(Plato1 PDF

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of
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THE LOEB CLASSICAL LIBRARY
FOUKDKD BY JAM£S LOEB, LL.D.
KDITED BY
fT. E. PAGE. C.H., LITT.D.
tE. CAPPS, PH.D., IX.D. tW. H. D. ROUSE, UTr.D.

L. A. POST, L.H.D. E. H. WARMIXGTOX, m.a., f.b.hist.soc.
PLATO
PLATO
WITH AN ENGLISH TRANSLATION
IX
LAWS
BY
R. G. BURY, Lirr.D.
POR3fXIU.Y SCHOI AR OP TBIiOTT COIXKOK, CAMBRIDGE
IN TWO VOLUMES
I
CAMBRIDGE, MASSACHUSETTS
HARVARD UNIVERSITY PRESS
LONDON
WILLIAM HEINEMANN LTD
ilCMLSI
PA
427<1
Ai
V. q
JîVit printed 1926

Reprinted 1942, 1952, 1961
Sf D 2 IMl
Printed in Great Britain

CONTENTS
rAox
INTRODUCTION VU
BOOK I 3
BOOK n 89
BOOK III 165
BOOK IV 255
BOOK V 323
BOOK VI 303
INTRODUCTION
According to tradition, Plato was born in 427 B.C.
and died in 347 b.c, leaving behind him as his last
work the Lmvs. We may, therefore, suppose that
the last decade of his life was mainly occupied with
its composition. The internal evidence of the work
confirms tradition.
itself sufficiently Not only does
it charm and vigour of the earlier dialogues,
lack the
but it is marked also by much uncouthness of style,
and by a tendency to pedantry, tautology and dis-
cursive garrulity which seems to point to the
failing powers of the author. Moreover, the author
himself indicates his own advanced age by the
artistic device of representing the three interlocutors
in the dialogue as old men, and by the stress he
repeatedly lays upon the fact of their age, as well
as upon the reverence due from the young to
the old.
The scene is laid in Crete, and it is during a walk
from Cnosus to the grotto of Zeus on Mount Ida, on
a long midsummer day, that the conversation here
related is supposed to have taken place. Of the
three old men, one is an Athenian, one (Clinias) a
Cretan^ one (Megillus) a Spartan. The protagonist
is the Athenian, and nearly all the talking is done
by him. His companions are little more than

listeners, rather dull of wit, and incapable of adding
vii
INTRODUCTION
anything original to the discussion. The choice of
their nationality, however, is significant, since the
main body of the laws framed for the Model City is
derived from the codes actually in force in Athens,
Sparta and Crete.
Voluminous and discursive as the Laws is, and
framed, apparently, on no artistic plan, it is difficult
for a reader to find his way through the maze and to
see what connexion exists between the various parts
and the relevance of each part to the argument as a
whole. To help towards an understanding it may
be well to give a brief analysis of the argument,
book by book.
Book I.— Divine though their lawgivers were, the
laws of Sparta and Crete are deficient, inasmuch as
they aim solely at Courage, which is but one fraction
of Virtue. A more important virtue is Temperance,
or the right attitude towards pleasure and pain.
For the promotion of temperance we need tests, and
drinking-parties form admirable tests, although their
educational value in this connexion has not hitherto
been recognised.
—
Book II. Another use of strong drink is to inspire
age with something of the fire of youth, so that the
old may take an active part in Music and may direct
the musical training of the young on the right lines.
A discussion of music and dancing leads up to the
conclusion that we must form a " Dionysiac Chorus"
of old men to act as an Academy of Music and to
maintain a correct standard of taste in all that
concerns Drama and the Arts.
—
Book III. Beginning with primitive man, the
survivors of the Flood, an historical survey is made of
the origin and development of civic communities and
viii
INTRODUCTION
their laws. The Dorian Confederacy, the Persian
Empire, and the Athenian Democracy are examined
in turn, and the seeds of political decay in each of
them are pointed out. It is shown, from these ex-
amples, how the extremes of liberty and of tyranny
are alike disastrous.
—
Book IV. Clinias, it appears, has been appointed
a joint-founder of a new Magnesian Colony. This
gives a practical turn to the discussion, and hence-
forth the question is —how is such a colony to be
rightly shaped? The conditions of the colony, as
described by Clinias, suggest to the Athenian observa-
tions on the danger of a seaboard and foreign trade,
and on the advantages of a heterogeneous population.
If a "true polity" is to be successfully established,
chance must aid skill, and a wise despot must co-
"
operate with a divine lawgiver for a '• true polity
;
is one wherein Law reigns with undisputed sway,

and where all the laws are framed in the interests of
the community as a whole. To the Law, as also to
God and to all superior powers, man is bound to
render duty and service in all humility. In order
to inculcate this attitude of voluntary and intelli-
gent obedience, laws must be provided with pre-
ambles or preludes of an explanatory and hortatory
description.
Book \. — As an example ot such a hortatory pre-
lude, the duty of paying due honour to the Soul, as
the most divine part of man, is expounded at length.
Then follow a number of detailed regulations re-
garding the selection of citizens, the number of
households in the State, allotments and their
arrangements, and property-holdings.
—
Book VI. ^The SUte officials to be appointed
—
INTRODUCTION
are enumei'ated, and the methods of their appoint-
—
ment prescribed Law-wardens, Military Officers,
Council, — Religious Officials, — Stewards for Market,
City and Country, —Presidents of Music and Gym-
nastics (chief of whom is the Superintendent of
—
Education), Judges. Then comes legislation deal-
ing with the organisation of the households in tribes,
— festivals and social functions, —marriage (which is
a civic duty) and the ceremonies which attend it,
slaves and their treatment,
ings,— — public and private build-
the regulation of private life and domestic
affairs (discussing how far these should be legally
controlled), —the time-limits proper for marriage,
and for militaiy service and the holding of public
office.
—
Book VII. Regulations for the education of the
young. Up to the age of three continual movement
is to be prescribed for children from three to six,
;
regulated play after six, regular instruction in music

;
and gymnastic, combined with play. Emphasis is

laid on the need of left-hand training, and the value
of ambidexterity. Then follows a discussion on the
subjects of right selection in regard to dance and
song, and the relation of Art and Religion to the
ultimate aim of human life. It is laid down that
the education of females must be identical with that
of males, and that the supreme task for all is self-
perfection. But the Lawgiver's work in regulating
education is rendered specially difficult owing to the
natural intractability of the child. Rules are given
respecting instruction in reading, writing and lyre-
playing, together with supplementary observations
on gymnastic and dancing. A discourse on "mathe-
matical necessity " serves as a preface to advice
—
INTRODUCTION
concerning arithmetic and geometry ; and this is
followed by regulations for field-sports.
—
Book VIII. Regulations for military exercises
and sham-fights, with a disquisition on the defects
in the characters of States, such as the commercial
spirit, which hinder due military training :and fur-
ther observations regarding details of military train-
ing. —
Next to be dealt with are the sex-instinct,
—
with advice for its regulation, the production and
distribution of food, —
laws for the control of agri-
culture,— artisans,— foreign trade,— the distribution
of home and foreign produce, — markets.
—
Book IX. Legal actions and penalties for the
crimes of sacrilege and high treason, followed by a
digression dealing with the art of legislation, the
motives of crime, and the use of the terms " volun-
tary" and "involuntary" as applied to criminal
actions. Cases of "Crimes against the person"
murder, wounding and assault.
—
Book X. A discussion of atheism and irreligion,
and how they are caused and promulgated, is
followed by a threefold argument directed against
three types of misbelievers, viz. (a) those who deny
the existence of gods (6) those who assert that the
;
gods take no interest in men or their affairs (whereas

it is a duty incumbent on all to believe firmly in a
supreme Providence) (c) those who hold that the
;
gods are corruptible by bribes. Laws are enacted to

suppress these various forms of impiety, and also
to prohibit private cults.
—
Book XI. Regulations and observations concern-
— —
ing property-rights, buyingand selling, commercial
honesty,— retail trade and inn-keeping, — breaches of
—
contract, military rewards, — last wills and testa-
zi
—
INTRODUCTION
—orphans,—family
merits, —
disputes, —the
divorce,
honour due to age, — by means of drugs and
injuries
—
witchcraft, and
thefts of
acts —violence, insanity,
abusive language, — public — mendicancy,
ridicule,
the responsibilityof masters the for of acts their
—witnesses courts of — the employment
slaves, in law,
of advocates.
professional
Book XII. — Regulations and observations concern-
ing the duties of ambassadors,—the wickedness of
theft, especiallyof State property, — the benefit to
the State of habits of discipline in the citizens,
hence military service, with carefully adjudged
rewards and penalties, must be universally com-
—
pulsory the Court of Examiners, their appointment
—
and their duties, oaths forbidden in the law-courts,
— promptness in executing sentences, foreign —
travel by the citizens, when permissible, and in what
respect beneficial to the State. Various minor
regulations are added respecting stolen goods, rights
of search, property-holdings, etc. Then follows a
review of the judicial arrangements, including
appeals, with further observations on the importance
of the study of Law, and on executions. After some
supplementary rules have been given concerning
funerals and tombs, we come to a description of the
Nocturnal Synod, its function and constitution, and
the training of its members and with this the work
;
concludes.
It will be clear from this analysis that the title

of Laws is a very insufficient— not to say mislead-
—
ing description of its contents. Barely one-third
of the work consists of " laws " in the literal sense of
the term the rest is a far-ranging discussion of all
;
INTRODUCTION
that concerns the life of man as a " political animal."
Human natui-e in general is the main theme of the
latter part ofBook I, Book II, and large sections of
Books Vand VII while the earlier part of Book I,
;
Book III, and Book IV have for their main theme

human nature in its social and civic aspect. In the
other books, moreover, which do actually deal with
"laws" Plato is enabled to introduce much that
would otherwise be excluded by means of his novel
theory of the twofold nature of law. Laws, he
argues, ought not only to coerce but also to persuade ;
therefore to every law there should be prefixed a

preamble or prelude, explaining and justifying the
law. This legal prelude he compares (by a play on
—
the double sense of po'/aos " law " and musical
"chant") with the proem or prologue of an ode or
drama. The whole of Book X, which purports to be
a special prelude to the law against impiety, is in
reality a general prelude, discussing the existence of
the gods, and the nature of the soul, in fact, a
disquisition de reruvi natura. And in Book VII,
again, we have what is more of a general than of a
special prelude dealing with the subject of the sex-
instinct and its indulgence.
In his view of the State Plato relaxes the rigidity
of the communistic principles he had advocated in
the Republic he allows the individual citizen to
:
possess a wife and family of his own and a certain

amount of private property. None the less, he
constantly insists on the entire subordination of the
individual to the State, on the principle (which holds
throughout the universe) that no part is independent,
but every part exists for the sake of its whole. Con-
—
sequently the State he pictures the Model City of
INTRODUCTION
—
the Magnesians although confessedly inferior to the
Ideal Republic, is one in which the life of every man
and woman, from the cradle to the grave, is strictly
regulated by legal prescriptions. At all costs
anarchy must be suppressed, discipline maintained.
The authority thus claimed for the State is justified
by means of the deification of Law. The supreme
Divinity is Reason (vovs), the Ruler of the Heavens,
and Law (i o/aos) is nothing else than the dispensation
of Reason (vov Siavofn^). Hence our State is, in fact,
a Theocracy and all the sanctions of religion can be
;
invoked in support of its constitution and its laws.

He that ofFendeth against the law, or its officers,
ofiTendeth against God.
The aim of Reason is always the Good, and this,
therefore, is the objective of the State and its
laws. They aim at the cultivation and conservation
of virtue, or civic excellence (âper-q). But of Virtue
as a whole there are two species which receive
special attention in the Laws, namely. Temperance
or Self-control {aw(f>pocrvvri), and Wisdom {(ftpovrjais or
vov?). The promotion of temperance is the main
subject of Book I, and the elaborate regulations for
the education of the young are all directed to foster
this virtue. The main requisite for the bulk of the
citizens is a self-controlled and law-abiding disposi-
tion the key-notes of their lives should be reverence
:
(aiScis) and " moderation " (/icrpioTT/s) —

a " sweet
reasonableness" which yields willing obedience to the
higher powers. But for a select body of the highest
officials (as for the " Guardian " class of the Republic)
a higher type of education is required, calculated to
promote the superior virtue of wisdom. The
" Nocturnal Synod " described in Book XII is
—
INTRODUCTION
designed to be the special repository of Wisdom
hi the Model City ; and since it alone contains any
element of divine Reason, it alone can be trusted to
supplement or amend the divine ordinances handed
down by the original Lawgiver.
But the main duty of the Nocturnal Synod as, —
—
indeed, of all the State officials is that of conserva-
tion (<r(D7T/pia), the maintenance of the status quo. In
the higher spheres of religion and science this duty
devolves ujwn the Synod, in the sphere of Art it
devolves upon the Dionysiac Chorus. Both these
bodies are composed mostly of old men : the natural
conservatism of the old will make them the best
''saviours " (crtuT^pes) of the State, because the most
stubborn opponents of every kind of innovation.
The concentration of all the political power in the
hands of the old is, in truth, one of the most
characteristic features of the Laws, and another sign
of its author's age. The Model City would be only
too likely, one thinks, to strike the youth of to-day
as a Paradise for the old but a Purgatory for the
young.
Since most of the power is thus given to a limited
class, it is fair to describe the State of the Larrs as a
moderate oligarchy although the historical survey
;
in Book III, with its discussion of political types,

might lead one to expect a rather different, and more
liberal, combination of monarchy with democracy
the principle of order with the principle of freedom.
As it is, the average citizen is given but little
freedom, except the freedom to obey. And, though
the State here pictured has been not unfitly
described as "a mixture of .Athenian constitutional
forms and Athenian freedom with Spartan training
INTRODUCTION
and Spartan order, a practical via media between the
two extremes of contemporary Greece/' ^ yet it must
be confessed that there is much more of the Spartan
element in the mixture than of the Athenian, much
less of democracy than of aristocracy. The " Athenian
Stranger" of the Laws is no less of an anti-democrat
than the "Socrates" of the Republic; and his con-
viction of the natural perversity and stupidity of the
average man has increased with the passing of the
years. The saying vox populi, vox dei is, for Plato,
the supreme lie.
and Ethics are, naturally, the subjects
Politics
with which the Latvs is mainly concerned but in ;
the Tenth Book we get something also of psycho-

logical and metaphysical doctrine. In his vindication
of Religion in that Book — to which reference has
—
been made above Plato elaborates that view of Sou!
as the principle of self-movement which he had
indicated, much earlier, in the Phaedrus. His dis-
cussion of the relation of Soul to Motion, on the one
hand, and to Reason, on the other, together with his
new classification of the kinds of motion, and his
distinction between primary and secondary motions,
form the most valuable additions to Platonic
philosophy which the Laws contains.
In conclusion, be it said that besides much that is
tedious in matter and ungraceful in style, the Laws
also contains (to quote Jowett) " a few passages
which are very grand and noble " and " no other ;
writing of Plato shows so profound an insight into

the world and into human nature as the Laws." In
it the philosopher-statesman has garnered the last
* E, Barker, Political Thought of Plato and Aristotle, p. 202.
xvi
INTRODUCTION
fruits of many years of experience and of reflection ;
and, as he himself would have us believe, the

principles it enunciates are valid for all time.
The only English conmientary on the Larvs is

that by E. B. England, a work of fine scholarship
and most valuable, the text being based on Burnet's.
Schanz's text contains only the first six books. Of
other recent contributions to the study of the work,
those of C. Ritter (1896) and O. Apelt(1916) are the
most important. The te.xt here printed is based on
that of the Zurich edition of Baiter, Orelli, and
Winckelmann (1839), the chief deviations from
which are indicated in the foot-notes.
LAWS
NOMOI
St. I. TA TOY AIAAOrOY HPOSfinA

p. 624
AeHNAIOS EEN02, KAEINIA2 KPH2,
MEriAA02 AAKEAAIMONI02
Ae. ®€0<; rj Ti êvoi, €t\r}(f>e

rrjv alriav tt}? roiv vofxcov hia6eae(o<i ;
KA. ©eo9, S) ^€V€, de6<i, CO? 76 to hiicaiorarov
etTreiv irapa fiev rjfMiv Zeu?, irapa he AaKeBai-
p.ovioi<i, oOev oS' ianv, olfj-ai, (pdvai rovTov<i
^ AiroWwva. r] fydp ;
ME. Nat.
Ae. ovv Kad^ "QjX'qpov \€yei<;, m^ tov
yiSiv
B MtVo) 7rp6<; rrjv tov TraTpof eKacnoTe
(f)oiT(t)VTO<;
avvovaiav hC ivaTOV erof? ical KaTo, ra? irap
eKelvov (^rjfia<i rat? iroXeaiv vfiiv 6evT0^ rot"?
vofiov; ;
KA. AeycTai yap ovto) irap' rjph koI hrj koX •
TOV dhe\<^6v ye avTOv 'PaSd/xavOvv, uKoveTe yap

TO 6vop,a, SiKatoTUTOV yeyovevai. tovtov ovv
625 <f)ai/jLev dv r}fielevai.
~~
1 Cp. Horn. Od. 19. 178 f.
LAWS
[or on legislation, political]
CHARACTERS
An Athesias STRAyoEB, Cli>'ias oy Cbetb,
MsGiLLUS or Lacedaemox
BOOK I
ATH. To whom do you authorship

ascribe the
of your legal arrangements, Strangers ? To a god
or to some man ?
CLIN. To a god. Stranger, most rightfully to a
god. We Cretans call Zeus our lawgiver while in
;
Lacedaemon, where our friend here has his home,

I believe they claim Apollo as theirs. Is not that
so, Megillus ?
MEG. Yes.
ATH. Do you then, like Homer,^ say that Minos
used to go every ninth year to hold converse with
his father Zeus, and that he was guided by his
divine oracles in laving down the laws for your
cities ?
CLIN. So our people say. And they say also

that his brother Rhadamanthys, —
no doubt you have
—
heard the name, was exceedingly just. And cer-
tainly we Cretans would maintain that he won this
title owing to his righteous administration of justice
in those days.
PLATO
A0. K.al KoXov ye to zcXeo? vUc re Ai6<; fidXa
TTperrov. iireiSr] 8e iv tolovtoi^ ijdeai Te6pa<f)0e
vo/jLiKOt'i av T€ Kol oSe, TrpoahoKOi ovk av aj}hS)]lid<i * irepl re TroXtrela^ rd vvv koX vop^wv rrjv
8iaTpi^r)v Xejovrd^ re Kal dKovovra<i dpa Kara
TTjv TTopelav 7ron](raa6ai.^ irdvrw'i 6' rj ye ck
B K.v(oaov oSo'i et? to toO Ato? dvrpov Kal lepov,
0)9 aKOvofJLev, 'iKavrj, Kal dvdiravXai, Kara rrjv
oSov, o)9 etKoî, TTVLyoi"; ovro<i rd vvv iv roi<i
vylrT)\oi<i SevSpecriv elat aKiapai, Kal rai<; rj\iKiai<;
TrpeTTov av y)p.())v ecr] to hiava-rraveddai irvKvd ev
avraL<i, re dW7]\ov<; 'iTapap,v9ovp,evov<i
Xoyoiî
rrjv 68ov OLTTaaav ovrco p,erd paarcovi]^; BiaTre-
pdvai.
KA. K.al p,rjv ecrri ye, co êve, irpolovri Kvira-
pirroiv re ev Tot9 dXaecriv tjyjrr) Kal KdWi]

C Oavpdaia, kuI \€ip<t)ve<; ev olaiv dvairavopevoi
8iaTpiôip,€v dv.
A0. Ôp6u><i XeyeL<i.
KA. Haw pev ovv ISovre^ 8e pdWov (f)ijcro-
fiev. aW' tcopev dyaOfj rv')(rj.
A0. Tavr eirj. Kal poc Xeye, Kard ri rd

^vacrind re vpiv avvrera')(ev 6 v6p,o<; Kal rd
yvpvdcria Kal rrjv rcov OTrXooi' eîv ;
lCi\. Olp,at, p,ev, S) êve, kol iravrl pa8iov vtto-
Xaêlr elvai rd ye rjperepa. rrjv ydp t^9 %ajpa9
D 7rdai]inTii' Spare, a)9 ovk eari, Kadd-
irep rj tmv ®erra\a)v, TreBid^. 8i6 8r] Kal T0t9
pev iTTTTcts' eKelvoi y^pwvrat, puaXkov, 8p6poiai 8e
T)pei<i' r]8€ ydp dv(opa\o<i av Kal 7rpo<; rrjv rS)v
* rifias wanting in Paris MS.

LAWS, BOOK I
ATH. Yes, his renown indeed glorious and well

is
befitting a son of Zeus. And, since you and our

friend Megillus were both brought up in legal in-
stitutions of so noble a kind, you would, I imagine,
have no aversion to our occupying ourselves as we
go along in discussion on the subject of government
and laws. Certainly, as I am told, the road from
Cnosus to the cave^ and temple of Zeus is a long
one, and we are sure to find, in this sultry weather,
shady resting-places among the high trees along the
road in them we can rest ofttimes, as befits our
:
age, beguiling the time with discourse, and thus

complete our journey in comfort.
CLIN. True, Stranger and as one proceeds further
;
one finds in the groves cypress-trees of wonderful

height and beauty, and meadows too, where we may
rest ourselves and talk.
ATH. You say well.
CLIN. Yes, indeed and when we set eyes on
:
them we shall say so still more emphatically. So

let us be going, and good luck attend us
ATM. Amen And tell me now, for what reason
!
did your law ordain the common meals you have,

and your gymnastic schools and military equip-
ment?
cl:n. Our Cretan customs. Stranger, are, as I
think, such as anyone may grasp easily. As you
may notice, Crete, as a whole, is not a level country,
like Thessaly consequently, whereas the Thessalians
:
mostly go on horseback, we Cretans are runners,

since this land of ours is rugged and more suitable
^ The grotto of Dicte on Mt. Ida.
* roi'ijaaaBcu Sch&nz : xoirifftcOai M.SS.

