuRat (talk) 12:13, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Bats are a varied group of animals ranging from the small bats that eat moths and mosquitos which are common in the US, to giant raven sized fruit bats in SE Asia and Australia. I suspect that the OP might be having difficulty with the latter. Googlemeister (talk) 14:42, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

The actual problem is pollution of the OP's well. It is unclear how bats are messing wells but that may have more to do with them living in caves associated with the ground water supply than attraction to a particular fruit tree. The OP is in India where access to fresh water is not universal. Solving that problem may be more than Wikipedia can do. The article Water resources describes the situation. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 18:45, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

I have no expertise on this but have been studying gardening for some time (although in my part of the world we don't have fruit bats). There are two main ways to keep the bats from eating the fruit. 1) Wrap the tree with a covering that keeps the bats out but that allows sunshine, air, and water to get through. The best solution is probably wire mesh, though this could be expensive. On the other hand, it should last for several years. A burlap mesh might be another solution, but I suspect that the bats cold chew through burlap and that it would not last more than one year, especially after a monsoon. 2) Apply chemicals to the tree or keep containers of chemicals around the tree that are not harmful to people but that deter bats. This article suggests that ethanol might work. You could try other chemicals that have a rotten smell. It is probably best to combine this with a wire mesh or other enclosure for the tree to prevent the bats from putting up with the smell, trying a bit of fruit, and learning that the fruit is good despite the smell. As for the well, you need to have it cleaned. There must be people in your area who clean wells. The next step is to cover it so that bats cannot enter it. A hard metal or stone covering would probably be best. Remove the covering only when you want to collect water. If your well is actually a cistern that collects rainfall, then you need a strong metal grate or screen that lets water in but whose openings are too small for bats to pass through. Marco polo (talk) 19:55, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

One more thought on this. After you have the well cleaned and cover the opening to keep bats out, I would recommend that you avoid using the water for drinking for at least a few months. However, I would draw water from the well during that time and use it for cleaning or for watering plants. Drawing water from the well and letting it refill with clean groundwater will help to improve the water quality over a period of months. I recommend having the water tested in a laboratory before you use it for drinking. Even then, you may need to boil it or use solar water disinfection first. Marco polo (talk) 20:04, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

MDF and hardboard

What are the essential differences between MDF and hardboard. I mean is hardboard safer to work with?--79.75.88.222 (talk) 16:05, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

The articles do a decent job of explaining the difference. I'm not sure what 'safer' would be? It will depend on what you are using the wood for as to whether it needs to be a 'medium' (MDF) density or a high (Hardboard) density. ny156uk (talk) 16:39, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Neither are safer, but MDF is generally more visually appealing in situations where the side of the board may show. Additionally, it is more common to find a variety of finishes and veneers on MDF. Depending on your local market, there may be a price consideration when deciding between the twoCaltsar (talk) 16:45, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

well the MDF page mentions hazards from the glue used. The hardboard page does not mention hazards from glue or dust. Should it?--79.75.88.222 (talk) 17:25, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Its ok. just seen that no glue is used in hb, maybe only a bit of resin So its safer IMO--79.75.88.222 (talk) 17:29, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

I suppose that there could be hazards from working with MDF, but those hazards don't seem to have much, if any, solid proof behind them. (The woodshop I worked for used polyurethane MDF which doesn't have formeldahyde in it) On the other hand, many other materials and chemicals used in wood working can be quite hazardous. Many solvents used in finishing sprays are present in much higher concentrations and many small wood shops don't have the room (or money) for a large, properly designed spray booth to contain those chemicals. Also, there are some natural hardwoods that have known health hazards when cut, sanded, or otherwise used in a way that creates large amounts of dust. When referring to the safety of the material, I was implying that the psysical properties of the material didn't cause it to be more or less safe when cutting, sanding, or working with the material as psysical injury is the most common method of harm in a woodshop.Caltsar (talk) 18:15, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Bending hardboard

I have an application where I need to make hardboard cylinders. What is the bast way to form the hb into a cylinder. Do I need to wet it?--79.75.88.222 (talk) 17:57, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

I believe that hardboard becomes more pliable when it is heated in a steam oven and that it will keep its bend when it cools. The water in the oven keeps the temperature from rising high enough to burn the hardboard. I would not advise soaking the hardboard first because that will slow down the heat penetration. I can't quantify to how small a radius you can bend how thick a board this way, so that needs experiment. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 18:30, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

There are books devoted to wood bending, and your library may have one. Bending wood into a cylinder can be very hard to do, and certain woods and composites can only bend to a certain radius. Some woods can be bent over a form using clamps and time while others need to use steam and pressure. I don't really work with hardboard at all outside of pegboard, so I do not know how much it can be bent.Caltsar (talk) 18:51, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Tracing vehicle ownership in Northern Cyprus

How do I find the owner of a vehicle in Northern Cyprus by it's registration plate. Thx —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pepapooh (talk • contribs) 18:59, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

You could contact the Northern Cyprus Ministry of Public Works and Communications, listed here, though you might need to be able to communicate in Turkish. Marco polo (talk) 19:38, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Ella Cullom

i am doing a family tree, however my great grandmother Ella Cullom(married name in 1910 US census) was raped at an early age(abt 14yrs old)That produced my grandmother Lilly Cullom, in Tenn. Ella, was born abt 1871, i think in Tenn., her mothers name was Sarah the family told me that the guy that raped my great grandmother my have been a doctor that she may have been working for.I am at a lost for trying to find supporting info. Can you offer any help? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.190.195.101 (talk) 20:40, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

I am new at this I forgot to include my email for an answer about my gradmother lilly cullom and greatgrandmother ella cullom, her mother sarah. email add. [email address removed] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.190.195.101 (talk) 20:42, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

I've removed your email address, per the guidelines at the top of this page. People will respond on this page if they have any information. — Matt Eason ^{(Talk &#149; Contribs)} 22:47, 14 September 2009 (UTC)