View source for User talk:Dondervogel 2

Hello, Dondervogel 2, and Taylor Lautner. Follow @oreopandada on Instagram!!!!! [[Wikipedia:Introduction|welcome]] to Wikipedia! Thank you for [[Special:Contributions/Dondervogel 2|your contributions]]. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:
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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a [[Wikipedia:Wikipedians|Wikipedian]]! Please [[Wikipedia:Signatures|sign]] your messages on [[Wikipedia:talk page|discussion page]]s using four [[tilde]]s (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out [[Wikipedia:Questions]], ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place <code><nowiki>{{helpme}}</nowiki></code> before the question. Again, welcome! <!-- Template:Welcome --> Hey there [[User:Tommy2010|<b style="color:black;">Tommy</b>]][[User talk:Tommy2010|<sup>2010</sup>]] 18:25, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

No problem. If you'd like help, feel free to send a message --[[User:Tommy2010|<b style="color:black;">Tommy</b>]][[User talk:Tommy2010|<sup>2010</sup>]] 18:28, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Hello, I'm [[User:87.220.219.189|87.220.219.189]]. I wanted to let you know that I undid one or more of [[Special:Contributions/Dondervogel 2|your recent contributions]] because it did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use the [[WP:sandbox|sandbox]]. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on [[User_talk:87.220.219.189|my talk page]]. Thanks!<!-- Template:uw-vandalism1 -->  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned"> — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment added 13:05, 2 October 2014 (UTC)</span><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


{{tb|Tommy2010}}

== two things ==

Thanks for [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Dondervogel_2&diff=prev&oldid=361314820 tidying this up]. Only so you know, there would have been nothing untowards about leaving in the bit about how you came up with the new user name.

You are welcome to write a few straightforward paragraphs about powers of 1024 prefixes on your user page. Your outlook on this topic has not been the worry but rather, how you've tried to wedge your outlook into how the prefixes are handled on en.WP. The time may come to use them here. When it does, it'll likely happen fairly quickly and easily. [[User:Gwen Gale|Gwen Gale]] ([[User talk:Gwen Gale|talk]]) 08:55, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

== Reference articles ==

Thank you for your offer to help, which I gladly accept.  Could you provide references to the papers by Horton and more recent publications you have in mind that can be used as references for criticism of the sloppy conventions around the decibel? You can put them on [[User talk:Boute/Decibel draft]] or on [[Talk:Decibel]] to keep decibel-related material together.  [[User:Boute|Boute]] ([[User talk:Boute|talk]]) 09:17, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

I tried to find the original 1924 and 1929 papers by Martin by Googling BSTJ and discovered the complete BSTJ collection on the [http://www.alcatel-lucent.com/bstj/ Alcatel-Lucent BSTJ site].  A real treasure trove! [[User:Boute|Boute]] ([[User talk:Boute|talk]]) 14:24, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

== Revision history of Timeline of binary prefixes ==

Could you be a bit more specific about what statements you want references for? I.e that certain machines were decimal vs binary? What I added summarizes a lot of the info in the timeline itself and is referenced there.--[[User:ArnoldReinhold|agr]] ([[User talk:ArnoldReinhold|talk]]) 18:41, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
: Mostly what I meant was a reference for which computers use decimal storage and which ones binary; the reason for placing the tag at the end of the paragraph was to also include stated usage of '8K' and '65K'.  If these are all covered by existing cites later in the article, then feel free to remove the tag. [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 10:51, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

== Rational for Binary Prefixes ==
How about adding something like the following to the T2 list of why not to deprecate:
{{quote| The computer itself does not account for the number of bytes using binary prefixes, but someone in the 1980s decided to report memory, file and HDD size in this manner. As such, the use of Binary Prefixes is only a convention. Altering this convention to agree with SI Prefixes could have been done at any time as Apple did in 2009; however, for some reason it just stuck this way for much of the computer industry.<br/>
|sign= [http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_7-10330509-263.html Snow Leopard changes how file and drive sizes are calculated]
}}
[[User:Tom94022|Tom94022]] ([[User talk:Tom94022|talk]]) 00:01, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
: You know more about the history than I do, so feel free to add this to the list if you feel it's important. I think the case against deprecation is overwhelming, but what the heck. [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 09:37, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

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== [[:IEC 80000-6]] ==

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== [[Knot (unit)]] ==

Please see [[Talk:Knot_%28unit%29#ISO_status]]. . . <strong>Jim</strong> - [[User:Jameslwoodward|Jameslwoodward]] ([[User talk:Jameslwoodward|talk to me]] • [[Special:Contributions/Jameslwoodward|contribs]])  16:06, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
: Thanks. I have replied there. [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 17:04, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