PLATO
ire^fj fiaXXov crvfifêrpo^,
Bpofifov a(TKr)aiv iXa-
(f>pa 8rj oirXa dvayKalov ev t& toiovto)
ra
K€KTf]aOat KoX firj ^dpo<i exovra delv r&v 8r}
ro^fov Kal TOêvfiaToov rj KOvtpoTr]^ dp/xoTreiv
8oK€i. ravT ovv Trp6<i tov iroXe/u-ov tj/jlIv aTravra
E i^rjprvTai, koI ttuvB^ 6 vo/ModeTrj<;, u)<i 7' ifiol
(paiveTai, 7rpo<? tovto ^Xeircov avveraTTeTo, eVet
Kal TO, ^vaairia KivSvpevei ^vvayayelu opcov cd<;
7rdvT€<i, OTTorav arparevcovTai, t66^ vtt avrov
TOV Trpdyfiaro<i dvayKdôvrai (f)v\aK7]'i avTcov
evcKa ^vaaneiv rovjov rbv 'x^povov dvoiav 8^
pLOL SoKel KaTaypwvai rtov iroXkcov ci)9 ov /j.av-
OavovTOiv on iroXefio^ del Tratrt Sid îov î/re^r;?
eVrt 7r/309 dirdo-a^; ra? 7roXet9' el Brj TroXifiov
ye 0VT0<i (f}v\aKr]'i evsKa hel ^vaanelv Kai Tiva S cpyw
Trdaai^ 7rpo<i Tracra? Ta^ TroXef? del iroXepbOv
aKTjpvKTOv KaTa (pvaiv etvac. Kal aêSov dvev-
prjaei^ ovrco aKOTroiv tov K.pr]T(ov vop-odeTrjv, (b?
6i9 TOV iToXep.ov diravTa Srjpioaia xal I8ia to,
v6ficp,a -qpHv dTTO^XeTTCov avveTaâTo, Kal KaTa
TavTa ovTco (f)vXdTTeiv irapeScoKe tov<; v6p,ov<t,
B CO? dXXfov ouSei'09 ovBev 0(fi€Xo<; 6v, ovt€
Tcoy
KTrjpbaTwv ovT i7nTr)8evp.dT(i)V, dv p,rj tm TroXe/Mm
dpa KpaTTJ Tf9" irdvTa Se Ta tmv viKMfievmv
dyaOd tmv vikcovtcov yiyveadai.
A0. KaXw? ye, co êve, (f)alvei jj,ot yeyvfivdaOai
LAWS, BOOK I
for the practice of foot-running. Under these con-

ditions we are obliged to liave light armour for
running and to avoid heavy equipment so bows
;
and arrows are adopted as suitable because of their

lightness. Thus all these customs of ours are
adapted for war, and, in my opinion, this was the
object which the lawgiver had in view when he
ordained them all. Probably this was his reason
also for instituting common meals he saw how
:
soldiers, all the time they are on campaign, are

obliged by force of circumstances to mess in common,
for the sake of their own security.And herein, as
1 think, he condemned the stupidity of the mass
of men in failing to perceive that all are involved
ceaselessly in a lifelong war against all States. If,
then, these practices are necessary in war, —

namely,
messing in common for safety's sake, and the appoint-
ment of relays of officers and privates to act as
guards, — they must be carried out equally in time
of peace. For (as he would say) "peace," as the
term is commonly employed, is nothing more than
a name, the truth being that every State is, by a
law of nature, engaged perpetually in an informal
war with every other State. And if you look at the
matter from this point of view you will find it
practically true that our Cretan lawgiver ordained
I all our legal usages, both pubUc and private, with
an eye to war, and that he therefore charged us
with the task of guarding our laws safely, in the
conviction that without victory in war nothing else,
whether possession or institution, is of the least
value, but all the goods of the vanquished fall into
the hands of the victors.
ATH. Your training. Stranger, has certainly, as it
PLATO
irpo'i TO Bceidevai ra KprjToyu po/jiifia. roSe Be
fxoL (f)pd^€ €Ti aaêarepov ov yap opov eOov
C Tr}<; €v 7ro\ir€vop,evi]^ TroXem?, SoKei<; fioi \iyeiv
ovTO) KeKoa/jiy]/jLevr]v ocKeiv Setv ware rroXepw vlkclv
ra? aXXa9 yap av aXXtu? cLTTOKpivano, co Oele,
A.aKehaip,oviwv ye oaricrovv ;
Ae. Uorep ovv Brj iroXeai fiev Trpo? 7ro\€i<;
opOov Tovr i(TTL, Koifir) Be irpo'i Kdofirjv erepov ;
KA. OvBa/x(o<;.
A0. 'AWa ravTov
KA. Nat.
AG. TC Be ; 7r/309 oiKiav oiKLa tS)V iv rfj
K(o^T}, Kal Trpof; avBpa dvBpX ev\ irpo^ eva,
ravrov en ;
KA. IlUVTOV.
D Ae. AvT(p Be tt/oo? avrov iroTepov eo? TroXe/it'o)
77/009 TToXifiiov Btavoi]T€ov, Tj TTOi'i 6X1 Xcyofiev ;
KA. 'n êve ÂOrjvale — ov yap ae Attikqv

^
edekotp^ av tr-poaayopeveiv. BoKeL<i yap /xot, Tij<i

6eov eTTOivvp,ia<i dîo<i elvat, fiaXkov eTrovofidê-
adai' rov yap Xoyov eV dp^T)v opdo}<; dv-
ayaytav aacpearepov eTTocijaa^, ware pdov dvevprj-
a€i<; on vvv Br] v<p' rj/xciyv op6(a^ e/cdarov<; avrov<; a(f)laiv avrol'i.
E A0. rico? eiprjKaî, &> davfxdaie ;
KA. KdvravOa, co êve, ro viKav avrov avrov

^ < Ka\> added by Ast, Schan&
LAWS, BOOK I
seems to me, given you an excellent understanding

of the legal practices of Crete. But tell me this
more clearly still by the definition you have given of
:
the well-constituted State you appear to me to imply

that it ought to be organised in such a way as to
be victorious in war over all other States. Is that so ?
CLIN. Certainly it is; and I think that our friend
here shares my opinion.
MEG. No Lacedaemonian, my good sir, could
possibly say otherwise.
ATH. If this, then, is the right attitude for a
Slate to adopt towards a State, is the right attitude
for village towards village different?
CLIN, By no means.
ATH. It is the same, you say ?
CLIN. Yes.
ATH. Well then, is the same attitude right also
for one house in tlie village towards another, and
for each man towards every other }
CI. IN. It is.
ATH. And must each individual man regard him-

self as his own enemy .''
Or what do we say when
we come to this point ?
CLIN. O —
Stranger of Athens, for I should be
loth to call you a man of Attica, since methinks
you deserve rather to be named after the goddess
Athena, seeing that you have made the argument
more clear by taking it back again to its starting-
point whereby you will the more easily discover the
;
justice of our recent statement that, in the mass, all

men are both publicly and privately the enemies of
all, and individually also each man is his own enemy.
ATH. What is your meaning, my admirable sir?
CLIN. It is just in this war, my friend, thai the
PLATO
Traamv vlk&v irpanr} re KaX upia-Trj, to 8e rjTTaadai
avTov v<f>' eavToO ttuvtcov aia-x^tarov re afxa Kal
KaKiarov. ravra yap to? iroXi/xov ev eKaaToi^
6Vto9 7rpo9 r)ixa<i avrov<i arjfiaivec.
r]fju(i)v
A0. ilaXiv roLvvv top \6yov dvaarpeylrcofiev.

eTreiBij yap eU eKucTTOf rjpLwv 6 fxev Kpelrrasv
627 avTov, o Be rjTTbyv eo-xt, irorepa (f)(b/LL€v ol/CLav
re Kui Kco/nrjv kui ttoXiv e)(êiv ravrov rovro iv
KA. To KpeuTTco T€ uvTm elvat X€y€i6opa ro toioutov, ovx ^f o"''« ^v Tal<;
TToXeaiv ev oTroarai'i /xev yap oi d/iieLVov€<; vikokti
TO TrXrjdo^ Kal Tov<; ;êt/9oi/9, 6pda)<i dv avrrj
KpeiTTWv T€ avTrjf; Xeyotd^ r] ttoXi^ irraivoiTo re
dv SiKaioTUTa ttj toiuvtij vIktj- Tovvavriov he,
oTTOv TdvavTia.
B A0. To (lev Tolvvv et ttot ecrrt ttov to ')(elpov
KpecTTOV Tov dfieivovo^ edawfiev fiaKpoTepov yap
Xoyov TO Se inrb crov Xeyo/xevov fxavOdvco vvv, <W9
TTore iroXtTai ^vyyevei^ Kal r^? avTrj<i TroXeo)?
yeyovoTe^ dBiKOL Kal ttoXXoI ^vveXd6vTe<i SiKaiov^
eXaTTOVi ovTa<; ^cdcrovTai 8ovXovp,evot, Kal oTav
fxev KpaTrjcrcocriv, tJttcov rj 7r6Xi<; auT^? opdS)^
avTTj XeyoLT dv
kuI kukt], ottov 8' dv
d/xa
rjTTMVTai, KpGLTT(ov Te Kal dyadt].
C KA. Kai fxdXa aTOTrov, & êve, to vvv X€yo-
fievov ofio}<i 8' 6/j,oXoyeiv ovtco<; dvayxaioTarov.
» Cp. Jiep. 430 K flf. : Proverbs xvi. 32.

lO
LAWS, BOOK I
victory over self is of all victories the first and best

while self-defeat is of all defeats at once the worst
and the most shameful. For these phrases signify
that a war against self exists within each of us.^
ATH. Now let us take the argument back in the
reverse direction. Seeing that individually each of
us is partly superior to himself and partly inferior,
are we to affirm that the same condition of things
exists in house and village and State, or are we to
deny it ?
CLIN. Do you mean the condition of being partly

self-superior and partly self-inferior ?
ATH. Yes.
CLIN. That, too, is a proper question for such a
;
condition does most certainly exist, and in States

above all. Every State in which the better class
is victorious over the populace and the lower classes
would rightly be termed " self-superior," and would
be praised most justly for a victory of this kind
and conversely, when the reverse is the case.
ATH. Well then, leaving aside the question as to
whether the worse element is ever superior to the
better (a question which would demand a more
lengthy discussion), what you assert, as I now per-
ceive, is this, —
that sometimes citizens of one stock
and of one State who are unjust and numerous may
combine together and try to enslave by force those
who are just but fewer in number, and wherever
they prevail such a State would rightly be termed
"self-inferior" and bad, but "self-superior" and
good wherever they are worsted.
CLIN. This statement is indeed most extraordi-
nary. Stranger none the less we cannot possibly
;
reject it.
II
PLATO
A0. Eê KOI To5e rrdXiv i-rriaKeyfrcofieOa.
Brj'
TToWol dSeXcjioC TTOu yevoivT av ev6<; avhp6<i re

Kol fiid(; vlei'i, /cat Stj kuI dav/xaTTov ov8ev roi/^
TrXetou? /xev dSiKov<; avTOiv yi'yveadai,, tov<; he
i\drTov<i SiKaLOv<;.
KA. Ov yap ovv.
A0. Kat ovK dp ecT} ye Trpeirov ifMol re Ka\
v/j-lvTOVTO 07)pev€iv, ore vikwvtcov /.up rdip iroprj-
pS)p Tj re oiKLa Kal 7) ^vyyepeia avrt] ndcra rjTTWP
D avTT]^ Xiyoir dp, Kpeirrcop 8e ijrrco/jLepcop' ov yap
€V(TXVfÔ(TVPr]<i re Kal da-)(^rjfioauv7j<i prjfidrwv epexa
rd pvp (TKoirovpLeda irpo'i rop twv iroWoiP Xoyop,
dXX" opdoTrjTo^ re Kal d/j,apTLa<; irept poficop, ^ti<;
TTore iari (f)vaei.
KA. ÂXtjdearara, oy êpe, \eyei<i.
KaXeo? fiep ovp, W9 ye
ME. i/xol ûpSokcip to ye
roaovrop rd pvp.
A0. "l?)o)fji,ep 8t) Kal To8e* rovroi<i roc<; dpri
Xeyo/u,epoi^ dS€\(f)oi<i ykpoiT dp irov Tf? SiKaartj^;
KA. Udpv ye.
A0.TloTepo? OVP dfxeipwp ; oariî tou? fiep
E WTToXeaetep avrcop dcroi KaKoi, TOv<i Se êXrlovq
dpxeiP avTom avrcop Trpoardêcep, rj o8e 09 dv
rov'i (xep %p770-Toy9 dpxî^v, rov'i ^(eipov^ S' idaa^
l^fjp dp')(êadaL CKopra^ iroirjaeie ; rpirop 8e irov
hiKa<Trr]P rrpo^ dpeir/p eiTTCofxep, ec ri<; eXr) rotovro^,
628 irapaXa^dtp ^vyyepuap fiiap Bia(pepofieprip
6arTivXdTr€ip Svpairo ware elpui (f>iXov<:.
12
LAWS, BOOK I
ATH. Stay a moment here too is a case we must

:
further consider. Suppose there were a number of

brothers, all sons of the same parents, it would not
be at all surprising if most of them were unjust and
but few just.
CLIN. It would not.
ATH. And, moreover, it would ill beseem you and
me to go a-chasing after this form of expression, that
if the bad ones conquered the whole of this family
and house should be called " self-inferior," but " self-
superior" if they were defeated; for our present
reference to the usage of ordinary speech is not
concerned with the propriety or impropriety ot
verbal phrases but with the essential riirhtness or
wrongness of laws.
CLIN. Very true. Stranger.
MEG. And up to this point, as
finely spoken, too,
Iagree.
ATH. Let us also look at this point the brothers
:
we have just described would have, I suppose, a

judge?
CLIN. Certainly.
ATH. Which of the two would be the better —
judge who destroyed all the wicked among them
and charged the good to govern themselves, or one
who made the good members govern and, while
allowing the bad to live, made them submit willingly
to be governed? And there is a third judge \ve
must mention (third and best in point of merit),
if indeed such a judge can be found, —
who in dealing
with a single divided family will destroy none of
them but reconcile them and succeed, by enacting
laws for them, in securing amongst them thence-
forward permanent friendliness.
VOL L B
PLATO
KA. Ma/cp&i dfielvcov ylyvoir av 6 tolovto^
8iKacrTi]<; re koX vofxoOeTrj^.
A0. Kal fiTjv TovvavTLOv ye r) irpoofiou<; hiavofiodeTol.
KA. ToOto fiev a\rj9e<i.
A0. Tt 5' rr/;/ TToXiv ^vvap/iorrcop ; irpof
TToXefjbov avrrjf; av rov e^wdev ^Xeiroiv rov îov
B Koapôt fidXXov, r) irpoî 7r6Xe/j,ov rov ev avrfj
yiyvofxevov eKciarore, fj Sr) /caXelrai ardent ; ov
fidXtara fiev aTra? av ôvXoiro /j,rjr6 yeveaOai
wore ev eavrov TrSXei yevo/xevov re (w? rd'Xîara
uTraXXdrrecrOai.
KA. AfjXov on 77/009 rovrov.
A0. Uorepa 8' drroXoixevodv av rcov erepoov
elprjvr^v rrj^ ardaewf yeveaOai, viKTjadvrcov Be
TTorepcov, Seâir dv Ti<? pdXXov rj <f)iXia<; re Kal
eip}]vr}<; viro hiaXXayoiv yevo/jLevr]<i, <Kal> ^ ovrw
C TOt? e^coOev TroXe/xLot^ Trpoae)(eiv dvdyKrjv elvai rov

vovv ;
KA. OyTft) TTa? av WeXot, irporepov rj \eiva>^

irepl ri]v aurov ylyveaOai iroXw.
A0. Ovfcovv Kal vo/jio$errj<; cocrayrtw? ;
KA. Tt fit]v ;
A0. 'A/o' ovv 01) rov dplarov eveKa irdvra av

rd vopLipia riOeitj Tra? ;
KA. lift)? h"" ov ;

A0. To ye /j,7)v dpiarov ovre 6 TroXe/xo^ ol'ne rj
crrd(Ti<;, direvKrov he ro her]dr}vai rovrcov, elprjvr]

Be 7r/509 dXX7]Xov^ d/xa Kal (piXocfypoavvrj. Kal 8^
^ </foi> I insert (Schanz brackets (lpi]vrtv . . . 7«»'«(rda» and

aviyKifv flvai).
14
LAWS, BOOK 1
CLIN. A judge and lawgiver of that kind would

be by far the best.
ATH. But mark this his aim, in the laws he
:
enacted for them, would be the opposite of war.

CLIN. That is true.
ATH. And what
of him who brings the State into
harmony ? In ordering its life would he have regard
to external warfare rather than to the internal war,
whenever it occurs, which goes by the name of
"civil" strife? For this is a war as to which it
would be the desire of every man that, if possible,
it should never occur in his own State, and that, if
it did occur, it should come to as speedy an end as
possible.
CLIN. Evidently he would have regard to civil
war.
ATH. And would anyone prefer that the citizens
should be obliged to devote their attention to ex-
ternal enemies after internal concord had been
secured by the destruction of one section and the
victory of their opponents rather than after the
establishment of friendship and peace by terms of
conciliation }
CLIN. Everyone would prefer the latter alternative

for his own State rather than the former.
ATH. And would not the lawgiver do the same .''
CLIN. Of course.
ATH. Would not every lawgiver in all his legislation
aim at the highest good f
CLIN. Assuredly.
ATH. The highest good, however, is neither war
—
nor civil strife which things we should pray rather
to be saved from —
but peace one with another and
friendly feeling. Moreover, it would seem that the
15
PLATO
D Kai TO viKav, d)^ €OLK€v, avT7]V avTTjV ttoXlv OVK rjV
tG)V apKTTOiV aWa
ra)v dvayKaicov Ofioiov q)<; el
Kafxvov aMfxa larpLKY)^ Ka6dpaeQi 8e firjBk to irapdirav
8er]6evTi adifiaTC /i^?Se 'jrpo(Tej(pt tov vovv, axrav-
T&)9 he Kol 77^09 TToXeo)? evSaifiovlav rj kuI ISicotov
hiavoovp,evo<i ovro) rt? ovt dv irore TToXiriKO'i
<y€voiTo 6p6(o^, irpo^ rd eâdev TrdXefxiKa diro-
^XeTTcov jjLovov Kol TTpMTOv, OUT dv VO/Mo6eT'r}<i
dKpi^7]<i, el x^P''^ elpijvyjt rd -rroXejiiov vojxo-
purj
E Oeroir] fidXXov rj twv iroXefiiKOiv evexa rd r*}?

elpi]V7j<;.
KA. âiverai fiev rrrco^ 6 Xoyo^ ovto<;, w êve,

6pO(i)<ielprjaOaf daufid^co ye /j,r)v el rd re trap
Tjfuv vojJLifia KOI en rd irepl AuKeSalfiova p,r)
irdcrav rrjv crirovhrjv rovrcov evexa TreTToirjrac.
A0. Td^ dv 'laco(;' Set 8' ovSev (TKXr]pci)<; ^fid<}
629 avrol^ Bia/judxeadai rd vvv, dXlC r]pep.a dvepcordv,
ft)? fidXcara irepl ravra rj/jLcov re kuI eKeivwv
ajrovSaôvrcov. Kai p,oi rat Xoyw ^vvaKoXov-
Oijarare. Trpoa-rrjaco/LLeda yovv Tvpraiov, rov
<f>vaei ixev Âdrjvatov, rwuBe Se TroXirijv yevo/xevov,
09 Bt) fidXiara dvdpd)Traiv irepX ravra iarrovSaKev,
elirdtv on
ovr dv fivqaaifji'qv ovr iv Xoycp dvSpa ndeL/xrjv
B OVT ei Tf9 7rXov<ncoTaTO<; dvOpcoTrcov eirj, <f)T)aiv,

ovr TToXXd dyaOd KeKTr)fievo<;, eliroiv a^^hov
€i
airavra, 09 fMrj ire pi rov rroXepLOV dpiaro^ yiyvoir^
aei. ravra ydp d/cijKod'i irou Kai av ra Troirj/jiara'
oSe /j,€v ydp, olfiai, 8iaKopr]<i avrcov earl,
z6
LAWS, BOOK 1
victory we mentioned of a State over itself is not

one of the best thin^rs but one of those which are
necessary. For imagine a man supposing that a
human body was best off when it was sick and
purged with physic, while never giving a thought
to the case of the body that needs no physic at
allI Similarly, with regard to the well-being of a
State or an individual, that man will never make
a genuine statesman who pays attention primarily
and solely to the needs of foreign warfare, nor will
he make a finished lawgiver unless he designs his
war legislation for peace rather than his peace
legislation for war.
CLIN. This statement.
Stranger, is apparently
true ; vet, unless I am much
mistaken, our legal
usages in Crete, and in Lacedaemon too, are wholly
directed towards war.
ATH. Very possibly but we must not now attack
;
them violentlv, but mildly interrogate them, since

both we and your legislators are earnestly interested
in these matters. Pray follow the argument closely.
Let us take the opinion of Tyrtaeus (an Athenian
by birth and afterwards a citizen of Lacedaemon),
who, above all men, was keenly interested in our
subject. This is what he says:' "Though a man
were the richest of men, though a man possessed
goods in plenty (and he specifies nearly every good
there is), if he failed to prove himself at all times
most valiant in war, no mention should I make of
him, nor take account of him at all." No doubt
you also have heard these poems while our friend
;
Megillus is, 1 imagine, surfeited with them.

^ Tyrtaeus, xii. (Bergk). Tyrtaeus wrote war-songs at
Sparta about 680 B.O.
»7
PLATO
MF. Haw fiev ovv.
KA. Kai ^-qv Kal irap fi/xd'i iXijXvde KOfiiadevra
€K AaKeBaL/jovo<i.
A0. "lOt vvv^ uvepoo/jitOa Koivfj rovrovl tov
C TTOirjTTJV TTft)?, '12 TvpTai€, TTOllJTa OeiOTaTG'
OVTOXTL
SoK€i<: yap Sy (TO(f)o^ rjfuv eivai xal akad6<i, on
Toi)? fiev ev Tu> iroXe/xw 8La(f)6poPTa<; 8ia(f)€p6pTa><i
iyKeKcofiiaKa';' rjhr) ovv Tvy')(avoixev iyco re Kal
oBe Kal KXeiviaf 6 K.v(oaio<i ovrocrl ^vp.(p€p6/x€Vo[
croi irepl tovtov a(f)68pa, &)? SoKovfiev el Se irepl
TOiv avTcov Xeyofieu avZp&v rj jjLrj, ôvXopêda
elhevat.
(Ta(f)(t)<: Xeye ovv ripulv, apa elBrj 8vo troXe-
Kadairep 7)fiei<;, rjytl Kai av aacpM'i ; rj rro)^ ;
fiov,
Tlpo^ ravra, olfiac, kcLv ttoXv (pavXoTcpoî eliroi
D 'Vvpralov Tt9 raXri6e<i, on 8vo, to /xev o KaXovfiev
airavre^ ardaLv, 09 hi] iravrmv TroXefjLTrv ;jâXe-
TTcoTaro?, &)9 €(pa/ji€v r)/j.€t<} vvv 8iy ro 8' aXXo
TToXe/jLOV 6r](Top.€v, ol/xai, yevo^ airavTe^, w Trpo?
Tov<; CKTO^ T€ Kttl dXXo(f>vXov<; XP^f^^^ Sta(f)e-
popevoi, TToXi) Trpaorepov eKeivov.
KA. TIo)? yap ov ;
A®, êpe Bj), 7roTepov<i Kal 7r/)09 irorepov
€7TaLva)v Tolv TToXepxiLv ^ ovTOiS vrrepeTT-^veaas, tovs
8 eijteâs t<x)v dvSpcbv ; eoi/ca? p-^v yap -npo^ tov^
E e«T09" etpr]Ka<; yovv coBe ev toi<; 7roi7]p,acnv, a)<i
ouBap,MS TOV'i TOCovTOVf dvexopevo^;, Ot p,r) toX-

fiijaatai pev
opav (fiovov aip-aroevra,
Kal Brjicov opeyocvr eyyvOev iardpevoi.
OvKOvv TO, fierd ravra €t7roip,€V av ^p.ei^ on Xv
^ vvv Schanz :vvv Brj Zur. vvv Paris MS.
:
* Toiv TToXefioiv, C. Post rov TToXefiov, MSS., edd.

:
18
LAWS, BOOK I
MEG. I certainly am.

CLIN. And you they have reached
I can assure
Crete also, shipped over frorti Lacedaemon.

ATH. Come now, let us jointly interrogate this
poet somehow on this wise " O Tyrtaeus, most
:
inspired of poets (for assuredly you seem to us both

wise and good in that you have eulogised excellently
those who excel in war), concerning this matter we
three —
Megillus, Clinias of Cnosus and myself are —
already in entire accord with you, as we suppose
but we wish to be assured that both we and you are
alluding to the same persons. Tell us then do you :
clearly recognise, as we do, two distinct kinds of

war ? " In reply to this I suppose that even a much
less able man than Tyrtaeus would state the truth,
that there are two kinds, the one being that which
we all call " civil," which is of all wars the most
bitter, as we said just now, while the other kind, as
I suppose we shall all agree, is that which we engage
in when we quarrel with foreigners and aliens —
kind much milder than the former.
CLIN. Certainly.
ATH. " Come, then, which kind of warriors, fight-
ing in which kind of war, did you praise so highly,
while blaming others? Warriors, apparently, who
fight in war abroad. At any rate, in your poems
you have said that you cannot abide men who dare
not
* face the gory fray and smite the foe in close
combat.'
Then we should proceed to say, "It appears, O

' rhf Baiter, Schanz : robs MSS.
"9
PLATO
fiev iiraivel^, a>9 eoiKu;, coTvpTaie, /xdXiara rovav€i^. *tâir) Tavr di> irov koL ojjlo-
\oyoi
630 KA. Tt fi-qv ;
A0. H/iet? Be ye ayadoyv optcov tovtmv en

<f>afiev a/jLeLvov fxeyiaTOi
TToXefifp yiyvo/iievov^ apicnov^ 8ia(f)av(i)'i. iroitjTrji'
Be Kol pdprvpa e)(ôiji,ev, êoyviv,

r)p,el^ TroXtTrjv
TOiv ev %LKeXia Meyapewv, 09 (f)r]cri
TTtcTTo? dvr)p ')(^pvaov re koX dpyvpov
dvrepvcraadat
dîo<i ev 'âXeTTTJ, Kvpj'c, BL')(ôaTaairj.
Tovrov Bt) (f)ap,ev ev iroXepitp âXeTTcorepw dpLelvova
eKeivov Trdp^TroXv ylyveaOai, cr^fêBov oaov dp,e'iv(av

BiKaiocrvvJ] kuI croxppoavvi) koX (})p6vr)ai^ eh ravTOV
B eXdovaai^ fier avBpia<; <aivT% fj,6vr].^
inaTO<i p,ev yap koX vyirj^; ev ardcrecnv ovk dv
TTore yevoiTO dvev ^Vfiirdai^^ dperrj^;' Bia^dvT€<{ 5'
ev Kol p,a')(6p,evoi e6eXovTe<; dtroOvqaKeiv ev 7' o5^
TToXep.w (})pdêt Tvpraio^, tcov fiiaOocpopcov elaiTrd/ji,-
TToXXot, MV 01 irXelcTTOL yiyvovT ai 6paael<i koI dSiKOi
Koi v^piaTol Ka\ dt^poveararoL cr-yêBov dTrdvTwv,
€KTo<; Bi] Tivcov pdXa oXlywv. irol Brj TeXevra
vvv rjp,lv ovTO<i 6 X6yo<;, koI rt' (f)avep6v ttotc
TTOifjaai ôvXr)del<i Xeyei ravra ; BrfXov otc ToBe,
ct)9 7rai/T09 p,dXXov koX 6 rfjBe irapd Ato9 vop,oderr]^,
C 7ra9 re ov kol crpuKpov 6êXo<;, ovk dXXoae ^ rf

^ 4\6ovrat Eusebius and Prod us e\6oi(ra MSS. :
* < avrris . . . avSpias > added h}' Euseb. I'rocl.

,
' er 7' ^ : iv T(f MSS. : if f Euseb. «V t^ iro\4fj.<f, ^

:
<ppd(fi Winckelmann.
20
LAWS, BOOK I
Tyrtaeus, that you are chiefly praising those who

achieve distinction in foreign and external warfare,"
To this, I presume, he would agree, and say " Yes " ?
ci.iN. Of course.
ATH.Yet, brave though these men are, we still
maintain that they are far surpassed in bravery by
those who are conspicuously brave in the greatest of
wars and we also have a poet for witness, Theognis
; —
(a citizen of Sicilian Megara), who says ^ :
" In the day of grievous feud, Cyrnus, the loyal O

warrior is worth his weight in silver and gold."
Such a man, war much more grievous, is, we

in a
say, ever so much
better than the other nearly as —
much better, in fact, as the union of justice, prudence
and wisdom with courage is better than courage by
itself alone. For a man would never prove himself
loval and sound in civil war if devoid of goodness in
its entirety whereas in the war of which Tyrtaeus
;
speaks there are \«ist numbers of mercenaries re^dy

to die fiirhting^ "with well-planted feet apart," of
whom the majority, with but few exceptions, prove
themselves reckless, unjust, violent, and pre-eminently
foolish. What, then, is the conclusion to which our
present discourse is tending, and what point is it
trying to make clear by these statements Plainly .''
it isboth the Heaven-taught legislator of

this :
Crete and every legislator who is worth his salt will

most assuredly legislate always with a single eye to
* Theognis, v. 77-8 (Bergk). He wrote sententions poetry

about 550 B.C.
* Tyrt. xi. 21.
« iWofft Heindorf : i\\o MSS.

