Declassified Documents Concerning Tony Blair

Clinton Presidential Records
Mandatory Declassification Review
This is not a presidential record. This is used as an administrative

marker by the William J. Clinton Presidential Library Staff.
Documents from this Mandatory Declassification Review were
released in full or released in part.
Those documents released with redactions have been restricted
under Sections 1.4 (b) and (d) of E.O. 13526.
3087
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
1.0 I
MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATICN

SUBJECT:
Telcon with ~abour Party Leader and Prime

Minister-elect Tony Blair
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Mr. Blair
Notetakers: Natalie Johnson, Marc Koehler
and Marian~a Papadimitriou
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
May I, 1997, 11:25-11:27 p.m. EDT

Residence
The President:
Mr. Blair:
Hello.
The President:
Mr. Blair:
. Hello?
Tony?
Congratulations.
Thanks very much indeed.
The President:
What are you doing, making a round of parties?
Mr. Blair: Yes we are just off. There's a big celebration by

the banks of the Thames. I'm just heading off there now. We're
slowing duwn through the night. It's a stunning result, really.
The President:
Mr. Blair:
Yes, it's amazing, isn't it?
The President:
Mr. Blair:
That was amazing.
I'm really happy for you.
Yes, well you showed the way.
The President:
I'm sorry you got so much grief from the press.
Mr. Blair: That's right.

Left don't defend you.
Always the Right attack you and the

DECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE
INTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL,
E.O.13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)
ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, document no. 1
'~'
,_At'" ~_f'''~';;' DECLASSI~ICATION ~ATE: October 14,2015
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r-.,J
INTON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY
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The President: Well, the people voted for you. That's the main
thing.
I wish you well and look forward to working with you.
I
guess I'll see you soon, at that NATO meeting, if not. sooner.
Mr. Blair: Yes, that's right.
I would love to do that. We have
a chance to do something now.
I look forward to meeting with
you. We have a good and strong relationship.
The President: See you soon. Go on back to your people now.
just wanted to wish you congratulations.
Mr. Blair:
Thanks, thank you very much indeed.
The P.resident:
Mr. Blair:
Good-bye.
Good-bye.
End of Conversation
CONFlOENriAL
GOHFIDji;NTIAI..
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASH I NGTON
MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION
SUBJECT:
Private Meeting with Prime Minister Blair and

British Cabinet (U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
William Daley, Secretary of Commerce
William Crowe, Ambassador to the UK
Samuel Berger, Assistant to the President for
National Security Affairs
James Steinberg, Deputy Assistant to the
President for National Security Affairs
Mary Ann Peters, Director for European
Affairs, NSC (Noteta~ec)
Prime Minister Blair
John Holmes, Private Secretary to the
Prime Minister for Overseas Affairs
Members of the British Cabinet
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
May 29, 1997, 11:40 a.m. - 12 noon

The Cabinet Room, No. 10 Downing Street
Prime Minister Blair:

(Following introductions of Cabinet
members)
Parliament is in recess; we are having a hell of a time
getting underway -- the honeymoon doesn't last long.
The second
term is what we need; to take nothing for granted and not rely on
the other side's unpopularity. Ci
The President:
I am delighted to be here.
I admire what you did
for the party; it is important to have the freedom to capture the
center and move into tomorrow. -ft
The truth is we took part of what we did
from you;
I am happy that these issues are on the agenda in the
rest of Europe now. ~
The President:
There are some leaders like the prime ministers
of the Netherlands and Portugal who have the same ideas. ~
other examples.
~
CONFIDEH'l'IAL
Reason:
1.5 (b) ,
Declassify On, , 6/
And Sweden -- it is helpful to look at

E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)
5;~;iiooiE]' O:"hff 14, 2015
CONFIDtNTlAL
CONFIDEN'I'IAL
The President:
Kok was talking about France; they are not ready
yet to do what is needed.
~he UK, the Netherlands and the Uniterl
states have good social compacts that make the country work; in
the United States we need to maintain competitiveness while
looking out for people. Millions can't cope with work and
family; and these are the people who face education and safe
streets and health care challenges.
If you succeed, and I think.
you will, constructive change will have to take place.
France
and Germany need to balance social programs and global realities;
a different version of that problem faces us all. ~
That is why it is so important to exchange
ideas; we have learned from the best and worst of experiences;
there. must .be structural change.
It could well be premature to
. introduce the euro without it. ;e1
The President:
It is interesting how a currency acquires a life
of its own -- it has become the litmus test for France and
Germany, though the underlying changes have not taken place.
yz(
(Cabinet meeting adjourned, discussion continued with Chancellor

of Exchequer Brown.)
Mr. Brown:
There is a need for a flexible labor market, which
you faced up to in the United States. You have 50 percent more
consumption per head than France and Germany because they have
not liberalized shopping hours, and 50 percent more computer
work.
If possible, we should make the G-7 the forum for
discussion of flexible labor forces so others can learn from the
U.s. experience.
The debate needs to go forward in Europe.
~
It doesn't mean giving up the social
compact but it is. a new world.
The role of government is not
about hostilities with business but to equip people with the
skills and technology they need and help families. ~
The President:
I agree with that.
k81
Mr. Brown:
In Great Britain, the long-term unemployed make up 40
percent of our unemployed, compared with 10 percent in the United
States. We have no way to get them back to work. There will
have to be huge changes; France is the best example because their
public sectqr is huge. We need to demonstrate that growth and
social programs can work together -- you do not have to sacrifice.
one for the other.
~
I told Jospin that he was attacking the
right for the wrong reasons -- he should be doing it because they
are not going far enough. Je7
CONFIDENTIAL
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The President:
We cut government employment by 300,000.
It is
now the smallest since the Kennedy Administration and, on a per
capita basis, the smallest it has been since 1933. We have
direct transfers to social security and to state and local
governments. You could be helpful with the difficulties within
France and Germany with regard to social spending. At least in
Germany they spend the money better, on long-terr:. training i in
France people are paid to stay unemployed for very long periods.
],Kf
Mr. Brown:
The system can only work if there is mobility,
flexibility and la~ge transfers. Right now, none of these three
exists. 0
.The President:
There is one thing to look at.
I know the United
states are different than EU member nations, but you would be
interested in how far big states can go in having different
financial policies. New Jersey is an example - - i t proved you
can raise the minimum wage and create more low-wage jobs.
I used
this experience to justify our rc:ising the minimum wage. But
unemployment will go up if the rise is too big. Your
unemployment rate is lower than other Europeans' because of your
f1exible system. -+-er
.
Mr. Brown:
Since they are not required to work, no long-term
unemployed single parents are included in our statistics.
That means unemployment is really closer to 20 percent in some
cases. We have the biggest single-parent population in Europe.
-+-er
The President:
If the culture says it is no longer necessary to
have a marriage to have children, then that means single parents
should have to work. ~
-- End of Conversation --
CONFIDENTIAL
6EGRE"T
SECRET
THE WHITE HOUSE
I.
~~
WASHINGTON
o~
('>0
Ir)ECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE

i iNTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL,
I E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)
MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, document no. 3

DECLASSIFICATION DATE: October 14, 2015
SUBJECT:
Restricted Meeting with British Prime

Minister Tony Blair (U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Samuel R. Berger, Assistant to the President
for National Security Affairs
Affairs, National Security Council
(Notetaker)
Anthony Blair, Prime Minister
Sir John Kerr, Ambassador to the U.S.
John Holmes, Private Secretary to the
Prime Minister
Jonathan Powell, Chief of Staff to the
Prime Minister
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
May 29, 1997, 12:00-12:30 p.m.

No. 10 Downing Street, London
Should we work through our cards?
(U)
The President: If you see me with all the cards they give me,
you know it is going to be ~ long meeting because I have not done
my homework. If I .do it, I reduce it to this one card.
(U)
With regard to Northern Ireland, ,I would like to tell you that
when it comes time that you think it would be helpful for us to
say something about a cease-fire or decommissioning, let me know.
We may have to wait for the Irish election. I have some pull and
can call in chits; just let me know. --i-E"t"'
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)( d)
3ECRE'f
Reason: 1.5 (b,l

Declassify On:;
SECRE'l'
SECRET
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I will think about the parade problem.
The
conflict reminds me of the Middle East. Do yuu have a resolution
in mind? ~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
One problem is that the people are farther along
than the leaders.
For people like Sinn Fein and Ian Paisley, the
conflict is their whole life. ~
Ambassador Crowe: At Drumcree, however, all those peace-loving
people went indoors and shut their blinds.
(U)
The President:
Those were the same people in the streets
cheering us -- they need leadership. ~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Some of my rich yuppie friends cancelled trips to
Belfast to play golf. J21
Ambassador Crowe:
The President has been strongly supportive of
investment in Northern Ireland.
K)
SE(gET
6EGf<E~r
SECRET
The President:
You need a place for the politicians to go to be
relevant.
They have to have a life
"
other than
their ability to stop the process.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
You've got it right with a

guaran ee 0
some connection to Ire:and.
I have listened to them
talk and I think that if there were no political leaders, we
could get the people to agree. -fer
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I

~------------------------~I
Mr. Holmes: /
The President:
Sinn Fein needs to be on board with the substance
of the resolution, whatever the details of the relationship to
Ireland. What is the role for the DUP and Paisley? If we leave
the extremes out, they can undermine the solution.
I was struck
by that when I met Paisley.
I didn't get a word in edgewise for
20 minutes, but I didn't care. ~
Mr. Holmes:
/r~I=E=.=O=.1=3=52=6=,s=e=ct=io=n=1.=4(=b=)(=~~1------------------11
I
The President:
You mean if you give them a meaningful devolved
government? .JB1
Mr. Berger:
We are maintaining contact with the unionists -- I
called Trimble recently. ~
The President:
He is impressive.
Ambassador Crowe: But not at Drumcree. And the SDLP needs Sinn
Fein.in the talks so they cannot criticize the compromises Hume
makes.
(S)
The President:
You know where we are.
can do, let me know at the right time.
If there is anything I
(.e)
Mr. Berger: Mo Mowlam was over last week and we had a great
meeting. .Jce)
The President:
She is good, great on TV. Her happy face
inspires confidence. She seems soiid and not full of herself;
you don't need another person over there posturing like a
peacock.
-\-e1
I will tell her that.

End of Conversation
SECRE'!'
CmJFI DEN''fIAL
CONfiDENTIAL
'/
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASH INGTON

E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)
MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, document no. 4

SUBJECT:
PARTICIPANTS:
Luncheon with British Prime Minister Blair

(U)
The President
Samuel R. Berger, Assistant to the
John Podesta, Deputy Chief of Staff
Daniel Tarullo, Head of the National
Economic Council
James Steincerg, Deputy Assistant to the
E. Anthony Wayne, Deputy Assistant
Secretary of State for European and
Canadian Affairs
Affairs, ~ational Security Council
(Notetaker)
Sir John Kerr, Ambassador to the U.S.
Alistair Darling, Chief Secretary, Treasury
Colin Budd, Cabinet Office
Alex Allan, Principal Private Secretary
to the Prime Minister
Jonathan Powell, Chief of Staff
Philip Barton, Assistant Private Secretary
for the Prime Minister
John Holmes, Private Secretary for Overseas
Affairs
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
May 29, 1997, 12:30-3 p.m.

No. 10 Downing Street, London
The President:
We should talk about NATO.
I have the impression
that most leaders in Paris are in favor of a group of five,
adding Romania and Slovenia to the other three. We have
reservations about that.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I
COHFIDEN'fIAL
Reason:
1.S(b)i
Declass:lfy On: ,:
CONFIDENTIAL
2
. COHFI DEN'fIJltL
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
~I Our first concern is that the first shall not be the

last -- we have said that all along.
That is why we need
aggressively to build on PFP for future members.
If there are
five, no one will believe in a second round and we will be under
greater pressure to reassure them publicly.
This could lead
Russia to think tha~ we are committed to Baltic membership.
We
don't want any grey zones, but the open door must be credible.
That may not be as satisfying, but it may be the proper thing to
do. Ael
L -______
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
(1) I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
Ambassador Kerr:
Mr. Berger:
They're shifting because of Slovenia and because
they are grateful for Romania's deal with Hungary. ~
The President:
I see Kohl next week; he should know where you
are on this.
JkM
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
Mr. Berger:
We need to be reassuring and embracing in our
language; perhaps not using the example of waiting room. ~
Mr. Berger:
E.O. 13526, section 1.
One way is to emphasize self-selection.
The President:
We are working on it and thinking of the package
we can put forward.
Bill just whispered, "Are Romania and
Slovenia ready? This is a military alliance." ~
Ambassador Crowe:
context. J.e1
You need to make the judgment in the military
The President:
We have a disagreement with our partners on the
continent but I am sure a larger group would turn up the heat on
the Baltic issue and we are not prepared to handle that yet.
This is a problem that needs time to sort itself out; we need to
give it a few years.
If you give it away now, you have nothing
to fill the time. ~
CONFIDENTIAL
CONFiDENTIAL
,CONFIDENTIAL

E.O, 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
Mr, Holmes:
The President:
Mr. Holmes:
What argument did they make?
'l'hat they are not ready.
j)21
Ambassador. Kerr:
E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d)
The President:
I would have thought that, but the republican
caucus actually favors letting in more countries.
I don't want
to misrepresent the Hill; I think the republicans will follow
their leadership on this. Some are against enlargement because
of the fear of provoking a nationalist response in Russia -- that
is a silly argument. )ef
Prime Minister Blair: Yes.
Je1
Mr. Berger:
New polling data shows that NATO is just not a
grass-roots issue in Russia.
ket
they are just being
Prime Minister Blair: What a surprise
normal and caring more about the economy. --+er
The President:
What do you think about the Iranian election?
.(..e')
Ambassador Kerr:
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
Mr. Budd:
The President:
That is where we are. We hope things will get
better.
It concerns me that we are getting to the point that
there are no Western-educated politicians in the government.
~
CONFIDEH'I'IAL
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
CONFI WENTIAL
_ CONFIDENTIAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
We have made an attempt to address this within
NATO -- the European Security and Defense Identity. Except for
AFSOUTH we are happy with that. And we are trying to work out
AFSOUTH. -ter
On the Middle East, Saddam has literally violated the no-fly
zone. We would be stupid to take action against those flights
that 99 percent of the world think are okay. But the UN
resolutions- are at stake; we have to do something about his
challenge of the no-fly zone. Our idea is that he can have as
many humanitarian flights as he wants but we need to-have advance
notice.
The only problem is that if you tell him that and he
does not comply, you have to respond.
That puts a burden on us.
But if we believe in the UN resolutions, it is the best we can
do. ....(..G1Ambassador Crowe:
Shoot them down?
P?i
The President: No. We want to avoid deaths and especially

deaths of civilians.
I don't want to comment because we have not
,defined it yet.
We will get credit with world opinion for
permitting humanitarian flights and it is reasonable to demand
notification. ~
Prime
Ambassador Kerr:
Mr. Berger:
There has been a refinement in our thinking. A
conversation between our two militaries produced a range of
options. -tet
The PresideDt:
This is not a question cf how to win, but how to
avoid a loss.
There is no way to win with world public opinion
but we are not prepared to let Saddam walk away from the
resolutions. We are not looking for a victory; this is not like
our response to the attempt on President Bush's life. There is a
sanctions committee in the UN but we don't trust them.
We don't
want him to think he can sucker punch us into shooting down
innocent civilians. ~
:'
CONFIDENTIAL
. CONFIDENTIAL
Mr. Holmes.:
Prime Minister
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
Mr. Budd:
Mr. Berger:
If he knocks and a door opens, he will knock again
next time . .~
The President:
together. ::fC)
Whatever we do, even if it is less, we must do it
Ambassador Crowe:
I wonder what his lawyers are telling him?
fof'
The President:
I concur with your analysis on Iran.
It is
imperative we stay together.
I want to discuss it on its merits,
not in terms of money. Others are saying that all is well as
long as they don't blow up our people, and we can all make money.
But we have a larger responsibility. You know about terrorism
because of the IRA. ~
I agree.
We need to hold firm.
The President:
In terms of yesterday's NATO conference, there is
less than meets the eye.
I think what we are really doing is
reorganizing ourselves to face the new challenges, getting rid of
the intellectual clutter to free ourselves for the future.
If
you believe we need to combat proliferation, ethnic hatred and
terrorism and that we need a common policy on the environment,
then we have to be organized to deal with these transnational
problems. The world looks to us to be honest about these
problemsi we may not always be right but we have to be honest.
The pressure to go for the commercial benefits is enormous. )1
The President:
Can we discuss China and Hong Kong?
We are with you oh that.

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
COWFIPEWTIAL
CONFI DEH'fIAL
The President:
Under the terms of the 1984 agreement, the UK and
China made a deal that you asked us to endorse.
Have you heard about this

movie that is to released on July I? It is the story of how the
British got Hong Kongi you do not come off well. They are doing
what we did in Germany after the war, in reverse.
That won't
make much difference since Hong Kong is one of the most open
places in the world, but it is a metaphor for how they are going
to play it. ;ef
We want to be helpful.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
We have more leverage with Russia because of IFI programs

and denuclearization funding. We have some leverage with China
through the WTO, but Hong Kong is unique and we will support you.
)e(

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
Mr. Berger:
It would be useful to come up with agreed benchmarks
such as early elections under fair conditions, civil liberties.
If we are all sending the same message, it will be more
effective. We are not there yet. ~
Prime Minister Bla'
Mr. Steinberg:
Mr. Holmes:
COHFIDEN'l'IAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
It depends what that means.

E.O.13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
)I)
.CONFIDE~TTIAL
The President: We will be doing our best to stick with you -you have a big dog in this hunt.
jZ(
Ambassador Crowe:
The President:
once.
(U)
That is an Arkansas expression.
They hunt with dogs here too;
(U)
I went beagling

E.O. 13526, section 1A(b)(d)
The President:
Red Army. ....ke1'"
So our officials will be sitting in front of the
Mr. Holmes:
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
We don't want to put them in a box publicly, but
privately we can try to persuade them. ~
Mr. Berger:
There will be 25,000 reporters there.
The danger is
that you set the bar too high with a press that wants a
confrontation, as do some people in Hong Kong.
If our benchmarks
are not clear, we could be drawn into a confrontation. +eJ
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
The press tried to get me to comment yesterday.
I ducked the question because it is not our business.
I know
Kohl and Chirac are for it.
I
CONFIDEN'f'IAL
COHFI DEN'!' IM
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
But it
e good to un erstan w at t e consequences and
alternatives are.
It is usually discussed at the theological
level rath~~than in practical terms.
That is what I would want
to know.
~)
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
Mr. Tarullo:
It is difficult for us to say anything because they
think we are concerned about the euro displacing the dollar as a
reserve currency. ~
The President:
If it leads to lower growth, it will not be good
for us or the rest of the world. At Denver we are going to talk
about an Africa initiative; but if we, you and Japan don't have
economic growth, we cannot help Latin America or Africa.
Your position is principled; the Tories' is ideological. Yours
is the best way to go forward since the theological arguments are
hard to understand. ).R1
Mr. Alan: What is lacking is a strategy for job creation and
structural adjustment. ~
The President:
Our labor ministers held a conference in Detroit,
but it didn't accomplish much because of economic conditions.
Delors put out a white paper at the time but nothing happened.
I
think we should acknowledge we tried it a few years ago; it is a
grea t idea.
(,e')
I'd like you to come to Washington soon on an official visit.
(U)
York.
(U)
I'd like to as long as I can visit New
The President: You can. You know I ~m giving the commencement

speech at Chelsea's school. Dan Tarullo's daughter goes there
too; Chelsea says she is frighteningly smart but still nice.
Seniors finish a month early so they can do a special project.
Chelsea is going to be a doctor so she is at Georgetown Hospital
with a surgeon.
She watched a heart valve implant operation and
said it was too interesting to be queasy about the sight of
blood.
(U)
Dan, what is your daughter's project?
(U)
Mr. Tarullo:
She is teaching English, but I think she is going
to be a psychologist.
(U)
CONFIDENTIAL
c;mIFIDEN1'I}'rL
Ambassador Kerr:
It is amazing the extent to which his daughter
has a private life.
(U)
The President:
The press has been wonderful in honoring the
request Hillary and I made to them, with one or two exceptions.
Children deserve a chance to grew up in private.
I think the
press respected this because we did not put Chelsea in the
poli tical spotlight.
(U)
We will see each other in Denver. We are staying at an old
cowboy hotel.
Do you know where you are staying?
(U)
I am not sure.
(U)
The President:
We are arranging a dinner at a place called The
Fort that specializes in buffalo meat, which is low fat.
When I
had lunch with Boris, he served roast pig and told me real men
hack off the ears and eat them. And once he served 24 courses,
including moose lips.
(U)
conference.
(U)
It is time to get ready for the press

End of Conversation
CONFIDEN'fIAL
CONFIDENTIAL
CONFIDEN'l'IAL
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASH I NGTON

E.O.13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)
MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION

SUBJECT:
Telcon with Bricish Prime Minister Blair (U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers:
John Smith, Tony Campanile,
Lyle Harrison, Marc Koehler, Marianna
Papadimitriou and Mary Ann Peters
DATEr TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
June lOr 1997, 1458-1517

The Oval Office
Hello?
(U)
Hello.
The President:
(U)
Tony?
Bill?
The President:
(U)
Fine.
(U)
How are you?
Prime Minister Blair: Thanks very much

through.
I 'ust want a uick word with
for comin
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
What can I do to help?

COHFI DBNTIl'rL
Reason:
1. 5 (b)/
Declassify on: ;
(U)
(U)
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
CONFIDENTIAL
GOHFIDE~J'I'IAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I'll be happy to do that.
immediately.
~
That's great
We'll contact them
The President:
This is crazy.
I don't know why they're doing
this now, when you're trying to put all this together. ~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Yes, I agree with that. We'll get in touch with
them today and convey this in the strongest possible terms.
If
they are thinking about proceeding like this while you are
working in good faith, it makes no sense, it's crazy. +&r
That's what I think.

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I've got it and I'll get on it.
doing otherwise? ~
How are you

Fine. There are pretty turbulent waters
here about European monetary union, with Jospin's victory.
~
The President:
It might give you a little more room, though.
+G+Prime Minister Blair:
Yeah, maybe it will give me more room.
>:'0. 13526,
~,ti'n
1.4(b)(d)
_.:Ai:':-"'_h~;';'"\.....--':;""':;---:...o::--:.--~--~-~...
cmlFIDEN'FIAL
n'
-'1'
"'..
-,_
,~
J-_~. '7"'~;'
":'
COHFIDEN'PIAL
CONFlfJENllAL
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I thought the Econoflist this week had some
interesting suggestions on how to proceed with the currency but
change some of the Maastricht requirements.
They argue that
France cannot make it anyway with 12 percent unemployment; but
they acknowledge that the Bundesbank would not agree to such
changes.
The President:
It's just pretty hard to ask a Socialist
government -- it was hard to ask Chirac's government -- to do
nothing except cut spending when you have 13 percent
unemployment.
~
Prime Minister Blair: Absolutely right, and if you're doing it
while kee
the franc hi h
ou're reall
the
econom .
The President:
Well, I don't believe they can solve their
economic and unemployment problems through the budget anyway.
They need structural reform. Maybe Socialist governments can
actually do this better than Conservative governments. ~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
COHFIDEN'PIAL
CONFJ DENTIAL
CONF IDEN'PIAL
The President:
Is he coming to Denver.or not?
He must be?
(U)
(U)
The President: Well the way their constitution works, Chirac has
foreign policy and he has economic policy, so they normally bot~
come.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: Well, I suppose he will, won't he?
should be interesting. Have you met him?
It
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I

The President:
there? :Jef
"You guys have to help me."
Tell me who was
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The president: Well I'm looking forward to it.

I'm glad to see
the debate being carried on our side of the field, but there
could be a huge backlash if the left fails to deliver.
Ultimately, in a democracy the poor rely upon the social judgment
of the middle class. ~
that we will fail.
Absolutelyri ht.
There's a real risk
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I

The President:
That nearly happened to us, you know, when the
Congress in '94 didn't pass my plan.
I fended it off and we now
have agreement in the budget to repair it.
I think we saved it,
but you don't want to miss those chances when they come along.
~
CONFI DEN1'IPrL
CONFiDENTIAL
CONFIDEN''fH\:L
Prime Minister Blair: Absolutely right, there's a huge mood of

uncertainty in Europe at the moment.
It's almost impossible to
overstate it. %
The President: Well, they keep trying to draw me into
discussions on details and I keep trying to stay out of it.
)Q1

I think where you could have an impact is
that people look across the Atlantic, they see the American
economy and see that it works. ~
The President: What I try to do is to avoid getting drawn into
discussions of issues such as:
"If the European currency is
delayed, does that mean it is dead. N What I need to do is stay
'on my general theme that you can't create jobs without reform,
but you don't have to cut out the social safety net.
That is
what your election showed. ~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I think they are afraid that global corporations
and global money movers will take away the capacity of the
nation-state to preserve the social contract, but I don't think
that's true.
There was a fascinating piece in the Economist on
how the Czech experiment failed.
The market outran the capacity
of the regulators and they have negative growth now. You ought
to have somebody pull that for you, just because it makes the
case for reform without the Thatcher/Reagan idea of getting rid
of government. A little article on how the Czech economy, the
jewel of the post-communist period, could be in all this trouble
ironically because there was not enough regulation.
l-e1
The President:
The Economist?
(U)
Not in this edition, but in the last one.
(U)

I will look for it. We've got to provide
people with a way through this problem, so it's not a choice
between dismantlement and corporatism. This is a very European
problem, born out of the ideological clash between socialism and
capitalism . . You do not have it in the same way in the United
States.
(U)
CON"PI DEW!' IAL
LUf'U /BENT/At
CONPIDEN'fIAL
The President:
The problem here is that because union membership
is declining, even if you have more jobs, people worry that
their families are vulnerable, especially because there is no
universal h.ealth care. But without growth and lower unemployment
it's hard to get these things done.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: Yes, that's right. You could have a more"
universal system of health care in your country without wrecking
the system.
(U)
The President:
Of course we could. We'd save money. But we're
going to take another pop at it this time, at least for the
children. Anyway, I can't wait to see you in Denver and I'll
call the appropriate people and send the message publicly and
privately.
kef
Prime Minister Blair: That would be very kind, Bill; it would
really help.
It will be great to see you in Denver.
(U)
The President:
Have you talked Bertie Ahern?

The President:
Yes.
kef
Do you think he'll be Okay?
Yes, I like him,
Y21
-1
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Yes.
I
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
We have to have a
unified position or it doesn't mean a thing. So I'll stick with
you as far as I can and see you in Denver. ~
OK, Bill, many, many thanks indeed.
(U)"
The President:" Once again, give my best to your wi fe. We had a

great time, and let's follow up on that project about philosophy.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: Yes, we are; it was great to see you and
Hillary. One of my few moments of real enjoyment.
(U)
The President: Well, you get to be a real person.
Denver. Bye-bye.
(U)
COHFIDEN'I'IM
See you in
Luhl
CONFIDEWPIAL
Prime Minister Blair;
uJLJ'ijj iHL
7
See you in Denver.

End of Conversation
CONFIDENTIAL
Bye-bye.
(U)
CONFIDENTIAL
COHFI DEN'fIAL
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)
IS CAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, document no. 6
DECLASSIFICATION DATE: October 14,2015

SUBJECT:
Telcon with British Prime Minister Tony

Blair
(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
-
The President
Prime Minister, Tony Blair
Notetakers: Doug Mueller, Wylma Robinson,
Pat O'Shaughnessy, Bonnie Glick
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
July 27, 1997, 12:41 - 1:02 p.m. EDT

Private Residence, Los Angeles, California
Tony?

The President:
(U)
Hi, Bill.
How are you?
Very well, indeed.
(U)
(U)

I am sitting here outside Chequers having
a cup of tea with a friend of yours, Steven Spielberg.
(U)
The President: Steven Spielberg? You are? You tell Mr.
Spielberg that you may be drinking tea with him, but I am here
on the beach in Santa Monica having coffee with Ron Burkle,
which shows California has more influence than either the
British or the U.S. Government.
(U)
You are?
(U)
The President:
Yes.
I am looking at people skateboarding at
the beautiful beaches of Santa Monica.
(U)
then?
(U)
CONFIl3EH'FIAL
Reason: 1.5(b)
Declassify On:
You lucky man.
This is your vacation,
CONFIDENTIAL
CONPIDEN'PIl's:L
The President: No, no.

I am out here working, but it is a
Sunday morning and you wanted to talk. And Ron Burkle is a
friend of mine who bought a house very close to the hotel where
I was last night.
I interrupted coffee to speak with you.
Congratulations again on the ceasefire. I think we have a
chance now.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: Yes, we have a chance now.
to fill ou in on that.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Is there anything we can do to help you with
Trimble? Probably not. kef
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
one more time.
You know that is a well I can only go back to

I am certainly willing to try to do that though.
).e"r
The President:
I could try to come on over to see you or
something. -+e1
cmlFI DEN'E' L"rL
CONFIDEN'PIAL
CONFIOENTIAL
3
Prime Minister Blair: What I think, the reason why I think

there is some hope in the situation is that the ordinary people
in Northern Ireland are desperate for peace. ~
The President:
Oh God yes. This is the place in the world
where there is the largest disconnect between the leaders and
what the ordinary people want. Jer
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President: And we will do that.

I got your letter on the
Middle East and I basically agree with the letter.
I E.O. 13526, section l.4(d)
And I am
really glad you are going to become EU president in January
because my sense is that we can get some grudging progress for
CONFIDEN'PIAL
CONFIDENTIAL
4
CONFIDEN'l'IAL
the rest of the year, and if there is going to be a

breakthrough, then we will need everyone's help to close next
year. I don't think the present situation can be maintained.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
(JZ)
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The_President:
point.
Well, first of all, a flashpoint or meltdown
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4( d)
That's right.
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
I'll give you an example, here you are trying to do this

Northern Ireland and one day the IRA has the whole thing in its
power and the next day, Paisley does.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
CONFIDENTIAL
COHFIDEN'fIAL
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

That may be somet lng you cou
the Europeans examine -- because it is very important -you want to provide economic assistance to Jordan. With
parliamentary elections coming, we would be in a tough situation
without any real power if the people he is backing, who have
stable relations with Israel, lose ground because of economic
difficulties. ~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
One of the things that would help is to raise
the economic fortune of the Palestinians.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

there.
(U)
Hello?
You are getting a bit faint
The President:
I know that you can't come to us on September 9
because of the Scottish devolution and 13-15 doesn't work for
CGHFIDEN'fIl's:L
CONFIDEN'f'IAL
,
CONFIDENTIAL
6
.'
me, but we need to set up some time.
we find the time.
(V)
We will keep working till
September is really difficult?
The President:
Just those two days for me.
out another time.
(V)
(V)
I think I can work

I think it probably is a bit difficult
for me because if something starts to go wrong.
(V)
The President:
How are the English reacting?
pretty well? jQ1
Is it going down
It is okay for the minute.

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President: Are most of the Scots in the Westminster

parliament in your party? .J.0r
We are going to give up a few seats.
)1
The President:
You may have some to spare now, but you can
never tell what you'll need in five years.
JK)
Prime Minister Blair: However, it has not always been like this
in Scotland.
In the 50's it was mostly Tory. What I am trying
to do is build ,new bases of support, one of the most difficult
things to do.
There are two referendums, one in Scotland and
one in Wales.
yM
The President:
So you stay there and handle it. Your
preference is to get the visit done in the month of September.
(V)
I think so.
(V)
The President:
That is my strong preference.
people and we'll get it done.
(V)
I will talk to my
Prime Minister Blair: Let us do that, Bill, and I also had a

note from Hillary about the other thing we talked about and we
will work on that. You have a good time in Santa Monica.
(V)
CONFI DEH'fIAL
CONFIDENTIAL
cown DEl?ITIAL
The President:
Tell Steven Spielberg I hate coming all the way
out here and not get to see him because he is hanging out in
Chequers.
(U)
I will certainly.
(U)
The President:
I always suspected that beneath that ruffled,
intelle-ctual demeanor was a real Tory aristocrat working.
(UrPrime Minister Blair:
He is out here making a movie.
(U)
The President:
I know.
I told you before that he really wants
to help rebuild the movie industry in Great Britain because he
is so grateful for its influence. He got a lot of- input from
early Br{tish film makers.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: Lots of possibilities here, but also
important to them that the U.S. and the British work closely,
especially because some of the other countries and some of the
stuff from the EU is not very sensible. The French and the
Italians have weird rules and prescriptions on film making.
It
would help if we can get some decent British movies.
(U)
The President:
You can do it.

The President:
Bye.
Tell him I said hello.
All the best.
We'll be in touch.
(U)
Bye.
(U)
End of Conversation
cown DEWT Il'.L
(U)
(U)
CONFIDENTIAL
COHFI DEN'f' IAL
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASH J NGTON

SUBJECT:
British Prime Minister Tony Blair
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
(U)
Notetakers: Doug Mueller, Bonnie Glick,

Sean Rice and Larry Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
September I, 1997, 11:29 - 11:54 a.m.

Martha's Vineyard
Tony?

grim business.
(U)
(U)
Hi, Bill.
It's a grim business, a very
The President:
It's awful, it's really awful. We're up here on
Martha's Vineyard vacationing, and we're with a lot of people
who knew her.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: We saw her again just weeks ago when we
hosted her for lunch with Prince William, he's a great kid. ~
The President:
Yeah, I worry a lot about those kids now.
le1
Prime Minister Blair: She was such a rock of stability in the

sense she connected them with the outside world. The eldest
boy, William, is quite like her in a way, he is very "feet on
the ground," he does things kids his age do. j..Q-t'
The President: Well, I just feel so bad for her.
basically getting a hold of her life.
~
She was just

Thanks for your telegram yesterday and
your kind words.
The problem was the way she lived, in a press
frenzy.
It's impossible to contemplate how intrusive it was,
into every single aspect of her life. The last time I spoke
COMFI DEH'f' IAL

Reason: 1.5(d)
Declassify On:
CONFIPENTfAL
CONFI DEN'FIAL
with her, she said that were it not for the boys, she'd be off
the board.
The country is stunned.
(.et'
The President:
They liked her a lot, didn't they.

She was not the royal family but .she was
liked by ordinary people, it gave her problems with the royal
establishment.
{.Q1"
The President: Well, I know it's a difficult time for you.
just wanted to let you know I was thinking of you.
yx
Prime Hinister Blair:

I will personally miss her, it's like a
She was a star for them.
j..e}
star falling.
The President:
What do they know? Is the British security
guard who was with her still alive?
Prime Minister Blair: Yes, he is. And he may be able to offer