== General principles in WP:MOSNUM ==

Hi Dondervogel2

Here are some quotes that may be of interest to you:

The first two paragraphs of WP:MOSNUM:

<blockquote>This part of the Manual of Style helps editors to achieve consistency in the use and formatting of numbers, dates, times, measurements, currencies, and coordinates in Wikipedia articles. Consistency in style and formatting promotes clarity and cohesion; this is especially important within an article. The goal is to make the whole encyclopedia easier and more intuitive to use. Try to write so the text cannot be misunderstood, and take account of what is likely to be familiar to readers—the less they have to look up definitions, the easier it is to be understood.
Where this manual provides options, consistency should be maintained within an article unless there is a good reason to do otherwise. In direct quotations, the original text should be preserved. The Arbitration Committee has ruled that editors should not change an article from one guideline-defined style to another without a substantial reason unrelated to mere choice of style, and that revert-warring over optional styles is unacceptable.[1] If discussion cannot determine which style to use in an article, defer to the style used by the first major contributor.</blockquote>

Here is the opening paragraph of Unit Conversions:
<blockquote>Where English-speaking countries use different units for the same quantity, follow the "primary" quantity with a conversion in parentheses. This enables more readers to understand the quantity. Examples: the Mississippi River is 2,320 miles (3,734 km) long; the Murray River is 2,375 kilometres (1,476 mi) long.
</blockquote>

Other principles are scattered through the text such as advice on conversion errors. 

I hope that helps:

Best wishes,
[[User:Michael Glass|Michael Glass]] ([[User talk:Michael Glass|talk]]) 12:58, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
: Thank you for taking the troubling of quoting this text from mosnum.  What I meant was something more specific about units. I am suggesting it would be useful to precede the section entitled "Units" with some guiding principles about the choice of units, transcending the disccussion of "which units system?. For example
:* Units are familiar and unambiguous
:* If an article begins in one unit (eg yard) it does not switch to another (eg metre) half-way through
:* If a unit is defined as one quantity (eg decade meaning ten years) it does not switch to another meaninf (eg decade meaning factor 10 in frequency) half-way through
: [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 13:58, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea in principle. However, I think we also need to look at the general structure of the whole section on which unit to use. I would need to flesh it out myself, but I think we need to begin with general principles and then work towards specific examples. At the moment the section tends to chop and change, and this causes duplications, and some confusion. An example of duplication is the advice to use miles on roads in the section on UK engineering articles, which largely duplicates the advice on using miles in the general section on UK articles, though arguably with a different, stricter, emphasis.

:The structure, with its emphasis on the exceptions rather than the general rule, means that UK engineering articles have their own subheading while 'all other articles' which includes a far larger array of articles, is simply a dot point.

:In short, I think there's a lot of work to be done to make the structure of the section more logical and consistent. However, I think that there is a heading waiting for your proposed addition: Which unit to use. [[User:Michael Glass|Michael Glass]] ([[User talk:Michael Glass|talk]]) 10:50, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

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== Citation format ==
I noticed you removed a citation without explanation and inserted a bare URL in [[:Kilobyte]].  Since you didn't explain this in the edit summary or on the talk page, I have reverted your edits because they don't seem to be an improvement.  Please see [[WP:CITE]] for citation guidelines, and please, always provide an [[WP:EDITSUMMARY]] so other editors can understand what you are doing and why.  Thanks.  —[[user:EncMstr|EncMstr]] ([[user talk:EncMstr|talk]]) 17:27, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
: I was not aware of removing a citation.  Which one did I remove? [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 20:58, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
:: Hmmmm, I don't see the removal I thought I saw earlier.  Perhaps it was because I just woke up then and was undoing a lot of vandalism before that.  However, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kilobyte&diff=584114012&oldid=584113200 this edit you made] inserts a bare URL and I reverted that along with [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kilobyte&diff=584113200&oldid=584083697 your previous edit] explaining my revert of both as ''Unexplained removal of citations and insertion of non-preferred format.''
::I guess never mind the removal. Sorry.  —[[user:EncMstr|EncMstr]] ([[user talk:EncMstr|talk]]) 00:43, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

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== Ways to improve ANSI S1.1-1994 ==

Hi, I'm Ironholds. Dondervogel 2, thanks for creating [[ANSI S1.1-1994]]!