31
PLATO
7r/309 Tr)v /jieylaTijv dpcTrjv fidXicrTa ^Xeirtov del
drjtxei, TOV<i vofiov^' eari Se, c5? (prjcri Seoyvt<;, avTij
TTKTTOTrj^ iv Totf Beivotf, rjv Ti<; hiKaioavvr^v dv
reXeav ovo/xdaeiev. rjv av TvpTaLo re Ka\
Svvdfiei Tov rifiia elvat Xe'yotr dv opOoraTa.
KA. 'n êve, TOV vofjLo0eTrjv tj/llcov diroâXXofiev
^
el^ Toi'9 TToppco vofiodeaitt^ ;
A©. Oj);^ i)fj,€t9 XP^^v iîxd<i Xeyeiv ;
A0. "ilcnrep to re dXrj(-€<i, olfiai, Kal ro Blkuiov
E VTrep ye Oeiov dvSpo<; ^ SiaXeyofievovq Xiyeiv, ov^
ct)9 7rpo9 dperPj^ ti fiopiov, kol ravra to (pavXoTU-
Tov, iTidr] /SXeiraiv, dXXd tt/jo? irdaav dpen'jv, kuI

KUT etSr) ^r]T€tv avT0v<; ^ tov9 vofiov;, ovB' drrep
01 TOiV vvv etBr] irpoTidefievoL ^rjTOvaiv ou yap
av €KacrTO<; ev %/Jeta yiyv^Tai, tovto ^rjTel vvv
irapaOe/jêvo^, 6 /xev tu irepi tmv KX-qpcov Kal
eiTiKXripayv, o Be tt}? aluia^ irepi, dXXoi Be dXXa
631 UTTa p-vpia ToiavTa' rjp.ei<; Be (papêv elvai to irepl
vopovf ^r}Trip.a Twv ev ^tjtovvtcov, uxnrep vvv
77/x6t9 rip^dp.e6a. Kal crov ttjv p,ev e7ri)(eipt]aiv Ttj'i
eîiyr)(Tea)<i irepl tov^ v6p.ov<; TravTairacnv dyap,ai'
TO yap diT^ dpeTTj^ dpxecrOai, Xeyovra <w? eTiOr}
TavTr}<i eveKa roi)? v6p,ov<;, hpdbv oti Be irdvTa et?
^ vofiodealas Ritter. Apelt : vofinOeras MSS.
2 Oeiov avSpbs Badham : Oeias MSS.
' avToiis : avrSiv AISS.
22
LAWS, BOOK 1
the highest goodness and to that alone and this ;
(to quote Theognis) consists in " loyalty in danger,"

and one might term it "complete righteousness."
But that goodness which Tyrtaeus specially praised,
fair though it be and fitly glorified by the poet,
deserves nevertheless to be placed no higher than
fourth in order and estimation.^
CLIN. We are degrading our own lawgiver.
Stranger, to a very low level !
ATH. Nay, my good Sir, it is ourselves we are

degrading, in so far as we imagine that it was with a
special view to war that Lycurgus and Minos laid
down all the legal usages here and in Lacedaemon.
CLIN. How, then, ought we to have stated the
matter ?
ATH. In the way that is, as 1 think, true and

proper whentalking of a divine hero. That is to
say, we should state that he enacted laws with an
eye not to some one fraction, and that the most
paltry, of goodness, but to goodness as a whole, and
that he devised the laws themselves according to
classes, though not the classes which the present
devisers propound. For everyone now brings for-
ward and devises just the class which he needs one :
man deals with inheritances and heiresses, another

with cases of battery, and so on in endless variety.
But what we assert is that the devising of laws,
when rightly conducted, follows the procedure
which we have now commenced. Indeed, I greatly
admire the way you opened your exjjosition of the
laws for to make a start with goodness and say that
;
that was the aim of the lawgiver is the right way.

But in your further statement that he legislated
^ i.e. courage comes after wisdom, prudence and justice.
23
PLATO
fiopiov aperri<i, koX Tavra to (T/jLiKporaTov, iirava-
(pepoura ecprja-Oa avrov vo/jioOereiv, ovre 6p6(o<} en
jxoi Karecpcivrji: Xeycoi' top re varepov vvv \6yov
rovTOV irdvTa etprjKa Bcci ravra. irfj Btj ovv ae
er av iôvXofiijv SieXo/nevov Xeyeiv avro^ re
B UKOveiv ; BovKei aoL (ppd^fo ;
KA. Tldvv fiev ovv.
A0. 'n ^^v^.^XP^^ elirelv, ol K.prjTcii)v vofioi ovk
eltrl fidrrjv 8ia(f>ep6vrQ)<; ev irdaiv evhoKifiot rot?
"^Wrjaiv eôvai yap 6p6oy<; TOvixe-
vou<;evhaifiova^ diroTekovvTei;' travTaydprddyadd

TTopLôucri. BiirXd 8e dyadd eari, rd fiev dv6pco-
iriva, rd Be delw ffprr^Tai 8' e«: TOiv deiwv Odrepa-
^
Koi idv fiev he')(riTai rt? rd fieiôva, irapiararai
Kol Ta ekdrrova, el Be p,i], (neperai dp,(f>OLV'
C ecTTi Be rd p.ev eXdrrova o)v rjyelTai pev iiyieta,
KdWo<; B^ Bevrepov, to Be rpiTOv l(TXv
aciipari, Teraprov Be Bi) ttA-oOto?, ov TV(f)\6<i, aXX"
o^v ^XeiTcov, dvjrep dp eTTijrai. (fipovijaei. 6 Brj
TTpoiTov av TOiv Oeiwv r)yep,ovovv earlv dyaOoav, //
<fip6vr](Ti<;, Bevrepov Be p,erd vov croocbpwv '^vyrj^
eî^' e/c Be rovrcov yu-er' dvBpia<i KpaOevrwv rpirov

D dv etrj BiKaiocrvvr), reraprov Be dvBpia. ravra Be
rrdvra eKeivwv ep^rrpoadev reraxrai (pvaei, Kal Brj
Kal rw vopoOerj] raKreov ovtq}. p,6rd Be ravra
rd<; dWa<i 7Tpoardêi<i roi<; 7ro\irai<; et? ravra
^\erTOV(Ta<i avroU elvai BiaKeXevcrreov, rovrwv Be
rd pev dvOpcoTTiva et? ra Oela, rd Be 6ela elf rov
fjyepova vovv ^vp,rravra ^Xerreiv. irepi re ydpov<i
dXXrjXoL<i eTTLKOLvovpevovi, p,erd re ravra ev
^ jraplffTUTat Badham, Schanz ttJau, «toto< MSS.
:
24
LAWS, BOOK I
wholly with reference to a fraction of goodness, and

that the smallest fraction, j'ou seemed to me to be
in error, and all this latter part of my discourse was
because of that. WHiat then is the manner of ex-
position I should have liked to have heard from you?
Siiall I tell you ?
ci.iN. Yes, by all means.

ATH. " O Stranger " (thus you ought to have
said), "it is not for nothing that the laws of the
Cretans are held in superlatively high repute among
all the Hellenes. For they are true laws inasmuch
as they effect the well-being of those who use them
by supplying all things that are good. Now goods
are of two kinds, human and divine and the human
;
goods are dependent on the divine, and he who

receives the greater acquires also the less, or else he
is bereft of both. The lesser goods are those of
which health ranks first, beauty second the third ;
is strength, in running and all other bodily exercises
—
;
and the fourth is wealth no blind god Plutus, but

keen of sight, provided that he has wisdom for com-
panion. And wisdom, in turn, has first place among
the goods that are divine, and rational temperance
of soul comes second from these two, when united
;
with courage, there issues justice, as the third; and

the fourth is courage. Now all these are by nature
ranked before the human goods, and verily the law-
giver also must so rank them. Next, it must be
proclaimed to the citizens that all the other instruc-
tions they receive have these in view and that, of
;
these goods themselves, the human look up to the

divine, and the divine to reason as their chief. And
in regard to their marriage connexions, and to their
«5
PLATO
Tai9 tSiv TraiScdv yevvrjaeai kuI rpotftai^, oaot re
appeve^ koI oaai drfkeiai, vecov re ovrcov Kal enl
E TO irpea^vTepov l6vy(ov p-expi 7'?p<w9> ripiOiVTa
6p9oi<; eTTifieXeLadai Set Kal dri/jniôpTa, iv Tracrai?
Tat9 TOVTWV ofiiXiai'i rd<i re \uTTa<; avTOiv Kal
Td<; rj8ova<; Kal Td<; e7ndvp,ia<i ^vfiTrdvTcov re
632 ipoortov Ta<; cnrov8d<; €7r€(TK€fi/uLevov Kal 7rapaTr€(f)v-
Xaôra ylriyeiv re 6pdo)<i Kal eiraivelv hi avrcov
Tcov vojiodv. iv 6pyal<; re av Kal ev (poôi^, oaai
re Sid Bvarv^lav rapa')(al ral<i y^v)(âl^ yiyvovrai
KoX oaai ev evrv^îaa rwv roiovrcov d'iTO(j)vyai,
oaa re Kara v6aov<; rj Kara 7roXefiov/. fierd Se ravra dvayKfj rov vofio-
derrjv rd<i KrijaeK roiv iroXtroiv Kal rd dvaXco-
jxara <f)vXdrrecv, ovriva av yiyvrjrai rporrov,
Kal Ttt? 7r/)09 dXXi]Xov;, iv ol<; ecrri
re Kal iv ol<i iXXelirei, Kal roi^ fiev evireiOecri
ro) vo/nm ^ rt/j.d<; uTrovefMeiv, rot? 8e SvaTreidecTL
C 6t'/ca9 raKrd<; iTTiriSevaL, p^-)(^pirrep dv 7rpo9 reXo0/u,ou9 diraai rovroi,pov)](7ew<i, roOf
I T(^ v6fi<i! Stephens : riiv vS/xwy MSS.

26
LAWS, BOOK I
subsequent breeding and rearing of children, male

and female, both during youth and in later life up to
old age, the lawgiver must supervise the citizens,
duly apportioning lionour and dishonour ; and in re-
gard to all their forms of intercourse he must observe
and watch their pains and pleasures and desires
and all intense passions, and distribute praise and
blame correctly by the means of the laws them-
selves. Moreover, in the matter of anger and of
fear, and of all the disturl)ances which befall souls
owing to misfortune, and of all the avoidances there-
of which occur in good-fortune, and of all the
experiences which confront men through disease or
—
war or penury or their opposites, in regard to all
these definite instruction must be given as to what
is the right and what the wrong disposition in each
case. It is necessary, in the next place, for the law-

giver to keep a watch on the methods employed by
che citizens in gaining and spending money, and to
supervise the associations tliey form with one another,
and the dissolutions thereof, whether they be volun-
tary or under compulsion ; he must observe the
manner in which they conduct each of these mutual
transactions, and note where justice obtains and
where it is lacking. To those that are obedient he
must assign honours by law, but on the disobedient
he must impose duly appointed penalties. Then
finally, when he arrives at the completion of the
whole constitution, he has to consider in what man-
ner in each case the burial of the dead should be
carried out, and what honours should be assigned to
them. This being settled, the framer of the laws
will hand over all his statutes to the charge of
—
Wardens guided some by wisdom, others by true
27
PLATO
Be St' aXr}dov<i So^tj'; lovra^, oirox; Trdvra ravra
^vvhrj(Ta<i 6 vov^ eTTOjjLeva aax^poavvrj koX Bifcaio-
avvp aTro<f)^vr}, dWa /jltj irXointp firjSk <f)i\orifiia.
D ovTQ)<;, Si êvoi, eycoye rjOeXov dv ufid^^ koI en vvv

ôvXofiai, BieêXdelv 7r&)9 ev toi<; tov Ato9 \eyo-
fievoi^ v6fioi TTcpl vofxoiv ifiTreipu) re')(vr) etre Kai ricriv edeai^
T0t9 Se dXXoi<; rjfilv ovBafiMf icrrl Karacpavrj.
KA. Yl(o<i ovv, 0) êve, Xeyeiv j^prf rd fierd

ravra ;
A0. 'E^ dp^rj<; TTaXiv ep,oi,ye hoKsl ')(^pr]vat, 8i-

E eêXdelv, fcaOdnep rjp^dfieda, rd t?}? di'hpiarov SieêXOcofiev, ireipacropbeda avro

TrapdBetyfia de/jLevoi Kal raXXa ovro) Bia/j,hdoXo-
yovvre<; TrapafivOca ironja'aa-Oai t^? 68ov' varepov
Be dperri^ irdar)^, d ye vvv Brj Bi/]X6o/jLev, eKelae
^XeTTOvra aTrocfiavov/xev, dv Oeo^ iOeXrj.
633 ME. Ka\ci)9 XeyeL<i, Kal rreipo) -npcorov Kpivetv

TOV TOV Aibf eTraiverrjv rovBe rj/xlv.
A0. Yleipdaopai Kal epavrov koivos ere re Kal

ydp o \6yo<i' Xeyere ovv rd ^vaairid <f)aper Kal
rd yvfivdaia 7rp6<i rov iroXepov eêvpPjaOai rat
vop.odery ;
28
LAWS, BOOK I
opinion —
to the end that Reason, having bound al.
into one single system, may declare them to be
ancillary neither to wealth nor ambition, but to
temperance and justice." In this manner. Strangers.
I could have wished (and I wish it still) that you had
fully explained how all these regulations are inherent
in the reputed laws of Zeus and in those of the
Pythian Apollo which were ordained by Minos and
Lycurgus, and how their systematic arrangement is
quite evident to him who, whether by art or practice,
is an expert in law, although it is by no means
obvious to the rest of us.

CLIN. What then, Stranger, should be the next
step in our argument ?
ATH. We ought, as I think, to do as we did at
first— start from the beginning to explain first
the institutions wliich have to do with courage
and after that we shall, if you wish, deal with a
second and a third form of goodness. And as soon
as we have completed our treatment of the first
theme, we shall take that as our model and by a
discussion of the rest on similar lines beguile the
way and at the end of our treatment of goodness
;
in all its forms we shall make it clear, if God will,

that the rules we di'^cussed just now had goodness
for their aim.
MEG. A good suggestion And begin with our
!
friend here, the panegyrist of Zeus —

try first to put
him to the test.
ATH. Try I will, and to test you too and myself;
for the argument concerns us all alike. Tell me
then do we assert that the common meals and the
:
gymnasia were devised by the lawgiver with a view

to war ?
29
PLATO
ME. Nat.
A9. Kai rpiTov rj Teraprov ; icron'; yap av
OVTQ) X/Jetr; Biapi6jj,i]aa(Tdai kuI trepl riliv t^?
aXkri<; apeTTj^ etVe /xepcov ecre arr avra KoKelv
'^(peoop a \eyei.
eari, hrjXovvra fxovov
B ME.Tplrov Toivvv, €70)76 eiTTotfi' av Kai Aave-
hatfiovLWV oariaovv, rr)v Orjpav evpe.
Ae. 'VerapTov Se rj Trepbirrov el SvvaifieOa
\ey6LV 7r€ipa}/j.€0a.
ME. "Ert rolvvv Kal to reraprov eywye rreipw-

fir)v av Xiyeiv to irepl rm Kaprepi](Tei<i rwv akyj]-
S6vQ)V TToXv Trap" r]pLV yiyv6p,evov ev re Tac<i Trpo?
aXk?]\ov<; rait %epcrt fid'Xâi'; Kal ev aprrayal^ rial
bia ttoWmv TrXr^ySiv eKiiaTOTe ytyvo/xevaif;' ^ It*
Be Kal /cpvTTTeia ti^ ovofidêrai Oavfiaarcio^; ttoKv-
C iT0V0<i 7r/3o? ra? Kaprepijaei^, xîpcovwv re dwiro-
h'qaiai Kal daTpuxriai Kal dvev depairovTcov avroi^
kavTOiV BiaKOvr]<T€i<i, vvKTcop Tc 7r\aj'Q)/j.ep(ov Sia
trdarj'; t^? ')(a)pa<i Kal fied' rifiepav. en Be kclv
raL<; yv/jLVOTracBtai<i Beival Kaprepijaei^ Trap' rjfilv
yiyvovrai rfj tov Trviyov^ pd)/j.7) Btapaxopevwv,

Kal TrdpTToWa erepa, a-)(eBov ocra ovk av rrau-
aaLTo Ti<i eKdcTTore Bteîcov.
Ae. Eu ye, co AaKeBaifiovie êve, Xeyei^. rr]v
dvBpiav Be, (f)epe, ri dcopev ; irorepov aTrXco?

ouTG)? elvai TTp6, at Kal twv aefxvSiv
* yi'yvon.ivais Ast, Schanz : ytyvoixfvoiv MSS.
30
LAWS, BOOK I
MEG. Yes.
ATH. And is there a third institution of the kind,
and a fourth ? For probably one ought to employ
this method of enumeration also in dealing with the
subdivisions (or whatever we ought to call them) of
the other forms of goodness, if only one makes one's
meaning clear.
MEG. The
third thing he devised was hunting
so and every Lacedaemonian would say.
1
ATH. Let us attempt also to state what comes

fourth, —
and fifth too, if possible.
MEG. The fourth also I may attempt to state it :
is the training, widely prevalent amongst us, in hardy
endurance of pain, by means both of manual contests

and of robberies carried out every time at the risk of
a sound drubbing moreover, the " Crypteia," ^ as it
;
is called, affords a wonderfully severe training in

hardihood, as the men go bare-foot in winter and
sleep without coverlets and have no attendants, but
wait on themselves and rove through the whole
countryside both by night and bv day. Moreover
in our games,- we have severe tests of endurance,
when men unclad do battle with the violence of
—
the heat, and there are other instances so numer-
ous that the recital of them would be well-nigh
endless.
ATH. Splendid, O Stranger of Lacedaemon ! But
come now, as to courage, how define it ?
shall we
Shall we define it quite simply as battling against
fears and pains only, or as against desires also and
pleasures, witli their dangerous enticements and
^ Or " Secret Service."' Young Spartans policed the
countrj' to suppress risings among the Helots.
- The " Naked Games," held about midsummer.
31
PLATO
^
olofi£va>v elvai tov<; Ov/xov<i [/xaXaTTovaai]
KT]p[vOV<; TTOIOVCTIV ,'
ME. Olfxai /ji€v ovTco, Trp6<; ravra û/.i-rravTa.

Ae. Ei yovv tou? efnrpoaBeu X6yov<;,
/u,€fMvr]/.ieda
rjTTco Tiva oBe Kal ttoXlv eXeyev avrrjv aujrj êve Kvcoaie ;
KA. Kal TTCLvv ye.

E A0. NOv oup TTorepa Xeyofiev top tmu Xviroiv
rjrTco KUKov rj Kal top ro)v rjSovcov ;
KA. ÎdXXov, e/MOiye So/cet, top toop rjoopwp' Kal
fidXXop Xeyo/xep top vtto tcop tjSopoip
7rai»T€? TTOV
KpaTOV/JLCPOPTOUTOP TOP ilTOPeihLaTa)^ fjTTOVa
kavTOv TrpoTepop rj top vtto t(op Xvttmp.
o34 A0. 'O Aio9 ovp St) Kal 6 Uv6ik6<; pofio9€TT]<i
ov Bi] TTOV %&)X^z/ Ttjp apBpiav pevop,o9eTi^KaTop,
7r/3o? TCL upiaTepa fiopop Bvva/xeprjp apTiâlveip,
7r/jo9 Be TO, Beîa Kal Koix^\ra Kal dwrrevTiKa
dBupaTOvaap ; 77 7rpo<; afKôTepa ;
KA. Tlpo? a/uLcpoTepa eya>ye aîco.

A0. Xeyoip,ep tolpup ttoXip, iiTLTTjBevp.aTa -nola
ead^ vp.cp dp.ipOTepai'i rat? iroXecrip, a yevoPTa
TO)P i)BopoiP Kal ov (pevyopTa avTd<i, KaBdirep Ta<;
Xv7ra<; ovk ecêvyev aXA,' ayoPTa et? p,eaa^ r)pdy-
B Kaê Kal eireiOe TLfi,al<i wo-re KpaTelv avTwp- ttov
Br) TOVT eoTTL TavTOP TTepl Ta<i r)Bopd<; avPTeTay-
fjLepop ev TOi? Pop,oc<i ; XeyecrOo}, tl tovt iaTlv o
Kal uTrepydêTat vfup 6/xolo)<i 7rp6<i re dXyr)Sopa(i

Kal 77/909 rjBopd'i tov^ avT0v<; dpBpeiov^ viKMPTdf
^ \ji,a\dTTov(rai] omitted by best MSS.
32
LAWS, BOOK I
riatteries, which melt men's hearts like wax — even

men most reverenced in their own conceit.
MEG. The latter definition is, I think, the right
one : courage battling against them all.
is
ATH, Earlier in our discourse (if 1 am not mistaken)

Clinias here used the expression " self-inferior "' of a
State or an individual did you not do so,
: O
Stranger
of Cnosus ?
CLIN. Most certainly.
ATH. At present do we apply the term "bad " to
the man who is inferior to pains, or to him also who
is inferior to pleasures ?
CLIN. To the man who is inferior to pleasures

more than to the other, in my opinion. All of us,
indeed, when we speak of a man who is shame-
fully self-inferior, mean one who is mastered by
pleasures rather than one who is mastered by
pains.
ATH. Then surely the lawgiver of Zeus and he of
Apollo did not enact by law a lame kind of courage,
able only to defend itself on the left and unable to
resist attractions and allurements on the right, but
rather one able to resist on both sides?
CLIN. On both sides, as I would maintain.
ATM. Let us, then, mention once more the State
institutions in both your countries which give men
a taste of pleasures instead of shunning them, ^just
as they did not shun pains but plunged their citizens
—
into the midst of them and so compelled them, or
induced them by rewards, to master them. Where,
pray, in your laws is the same policy adopted in
regard to pleasures ? Let us declare what regula-
tion of yours there is which causes the same men
to be courageous toward pains and pleasures alike,
33
PLATO
re a Bei viKav kuI ov8a/jLO)<; t^ttou? TroXe/xicov rSyv
iiyyvrara eavTMV koX ')(a\€'iTO)TdTwv.
ME. OvTfo fiev roivvv, cu Peve, Kadurrep ttoos
Ta? aA.yr]Oova<i €t)(ôu vofiovi avriTerwyfievov^
iroWovi eiirelv, ovk av icrco<; evTropoirju Kara
fieydXa fiepr} Kal hiacâvi] Xeyooi' Trepl roiv rjSovMV
C Kara Se crfiiKpa ia(o<; eviropoirjv av.
KA. Ov jxrjv ov8' av auTo? eycoye ev rolave<; 6p.0LM<; irotelv to
TOIOVTOV.
A@. 'n aptaroi êveov, Kal ovSev ye Oav/xaarov.
dX)C av dpa Tt<? r)fM(ov irepX tou? e/cdcTToov oXkoi
v6p.ov<i yjre^T) ri, ôvXofjLevof ISelv to re dXr}de<i
dfia Kal TO îXriarov, fi-q âXeTrw? aXXa irpdat't
dtrohexdiiJLeOa dXXrjXatv.
D KA. Ôpdoi<i, M ^€V€ Âdrjvale, €tpj]Ka<;, Kal
irecareov.
A0. Ov yap av, w ViXeivia, TijXiKolaSe dvBpdai,
irpeTTOl TO TOIOVTOV.
KA. Ov yap ovv-
A0. El [xev Toivvv opdca'i rj firj Tio-
Tepoiv Xeyetv. vfilv fiev ydp, eiVe/? Kal p.eTpico<;
KaT€(T KevaaTai to, tcov vo/acov, el<i twv KaXXiaTcov
av etr] vofxtov fir) ^rjTelv tcov vecov /xijSeva eav iroia
E KaXw^ avTOiv rj fxrj KaXct)<; e^î, fiia Be (f)0)v^ Kal
ef ei/o? (TTOfUiTO^ irdvTa^ avfi<f)a)V€tv a)? irdvTa
KaXS)<i KciTai devTcov decov, Kal idv Tt? dXXa}<i
XSyrj, jxrj dve-êcdai to irapdirav uKovovTa^'
yipcov Be el Tt? Tt ^vvvoei tcov Trap v/ilv, irpo'i
34
LAWS, BOOK I
conquering where they ought to conquer and in no

wise worsted by their nearest and most dangerous
enemies.
MEG. Although, Stranger, I was able to mention
a number of laws that dealt with mastery over pains,
in the case of pleasures 1 may not find it equally easy
to produce important and conspicuous examples
but I might perhaps furnish some minor instances.
CLIN. Neither could I in like manner give myself
clear examples from the Cretan laws.
ATH. And no wonder, my most excellent friends.
If then, in his desire to discover what is true and
superlatively good, any one of us should find fault
with any domestic law of his neighbours, let us take
one another's remarks in good part and without
resentment.
ci.iN. You are right. Stranger : that is what we
must do.
ATH. Yes, for resentment would ill become men
of our years.
CLIN. Ill indeed.
ATH. Whether men are right or wrong in their

censures of the Laconian polity and the Cretan
that is another story anyhow, what is actually said
;
by most men I, probably, am in a better position to

state than either of you. For in your case (your
laws being wisely framed) one of the best of your
laws will be that which enjoins that none of the
vouth shall inquire which laws are wrong and
which right, but all shall declare in unison, with one
mouth and one voice, that all are rightly established
by divine enactment, and shall turn a deaf ear to
anvone w ho says otherwise ; and further, that if any
old man has any stricture to pass on any of your
35
PLATO
ap'ôvra re koI irpo^ t)\iKLa)T)]v /j,i]Bev6<i ivavTuiv
veov TTOieladaL rov<; tocovtov<; \6yov<;.
KA. ÔpdoraTo. <ye, & êve, X€y6t<i, kuI Kaddirep
635 p,dvrL<i dircov t^9 Tore 8i,avola<; rov Ti6evT0<; avrd
vvv €7TieiK(o<; fioi BoK6i<; iiTTOxdadai kol crôZpa
dXTjdi) Xeyetv.
A0. OvKovv rjpblv ra vvv eptjfiLa fxev vecov,
avrol 8' eveKU 'yrjpw'i dcpei/xed^ virb rov vofxoderov
SiaXeyofievoi Trepi avroiv tovtmv fiovoi Trpo<i
fiovov^ firjhev av TrXTj/M/xeXetv ;
KA. "Ectti Tavra- Kal ixrjhev ye
0U7a)?[et? a] ^
dvfjs eTTLTLfiajv ov yap ro ye

rols vofiois rjfjLcov'
yvQival T4 Twv pLTj kuXmv drifjiov, dXXd taaiv i^

avTOv avfiâivei ylyveadai tw firj (pdovw rd Xeyo-
B p,eva aW' evvoia he)(op,ev(p.
A0. KaXcG?. ov firjv €7r CTifjLWv ye epco rot?
vofjLoi^ TTco irplv /Se/Sato)? eh Bvva/xiv hiaaKey^raadai,
fidXXov 8e diTopoov. iifuv yap a vop.o6erii<i fiovofi
'KXXrjvcov Kal âp^dpcov, mv rjp,€l<i irvvdavoixeOa,
TMv fxeyiarwv r^hovSiv Kal TTaihiwv eTreraêv
direxeaOat kuI fit) yevecrOai, to 8e tmv Xvttmv Ka\
<^6^(iiV, oirep dpri hieXrfXv6ap,ev, i^yrjaaro ec Tt?
e'/c nralhwv <f)€vêiTai Bid reXov^;, oirorav eh
dvayKaiov^ eXdrj TTovovf Kal (f)6ôv<i Kal Xvira^,
(bevêiadai toi'9 ev €Keivoi<; yeyv p^vaa p,evov<; Kal
hovXevaeiv avroh. ravrovhrj tovt otfxai, Kal tt/oo? ,
ra? rjBovd<; eBei Biavoeladac rov ainov vofjLodeTrjv,

