Indian Readers discussion

Starting a cozy read on Dostoyevsky's 'The Gambler'. May be we can use this thread for books authored by Dostoyevsky.

A little note on 'The Gambler'
'The Gambler' was written in a mere 26 days in 1866 with the help of stenographer Anna Grigorievna Snitkina whom Dostoyevsky married later. Editor W. J. Leatherbarrow mentions that 'The Gambler has been widely regarded as an autobiographical and highly personal work, drawing on Dostoyevsky's own experiences of being a Russian abroad, on his slavish fascination with the casinos in Europe, and on his relationship with Suslova.'

Here I am!
Suppose to start it monday. I have picked up again Shantaram to finish it; though I don't like it I don't like to leave books midway.

Have you already read much of The Gambler?

dely wrote: "Here I am!
Suppose to start it monday. I have picked up again Shantaram to finish it; though I don't like it I don't like to leave books midway.

Have you already read much of The Gambler?"

I have finished the first three chapters so far. The initial pages in the first chapter seem haphazard and I could faintly make out matters towards the ending of this chapter. This I noticed in 'Poor Folk' too-Dostoyevsky doesn't give a detailed description of how the protagonists met or what they had been through earlier. Is this is general style? But strangely it does create an air of mystery.

Parikhit wrote: "This I noticed in 'Poor Folk' too-Dostoyevsky doesn't give a detailed description of how the protagonists met or what they had been through earlier. Is this is general style? But strangely it does create an air of mystery."

No, it is not his style. Generally he likes to write a lot about the past of his characters in order to know them better; he is generally very detailed. In some books you can find a whole part dedicated only to one character (for example in Demons or Brothers Karamazov). Usually he talks also about how they met and the relationship that links them. There are also exceptions, or because he wants to leave the mystery or because it wasn't an important part for the storyline.

Argh! I have added my edition and the combine is broken so I can't combine my edition to the others!

Parikhit wrote: "I have finished the first three chapters so far. The initial pages in the first chapter seem haphazard and I could faintly make out matters towards the ending of this chapter."

I have read the first three chapters and Dosto puts all the characters in the first pages but he will talk about them later. He rarely doesn't examine his characters and I am sure that going forward in the story Dosto will make us know them better. Already in the second and in the third chapter he begins to introduce Paulina and his main character but we begin to have an idea also about the personality of the others.

Things seems to be falling in place now. Interesting turn of events. Polina appears to be a cruel woman so far.

In Poor Folk he had kept Devushkin's character in wraps and not significant details about Barbara. Possible because the entire novel was written in letters.

I have read a few more chapters and I am plain annoyed with Alexey. What does Polina intend?? Why do (I beg your parden) women behave so very capriciously towards men? Poor Alexey.

Parikhit wrote: "I have read a few more chapters and I am plain annoyed with Alexey. What does Polina intend?? Why do (I beg your parden) women behave so very capriciously towards men? Poor Alexey."

:D

I am not capricious with men; I ignore them since the beginning!

Hadn't time to continue but in Dosto's books the female characters are always good portrayed: there is often the neglected girl, poor and suffering; and there is the capricious and proud girl. But also the capricious one is human, there are always problems behind her behaviour and she too suffers for something; she too needs compassion at the end.

I am not capricious with men; I ignore them since the beginning!

Lol :D

Well I hope Polina comes up with a very good reason for her behaviour so :)

I finished chapter 8.
I think everybody uses the other; everybody needs something by another: Blanche needs the General, and the General needs the French nobleman; surely Polina needs for some reason (surely money) Aleksey and he is in love with her and would do everything for her; everybody needs that the grandmother dies. Everything turns around money.
Aleksey is in love with Polina and he would do everything for her, also cancel himself and she takes advantage of this. But he begins also to be sick (like a lot of characters in Dosto's books); he explains that sometimes he feels dizzy and he loses contact with reality and he behaves strangely.

dely wrote: "I finished chapter 8.
I think everybody uses the other; everybody needs something by another: Blanche needs the General, and the General needs the French nobleman; surely Polina needs for some reas..."