I've just tagged the page, using our [[Wikipedia:Page Curation/Help|page curation]] tools, as having some issues to fix. Please add references to articles you create.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on [[User talk:Ironholds|my talk page]]. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at [[WP:TEAHOUSE|the Teahouse]]. [[User:Ironholds|Ironholds]] ([[User talk:Ironholds|talk]]) 04:52, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

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== [[Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Dates_and_numbers#Kilowatt-hour]] ==

I'm contacting everyone who has commented but who hasn't taken an explicit ''Support'' or ''Oppose'' position (or if you did, I missed it). In the interest of bringing this discussion to resolution, it might be helpful if you could do that. Thanks. [[User:EEng|EEng]] ([[User talk:EEng|talk]]) 12:58, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
: My initial position was to oppose because I thought it would contradict the [[International System of Quantities]] (ISQ).  My position now is neutral.  Rather than this very explicit rule for the kWh, why not replace it with the ISQ rule, with this as an example?  That is something I would support. [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 13:43, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
::I would support that too, though I think it would need to say something like "Where such usage is seen in sources treating the topic area of the article, and where there is no risk of ambiguity, spaces between multiplied units may be omitted." However, I think that would take a much wider discussion, especially since there isn't any issue right now for anything other than kWh, so it would seem like a rule to solve a problem which isn't yet a problem; we're having the kWh discussion because kWh, specifically, has become an issue. [[User:EEng|EEng]] ([[User talk:EEng|talk]]) 15:07, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
::: Just because the problem hasn't been mentioned doesn't mean it's not there.  Examples are [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=Nm+torque&title=Special%3ASearch&go=Go nm vs Nm (or N m) for torque], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&search=Ah+charge&fulltext=Search ah vs Ah for electric charge], and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=Ns+impulse&title=Special%3ASearch&go=Go ns vs Ns (or N s) for impulse], but there must be others.  [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 15:40, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

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== Harmonisation ==

Really, you do not need to pursue this with me. Your comments have implied that unless WP settles on a single unit symbol to use, then the articles will not be in harmony, with each other, or with supposed standards. And that indeed is what the discussions have been about. To me, you seem a little put out that I am challenging that assumption and your use of the word "harmonization" to describe it (since the word itself implies more). I am perfectly able to see what the thrust of the discussion is about, but I am also perfectly able to see the way words can be taken to multiple things at one time. I don't really have a way to see your intent, but your words are capable of multiple interpretation, and I'll feel free to deal with that in the way I think most appropriate. And most appropriately of all, I will continue to assume your good faith, which I have not doubted even when I take issue with your words. Please be aware that I am not attempting to be testy with you. I just have a different point of view. I hope that is not an issue in itself. You have seemed (to me) to be disappointed in the reception you have already received, in a greater measure than I think is called for. I don't think it's that others don't understand what you're saying either. It's clear enough to get through. May you be a peace with whatever outcome is there; I assure you that I will be. [[User:Evensteven|Evensteven]] ([[User talk:Evensteven|talk]]) 15:56, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
:Dondervogel 2, I agree with everything that Evensteven said, and I have similar feelings. However, I would have appreciated a note in the active discussions when you actually brought the issue to [[WT:MOSNUM]] to let involved editors know. Though bringing this to MOSNUM was certainly a sensible thing to do, actually bringing it up there after indicating that you were done with the discussion at [[Talk:Astronomical unit]] makes it seem like [[WP:FORUMSHOP]], especially since you've now brought this up in at least four places. And though I agree with your characterization that your view is in the minority, I don't believe there were any editors involved in the discussion who "prefer not to discuss" it. —Alex ([[User:Ashill|ASHill]] &#124; [[User_talk:Ashill|talk]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/Ashill|contribs]]) 16:26, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
:: I am puzzled by both of the above posts.  
::* There is a clear majority against the adoption of a single harmonised unit symbol for [[astronomical unit]].  I do not understand the reason for this reluctance, but I accept it. End of story.
::* As for forum shopping, the discussion started at [[Talk:Voyager 1]] and was moved to [[Talk:Astronomical unit]] on advice of editors there, and that is where it stayed. Some editors (two I believe) expressed an unwillingness to continue the discussion at [[Talk:Astronomical unit]].  That is their prerogative. 
:: [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 21:06, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
:::I didn't notice that the word "here" was a link at [[WT:MOSNUM]] (my browser uses purple for visited links, very similar to the black of ordinary text), so I thought you were asking to continue discussion there. My mistake; I apologize. —Alex ([[User:Ashill|ASHill]] &#124; [[User_talk:Ashill|talk]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/Ashill|contribs]]) 21:13, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
:::: Oh, I see.  Now I understand the confusion.  Apology accepted - I will be more carefully with my choice of words next time. [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 21:30, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