some more information. There has been some talk this afternoon.
They went to the hotel and thought they would be left alone.
The Embassy and the French government did not know they were
there. The media turned up, SQ they decided to go to dinner
then on to one of al-Fayed's houses. When they got to their
car, it did not start. They called someone from the hotel and
the hotel provided a car and driver. Apparently he'd been
drinking. yc)
The President:
That's what I was afraid of. Those guys were
chasing them? Jet
Jumped on them as they left the hotel,
yet I can't believe some of the reports of how fast they were
going though.
It's just not possible they were going 100 mph
They wouldn't have to be going that fast
I mean, I know Paris.
in those tunnels, though. They must have hit a rim in the road
and turned over and smashed into a wall.
j..e}
The President:
It's a sad thing, I tell you.
Prime Minister Blair: Yes, someone we knew and liked. She had
a remarkable gift. She was beginning to get her life together.
j..e}
The President:
Yes, Hillary had a nice visit with her a few
weeks ago when she was here. We liked her a lot.
I just think
that anything you can do for those boys, I don't know how
CONFIDEN'fIl'rL
........ ~,i". -.
taNfl DtNTIAt~~;
~~~TON
LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY ;'i;
..
"-~..
CONFIDENTIAL
3
CONFIDEN'fIAL
~~____~~I_E_.~O~._13_5_2~6~,s~e~ct_io_n__1._4(~d~)~____~~~__~I in a situation like

this, about the challenges they will face.
over.
I'll try to keep in touch and have them
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
~I
______________
What about her sisters? What are they like?

~I~E=.O==.1=3=52=6~,s=ec=ti=on==1.4d(~d)~__________________~I jQ1
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
I E.O.13526, section 1.4(d)
The President:
I E.O.13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
E.O.13526, section 1.4(d)
Hillary and I just wanted to tell you all we were thinking of
you. .-keI
Prime Minister Blair: Your words yesterday were greatly
appreciated.
Thank you. So you are on holiday now?
(U)
The President:
I'm having a good holiday.
It's the longest
vacation we have had in ten years. We're getting ready to send
Chelsea: off to university.
(U)
Are you looking forward to that?
(U)
The President: She is, but that's all part of it, it's what you
raise them for.
(U)
cmlFIDENTIAL
CONFIDENTIAL
CONFI DEN'fIAL

there, then?
(U)
You're going straight to California from
The president: No, we have one more week here, then we go back
to Washington for a week to ten days, then we will go to
California to take her out there.
(U)
You're doing well in Northern Ireland, no?
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
tha t . -+-c+-
The Sinn Fein shouldn't have a problem with

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
circumstances.
He's actually been good about this, under the

~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Do you think there is anything we can do to
Trimble to stroke him? ~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
cm~PIDEH'3'IM
f~"~' --'OONF!HENTlAE~->
'~L~TON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY
--.-:----,-~.-,
-.'
"t
-<
CONF1BENTfAt
CONn DEHT lAL
The President:
I think they're worried about being rendered
irrelevant in 20 years, given the way the demographics are
going, it's better to make a deal now rather than later. ~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
If you look at it, their popular majority is
eroding over time with the increasing birth rates, so now is the
time.
You'll have to come up with some sort of creative dual
relationship.
kef
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
That's consistent with what you are doing in
Scotland and Wales, anyway. ~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The.President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
No one wants to get up and put a sandwich in a
lunch tin to go to the factory if you have this going on.
~
with you?
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
So all is well
You're getting re-engaged in the Middle East? kef
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
CONFl DEHT L'\L
CONFIDENHAL
CONFIDENTlhL
We're in a
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
difficult position'L-~.~==================______~ but we don't
want to be someone on the outside just seen as complaining.
We've got a good set of ideas. ~
What's your actual estimate?
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
Now
progress.
or some
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
CO}IFIDJ1::HTIAL
CONFIDENTIAL
CONFIUENTfAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4( d)
Things are getting a little better in Bosnia. Plavsic is

showing some get up and go. You've got a decision coming your
way that we can't discuss on this line, but I think things are
going in -the right direction over the last weeks, no the last
couple of months, after a bad year.
I feel good about this.
We've got a shot to move it forward.
~
The President:
to you today.
Tell Cherie I said hello.
I just wanted to talk
(U)

calling about Diana.
The President:
Give our love to Hillary.

(U)
Take care, friend.
Goodbye Bill.
Bye.
(U)
All the best.
End of Conversation --
COHFIDEN'PIAL
Thanks for
(U)
THE WHITE HOUSE

E.O.13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)

SUBJECT:

Blair
(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Tony Blair
Notetakers: Sean Rice, Larry Wright, Tom
Crowell, James Smith, Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
October 9, 1997, 9:18 - 9:40 a.m. EDT

The Oval Office
Hi, Tony.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: Hi, Bill. How are you? I am in good

form; I just got my party conference out of the way.
(U)
The President:
here.
(U)
It went great, didn't it?
It got great press
Prime Minister Blair: Well, I feel like a man who is facing an

inevitable collapse, but in good shape, actually. How are you?
(U)
The President:
I'm doing great, thanks.
(U)

I saw a great picture of you and Hillary
taking Chelsea to Stanford.
It was marvelous.
(U)
The President:
Well, it looked better than it felt.
(U)
It looks like she's having a good time.
(U)
The President: She's very happy. She called last night and we
had a good talk.
It's a three-hour difference, so she always
calls late, but she knows I'm always up late. She had her first
:'lECRE't'
Reason:
1.5{b;d)
Declassify On';
....
___ .__ c- . --F--;"
l0~::_
Yl
. ~.::,~:~~ Y:::.:(_L~;J-,.>~i
.sECRET
chemistry test.
(U)

Look, Bill, the reason I called was to
mention
couple of things:
I went to Moscow early in the week,
and also I have some thoughts on Northern Ireland. ~
The President:
Did he give any hint of whether he would run for
another term? ~
E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)( d)
The President:
Yeah.
(U)

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
SECRET
bt:br"{c i
SECRE'f'
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President: We will do that.

I was very encouraged by my
visit with Trimble, he's trying to be a part of this, more
upbeat than in the past. ~
Prime-Minister Blair:
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Did Yeltsin mention the START II treaty?
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
How about Iran?
+&t
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I believe that a lot of things do happen without
his knowledge.
When they changed their economy, they did not
have the intermediate controls in place that a normal economy
has. We have a process going with the Vice President,
Chernomyrdin, Wisner and Koptev, that I think will work. They
say they're cracking down, but he is careful about what he says
in public, maybe because he doesn't want to be seen to be
SECRE'f
3ECREf
dancing to our tune.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President: Oh God, I'm really worried about it.

so strongly opposed to any of that stuff that I'm
about how they'd react to it.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)

The President: Let me ask you one other thing. I appreciate
your help in keeping the issue over the French oil company Total
from becoming a bigger problem. We need to work the twin tracks
of an EU waiver and the Total-Gazprom case. I know that a lot
of Europeans don't agree with us, but I'm still concerned about
Iran becoming an industrial and military giant, given their
philosophy. I'm hoping that the new leadership in time will
have enough influence to change things, but there are no
indications of this yet. ~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President: I'd appreciate anything you can do to help.

don't want to get crossways with the French and EU. ~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
SECRET
---~
":
SECRET
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
'---_--'I yJ
The President:
The Iranians -- and I sometimes think the
Chinese ar.ethis way, too -- think we're so motivated by money
that we'll eventually cave in.
~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
to do. .k51.
It took a long time, but it was the right thing

Yes.
So, we're with you on that
entirely.
People are very supportive of your efforts to bring
people around on the environmental issue. ~
The President:
The problem is, the u.s. Senate won't ratify
anything I sign. They're in the Dark Ages on this -- mostly the
Republicans, but Democrats, too.
They're being told against all
evidence that you can't do this without wrecking the economy.
We had a big conference here this week with energy experts,
people who are making a living implementing changes. But with
everything going on in Washington, it didn't break through as
I'd hoped.
It may have moved things a little.
I'm chipping
away, trying to do everything I can to get us in decent shape,
and the Japanese are trying to get us together.
+er
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The president:
One thing we ought to do is to some way get the
developing countries involved in a regime -- where they don't
have the same controls as we -- to develop an alternate energy
future.
There are things they can do now that won't hamper
growth, but they can do it now so that when they become
developed, they'll already have a different energy structure.
The trick is to get them involved without their thinking that
we're trying to choke off their growth; we need their growth for
our own sake. ~
I agree with that totall
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I

SECRET
SECRE'f
The President: We need to find some formula to participate.

If
we gamble and take this on, but by the time you get halfway
through the. century, we're no better because we've been replaced
by China and India, still worse off, nothing has happened to
lower the global temperature. Get them to talk to us, find a
formula to benefit from, build a different energy structure.
The Indians are open, they're doing some big alternative
projects, more open than the Chinese. China is giving us grief
about criticism of their big Three Gorges hydropower project,
which is their biggest greenhouse gas project. Because it will
displace a million people and change the ecosystem, all the
environmentalists who are fighting global warming are fighting
the dam. Biggest dilemma. ~
.
I a ree with the same basic
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Yes, we will.
Well, carry
Thank you for calling.
(U)

I'm looking forward to seeing Hillary
when she is here. Everything ok with you?
(U)
The President:
Great.
She is thrilled, looking forward to it,
and we are working on a time for you to come here.
(U)
The President:
Thanks.
It will be great to see you.

Bye.
Bye.
(U)
(U)
End of Conversation
SECRE'l'
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:

Blair
(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Cindy Lawrence, Peter Huggins,
Lyle Harrison, James Smith, Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
October 22, 1997, 3:53-4:00 p.m. EDT

The Oval Office
Hello?

The President:
(U)
Hi, Bill.
Hey, Tony.
(U)
(U)
How's it going?
(U)
The President:
The speech went over pretty well, and we've
gotten some reasonable press. Some environmental groups are
pretty positive, some said we should have tighter deadlines.
We've gotten more business support than I thought, but the
traditional industries have dumped on it. The best we can hope
for right now.
I tried to leave open the language on developing
nations.
I was pretty explicit about the kind of joint projects
I think we ought to have, but using the language you gave me, I
was general on it. ~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
CO~TnDENTIl'rL
Classified by:
Glyn T. Davies
Reason:
1.5(b,d)
Declassify On:
lCJA,>~,3j.9.ki;.r'. .--..
- - -- --.~'~;
te~N LIBRARY PHO~OCOPYl
CON'PIDEN'I'IAL
The President:
here. )J21
Well, I don't know.
We'll have to see how we do
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Do you know when he'll be here?

think.
+et
The President:
I'm not sure; in the next few days, I
Have him check in with Sandy Berger.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
do. )Cl
Good, we will work with John and see what we can
CONPIDEN'l'IAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b )( d)
COHPIBENl'IAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President: Well, I'm really encouraged.

I guess you know
this, we had a plane crash over here and a British pilot was
killed. An F-16 and a T-38 were on a photo chase mission and
collided over Edwards Air Force Base. There was an American
pilot, but there was also a British pilot, Flight Lieutenant
Leigh Alexander Fox. His wife is there with him at Edwards, and
it is just awful. No one has figured out how it happened.
Somehow the F-16 was able to land, but the pilots of the T-38
ejected. Both were found dead.
I'll send you the information
on it. ~
-
Thanks, Bill.
The President: We will work on this other thing and see John
Prescott when he gets here. Thanks for working with me on this,
man.
(~
The President:
Not at all.
OK, bye.
I'll be in touch.
(U)
Alright, Bill, speak to you soon.

CONFIDENTIAL
(U)
(U)
CONFIDEH'l'IAL
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
[1
'.".
10

SUBJECT:
Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Cindy Lawrence, David Higgins,
Anthony Campanella, Peter Huggins, James
Smith, Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
October 21, 1997,

The Oval Office
Hey,
~Jny.
3:23~3:32
p.m. EDT
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: Bill, hello. Tony here.

I'm sorrythis
has to be ... I'm in the middle of a big dinner, but I thought I
would come out and speak to you about what we spoke about
yesterday.
(U)
The President:
Okay.
(U)
I am due to speak to Wim Kok tomorrow.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
CONPI DENT IM
Classified by:
Glyn T. Davies
Reas 0 n : 1 . 5 (b ; d) .. "~'h.ft'7.i~;:'-"~"'~-=~~--~"'\:
Declassify On:
J.O/ti~~~ONLIB~RYPH0TOCOPY ,,.,t
%?:;;:;:;~~~:~>,,~.;c ~?\~=;'~~;"k'o-:-;;;:::,:.:'~;~_}_:-:<:. !:~,~r,.~,
COUFIDEN'fL'lL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
On joint implementation?
Yes.
kef
The President:
What 1 can say there is we know we need to leave
some room on language for implementing on how developing
countries would participate, but what about targets? That's
what I am really worried about. ~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
The big problem we have here is that I not only
talked to you, Kohl and Hashimoto -- and I want you to talk to
as many as you can -- but I also briefed Senate leaders this
afternoon and I will brief the House on what I am trying to do.
It will raise more questions than it will answer if I cancel the
speech tomorrow.
I see what you're doing, what you want me to
do:
say what I have to say, but leave as much wiggle room as
possible for you.
jef
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President: Alright, I will work on it as well as I can.

What I want you to do is to welcome the fact that we are clearly
committed to binding targets and clearly committed to
participa}ion.
If you give negotiations a chance, that would
help. fCl
CONFIDEN'fIAL
"
cmrFIDEHTIAL
Very haoov to do that.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)

The President:
I have been saying that for months.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
The problem is I will lose all credibility if I
don't give some target range.
I have to say what our position
will be.
I will try to figure out a way to give it flexibility,
and, on jotnt implementation, I think I can do precisely what
. you want. ...{-et'
The President:
Alright.
Thank you very much.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)

The President: Well, we are going to get out there and do the
best we can.
I will try to leave you as much wiggle room as
possible. ~
The President:
Thanks.

The President:
Alright, Bill.
(U)
(U)
All the very best.
Good-bye.
Good-bye.
cmlFI DENT IAL
'.
cmrn DENT lAL

THE WHITE HOUSE
WAS HI NGTO N

SUBJECT:

Blair (U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Lyle Harrison, J. Laurence
Wright II, Jeff Rathke, Anthony Campanella,
Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
November 15, 1997, 12:40-12:50 p.m. EST

Air Force One, en route Las Vegas to
Sacramento
The President: Hello?

connection.
(U)
Hello?
Hello?
We still don't have a good
(U)
The President:
Tony, can you hear me?
last time.
(U)
No problem.
I'm so serry about the
(U)
The President:
I am on the airplane and usually it works, but
sometimes it doesn't.
Thank you for the letter you sent me
earlier this week.
I want to talk throu h what I am thinkin
about this issue.
CONFI DEN'' L'\L
Classified by:
Reason:
1.5(b
Declassify on:
CONFI DEN'' lAb
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
We all see this looking back through the prism of the

Gulf War, but I want to see this looking forward through the
prism of the future. My goal in this and my definition of
victory, is that this is not a macho contest of getting him to
back down, but to reestablish the inspections regime, which I
think was a smashing success. Jef
Prime Minister Blair: Bill, I am in total agreement with
everything you saif~d~.__~I~w~a~n~t~~y~o~u~t~o__k_n_o~w~w~e~w~i~l~l~s~t~i~c~k~w~i~t~h~y~ou
throughout this.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I think this is very important.
Jacques Chirac
is in Vietnam right now, and I am trying to call him.
I will
talk to Yeltsin and several others over the next two days.
If
there is anything you can do to promote unity among the allies,
I would appreciate it.
I understand their position and the
popular sympathy in the Middle East for the people of Iraq.
I
CONFIDEH'l'IAL
COHFIDEN'fIAL
think we need to get people in your country, in France, and

elsewhere, to see what UNSCOM has destroyed. Tpey need to see
how successful the program of eliminating weap'ons of mass
destruction has been. But there is one thing going on in our
country and also in the UN, and that is that the only time Iraq
gets attention is when Saddam creates a crisis.
If people knew
how many weapons UNSCOM inspectors have exposed, they would
understand why this is so important.
~
E.O, 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
We may need to talk again several times over the
next week, but I won't bother you unless I have to. We will
have to work together on this.
~
Prime Minister Blair: Yes, absolutely right. And the more that
can be done to publicize the work that UNSCOM has done over the
last six years, the better. )e1
The President:
Did you see Netanyahu in London?
Yes, I did.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I know what you mean.

I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

I will sen
meetings, I'm not sure
over the weekend.
+et
Let's
in touch
The President:
Thank you for the meeting and the time you spent
with Hillary.
She just loved it. It looked like it was very
successful.
(U)
CONTIDE1H:' IAL
COHFI DENT IAL
Prime Minister Blair: Yes, it was great.

form. All right then, all the best.
(U)
The President:
Okay, I will talk to you later.
Goodbye.
(U)
End of Conversation
CmJFIDEH'i'IAL
She was in fantastic

Bye-bye.
(U)
CONFTDEN'fIAL
THE WHITE HOUSE
E.O.13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: George Chastain, Tony
Campanella, James Smith, Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
December 9, 1997, 3:19-3:24 p.m. EST

The Map Room
Tony?

The President:
(U)
Hi, Bill.
How are you doing?
(U)
(U)
Fine, how are you?
(U)
The President:
I'm doing great. I know it's later there, but I
wanted to check in with you.
I've been on the phone a lot the
last three or four days.
I think we've made a lot of progress
in Kyoto and John Prescott has been very helpful. We have made
quite an effort to come to a common posjtion, and I've
1""------,
authorized our negotiators to show more flexibility.
to move to the European position on

based on some variation of the proposal
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
They're getting closer.
If we can get all the
big I Annex I countri es to agree, mC' jb<:o~ get the developing
cOtqFI DElffIAL
Reason:
1.S(d)
Declassify On::
LUNtO'!UtN IIAL
CONFIDEN'fI:AL
countries to do more.
They agree on joint implementation
projects, but they're still resisting Article 10~
They seem to
think that we'll coerce them into joining. fe1'
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Really?
in~Jrmation than I do.
You may have more up to date
y6
~
" Prime - Minis"ter Blair: /
'------~/
The President:
That's pretty good.
The President:
Yes, we will get a lot of abuse, and I'm going
to get a lot of abuse at home. And I can't get it ratified
unless we get commitments under Article 10 from developing
countries. ;e1
'-------~/
The President:
I do, too. We have one more day, and maybe we
can talk tomorrow, if we need to. ~
The President:
I agree with that.
I hope it is okay. /
CONFI DEN'3'IAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
CONFIElEH'fIAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Thank you.
This is good news.
l'he President:
Pr~me
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
Me, too . ..J,12r
Minister Blair:
The president:
Fine.
Is everything fine
~ith
you?
IU)
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: Okay, I will try to find out exactly what
is happening on Kyoto and we can talk again tomorrow if there is
(U)
a continuing problem.
The President: Okay, I'll be available.
Goodbye, my friend.
(U)
Okay, goodbye.
(U)
End of Conversation
GONFI DEW!' IJlcL
Let's bring it horne.
,-.--- .. ----... ~---...", ... ,,---,---.---.

E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)
CONFI DEN'f' IAL
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:
PART I C'I PANTS :
The President
Notetakers:
James Smith, George Chastain,
Bonnie Glick, Tom Crowell, Larry Wright,
Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
January 27, 1998, 10:30 - 10:41 a.m. EST

The Oval Office
Hello
Prime Minister Blair: Hello

The President:
Tony!

about you.
How are you doing?

Bill!
I'm doing fine, and I'm thinking
The President:
I'm doing alright, I'm slogging on.
i t ' l l be alright.
I think

I just wanted to say that anything that
You have my 100
you want me to do or say, I'm happy to do.
percent support, and Cherie sends her love.
The President: When you're here, we can talk about it. One or
two things might actually make a difference, and we will talk
about it.
Well, anything you want, we'll do it.
The President:
I wanted to talk to you a little bit about Iraq
and Northern Ireland.
I E.O. 13526, section I.4( d) I
~. ".,
. CONl!"IVI!:M"fIAL
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I really appreciate your saying that.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
. "LiNTON LIBRARY PHOTOCOpy1!
i':~~\:':'~'-'-_.c:-~~::":';;__ .-'~j,/r .
CeNFIBEM!IAL
I agree with that.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I generally agree with that, but there's not a
lot of time left, we waited a long time, until the end of the
Muslim holy period.
~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b )(d)
The President: /
I
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Ok.

this? ...RJ
(U)
What is your sense about the timing of
The President:
It's going to take a couple of weeks to get
together, but not much longer. I would imagine we will be ready
to move with it not.J.,o;.ng__ ii!l.~t~H?-ybll'-r~ner::e~, .~
.
(i~lNTO~ LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY'
CONFIDENTIAL
" :o<~~~._c>_,""c~,-;:,.~~":;_x_
Oil
I'
GONFIDEU'fIAL

it when .. ,(Z) .
So we should have a chance to talk about
The President: We are on an open line, so I will have Sandy get

with your 2eo~le. ~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I
r------------------~
Prime Minister Blair, /
The President:
violence? -tet
Where are we on Northern Ireland, Loyalist
The President:
right? j.e}
So we need to work to keep them from doing that,
The President
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
CO~TFIDENT IAL
The President: Well, I worked like hell on the Middle East last
week, but I didn't get very far. ~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
.
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
Thank you so much for what you said.

little about it when you arrive. ye(
Bill.
The President:
Yes.
Anyway, we're thinking of you,
Take care man.
OK, bye.
End of Conversation
CONFIDEN'fIAL
We'll talk a
SEeKEr
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASH I NGTON
SUBJECT:
Meeting with Tony Blair, Prime Minister of

the United Kingdom
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
The Vice President
Madeleine Albright, Secretary of State
Samuel Berger, Assistant to the President
Donald K. Bandler, Special Assistant to the
President and Senior Director for European
Affairs, Notetaker
Tony Blair, Prime Minister
John Holmes, Principal Private Secretary to
the Prime Minister
John Sawers, Notetaker
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
February 5, 1998, 11:00 a.m.-12:40 p.m.

Oval Office
The President: We're off to a good start, Tony. Shall we turn

to Northern Ireland? How do you see the prospects for peace and
how can I help?
(U)
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)( d)
The President:
I agree, and some others do as well, but not
everyone thinks the ceasefire,w~~~LUL--LUL~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~,
SECRET
Reason:
1.5 (el),
Declassify On:; .

E.O.13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)
SECRE'3'
Samuel Berger: Your efforts to develop the equality agenda seem

to us a key in the effort to keep the Republicans in the
process.
V1
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I agree. We will continue our contacts and
dialogue with Sinn Fein.
I also intend to keep seeing Trimble
and the other key Unionist leaders when they come to town.
Y21
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
Thank you again for your continuing help on this critical

dimension of the peace process.
(U)
The President: Let's turn now to Iraq.
after your trip, Madeleine?
(rU)
Secretary Albright:
The trip worked rather well.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
SECRE'f
What is your assessment
SECRET
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
The President:
I agree that their willingness to open eight
sites is interesting and offers some hope that our approach
could lead to an acceptable formula.' ~.
Samuel Berger:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Yes, that might be acceptable if a few political
people were there in addition to the essential UNSCOM team. ~
Secretary Albright:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4( d)
SECRET
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4( d) I
Samuel Berger:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
The Vice President:

In the meantime, we are getting new
pressures, especially from Capitol Hill, to go after Saddam's
head.
l21
The President:
That's right, Tony, and you just heard our press
making exactly that point. But that approach is nowhere near as
simple as it sounds on the surface. ~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
That's what is working and will work.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4( d)
SECRE'f'
i&f
SECRET
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
SECRE'F
SECRE'l'
Prime Minister Blair: Our public opinion is not the same as

yours, but we are working hard to educate the public. We put
out a white paper yesterday on Iraq's WMD programs.
(U)
The President:
I heard it is an outstanding document.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: We have to educate international opinion

so they see the real threat and choices we face.
(U)
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
, Secretary Albright:
panicky reaction.
If we doa white paper, it could create a

~
The President:
But such a paper could also give us a margin of
maneuver.
It would show how much UNSCOM has accomplished in
reducing his stocks and capacity -- but not his future
potential. .J..!Cf'
Secretary Albright:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4( d)
The President:
AI, what do you think?
The Vice President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4( d)
:3ECRET
(U)
aECRET
E.O. 13526, section lA(b)( d)
SECRET
ISCAP appeal 2013-090 Document 14 Page 8 was not included

as part of the materials in this appeal because it could not be
found.
ECRET
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
EGRET
SECRET
10
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
SECRBT
ggCRE'f
11
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
jEeRET
12
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
';;:::' .-_ft-=;~~-'--, .-~'~--.-.-~""-;\
C~~TON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY:};

'-l.?,:,~ ~ :~;~~.~ -=:.;.:..--:~\.:~-~'~~ ::._ "._' ~~;.:.:"'~.( _____ ~c-..r;--~['1
SECRE'P
13
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
3ECRE'f
SECRET
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I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
End of Conversation
SECRE!
COMPIDEN'I'IAL
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: K.C. Brown, Cindy Lawrence,
Anthony Campanella, Joel Schrader and James
Smith
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
February 16, 1998, 5:14 - 5:41 p.m. EST

Camp David, Maryland
The President:
Hello?
(U)
Hi, Bill.
(U)
The President:
Hey, Tony.
I saw you on the Prime Minister's
question time on C-SPAN yesterday.
(U)
What a treat for you!
(U)
The President:
You got one hateful comment on Iraq from one of
your back benchers, and one hit you on welfare reform.
(U)
It doesn't much matter which row they
come from, they're very often stingers.
(U)
The President:
here.
J..e1
It kind of reminds me of Paul Wellstone over
Prime Minister Blair: Well you know, it is from a very usual

suspect. On Iraq, they are pretty good on the whole so it
doesn't much matter. So you watched? What did you think of my
opposite number there?
~
The President:
I didn't see him. I only saw the last 10
(Z)
minutes of you answering questions.
CONFIDEN'l'IAL
Classified by:
Glyn T. Davies
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/.
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INTONLIBRARYPHOTOCOPY ,);
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CONFIDENTIAL

It is the sort of thing you would do
really well, but frankly I could do without it every Wednesday .
.-ter
The President:
Well they just replayed it on C-SPAN last night.
So, how are you doing? }e1
I'm doing fine.
We have two big problems
to take care of at the moment: Northern Ireland and Iraq.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Yeah. He was very good.
told me to and he was very good. +&r'
I called him after you
E.O. 13526, section lA(b)(d)
The President:
You're doing right. Absolutely right.
I'll
support you on this. Even our Irish guys have been great.
Kennedy and Dodd say there is no choice and they promised to get
in touch with Adams to say [gap]. ~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
CONFIDENTIAL
CONFIDENTIAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President: Let's hope they behave while they are out.
That's the key, isn't it? ~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I agree with that. On Iraq, I just talked to
Sandy Berger. We have an agreed upon proposal to take to Kofi
Annan about how to do this. The Russians keep saying... can you
wait a second? ~
Taking care of Buddy are you?
(U)
The President:
Yes, he's got to go outside.
I have a door
right here.
I will let him out. (Pause)
Sorry. Hillary is at
another place working. We are not together. We're at Camp
David. Here's the problem we all have to watch. Because of
European public opinion and Arab public opinion, we don't want
to look blood thirsty and have to go the last mile. Saddam
needs a face saver. Kofi Annan would love to go in and save the
day, which is fine with me. The problem from my point of view
is, we can give them some sort of change in appearance here on
how to deal with the presidential palaces but it can't undermine
the integrity of the inspections and turn it from a professional
process to fundamentally a political one. We are trying to
arrive at language, whereby they open Presidential sites to
UNSCOM but palaces would be treated differently. Palaces would
be open to diplomats and political personages.
I think we are
agreed, at least that is what Sandy said. Apparently the actual
palaces would be subject to UNSCOM and then Annan could name
diplomats to go with them. But if you take UNSCOM out of the
decision making and let Annan make all the decisions, the
pressures on him would be enormous for a different standard.
Annan is talking about taking Ekeus with him. ~
He's Swedish, right?
(U)
The President: Yes. He was Butler's predecessor. He's now the

ambassador to the United States as fate would have it. But that
CONFH)ENTIAL
COHFIDENTIAL
might not be all bad, even though Ekeus is viewed as softer than
Butler because he didn't put heat on the presidential sites.
The truth is Ekeus was there at the beginning and he had so damn
much work ,to do on other places that it was an acceptable
compromise at the time. He wasn't really at the point because,
he was full up on other sites.
It might work out all right. My,
worst nightmare is being isolated because we can't agree to
something that looks perfectly all right on the surface. We
simply have to insist on technically qualified inspectors.
Look, I wouldn't know a chemical lab from a football field.
We
have a good opening position but the trouble is there is no
place to go after the opening. You and I have to work closely
together on this.
I called King Hassan and had a long talk with
him. He has been a good friend of the United States and of
mine.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

I told him to go to
Saddam, call him and tell him that I have no interest in killing
him or hunting him down.
I'm not fooling with him.
I just
don't want his chemical and biological program going forward.
By the way, the memo you put out on the web is phenomenally
successful. But you must know that.
Everybody wants it.
~
The President:
I agree.
Prime Minister Blair: My view, very clearly indeed, is that the

bottom line all the way through is that the inspectors have got
to be able to do their job uninhibited.
I don't care who
accompanies the inspectors provided they are not interfering
with the inspectors.
That doesn't trouble me.
~
The President:
CONFIDEN'fIAL
I agree.
(U)
CONFIDENl'IAb
Prime Minister Blair: Where Saddam is at the moment is that he

will let us in to the presidential sites, but onl once and
Annan into the presidential palaces.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
It puts him in a terrible position.
It looks
good to him because he gets to be a peacemaker and the real
issues are technical. Let me go back to the history a bit. The
history is that UNSCOM originally was set up answerable to the
Security Council and not to him, and he doesn't particularly
like that. There was a working group and an oversight board.
But there is a permanent staff at UNSCOM.
The real problem is,
for example, that if it were put under the Secretary General and
out from under UNSCOM, all decisions would come to him:
it
would be up to him to determine which site to inspect, where and
when.
They would have to go back to him and he would decide
when the files got closed, and which sites need future
monitoring. What we tried to do is say, look we don't want to
make those decisions either. We only care that independent,
making the inspections.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4 d
Politically, the idea of letting these

inspectors decide when to inspect and where to inspect and when
to close files and which sites most likely require future
monitoring is very important. You can dress it up in a lot of
different ways. Our opening position, which Sandy said your
guys signed off on, we can take to Kofi and the French and the
Russians, but then what? It is hard to think of a fallback
position if the French and Russians push us on this.
I have
enormous regard for Kofi Annan.
I think he is a heck of a man,
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
ave oun out dealing with this is that most

people, even in our own country, have not thought much about the
facts of chemical and biological weapons and how little space it
takes to produce them and their capacity for delivering this
stuff now.
That is what basically concerns me. They say in the
Middle East we are hypocrites. They say there are others who
CONFIDEH'fIAL
CONFIDEN'l'IAL
have this, they say the Israelis, but no one else has shown a
willingness to use them or share them with anyone else. ~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
tell me this because I don't quite understand it, where is

Saddam Hussein on this, where does he corne down on this? My
people have been unable to tell me. ~
The President: . We. don't know either. The only outstanding
issue is who is in charge of the presidential site inspections.
He even tried to get Newt Gingrich to bring a congressional
delegation to the presidential sites. Newt was smart enough to
-know that one site has nearly 100 buildings that could be
warehousing these chemicals, labs, and stuff.
tt
A huge complex.
The President:
On biological agents, you hardly need a room the
size of a photographer's darkroom to do it. 121
Prime Minister Blair: That's right.
Is he now saying the only
outstanding issue is not the presidential sites but simply who
authorizes inspections? +e1
The President:
It is my understanding ... I've had so damn many
conversations today, I am not sure I remember.
I'm not sure I
know the answer on monitoring and corning back again. My
understanding is what he says is the outstanding issue is who
gets to come into the presidential sites. ~
Sites or palaces?
Jef
The President:
Both, I think. He has a higher standard for
palaces than sites, but he is basically saying he will let
someone corne in and look at both categories.
;zi
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Yes and basically he thinks Kofi will be
responsive to political pressures if he does that and will take
us off line.
Saddam thinks Butler is a stooge of America, but
hell, I never even talk to Butler. He is a tough guy and I like
what he is doing.
I've reached the conclusion after eliminating
CONFIDEN'F Hili
CONFI DEN'fIAL
all possible alternatives that Saddam still has the makings of a

chemical and biological program he doesn't want to give up.
+et
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President: Yes.

I'm
and will call you back to
together on this.
If our
he wants Kofi to make all
construct a good argument
looking at some other things we can do

talk about it. We'll need to stay
two staffs are together and if he says
of the calls, then we need to
why that is not a good thing.
ker

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Je1
Awful.
E.O.13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
L -_ _~~~~~~~~~~_ _ _ _~
The President:
I am going to talk to him tomorrow-or maybe
tonight.
If I get any clUe, I'll let you know. Listen Tony,
what's the most direct contact you have had with Iraq since
1991? For instance, has the British Foreign Minister talked to
Tariq Aziz?
.JRf
I honestly don't know.
check and get back to you. Jer
I'll have to
The President:
If I weren't constrained by the press, I would
pick up the phone and call the son of a bitch. But that is such
a heavy-laden decision in America.
I can't do that and I don't
think you can. ..J..e"}
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
CONFIDENTIAL
CONFIDENI IAL
'Phe PresidepL:
I agree.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
Prime Minister Blair:J
The President:
I can't tell you how critical it is.
It costs
us a hell of a lot of money to do all this moving around we are
. doing, not counting the political costs. ~
The President: Agree, but I will have a hard time selling

anything here short of military action, but I can do that if I
~
know it is real.
IPrime Minister Blair,
The President:
Can't allow that.
The President:
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
CONFI DEN'3'IAL
I can't agree more.
CONFIDEN'f'IAL

If we stay in close contact tomorrow,
when will we send him off to Baghdad? ~
The President:
I don't know. He wants to go Wednesday or
Thursday.
I will let you know. Let's keep in close touch on
this.
If you want to talk about this, I don't care if you get
me up in the middle of the night if you want to. There is
hardly anything more important. le1
Pr-ime Minister Blair:
If I have more thoughts tomorrow, I'll
just give you a call, shall I? ~
The President:
Yes, I'm not doing much more.

The President:
Okay.
Goodbye.
Goodbye, Bill, all the best.
(U)
CONFIDENTIAL
ke1
(u)
CONi luCNT AL
COHFIDEN1'IAL
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:
Telecon with British Prime Minister Blair
PARTICIPANTS:
President Clinton
Notetakers: Larry Wright, Tony Campanella,
Bob Ford, Tom Crowell, Jim Smith, Peter
Huggins
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
FEBRUARY 12, 1998, 4:05 - 4:20 p.m. EST Oval

Office
Hello?

The President:
Hi Bill.
Hey.
How are you?
The President: All right. We had a wonderful time with you

here.
I hope you enjoyed it half as much as we did.
Prime Minister Blair: We had an absolutely fantastic time.
especially enjoyed Friday night and Saturday morning.
We
The President: You've turned me into an icon for everyone at

the State dinner.
Prime Minister Blair: We had a great time. We are so pleased
at all the time you and Hillary spent with us; we really enjoyed
it.
I hope it wasn't too fraught or difficult for you.
The president: Everything is going okay from what we can see
here; we had a great time and wanted to thank you for that.
Bill, I have a problem now.
CONFIDE~lTIAL
Reason:
1.5 ( b , e D . .
. '
DeclaSS2fy On,
~ '"'-.-
..._~_~
._--' .-:-...;.-- -
-:-"
02/~tlJ~!1~t:J
,
tONFIDEN':FL"rL
The President:
I know you do.
Prime Minister Blair: I spoke with Bertie Ahern this evening

and here is how the land lies. There have been two murders
carried out.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
President Clinton:
What were they thinking about?
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
CONFIDEN'fIAL
CONFIDENTIAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b )( d)
President Clinton:
they?
They haven't protested their innocence, have
Prime Minister Blair: /
~---~
President Clinton: What are they thinking?
is payback for what happened before?
Do you think this
Prime Minister Blair:~r__________________________________________~

President Clinton:
Within the IRA?
President Clinton:
ever you do?
Can you get Bertie to go along with what
COHFIDEN'fIAL
CONE IDEN'fIAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
President Clinton:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
I The only thing
we've done so far, because we thought it would be what you
wanted, is we got in touch with Sinn Fein and told them they
have to make a statement and have the IRA make a statement.
President Clinton:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I

We have said that.

I want to do whatever I
can to be helpful, really helpful, it's important for me to keep
this thing going. I don't want to get in the position of you
and me against Ireland. I want some influence over those
people ...
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
President Clinton: Let me call him. Give me one more chance to

hit these people, to get them to make a tough statement because
you can't be caught in the middle of this:
you are in a hell of
a pickle.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
President Clinton: Me too. It's so damned stupid unless they

have a spli t between them and their bad guys ...
CONFI DENT L'tL
eONPI DEN9:' IAL
Prime Minister Blair: IIE.o.13526, section IH(b)(d)

President Clinton: ... and their.bad guys got out of hand and
their good guys don't think they have the strength to kick them
publicly.
It doesn't make a lick of sense.
President Clinton:
are lucky
No, I agree with that.
You are the best friend they have and they

there.
This is so stupid,
this.
Let me get
in touch wLth Bertie and we'll get back together.
I want to do
it in a way that's possible to keep this going.
I just want to tell
ou Bill.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)( d)
President Clinton:
I agree.
Let me get on this and we will be
back in touch.
I am really sorry Tony this happened to you.
the way through this.
President Clinton:
Well, there have been ups and downs all

We just have to make sure this works.
Thanks, man.
Let's get back in touch.
End of Conversation
COlqPIDEH'f TAL
3E C!<:E 'I'
THE: WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Peter Huggins, Bonnie Glick,
Tom Crowell, Lawrence Butler, Gwenyth
Todd and Joe Marty
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
February 22, 1998, 1:15 - 1:26 p.m. EST

The Residence
Hello?

The President:
(U)
Hello Bill.
Fine, thank you.
How are you?
(U)
Have you talked to Kofi?

I talked to him
toda. He said he was going to call me.
but not
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The Pr"esident: Well, I'll tell you what I heard.

a little intelli ence this morning.
We picked up
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
to wait.
Now I don't know all the facts, we just have

The main thing I wanted to say is that it is really
important to stay in close contact and stay determined on this.
1'&)
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President: All I got is secondhand rumor. All Madeleine

has is a cryptic call saying all the elements are in place. Who
knows what that means? ~
Prime Minister Blair: . Who does Butler work under anyway?
The President:
He works for the Security Council.
the Security Council.
1G1
UNSCOM is
I E.O. 13526, section IA(d)
I totally agree with that.
The President:
This is twice he's done this.
again, it's our fault, not his. Jer
ke1
If it happens

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President: Here's the thing. We need to make sure, in

fairness to him and to us, we need to make sure we are speaking
in the same terminology. CNN had some damn fool of a reporter
saying these sites are smaller than I had led the American
public to believe.
If you're talking about the palaces, that's
one thing.
If you are talking about the grounds, that is quite
another.
If we ask Kofi to revisit where someone is living,
some house with a lab in the basement that's one thing. But
some of those sites have a hundred warehouse-sized buildings.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

ECRET
SECRET
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President: We have got to have another resolution so we

don't have to go through this again. ~
The President: Well, if Kofi calls you before me, call me.
if he calls me, I will contact you.
I am just going to be
hanging around here today_
(~
And

I have to travel for 45 minutes today,
but other than that I am in Chequers or Downing Street. You're
at Camp David? ~
The President:
No, I stayed at the White House this weekend
because I think this thing is going to break. OK, we're totally
agreed on this situation, then, how do you feel on this Northern
Ireland thing?
tet
SECRET
SECRE'l:'
KO. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Adams is not coming here, which is good news.
--<-e-J
The President:
I'll do that.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I want to work with you.
I don't want to
undercut you.
I'm pleased. Youfre doing well so far, we will
just stay in touch. This Iraqi thing might break in the next
six hours. -te1'""
whatever time...
(e)
The President:
Alright.

The President:
Bill, obviously itfs earlier for you, but
(U)
Goodbye.
Thank you.
(U)
Goodbye friend.
SECRE'P
(U)
C ONFI DENT L"rL
THE: WH ITE HOUSE:

WASnl~GTON

E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers:
Peter Huggins, Torn Crowell,
Jeff Rathke, Lawrence Butler and Gwenyth
Todd
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
February 22, 1998, 4:38 - 4:49 p.m. EST

The Residence
Hi, Tony.
prime Minister Blair:

The President:
(U)
Hi, Bill.
You're faint.
Can you hear me now?
(U)
(U)

I've spoken with Kofi and I gather he's
spoken to Madeleine as well.
~
The President:
Yeah.
(U)

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
But I'm not sure.

detail?
Have you been able to glean any more
-k-e"}
The President:
Well, I haven't.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4( d)
CONFI DEN'fIAL

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Yeah, I don't think he wanted to talk on the
phone, and our guys are guessing on it, too. it
,The Preside'nt:
sure. -teT-
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
Well, I hope he hasn't either, but I'm just not

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
e Just have to wait and see what

happens.
If there is another violation we need to seriously
consider funding opposition groups and giving whatever help we
can and just cut the umbilical cord. +er
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Yeah, and it's weird, because Kofi is not coming
back until Tuesday.
It's going to leak. ~
It's bound to.
ke1
The President:, It would put poor old Butler in a terrible

situation. Madeleine talked to him today, but couldn't say
much. We don't want him to spout off without knowing what kind
of deal it is. --+er
bloke is he? teT
The President:

of him? .fE7
~
C~IFIPH'I'L'\L
I've never come across him.
What kind of
Madeleine couldn't get the details out
CONFIDEN'fIAL
The President:
No, she doesn't know much more than

[ E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)

He said he's going to have a press
conference tomorrow morning. What's he going to say then?
The President: We don't know.
I think
tomorrow morning that he has a'deal but
about it until he comes back and briefs
in Paris and give Chirac his plane back
What else can I tell you? I just don't
Paris? l1
The President:
he's going to say

he can't really talk
us. Then he will stop
and come on over here.
know.
~
And there's no one he's going to see in
Yeah, no.
Y21
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President: Yep, it's a very tenuous situation, and maybe

when he gets to Paris, we can figure something out.
It's a
really raw deal to sit for a day and a half, not knowing what
the deal is.
fCT
If he just lands and takes off again ...
-ft"
The President:
I don't know, I just heard he will stop in Paris
and then fly on to New York City.
~
Prime Minister Blair: He may say he won't talk or speak to
anybody, but on the other hand, we have got to know what is
happening.
(-eJ
The President:
Yeah.
(U)
Prime Minister
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
CONPIDENTIAL
eONFI15EM'fIAL
The President:
That's what I worry about -- I talked to
Madeleine and Sandy before I talked to you. Let me see what I
can find out -- they think it can work if it is strictly
administered by Kofi, but we need to know what Butler's going to
say about it.
J,.e1
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President: Apparently he did that, but maybe Kofi gets to

decide who goes back, and when. ~
The President:
Yep, uh-huh.
(U)
The President:
Yep, but if we can't get it, we have to say what
we were going to say anyway.
(0
I think we'd better get working on that
right away.
I hate being in this position for the next thirtysix hours.
~
The President:
That's really bad. Let me call my crowd back
and see what they say, what we can work out.
I don't like being
in this position. -+etPrime Minister Blair:
I can try to contact Kofi and tell him
that when he gets to Paris he needs to call us right away, that
we really need to know what is going on.
I think I will try
that. -fer
The President:
Okay.
)
L-________________- - - - - - Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Yep.
(U)
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)

CONFIDEN'PIAL
cmlFIDEN'PIAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
Prime Minister Blair: Bill, I'll get John Weston to start

working On the Security Council thing right away.
I'll try to find out some more from Baghdad.

The President:
Okay.
And in the meantime,

)k1
(U)
:_I___________________________________
_iL_p_r_i_m_e__M_i_n_i_s_t_e_r__B_l_a_l_.r__
The President:
Yeah.
----~:J
(U)
It's a curious way of doing business.
(C)
The President:
Yes, it's a weird deal.
The President: That bothers me. Kofi's wait gives him a chance
to spin it, and I don't like that. ~
'--------~
The President: Yes, Madeleine does.
there, too. ;ef
I'll see what we can do
L I_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _- - - - - - - - - -
The President:
Yeah.
(U)
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
Prime Minister Blair: Okay. Right, Bill--I am here all night

if you need to get a hold of me... ft
CONFIDEH'PIAL
CONFIDENTIAL
The President:
I'll do it.
The President:
Alright.
(U)
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
Thank you.
(U)
Thanks, Bill.
(U)
End of Conversation
COHFI Dg~IT L1\d,
CONP1DEN'PL"rL
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHLNGTON

E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Pat O'Shaughnessy, Bonnie
Glick, Tom Crowell, Jeff Rathke, Lawrence
Butler and Don Bandler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
February 23, 1998, 8:57 - 9:12 a.m. EST

The Residence
Hello?

we, then?
(U)
(U)
Hi, Bill, how are you doing?
The President:
Let me tell you what I
document.
First of all, the ood thin
How stand
been told about the
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
I think we
have to study this document and listen carefully to what Kofi
says tomorrow.
je}
.
It is important that the commission rush a group of qualified
experts -- I think that we have to test the agreement soon. You
know, we have to get whatever the agreement is:
show up at one
of these sites and start looking around.
I'd like to do it
before I have to move the whole U.S~ Navy around again. Now,
COHFI DEN'l' 1M
Classified by:
Glyn T. Davies
Reason: 1.5 (bi; d) - _ ;;..ri,---_ ~~sr'-' ~~~ .----~--------"',.
Declassify On:! 2/~80 - . _ ]
; __-<~ .-'~:r~~ LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY ).
.<?:..~::,-::;~-::~ __._,,_~ . c-';';:;";~_~"-' "->""..::___ ~ __/:;~-';'/
eOMFIBEM'I'IAL
Baghdad has done this before with weapons of mass destruction.
-+et-"
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
First of all, you need to get this thing and look at it. What I
would like is to be in a position in the next two or three hours
to talk to Yeltsin and Chirac. ~
I want to compliment Kofi and say we understand they have agreed
to free and unfettered access,
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
You guys get this document. He is going to make it

widely available in an hour. Let's go through it. ~
[ E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
CONn DEH'I'IAL
CONFIDEU'fIAL
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Exactly, my view is that we may have another
twenty-four to thirty-six hours of word wrangling.
We just have
to see. )Q1
- Prime- Minis-ter Blair:
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President: Well, apparently, he has some leeway over how

the UN structures itself for this special team. He has to know
that we want this done correctl , we don't want this to be a
bunch of olitical B.S.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

We very much hope this will work out.
approach.
That's my
-ret

are you, Bill? ~
You're going to say something publicly,
The President:
I'm not going to say anything for three or four
hours -- I may not be able to, but I'm going to try.
The trick
is to embrace the effort, pocket his commitment, and thank Kofi
for getting it, and he has never done this before.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
or four hours,
gOlng
flesh
I agree with that.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
CONFIDEN'3'IAL
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
three
CONFIDEN'fIAL
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Tony, I don't know the answer to that.
We
haven't studied the agreement closely, and Kofi isn't here, so
.we can' t cail him. ~
No one has spoken to Kofi?
The President: He told me he'd call me from Paris.

I don't
know if he will or not.
I talked to him late last night.
You
know, he clearly thinks he has a good deal, the question is
whether his definition of a good deal is the same as ours. Jef
Pr ime Minis ter Blair:
The President:
You and I don't want to rain on it, because if
we hadn't been tough, we wouldn't have had the damned deal. We
can't completely embrace it until we see the details.
We don't
want to be in the position of buying a pig in a poke and then
say, "Holy cow -- we don't know what happened to it." ket
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President: Absolutely.

message is, "Yes, if." ~
Sandy says we ought to say our

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
CONFIDEN'fIAL
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
eONPIDEN'FIAL
I E.O. 13526, section IA( d)
Prime Miniiter Blair:
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
That's why I just have to leave everyone where
they are, because we have to have a test.
I have to leave our
troops in place. ~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
We're having a vigorous agreement here. Any
time in the next two hours you want to talk, after you have seen
it, let me know.
)4
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I wish you would.
I understand Yeltsin can take
my call in one hour. Chirac said he can't take my call for twoand-a-half hours.
That's a long time. He called here earlier,
while I was still in bed, and said he didn't want them to wake
me.
I don't think it's evasion, I think it's just the schedule.
It may be better not to talk to them right away. You get the
document and parse it a little, and see if there are any holes
in the road.
I'll try to call you before I talk to Yeltsin and
Chirac. Otherwise, I'll just talk to Yeltsin. ~
The moment I get the document I will look
at it carefully. And we can talk later. je1
The President:
Goodbye.
(U)
Thanks, bye.
(U)
End of Conversation
GONFIDaFfIAL
CON FI DEN'fIAL
THE WHITE HOUSE

E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: James Smith, Pat O'Shaughnessy,
Tom Crowell, Bonnie Glick, Jeff Rathke,
Nancy McEldowney, Rexon Ryu
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
February 23, 1998, 12:28-12:42 p.m. EST

The Oval Office

The President:
Hi, Bill.
(U)
Tony, how are you?
(U)
Fine, I'm fine.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Hold on.
Here's one, go on.

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

CONF'IDE1H 1AL
Classified by; Glyn T. Davies

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E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Who's the commissioner?

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I couldn't agree more. We believe he'll appoint
a guy with technical expertise, who will have credibility with
Butler, but it certainly needs to be. ~
E.O.13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I couldn't agree more. You've identified the
same things I'm worried about. Sandy suggested a
which
is quite good; our position on this shoul b to
and
test. We need to clarif , then test.
[ E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
CONFIDENTIPrL
Yes, I agree with that entirely.
;ef
COl>TFI DEN'FIAI:;
The President:
One thing that we thought of doing, is to get
Butler back in the ballgame, because we don't want him out; Kofi
is supposed to consult with Butler and the head of the IAEA, and
presumably that will keep him from underminin the inte rit .
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
he can get a team In there until

What is today, the 23 rd , so that's
He doesn't think he can get a good team in
there, but I think that having someone say, "we're UNSCOM and we
want to check the Ministry of Defense" would be a good way to
check in a hurry.
te1
~rime ~inis~er Blair:
The President:
I understand. We need to ask all these
questions, but no matter how good his answers, we need an early
test.
kcJ
The President: It will take me a few weeks to withdraw troops

from the Gulf, so we will sit tight.
I think we need to test,
as you said, test under 4 but also 5, because there are
sensitive sites that aren't presidential sites. Also it will
take longer under Para 4 to get started.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

I think that is right.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
Has
anyone spoken to Kofi?
The President:
I spoke to him last night at 8:30 my time, which
was 4:30 his time. He was a little groggy, but he wanted to
demonstrate to us that the agreement would fully meet the P-5
instructions he took to Baghdad.
I said that's great, but at
that time I hadn't seen the agreement. He promised to call me
when he got to Paris.
I don't know if he's in Paris, but I
CONFI DEN'l'IAL
COHFIDEH'FIAL
understood that he did not want to talk in enormous detail over

Iraqi phones. ~
No, quite smart.
The President: Now, let me tell you some good news,

potentially.
I spoke with Yeltsin, and went over m concerns,
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
.Prime -Minister Blair:

The President:
That's pretty good.
That's pretty damn good.
.(.e-)-
Jer
The President: My relationship with Yeltsin is such that all

his hard-liners believe I could talk to Yeltsin and get him to
sell the oil wells for three dollars and a half, but that's not
true.
He's just more far-sighted and progressive than they are.
Half the time they go to work on him, and I have no doubt that
they'll make some effort to undermine this. He was quick and
unambiguous, and one thing about Yeltsin, he doesn't like for
people to take advantage of him.
If Saddam Hussein doesn't do
it, Yeltsin would take it as a personal insult to him.
I think
he wants to do right, so if he can stay hitched,
rea y e leve
a s
have that he'll observe the agreement.
If you talk to Yeltsin,
I would appreciate it if you would reinforce this. ~.
Prime Minister Blair: I
The President:
with me,
to.
13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
II tel
You should say you've talked to me and you agree
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
Prime Minister Blair: Absolutely right.

spoken to Chirac, Bill? Aer
Did you say you've
The President:
I'll talk to him after I talk to you . And i f I
get anything, I may talk to you after I talk to him. .....(-e1
CONFIDEN'f'IlW
CONI"IDEM'fIAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b )(d)

(C)
The President:
That's it, you got it.

The President:
Thanks.
Okay, Bill, let's keep in touch.

(U)
CCMFIDEN'l'IAL
cmrFI DEf<l''f IAt
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASH INGTON

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Bonnie Glick, Tom Crowell,
Joel Schrader, Jeff Rathke, James Smith
and Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
March 9, 1998, 5:38 - 6:05 p.m. EST

The Oval Office
The President:
Tony?

The President:
Great.
(U)
Hi, Bill.
How are you?
(U)
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: Bill, I'm sorry to trouble you.

There
are a couple of things I wanted to discuss with ou.
First of
all, the Middle East Peace Process.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Let me tell you where we are and we may be able
to do something together. You mean you have aid to facilitate
some of these things? ~
COHFIDEN'P IAL
Classified by: ,-Glyn T, Davies, ''_~~-~~

Reason:
l. 5 (Jj, d) :--""''''''' -----ffi.""',;,.,-:'-----"'\:
Declassify On: f
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GO~JFIDEHTIAL
Yes.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)

The President:
about it.
Let me tell
ou where we are and then we'll talk
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
I think they're really ready to go now on the airport and the

industrial park, but they keep messing around with each other.
I think they're afraid, each for different reasons, to go ahead.
I had to put this off until the Iraq thing was resolved,
temporarily, at least. What I'd like to do is give them this
proposal and coordinate with you.
Part of the proposal is that
we want them to go ahead and finish the industrial park and get
on to safe passage. +er
proposal? -tt-
When do you think you will put forth your
The President: As soon as I can.

two weeks.
~
This month; within the next
Right.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)

The President: Arafat is afraid to take a redeployment now and
go to final status talks without a guaranteed third one; my view
is he can always make a final deal, and more is better than
less. ..(..et
CONn DEN'fIAL
'~.'
': .. ,.,
CONFI DENT IAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I think there might be a way to do that. What
I'd like to do ... if I could give them the overall proposal
first, then we could get together and put this to them.
I think
if we could coordinate that way, it would give them a way to get
started on it. By putting more money on the table, it would
create a
if they're looking for a reason -- an excuse to go
forward, it would be good. k1
Prime Minister Blair: Right. You reckon you will put your
proposal forward in the next couple of weeks? ~
The President:
Absolutely.
jf
Prime Minister Blair: Some sort of redeployment package

including the other issues as well? Jer
The President:
Yes.
fer

Then we could help by having some sort of
quadrilateral summit afterwards. 1e1
The President:
Yes.

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Yes. We're ready to go back to them and I think
we have some chance of getting them to move.
~
cmlFImmTIAL
CONPIDEH'PIAL

I'm set to go to the Middle East in
April, early April. Obviously it would help to have something
fairly concrete up and running before then.
(~
The President:
We'll have something by then.
The President: We had a good day yesterday.

They were able to
go into the Ministry of Defense and get some records out which I
am hopeful will resolve something one way or another.
The fact
that ~hey ~ere able to get into ministry buildings is a real
reaffirmation of UNSCOM's ability to fulfill the understanding
Kofi says they got. Now we have to continue to test compliance
on sensitive sites, which will happen near the end of the month,
but my own view is we should leave our forces there to monitor
compliance and keep the integrity of UNSCOM strong.

~~I~E~.~O~.1_3~52~6~,s~e~ct~io_n_l~.4~(b.)(~d~)__~1 ~
The President:
Yes, I thought we ought to fight if off. My own
view is that Saddam got what he asked and we got what we asked
for, and not to politicize UNSCOM.
~
,--_____--'7
-J/
L -______________________________
The President:
Jer
Yes.

The President:
Absolutely.
The President:
That's right.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d),
, ~~. -,.....J'''''}';-"s~.:- - _.-;.-..i. .~-:--...:.----..,-=-....,::::;\.
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eOMF'I DElffIAL
The President:
So far I'm feeling pretty good about it.
keeping my fingers crossed. ~
I'm
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b )( d)
The President: Oh yeah.

I saw him.
I'll call him
few days. He doesn't want me to make this
the next
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
be down. ...(..e1""
They're really down, and they've got reason to

I think the Palestinians are coupling
redeployment with some of these other issues. By all means, if
you guys in the United states can put together a big package,
that's fine.
Since we have so much aid tied up in this, we
should try to move on smaller stuff, as well.
~
The President:
I couldn't a ree more.
move on all three things.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
leaded for a
ear to
Let us put our proposal to them and let's see if we can get
together and meet and we can push ahead. That can give them the
boost to move to permanent status talks.
s,e1
Prime Minister Blair: Right, okay, Bill, just one other thing
on Northern Ireland. ...(-e1""'
The President:
Where are we on that?
We're getting along, basically.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
l..;L:;
'~j"
'u
"- 1 ,I,''i_
t','
CONFIDENTIAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)( d)
The President:
You do?
~------------------~I
The President:
We'll do that.

them all.
Mo's coming too, isn't she?
Yeah, I think she is.
So you can see
The President:
Let me ask you this: have you gotten a good
reaction to Straw's extradition decision?
cr
Prime Minister Blair: Yeah, I mean we got a good reaction in

certain quarters
as usual, it was a good reaction in certain
quarters and not so ood in others and that's 'ust the wa it
is.
The President:
I will do my best to bang their heads together
and caution them on good conduct, but attacks are likely to come
from quarters none of us can control.
J,.e)
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
,." ~~.." _,.~[,':-:r~~,;~-'---- -----. --..-~-----=-~'\\
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COHFIDEN'fIAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
You really think you can go back to the original
timeframe and get something done by May?
~
The President:
Yes, I do.
ke1
When will the referendum be?
In May.
The President:
.~
When?
fCl
ke(

The President:
Then they think they'll get a bigger turnout for
their referendum, too? ;ef
A bit of that,
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
So there it is, really, Bill.

just have to keep pushing on . ....(.eY
We
The President: Alright. We'll be in touch. We'll coordinate

with your people on the peace process in the next two weeks,
we'll hang around in Iraq to see what happens, and I'll do what
you ask on St. Patrick's Day. That's just a week from tomorrow.
I'll report back if I hear anything interesting. )Q1
COI?lFIDENTIAL
Yeah, okay.
CONf'IDEN''fIAL
The President:
How are you doing?

The President;
along. -ter
(U)
I'm fine, actually.
(U)
It looks like your economy's still pumping

It is, I remember you telling me once
that once the guys start coming in with good news, there are
other guys telling you that it's not good news. ~
The President:
Wall Street used to go down every time the
economy would grow. Now it doesn't go down as much, now that
there's been such a long period without inflation.
I think if
you have the same experience, then soon investors and ordinary
folks begin to agree, and that's good news.
There's a guy at
Stanford who is an economist, and who COincidentally is the son
of DNC Chairman Roy Roemer. He's a bit of a libertarian, but he
argues that in the technological era, in countries with open
markets, the constraints of the business cycle have been
considerably loosened, and you can grow more and longer. All of
us are essentially underestimating productivity and the most
important economic policy is not to limit the ability of
technology to prod the economy.
;e1
The President:
Well, I hope to goodness he's right.
Me, too.
Prime Minister Blair: We keep looking across the Atlantic

hoping it will happen . .-JRr
The President:
Well, I think it will.
I think it's coming to
you, and unemployment is way down, and you've got to stick with
it. ..{.e-jPrime Minister Blair: We have a very tough battle ahead on
welfare, there are a lot of things to do there.
~
The President:
you? jQ1'
Are the Tories going to vote against you or with

COHFIDEN'PIAL
C ONFI DEt<f'f lAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President: And with the parliamentary system, it really

pays off.
If I could have waited another year for elections,
I'd still have a majority.
I think you're doing the right
thing:
as long as you have the muscle and juice, go ahead and
go. ;e{ ..
Prime Minister Blair: Well that's what I reckon.
are testing this theory to destruction!
~
The President:
Ha!
Birmingham.
ke1
You'll be alright.
Anyway, we
I'm looking forward to
Prime Minister Blair: Well, that'll be great.

forward to having you.
Is Hillary well? ~
We are looking
The President:
She's great. You need to decide, we all do, if
anything would be served by me going to Ireland after
Birmingham. ~
We'll know that in the next few weeks, if
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
It is a mess.
-+er

E.O. 13526, section 1A(b)(d)
COMFIDEN''f'IAL
10
CONFI DEN'FIl'rL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
. Yes, alright.
Well I'll see you soon.
Okay, Bill.
All the best.
CONP ID'EH'fIAL
(U)
(U)
SECRE'P
!i2v
THE WHITE HOUSE

WA.'" 1-1 ,"-, "TO N

KO. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers:
Peter Huggins, Sean Rice,
Tony Campanella, Jim Smith and Lawrence
Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
March 20, 1998, 5:18 - 5:50 p.m. EST

The Residence
Tony. How are you?

day in Germany.
(U)
The President:
Fine, thank you very much.
Where are you in Germany, Berlin?

Bonn.
(U)
The President:
(U)
I went to see Helmut Kohl.
I like Bonn.
I spent the
(U)
I went to
It's a sweet little town.
I like i t as well.
(U)
The President: What is your take on the elections and on

Schroeder? ~
The President:
f5"!
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
(U)
~.-
....
\~"'.: ~.-. ~
5ECRE'l'
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Yeah, he's a wonderful man.
)81
The President:
That's interesting, but remember, Tony, he was
18 points down in the last election, but I'm afraid in this last
term they haven't been able to restore any growth. He looked
good in the beginning.
~
ECRET
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
3EC~El'
The President:
Scharping?
Prime M.inister Blair:

The President:
Prime Minister
Yes, Scharping.
I
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
~B11~ali~r~:~=;~;=;i~~~~~~~~~~============~~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)( d) I
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
~hat kept us going in 1992.
~
That is
Prime Minister Blair: There was a sort of buzz about the place.
We .had a good time. Bill, thanks for everything you've done on
Ireland.
(.21
The President:
J.&'r
I tried to do exactly what you asked me to do.

can't tell you how much.
ou did. I dee 1
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
PrimeMinister Blair:
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
bECRET
reciated it.
SECRET
ECRE'F
The President:
I tried to use public and private meetings.
met with all of them. Well almost all of them.

Prime Minister
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b )(d)

The President:
I see something else relevant in my observation
of the Middle East, and Bosnia where we sent in an occupying
army.
If we didn't, the peace would have led to more violence.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d
One problem is there are always enemies of peace out

there. The people that killed Rabin and blew up the bombs knew
exactly what they were doing. They were each other's best
friends. As part of this peace deal, we have to make the deal
first, but you have to have someone you trust thinking about the
next steps.
It is not too soon to start thinking about what you
want me to do and speculate what kind of outbursts or problems
you envision in the next few years.
I am prepared to make
whatever reasonable investment I can.
I'm worried that some
enemy of peace will gum it up, stop the investment coming in
there and torment people . . You have to have somebody thinking
about it, someone you trust but who's not involved: don't take
your eye off the ball. Churchill and Roosevelt were thinking
about the UN in 1943 and 1944. It's not too soon to start
thinking about this. J21
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

The President:
1 E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
The President:
ECRE'f
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
E.O.13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
SECRE'f
SECRE"T
5
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
SECRET
SECRET
SEGRE'T
6
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
SECRET
SECRET
SECRET
7
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
3ECRE'l'
SEqRET
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
SECRE'f"""
SEq RET
SECRET
E.O.13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
SECRE''
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I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

Prime Minist.er Blair:
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
When are you off to Africa,

Bill ?
JZl
The President:
Sunday.
We're very excited.
(U)
It's quite a big trip.
(U)
The President:
Yes, for the United States. No American
president has even been to Africa. Carter went to Nigeria and
Liberia and Roosevelt and Reagan stopped over there.
It's
unconscionable what we. haven't done in Africa.
(C)
I think it's a fascinating continent.
I'm really excited for you.
(U)
The President:
Keep your fingers crossed.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: All the best to you.

I see you have been
defeating your enemies as usual. Keep it up. ~
The President:
They've got a lot of money out there to get
people to say a lot of stuff. We're doing extremely well, but
it's a weird way to live.
~
Prime Minister Blair: We'll talk more the next time we meet.
Every time we see another one fall, we cheer.
~
The President:
Take care, man.
(U)
Okay, Bill and lots of love to Hillary.
(U)
The President:
Okay.
(U)
EGRE'P
3ECRET
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON

E.O. 13526, SECTION S.3(b)(3)

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Peter Huggins, Anthony
Sampanella, Robert Ford, Karen Harris and
Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
AprilS, 1998, 2:08 - 2:24 p.m. EDT

The Residence
Hey Tony.
How are you?
(U)

I'm fine, absolutely fine. You had a
successful trip over there. The crowd scenes were amazing.
(U)
The President: Unbelievable! It was my first time. We really

had a great time. We did some things that most people don't do
in South Africa. We got into the townships and little villages.
They were very good.
(U)
It looked fantastic.
You really made an
impact on them.
It was a big boost to those countries. I t will
(U)
be a bigger boost to the people than to the government.
The President:
Well, I hope so.
How are we doing in Ireland?
-tet
E.O.13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
3ECRET
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Is there anything else that you want me to do?
.-fCf
I don't think at the moment.
-+G+
The President:
I had a good round on Saint Patrick's Day.
really got to know each of them. ~
Prime Minister Blair: ri===================~------------------~
The President:
There is something else I would like to discuss:
the meeting I had with Mandela when Bandar magically showed up .
....f-B-r
II

The President:
E.O.13526,section1.4(b)(d)
I knew him before I became President.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Yes, I agree with that.
We need to know things;
1~________________-tl=E~.O~.~1~35=2=6,~s=ec:t=io=n~l=.4~(d~)~I____________________~I~)
II E.O.13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I
.sECRET
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
----------:::...:;;
."
SECRE'l'
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
SECRET
GECRE'l'
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
SECRT
'-r-'---~.'-'---:'-~,
"
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)

The President:
That's my theory.
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
When are you going out there'?
...(-et"
I'm going in a couple of weeks time.
The President:
ah good. By then we should have a clear path on
what to do by then. ~
The President:
Good.
Prime Minister I:lair:

The President:
SECRE'f
J.e1
It's touch and go all the time.
ke)
Let me know i f you want me to do anything.

The President:
Okay.
Good.
+e-I
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
))21".
SECRE'P

bye.
(U)
The President:
Bye.
Alright, Bill.
~ay
hello to Hillary,
(U)
SECRE'f
3EeRE'!'
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)

SUBJECT:

Blair, (U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers:
Peter Huggins, Joseph Wright,
James Smith, Anthony Campanella and Robert
Ford
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
April 24, 1998, 11:36-11:52 a.m.

The Oval Office
Hello.

The President:
EDT
(U)
Hi, Bill.
Hello, Tony.
(U)
How are you?
(U)

Fine. Bill, I thought we should have a
word to bring you up to date on Northern Ireland and the Middle
~~~--~==~~~~~
I East. I
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I
The President:
Yeah, I saw some of Trimble's guys made a big
show when you voted. )Qf
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I wonder if there is anything I can do from this
end.
I will have some announcements when I go to Birmingham;
there are a number of things we can do, even if they don't want
me to go to Ireland.
One of the things we could do is have
SECRET
Classified by:
Glyn T. Davies
Reason:
1.5 (b!, d)
Af!;;" _. JO~;;:"-------"'~-'--'-"~"'(,
Declassify On:' 4/~?~
" i
,
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~~_r
. . . . __ ~_~
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SECRE'l'
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
Bertie come down to Birmingham and make a 10 to 15 minute

presentation to the G-B, and you and I could go out and make
some statements that there are some goodies on the horizon.
The President:
In terms of my going there, I have no feelings
at all on it.
I just want to win the vote.
This thing could be
a parochial vote and those unionists could say, "this is our
lives and our futures, we have to decide." .k81"
The President:
Why don't we do an informal poll at the end of
the first week in May, see where the undecided voters are by
religion, and see if that would help.
~
The President:
Good.
.(.G-1-
~------------~I
I
The President:
It's a weird world, isn't it?
J81
SECRET
E.O. 13526, section tA(b)(d)
SECRE'F
E.O. 13526, section t.4(b)(d)
ggCFlE'l'
3ECRET
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
SECRET
SECRE'f
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
SECRET
SECRET
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

\'
- - - - - - -
The President:
here. -ter
If you want to talk more about it, I will be

Ireland. -+er
Thanks again, you were a real
he~p
with
The President:
It will be a great victory.
You know, it will
be interesting to see where the splits are between the
Protestants and Catholics.
I know you must have someone up
there working the polls. We ought to be able to calibrate
everything.
The important thing is just to win the referendum.
~
The President: This thing is bigger than foreign policy.

You're better at campaigning than the rest of them and have a
more sophisticated insight; you should just treat it like
another election and do whatever is necessary to win the
election. ..(-e1"
to Hillary. (U)
The President:
Bye.
Right.
Thanks Bill, all the best.
(U)
SECRET
Love
cmlFIDENTIlrL
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASH I NGTON

SUBJECT:

(UP
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Sean Rice, James Smith, David
Higgins, Marianna Papadimitriou, Jeffrey
Rathke
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
May 8, 1998, 1:50 - 2:12 p.m.

Dover, Delaware
The President:
Tony?

The President:
(U)
Hi, Bill.
How are you?
(U)
(U)

I'm fine.
I'm great, I'm just, actually,L---------in my local workman's club doing constituent surgery in county
Durham.
(U)
The President:
Are you in Durham?
I love the Durham Cathedral.
(U)

I just came out of a bar where the old
blokes were telling me about their troubles; from that to you.
(U)
The President:
Good for you.
love Durham.
Did you come here?
(U)
(U)
The President:
I did.
I liked it so well I brought Hillary
back to see the cathedral and walk around the town.
I took her
to York and Durham on one of our trips.
(U)
COHFI DEN'I'IAL
Classified by:
Glyn T. Davies
Reason:
1.5(b(d)
. Ai.",~~,''---~--~---~-;,;,
Declassify On:! 5/g;~~ .',
.'
t(:~~_tON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY
,-:y'~ .-::."2j~:._._~-'--.r.-..~i;.,:,;;~~.~,~~~i-,-~ ...:.:...-;.:.:..~~-.-: r~~_ ' .. _'
CONFIDEN'FIAL
Prime Minister Blair: Oh, well.

I was a choirboy at the
cathedral in Durham, if you can believe that.
(U)
'The President:
You still have that choirboy look.
How are you doing?
(U)
(U)
The President:
I'm doing wonderful.
I'm looking forward to
being with you.
I'm glad you and Major went up there together.
It was good.
(U)
Prime -Minister Blair:
The President:
Yeah, I hope it helped.
You know it did help some.
(U)

right to take the decision you did.
I know Jim
there and took the temperature of the unionist
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
(U)
was
The President:
I think they didn't want to give Paisley and his
crowd a new pretext -- "that's the guy that gave Gerry Adams a
visa and broke the eggs," and all that stuff. j.Q-'(
That's true, but it's the right decision
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)

The President:
I'd like that. We released a few things
yesterday that we will do, and maybe we could pony it up some.
,ke)
this thin and runnin
Yes, well, I'm now taking a real grip

i t like a oli tical
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)

The President: So you think we ought to do some sort of joint
announcement while we are there?
~
COH"FIDEN'FIAL
cmIFIDEH'f IAL
Prime Minister Blair: Yes, I think if we can do that

comin down to one point.
it's all
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The president:
And they can't be in government if they don't ...
.JKf
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)

The President:
It wouldn't just be me, but it would mess them
up here in America. Almost all Irish guys here, including guys
who gave them money under questionable circumstances, would bail
out on them if the vote went positive and if they reneged.
You'd see major abandonment of them by Irish-Americans. That's
something they can't afford. They know they can't.
I'm not so
worried anymore -- I was worried some of the IRA offshoots might
take action against Gerry, but the mainstream crowd knows they
can't violate the agreement or the Americans will go berserk on
them. ..keJ
Prime Minister Blair: Yes, I think for that to be said is very
important. That's reassuring. ~
The President: That's the only reason I wanted to go.
under the illusion that all those Protestants love me.
I was keen
I'm not
()21
Well, you're absolutely right, that's why

~E~.O~.~1~35~2~6~,s~ec~t=io=n~1~.4~(b~)~(d~)~I________________~I
L I_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
The President:
If we say it in Birmingham, it might still have
enough echo to get there.
fer
Prime Minister Blair: Yes, I agree.
It certainly would. And
the stuff you've been saying today, or someone in the White
House has been saying today, about money and investment -there's something leading the news now about that. ~
The President:
That's something we put out yesterday.
kef

It shows you, though, that anything you
say will be carried and given prominence. What Paisley keeps
CONFIDENTIAL
COWFIDEN'HA::b
doing is putting out posters saying that Gerry Adams will be

Minister of Health.
E.O.13526,section1.4(b)(d)
I Jj2f
I I
The President:
The old guy is good.

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
What will the vote be?
(C)
Sinn Fein, you mean?
The President: Will three-quarters of Sinn Fein vote for the

referendum?
j,.ef
I don't know.
I suspect yes, about that .
.ke!
The President:
It seems like a pro forma thing.

I don't think Gerry Adams would say he'll
win the vote unless he is going to win the vote. So I think it
will be pretty resounding. They're prepared to lose some of
their folks.
Prisoners is a big issue for them.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I agree with that. Yesterday, I had a group in
to see me that I think is called WAVE.
It's a group of victims
who lost children, brothers, and parents. They were mostly, but
CONFIDENTIAL
CONFIlSEN'fIAL
not entirely, Protestants. A group that really wants the IRA to

decommission.
They're a militant peace group.
They want to
deal with thousands of people in their inner and physical pain.
I agree with you. ~
We've all taken our licks for Gerry, so if they want a role in
the government, they have got to have some demonstration of good
faith on this violence issue.
These women gave me an idea
yesterday. Your people could vet it for practicality. Maybe
you and Bertie and I could ask for it. ~
They say that there is a some relatively small number of people,
like 2D -- people in the police or otherwise hated by the IRA,
whose remains have never been recovered.
They say if there's
not immediate decommissioning, right after the vote, if you
could work out the legalities so that people would not be
prosecuted and the IRA could somehow direct people to the
remains, so their families could give them a sanctified burial,
that would have a huge psychological impact over there.
I told
them I'd try to help, but I'd talk to you about it. They don't
want vengeance, they just want their people back.
~
will. )ef
Yeah, I think that would be good.
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

look into that \
The President:
Yeah, I think that's a great idea, we'11
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I
I will do it,
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
CONFIDEN'PIAL
CONFIDEl1''l?IM
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
~--------------~
The President:
Yes, it could give them some breathing space .
....(.ef"
Okay, I'll look into that, Bill.
The President:
In terms of you and me making another economic
statement, I will do whatever you think is best for the vote.
If you want to do it in Birmingham or down in London.
yc(
'Prime Minister Blair: Well, I think there are two sorts of
stories from your angle: one is investments; the other is a firm
message to the IRA. ~
The President:
I'm glad to do that, too.

very good.
.(R)
Jf
I think those two in combination would be
The President: See, by the time I get there, we are only a week
from the vote.
So it probably is good to do it sooner rather
than later so it does not seem like some desperate election
move.
tet
The President:
I'll have our guys get in touch with you. Maybe
we could do two separate announcements -- a Sinn Fein one and an
economic one. You organize it, and I will read whatever script
you want me to read. .+eI
~
~
Prime Minister Blair:!

L - - - - -_
The President:
That's all it is. What did you make of
Netanyahu? Madeleine said you were very good.
J1
Prime Minister Blair:/
COHFIDEN'FIlrL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
CONFIDEN'fIAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I spent a lot of time with him in the last year.
After Madeleine's first session, I thought he was a hard
negotiator and not a no-negotiator.
Then he called and asked
Dennis to come over, and I thought that was a good sign. And
now Dennis is there and his spokesman put out a statement saying
he is not coming Monday. I never thought he would, but I
thought he would come once I got back from Europe.
I don't know
yet what's going on, but I may want to call you again once I
find out. Je}
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
be a place where we could do a reverse goo

Europe could bump him a little harder.
ket
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President; .. .And then it vanishes.
CONFIDEN'fL"iL
}e1
This may
cop, where
COMFIDEH'fIAL
It vanishes. ~
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
But, when I see you, we can wor
on It more.
Prime Minister Blair: Yeah, well I'll do the same.

pretty regularly at the moment.
He calls me
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I

"The President:
You know they will.
)R1'
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
That's exactly where the Israelis are.
percent of them want that.
(e)
Eighty

The President:
Okay.

comes". -\-&r
The President:
Aef
We'll stay in touch and talk when the G-8
I agree.
You just let me know what you want.
Prime Minister Blair: And, as ever, many thanks for all your
help. Love to Hillary.
(U)
The President:
CONFIDENT lAL
Yes.
(U)
CONFIDENTIAL

The President:
Bye.
Yes, goodbye.
(U)
(U)
COHFIDEN'3'IAL
tONFIDElif'i'IAL
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON

E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)

SUBJECT:

Blair (C)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Larry Wright, Bonnie Glick, Pat
O'Shaughnessy, James Smith, Peter Huggins,
Jenny McGee, Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
May 21, 1998, 4:31 - 4:42 p.m. EDT

The Oval Office
The President:
Tony?

The President:
(U)
Hi, Bill.
How are you doing?

Fine, fine.
hours in Northern Ireland.
(U)
The President:
(U)
(U)
I just spent the last 48
I hear it is turning around a little bit.
(U)

I think so. I did a complete blitz of
the place, really. Every single kind of radio show, TV show,
audience participation program -- sort of a two-day election
campaign.
It's coming around a bit.
(U)
The President:
I did a radio Bpot yesterday that they are
replaying today.
(U)
E.O. 13526, section 1.4 b d
The President:
What were the best lines?
;z1
CONFIDEN'fIAL
Classified by: Glyn T. Davies

Reason:
1.5 (bi, d) - Ai", ~ tc:;~(>-'- .. ;.';-~-"-'---'--~~-":'\
Declassify On:.! 5/~98- "
.'
1
j,
'"~:~_TON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY

~~_=;::~-,:~~;:~;,---_~"~ '---_ '___>-..~ ;.';,,_;.;.::'-:-._'~__ ./'~;~- ;.t"
CONFIDENTIAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
He has come along, hasn't he?
JWf
Prime Minister Blair: Yes. They had a U2 concert last night

that was great.
Instead of having speeches, Bono told them to
"have a minute of silence for the victims, which was very clever .
..(..G7-
The President: He's a smart man. I met him by accident in 1992

in Chicago, he helped me out and we've stayed in touch ever
since. He's a very smart man. ~
Prime Minister Blair: Yes, we'll have to keep our fingers
crossed. Thanks for what ou did last weekend' it
tremendousl helpful;
The President: Good.