Xeyovra avrov 7rp6<i eavrov o)? ij/xiv 6k vecov el
direipoi Tcov p,eyicrrQ)v rjBovcov oi TroXlrai yevrj-
^ [*ij S] bracketed by England.
36
LAWS, BOOK I
laws, he must not utter such views in the presence

of any young man, but before a magistrate or one
of his own age.
CLIN. A very sound observation. Stranger and;
just like a diviner, far away thougli you are from

the original lawgiver, you have fairly spotted, as I
think, his intention, and described it with perfect
truth.
ATH. Well, there are no young people with us
now ; so we may be permitted by the lawgiver, old
as we are, to discuss these matters among ourselves
privately without oflence.
CLIN. That is so. Do you, then, have no scruple
in censuring our laws ; for there is nothing dis-
creditable in being told of some flaw rather it is
;
just this which leads to a remedy, if the criticism be

accepted not peevishly but in a friendly spirit.
ATH. Good I But until I have investigated vour
laws as carefully as I can I shall not censure them
but rather express the doubts 1 feel. You alone of
Greeks and barbarians, so far as I can discover,
possess a lawgiver who charged you to abstain from
the greatest of pleasures and amusements and taste
them not but concerning pains and fears, as we
;
said before, he held the view that anyone who shuns

them continuously from childhood onward, when
confronted with unavoidable hardships and fears and
pains, will be put to flight by the men who are
trained in such things, and will become their slave.
Now I presume that this same lawgiver should have
held the same view about pleasures as well, and
should have argued with himself that, if our citizens
grow up from their youth unpractised in the greatest
pleasures, the consequence must be that, when they
37
PLATO
(Tovrai, [/cat] ^ afxekkryiroi fyfyvoixevoi iv ral<;
7']8ovai<; KapTcpeiv koX firihev rcov ala')(^poyv avay-
D KciêaOai Troieiv eveica ttj9 yXuKvOvfila^ T779 tt/oo?
ra? t]8ovd<;, ravrov irelaovTai roi<; rjTrwfievoL<i ruv
(f)6ô)i'' BovXevaoucri rpoTTOv erepov koI er ala')(iw

'Tol<; ye hvvapevoL<; Kuprepeiv iv rat? i]8ovat<i /cal
TOt? K€KTr}pevoi<; to, irepl ra<i T^8ovd<i, dvOpa)Troi<i

iviore TTavrdiracn kukoI^, kuI Ttjv yjrv)(^T]P r'p pev
ZovXr}v Tjj eXevOepav eôvai, Kal ovk dîoi^

Se
a7r\ft)9 dvSpecoi Kal iXevOepioi eaovrat irpoaayo-
peveadai. crKOTreire ovv el ri rcov vvv Xeyofievtov
vpXv Kara, rpoirov hoKei Xeyeodai.
E KA. AoKEi p,€v rjpiv ye ttco? Xeyopevov rov
Xoyov, irepl he T)j\ikovtq)i' evOv<; •jreTria-reuKevai
pahico^ p,T] vecov re y pdXXov Kai dvotjTcov.
A©. 'AW' el TO p,€Td ravra Sieîoipêv oiv
irpovdfpLeda, w KXeivia re koX AaKeSaipovie êve,
— fier uvhpiav yap 8r) aco(f>po(Tvvr]v Ti ^ hiaêpov ev ravTai<i rat? iroXcreiai'i
7} 'v rat? TMV elKT] iroXirevopevoov dvevpi'](TO/j,€v,
636 oxnrep rd irepl rov iroXep.ov vvv hrj ;
ME. ^x^hov ov pdSiov dXX* eoiKe yap rd re
^vcrcTiTia Kal rd yvfivda-ca Ka\&<; evprjcrdai Trp6ia^7]T^TQ}p,aaiv, ov Svvarov elvai Trpoardâi ri
77/309 ev aa>p,a ev iircTijSev/jia, iv u> ovk av (paveir)
^ [/cal] bracketed by W. -MoUendorff.

^ IJ.UV Ti Bsdham : r\ MSS. (after f) I insert V).
38
LAWS, BOOK I
find themselves amongst j)leasures without being

trained in the duty of resisting them and of refusing
to commit any disgraceful act, because of the
natural attraction of pleasures, they will suffer the
same fate as those who are worsted by fears they :
will, that is to say, in another and still more shameful

fashion be enslaved by those who are able to hold
out amidst pleasures and those who are versed in
—
the art of pleasure, people who are sometimes
wholly vicious thus their condition of soul will be
:
partly enslaved and partly free, and they will not

deserve to be called, without qualification, free men
and men of courage. Consider, then, whether you
at all approve these remarks of mine.
CLIN. On the face of them, we are inclined to
approve but to yield quick and easy credence in
;
matters of such importance would, I fear, be rash

and thoughtless.
ATM. Well then, O Clinias, and thou. Stranger
of Lacedaemon, suppose we discuss the second of
the subjects we proposed, and take temperance next
after courage : shall we discover any point in which
these fjolitiesare superior to those framed at random,
as we found just now in regard to their military
organisation ?
MEG. Hardly an easy matter ! Yet probably the
common meals and the gymnasia are well devised to
foster both these virtues.
ATH. In truth, Strangers, it seems a difficult
thing for State institutions to be equally beyond
criticism both in theory and in practice. Their case
resembles that of the human body, where it seems
impossible to prescribe any given treatment for each
case without finding that this same prescription is
39
PLATO
TaVTOV TOVTO TU /Ji€V ^XuTTTOV TU rjfjLMV (TM/XaTU,
B TO, Se Kal (t)(j)€\ovv' yv/xvdaia ravra
eVet Kal to.
Koi TO. ^vaaiTia TroWa fiev aWa

vvv toêXet t^<?
TToXei?, 7rpo9 he ra<; ardaei^ %aXe7ra* htfKovai, he
^.tXrialoiv KOI ôioiTOiv kol %ovpl(i)v iralhe'i. koI
hrj Kcu rrdXai bv vo/jLifiov ^ BoKei tovto to eirLTrj-
Sevfia Kal <Ta<;> ^ Kara cf)V(Tiv [Ta<;] irepi to,

d<^pohiaia rjhovd<; ov fiovov dvOpcoTrcov Kal aWa
drjpicov Bte(f)6apKeuai. Kal toutcov Ta<; vp,erepa^
TToXet? TTpcora^ dv Tt9 acTLOtTO Kal ocrai rSiv
C dWwv paXiara aiTTovTai twv 'yvfivaaicov Kal
eiT€ iraiôvTa etre a-TrovBdôvra evvoeiv Bel rd
TOiavTa, evvorjreov on rfj OriXela Kal t^ tS)V
dppivoiv <f>v(Tei et? KOivwviav lovarj tt}? yevvrjaeci)^
fj trepl ravra rjSovT] Kara (f)V(Tiv dirohehocrdai
SoKel, dppevoiv he irpo^ dppevat /; OrjXeiwv 7rpo9
dqXeia'i irapd Kal ro}V rrpcoroiv ro r6Xp,r)fMa
(fivcriv
elvat, hi^ aKpdreiav irdvre^ he hrj K.p7)r(J!)v

->j8ov7]<;.
rov irepl rov Tavvp,rjh7] p,vdov Karr]yopovp,ev, to?

D Xoyo7TOLr]advr(i)v rovrcov iTreihrj irapd A/o? avrol^
ol v6p,oi Treircarev/xevot, rjcrav yeyovevai, rovrov rov
p,v9ov TrpocrreBeiKevai Kara rov Ato9, Kva eirofievoi
ht] rut dew KapTTWvrai koi ravrrjv rrjv r}hov)']v. to
piev ovv rov p,v9ov ')(âtpera>, vopcov he rrepi hia-
aKOTTovpLevcdv dvdpuyirwv oXlyov irdad eartv rj
aKei\ri<i irepi re rd<i r]hovd<; Kal rd<i Xu7ra9 ev re
rroXea-i Kal ev lhLOL added by Boeckh, bracketing the next [raj].
40
LAWS, BOOK I
partly beneficialand partly injurious to the body.

So these common meals, for example, and these
gymnasia, while they are at present beneficial to the
States in many
other respects, yet in the event of
civil strifethey prove dangerous (as is shown by the
case of the youth of Miletus, Bocotia and Thurii);^
and, moreover, this institution, when of old standing,
is thought to have corrupted the pleasures of love
which are natural not to men only but also natural

to beasts. For this your States are held primarily
responsible, and along with them all others that
especially encourage the use of gymnasia. And
whether one makes the observation in earnest or in
jest, one certainly should not fail to observe that
when male unites with female for procreation the
pleasure experienced is held to be due to nature, but
contrary to nature when male mates with male
or female with female, and that those first guiltv
of such enormities were impelled by their slavery
to pleasure. And we all accuse the Cretans of
concocting the story about Ganymede. Because
it was the belief that they derived their laws from
Zeus, they added on this story about Zeus in order

that they might be following his example in enjoying
this pleasure as well. Now with the story itself we
have no more concern but when men are investi-
;
gating the subject of laws their investigation deals

almost entirely with pleasures and pains, whether in
States or in individuals. These are the two fountains
which gush out by nature's impulse and whoever
;
draws from them a due supply at the due place and

* Plato here ascribes the revolutions which occurred in
these places to the intensive military training of the youth.
Tliurii was a Greek lowu in S. Italy, an oflF-shoot of Sybaris.
4«
PLATO
E ofioiaxi Koi ISceoTrjf: Kal ^coov airav, 6 S' dvcTri-
(TTijfiovax; afia Kal e«TO<» tcov Kaipoiv ravavTia
av €K€LVq) ^WT],
ME. Aeyerai fxev ravra, m êve, /caX-w? irca, ov
fiT}v oKK a(f)a<rta y rjfxa^ Xafi^dveu ri irore y^pi]
Xiyeiv Trpo? ravra. 6fxo><i

3' efioiye 6pO(t)<i 8oKel
TO Td<; r)Sovd<; (})€vyeiv SiaKcXeveaOac rov ye iv
AaKeSaLfiovi vo/xoderrjv irepl he tmv iv Kvoxtm
G37 vopoyv oSe, av idiXrj, ôrjdijcrei. rd S' ev ^Trdprrj
KdWiar dvOpcoTTCov Soxei fiot Keicrdai rd Trepl
Ta9 rjhovdf;' ov yap /ndXiar dvOpcoirot Kal
fieyiarai^ tt poairlinovaLV i]8oi'aL<; xal v^peci Kal
dvoia irdarj, tovt iêâXev 6 voixo<i r)p.(ov €K ttj^
')((opa'i ^vfi7rd(Tr]^, Kal ovr av irr^ dypSiv tSoa
out' €v dareaiv oaav 'S.TrapridTai^ /neXei av/xTTocria
ovB^ oTToaa TOVTOi<i ûv€7r6/j,€va Trdaa^ i]Sovd<i
Kivei Kurd SvvafMiv, ouS' eariv 6aTi<; av diravriav

KOifidôvTC Tivi fierd /xedrjî ovk av rrjv fMeyicrTrjv
B hiK'qv €vdv<i imOeLrj, Kal ouS' av Aiovvaia

nrpocâaiv 6)(ôvt avrov pvaaiTo,^ (oairep ev
d/j,dâi<; elSov irore Trap' vfiiv iya). Kal ev
TdpavTt Se irapd toi<; qp.erepoL'i d7roLKOi<; irdaav
eOeaadfirjv rrjv ttoXlv irepl ra Aiovvcria fxeOvov-
aav Trap rjp,lv 8' ovk ear ovBev toiovtov.
Ae. Tl AaKeSaifiovie êve, eTTaLverd p,ev Trdvr
earl rd roiaina, ottov ti,v€<; eveiat Kaprepy]aei<i,
C OTTov 8' dvelvTai, ^XaKiKcoTepa' ra^v ydp aov
• (>iaaiTo Athenaeus, England : Kvaairo MSS.

42
LAWS, BOOK I
—
time is blessed be it a State or an individual or
any kind of creature but whosoever does so with-
;
out understanding and out of due season will fare

contrariwise.
MEG. What you Stranger, is excellent, 1
say.
suppose ; none the less I am
at a loss to know what
reply I should make to it. Still, in my opinion, the
Lacedaemonian lawgiver was right in ordaining the
avoidance of pleasures, while as to the laws of
—
Cnosus our friend Clinias, if he thinks fit, will
defend them. The rules about pleasures at Sparta
seem to me the best in the world. For our law
banished entirely from the land that institution
which gives the most occasion for men to fall into
excessive pleasures and riotings and follies of every
description neither in the country nor in the cities
;
controlled by Spartiates is a drinking-club to be seen

nor any of the practices which belong to such and
foster to the utmost all kinds of pleasure. Indeed
there is not a man who would not punish at once
and most severely any drunken reveller he chanced
to meet with, nor would even the feast of Dionysus
—
serve as an excuse to save him a revel such as I
once upon a time witnessed ''on the waggons " ^ in
your country and at our colony of Tarentum, too,
;
I saw the whole city drunk at the Dionysia. But

with us no such thing is possible.
ATM. O Stranger of Lacedaemon, all such indul-
gences are praiseworthy where tliere exists a strain
of firm moral fibre, but where this is relaxed they
are quite stupid. An Athenian in self-defence
* At the Feast of Dion3-sus in Athens it was customary for
revellers mounted on waggons to indulge in scurrilous
language during the processions.
43
PLATO
Xdôn av rt? rmv trap i^fiodv dfivvofievo'i, 8€iKVc<;
T11V Twv yvvacKcbv nap vfxlv dvecriv. diraai 8rj
To2<i ToiovToi<;, Kol iv TdpavTC kul Trap rj/juv Kol
"trap he, fila diroKpiaL^ uTroXveadai BoKei
vjjuv
Tov KUKCO^ ^X^^^ dX)C 6pO(o<i' Tra? yap diroKpi-
firj
v6fji€vo<i ipel OavfidôvTi îvo), rr}v irap avTOi<;

drjOeiav opSivri, M^
Oavfiaê, w îv6' v6[xo<i ead'
qpXv ovTO<i, "cro)? 8' vixiv irepl avTcov rovrtov
D 6X6/909. r}/MV S" €0"tI vvv, b) (f}LXoi dvhpe^, ov irepl
tS)V dvBpooTTcov rwv aXXayv 6 Xoyo<;, dXXa Trepi
Tcov vofioderMv avrcov KaKLa<; re koI dperi]^. ert
yap ovv eiTTco/jiev irXeioi irepl dTrdari<^ p,edi]<;' ov
yap (TfiiKpou ecTTi to eTriT-qSevfia ovSe <f)avXov
hiayvoivai vo/xoBeTov. Xeyco S' ouk oivou irepl
TToaeo)^ TO TTapdvav rj fiij, p,e9ri<; he avrtj'i Trepi,
TTorepov biairep ^KvOai XP^^'^^'' '^^'' ne/jo-at
')(pr](Treov, /cal en xal KeA,Tol Kal
Kap')(^r]h6vioi
E "l^jjpe^ Kal &paKe<i, iroXep^tKa ^vfiiravra ovja
ravra yevrf, rj KaOdirep vp,6W u/jL€l<i p-ev ydp,
oirep Xeyei^, to Trapdirav aTre^êcrê, ^KvOai he
Kal @paKe<; aKpdro) Travrdiraai ')(^pd)fievoi, yvvalKe<;
T€ Kal avTOL, Kal Kara tcov IfxaTLcov KaTa'xêop.evoL
KaXov Kal evhaifjLOV eimr^hev p,a eTriTrjheveiv vevo-
p.LKaai. Uepaai he acjiohpa p,€v y^poiVTai, Kal Tai?
dXXai<; Tpv(f)at<;, a? v/x.ei'i diro^dXXeTe, ev Tdêi
he p.dXXov tovtcov.
638 ME. 'n XaaTe, hicoKo/xev he ye r)/j,ei Ta<i ')(êlpa<i Xa^Mfiev.
A0. 'n dpiare, /j-rj Xeye Tavra' iroXXal ydp hrj
(f)vyal Kal huoêii; uTeK/xapTOi yeyovaai tc Kai
eaovTai, hio (fyavepov opov tovtov ovk dp ttotc
44
LAWS, BOOK I
might at once by pointing to the looseness

retaliate
of the women your country.
in Regarding all such
practices, whether in Tarentum, Athens or Sparta,
there is one answer that is held to vindicate their
propriety. The universal answer to the stranger
who is surprised at seeing in a State some unwonted
practice is this :
" Be not surprised, O
Stranger
such isthe custom with us with you, perhaps, the
:
custom in these matters is different." But, my dear

Sirs, our argument now is not concerned with the
rest of mankind but with the goodness or badness
of the lawgivers themselves. So let us deal more
fully with the subject of drunkenness in general
for it is a practice of no slight importance, and it
requires no mean legislator to understand it. I am
now referring not to the drinking or non-drinking of

wine generally, but to drunkenness pure and simple,
—
and the question is ought we to deal with it as the
Scythians and Persians do and the Carthaginians also,
and Celts, Iberians and Thracians, who are all warlike
races, or as you Spartans do for you, as you say,
;
abstain from it altogether, whereas the Scythians

and Thracians, both men and women, take their
wine neat and let it pour down over their clothes,
and regard this practice of theirs as a noble and
splendid practice and the Persians indulge greatly
;
in these and other luxurious habits which you reject,

albeit in a more orderly fashion than the others.
MEG. But we, my good Sir, when we take arms
in our hands, put all these people to rout.
ATH. Say not so, my dear Sir for there ha/e
;
been, in fact, in the past and there will be in the

future many a flight and many a pursuit which are
past explaining, so that victory or defeat in battle
VOL. I.
45
PLATO
Xeyoiêv aX)C afxcîa^r^rrja-ifiov TrepX koXwv
iimrihev^droiv Kal /jlt), vlkt}i> re kol r/rrav
Xi'yovTe^ jj.d'^ri^;. eVet ht] ^ yap ai ixeiôv; ra^
i\dTTou<; 7roX.ei? vikoxti fia')(ôfJLevai koI Kura-
B SovXovuTai, 'S.vpaKoaioi p,ev AoKpov<i, ot Brj
hoKovaiv evvofKoraroi rS)v irepl eKeivov tov tottov

yeyovevai, Ketof? Se Âdrjvalot' fivpla 8' dWa
ToiavT dv €vpoi/jL€v. dWd 'irepl avrov exdaTOv
eiT(,ri]hevp,aro<i Treipiopeda Xeyovre^ ireideiv rj/xas
avTov<;, vLKa<; Se Kal 7]TTa<; i/CTO<; \6yov rd vvv
dcofiev, Xiycofiev 8' o)? to fiev roiovSe e'crxt koXov,
TO Se roLovhe ov kuXov. irpSirov 8' uKovaaTe ri
fwv Trepl auT(t)v tovtwv ax; Set to t€ ^^prjaTov Kal
TO fit) aKOTreiv.
C ME. Ow? ovv Br} Xiyei^ ;
A0. AoKOvat fioi Travre? ol Xoya Ti Xa^6vT€<;
iTriTrjhevfxa Kal -Trpode/xevoi. yfreyeiv avTo rj irraivelu
evdifi prjdev ov8afXb)JT€ tt)V epyaaiav /Arfje Tr]v

ovriva Tpotrov Kal olarKTC Kal p,ed
7rpoa(f)opdi',
a)v Kal €)(ovTa Kal ottw? [7rpocr(f>epeiv] ^
07ro)9
D 6)(ovcn' vvv 8t) Tavrov pot hoKovp-ev rfpÛ iv rot?
X6yoi<; TTOieiv irepl p,e6T)<; yap dK0v<TavT€<i ro-
aovTov p,6vov ev6v<i ol p,ev ^jreyetv avro, ol S*
e-naiveZv, Kal p,dXa droTTcos. p,dpTvai yap Kal

iyyvrjraLg * ;)^pdj/i.evot eTraivovpev CKarepoL, Kai
1 inei Srj England : indSri MSS.