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== Just an idea ==

I see you don't do userboxes (or, indeed, a user page at all). But if you ever do, this is offered for your consideration:

{{User:Jeh/UBX/IECpfx}}

[[User:Jeh|Jeh]] ([[User talk:Jeh|talk]]) 22:49, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

: Thank you. I appreciate the thought. [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 23:25, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

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== FFT ==

""derived" yes, but "known" does not seem justified as Gauss did not publish this work" -- I thought it was published, but it took years until someone found the article. I don't have the reference, though. Whether anyone contemporary read the published copy, I wouldn't know.  [[User:Gah4|Gah4]] ([[User talk:Gah4|talk]]) 16:24, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
: According to an article published by [http://www.cis.rit.edu/class/simg716/Gauss_History_FFT.pdf Heideman et al in 1984], "Gauss' treatise describing the algorithm was not published in his lifetime; it appeared only his collected works [10] as an unpublished manuscript".  The publication date of this Ref. 10 is 1866.  [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 17:22, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
:: [[Cooley–Tukey_FFT_algorithm]] reference 1 seems to indicate that it was published in neo-latin. As I remember the story from years ago, it was the neo-latin that slowed down others finding it. It does say posthumous, but doesn't indicate unpublished. Is a "collected works" a published collection of unpublished papers? I could also wonder why we need two FFT articles. [[User:Gah4|Gah4]] ([[User talk:Gah4|talk]]) 18:13, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
::: Yes, it was published, but not by Gauss and (more importantly) not in 1805, so I stand by my assertion that it was not "known" in 1805.  "Collected works" normally refers to a collection of published papers in one volume, but in this case appears to include at least one unpublished ms.  Even after publication it did not become widely known, and presumably Cooley and Tukey were unaware of it.  I guess the text could be improved further by clarifying when it was finally published, and in what form. [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 21:21, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
:::: OK, I agree. I was thinking the 1800's, and it might be that "known in the early 1800's" would work, but yes, if he wrote it in 1805, and it wasn't published until later, it wouldn't be "known" in 1805.  But we don't know how many people in the early 1800's might have read it, and not told anyone about it.  [[User:Gah4|Gah4]] ([[User talk:Gah4|talk]]) 23:27, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

== [[South American dreadnought race]] ==

Hi Dondervogel, I reverted you at the linked article because those numbers are taken from the references (citations 88 and 89, some of which are available online!). Best, [[User:The ed17|Ed]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:The ed17|[talk]]]&nbsp;[[WP:OMT|[majestic titan]]]</sup> 21:59, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

== Edit war on MOSNUM ==

[[File:Ambox notice.svg|link=|25px|alt=Information icon]] There is currently a discussion at [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents]] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved.   <!--Template:ANI-notice--> Thank you. --[[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 02:37, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

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== Not allowed to modify "Beaufort scale" ==

[[Special:Contributions/58.187.229.174|58.187.229.174]] ([[User talk:58.187.229.174|talk]]) 04:39, 28 March 2016 (UTC) Reliable, sources used in Asian. This is just a reference, not allowed to modify. Okay?

== An interesting use of mixed prefixes ==

The Toshiba [http://toshiba.semicon-storage.com/content/dam/toshiba-ss/asia-pacific/docs/product/storage/spec/Toshiba-SSD-HG6-Series-Brochure-Revision.1.0.6.pdf Solid State Drive HG6 Series data sheet] provieds both MB/sec and MiB/sec for data rate but only GB (decimal meaning) for capacity.  Think maybe we are getting close to revisiting the ban on IEC binary prefixes? [[User:Tom94022|Tom94022]] ([[User talk:Tom94022|talk]]) 18:48, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
: I think that for as long as Microsoft Windows insists on using ambiguous units, the argument that the mebibyte "sounds silly" will prevail.  The moment MS starts using MiB, it will (as if by magic) sound sensible, overnight.  Thanks for the link though.  Interesting. [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 19:06, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

== 10 is a dimensionless quantity ==

In the [[Decibel]] article you reinserted the two letters "dB" right next to the two constants "10" and "20". Can you explain what do you see as the function of "dB"? It is not a variable and it is definitely not the units of the constant "10" and the constant "20".
[[User:Jordsan|Jordsan]] ([[User talk:Jordsan|talk]]) 19:39, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
: "dB" is the symbol for the decibel, which is a unit of level. [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 06:08, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

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== Template to spread the word ==