I've just been thinking about you.
I
couldn't think of anything else. I did a big plug for it during
a NATO expansion event.
I talked about Indonesia and Northern
Ireland at our NATO expansion ratification event. ~
It has
layed ver
well here.
The President: Yes, but you have to follow the locals. You've
done all you can.
I was glad to see in my morning intelligence
that there is movement in the polls your way.
I think the
undecided may break your way. +&r
It is possible.
But it sure was the

I literally have spent the last 48 hours
L-~______________________________________~I
right thing to advise.

cmlFIDEN'l:'IAL
I E.O. 13526, section l.4{b)(d)
CONFIDEN'FL"<L
there blitzing the place, everywhere, doing everything.

I
stayed on longer today to visit a hospital, visit a regiment,
saw the police, did a walk-about in the street. And as I got
back into my car, the last person's hand I shook was
(indistinct) McCartney.
~
The President:
Paul McCartney?

The President:
The President:
No, Bob McCartney.
That's great.
.J!2:'J
(Y1'
fer
He started haranguing me.
Did he really?
j.C1-
fer
Prime Minister Blair: Yes. And after I left, he accused some

of the people around of being a rent-a-mob for us.
This old
lady turned on him and gave him a real'earwigging on television.
She said that she was out to vote Yes and that she was not
anyone's rent-a-mob.
She thought he was
disgrace. J.:ei
The President: Sometimes, something like that can be more of a

benefit than anything else.
~
Let's keep our fingers crossed.
Put it
this way:
last weekend it was well that we did what we did.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
COHFIDEN'FIAL
C'ONFIDEN'fIAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Well, let me tell you also that Hillary and I
had a wonderful time at Chequers.
It was wonderful for us.
(U)
Oh Bill, I can't tell you how great it
was to have you. And for the kids, Euan's friend went back to
school the next day in a daze.
I told my people that it was a
real tribute to you that you were prepared to sit down and spend
time with them in that way. We loved having you and had a great
time, we really did.
(U)
The President: Even in the darkest days back in '94 and early
'95, when people thought we were finished, you can always spend
time with kids and you'll never know how you'll have an impact
on a young person that will change everything for them. A
little extra time is the best investment you can make.
Besides
that, it's interesting for me.
And in the work we do, you can
lose contact with people younger than you. A year'younger is a
year younger than you.
You don't even think about it, and then
you turn around and find out it's been a year since you've
.talked to anyone who is 25.
I liked it:
they were delightful
young men.
(U)
Yeah, I'm glad you did.
are still on cloud nine.
(U)
For them, they
The President:
You ought to be proud of yourself. You've done
every damn thing you COUld. When the vote happens, we'll be on
pins and needles over here.
I guess we should know something by
mid-day our time tomorrow. What kind of vote counting operation
do they have over there? lei
Prime Minister Blair: Well, this is Northern Ireland.
Everything is done differently.
They won't start counting until
Saturday morning. We will know Saturday afternoon some time.
(C)
The President:
They will do exit polls, won't they?
yef

In Northern Ireland, they've never done
an exit poll.
But you can never tell.
If you are in the wrong
part of town, you'll get completely skewed results.
I think we
~~~~~~~~~~--
CONFIDENTIAL
ce)HFI DEN'? IM
will know by this time tomorrow evening. We will let you know,
and when the result comes through, let's just hope it is the
right one .. ---f.-r
The President:
thing.
(C)
Well, keep your chin up.
All right.
You did the right
(U)
The President: Okay, you've done a heck of a job turning this

thing around.
Take care my friend.
~
Alright, Bill.
The President:
We had

The President:
great time.
(U)
(U)
We had a great time too.
Goodbye.
(U)
'-- End of
Conversation --
CONFIDEN:fIAL
Goodbye.
(U)
GOJ?rFr'DE~JT IAL
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:

Blair ~
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: David Higgins, Sean Rice,
George Chastain, Joel Schrader and
Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
May 23, 1998, 1:36

1:46 p.m. EDT
Tony?

The President:
(U)
Hi Bill.
(U)
Well, congratulations.
Yes, thank goodness.
The President:
You got 71 percent.
Protestant vote was yet?
(U)
(U)
(U)
Do you know what the
I think it was 55 percent.
(U)
The President:
Do you think it was as high as that? I just
talked to Trimble and he was still moaning about the vote. He
sounded upbeat but he said he lost in his constituency.
jQ1
Prime Minister Blair: Overall, the most accurate poll was 55
percent. Yes, it was about five percent of the nationalist vote
that went no as well,so that brought figures down a bit. ~
The President:
I just did the math and it seems the vote is 53
percent of the nationalists and 49 percent for the Unionists.
Is that about right? ).G1'
emU'I ElENl'IAL
Classified by:
Glyn T. Davies
~::~:~~if~' ~~~'d~/~:~"~::AR:~:o:opy-1
{:-~:"'~-'--'.!...~-'-.~""'=:"~'_
...
_.r..... __ --_...,..:;;,~~~-...-A"""-~' :
CON'FIDEN'PIFtL
Prime Minister Blair: Roughly, possibly a little higher on the

Unionist side but they reckoned that probably about five or six
percent of the non-Unionist voted "No" so that brought the
figure down.
Of the 28 or 29 percent, that will probably bring
it down to about 24 percent or 23 percent. The Unionists voted
"No" 23 percent, see what I mean? It probably means just the
majority of the Unionists went with the resolution. ke1
The President:
That is great though.
God, it's great.
I'm so
happy.
You must be ecstatic. You turned all those undecided
)
voters -- almost 100 percent.
Prime Minister Blair: Again, a million thanks for what you did.
It began with the interview on Sunday.
From then on it began to
turn. We were at one point considerably behind, although we
were looking at under 60 percent. Jeffery Donaldson, who is a
reasonable part of the no vote, is on TV now saying he wants to
work with Trimble now. ~
The President:
I don't think Paisley can maintain the level of
support. You are going to have a significant share of those
people from the 25-30 percent who think the thing ought to be
given a chance to go, and that will give you three out of four,
or four out of five of the Unionist voters who want to see
peace. -tel
The process will play out -- but we ought to get Gerry and his
crowd to do a thing or two to get this off on a good footing.
He's going to be hereon Thursday for reasons unrelated to me to
make some speeches. But he always seems to pop into the White
House.
If you want to have your guys tell us in the next three.
or four days what you want me to say I would appreciate it.
(~
Are you going to see him yourself?
JGr
The President:
I don't know.
I was just calling to
congratulate a few of the guys and he told me about it.
I have
to check my schedule on whether I see him or not but we can
always have the message delivered. ~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
CONFIDEN'f'IAL
."_~?'-~-,.~~.~''--''':;"_'-':-''''':'--''..1-~-:''-~-'''-''--':--'"~~!,\.
r;~W:TON LI~RARY PHOTOCOPY
j:
.~:~~~:_ :. :_"_"'""-'_'-~,: .r'~';~~=~<~;"_':""':_J ,... ..:-1 ..
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'CONF'IDEN'I'IAL
The President:
shouldn't he?
He ought to chunk in some weapons pretty soon,

~
The President: Yes, let me ask you something else. We had a

group touring the United states and I met with them for 10-15
minutes. I am embarrassed that I can't remember their name -- I
think maybe it was Waves. It was a group who had relatives
killed. I think it would help if the IRA indicated where the
remains are -- without exposing them. Would that help? Is
there some way to do that without exposing them to criminal
l i ab i l i t y? J.e1'
Sure.
(U)
The President: If by Wednesday somebody can call Sandy or

Steinberg to let me know what kind of presentation I can make to
them if they tell where remains are and that they would not be
subject to criminal prosecution. That's a human touch that
might have a big psychological impact -- differentiate them from
the IRA. ...(..e-J
The President:
CONFIDENTIAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
I will get right on that.
Je1
OHFI DENT HlcL

The President:
I'll hammer it hard.
I thought if I can advance
a specific agenda -- I will work on getting a Sinn Fein person
to work on decommissioning. You just let me know if I can say
to him, "I want you to tell where those remains are and whoever
tells won't be subj ect to criminal liability." ~
Prime Minister Blair: Okay, I will get someone to come back to
your guys in the next few days.
~
The President:
Have a great celebration.
(U)

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I offered him a helluva deal to see if he will
do it.
I scraped together every penny, every pop gun I could in
72 hours.
I still think there is "a chance he won't do it.
f/2:)
The President:
All right Bill, all the best.
Goodbye.
(U)
CONFI DENT lAL
(U)
CONFIDENTIAL
CONFIDENTIAL
PARTICIPANTS:
PRESIDENT CLINTON
BRITISH PRIME MINISTER BLAIR
LOCATION:
EAST HAMPTON, NEW YORK
NOTE TAKERS:
LARRY WRIGHT, TOM CROWELL, MATT SIBLEY, JOEL

SCHRADER, JAMES SMITH, STEVE SIMON
DATEmME:
31 JULY 1998/1609-1642 EDT
THE PRESIDENT: Tony?

PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: Hi, Bill.
THE PRESIDENT: Hey, how are you?
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: I'm looking forward to my holiday. I start tomorrow. I've been
reshuffling my cabinet this week.
THE PRESIDENT: You have? Who'd you change?
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: Quite a loti
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
I'm doing fine. How are things with youl;;?;---L......;;;;';';;;';;";:;;;====-';;';";':";;':';=...J......_-_....J
THE PRESIDENT: Good.
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: I'm really looking forward to your visit to Ireland.
THE PRESIDENT: We are trying to work out the final schedule. You and Cherie are
coming up to see us, we'll be there together, right?
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: That is right. We're still trying -we came through the
Drumcree situation, got through a terrible thing. The tragedy of the kidsc-THE PRESIDENT: It sobered them up though, didn't it?
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: Yes, it did. We still have a lot of problems.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
\ .!.NT~.kIBRA~'Y:PfIoTqco~i
.'. 1
, -... --__ __ ;.
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:
.
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1:.: ....
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
THE PRESIDENT: Let me tell you where we are. We are having terrible trouble with
Janet Reno. I think the FBI must be working on her. If you know anything about this
Starr business, you know law enforcement agencies are not really under direction of the
President. What she is saying is that this is coddling terrorists and making concessions
to get a trial. That is a policy statement and not her call, and I can disagree. Then she
raised all these questions as to whether it was legally sufficient. If you say there is no
British or Scottish objection to the character or legality of the trial, it is your law; it's not
our judgment to make. What I am trying to get her to do is give me an opinion saying
she disagrees as a matter of policy, but Justice can find no fault from the point of view of
the law. Then I think we are OK.
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: Ri ht.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b (d)
THE PRESIDENT: You got it. That is where I am trying to go.

PRIME MINISTER BLAIR:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I
THE PRESIDENT:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: Bill, a cou Ie of other things. Kosovo.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
THE PRESIDENT: I agree.

I.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)

i
:C,..
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, <~.~~::~t~~& ~')~. .-~~~.,~~t~~,:.;~~, ~ _;i'~:_;.~~.-~~ ;,.~~A~}
CBfflBENTtAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
THE. PRESIDENT: The KLA has put us in a tough position.

PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: Yes.
fr,
==E;.::::O=.1::::3::::5:;:26=,=se=c=ti=on=1=.=4(:;:b=)(::::d)::::;------,
THE PRESIDENT: Alright.

PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: One other thing, on the Middle East peace process.
THE PRESIDENT: It's ve
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: Right. Good. OK, Bill.

THE PRESIDENT: What else do you know?
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: Not much. I can't wait to go on holiday. I have got the flu this
week and am a bit under the weather. Basically, I'm fine and looking forward to my
holiday. But I have reshuffled my cabinet and done my spending plan. We will have an
economic downturn this next year, and we have to be careful about that. I called Stan
Greenberg today.
THE PRESIDENT: Yeah?
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: Yes, he did some polling for us.
THE PRESIDENT: You know, the funny thing is our growth was down to 1.4 percent this
quarter. It was 5.4 percent last quarter, but we lost ~ painton the GM strike and a full
point off the Asian downturn already. We have got to do something about Japan. I am
very discouraged about what Obuchi and Miyazawa have said. Miyazawa, when he was
Prime Minister, he was already about 72 or 68.
PRIME MINISTE,R BLAIR:
I E.O. 13526, section l.P}{4:-k
.~ . . ~:~~~~~RAR1'PBbTbCOPY ;~;:;
J )~i~~l-~__ ~.,.~oL~~~ ~'U'_L/:J'! t
THE PRESIDENT:
What they are worried about is not being

able to stimulate growth in their economy with tax cuts because they put these curlicues
in them and people in Japan take the money and save it, because they don't think they
are permanent or adequate. They think if they do all this bank restructuring, in the
absence of increased demand and demand for exports, a" it will do is just contract the
economy and further deflation. What we have to do is try to work with them to get the
necessary mix. I have been prepared to eat lower growth this year just to sop up some
of their exports so they wouldn't go down, but this whole thing is going to slow what I
think would be a boom in Europe and it is going to brake our expansion unless we can
turn Japan around. I don't think there is enough money to move Asia there
. independently, without Japan coming back in Indonesia and all the other places. I just
don't see it.
L...,--_--,-_ _ _ _---,_--:_ _ _ _ _- '
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: What do you think we have to do?

THE PRESIDENT: What we have to do is find a way to be supportive of them without
pushing, nudging them along and not humiliating them so they don't hunker down and
turn inward. It's a funny little balance we have to strike but we need a coherent strategy.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b) d)
but if I get an opening may press 1m an may e

ca you an w
something. We have to get the Europeans involved. What's going on in Germany?
Schroeder is going to win isn't he?
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: I think so.
THE PRESIDENT: Is Stan polling for Schroeder?
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: I think he's doing some work along those lines.
THE PRESIDENT: When I was there before I didn't see any --I think Kohl is where
Churchill was at the end of World War II: the people are grateful but ready for a change.
PRIME MINSITER BLAIR: "'=E=.=O=.1=3=52=6=,=se=ct=io=n=l=.4=(b=)(=d=): : : ; - - - - - - - - - l
,THE PRESIDENT:!
. -_ _hIE~.~O~.~13~5~2~6,~s~ec~ti~o~n~1.~4~(d~)~_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _~I'
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)td)
CONFJDENTML
THE PRESIDENT: How long has Helmut been in, 16 years? That's a hell of a long
time.
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: That's right.
THE PRESIDENT: Very clever.

RIME MIN ISTER BLlAR: IrI=E=.=O=.1=3=52=6=,=se=ct=io=n=l=.4=(b=)=(d=):::;--------1
THE PRESIDENT: If the vote is close enough, he should do that. I still think Netanyahu
would have been better off doing that.
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: Me, too.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
THE PRESIDENT: You ought to tell him what I told you.
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: I agree with you. Just today we had the announcement of
job losses here as a result of Asia. It's the first time it's been brought home.
THE PRESIDENT: I am really very concerned about it. The first place it hit us was in
agriculture. We export about half our grain and about 40 percent goes to Asia and we
are down 30 percent this year.
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: Gee. Thirty percent.
THE PRESIDENT: And we can't get new markets because of bumper crops and the
. climate change caused by el Nino. I think with 1.4 percent growth, unemployment will go
up a little. I just don't see any set of scenarios where we do better unless we get Japan
turned around. I would guess that you're seeing increased flows to Latin America like we
are. Thank God for Latin America, they are doing quite well.
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: Absolutely right.
PRESIDENT CLINTON:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
PRIME MINISTE~ BLAIR:,I!10pe~t.,..... _~<=-----='-",:'.'i'
;,.' ~!; ---,,~~.~.- .~~ -
i,
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fNTONLIBRARYPHen;OCOPY ..
~" ;',,': j;:; ,tL
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.
.;
GONFIOENTb\L DRAFT
THE PRESIDENT: Anyway, I think our first order of business should be to deal with the
Japanese government. The Chinese are hanging in there and have not devalued, but
their target was revised downward. I feel I they will hang in there several more months.
There is a limit to the pounding they can take, expectations have been raised. You can
see, it is so palpable, they are proud as hell they have stayed strong and have not had to
devalue. But at some point, they'll have a hard time hanging on. I think the quicker we
could have some sort of EU-US initiative - This was this huge real estate boom, but the
Japanese stock market lost 50 percent of its value in the last five years. We're just not
getting any reinvestment in growth. The way they have done all tax changes to date,
people are saving the money, and they're spending all this money on a world-class big
infrastructure that hasn't done anything. I know they are frustrated because, basically,
they-have taken a whole series of half-measures and it has not helped them. They have
dragged Asia down.
THE PRESIDENT: Talk to Prodi. They've been very good at working with us, by the
way. Bob Rubin sent a/l our best people over there, but their political mechanism is
inadequate.
II E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
THE PRESIDENT: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: "----;:=E==.=O=.==13==5=26=,=se=c=ti=on=1.=4(::::b=(==d)::::,-----i
THE PRESIDENT:
L I_ _ _
---"-I=E.=O=.=13=5=26;,=se=ct=io=n=l=.4~(d",",)='.I_ _ _.....l
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b
THE PRESIDENT: Yeah, the reform movement had a false birth under Hosokawa. Did
you ever meet him?
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: No.
THE PRESIDENT:
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: Yes, and maybe not the last. Jospin was here last week. He
really loved his time in Washington.
CONFIDENTIAL
DRAFT
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR:\-;========::::;-------~

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
THE PRESIDENT: Well, that's good. France and Brazil are two countries that have
permanent governments, for good or bad, but have inbred an anti-Americanism that
colors the atmosphere and the left in France had a lot of that, as well as the Gaullist
crowd, but! always admired the guy so much from a distance. You had a big influence
on him, too.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
THE PRESIDENT: I will follow up on Kosovo and get you a briefing on the Middle East.
It's a little more ambiguous than the last time we talked. Netanyahu has moved on some
issues and there is a chance we can break through. I didn't think he was bargaining in
good faith, but now I have seen some change and we might have a shot at it. We'll work
out Irish schedule and get the Attorney General to sign off on the legal adequacy as
soon as possible.
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: Again Bill, 101 percent support.
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, I appreciate it, goodbye.
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: Goodbye.
CONFIDEN'f'IhL
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Tony Campanella, Robert Ford,
Cindy Lawrence, Sean Tarver, Matthew Sibley
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
August 6, 1998, 4:46 p.m. - 5:06 p.m. EDT

Oval Office

The President:
Hi, Bill.
(U)
How are you doing? (U)

The President:
I'm fine, enjoying my holiday.
Are you in Tuscany?

The President:
Yes.
(U)
(U)
God I'm jealous.
Have you been to Sienna?
We're going there next week.
The President: Oh, that is a great place.

beautiful little town?
(U)
Yes, it is.
The President: When I

four star restaurant.
sign of a fish, like a
three-hour lunch there
was there about ten years ago,

I can't remember its name, but
peace symbol, or something.
I
and they had to carry me out.
Declassify On:
,i
(U)
(U)
Isn't that a
COMFIDEN'fIAL
Reason:
1. 5 (d)
(U)
(U)
I ate at a
it had a
had a
(U)
cm:rFIDE~H'IAL

It's a good place to be carried out from.
(U)
Are you on holiday?
The President:
The House is here for another month, one more
day actually and so we are all working here.
I am going to go
on holiday in ten or eleven days.
(U)
Weren't you up with Steven Spielberg?
(U)
The President:
I spent the weekend up in Long Island with him.
We talked about you. He and Tom Hanks came here last month and
showed me their movie "Saving Private Ryan," about Normandy,
before it was in the theater.
It's an enormous film, really
. good.
(U)
So you're back in your office.
(U)
The President: Yes, I'm sitting here in my office.

It's a
beautiful day outside.
I'm concerned about the Japanese
situation, really worried. But that is not why I called.
Gerhard Schroeder was here yesterday and we had a long talk.
He's apparently still leading the polls by a solid 5-8 points.
You think he is going to win don't you? kef
The President:
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
He just thinks it's time for a change?
je1
You can never tell for sure.
The President: Well, you know, it's the second time we've met;
it was much more relaxed this time.
The first time was in
Germany and I was on a campaign swing for Kohl
ou can
ima ine, but we had a good talk
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
GOHFIDEH'f IAL
COHFIDEHTIAL
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b )(d)
The President:
I E.O.13526, section 1.4(d) I
The longer you hang
around this business, it becomes apparent that very few people
make it this far by accident. They don't just give these jobs
away.
J.Ri
Yeah, I think that's true.
(U)
The President:
I called you to talk about Kosovo.
It is
getting worse. The headlines show that, but Milosevic is going
for a military solution. Serb security forces are not only
suppressing Albanian militants, but are also engaging in a
systematic campaign against the civilian population.
I think we
are getting closer to a major humanitarian disaster. ~
Milosevic has a sense of doing this under the threshold for NATO
military response because he believes that NATO will respond
only with a UN resolution, but Russia guarantees to block it.
My view is, at a minimum, we need to make him think again. We
need to finalize planning that we started, identify forces and
think about some sort of ultimatum to get him to stop the
offensive and restore autonomy for Kosovo.
~
I believe we ought to make it clear that, while we would like to
get UN authority, we can do it without it.
I know you differ
here, and Albright talked to Cook about asking the UN Security
Council for the necessary authority.
U21
Let me tell you we are headed to a collision on Kosovo and what
is going on in Russia.
I talk to Bob Rubin about every day.
I
am still quite concerned about their economy and about the
stability of the Yeltsin government. His health is
deteriorating and a lot of noise is being made about controls on
freedoms to get order in society. ..(.e)
CONFIDEN'PIAL
.4
CONFI DEN'I' IAL
What I'm afraid of is, if things get worse in Kosovo, a lot of

civilians will be dying and others turning into refugees.
If we
put Yeltsin into this box, he will be forced to abstain because
it is so bad and would really hurt him at home politically with
the economy the way it is, or he can keep with Primakov and veto
it and run the risk of alienating the rest of the world at the
very time he needs the most support from the international
community. While it is better to have UN support, I am very
worried about bringing this to a vote right now.
(C)
Milosevic thinks he has a free hand.
I talked to you and John
Major and I understand you have different system to decide legal
authority there.
One thing I had our guys do -- there is a
.basis:- there have been a number of cross-border incursions and
threats to international observers, which could be a trigger for
self-defense. Also, there is Milosevic's record of threat to
international peace and security and then the humanitarian
atrocities.
I think we could construct a legal case, but if I
can't convince you about it, we don't have a chance with Chirac
and Kohl. ).ef
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Let me ask you this then. Shouldn't we try to
get Chirac and Kohl to sign off on ultimatums we would give
Milosevic? Word of planning would be somewhat helpful.
Convince Chirac and Kohl that a UN resolution is not legally
necessary.
I know how Chirac is on this, but it will hurt
Yeltsin if we put him in a position of having to sign off or
block now. .J.e1
/J
[------------------The President:
We can nose around it. His economic problems
are horrible and his internal political problems are awful.
I'm
very worried about this.
Yeltsin was going to go on vacation in
COMPI DEN'I'IAL
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
COWFIDEN'fIAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
August, but then he had to come early, even though his health
needs the rest.
I am going over there and meet with him for a
few days in September, but I'm very worried about this. ~
].
'------------/
The President:
I don't know, we have to work on that.
We have
to work through another option, apart from a Security Council
resolution.
They would have to raise holy hell, but, in the
end, if we handle it in the right way, it would be the best of
three bad alternatives. Better than forcing them to veto it .
. Better than forcing him to eat it. My problem is I am afraid
what happens if we let it deteriorate more. There is a rumor,
news story, of 500 people in a mass grave.
It may not be true,
but the other side is trying to force us in, too. We have all
those problems you and I discussed before. People want us to be
their air force to get independence. But I think the near term
problem is we went through all this with the Bosnian civil war
and I don't want to replay it with another Muslim population .
..+er
The President:
Yes, that is exactly what's doing it and
Primakov gave it to him. ).e1
The President:
down. Kinkel's
impact on their
basically it is
I'm going to call Helmut first and nail him

been aware of where the French are. Given the
election, but might help him electorally. But
a domestic election, so my guess is no effect.
J,e)
COWFIDENTL"rL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
COHFIDEHTI1'.L
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President: We will nose around some more.

They may decide
to shape this and go along with us, but right now I don't see
it. ..J!Cr
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President: Maybe they will want to try to go along with us

on a resolution, but I doubt it. Let me mention a couple of
.other-things.
The Security Council had a discussion about Iraq
today with Kofi.
I think we have to playa measured game here.
I think this is a reaction by Iraq to the fact the IAEA says
they couldn't recommend ending the inspection regime and going
to monitoring on the nuclear issue.
~
This was a serious report that we had nothing to do with, on
very specific issues.
It could be they simply overacted, but my
instinct right now is to not come out with a bellicose reaction
at this point. We ought to be relaxed and work with the
Secretary General and focus on inspection requirements. We will
just say that we will postpone sanctions reviews until Iraq
achieves compliance. ~
Butler was very upfront.
I think the Iraqis may have been
showing a little leg about it. About every six months they try
to provoke us with their rhetoric, but they may come back. With
all these other problems in the world we should give Kofi a
chance to work through this.
If not, then we can say to hell
with them and we leave the sanctions on indefinitely. ~
What about these. reviews?
The President:
I think they over read the IAEA refusal to
recommend ending the inspection regime and going to monitoring
on nuclear.
The IAEA said they had just a few more things to do
here.
It would have been reviewed in August for monitoring in
October but, for whatever reason, they reacted the way they did.
Now is not the time for us to overact.
They probably hope we
will do that and spend a lot of money moving the fleet back in,
but I don't want to do that right now.
We'll monitor it
closely, but, on the other hand, don't let them think they can
wish this away. ~
CONF'I DEN1'L"xL
CONFHlEN'fIAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I think we might, but hopefully we'll have our
course on Kosovo by then. Two other things.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
I talked to'you about Lockerbie. I have the decision memo in

front of me and I will work through it as quickly as I can and
get back to you on that. ~
L-----1:1=E=.O=,=1=35=2::6=,s:=ec=:ti=:o=n=1.::4(:::;b::::)(=d)"==!.._ _ _.......J1
The President:
1)
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
Prime Minster Blair:
Yes.
keJ
The President: You have more riding on it than I do.

The
Scottish regime has enough restrictions as it is. Go back to
your holiday, tell Cheri I said hi, have a wonderful time, and
drink a glass of wine for me tonight. ~
The President:
Thanks.

The President:
All the best to you.

(U)
We are thinking of you.
We're doing fine.
Thanks Bill.
Thank you.
(U)
End of Conversation
CONFIDENTIAL
(U)
(U)
(U)
CO!<fPIDCN'fIAL
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: David Higgins, Tony Campanella,
George Chastain, Jenny McGee, Chris Jansen
and Ralph Sigler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:'
August 16, 1998, 7:51-8:04 p.m. EDT

The Residence
The President:
Tony?
(U)
Hi, Bill.
(U)
The President:
Tony. Well, I just called to tell you I was
thinking about you.
You've had a miserable day.
(U)
The President:
Yes, it's pretty grim.
What the hell happened?
(U)
Who did it?
Aer

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Do you believe the person who gave the warning
made a mistake or did it deliberately? )Q7
The President:
The truth is, we don't know.
Jer
Do you still want me to come?
CG}{fI DE,HT 1AL
Classified by:. Glyn T. Davies

Reason:
1.5 (b, id).;A-~ .. -_~;;.r---~~-- ----~--.:,<
Declassify On: ! 8/1~~~ ". 1
: '. i-'e
TON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY' :
J.
--;-~'::~-"" ::,:~~;.. _.__-:~. ~~,: ;.";";~: :".r. "-'f-...' -"~-,_.,;",,_,,,-,:---~,:~, .;.... ~,!':
COlifl"IDElif'f IAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
---ll (,0'
L . . -_ _ _ _
The President:
It is probably more important now than before.
You need to decide as time goes by if we need to visit the site
and make a stop.
(.t')
Prime Minister Blair: Absolutely.
I've visited some of the
victims and families tonight.
It was pretty harrowing. kef
Pretty tough, isn't it? ~
The President:
Prime _Minister Blair:

-helpless. ~
Yes, it's an awful feeling -- completely
The President:
I just had to sit with all those people, with
their families, who got murdered in Africa.
There's nothing you
can say, but it matters to them to know the leader of their
country came to see them, so you did a good thing. Even if you
felt like you have five thumbs. ~
C~----The President:
Can Gerry Adams help you get these people?
Je'(
~--------------~
The President:
Do you think they will? They could do more good
in less time by helping you get these guys.
tGt
//J
prime Minister Blra_i_r_:__I_________________________________________
1....
_________
The President:
Did they condemn it at all?
~I____________________~
The President: Not just Gerry Adams, but did the IRA condemn
it?
What do you want them to say? --fE-)Prime Minister Blair:
'--------~/
CONl"IDENTIAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
COHPIDEH'PIAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
If who proposes?
The President: And they will agree? Both will agree? You
would like the IRA to say, look, what happened is a part of the
past, it's allover, and if the chief constables can agree on
new security measures, they will support them? I'll see what I
can do.
(Q1"
L-______________________________________________------------------
The President:
I think this is an opportunity for him, too.
%
The President:
I've got it.
I will get on this right away.
I
guess I'll have to wait until morning to call them, but I'll be
up late tonight. ~
The President:
Okay.

The President:
name?
(R)
Ninety people, 15 hardcore.
Do they have a
Prime Minister Blair: \
com IDEN"fIAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
All right I'll get on this .
The President:
...(..G-J-
Okay, got it.
Prime Mini.ster Blair:
yz)
Bill, how are you?
yzr
The President:
I've been up to my ass in this Africa bombing,
because there's a lot more than meets the eye on what happened
in Africa.
If we were on a secure line, I could tell you more.
But I'll see what I can do.
I'll put Sandy on this tomorrow.
I'll make some calls tomorrow. )e(
'-------------Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Damn right.
]
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
If Sinn Fein really forms an alliance with the
Unionists, that leaves the other group out. You'll have a
localized version of what's happened around the world, where
terrorists are not associated with or funded by governments.
In
this case, what you've got is a cell.
~
I don't know who's giving them money, but we're going to
increasingly have to deal with terrorists with no ties to any
nation-state, including Iran, if the precedent there keeps on
track. But in the case of a lot of Middle East and African
countries, we could be dealing with these people, like in those
old James Bond movies with SPECTRE and Dr. No. We're going to
have a twenty-first century version of those.
ycr
We're already dealing with drug cartels. The Colombian Army has
been defeated in battle four times in the last year with narcodealers.
They do not have the physical capacity to extract
these people.
They don't engage in terrorism; they just kill
people who get in the way of people making money.
If you can
CON rlfJEN'I' IAL
CQ~JFIPEN'PIAL
get somebody worth about 200 or 300 million bucks to operate

this and earn enough money per year through stock earnings and
interest accounts, and if you're prepared to spend it building
an internati.onal network. -ter
Some of these guys earn enough money in terrorism and think,
compared to whatever they get paid, it's more than they were
making before. My worry is for all these IRA offshooots,
isolated cells who were kept apart and were kept isolated from
centralized control, that psychologically they may not be able
to handle it.
If what their real prospect is that they could
lay down their arms and not go to jail and take low-paying jobs
instead of terrorism, a lot of them may not be able to
psychologically handle going to work everyday and carrying a
1 unchbox . )ef
What kind of psychological message are you sending to them?
What kind of economic message? Have you had someone working on
getting them college payments or job help? My worry is these
people will think, "I cannot imagine leading this deadly dull
life. ff I may be wrong, but I think these people personally
cannot imagine living in a different way.
If you're only
dealing with 15 killers and 75 others in a support system, what
thought can you give to offering them an interesting life? But
I'm all into dull these days.
I'm all for a little more dull.
This really is a problem, Tony.
~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President: Absolutely, and infused with meaning.

You ought
to have a really smart person think about the psychological and
economic dynamics about how they would spend their days, and do
a concerted effort on persuading them how else they could spend
their days.
It may be B.S., but I think it's part of the
problem and is worth thinking about.
You've got a lot of
brilliant people over there that could figure out a
psychological campaign to deal with them specifically. You
don't have much to lose and you might have some benefit from it.
I will do these things you asked.
I'm really sorry, Tony.
I'm
so sorry this happened.
You know, I was afraid this would
happen before the vote.
I was afraid they might try to kill
Gerry or David.
jQ1
COHFI DENT L'\L
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
CQNFIDEN'P IAL
The President:
If you could bust these guys in a hurry, even
pick up just one or a couple of these guys.
~
The President:
Okay,

The President:
We will try to do that.

I'll get on this.
Best of luck to you, too.
Thanks, man.
Goodbye.
(U)
CONFIDEU'PIAL
Goodbye.
(U)
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: David Higgins, Lyle Harrison,
Cindy Lawrence, Liz Rogers, Jim Smith and
Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
August 20, 1998, 4:52 - 4;59 p.m. EDT

Oval Office
Hello, Bill.
(U)
The President:
Hi, Tony.
I am sorry the other phone was not
working.
Thank you for your statement.
(U)
(U)
Not at all.
It is important it is done.
~~~~~
The President;
Yes. We thought they were having a big meeting
there today, but we won't know for sure for a few hours.
This
place we hit is maybe the biggest terrorist camp in the world,
with 500-600 people there at a time. We thought we had good
intelligence that the leaders planned to meet there, but
unfortunately i t was reported in the international press; there
was no hint in our press of any consideration of an attack. l81
There was a report yesterday of rumors, and more than rumors,
that we were concerned that they planned to attack a third
embassy.
We also took down one of their cells in the Balkans,
so they are annoyed at us anyway. I'm sure you know this guy
signed a Fatwa and said that he would kill thousands of our
people.
J.81.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
SECRET
SECRET
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

I am very grateful for
your statement.
Prime Minister Blair: Not at all.

happened tonight? ~
So, what has actually
The president:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

The President:
So
got in Afghanistan,
training facility.
the worst case, it
Yeah.
that is where we are. We don't know what we

but in the worst case we took out his
So we have to hope for the best, but even in
was worth doing.
E.O.13526, section 1.4(c)(d)
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b )(d)
SECRET
The President :
Yes.
(U)
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President: Let me tell you, I need to speak to the

Pakistani Prime Minister before I go on TV, but I need to call
you next week to talk to you about Ireland before I come. ~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b )( d)
-The President:
All right, my friend.

The President:
(U)
All the very best to you.
Goodbye.
End of Conversation
SECRE'f
Goodbye.
(U)
CONFIDENTIAL
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:

Blair (U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Bonnie Glick, Joel Schrader,
Liz Rogers, Jenny McGee, Jim Smith and
Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
August 27, 1998, 4:32 - 4:54 p.m. EDT

Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts
Tony?

The President:
Hi.
(U)
Hi, Bill.
(U)
(U)
How are things?
(U)
The President: Oh, fine.

I just interrupted my vacation a
little bit today.
I went into Massachusetts and did an event.
It was great.
I got to work a line and speak to a cheering
crowd.
It wasn't something organized.
It was just put together
in two days.
There were thousands.
It was amazing.
(U)
Good, I'm pleased.
(U)
The President:
This is my best state. You know, if I'd been in
Wyoming, they probably would have been shooting at me. You
never can tell.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: Good, I'm pleased about that.
you had all this stuff with the hurricane, too.
(U)
The President:
That's all right.
a lot worse.
(U)
It could have been a hell of
cmlFI DENTIAL
Reason:
1.5(b,Q)
Decla"ify On, .
I'm sorry
8/2t;;-;;;::::;:::':oPY~1
-f._:':-"!-:;'~-_ .~~ -__ ,_,:_,-;---.-:..~:~~~.:.._~..-_~ ..........._._,;. __ ,,:;:;--__ -,::._./.,,:.:,,:,~-
COHFIDEHTIPrL

holiday. (U)
The President:
I'm really sorry to interrupt your
Go ahead.
(U)

I just wanted to raise a couple of
things.
The first is Ireland.
I know that my eople have
talked to your people today.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
CONTI DENT IAb
COHFIDEN'fIAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President: I
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I'll do it. When do you want me to call him?
Today, tomorrow, as quickly as I can?
(e)
I think so, Bill.
yC)
The President: What's your view of the timetable? What's your

preferred timetable where all the leaders meet face-to-face?
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
That would be great.

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Let me ask you this. What's the date that Gerry
does the actual decommissioning? When does the IRA actually
have to turn some guns over? A week after that?
~
CONE IEJEN'l'I1'l:L
COHFIDEN'FIAL
lE.o. 13526, section
1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Let me ask, what kind of understanding are you
trying to reach on the volume of weapons and type of ammunition?
$)
IE.O.
13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
So it's something de Chastelain can say is
sUbstantial and must be significant.
I got it.
I'll call him .
.Je)
Okay, Bill, that would be fantastic.
The President: Now, what the hell do you think is going on over
in Russia? I've got Strobe Talbott, my Deputy Secretary of
State, over there in Russia. We're watching it closely. Our
stock market took a big hit with this rumor that he would
resign. Yeltsin's in the dacha, Chernomyrdin's working on
confirmation.
There are rumors that Yeltsin would resign once
Chernomyrdin is confirmed.
I don't know, but I know this:
They
are absolutely insistent that I come.
I can't initiate my not
going.
It's kind of a mess. That could sink their economy or
politics sure enough.
kCl
Their economy is still rapidly deteriorating. The Central Bank

is still under pressure to inject liquidity into the banking
sector.
The problem is when they do, the banks turn around and
take the money out of the country, and so there's no control
over that money.
There's no clear economic policy, and I think
they've got this new Trilateral Duma Commission, talking about
renationalizing industries and price controls. ~
What I think they have to do is bite the bullet and pass a
decent regulatory system and tax system and a decent bank and a
decent social welfare system~
I think there's alienation among
the people because social welfare has always been a fraud in
CmJFIDEN'fIlrL
CONFIDEHTL~iL
Russia.
The Economist a couple of weeks ago had a great little
piece on the missing social agenda. The charities are taking
over a lot of it, but the reason ordinary people felt so totally
insecure was they really don't think there's any social safety
net. --fC!
I think it's worth going over to try to work through this.
We've got to reassert our commitment and reassert the importance
of the weapons agreements we can still make, but tell them
they've still got to embrace democracy and free markets and have
tough Russian solutions to tough Russian problems.
lE.o. 13526, section 1.4(d) I

You can make money out of that under any circumstances,
even when it's screwed up, and God knows, it was screwed up.
It's a cash cow.
f,.e')
lE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
These social pressures, nationalism, retrograde
socialism, were present in Poland, Hungary, and to a lesser
extent, the Czech Republic.
For all kinds of reasons, they were
able to make the transition with a lot less fallout.
Russia is
a big country that could basically suck in a lot of stuff from
Warsaw Pact nations.
I am appalled to the extent there are not
'the functioning intermediary institutions without which neither
a democracy nor market economy can succeed.
I'm quite concerned
now that a working majority of the populace is for the
suspension of some democratic freedom just to have a strong
leader who'll get the damn show on the road again and make the
trains run on time.
They're disappointed in the executive but
also disappointed in the Duma going too much the other way. ~
The President:
If you think about it, it's quite interesting
how many places in the world there are -- including in your
discussion. with me -- where, at least to outsiders, the econom~c
answer or the political answer seems clear. And if you could
eOMFlDEWf lAL
COlU'IElENl'IAL
just get over the hard knock of doing it, i t ' l l be better on the
other side, but the political system is unable to cross the
hurdle.
Both of us have been rather fortunate that our
political systems are still functioning well enough to do what
has to be done. ~
The biggest economic tragedy is not Russia, but Japan. Even
with their massive infrastructure and understanding of the
modern economy, they still can't put together the political
decisions that are manifestly in their interest.
I don't know
if Europe is on the upsurge of growth.
There's still some
internal growth that could be generated by France and Germany by
internal changes. ~
I don't know how much longer we can s'ustain our growth without
some more growth in Japan. We're absorbing 30 percent of
Chinese exports now, 50 percent more than our world GDP share,
and there's a huge increase in Japanese exports.
They can't buy
our imports, and the Chinese can take a lot more but they have
certain controls.
I'm worried that if we have three quarters
rather than one quarter of economic slowdown, there'll be an
increase in the trade deficit. We'll see a whole round of
protectionist pressure build up again, which will affect Europe,
if only indirectly. jQt
I think the Japanese issue is still the biggest economic issue.
The Russia issue is a political issue.
If they get a
dictatorial leader, they'll be much harder to deal with on
Kosovo and other things, I'm afraid.
I think it's worth my
going over there.
I'll meet with the Duma leaders from other
parties and have a little no-BS conversation about what's going
on here and hopefully reduce a little of their paranoia about
America and the West.
It may not be a conventional success, but
I'll go as long as they want me to come -- unless Yeltsin
resigns in the next two days -- if nothing else but to talk to
Chernomyrdin, who is physically and mentally quite alert and
strong, personally. ~
IE.O.
13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
What I'm worried about with Yeltsin is -- in my
last conversation I had with him, he said all the right things,
even on the things we disagree on, he said all the right things,
at least from his point of view, but he really seemed profoundly
tired in a way I had never heard him before.
I am afraid his
energy, his will to go on may be sapped.
~
COHFI DgNT ll'd,
COHFIDHTIAL

The President:
Yeah, I'm afraid so.
But there's nothing I can do about it.
yz)
IE.O.
13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President: One thing, we've got to do everything we can to

keep their IMF program going. You know, they've only gotten,
what, $7 billion out of $21 billion. There may be some other
"little thin"gs we could do, which I'm working on. But the hard
truth is we will be pouring good money after bad if the banks
keep taking the money and putting it in Europe. I'm worried
about Russia becoming like Africa.
It's bad enough the market
takes the pipe, but the citizens of the country who ought to be
putting their own wealth in there are shipping it out, and you
have massive capital outflows instead of internally generated
growth. We've got to talk through all that with them.
They
think they've been taken for a ride on an economic theory that
they were not able to embrace.
~
Hello?
Hello?
Bill?
(U)
The President:
Yeah, I can barely hear you.
It sounds like
four other people are having a conversation on the same line.
(U)
You were saying?
(U)
The President: No, that's it. Look, if I find out anything

about Russia in the next few days before I come, I'll call you .
..kef
1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I got it. And I'll get to work on it.
Honestly, I think politically for him, for Gerry, it might be
easier for him to do the decommissioning if it comes about with
me being there.
There's a perception in Northern Ireland, and
I've tried not to do this, but there's a perception that I've
tilted more toward him than Trimble.
In that case, it could be
CONFIDEN'l?IAL
COHFIDEH'FIAL.
an advantage and could make it a little easier, if it all goes

around this issue. )Xi
The President:
Let me get on it, and I'll give you a report.
-*'t
The President:
All right, Bill.
Goodbye.
(U)
(U)
Goodbye.
(U)
End of Conversation
CONFIDEHTIAL
CONFIDEN'fIAL
THE WHITE HOUSE
WAE=iH I NGTON

E.O.13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)
ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, documeut no. 33

SUBJECT:

(U)
The President
PARTICIPANTS:
Notetakers: Tony Campanella, Doug Bayley,

Liz Rogers, Cindy Lawrence and Lawrence
Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
August 30, 1998, 2:29

The Oval Office
The President:
Hello.

with the Queen.
(U)
The President:
Tony?
Yes.
Well, good.
2:38 p.m. EDT
(U)
How are you?
I'm up at Balmoral
Lucky for you.
Is it still light?
(U)

doing?
(U)
It is a beautiful evening.
How are you
The President:
I bet it is.
I'm doing fine, working.
I just
got off the phone with Kohl on Russia. How are we doing on
Ireland? -+er
Prim Minister.Blair: Many, many thanks indeed for speakin
with Gerr Adams. Where we are?
IE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)

The President:
That's what he told me.
COHFIDEH'fIAL
Reason: 1.5(b,-d)
. _ . _ ..~ ______ ---,.---::----",.'
Declassify On:! 8 / ~~. -j"';'>~
~~
:
,
'f,:;
~TON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY ..
~-.:::~_:.. ~:~~'.
. __ ~ _~, ~_~.-'-...:.. ' . ~
~_l-!.<'._r.-,
CONFIDEN'fI1II:L
IE.O. 13526, section tA(b)(d)
The President: Well, you know do you think we can get them to
meet next week, while I am there? )J2f
It's possible you know.
Not impossible.
je(
The President:
It would be huge and help me enormously here
with what I am dealing with.
You are here on Thursday?
The President:
They could obviously do it in Belfast, or they
could go to Omagh with us.
It would be profoundly symbolic.
~
C@JFIDEN'l'IAL
COUFIDEN'fIAL
The President:
I'm not asking you to promise.
I had a tough
talk with Gerry Adams.
It was probably worth doing even though
he didn't say yes on five and six.
~
-The President: When I see you, I really hope we have some time
to talk about Russia and Kosovo too. ~
The President:
I agree with that.
do is get him confirmed, and
The first thing we have to
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

It is rea
frustrating; all the money t a wen In as gone back out
$7.5 billion.
I'll see what I can do over there and work like
hell to influence the Duma people. Keep your fingers crossed.
When I see you we'll get a chance to talk about it.
I can't
wait to see you. J...G1

The President:
Yes, likewise.
See you soon.
Goodbye.
Goodbye.
(U)
(U)
End of Conversation
cmfFI DEN'fIAL
CONFIDEN'l'IPtL
THE WHITE HOUSE
E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)

SUBJECT:
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Cindy Lawrence, Robin Rickarad,
Matt Sibley, Joel Schrader, James Smith, Don
Bandler and Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
September 11, 1998, 4:33 p.m.-4:58 p.m. EDT

Oval Office
The President:
Tony.
How are you doing?

I'm fine.
(V)
I'm fine.
How are things?
(V)
The President:
anyway.
(V)
We're doing pretty good here.
That's my gut,

I saw you on television; I thought you
were pretty good, actually.
(U)
The President:
This morning?

The President:
Yes.
(V)
(U)
Yes, it was pretty good.
It's coming together.
(U)

I think that is right really.
(U)
we're thinking of you.
The President:
Thanks.
What's up?
Anyway,
(V)

Two things.
I wanted to update you on
the Northern Ireland situation.
~
CONFIDElf'PlkL
Reason:
1.5{b,d)
Declassify On:
9/2lL.!;l:8' ___f"~~,,--~<~~-_c.---~-L\
~:'~T~NLmRA~Y PHOTOCOPY
~,?~..: ._~~~_~'-.:..,--~..;-.,...J. '<=';~~~_ .\,-.:...~.--:A_-.-:<-'- .'
CONFIDEN'l'IAL
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I
The President:
Tell me where we are.
y1
The President:
In theory that is what they agreed to.
willing to do any kind of schedule? keJ
The President:
Are they
What is the main Sinn Fein argument against it?
-+er
The President:
The IRA never disarmed and it can't look like
the Unionists forcing them to do so? yc)
The President:
Well, they made a deal, though.
+Gt
GONF! DEN'l'IAL
IE.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d)I
IE.o.
COHFIDE1H' IAL
13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The fact is there is a very

good feeling in Northern Ireland right now.
Your visit went
very well. -tel
The President:
It was wonderful.
-f+-
The President:
I agree with that. Everybody is so up. The
trip to the Irish Republic was unbelievable.
There were 50,000
in Limerick.
Bertie is in a strong position to weigh in with
Sinn Fein.
ter
=-oJ

L l_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
--~
The President:
Let me ask you something.
I've been thinkin
about all the possible permutations and angles.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
The President:
I understand why the schedule is not enough.
Then he is giving them something concrete that he can't take
back and he is gettin something symbolic.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I
COHFI DEN'l'IAL
CONFIDENTIAL
The President:
Let me ask, I understand you announced that you
will leave your army in the barracks while your police do the
actual patrols. Are they putting any pressure on you to make a
symbolic withdrawal of British forces? fer
1L-____~IE=.=O=.=13=5=26=,=s=ec=t=io=n=1=.4=(b=)=~=)~I______~
The President:
Would that matter to Gerry? Jim Steinberg
doesn't think you could work a deal with him.
I tried to
him to ex lain to me what the roblem was
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
This is a big hang-up and they are not ready to
cross the psychological divide.
I understand and sympathize
with them; I am kind of an expert in that.
But they did make a
deal.
I wonder, it seems to me the biggest barrier was they
have talked themselves into this position that is linguistically
accurate, but politically unrealistic. ~
The deal said they would get in the Executive branch when they
get the votes, and they would decommission in two years.
They
never disarmed, but here they would be disarmed to get something
they are legally entitled to anyway.
What if we could get the
schedule out and there was a symbolic decommissioning, for
something outside the agreement, so they would not look like
they were coerced by the Unionists? +er
I E.O. 13526, section IA(d)
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
Do you want me to raise this with him in a whatif way? I won't tell him I talked to you about this. ~
CONFIDENTIAL
~~:,~.f'':'"':~~~~~-:'c-~ ~-~'--- "--~.~,
C~~T~~ LIBIU.RY PHOTOCOPY'
'';-'.:'_~ ,---~_:,-,::,._<-;;~-,:-",~::...~~",_;"--<-t.'";~""-_._::~..". r.~_
CONFIDEN'fIAL
\~--------------~
The President: Are there any other sort of permutations or
circumstances that might permit them to do it? keJ
The President: When I talked to Bertie he thought he could take

those guys down that did the Omagh bombing. I thought it would
be sooner. I had the impression it was imminent when I left
Ireland. ~
LP_r_~_.m_e
__M
__i_n_i_s_t_e_r__B
__l_a_i_r_:__/ ____________
The President:
------------------------~
Of course they do.

\
The President: An actual arrest, even if it only just one

person -- you've got 29 dead people there. It would be a real
coup for Trimble.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
argument you could make.
J&r

The President:
COHFIDEN'l'IAL
Do you want me to raise that with him?
yn
CONFIDEN'l'IAL
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President:
I'll get on it.
(;tl
The President:
I agree. The chemistry is a lot better than
what I thought. We cOincidentally have a big Irish celebration
here in about 30 minutes. They are applauding George Mitchell.
I might nose around with some of the Sinn Fein supporters to see
what I can do to nudge them a bit. These Americans still have a
littl:e bit-of influence because they have money. ).e1
The President:
schedule. Jc.ef
Let's explore this idea -- arrests -- plus a

The President:
I bet you anything, if you explain that the arms
thing is not a big deal because they have a stash, and they are
easily replaced.
Whereas, the arrest of people who murdered 29
folks in a country that is so small would be a tangible act of
good faith.
I think disbanding the Real IRA was an act of good
faith, but I am trying to work Trimble's politics around
Gerry's. +er
The President:
I agree. From Trimble's point of view, he is
not asking for much. He is asking for something symbolic in
return for something tangible.
From Adams point of view, it is
not such a good deal since he gets a year and a half in return
for something he has a legal right to right now. Either you
have to get Trimble to change by getting a different good deal,
or get Adams to change. Jim Steinberg says we tried that latter
course, and he didn't seem very excited about it.
It might be
worth going back to Adams and Bertie to see if they can't figure
out how to identify who has done this. ~
Just because they disbanded, I don't think it is enough for
those 29 people, that beautiful teenaged girl who was blinded,
COUFIDEN'PIAL
CONFIDEN'l'IAL
and the other people. They need to arrest somebody anyway.

Unless whoever did this left the country, but Bertie didn't
think that was the case. Let us raise this with Sinn Fein, and
I will have Jim Steinberg nose around with three to four of the
most influential here today. -+eT
The President: Let me say a word about Russia.

is they have a government,
The
ood news
I am glad
that you are hosting this G-7 meeting and Russia will be able to
be part of it.
It think it would be a good idea to talk to them
practically about the lessons learned from other countries with
financial problems.
I am
to call Yeltsin now that he has
Primakov in place.
The fundamental problem
was they
proper y Wl
putting in place the
building
that created a vacuum. All the oligarchs
and mafia are shipping money out of the country. They want to
come back with a solution that they can put old Humpty Dumpty
back together again and they can't do that. ~
On the other hand, it is equally true that there are
international dimensions here. We have to rethink the IMF deal.
It seems to me that we need to develop some sort of pro-growth
strategy for the rest of the world. You have 40 percent of the
world in recession now.
In the end, you and I can't keep our
growth going.
I just want you to do anything you can to walk
the Russians through this and maybe cut them a little slack on
some of these macro issues, but hey, you have to build a
skeleton before you can have the body of an economic power. You
might want to call Yeltsin after this meeting. ~
Yeah.
The President: But, I think we just have to get their attention

on what they have to do, before it ever gets better there. We
need to look at it in the context of a larger settlement. We
have even considered paying for their space program for a year
so their scientists don't go build rockets for someone else.
The scientists on the board of the space program have not been
paid for six months.
It is unbelievable.
I know you have more
than you can say grace over, but to whatever extent you can tone
CONFIDENTIAL
CONFIDENTIAL
up that G-7 meeting and to call Yeltsin or Primakov when it is

over. %
The President:
I am going to give a speech in New York on
Monday on the general outline of what we see. Deputy Finance
Ministers in the G-21 have been working for over a year. We
have the basis for some work. Maybe I can talk to you when you
get here on the 21 st My instinct is that the G~7 should call
for them to at least present recommendations to us and to get
heads of state together and show some leg here. Bob Rubin
continually cautions me that we don't want to unrealistically
raise expectations if we don't know where we are going.
The fundamental difficulty is that you can't get out of the fact
that these countries have to do certain things. On the one
hand, there is incredible fluidity in capital movements, while
on the other hand there is a pro-growth strategy.
If they are
not willing to have the infrastructure, all this pro-growth
strategy won't matter.
If we get them juiced up again, the
money will flow out and be in somebody's Swiss bank account.
It's a tough knot to untie.
The IMF tried to modify their
approach in Indonesia, but it doesn't necessarily work in the
context of massive, breathtakingly rapid capital flow.
~
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
I've reviewed what the G-21 people are working
on. A lot of it is technical and arcane, but in aggregate it's
pretty good stuff.
It can make a big difference.
It will
remain arcane and complex and dense to the world as long as it
is operating at the level of deputy finance ministers. My
instinct is maybe we ought to talk next week before you corne to
New York and we do this conference, because maybe while we are
CONE'IDEN'HAL
CONfIDEN'f'IAL
there we can make decisions and some scenario to elevate the

visibility of this and to get world leaders involved. kef
IIE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d~1
...+-e-r
The President:
It might help. Cardoso is cratering and is
facing reelection in October.
I am just sick about that.
I
think he will get reelected, but it will be tough.
Let me do
the Irish thing and you can chew on all of this.
I think you
should call Yeltsin after the meeting. Let's try to talk again
on this. ~
The President:
time.
(U)
Thanks again.

The President:
Okay, Bill.
Good.
Goodbye.
(U)
Hillary and I had a wonderful
All the best.
(U)
(U)
Bye, bye.
(U)
End of Conversation
cmlFIDEN'l'IAL
.. ,r
COHF'IDEN'l'IAL
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON

Telcon with ~ritish Prime Minister Blair
SUBJECT:
(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Mariana Papadimitriou, Doug
Bayley, Matt Sibley, Joe Schrader and
Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
October 6, 1998, 9:44 - 10:05 a.m. EST

Oval Office

The President:
(U)
Hey Tony how are you?

