Heretic filmmakers on Monopoly, Hugh Grant's Jar Jar Binks impression, and that surprising cameo

Warning: this article contains spoilers for Heretic.

Heretic has a lot to say about theology — but don't worry, it's not a full-on sermon. Filmmakers Scott Beck and Bryan Woods, who wrote and directed the film together, express many of those complex ideas through pop cultural metaphors and genre tropes.

The film sees Mormon missionaries Sister Barnes (Sophie Thatcher) and Sister Paxton (Chloe East) visit the foreboding compound of charismatic scholar Mr. Reed (Hugh Grant) to discuss their faith. Throughout the film, Reed engages in lengthy lectures about the history of religion as a method of control, gradually becoming more menacing as the discussions grow longer and longer.

Don't hate the player, hate the game

Mr. Reed's monologues about the perils of organized religion hinge on his arguments about iterations — he repeatedly points out the patterns that emerge from unconnected faiths throughout history to downplay the uniqueness and legitimacy of them all, including Mormonism. 

Woods tells Entertainment Weekly that the filmmaking duo's decade-long research efforts made them realize how important it was to make the film's theological points widely digestible — but first, they had to wrap their heads around various theologies themselves. "We started writing the script about 10 years ago, and as the script is evolving, we realized that Mr. Reed has a genius-level IQ, and he knows everything about every religion and cult that's ever existed," he explains. "We got to the point where we realized, 'We don't know enough to write this movie. We have no idea. He's talking about things that we just truly don't know much about.'"

The filmmakers pressed pause on writing the script and worked on A Quiet Place and The Boogeyman while researching Islam, Scientology, and Mormonism, as well as the works of prominent atheist thinkers like Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens. Once they returned to Heretic after penning other projects, they conjured up several helpful pop culture metaphors to illustrate Reed's points. "When we got to the pop culture references, that's us putting religion into terms that Scott and I 10 years earlier could understand," Woods says. "We're trying to find ways to express these complex ideas that we didn't understand before. We did the research to explain it to the versions of us who hadn't done the research."

The most important pop cultural touchstone in Reed's lecture is a divisive board game. "Monopoly became a great metaphor because it has a history that really is about feminism and men kind of controlling certain things and just the idea of control in general," Woods explains. (In the film, Reed notes that the Landlord's Game, a game virtually identical to Monopoly, was created by feminist writer Elizabeth Magie before Parker Brothers bought the patent and converted it into a more populist, pro-capitalist product.) "That felt connected to religion to us, the origin story of Monopoly. So we were just trying to find different things that connected, and it was a very long process, but a fun process."

The phantom menace

At one point during a monologue, Mr. Reed compares the details of Christian and Mormon mythology — virgin births and messianic figures, for example — to several older religions, as well as Star Wars: Episode I — The Phantom Menace. The moment prompts Grant to launch into a hilarious (and unfortunately brief) Jar Jar Binks impression.

"It's funny, we showed an early cut to the filmmaker David Lowery for feedback, and he was like, 'Man, I love the idea that Hugh had to do an impersonation of Jar Jar, and he probably has never seen Star Wars: Episode I, but he had to do this impersonation,'" Woods recalls. "And we were like, 'No, David. Knowing Hugh, he probably watched Star Wars: Episode I just for this movie, just to understand that role, that line, and just so he could perform it with A+ execution.'"

Grant, however, says that he actually did not watch The Phantom Menace for research purposes — or any other Star Wars, for that matter. "One of my guiltiest secrets is that I've still never seen a Star Wars movie," he tells EW. "In my infinite thoroughness, I researched it and I did watch a bit of it. I think I YouTubed it."

Beck says Grant didn't reveal his Binks impression until the directors yelled "action." "That was an example of something Hugh would want to purposefully withhold until the camera is rolling so as not to give it away," the filmmaker says. "And there's so many moments in the movie where we'd start take one, and he would just go by the script and then add one little word or punctuation. And it was that moment of just being real and authentic and yet hilarious. That's one thing that was really important to this movie: making sure even though it lives in a darker genre, the performance feels grounded but also plays to the dark humor."

Finding Elder Kennedy

One of the most surprising elements in Heretic is its fourth most important character: Elder Kennedy, the church leader who sends Paxton and Barnes to Reed's home and eventually checks on them when they don't return from their house call. Kennedy's visit with Reed is brief and completely ineffectual, as he doesn't interrogate Grant's character beyond a few passing questions — and although he returns for one more beat after Reed slams the door, he simply offers the antagonist a pamphlet about Mormonism instead of continuing his search for the sisters.

The role is hilariously played by Topher Grace, whose casting leads the audience to believe that his character will be far more important than he actually is. "One of the things we're really proud of with the movie is that it has a series of anti-climaxes," Woods says. "Normally, as a writer, anti-climax, you stay the f--- away from. That's not something you ever want to mess with because it's inherently disappointing. But we found a metaphorical kinship to anti-climax with religion that there's something about religion that is this kind of beautiful, encompassing, amazing spiritual thing maybe, or maybe it's nothing depending on your point of view. And so we wanted to play with this idea of anti-climax."

Woods says that Elder Kennedy epitomizes the joy of an anti-climax and that his inclusion in the movie builds off a classic horror trope that affects audience expectations. "We love this idea of how in any other movie you've got the outside character who you're cutting away from the main plot to show them saving the day," he says. "If it's The Shining, you have Scatman Crothers; if it's Misery, you have Richard Farnsworth. And in every instance of this type of movie, it's always one of two outcomes: Either they save the day, or they're killed."

Woods continues, "We thought it would be annoying but beautiful in its own way to give a third option, where it's almost like he's making a philosophical statement about the church's need to advertise religion at all costs. Luckily, Topher got what we were going for. It was important to cast an actor that has a relationship with the audience so that they see him and they start to write the narrative of what's going to happen with that character just so that we can intentionally disappoint them."

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Heretic is now playing in theaters.

These interviews have been edited for clarity and length.