Talk:Attempted assassination of Donald Trump in Pennsylvania

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Page history

This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Discussions:
Moved, 13 July 2024, from 2024 shooting at a Donald Trump rally to Attempted assassination of Donald Trump, see discussion. Not moved, 14 July 2024, from Attempted assassination of Donald Trump to 2024 Attempted assassination of Donald Trump, see discussion.

A news item involving Attempted assassination of Donald Trump in Pennsylvania was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 14 July 2024.

Wikipedia

This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report. The week in which this happened:

July 14 to 20, 2024

Section sizes

Section size for Attempted assassination of Donald Trump in Pennsylvania (22 sections)
Section name	Byte count	Section total
(Top)	14,392	14,392
Background	7,772	15,410
Security arrangements	7,638	7,638
Shooting	38,442	50,920
Timeline	12,478	12,478
Victims	9,529	9,529
Perpetrator	15,413	15,413
Aftermath	16,316	61,600
Investigation	17,884	23,391
Motive	5,507	5,507
Criticism of security arrangements	14,694	14,694
Photographs	7,199	7,199
Reactions	5,788	77,060
Domestic	24,737	24,737
International	15,041	15,041
Online	10,573	10,573
Misinformation and conspiracy theories	16,697	16,697
Entertainment affected	4,224	4,224
See also	425	425
Notes	23	23
References	30	30
External links	2,064	2,064
Total	246,866	246,866

On 15 September 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Attempted assassination of Donald Trump to Attempted assassination of Donald Trump in Pennsylvania. The result of the discussion was moved.

2nd proposal on adding mass shooting categories

Given that time has passed since my initial request some months ago, I'd like to bring up this subject again. Speaking strictly on facts, this event can be considered a mass shooting according to several definitions (which are utilised across Wikipedia), including the definitions set by the Gun Violence Archive, Vox, and the Stanford University MSA Data Project. More importantly, since the shooting, several reliable sources have, one way or another, referred to this event a mass shooting, or referred to Crooks as a mass shooter. See the contents of the following:

The Attempt to Assassinate Trump Was Also a Mass Shooting | The Trace

Criminologist: Shooting at Trump rally yet another reason to focus on assault weapons | The Palm Beach Post

Trump Rally Attack Was PA’s 19th Mass Shooting of 2024 | CeaseFirePA

Trump is now a member of the mass shooting survivor’s club – will it change anything? | The Guardian

Trump describes assassination attempt in speech accepting GOP presidential nomination | Nebraska Examiner

Trump rally gunman Thomas Crooks in rare class among high-profile shooters | Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Tree may have blocked sniper team's view of Trump rally gunman, maps show | CBS News (categorised as a 'mass shooting' article)

'He was a true hero:' PA man shares his attempt to help father killed in Trump shooting | The Beaver County Times

Trump Agrees to FBI Interview in Attempted Assassination Investigation | The New York Times

Trump Rally Shooter Had Interest in Violence Since 2019, FBI Analysis Shows | The New York Times

This is not every article, but I think this is more than enough to allow categories such as Category:Mass shootings in the United States. These articles could be inserted into the article for referencing if people agree with this proposal. Previous discussions of this concept were met with opposition due to lack of reliable sources calling this event a mass shooting, so I compiled this small list of a variety of global, national and local news sources which do so. It is worth noting that this event is already classified as a mass shooting on the article List of mass shootings in the United States in 2024. Additionally, within this article, under Motive, it is already stated that this shooting fits some definitions of a mass shooting.

In other discussions of this nature, it has been argued that Crooks was likely only targeting Trump, so categorising the event as a 'mass shooting' is inappropriate, but this would be original research (WP:OR) as Crooks' entire motives and intentions have not been confirmed. Macxcxz (talk) 02:34, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 31 October 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Change: A previous attempt at violence toward Trump during one of his rallies happened in 2016, when a man attempted to grab a security officer's gun at a rally outside of Las Vegas.[27]

To:

A previous attempt at violence toward Trump during one of his rallies happened in 2016, when a man attempted to grab a police officer's gun at a rally outside of Las Vegas.[27]

Source is the in the linked (27) news article. The "security" officer was in fact a Las Vegas Metropolitan Police officer, on duty providing assistance to the Secret Service. 72.5.34.1 (talk) 09:53, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Accepted. Macxcxz (talk) 10:03, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Trump being supposedly shot and the FBI report

The lead paragraph currently states that Trump was "shot", based on a RfC. However, that RfC predates the FBI report - currently cited in the article via a NYT article - that states that Trump was either grazed by a bullet or by a fragment thereof i.e. it is unclear whether he was actually shot. While a number of sources use that phrasing, most predate that report. Cortador (talk) 10:49, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think this depends on your definition of "shot". A bullet was fired at him and hit him - to some extent - so I think 'shot' is appropriate. Macxcxz (talk) 11:32, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This has already been debated ad nauseam. The FBI confirmed that Trump was shot by a bullet, either whole or in part. Any discussion beyond that is useless semantics. "Shot" is completely appropriate:

https://www.britannica.com/dictionary/shoot

"to wound or kill (a person or animal) with a bullet, arrow, etc., that is shot from a weapon"

A bullet fragment is part of a bullet. Just so it's extra clear for you, being grazed by a bullet is a more specific subset of being shot by a bullet i.e. if you were grazed by a bullet, then by definition you were shot by a bullet. MightyLebowski (talk) 01:15, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Ketchup packet" claims

Yes, I am actually bringing this up because it's actually "a thing" which has been an issue since the attempt. There are several reliable sources which have brought it up in order to debunk the ridiculousness of it:

Doctored photo of Trump assassination attempt fuels baseless 'staged' claims

Why Conspiracy Theories Spread on the Left and Right After the Assassination Attempt on Trump

Ahead of U.S. polls, Liberals stir the pot with conspiracy theories

How BlueAnon conspiracy theories are gaining momentum since the assassination attempt on Trump

Trump shooting, one week on

Should this be included? 216.168.91.102 (talk) 21:57, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Close call, but I don't think so. The article already says "False claims included that the shooting and blood on Trump were faked; that crisis actors were used..." in the "Misinformation and conspiracy theories" section. After checking out the ketchup packet photo in question (which is hilarious) I find it hard to believe anyone took it seriously... this seems to be about just another internet meme. Marcus Markup (talk) 06:24, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As with the above, were already cover false claims. Slatersteven (talk) 10:52, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]