The President:
Hello Bill.
I'm fine.
(U)
I'm in China.
Are you having a good time?
(U)
Is it hot there?
(U)

It was until we got here, but we brought
some British weather with us.
(U)
The President:
I just wanted to check in with you on Kosovo.
Yeltsin called me yesterday, as he called you, to say Milosevic
got the OSeE to come in and now everything is going to be all
right.
I think it would be a real mistake for us to take the
pressure off now. Kofi's report is going to be filed today and
it is a graphic account of Milosevic's continued defiance of the
UN and the International Community. Cr
I believe we have to maintain momentum and keep building a
consensus for the NATO decision to authorize force.
Dick
Holbrooke is there and is still meeting either in Belgrade or
Pristina.
Fighting has been in a lull for the past few days,
COHFIDENTIAL
Classified by:
Glyn T. Davies
Reason:
1.5(b,d)
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t::INTON
LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY
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COWFIDEHTL"xL
but Milosevic hasn't withdrawn or agreed to measures that would

make the end of hostilities verifiable or durable.
(C)
I would like to find some way to get the Russians on
We can't force Yeltsin
into a veto.
I KO. 13526, section 1.4( d)
We have got to tell Yeltsin, look, if you are

right and we are wrong then Milosevic will be in full
compliance.
If he lied to you one more time, then we are going
to do it. This is an issue that to me seems to be a real
mistake to let pressure up now.
U?(
- Let me mention one other thing.
I KO. 13526, section 1.4( d)
That may be necessary but

it is a terrible time for me to deal with it with this Congress
of mine. They are always willing to give more money to the
military and then do not want to do anything with it. There is
a really strong block in the Republican party that wants to do
that and I have worked to get them to continue to support SFOR
in Bosnia. And we really do have a readiness problem. ~
Keep in mind this is the same group that took eight months to
approve IMF funding.
If we have to do this publicly, it will be
a real problem for me.
I don't want to do anything to undermine
my ability or encourage them to try some eleventh hour measure
to stop these air strikes. They will be gone in a week.
~
I totally understand that Bill.
first point I am in complete agreement.
IKO. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I
CONFIDEN'l'IM
On the
COHFIDEN'FIAL
IE-O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President: I completely agree with that. I am just saying

injecting that now into the public debate would be a problem .
.Y:!
The President: It also might create problems with some other

NATO allies and get them to vote against it and we don't want to
complicate our business with .NATO. ~
By the way, Gordon Brown did a hell of a job here yesterday.
met with the Finance Ministers and Central Bankers about
international finance issues. I went over and met with him.
was terrific, you would have been really proud of him. ~
The President:
Bloody bright, isn't he?
Yes, he is great.
He
He
(-C)
Prime Minister Blair: I will tell him today when I go to talk

to him. How are we going to go on this now Bill. ;e(
The President: I hope we can get support for the G7
G7 met after we talked last time to endorse the idea
the crisis from spreading to Latin America. We will
funding by the end of next week and can proceed with
emergency plan. ..J,.e'(
plan. The
of keeping
have IMF
the
Gordon said what I have been saying all along. We have got to
modify the Bretton Woods convention and implement some sort of
bank regulatory system that has the effect of doing what bank
regulation does in each of our countries and the stock market
regulatory systems do, so that we can control the boom and bust
cmIFIDEN'FIAL
CONFrDEN'I'IAL
cycles on an international scale. Bretton Woods dealt with how

to have sufficient money to deal with trade and services but
didn't anticipate independent financial forces, which leveraged
financial instruments, and that trading in money itself would
have an effect on the global economy. ~
Bretton Woods assumed 50 years ago that no matter what, the
issue would be to find enough money to facilitate trade and
investment -- not that money flows themselves would become a
greater force of nature in the global economy. We have got to
find a way to set up systems to replicate national systems that
prevent depressions by limiting boom and bust cycles. There are
two ways to do it.
You can do it outright or have some sort of
oversight. mechanism that requires countries to make those
. changes. .ke"1
r think that is where we are going, but we still have to decide.

r tried last night, but had a little wrinkle. I tried to get
this group of 22 -- I counted 25 around the table -- to
accelerate the reporting process. The working group of the
deputy finance ministers reports in December/January after which
we would have a meeting of world leaders. Aef
I think we can do one of two things.
If you and Prodi and I
want to have a meeting earlier than that they can accelerate the
reporting process, which we can meet and validate. Or the
alternative, based on this meeting, we could have a larger
meeting, or a G7 meeting, and endorse this central idea, that is
precisely I
I
1-)
There is another wrinkle. /
Europe is
The big three
doing quite well and the forecast is for growth.

countries in Europe are going to do well also. ~
I didn't want to confuse people and scare them about a worldwide

recession, but I wanted to say that Europe has a bigger stake in
Latin America than the United States does right now. We have
seen bigger credit strictures and a tightening of credit here
because of so many bad loans in the global economy.
Regulators
are cutting off good credit risks because of problems our banks
are having elsewhere.
~
COHFIDEN'l'IAD
CmJFIDEN'fIA'b
I can understand it, but I did not place a lot of stock

But they did not disagree with the central idea that
was succinctly put in Gordon's comments, which is what we have
all been trying to say.
I think there is still a chance we can
do something more quickly if we want.
The big front line test
now is what happens to Brazil. Cardoso won the election but he
has a lot of people in the run-off elections, three weeks from
Sunday, or whenever.
They have less than $40 billion in cash
reserves now, and I don't think he can stall for three weeks
without saying what his reform proposal is.
If. Brazil goes
south we are all going to suck eggs big time.
~
-r
want to go give my speech today -- it is consistent with what

you and Gordon said -- and then see what the status of the group
is.
Then, we'll see if we should have the G7 or some other
group meeting where everybody gets together and endorses the
idea.
The developing countries were there and not one spoke
against it.
The Thais were there and they're doing quite well.
They seem to be in harness on interim measures and suffering
contractions because of it. ~
They need a dramatic increase in World Bank investment to build

a social safety net, but the problem is financial institutions
are running short of money, not just the IMF.
The World Bank is
worried about having so many bad investments out and that its
credit rating will go down. The longer we wait to get
consensus, the worse it will be. We can have consensus in the
long term.
I don't know enough yet, but my instinct is to move
sooner rather than later. But I need to let today pass to see
where we are and get back to you. You should ask the Chinese
where they stand.
They have been champs in not devaluing their
currency. They have taken some hits for it, but the benefits
outweigh the burden. Anyway, I wanted to say that's where we
are.
In 48 hours we will be in a place to decide whether to get
the leaders together sooner rather than later.
I am for it but
my Treasury department is against it. lef
CONFIDEN'fIAL
6
The President:
Do you think we will get any grief for not
having the Russians there? ~
The President:
But they would probably go along?
rfl
Vl
The President:
I agree. That is why I want to go in there
today and be very aggressive.
If Europe and Japan will support
this and we have a united G7 front, we will be in pretty good
'hape.
I KO. 13526, ,octioo 1.4(d)
I
The President:
They might like it if we could put outside
pressure on them without appearing to.
That would be the best
of all possible worlds.
I need to go over now and give a talk.
I will be back to you within 48 hours to let you know where we
go from here.
How long are you going to be in China? kef
CONFIDEN'fIAL
CONtIDEN'PIAL

J..ef
A few days here and then in Hong Kong.
The President:
Back on Kosovo, we will be in touch with the
French.
If the Contact Group meets Thursday we have to go
forward with the ACTORD no matter what the Russians say. We
will tell them we won't have to do this if your deal works.
This guy, all he understands is pressure and he lied before, and
pressure will increase the chances that the deal will work. ~
couple of days.
(U)
The President:
I agree Bill, I'll talk to you in a
Okay, goodbye.
(U)
-- End of Conversation
CONFI DEN'!' lAL
- -
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\L:.~:~N LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY;

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CON'f'rO~N'nAL
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Tom Crowell, Liz Rogers,
Robin Rickard, George Chastain, Jim Smith,
Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
October 14, 1998, 2:38 - 2:58 p.m. EDT

Oval Office
Hey, Tony, how are you?
(UD)
Fine, fine, how are you?
The President:
It's nice to hear your voice.
Good.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: It's good to hear you, too.

Arafat on his way to you. ~
The President:
..'"
I saw Mr.
How did you find him?

deal.
(C)
(U)
He still thinks it is possible to do a
;::
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~T~h~e~=p=r=e=s=i=d~e=n=t~:__~I~t~h~ink
'.6'.~
~
o
~
it is.
He wants it, I think.
In a way,
I What we have to do is keep them from
falling into these old habits. I keep telling them if we don't

make this deal now, we've got May 1999 staring us straight in
the face and I think it will be a disaster. It will be
impossible to avoid a bad outcome unless we get this interim
agreement now and get into final status talks. ~
IE.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d) I
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Reason: 1.5(b,d)
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COliFI DEN'F IAL
IE.O. 13526, section I.4(b)(d)1
The President:
first.
Maybe.
I think he wants to see how it plays,
lS lS aggrava e
y the fact that their economic
situation is worse than when they signed on to peace. The
Israelis close borders at the drop of a hat and they never
concluded all these economic things, the roads and airport and
industrial park, they have been on the verge of doing for months
and months.
~
Somehow we have to convince them they have to resolve all that

crap.
There is a train wreck facing them in May 1999 unless we
somehow can give them some breathing room, some progress and
confidence in one another's work.
If I were in their position,
the one interest they have in cornmon is finding some way to live
together before they have this horrible train wreck in 1999.
Ul)
The President:
I think it might be important, depending on what
each side asks for.
During the next four days I might need to
call you again a time or two. Where will you be? ~
I will be here and anything I can do to
be helpful I will, just give me a call anytime.
I will speak to
the Europeans or anything. ~
The President:
Adams and Trimble are both over here, you know.
(e)
Yes.
(U)
The President: My deputy labor secretary participated in the

opening of the road show last week and I think it's going pretty
COHFIDEH'FIAL
CONFIDElfl'L"tL
well.
I understand de Chastelain's group got the lead on the
decommissioning issue, but I heard you think it will have to
wait until next spring.
If there's anything I can do to help .
.)-e"r

Bill, I am going to speak to McGuinness
and Trimble in the next few days.
It's tricky stuff. Sinn Fein
is saying we will decommission, but not just yet.
IE.O.
13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I
At the moment, we're working on it.

If it
comes to It, an
think you need to speak to people, I will
just give you a call.
J.G-r
The President:
I will do anything you want.
I don't know how
you are going to solve it, they both seem so dug in.
If you can
figure out anything I can do, I will. ~
I just cannot thank you enough for the strength you showed on
Kosovo.
It was fascinating to watch that NAC meeting unfold,
compared to where we were three months ago.
They all acted as
if they were disappointed Milosevic caved.
I told my folks here
that it bore some of the similarities to Bosnia, where we worked
for two years to get everybody off the dime. But it happened a
lot quicker, in no small measure because we were in lockstep
from the get-go. )1
Parenthetically, we have to do the same on this global financial
thing; maybe we can talk about it in the next few days. ~
It was amazing to see how that happened. Here is where our next
problem in Kosovo is.
I think right now we are in a position
where we passed the ACTORD -- this action order -- and are
sus endin it as we see if he complies.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
And as soon as
happens, he
start cheating, but they'll argue it's not enough.
~
We really need to carefully coordinate our positions to keep
maximum pressure on him so we don't have to take military
action. We don't want to look weak three months from now.
It
CONFIDENTIAL
COHFIDEHTL''xL
looks so good right now, just the right thing being done in the
right way. We really, really need to coordinate our positions;
I'm convinced we can avoid military action if it is always
hanging there.
But it would take 3-4 months to try to get
everybody where they were. And all the forces of the last 3
months will reassert themselves. Milosevic will cheat a little
here and there and undermine the integrity of this thing.
That
is my only sort of yellow caution light, but otherwise it's
terrific.
It's good to have some good news. -+et
The President: We have to figure out a posture. Some guys will

say you can't keep granting 96-hour extensions, and then they
will say we ought to say, okay, let's go to one-week extensions,
two-week extensions. The point is, we don't want to let them
put us in a position where we have to do this allover again.
The minute we do that, he will start cheating.
(BT
The President:
I like that. ~

Bill, one thing I want to raise on the
global economic stuff.
I've got a little bit to reportj-.__I _ _...,
think Gordon has done brilliant work on the Europeans.
GOHFIDEN'fI}'rL
IE.O.
13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I
COHFIDEN'l'IAL
The President:
the seed issue I a ree. On an of these
finance problems,
E.O.13526, section 1.4 d
they could
have done this for a pittance of what they have to. We have two
different issues here. The longer we wait, given the amount of
leveraged money that is out there,.the greater chance of a more
serious collapse that will take more money to fix.
I do believe
we need to have a hardcore bright line to help Brazil and keep
Latin America from getting into this. The risks of our not
being successful are greater than when we helped Mexico. But
the risk will be minimized if simultaneously we have a
comprehensive short-term strategy, including these countries but
not limited to these countries.
~
At least have a framework agreement that in the long run wiil
sort of stabilize confidence and make people think this can be
made to work.
I believe the global version of what we're trying
to do in our respective countries is riding on this.
If this
comes apart at the seams, we'll have hell putting this back
together and putting in a coherent social component.
That is
what I believe. I think it is very, very serious. Much more
than what I say in my public remarks, because I have to keep
people jollied up here. ~
We just literally this minute got Gordon's proposals in.
Everybody here will be ready to see him by tomorrow and I will
CONFIDEN'FIAL
CGNFIDEN'PIAL
We just literally this minute got Gordon's proposals in.

Everybody here will be ready to see him by tomorrow and I will
read this personally.
I would like to follow up on the
suggestion you made to me before. Let's assume pretty good
accord among G-7 treasury and central bank people.
There should
be some meeting of the G-7, and sooner rather than later to
realize some momentum here; even the Wall street crowd, who hategovernment interference. Every time .1 give a talk, the market
goes up a bit, and they're disappointed we're not doing more.
There is an openness to action here in the market community that
I think is important.
I don't want to meet if we don't have
an thin to say, but I think you ought to think about it. ~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President: Absolutely. Let me read this.

I may call you
in a day or so. There's some urgency in timing.
If you look at
the amount of unregulated, leveraged cash out there and the fact
that people on their own are trying to reduce their exposure
within emerging markets and in the EU and U.S. already, we
already have a liquidity crisis that will affect our economies
in less than a year. But simultaneously the amount of risk is
so great that the two trends could run head on into each other
and cause an even bigger problem.
I hope Gordon will come
tomorrow, but if there is some problem at Treasury, let me look
into that.
I don't know about that. Let me have a little time
to look over this stuff, but I can't imagine not having him
here. )1
I'm sure they will be happy to see him.
The President:
If you have gotten Tietmeyer and the French
central bank moved off where they were at the meeting of 25
countries (G-22) over here where Gordon spoke so well -- it
sounded like we'd read the same book just before speaking, we
don't want to give them a chance to change again. ~
COUFIDEN'FIAL
GGHFI DEN'fIkL

The President: Yes. Let me read this stuff and get back to
you, and over the next few days we may have to talk again on the
Middle East.
~
it with him.
je1
I'll get Gordon and get him to go through
The President: Tell.you what. Let me call Rubin and let

everybody read it.
They need time to talk about it and they
need digestion time.
I've been talking to them and pushing them
. everyday; . I feel the same sense of urgency you do, and I will
be back in touch.
(..e')
In the meantime, just get someone to let
Gordon or us know about -~
The President:
-- the timing.

The President:
Yes, I will.
Okay, that is great.
Goodbye.
(U)
CONFIDEnTIAL .
Goodbye.
(U)
CONFI DEN'l' IAL
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON
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Notetakers: Bonnie Glick, Sean Tarver,

Robert Ford, Tom Crowell, Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
October 2, 1998, 4:10 -4:21 p.m. EDT

Air Force One
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The President:
Hello?

The President:
Hi, Bill.
(U)
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Tony, how are you doing?
(U)
I am doing great.
(U)
Things are going well here.

You seem to be routing your enemies and
we're all happy about that. Where are you? Are you in a car or
something? kel
The President:
I'm doing fine.
I am in a plane.
I wanted to
say one thing to you.
I really believe we've got to do
something about this financial situation. I liked what you
outlined -- your speech was good. G-7 finance ministers are
meeting here this weekend.
I think we need to come up with some
sort of emergency coordinated set of bilateral credit lines.
The Germans are against it, but the French are moving toward it.
Some central banks are reluctant. We'll need to then get the
cooperation from private lenders to stem the tide.
I'm very
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I've just had our party "'zq 00'"

I'm doing fine.
convention this week so I just got that out of the way.
The President:
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CONFIDENTIAL
worried about it affecting Latin America, particularly Brazil.

European bankers have so much exposure on these hedge loans that
we have a real risk of a world-wide recession here.
I think
that it is very important we get these guys to reach some kind
of agreemen i::
('!
I am in total agreement. We have got to
act.
I don't think we have seen the worst of this thing by any
means.
J9f
The President: No, but if we move in quick we could keep it
from taking down Brazil.
I think it would be really important
if you could tell your folks that.
I am going to see them on
_ Monda-y and -do my best to bring them around, as well.
(C)
Prime Minister Blair: Certainly, I will speak to our folks and
I think they will, in principle, be in favor of concerted
action.
I have just read the outline of the comments ou made
earlier today,
The President:
Exactly.
iT

The President:
I couldn't agree with you more.
I have not
mentioned the prospect of using our exchange rate stabilization
fund.
I wanted to get IMF funding through Congress, and the
Germans are not yet for it.
I keep thinking that if we work at
this, we can get a lot done, but I have to figure out a way to
get them into it. We got to do it, and the central bank is
notoriously independent.

issues really.
I agree with you.
I think there are two
CONFIDEN1'L\L
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Cot1FIlJEN'fIAL

The President:
I agree with everything you said.
If you could
urge your people to be forward leaning. Maybe we could talk on
Monday before I talk to the IMF. The other thing I wanted to
mention was Kosovo. We have begun to prepare Congress and the
people for the possibility of air strikes. We wanted to ask
NATO to authorize operations next Wednesday.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
I agree with that.

The President:
I told Chirac I would talk to him on Tuesday
after the UN report is released. Our guys can lead this
economic thing, we can say we want a short-term solution and a
long-term structural solution that will help.
~
Prime Minister Blair: What do you think about a summit of some
sort at some stage?
(e)
The President:
I am in favor of it.
If we can get anything
like remote consensus, I think we should do it by the end of the
(C)
year and before the final report toward the end of October.
The President:
Like the G-8 summit or something.
Yep, maybe even the G-22.
Well, I'm all for it.
;ef
If we've
Let's see how far we get on Monday.
The President:
(.Q1
got something to say. How are you doing on Ireland?
It will be helpful i f you can intervene
I'm seeing de Chastelain, who is
some time in the near future.
CONFIJ3EM'l'IAL
CONfIDENTIAL
the bloke in charge of decommissioning on Monday.

I gather you made good progress as well on the Middle
Eas t .
).,Q1
The President:
Yes, I think so.
I would say we have a better
than 50-50 chance to get a deal, to get them into final status
talks. Well, take care.
~
Prim~
MiniSter Blair:
Take care.
(U)
The President:
That would be good.
We will speak again soon.
Goodbye.
(U)
End of Conversation
CONFI DEloiT 1AL
All the best, Bill.
Goodbye man.
(U)
CONFIDEN'fIAL
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

E.O.13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Tom Crowell, Frank Jarosinski,
Elizabeth Rogers and Robin Rickard
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
October 25, 1998,2:14 -2:42 p.m. EST

San Francisco, California

The President:
Hi Bill.
Thank you.
Congratulations.
It was terrible.
(U)
+e!
IE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I
The President:
I was going home every morning at two or three.
The last go around dragged on for 36 hours, like the Irish
thing. But to be fair, the difference was you were integrating
both into one political system. Here we were dealing with two
diverging political systems.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
CONFIDEH'fL"tL
Classified by:
Glyn T. Davies
Reason:
1.5(b,d)
De cl ass i f y On:': 1 0/2 ~,O 8ioo?"""'~~~_O"-'-~--~~"'~,
~:;~~-~:RARY PHOTOCOPY 'J

~?~~'.:~:.'<:-r~;_:;~::-'::";'---';~~;~;'o-o;'.:_.,,,-...,/:-'-; ,
CONFIDEN'fIlltL
,.
When you were doing the Irish thing, you were actually in it
with them -- you had some leverage. All I can do is give them
money and my time. Here I just had to talk them through it and
wait it out.
It took 85 hours.
In the end, everybody pats me
on the back; but they have to take all the flak; Arafat took
some too. -t+If it works, I think we have a chance to break the whole thing
open.
If this is faithfully implemented, this mra~k~e~s~t~h~e~______,
ultimate resolution of bilateral issues easier.
e
Israe-lis know in the end they have to have an agreement.
good, but we still have along way to go. ~
I know exactly how you feel.
I feel
The President:
It is a lot like the Irish thing, there are a
lot of similarities. But you are in it with them. You have
more moral authority.
You have to make a decision to release
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
I I t is an
prisoners.
I don't. I
interesting thing.
(C)
I was absolutely fascinated watching this
on the news.
It was a real roller coaster, wasn't it? ~
The President:
It was amazing. We had the agreement, then it
got undone. We had a deal. You see there were two prisoners.
Most can't understand, but ou know what symbolic significance
prisoners have in Ireland.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
COHFIDEN'fIAL
I can imagine.
CONFIDENTIAL
The President:
The beautiful thing about it was Hussein, who
looks l.ike he is at death's door. ;e1
He is an amazing man.
The President: Hussein kept telling them to think about their

children.
It was a thing of beauty.
I would fly him down and
he would wait in his house for 30 to 40 minutes for them to come
down. Then he would lecture them in a fatherly way.
It was
bizarre. +er
I thought this would be an extraordinary
To-have done it is a tremendous achievement. Even
- making all allowances, it wouldn't have happened unless you had
been there and done it yourself. ~
thin~.
The President: There was no way.

For you it is the same. But
there is a limit to how many times you can do this.
I had to
just get there and listen to them for hours and hours. ~
Prime Minister Blair: We end up being part negotiator, part
therapist, and part leader.
~
I
The President:
Someday we should write a book together about
these two things, about our role as shrinks. ~
I could tell when I saw the signing
ceremony.
I could just tell what must have been going on -- the
nightmares to not let it disintegrate. You see they needed a
figure there.
This is what you will have done. You will have
brought them to see in the end that both of them had to do the
deal. -t-)The President:
I don't have any question that I did the right
thing, but it was tough for them.
I tell
is one
thing I would like you tOrrd=o~.~~I~w~i~s~h~~o~u~~~~~~~o~f~f~a~____,
letter to both of them.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
~~==~====~------------~
I am supposed to phone him, but I will
write him a letter.
I will definitely do that. Aef
The President: Call him, but if you write a letter, it can be
released.
I know we need to talk about finances and Kosovo a
bit, but, the other thin;
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
CQNn DENT IAL
CONFIDEN'fIAL
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
Prime Mi ni s t e r BI air: / r:::-::o--:-:-::-:--:----:--:-:-:::-:-~