* Tvpov : Tvpovs Cornarius : nvpovs MSS.
* bracketed by Mad\ag, Schanz.
[Trpoo(f>ep€iv']
* eyyvrjTois C. J. Post iTraivtTais MSS., edd.
:
46
LAWS, BOOK I
could never be called a decisive, but rather a ques-

tionable, test of the goodness or badness of an
institution. Larger States, for example, are
victorious in battle over smaller States, and we find
the Syracusans subjugating the Locrians, who are
reputed to have been the best-governed of the
peoples in that part of the world: and the Athenians
—
the Ceians, and we could find countless other
instances of the same kind. So let us leave victories
and defeats out of account for the present, and dis-
cuss each several institution on its own merits in
the endeavour to convince ourselves, and explain in
what way one kind is good and another bad. And
to begin with, listen to my account of the right
method of inquiring into the merits and demerits
of institutions.
MEG. What is your account of it ?
ATH. In my opinion all those who take up an
institution for discussion and propose, at its first
mention, to censure it or commend it, are proceeding
in quite the wrong way. Their action is like that of
a man who, when he hears somebody praising cheese
as a good food, at once starts to disparage it, without
having learnt either its effects or its mode of
—
administration in what form it should be ad-
ministered and by whom and with what accompani-
ments, and in what condition and to people in what
condition. This, as it seems to me, is exactly what
we are now doing in our discourse. At the first
mention of the mere name of drunkenness, straight-
way we fall, some of us to blaming it, others to
praising it ; which is most absurd. Each party
relies on the aid of witnesses, and while the one
47
PLATO
01 fiev, OTC TToWoi"? 7rape;ô/ieâ, aîovfiev ri
Xeyeiv Kvpiov, ol he, on tou9 /xr) ^p&j/x.ei'ou? avTW
opoifiev viKOiVTWi fj.axofievov<;' dfx,(f)icr0r}T€iTai S'
av Kal TovO' rjfxlv. el jxev Brj Koi irepi, eKacnoiv

ovTco Koi T(t)v dWcov vofU/jL(OP hie^Lfxev, ovk av
E e/MOiye Kara vovv eirj. rpoirov Si aXXov ov ifiol
(paiverat Selv ideXco Xeyeiu irepl avrov tovtov,
T^? p,e6r)<f, ireipoofievo'i av dpa Svvayfiat rrjv irepl
airavroov rwv tolovtcov opdrjv fiidoSov qfiiv BrjXovv,

CTreihi] Kal fivpla eVi. /xvpioi<; edvrj irepX avTCOv
ap(f)icr^7]T0vvTa vp,iv iroXecn hvelv tA Xoya
hiap.dyoiT av.
ME. Kat pr]v ei riva e)(ofiev opdrjv aKeyfnv tcov
639 TOLOvrcov, ovk diroKvrjreov uKoveiv.
A0. "ZKeyjrcopeOa Bt] tttj TrjSe- (f)ipe, et ri
V€fiofjL6va<i aiTToXov ev ipyacrifMOi^; 'X^copioiii Bpuicra^
KaKO, Bia-^lreyoi, Kal ttolv dpep,p,a dvapxov rj fiera
[tmv] KaKoiv dpyovrwv IBcov ovtq) p,ep,^0LT0, rov
Tov TOLovJOV -ôyov rjyovfxeda vyL€<i av irore ^jreât
Kal OTiovv
ME. Kat 7r(u9
B Ae. H.p'r)crro<i he dpy^cov ecrd^ rjpXv ev ttXolol^
TTOTcpov eav ttjv vavTiKrjv exj} eTnaTrjp.rjv /jlovov,

av T ovv vavria av re yu.?/ ; rj ttw? dv Xeyoifiev ;
ME. Ou5a/iW9, dv ye iTpo<i rfj rexvp exj} Kal
TOVTO TO •ndOo'i Xey€i<;.
A0. Tt S' dpx<^v arparoTTehu)V ; dp' edv ttjv

48
LAWS, BOOK I
party claims that its statement is convincing on the

ground of the large number of witnesses produced,
the other does so on the ground that those who
abstain from wine are seen to be victorious in battle ;
and then this point also gives rise to a dispute. Now

it would not be at all to my taste to go through all
the rest of the legal arrangements in this fashion

and about our present subject, drunkenness, I desire
to speak in quite another fashion (in my opinion,
the right fashion), and I shall endeavour, if possible,
to exhibit the correct method for dealing with all
such subjects for indeed the view of them adopted
;
by your two States would be assailed and contro-

verted by thousands upon thousands of nations.
MEG. Assuredly, if we know of a right method of
investigating these matters, we are bound to give it a
ready hearing.
ATH. Let us adopt some such method as this.
Suppose that a man were to praise the rearing of
goats, and the goat itself as a fine thing to own, and
suppose also that another man, who had seen goats
grazing without a herd and doing damage on culti-
vated land, were to run them down, and find fault
equally with every animal he saw that was without
a master or under a bad master, —
would such a
man's censure, about any object whatsoever, be of
the smallest value.''
MEG. Certainly not.
ATH. Do we call the man who possesses only
nautical science, whether or not he suffers from sea-
sickness, a good commander on a ship —
or what?
MEG. By no means good, if along with his skill he
suffers in the way you say.
ATH. And how about the army-commander ? Is a
49
PLATO
•rroXefiiKTjv e^?; eirKTTjj/xrjv, iKav6<; dpx^tf, kuv
heiKo'i oiv iv rol<; Betvolf; inro fxidrjii tov ^ ôôv
vavria ;
ME. Kal TTci)? ;
Ae. *Av Se av firjT e'^77 ttjv T€\yrjv SetXo?
ME. UavrdiraaL Tiva Trovrjpop \€'yei<;, Kal

oiiBa/jLcof; avhpSiv ap')(ovTa, tivcov acfioSpaaWd
yvpaiKMV.
C A0. Tt S' eiraiveTqv rj -\|re'/cT77i/ KOiva>viapaKa)<; eirj iror opdoy^
avTi]v avrfj KOivcovovaav //.er' dpôvTos, del Be
dpapxov rj fierd KaKOiv dpyovTwv ^vvovaav
oiMfieOa Bi] Tov<i roiovroix; Oecopom rcov
TTOxe
ToiouTcov KOivwiuMV ')(^priaTov Tf \jreêiv rj iiratve-
aeaOai ;
ME. Ilfo<? 8' dv ; p,r]Be7roTi ye iB6vTa68pa ye.
A0. TavTTjv ovv ficov 6p6o)&v /nev
pdBiov o)? ovBeTTOiTrore to irapdirav ou yap
i7rixd>ptov vfilv rovTO ouBe vofiipov eytb S' evre-
Tvxv^"- '''€ TToXXat? Kal TroWaxov, Kal irpoaeri
irdaa^ &)? erro^ elrrelv BtrjpcoTrjKa, koI a^^êBbv
E oXrjv pbev ovBe/xCav 6pd(t)<; yiyvofievijp ecopuKa ov8^
* TOV : TOV MSS., edd.
50
LAWS, BOOK I
man fit command, provided that he has military

for
science,even thougli he be a coward and sea-sick
with a kind of tipsy terror when danger comes?
MEG. Certainly not.
ATH. And suppose he has no military skill, besides
being a coward ?
MEG. You are describing an utterly worthless
fellow, not a commander of men at all, but of the
most womanish of women.
ATM. Now take the case of any social institution
whatsoever which naturally has a commander and
which, under its commander, is beneficial and ;
suppose that someone, who had never seen the

conduct of the institution under its commander, but
seen it only when with no commander or bad
commanders, were to commend the institution or
censure it do we imagine that either the praise or
:
the blame of such an observer of such an institution

is of any value ?
MEG. Certainly not, when the man has never

seen nor shared in an institution of the kind that
was properly conducted.
ATM. Now stay a moment! Shall we lay it down
that, of the numerous kinds of social institutions, that
of banqueters and banquetings forms one .''
MEG. Most certainly.

ATH. Now anyone ever yet beheld this
has
institution conducted ? Both of you can
rightly
easily make answer —
"Never yet at all," for with
you this institution is neither customary nor legal
but I have come across many modes of banqueting
in many places, and I have also inquired into nearly
all of them, and I have scarcely seen or heard of a
single one that was in all points rightly conducted ;
51
PLATO
aKTjKoa, fiopia 5' ct ttov a-fiiKpa kuI oXlya, ra
TToWa oe ^vfiiravO^ o)? ecTrelv hir^fiaprrifieva.
KA. IIco? hr) Tuvra, u) êve, Xeyei'i ; etVe ert
(Taêarepov ijfieh /xtv yap, onep etTre?, aireipia
640 tS)v roiovTtov, oyS' iuTvy^dvoi'Te'i av !'<r&)9 €v6vpd!ôvro<; ireipa}
pavddveiv. ro pev yap ev irdaai'^ re ^vv6Soi<?
dvBpelov Set rov dpôvra elvat.

KA. 11 w? S' oij ;
Ae. 'O prjv dvSpeio^ rcov 8ei\a>v vtto (pQ^cop

^rrov reOopv^rjrai.
B KA. Kal rovro ovra)^.
Ae. Et S' ^v Tf9 pri-)(avrj pijSev ro irapdnrav
BeSiora p.r]B€ dopvQovp,evov eiriarrjaai arparo-
•jreSo) arpartfyov, ap ov rovr av iravrl rp6iT(p
eirpdrropev ;
KA. XôSpa fiev ovv.

Ae.NOi' he ye ov arparoTTehov irepl Xeyopev
dpôvro <f)i,Xov(; koivcovt}-
aovTcop <f)iXo(f)po(Tvvrj<;.
KA. 'Op6m.
C Ae. "Eart 8e ye r) roiavrr] avvovaia, eiirep
earai p£rd p.edri^, ovk d06pvô<;' r) ydp ;
52
LAWS, BOOK I
for if any were right at all, it was only in a few

details, and most of them were almost entirely on
the wrong lines.
CLIN. Wiiat do you mean by that. Stranger?
Kxplain yourself more clearly; for since we are
(as you observed) without any experience of such
institutions, even if we did come across them, we
would probably fail to see at once what was right in
them and what wrong.
.ATH. That is very probable. Try, however, to
learn from my description. This you understand
that in all gatherings and associations for any
purpose whatsoever it is right that each group should
always have a commander.
n.iN. Of course.
ATH. Moreover, we have recently said that the
commander of fighting men must be courageous.
CLIN. Of course.
.ATH. The courageous man is less perturbed by
alarms than the coward.
CLIN. That is true, too.
ATH. Now if there had existed any device for
putting an army in charge of a general who was
absolutely impervious to fear or perturbation, should
we not have made every effort to do so ?
ATH. But what we are discussing now is not the
man who is to command an army in time of war, in
meetings of foe with foe, but the man who is to
command friends in friendly association with friends
in time of peace.
CLIN. Quite so.
ATH. Such a gathering, if accompanied by
drunkenness, is not free from disturbance, is it?
S3
PLATO
KA. ITft)9 7tt/3 ; aXX' oo/xai ttolv rovvavriov,
A0. OvKovv irpcoTov /J,€P Kal TOVTOL<i dp-)(Ovroi
Sec ;
KA. Tt
fjCijv ; Q}<i ovSevi ye rrpdy/xaTi.
Ae.rioTepov ovv aOopvôv, el Swarov e'crj, tov

ToiovTov apxovTa iKiropLêadai Bel;
KA. lleo? yap ov ;
A&. Kal ixrjv irepi ye (Tvvov<Tta<;, co? eoixev,
avrov (ppovi/xov elvat Sel. yLyverai, yap cf>vXa^
D Tr)9 re VTrap')(ovari<i (f)i,\ia<; Kal en TrXelo-
avToi<;,
vo<i e7rifie\-r]Tr]<; 67r(jo<i earai Bia ttjv t6t€ ^vvov-
aiav.
KA. 'AXrjdearaTa.
A0. OvKovv
vrjfiôvTd T€ Kal <T0(f)6v dpôvra
fieOvoPTwv Kadiardvai, Kal /xij rovvavriov ;
Bel
fiedvovTfov yap /xeOvwv Kal veo^ dp^wv /jltj ao^6<i,
el fiT] KaKOV direpydcratTo ti /neya, iroWfj
XP^""^
dv dyaOfi tvxv-
KA. ria/xTToA-X?; fiev ovv.
A0. OvKovv el fiev yiyvofievoyv &)? Bwarov op66-
Tara tovtcov ev ral^ TroXecri roiv ûvovcriMv
E fie/j,(f)0iT6 Ti<}, eTTiKaXoiv avrw to) Trpdyfiari, rd^
dp 6pdo)<i ifTO)? /i-e/i0otTO' el Be dâpravofievov to?
olov re ixdXicTTa eTTiTrjBevfid Tt9 opSiv XoiBopel,
"npwTOv fiev BrjXov o)? dyvoel tout avTo yiyvo-
fiei'ov ovK 6p6oii<i, elO^ OTi irdv rovro) to) rpoTrcp
<f>apelTai Trovijpov, Kal dpxovTO<;
BeanroTOv re
vij<f)0VT0^ X'^pl'i ov ^vvpoelf
irpaTToixevov. rj
641 TovO\ OTi fiedvcov Kvêpvi]Tr)<; Kal Tra? 7ravT0v dvaTpeirei TrdvTa etre irXola €it€ dppuiTa
eiVe (TTpaTorceBop, eiO^ o tI ttot etrj to Kvêpv(o/j,e-
vov vtt' avrov ;
54
LAWS, BOOK 1
CLIN. Certainly not ;

quite the reverse, I imagine.
ATH. So those people also need, in the first place,
a commander ?
CLIN. —
Undoubtedly they above all.
ATH. Should we, if possible, provide them with a
commander who is imperturbable ?
CLIN. Certainly.
ATH. Naturally, also, he should be wise about
social gatherings. For he has both to preserve the
friendliness which already exists among the company
iiid to see that the present gathering promotes it still
further.
CLIN. Very true.
ATH. Then the commander we
set over drunken
men should be sober and wise, rather than the
opposite? For a commander of drunkards who was
himself drunken, young, and fooHsh would be very
lucky if he escaped doing some serious mischief.
CLIN. Uncommonly lucky.
ATH.Suppose, then, that a man were to find
fault with such institutions in States where they are
managed in the best possible way, having an objection
to the institution in itself, he might perhaps be right
in doing so but if a man abuses an institution when
;
he sees it managed in the worst way possible, it is

plain that he is ignorant, first, of the fact that it is
badly conducted, and secondly, that every institution
will appear similarly bad when it is carried on without
a sober ruler and commander. For surely you per-
ceive that a sea-captain, and every commander of
anything, if drunk, upsets everything, whether it be
a ship or a chariot or an army or anything else that
is under his captaincy.
55
PLATO
KA. YlavTUTracn rovro ye dXi]Oe<; etprjKai;, o)
^€V€' tovttI tASc 8' rjfitv Xeye, tC ttot, av ylyvTjrai

Tovro 6pOa)<; ^ to Trepl Ta<; 7r6crei<i vofii/jbov, ayadov
av hpdaeiev r^pd^ ; olov o vvv Srj iXiyopev, el
(TTpaTevpa 6pdr)<i rjy€povia<; Tvy)(^dvoi, vlkt] iroXe-
pov T0t9 €iTop€voi<; dv yiyvoLTO, ov apiKpov
dyaOov, koI raW ovtco' avpTroaCov 8e 6pdo)<i
B TTaiSaycoyrjOei'To^ TV piiya ISicorai^ rj t^ iroXei
yiyvoLT dv ;
A0. Tt he ; TraiBo^ evb^ rj koX x^P^^ irai-
BaycoyqffevToî Kara Tpoirov ivb<? evo? pev ^pa^v ttj ttoXci
yiyvoir dv ocfêXo'i, ei 5' oXw; ip(oTa<; TraiZeiav
Tbiv TraiSevOevTwv, tl peya ti]v ttoXiv ovlvrjaiv, ov
XO'Xe'Kov eiirelv on 7raiS€v6tVT€ep€i koI
viKTjv, VLKTj 8' evioTe diraihevaiav ttoXXoi yap
v^picFTorepoi hid iroXep.wv v'tKak yevopeuoc p,vpL(ov
dXXrov KaK&v hi v^piv ev€7rXi']a9r}(Tav, Kal irai-
heia pev ovheircoTrore yeyove Kahpeia, vlxai he
dvOpoiiTToa TToXXaX hr] TOiavrai yeyovaai re Kal
eaovTai.
KA. Ao/cet? r/plv, 0) (f>iXe, rrjv ev roif ocvoi<{
D KOLVTjv hiarpi^rjv &)<? el<; Traihela^; peydXrjv polpav

Teivovaav Xejeiv, dv 6pdS)<i yiyvrjTau.
* bpSws Schanz : opOhv MSS.

5«
LAWS, BOOK I
CLIN. What you say, Stranger, is perfectly true.

In the next place, then, tell us this :— suppose this
institution ot drinking were rightly conducted, of
what possible benefit would it be to us.'' Take the
case of an army, which we mentioned just now :
there, given a right leader, his men will win victory

in war, which is no small benefit and so too with
;
the other cases but what solid advantage would

:
accrue either to individuals or to a State from the

right regulation of a wine-party ?
ATH. Well, what great gain should we say would
accrue to the State from the right control of one
single child or even of one band of children ? To
the question thus put to us we should reply that the
State would benefit but little from one if, however, ;
you are putting a general question as to what solid

advantage the State gains from the education of the
educated, then it is quite simple to reply that well-
educated men will prove good men, and being good
they will conquer their foes in battle, besides acting
nobly in other ways. Thus, while education brings
also victory, victory sometimes brings lack of educa-
tion ; for men have often grown more insolent
because of victory in war, and through their inso-
lence they have become filled with countless other
vices ; and whereas education has never yet proved
to be " Cadmeian," ^ the victories which men win
in war often have been, and will be, "Cadmeian."
CLIN. You are implying, my friend, as it seems to
us, that the convivial gathering, when rightly con-
ducted, is an important element in education.
^ i.e. involving more loss than gain —a proverbial ex-
pression, possibly derived from the fate of the "Sparti"
(sprung from the dragon's teeth sown by Cadmus, founder
of Thebes)who slew one another op. " Pyrrhic " victory.
:
57
PLATO
Ae. Tt fjLtjv
KA. "Eô/? av ovv TO /xera tovt^ elTreiv cos
ecTTi TO vvv elprjfiei'ov dXi]Oe<; ;
A0. To fjiev d\i]Oe'i, w êve, hiLa')(ypiê(Tdai

TavTa ovTca<; €-)(jeiv, iroWoiv dfi<pia0rjTovvTcov,
deov' el S' OTTr) ifiol (âiveTat, hel Xeyeiv, ovSei'i
(pOovo^:, eTreiirep oipfxi^Kapêv ye Toy<? X6yov<; irepl
voficov KoL TToXtTeta? TroielcrOai. to, vvv.
KA. Tout avTO Si] ireipdop-eda to ao\ hoKovv
E TT€p\ Twv vvv dp,(f)icrî]Tovp,€vo)v KUTafiadeiv.
Ae. 'AXXa ^PV ttoicIv ovt(o<;, v/j,d<i re irrl to
fiadelv Kol ifie eVl to hrjXoicraL Treipoifievov d/xco'i
ye ^vvTetvai tov \6yov.

7r&)9 irpuTov Be fiov
dKovaaTG to ToiovBe' Tr]v ttoXlv diravTe'i rjfiMV
vTroXa/M^dvovaiv &)? (f)cX6\oy6<i re icrTt
"EtXXr]V€<i
Kol TToXvXoyo'i, AaKeSai/xova Be Kal K.p}]Tr)v, ttjv
fiev ^pa^vXoyov, ttjv Be iroXvvoiav ixdXXov rj
642 TToXvXoyiav daKovaav. ckottS} Bt) fit] Boâv vp.lv
Trapd(T^(i}p,ai rrepl ap.t,Kpov iroXXd Xeyeiv, p,e9r]<i
TTepi a-pbiKpov 7rpdyp,aT0<; 7rap,p.i]Kr) Xoyov uvaKU-
Oatp6p,evo<;. to Be 77 /cara <f)vaiv avTOv BiopOcocriî
ovK dv BvvaiTO dvev p,ovariKi]<; 6pB6Tr]T6<i iroTe
cra(f)6<i ovB^ iKavov ev Tot<; X6yoi<; diroXaêlv
p,ovaiKr) Be dvev TraiBeLa<i t?}? Trdarjii ovk dv av
TTOTe BvvaiTO' TavTU Be Trap-iroXXoyv eVrt Xoycov.
opaTe ovv tL iroiwp.eV el raOra p.ev edaai/xev ev
B Tft) irapovTi, /j,€T€Kâip,ev S' et? eTepov Tiva vofxtov
TTepi Xoyov.
ME. 'fl êve ^ AOrjvale, ovk olaO' lo-at^ oti
Tvys^dvei rjp,(ii)v rj eaTia t^9 TroXew? ovaa vp,a)v
irpoêvo^. Xaa)<i pêv ovv xal irdcri rot? iraiaiv,
58
LAWS, BOOK I
ATH. Assuredly.
CLIN. Could you then show us, in the next place,
how this statennent is true ?
ATH. The truth of my statement, which is dis-

puted by many, it is for God to assert ; but I am
quite ready to give, if required, my own opinion,
now that we have, in fact, embarked on a discussion
of laws and constitutions.
CLIN. Well, it is precisely your opinion about the
questions now in dispute that we are trying to learn.
ATH. —
Thus, then, we must do, you must brace
yourself in the effort to learn the argument, and I
to expound it as best I can. But, first of all, 1 have
a preliminary observation to make our city, Athens,
:
is, in the general oj)inion of the Greeks, both fond
of talk and full of talk, but Lacedaemon is scant of

talk, while Crete is more witty ^ than wordy so I am ;
afraid of making you think that I am a great talker

about a small matter, if I spin out a discourse of
prodigious length about the small matter of drunken-
ness. But the fact is that the right ordering of this
could never be treated adequately and clearly in our
discourse apart from rightness in music, nor could
music, apart from education as a whole and these ;
require lengthy discussions. Consider, tlien, what

we are to do suppose we leave these matters over for
:
the present,and take up some other legal topic instead.

MEG. O Stranger of Athens, you are not, per-
haps, aware that our family is, in fact, a "prox-
enus " 2 of your State. It is probably true of all
^ A polite way of alluding to the pro%'erbial mendacity of

the Cretans (cp. Ep. Tihis i. 12 Kprires del ;^«i;<TToi).
:
* A "proxenua" was a native who acted as official

representative of a foreign State.
59
PLATO
eireiBav aKOvaaxrcu on Tit-o? elcri ttoXco)? irpo-
êvoi, TavTij Tt? evvota e/t vecov €uOu<i ivBveTai
eKaarov [»}yna)j^ tmv irpoêvoiv ttj TroXei],^ a)S
Bevrepa ovarj TrarpiSt fiCTa rr}v avrov iroXiv' koX
hr) Koi ifiol vvv ravro tovto eyyeyoveu. ukovcov yap
C roiv iraihoov evdv<i, ei ri /u,6p-(f)oivTO t) Kal enaivoiev
AaKeBatpovioc ^KdrjvaLovi, o)? r] ttoXl's vp,o>v, o)
MeyiWe, €(f)acrav, r)p,a<; ov /taXco? rj KaXa)<i eppeê,
—raina Brj ukovcov kol /jLa^6fievo<; Trpo? avTU virep
vpLcav ael rrpo9 ocrot AOrjvaLcov elalv ayaOol Bta(f)€p6vTCi)<; elal
^
ToiovToi, BoKCL aXfjOecTTaTa Xeyeadai' pLovoi yap

D avev avayKi(]<i, avTO(f)Vcii)<i [dela polpa, aXr]d6i)<;
Kal ov Ti TTXacrTcb<i] ^ elcrlv ayado'i. dappoiv Brj .
e/jLOv ye evexa Xiyoi<i av roaavra oiroaa aoi

<f)i,\ov.
KA. Kat fjirjv, (o êve, kuI tov irap ifiov Xoyov

aKov<ja<i re koX a-noBelâpevo'^ dappSiv oiroaa
ôvXet Xeye. rfjBe yap Icrca aKi]Koa<i tu? 'Ett*-
fxeviBr}^ yiyovev dvrjp 6eio<;, 09 '^v r)p,lv olKelo<i,
eXOcov Be nrpo tcov Uepai/ccov Se«a erecri irporepov
Trap vp.d^ Kara rr)v tov deov fxavrelav Ovalat
re idvaaro rtva^, d<; 6 6e6<i dvetXe, Kal Btj Kal
(f)oôv/j,evQ)vTOV UepaiKOP ÂOrjvalcov cttoXov
E elirev oti BeKa fiev ctcov ovx rjôvaiv, orav Be
eXOcoaip, diraXXayrjaovTai irpdâvTe'i ovBev d)v
rfXiriôv iradovTe'i re rj Bpdaavre^ TrXeioy KaKd.
* \riiJ.S>v . . . it6Xei\ bracketed by Badhani, Schanz.

* [Oiia . . . ir\aarTwt] bracketed by Valckenaer.
60
i
LAWS, BOOK I
children that, when once they have been told that

they are proxeni " of a certain State, they con-
*•'
ceive an affection for that State even from infancy,

and each of them regards it as a second mother-
land, next after his own country. That is precisely
the feeling I now experience. For through hearing
—
mere children crying out whenever they, being the
Lacedaemonians, were blaming the Athenians for
—
anything or praising them "Your State, Megillus,
has done us a bad turn or a good one," through—
hearing such remarks, I say, and constantly fighting
your battles against those who were thus decrying
your State, I acquired a deep affection for it so that ;
now not only do I delight in your accent, but I

regard as absolutely true the common saying that
"good Athenians are always incomparably good,"
for they alone are good not by outward compulsion
but by inner disposition. Thus, so far as I am con-
cerned, you may speak without fear and say all you
please.
CLIN. My story, too. Stranger, when you hear it,
will show you that you may boldly say all you wish.
You have probably heard how that inspired man
Epimenides, who was a family connexion of ours,
was born in Crete and how ten years ^ before the
;
Persian War, in obedience to the oracle of the god,

he went to Athens and offered certain sacrifices
which the god had ordained and how, moreover,
;
when the Athenians were alarmed at the Persians'

expeditionary force, he made this prophecy " They —
will not come for ten years, and when they do
come, they will return back again with all their
hopes frustrated, and after suffering more woes than
^ Epimenides really lived about 600 &c.
6i
PLATO.
TOT ovv iêvcoOrjaav u/jlIv oi Trpoyovoi r^fxtav, Kai
evvoiav ck toctov eycoye vjxlv koI ol rjixerepoi
643 e)(pvaL jov)]<;.
A0. Ta fieu roivvv v/jLcrepa aKovetv, ax; eoiKev,
eroijjb av etrj' /SovXecrOai fiev eroifMa,
to. S" e/xa
hvvaaOat, Se ov ttclvv pdSia, OfX(o<; Se ireipareov.
TTp&Tov Stj ovv tt/oo? tov Xojov optcrMfxeOa irai-
heiav tl ttot iarl koX riva Bvva/xiv eêt* 8ia

yap TauTT]^ (j)afu,ev Ireov elvai rov irpoKe)(ei.pi(T-
fievov €v Tw vvv \6yop v(f)' rjfxcbv, /j,e)(^pL7r€p av
TTyOO? TOV deOV d(f)ifCJjTat..
KA. Udvv fiev OVV Bpay/juev Tavra, etirep aol
ye 'qSv.
B A0. AeyovTO^ Tolvvv e/nov tl Trore XPh ^dvai
Tratheiav elvai, crKeyfraade av dpiaKij to Xex'Siv.
KA. Aeyoc<; av.
A0. Aeyco St/, Kai (pij/xi tov otiovv dyadov
avSpa fxeWovTa eaeaOai tovto uvto ix iraiâyv
€vdv<; p,e\eTav helv iraiôvTa re Kal (nrovSdôvTa
iv TOL<; TOV 7rpdyfj,aT0<; eKaaTois irpocnj/cova-iv'
olov TOV fieWovTa dyaOov eaeadai yecopyov rj
C Tiva oIkoBo/jlov, tov fiev olkoSo/jLOvvtu tl tS)V

TratSeicov olKoSofiTjfxaTcov naiêiv XP^> '^^^ ^' ^^
yewpyovvTa, Kal opyava eKarepw a/xiKpa, tcov
dXrjOcvcov fiifirjfjiaTa, irapaaKcvdêtv tov Tpe(f)0VTa
avTcov eKaTcpov' Kal hrj Kal t(ov ixadrip,dTO)v oaa
dvayKala Trpo/xep.aOrjKevat Trpo/xavOaveiv, olov