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== Castilian/Catalan ==

Hi Dondervogel. With regard to [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Catalan_independence_movement&diff=next&oldid=809680841 this], the best I can do is to quote another user on [[Talk:Catalan independence movement#Rewrite of History section|Talk:Catalan independence movement]]: "As far as I know the Crida was born as a response of a joint declaration by 2300 Catalan intellectuals who came out against 'Cultural Inmersion' (the education system being solely in Catalan when a majority of Catalans didn't use it) and making Catalan the sole official language of Catalonia. La Crida was a direct response to this declaration." So the intellectuals were claiming discrimination against the ''Castilian'', not the ''Catalan'' language. I phrased it as best I could when I edited the article in response to this comment. If you can think of a better phrasing, that would be good. Regards, [[User:Scolaire|Scolaire]] ([[User talk:Scolaire|talk]]) 12:18, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
:  Clearly I misunderstood then.  I appreciate the explanation. [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 20:16, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

== Manual of Style ==

Thanks for [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Dates_and_numbers&diff=next&oldid=811688198 this revert]. See also [[User talk:Wtmitchell#Manual Of Style]]. [[User:Wtmitchell|Wtmitchell]]  [[User talk:Wtmitchell|(talk)]] <small>(earlier ''Boracay Bill'')</small> 21:26, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
: It's not often I get thanked for reverting an edit! Thank you for taking the trouble. [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 21:56, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

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== Wainwright Airport ==

Just pointing out that the correct abbreviation for [[nautical mile]] is NM for aviation, [http://www.icao.int/APAC/Documents/edocs/WS-SIGMET.pdf WS SIGMET Quick Reference Guide]. [[User:CambridgeBayWeather|CambridgeBayWeather]], [[User talk:CambridgeBayWeather|Uqaqtuq (talk)]], [[Special:Contributions/CambridgeBayWeather|Sunasuttuq]] 12:58, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
: What matters on wikipedia is [[Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Dates_and_numbers#Specific_units|mosnum]], which I thought prefers nmi, but I just checked and it also permits NM, so I stand corrected. Thank you for pointing this out. Do you think aviation articles should all use NM? [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 19:18, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

== hyphen in EN-UK ==

I was surprised at your edit note at the MOS re EN-UK usage. Have you never come across structures like "a well-deserved holiday"?  (as opposed to "a well deserved [a] holiday",I suppose!) or a "well-earned pay rise". So "well-established convention" looks completely familiar whereas "well established convention" looks seriously weird to me. "well" and "established" are jointly qualifying "convention" so need to be linked for speed reading. Just saying. --[[User:John Maynard Friedman|John Maynard Friedman]] ([[User talk:John Maynard Friedman|talk]]) 14:25, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

: Yes, I've seen it, but I had the impression it is more common in American writing than British. Perhaps I've got this wrong but personally I prefer to reserve the hyphen for when it is needed, to distinguish between (eg) a red-car door (which might be green) and a red car door (which I assume would be red). The example is contrived but makes the point. I don't feel strongly about it either way, which is why I tagged my edit as "minor". [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 15:11, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

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== Precision / significant digit statement possible in conversion templates? ==

Greetings, thank you for your [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nautical_mile&diff=882795410&oldid=882788307 edit] to [[Nautical mile]] to "clarify that ft and mi conversions are approximate". I'm not a mathematician, but I take it this is about a loss of  precision in the conversion. Good to note. Too bad though that the convert template (<nowiki>{{convert|1852|m|ft mi}}</nowiki>) had to go. There is a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Convert/Archive_September_2015#Documentation_details discussion about precision] at [[Template:Convert]]. I don't have to time to investigate (or understand!) it all today, but I thought I'd check in with you in case you had any clues ... though I suppose that if you knew of such a template you'd have used it. If I don't come up with anything I'll try the convert talk page. Cheers. --[[User:Cornellier|Cornellier]] ([[User talk:Cornellier|talk]]) 23:56, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

: Yes, you understand correctly. The definition of a nautical mile as 1852 m ''exactly'' means that the conversions to miles or feet are approximate, so use of the 'convert' template meant that information was lost. I don't know whether the template can be modified to cope with this situation (which is not unique to the nautical mile), but it's worth asking on their talk page, as you suggest. [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 01:11, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

:: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Convert#Mark_rounding_in_output? Asked]. --[[User:Cornellier|Cornellier]] ([[User talk:Cornellier|talk]]) 00:08, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

== Goldfish hearing ==

Hello, Could you please add a reference for your recent edit to Goldfish adding a hearing section? Its important that everyone knows where the information came from! Thank you! --[[User:HighFlyingFish|HighFlyingFish]] ([[User talk:HighFlyingFish|talk]]) 01:27, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
: Done. [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 07:09, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
:: Thank you! --[[User:HighFlyingFish|HighFlyingFish]] ([[User talk:HighFlyingFish|talk]]) 15:36, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