IE.O.13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I
~~~~__~~__~--:---:-__~~~~~~~________~__~~~I
Okay,
Bill, I will certainly do that. And once again, well done. It
was a real personal triumph. ~
. The Presiderit:
Thank you.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: We had Arafat out to the EU get together

-- this informal European summit we just had. He told us a bit
about it. I will try to gear up the other Europeans to do the
same.
The President: Okay, let's talk about Kosovo briefly and then
go back to finances. What is your sense of where we are on
Kosovo? )Z1
The President: I got it. Last night Wes Clark literally stayed
up all night working on him. Milosevic agreed to a specific set
of things that most reasonable people would conclude if he did
between now and the day of the ACTORD, the 27 th , he would be in
compliance. The one thing that is most important is that
nothing we and the French say between now and then should look
like anything other than that we are prepared to put the planes
in the air. We are on the same wavelength. {et
I think that he will do enough to comply for us all to agree
that he's done what he has to do. In the last several days, he
has done a lot of things to comply but also some backsliding.
We just have to hang in there. -+etcmlFIDKNTIAL
CONFIDEH'FL7I,L

that.
I agree absolutel.
We are at one with
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President: That is good enough right now. I don't want to

give him mixed messages. Based on his meeting last night with
Wes, he will stick on compliance enough that we will not have to
use violence, but only if he thinks we are prepared to do it.
t,.ef -
We are absolutely agreed on that.
+e1
The President: On the financial issues, I have a couple of

things. I got your letters last week and Bob talked to Gordon
Brown. There is a lot of good stuff in there. I would like to
propose that we try to put this in context of the heads of state
of the G-7 statement. ~
I would like to give you my view of this and let you respond.
First of all, I think we should be looking for -- without
raining on what Gordon has done so far -- I think we should be
looking for a G-7 statement from the leaders themselves
addressing long term reforms and the short term crisis as well
as the banking legislation in Japan and what we did with the IMF
here. ~
What I would hope we could do, because I think Rubin has a good
sense of how the markets will react, is ideally to get a
statement out next week, with or without a conference call with
our G-7 colleagues. It's your call as G-7 leader what you would
like. Then we would have a statement and it would have the
existing consensus on the promise for reform, on a detailed
agenda and procedure for achieving consensus. JR1
It would be good if we can get others to agree on this and on a
financial architecture. And I would also like to see, and Bob
thinks this is really important, an agreement on the proposal
for precautionary financing facility. In addition, we could
then or later also endorse the package for Brazil that the
finance ministers are working on. We know the shape it will be
in and who will pony up the money. ;e1
CONFIDENTIAL
CONFIDEN'l'VlrL
It is okay for the finance ministers to announce it, but we need

to ratify it in the context of our statement next week -- or
when w~ get it done.
If Gordon and Bob Rubin could work to
build consensus around these elements, we could then have two
complementary statements.
First, a leaders' statement
describing key elements with consensus on long term reform,
endorsing the precautionary financing facility and also
endorsing the Brazilian thing.
Then the finance ministers and
central bank governors could lay it all out in greater detail.
I think if you have the finance ministers do something without
the leaders at this time, it doesn't break through with the
necessary force.
Je1
I am in total agreement with that.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
One thing I can't figure out how to do, is to
find a device that all of us can live with directly or
indirectly to put limits on the degree of speculation while
leaving markets open to trade, investment, and even appropriate
hedging against currency reevaluation up or down. We can't have
over a trillion dollars a day changing hands without some
regulatory limits. We car.'t afford to have hundreds of millions
of dollars moving on a 90 percent leverage where they only have
to put up 10 percent. ~
We need prudent rules.
The President:
You just can't have 90 percent leverage -- the
compounding is devastating. You also have to have some way to
buy the private sector into this to stop hemorrhaging outflows
from these countries.
Some don't feel this way, but these
capital credit controls for the short term can work -- just like
if the market drops more than 10 percent in a day, we can
suspend trading. But they don't work over the long or medium
COl?lFIDEH'fIAL
COHFI DEN'l? IAL
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

term. Malaysia
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I agree. These ~re other things we need
to look at.
If we do a leaders' statement and finance
ministers' statement, it obviates the need for a summit now.
.JK}
The President:
One thing
particularly if there are
that our absolute outside
meeting, leaving open the
or Ja-nuary _or if we think
we should leave in reserve,

adverse reactions in the market, is
deadline should be the next G-7
possibility of a meeting in December
we have something else to say. j'(
But let me say, this is more about your European political

situation than mine.
Two things: number one, it is important
to have the leaders' statement and let the finance ministers
fill in the blanks because you have a new leader in Germany

The President:
Absolutely.
And we have a new leader in Italy
Absolutely right.
The President:
It will empower them and makes them members of
the club. I think it is very good politics. ~
It is why I am anxious to do it.
s otted it absolutel .
You
The President:
Alright.
Have you talked to Prodi?
CONFIDEN'f'IAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
COtilfIElEHlIAL
IE.O.13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
Yes, he is.
You probably don't
know D'Alema, do you?

The President:
No.
:J
L-____________________- - - - The President:

He did a good job.
got a chance to call him. ~
I'm just sick.
I haven't
He would like that.
The President:
There are center left governments in every
country in Europe now.
~
It is interesting with its possibilities,
but it also poses problems.
(e)
The President: Now that we have the responsibilities we have to
bear the burdens of the consequences. ~
The summit was quite interesting -- the

(Q')
The President:
I'll have Rubin follow up with Gordon Brown. We
may want to do a conference call next week. We can put out our
general statement on architecture of the precautionary financing
facility and ratify it when it is done.
~
The President:
us greater credibility.
)1
CONFIDEN'FIAL
Absolutely.
i t will give
_ COMf'IDEliffTAL
,'
The President;
We also need to show we are serious on Brazil.
!z')
Prime Minister Blair: Okay Bill.

(U)
again congratulations.
The President:
Okay, goodbye.
All the very best'and once
(U)
CONFIDEH'l'IAL
COHFIDEN'PIAL
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASH I NGTO N

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Tom Crowell, Frank Jarosinski,
George Chastain, Jenny McGee and Lawrence
Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
November 3, 1998, 3:29 - 3:37 p.m. EST

Oval Office
Hi, Bill, how are you?
(U)
The President:
Fine, how are you doing? It's election day, so
I am just sitting around. Essentially, the elections are going
well.
These are good times, but the Republicans are in the
majority and have more money than we do. Not since 1922 has the
president's party gained seats, but we are doing well and the
exit polls look good.
They have outspent us, but we essentially
have a good message going.
(U)
I understand that you have been briefed on Bill Cohen's message
on Iraq.
I really appreciate all that you have said publicly,
but I still think that we have to take decisive action this time
to respond to Saddam's challenge. It is clear to me that Saddam
really wants to force the Council to lift sanctions without
giving up his weapons of mass destruction and missile program.
The Vice President talked to Crown Prince Abdallah today in
Saud'i Arabia, and he promised the support that we need. Bill is
discussing the details with him tonight in Riyadh.
~
We are working on a resolution for the Council, and I hope that
it can be finished in a couple of days. But it seems to me that
we need to be in a position to act soon, rather than drag it
out. We need to be in touch with Chirac.
I still have
questions about what they would say about the use of force.
The
COHFI DENT IA1
Classified by:
Glyn T. Davies
Reason:
1/5(b,d)
... '
Declassify On: _. 1l/0Y~-GB~,J'7C:'';;':''-~-'O-~~"-~'-~--'-~""'\.
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French have been great in their public comments -- they have

been tough on Iraq -- but anything that you can do to keep
Chirac .on board.
I will call him tomorrow. -tetPrime Minister Blair:
The President:
Maybe I should call him.
I think you should.

I actually made my comments in a press
conference with Schroeder yesterday.
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
next day to see where we stand.
I will talk to Chirac in the

~
The President: As far as the Russians are concerned, they seem

pretty angry, too. jQ(
JE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) J
The President:
I agree with you. Kofi seems to be keeping his
distance since Saddam shafted him. What do you think about
sooner rather than later?
~
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)J
COIU'I15EWf IAL
'CONTI DEN'!' TAt
IE-O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I
The President:
I agree with that.
~
~
How soon were you thinking of, Bill?
The President:
I don't know. I was thinking of over the next
several days.
It will take time to set things up and to develop
a case against him.
I've got to know who is dancing with us and
who is not.
I just wanted to check your temperature on it and
ask you to call Chirac. On the details, we need to be in very
close touch and work together. ~
IE-O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I
The President:
Keep your fingers crossed for us tonight.

Bill.
(U)
The President:
Thanks.
All right.
Goodbye.
All the very best to you,
(U)
CONFIDENTIAL
(U)
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)
ISCAP APPEAL NO. 20l3-090, document no. 40

PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Tony Blair of the United Kingdom
NOTE -TAKERS:
Bonnie Glick, Sean Tarver, Joel Schrader, David

Higgins, Jim Smith and Roger Merletti
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
December 11, 1998 -- 1:00 p.m. - 1:15 p.m. EDT

Oval Office
The President:
Hello.

The President:
(U)
Hi, Bill.
Hey, Tony.
Fine.
(U)
How are you?
(U)
I am at the EU summit in Vienna.
(U)
The President:
Is it cold in Vienna?
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: It is absolutely freezing.

cold, but a beautiful city.
(U)
Amazingly
The President:
I just wanted to check in with you on Iraq and
Ireland before I go to the Middle East this weekend. On
November 15, we said we would hold off on any strike while we
test Saddam's promise to cooperate with UNSCOM. So far, the
results have been mixed. There has been a lot of monitoring,
which is easy for the Iraqis to accept. But, UNSCOM was blocked
at Ba'ath party headquarters this week. ~
Yes.
_______________________
___
2
~he
President: And they've received only 1 of 10 documents they

asked for, and Iraq is making inspections harder than they have
to be.
I can't tell if they are trying to get some concession
on sanctions review, or if they think we can't do anything at
this time of year.
If Iraq blocks another inspection this
weekend and if Butler finds that they are not cooperating as
they are required to do under the October 30 Security Council
letter -- if he actually says that -- I am inclined to think
that we should take the action that we suspended in November.
But, if he isn't significantly undercutting UNSCOM's ability to
do its job and Butler says that, I think he will simply have
slipped the disarmament noose forever. Now, we have a very
narrow window to operate with because of Ramadan and my going to
Israel this weekend. We will need to talk, and I will have to
find you wherever you are.
If the inspections are not blocked,
then we have to figure out how to handle the comprehensive
review issue.
Do we delay it or go forward? If we delay it,
there will almost certainly be a crisis, and out of respect for
their faith, we can't hit them during Ramadan. ~
IE.D. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
We don't have much, I don't think.
No.
IE.D. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I
It's
The President: We think we can get them out in 24 hours.
a much quicker turn-around. This may be part of what he is
miscalculating. He may think he will have more notice than he
would.
yt'll
TQf
.sECRE'f
Prime Minister Blair: Right. What happens if we start to take

action and Shen Ramadan starts, as it were? Ramadan starts next
Friday?
(j'1)
The President:
If we start on Wednesday, we have enough time.
They assure me we do.
(jl) .
Ramadan?
ifj)
The President:
We can do it.
(l~s,
Then, we can go in and get out by
we have four days.
That's plenty of time.
~)

E.O.13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
So, Butler is going to try to get more access
tomorrow? ..k8'f
The President:
says. ~
He has two more days, and then say whatever he

say? -+&r
Right.
Do we know what he is going to
The President:
No, we don't. My gut is that he most likely is
going to say that he got some cooperation, but not full.
This
will make us think really hard on whether we can in good
conscience vote for this comprehensive review, and if we don't,
he will provoke a crisis over that.
It seems to me that it is
pretty substantial that he didn't let them go into Ba'ath party
headq~arters.
Anyway, you will have to talk to your folks, and
we may have to talk again in a few days when I am in the
Mideast. -+&JPrime Minister Blair:
Okay.
The President: Anyway, the other thing I wanted to tell you was
that I talked to Trimble and Adams on Tuesday.
I missed Hume
because he had to leave for Oslo.
I made it clear privately and
publicly in a speech that decommissioning is essential,
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
What do you think is happening?
J.Z!
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I did all I could.
can do, just let me know. ~
If there is anything else I

There may be a time to speak to Adams
again, but, for now, it is for us to sort out.
~
The President:
Okay, I agree with that.
I just wanted to
mention very briefly that I am going to make a real push to
resolve the Cyprus issue next year. But, before that, we have
to avert this missile problem next month.
I hope when you see
Clerides on Saturday that you persuade him to stop delivery to
Cyprus.
It would be terrible.
I hope you will do what you can.
You really tried to get the ED to soften its stance on Turkey.
I don't know if the coming of Schroeder helps at all. Maybe,
you can et a little better Ian ua e in our statement in
Vienna.
I think this missile deal
rea ly bothers me because of the Russian connection, and I see
so much in Russia going south on us.
Their space scientists
haven't received a check in eight months, and they could be
making' a fortune on missile launches from us.
~ 3ECRE'I'
/'
SECRE'f
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
If you could make headway,

tomorrow.
Oka, Bill.
I would appreciate it.

I will speak to Clerides
The President: After the first of the year, after I get all
this crap behind me, I would like to talk to you about this.
?-f
I'd like to talk to you about a bunch of
things because there is a lot going on here in Europe.
yei
The President:
How is Schroeder working out?
~----------------The President:
I had impressions watching his campaigning that
they adopted rhetoric similar to ours, but they didn't think it
through. You had a program to implement and so did I, and
that's a big difference. ~
prime Minister Blair:
Actually, I like him very much.

The president:
I do, too. The reason I mentioned this is
because I had a good talk with him on Turkey.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
Now,
ere are other prob
Turkey, such
as human rights. Anyway, you might nose around Vienna and see
if you can send him help. +eT
Sure, I
opportunity at dinner tonight.
The President:
There rna
be an
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
Tp('eECRE'P
TOSE,CRET
'7-
The President: As Christians, we are supposed to help whether

people appreciate it or not and it's the season for it. See you
soon.
(U)
The President:
Alright, Bill.
All the best.
Bye.
Bye.
See you soon.

(U)
(U)
~SECRE!
(U)
TH E WH ITE HOUSE
WAS HI NGTON

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers:
James Smith, Roger Merletti,
Frank Jarosinski and Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
January 21, 1999, 2:26-2:53 p.m. EST

Oval Office
Hi, Bill.
Kosovo.
Classified by:
Glyn T. Davies
Reason:
1.5 (d)
'-" >9-J~"-'''''''--"~-=~-~-'--''-''''~'--':''>~~' ,
Declassify on:! 1 /~'
l'
'f i .." ,- 'i~()NJJB~RYPHo;rocOPY' '1
I
.~.:~::::~::::":=~~=-_ ~;;;:";'',!'~-=:;' _.,'~
--.k :
~:~L-:~_-.. __..L~..-,..:~.-:-'
cmrn DEHT IP.L
be determined not to let him undermine the KVM and work over
Walker. I don't want to be slow or indecisive. I will try to
get Congress to go along with me and not stop it.
(R:')
Domestic politics aside, my problem about ground forces is that
if we send them in without some type of agreement beforehand -it doesn't have to be as detailed as Dayton --
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
I really think we have to do somet ing, but I know

if we do military action without a political plan we will have a
problem. ...(.GtPrime Minister Blair:
The President: I agree with that. On the other hand, this is

likely to be one of !:JieSe things where we can't see completely
to the end.
eave 0 eep
working on it. We are in a much different situation than we
were legally and politically in Bosnia because the world has
said these people deserve autonomy but not independence. I
don't want to get into a pickle, but now that 45 people have
been slaughtered and Milosevic is trying to throw the KVM out,
we don't have any choice but to do something.
~
CONPIDEN''fIAL
COHFI DElff' IAL
The President:
One thing is to go to them and say, "Look, if
you want us to do any more you have to help, too.
They
probably have as many violations of cease-fires as Milosevic,
though his are more egregious.
"For a long-term resolution you
have to come to the table too, you can't have it both ways, and
you never take any responsibility.
J,K1
U
/I

The President:
It's important we do that.
They may ignore it but we have to try.

we may get somewhere.
If we do that in a really concerted way,

I think it very important we do that,
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
That makes a lot more sense.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

Prime Minister
Blair~~s.
(U)
The President:
It is a very difficult problem and I don't
pretend to have all the answers. We have to be careful not to
be weak and move decisively with NATO now, knowing it won't
solve the problem without a political resolution.
to sell
COMn OEM! IAL
ln an lmposslble posltlon.
I may not be able
time with Congress, but I certainly can't do
CONFIDENTIAL
it unless there is an appropriate environment.

I think we
r - -.....
we have to keep working and go full speed ahead with NATO
E.O. 13526 section 1.4 d
Prime Mihister Blair:
The President:
I think that is exactly right.
I agree with that.
That is good.
L -_ _-------------~
The President:
I agree.
That is what we need to do.
The President:
I agree with that.
The President:
GONFIDEH'f'IM.
Okay, Bill, let's keep in touch on that.
Can I do anything?
Can I help at all?
(U)
C3HFI DEN':' L,\L
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President: I'm really worried. Gerry Adams was here not
long ago, and I had a firm talk with him. I am really getting
kind of frustrated by them not doing anything. yel
.
The President: You just let me know.

have not hit a lick of this.
ye)
I am concerned that they
The President:
),Q1
Yes, it does.
I don't know how .. just bizarre.
LP__r_i_ffi_e__M_i_n_l_.s_t__e_r__B_l_a_l_.r__: ____________________________________==:::>
r::IE-.O-.-c-1':-35::":2-::-6,-s-ec-ti=-o-n-1.-4(-b:-)(--'d)I
CONFIDENTIAL
, CONFIDEHTL'I:L
The President:
All right.
What else? ~

IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
Let me tell you what we're going on and what the
lay of the land is. We tried to negotiate to get a solution to
the EU restrictions in '92.
I would still like to do it. The
problem now for me is, I don't have any flexibility for
delaying.
Congress was going to impose them by statute, and
that-was trouble that I headed off. But the only way I could do
it was by sending them a letter that said I would do it, and
basically there is a little time left.
February 1 plus 10 days,
then there is probably another week after that before customs
could enforce it.
If there is any way you think your guys have
flexibility and work out a solution I would like to do it, but
one operation here lost nearly a billion dollars since this all
happened.
The law is pretty clear.
I don't want to do anything
to cause you problems.
In principle, I don't want Congress
legislating in the trade area. We had to send a letter that we
would do it, and now time has run out. So if there is anything
we can do, I will do it.
I don't want to cause you any trouble
but we're sort of stuck on it. Jer
Pr ime Mini ster Blair:
The President:
I know it does.
I've been fooling with it a
long time and also some people who are pushing it have enormous
influence in Congress and I know them well.
We sort of delayed
this for years and if there is any way we can resolve it, it
would be a good thing.
yef
Let me ask you another thing.
another year in office,
Menem was here and he said he has

He has a great economic policy. We're trying to stave off the
financial crisis from reaching Latin America, and Brazil is
shaky" He asked i f you might be able to do something on it.
The thing he mentioned the most was travel.
~
CONFIDENTIfJ,
I~.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I
(C)
.C ON F I DEIfy I f.L
The President: It's something you might think about.

He would
like to work out some accommodation.
The thing he mentioned
three different times was travel restrictions. ~

IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
He was here last week.L-~~~--~~==~~~~==~====~----------~
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

There was a war, which they lost, and he understands that.
But
there are Argentines with relatives there, or relatives buried
there, and if they could get some across, to get access to do
things.
Whatever happens, if you could look into it, without
raising the fundamental questions from the war, it would be
positive for you and him.
Je1

speak soon. ~
Okay.
Okay.
Bye.
Bye.
The President:
I will look at that.
(U)
(U)
End of Conversation
..- :;
CONE'IDElfrIAL
Bill, we.' 11
cm;rFIDENTIAL
THE WHITE HOUSE
WAS
E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)

DECLASSIFICATION DATE; October 14, 2015
MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION.

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers:
James Smith, Roger Merletti,
David Higgins, Matthew Sibley, Elizabeth
Rodgers, Robin Rickard, Michael Manning,
Larry Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
time.
(U)
February 4, 1999, 2:13-2:30 p.m. EST

Oval Office
Nice to hear your voice.
Al had a wonderful

It was great. He went down well. He was
fantastic with all the New Deal programs. He met with all those
business people.
The unemployment program was really
impressive.
I thought it was a good visit and he was fantastic
on it.
(U)
The President:
He also liked when he went into Prescott's
office and the only decoration was a bowl of bananas.
I heard
(U)
all about it. He was very happy.
I hope we get all that sorted out.
(U)
The President: My staff won't let me talk to you unless I have

a banana at hand.
I'm sitting here with a banana; it's a big,
ugly, brownish one.
(U)
about Kosovo.
~
COHFIDENTIAL
Reason:
1.5(d
Declassify On:
Now Bill, I thought we should have a word
CONFIDEH'fIAL
The President:
Yes.
Let me tell you, the Prime Ministers of
both Macedonia and Albania were here today and they make .us look
like old men.
They are 31 and 33 years old.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

I think Robin and Madeleine did a reall~
good job and we got a plan.
The parties are coming on Saturday
and the KLA are involved, as well.
That is all good.
The President:
I agree.
(C)
The President:
First of all, I agree with everything you say
about maintaining pressure on Belgrade and the Kosovars on the
interim settlement.
I'm encouraged by Saturday's talks.
There
is no other way it works over the long run unless we can get a
peace agreement and troops on the ground. -tc+-
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
It is a hard sell in Congress. They still lecture me on Bosnia

and how we didn't pay for it in advance.
I tell them Bosnia is
a great success story and they ought to be proud of it and keep
it going, and not let it be wiped out.
I gather there is a
general feeling that a lot of European countries are willing to
make troop contributions. That will help me to get Congress to
support participation. You know I always want to be part of
these things.
~
CONFIDEN'fIAL
CONFI DENT IA L
I just gave a speech today.

I basically said we were
considering our participation and talking to Congress about it.
I will make the strongest case I can, but our system is that
they have to come up with money for it. The more European
countries that are willing to participate and the greater
extent, the better luck I will have with the Republican
Congress. .J.I21
Ironically, all the business with me might help us get something
done here.
I think the announcement of substantial British
participation, which I gather is your decision, will help us a
lot.
I want to help and I made my first big public pitch today.
We will work with Congress and stay in close touch. Our
military people are in contact and are simultaneously designing
this concerning who contributes what.
I will do the best that I
can.
I wish I could give you a number now, but I don't know
what level yet.
I am working it and I'll do the best I can .
..k81"
Well, Bill, that is great.
The President:
Great. Let me say, there's one other thing that
would help me.
If you put out that we talked, say that we have
this under active consideration. That is what I just said
publicly.
If you could not say that I have made a definite
decision. Because the Congress is Republican, at every public
hearing we have, they start moping and saying that I expect them
to fall in line afterward because they never refuse to support
the troops.
If you could say I haven't made a decision, that
would give me another day to massage the congressional psyche
and break it loose here. kef
Don't worry, that is absolutely fine.
That is very good indeed. Thanks, as ever.
~
The President:
Well, you are doing great.
press in the New York Times.
(U)
CONFI DEH'l? IAb
Well,
You even got good
it cost a lot of money.
(U)
The President:
You got good press in the New York Times and I
got a good editorial in the Guardian.
(U)
Guardian. (U)
Yes, you got an editorial in the
The Pres iden t : They said I was more 1 iberal than you.
know if that is good or bad.
(U)
I don't
Prime Minister Blair: Well, it's good for you. Your state of
the Union, as I suspected, had a big impact around Europe.
I
was in Vienna last week with center-left leaders.
It made a big
impact there.
The President: We need to think about our next steps.

thought that NYU conference was good.
~

They (the Center-left leaders) are
absolutely desperate for it. They now buy entirely the argument
that we can learn from America. The State of the Union did
help. The leader of the United states was talking about
building a cohesive, peaceful society and the rest of it.
It
was language they can understand.
JR7
The President:
Yes.

I think we certainly should do some more.
They are desperate. ~
The President: One thing I think you should have your guys
thinking about. What is our response to tough challenges?
Like, is there a third way response to financial crises? How do
we stop the reversal of trade liberalization and take it up
again? With all these troubles in Asia, the temptations to
close down the movement for trade liberalization will be great.
-i-et"
I think that is absolutel
to be a big part of our discussions.
IE.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d)1
COHFIDEH'FL"rL
. ~-;~--.ft~F'c'=~~c~~~-"'~!
'~~INTON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY
. ~~~_:~~~.-..::_ ;~"~~.!~~,",,-_';_:::::~~~J...."""
r.~;....'i.,-
right.
It has
CONFIDEHT L,\L
IE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I
The president:
I agree with that.
I think when we do the next
G-8 meeting we really ought to give some thought to setting up
our trade position and also think about what wrinkles need to be
in the finance system position as well. We will have a lot to
talk about in advance, but the G-8 will give you a forum and me
a forum and our crowd a forum to elevate some of these issues.
J..&r
I agree completely.
vtI
The President: We will be in constant touch the next few days

to wrap it up and nail down what to do.
;e1
Prime Minister Blair: King Hussein.
I'm really sorry. Je1
What a terrible thing.
The President:
Yes, he just left here. He is going home on
life support. You know he did his best, but I will be surprised
if he pulls out of this. -+et
I just saw him a couple of days ago and
thought he was looking better.
(e)
The President: He had a severe relapse. Noor brought him over
here.
I just think that this is the way these conditions are.
They overwhelm your system and you have nothing left.
Y1
other thing.
CONFI DEN'' lAL
It's a shame for the guy.

(,,~~?-ffi;~~i""~-,-,..=~p~,--..-c;""1
INTON LIBRARY
t
,. . PHOTOCOPY' ..",.
.. - ~"
'.'-,~.. "'~~"..~~.'
.
. -.--~.
..,.....-.',.'..""7",.~;'.~\~~~.:':'>-.<-
,;"
',"
Bill, just one
.IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

6
CONFIDENTIAL
The President: Any time, day ar night.

It is my awn private
passian . . I have been warried far yau. To. the peaple an the
autside, it seems idiatic that we wauld allaw these elements to.
disrupt progress. You are where you are and whatever I can do
to. disladge it, let me know.
If you have something specific for
me to come at them with, let me know that, too. -tet
The President:
Is Bertie going to be all right?
(C)
The President:
I hope so.
The President:
We need him.
(C)
Really, we do need him.
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
Yes.

matters. -+&lThe President:
Let us keep in touch on Kosovo and other
All right, man.

The President:
All right, Bill.
Goodbye.
I'll see you soon.
All the best.
(U)
Goodbye.
(U)
End of Conversation
COUFIDEN'l'IAL
,-
(U)
(U)
CONFI DEN'P VeL
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:
Telcon with British Prime Minister Tony Blair

Of the United Kingdom
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
British Prime Minister Blair
Notetaker: Bonnie Glick, David Higgins,
Robin Richard, Joel Schrader, James Smith
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
February 19, 1999, 10:59 a.m. - 11:24 a.m. EST

Oval Office
How are you?

The President:
Okay.
Fine.
(U)
How are you?
(U)
(U)
Kosovo
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
Chlrac lS with you today?

The President: He is here and I will meet with him in a few
~m~iEn~U!t~e~s~.~==~--~~~~~~======~~~~--~--~--~----~-----\
I E.O. 13526, section l.4(d) I

The President:
Let's make sure we are on the same
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
CONFIDENTIAL
Reason: 1. 5 (d)
Declassify On:i
2/~_,~~~-~~~~,,~~-~~
';:-.
_.
-.
;, ~~I
t'."L~tON LIBRARY PHOT060fy ',:.1. '

"2.~.:::'~ ~!;~:~:;"-:':~;'-~~~;d;~~~;:;'~~';i~_..;';5...-+f~
CONFIDEN'fIAL
'I
The President: Well, I agree with that.

The trick is to give
him some chance to come around and not seem lik
unlimitedly.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
agree with that.
you?
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
The President:
COHFI DEN'!' lAL
--,
,~fi~'~~~;(,
'r~: ,!~TON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY'
t-;.=...~~~~~~.::~:...." ..~--:_._.-.~,: -'-''':'.h._ L':'~~;:'_"" -~-:-o- r;~r,.,:
CONFIDEN'l'IAL
The President:
I agree with that. That is good.
I think we are
doing all right on getting the enabling force together.
I don't
know if Milosevic is playing brinkmanship or not. He seems to
believe he loses Serbia if he lets NATO in there. ke1
Yeah.
L l_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _- - - - -
The President: Let me ask you a couple of questions. What is

your sense on KVM? I know the EU is interested in a n w
structure,
accomplished by tFh~e~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~----,
implementation.
been so forthcoming, and I
want to screw it up. je)
Prime Mi nister Blaic
IL--_ _ _ ______
The President:
That's right.
Is there anything else?
(U)
The President: No, I don't think so. What about Northern

Ireland? Jim Steinberg had a good meeting with Ambassador
Christopher Meyer yesterday on the outlook for the next two
months. We are working on some ideas to complement your strategy
for a push by the first anniversary of the Good FridayAgree~ent.
I am ready to do my part around st. Patrick's day here and look
forward to seeing Mo Mowlam. You have made a lot of progress and
seem to have gotten it back on track. ~
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

CO~jFI DENT' 1AL
COh'PIDEN'fIAL
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
I'm with you.
have no choice.
~
It could boomerang on us but we
Prime MinioterBlair:
- I . - - I_
The President:
)
_
I agree.
Obviously you and I should speak before St. Patrick's day.

The President:
I think that's right.
yt)
Prime Minister Blair: So there it is, I think.

keep in close touch on things. I
CGNF I DEN'3?IAL
~)
So Bill, let's
conFIDENTIAL
The P:r:e,sident:
Six months o:r: so ago
when I spoke to you, I was in a big flght with my T:r:easu:r:y guys'
about the need to have leade:r:s get togethe:r: on it and cha:r:t a
cou:r:se whe:r:e we change the o:r:ientation of the IMF a little bit
and get into the necessity fo:r: inte:r:national standa:r:ds fo:r:
banking. We :r:eally a:r:e moving in steps, in increments towa:r:ds a
B:r:etton Woods II arrangement. I think we realized we :r:ushed into
getting money into them without them having the internal
protection'they needed. But a lot of T:r:easu:r:y folks treat this
like Einstein looking for the theory of relativity or biologists
looking for the cure for cancer: when they find it they will
tell us. I felt our Treasury kept resisting a big meeting six
months ago because markets we:r:e so shaky that if we met and did
not come up with an answer it would foster instability. They
don't feel that way anymore.
(Q1
We have to find a wa
thing kicked off.
around the G-7 or otherwise try to get this
We do need some
forum in which leaders can clearly articulate where we are, what
we have done, and where we are going.
o 0 peop e are upse
the composltion of
the commlt ee of the 25 nations (G-22) meeting because they are
not a sanctioned IMF type group. Maybe the G-7 cuts a lot of
people out of the loop and a lot of those nations think Europe is
over-represented. I am not hung up on that myself but, we do
need to find a way to have higher visibility to let the world
know we are working toward a more stable position. We ou ht to
tr to resolve this when the G-7 meets in Germany.
P:r:ime Minister Blair:
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
COHFI moNT L",L
.
~
'"~
~
......
CONFIDEHl'IAL

The President:
say?
yt)
Yes,
I like that.
What do you think Chirac will
The President:
I got
track, but we need to
you back after I talk
right frame of mind.
).e1
it.
I'm with you.
I think we are on same
figure out how to keep going.
I may call
to him, but I will try to get him in the
~I_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _~/
The President:
I am worried about Russia as well.
have spent some quite intense discussion time on this.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

The Russians have no tax
system.
I don't know what to do about all that either, but we
should talk about it.
Its almost like a psychological problem,
in part, as well as the obvious political problem. We may need
to put a little more money on the table for them to do that.
~

i You and I
can talk about it later~.----------------------------~ ~=-~~--~----~~
IE.O. 13526, section
The President: All right, I'll follow up.

with Jacques right now.
+e1
--End of Conversation--
CONFI DNTI}U
I'm going to meet
1.4(b)(d)i
COpFIDENTIAL
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:

(U)
The President
PARTICIPANTS:
Notetakers: George Chastain, Doug Bayley,

Frank Jarosinski, Matthew Sibley, Roger
Merletti, Jim Smith and Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
March 4, 1999, 4:40 - 5:04 p.m. EST

Oval Office
Hi, how are you doing?
(U)
The President:
I'm fine, I guess.
I just got a bunch of stuff
going on here, but everything is all right. How are you doing?
(U)
I am fine.
you about this damn thing.
I'm really sorry to bother

The President:
When is the election, May 6?
Jef
Yes, May 6.

The President: Let me tell you what.
I have to be a little
careful about how I say this. Most of our people think that the
WTO panel may approve a smaller aggregate amount.
If they
will try to do what I can to be helpful.
CONFIDENTIAL

Reason: 1.5(d)
Declassify On:;
i
CONFIDENT 13\L
we do this, it will presumably be well in advance of the

election. Anything you can do through Leon to get the WTO panel
to make their decision would be very helpful.
The only way we
can get nailed is if they approve the exact amount, but I assume
it will be lower, then we'll have an opportunity. -teT
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
Prime Minlster Blair:
The President:
They are significant.
One of the things I've
tried to do before, and I hope this year will pass, is a new
initiative to get more money through trade and investment.
They're extremely vulnerable to drug lords, and bananas will be
essentially a holding action.
I think that maybe this is
something the European Union and United States can do together
and get them more help down there.
I am worried about both
Caribbean and Central America because of this storm.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
I think it is a legitimate serious issue, not just

about two Central American countries going broke.
It's a deeper
thing on all sides.
I would be prepared to work on that.
The
main thing between now and May is to get these guys to talk.
If
you could get the WTO panel to make a rapid decision, maybe we
could work something through on this.
~
(..e)
The President: What they could do, what I am worried about, is

they may be sympathetic to you, and maybe rule against you on
the merits.
If they keep kicking the can down the road, that
would be the worst for you politically. ~
The President:
I agree with you.
I'm trying to pass a billion
dollar trade initiative and all the right-wing Republicans
bailed out on me yesterday.
They spent all that money, billions
Ir.:E:-:.0;::-".-:1735==2:-::6-,s-ec-'-tl:-'o-n71."':-4(7b7":)(-:7ld)I
COHFIDEN'fIPrL
'JE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)J
and billions, supporting dictatorships and taking sides in civil

wars, but they won't help me get them back on their feet.
They're trying to keep me from getting it before I go down there
next week,
..(-et
~rime
Minister Blair:
The President:
I got it. Look, basically what is at stake here
is I've had to fight back 80 percent of both parties in Congress
who want to legislate something worse than what I did. The
whole credibility of the WTO is at issue here. But what is
important, in order for me to do anything, is for the WTO to
decide sooner rather than later.
I should have some flexibility
if they decide that it should be X million dollars less. ~
That would be very helpful.
The President:
That is why it's important not to talk about it.
Because if we do I will have everybody allover me.
~
\
The President:
Can I ask you another quick question.
Yes.
(U)
(U)
The President: What do you want me to say on

over here? Where will we be by then? ~
st.
Patrick's Day
CmJFIDENTIAL
JE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)J
1'----_ _ _--'--_-----'1
The President: Let me ask you this.
Is there some way to
manifest the commitment by something they say to you or me?
Then a week later, some big declaration on decommissioning.
there some way to do it that way? le1
Is
'------~~
The President:
Right now, they're saying trust me.
could make these statements, then dick around. Jk1
But they
The President:
J,R:}
How do they justify the Good Friday accords?
GOHFI DEWl'Ilffi
CGNFIDENnAL
I
The President:
I completely agree. If you have any more
instructions or advice between now and st. Patrick's Day, I'll be glad to have it. But, I got it. ~
The President:
I think we have a chance to get the Kosovars to
all right on the Kosovo agreement. J21
The President:
Yes.
Really?
(C)
(91
The President: Bob Dole went over there today for me. He's
been a champion of theirs.
I'd say we have a pretty goud
chance.
I'm worried about the possibility of the Kosovars
saying yes, Milosevic saying no, and NATO will blink.
I'm
really worried. We need to suck it up. You and I may have to
do another round of calls. ~
The President:
stuff,
j)2')
All right.
Let me know about all this other

Thanks a lot.
(U)
The President:
I'll see you.
If you have anything more on the
other issues, let me know, directly or indirectly, through our
channels.
(U)
CONFlDEN'i'IAL
C~FIDEN'fIAL
Again, sorry to trouble you.
(U)
The President: That's okay.

I may have to start ordering 50
_percent of my bananas from the Caribbean and Central America.
(U)

See you.
(U)
The President:
Okay, Bill.
Good-bye.
All the very best to you.
(U)
CONFI DEN'!' lAL
., ..' ..:...!....
COHFI DEN}' IAL
lil{l
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASH INGTON

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Tom Crowell, George Chastain,
Robert Ford, Matt Sibley, Lawrence Butler
and Miriam Sapiro
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
March 14, 1999, 1:55-2:12 p.m. EST

The Residence
Hi, Bill.
(U)
The President: Hi, Tony.

I had a really good trip down to
Central America.
I am a bit tired.
It was a good trip.
(U)
Did you just get back?
(U)
The President:
I got back a couple of days ago and then had to
turn around and go to Arkansas. But it was a good trip.
The
thing I found interesting was that despite all the horrible
problems they have had with the hurricane and the legacy of all
of the civil wars, those places are very well governed, with
enormous potential.
They're all very poor, except for Costa
Rica, but they're very well governed. The biggest problem is in
the aftermath of all the civil wars a lot of guns were left
there, something that you know about. There are also a lot of
criminal gangs in the rural areas that make them less than safe
so it is hard to get tourism going there.
In El Salvador there
were former rebels and soldiers in suits listening to my speech.
It was quite nice.
(U)
I thought we could have a quick word on
Northern Ir'eland before they all get there.
(U)
The President:
I agree.
(U)
COUFIDEN'1'IAL
Reason:
1.5(d)
Declassify On: 13/1~{.Ji~~,.;.{,,-~~-~-:--~-----,:\'
~~1NTO~ LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY, 'f'

'.
~:~~..:;~.-,:,,:,.~:,".<;';~j_.~..:::+; .>__ :~_;'~:~.r.-.~.t.~.:. ~r'"
CotfPIDEN'fIAL

The President:
First, I completely agree with that. George
Mitchell believes that there can't be very much time between
what Trimble does and the movement on decommissioning. They
need to give some sort of private assurances that they can
pocket. If they can't give i t to Bertie or DeChastelain, to you
or someone.
I am beginning to get a little concerned. )k1
The President:
I agree.
I will do whatever I can to help get
this done.
We will just have to see, but I am quite hopeful.
(,e'(
CONFI DE~lT L""L
CONFIDEN'I'IAL
The President:
That's fine.
I don't mind.
I am determined not
to let this. get away_
We need this badly, and I would like to
resolve this in the first half of this year, if we can. This
will give us the momentum while all the other things are going
on.
I will do whatever you want me to.
I will do whatever it
takes. )ef
The President:
Yes, I told D'Alema you can do whatever you
should. We have never had a problem with the EU having a
different position than the United States. EVen going back
before my presidency, we were sponsors of the resolution leading
to the Oslo accords.
We have to sa those issues will have to
be resolved in the last phase.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
The President:
principle.
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
Exactl.
That is m
osition as a matter of
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
Yes.
Okay, thanks.
I think you are right where you
The President:
If not, then don't
need to be.
If you think it helps, do it.
do it. ..(-e)
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
CONFI LiEN T 1AL
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
CONFIDENTIAL

~
The President:
~----------------------------------~
That is my conclusion. -fer
The President:
When is the G-7 meeting in Germany?
In the middle of June.
The President:
You are going to do something here with the DLC,
aren't you?
(C)
Yes, in April.
The President:
Our guys are worried about it raining on NATO's
parade. We got huge press coverage here yesterday. They went
to Harry Truman's home to sign the documents for the NATO event
with Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic. +et

The President:
Let me have a look at my schedule.
In the first
half of the year it would be extremely difficult to make a
separate trip, but if I am in Germany, maybe I can add a day
onto my trip. Where does he want me to do it, in Florence? ~
I think so.
ke1
The President: That would be a real burden, would it not?

Someone has to shoulder the responsibility.
~
Have you been there before?
(Q1
The President:
Yes, Hillary and I spent a wonderful week there.
As a matter of fact, it was ten years ago this week.
Y21
I love it. It is one of my favorite
cities in the world.
I will think about it and get back to you.
JKJ
CONFIDEN'fIAL
COHPIDEN'PIAL
The President: Good.

I think that we are in sync on the other
two matters.
I won a big vote in Congress on Kosovo.
I think
it's interesting because when the Republicans pushed for it,
they didn't think I would win it. Our guys worked very hard on
it and won a big vote with explicit authorization to deploy,
consistent with the conditions I've stated.
I feel good about
it. But I don't think there is any way that Milosevic will take
this deal.
But we believe the Kosovars will take it and then .
we will be right back
and I.
KO. 13526, section 1.4 d

IKO. 13526, section l.4(b)(d)I
The President:
If the Kosovars say yes, and they have been
difficult, we may even get Milosevic to the point where he will
say yes -- if we stay tough and if we are prepared to use force.
But if not, he will jerk us around. ).e1
The President:
Yeah, I will do that. Do you want me to buy a
cashmere sweater from him with duties? ~
bananas.
.(.e)
You don't have to do that or give him
The President:
I wish we could get this resolved before your
elections, you know.
IZ5
IKO. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I
The President: We got a really rough column that said this is

not what the new world order was meant to be. Kosovo goes to
hell, and we have a war over this. ~
CONPI DEN'fIAL
Do shake hands with him.
(91
courT BEtH' L"tL
The President:
I thought I could have my whole wardrobe of
Scottish cashmere brought down to him.
The Irish wouldn't like
it.
Hell, I think even the Irish sweaters I have are Scotti~h.
Okay, I will see you.
~
Okay, all the best to you.

COUPI DEWPIAL
(U)
SECR]!;T
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON

E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Doug Bayley, Frank Jarosinski,
Joel Schrader, Miles Murphy and Lawrence
Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
March 21, 1999, 12:50.- 1:12 p.m. EST

Residence

The President:
Hi, Bill.
How are yoU?
(U)
(U)
I'm fine.
How were things last week?
(U)
The President:
What do you mean, last week?

and everything.
jet
(U)
With the Irish -- Gerry Adams, Trimble
The President:
I'm sorry; I have been through all kinds of hell
with this Kosovo thing. You ought to get a transcript of George
Mitchell's comments to them.
I gave him a Medal of Freedom
here. He said, "I don't want to talk about what I did, but what
needs to be done." He said, "I hope that about a thousand
people will ignore me while I make these remarks to the
parties." It was devastating. He was great.
~
I heard he was brilliant.
The President:
I did exactly what you asked me to. Hell, I
don't know.
It looks to me like Gerry needs some sort of cover
SECRE'f
Reason:
1.5(d)
Declassify On:
8ECRET
for demilitiariztion and then can give cover to Trimble to do

what he needs to do. ,It is important to keep pushing it
forward.
(.Q1"
Okay, that's what we will do.
J.Gt
The President: Anyway, I did the very best I could.

I had
chills running up and down my spine yesterday.
There is a new
book here by Daniel Silva who is a former Washington journalist.
The book is called "The Marching Season" and you are in it.
For
some reason he uses a fictitious President, but the real you.
There is an ultrasecret Protestant group and they are out there
acting against everybody -- Protestants, Catholics.
It's purely
fictional,-but it gave me the chills about what could happen if
we don't keep doing this.
I was frustrated, and I know you are,
but I don't know what else I can do.
I will do whatever.
(C)
Okay, Bill, thanks anyway for last week .
..(-e)
The President:
You have to table some fix for this and let us
pressure Adams to take it.
I don't think there is anything else
we can do. ~
The President: Can we talk Kosovo? Milosevic has agreed to

meet Holbrooke. He will go over there tomorrow and tell him he
will bear the full responsibility for consequences for NATO
military action unless he does what he is told to do.
I got
reports this morning of one village of 13,000 people that has
been completely evacuated.
SECRE'f
SECRE'I'
Primakov is supposed to come here next week, and I need to give

him a heads up so if he wants to cancel he can. ~
Absolutely . .....fBi
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

The President:
I couldn't a ree more.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

There are one "or two issues
that I want to talk to you about'before going on, but we can
talk in the next day or two on that. ~
The President:
I agree with that.
I had a meeting with a lot
of members of congress and several Republicans said that it
sounds bad -- if he were out there practicing ethnic cleansing
again we would support it, but if we take the initiative and he
moves against the people it will look like we caused it.
(S)
Sr:CIZEI
3ECRET

I
I
The President:
The reason we did not take any other action is
because the peace process was going on. ~
The President:
That is what my critics here are going to say .
......l-51
The President:
I agree with that. Let me ask you this. How
are the Tories reacting at home? Are they supporting you? .-\-B1
,prime Minister Blair:

The President:
Our right wing isolationists certainly would if
they thought they could get public opinion on their side and
since they have the parliamentary majority they would cause a
problem.
The Republicans fluctuate between isolationism and
unilateral action. They want the biggest possible military and
want to spend money on only the military and concrete, but never
want to use it on anything.
I think that in the near term I am
in need of a stronger presentational argument than you are.
I
am hoping that it will be fine, I couldn't agree more that we
3ECRE'f'
SECREr
need to get a strong presentation.

If the others are going with
us, we need Chirac and Schroeder saying the same thing. ~
The President: Yes, I will call them when I get off the phone
with you.
I understand they are even chiding us a little bit
about whether we are moving quickly enough.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
I have to call and tell him the

truth and let him stay home if he wants to. But he still needs
to come here because he needs the money and the IMF agreement
worked out.
(S)
The President:
I am still very worried about it. And I am
worried about them because the Duma seems incapable of doing
anything positive to help themselves along.
We could save them
a lot of money if they could ratify START II.
Then I could go
immediately to START III. And then I could pass this bill to
accelerate threat reduction with the nuclear stockpile that
could occupy as many as 20,000 or half the military scientists
over the next two years. But the Duma seems incapable of doing
a lot of this stuff.
I don't think we have any choice
whatsoever. We don't want to polarize them further, but we need
to take some form of action. 121
The President:
You got it. One thing we have to figure out is
a strategy that will keep the money there that we pump in. All
the money disappeared in 48 hours the last time. ..(..et
SEeRE'!'
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
SECRE'f
The President:
Why don't we plan on talking tomorrow or the
next day and we will work on Kosovo right now.
~
Prime Minister Blair.
Okay, we will be in a position to
discuss it again tomorrow. ~
The President:
Okay man. Sorry I didn't do more on Ireland,
but I tried.
I even got Trimble and Adams to sit in my private
office alone for a while.
JQ1
Well it went off very well here.
kef
The President:
I think the public vibes were very good indeed,
but I didn't have the feeling that I helped you move the ball
forward on the substance of it. ~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)!
Prime MInIs er Blair:

.~I
________________________________------------~
The President:
I don't think Gerry wants it to get off the
tracks and that is heartening.
I know damn well Trimble does
not, but he wants his leadership position as well.
(e)
~
'-------~/
The President:
If you could have a referendum on this, the
people could come up with 15 permutations. ~
I
The President:
That's another thing I thought about.
I think
the IRA people with personal history have a lot more ideology on
this whole decommissioning issue than the facts warrant. They
seem to think that if they unilaterally do this, it is like
saying that what the struggle is all about and what they said
all those years is illegitimate. They are loading a lot of crap
that does not need to be loaded. The only way to get off the
psychological hook is to make it part of a bigger disarmament or
find some proposal people could ratify and let their reps off
the hook.
The atmospherics seem great, but I didn't have any
specifics that I could glean.
I don't see Trimble having a
viable option.
I did not mean to be so negative but I don't
SECRE'F
3ECREl'
think Sinn Fein thinks they can say different words and make it
happen. I don't think words alone will do it.
~
The President:
IE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
All right man.
(U)

(C)
The President:
I agree. If there is a problem with Chirac or
Schroeder I will have to call you back.
(C)
The President:
I am here.
Bye, Tony.
(U)
(U)
TH E WH ITE HOUSE:
WASH INGTON

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Jenny McGee, Miles Murphy,
Ralph Sigler and Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
March 23, 1999, 5:11-5:22 p.m. EST

The Oval Office
I'm fine.
I'm in Berlin.
(U)
The President:
I know, Gerhard just told me you were there.
Holbrooke is on his way back. Milosevic stiffed him. He
wouldn't agree to a cease-fire. He was belligerent and it seems
to me he's strongly poised to unleash reater violence in
Kosovo.
I want to talk about two things: first, Pri~akov has postponed

his visit to Washington. I think that's the best outcome given
the circumstances. Maybe you can call him in the next day or
two and tell him you understand why he didn't come to
Washington.
SECl":t!:T
Reason:
1.5(a,b,d)
Declassify On:
3/23/0_9~,c~~,~ __~---~(
r"...A,?.::-.----,"~- .. ~;::--,:.
,'
'~:r~~LffiRA~~ PtlO:OCOPy__
"----:~ ;-~-:.:..:;-,-=- ;; ..--.,...'~ .-,:",~: -': '-.... --,.-~---."-,:;----'-~-.---.' -
,""
SECRE'P
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
The President: \

I
The President:
Yes, we sat around the room today saying, "Geez,
this is re~11y bad. We could lose what we did in Bosnia but we
have no option." If we don't, he will just clean them out, kill
a bunch of people and do bad things.
SECRE'f
SECRET
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

The President:
L-~IE=.=O=.1=3=52=6=,s=e=ct=io=n=1.=4(=b=)(::::d)::!....I_...J1 ~
Is Jacques there with you, or is Jospin there?
( C)

The
~resident:
They are both in Berlin, yes.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

The President:
Did it go over well in Europe?
Prime Minister Blair: Yes, it went over very well.

said it was ver effective.
Our media
The President:
I am completely there and knew you would be too.
I
I "0.13526,
""'0" 1.4(d)
Okay, I will speak to him about that.
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
SECRET
SECRf:T
The President:
I couldn't agree more.
fer
The President:
There have never been any natural boundaries.
couldn't agree more. ~
. Prime Minister Blair: We will make strong points and I will

speak to D'Alema and Chirac tomorrow. ~
The President:
Great, if you want to call me any time of the
day or night, call me.
I don't expect to sleep much tonight.
(C)
Tougher than Iraq isn't it?
The President: Yeah. They have better air defenses and we have
people in the vicinity that are vulnerable. The stakes are high
but the potential benefits are enormous. jQ1
The President:
I hope Milosevic can find a way out. He
compares it to the Ottoman Empire and how they stopped them In
Bosnia, and now he stands up to the Empire of the West.
It is
crazy.
()21
L -_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _- - - - The President:
Okay.

The President:
(U)
All right, Bill.
Goodbye.
All the best.
(U)
SECRE'f
(U)
SECRE'f
.'
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Joel Schrader, Miles Murphy,
Jenny McGee, Jim Smith and Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
March 30, 1999, 6:12 - 6;24 p.m. EST

Residence

The President:
Hi Bill.
Hey Tony.
(U)
How are you doing?
Are you sleepy?
(U)

The President:
doesn' t it?
yzi
Not much sleep in Northern Ireland.
(U)
Kind of makes you long for the Albanians,
Pretty much.
How is it going there?
The President:
I think your statements have been
seem to have a real consensus.
reat.
We
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President: Yes, I agree with that. They're all saying

maybe we didn't think it through, but we didn't have all the
time in the world.
,sECElli:T
Reason:
1 . 5 ( a, b, d)-
Declaosify On"
' . , ._" ___ 0~--~~""
4/~~::::~CPHO:OCOPY
,t_:=~3.:.~i;'i~;;C~.:"-:~;,j"~"7""~~:"":"'. .:.-.:.:,~~ ..~,...:::-,-/;o.:;-'"
fC)
SECR!!:!
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
I urge you to keep briefed on this issue on particulars, in part

because we are being nickeled and dimed on some of the details
by the Allies. My instinct is to go on for maximum
effectiveness. ~
IE.O.13526, section l.4(b)(d)1
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
The President:
We need them over here.
The President:
Where? -+T
ye)

L - - I_
Who were they?
---:----~
Are they living in London now, or Albania?
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
Can you have your people send the names to our
people so we know who they are? I want to stage a meeting here
to give them some American publicity. ~
The President:
SECRE'P
I will put that in train.
Alright, where are we on Ireland?
-+er~
SECRE'!'

The President:
Why?
What is their argument?
The President:
What is the IRA excuse for not doing it?

\
The President:
How can it be surrender when the war is over?
-teT
'--------_--..1
The President:
3ECRE'!'
And they don't buy that?
gECRE'f
The President:
Do you want me to caI1 Gerry?
-+e-r
I
~
\~--------------------~
The President:
When do you want me to call Adams?

time is it now?
I think it's worth calling him.
(91
The President:
there? ..ke7
ye1
It's getting late.

even now. j.eJ
What
What is it, twelve-thirty
It's probably not too late to call him
The President: But in no case no later than tomorrow.

see what I can do. k1
OK, I'll
~--------------~
The President: All he ever wanted was an aggravated bonfire.
To all of us linear thinkers it doesn't seem like much of a big
deal. -+er
The President: It doesn't look like surrender if you have all

these people involved being let out of prison and all the others
are involved. It's crazy. ~
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I.
EGRET
, \\
INTON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY L

i.
'k-:;:2~~~?~~~~~::;':,-:"j~c.::~\':~;:;. ~).:~,_~~~.:;" __:?-:.:_<fF.......::1t: _,"
SECRE't'
, iE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) i
The President:
What are you offering?
What is Bertie offering?
.(e)
The President:
That's got to be harder for them.
The President:
Okay, I will follow up and give you a
have to call you tomorrow anyway.
Thanks, Tony. )K1
Okay, thank you.
(U)
SECRET
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report~
GONFIDEHTIAJ:j
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASH INGTON

SUBJECT:
Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair arid

Irish Prime Minister Ahern (U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Ahern
Notetakers: Jenny McGee, Miles Murphy,
Matt Sibley, Bob Ford and Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
April 1, 1999, 6:32 - 6:38 a.m. EST

The Residence
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
CONFI DEN'f IAL
Reason: 1.5(d
Declassify On
COUFIDEN1'IAL

Prime Minister Ahern:
Prime Minister Ahern: /
The President:
It's naIve for them to beiieve you can have a
break or a pause or wait for Easter without this thing getting
out. It's not possible.
~

IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President:
night?
(U)
No, no, It's all right.

up.
(U)
You have problems.
Have you been up all
I gather you've been
The President:
Tony, what are you going to do the rest of the
day?
Are you going to bed?
(U)
CONFIDENTIAL
,-
'CO~IFIDEN'fViL
The President: ,r may want to talk to you on a secure line later

to tell you where I think things got off track a bit and what we
need to do now.
I don't have it all sorted out but would really
like to talk to you, because we really cannot afford to be
defeated on it. Let me talk to Gerry. 'The main thing is to let
you publish this thing if you pause for reflection. ~
The President:
Let me call him back.
Goodbye.
(U)
Goodbye.
(U)
End of Conversation
cmlFI DEN'fIAL
3EeRE'!'
I,S2-THE WHITE HOUSE

WASH INGTON

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Jenny McGee and Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
April I, 1999, 7:03 - 7:12 a.m. EST

The Residence

The President:
Yes, hi Bill.
(U)
Have you talked to Adams since I talked to you?
(U)

The President:
No.
(U)
IL____~I=E=.O==.1=3=5=26=,=se=c=ti=on==1.=4=(d=)=_________~1(C)
Well done, Bill.
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

The President: A week from Tuesday we'll have a celebration,

but we'll probably need it by then.
I never thought I'd ever be
longing for the problems of Northern Ireland. ~
CONFIDEN'I'IAL
Reason: 1.5(a.b,d)
Declassify On
4~~_~--' ~_O' ~,
-i -~T~~ L;~RARY PHOTOCOPY' '}.

~':o'~~.-~~-:-_~_.:_ -...';.. =-.:-__~ '__ -..-:,;- _'_, '. ,,- ~
We had another bad night weather-wise. I should go out a little

more. There was a good article in the New York Times. I don't
know if you saw it but it talked about what a good job you've
done making the case in Britain. Although we're at about 58
percent, but having these guys arrested and beat up may not be
so ood.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
Prime
Blair:
~--------------------~
The
the
hit
hit
our
President: The press today has got this big article saying
CIA tried to tell us he would accelerate his attacks if we
him. Hell, we knew that but that's an argument for having
him 30 -day s earlier. I t;::.-,-,h""i~n,""k,--"w:..;:e=-'-,r"-,e",--"-",o~n",n",a,--,h.:.:a=-v"-e",--",t""o---->t,-,,a,-,l,-,k-,--,,,",,,-_--,
allies on where we are.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
The President: Are you having to run all these targets by your
Attorney General? k8f
'-------------)
The President: Holbrooke believes strongly we should be hitting
the media, power grids, and oil stuff with little collateral
damage. Shutting down the TV networks will have an impact.
~
SECREl'
The President:
The refineries. I approved all that stuff.
There is some chance of collateral damage, but it seems to me
really.remote. }81
IE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President: We may need to examine if anything can be done

in the daytime, too. k8f
Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President: Tell you what I'll do. I have a meeting on this
in about two hours time, and will fly down to Norfolk to see the
troops, which I certainly need to do now that three of our guys
have been apprehended.
We are torn between doing something to
keep the alliance unified or do something that works.
I will
check back in and ca 1 1 you 1 ater today. You and I have to talk
this thing through. I

IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President:
Well.

The President:
SECRET
(U)
I'm around anytime you want, Bill.
Thanks, Tony.
(U)
(U)
3ECRE'

The President:
Alright.
(U)
Alright Tony, we'll talk.

SECRET
(U)
ECRE'l'
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Bob Ford, Sean Tarver, James
Smith and Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
April 1, 1999, 3:54 - 4;04 p.m. EST

Oval Office

The President:
get any sleep?
Hi, Bill.
Hi and excuse me.

(U)
(U)
How are you doing?
Did you
Prime Minister Blair: Not yet, but hoping to.

God, these
negotiations are a nightmare, but thanks so much for the help.
(U)
The President:
I hope I did help and Sinn Fein will start
negotiations.
The initial spin on it was okay. ~
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
It looks like we got permission tonight from all
the NATO guys to do most of what we wanted to do, but I wanted
to say that I think we need better procedures here.
They tell
me Wes Clark is spending half or more than half his time every
day trying to schmooze the Allies. There should be'a mor
orderly way to pick the targets and vet them.
don't think we want to be in a position where every

I have to make six phone calls to ramp things up . ,r
,sECRET
Reason:
1.5(a.b,~l
, " ..
Declassify On:!
' .
<
. ' --=------ ---_. ""

<
<
4/~
. ~ .. ,..-~q-:,--~-
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I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

No.
j81
The President: A lot of people knew what they were going to be

and were preparing for the~, so one of our fighter groups had to
turn around and come back. j81
My God.
}21
The President:
That's why we keep this close.
I am not
accusing anybody, these are just the facts.
But the more people
that know, you increase exponentially the potential for leaks or
intercepted conversations, anything of that kind. So we need to
try to keep this closehold.
(5)
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
SECRET
3ECRE'f'
The President:
I will have Sandy follow up with your guys and
we will figure out who contacts whom. We'll talk to Solana and
get a newprocedure approved. We need to approve targets
quickly and hit them. We need to be relaxed about this,
determined but relaxed. We're not in a panic.
~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
If it looks like we're afraid someone is going
to wimp out on us, we would never get a decent deal.
~
Prime-Minigter Blair:
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
We've unsettled him some. We've had some
substantial strikes. We're not where we need to be yet, but we
need to keep after it.
~
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
Yes. And it would be very well received here;
we cannot act like we're bombing timidly and making a plea for
peace.
That's not a position we can afford to be in. ~
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
That we have to hit them harder.
In fact, a
couple of senators have come out in favor of ground troops.
Though that could be a Trojan Horse. ~
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
We'll have our people come up with a strategy
for who you and I should call.
I will call Schroeder to see if
he will agree to a new procedure on target setting.
This is too
slow; we are encumbered by weather now, but as a practical
measure you will have more influence with Europeans than I will.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4( d) I
We can't afford to have Clark spending half his day, every day
trying to get approval to do his job rather than doing his job.
DEeRE'!'
SE'CRE'F
e re on an open l~ne, so I don't want to

get into details, but we have gotten in a position now where we
can really, with the weather cooperating, do some more things
and get some more results.
I think it is quite important, and
it's an acceptable agreement if we don't have to keep slashing
awa. We've got to show real strength and impact here. )...S1
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I agree.
The President:
Alright.
Thanks.
121
I
I
~-------------------~
The President:
I am happy to do it.
It's lasted so long that I
yz)
may miss it when it's gone. But I doubt it.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President:
Goodbye. -tel
We'll have our people work out strategy.
Goodbye.
(U)
End of Conversation
agCRET
E:CRE'f
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:
Telcon with Prime Minister Blair
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
(U)

Matthew Sibley, James Smith, Roger Merletti
and Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
April 5, 1999, 1:50 - 2:11 p.m. EST

Oval Office
The President:
How are you?
(U)
I'm okay. \
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
I agree with that.

I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
this is important, it helps with the efficacy issue.

SECRE'f
Reason:
1.5(a,b,d)
Declassify On:! 4/91J),>,,-_~,;.;:"--'~-- ~ ...
__
-.
. . . . .---'--'--:..~ _ _ -7-'".~_
'.'- - -~I
C~~TON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY' -
'~~~:":>~~,,:::~"-~-.-3-~.h_>~.~~~;::_ -.~:-.__ ._\~).",,~).
SECRET
Presentationally,
I think you are right.
I agree absolutely.
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
SECRE'f
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President:
I agree with that, but I don't think we are
quite ready to say it. ~
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
I agree. You can be sure all these offers he
makes will not meet that standard. More and more of the
Europeans are of the mind that we may have some definitional
problems down the road.
I'd like to talk about two things that
are related.
One is the refugee issue.
It seems to me we are
doing a little bit better, with NATO taking the lead organizing
with Macedonia and Albania. But we have got to do more and
quickly in finding places to resettle them and the conditions of
their return.
Different countries have different conditions,
camps. J.&r
I don't know, but I know we have to create a release valve to
take the pressure off Albania and Macedonia.
We're increasing economic assistance to

countries bearing the greatest burden.
I hope we
others as we can, but the
offers out now. We don't
their borders and cause a
SECRE'f
can get as many concrete offers from

most important thing is to get those
want Albania and Macedonia to close
worse situation.
~
3ECRE'f
The other thing I wanted to mention is I am quite concerned

about Russia's growing involvement,
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
We have to make it clear we understand this is a

political problem for them, and we don't mind them jumping on
us, but they shouldn't have military support that will put our
pilots and our forces at risk. We can't act as if there are no
consequences to that. -k81
Another issue that we're trying to work on is that surrounding
countries need to thoroughly inspect all the Russian shipments
going into Kosovo to make sure they are not violating the arms
. embargo.
I am concerned about that.
I think the military
situation is in pretty good shape,
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
This is an open line; we have to be careful what
we say. You and I have discussed this before. _ ()
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I
The President:
I agree with that. The problem we are having
here is whether we're taking people in Guantamano or the
continental United States, then they like it and say they don't
SECRE'l'
SECRE'l'
Will they want to go home, once they've seen

Blair:
The President:
I understand the problem. On the other hand, we
have to take enough pressure off Macedonia and Albania so they
don't close the borders to keep their countries from coming
apart. Talk to your folks.
On one level, I'd like to take 100
thousand and put them in America tomorrow and run the risk of
saying people don't want to go home. On another level/ I don't
want any. They might like it here and not want to leave.
(ef
The President:
I agree with that.
I wonder if our public
affairs people should talk specifically to each other.
ke1
Prime Minister Blair.:
The President:
Let's see if we can get this organized.
would make a huge difference. ~
It
L - - - -_
The President:
Let's have our own media people talking. We can
offer to have all 19 join the conference call.
If not, we ought
to have the major countries agreed.
The president:
5ECRE1'
Je1
'r--------------------------------------------
I couldn't agree more.
okay, that's good.
)91
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
SgCRgT
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
I do, too, but we have a ways to go.
People can
say to us you don't have a clear strategy, but we have had clear
goals, but you have got to have the proper mix of long-term
goals and enough flexibility to deal with day-to-day realities.
Getting our presentation a little better has helped some, with the clearing of the weather, the targeting process being worked
out.
I thought your memo was terrific, by the way. ~
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President: Absolutely. We've got that here.
They would be
calling people traitors, now they all join in. Everybody is a
Monday morning quarterback.
The right is saying you should have
ground forces in there. Some people think I'm on the receiving
end of a Trojan horse, that it's a.deliberate set-up. But we
have to take it as it comes and be determined we will not be
defeated, that we will run this strategy out. But under no
circumstances are we going to be defeated.
If you tell me that,
and I tell you that, and we hold hands. ~
Now, let me say one other thing. We had good news on Lockerbie,
with the suspects arriving in the Netherlands.
Thanks for
everything you did on that.
This is great. We got the
sanctions lifted, suspended for 90 days, but Libya will have to
do more to get them lifted permanently. But this is a pretty
good day for us since last August; it's a good argument for
staying the course against terrorism in the long run. You going
to follow up on the NATO PR thing and get back to us -- to Sandy
or someone else -- to see how we coordinate our daily message?
-+BY
Okay, Bill.
The President:
Goodbye.
Okay.
(U)
(U)
End of Conversation
SECRE'
SECRET
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:
Telephone Conversation with British Prime

Minister Blair
(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Bonnie Glick, Matthew Sibley,
Robert Ford, Robin Rickard, Lawrence Butler
and K. C. Brown
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
April 10, 1999, 1:31 -- 1:S0 p.m. EDT

Residence
The President:
Tony?

The President:
(U)
Hi Bill.
(U)
Are you still in Scotland?
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: No, I am back in Chequers now.

(U)
with Jose Maria Aznar.
The President:
days.
(U)
Good.

wishes.
(U)
The President:
I am
He is coming to see me in a couple of
He was telling me to send you his best
Are they happy in Scotland?
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: Yes, a lot happier in Scotland and you

will be getting any amount of cashmere that you want.
(U)
The President:
What I want, is that when I am done here to be
made an honorary UK citizen and give me a seat from Scotland
next door to a good golf course. The daily papers today are
filled with China being pissed off and Russia threatening war.
SECRET
Reason: 1.S(a,b,d)
.
Declassify On:
4/12~_ =,;,r'-~"----'-'-=-~~"\!-:
.
,
~:~~~_~IBRA~YPHOTOC~~~;_J .. :
~~:".:;.>o:,-,:-::~.:,;;:;;-.,-"",,"~->';.. '-.--:;::
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SECREr
If you want, you can give me citizenship and make me a Brit.

(U)

The President:
You are one very popular man there.
I hope that it helps in the elections.
(U)
(U)

It has helped, Thanks for seeing Donald
Leu as well.
What it has done is to emphasize to the people
that sometimes it is useful to be part of something bigger. ~
The President:
Yes, I believe that.
We don't have time to talk
about this today, but when you are here -- I want you to think
about something between now and then -- we have to figure out
how to resolve this stupid banana thing. But the real thing is
that the Caribbean is in. bad shape economically.
I would like
to get a bill through that would treat them like Mexico in
exports.
It would help them a lot if the United states, and if
not the entire EU, then the French, Dutch, and British and
everybody that had some presence there could think about setting
up a joint effort for the long-term development strategy . . We
all have limited money, but if we coordinate it we could
leverage it.
Think about what we could do to help them
diversify their economies. We could try to improve their
economies, increase tourism and personal income, and reduce
their vulnerabilities to the narco-traffickers. Get them to
where they are not completely dependent on bananas. Anyway,
there has never been anything like this in this part of the
world where all the countries with ownership or colonization of
these islands coordinated together.
I think that this is a
third way deal, and I bet we could get some other Europeans
interested.
I don't know if the French would help. The Dutch
might be interested. Some of the Europeans might be interested.
We might think about doing something like that. ~
The President:
That's right. The EU is wrong on the trade
issue but right on the general concern for the Caribbean. The
EU is in the right on the larger economic well being, on the
longer-term interests of the Caribbean. lef
SECRET
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
SEeRE'!'
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
In Central America they are all concerned, I
was just down there and talked to all these guys. They are
sensitive because of the hurricane. What few bananas they have,
they want to sell.
I told them we will help them get through
this, but that we would have to diversify their economies too .
.J.Zi
The President:
The Central Americans. and the Caribbeans sound
like a boys school argument. They ought to be thinking about
making common cause and not pissing down each others' leg to see
who has the biggest bananas. ~
____________~1
The President:
OK, on Kosovo, just want to check in and
reconnoiter where we are. We had greater military impact with
the air actions.
I think if we could do a couple more weeks I
think that we could really have it. The G-8 statement is good.
Have you received the report on the G-8 ministers? We are
hoping to get a statement here involving the Russians.
~
Ll_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __
The President:
That was good. Madeleine is going to see Ivanov
on Tuesday or Wednesday.
I also think that Kofi gave a good
statement.
k81
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President: He is a little miffed, though maybe that's too

strong a word, disappointed maybe or concerned that neither of
us have put out a statement on it.
I told him that you were in
Scotland and that I was preoccupied with the Chinese. I think
that we ought to put one out now because he is out in Europe
now.
There are two things we need to think about.
One is
whether any economic pressures could be put on Milosevic that
don't hurt the Macedonians and the Montenegrens too badly.
I
have a list of things, maybe cutting down on their money
laundering in Cyprus and putting the squeeze on their London
accounts.
I don't want to cause the Montenegrins any trouble.
I will get that list to you today and let you guys look at it
SECRET
and respond to it. Any time that I try to get our banks to do
something the Treasury Department gets squirrelly on me.
It is
always a fight with those guys.
I would like to send you this
list and let you evaluate it. ~
We have to decide whether we want to have a more aggressive
diplomatic initiative and if so, how to intensify the military
action to enhance the likelihood that diplomatic efforts will
succeed, assuming we can achieve all our ob'ectives that Kofi
signed off on and bring Russia into it.

It may turn
out to be, a bigger problem for me than you.
It assumes that we
can achieve our political objectives because Milosevic doesn't
want to get the hell bombed out of him and have Apaches on top
of his tanks.
If you assume -- the one downside is that we are
facing a lot of hurdles -- if you assume that all of our stated
objectives are achievable if we intensify our bombing campaign
without actually toppling Milosevic. Then it seems to me that
there will be some kind of diplomatic agreement for an
international force that will include Russian participation.
They will push Milosevic back when he says who can and cannot be
part of it.
I think that it will be difficult to have NATO as
NATO participate.
The problem this creates for us is Somalia.
J.8J
I don't want to take too much time going over this now but this
is a big problem for us. We went through this in Somalia when
the UN took over command and control. We had a messy deal
during the first part of the Administration. We stayed on in
Somalia when the UN took it over and it was a messy deal.
I
lost some American boys over there and one of them was dragged
naked through the streets of Mogadishu. We made some mistakes
there in what we did and did not do. We basically had serious
command and control problems where the Americans were supposed
to do two things -- the same things we'd have to do if it were a
non-NATO force in Kosovo -- in Somalia we were supposed to be
there doing humanitarian relief and act as a mUltinational peace
force.
One of the factional leaders who since has died, killed
a bunch of Pakistani peacekeepers -- something like 15-20. We
were the only presence there that had the capabilities to figure
out who did it and to go and get him. So the UN wanted us and
tasked us to go and get him, Aideed. The UN tasked us to do
that while doing humanitarian relief. They tasked our guys to
go'into a hotel and get him. Our guys landed on the top of a
hotel in the middle of the day -- he got away and then all of a
SECRS'!'
GECRE'P
sudden more than 300 Somalis started shooting at them.

It is
the sort of thing that if NATO had been doing it, it would have
been totally different:
there would have been different command
and control arrangements, armor and artillery.
So there is
still a lingering bad taste.
I have a lot of support in
. Congress right now.
There is even more than before the Gulf
War. More and more in Congress are saying that they are in
favor of ground troops if we had to put them in there. And I am
telling you this in advance, if you could help me on this
because it is your guys' necks, too.
If they say NATO can
participate, but not as NATO, instead as the UN, we have this
awful memory of Somalia. We would also need the serious command
and control issues to be worked out. We did not have these
problems in Bosnia.
It worked like a charm once NATO went in
and the Russians came in with us. We only had to make an
amendment to the NATO issue.
Does that make sense? kef
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
This was the lowest point of my presidency.
It
was a goddamned nightmare.
I felt personally responsible for
that kid's body being dragged through the streets. So I see
this as a practical measure about k2.eping people alive. We were
prepared to take risks. We had all these glitches because of
the command and control problems. The Russians are allergic to
NATO and Milosevic is allergic to NATO. Keep in mind Tony, I
know you know this, if we go in, we can't go in with one foot.
If we get a multi-national force we have to go in at least with
the commitment to protect the Serbs in Kosovo at a minimum as
well as the Kosovar Albanians. There is enormous grass roots
support right now for the freedom fighters.
This will be a big
force protection issue -- command and control will be critical
with huge political implications. We may have all kinds of
problems where we have both sides pissed at us.
They will be
politically important as well in any country.
~
The President:

I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
I will send you the list of economic sanctions. We

will look like assholes at the garden party if we don't make
SECRE'f
,i
SECRE'l'
sure that everybody understands that NATO means keeping our

people alive.
i&1
/ E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)/
The President:
It is horrible.

/ E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
We need to talk on a secure line or talk when
you get here.
There are arguments both for it and arguments
against it.
We will need to look at in the context of where it
is going to be five years from now. We need to keep our crowd
together and keep at him and get a diplomatic solution with a
mechanism that includes the UN and Russia.
I will follow up on
this.
I am in the country all next week and will get that
economic list out to you. Tell Jose Maria I said hello. Did
you show him Napoleon's pistol and Charles' sword? ~
I took him to Rothschild House today to
see the most amazing works of art.
(U)
The President:
I want to get there.
(U)
You must come back.
(U)
The President:
I will come back to t'he Scottish golf course.
You were the best first-timer that I ever saw play.
(U)
keep in touch.
(U)
The President:
Joking apart, thanks for cashmere.
Thank you, find me a safe seat in a golf cart.
(U)

The President:
Right, good-bye.
Goodbye.
(U)
(U)
SECRE'E'
Let's
ECREf
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASH I NGTON

SUBJECT:
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
(U)
Notetakers:
Jenny McGee, Roger Merletti,
Frank Jarosinski, James Smith,
Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME:
The President:
April 14, 1999, 1:56 - 2:14 p.m. EDT,

Oval Office
Hello, Tony.

fortunately.
Go on.
(U)
Hi, Bill .
This is a secure line,
.JRl"
The President:
Yes.
First of all, I didn't mean to take you
out of a meeting there, but I thought it was important I talk to
you as soon as possible. Aznar was here last night and he was
really good, and I know he is there.
181
Wes Clark asked for another 300 airplanes, and we've got these
Apaches corning in, but the truth is we're just going to have
more and more planes filling the air and restriking old targets
or hoping the weather gets better so we can hit tanks and
soldiers, unless we can get into Phase III targets. We have got
to make these people start paying a higher price. ~
~
was hoping while you're there, you and Aznar could convince
~____~Ito give Clarke and Solana the authority to strike a wider
range of targets.
That would require hitting national level
headquarters, military-industrial targets, the TV towers (which
he has resisted), some of the presidential targets, the power
plants, the Socialist Party headquarters, which also has a
radio-TV broadcasting facility there.
I really believe we are
making a mistake not .turning the heat up on these guys. )-21
SEeR]!!'f
Reason:
1.5 (Q., q)
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I have also been urged by our people to look at preventative

action against some targets in Montenegro.
I know I
I
doesn't want to hit there, but even I
Isaid there were
some things we ought to be hitting. Let me give you an example
or two:
there are several facilities where we think they are
moving in to take their missiles out; in and around the ports in
Montenegro; there's one critical bridge we need to take out,
before they start moving their military units.
So we're quite
worried about their ability to use these facilities.
There are
not a lot of targets and not a lot of risk of civilian damage,
But it's even more important we get to Phase I I I targets within

Serbia.
I know there'll be collateral damage and some
controversy, but if we want any chance of a solution soon, we
have to turn the heat up. ~
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
SECRE'f'
That's what I want to do.
SECRET
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President:
I completely agree.
(U)
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
SECREr
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

:SECRE!
The President:
Let's talk about all the points you've made.
First of all, we're agreed on targets.
On fuel and other
things, we are now banning Yugoslav ships from our ports and the
export and reexport of goods to Yugoslavia.
I hope you can
succeed in tightening EU exports, freezing government and
private projects and the assets of the leadership. You and I
should propose NATO search ships going into Yugoslav ports to
make sure there's no arms or fuel. 121
The President:
Agreed.
(U)
On presentation, Solana is not there, is he?
Je1
'-------~
The President:
Do you want to send someone in? I think there
would be some resentment if I sent an American over there.
Maybe we should talk to Solana and have him ask for more help on
presentation? Do you have someone you can deputize? ~
The President: We've had to start doing a lot more of our

briefings, because they are so ineffective.
(.8f
They start off every day at 3 or 4 o'clock, and the press
conference sometimes goes on for an hour or an hour and a half,
literally answering all their questions.
k&t
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
ECRET
3ECRE't'
The
him
Shouldn't we talk to Solana personally and get

how do we get this done? What's your
The President:
I would support that strongly, and then he could
do the conference call every day, your guy.
keJ
The President:
Okay.
I am completely agreed.
Should we call
Solana separately or together. Separately.
I will tell him we
discussed this, I think your take is right and ask him to work
with you on it. ~
The President:
That is great, Bill.
(U)
Call me after you talk to Chirac and Schroeder.
Yes, I will call
ou back.
The President:
That's why I agreed to do this. With all the
problems, I figured you wouldn't have 19 elected officials with
their asses hanging out to dry. ~
\L-_ _ _ _ _~~
I E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d)1

SECRE'P
SECRE'f
The President:
You've got a deal.

The President.:
(U)
Alright, Bill.
(U)
And on the economic things,
you support them?
.Aef
The President:
Absolutely.
Alright.
One hundred percent.
I will get on it.
3ECRE'l'
SEGREg:'
THE WHITE HOUSE

WAS H I NGTON
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Notetakers: Matt Sibley, Tom Crowell,

James Smith, Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
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Hi, Bill.
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Okay.

straight ahead. fer
3ECRE'f
Fine.
I'll call him tomorrow.
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We'll get clearance on that and go
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April 14, 1999, 6:28 - 6:31 p.m. EDT

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The President:
Good.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: On presentation and structure. I will

speak to Solana tomorrow, and I think it would be good if you
did, too. J81
The President:
Do you want to call first?
(U)
I'd be happy to do that.

The President:
It's a deal. After you talk to him, have
someone c~11our office and then I'll call him. That's great.
J,e1

The President:
We'll speak soon.
Goodbye.
(U)
(U)
SECRET
COMFI DEN!'!:' IAL
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
\~~
__~~~~~~~~~__~~~~r-I-t
was a terrible thing, but in the Gulf War, we had soldiers

killed by friendly fire where the Americans and British were.
So even in a relatively small conflict, these kinds of things
happen. We can't lose the forest for the trees.
(1
Absolutely right.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
That's what I said yesterday.
I was very strong
with the newspaper editors -- you know I completely agree with
you. We're on the same page. We'll get the briefing sorted out
there.

I'll tell you what I have done.
I have
done a note, which is longish, which sets out all my thoughts,
concerns, suggestions on this, on everything we are doing.
If
it's okay with you, I will fax it over to you on a secure fax .
.ket
The President:
Good.
Are we going to get together on Thursday?
(U)
Yes, I think.
(U)
The President:
Do you want to spend the night at the White
House? Or at Blair House, if you want.
I won't get in until 1
a.m., and you may want to be in bed by then, but it's your
option. You can sleep in the same bed Churchill did. +&T
I hope it's appropriate.
(U)
The Presiden-t: As long as you don't parade around naked before

the bath. You're too young and too trim.
(U)
I'm getting older in this bloody job.
Bill, that is great, and then we can meet Thursday mornin .
will get this information over to
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
there Tuesday to tal k
CONFIDEN'fLAL
CONFIDEN'l'IAL
to people, and to SACEUR as well, to get a real fix on what is

happening before the summit.
)Q1
The President:
That's a very good idea. When you come here,
I'd like to develop a strategy on how to work with the others,
including some of the smaller countries.
I think a little
effort on the side could get us a strong voice in making those
folks feel included. Between the two of
I think we can
touch most people . . ,.all of that ... I
E.O. 13526, section l.4(d)
I probably need to call him.

The President:
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
That is what I think.
In Detroit, we had 40,000
Albanians and a whole bunch of Serbs. The Albanians were
outside demonstrating, and I said we have no fight with the
Serbian people; they were our allies in World War II and most
don't have a clue what Milosevic has done in their name in
Kosovo.
I said that was the proper way to express disagreement,
not by killing. We have to be upbeat and resolute.
It is
important to be determined, but not too damned grim, either. We
have to keep spirits up. We're in this world where people
expect instantaneous results. We need to act like this started
the day before yesterday and not twenty years ago. ~

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
If you want me to do any more, like talking to
I thought it would be less
Solana or Wes Clark, let me know.
abrasive to everybody if I didn't lead the charge, and it seems
to have worked out well; but I'll be happy to follow up. +eY
COlQ'FIDEH'I'IAL
COlH'IDEM'fIAL
The President:
I'm sure that's right. There's no reason to
believe these people are trained to deal with this situation.
J..0"
Prime Minister Blair: That's totally right.
This is a
situation they haven't dealt with before. ~
The President:
We will plan on being together on Thursday.
You
decide whether Blair House is more convenient.
It probably will
be fQr your retinue, but you can stay here and put another aide
upstairs if you want.
~
Prime Minister Blair: That is really kind, Bill.
I will get
this note to you on secure fax, and probably we should have a
word over the weekend on the secure phone. ~
The President: Alright, we'll do that.
I understand we made a
little progress on those operational changes you and I wanted
and I am a little encouraged by that.
k8t
Prime Minister Blair: Yes, I think if we really work we can
unblock any obstacles there. We still know where the difficult
points are. ~
The President: We're finally getting some indication they're
feeling it and there's a lot of internal debate within the high
councils. That is important and we need to bear down.
I will
get your fax, and we will talk over the weekend. ~
The President:
Best of luck in Detroit.IU)
I'll see you next week.
Goodbye.
IU)
IU)
End of Conversation
COHFIDEN'PH'W
SECRE'F
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON
...

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers:
Doug Bayley, Miles Murphy,
James Smith, Lawrence Butler and K. C. Brown
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
April 29, 1999, 5:22 - 5:43 p.m. EDT

Oval Office
How are you?
(U)
Fine, how are you?
(U)
The President:
Great.
I thought your trip went very well, and
everyone loved the DLC event we did later.
So I think your trip
went great.
I called to follow up a little bit on the memo you
gave me and what we're doing here.
Let me make three or four
points to respond to your memo and tell you what we are doing,
then we can talk about whatever else we need to. ~
First, on your statement I
We've got a small group working to develop an integrated
strategic plan that will merge our military and strategic
objectives and focus on putting pressure on Milosevic,' his
cronies, integrating military targets, covert action,
psychological operations and public affairs. And it is my
understanding we're already in touch with you. We'll have a
detailed plan ready sometime this weekend and share it with your
people. We will coordinate two to three times a week in a
telephone conference with people in a group led by John Sawers
and Sandy Berger.
So, we'll deal with that issue.
J81
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
SECRET
Reason:
1.5 (a, b, d)
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affairs thing is in much better shape now; the war room you and
I set up has a 24-hour capability and a rapid-response element,
and I think Joe and Alistair are talking two or three times a
day, including~ith the people in Brussels.
I think that's good
and we're trying to bring in the guy who used to work as my
communications director to work our operation here for 30 days
to make sure we've melded our political and diplomatic efforts
together. On all those areas, we're doing pretty well. JBf
That sounds great.
(U)
The President:
The last item you raised is the need to do joint
planning on the ground force option.
I personally believe it
can be done under the umbrella of the assessment. As I told
you, we're working with our guys; they're so afraid it will
leak. We have to work through it, because there's no point in
doing this in detail unless we know how it will mesh together.
I will keep working on that, but I think we've made reasonable
progress on what we discussed and I wanted to see where you are
on that.
.k51
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
If he means we won't assassinate him

or bomb him or extract him from Serbia, I think we can make that
commitment.
I don't think we can make a public commitment on
war crimes, because that is an independent body. Louise Arbour
is here, by the way. ~
I said we're cooperating with the tribunal, so that is a more
difficult issue. He's looking for some assurance, but that's a
pretty dicey thing.
So, that's all I have to report.
I do
think Chernomyrdin has the bit in his teeth to do something, but
whether he can, I don't know.
They are very anxious to playa
role in a diplomatic settlement and go in with their troops.
~
SECRET
One other point:

the Russians might want to be in an area of
Kosovowhere the Serbs are dominant in population.
I said I
personally had'-no problems, as long as the Russians had a hard
and fast commitment to protect the Kosovars.
I had never
discussed this with the American people, not one time, without
saying that if the United States has a role, it will be
providing protection to the Serb minority as well as the
Kosovar/Albanian majority.
vn
The second thing -- and Sandy raised the red flag on this -- I
asked him to make it clear to Chernomyrdin that having Russians
and Greeks, Ukrainians, or other Orthodox denominations could
not become a de facto partition, because the EU has taken a
strong position on this, as has the United States and as has
NATO. As long as there's no partition, I think we could work
that out. Basically, that's a read-out of what D'Alema said.
ft}
Prime Minister Blair: Right. That is very helpful, Bill.
First, I think on the bit with the press side, and NATO and
SHAPE working together, we have a lot of people working well
with your people. That is working better and will get better
still. On the military side, I think that is great, to help
SACEUR with what he is doing. On the video conferencing, I
think that's fine.
The thing to do is have a constant updating
of all the different issues so they know exactly where we are,
feeding through the information we are getting to your guys, and
vice versa. ~
The President:
I agree.
j,21
Prime Minister Blair: On the ground troop thing:

I understand
all the problems, and we don't want this to start running in the
press and everything. We have done some work we are fairly
confident of, ~a~n~d~~~~~u~s~w~i~l~l~h~a~v~e~t~o~~e~t~i~n~t~o~u~c~h~a~s~~o~u~__,
want, reall .
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
So that is my only worry, is

not to get caught by the winter.
The President: Yes, I'm watching the calendar pretty closely.

We're back to the efficacy argument here.
The public in
America, in the latest survey yesterday, is against ground
troops; it supports bombing, but doesn't think it will work.
I
think whatever I decide is right, we can go forward with.
I
03ECRE'f
SECRE'f
think what we don't want to do is not do what we need to do in

terms of planning. They're asking when this will be over.
I
looked at the weather map and said, "May is better than April,
and June is be'Eter than May, and July is better than June."
That had the right effect. It wasn't lost on them, to talk
about how the weather is getting better.
(81
I think it is important, also.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Yes.
I E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d)

The President:
I don't know. I just don't know. We have to
wait and see.
We may have to talk again before the weekend is
over, when we see how he does.
We'll have to wait and see.
My guess is Milosevic will offer a little more tomorrow, but not
enough, and then come back and say, "How about a pause in
bombing?" He's still trying to stiff the Alliance. ~
I want you to think about two things with your planners, if
you've got a pretty good military plan now on the ground troop
option. There are two things. Life is not perfect~ but I
basically had three objectives going in:
one is to win in
Kosovo, to have the people come back to a protected area and
give them autonomy and then to have the larger approach to
southeastern Europe that we discussed.
k5i
The second thing is, to get from beginning to end with the NATO
alliance intact. When you think about it, this is the first
thing NATO has had to do in 50 years.
In Bosnia, we had a lot
of help on the ground from Croatian and Muslim forces; we didn't
have to do as much as we do here. ~
The third thing is, I was so happy about Chernomyrdin being back
in harness.
In talking to all our people, I've said that I want
this to come out in a way that enhances Russia's diplomatic role
and strategic partnership with us. That would be a real boost
SECRE'f
SECRET
to the forces of progress and those who want a partnership with

us, rather than those who want to go off by themselves angry,
hurt and humiliated.
;zl
....
One thing you need to have your best Russia people dealing with:
if it comes to a troop option, what the hell are we going to do
with Russia if it leads to the collapse of our relationship.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
My view on this is,!
The President:
are you? .ke7
I agree with that.
How about Ireland?
Where
The President:
Do you think the IRA has decided they are never
going to decommission? ~
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
SECI<ET
3ECRE'f
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

I
The poll shows more people are in favor of the
Good Friday agreement than at the time of the referendum.
People just want this damn thing to happen.
Je1
'--,::_-,-;::;--;-,--_ _ _....11
The President:
...+GY
They're tired of screwing with it, aren't they?
Anyway, we will keep on it.

I
think the next two wee s lS pretty crucial and I am just
thinking about what big thing we can do.
I am going to
Macedonia and Romania for a few days next week to visit our
troops and also to address the Romanians. When I come back,
will do a couple of days on the Irish thing.
JG1
The President:
Great.
I go to Germany next week.
Germany is
the one country where we have people flying and doing
humanitarian operations and there are refugees, and Schroeder
has the EU Presidency. My guys asked me not to go down to
Aviano because it,would be too disruptive, so I'll honor that.
J,Z)
Yes, I think Germany is just the right
place to go next week.
If you give a message of public support,
it will be very important.
J21
The President:
Yes,
He's been good to stay with us.
There's a
big article in the paper today, "Germans Seek to Separate Serb
Leader From support." It's in The New York Times.
I can't
tell, but it looks like they're trying to set him up for war
crimes.
I want to talk to Gerhard about it.
I'll have somebody
fax that to you.
k&t
Okay.
Just before we go.
our people should think about. I
Three things
1
gCRET
SECRE'f'
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President:
I agree.
I will get on all of them and talk to ..
you.
If you want to talk over the weekend, I'm available.
(U)
Thanks for the weekend.
The President:
Okay.
Goodbye.
(U)
Goodbye.
(U)
End of Conversation
SECRET
(U)
3ECRE'f
THE WH ITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:
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Telcon with Biitish Prime Minister Blair

(U)
~
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PARTICIPANTS:
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The President
""~
Notetakers: Doug Bayler, Bonnie Glick,

Roger Merletti, James Smith and K. C. Brown
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
May 4, 1999, 1:29 - 1:48 p.m. EDT

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The President:
Hello, Tony.

The President:
(U)
Hi, Bill.
How did you do on your trip?
(U)
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are pretty difficult there, because the refugees keep coming in. ~c:l________
But no, it was good. And the thing with the Romanian parliament
went well. It was good. We have also got good contacts with
the Kosovar people now. I met some leading people there, and
they've got quite a formidable network there, so we tapped into
all that.- How are you doing? How are you getting on? -\-&r
The President: Fine. I met yesterday with Chernomyrdin for a

long time, theu he met for an even longer time with Al Gore last
night, and Sandy, and then they met again this morning. I think
that Chernomyrdin's involvement is a chance to move Belgrade
toward our position, but we need to get Moscow moving in that
direction. I
I
/ I explained
to him what was necessary for this to be a success.
I told him we need a timetable on
withdrawal, as well as a commitment to an international security
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I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
force.
We sald he has to
commit to get all his forces out, then we can talk about a
presence symbo}ic of Serbian sovereignty. )21
We had a long talk about the rationale for an international

security force with NATO at its core and the rapid deployment
capability, to keep the Serbs and Albanians from clashing. I do
think he understands that if we are not in there, the peaceful
Albanians won't go back and the guerrillas will, and we'll all
be back where we are in six to eight months. I think he
understands. I
I
The only other thing is, the G8 political directors yesterday
was pretty good, except they talked about an international
authorized by the UN.
u
e1ne 1S trY1ng to have it redrafted to avoid
any 1mp 1cation that we're undermining the common requirements
of NATO. That is kind of where the diplomacy is. Sandy and the
rest of the Foreign Policy Team will review this 30-day
strategic campaign plan -- and I got your message the other day
-- and we'll share it with you. And we're making the
arrangements for the secure video teleconferencing between our
teams. So, we're kind of rocking along here. But I'm concerned
with Milosevi9's peace initiative and his release of the POWs
and the collateral damage, which is getting publicity. I'm
worried about Allied unity. I feel good about continuing this
for months, if necessary, but we've got to keep everybody else
in harness. Milosevic is in more trouble than we think, or he
wouldn't be going to all this trouble to stop the bombing.
~
The President:
SECRET
Yes.
+SJ
What do you think? -\-&t
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
3ECRE'l'
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

I agree entirely.
First, the military
campaign is going a bit better, and I think it's beginning to do
real damage.
Taking out the power stations and blacking out
Belgrade .real19 made a difference.
The President:
They were too wimpy on the NATO thing.
+Bt
You've just got to be careful.J
I I thlnk It's necessary to have constantly -~a~n~d"I~am~-tr=r~y7l~n~g~t~o get it sorted at this end -- people who go up
and talk to those refugees -- everyone has a horror story to
tell.
The most horrible things have been going on in there.
I
don't know whether public opinion in other countries is
different -- ours is pretty solid -- but most people, if they
think the campaign is beginning to work, will hold with it.
k5i
The President:- Also, there is going back, and there is going

back.
If they don't think it's strong and reliable and gives
them autonomy, even if you and I were there, we would have a
problem with the military elements.
~
I agree. But, Bill, what is your frank
assessment about how much damage we are prepared to do in the
next month to two months? Ir--~--------~~~--------------------)~
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
SEC'tl::E'f
;-
SECRE'f
The President:
I agree with that.
J2f
The President:
I think we should stick where we are.
The
Europeans feel strongly about it.
I don't feel strongly, I
could go either way, but I have been publicly strong about
leaving it in the country, because I don't want to be accused of
having a campaign for a greater Albania and disrupt the frontline states.
I think we ought to hang in there. The rest of
the EU have been pretty adamant against independence and we
ought to hang in there with them on that. ~
True. \
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
First of all, I strongly agree with that, and we
hammered Chernomyrdin on that. Let me tell you how I look at
this; I think it might also be helpful on the presentational
aspect in Europe.
I rarely talk about Kosovo now that I don't
talk about Bosnia.
It took us almost four years to get that
together and get Dayton. We defeated ethnic cleansing, but we
did not reverse it, because so many refugees were not going
home. The Kosovars have to be able to go home. We not only
have to defeat. it, we have to reverse it. When I remind people
of our work in Bosnia, I think it reinforces it.
I've got a
full-time person now doing nothing but Kosovo public affairs and
getting these stories out. What I think we need to look at is,
either we should have some more of those people -- should we put
more people on it? It's delicate; it's in other countries where
this problem exits.
I don't want to mess on people's turf.
Maybe talk to D'Alema and others about it.
It would help if
there were more of these people in the Italian press and other
3Ee~ET
SECRET
countries that are getting a lot of pressure, in the Spanish and

Portuguese press and others.
k81
Prime Minister-Blair:
Is your thinking that public opinion is
going soft in those countries? ~
The President:
I think it's softer in those than ours and I
don't know if they have a strategy for dealing with it.
lng
campaign, one thing I hope will happen, now

we have hit and
taken out most of the bridges, I think we may be able to focus
more on power systems. And, looking at all hours at more
military targets, that will reduce further horror stories about
collateral damage, like the bus that got hit on the bridge.
That is, we can do more, more freely and with fewer civilian
problems.
f.-81
One thing I said here that sends a good message, that shows our
resolve:
I just comment on the weather, that the weather is
better in June than in May and July is better than June. All
you've got to do is say that. Psychologically, it's a very good
thing to say, and I've said it a couple of times.
(S)
One or two other things -- we're going to open another camp in
Albania, like you are in Macedonia.
If it appears we've been
too reluctant here and we haven't done enough there, this thing
could spin out of control on us and collapse our timetable. We
don't want opponents to be able to say we didn't do enough
there, so we've got to bring them here. We just have to work on
it.
I leave this afternoon for Belgium and Germany, so I'll
check with you when I get back, or maybe while I'm there.
I'll
see Dehaene and Schroeder. )Z!
Prime Minister Blair: Yes, the Macedonian situation with the
refugees is ve~y worrying. We're trying to get unblocked some
European money.
I talked to Michel Camdessus about the IMF
position on Macedonia.
I'm trying to get Macedonia to agree to
a big transit camp to drain off the problem, and we're also
taking some more ourselves. But I think we really have to watch
Macedonia. ,~
The President:
I do, too.
I'm worried about the politics of
Macedonia. The government could collapse and consensus could
SECRE'P
3ECRET
disappear. The countr~ is so small and so poor.

could chan e that. ~)
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
Prime Minister-Blair:
The president:
Good for you.

this. /
These numbers
We've got to just manage them through
"J
Kosovo 1S about
that is, it's
it's not unimaginably large. ,-----.
L..,t;:-h=e--:::s"'l-;:z;-::e""-;o""t"-"'t't::h-:::e"-;:c::-::o~u;-;n"'t"..y:-;--::::o-':f""""yr.:o'"'r::"1k""'s"'h""l::-r=e--::"l-=nc-rE""n:-:g=-rra
"'n::ld,
not small, -but it's not vast:
The President:
I agree, there is a chance of that.
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President: That's bullshit, and we know it. We want,
obviously if we could, to get out where Russia plays a bigger
role and a pos1tive role. That will reinforce the position of
the progressives within Russia and s-tabilize the situation and
have a good lead into the 2000 elections. I also think it will
help us keep the Alliance together.

If we can achieve our objectives of having
defeated and reversed ethnic cleansing and kept the Alliance
together -- with the ties between Russia and the West stronger,
not weaker. That might be too much to hope for.
(~
SECRET
:3EGRET

That would be a full hand.
great thing to achieve. I
It would be a
----'I That's where the people are on tnlS. ,)$)
L -_ _ _ _ _ _
The President:
I agree.
xei
Prime Minister Blair: Hillary is going to the camps, is she?

..(-87-
The President:
Yes.
.J.G-'J
Prime Minister Blair: Her presence and the pictures that will
come out of that -- all the time, we've got to repersuade
people, remind them, really. You know the public attention
span. We had a terrible nail bomb thing going off in London
ut for four ays,
Kosovo ceased to be in people's minds. We have to persuade them
about it. Littleton happened and obviously the whole of America
s tar t s to ref 0 cus .
.4-Gt"
=--:::------:---------.1
~.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
rl
The President: We didn't want Jesse to be able to bring out

those soldiers, because people would feel we had to do a good
turn.
I mean, we got three guys going home, but a million can't
go home. -f-T
It's a constant, constant business. Her
going to the camps will make a big difference. When you go and
talk to them, then you realize what you have to do.
~
The President:
Alright, my friend.

you soon.
(U)
The President:
(U)
Have a good time in Germany.
Goodbye.
(U)
-- End of Conversation.
SECRB'P
Speak to
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON'

SUBJECT:
Telcen with British Prime Minister Blair

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Joel Schrader, Jenny McGee,
Miles Murphy and Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
May 8, 1999, 3:26 - 3:46 p.m. EDT

Air Force One
Tony, can you hear me?

(U)
The President:
Yes.

The President:
(U)
Yes, you're on Air Force One are you?
This was a "great" day wasn't it?

I
am afraid these things happen.
That's what I said too.
...(-e}
J.Q-'r

I t is bad, but we have just got to steady
our nerves on it, really. ..f.Et
The President:
Yes, that's what I did.
I just went out and
made a statement saying that we hit several important command
and contreltargets, and that the damage to the' Chinese Embassy
and the death~ and injuries were completely inadvertent.
I
extended deep regrets to the people and the leaders of China but
said it is important to remember why the strikes were necessary
and how to put an end to them. -k8r
They asked about the Chinese and Russian r.eactions and whether
it could derail the diplomatic efforts we're making toward a
peace deal.
I said I hoped not because that was the quickest
way to get it over with and I restated the conditions and
pointed out that we'd done over 10,000 sorties and because TV is
8ECRE'f
Reason:
1. 5 Ca, b, dL ' .
.
'., ~~_____~.
Declassify On'; 5/~'9'-~""'~'~-.',
:\ :',
:~~T~~LIB:\~Y PHOTOCO,~Y_J.
{._?.--.::.;~_:.. __ ,-...:"_,-~-,':':"r-,:
._"' ___ ' __ .~-'-./'.:"
SECRET
in Belgrade, they could cite every time there's unintended

consequences, but our pilots have literally risked their lives
to avoid hitting innocent civilians in Serbia -- shot at from
rooftops and in the middle of civilian areas, they have not
responded.
They have done everything they could to dodge the
weapons and go on. We have to remember what caused these
strikes and what could end them, but our conditions have to be
met. No one would like to stop them more than me. Jei
~

That is absolutely right.
The TV cameras
are not in Kosovo but if they were, they would be seeing people
killed every day by Serbs, by Milosevic.
~
The President: Yes.
If we had one TV picture of the 15 men
being roped together and burned alive, they would be demanding
that we bomb the hell out of them, people would be wondering why
we haven't leveled the place, but our people need to be telling
that to the media all the time. ~
Prime Minister Blair: What I'did today was to get the NATO
conference to go through all the atrocities in the last two weeks in Kosovo. We did a press conference on the same theme.
I understand when something like this happens, people get very
nervous about it, but day after day after day, things are
happening without any cameras and no one reports a bit of it.
Milosevic can take the cameras to wherever he likes and point to
these things.
But in Kosovo this is a daily happening, as a
result of deliberate policy, not as an accident. J.e1"
The President:
I am with you.
I just wanted to check in to
make sure we're on the same page. -0?r
ri ht thing.
No doubt, Bill.
I'm sure you've said the
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
I am with you.
SECRET
,
"
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
SECRET
! E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)!
The President:
That is right.
They asked, 'What about the
Russians and Chinese saying this was barbaric?#
I said it was
not barbaric but a tragedy.
We ought to take that word and turn
it on them. ~
You are absolutely right.
! E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)!
The President:
Let me ask a couple of questions.
In Germany, I
did what you suggested.
I did an hour interview with the press
people from Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Macedonia and
Albania. Did it get press coverage? ~
AbsDlutely, it got a lot of coverage.
-t-etThe President:
I think we all need to do more of that, reaching
into other countries.
One other thing, when I was there, I did
a lot of spade work with our people working on humanitarian
stuff about Macedonia, with the view as quickly as possible of
turning Maedonia into a way-station and you know telling them we
would move all of the refugees through there.
We would need to
get Turkey to~gree to take about 100,000, get safe passage for
them to Turkey.
I believe we have enough money to do this.
If
my supplemental passes the Senate this coming week, and I think
it will, what we would like to do is go to Turkey, with whatever
help we get from Europe, and build these camps.
We could build
camps for 20,000 which are quite comfortable with public space,
schools. They are tents, but nice tents. Also, if worse comes
to worse, they can be winterized with wooden floors and heaters.
They would be quite adequate.
Obviously, it would be better to
get them to Turkey anyway because the climate is better. )1
SECRE'l.'
f.
SECRE'f
Then we could build a couple of camps in Macedonia; it would be

easier to secure
... a throughway if we could get them direct cash
to the government in a hurry -- which you could do quicker than
me through the EU -- then tell them we want to make Macedonia a
throughway, not permanent stops for refugees. We will be able
to get the numbers manageable and stabilize this thing in the
next few weeks.
If they know where we were going, they'd do a
lot better to hold and fend off domestic opponents. ~
I totally agree. That is an excellent
idea and I will do everything to facilitate it.
I spoke to
Santer about getting European money released.
The critical
priority is to get money as quickly as possible that will buy
their goodwill for forward transit to Turkey. We need to talk
to Greece as well, but that is an excellent idea and eXactly
what we need to be doing. ~
The President:
When' does Prodi take over? ...l8f

It's not quite clear, not for a couple of
months.
I should think we need to get santer to work on that.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
necessary, we
from the EU.
Santer in the next
The President:
too.
If
money ourselves and then get it back

need money quickly.
I will speak to
of days. ~
If I get my money this week; I will ship some

If I get the money there, we'll have the
goodwill to facilitate all of this.
I totally agree this is the
right thing to do if Turkey is willing to do it. ~
The President: We can put these camps up in a hurry for 20,000
people for about $20 million by the time you clear the land,
work sewage, water and all that. That is $1,000 a person,
that's not aIr that much. ..(..&1Prime Minister Blair: When you consider weapons and everything,
it is a pretty sensible investment. ~
The President:
I will work on this and get your guys in touch
with our guys.
We have to get money to Macedonia and Turkey to
take 100,000, build transit camps in Macedonia that are
physically separate and secure a commitment to build camps in
Turkey and then get safe passage. We also need to get money to
SECRE'f
8ECRET
Albania.
They've taken a lot in homes now, but we need better

(.-1-"
Prime Minister Blair: Right. We need to watch in Albania,

particularly because a lot of refugees are living with families
and are not getting any support. /
L......,,...,,_:::;-_ _ _ _---;-~;----...JI
I f necessary we can CiO 1 t ourse.L ves

with Germany and France and get it back from the EU. ~
The President:
Does -it? .~
The EU Parliament doesn't have to vote on it.
The President: What if you got a letter from every EU member to

Santer saying release it tomorrow? Would it help? J81
Prime Minister Blair: Yes, it would help. In the end, we
should probably just give them the money ourselves and then get
it back from the EU.
LM
The President: Do we need to call anyone else about this
incident with China to buck them up? ~
I was going to speak to D'Alema anyway.
(S)
The President:
Okay, I will call Jacques.
US)
Prime Minister Blair: I still think that in the end, the public
understands t~at in war these things happen. We have this
operation in NATO and SHAPE workin better now.
e medla is just bored with picttires of refugees. We

need actual pictures of what is happening in KoSovo. ~~~~~~_~_~~~
The President: Okay, I will work on that.
great ideas but I'll work on it. ~
3ECREI
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
I don't have any
ECRE'f
Prime Minister Blair: There are ways we could do it. We are

looking at, but
I think people, all the time, need to be
J>
reminded of the basic principles. When I went to Macedonia and
saw those people, any doubt immediately leaves you. What has
happened to these people is just dreadful.
We need to make all_
the right diplomatic moves, but just carryon. ~
The President:
I'm with you. Where are we on Ireland? kG1
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
Prlme Mlnls er B alr:
We got a little bit of a breakthrough
last week, because Sein Fein came up with far more positive
language. .1
1 I have a totally
different proposition which is based on words rather than
product and now I have to say to them you may not get product,
but you may get better words.
~
Sinn Fein may say, ~you've got better words, we want an answer
tomorrow."
For six months, we've been trying to get better
words. You can't rush. We actually had a good series of
meetings at Downin on Thursda and there is some possibilty
there.
But we're not quite

~y~e~t~a~tZ-~a~n~a~b~s~~~u~t~e~~c~r~i't~l~c~a~~~~~--~~e~n~it is at a critical
moment, if you are willing to do so, to help.
It may take in
the end, a high profile intervention in this.
j.ZJ I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
Yes.
I will do whatever you want me to do.

I know Bill. You've been fantastic on
this.
I will try to bring this to a boil next week and will
keep in touch.
(eJ
SECREt
.(.e)
13gCRE'J:'
The President:
I'll keep working on all of this and if I need
to call you again I will.
yn
Prime Minister"'Blair:
The President:
Okay Bill.
Thank you.
(U)
(U)
SECRE'f
SECRE'F
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers:
Jenny McGee, Joel Schrader,
Miles Murphy, Sean Tarver, Roger Merletti,
James Smith and Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
May 27, 1999, 10;10 - 10:22 a.m. EDT

The President:
Hi, Bill.
I am fine.

The President:
So.
How are you?
(U)
(U)
What's happening?
(U)
How's the indictment going down over there?
I
The President:
I agree with that.
JQ1

I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
So, anyway, I sent

you a note setting out my thoughts.
I don't know whether it's
reached you yet, I just finished it this morning, but I think
the situation is, we are doing a lot of damage, but I think
2
we're right to be stepping up the pressure.
We've got to be.
%
The President:
This planning process has got to proceed,
because we only have a few days before deciding what else to do
but I think 45,000 troops for KFOR is quite good. The more
people we have deployed in the area, the more quickly we can
move.
I agree entirely with you; we obviously can't afford to
lose and have to keep doing everything necessary to make him
think that we're ready to intervene and no matter what we can't
afford ,to lose. But the combination of the impact of last
week's strikes and the fact that the NAC has voted to let NATO
increase the number of targets that will be hit and the nature
of them and the buildup will give us maximum pressure.
I agree
with you, I don't care what happens to him, whether he stays
there or goes someplace as you've said, like Belarus, it's all
right with me if we get our objectives met. ~
Yes.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
I agree with that.
Prime Minister Blair: Because you save lives by doing that.

I
think we are in just about the right frame and it probably
hasn't reached you yet, but I have set out in a note what I
think you can do if we have to go a step further -- how you
would explain that and how you would take people with you. You
can set it in
er vision for the Balkans and how it's good
for people.
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President:
That may be.
wouldn't do that.
E.O.13526 section l.4(d)

The President:
I think he would.
J&r
He has been very tough on this so far. ~
Prime Minister Blair: Yes, he has and I think they will come
along with us.
The problem is, until you see a real plan,
3ECRE'f
SECRET
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

you're a bit in the dark on this.
So, I think if we get a
clear military consensus, I think people would go with that.
yr
The President:
The military consensus is 175,000 to 200,000
troops, at least that's what our people say, so we could
probably do it with less. But one thing we've found out is the
more we send in, the fewer will die. ~
Absolutely.
i81
The Fresident:
So the more unattractive we make it, the safer
it is for everyone. ~
The President:
That is a big problem.
They're reeling around.
I think we need to let this

thing percolate for a day or two and see what the reaction in
Serbia is.
There's some chance it will be helpful, and there is
a chance that it will be harmful; I would be surprised if it had
no impact.
So I think we'll see something fairly soon.
~
The President:
I agree with that.
J21
SECRE'f
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
.3ECRE'f
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President: Yes, I agree with that. Hillary and I are
taking a couple of days off, and I am mulling that over right
now. My gut feeling is that I have to give something sooner
rather that later. Unless it cracks in two or three days, it's'
better to say something very strong, that we have no intention
of losing this. Now the good news about the indictment, Tony,
is that is makes it less forgiveable for us to lose it. No one
can say, 'Oh well, they're just nationalists." I think it is
interesting that apparently the whole indictment is premised on
Kosovo and shows a systematic government policy. I thought in
the beginn:i..ng that if she (Louise Arbour) did do this, some
might be based on his role in the Bosnia slaughters. But
apparently it's all based on Kosovo. It's quite interesting.
And apparently -- I haven't seen it, but apparently it says that
it's more than chain of command, it's specific personal things
he ordered, not that he was just the head of the apparatus.
This will be quite helpful in makin that case. I a ree with
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
away and
lS ma lng lt lmpossible for everyone

see people are not going to walk away.
Prime Minister Blair: I th~k that is right.

haven't got this yet -- ()n
The President:
second. ..(-B-1
I just got it.
I just read it.
walk
V1
As I say, you
Just this
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President: Good. Well, I will be back in a few days and

get back with you on that, and we'll keep our fingers crossed.
I think the NAC did the right thing by approving a new range of
targets. JZ1'
SECRET
PECRE!
Yes, I think it has been a good few days.
%
The President:
Alright, I will talk to you soon.
Alright, Bill, all the best.

:;,gCRE'f
(U)
(U)
SECRE'f
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers:
Doug Bayley, George Chastain,
Frank Jarosinski, Miles Murphy, Don Cheramie
and Lawrence Butler
June 3, 1999, 6:42 - 6:57 p.m. EDT
Oval Office
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Hi, Tony.
(U)
Let's hope it sticks.
The President:
Yes, I hope it will.
best answer.
(U)
(U)
I think you and I gave the
Prime Minister Blair: Here (Cologne) it's like trying to stamp

down a bush fire.
(U)
The President:
There are a lot of unanswered questions. Maybe
72 hours from now we can celebrate, but we will all look stupid
if it turns into a red herring by Milosevic. My response today
was 'welcome, but cautious." ).81'"
Prime Minister Blair: As I said tonight, of course, the fact
that we got an agreement was great news,but it has to be done,
it has to be implemented and some trick questions have to be
answered in the right way.
I E.O. 13526, section tA(b)(d)1
The President:
I agree.
Academy speech. +eI
I turned up the heat at my Air Force
SECRE'f
Reason:
1.5 (a;b, d ) .
.
.~~~ __'_-~'?-."'
Declassify on:! 61!::~r "'J':-,.;.r~ - - - ,
Ii
!".
I~:r?N LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY
1-
~:'..'-::.::~.,...::~!~~_:....;,. .-:-c~--..,:--~~L. ~" ,:'"c.;-;>-~, __~./"';(-.;
3EeRE~

you've been dotn .
Absolutely, I think its critical what
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President: We have a new problem, but we should be careful
on this line.
Sometime in the next 72 hours I need to talk to
you about the planning process. Do you think over the next 72
hours we can talk about this? Do you think we could talk secure
over the weekend? ~
Sure.
(U)
The President:
Just tell them they can dance around a Maypole - you'll hold it up for them while they dance. ~
should only rejoice when
We
The President: He's been a champ. Chernomyrdin has been good

too and for the Russians this is good too.
They have come out
well. ..(-et"
Prime Minister Blair: Yes, I think it is a good thing for
Russia.
They came out extremely well. ~
The President:
It makes them look like a world leader. They
don't want to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. This
should help them with their economic stabilization.

He is getting a lot of
criticism at home.

I mostly agree with that. Absolutely
right, people tonight are talking far more positively about them
and asking what we can do to help the Russians in economic
terms.
It really changes the atmosphere there, doesn't it? ~
The President: Yes, it certainly does. The other thing that
they and the Serbs should think about is that this saves us a
hell of a lot of money that can be used on development, the
money we would save from putting in a ground force. Also, the
main thing we need to do is look like we remain determined.
~
SECRET
3ECRE'f
The President: Apparently, they are meeting on Saturday. He

wanted to wait-until Sunday probably to find out how much wiggle
factor, wiggle room he had. They pushed for Sunday and we
pushed him back to Saturday. ,.ke)
Prime Minister Blair: There is no reason they can't meet
tomorrow from NATO's point of view.
~
The President: Saturday is the earliest day we can get Wes to
meet them.
(i)
Serbs to meet.
(-e1
The President:
Yes.
This is the quickest we could get the
Un
I don't like that very much.
+et
The President: We may know Sunday or Monday where we are.

Maybe you and I could talk on Sunday. I need to talk to you
~
about the other option. There is good news and bad news.
Okay, Bill.
The President:
Keep your fingers crossed.
Okay.
Right.
(U)
(U)
End of Conversation
SECRET
(U)
8ECRE'f
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Pr.ime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Bonnie Glick, Michael Manning,
Miles Murphy and Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
June 6, 1999, 12:32 - 12:42 p.m. EDT

Hi, Tony.

tied down.
(V)
How are you?
(U)
I'm anxious until this thing is properly
The President:
This is exactly what I was afraid of. A bombing
pause and then they would try to steal the peace now that we
have won the war. The position is that the Russians and Chinese
won't let a Security Council Resolution go through until there
is a bombing pause, but we won't pause unless there is clear
evidence of withdrawal.
Funny, but I understand the Serb
position; they don't want a vacuum so when their withdrawal
starts, they want us to come in. Yesterday, our guys said ~you
begin withdrawal, we will pause and try for one day to get a
Security Council Resolution.
If the Chinese and Russians won't,
we'll get a NATO accord and move in immediately." .k81
That was our position yesterday. Today, the Serbs came back and
said they couldn't live with this.
They want a Security Council
Resolution that links the authority to deploy and the authority
to run the country under the UN; if there is a delay, we'll
return to our pre-conflict force levels before we invaded until
the Security Council works it out. That's a nightmare and we
can't let that happen.
They're trying to steal the peace after
we won the conflict.
I know you agree with that.
I am going to
3ECRE':P
Reason:
1.S(a,b,d)
Declassify On:
6();'{9!!.fl~:-:----~----- -------~-,<, .
i~b~NLI~RARY PHOTOCOPY '-'s~~ ."
SECRET
call D'Alema.
I don't know what to do except tell our guys to
hang tough. Ahtisaari delayed his China trip.
I)t)
The President:
I just talked to Ahtisaari.
What did he say?
J31
yi)
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I
Prime Minister Blair: !
I
The President:
I'm not against that.
+&r
Prime Minister Blair: I said I wanted to think about

talk to ou.
If we ask him he would 0 do that toni
The President:
Good for him.
and
I
The President:
Yes.
Prime Minister Blair: What do we lose? My guy down there,

Michael Jackson, is a good bloke, but he is a general not a
negotiator. J$t
The President:
I think Ahtisaari made a good impression on
Milosevic.
I haven't talked to Sandy, Madeleine or anyone about
him going down. But I worry about this thing dragging on.
I'm
not worried about sending a signal; we need to get this going
while the iron is hot. 1St
that.
M
The President:
SECREr
Absolutely, I'm in total agreement on
You talk to your guys.
I'll talk to mine.
)Sf
SECRET
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)l

I told Martti I'd get back to him in an
hour.
If we want to have a chat to our folks and have them
chat..
The President:
I agree.
nervous as hell all da .
from us.
I've been waiting for this.

I've been
We can't let him take the eace away
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

I agree 100 percent.
The President: We owe it to these people (the Kosovars), and

don't forget that they (the Serbs) are asking us to eat a hell
of a lot of shit. Now that they want us to sweep out Thaqi and
the KLA and give this Authority five years to work, our crowd is
going to be at some physical risk too. We have to think down
the road here.
Look at Bosnia four years later. We're taking
on a lot of water here.
If we can spring some money from the
IMF and the World Bank ... but there are all kinds of hurdles
with that.
Well, you and I are in the same place. We can't let
our folks get weak on this.
If the Europeans stay hitched on
this, we should be okay in a day or two.
I might give Chretien
a call too.
He has a lot of friends over there in Europe.
I
know he agrees with us. We may have to do some hand holding on
this.
1.21
I agree.
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
I'll tell you what I'll do.
I'll call Sandy now
and talk to our guys and then I'll try to call D'Alema, and
decide who else I should call.
If there is any other problem,
I'll be available.
It's sunny here.
I may go out, but I'll
have phones with me. ~
SECREg:}
SECRE~

I have some people I really trust out
there at the negotiations. Okay, our people will be in touch .
.J.&tThe President:
If this thing is going to be drug out for
another 72 hours or so, we may also need a story about how our
planning is continuing. We have to put a squeeze on and we
can't let them get the peace. Okay, we have a vigorous
agreement going here, so we don't need to waste time.
I'll talk
to Sandy and we'll be in touch. Goodbye. ~
Goodbye.
(U)
End of Conversation
"'~""'--~~------.-
--- ----
- -
:~~",~N LIBRARY PHO:OCOPY
~ ........ !
SECRET
THE WHITE HOUSE
WAS H 11\1 (:iTO 1\1

E.O.13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Tony C~mpanella, Michael
Manning, Robin Rickard, Roger Merletti
and Lawrence Butler
June 7, 1999, 9:55 - 10:06 a.m. EDT
Oval Office
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:

what I know? . (U)
The President:
Yep.
Hi Bill.
Now do you want me to tell you
(U)
The talks broke off.
Do you see
what I mean?
k81
The President:
Yes.
The President:
Yes.
I completely agree with everything you've
said.
The key here is where the Russians are on this.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
just have to be tough as hell with them.

accord with where you are. )<r,(
We
I am completely in
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

SECl\E:T
8ECRE'P
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
Yep. We are in the same place Tony, and we've
got to tough it out and get a good UN draft. Ma be I am
sensitive, but let me say something.
I E.O. 13526, section l.4(d) I
OK?
)-51
OK Bill. /
I
The President:
with you.
?l
I am going to call Yeltsin as soon as I hang up
The President:
I agree to that.
hold to it? ~
morning.
aECRET
Yes.
Do you think the Allies will
I spoke with Schroeder this
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President: Alright. Let's hang ip there.
develops tonight I might call you.
kS)
If anything
Prime Minister Blair: I might trouble you again if I get a firm

readout on the Russians. If there is something we need to talk
about then we can talk again.
(S)
The President:
Thank you.
OK.

Good-bye
(U)
The President:
(U)
Alright.
Goodbye.
All the best.
(U)
SEeRE,],
f'~"'"
-'~'---" v
.
. I'
'!~\,ti-"tQ~ LiBRARY PHOTOCOPyt
c"
"cc
\ :~~:~':~T':~::~>-l;-<~:'~~~"~:~:'-' ,)._.,:')c:. :._\;--/;,-,-~~'f[
Thank you.
SECRET
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Matt Sibley, Robert Ford,

George Chastain, Sean Tarver, Jim Smith,
Roger Merletti and Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
June 10, 1999, 9:09 - 9:27 a.m. EDT

Oval Office
The President:
Hey, I just called to say thanks, it's been a
good run.
Life's greatest curse is the answer to our prayers;
now we have to figure out how to get all those people back in,
without getting blown up by all those landmines.
I had Elie
Wiesel here -- do you know him?
(U)
Yes.
(U)
The President:
He's a Holocaust survivor, and an advisor.
I
sent him to some of the camps, and he said, ~boy, there is so
much anger there.
Every Kosovar believes he knows the Serb who
ousted him."
(U)
Yes, it's going to be tough, isn't it?
tell you what, it could be a lot worse.
(U)
The President:
Well, it's quite wonderful.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: At least now it will be a problem of

construction instead of destruction.
(U)
The President: We've just got to hold everybody together and
keep working on it.
(U)
SECRET
SECRET
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)\