TeKTova fxeTpelv i) cnadpLaadai Kal •iTo\ep,iKOv
iirireveiv -rraiôvTa rj ri tcov toiovtcov dWo
TTOielv,^Kal Treipdadai St a tmv Traihitav eKeiae
Tpeneiv to.? T)Bovd<; Kal eViû/ita? twi/ iralScov,
^ voiuv Boeckh, Schanz : iroiovvra MSS.
62
LAWS, BOOK I
they inflict." Then our forefathers became guest-

friends of yours, and ever since both my fathers
and I myself have cherished an affection for
Athens.
ATM. Evidently, then, you are both ready to play
your part as listeners. But as for my part, though
the will is there, to compass the task is hard still, :
I must try. In the first place, then, our argument

requires that we should define education and describe
its effects that is the path on which our present
:
discourse must proceed until it finally arrives at the

god of Wine.
CLIN. By all means let us do so, since it is your
wish.
ATH. Then while I am stating how education
ought to be defined, you must be considering
whether you are satisfied with my statement.
CLIN. Proceed with your statement.
ATH. I will. What I assert is that every man
who going to be good at any pursuit must practise
is
that special pursuit from infancy, by using all the

implements of his pursuit both in his play and in his
work. For example, the man who is to make a
good builder must play at building toy houses, and
to make a good farmer he must J)lay at tilling land ;
and those who are rearing them must provide each

child with toy tools modelled on real ones. Besides
this, they ought to have elementary instruction in
all —
the necessary subjects, the carpenter, for in-
stance, being taught in play the use of rule and
measure, the soldier taught riding or some similar
accomplishment. So, by means of their games, we
should endeavour to turn the tastes and desires or
the children in the direction of that object which
63
PLATO
ot axf)iKonevov<; ctutou? Set TeXo<i eyeiv. K€(})d\aioi
D or) TTaioeia'i Xe'yo/j.ei^ ttjv 6pdt]v Tpo(f)^v, r) rot
TratôvTO'i rr]v yfrv)(^r)v et? epa)Ta fidXiaTa dêi
TOVTOv, o dvhp avrov reXetov
Bejjaet yevofievov
ecvat rov Trpdy/naTOf: dpeTrj<i' opdre ovv ei
rfjf;
fie^pi TOVTOV ye, oirep elirov, v/jlcv dpeaxei to

Xex'dev.
KA. Da)? ydp 01)
A0. J\I^ Toivvv fir}8^ Xeyofxev elvai TraiBeiav
dopicTTOv yivijrat. vvv yap 6veiht,ôvT€ ^ re KaTTrfXeia<i Kal
vavKXi]pva<; kol dXXcov toioutwv jxdXa Treirai-
Bevfievov acfioSpa dvO pwirov'^ ov yap ravTa
rjyovfievcov, q)9 'ioLKSv, elvai iraiheiav o vvv
\6yo<i dv €17), Tr)v Se tt/jo? dpcTrjv eK TraiBtov
TraiBelav, jroiovaav €7n6vfir)Ti]v re Kal epaa-Tijv
TOV ttoXlttjv yeveaOat TeXeov, dpjêiv re Kal dp-
')(ecrdai einaTdp.evov [xerd Bi,KJ]<i. ravTrjv ttjv
544 Tpo(f)r)v d(f)opiadfievoii 6 X6yo<; ovto<;, o)? e'/iol
(fâiveTai, vvv ôvXolt dv fiovijv iraiBeiav irpocr-

ayopevetv, ttjv Be ei<i '^(pyj/xaTa Tclvovaav rj riva
7r/)09 Ic^x^vvfj Kal irpo^ dXXrjv Tivd aoîav dvev
vov Kal BiKr]<; ^dvavcrov t elvai Kal dveXevOepov
Kal ovK dîav to jrapdnav iraiBeiav KaXelaOai.
t)fiei<; Brj p-rfBev ovofxaTi BiacftepcofieO avTol<^, dXX^
6 vvv Brj Xoyo^ jxeveTw, wf oi ye
rj/xlv 6 p.oXoyrid el : fit MSS. (iTf-dyinara for fj.i\a Ast, alii alia).
64
LAWS, BOOK I
forms their ultimate goal. First and foremost, educa-

tion, we say, consists in that right nurture which
most strongly draws the soul of the child when at
play to a love lor that pursuit of which, when he
becomes a man, he must possess a perfect mastery.
Now consider, as I said before, whether, up to this
point, you are satisfied with this statement of mine.
CLIN. Certainly we are.
ATH. But we must not allow our description of
education to remain indefinite. For at present, when
censuring or commending a man's upbringing, we
describe one man as educated and another as unedu-
cated, though the latter may often be uncommonly
well educated in the trade of a pedlar or a skipper,
or some other similar occupation. But we, naturally,
in our present discourse are not taking the view that
such things as these make up education the educa- :
tion we speak of is training from childhood in good-

ness, which makes a man eagerly desirous of becoming
a perfect citizen, understanding how both to rule
and be ruled righteously. This is the special form
of nurture to which, as I suppose, our present argu-
ment would confine the term "education" whereas ;
an upbringing which aims only at money-making or

physical strength, or even some mental accomplish-
ment devoid of reason and justice, it would term
vulgar and illiberal and utterly unworthy of the
name "education." Let us not, however, quarrel
over a name, but let us abide by the statement we
agreed upon just now, that those who are rightly
educated become, as a rule, good, and that one
should in no case disparage education, since it stands
' iTfTraiSfvfifyov . . . iyOpuiitov Comarius : xeiraiSfvfifyurv
• . . aidpdituv MSS.
65
PLATO
TrpwTOv Tfov KaWiaTCOv TOi<? dvBpdai
api(TTOi<;
Trapaytyvofievov Koi et iroTe e^€p)(êTai, hvvarov
8' ecTTiv eTTavopdovadai, tovt del hpaareov hid
0LOV iravrl Kara hyvap-iv.
KA. 'OpOw, Kal <Tvy^Q)povfi€v a Xeyei^;.
A0. Kat fiTjv irdXai ye avve\oipTi](Tap,ev 0)9
dyad(i)v fikv ovtwv t(ov Svvafievwv apxîv avTQ)v,

KaKcav Se ro)v firj.
KA. Aiy€i<; opQoTara.

A0. Xa(f)€(TT€pov en rocvvv dvaXd^cofxev tovt
C aiiTO o TV TTore \eyop.ev. kuL p-oi Si" elK6vo<i
dTToBeâaOe idv ttw? BvuaTO<; vfilv yevcofiat
Brj\(t)aai to toiovtov,
KA. Ae7e pbovou.
A0. OvKOVv eva /xev rjixiov eKaaTOv avrav
Ti06i)fj,€v ;
KA. Nat.
A0. Auo Be KeKTrjfxevov iv avTw ^vfxôvXco
evavTifo T€ Ka\ d(ppove, o) irpoaayopevofiev r)hovr]v
Koi Xvirrjv ;
KA. "EcTTi TavTa.

A.0. 11/909 Se TOVTOiv dfi(f)olv av S6â<i fieX-
\6vTcov, olv KOivov fiev ovo/jLa eA,7rt?, IBiov Be
<p6ô<; fiep rj trpo Xvtttj^; eX7ri<;, Odppof Be rj irpo
D Tov evavTiov. eirX Be irdai tovtol^ Xoyicrp.6<i, 6
TL ttot' avToyv d/xeivov rj 'êlpov 09 yevo/nevo^;
Boyfia 7roXe£y9 kolvov v6/iio<; eTTcovofiaaTat.
KA. Mo7i9 fiev 7rft)9 eêiroiiat, Xeye firjv to
fierd TavTa 0)9 eTrofievov.
66
LAWS, BOOK I
first among that are given to the best

tiie finest gifts
men ; and if from the right path, but can
ever it errs
be put straight again, to this task every man, so long
as he lives, must address himself with all his might.
CLIN. You are right, and we agree with what you
say.
ATH. Further, we agreed long ago that if men are
capable of ruling themselves, they are good, but if
incapable, bad.
CLIN. Quite true.
ATH. Let us, then, re-state more clearly what we
meant by this. VV'ith your permission, 1 will make
use of an illustration in the hope of e.xplauung the
matter.
CLIN. Go ahead.
ATH. May we assume that each of us by himself
is a single unit.''
CLIN. Yes,
ATH. And that each f>ossesses within himself two
antagonistic and foolish counsellors, whom we call by
the names of pleasure and pain .''
CLIN. That is so.

ATH. And that, besides these two, each man
possesses opinions about the future, which go by the
general name of " expectations " ; and of these,
that which precedes pain bears the special name of
" fear," and that which precedes pleasure the special
name of "confidence " ; and in addition to all these
there is "calculation," pronouncing which of them
is good, which bad and "calculation," when it has
;
become the public decree of the State, is named

" law."
CLIN. I have some difficulty in keeping pace with
you : assume, however, that 1 do so, and proceed.
67
PLATO
ME. Kal ev ifiol /xrjv ravro tovto TrdOo<i evi.
A0. V[ep\ hrj Tovrtov 8tavorj0ci)f^€v ovTcoat.
Oavfia fxev e/caa-rov rjfxoov rjyija-fofieda tcov ôowv
Oelov, €iT6 ft)? Traiyviov eKeivcov eiTe to? (nrovBrj
Tivl ^vveari-iKO^' ovyap Brj tovto ye ytyvcoaKOfiev
E ToBe Be tcTfiev, otc TavTa to. Trddrj ev rj/j,iv olov
vevpa r) firjpivOoi TLVs<i ivovaai cnroxri re jj/ia?
Koi dWri\.at,<; dvdeXKOvaiv ivavTiai ovaai 67r'
ivavTLa<; Trpdêi^;, ov Brj BicopicrfxevT} dpeTT} kcu
KaKia KecTur fiid yap (fyrjaiv 6 \6yo<i Belv twv
eXêoiv ^vveir6pi€vov del ical nyBa/jLJj dTroXeirro-
fj,€vov eKeivr)<; dudeX/ceiu TOt'; dXXoi<; vevpoi<i e'/ca-
645 (TTOV, TavTrju B' elvat tyjv tov Xoyiafiov dycoyrjv
')(^pv(rrjv Kal lepdv, tt}? TroXeo)? koivov vofiov ini-
KoXov pLevrjv dXXa<i Be <TKXr)pd<; Kal aiBripd<i, ttjv

,
Be fiaXaKrjv <ipiav re^ ^ aTe ^pvarjv ovaav, rrt?

Be dXXa<; TrauToBaTTol<; eiBeaiv 6p.oia<i' Belv Br) ttj
KaXXicTTrj dywyfi rfj tov vopov del ^vXXa/x/Sdveiv'
aTe yap tov Xoyia/j.ov koXov /xev 6Vto<?, irpdov Be
Kal ov ^laiov, BelaOai vTnjpeTwv avTOv ttju dyco-
yr]u, OTTO)? di/ <Cjv'^'qp.lv to ^pvcrovv yevo<; viko, Ta
B dXXa yef?;. Kal ovtq) Br) irepl davp,dTO)V &)? ovtcov
r)poov 6 ixv6o<; dp eTi ^ aecroycrpevo^; dv eiT), Kal
TO KpeoTTO) eavTOV Kal rjTTO) elvai Tpoirov Tiva cjyav-
epov dv y'lyvoLTO pud'KXov o voel, Kal oti ttoXiv Kal
IBtfoTTjv, tov fiev Xoyov dXrj6P} XaôvTa ev eavTO)
irepl TMv eXêcov tovtcov tovtw eTro/xevov Bel ^fjv,
^
troXiv Be rj irapd dewv TLVO I insert (Schanz marks lacuna after ovaav),

* &p' fTi Badham: aptr^s MSS.
68
LAWS, BOOK I
MEG. I am in exactly the same predicament.

ATH. Let us conceive of the matter in this way.
Let us suppose that each of us hvin^ creatures is an
ingenious puppet of the gods, whether contrived by
way of a toy of theirs or for some serious purpose for —
as to that we know nothing but this we do know, that
;
these inward affections of ours, like sinews or cords,

drag us along and, being opposed to each other, pull
one against the other to opposite actions and herein ;
lies the dividing line between goodness and badness.

For, as our argument declares, there is one of these
pulling forces which every man should always follow
and nohow leave hold of, counteracting thereby the
pulloftheother sinews: it is theleading-string,golden
and holy, of " calculation," entitled the public law
of the State and whereas the other cords are hard and
;
steely and of every possible shape and semblance,

this one is flexible and uniform, since it is of gold.
With that most excellent leading-string of the law
we must needs co-operate always for since calcula-
;
tion is excellent, but gentle rather than forceful, its

leading-string needs helpers to ensure that the golden
kind within us may vanquish the other kinds. In this
way our story comparing ourselves to puppets will not
"
fall flat, and the meaning of the terms ** self-superior
and "self-inferior" will become somewhat more
clear, and also how necessary it is for the individual
man to grasp the true account of these inward pulling
forces and to live in accordance therewith, and how
necessary for the State (when it has received such
an account either from a god or from a man who
knows) to make this into a law for itself and be
• wop' av9pd>itou TOW : vapa Toirov rov MSS. (wopo airrov
TovTov Eusebius).
69
PLATO
vrjv, avrfi T€ ofjîXelv /cal rat? TToXeaiv. aWaa
C ovTco Kai KUKia or] kuI aperrj <Ta(f)€(rT€pou i]fjuv
Bir}p6pco/jL€vov av evapyecTTepov S" avrov
eh].
yevofieifov Kal raWa irmr]Zevp.ara
Traiheia koX
l(T(o<i earai paWov Karaâvr], xal 8t] Kal to irepl
tt)? eV Tot9 oivot^ SiaTpi^P]^;, o hoâadeir] /xev av

eivai (pavXov irept ixyjko^ ttoXv Xoycov TrepiTTOv
elp-qfjiivov, (paveLT] ^ 8e to-X av tcrw? tov p.i]Kov<:
7' avroiv ovK arrdîov.
KA. Eu Xeyei^, Kal TrepaLvco/nev o rt jrep av
T>7? ye vvv 8iaTpi^r]<; dîov yiyvrjTai.
D A0. A eye hr]- 7rpoa(pepovTe<; rw Oavfiari toutw
Trî^ p,eSr]v TToiov Tt TTore avro aTrepyaôpêOa ;
KA. Upo'i Tt Be aKOTrovfx,evo<} avTO eTravepQ}Td<;

A&. (JvSeV TTOi 77/309 O Tt, TOVTO 8e oXfOf; KOLVW-
vrjaav tovtm ttoIov ti ^vp^Triirrei, yiyveaOai. en
he aa(f)€(TTepov o ôvXopai Tretpdao/xai (f)pd^€Lv.
epcoTO) yap to roiovSe' apa aôhpmepa'^ rdi;
rjSova^ Kal XvTTa^ koI Ov/jlov'; Kal eptora^ 77 tcov
oivwv TToai^ iirireiveL ;
KA. XloXv ye.

B A0. Tt 8' av Ta? aladr]aeL<i Kal p.v7]p,a<; Kal
Boâ^ Kal ^povijaec^ ; iroTepov wcrauTW? aôhpo-
repa's, r] TrdpnTav diroXeiiTei ravra avrov, av
KaTaKopr']<; rt? t^ p-^dr] yiyvtjrai
KA. Nat, Trdp-irav diroXelTreL.
A0. OvKovv eh ravTov d(f)iKveiTai rrjv t^?
yfrvx^î eîv tj] Tore ore veo<; rjv 7rat9 ;
^ Zur. assigns (paveiri . . . dTrd^tov to Clin., e5 \4yeis . . .
ylyvriTai to Ath., and A4yf Sri to Clin.: I follow Hermann

and later edd.
70
LAWS, BOOK I
guided thereby in its intercourse both with itself

and with all other States. Thus both badness and
goodness would be differentiated for us more clearly;
and these having become more evident, probably
education also and the other institutions will appear
less obscure and about the institution of the wine-
;
party in particular it may very likely be shown that

it is by no means, as might be thought, a paltry
matter which it is absurd to discuss at great length
but rather a matter which fully merits prolonged
discussion.
CLIN. Quite right let us go through with every
:
topic that seems important for the present discussion.

ATH. Tell me now if we give strong drink to
:
this puppet of ours, what effect will it have on its

character ?
CLIN. In reference to what particular do you ask

this question ?
ATH. To no particular, for the moment I am :
putting the question in general terms " when this —

shares in that, what sort of thing does it become in
consequence?" I will try to convey my meaning
still more clearly what
ask is this does the
: I —
drinking of wine intensify pleasures and pains and
passions and lusts ?
CLIN. Yes, greatly.
ATH. And how about sensations and recollections
and opinions and thoughts ? Does it make them
likewise more intense ? Or rather, do not these
quit a man entirely if he becomes surfeited with
drink?
CLIN. Yes, they quit him entirely.
ATH. He then ;irrives at the same condition of
soul as when he was a young child ?
7«
PLATO
KA. Tt fJLrjV ;
A0. "HKiara Brj tot av av7Q<; avrov 'yi'yvcno

iyxpaTijî.
646 KA. "H/fiaTa.
A0. 'Ap' ovv TTOvrjpoTaTO^;, (fia/xej', 6 roiovro^ ;
KA. lloXv ye.

A0. Qv fiovov ap , ft)9 eoLKev, 6 jepcov 8l<; Trait;
ytyvoiT^ av, ciWa xal o /xeOvadel,^.

KA. " Apicna 6t7re<>, <w êve.
A0. TouTOf hrj rov iTTiTrjBeufiaTot; ecrd* o<tti<;

X0709 eTTLyêLprjcreL ireideiv r]fxa<; to? ^/o^ yeveadai
KoL fiT] (pevyeiv iravrX aOevet Kara to hvvarov ;
KA. "Eot/t' elvai' crv yoOv (f)r/<; koI €roifio<i
rforda vvv Sij \eyeiv.
B A0. Â\rj0Pj /xevTOi p.v7j/xovev€t^. Kal vvv 7'
eifu €TOi/jLO<i,e7r€i87]7rep crcfxa ye ideXijaeiv Trpodvfi(o<i

€<f)aTOV CLKoveiv.
KA. Ilwf 8' ovK aKOvcrofieda ; kuv el fxrjSevo^;
dWov %«/9tt', dWa rov
Oav/xacrTOv ye Kal droTrov,
el Set eKovra irore avdpunrov et? airaaav (pavXoTTjTU
eavTov ep-fSdWeiv.
A0. '^v')(rj ; dav-
p^dôipLev av ei irore rt? ckwv eirl to roiovrov
C d(f>iKveirai ;
KA. rift)? ydp ov ;

A0. Tt ovvel<i;rd larpela avrov<{
rov<;
âBiôvra<; cttI <f)app,aK07roaLa dyvoelv olofieda
on p^r oXiyov varepov Kal eirl TroXXa? 7]p.epa<i
7*
LAWS, BOOK I
CLIN. He does.
ATH. So at tliat moment he will have very little
control of himselt"?
CLIN. Very little.
ATH. And sucha man is, we say, very bad ?
CLIN. Very, indeed.
ATH. It appears, then, that not the greybeard
only may be in his " second childhood," but the
drunkard as well.
CLIN. An admirable observation. Stranger.
ATH. Is there any argument which will undertake
to persuade us that this is a practice we ouglit to
indulge in, instead of shunning it with all our might
so far as we possibly can ?
CLiN. It appears that there is : at any rate you
assert this, and you were ready just now to argue it.
ATH. You are right in your reminder, and I am
still ready to do so, now that you and Megillus have
both expressed your willingness to listen to me.

CLIN. Of course we shall listen, if only on account
of the surprising paradox that, of his own free
will, a man ought to plunge into the depths of
depravity.
ATH. Depravity of soul, you mean, do you not ?
CLIN. Yes.
ATH. And how about plunging into a bad state
of body, such as leanness or ugliness or impotence ?
Should we be surprised if a man of his own free will
ever got into such a state r
CLIN. Of course we should.
ATH. Well then, do we suppose that persons who
go of themselves to dispensaries to drink medicines
are not aware that soon afterwards, and for many
days to come, they will find themselves in a bodily
73
PLATO
eôvai ToiovTov to awjxa olov el 8ia riXovi ej(êiv
jxeWoiev ^-^v ovk av Beâivro ; rj tou? iirl to,
yvfjLvaaia Kal tt6vov<; lovra^ ovk iafiev (w? aadevel^
et9 TO vapa's^prjâ yCyi'OVTat
KA. lldvTa ravra ta^xev.
A0. Kat OTt T^<? /LteTa ravra oKêXeta? evcKU
eKovre^; iropevovraL ;
D KA. KaXXtaTa.
A0. OvKOVV ^pr] KOI TMV dX\(i)V eTTlTTjSeVfldTCOV
nrept Biaroela-Oai tov avrou rpoirov ;
KA. Yldvv ye.
A0. Kat Trj<i irepl tov olvov dpa StaTpi^tj'i
ft)crauT&)9 SiavoTjreov, eiirep evi tovto iv Tovroi(;
op6oi<; 8iavoi]0i]vai.
KA. rica? 8' ov ;
A©. Av apa Tiva ^/j,iv wêXeiav eXovaa
(âLvrjrai fx-qhev rrj^ irepl to awfia iXaTTO), tj}
ye (ipyfj TTjv awp.a(TKLav viko, tw ttjv /xev /j,€t'
a\yrj8ovcov elvai, ttjv Se /u,t].

E Ky\. '0/3^(W9 Xiyei^, Oavficiôifii, S' av ei ti
Svvaifieda toiovtov ev avTui KaTaixadelv.
A0. ToGt' auTO 8ri vvv, &>? eot^, "H/^tv I'jSrj
TrecpaTeov (f^pdêiv. kui fioi Xiye' 8vo (poôov
elSy] a)(êB6v evavTca Swd/xeOa KaravoT^craL ;
KA. Yiola Bj) ;
A0. Ta TomSe* (i>oôvp,eda fxev ttov to, kuku,
'irpoaBoKO)VTe6fiov
77/iet9 y€, olfuii Be Kal navTC^, ala-^vvrjv.
74
LAWS, BOOK I
condition such as would make life intolerable^ if it

were to last for ever ? And we know, do we not,
that men who go to the gymnasia for hard training
commence by becoming weaker ?
CLIN. All this we know.
ATH. We know also that they go there voluntarily
for the sake of the subsequent benefit ?
CLIN. Quite true.
ATH. Should one not take the same view of the
other institutions also ?
Certainly.
CLIN.
ATH. Then one must also take the same view ot
the practice of wine-drinking, if one can rightly class
it amongst the others.
CLIN. Of course one
must.
ATH. If then this practice should be shown to be
quite as beneficial for us as bodily training, certainly
at the outset it is superior to it, in so far as it is not,
like bodily training, accompanied by pain.
CLIN. That is true but I should be surprised if
;
we succeeded in discovering in it any benefit.

ATH. That is precisely the point which we must
at once try to make plain. Tell me now can we :
discern two kinds of fear, of which the one is nearly

the opposite of the other .''
CLIN. What kinds do you mean ?

ATH. These when we expect evils to occur, we
:
fear them.
CLIN. Yes.
ATH. And often we fear reputation, when we think
we shall gain a bad repute for doing or saying some-
thing base and this fear we (like everybody else, I
;
imagine) call shame.

' Evidently, drastic purgatives were commonly prescribed,
75
PLATO
KA. Ti 8' ov ;
Ae. TouTouv ^Tj hvo eXeyov <fi6ôv<;' mv o
€T€po<i (uavTLO<i fi€v Tul^ dXyTjBoai koI TOi? aWoif
(f)6/3oi<;, ivavrio^ 8' ecrrt ratv irXeiarai'} KUi
fi€yi(7rai<; r)8ovai<;.
KA. ÔpdoTUTU \iy€i<i.

A0. 'A/3' ovv ov Kal * vofjLO$€Tr)(;, Kal Tra? oy
âl afiiKpov o(f)€\o'i, tovtop top (f)6ôv iv rcfifj
ae^€i Kal, Kokoiiv alBco, to toutw 6dppo<i

/jLeyiCTTr]
ivavTiov dpaiBetdu re Trpoaayopevei Kal /xeytaTOv

B KUKov Ihla re Kal h-qpLoaia Tract vevo/J.iK€P ;
KA. Ôpdu)<; \iy€i<i.
Ae. OvKovv TO, T aWa iroWa Kal fieydXa o
(f)6ô<; rj/jLd<; ovro^t crwêi, Kal rrjv iv ru> iroXipiw
I'LKrjv Kal acorrjpiau ev Trp6iX(Ov
Se (poô^ alo^vvr)<; rrepl KdKtjs.^
KA. "Kan ravra.
A0. "Acfioôv rjpciyv dpa Bet yiyveaOai Kat
C (poêpov eKaarov wv S' eKdrepov ev€Ka, Bi7jp7]/j,e6a.
KA. Tldvv fiev ovv.
A0. Kal pbr}V d(f)o^6v ye CKaarov ôvXr^devTC^
TTOielv (f)6^(OV TToXXiOV TlVO)V, 6i9 (})60ov ayovTC^
ainov perd vbpuov roiovrov direpyaôpieda.
KA. 'i>aLi'6peda.
A0. Tt S' orav i7n')(êip(i)p,ev Tiva (poêpop
* oil Ka\ Ast : ovk hf Zur. , MSS.

* irtpl KaKrjs : irfpi Kanris MSS., edd.
76
LAWS, BOOK 1
CLIN. Of course.
ATH. These are the two fears I was meaning
and of these the second is opposed to pains and to
all other objects of fear, and opposed also to the
greatest and most numerous pleasures.*
CLIN. Very true.
ATH. Does
not, then, the lawgiver, and every
man who worth anything, hold this kind of fear in
is
the highest honour, and name it " modesty " and ;
to the confidence which is opposed to it does he not

give the name " immodesty," and pronounce it to be
for all, both publicly and privately, a very great
evil ?
CLIN. Quite right.

ATH. And
does not this fear, besides saving us in
many other important respects, prove more effective
than anything else in ensuring for us victory in war
and security ? For victory is, in fact, ensured by two
things, of which the one is confidence towards
enemies, the other, fear of the shame of cowardice in
the eyes of friends.
CLIN. That is so.
ATH, Thus each one of us ought to become both
fearless and fearful and that for the several reasons
;
we have now explained.