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== Pound of thrust ==

Thank you for reply. If you can spare a moment, please review [[pound of thrust]] because I don't speak American or your strange FPS notation, so it may need copyedits. TYVM. --[[User:John Maynard Friedman|John Maynard Friedman]] ([[User talk:John Maynard Friedman|talk]]) 13:00, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
: I never use them bizarre American units myself, but find myself needing convert to SI often enough to have developed a certain familiarity. I don't see a need myself for a separate heading in (if I had done it myself I would have re-directed to [[pound (force)]] instead) but it does no harm either. Thank you for taking the trouble. [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 14:51, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

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{{help me-helped}} 
Hi, I've tried to contribute to "Sound Intensity" page by adding some general information mainly extracted from a couple of publications from Finn Jacobsen, who established the theoretical foundation for both types of transducers able to measure sound intensity (p-p and p-u probes). The change was rejected but I still think that this is rather objective information that should be available on Wikipedia. My contribution is in the talk page of "Sound Intensity". Could you please move it to the main page? Best regards [[User:Fernandez.microflown|Fernandez.microflown]] ([[User talk:Fernandez.microflown|talk]]) 21:10, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
:{{tps}} This is best discussed at the [[Talk:Sound intensity#article's talk page]]. I have commented there and [[WP:PING|notified]] the editor who removed the content of the discussion. [[User:Huon|Huon]] ([[User talk:Huon|talk]]) 23:08, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

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== Tungsten (VI) ==

Whew! Many thanks for reverting my well-intended edit in [[Tonne #alternative usage]]. [[User:Thnidu|Thnidu]] ([[User talk:Thnidu|talk]]) 15:08, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
: LOL. An easy mistake to make. I've made similar ones myself and am sure to do so again, so perhaps you can return the (well-intended) revert in kind. [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 17:22, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

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== Pico ==

Hi Dondervogel. I found your edit comment [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:SI_prefixes_(infobox)&curid=6846790&diff=1037608049&oldid=1037595433 here] surprising. You wrote, "I agree 'beak' is not relevant here, but to me 'peak' seems more relevant than 'little bit' (and I see 'little bit' as a synonym of 'peak')" ''Pico-'' is a prefix for very small quantities. An etymology from a word that means "little bit" makes sense to me. A claimed etymology from a word that means "peak" makes no sense to me at all. Are you seeing something I am missing?--[[User:Srleffler|Srleffler]] ([[User talk:Srleffler|talk]]) 20:09, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
: The way I see it is that "pico" (for "peak") refers to a mountain top, meaning the tiny piece of the mountain that sticks out at the top, and I believe the colloquial meaning (for "a little bit") originates from this interpretation. I don't have a source. It's just my understanding of the Spanish language (and I speak the language fluently). If you insist on a source, I think we must go back to the more general "peak, beak, little bit". Perhaps we should do that. [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 20:51, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
:: Perhaps [https://dle.rae.es/pico this definition of "pico"] by the [[Real Academia Española]], though not a source for my opinion, helps clarify the various meanings. Definition 6 is the mountain peak. Definition 10 refer to "a little bit". [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 20:58, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

== [[Draft:Jonathan Pershing|Jonathan Pershing]] moved to draftspace ==

An article you recently created, [[Draft:Jonathan Pershing|Jonathan Pershing]], is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more citations from [[WP:RS|reliable]], [[WP:IS|independent sources]]. <small>([[WP:42|?]])</small> Information that can't be referenced should be removed ([[WP:V|verifiability]] is of [[WP:5|central importance]] on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to [[Wikipedia:Draftspace|draftspace]] (with a prefix of "<code>Draft:</code>" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's [[WP:GNG|general notability guideline]] and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. [[User:Mcmatter|McMatter]] <sup>([[User talk:Mcmatter|talk]])</sup>/<sub>([[Special:Contributions/Mcmatter|contrib]])</sub> 02:38, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
: @[[User:Mcmatter|McMatter]]:Are you really suggesting [https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=jonathan+pershing+state+department the subject] lacks notability? Anyway, I have no intention to edit the draft further. I leave that to others. [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 07:10, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
::They very well could be notable, but a single connected source is not enough to establish it and instead of someone marking it for deletion, draftifying is a better option until it can be expanded enough to actually demonstrate how or why they meet [[WP:NPOL]], [[WP:GNG]] or [[WP:ANYBIO]]. [[User:Mcmatter|McMatter]] <sup>([[User talk:Mcmatter|talk]])</sup>/<sub>([[Special:Contributions/Mcmatter|contrib]])</sub> 17:40, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
::: I find that keeping a stub in MAIN space provides an incentive to improve it, while moving to DRAFT space means no one will see it and therefore no one will improve it either. Let's just agree to disagree. [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 14:06, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