True. Each one is dependent on someone or the other. Mr. Astley's presence is still a mystery though.

The next few chapters become as interesting as ever. Grandmother makes an entry and things go hilarious. I kept laughing all the way.

Parikhit wrote: "The next few chapters become as interesting as ever. Grandmother makes an entry and things go hilarious. I kept laughing all the way. "

I have read, the granny with the fever for roulette and her relatives afraid for the inheritance is really hilarious! But I hadn't a lot of time today to read, just read only 2 more chapters.

The Gambler seems to be deeper than I had assumed. I have 20 more pages to go and I find it increasingly difficult to predict what may come next.

Polina has earned herself my anger again! I find her a person so hard to decipher. Totally unpredictable.

I have finished it.
It is a good book though it is too short to portray better the characters. I know that Dostoyevsky had to write it fast because he needed money and perhaps it is because of this that in this story I felt the luck of deeper insight of the personalities of the characters.
Also the storyline is very simple and there are not a lot of tangles among the characters.
Polina and Aleksey are the two most important characters of this story and in which we can recognize Dostoyevsky's style. The most hateful female characters are at the end the most vulnerable that have inner problems but instead of talking about them they suffer in silence and behave in a hateful way. You will find such characters also in The Idiot (Nastasja), in The Brothers Karamazov (Grushenka). These are the female characters I love the most because they are often misunderstood, I mean in the story: they are hated but they need help and compassion; but these are the characters with which Dostoyevsky makes a very deep and detailed insight of suffering.
Also here, at the end, there is no happy ending, there is no salvation for Aleksey, he is lost.

I finished it too. Indeed its a very short to portray all that the book has to offer.
I read about the fact that Dostoyevsky needed money quick and so the book was written in 26 days.
I felt for Aleksey and only understood Polina towards the end. I wish Dostoyevsky had written a few parts from Polina's perspective. They do suffer in silence. Polina loved Aleksey yet she did not wish to be with him. Did she feel vulnerable when with Aleksey? Did she abhor the idea that he was given to gambling? Why did she turn to Mr. Astley for solace and comfort? She could have turned to Aleksey and possibly that could have prevented his downfall. Did she, but, loathe the recklessness that was inseparable from Aleksey?

Aleksey is a ruined man.

Parikhit wrote: "I felt for Aleksey and only understood Polina towards the end. I wish Dostoyevsky had written a few parts from Polina's perspective.

Yes, I agree.

Polina loved Aleksey yet she did not wish to be with him. Did she feel vulnerable when with Aleksey? Did she abhor the idea that he was given to gambling?

Perhaps in part she felt guilty for that but I think she was disappointed with him not only because he accepted but because she knew that then he couldn't stop anymore. For love, from Polina's point of view, he would have never had to accept to go to play but he had to help her in another way.
I think she would have liked more mental strenght from him, more determination. But it is difficult to say because often the characters are very complex and this time Dosto wasn't very deep in the explanation of Polina's thought.

Why did she turn to Mr. Astley for solace and comfort? She could have turned to Aleksey and possibly that could have prevented his downfall. Did she, but, loathe the recklessness that was inseparable from Aleksey? ..."

I don't know. Perhaps because he was "normal" without excesses: he didn't mad things for love, stood apart waiting and perhaps he gave her stability. In the other side he didn't want to stay with her for money (like the French).
I think that also if she had returned to Aleksey, she knew that he was already lost, it is because of this that she didn't return to him. She felt Aleksey was like the French, as if Aleksey wanted to "buy" her love with money. He wanted only to help her but she understood in a different way Aleksey's behavior.

Surely a lot seems unexplained about Polina's character.Or actually being a short book,Dostoevsky dint get to simplify it more for us as he usually does and hence the readers were left to untangle on their own.

Polina obviously had been a neglected child all her life and had been taking care of her siblings and felt responsible for their future.Moreover her father's reckless ways and leading an irresponsible life had made her feel more insecure as ever from inside,although she successfully tried to be as inconspicuous about it.And i think by dissembling this she appeared to be somewhat pretentious at all times.