CLIN. Certainly.
ATH. make a person
Moreover, when we desire to
fearless in respect of a number
of fears, it is by draw-
ing him, with the help of the law, into fear that we
make him such.
CLIN. Apparently.
ATH. And how about the opposite case, when we
' i.e. shame, which fear of disgrace, induces fortitude
is
under pain and the power of resisting vicious pleasures.
77
VOL. I. D
PLATO
iroieiv jxeTCL SiK-rjî, ap" ovk avaia-)(yvTia ^Vfi^dX-
\ovTa<; avTov Kal tt pocr-yv ^vdiôvTa<i vikolv Sel
TToieiv hiaixa'Xôiievov aurov rat? -^Soval^; ; rj rfj
fiev heiSla ttj iv avro) Trpoa/xaô/xevov Kal viKWVTa

D avTTjv Set reXeov ovto) yLyv€(r6ai tt/jo? dvhpiav,
aireipo^: 8e Bt^ttou Kal djvp,vacrTo<; wv roiv roiovroiv
dycovwv oaTiaovp ov8^ dv ij/xicrv^ eavTOU yevotTc
7rp6<; dper^v, crax^pfov he dpa TeXeco^ earai /xtj
TToXXat? r)8ovai<i Kal eiridufiiai^; 7rpoTpe7Tovaai<;

dvaLa')(yvTeZv Kal dBcKeiv 8ta/Ae/ia^7//i.eVo9 Kal
veviKi)K(6<; fxerd Xoyov Kal epyov Kal Te-)(yri<; ev
re 7rat8iat? Kal ev airovhal^, dXhS diradrj^ cov
TrdvTcov rb)v roiovTOiv

KA. OvKovv Tov 7' eiKOTa \6yov dv eôi.
E A0. Tt ovv ; (f)6ôv (f>dpfiaKov ecrO' 0? ri<; deo<;
ehcuKev ware OTToao) irXeov dv eOeX-rj

dvdp(t)Troi<;,
Tt? TTLveiv avTOv, rouovTW fidXXov avTOV vo/jLiêtv

648 KaO^ eKucTTt^v TToaiv Svarvx^Pj yiyveadai, Kal
rd Trapovra Kal rd fieXXovra avrw
(f)oêicrdat
nrdvTa, Kal TcXevTcovra elq irdv 8eo9 Uvai tov
dvhpeioTarov dvOpoiiTwv, eKKoifirjOevTa 8e Kal
TOV TT(i)pxtro<i d-naXXayevra ttuXiv eKaaTore tov
avTov ylyvecrdaL ;
KA. Kat Tt ToiovTov (f)al/j-€v dv, ft) êve, ev
dv6pct)Troi<; yeyovevac 7rco/xa ;
A0. OuBev el 5' ovv iyevero irodev, eaO 6 ti
7r/309 dvhplav rjvdv vop-oOeTT) '^prjaifiov ; olov to
TOiovhe TTepl avTov Kal fxdXa eixofiev dv avTw
SiaXeyeadai (Pipe, S) vop,odeTa, ehe Kprjalv, eW
78
LAWS, BOOK I
attempt with the aid of justice to make a man fear-

ful ? Is it not by pitting him against shamelessness
and exercising him against it that we must make
him victorious in the fight against his own pleasures ?
Or shall we say that, whereas in the case of courage
it is only by fighting and conquering his innate
cowardice that a man can become perfect, and no

one unversed and unpractised in contests of this sort
can attain even half the excellence of which he is
capable,— in the case of temperance, on the other
hand, a man may attain perfection without a stub-
born fight against hordes of pleasures and lusts which
entice towards shamelessness and wrong-doing, and
without conquering them by the aid of speech and
act and skill, alike in play and at work, — and, in
fact, without undergoing any of these experiences ?
cuN. It would not be reasonable to suppose so.
ATM. Well then in the case of fear does there
:
exist any specific, given by God to men, such that,

the more a man likes to drink of it, the more, at every
draught, he fancies himself plunged in misfortune and
dreads alike things present and things to come, till
finally, though he be the bravest of men, he arrives
at a state of abject terror; whereas, when he has
once got relieved of the potion and slept it off, he
always becomes his normal self again ?
CLIN. What potion of the kind can we mention.
Stranger, as existing anywhere ?
ATH. There is none. Supposing, however, that
there had been one, would it have been of any
service to the lawgiver for promoting courage For
.''
instance, we might quite well have addressed him

concerning it in this wise " Come now, O lawgiver,
:
— whether it be Cretans you are legislating for or
79
PLATO
B fjuev twv irokLTwv
olariaLvovv vofioderei^, irpwTov
ap av Seâio ^daavov hwaro^ eluai Xafi^dvew
avhpva<; re irept kuI SeiXta? ;
KA. <PatJ; TTOv Tra? av SfjXov on.

A9. Tt oe ; fier d(T(f)a\€La<; xal avev kcvSvvcou
êydXwv r) fierd tmv evavriwv ;
KA. Kat rovTo <t(» ^ fxerd Tr}<i d<T(f)a\€ia<;
^vvofxoXojTjaei Tra?.
A0. X/DoSo S' av 6i<? TOv<i (f)6ôu<; tovtov<; aywv
Ka\ iXejx^^ ^^ '''O^'? TTadrjp,aa-iv, ware dvajKdêiv
a(f)0ôv yiyveadai, TrapaKeXev6fievo<; xal vovOercov
G Kal rifjicov, rov 8e drifidôyv, o(Tri M-V^^^ dXXo iyKaXwv to)
TTOofiari
KA. Kat TTco? OVK dv xPV'ô, ft) êve ;
A0.Vvfivaaia yovv, co (f>iXe, rrapd rd vvv

0avp,aarTj paarcovij^ dv eirj Kud' eva Kal Kar
D 6Xlyov<; Kal Kad^ oiroaovi ra del ôvXotro' Kal
et re Tf? dpa fMovoî ev ipTjfiia, rb T779 ala^vvr]^
eTTLirpoaOev 7roiovfMevo<i, rrplv ev a^^tv rjyovfxevo<;
opdadai p.T] Selv, ovrw tt/jo? rov<; <f)6ôv added by England.
80
LAWS, BOOK I
anyone else, —
would not your first desire be to have
a test ofcourage and of cowardice which you might
"
apply to your citizens ?
CLIN. Obviously everyone of them would say
" Yes."
ATH. " And would you desire a test that was
"
safe and free from serious risks, or the reverse ?
GUN. All will agree, also, that the test must be
safe.
ATH. "And would you utilise the test by bringing
men into these fears and proving them while thus
affected, so as to compel them to become fearless
employing exhortations, admonitions and rewards,
but degradation for all those that refused to conform
wholly to the character you prescribed .''
And would
you acquit without penalty everyone who had trained
himself manfully and well, but impose a penalty on
everyone who had done so badly ? Or would you
totally refuse to employ the potion as a test, although
"
you have no objection to it on other grounds ?
cuN. Of course he would employ it. Stranger.
ATH. At any rate, my friend, the training involved
would be wonderfully simple, as compared with our
present methods, whether it were applied to indi-
viduals singly, or to small groups, or to groups ever
so large. Suppose, then, that a man, actuated by a
feeling of shame and loth to show himself in public
before he was in the best of condition, should remain
alone by himself while undergoing this training
against fears and relying on the potion alone for his
solitary equipment, instead of endless exercises, — he
would be acting quite rightly so too would he who,
:
trusting in himself that by nature and practice he is

already well equipped, should have no hesitation in
8i
PLATO
irapea Kcvdadat okvoI fiera ^VfxiroTOiv
fj.r]B€i>
irXeLovoiv eTnheiKvvadai ttjv iv ry

fyv/jivaô/xevofi
rov TT(i}fj,aTOdX\ea0ai fieya ixrjK dWoioiiadai hi dpeTrjV,
•npo<i Be TTjv ea')(^dTr}v iroaiv dirdWdTTono irpXv
d(^LKvelcrdai.y rrjv ttuvtcov rj'rjav (f)oôvfj,€vo<;
dvOpcoTraiv tov Trdop.aTO^.
KA. Nat" GQ)(f)povoL)] 7 ap,^ c5 êve, kuX 6
roiovTO6ôv
aêBov ovie deo<i eBwKev dv0p(vTrot,<; toiovtov
(f)dpp.aKov ovT€ avrol p,ep,r}-)âvi'jp,e6a' Tov<i yap
y6r)Ta<i ovk ev doLvrj Xiyco' tj}? Be dôîa^ Kal
TOV Xiav Oappelv Kal aKaipw^ [a p.r) %/3v],^ -noTepov
ean Troyp-a, rj 7r(o<; Xeyop,ev ;
KA. "Kan, tp'qaet ttov, tov olvov (fypd^cov.

A&. 'H Kal TOvvavTiov eêf tovto Tq> vvv Br)
Xeyo p,ev(p ; iriovTa tov dvOpcoirov avTov avTOv

TTOiei TrpwTov 'iXea>v evdv^ p,dXXov rj vpoTepov,
Kal oTToaw dv trXeov auTov yevrjTai, ToaovTcp
B TrXeLovwv dyadwv
TrXrjpouaOai ^ Kal
eXTTiBcov
Bvvdpeo}<i et? Boâv Kal TeA-euTwi' Brj Trdarj'i a
;
ToiovToPol'
KA. Tt pLrjv ;
1
y &V conj. England : yip MSS. (70^ iv Stallb.)
* [&. /x^ xpv] I bracket.
82
LAWS, BOOK I
training in company with a number of drinking com-

panions and showing off how for speed and strength
he is superior to the potency of the draughts he is
obliged to drink, with the result that because of his
excellence he neither commits any grave impropriety
nor loses his head, and who, before they came to the
last round, should quit the company, through fear of
the defeat inflicted on all men by the wine-cup.
CLIN. Yes, Stranger, this man too would be acting
temperately.
ATM. Once more let us address the lawgiver and
say " Be it so, O lawgiver, that for producing fear
:
no such drug apparently has been given to men by

God, nor have we devised such ourselves (for quacks
I count not of our company) but does there exist a
;
potion for inducing fearlessness and excessive and

—
untimely confidence, or what shall we say about
this?"
CLIN. Presumably, he will assert that there is one,
— naming wine.
ATH. And is not this exactly the opposite of the
potion described just now? For, first, it makes
the person who drinks it more jovial than he was
before, and the more he imbibes it, the more he
becomes filled with high hopes and a sense of power,
till finally, puffed up with conceit, he abounds in
every kind of licence of speech and action and every

kind of audacity, without a scruple as to what he says
or what he does. Everyone, 1 imagine, would agree
that this is so.
CLIN. Undoubtedly.
' w\Tipova6ai MSS -rAjjpoCrai Zur.

:
• Zur. gives -ras . auyxwitot to Clin., and rl

. . ix-fiv ; to
ileg. I:follow Cornarius, Ast, al.
83
PLATO
Ae. Ava/j,vy}a6u)/jL€P Brj ToSe, on 5u' ecpa/xcp
rjfiayv ev rai<; -x/ri/ât? 8iii> OepaTreveaOai, to /xev
^ OTTft)?o 71 ndXiara Bapprjao/M-v, ro 8e rovvavriov
6 71 fidXiara ô^rjaofieOa.
KA. ''A T?}"? alhov<i eXeye'i, ax? olo/ueda.
Ae. KaXco? iu,v7]/j.ov€V€T€. €7r€i8r] Be Tqv re
dvhpiav Koi TTjv dcfjo^lav ev toI<; <p6ôi,<i Set Kara-
fieXerdaOai, oKeirreov apa to evavriov ev roi<i
evavrioi^; OepaireveaOai Beov dv eXrj.
KA. To 7' ovv eiKo^;.
Ae. 'Â TTad6vT€<; dpa Tre^vKafxev SiacfiepovTcos
OappaXeoi r elvai koX dpaael^, ev Tovrot<; heov dv,
0)9 e'lT] TO fieXeTav &)<? rjKLCTTa elvac dvat,a')(yv-
eoLK ,
D Tou? re Kol Opaavnjro^ <yep-ovTa<{, (f>o0epov'i 8e et?

TO Ti ToXfiav eKdaTOTe Xeyetv rj Trdaxîv r) koX
Spdv ala')(^p6v otiovv.
KA. "Koixev.
A0. OvKovv ravrd eari rrdvra ev ol<i ea/xev
TOiouTOi, du/jio^, ep(o<i, v^pa, dfxadia, (f)iXoKepBeia,
dipeihta,^ kuX en TOidBe, ttX-oOto?, /cdXXo^, tV^y?,
Koi irdvd^ oaa hi ijBovrj'; av fxeduaKOvra irapd^po-
va<; TToiel' tovt(ov S' evTeXrj re Kal datvearepav
TrpcoTov fiev 7rp6<; to Xafi^dvetv Trelpav, elra etf to
fieXerdv, ttXtjv t% ev olvtp âadvov xal 7rai8ta,<:
E TLva €-)(opi€V iJir)Xo.vrjV ^ €L7T€lv efjifji€Tpov fJidXXov, dv
Kai oTTOianovv pier euAaêta? yiyvqrai. ; aKOTToJ-
fiev yap Bij' BvaKoXov yfrv^Pjii xal dypia<i, e^ 179
dSiKtai /jLVpiai yiyvovTai, iroTepov iovra elti8la: SetAt'a MSS. (bracketed by Ast).
* fj.r]xavriv G. G. Miiller : rjSovrjv MSS., add.

34 ^ avTO) Bekker, Schanz : avriuv MSS.
LAWS, BOOK I
ATH. Let us our previous statement th»t

recall
we must cultivate in our soulstwo things namely, —
the greatest possible confidence, and its opposite, the
greatest possible fear.
CLIN. Which you called, I think, the marks of
modesty.
ATH. Your memory serves you well. Since cour-
age and fearlessness ought to be practised amidst
fears, we have to consider whether the opposite
quality ought to be cultivated amidst conditions of
the opposite kind.
CLIN. It certainly seems probable.
ATH. It appears then that we ought to be placed
amongst those conditions which naturally tend to
make us exceptionally confident and audacious when
we are practising how to be as free as |)ossible from
shamelessness and excessive audacity, and fearful of
ever daring to say or suffer or do anything shameful.
CLIN. So it appears.
ATH. And are not these the conditions in which
we are of the character described,— anger, lust, inso-
lence, ignorance, covetousness, and extravagance and ;
these also,— wealth, beauty, strength, and everything

which intoxicates a man with pleasure and turns his
head ? And for the purpose, first, of providing a cheap
and comparatively harmless test of these conditions,
and, secondly, of affording practice in them, what
more suitable device can we mention than wine,
—
with its playful testing provided that it is employed
at all carefully ? For consider in the case of a man
:
whose disposition is morose and savage (whence spring

numberless iniquities), is it not more dangerous to
test him by entering into money transactions with
him, at one's own personal risk, than by associating
8S
PLATO
650 Tov Aiovvaov dticopia^ ; 7) tt/jo? Td(f)po8i(ria -qTrrj-
fiivrjf; Tiv6<; yfru^r]<i ^daavov Xafj-^dveiv, eirirpe-
TTOvra avTov 6vyaT€pa<; re Kal vl€i<i koL 'yvvaiKa}
oinci)<; ev rol'i (îXTaroi,^ Kivhvvevaravra, ^0o^
"^^XV^ 0ô,or('-o'0ai ; koX fivpia 8t} Xeycov ovk av
Ti<i TTore dvixreiev, oao) hia<êpei ro pLerd 7raiBid<;
TTjv aX\ft)9 dvev puiaOov ^rjpii(o8ov<; dewpelv Kal

St) Kal TOVTO fiev avro rrepl ye tovtcov ovt av
B Kp?7Ta9 OVT dWov€peiv tt/jo? ra? dWa<i âadvov^.
KA. ^ KXrjdh'i rovro ye.
A0. Tovro p,ev dp^ dv rStv 'Xprjcrip.oyrdrMv ev
eir), ro yvSyvai re Kal eêt? twi' \}rv)(^cii)v,
rd<; (f)vaei^
ri] re^vj) eKeivrj ^<i earl ravra deparreveiv €(Tti
5e TTOV, (fiafiev, ct)9 olpai, rroXtriKr]';. 77 yap ;
KA. Hdvu pev ovv.
^ 'fwaiKa Ast, Schanz : yuvaiKas MSS.
86
LAWS, BOOK I
with him with the help of Dionysus and his festive

insight ? And when a man is a slave to the pleasures
of sex, is it not a more dangerous test to entrust to
him one's own daughters and sons and wife, and thus
imperil one's own nearest and dearest, in order to
discover the disposition of his soul ? In fact, one
might quote innumerable instances in a vain en-
deavour to show the full superiority of this playful
method of inspection which is without either serious
consequence or costly damage. Indeed, so far as
that is concerned, neither the Cretans, I imagine,
nor any other people would dispute the fact that
herein we have a fair test of man by man, and that
for cheapness, security and speed it is superior to all
other tests.
CLIN. That certainly is true.
ATH. —
This then the discovery of the natures
—
and conditions of men's souls will prove one of the
things most useful to that art whose task it is to treat
them ; and that art is (as 1 presume we say) the
art of politics is it not so
: i*
CLIN. Undoubtedly.
»7
B
652 A0. To St) fieTO, tovto, a)? eoiKe, (TKeiTTeov

iKeZvo Trepl avrwv, TTOTepa tovto fiovov aya66i>
eêt, TO KUTiSeiv exofJêv Ta<i (f)va€i<i, rj Kai ti
7r<u<?
fieyedo<i a)(f)€X€iaâ^cov ttoWt}? ctttouS^? eveaT iv

TTj KUT 6p6ov %/3eta Tri<; iv oivw avuovaia^. ri
ovv St] Xeyofxev ; evead\ 6ii<i 6 Xoyo^; eoiKe ôvXe-
aduL at)fj.alveiv' ottt) Be kuI ottw^, uKovwpev irpoa-
exovTd TOP vovv, fii'j TTTj TTapaTToSiaOoj/jiev inr'
avTov.
KA. A67' OVV.
A0. * Ava/j.vr)a6t]vai tolvvv eycoye ttuXiv itn-
653 OvpLOi TV ttot iXeyofiev ^ jj/jilv elvai T-qv opdrjv
Traiheiav. tovtov yap, w? 7' iyoD TOTrdô) to, vvv,
eoTcv iv Tw €TriTr}Bev/j.aTi tovtw koXw KaTopOov-
fieuo) atoTTjpla.
KA. Meya \ey€i<{.
A0. Aiyci) Toivvv Twv TraiBoiv vaiSi/CTjv elvai
irpfjyTrjv alaOiiaiv rjhovrjv Koi Xvirrjv, koi iv ol^
ap€T7j "^v^jl KôX KaKia irapayiyveTai irpoiTov,
Tavr' elvai' (^povrjcnv Be Kal aXrÔel^ B6â<i /9e-
âiov<i, evTv^V^ ^ OTto kol tt/jo? to yrjpaf nap-
eyeveTO' TeXea B ovv ecrT* dvOpcoirof tuvtu koI to,
B iv TovTOi'i TTcivTa K€KTri/u.evo<; dyadd. TraiBeiav Brf
Xeyco TT]v TrapayiyvofjLevrjv irpoiTov iratcrXv dpcT^v,
rjBovi] Be Kal (piXla /cal Xvttt} Kal p,l(To^ av 6pda)<{
iv "vlryât? iyylyvcovTai fiTjiro) Bvva/xevwv Xoyov ^
^ wot' ikf-yo/uLfi' Madvig, Schanz : tot* \4yofj,ev MSS.
• ti/rux^t Ast: fi/ruxfi MSS.
88
BOOK II
ATH. In the next place, we probably ought to

enquire, regarding this subject, whether the dis-
cerning of men's natural dispositions is the only
gain to be derived from the right use of wine-
parties, or whether it entails benefits so great as
to be worthy of serious consideration. What do we
say about this ? Our argument evidently tends to
indicate that it does entail such benefits so how ;
and wherein it does so let us now hear, and that

with minds attentive, lest haply we be led astray
by it.
CLIN. Say on.

ATH. I want us to call to mind again our definition
of right education. For the safe-keeping of this

depends, as 1 now conjecture, upon the correct
establishment of the institution mentioned.
GUN. That is a strong statement!
ATH. —
What I state is this, that in children the
first childish sensations are pleasure and pain, and
that it is in these first that goodness and badness come
to the soul ; but as to wisdom and settled true
opinions, a man is lucky if they come to him even
in old age ; and he that is possessed of these bless-
ings, and all that they comprise, is indeed a perfect
man. I term, then, the goodness that first comes
to children "education." When pleasure and love,
and pain and hatred, spring up rightly in tiie souls
of those who are unable as yet to grasp a rational
* Kiyov Euseb., Schanz : K6f<f M^S.

89
PLATO
Xa^^dveiv, Xaôvrwv 8e rov \6yov avix(j>covrjao>ai rat
Xoyo), (^Tco) ^ opdcos eldiadai. vtto rcov TTpoarjKovrojv
iOaJv avrrj ead^ ^ r) ^VLL<îx)via ^vyiTraaa fjL€v aperq,
TO he irepl ra<; r)oova<; xal \vTra<; redpafjufievov
ainrj<i 6p6co<;, ware fiicreiv fiev a -x^prj jxiaelv evdv<i
C e^ ap')(ri'; fii'y^pt. TeXov<i, aTepyeiv Se a XPV orTcpyeiu,
TovT avTo aTTorefxcbv tm Xoyo) koi Traihelav irpoa-
ayopevcov,Kara ye rrjv e/jLT)u 6p6co<; av irpoa-
ayopevoi^.
KA. Kai. yap, co êve, rjfjLLu Kal ra irporepov
opdoi'i aot 7rai8ela /3tft), deol he olKreipaure<i ro ratv
av6p(i)iT(i}v eirirrovov Trec^f/co? yevo^ avaTrav\a<i re
avroh roiv irovcou erdâvro rd^ rcov eoproiv
dp,oi^d<; [roi<; O€oi<i],^ Kal Moucrai? 'ATroWcoud re
fxovariyerriv Kal Aiovvaov ^vi/eopracrrd<; ehocrav, tV
eiravopdodvrai, rd<; ye * rpo(f)d<; yevop-evoi ^ ev
ral<i eopral^ fxerd deoiv. opav ovv -y^prj irorepov
dXy]OT}<; rj/xiv Kara t^vaiv o Xoyo<; vjxvelrai ra vvv,
rj TTft)?. (prjal he ro veov d-nav a)<? eVo? elirelv roi<i
re adifxacTt Kal rat? (f)Q)vai<i qav)(^Lav dyeiv ov
E hvvaadai, KivelaOai he del i^rjrelv Kal (f)Oeyyecr0ai,
ra fiev dXX6p,eva Kal aKtprwvra, olov opyovpieva
fieO^ r)hovr) Stallbaum.
^ avn; ead' Euseb. : ain-âd' MSS. : avrfjs 6' Zur.
' omitted by Schanz, after Clem. Alex.
[rot? Oeois]
* ye Hermann re MSS.
: omitted by Zur, :
90
LAWS, BOOK II
account ; and when, after grasping the rational ac-

count, they consent thereunto through having been
rightly trained in fitting practices this consent,
:
—
viewed as a whole, is goodness, while the part o(. it
that is rightly trained in respect of pleasures and
pains, so as to hate what ought to be hated, right
from the beginning up to the very end, and to love
—
what ought to be loved, if you were to mark this
part off in your definition and call it " education,"
you would be giving it, in my opinion, its right name.
CLIN. You are quite right. Stranger, as it seems
to us, both in what you said before and in what you
say now about education.
ATH. Very good. Now these forms of child-
training, which consist in right discipline in pleasures
and pains, grow slack and weakened to a great
extent in the course of men's lives ; so the gods, in
pity for the human race thus born to misery, have
ordained the feasts of thanksgiving as periods of
respite from their troubles and they have granted
;
them as companions in their feasts the Muses and

Apollo the master of music, and Dionysus, that they
may at least set right again their modes of discipline
by associating in their feasts with gods. must We
consider, then, whether the account that is harped on
nowadays is true to nature ? What it says is that,
almost without exception, every young creature is
incapable of keeping either its body or its tongue
quiet, and is always striving to move and to cry,
leaping and skipping and delighting in dances and
games, and uttering, also, noises of every description.
Now, whereas all other creatures are devoid of any
* -fffSfifyot Wagner, Schanz : ytvofifvas MSS.

91
PLATO
alaOtjaiv Ttov iv Tat<; Kivrjaeai rdêcov ovhe
araîcov, ol? Btj f)v6/bL6<; ovofia Koi dpfiovla' r)fuv
he ou? elTrofxev tou? deov^ (TvyxopevTa<; SeBoaOai,
TOVTOV^ elvai koX tov<: SeSoyKora^ ttjp evpvOfiov re
Kal ivapfioviov aiadrjaiv fieO rjSovrj^, fj
Brj Kivelv
654 re 77/409 Kal j(opri'yetv r]fx(ov tovtov<;, toSat? re /cat
6p-)(r)(reaiv aXkrj\oL<i ^vveipovra<;, 'xppov'^ re oovo-

fiUKCvac irapa Trjf; )(âpd^ ep,(j)i jv ovofia. irpwrov
St} touto uTToBe^co/jieda ; doifieu iraiheiav elvai
TrpcoTTfjv 8ia M.ov(To}u re xal AiroXXoyvo'; ; rj ttw? ;
KA. OuTft)?.
Ae. OvKOvv 6 fiev aTrai'SefTO? d')^6pev70<i rip.lv
B earai, rov he ireiraihevpevov iKavw<; KexopevKora

dereov ;
KA. Tt pi,rjv ;
A0. KopeCa ye p,rjv 6p-)(r}ai<i re Kal (phrj to

^vvokov e<TTlV.
KA. ÂvajKalov.
'O /ca\<w9 dpa
Ae. 7T€7raiheup,evo<; aheiv re Kal
opx^laOai hvvaro^ dv ecrj KaXoi)'?.
KA. ÊoiKev.
Ae. "Ihoopêv hrj rt ttot' earl to vvv av Xeyo-
pevov.
KA. To TTolov hrj ;
A0. KaXo)? ahei, âpev, Kal Ka\(o<; op'^êiraf

C TTOTepov el Kal KaXd ahei Kal KaXd 6p-)(elrai
irpoaOwpev r) pr] ;
KA. Tlpoadcopev.
A0. Tt h\ dp Ttt Ka\d re ^yovp^vo<i elvai KaXd
92
LAWS, BOOK II
perception of the various kinds of order and disorder

in movement (which we term rhvtlim and harmonv),
to us men the very gods, who were given, as we
said, to be our fellows in the dance, have granted
the pleasurable perception of rhythm and harmony,
whereby they cause us to move and lead our choirs,
linking us one with another by means of songs and
dances and to the choir they have given its name
;
from the "cheer" implanted therein. ^ Shall we

accept this account to begin with, and postulate
that education owes its origin to Apollo and the
Muses?
CLIN. Yes.
ATH. we assume that the uneducated man
Shall
is without choir-training, and the educated man fully
choir-trained ?
CLIN. Certainly.
ATH. Choir-training, as a whole, embraces of courst
both dancing and song.
CLIN. Undoubtedly.
ATH. So the well-educated man will be able both
to sing and dance well.
ci.iN. Evidently.
ATH. Let us now consider what this last statement
of ours implies.
CLIN. Which statement ?
ATH. Our words are, — " he sings well and dances
well " : ought we, or ought we not, to add, " pro- —
vided that he sings good songs and dances good
dances " .''
CLIN. We ought to add this.