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==Concern regarding [[Draft:Jonathan Pershing]]==
[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Hello, Dondervogel 2. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that [[Draft:Jonathan Pershing]], a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months [[WP:G13|may be deleted]], so if you wish to retain the page, please [[Special:EditPage/Draft:Jonathan Pershing|edit it]] again&#32;or [[WP:USERFY|request]] that it be moved to your userspace.

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Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. [[User:FireflyBot|FireflyBot]] ([[User talk:FireflyBot|talk]]) 03:01, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
:{{ping|Mcmatter}} advised that "draftifying" was the best way to make sure the article was improved. I never understood how a draft article would ever help. [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 11:08, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
==Your draft article, [[Draft:Jonathan Pershing]]==
[[File:Information icon4.svg|48px|left|alt=|link=]]

Hello, Dondervogel 2. It has been over six months since you last edited the [[WP:AFC|Articles for Creation]] submission or [[WP:Drafts|Draft]] page you started, "[[Draft:Jonathan Pershing|Jonathan Pershing]]". 

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia [[WP:mainspace|mainspace]], the draft has been deleted. If you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_undeletion/G13?withJS=MediaWiki:G13-restore-wizard.js&page=Draft%3AJonathan+Pershing request its undeletion]. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. <!-- Template:Db-draft-deleted --><!-- Template:Db-csd-deleted-custom --> <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 02:38, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

{{ping|Liz}} I don't understand why you're spamming me with this. The [https://www.google.com/search?q=jonathan+pershing+state+department subject] is clearly notable and the article belongs in WP mainspace, not in DRAFT. [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 12:19, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

==September 2022==
[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] [[Wikipedia:Welcoming committee/Welcome to Wikipedia|Welcome to Wikipedia]]. Everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia. However, discussion pages are meant to be a record of a discussion; deleting or editing legitimate comments, as you did at [[:Template talk:Quantities of bits]], is considered [[Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines#EDIT|bad practice]], even if you meant well.  Even making spelling and grammatical corrections in others' comments is generally frowned upon, as it tends to irritate the users whose comments you are correcting.  Take a look at the [[Wikipedia:Welcoming committee/Welcome to Wikipedia|welcome page]] to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you.<!-- Template:uw-tpv1 --> —[[User:Locke Cole|Locke Cole]] • [[User talk:Locke Cole|t]] • [[Special:Contributions/Locke Cole|c]] 22:26, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

== You're welcome! ==

Regarding your post on [[Template talk:Quantities of bits]]: it's appreciated but I don't think it's the right place for that. Please let's keep personal conversation to our talk pages. ;-) --[[User:Zac67|Zac67]] ([[User talk:Zac67|talk]]) 19:26, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
: Oh, sorry. I didn't realise it was inappropriate. Should I delete that part of the post? [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 19:46, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
: I see that LC has resumed his disruptive editing. I plan to stay away until that is addressed. [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 04:37, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
: {{ping|Zac67}} Hmmm, the ANI thread seems to have stagnated. The templates have also gone quiet, so I shall tip-toe back into the discussion in the hope of making some progress. [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 11:28, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
::Yes, very underwhelming... As it seems, the admins are unmotivated meddling with a perceivedly "fruitless discussion" and the aggressive tone/manner/harassment issues went under. Maybe we should try to gather some attention at the [[Wikipedia:Village pump]], as suggested. --[[User:Zac67|Zac67]] ([[User talk:Zac67|talk]]) 11:44, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
::: I don't mind where the discussion takes place, provided it remains civil. I made an attempt to restart the discussion at the template talk. I have no objection to trying the Village pump if you wish to try that. I don't have the energy to start that myself but I would support such attempts by others. [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 11:48, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
{{ping|Zac67}} fyi [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Quondum&oldid=1112836637] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Quondum&oldid=1029741979]. [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 10:37, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