She rather seemed to be a practical person who knew better than to be carried away by strong feelings which never remain the same forever but only lessen with time.
As for our hero - the gambler -,Polina never seemed sure about him from the beginning.The ecstatic state that she found in him when he returned after winning from the casino confused her even more than before about him.Was this euphoria or being in a state of high which he was experiencing at the time was out of pleasures derived from gambling or was it out of getting his love -- was what Polina was concerned about.
Polina ofcourse wanted to be absolutely sure about taking a right decision for securing the future of hers and her siblings.She wanted mostly, to marry a person who led a responsible life and was not carried away helplessly by worldly passions.

Interesting thoughts, Tarun!
At the end of the story Polina surely gets sick because she was fought between love/passion and stability/security. The difficult decision made her ill (perhaps because it was better to choose love?).

:) Cant say if it would have been better for Polina to choose love.....and that love which she wasnt sure about herself.Im sure she would have been unable to resist if she had felt a very strong love/passion for Alexey.

The turn around of events after the departure of her grandmother,isolation and financial crisis of her father alongwith the prevailing confusion in her heart about the decision to leave Alexey(a huge risk was involved in that decision as she was going by her instincts) -- was probably too much for her to bear at the moment which made her ill.

Tarun wrote: ":) Cant say if it would have been better for Polina to choose love.....and that love which she wasnt sure about herself.Im sure she would have been unable to resist if she had felt a very strong l..."

So, at the end, whatever she had chosen she would get ill.
But this is a thing I like of Dostyevsky, there is never a happy ending perhaps because also in "real" life happy endings are very rare.

dely wrote: "Tarun wrote: ":) Cant say if it would have been better for Polina to choose love.....and that love which she wasnt sure about herself.Im sure she would have been unable to resist if she had felt a..."

"happy endings are very rare", so true Dely. That is also something I admire about Dostoyevsky. It is saddening but that is the way that is.

I remember reading a Hindi poem in school and a particular line stuck with me always. Translated it runs,
"Happiness is the streak of lightning that appears between the clouds of sorrow"

Parikhit wrote: "I remember reading a Hindi poem in school and a particular line stuck with me always. Translated it runs,
"Happiness is the streak of lightning that appears between the clouds of sorrow" "

Very true. Unfortunately I don't believe in happiness; I believe in serenity and also this is very difficult to reach.

dely wrote:So, at the end, whatever she had chosen she would get ill.

well that was what i felt and i could be wrong about it ... and i also think that this decision of hers of leaving Alexey which resulted in parting with the money she could have easily used to set things right for her instantly was the toughest one for her and troubled her more because with that she was moving into a more uncertain territory.


By the way,Dely,how did u find "House of the Dead".This is one book of Dostoyevsky's which is so unlike his other works.I am just not impressed by it at all.Maybe its the haphazard way of the narration but I just didnt get the Dostoyevsky feel in it at all.

Tarun wrote: "By the way,Dely,how did u find "House of the Dead".This is one book of Dostoyevsky's which is so unlike his other works.I am just not impressed by it at all.Maybe its the haphazard way of the narration but I just didnt get the Dostoyevsky feel in it at all. "

Yes, it is different from the others. We are used to read a plot with his characters, their troubles, their problems, the psychological development of the characters and their inner struggle. House of the death is different: there isn't a real plot but rather an observation of the characters; there is also a different way to look at the psychology of the characters. Here we haven't a development in the psychology for a commetted crime and a repentance or something like this but the characters are already "done". It means that they have already made their crime (they are in prison) and so Dostoyevsky rather observes them and talks about their behaviour in prison and why they have made that particular crime and for me it was also interesting to read the psychological differences among the different crimes.
Like I said in the past this book is more a psychological treatise rather than a story with its plot.
However, I liked it though at the beginning I turned up my nose a little bit because I was used to read Dostoyevsky's books who were set differently. But at the end it was a very interesting read.