~~~~~~~~~-'__-nvr________________________~[line drops, and
is reestablished.
The President:
Hey, Tony, I'm sorry.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: No, no, it's our fault.

person who dropped the line executed.
(U)
I'll have the
[Laughs]
The President:
We're trying to think through the
obvious questions, about how fast we can get people back in and
clear out the landmines, and we need to flush out Macedonia
first. -1-e:I
The President:
Yeah, we have to keep working on that.
The President:
I am, too.
There are not a lot of places he can
go, given his indictment by the war crimes tribunal. Maybe
Russia or Belarus would take him, or maybe he'd get a Pinochet
deal and leave him in Serbia. ~
/~--------~-------------------~==~~~~I
IE.O.13526, section 1.4(b)(d~
L -_ _ _ _ _.
The President:
Yeah, we can't do that.
We need to look at
basic humanitarian conditions, and make sure the lights are on
by winter,/

\L ______~============~/
SECRE'P
.~
SECRET

The President: We have to do that, too. Frankly, I don't know

what else I can do. I've been reading about it all through
this, because my daughter just happens to be doing a paper on
Adams. I don't know what the real deal is between him and the
IRA. It'phard to put pressure on him when you don't know
. what's going on. It's just bizarre.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
We've got to keep working on it, and I'll do whatever

you want me to do.
yr:).
Let me say this: we sent out our top people to NATO for Kosovo,
we need to do the same thing with getting the refugees back and
setting up a government. Whatever the formal structure, we have
to put our best people in to set up the mechanics and make this
thing work. There are literally thousands of detail questions
that we have to answer. ~
'----------~/
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)
The major concern I have about the

person on top is I want someone with confidence and energy to do
this thing. I want someone to go there and stay. --fG+Prime Minister Blair:
I
The President: The commander of the overall military is going
to be British, isn't h.e? I think he's good. I haven't met him,
but I've seen him on TV. -+er
2ECRET
L I_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
SECRET
The President: Anyway, this won't require our obsession like

the battle, but it will require our attention for the next 10
days.
(Z).
Cologne meeting? JRr
Right, well, Bill, you'll be over for the
The President:
Yeah, when we come to Cologne, we should have
major questions to answer as a body. We need to boost Yeltsin
and his pro-reform forces.
I wish we could resuscitate
Chernomyrdin, and I realize this may be more water than we can
carry.
J,.e1
I'd like to have him and Ahtisaari there to receive our thanks.
We may want to think about this.
They did a hell of a job for
us.
I think we also ought to think about some other things at
Cologne. We need to have good positions coming out of Cologne
for debt relief, and because of compound interest and falling
incomes, I think it will be a big deal there. We also need to
do more on the AIDS issue. According to our people, one percent
of the people in the world have AIDS.
~
In Africa the numbers are staggering, and
in a country like South Africa it's just massive.
(ei
The President: And you've got 60 million people more or less,
and 35 million in Africa, and the number is going to double in
the next four years. kef
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)!
The President:
Yeah, let's see where they are with the World
Bank. Russia collapsed politically and economically after .1995.
It also deteriorated with Yeltsin's health problems even though
he was reelected in 1996. )Qt
[Line drops and is reestablished.]
The President:
Hi, Tony.
Solana is on TV.
(U)
You need to go to the press now.
Prime Minister Blair: Right, I'm sorry about that.

Let's speak before Cologne.
(U)
The President:
Yeah we need to talk.
(U)
Okay, yes.
~ECRE'P
Right, let's talk again before Cologne.
(U)
The President:
Okay.
Goodbye.
(U)
Goodbye.
(U)
End of Conversation
aEGRE'f
CON'FIlJEM'fIAL
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers:
Jenny McGee, George Chastain,
Robert Ford, Joel Ehrendreich, Jim Smith,
Roger Merletti
June 21, 1999, 2:26 - 2:33 p.m. EDT
Ljubljana, Slovenia
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:

The President:
your soldiers.
Hello, Bill.
(U)
Hey, Tony, I called to tell you I'm sorry about

(U)
Prime Minister Blair: Thanks very much.

It's very kind of you
to call. We're still trying to find out the details.
(U)
The President:
Tony?
(U)
[Call dropped and reestablished.]

The President:
You're still trying to get the news?
seen is what's on CNN.
(U)
All I've
Prime Minister Blair: We don't know how much more than that at
the moment.
It appears one of them was a sergeant, and they
were trying to demine a school, and a mine went off.
I'm afraid
we're going to see quite a bit of this before it's all through.
(U)
COHFIDEN'fIAL
Classified by:
Glyn T. Davies
Reason:
1.5 (d)
Declassify on:;
J.
COl,PIDEfi"'fIAL
The President:
Yes.
They said it might have been more like a
booby trap than a traditional mine.
It's difficult to tell
whether they're deactivated.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: And it was in a school, I think. Well,
they're pretty sick, actually. As more comes out about these
Serb soldiers, it really is unbelievable.
(U)
~~~~~~~~~~~
The President:
There was a show
are at America and me. Our guys
interviewed with yesterday seems
close to showing the truth about
They're going to have to come to
. Prime Minister Blair:
on CNN on how mad the Russians

told me this TV station I
to be the only one that came
what Milosevic was up to.
grips with it.
(U)
The President:
I think in the near term we have to check the
schedule by which our people are moving in. There was also a
special about the French troops trying to separate the Serbs and
the Kosovars. JR1
The President: Well, I won't keep you.

I feel like we had a
good G-8.
I just wanted you to know I'm sorry about your men.
(U)
That's kind of you, Bill.

I thought we
had a good G-8, too.
So you're off to Macedonia tomorrow?
(U)
The President:
Yeah, I'm going to a state dinner in Macedonia
[n.b., the President meant Slovenia] tonight, and Djukanovic,
I'll give you a readout in
the Montenegrin President, is here.
a couple of days. )ei
The President:
Okay, Bill.
Goodbye, Tony.
Goodbye.
(U)
CmtFIDEHTL".L
(U)
CONFIDBNTL"tL
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:

(U)
The President
PARTICIPANTS:
Notetakers: Bob Ford, Joel Ehrendreich,

Rob Williams, Jenny McGee, Roger Merletti
and James Smith
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
June 3D, 1999, 3:14 - 3:22 p.m. EDT

Chicago, Illinois

The President:
Hi, Bill.
(U)
How are you doing?
Pretty grim.
(U)
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
CONFIDEN'fIAL
Reason: 1.5(qJ
Declassify On:!
i.
~~.
5~~:C:::~:Haroco}l.
l
">-,
~.~-~~:~:_ "-/~- ~
__ "';!!-.:
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.-i
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CONFIDEN'flhL
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
do now? j...G-Y
What exactly do the unionists want Sinn Fein to
The President:
Yes.
L - - - -_ _ _ _
The President:
That way the IRA doesn't look like it's
surrendering to the unionists? ~
The President:
Yes.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

CONn DEN'!' IAL
COktFI DENT IAb
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
It looks like you could manage this marching
thing if you could solve the bigger problem.
~
The President: Which means i f they meet all the local people's
conditions, they could march. JRf
I
The President:
Are you going back to the meeting now?
Yes.
J,e1
The president:
Do you want me to call them in a couple of hours
-- Adams and Trimble? ~
I
The President:
Right now?
L-----------------~/
The President:
Why don't I monitor it from here?
IrE-.O-.1"C":3-52-6-,-se-c-ti-on-1,-4(-b-)(---'d)l
CONFI DEN''l'IAL
CGNF I DEN'fIAL

The President:
I will check in where I am in 20 minutes to see
if they're through. JBr
I
The President:
If they're in a meeting, I will wait until they
finish to call them. ~
The President:
They, the unionists?
The President:
J&r
Yes.
The President:
Okay, I'm on it.

The President:
Thanks, Bill.
Goodbye.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
(U)
(U)
(U)
CO~IFIDEN'fIAL
COHFIDEN'fIAL
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)
I
'I
ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, documeut uo. 67

MEMORANDUM~-F-TELEPHONE-C:ONVERSATI~O~N~--------------~
SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers:
Jarosinski
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
Sean Tarver and Frank
June 30, 1999, 9:25 - 9:38 p.m. CDT

Chicago, Illinois
Hi, Bill.
(U)
The President:
You are where you were last time we talked,
aren't you?
(U)
Yes.
"'===:;======~:;;""'=~--":"----'
The President:
I know.
take my call now? .Jrf?'r
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
It's just terrible.

Yes.
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
Make a counterproposal?
Will Trimble even
Yes.
I E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d)I
The President:
Yeah.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

CONFIDENTIAL
Classified by:
Glyn T. Davies
Reason: 1.5 (d)
Declassify on:}' '~t;' -~,~ .-~--- C<'\
,
(~,', '" ',' .INTON LI~RARY PHOTOCOPY']'

.
.;?-~,~;~~:... , ..."~.,.;;., ,~.:.>~". :.. i-;,,~/""'-?'~ . ~
CmJFI DEN'fIAL
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)\

The President:
Is that their counterproposal one?
The President:
What is Gerry Adams saying in response?
(~
The President:
You mean put that through Parliament?
The President:
What did he say?
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)\

The President: Do you think keeping them up all night will get
them weary and make them give in? ~
cmlFI DENT L'\L
CONFI DENT L",L
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President:
You mean let them get a little sleep . ...+8-
Yes . \
[
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
Is there anything I
can say to Gerry Adams? Anyth~ng
e
states can offer
them to help them politically to move closer to where Trimble
is? You know I actually have far more popularity within the
Catholic community than the Protestant community. Most of the
Protestants think I am a turncoat.
~
The President:
You offered him an act of Parliament, right?
.JR!I
Yes.
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

CONFIDE~lTIAL
cmIFIDEN'fIAL
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President:
So, they are not a judge of it?

The President:
____________________________~I .ye1
Do you think Trimble will take that?

The President:
~I
God, I think that is the best deal.

The President:
Yes.
But Gerry thinks that is like crying uncle.
The President: Especially if Great Britain can be the guarantor

of both sides.
If you have legal authority; they won't
understand that. ~
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President: Yes. So I should tell Adams that Trimble will
help him work through that? ~
COHFI DEN'fIPrL
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
Let me ask you this.
a halt until tomorrow morning?
(Z)
Are you going back to call

I have a little fiddling around to
do, but probably in the next quarter hour. ~
The President:
Do you believe I should call in the next half
hour or let them sleep first? ~
I would call them now.
The President:
Okay, I will start to call them. My national
security people are in if you need to call me in the middle of
the night.
I know what to say now. ~
I will try to call them now.
The President: You think I might be able to get them in the

next ten minutes?
yc)
Yes.
)X'r
The President:
Okay, I am getting ready to get on the plane, so
(U)
let me see what I can do.
The President:
Alright, Bill.
Okay, goodbye.
(U)
(U)
End of Conversation
CONFI DEN'!' lAL
CONFIDEN'l'IAL
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers:
Joel Schrader, Miles Murphy,
Matt Sibley, Amy Swarm and Roger Merletti
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
July 1, 1999, 7:26 - 7:58 a.m. EDT

The Residence
Hello Tony?
(U)
Sorry, it must be early morning for you.
(U)
The President:
It's fine.
(U)
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
CONFI DEH'l'IAL
Classified by:
Reason:
1.5(d
Declassify On:
Glyn T. Davies
G'" -- .
~ <.>"-~ ~.' "---~""
7/8
(",
:~~TON LI~RARY PHOTOCOPY' "~I
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'.
CONF! DEN'' IAL
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
I talked to Adams about that for a long time.
I
spent the better part of a year trying to convince him that
ought to be his position without success. And last night I do
believe, rightly or wrongly, his belief is that he made some
significant commitments esterday about what he is
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
Prime Minister Blair: L-__~I=E=.O=.=13=5=26=,=se=ct=io=n=1=.4=(b=)(=d)~I____~I

The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
CGNFIDEN'PIAb
Yes.
.,
~ '-.'~
CON'FIDEN''fIAL
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
Did they commit to follow Chastelain's
timetable? ..)-e}
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
CQNFI DEN'l' IA!7
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
Cotifr'I Il:l!:l<f'f IAL
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
that. JGt
There is no question -- I think Adams believes

The President: What about the argument they can all take the
government down later, and we will all support it. ~
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
CONFIDEH'fL'\L
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
c mr FI DEN'J'IAL
I EoO. 13526, section 1.4(d)

The President:
Yes.
The President:
My view is that is what you ought to work on.
Is there anything you can do, any stick or carrot, to shore
Trimble up? ~
The President:
I do believe they are trying to help on that; I
think Gerry was open to it. ~
Is that an argument
The President: Well let me ask you this.
for you to go back to a hard deadline?
(Yl"
'--------------/
CGNPI DENT IAL
I EoO. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
CONFIDgNTIAl,
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
It's crazy. The whole thing is just nuts, but I
think yourbest chance is to get, based on what you say, I do
think they will accelerate the timetable.

I have talked until I am blue in
the face.
The President:
For one thing, there has to be some
definitiveness to the commitment.
I didn't know they weren't
.{.et
more definite.
The President:
Yes.
tGr
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President: But the one thing that I am now persuaded on is,
after one year of trying to make a case,
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
CONFI DENT 1M
CONFIDEN'flt,L
The President:
!E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)!
I think that is what we need to work on, and

I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
!E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d)!
The President:
(U)
Okay.
Goodbye.
(U)
End of Conversation
CONFIDEN'PIAL
cmlFIDEHTIAL
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Robin Rickard, Joel Schrader,
Don Cheremie and James Smith
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
July 1, 1999, 7:25 - 7:34 p.m. EDT

Jack Kent Cooke Stadium
Hey, Tony.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: Hi, Bill.

finally getting somewhere. I
Hello.
Well.
CONFIDEWfIAL
Classified by:
Glyn T. Davies
Reason:
1.5 (dJ
Declassify On:' 7 / !~"~' _fic~i;.,:'------ ------.--~~~.
f<.~T6N LIBl0-RY PHOTOCOPY

'"';.~~--:--'.:.~:~:-::- ..--$'-....~..~ . .:.(.,:....>--_...
--""
-}--.-<,..,~,~"
. .,'~
I think we're
CONPIDEH'fIAL
The President:
Yes.
of October? ~
They say they can't do it before the end
Yes, they can't do it earlier.
The President:
It would be interesting to see if they would do
it earlier if they can get in earlier.
~
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
Yes, I can see that, actually.
The President:
I
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President:
I'm happy to. Do you want me to call tonight?
Do they know about the proposal? JZ}
CO~tFI DENTIAL
CONn lJ!!:N'f IAL
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President:
I'll call Trimble tonight.
Gerry tonight?
~.
~--------------~
The President:
Because Bertie's gone back to Dublin, right?
.-+er
Yes, he has.
Jim can check.
;e1
The President:
I will have Jim check to see if the Irish have
talked to Gerry.
If they have, I will call him.
In any event,
I'll talk to David. When I call him, what should I say? That I
hope he takes this deal? ~
Yes, that's right.
'--------------~
The President:
Yes. And you will make this agreement public
tomorrow? This proposal? ~
Yes.}
The President: At what point tomorrow will you publicly float

this? So I could make a public comment.
~
Prime Minister Blair: Our people will coordinate with
folks. Hang on just a second.
our
The President: Yes, I shouldn't talk to Gerry before the Irish.

That would be usurping. )J21'
cm1FIDE~f'l'IAL
"
CONFIDENTIAL

I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
Got it.
The President:
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
Get some sleep.
Prime Minister Blair: You, too. I'm sorry.

It was very
helpful when you talked to them yesterday.
je1
The President:
Okay.
Goodbye.
(U)
End of Conversation
CQI>IFI P8HTIAL
_CONFIDENTIAL
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASH INGTON

SUBJECT:
(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Miles Murphy, Robin Rickard,
Don Cheremie, Doug Bayley and James Smith
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
July 2, 1999, 6:39 - 6:48 p.m. EDT

Oval Office

The President:
Hi, Bill.
(U)
Well, congratulations.
(U)
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
~========~----------~
The President: Yes, but old Trimble was in a good frame of

He was
mind. I was stunned. I
I ~3~
ttc~"n ~4(d) I
pretty proud of himself when
a eDlm.
J,R:)
F?
Did you talk to him?
JQr
The President: Yeah, I talked to him an hour ago, 30 minutes

ago. He was really upbeat, saying it's bad and it'll get worse,
but it'll get better. He went through a laundry list of who was
with him, who was against him, who was on the fence. I told him
I would call them if he wanted. I told him what we always
agreed I'd tell him. I was very encouraged to see how upbeat he
was.
vJ
Prime Minister Blair: When I left a couple of hours ago, I was
I a bit down. /
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)l
]
CONFIDENTIAL
Reason: 1/5 (d,)
Declassify on:!
CONFIDEN'l'IltL
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President:
I think it is and I think he may be there now.
-+etPrime Minister Blair:
Do you mean that?/
The President: Absolutely.

I told him, give me a list; I will
call every damn one of them.
J.&r
I had no idea.
~--------------------------~/
The President:
i t . ...J!C(
He said Taylor was with him, but I'm glad to do
The President:
Adams was in a good humor, too.
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The president:
I'll keep doing it. Trimble said it will be a
real hard sell, but I think I could do it. He was really in a
very good place. That is all I know.
~
[The line dropped and was reestablished.]
The President:
Sorry.

airport.
(U)
The President:
My fault.
Are you in London?
CmlFIDg~ITL"<L
We got cut off.
(U)
I'm on my way back from the

(U)
Yes, I just landed.
(U)
CONFIDEN'fIAL
The President: Well, I don't know what else to say, but I think
this is great. You did great. We've just got to nurse them
now, to get them there. Gerry was happy
clam. He said he
had to make Trimble look good, one thing
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
I told him if he wanted me to call anybody,

would call.
j)21
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President:
I made a statement.
I said you had issued this
proposal as a way forward and I thought it was a very good
thing, it gave them a chance to shape their own destiny and
their own government and to get rid of guns and violence for
everybody.
The United States expects everybody to comply and we
support you strongly and expect everyone who benefits to fully
comply. J,..eI
And you said that on screen, did you?
JR5
The President:
Right.
k1
That will be good.
The President: We already got some feedback from Ireland.

was already beamed over there on CNN or something.
U?)
CONn j,)~NT H! L
It
CONPIDEN'fIAL
Prime Minister Bl . .
The President:
Yes, even the ones who are mad at me for being
too pro-Sinn Fein, my dumping allover them will give them a
little confidence. ~
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President: Yeas, I will see about that. You have your
people call me back with a list. Talk to Trimble; whoever he
wants me to call, I will call.
~
The President:
(U)
Get yourself some sleep, you've earned it.

The President:
Many, many thanks.
Thanks, I will.
Goodbye.
Goodbye.
(U)
CONFIDEN'fL".L
(U)
(U)
CONFIDENTIAL
5298
,.13
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASH INGTON

E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Ralph Sigler, Liz Rogers,
Michael Manning, Rob Williams, Joel
Ehrendreich and Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
July 12, 1999, 10:01 - 10:14 a.m. EDT

Oval Office

The President:
Hi, Bill, how are you?
Hi, Tony, I'm fine.
(U)
(U)
P~ime Minister Blair:

I keep seeing these great pictures over
here of you in the press from your trip.
You are doing some
great sweeping tours.
(U)
The President:
I've been going through the poorest parts of
America.
People have got to realize that not everyone here is
rich.
(U)
can say so.
(U)
It is really effective campaigning if I
The President:
I don't know exactly what kind of financing you
do to encourage British investment.
I've gotten quite a bit of
stearn behind the idea of offering the same incentives to "invest
in poor -- really poor -- neighborhoods that I've given them to
invest in developing economies overseas.
So it turns around the
argument that people gripe about giving incentives for overseas
but not giving them the same incentives to invest in our own
CONFI DEHT L1l,d;,
Classified by;
Glyn T. Davies
Reason:
1. 5 (d)
Declassify On:j 7 ;iJ~'9" ~",r",~__----"-"'"--~;"\
;t::~:~~":~RARY PHOTOCOPY ,I
>,
~~~-;-:~~~:- :..:..~ ~_>_ ~~ <. ' - . ......... _

__
:;_ -;':'"
:'~
_.
.f,-~-~,:.
COMFI DEN'fIAL
reservations.

here's where we are.
The President:
Interesting.
Yes, I agree.
It's getting a
Now, on the Irish issue
)<1
/ E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)/

CG~TF IDEN'l'IAL
CGHFIDEHTI}\L
The President:
What does the Good Friday Accord say on the
timing of prisoner releases?
(~

It says that it's in the hands of the
body thatd~als with prisoner releases and shbuld run up to
May 2000. But it also says that decommissioning should run to
May 2000 as well.
"""
,...;
-..
.:::=
'"'
'"
'IS
rrl
"l
.....
o~
The President:
Yes.
I got nowhere with Hume on SDLP after I talked

The President:
with you. So I don't know if I can nose around there again.
LQ1
The President: Adams is still holding out the position that

nobody else should be in the executive even if it is all their
fault. .JGt"
CONFI DEN':FIAL
COHPIDEN''l.'IAL
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d~
. The President:
Yes, I agree with that but I don't know what
that does for you on the other side. 1er
I don't know either for the minute.
The President:
Yes, well I'll look at what is ... I think the IRA
might give some kind of commitment that there would be a
statement after July 15. ~
CQWFIDg~ITL'lrL
I R.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I
COWFWENTIAL
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)\

The President:
tf)
Yes, alright, let me see what I can do.
Prime Minister Blair: Okay, Bill, I'll be around anytime.

think the next two days. are pretty crucial, really.
~)
The President:
Well, I'll see what I can do.

then.
(U)
. The President:
Thanks, Bill, I'll speak to you soon
Goodbye.
(U)
CONFIDEN'i'IAL
CQNFIDEfi'I'IAL
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON

E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Liz Rogers, Michael Manning,
Rob Williams, Joel Ehrendreich and Lawrence
Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
July 12, 1999, 1:56 - 2:01 p.m. EDT

Oval Office
Hello?
(U)
Hi, Bill, sorry to trouble you again.
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
Yes, McGuinness is here.
CONFIDEN'fIAL

Reason: 1.5 (d);,
Declassify On:
JR1
CQNFIDENTIAL
-IKO. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President: Won't the IRA say this is just changing the
sequencing again. Basically they have a matter of mistrust.
They still think they're going to get jacked around on the
executive on this, don't they? Jei
The President:
Let me ask you this. What about the legislation
itself? I hear the SDLP has problems with it.
~
The President:
But do you think the legislation problems would
go away if you had any statement from the IRA?
~
I think s
The President: Could you change the legislation to overcome

directives if you get the IRA statement? -H=T

L - I_
_
/
The President:
Let me call you back. When are you going to
bed? It must be getting pretty late there now.
(U)
It's only 7 o'clock now.
(U)
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

cmlFIDEHTIJ'IJ,
CQNFIDEN'T lAL
Tte President:
Let me see what I can do.
I'll call you back.
(U)

The President:
Okay, thanks, Bill.
Okay, goodbye.
(U)
GO~lFIDEH'fIAL
(U)
COHrI Dg~IT III L
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers:
Doug Bayley, Don Cheramie,
Robin Rickard, Bob Ford, James Smith and
Richard Norland
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
July 16, 1999, 10:09-10:33 a.m. EDT

Hello?
Prime Minister Blair;

The President;
(U)
Hi, Bill.
(U)
Well, today is not as bad as yesterday, is it?
J;if
think that is the right analysis.
(f)
The President:
I just had Barak here, and he said how much you
had done to help.
He admires you so much. We had a great talk.
(e)

The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

seeing Massimo D'Alema on Monday.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)D
.J.e1
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
CONFIDElffIAL
Classified by:
Reason:
1.5 (d!)
Declassify On:i
(IZ)
am
CeitH'IB~M'fIA:L

is he? .(.e)
He's quite optimistic on the peace stuff,
The President:
That is a bit of hope, then . . ~
The President:
The other nice trivial thing is that the British
Open is humiliating every golfer in the world. The average
score yesterday was 79.
(U)
It's the bloody weather, is it?
(U)
The President:
Yes. They have made i t has hard as they could.
They enjoy making people miserable.
It's quite good, though.
(U)
We must get you up there playing someday.
(U)
The President:
Where are we? I hope I gave a helpful statement
yesterday.
I said that I had failed to persuade them to work it
out, too, and we should just go on from here. ;e1
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
GONFIDENTIM
COHFIDEH'fIAL
'1 E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
There's nothing to do now, is there?
Mitchell going to do something to help a bit? .,.kef
That would be helpful, Bill.
Is George
The President:
COHFIDE~J'l'VrL
Yes.
ye1
1E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
CONnDK~JTPL
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President: They can't have it both ways. So many of them,

I believe, there are so very many of them who are having a hard
time,- whatever they say, in letting go of it. It's like their
security blanket. Imagine what their lives are like, a certain
amount of romance, danger, drama
fe1
The President: -- power. You're asking them to put a little
white bread sandwich in a lunchbox and go off to work at the
factory. It'll be hard for them. ~
Prime Minister Blair: You mentioned this once before, I don't
know if you recall. I have put some people to work on that. I
The President: Sinn Fein proper can imagine themselves running

social services agencies or political services, but somebody
ought to talk to Gerry about what are their people going to do
with their lives when this is over. I think it's a big problem.
It plays on their psychology. I just -- I've been thinking a
lot of what I'm going to do when I leave here, but -- this may
be a big postulate -- but what if I had been a romantic
terrorist, especially lately, when it wasn't a lot of work and
you didn't have to set off more than one bomb every two years,
you know? I think you really have to think about what we can do
not only to guarantee their security and safety, but to give
some meaning to their lives, some way that they can participate
in the new Ireland. I may be wrong, but I think it's a huge
problem for Gerry Adams, even if most are not aware of what the
real problem is. )1
Prime Minister Blair: I agree. I have some people working on
that. ~J_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _~
C O~IFI DEHT IAL
J E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d)J
CONFI DEHTIAL
The President:
They should be asked whether they have ever
actually talked to these people about what they would do with
their lives when this is over. They may have some ideas, but I
can't help but believe that is a big problem here.
If Gerry
thinks it's silly, at least you've opened it with him and he
should consider doing something. ~
The President:
weekend, too.
We will do that.
I'll call some of our Irish guys over the

~
I
COHFIDENTIJ'.L
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
CONFIDEN'1'L",L
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
Do you think I should come over there?
what you were going to say?
rer
Is that
I was going to say it is not a bad idea .
.....(.ff
The President:
day trip.
JQ1
Okay, I'll do it.
I can do an overnight or a
The President:
I'll call George and some of our congressmen
over the weekend.
I'll get on that. Maybe I can do that, if
George can come up with something different.
It wouldn't be
very different, but it could look different. ~
Bill, one other thin
IKO. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President:
Yes, we have to have something there.
see George Soros' article? ~
No, I didn't.
Did you
The President:
It's what you're arguing, but on a faster
timetable. He is arguing for a customs union within the Balkans
and some provision where you put them on a clear path to EU
membership as a region. Even if Serbia gets rid of Milosevic,
you can't deal with them on a nation-by-nation basis, because of
the inter-ethnic problems. He basically said they need to come
up with a regional currency to force them together.
It's quite
COWFIDE~l'TIl'.L
CQNFIDKNTL",L
a clever piece. Soros is not always right, but he's a genuine

visionary.
I will get someone to fax it over to you. And I'11
see what we can say on the 30 th )Zl
./
Prime Minister Blair: Maybe our people should talk.

