Note: more generally, I have a list of other things I'd like to see in rcParams.

@JosephBARBIERDARNAL one of the things we've been discussing on and off is what our rcparams spec should even be - should it migrate to Python or json or the like (a good proportion of https://matplotlib.org/devdocs/devel/MEP/index.html)

So might be worth thinking of this from that broader picture given that as far as I can see, this proposal would entail adding zorder to a bunch of properties (lines.zorder, etc)/

@story645 Would such a PR be welcome in the current rcParams structure, or should I wait until the spec changes are more finalized?

If it helps, from the user's point of view, rcParams is really intuitive and I don't know what other specifications would add. The only thing that I feel could be improved is the matplotlibrc file, which I've always found confusing.

We have been relatively permissive about adding new rcparams when there has been a use case (we grow one or two per release). I suspect we would merge a PR adding the 4 listed zorder controls.

Great! Any pointers on how to add something to rcParams would be much appreciated (a PR that does this might actually work, I'll try to find one).

#18715 is a reasonable template.

Perfect, thanks

The only thing that I feel could be improved is the matplotlibrc file, which I've always found confusing.

how? what kinda things would make it easier for you?

The current zorder values are collected here: https://matplotlib.org/stable/gallery/misc/zorder_demo.html#zorder-demo.

If we start making them configurable, we should do all

image.zorder: 0
patch.zorder: 1
line.zorder: 2
text.zorder: 3
legend.zorder: 5

The majortick zorder is currently line.zorder + 0.01. We could leave that for a start, or also think about making it configureable. Same with grid.zorder.

how? what kinda things would make it easier for you?

It's more than that I don't understand why users should even be aware of this file. When looking at this in the documentation, it suggests that we can modify values in it to customize a plot, but at the same time the top of the file is ## NOTE FOR END USERS: DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE!

From what I understand, rcParams is the only thing that users should be worried about, both in terms of ease of use and reproductibility (since I assume the matplotlibrc file is not meant to be versioned).

Maybe this documentation is meant for matplotlib developers, but it's not obvious.

What I like about this page in the documentation is that it contains all the rcParams parameters clearly defined.

the top of the file is ## NOTE FOR END USERS: DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE!

The following lines state that users should make a copy of the file and edit that. Is there a way you think we could make that more obvious?

the top of the file is ## NOTE FOR END USERS: DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE!

The following lines state that users should make a copy of the file and edit that. Is there a way you think we could make that more obvious?

I just realised I'd misread it, I thought it was NOT instead of NOTE.

But maybe something like that would be more intuitive: ## DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE, MAKE A COPY FIRST

But maybe something like that would be more intuitive: ## DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE, MAKE A COPY FIRST

Wanna open that PR?

Wanna open that PR?

Yes, here it is: #30037