==Your comment at [[Template talk:Quantities of bits]]==
[[Special:Diff/1113072411|With this edit]] you commented in a reply to me the following: {{tqq|You seem to imply you invited him to the discussion because you are confident he will support your position}}. [[Special:Diff/1113129490|I had replied]], asking {{tqq|Where did I imply this?}}. Can you explain your comment as I've already asked? —[[User:Locke Cole|Locke Cole]] • [[User talk:Locke Cole|t]] • [[Special:Contributions/Locke Cole|c]] 21:28, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
: I will consider responding to your questions once they are expressed as questions (or requests, but not demands) and when you learn to [[WP:AGF|assume good faith]]. [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 11:33, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
::OK, so to be 100% clear here, you don't get to set conditions on [[WP:ASPERSIONS|casting aspersions]]. Explain your comments or remove them. These are your only choices. —[[User:Locke Cole|Locke Cole]] • [[User talk:Locke Cole|t]] • [[Special:Contributions/Locke Cole|c]] 18:15, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
:::And just to be clear, my original comment above was a question. But as you're now making more aspersions about me at AN/I, it is now a demand. I will take your lack of replies as evidence of your continued misbehavior and note it at AN/I going forward. —[[User:Locke Cole|Locke Cole]] • [[User talk:Locke Cole|t]] • [[Special:Contributions/Locke Cole|c]] 00:49, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
::::I will feel able to respond when you rephrase the demand as a request on the [[Template_talk:Quantities_of_bits#What_are_the_options_for_the_disputed_heading?|template talk page]] and if you work towards a consensus on [[Template talk:Quantities of bits]]. [[Template_talk:Quantities_of_bits#Attempt_to_establish_consistency_in_3_sister_templates_during_dispute_about_JEDEC_heading|Agreeing a baseline version]] would be a good place to start. The baseline version does not have to be the same as my proposal, but you do need to persuade other editors why your proposal is a better starting point. [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 12:04, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
:::::{{tqq|I will feel able to respond when you rephrase the demand as a request}} Again, you don't get to set conditions on casting aspersions. {{tqq|on the template talk page and if you work towards a consensus on Template talk:Quantities of bits}} Why would I ask a user conduct question on a template talk page? What does the template have to do with you casting aspersions? And for the latter part, you don't get to hold answers for your behavior hostage to meeting your demands. That's literally not how this has worked. Ever. —[[User:Locke Cole|Locke Cole]] • [[User talk:Locke Cole|t]] • [[Special:Contributions/Locke Cole|c]] 16:42, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

== Barns ==

Thanks for notifying my status of visualizing fractional barn cross sections. I have removed the "square decayoctometer" thing.

[[User:--MULLIGANACEOUS--|--MULLIGANACEOUS--]] ([[User talk:--MULLIGANACEOUS--|talk]]) 04:29, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

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== Radio spectrum ==

Please ignore my labeling of your edits as vandalism, as what you did does not constitute vandalism in any way, shape, or form. '''''Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa'''''!!!!!!! As you can see, I reverted it back to your version.
[[Special:Contributions/2603:6011:7501:7862:BD9C:D5BA:A7C9:359D|2603:6011:7501:7862:BD9C:D5BA:A7C9:359D]] ([[User talk:2603:6011:7501:7862:BD9C:D5BA:A7C9:359D|talk]])

== unhelpful rv ==

re [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Dates_and_numbers&curid=189815&diff=1151812788&oldid=1151811754]: how does this not fall under {{U|XAM2175}}'s "Further discussion here will be completely unproductive"? How can one know a post by ''me'' would be equally acceptable? Anyway, the edit you reverted is trolling. Also, it is not helpful in the discussion. I still propose removal. [[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 11:53, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
: I still consider it inappropriate to delete the post, even by the editor who posted them in the first place. If that editor chooses to withdraw the remark, the best way to do so would be to strike through them. My 2c. [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 12:07, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
::Do you understand my reasoning, my es? Looks like you missed the essentials. You have not replied to my Whatif-question here. [[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 12:55, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

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== bps ➝ bit/s ==

Hello, thanks for standardizing [[Free-space optical communication]]; do you happen to know if there is a guideline written anywhere about preferring bit/s over bps? I'll propose officially adopting it at [[WP:COMP]] if not! [[User:Tule-hog|Tule-hog]] ([[User talk:Tule-hog|talk]]) 01:46, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

:Yes, there is such a rule. You can find it at [[Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Dates_and_numbers#Specific_units|MOSNUM]]. [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 08:12, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
:By the way, while editing that article I noticed several occurrences of "metre" and several others of "meter". I prefer to harmonise but was unsure which to use, so I left it mixed. [[User:Dondervogel 2|Dondervogel 2]] ([[User talk:Dondervogel 2#top|talk]]) 08:16, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
::The article is flagged for using AE, yet the flag's a bit dated. So the choice is "meter", see [[MOS:ENGVAR]]. --[[User:Zac67|Zac67]] ([[User talk:Zac67|talk]]) 11:21, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

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