I think we
have to have an impact beyond just holding a conference.
J,Q-)"
I agree with that. We sure as hell can't go
The President:
just
have a conference. Alright, man. Keep your
over there and
chin up. .kef
All the best.
The President:
Goodbye.
Okay.
(U)
(U)
End of Conversation
CONFIDEN'FIAL
. CONFIDENTIAL
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON

E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)
ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, documeut uo. 74
SUBJECT:
Bilateral Meeting Between The President and

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
United States
The President
Samuel R. Berger, Assistant to the President
James Steinberg, Deputy Assistant to the
Steven Ricchetti, Deputy Chief of Staff
Gene Sperling, Assistant to the President
for Economic Policy and Director of
the National Economic Council
Antony Blinken, Special Assistant to the
President and Senior Director for
European Affairs, NSC Staff (notetaker)
Great Britain
Tony Blair, Prime Minister
John Sawers, Diplomatic Advisor
Allistar Campbell, Press Secretary
Private Secretary
DATE, TIME
PLACE:
June 18, 1999, 1:40 - 2:35 p.m.

Hyatt Hotel, Cologne, Germany
The President:
Tony, you did a very good job on the debt issue.
If we can make it work, that will mean almost 2/3 debt
forgiveness for the poorest countries. This would be a real
step forward.
The Jubilee has enormous appeal -- getting rid of
all the debt for the millennium. But it also has real problems
that we would need to access before we embrace the concept.
For
example, Bob Rubin points out that for countries that may want
to borrow more who get 100 percent forgiveness, wiping out their
debt will be much harder for them because it will effect their
credit rating. Maybe we should look at adding rescheduling
CONFI:lE~JTIAL
Classified by:
Robert A. Bradtke
Reason:
1.5 (~)..
Decla"ify OU,(
. _ .
JUIE~'-'2- _~u-'c-~
e:"., '. mTON LiBRARY PHOTOCOpy

~~~_:2.~~~~::.
"..}_._-__:::--):,", . ,'
COHFI DHTIAL
without taking them out of the credit market. Rubin feels very
strongly about this. But anyway, what we need to do is focus on
the fact that we are doing a huge deal here. This is a major
achievement. We must not let what we are not doing become the
s or. It's what we are doing that's important. je1
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I
'-
Yes, I fully agree with that.)
Jim Steinberg:
The problem is specifying who. That is, who are
the 1,000 companies and why are we choosing them.
I think it
woul~be better to callan the private sector as a whole.
kef
The President: That's true but on the other hand this needs to
be organized. We can't just calion companies to act.
~
Jim Steinberg: Well there is a legal question when asking
specific companies.
~
Gene Sperling:
The problem of asking specific companies is that
there could be a feeling of coercion. )1
The President:
I think the thing to do would be to designate a
lead person in the business community to do this. That's what
we did on welfare.
I asked Eli Segal to run a voluntary
program.
ter
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

Gene Sperling:
It would be a real political challenge to
support. And also I think there would be concern that we have
opened the door at the last moment. ~
The President:
The problem frankly is Congress. It is a
different party and not likely to do me any favors and so I do
not think we would get support. The way it works is that there
is an allocation to each committee. It is always less for
foreign affairs. So we are forced to choose among programs.
CONFIDEN'PIAL
CQl)IFIDEN'FIJrL
There is a real weakness of commitment to foreign aid,

especially since the end of the Cold War. We have a big
surplus.
If I take the caps off, the Republicans will push for
a tax cut.
We have made a commitment to save Social Security.
So it wouidbe hard to do this without opening a Pandora's Box.
We need to wait to see if we get an omnibus deal. So I am
reluctant to look like we are urging this and then be in a
position where we can'tdelivet. But if we can quietly see that
there is a consensus on this, I can say to Congress this is what
the whole world wants to do.
It is a good idea on the merits.
But it would be better to forge a consensus here than for us to
lead on this issue given the politics. Also, we will have
another shot over the next couple of years. J21
Tony, do you want to talk about Kosovo? I have one big point to
make:
you had a huge impact on the execution of this campaign
and on our ability to sell what we needed to do. You realized
the need to improve our communications. Now, the big decision
we have to face is making sure that this works.
There is a huge
effort in bringing people back, in rebuilding lives, in spite of
the magnitude of the crisis. There is a mental health crisis.
I sent Elie Wiesel to the region to talk to the refugees.
I
talked to Jesse Jackson about this. All of us agree that we
need some kind of systematic, organized effort maybe working
through faith groups. We need to start. But before even all of
that, the UN must pick someone we would hire to oversee the
civilian implementation. Nationality doesn't matter to me. All
that counts is confidence, energy, and organization skills.
Those are the ke s.
The Economist had a uff eace on Bildt.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
Prime Minister Blair: Yes, I fully agJee.

decision. Who are the candidates?
~)
This is a critical
Samuel Berger: No one has emerged that I am aware of. The

selection seems to focus on former Foreign Ministers or defeated
Prime Ministers. With all respect, that is the wrong mind-set.
We need a CEO-type. Je1
The President: There must be a terrific European business
person who has worked in the Balkans, for example. Someone with
imagination and executive ability. Je1
CONFIDEN"i'IAL
CotilPIDEN'f'IAL
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President:
European.
J.e1
Yes he is, but of course, the Europeans want a
The President:
weeks.
r...e1
Well I am happy with an American.
I am afraid that the UN will dither on this for
Yes,
Samuel Berger:
If I could just raise one idea. You both should
lay down a marker with the Secretary General on how you see the
job. You should imply a veto right.
In other words, you
together would expect he would not appoint someone without your
approval.
t,.e)
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
Anyway, I don't
know your politics in Europe. But I do know that this is our
deal.
If it fails, it will be our failure. My have no
preconceived notions and no conditions on nationality. My only
concern is confidence. ~
Jacques Klein is tough and good. But I keep coming back to the
bottom line -- whoever it is has to be up to the job. ~
John Sawers:
.....(.Gt-
Allister Campbell:
I
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
COHFIDEN'PIAL
CONFIDEN:t'IAL
The President:
I don't think the Secretary General is thinking

ask who is the
and Europe. Who
Y POSl lon lS on
00
navigated the shoals of partisan politics and never
anything.
This requires special additional skills.
have loved to have the job myself.
(x1
from scratch.
(U)
I would
Yes, it really is rebuilding a country
If I were the head of a company, I'd love this
Prime Minister Blair: We should start di

least there is a good choice.
The President:
for names so at
This must not be about politics.
The President:
I KO. 13526, section 1.4(d)

In the end, this really is a unique
position.
It's like being the procounsel of a country. You
need communication skills, executive skills.
John Sawers:
I
The President: On the issue of relief we've got $1 billion

earmarked for the short-term. On long-term reconstruction, I
guess we have this conference in the Fall. On the EU's
Stability Pact, we want to contribute but since most of the
money is European, it's hard for us to shape it.
I think we
need to take a step back and look at the Marshall Plan, and also
think about what we want this to look like in ten years. We
CONFIDENTIAl.
COHFI DEN l' 1M
need a prosperous Balkans so there is less temptation for

conflict. We want it to be more integrated with Europe. With
the EU, with NATO.
The first thing we need to do is to define
the universe: Slovenia, Romania, Bulgaria, ~acedonia, Albania,
Montenegro, Kosovo. And Serbia if we can get rid of Milosevic.
I think we need to apply one of the central ideas of the
Marshall plan which is to get the beneficiaries to meet together
and define their own vision of the Balkans, how they would use
the money, how they would apportion it. We need to force them
to assume responsibility for their own future.
They need to
have a real plan and develop themselves with our help.
There
are some real smart u s there that can do this,
Yes,
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President: That's true. We all need to think about what

more we can do. We, in the United States, need to think about
whether we should say to Congress that we should accelerate
accession for some of the Balkan countries into NATO. You might
consider the same thing for the European Union. Should there be
a customs Union with the EU, like Turkey. Should you accelerate
the session process? If you think we, should push the envelope,
we can push Schroeder, Chirac and D'Alema to think about this~
j.Q1
I agree we should push the envelope.
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President: We need direct aid too. We've already got some
going for Albania and Macedonia.
I think we need to structure
our assistance in Kosovo in a way that is helpful to the Front
Line States.
For example, using their construction companies.
We need to get people on the ground to start turning our roadrnap
for the Balkans into reality. We need the person, we need the
plan, we need an approach that takes into account the whole
region. What I think we should do on the Stability Pact is for
us and Prodi to convene a meeting in the Balkans maybe in
Sophia. Bring all the people together, the U.S., the EU, the
CONP! DEN'!' IAL
cmIFHlEN'I'IAb
concerned countries, and the international financial

institutions.
We need to forge a common vision and get their
buy in. We need to start a process for them to meet and to plan
their own future.
It's not like these people are not smart.

way to proceed.
Jet
Yes, I agree that would be a very good
The President: Similarly, we need to decide whatever we can do

with NATO, the EU, and with aid. We need to get to work.
If we
can get the people in the region bought in, it will change the
d namics and sychology of people and the region. ~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
Prlme Mlnlster B air:
I agree very strongly.
Samuel Berger: We also have to solve this problem with the

Russians.
I think we are almost there.
(U)
I
I
1'===~--------------------~
John Sawers:
Samuel Berger: Actually, that's been sorted out. The real

problem that still needs to be resolved is that Yelstin
continues to want a sector. ~
Let me make clear my view:

The President:
I think we all need to watch them.
If we have
something that we can live with, I don't mind letting them
declare victory so we can just get this out of the headlines and
move on. Right now they are in the way and we need to resolve
this.
I want to nail this Russian thing down. The other reason
is that I am truly worried that Yeltsin might make a dangerous
decision. He thinks we are trying to extend our sphere of
influence. He just doesn't understand we are trying to make a
more peaceful Europe and reverse ethnic cleansing. But I think
he wili do the right thing at the end.
~
CONFIPEN'I'IAlJ
We need to close on this today.
(U)
CONTI DEN'I' IAL
The President:
Yeltsin is the only Russian leader who truly
hates communism, believes in freedom and integration with the
west.
vz!
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President:
I agree with that.
In addition, we need a huge
effort to move the center of Russian politics.
I think one way
to do that is for us to get more parliamentarians there.
It's a
huge effort to go to them and to bring them to us in a more
. systematic way but I think it's worth it.
That will really help
to educate politicians there and move them to the center. We
need to combat their insularity.
02f
I know we have run out of time but at
some point I would like to have a few words about Northern
Ireland.
tel'
The President:
Yes, I've got some ideas that we should discuss.
Let's try to find some time this afternoon. -+et
End of Conversation
GONFI QEHTIM
cor,nSENTIAl
CONFIDEH'fIAL
/,11
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)
SVBJECT:

(V)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Michael Manning, Deana Sutliff,
Roger Merletti, James Smith and Richard
Norland
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
September 8, 1999, 5:13 - 5:32 p.m. EDT

Oval Office
Hello.

The President:
(V)
Hi, Bill.
(V)
Tony, how are you?
(V)
Prime Minister Blair: Fine, I'm great.

holiday and I'm feeling good.
(V)
The President:
Did you go to Italy?
I've had a very good
(V)
Prime Minister Blair: Yes, I went to Italy and France and had a
good" time. ," Where were you now? (V)
The President: I was in Martha's Vineyard and then New York,
but I'm about to go off to New Zealand for a week, and I wanted
to talk to you before I left. I've been talking to everybody
about this East Timor situation and the rumor mill is rife that
Habibie might be deposed or they're sending some military leader
out there who says he will never give East Timor up. I believe
we all need to put as much pressure as possible on Indonesia to
accept a force and then figure out who'll make it up. The
Aussies are ready to go, they want to send 2,000 or 3,000 people
cmrn DEU'fIAL
Classified by: Robert A. Bradtke
Reason: 1.5 (d)
Declassify On:!
CONFIDENTIAL
there; they don't think it will (take very many people. And, if
the UN approved it, the Chinese might even send some people.
But I think it would be a very embarrassing comparison to Kosovo
if Indonesia runs all the Timorese out of the country or if they
reverse it and we don't do anything. We've got to do something,
it seems to me, so anything you can do to put the heat on
Indonesia would be helpful. Je1
I agree.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President: Guterres is

going to table a
motion even if Indonesia won't support it. He's got to. He
said there was a lO-km human chain demonstrating against him.
-tet
The President:
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
Absolutely right.

The President:
Yes.
JCr
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

~
IE.O.13526, section l.4(b)(d)1
The President:
would
CONTIDEN'fIAL
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
CONFIDENTIAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President: Yes. I think -- I don't think the Chinese wili

allow the resolution to go through if they don't accept it,
because of this whole sovereignty thing.
tef
I~_p_r_i_m_e__M_i_n_l_.s__t_e_r__B_l_a_l_.r__: __I___________________________________~
The Bresident:
No.
.J.e-rI haven't, either.
The President: The reason I haven't -- there's a rumor he's

being deposed now -- the reason I haven't called is, every time
I put pressure on him, he gets unmerciful grief there that he's
toad in to the United states.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

L -_______________________________- -~-----
The President:
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
wan e
0 say a word a out
the Balkans.
I got your letter and I understand the pressure
you're under to cut deployment in order to increase readiness
and retention, but I hope you can maintain your position as a
lead nation in both Bosnia and Kosovo, because our partnership
there has been a bedrock of success and the Russians, I believe,
are working out better than we'd hoped. I think the Kosovo
thing is settling down, if we can just hang on. Your letter
indicated you're talking to allies about making contributions to
backfill your forces.
I don't know how that's going, but I hope
we can maintain a good level of cooperation and ability with
whoever goes in there. ~
LP_r_i_ID_e__M_l_'n_l_._s_t_e_r__B_l_a_i_r_:_/
_________________________________________
CONFIDEWl'IAL
~j)
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
CONFIDEH'fIAL
.The President: Me, too.

I think we shouldn't get too soft on
these sanctions against Serbia.
I think we ought to tighten the
sanctions on Milosevic and his crowd.
I hope you'll get the
other
~
(C)
The President:
setback? 18
Have you talked to Schroeder since his
The President:

weeks.
ele~tion
No.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
I'm due to see him in the next couple of
The President:
I'll try to call him before I leave for Asia.
There's not much I can do, but I can encourage him.
(~
cmiFIDENTIAL
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
CONFIDEN':PIAL
How are we doing on Northern Ireland?

The President:
George is doing fine.
The Catholic?
Yes.
The President:
It was unanimous, wasn't it?
Americans? )..e1
Including the two
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
Don't you think it will just get worse if we
don't resolve the politics of it? ..+-e-r
CONFIDENTIAL
;.
CONFIDEWfL"do
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)\

The President: You don't think there's any chance the Mitchell
talks will produce a breakthrough? Jef
I think there's some chance, but it's
pretty slim at the moment.
The President:
when. Jct
I'm ready any time.
You just have to tell me
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)\

CONFIDBN''fL'lL
The President:
So, the main thing you, want me to do now is say
something nice about the Patten report? )X1
/kj
For us, now, that is the critical thing.
The President:
I'll be down in New Zealand, but there's a hellof a lot going on in the world at the moment, and we can always
talk.
I just wanted you to know I'll be out of pocket for the
next week or 10 days.
Jet
Prime Minister Blair: When am I going to see you?
doing the Third Way thing in Florence?
(U)
The President:
Absolutely.
Are you
(U)
They're all very excited.
(U)
The President: You shouldn't be the only guy speaking English

who gets to go to Italy.
(U)
Italian.
(U)
The President:
You did?
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)!

Pr~me M~n~s er Blair:
The President:
When I was in Italy I learned a little
(U)
,-_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _,
Enough to get by. /
Is he one of ours?
Yes, he's one of ours.
The President: Gosh, I thought I had had him in here.

check it out. .J&r
Let me
I
The President:
GG~TFI DENT 1hL
Got it.
When are his elections?

j.G-f
GOHFIDEHI'IAb
The President:
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
Okay, I'll do it.
Thank you.

Zealand. (U)
Okay, Bill.
The President:
Goodbye.
Okay.
Have a good time in New
(U)
End of Conversation
CONFI DEN'FIAL
Je1
SECREr
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASH INCHON

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers:
Jenny McGee, Robert Ford,
Joel Ehrendreich, Elizabeth Rogers,
Roger Merletti and Richard Norland
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
October 13, 1999, 10:38 - 11:29 a.m.

Oval Office
Tony, how are you?
I'm fine.
(U)
(U)
The President:
I haven't talked to you in a while and I wanted
to check in on a few things.
(U)
How are you doing?
(U)
The President:
I'm great.
I've been fighting reactionaries in
Congress, we're winning with the people.
I thought your speech
to your party group was great.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: Thanks. We've got an interesting
situation here at the moment because the conservatives have
really moved off to a very far right position.
(U)
The President:
That's what our guys are doing here. One reason
Bush is doing so well is because he criticized one thing on the
right. He is making people think he is saving them from the
right. But, it's a fraud because he is really for them on
everything else.
I have to figure out how to expose the fraud
that Bush is the new Clinton, establishing a new Republican
party like I made a new Democratic party.
It's helping Bush but
it is killing AI. They asked me what I thought, and I said it
SECRE'f
Classified by: Robert A. Bradtke
Reason:
1.5(c,~d)
~~.'
_~~ ___,__ ~~_~-~,
Declassify On:! 10/~9~J~'<'''~' ---c~;
0';, .' ~TON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY . i'
. 'p! ~~~:.;.__ .__ .;.:---._..~ ..:.,..c..:,_",~~~_~~.~
:.. -<-:J._----'-, '. ,'-' -:-;~" ,."
SEeRE''
was terrible how the right wing was treating him. After all, he
was for them, and his lobbyists organized them to kill our
patients' bill of rights. He was for school vouchers and for
the NRAtrying to kill our handgun measures.
Why were they
being so mean to him? I thought it was terrible how mean they
were being, but they wouldn't give what I said that much press
-- it wasn't what they wanted to say.
That is what we've got to
do. Al has to position himself between Bush and Bradley. Now
it's very interesting. We are at a point where the perceptioos
of major players are at variance with their positions.
It's a
terrible thing and there'~ a limit to how much I can do because,
in our political culture, I can say what I think but it will
hurt if it appears I'm trying to control the outcome of another
election.
I've got to be careful not to tell people how to
vote.
(U)
it?
(U)
Yes.
Policy is the way to do it, isn't
The President:
Yes, you're right, it is . . What I am doing -the results speak for themselves. The question is not whether
we are going to change, but how we change -- a u-turn or hold on
to what we're doing. Here are the new ideas for the 21 st
century. That is the argument I am making, and the argument
Gore has to make.
(U)
I think he's got to really.
If it comes
down to general positioning, it will get more difficult.
(U)
The President:
The people still don't know what a VP does in
our country.
It's not an accident we've elected only two in our
history. But it's still the best way to become president -someone dies or something happens in the interim.
The Vice
President has become more important in modern American history.
That's how Nixon got to come back as President. Nixon barely
lost, and Bush won when Dukakis collapsed.
It's not such a bad
thing to be a Vice President now.
It's not the handicap it once
was, but you have to capitalize on it. So far we haven't been
able to capitalize on it even though our ratings are slightly
higher than Eisenhower's and Reagan's were at this point. He
ought to be able to do that, I think he is getting it sorted out
now.
(U)
(U)
SECRET
It's really about definition, I think.
The President: It always is, isn't it? I have half a dozen

things I'd like to discuss. How did your government change play
Prime Minister
The President:
I really like him.
He is such a bright man.
+&l-

-The President:
I saw him recently.
He told me that. /
I
The President:
It was probably time for Mo to get out.
;e1
~_p_r_i_m_e M_~_'n
__
__i_s_t_e_r__B_l_a__i_r_:____________________________________________
~~
The President: She served you well and worked very hard. She
made people laugh when she pissed them off, and that's a great
thing. ).e}
The President: If you want me to do anything, let me know.

know that Ian Paisley got mad at what I said last week, but
I I'll try
'-n-o-t:---;-t-=-o--=o"";f::-f::-e""':r::--=-a-=n-=-ym=-o-=r-:e=-u":"n=-h;--::-e'l-=p""f;:'u::-il;--a-:n-a-l'o-:--:-g"i-e-=s-:.---'I'i"-:w:-::-:"r':-o-':t-=e--:It::-:o:---lh im t ha t I
will try to stay out of the analysis business.
~)
I
aECRET
J
/
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
:>ECRET
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President:
I've always found that if someone's offended by
a remark, it is better to apologize immediately because people
who agree with what you said won't hold it against you. Anyway,.
ring the bell if you want me to do anything. They just have to
finally decide whether to cut a deal or not.
I think in the end
they have to decide.
It has dragged on so long I don't expect
either side to eat the whole thing. ~
Yes. /
The President:
One thing Gerry said, I've never talked to you
about it, Gerry told me they trusted de Chastelain and would
stay on it if he promulgated a schedule. ~
The President:
You could even have de Chastelain promulgate a
schedule for decommissioning starting on a date that was ten
days after they got in the executive. ~
The President:
Yes.
Pr ime Minister Blair:
I
The President:
What if de Chastelain promulgated a schedule for
decommissioning and then you said to Trimble that he'd better
:>ECRE'I'
,.,
let Sinn Fein in the government before then so he doesn't give

them an excuse for slipping that date. ~
Yes.
The President: And then Trimble lets them in and says if they
sli , we'll walk out. What about that?
~)
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
What about Adams? -tet
The President:
Yes.
\
The President:
Anyway, that is best idea I've got.
LI_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
The President:
It sort of takes it away from them.
If you
could let de Chastelain offer the schedule, they could say
something nice about how they respect de Chastelain. But
they've got to be in the government to fulfill this obligation,
then if this date slips then Trimble says I'm walking. And then
it is allan them.
They both have what they asked for, they are
in the executive and then have this date staring them in the
face -- only ten days away.
It seems that would help Trimble
with his constituents if he has a deal in advance and not three
months away. Everybody's used to wandering around their offices
and getting to know each other and trying not to look like the
biggest asshole at the garden party.
This has to happen fairly
quickly.
(.G+Prime Minister Blair:
\====~----------------------~
SECRET
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
SECRE'P
The President: Why don't we call Mitchell and run it by him if

ou think it ml ht have some merit. ~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
That way Adams doesn't have to say anything to
get into the government but they are screwed immediately and
quickly if they don't deliver. Let me run it by Mitchell. ~
Prime Minister Blair:~
\
The President:
Okay. There a couple of other things I'd like
to run through.
First, thank you and Jacques and Gerhard for
running that piece on CTBT in the New York Times. Here's the
problem. My Senate agreed to a truncated schedule. Half of the
Republicans are against this on its merit.
For the others it's
just politics. They are out to screw me because they don't want
to help me and don't want to help AI. But a bunch are genuine
isolationists.
They just say 'piss on our allies n and "to hell
with what they thinki screw anybody who screws with us. n
It's
just sick what a world we are living in here. But I'm trying to
work a deal so this is not voted down.
I'm trying to work on a
schedule.
If they start hearings, we will get them involved in
the process.
Even if they don't ratify while I am president,
it'll be obvious to the world that they are strengthening the
treaty. They will if they are working on safeguards. But it is
just silly intellectually, just awful what they are doing. And
they are hurting themselves. They are giving us a good issue in
the elections.
It is terrible what they have done. But your
piece was very helpful and I wanted to thank you for it. The
problem is that under the-rules of the Senate they are in a
position where a small majority can prevent the vote from being
delayed now. We may get it put off by one vote. ~
The President:
Right.
Whatever happens, we'll bang them pretty good.
(C)

L -__________________I
The President: Thank you.

I don't think this is the end of
American leadership on arms control, just parliamentary
SECRET
maneuvers.
out there.
It's just a rightwing group and they are just way

~

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b )( d)
The President:
It's stupid. They won't pay UN dues and they
don't want an aid budget. They want a big military that never
does anything.
They spend more money on defense than I do, but
don't want them to do anything, and I'm the most pro-defense
Democrat President that we've had; They want a bunch of bombs
and missile.s and a defense system, and then they just cut
everybody's taxes. They want to put rich people behind gates so
the starving can't get at them. They basically want an upscale
Brazil for America.
It is awful, but I think we can beat them
back.
I want to say a word about Florence, and then I've got
two other things.
I'm glad we let Cardoso come, but can you
explain to me, in a European context, why we didn't invite Wim
Kok or Guterres from Portugal? ~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
The other guy I thought should have been
invited, who has been a wonderful ally to all of us is Chretien.
r=~~~~~~~~I~E~.O~.=1=3=52=6~,~se=ct=io=n=1=.4=(d~)~I~~~~=-~~~~~I
I agree.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
I'm afraid it will undercut the whole idea of a
global movement.
I will not be in office to work with these
people more than another 15 months, but you and Chretien may be
around another five ears. The other guy in Latin America is
Zedillo,
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
But if I were doing it and I were

European, I would want Guterres and Kok and I don't know about
Austria, I don't know him. Chretien, every time we need him, he
shows up and raises the flag.
~
al!:CRgT
SECRET'
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President:
Absolutely.
I am in complete agreement.
Are you going to sing the Marseillaise?
Yes.
The President:
I do too. And it is also a way for Europe to
get more influence over him in a positive way. )Zl
'-------~~
The President:
Is there anything we can do to help him?
The President: Maybe one thing that could come out of Italy is
some sort of statement that will help him.
~

The President:
The thing that bot~ers me is that he has the
worst of both worlds.

At least for all the horrible
SECRE'f
bloodshed in '94 we had policies in place that turned the

country around by '96, congressional gains in '96 and '98, and
we rna be able 't get Congress back in 2000. -+erE.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d)
The President:
Yeah.
I'll take some guidance from you, and I
will talk to him about it.
I think he's trying to do the right
thing but he's been a little foggy about it.
jQ1
The President:
I agree.
I will do what I can.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President:
Yes. Okay, we need to think about that. Let me
mention a couple of other things. The WTO ministerial will be
held in Seattle in Washington State in December and preparations
are in full swing.
I think this is a major opportunity for the
third way agenda to put a human face on the global economy. We
have to come out for more open trade and the legitimate
interests of labor and environment. I've been to Geneva twice
to talk about this and the child labor convention. We think it
would be a very good thing to have a WTO working group on trade
and strategy analysis, not on negotiations. We have been in
touch with your people, and I hope we can work together on this.
A lot of people are afraid to discuss the two things in the same
breath. But the whole pitch here has to be we can't turn our
backs on integrating the global economy. But I want to do it in
a way that takes everybody along. ~
10

~--------------~
The President: Yes, it is. We're going to have every NGO and
labor union demonstrating against us and we have to have
something that answers what they are saying.
I see rising
protectionism in this country.
In the last two years, we took
on a huge amount of the shortfall of the Asian economy by
increasing imports and running a trade deficit which is unusual
in conventional terms, but the world has changed quite a lot.
For example, in '97 and '98 we bought ten times more steel from
. Japan; China, and Russia than Europe did.
Protectionism is
rising among Republicans and Democrats, and I see it manifesting
itself in other countries. We have to find a way to turn back
the tide of it. We have to try to find mechanisms where we can
discuss all these things together.
Europe is in better shape on
this than we are.
I'm not trying to impose standards on other
countries, but there's got to be a way to work our way through
this. -+e-r
~_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _--J~
The President:
I wish you would. We have to see how this plays
out against the media story in America to see if there is more
coverage given to the people demonstrating than to the fact that
we are going to meet.
Two others issues I would like raise.
President Frei of Chile raised Pinochet with me in New Zealand.
He said Pinochet's presence in London is a big problem for the
Chilean government. He thought they had worked out a solution
to get rid of him by putting him in the Senate. They are very
concerned now.
Our position has got to be that this is a legal
matter and whatever you do, we will be in agreement. But Chile
has twice the per capita income of any other in Latin America,
they have had this immense success, and they thought they had
put this nightmare behind them.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

SECRBT
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
ECRE'f
11
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President:
The real thing we need to do is get more victims
to say ~send him home and let us handle it here. n
I got it .
.Jet
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
I won't say this to anybody.
I'm also aware
what a problem this is for you. My take on where they are is
they thought they had done their version of Mandela's Truth
Commission -- put it in a box and store it there, not live
forever. ~
Yes.
The President: A final point -- Iraq.

I am afraid we're in a
different place in the Security Council. We worked all these
years on negotiations and before that, and I hope we don't get
divided here.
The language your people worked out with the
French crosses a red line because it suspends sanctions on
Saddam Hussein before disarmament. When I took office, the Bush
position was, I thought, unfair. We wouldn't ever lift
sanctions until Saddam Hussein complied with his disarmament
obligations and with obligations on all other UN resolutions,
human rights and all that. Now I am prepared to say that if he
meets his disarmament obligations and puts a system in place
where he's complying, I would be prepared to suspend sanctions
and liberalize the oil-for-food program -- especially with the
price of oil going up, we should be better off. But I think if
we say to this guy, ~If you start to comply, we will lift
sanctions,n he will quickly reestablish the weapons of mass
destruction program, and it will become known in two years that
he has.
It may not happen "rhile I'm in office,
1
you.
It could become a real ni htmare for

I understand where the French are and we are prepared
to move from our former position aspecially on oil-for-food
SECRE'f
gECREP
things.
12
I know everyone is getting sanctions fatigue,
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
Would it end the suspension because any country
could vote to veto continuing it? ~
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
SECRET
SECRET
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
13
The President: Our guys here in Congress, even the Democrats,

are attacking me because I haven't. done enough to get rid of
him. I think they will eat me alive if I agree to lift
sanctions while he has his weapons program going on. f6+
The President: But it looks like the UN has finally given in to

him if you have no sanctions without disarmament.
LP_r__i_m_e__M_i_n_l_'s_t__e_r__B_l_a_l_'r__: __________________________________________
~/:).
The President: Have you worked out the differences between

"certain" and "all"? ye;)
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President: I don't know, I am very skeptical.
at the specifics.
~
SECRE'f
I will look
SECRET
14
Look Bill.
! E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)!
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
! E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)!
The President: There may be a solution here in the details, but

I am genuinely quite skeptical.
I've been dealing with this guy
for a long time. )J21
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)\
The President:
We've been criticized for not bein
condemning of the coup.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
ECRE'f'-
more
oS EeRE'!'
15
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
Two
strong people can do the sensible thing.
I think our objective
ought to be to get them to do the sensible' thing. J&r
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President:
Okay.
We will stay in touch.
(U)
Bill, when will we see you then?
(U)
The President:
I will see you in Italy and probably at the OSCE
thing in Turkey.
(U)
talk with you.
(U)
Yeah.
It will be good to have a proper
The President:
Yeah.
You are in a position, as you get more
influence in Europe, I believe we've got a shot now, because of
the two earthquakes, to resolve the conflict between Greece and
Turkey. To accept Turkey into the EU will lock Turkey into the
West for the next fifty years and that would help solve some
problems if east of there goes sour.
Two areas that I have
wanted to make progress on -- the Aegean and India/Pakistan. We
need to talk again, maybe before the OSCE, and I will tell you
what I have been doing on it. But I think we've got a shot in
the Aegean now.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
16
SECRE'P
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The president:
The Turks and Greeks are getting along better.
The earthquakes made them see. each other as human beings again.
The problem is Cyprus. The Greeks think they were uprooted and
can't go to visit their relatives' graves.
It's got to be a
strictly cold-blooded deal. We've done our part with military
coope~atio~.
We've got to get something that leads them on the
-path to Europe.
Otherwise, they'll never do it because they
think they need to ~get alonif' like the Irish.
tGt
The President:
That is what we need.

The president:
Okay Bill.
(U)
I will see you soon and thank you.
Goodbye.
(U)
End of Conversation
SECRET
(U)
tONFI DEt.'!' IM
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:
PARTICIPANTS:

Blair
(U)
The President
..s
'~"
~
'"...l<
'"
~
~
<
Notetakers: Jenny McGee, Joel Ehrendreich,

Robert Ford, Hoyt Yee and Richard Norland
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
I ~~
~~
""<
Ou
November 26, 1999, 11:55 a.m.-12:02 p.m. EST ~5

Penn National Golf Course, Maryland
; ~
0<
:t...l
"'U~
The President: Can you hear me? I am celebrating Thanksgiving

with my entire family.
The wind is blowing and the rain is
going like crazy.
I might as well be in England.
(U)
Where are you?
(U)
The President:
I am up at Camp David.
I am out playing golf
and it is raining like hell, and the wind is blowing.
(U)
;;;,>-c,
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"'zq
Q-",
The President:
Can I help in any way?

conFIDEN'fIAL
Classified by:
Robert A. Bradtke
Reason:
1.5(d)
Declassify On:;
CONFIDENTIAL
do that and put a statement out

The President: Sounds to me like you got some pretty good

language with Chirac on the European Security issue. Jef
The President: I just don't want to give the isolationists here

any encouragement.
~
Prime Hinister Blair:
The President:
am behind you.
I appreciate that.
I agree.
You are doing the right thing, and I
.(e)
Prime Minister Blair: I think it might be helpful, if at some

stage, I came over and saw some of the people on the Hill and
made a speech.
.(-e)
The President:
I agree with that.
jl
[Gap)!
The President: Let me ask you one other thing. I hear Chirac
wouldn't go along with the position you wanted to take on
Cyprus.
{.e1
-tetcmiFI DEN'!' lAL
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
CWNFI DEH'I'IAL
The President: No, I just heard something and it may not be

right. The main thing, I know what Simitis wants you to say.
But it would be good if it didn't leak until as close to the loth
as possible. That would give us a week to get these talks,
(with Denktash)-, in New York, and I don't want to give him any
excuse to leave.
~
The President:
[GAP]

The President:

That's good news.
(I)
Prime Minister Blair: Incidentally, I thought you did

brilliantly in Florence.
(U)
The President:
Oh, thanks.
(U)
You made a big impression on Jospin.
je1
The President: I tried to make him see that you and I were not
threatening everything he believes in. ye7
Prime Minister Blair: It would be really good to get together
in the next few months. I have so much that I would like to go
through with you. -+e-r
The President:
than February?
When would be good?
Is January better for you
Prime Minister Blair: We will see what we can arrange. If it's

not a summit in Bermuda, we can try something else. --t+The President: I will look for something on the calendar. We
will do a statement on devolution and will clear it with you in
advance. ..+eY
The President:
Okay Bill, all the best.
Okay, bye.
(U)
COHFIDEHTIAL
(U)
COHF'IDEH'fIAL
(~ I, ~ 0 \~<
THE WHITE HOUSE
,-----------------------------------------------~~

E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)
I>
~)
I
S,--O,/
. 'f,-/.LN3 0 \


SUBJECT:
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
. NOTE TAKERS:
Michael Manning,' Frank Jarosinski, Miguel

Aguilo, and Jim Smith
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
December 16, 1999, 5:01 - 5:11 p.m. EST

Oval Office
Tony, how are you?

The President:
(U)
(U)
How are you getting on?
(U)
I'm fine.
I Prodi will be
';':h-:e-:r::-e--:t;:-o::-m:-:-o-::r-:-r-:o-:-w:--a-:n::-d:;--:;=I-:-w:-:;i'l""l~s:::p::-e::-n:::-:;d-=s-=o-=m-:e~t:::l;-:'m::-e::--w""""'i""t-;:h""'h:-:l~'m---1.
I t h ink the r e
will be some investments needed, and we'll carry a lot of it, but
we may need EU help~1~------~--~--~~-------:-~--71 If things.
get resolved, it might come to a head in a couple of months. jQ1
The President:
jQ1
That would be unbelievable, wouldn't it?

he?
(U)
The president:
That would be marvelous.
Yes.
When is Prodi getting there?
ji
Tomorrow, is
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: So they are going to come back in early

January, and you think you can pull it together then? ~
The President:
Yes, I do.
Prime Minister Blair: That would be fantastic. If you can put

this and Northern Ireland together, it would be pretty good.
yz(
CONFIDEN"fIAL
Reason: 1.5d
Declassify on
The President:
Yes.
That would be a good deal. Trimble is
coming in the next few days and I will see him. And we are doing
what we can with Sinn Fein on the issue of IRA guns. -ter
The President:
That's good. The only other thing I wanted to
mention is that I think it is important to bring this Iraq
resolutioh-to a vote tomorrow.
I know the French are going to
abstain, but we've got to get something moving -- this thing is
stuck on idle. ~
The President:
You _mean with Iraq?

The President:
Yes.
I don't know.
(JZ')
Je1
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: We played around with this for so long, we

should go for it. ~
The President:
next. .J..C+
I think it will give us an idea of where to go

If we let it go much longer, it will get
complicated for everybody,1
I
The President:
I agree.

It is sad for the people in Iraq.
everything all right with you apart from this? ~
So is
The President:
Yes.
11m doing fine and I am delighted things
are going well. We have to just keep working .at it -- chippin~
!':I.t.f::::l U
Lf?1::
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

~------The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
preparing to be a father again? ~
The President:
selves. ...(-e}
It was so unexpected.
Yes, they have their good selves and their bad
The President:
Are you
Yes, we have to keep working at it.
Are you getting any golf in?
The President: No, but I'll play soon.

out of the way first.
(V)
(U)
I have to get this work
I am really thrilled about the Helsinki decisions. The Turkey-EU

thing is a big move and it will be a big help.
It will bring
resolution to other issues. The ESDI decision was good, too.
-f+Prime Minister Blair:
~------------~/
I
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1

The President:
)k1
He's really good.
~p_r_l_'m
__
e __
M_i_n_i_s_t_e__
r __B_l_a_i_r__
: ________________
The President:
Yep,
__________________
I am quite worried about it, too.
]e1
L ____________________________________________
The President:
The in-crowd is making a lot of votes on
Chechnya. Maybe it will change when people start seeing a lot of
body bags, but as long as they keep getting the votes, they'll
keep'doing'it . ..J...e-r
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

Prime Minister Blair: Larry Summers came through here the other
day.
I had a good chat with him. Jef
The President:
He's a good man.

rest of it.
(C)
The President:
keJ
We talked about the IMF job and all the
We've got to get somebody good.
Really good.
The President: You take care of yourself.

I will keep you
posted on the Middle East stuff. It will take a little money.
kef
The President: Not yet.

we'll see.
.\Zl
The President:
Thanks.
I will say something to Prodi, then
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
All the best to you Bill.

Bye.
(U)
(U)
co'iH'IDEN'FIAL
L ) I
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:
Telcon with Prime Minister Blair of the

United Kingdom
(u)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Michael Manning, Rob Williams,
Roger Merletti,James Smith, Dick Norland
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
January 11, 2000, 4:22 to 4:45 p.m. EST

Air Force One
Hello?

The President:
Hi,
B~ll.
Hey, Tony.

The President:
(U)
(U)
.How are you?
Same to you.
Happy New Year.
a'm fine.
(U)
You getting ready for fatherhood?
Well, I'm psyched up.
(U)
(U)
How are you doing?
(U)
'-------'
The President:
I'm doing great. We're moving into our new home
and staying busy.
I've just been out to the Grand Canyon,
protecting another million acres of land, and Al's doing better.
So I'm feeling pretty good about things right now.
(U)
He seems to be picking up.
That's

The President:
Yes, I'm going to see him tomorrow.

The President:
-- a difficult situation --
Hello, Tony?
(U)
(U)
I can't hear a word you're saying.
(U)
Classified by: Robert Bradtke

Reason:
1.5 (d)
Declassify on,!:
"-----"
!{:. _: ..I~~~~~:RARYPH6T6COPY .t
ot;'-i"'-"-'~-~"-
'<=?~::-~::':~~'~:-:~-'~~'-,.;-~~>:. ,:~:~,-,: .~:_ :.-,.~~.~.".i
_..,-: . .,~;-:'''''' ",'
CONFIDEN'f'IAL

The President:
Is this any better?
I can hear you fine, now.
Alright.
(U)
(U)
Good.
The President: For one thing, he will. We've worked very hard
this, and I want them to give de Chastelain something credible
wi h.
d n't hink the hav re'e ted it out of hand,
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
It's very helpful
de Chastelain and Mandelson have minimized the sense of a
deadline," certainly publicly, because I think we need to frame
the issue for January not as meeting Trimble's deadline, but as
the need for concrete steps for de Chastelain to say the IRA is
on the way to meeting the timetable in the Good Friday agreement.
I know that Adams is trying to keep everybody together, but one
of the possibilities might be if they could be seen as responding
to you, rather than a unionist deadline. If something could be
done on the Patten report or something -- I want to make the
argument he's doing this in response to that, in addition to the
Good Friday Accord. .(.e1
Yes.
COWHDiWTIU
CONFIDSN1'IAL
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)J
The President:
giving? .-tel
What is their reasoning?
What reason are they
The President:
Yes.
(U)
CONE IDENTIAL
"OMFIfJE1<f'fIAL
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)

The President: Yes. Well, I think we have to keep reaching out
toward them and just do our best. But I'm glad you saw him. Let
me say very briefly, we had a good week here with the Israelis
and the Syrians. There's a lot of tough work to go but when they
come back, I think you will see a break one way or another. I
just hope and pray it works. I think we have some chance to
achieve it, but we are not there by a long shot. jQt
Prime Minister Blair: Best of luck on it.
you're putting into it. ~
The President:
It's a great effort
I think we'll make'
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

Prime Minister Blair: Yes, and Bill, I think we will see each
other in Davos. You're making a speech? (V)
The President: Yes. So, I will see ~ou there, but I will call
you as soon as I know something on tnis.
(V)
The President:
That's great.
okay, Tony.
Goodbye.
Goodbye.
(V)
(V)
(V)
End of Conversation
CONFIDEH1'IAL
.~~~._fl... ~;,.:,------
- ..
-~~:
~~l'0N LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY
-:,:-:-~;-:..,~~~ :":'_~r---,;>~.'....f':"""~;".""~':";' --;::-'- ..~.~/,~....~.'-'.'
SECRE'f

E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)
0777

THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:

United Kingdom
(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Deana Sutliff, Frank Jarosinski,
James Smith, Roger Merletti and Dick Norland
DATE, TIME
AND. PLACE:
The President:
January 31, 2000, 2:29-2:50 p.m. EST

The Residence
Hello.

The President:
(U)
Hello, Bill.
Hello, Tony.
(U)
(U)

I am really sorry to trouble you, but I
thought I should bring you up to date on the Irish front.
(U)
The President:
It's okay.
(U)
3ECRET
Classified by:
Reason:
1.5d
Declassify on
tA(b)(d)
$~CRE~
The President:
What do you think is really going on in the IRA?
J.81
IE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
....~
o
......=
'"'"'"'
~
...Q
&l
...,
....
The President:
Everyone else has made compromises
~I
__~__~____~~__~____~__~~~~I
said.
~E~v7.e~r~yb~o~dr,y~e~I~s~e~rld'lrldr7w~h~a~t~t~h~e,ry .
Everybody else already delivered first.
The President:
Okay.
So you want me to call Gerry and take one
more whack at him?
(jf)
I think it's a
IE.o. 13526, section
ood idea.
1.4(b)(d)
The President:
So this statement they were willing to make about
the IRA, they can't even make that public? ~
SECRET
3ECRE'l'
,
lE.o.
13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
Do you know what I mean?

The President:
language.
(..81
Yes,
I agree with you.
This is very conditional
The President: No, no, I think the IRA may not care if America
withdraws its support, but I think Sinn Fein will be in a lot
worse condition if its friends in Congress lay it all on them.
He may not be able to do anything about it, ma be he even wants
it in some manner. He can't say this,
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
That is the thing.
SECRE'l'
3ECRET
The President:
I agree.
I'll call Adams and do the best I can.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
IE.O.
13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The president:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4( d)

SECRET
IE.O.
13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
SECRE'l'
I E.O: 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
'11---_ _ _ _ _---'
The President: Yes. Even that is silly because they could
always get more if they had any grounds. The radical Irish could
get more. J.-Y
The President:
--t3"I
That is what I think.
The President:
Of course they could tomorrow.
They are being pig-headed.
Yes.
-r-n-
NO, no.
The President:
Okay.

The President:
Right, Bill.
(U)
I'll see what I can do.

The President:
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
(U)
Many thanks.
Goodbye.
(U)
Goodbye.
(U)
(U)
3ECRET
THE WHITE HOUSE
/. C3,
WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers:
Frank Jarosinski, Deana
Sutliff, Miguel Aguilo, RO'ger Merletti, Don
Gentile and Richard Norland
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Februa~y 8, 2000, 11:15 to 11:42 a.m. EST

Oval Office
Hello.

The President:
Hi Bill.
Hi Tony.

The President:
(U)
(U)
(U)
How are you doing?
I'm all right.
(U)
I'm having a pretty good time.
(U)
You just presented the budget.
The President:
I did it yesterday.
the Senate in New York.
(U)
interesting.
(U)
(U)
Hillary just declared for
Your presidential race is very
The President: Yes, it is.

I can't tell where it's going yet.
It's got a few turns left in the road. We have got to see if
Bush has anything inside him to pull himself back up and respond
to McCain. ~
Al seems to be running pretty well.
-SEO,Er
Reason: 1.5(d)
Declassify On: - 2/9/10 _
~.
.'
:'"'~:~--.".~-
~~;~~' ~:R1\RY
_-------~
. .......
PHOTOCOPY
"<::~'t~_~~'_'~.-"'-':-"~- .,.-:;=;,_.-:j.;.::..;...... -'~--':;_-, __ ~_J.:-',--:-~:.
)1
SECRET
The President:
He is doing fine.

I think the State of the Union stuff and
what I have read about the budget seems very interesting indeed.
Well, I'm glad you're having a good time.
(U)
The President:
Yeah.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: Well, let me tell

is where you can help me a bit.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
EC~ET
ou about mine.
Here
".
;":'~'-'
'.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President: What's your reaction to the argument that they

ought to be given more time since there was a such a delay in
setting up the government? .kf5}
SECRET
~.
SECRE'l'
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Of course I do.
I'm just trying to think about
how to keep this thing together.
JZI
The President:
Let me ask you something. Do you think any
argument they use is looking for a pretext for doing this and
they wanted to make it clear they did not support such things
and wanted to do it partly because of the terrorist incident in
the north? \
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
E.O.13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
2iECR'l'
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President: Well, did Adams give you any -kind of opening
when you asked for an act of reconciliation? ~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Let me ask you, you and Bertie have agreed on
~hat you've asked Adams to do? ~
The President:
to Trimble?
vn
Right.
y()
And if he does it, do you think you can sell it
3ECRE'f
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Trimble is coming over here in a couple of days
-- a week or 10 days, but it will be done by then. ~
Prime Minister Blair: Yeah it will be done by then.
need is a two-week breathing space. ~
The President:
you two weeks?
What we
Exactly what do you think it will take to get
+&t-
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President: Okay. I'll get in touch with Gerry and Martin
and see what we can do.
I'll let you know.
(S)
I'm sorry to lay this on you.
The President:
No, no.
I think about this more than anything
else, besides the screw-ups in the Middle East. Let me ask you
3ECRE''
BECRE':F
something on a much more mundane issue. Yesterday, I met with

some cabinet members and Rodney Slater said we put some more
ideas down to resolve the airport dispute we have with British
Airways, USAIR and American Airlines. Would you take another
look at that and see if we can get it done?
~
I'm not completely familiar with that.
(C)
The President:
I know you're up to your ears in other things
but we've been dealing with this for years and it's sort of a
big deal here. Rodney told me he put some more stuff down on
the table.
In a political season, it would be big over here to
_ get this open sore resolved.
If you could have somebody take a
look at it.
I have never seen him more agitated about anything.
He is just trying to get it resolved. ~
The President:
Sure, I will have a look.
Okay, I will get on this.
How is mother doing?
(U)

Fine. She's getting pretty large.
you going to come oV,er incidentally?
(U)
Are
The President: Let me tell you what we are trying to work out.
You want me to come, don't you? -fC+Prime Minister Blair:
proper talk with you.
I'm desperate to sit down and have a

-+G-l-
The President: I'm trying to figure out what the best time is
because we have to do this Third Way thing in Germany and there
might be time to run to Russia. We're trying to resolve
bilateral issues with Russia and kind of get this Chechnya thing
resolved.
Putin has enormous potential, I think.
I think he's
very smart and thoughtful.
I think we can do a lot of good with
him.
I'm trying to figure how to do all these things and come
to London because Cherie's time is coming close.
I want to come
when it would cause you the least problems and try to leave open
the option, if you need me to, to go to Ireland.
I want to come
and do you the most good.
()
It's a good idea in any sort of
circumstances. They would be delighted to see you. Well,
(U)
Cherie is due on May 20.
I mean, anytime is good.
BECKE'!'
SECI'tc';r
The President: Obviously, I hav~ to leave you a couple of weeks

on the front.
If we decided to do it, afterward, how much time
do you need for paternity leave?
(U)
I don't know that I would need much time,
more than a ~eek, on either end of it. We'd love for you to
come over and there is lots to discuss.
(U)
The President:
Fathers get that in Britain.
(U)
I don't know if I'll do too much of it.
(U)
The President:
I just don't want to screw it up.

and see them.
(U)
(U)
It would be quite nice for you to come
The President:
I would love to come afterwards and get to see
the baby. Let me see what I can do.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: Okay Bill, we will be in touch.
love to see you come over.
(U)
The President:
Okay, see you soon.
Bye.
(U)
(U)
End of Conversation
SECRE'1'
I would
SFeRET
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

Telcon with
SUBJECT:
B~itish
(U)
The President
PARTICIPANTS:
Notetakers: Doug Bayley, Robin Rickard, Don

Cheramie, Roger Merletti, Don Gentile and
Dick Norland
February 11, 2000, 12:38 - 12:49 p.m. EST
Oval Office
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Hello.

The President:
Hey.

The President:
(U)
Bill.
(U)
(U)
How are you doing?
I'm okay.
(U)
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: Bill, sorry to trouble you again but I

thought I would bring you up to date with what .has happened.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
3ECRE'f
Yes.
Y0
pCRE'l'
.1
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
What about Trimble?
Where is he on this?
The President:
f5t-
But if you haven't announced it, can't you ...
The President:
I think you ought to go to Trimble and try to
work it out. ~
The President:
SECRE'P
Can't you go to Trimble today?
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
3ECRE'f'
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
If you can get Trimble to say okay...
The President:
If we could get to him today you could have this
all resolved by Monday.
(.,g-)
~I________________________________~
The President: We can't run the risk of this thing unraveling

over the weekend just because of the timing of it. ~
The President:
If we don't have some move by you and Trimble
today or tomorrow, this thing could unravel over the weekend.
How much does Trimble know about this?
~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
What I'm suggesting is we tell him what they
said and get him to make some noise in tomorrow's papers saying,
you know, there is movement here, something where he can reach
out to them.
Or call Adams or something. You need them to
connect before they go to bed tonight.
I just think that
something has to be done before the papers corne out and all hell
breaks loose...
t&}
3:ECr<:EI
Okay.
~ECRE'f
1 E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)

The President:
... at least the IRA got off their backsides and
did something half reasonable.
u()
I
The President: Yes, I think to make that really work we need
some sort of signal from Trimble that he believes this is all
possible. .J...91
The President: I agree, but my problem is that if he waits

until next week ...
k&r
Prime Minister Blair: ~I______________________________~
The President:
.keI
I don't want this thing to get away from you .

The President: If you could get it tonight that would be
wonderful.
I know it is a pain in the rear end, but I'm scared
that if this thing drifts for three days ... yn
The President: I agree with that, but if Trimble can give them
an excuse to do that it would be great. ~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
SECRET
oSgCRgT
The President: We will go to work on our side. Have someone

call us to let us know what Trimble said. We need to know what
we are going to say to Adams when we call him. ~
Okay, thanks Bill.
The President:
Goodbye.
Fine.
(U)
End of Conversation
SECRi;T
Bye.
(U)
CONFIDENTIAL
/1<6 S
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:
Telcon with Prime Minister Blair (U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Deana sutliff,
Frank Jarosinski, Sean Tarver, Don Gentile
. DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
March 6, 2000, 12:56 - 1:04 p.m. EST

Oval Office
Hello, Tony.

The President:
(U)
Hello, Bill, how are you?
Hi, Tony.
(U)
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: Look, Bill, I've got to do this live

television thing in five minutes?
(U)
The President:
Okay,
just talk.

The President:
Yes.
(U)
(U)

The President: Let me tell you what I told Schroeder this
morning.
I talked to him for forty minutes this morning. The
CONFIDEN'fIAL
Classified by:
Reason: 1.5(d)
Declassify On:,
Robert A. Bradtke
CONFIDENTIAL
I E-O. 13526, section 1.4( d)
The President:
IE-O. 13526, section
1.4(b)(d) I
I E-O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
This is a really important job.
jQ1
The President:
It is really important.
It's not just
political.
You need to talk to him. )Q1
The President:
Yes.
He's in that frame of mind, is he?
(U)
IE-O. 13526, section
L4(b)(d) I
The President:
There are a couple of Germans who are qualified,
but he can't get them to accept the job.
~
Yes.
(U)
The President: Absolutely. I can't afford to be the skunk at

the garden party.
I have got to have some help. jQf
conFI DEH'f' IAL
rk~"'-~-ft'7'-';'::' ".~'-'~"-'~'-~"-;;,
;;~~~~~LIBRA~Y PHO~~CO~YJ' .
~'~""-::;''-:~_;_:_J:'':-~ -:;-o,J. .. :- -.~~_ o~_ -,_-;:...-~ ___ ,,-'-/.':,.
.COHFIDEN'l'IAL
IE.G. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I
The President: He is going to call you. He is calling

Kwasniewski first.
I told him "this is going to look bad for
you.
It can't look like you and I made a deal and gagged Europe
and infuriated all of the developing countries." ~

The President:
Yes.
(U)
The President:
I

check with you. JQ1
E.G. 13526, section 1.4(d)
I will say that to him.
I just wanted to
The President:
I E.G. 13526, section 1.4(d)

The President:
CONTI DElif'l'IAL
Go.
Look, Bill, I've got to go.
(U)
We also need to talk about Kosovo.
ket
-COHFIDEN'FIhL
Prime Minister Blair: We need to talk about Kosovo and we need

to talk about Northern Ireland as well.
+er
The President:
Call me in the next couple of days.

The President:
Okay, Bill.
Good Bye.
(U)
(U)
Good Bye.
(U)
End of Conversation
COHFIDE11!Il'tL
SECRE'l'

E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)
1820

DECLASSIFICATION DATE: October 14,2015
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:

united Kingdom
(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
("
Notetakers: Don Gentile, Joel Ehrendreich,

Deana Sutliff, Frank Jarosinski, Dick Norland
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
March 14, 2000, 1:05-1:29 p.m. EST

The Residence
Hello.

The President:
(U)
Hi, Bill.
(U)
Can we talk about Kosovo a little bit?
Yes, sure.
feI
The President:
Let me give you my thoughts. We've got violence
everyday, KFOR attrition, UN operations too slow, and;:.-w.:..:..:::e'--'-"ro..:e"--_ _---.
corning up on spring which is a most dangerous time.
I KO. 13526, section l.4(d) I

Basically, you and I gave it a lot of highlevel attention during the air campaign. NOW, you're worried
about elections, I'm worried about elections and the Middle East.
Somehow, we have got to get this operation on a sounder footing
before Milosevic challenges us. ~)
I think three things have to be done.
We have the biggest stake
in this because we believed in it. You'll be around after I'm
gone and this will come back and bite you in the behind.
First
of all, we've got to make sure KFOR has enough forces to counter
the threat and then we've got to make sure the UN gets funding to
do the job and then get enough police there to take pressure off
KFOR. KFOR is getting weaker when it should be getting stronger.
We have to look at our pledged force levels and have a smooth
transition when the new KFOR commander takes over.
If not, I
think Milosevic, who seems to be getting stronger in Serbia, will
take it as a sign of weakness and then we'll be back in conflict.
3ECl3:E!
Classified by:
Robert A. Bradtke
Reason:
1.S(d)
i
Declassify on;
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
rn!e
Ls--e-c-o-n-d~t~h~i-n-g--~i-s~t'h-a-t~-w-e~h-a-v--e~t-o--r-e-d'-o-u'b~l~e--o--u-r--e-f~f-o-r~t-s--w-l~'~t~h~the
Kosovar Albanians. We sent the two best people with connections

there this week to deliver that message. Then, we've got to send
We're sending more police this month, from 490 to.
Blair:
The President: That's good. Let's talk about DNMIK. They are
crippled by the funding shortage. I'm trying to do what we can
to increase our contributions to improve the infrastructure, and
I hope you can give some sort of concrete pledge as well.
If you
and I won't do it, nobody will. We can give up to $500 million
if other people kick in some money. I've got Republicans in the
Senate trying to pass some bill saying that we can't give more
money until the Europeans do. We need some help. We have given
out 100 percent of the money we promised to give but I think the
ED has only given 40 percent of what was committed. Je1
The President: At some

with this Kosovo status
mine together and get a
deal
ind of muscle this up

a bit.
The President:
Yes. I
And a lot more money.
Yes.
' - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - '
glbCRE'I'
SECRE'f
"E.O.
The President:
Let me ask you.
13526, section 1.4(d) I J
h' k
J
I
I t In the
trick is and the problem is that authority is too dispersed.
Is
there any way we can get Kofi to somehow empower them? The
problem is that Kouchner works for the UN, KFOR is a UN force,
and we're here not wanting to get in the way, but not wanting to
I
13526, section 1.4(d)
~
s_c__
r_e_w__u_p_.__I ________________________________________________
E.O.
L..
Prime Minis
The President:
I think the other. You know, my sense is the
Stability Pact, because you're putting up the money, would be no
problem there.
What is Kouchner's relationship with the French?
If they tell him what to do, will he do it? ~
I think so, yes.
The President:
I agree with that. We will work on it from our
side and can talk about it.
I just think this is so important.
I think this is part of the calls you'll make next week in
Lisbon. We need to have our people gaming out what we will or
won't do if Milosevic sends people into the northern part of
Kosovo allegedly to protect the Serbs. What are we going to do
if there is a real battle in southern Serbia and what are we
going to do about Montenegro if he invades them?
(~
SECRET
Absolutely. Okay. I agree.
The President: Everyone of them is

wants to do anything, including us.
have an aggressive response in these
not only minimize these problems but
anything out of line in Montenegro.
a tough problem. No one

On the other hand, if we
other three areas early, we
also minimize him doing
J..&t

I agree.
I believe that the window of
opportunity is starting to close.
J.Zl
The President:
I real 1
like this idea.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

The President:
Did you have a good trip to Russia?
it was very good. J1
The press on
The President:

The President:
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
The President:
I don't know.
(S)
Absolutel.
What does he think about Chechnya?
J,.21
The President:
It's a really rough situation over there and in a"
lot of Central Asian countries bordering there.
It was so
typically Russian ham-handed. -HHPrime Minister Blair:
SECREr
,3ECRE'I'

The President: We had a good joint statement on the Genome
project -- thank you for that. Go see the Queen.
(U)
Okay, Bill.
All the best.
(U)
SJ;:CRET
See you
soon~
3ECP.'f'
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASH I NGTON

SUBJECT:
Telcon with Prime Minister Blair of The

United Kingdom
(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Deana Sutliff, Jenny McGee,
Miguel Aguila, Don Gentile, Rob Hargis and
Richard Norland
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
April 19, 2000, 1:05-1:40 p.m. EDT

Oval Office

The President:
Hello.
(U)
Hello, Wdad," how are you doing?
I am preparing.
(U)
(U)
The President: You know, after January I'm available for

babysitting duties.
(U)
The President: You said you wanted to continue my work with the
Third Way, and this is it: helping Blair balance work and
family.
(U)
I could do with a bit of help, I tell you.
Cherie is in great form but just keeps getting bigger and bigger.
I tell you, just the thought and I feel as if my life's about to
begin again.
(U)
The President:
It is going to be interesting. Given the way the
world is changing, it'll be a completely different childhood than'
the one your others had. Anyway, it is a great thing.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: Right, Bill, we'll put you down on the
babysitting list now, mate.
(U)
The President:
3ECRE'f'
Reason:
1.5(ct)
Declassify on;,
You've got a deal.
(U)
Sl!;CRl!;'f

LIF_r_l_'__
m e __M_i_n_i_s_t_e__r __B_l_a_i_r__
: ________________________________________
The President: Yes, I really want to hear about that.
to see him. ~
~~
I'm going
The President: We have a lot to discuss. I agree with that. I

think we'll get more out of this guy since he just started his
term and if he thinks we're trying to help him achieve his
obj ecti ves.
I..e:J
SECRE'P
That's right.
IE.O.
fjECRE'f
13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I think to get there we have to somehow
demonstrate, number one, that it is only useful as a defense,
even assuming it works and assuming it meets the criteria I set
out. Basically it's a defense against people who can lob a few
missiles at you rather than a lot. We need to show that those
cooperating in the nonproliferation movement are actually
benefiting, and I need to keep working on it. There's got to be
a way to do that.
I think there is a way to make sure all the
countries that are cooperating on this do benefit.
I need to
keep working on it . .J.8l

The President:
I know.
I used to have these arguments with
Yeltsin all the time when we were looking at expanding NATO.
I
asked him once, ~Do you really believe that if we got a foothold
in Poland we would bomb western Russia?" He said, ~No, I don't,
but there are a lot of old ladies out in the country who do." He
was dead serious.
I think it's important to understand their
mentality on this.
They are still affected by Napoleon, Hitler,
and the way the Cold War .came to end, and about the way the
SECRE'l?
SECRET
Soviet Empire collapsed.

Yeltsin was much more enthusiastic
about this in some ways than his progressive successors.
He
wound up mortally hating communism, but still believing in Mother
Russia. All these guys do, and we've got to be sensitive about
that. -++.
But we can't walk away from something that can keep a lot of usalive.
I want to talk to you about it in greater detail, maybe
before I go to see him. We can't get this done without serious
adverse implications unless both Russia and Europe believe this
can be something that benefits all of us.
Since it's a defense
system, I'm committed to that.
I think there might be some way
to plug him into that.
(8)
I am still formulating my ideas on it, but let's talk one more
time.
Let's do that first before my meeting with him.
I'll
really read up on it.
I will talk to you about it one more time
before I leave. ~
Another thing I was going to say about the tax system is that
they have to keep working on it. Before I became president, I
was there in 1990 when Boris Yeltsin was elected president when
it was still nominally the Soviet Union and then he got reelected head of the whole deal.
I knew a guy who ran a
McDonald's restaurant there, and we were talking about this tax
problem.
He said ~Look, by the time we pay our taxes -- federal,
local, etc. -- our effective tax rate is 85 percent.
Because
it's McDonalds, I can still end up making a hell of a lot of
money here.
However, my nominal Russian competitor pays an
effective tax rate of 5 percent. But there's almost no other
kind of economic activity you can imagine, except maybe for the
energy sector, that can sustain that kind of tax burden."
1%
He wasn't pleading for help.
I was just a governor at the time.
But later, after I was President, we talked again.
If they want
to get a huge amount of foreign investment, they need to
rationalize their tax system and treat everybody the same.
Otherwise, they are never going to be competitive. That is
essentially the problem with the tax system and their regulatory
problems. J..e-r
I think all the internal energy problems they've got have caused
and cost untold billions of dollars of investment.
Their whole
view of energy is caught up in the notion of sovereignty, and
we've had trouble cracking that nut. Al Gore couldn't move
Chernomyrdin very far on that stuff, but I still think they've
got just staggering potential.
1Gr
The other thing I think would be helpful to do without being
patronizing is to do something about their health system.
SECRET
5ECREl'
They're the only country in the world where their life expectancy
is declining because of unsanitary conditions, not because of
doctors~
They still have a fairly large number of good doctors
over there.
It's so embarrassing that it's difficult to talk
about.
I'm convinced it's one of the things that really
demoralizes the country. ~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
lair:
I agree.
The President:
I might be completely wrong, but my gut tells me
he could do wonders with his popularity if he could make some
progress on the health care problem.
~
The President:
I'm sure you're right.
Yes, God, yes.
SECRE'f
IE.O.
13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
SECRET
The President:
Let me ask you this.
Is there any way to link
the d~comm~ssioning with the Good Friday accord in a concrete way
- that doesn't stick them on the date? Are there any up-front
confidence building measures they can take, short of a bonfire,
which they still see~ reluctant to do?
~
The President:
We did something like that in Bosnia, too.

The President:
un
Exactly. 1
Are they going to do it?
+&T-

SECRET
aECRET
The President: Well, I'm ready to do it. Do you think that

Gerry and Martin realize that after this last vote, Trimble can't
=-~::i.1.L.!....lI...l...l.l.E....-LL-.l..,Lll:!.),c,don' t do something more?
.+etPrime Minister Blair:
The President: Absolutely. Not only that, I just can't conceive

how anybodY thinks this thing could go forward without the
- unionists. Gerry Adams told me in private he thought there was
no way forward without Trimble. They've got to know. Je1
The President: It's inconceivable. The whole premise of the

Good Friday Accord was consent. It's a fraud if you get rid of
them. )Z1
L-____________________________________- - The President:
What are they going to give back?
The President:
3ECRE'I'
Really?
;e1
'SECRET
IE.a. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I

ILT_h_e_pr_e_Sl_'d_en_t_:I___
~========================~~
I
The President:
You can't make that dog hunt.
Prime- Minister Blair:
JQ1
+G+-
It isn't realistic.
The President:
I think you're onto some good ideas. We'll keep
talking to them. We have our channels open and when you want me
to do something, I will. I
~~______~__~____~__~~~~____~__~~__~~~~~Ithe same
thing may be happening in Northern Ireland.

It might not happen
again, there is so much prosperity, but it's one hell of a gamble
to take over basically, what are you going to do with a few arms?
You're not asking them to give them all up right now and they can
always replace what they lose. They can always go back.
It's so
bizarre.
Jj::1'
13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
IE.a.
It is.
The President:
I know you offered to meet with the IRA and they
said no. My only other suggestion is whether you or someone on
your behalf could open a channel of communication with others in
Sinn Fein/IRA besides.
In a way, at some point, it gets hard for
the leadership to make a case, and I have the feeling that the
rank and file read the newspapers and are sophisticated on one
level but in the absence of personally engaging with someone who
can explain what's going on out there, it's pretty tough.
I know
I have told you before, I think a lot of these guys can't imagine
how their lives are going to be different if this thing works
out.
I don't know how to do it, and I don't know if I can help
you, but that's the only suggestion I have.
It's a pretty narrow
funnel you're pouring all this in, and Gerry and Martin have a
heavy load.
Some may think, well, Martin is the Minister of
Education and Martin has a nice life, what/s in it for us? Maybe
3ECRE'f
'", "_
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;/J,?~.i" ~ .. - -~---'-~-'-:""\,
,\
{:,~,.. ~~:~.N LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY j;

{?,.~.;.. -""'-:':~;---. ~~\ --=',' -.~.~~ - - :.--~..:;-'" ---,,::-. -<': <".:"'-
SECRET
IE.O. 13526, section
9
1.4(b)(d) I
there's nothing to this, but I think you should keep thinking

about this. .+-e1
L_p_r_i_m_e__M_1_"n
__i_s_t_e_r__B_l_a__i_r_:_____________________________________________
The President: If I had your blessing, I'd be happy to do it. I

don't know if they~w~OU~l~d~d~O~i~t~-=-==i=f==t=h~e~y~w~o~U=l=d=-=t=a=l~k~t=o~a=n~__~
American either. I
ere 1S a uge gap, you
The President: Give some thought to it. I'll have our people
talk to your people about how to establish some sort of dialog
through a British or American contact and talk these things
through and give some thought to what this will be like -- what
are they going to do with their lives, how will it be different?
I may be overstating this, but it strikes me that if we just
could get them to think about how their lives would be different
if this worked out. I now believe Gerry and Martin want this to
work. But, if they brought it to a vote and jammed the vote and
caused half of them to bolt to some other faction -- we don't
want that. It's worth some leakage, but not much. It's easy for
me to say this, because I don't have to deal with the aftermath
of the bombs, but you would be right back in the soup. -8?r
The President:
Yes.
Jf
10
8ECRE1'
!E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) !
The President:
You know how badly I want this to work.
I really
think it's important. You have a good economy and good social
reform. And, if you could get a breakthrough here, I think you
would secure your place and your party's place for a long time to
come. You could help New Labor in ways we can't even evaluate.
I just want to do whatever I can for you before I have to leave
here.
~
When are we going to see you?
y1
The P~esident:
I'll see you for sure in Berlin. 1'd like to
come to the UK and to Ireland before I go, but I want to be
flexible on timing.
I want to come see you when I can do the
mos t good.
JZI
/J
L-__________________- - - - - -
The President:
I've got a lot of things to talk to you about.
The main thing I don't want to do is something harmful to the
peace process, and it's not too good for me to look like I'm
taking a sentimental journey. I want to come and do something .
.....(..Gt""
I
!E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) !
The President: God if you could do that, that'd be great. Let

me know when you want us to weigh in the next couple of weeks.
y(
How is Hillary?
(U)
The President: She's doing well. I think she's going to win!

She is starting to sound like a real politician. She's always
been a good speaker, but now she's got to where she can get up
and give a real political speech and sound like a politician.
I'm beginning to sound like a meandering old man.
(U)
well, too? ~
Not quite.
And Al?
He's doing pretty
The President: God, yes. He's doing much better. I expect him
to win. We have a big problem here. The cultural aversion of
white, married, Protestants to voting Democratic is a real
3gCRE'P
SECRET
11
problem -- and one we have to overcome. Bush is a skilled

politician, but he is not ready to be president, maybe not ever,
certainly not now. But they want it real bad and they've got
lots of money and lots of media access and they are not freshly
discredited. And in this level of economic performance some tend
to believe it's automatic and nobody's going to screw it up, a
lot of people expect it -- think it is automatic.
It is going to
take a lot of discipline -- but I think Al will win. God knows
I'm doing everything I can to get it done without being
counter roductive. )R1
.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d,
The President: Whew. Well, yes. We're making a little progress

on the Africa trade bill.
(gap) I may run over to Nigeria in a
few months.
(,e1
I
The President:
But better gay than sad.

\
The President:
But I think we've given a lot of evidence.
\L---=~====~-------------r~~~~~
The President:
If you are, you've;got a hell of a cover-up!
are doing the best you can do. ~
The President:
Okay, Bill.
Thank you, man.
Bye.
(U)
(U)
All the best.
(U)
8CCRC'P
You
SECRET

E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
(U)
Notetakers: Joel Ehrendreich, Jenny McGee,

Miguel Aguilo, and Richard Norland
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE.:
May 4, 2000, 6:26-6:34 p.m. EDT

Columbus, Ohio

The President:
Hello.
Hello, Tony.

me.
Hi.
(U)
(U)
Thanks for callin
IE.D. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I
The President:
Sounds like what we did in Bosnia.
Prime Minister Blair: .. [gap]
SECREi'
Reason: 1.5d
Declassify on: i
SECRET
The President:
I heard it all. It sounded good to me.
I like
this idea of third-party verification. That way the IRA keeps
the nominal title to their weapons, so they didn't decommission,
but they did. ~)
Exactly.
kB1
I like it.
If the IRA will take it, it's a good
put the government back up as soon as
The President:
How about "Formerly Royal Police Service?"
s,.e1
The President:
You don't want me to call Gerry or Martin now?
The President:
That's good.
ft
There we are.
We're trying our best.
The President: Well, I like this very much.

I always thought
the only way around this conundrum was something like secure
SECRET
storage with third-party verification.

I think that's about the
best we can do right now.
It is going to come down to whether
both believe it would be a crying shame to let May come and go
and basical~y junk the Good Friday Accord.
~

The President: You'll find a way, and I'll be glad to call them.
We've kept in touch with their people. You've got a really good
proposal. -I don't see how you could make it better than it is.
f-Q1
The President:
lE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I
Anything else?
No.
(U)
I will keep in close touch, if I may.
).QY
The President: You can call me in the middle of the night if you
want, if this thing gets hot. You know I care deeply about it.
I will do what I can. ~
.Prime Minister Blair:
If you don't mind, I may have to do that.
The President:
bye.
(U)
Okay, I'm eagerly looking forward to it.
Okay.
(U)
SECRET
Okay,
CONFIJ;lENl'f'IAL
3363
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON
MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE
~ONVERSATION
SUBJECT:
PARTLCIPANTS:
The President
(U)
Notetakers: Deana Sutliff, Frank Jarosinski,

Joel Ehrendreich, Matthew Sibley, Don
Gentile, Richard Norland
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
May 15, 2000, 5:20 - 5:34 p.m. EDT

The Residence

The President:
Hey, Tony.

The President:
Sellers movie.
Hello.
(U)
Hi, Bill.
I'm great.
(U)
(U)
How are you doing?
(U)
I'm watching the end of an old Peter
Which one?
(U)
The President:
I can't tell.
I've only seen about five minutes.
But Herbert Long just disappeared along with a castle.
(U)
The President:
Pink Panther, I think.
I think it's the second one.
(U)
It's funny as hell.
(U)
He was so funny, Peter Sellers.
Anyway ...
(U)
The President:
I just wanted to put you in good humor since
you're dealing with Northern Ireland.
(U)
I just wanted to bring you up to date.

CONFIDEN'fIAL
Reason: 1. 5d'
Declassify on
CONFIDEHTlhL
The President:
What does your legislation say right now?
The President:
When do you have to move on this?
+G+-
The President: Weren't they saying before -- when you and I were
talking, I had a copy of the other legislation -- weren't they
claiming that they ... ~

L - - -_ _ _ _
----~
The President: But weren't the republicans saying if you did

that, unionists would just say that all time, and, therefore, the
Catholics wouldn't join? ;e1
CON"FIDENTIAL
CONFIDg~nIAL

~
L-~_ _-------------~
The President:
But the real fact is you would take it off.
Jer
The President: Let me see what I can do.

I'll mull it over a
bit. Let me ask you this. What do you think should be done in
Sierra Leone? Your guys have done a good job there. .Jret
The President: We're talking about it here. My take on this is

that we could strengthen the UN hand if the Nigerians go in, and
you and whoever can stay in the coastal areas and the city, but
you don't want to be subjected to being picked off in those
jungles by those crazy people. They've got all these young kids
they've brutalized, hopped up on drugs.
I think if we can defeat
that kind of thing, it would be a good thing to do. ~
CONFIDEH1'IAL
CONFIDENTIAL
The President:
Yes.
jQ1
The President:
Yes, we're taking them in.
fer
The President:
I think you're doing fine.
I'm just worried
about whether we're doing enough and how to do it.
I think
having you there and securing the airport is about what you
should be doing. You don't have enough people to venture out,
and I would hate to see you go out and be shot into fodder.
I
think we need more troops. They will be scared if the Nigerians
come in there in full force and the Indians are willing to do so.
I may want to call you again if you think there is something else
we should do.
Let me know if we can hel . ou. You've done a
good thing.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

The President:
I agree with that. You keep chewing on that.
I'll get back to you on that and on the Irish thing.
~
\E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) \
CONPIDEIJ'PIAL
CONFIDENTIAL
,.=p",r=i=m=e==M=~=n=~='s=t~e=r=B=l=a=i=r:..::~_O:...:k..::.:a::::y,-,~B::..~::..1::..::..1.:..J'
The President: It's too bad the unionists won't let you kick the
can down the road a bit. If you could, the issue would become
relatively less important to both sides once things are up and
running. ~
The President:
How's mama Cherie doing?
Prim~ Minister Blair:

producing.
(U)
The President:

Fine.
(U)
She's about a week away from
Is she in a bad humor about being big?
She's okay.
(U)
She's been in court today.
(U)
The President:
Good!
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: She's going to court to take on the

government over parental leave. Don't even talk to me about it.
She is great, but she could produce at any time.
(U)
The President:
That's great.

The President:
Thanks.
Alright, I'll see you soon.
Okay, Bill.
Bye.
(u).
(U)
CONFIDEN'1'IAL
(U)
CONPIDEN'f'IAL
1.40
THE: WHITE HOUSE

WAS H I N,GTO N
...r
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SUBJECT:

United Kingdom (U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers:
DATE, TIME
Hi, Bill.

The President:
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Amy Swarm and Sean Tarver
May 27, 2000, 12:27-12:44 p.m. EDT

The Residence
AND PLACE:
Hey.
..::en
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(U)
Congratulations!
What a good day.
Yes, it was good, but tight.
en
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The President: Trimble was ri ht. He had to 0 back to

those crazies in his party. ~1~E~.=O=.=1=35=2=6=,=s=ec=t=io=n=1=.4=(=d=)~~~~~~
Yes.
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The President: Yes.

I talked to Adams this morning. He is a
little bit peeved about Trimble talking about house-training him,
but, I said, "Oh hell, it's part of the deal to get the
government back up."
I told him, "Look Gerry, I will support
you. You've got to get the Patten thing, but you also have to do
those CBMs."
(.e1'
Yes. /
'-----------~-----CONPIDEN'f'IAL
Reason: 1.5 (d:l
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CONFIDEN'PIAL

The President:
I think that is exactly what the republicans are
thinking, so you have go to talk to them. There is no question
they will completely, once they move forward with their CBM, cut
the ground from under the "no" unionists.
(.e-r
"he President:
How's fatherhood coming?
.,me Minister Blair:
It's different.
(U)
(U)
The President: You're not coming to Berlin?

to be on family leave.
(U)
Are you still going
I really wanted to come,

Prime Minister Blair: It's difficult.
but it is difficult to leave Cherie home alone on weekends
without anyone.
(U)
The President:
I think that is the right thing.

to Russia?
(U)
(U)
It should be a good do and then you go on
I guess you saw

The President: Yes. What I am trying to do.
the sort of crazy speech Bush gave last week. . .(..G1Prime Minister Blair:
Yes, I did.
The President:
[gap]
He didn't promise to unilaterally reduce
below START III levels. He just promised to cut them below START
CONFIDENTIAL
CONP'IDEM'fIAL
II levels. Hell, I've already done that. This is just crazy.

am terrified these guys will get in and say Reagan was right
about Star Wars. And then you'll get the Chinese building a
thousand weapons, after all the work I did passing China
Permanent Normal Trade Relations. ~
Congratulations, that was brilliant.
(91
The President:
It was a great thing, but too hard. The only
problem we have in this country is that our business community
always kills legislation. Anyway, I am just so afraid that all
the benefits will be squandered if Bush wins the elections.
I
still think we have a 50 percent or better chance to win.
~
Quite close, isn't it?
The President:
It shouldn't be. White married'Protestants don't
think they should be voting for Democrats, partly because of the
gun issue that Al and I are taking on. All the specifics people
agree with. [gap] it is crazy. You can take a poll about
loopholes.
Sixty-five percent to 30 percent say yes, but even in
New York where it is more liberal than the rest of the country,
if Hillary were endorsed by this group that did the Million Mom
March, it's like 40 to 40 percent. A lot of the country likes it
when we are in, but they have a hard time admitting it. My job
approval was like 65 percent. Bush is really smart. The
campaign against McCain was the most vicious in modern memory.
He has these right wing foot soldiers do his dirty work, so he
can be nice.
I think Al had not the best couple of months, but
now he is in good form and doing well. And we have the record
and the people.
I think he'll do fine in debates, but I still
think he has a better than 50 percent chance of winning this
thing.
If he doesn't, then you will have to do a lot of heavy
lifting.
I think Al is sort of where I am on this stuff. Of
course, if Bush wins, whatever I do with Putin, they can reverse.
If we just came out and said we are not going to do this now and
we are not going to do it until we have technology everybody buys
into and believes in, but we have to do research -- if I did
that, all I would do is make Al vulnerable. There is an article
by Hugo somebody in one of your papers, saying he thought we were
nuts. ....(.et"
The President:
Hugo Young?
j1
Did you see the piece?
yn
No, but I had it summarized for me.
CONFIDEN'fIAL
The President:
It would be a good thing if national missile
defense worked on a broader basis.
If it gives people the
impression that it would work, people would believe that we could
use the thirig and they would be less likely to attack. But
you've got to figure out if you deploy and if you got beyond the
second phase and it could stop 50 or 60 warheads, what position ..
would that put the Chinese in.
I don't think a lot of people say
let's go full tilt on this thing. The goal ought to be to get
rid of these damn offensive weapons and direct our energies
toward that.
In the meantime, we must not do anything in the
interim to increase the chances these weapons would be used.
j1
Prime- Minister Blair:

The President: The main thing is, the United States should take
a position that we have got to do this in the context of our
larger objectives.
I am working with Al in an effort to preserve
the arms control regime.
If we could do it, it would be good.
The problem I have with the Republican approach is they would
deploy this big Star Wars in the sky system and an adversary can
get under it if they want. ~
L I_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
'=E=.O==.1=3=5=2=6,=s=e=ct=io=n=1=.4=(=b=)(=d=)~I________~
.(.G1-
The President: One thing Republicans say is that nobody believes

we can have bad intentions, but we are the only people who have
ever dropped one of these weapons. My objective is to try and
leave office with the thing in the best possible state in terms
of a decent outcome.
I am trying to do this deal with Putin to
foreclose the possibility of going to any bigger system which
would undermine arms control.
It might not work. We might not
be able to do it. But I still think we are going to win this
thing. We might not.
It might be close.
I always believed Al
is going to win.
I am going to try to make it difficult for Bush
to go off half-cocked on this Star Wars deal. ~
Yes.
Any chance of seeing you?
(~
The President:
I hope so.
I would still like to come over
there. Now that we have the Northern Irelaqd government back up,
maybe I can go by Ireland again.
yeJ

I think it would be good.
I have some
ideas on this stuff.
It would be nice to sit down and talk in
detail.
It would also be nice to see you in Ireland. ~
CONFIDENTIAL
COHFIDENTI."lL
The President:
I didn't want to go until it makes sense all
around in terms of the peace process and your schedule. ~
arranged. J.G-r
Why don't we see what dates could be
The President:
I want to see your baby.
babies, you know.
(U)
I am quite good with
Prime Minister Blair: He is a great guy.

So good. A little
star, really.
And Cherie is doing great. We are going off to
mass now on Saturday night, to try to avoid the media.
If it is
not too mUGh of a hassle, to meet quite soon would be good and we
could use Ireland as the reason and have a proper talk at the
same time. Thanks for all your help again. When do you leave?
+c+The President:
I depart the Uni ted States on Monday.. I have an
EU thing in Portugal, then on to Russia, and then a brief stop in
the Ukraine.
I go to Portugal, Berlin, Russia, Ukraine, and then
home.
(U)
So you leave next week?
(U)
It is a
The President: Yes. All right, tell Cherie hello.
great day for you. The way you keep everybody talking is amazing
to me.
~
Prime Minister Blair: Occasionally it is amazing to me, too.
One day at a time.
~
The President:
All right man.
(U)
All the best.
(Ul
End of Conversation
CONFIDENTIAL
_,_J .
CONFIDENTIAL
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASH INGTON

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PARTICIPANTS:
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The President:
Hello, Tony?

The President:
Hi, Bill.
Where are you?
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now, complete with baby.
(U)
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The President:
Really?
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: Yes, Cherie is coming with me and making

a speech in New York at some lawyer thing, so we have to bring
the baby with us.
(U)
The President:
That's great.
Where are you staying?
(U)
I hope I get to see your baby.
CONFIDENTIAL
CONFIDBlffIAL
The President: Here's the problem we've got.

First of all, I
won't do anything until I see you.
I don't want to jam you in
public. Our guys tell me that Lott .will basically shut down the
Senate and not even do China if we don't do something, and now
our Foreign Sales Corporation plan was rejected.
It is not a
political thing with me.
I am not running for election, and I
don't want to do anything to hurt you, but, on the other hand, I
can't take the risk they will shut the Senate down.
The real
damage will be if they walk away from the China issue.
That is
my p~oblem, We ought to talk tomorrow. We are going to. have
dinner tomorrow, right? ~
Right.
(u)
The President:
Why don't we talk a little and see if there is
any reasonable prospect.
If I could just get either one of
these things resolved.
They are killing me on the FSC and the
other thing.
They know, or at least I know, you tried to help
us on both of these things.
I just can'.t let them shut the
thing down on me. JR1'
L -__________
~------------------------------~/
The President:
There might be.
don't we talk again tomorrow.
Let me talk to our people.
Je1
Why
Okay.
The President: The real problem on the banana issue is a

feeling over here that there is an Anglo-Irish company that is
the main beneficiary of not resolving the issue. That is adding
to the heat.
But the issue isn't a political one for me. We
were able to avoid putting cashmere on the list last time.
You
had those elections in Scotland, and I took a lot of crap the
last time.
It is not a political thing with me, it's just that
I've got to do business with these people for the next six
weeks.
I can't run the risk of having this blamed on me or
being accused of acting on the basis of a personal relationship,
and I can't do anything to hurt Al.
I think he is going to win,
but it is tight as a tick.
(p1
CONFIJ;;BNTIAL
@OHFIDBHTIAL

(gap)
(U)
The President:
So when we tried to run it by them that you were
trying to help us, they said how can that be, this Anglo-Irish
company is the main beneficiary? Normally I do what I want but
Congress has a big oar in the water.
(gap)
Why don't you talk"
to your folks, and I'll talk to you tomorrow.
Maybe it will be
alright to call Lott, what the hell.
This has been dragging on
so long.
(gap) about as long as I can, and I can't run the risk
they would use that as a pretext against something as profoundly
important as China. ~
Okay,
The President:
I think that is quite possible.
I know the heat
they are getting, and I know where it is coming from.
But it
might be helpful, if we could have any indication we could get
that or the FSC thing resolved. Both are hanging out there
feeding on each other. And, in the Senate, it is not totally
confined to the Republicans either.
ye1
I totally understand, okay.~
The President:
Okay, so I get to see your baby?
will see you tomorrow.
(U)
Alright, Bill, all the best.

CONFIDENTIAL
Alright, I
(U)
..
..:
.;- .
SECRET

E.O.13S26, SECTION s.3(b)(3)
DECLASSIFICATION DATE: October ]4, 20]5
TH E WH ITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
l.4L--

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Rob Hargis, Tina Yarmchuk, Kurt
Van der Walde, and Don Cheramie
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE
The President:
October 12, 2000, 9:11 - 9:19 a.m. EDT

Chappaqua, NY
Hello?

The President:
(U)
Hello .Bill?
Hey, Tony.
(U)
(U)

It's a terrible situation.
It's terrible
what happened to your servicemen.
I want to express my
sympathies.
If there is anything I can do, I am glad to.
It
looks like it is spinning out of control.
je1
The President:
I tried for days.
We had two
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
Now, we don't know who blew up our ship.

We know there have been terrorist elements trainin for
something like this.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

Now you have these
SECRET
instabilities working against each other.

t
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

tE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) t
The President:
Let me te
you w at my pans are.
I'm In
New Yor , we Just celebrated our 25 th anniversary. What a
romantic background.
I'm on my way back to the off;Lce.
It will
take about 2 hours.
I will call you back when I get there.
I've tried to put something concrete together for two days.
I '11 get back to you when I get to. Washington. ~
Biarritz.
I'm going off to the EU Council in
tE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) t
The President:
t

it to me.
J.e1
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
If you need anything from us, please pass
The President:
I will.
Right now what we need is a nonjudgmental break. For God's sake, let's get past this and start
talking.
I'll know more later.
~
'Let us know what we can do.
).e1
The President: Hell, in a 100 days you can call me to go to

places like Biarritz to go skiing. God really doesn't want me
to ease my way out. -ter
SECRET
Take care Bill.
(U)
The President:
Bye.
+er
Bye.
End of Conversation
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Robert Hargis, Don Cheramie,
Tina Yarmchuk, Kurt Van der Walde, and Dick
Norland
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
October 13, 2000, 3:36-3:59 p.m. EDT

Oval Office
Hi Tony.
(U)
Hi Bill.
How are you?
(U)
The President: Well, we haven't been sleeping much, but we've

been on the phone for the ast two days. We may be near putting
something together.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)

The President:
for two days now, and I
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4( d)

to work on the
SECRBT
SECREI
3ECRE'f
. SECRET
SECRE'F
IE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b )(d) I
SECRET
i.
The presirjent:Okay.
Good-bye.
Bye.
(U)
(U)
End of Conversation
i3BCRBT
eONFIDEN'fIAL
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASHINGTON

SUBJECT:

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Jenny McGee, Rob Hargis, Dianne
Ruschaupt, Jill Sandler and Dick Norland,
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE
The President:
November 10, 2000, 3:40 - 3:54 p.m. EDT

Army-NaVy Country Club
Hello?

The President:
CU)
Hi, Bill.
(U)
Hi, Tony.' How are you?

brilliantly.
(U)
Fine.
(U)
How are you?
Hillary just did
The Pre.sident:
She did great. And it looks tome like Al' s got
the votes, but we don't know if theY'll get counted. --+er
Well, what's going to happen?
+et
The President:
I don't know. They still have to count
5,000 overseas ballots.
It's a very confusing situation. There
was an illegal ballot in Florida, where they use a punch card
system. The Bush people are trying to bully him.
Some votes
went to Buchanan and there are 19,000 ballots for him that were
disqualified, and they were African-Americans. Usually, you'd
just say "tough," but here you've got a situation where Gore won
the popular vote. He picked up five points in five days and
also pulled out a huge minority vote, I just hope he can pull it
out. Last night we had former Presidents Ford, Bush, Carter, and
Lyndon Johnson's widow, and we all made reassuring sounds to the
public. --tel
CONFIDENtpIAL
Classified by:
Robert A. Bradtke
Reason: 1.5 ($1)
. -"
"."~ __ c~ .~~~~--~"~~
Declassify On:
11~mO~"-"..
.';
!'
';. . INTON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY
-:::.>';~ ~~~;_ ,___ ,""".-~Y;':~'-;::.-)i:;..."':.':"::o-~~,,",- }-----: ,;.~--;
CGUFI8EH'fIAL
Where is public opinion?
The President: Most want it settled but they don't understand

the issue. They do not understand how clearly these votes were
for Gore. They cite Nixon not challenging in Illinois. The
difference is that i f Nixon had won Illinois, he still would not
have won the electoral vote. It's really bogus. Hillary is
doing great, happy as a clam.
I am really proud of her. -+eJ
Prime Minister Blair: Well, Hillary did wonderful. Give her
our love. She was just fantastic during the campaign. She was
so strong and brave.
I thought she was just great.
J,M.
The President:
She was . . Je(

brilliant.
(..et'
Well, Cheri sends her love.
Hillary was
The President: Yeah, she was the "Little Engine That Could."
I
wish you were with me, I'm playing golf. The three guys with me
are on the green right now.
~
Prime Minister Blair: The thing I wanted to say to you was on
Northern Ireland.
I think if you still want and are able to
come over, I think you could playa part in putting this
together. We had a bit of a breakdown, but it should not be
terminal because both sides want this to happen now. There are
certain thin s we have to do and certain thin s the re ublicans
have to do.

Trimble is really getting it done in the government as
the government is working well. ~
The President:
I saw what he said about no North-South
cooperation before they reengage. But the problem now is that
( C)
the IRA can't appear to be caving in to a unionist demand.
CGHPI8ENTIAL
COHFIDEN'fIAL
I think it would be great if you came over, and people

really welcome it.
I had a word with Trimble, and I think
he is keen about it as well.
He is desperate to make this work
and so is McGuinness. We need something new, something
different to come in and sort it out a bit. ~
The President:
What's your thought?
ker
The President:
When do you want me to come?
Sometime in early December.
The President: We are working on this agreement with North

Korea to try to get them to end their missile program, and I
leave this weekend for Vietnam. It sounds weird but it will be
hard for me to take two more trips but I might be able to do
them both. ~
The President:
here? J...e7
Do you want us to leave some of those deportees
CONFIDEN'FIAL
CONFIDEN'fIAL
In the end it would be up to you if you cando this, but I

think it is possible to put together a deal, and you wouldn't
just be visiting, but you would actually be helping to get the
deal done.
)1
The President:
if I can come?
Do you want me to do some work on this and see

~

We can meet the Irish in the next
two or three days to try to get a common position with them, and
we will brief your guys on it.
I can send you a note with the
elements of the deal 'on it. je}
The President:
That would be wonderful.
You know I want to if
I can.
I realiy want to get this m.issile deal in Korea done, it
will make us all a lot safer.
I'll tell Hillary that you
called. .-k1
The President:
CONFIDBN'3'IAL
(U)
He's perfect, just great.
Wonderful.
The Prime Minister:

(U)
The President:
(U)
How is your baby doing?
The Prime Minister:

The President:
Thank you.
(U)
I'll get to work on this.
Bye-bye.
(U)
(U) .
All the best.
COUP IDBNT L"soL
Bye.
(U)
End of Conversation
GONFIDEN'fIAL
CONFIDEN'fIAL
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASH INGTON

SUBJECT:
Telcon with the British Prime Minister Blair

(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Notetakers: Sean Tarver, Frank Jarosinski,
Jill Sandler, Clark Lystra, Dick Norland and
Ian Bowles
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE
The President:
November 23, 2000, 9:10-10:06 a.m. EST

Hello, Tony?

The President:
(U)
Hello, Bill.
(U)
Hey, Tony, How. are you?

you?
(U)
I'm fine.
I'm fine.
(U)
I'm in good form, but how are
The President:. I'm doing great. I had a good trip to Vietnam.

I'm still jet lagged.
I guess it's just old age.
(U)
It was a great visit.
(U)
The President:
It was great for us.and generally for
encouraging a force for change within Vietnam. They tried to
discourage the people, but they came out in droves. Sixty
percent of the country is under thirty years old, so they are
all kids. Most of them are thinking about tomorrow and there
are not a lot of elderly people. The Chairman of the party in
Saigon was talking. up private sector activity -- he sounded like
the mayor of a big mid-western city.
It was like a chamber of
commerce speech. ~
CONFIDENTIAL
That's good.
.CONFIDEN1'IAL
The President:
On the other side, the General Secretary said
first we have to get what happened in the war straight. He said
I'm glad you were against it. Your visit has helped us a lot.
Our Ambassador, Pete Peterson, was in the Hanoi Hilton for six
years.
I said we were debating the nature of the conflict, but .
let's get one thing straight: we were not friends.
Now ~hat
you have a united country, we are still having the same debate
about how much of these things are eternal questions and how you
have to join the debate. )e}
returned to.?
(J27
It looks fascinating -- but what have you .
The President: Between you and me, here's the problem. We

always knew this could happen where someone could win the
popular vote but lose the electoral college. You have electoral
votes that correspond to representation in the House and then
you get two more for your Senators, so it gives more influence
to smaller states. The other argument in the old days was that
we didn't have the telegraph, so we needed honest people to come
and say how the people voted.and now that is obviously
unnecessary.
This happened only twice before where nobody could
get a majority.
In 1876 and 1888 we had a case where the winner
of the popular vote lost the electoral college.
In both times,
the results were clouded and controversial, but largely the
South was still solidly democratic.
It was against the people
who won the Civil War so you had fluky results. This is just a
case where it just happened that 40,000 votes out of 200 million
people is what the dispute in Florida is about.
Gore has said
he will not challenge the electoral college, but he wants to
make sure that if Bush is given Florida that the people who
showed up got their vote counted. The truth is, Tony, everybody
knows Florida had complicated procedures.. They used a ballot a
lot of older people couldn't read, and more people intended to
vote for Gore than Bush. You still have ten thousands blacks in
one precinct.
They were going to vote for Gore. Ten thousand
uncounted votes in one county and six thousand in another. You
have nineteen thousand predominately blacks in Palm Beach County
who punched Buchanan and then punched Gore.
That is another
sixteen thousand votes for Gore. Then you had thirty two
hundred Jewish people who voted for Buchanan and we had a
statistician say it was a trillion to one shot that Buchanan
could have gotten that many votes. The real question is:. can
Gore re-enfranchise enough people to win the elections instead
of the Republicans? The Secretary of State was Bush's campaign
chairman and now the Republican House is threatening to make him
CONP IDEN'l'IAL
CONFIDEN'fIAL
President if the electoral votes go to Gore or not.

The Florida
constitution says if you can divine the intention of the voter,
the vote should be counted and ironically, everything Bush is
fighting in Florida in the recount is precisely what the law he
signed in Texas requires. Any indentation at all these voters
make is supposed to count. ~
So what's your bet?
The President:
I don't know. On the merits, Gore should win,
if we can re-enfranchise enough voters, but even the Florida
Supreme Court, they issued a great decision for Gore but Miami
Dade said "we can't finish by Sunday, so we are not going to do
it at all." So now they have to decide whether they can get
their own order by delaying. They don't need to have any of
this done until December 12th, but you know the Florida
Legislature is Republican. The Republican Congress is
threatening to change the law and they would throw it into the
House. But if they do that, he will be destroyed and he never
will recover. Je1
What ~s your opinion?
jZ1
The President: Right now it's evenly divided because the

process is confusing but generally thought to be fair.
The
Republicans are great spin meisters. They just say it
differently.
It is a power grab. N~w we probably will not get
the ones reenfranchised who double voted on that illegal ballot,
but the truth is, if these people were running for State
Legislature, under the law, those courts would get those votes
to Gore. They just don't have the courage to do it in a
presidential election. You have heard only a slightly biased
opinion.
If I thought Bush won fair and square, I would tell Al
to pack it in, but Gore has on the merits of those who voted,
the stronger claim. So Bush is just trying to run out the
clock. That's why they are desperate to shut it down because
they know Gore lost a lot more votes in those that were thrown
out.
I don't know what. is going to happen. ))2t
Really amazing.
jef
The President:
I think we will work it out and be all right.
It is very important to remember that the whole right wing in
America desperately wants this and they still control the
Congress. There are.other things we can talk about when I see
you because Gore carne back 4-5 percent last week and he started
running his campaign on continuing the progress of the last
CONFIDEN''fIAL
r~",::-:~~~AR~P:OIDcO:t _,"
\ <-~~2;~_:_~.~::-,,",;'.:,~~~~.~~~ .. :-_,~- __ '::_-e ..;:--~!,
CONFIDENTIAL
eight years and it was obvious to me in the last 48 hours, I

told one of our people, he might win the popular vote and lose
the electoral college,
I don't think there is any question that
if everybody in Florida had'their vote counted as intended, Gore
would have won by thirty thousand votes. ~
Prime Minister Blair: The right wing press here has just been
desperate for Bush. ~
The President: They are all upset that the military people got
disenfranchised because they came out in force for Governor Bush
so he carried them 2 to 1. But World War II veterans and
holocaust, survivors, they were perfectly fine with having them
disenfranchised. ~
Prime Minister Blair: They are a lot more ruthless than our
folks aren't they? ..(..G1The President: They are. They hate us more than we hate them.
It's all about power to them. They don't care as much about
government, they just want the power.
I will tell you more when
I see you.
I have not said ~ublicly what I just told you.
I
have to be President here. The New York Times finally went
after the Republicans today. They said they are just over
reaching.
I wouldn't even be surprised to see the u.s. Supreme
Court try to overturn the Florida Supreme Court. ~
The President:
Blimey.
JGr
So here we are.
Jet
Prime Minister Blair: As I say, I can't wait to see you.

are going to have a good talk about it.
ktJ
We
The President: Yes. Let's talk about that. Did our people
tell you we might be able to come over on the 12th and maybe go
to Belfast and Dublin on the 13 th 'and 14 th? ...(.G)Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Any time.
Is that soon enough?
ke1
Prime Minister ~lair:

I've got to go to Zagreb tonight to this
European Balkans thing. ~
The -President:
COMFIDENIIAL
I'm really glad you are going.
jkn'
CONFIDENTIAL

will talk on the plane about
Steinberg will fill you in.
there with Bertie Ahern and we

outlines
of an a reement.Jim
r=~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The President:
Yes.
tet
Prime Minister Blair: I am going to go through with Bertie

tonight what are the three more difficult issues:
What we aim to have by the middle of.

next week is a package we agree on. The right package to go
with. But I would have thought the 12th_14th is about the right
time.
k-e1"
The President: Okay, I will set it up. I can do whatever in
England.
I am coming there basically for you, so I will do
whatever helps you the most.
I can come to Chequers or maybe
give a speech at Oxford.
I thought about talking about five or
six major issues the whole world will face together over the
next ten years.
Something that would keep the Third Way thing
going, but I don't have to give a speech at all.
I am
interested in helping you.
~
Prime Minister Blair: That is very good of you, Bill. I think
a speech on that theme would be very useful. Why don't I give
some thought to where it should be. We got an inkling, and it's
fine with us, that you preferred outside of London.
(C)
The President: No.
I just thought that if we went to London,
you would have to do a big dinner or something.
I wanted to
help you politically and push our agenda.
If it helps you, I am
happy to do that. J.et
on that basis.
J.Q1
The President:
That is really kind of you.
r will work
If you think it is better, r will .go to Oxford.
..keJ
through. --+Gt-
CONFIDE~nL'l.L
That is great.
r will think that
,CONFIDEN'fIAL
The President:
The only caveat might be if we have timing
problems because the 12th is the day all the electors are
supposed to be certified and there might be some reason I have
to wait until the next morning to come. But I went to Brunei
and Vietnam and the best I can do is show the' country that
everything is just chugging along.
If in the next week
something goes haywire, I will call you.
ker
I certainly think a speech is good and my
instinct is to stay outside of London.
We can get some private
time as well.
That is my instinct. But why don't I go through
it with my folks and we will come back to you with clear
suggestions.
~
The President:
Okay.

the 14th?
()
So you will be here on the 12 th , through
The President:
Yes. My thought is the 12th'with you and to go
to Belfast on the 13 th . Maybe Dublin too, or on the 14th -- might
'have to allow two days in Be~fast.
If there is actually some
sort of deal cooked that you need me to bless, we might be able
to allocate a whole day to be there to work this.
I am going to
allow for that, but I think I just have to wait and see. ~
I will be in a better position once I
speak to Bertie tonight and take the temperature of the people
over the weekend.
I don't want to land you in something where
you only have a half day. fer
The President:
I won't do that.
That's why I left a day open.

The President:
Okay.
.JR'f
Can we talk about the Hague and climate change?
( C)
Prime Minister Blai'r:
Absolutely.
(..e1"
The President:
You know, first of all, thank you for helping
moderate the EU position so that we can all have agreement.
I
think you and Dutch are key for an agreement. The French and
the Germans aren't there yet.
I have to tell you where the
politics are going to be in,the United States. We have Congress
evenly divided.
We have Republicans ,acknowledging, even Bush,
CONFIDEN'fL~L
~~~Y:H::COPYJ
.
,
'.,::,~2:--' =-~~~~~_~J. ,~~.'~ ;."-:..;<:.}~ . .,: ;,--.;~_J~. _",
CGNFIDENTL\L
that this is a real problem.

Something has to be done. We now
have through this partnership with Detroit on the next
generation of vehicles that Al Gore spearheaded, we got these
cars that will get 80 mpg.
We are trying hard.
The last step
is chemical research, which would help everybody and make your
oil money good for 30 years. Bio-mass fuels can help us get
something like seven or even eight times more efficient gas or
oil than we have today. That is about a third of the problem
with transportation. We are also trying to get this massive
progress to rapidly accelerate the construction industry. We
have another plan for dealing with our utilities and heavy
manufacturing which is the last third.
Finally, after being
treatd like I was trying to wreck the economy, we are finally
- getting broad acknowledgement.
If we get what we need on the
sinks, forests and all our potential, the gain is something like
300 million tons. We are prepared to go down to less than a
third of that, but we need to get something. We will be
flexible, but we need to get something.
I think we are down to
125. I think it is a mistake to put limits on emission 'trading
because that is a real killer for us politically.
I think it
would be seen for what it is, that Europe wants to try to make
America adopt its tax struct~re and reduce our emissions in the
least efficient way.
It would give us less incenti ve-.
So the
problem may get worse as we get better.
I think it is bad
policy. Even Bush acknowledges it. Right now, about two House
seats left to be decided. The Senate is 50-50 if Bush wins but
51-49 if Al wins because Lieberman would leave his Senate seat
and the Governor of Connecticut is a Republican and would
appoint a Republican. _There are enough Democrats from energy
producing areas that i f this looks like we are getting a bad
deal, that will hurt us.
It also sends the wrong message to
developing countries. What matters is not the results, but how
we achieve it.
I think it is important to get an agreement.
If
we get no agreement, we just give the reactionaries an excuse to
walk away.
>)
Prime Minister Blair: Here's my take.
I just spoke with John
who is headin our delegation over there, on the sinks

you can
The president: Absolutely. We are prepared to take the overall
number lower than the science indicates.
I think the other
thing is you want to have some encouragement in this document
for sinks. We also need to do something about the rain forests
- an approach that is totally voluntary. ~
CONFIDEM'fIAL
CONFIDEN'FIAL
The President: Yes. But the French proposal is to tax itself.

We said, "Let's establish a fund."
I don't think any other
countries have done this as much as we have. We have done it in
two contexts in America with pollutants.
We had quicker
compliance with clean air efforts at lower costs than the people
projected. Every time we did it, it worked faster and cheaper.
I understand why some Europeans want to limit trading in any
way, but it is a big mistake. Developing countries are
important.
They don't have much of a problem, but you have to
give them the incentive to take action. ~
I am totally in agreement with you.
emJF IDE~JT L,\L
,COllfFIBEM'fIAL
The President: Yes.

I will push our proposal on a fund more
and make it attractive to the G-77 and you want us to buck up
Aznar and Guterres. jQY
Yes.
And Schroeder.

The President:
We ought to be more for a market solution here.
( e)
Exactly.
02?
The President: The regulation sh9uld be the outcome, but how to

get there should be left to the most efficient means. Let me
ask something else. How did your visit with Putin go?
(e)
It was fine.
Very interesting . He' feels
that he is not understood about the problems he is facing there.
He was very anxious to impress me. He wanted to see America as
}Q1
a partner, I think.
The President:
I think he does, depending on who wins our
elections, it might take a while to get it going, but the more
time you can spend with him the better. I think he is a guy
with a lot of ability and ambitions for the Russians. His
intentions are generally honorable and straightforward, but he
just hasn't made up his mind yet. He could get squishy on
democracy. -+e7
The President:
Politically, he has got to be with the Arabs on
the Middle East dispute, but I told him one real problem you
have here is that it is not clear how much can be controlled in
CQNFIDi:WTI7\ 1.
tONFIDEN'PIAL
this situation.
10 .
Violence beqets violence.

If you are the st'ronger person, that is
what you have to do.
It was like (gap) but I think especially
for the next year, whoever is President here, and until we get
organized, the more time you spend with him, the more it will
payoff. jJCJ
L--;--:-_ _--;-_...-----;-_-;----II

I will carryon with it.
I think
the other thing is he is only now choosing the people around
);lim. That really matters in terms of what is being pumped into
his ears. He is highly intelligent. ~
The President: Yes. A lot of people pour crap in. He wants to
do a good job and he works at.it every day. He is intelligent
and disciplined. The last thing. I know you had a meeting with
Barak, and I know you're worried. I am doing my best. We've
made little headwa toda.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
am doing my best but yqu see what the problem is, don't 'you?
;er
Absolutely.
The President:
Did you tell him

speak to him.
CONFIDRN'PIAL
that?~
Yes, I have.
I will follow
E.O.13526,section 1.4(b)(d)
and
COnFIDEN''fIAL
13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
lE.o.
11
l . . . - - -_ _ _ _ _
----'I
The President:
It is interesting. The Israelis have good
substantive policies, but the level of misunderstanding between
the two sides is pretty high. ~
~------The President:
I agree with that. +G+Pr~me
Minister Blair:
We will try.

The President: Yes. We're trying to take another run at him on
that and maybe we'll get some movement today.
I am really glad
you are going to this Balkans conference. Tell all those Balkan
guys I said hello.
I am thrilled about what you are doing.
I
think America will do its part out there, no matter what you're
hearing out of the Bush campaign. ~
Prime Minister. Blair:
Bill. -+er
The President:
Thank you so much.

The President:
Ridiculous isn't it.
(U)
How is the Senator?
Happy as a clam.
Happy Thanksgiving,
(U)
Chelsea asked about Leo.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: He is absolutely great and you will see

when you come over.
(U)
The President:
I know Chelsea is coming. Hillary wants to but
she still has to sort out some scheduling things. I hope we see
you on the 12th.
(C)
Okay.
(U)
12
CONFIDEN'fIAL
The President:
Good-bye.
(U)
End of conversation
CONFHl~lTIAL
CONFTDE:N1'I"L
THE WHITE HOUSE

WASH INGTON

SUBJECT:
Telcon with British Prime" Minister Blair
PARTICIPANTS: "
The President
Notetakers:
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Michael Manning and Clark Lystra
December 13, 2000, 4:30-4:41 a.m. EST

Belfast, Ireland
Hello?
(U)
Hello?
The President:
(U)
Good.

The President:
(U)
Hi, Bill, how are you doing?
Did you get some rest?
Yes, a little.
(U)
(U)
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: It was amazing coverage of your visit

yesterday.
It was unbelievable.
In Northern Ireland, it "looks
( C)
good. Did you speak to Adams and Seamus this morning?
The President: No. Our people have been talking.
what they are going to say to you. ~
What's that?
(gap) I know
(U)
The President: That the Sinn Fein view is that before the
election campaigns in the UK, there ought to be a deal on
demilitarization and decommissioning. They want to delay on
Patten and can't embrace it right now. They will not cooperate
directly on the Real IRA. We need to talk to them on the input
they would do.
There need to be more arrests in Omagh. Anyway,
all they said was that they couldn't do more.
Seamus Mallon is
in a particular situation, you know, and the problem is that he
says he will not agree yet on a police force.
He may agree on
one if arrests are made or something and if we find out more we
will tell you, but I think you have to flush them out.
I will
CONFIDE}lTI."tL
Reason: 1.5 <cp

Declassify on;
---. ,
CONFIDENTIAL
JE.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d) J
work today in our meeting with him.

I'll try to find out more
about\whatever the sequence is. -kef
Prime Minister Blair~
The President:
That might cut the mustard with them.

L - - f_
The President:
OK.
~/
Prime Minister Blai
The President:
CONFIDEN'fI.".L
There may be something there.
)Z'5
JE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) J
CO~JFIDEN'fIM:.
The President: That's why I think that if I were you, I would do

a specific trade-off and if you could make some progress there,
it would be alright (gap).
I have to go and get to my meetings
now. We'll be in touch. J<1
Prime Minister B.lair: We need to decide on how specific we
should be when we meet later.
(91
The President:
OK.
Good-bye.
Good-bye.
(U)
End of Conversation
CONFIDEUnAL i

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Clinton Presidential Records

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This is not a presidential record. This is used as an administrative

MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATICN

Telcon with ~abour Party Leader and Prime

May I, 1997, 11:25-11:27 p.m. EDT

Thanks very much indeed.

What are you doing, making a round of parties?

Mr. Blair: Yes we are just off. There's a big celebration by

Yes, it's amazing, isn't it?

That was amazing.

I'm really happy for you.

Yes, well you showed the way.

I'm sorry you got so much grief from the press.

Mr. Blair: That's right.

Always the Right attack you and the

INTON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY

:?::~";'-'--i--":'-;:-~~ ,~....1-" _ ( __ . S,~ :-:-,-/'. '';

Thanks, thank you very much indeed.

THE WHITE HOUSE

Private Meeting with Prime Minister Blair and

May 29, 1997, 11:40 a.m. - 12 noon

Prime Minister Blair:

And Sweden -- it is helpful to look at

5;~;iiooiE]' O:"hff 14, 2015

(Cabinet meeting adjourned, discussion continued with Chancellor

I agree with that.

THE WHITE HOUSE

Ir)ECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE

MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, document no. 3

Restricted Meeting with British Prime

May 29, 1997, 12:00-12:30 p.m.

Prime Minister Blair:

Should we work through our cards?

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)( d)

Reason: 1.5 (b,l

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)

You've got it right with a

I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I

I will tell her that.

THE WHITE HOUSE

DECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE

MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, document no. 4

Luncheon with British Prime Minister Blair

May 29, 1997, 12:30-3 p.m.

I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I

~I Our first concern is that the first shall not be the

Prime Minister Blair:

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)

(1) I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)

E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)

E.O. 13526, section 1.

One way is to emphasize self-selection.

You need to make the judgment in the military

Prime Minister Blair:

What argument did they make?

'l'hat they are not ready.