ATH. How then, if a man takes the good for
' Here fancifully derived from X'>P<'> "joy."

x'*P^^ is For
similar etymologies, see the Cratylut, passim,
93
PLATO
/rat ra alay^pa alcrxpa ovt(o<; avrol<; -x^prjTai ;
êXrtov o toiovto^ TreTraihevfievo'i r)fuv earai rrjv
)(op6tav re koI fiovaiKrjv 09 av tw fiev a-cofxari Kai
rfj (f}(ovp TO hiavorjdev elvai KaXov iKav(0'i vTnjperelv
hvvrjOfj CKciaTOTe, X^^PV ^^ f^V "''Oi"? fcaXol'; firjBe
ixiafi ra firj xaXd,
\elvo^ 09 av t^ fxev (pfovfj
rj
Kai TU) cTco/jLaTi fir) irdw 8vvaT6<; tj KaropOovv rj

D SiavoeiTat,^ tj] Bk rjSovjj kuI Xvirr) KUTopOoi, ra
fiev daTraô/jLevo^, oaa KoXd, rd hk Bua)(€paLvcov,
oTToaa fiTj KaXd ;
KA. rioXu TO Siacpepov, o) êv€, \€y€i<; Ti]<i
TTaiheia^.
A0. OvKOVV el fikv TO KOXOV (phr}<i T€ Kol
op-)(_^'](je(ii^ Trepi •yiyvuxTKOp.ev rpei^ 6vre<i, lafiep
Kul TOP TreiraiSevfxevnv re Kai drcaihevTOv 6pdai<i'
el he dyvoovfiev 'ye tovto, ov8' ei Tt? iraihela's ecrrX
E (f)uXaKr} Kai ottov SiayiyvwcrKeiv dv irore hvvai-
fieSa- dp" ovx ovtq)^ ;
KA. OvTCO /Jiev OVV'

A0. TauT* dpa fieTa rovd^ tj/jlIv av, Kaddirep
Kvcrlv Ixyevovaai'i, SiepeuvrjTeov, a^V/^^ "^^ KaXov
KaX fieXo8r]v Kai op^va-Lv. el 8e ravO^
r)/j,ddvai ayrjl^^
rj /ie'Xo? elvat Trore ; êpe, dv8piKr]<; yjrvxv'i ^^
655 TTOvoa exofJ.ev7)(; ^ Kai ev Tol<i avrol<i re Kai
8eiXi]<;
XaoL<; dp dfjboia rd t€ (j;^/;yu,aTa Kai rd (pdeyfjuara
^v/xâiveL yijvecrOai ;
'
j;
Siavoe'nai Badhani, Sohanz : fj Siauoelvâ^ MSS.
94
LAWS, BOOK II
good and the bad for bad and treats them accord-
ingly ? Shall we regard such a man as better trained
in choristry and music when he is always able both
with gesture and voice to represent adequately that
which he conceives to be good, though he feels
neither delight in the good nor hatred of the bad,
or when, though not wholly able to represent his
conception rightly by voice and gesture, he yet keeps
right in his feelings of pain and pleasure, welcoming
everything good and abhorring everything not good ?
CLIN. There is a vast difference between the two
cases. Stranger, in point of education.
ATM. If, then, we three understand what con-
stitutes goodness in respect of dance and song, we

also know who is and who is not rightly educated ;
but without this knowledge we shall never be able

to discern whether there exists any safeguard for
education or where it is to be found. Is not
that so?
CLIN. It is.
ATM. What we have next to track down, like

hounds on the goodness of posture and tunes
trail, is
in relation to song and dance; if this eludes our
pursuit, it will be in vain for us to discourse further
concerning right education, whether of Greeks or
of barbarians.
CLIN. Yes.
ATH. Well then, however shall we define goodness
of posture or of tune? Come, consider: when a
manly soul is beset by troubles, and a cowardly
soul by troubles identical and equal, are the postures
and utterances that result in the two cases similar ?
* Kar' Ritter, England : xal MSS.

• ^xoMC"^* Stephens, Ast : 4pxoft.iyris MSS.
95
PLATO
KA. Kai TTfo)"?, ore ye firjSe ra )^pd)ixara ;
A©. KaXw? 76, 0) eralpe' aXX' ev yap /lovaiKrj
Kai axvP'O-ra fiev Ka\ fieXr] evecrri, irepl pvdfxor
Kal apfjLoviav ovarj<i t^? fxovaiKrj'^, coare eupvd/u.ov
fxev Kal cvdp/jLO<TTOv, ev'xpwv 8e fii\o<i rj ayrjixa
ouK eariv arretKacravTa Mairep oi ôpoSiSdaKoXoi
direiKCLôvaiv opdw^ (ÔeyyecrOai' to he tov BeiXov
T€ Kal dvhpeiov a'^rjp.a rj /j,eXo<; eari re Kal 6p66!)<;
B rrpoaayopeveiv e^^f ra fxev rSyv dvhpeloiv xaXd,
TO. rwv BeiXcov 8e aicrxpd. Kal iva Srj ^/; fxaKpo-
Xoyla TToXX-q Tt? yiyv-qrai Trepl ravd^ r]/xlv uTravTa,
aTrXeo? eario ra fxev dpeTrj<{ eô/ieiâ "v/^t/^^? 77
(Toifxaro^, eiT€ avrrj^ elre rivb^ cIkouo^;, ^vp^travra

(T'^rjfxarare /cat fxeXr) KaXd, to. 8e Aca/cia? av
Toviai'TLov airav.
KA. 'Op66t)<; re irpoKoXel Kal ravd' tj/mv ovrwi
exîv diTOKeKpicjOw ra vvv.

A0. Ext hr) roSe' irorepuv drravre'i irdffai'i
C xopeiai^ 6/xoiox; x^^P^f^^^' V ttoXXov Set ;
KA. Tov TTavrb'i fiev ovv.

Ae. Tt rror av ovv Xiyco/xev ro ireTrXavrjKoi;
^fids elvai ; irorepov ov ravra iari KaXd rjfj,iv
rrdaiv, rj rd /jlcv avrd, dXX' ov hoKelravrd eh'ai ;
oil yap ri<; co? wore rd
TTov epel ye rrj<{ KaKi'a<; rj
dperr}<i KaXXiova X^P^^l^^"^^' <"^^' '^^ avr6<; fxev

Xaipei Tot9 T^<f fioxOrjpia^; (TX'lH'O-fî'V, 01 8' dXXoi
evavria ravrr/f; ^lovar) rivi. Kai roi Xeyovai ye
01 irXetarot povcrLKr}^ opdorrjra ecvai rrjv rj8ovt]V
* "Music" comprises both dance and song (including

instrumental accompaniment), whether executed by single
96
LAWS, BOOK II
CLIN. How could they be, when even their

complexions differ in colour?
ATM. Well said, my friend. But in fact, while
postures and tunes do exist in music,^ which deals
with rhythm and harmony, so that one can rightly
speak of a tune or posture being "rhythmical" or
"harmonious," one cannot rightly apply the choir-
masters' metaphor "well-coloured" to tune and
posture but one can use this language about the
;
posture and tune of the brave man and the coward,

and one is right in calling those of the brave man
good, and those of the coward bad. To avoid a
tediously long disquisition, let us sum up the whole
matter by saying that the postures and tunes which
attach to goodness of soul or body, or to some image
thereof, are universally good, while those which
attach to badness are exactly the reverse.
CLIN. Your pronouncement is correct, and we
now formally endorse it.
ATH. Another point :

—
do we all delight equally
in choral dancing, or far from equally .''
CLIN. Very far indeed.

ATH. Then what are we to suppose it is tiiat mis-
leads us? Is it the fact that we do not all regard
as good the same things, or is it that, although they
are the same, they are thought not to be the same?
For surely no one will maintain that the choric per-
formances of vice are better than those of virtue, or
that he himself enjoys the postures of turpitude,
while all others delight in music of the opposite
kind. Most people, however, assert that the value
of music consists in its power of affording pleasure
performers or by groups (xoptla). The " postures" are those

of the dancer, the " tunes" those of the singer.
97
PLATO
D rat? ^vâl'i Troplôvaav Svvafxiv dXXa tovto
fievovr€ uveKTov ovre oaiov to Trapdnrav cpdeyj-
eaOat. rohe he fidWov et«09 irXavav rjij,d<i.
KA. To TTOtOV ;
A0. 'EvreiS^ iJ.ifii]fiara Tpoircov ecnl to, irepl

Ta? ;)(;opeta9, iv irpdêai re rravTohaTrai^ '^t,<yv6-
fieva Koi TV)(ât^, /cat rÔeai Kal pLiixxjaecn ^ hi-

e^Lovrwv eKaarwv, ol<; fj,ev dv Trpof Tpoirov rd
prjdivTa rj fieXaiSrjdivTa rj Kal ottuxtovv 'xôpev-
Oevra y Kara <^vaiv rj Kara edo<i rj KaT d/xcfôrepa,
E T0UT0U9 fiev Kal rovroi<; ')(âipeiv re Kal eiraivelv
avrd Kal irpocra'yopeveLv KaXd dvajKaiov, ol? B'
dp irapd ^vaiv rj rpoirov i] riva ^vvrjOeiav, ovre
yaipeiv huvarov ovre eiraLvelv ala^pd re rrpocr-
ayopeueiv. 0I9 S" dv rd fiev t% (fivaeca opdd
^vp,/3aivr}, rd 8e t% avvr]d€ia<i ivavria, rj rd fiev
rrjf; avvr)6eia<; opdd, rd 8e t^9 cf)vaeQ)<i ivavria,
ovroi Br) Tat9 TjBovac<i roix; iirac'vovi evavriovi

656 Trpocrajopevovaiv rjBea yap rovrcov cKaara elvai
(f)aai, TTOvrjpd Be, Kal ivavrlov dWcov ov<; ol'ovrat,
(f)pove2v al<T-)^vvovrai p,ev KLveladai rw aco/xarc rd
roiavra, ala')(yvovrai Be aBeiv &)9 drro(âiv6p,evoi
Ka\d perd aTrovBrjf, )(aLpovcn Be Trap avrols-
KA. OpOorara Xeyei';.
A&. Moil' ovv ri ^Xd^rjv ead^ i]vrLva (f)epet rw
"Xaipovri rrovrjpia'i rj aî^pâcnv rj p,eXecrcv, rj riv
* Ht/x-nffefft some MSS. : fxifiii/xaat other MSS., Zur.
^ i.e. music is commonly judged

solely by the amount of
pleasure without any regard to the quality of the
it affords,
pleasure. The Athenian proceeds to show how dangerous a
98
LAWS, BOOK II
to the soul.^ But such an assertion is quite intoler-

able, and blasphemy even to utter it. The fact
it is
which misleads us is more probably the following

CUN. What ?
ATH. Inasmuch as choric performances are repre-

sentations of character, exhibited in actions and
circumstances of every kind, in which the several
performers enact their parts by habit and imitative
art, whenever the choric performances are congenial
to them in point of diction, tune or other features
(whether from natural bent or from habit, or from
both these causes combined), then these performers
invariably delight in such performances and extol
them as excellent ; whereas those who find them
repugnant to their nature, disposition or habits
cannot possibh' delight in them or praise them, but
call them bad. And when men are right in their
natural tastes but wrong in those acquired by
habituation, or right in the latter but wrong in the
former, then by their expressions of praise they
convey the opposite of their real sentiments ; for
whereas they say of a performance that it is pleasant
but bad, and feel ashamed to indulge in such bodily
motions before men whose wisdom they respect, or
to sing such songs (as though they seriously
approved of them), they really take a delight in
them in private.
CLIN. Very true.
ATH. Does the man who delights in bad postures
and tunes suffer any damage thereby, or do those
doctrine this is music, he maintains, should not be used

:
merely to pander to the low tastes of the populace, but

rather treaieil as an educational instrument for the
elevation of public morals.
99
PLATO
(i)(f)e\eiav av rol^ TTpo<i Tavavria ja^ rjhova^
diToSexofxevoif; ;
KA. El/C09 76.

B A0. YioTepov eiKO^ rj koI avayKotov Tavrov
eivai birep orav rt? 7rov7}pot<; rjOecrL ^vvoiv kukwv
dvd pcoircov fiT) /jicafj,
X^^PV ^^ diroSexofievo^, \}ri<yTj
8e &)<? eV TraiSid^ fioipa, oveipcoTrcov avTov ttjv

fJLO'xP'qpLav Tore Ofioiovadat Si] ttov dvdyKr) tov
;
Xatpovra, OTTOTepoi^ dv -xâipr], idv dpa Koi iirai-

velv ai(TXvpr}Tai. Kal rot tov toiovtov ti fxeliôv
dyaOov rj kukov (f>alfxep dv i)p,lv eic 7rdar} ^ rrjv irepi
rd<i Moucra? iraiheiav re koX iraiScdv, oloi-Leda
iîaecrdac T049 noirjTiKol^, 6 tl Trep dv avrov top
TToirjTrjV iv ttj TTOiijcrec repirr) pvOfiov 1) /xiXovî r^
prjp.aTO'i ixo/jievov, tovto BiBdaKovra Kal toi)?
Tcov avvo/jLwv 7raiSa9 Kal veov^<;
vevouodeTTjadai ;
Ae. %avfia Kal dKOvcrai. vdXai yap Bij TTore,
ft)9 tOiKsv, iyvcoaOt] Trap' avTol'i 0UT09 6 \0709 ov
id vvv Xeyopev riixel<i, oTt KaXd p.ev crxVP'aTa,

KaXd Be fieXrj Bel fieTaxîpi'^âOai Tat9 crvvT]6eiai<i
100
LAWS, BOOK II
who take pleasure in the opposite gain therefrom any

benefit?
CLIN. Probably.
ATH. not probable or ratherinevitable that the
Is it
result here will be exactly the same as what takes
place when a man who is living amongst the bad
habits of wicked men, though he does not really abhor
but rather accepts and delights in those habits, yet
censures them casually, as though dimly aware of
his own turpitude ? In such a case it is, to be sure,
inevitable that the man thus delighted becomes
assimilated to those habits, good or bad, in which he
delights,even though he is ashamed to praise them.
Yet what blessing could we name, or what curse,
greater than that of assimilation which befalls us so
inevitably ?
CLIN. There none, I believe.

is
ATH. Now where laws are, or will be in the
future, rightly laid down regarding musical education
and recreation, do we imagine that poets will be
granted such licence that they may teach whatever
form of rhythm or tune or words they best like them-
selves to the children of law-abiding citizens and the
young men in the choirs, no matter what the result
may be in the way of virtue or depravity ?
CLIN. That would be unreasonable, most certainly.
ATH. But at present this licence is allowed in
practically every State, with the exception of Egypt.
CLIN. How, then, does the law stand in Egypt?
ATH. It is marvellous, even in the telling. It
appears that long ago they determined on the rule
of which we are now speaking, that the youth of a
State should practise in their rehearsals postures and
• <nf pl> added by Schanz.

PLATO
Tov^ iv xat? TToXeai veovi. Ta^dfievoc Se raina
arra eVrt Koi ottoV arra, a7ri(f)T]i'av ev TOt<; i€poc<i,
E Kal TTupa TavT ovk i^rjv oure ^(oypdcpoi'i ovr
aWoL^ oaoi a^yjfxaTa kol ofxoV arra ^ aTrepyd-
ôvTui KaivoT()/j,€ip ovS' enivoelv dXX' arra rj ra
irdrpia, ov8e vvv eêanv, ovr iv rovroi^ ovt iv
fxovaiKfi ^vfiTrdat]. (TKOirSiv S' evp7]cr€i e7ro9 elrrelv p-vpioarbv dW^ oVto)?, roiv vvv
BeSrjpn.ovpyrjp.evcov ovre tc KaWiova out ala')(L(o,
Trjv avrr)v Be Te')(y7}v direipyaaixeva.
KA. %avp,aarov Xeyei^.
lôpodercKOv jxev ovv koI ttoXitikov vnep-
A@.
âW6vT(o<;. aX,X' erepa <pavX' av evpot<i avTodi'
rovTO S' ovv TO Trepl pôvaiKrjv dXr)di^ re Ka\
dîov ivvova^, on Bvvajov dp" r]v irepl tmv roiovrtov
vopioOereioOai êâto)^ 0' lepovv rd ^ fieXr] rd
TT)v opdorrjra (pvaec Trapexofievw tovto Be Oeov r)
Oeiov Ttfo? av etrj, KaOdrrep ixel âal rd rov
B iroXvv TovTOv aeaoycfxeva \p6vov p.eXt] t% "IcrtSo?
7roi7]fjLaTa yeyovevat. a}aO\ oirep eXeyov, el Bvvano
Ti? eXelv avTcov kuI oirwaovv ttjv opdoTrjra, dap-
povvra XPV ^^^ vopLOv dyeiv Kal rdîv avrd' &>? rj
T?}? Tj8oV7J<i Kal TOV KUIV^ ^rjTelv

XvTTTJ'i fj^TT/CTf?
del /j-ovaiKT) XPV^^^^^ crxeBov ov fieydXrjv riva
Bvvafiiv ex^t TTpb'i to Biacfydetpai ttjv KaOiepcodel-
crav ôpetai/ iTriKaXovaa dpxaiorrjTa. ttjv yovv
eVet ovBafxcb^ eoiKe Bwarr) yeyovevai Bia(f)deipai,
irdv Be Tovvavriov.
• li^jLoT &TTa : iiroV 6.rra MSS. bfiotdifxara Apelt.
:
* 6' iepovv ra : Bappovvra MSS. (/cal êffalas KaOttpovv rh

England).
LAWS, BOOK II
tunes that are good these they prescribed in detail

:
and posted up in the temples, and outside this

official list it was, and still is, forbidden to painters
and all otlier producers of postures and representations
to introduce any innovation or invention, whether in
such productions or in any other branch of music,
over and above the traditional forms. And if you
look there, you will find that the things depicted or
graven there 10,000 years ago (I mean what I
say, not loosely but literally 10,000) are no whit
better or worse than the productions of to-day, but
wrought with the same art.
CLIN. A marvellous state of affairs !
ATH. Say rather, worthy in the highest degree of

a statesman and a legislator. Still, you would find
in Egypt other things that are bad. This, however,
is a true and noteworthy fact, that as regards music
it has proved possible for the tunes which possess
a natural correctness to be enacted by law and

permanently consecrated. To effect this would be
the task of a god or a godlike man, even as in —
Egypt they say that the tunes preserved throughout
all this lapse of time are the compositions of Isis.
Hence, as I said, if one could by any means succeed

in grasping the principle of correctness in tune, one
might then with confidence reduce them to legal
form and prescription, since the tendency of pleasure
and pain to indulge constantly in fresh music has,
after all, no very great power to corrupt choric forms
that are consecrated, by merely scoffing at them as
antiquated. In Egypt, at any rate, it seems to have
—
had no such power of corrupting, in fact, quite the
reverse.
103
PLATO
C KA. âiverai ouT(o<i av ravra eyeiv ix rwv
VTTO GOV ra vvv Xex^^VTwv.
KB. 'Ap' ovv 6appovvre<i Xeycofiev rrjv ry
p,ov(Tifcf} Kal rff TTaiSia fiera ')(ôpeLa roiovrw ^(aipovTe^
r}av)(îav ov hvvdp.e6a dyeiv.
KA. "EcTTt ravra.
D Ae. 'A/j' ovv oi^% r]p,oiv 01 fxev veoi avrol
"Xopeveiv eroi/xoc, ro Be rcov Trpea/Svrepcov rifiojv
€K€Lvoupov
e/cXetTTfi vvv, o rroOovvre^ koI darraôfievoi riOe-
/x€v ovrco<i dycovaî rot? Swa/xevoif rj/xaf; on
p,dXiara elf rrjv veor'qra fiv^p-ij eireyeipeiv ;
KA. A\rj$earara.
^
Ae. M(ov ovv olco/xeOa Kal ko/jliBj) /jLarijv lov

E vvv XeyofjLevov Xoyov rrepl rSiv eopraôvroov Xeyecv
TOi'9 ttoXXoik;, on rovrov Bel ao(f>corarov rjyeiaOai
Kal Kpiveiv viKav, 09 av r]ixd^ eixppaLveadaL Kal
'Xâipeiv ort p,dXiara aTrepyd^rjrai ; Bet yap Bi],
iireLTrep dcpeifieOd ye iraiêiv ev Tot<? roiovroi<;,
rov TrXeicTTOU? Kal /xdXiara ')(aip€iv irocovvra,
rovrov fidXcara rifidaOai re Kai, oirep elirov vvv
Brj, ra viKijrrjpia <f>ep€iv. ap ovk opBoi<^ Xeyerai
658 Tc rovTO Kal Trpdrroir dv, el ravry ylyvoiro ;
KA. Ta;i^' dv.
104
LAWS, BOOK II
CLIN. Such would evidently be the case, judging

from what you now say.
ATH. May we confidently describe the correct
method in music and play, in connexion with
choristry, in some such terms as this : we rejoice
whenever we think we are prospering, and, con-
versely, whenever we rejoice we think we are
prospering? Is not that so?
CLIN. Yes, that is so.
ATH. Moreover, wlien in this state of joy we are
unable to keep still.
CLIN. True.
ATH. Now while our young men are fitted for
actually dancing themselves, we elders regard our-
selves as suitably employed in looking on at them,
and enjoying their sport and merry-making, now
that our former nimbleness is leaving us; and it is
our yearning regret for this that causes us to propose
such contests for those who can best arouse in us
through recollection, the dormant emotions of youth.
CLIN. Very true.
ATH. Thus we shall not dismiss as entirely
groundless the opinion now commonly expressed
I about merry-makers, — namely, that he who best
succeeds in giving us joy and pleasure should be
counted the most skilful and be awarded the prize.
For, seeing that we give ourselves up on such
occasions to recreation, surely the highest honour
and the prize of victory, as I said just now, should
be awarded to the performer who affords the greatest
enjoyment to the greatest number. Is not this the
right view, and the right mode of action too,
supposing it were carried out ?
CLIN. Possibly
105
PLATO
Ae. 'AW', 0) tuXv to toiovtov
fiaKapie,
fir)
KpLV(o/j.ev, aXXa hcaipouvTe^ avro kutu fiiprj

aKOTToofieda rouphe rivt rpoTTft)" n
av, ei iroTe Tt9
oi/Tco"? ttTrXw? a'ywva deu) ovrivovv, /xrjSev aôpiaa<i
lxr)T€ yv/xviKov fxrjTe /xovaiKOv /xy'jd' Ittttikov, aWa

TTavTa? avvayayoov roix; iv rfj TroXet TrpoeiiroL del';
viKrjTijpia rov ôv\6p.evov rjKeiv dycovtovfievov
r)8ovrj<; irepi p,6vov, 09 S' av Tepyjrr] tou? Oeara^;
B fiaXiara, p,i]8ev eTnraTTojjLevos (pTivi rpoirw,

viKTjarj 5e avro rovro oti /naXiara uTrepyaad-
fi€VO<; KoX KpiOfi Tcbv dycovKTa/xevcov rjScaToq 7670-
vevar ri ttot dv r)yovpi,eda e« TavT7)<; T7J<i trpop-
prj(Tea)<i ^vnâlveiv ;
KA. ToO "nipt Xeyei<;

A0. Ei/co? TTOV rov fxkv Tiva eTriSeiKvvvai,
KaOdirep "Op,T]po^, payjroiSLav, aWov Be Kidapwhiav,
Tov he Tiva rpaywhiav, rov 8' av Kojpwhiav.
ov Oavp,aaTov Se et rt? kuI Oavpara e7n8eiKvv<i
C p,dXi(TT^ av viKuv rjyolro. rovrcov Br] toiovtwi
Kal eTepcov dycoviarcov pvpiwv ekOovTWV eôyiiev
elirelv Tt<f dv vlkwtj BiKaioi<; ;
KA. ""Atottov rjpov Ti? yap dv diroKpivoLJo aoi

TovTO CO? yvov<; dv Trore irplv [dKovaai re] ^ Kai
Twv dOXrjTcov eKacTcov avrtJKOO^ avrof yeve-
(jQai
A0. Tt ovv Br] ; ôvXeade iyoo a(f)a)v Tr]V
aTOTTOv ravrrjv aTTOKpiaiv diroKpLvcopai ;
KA Tt p,r]v ;
A0. Ei pêv Toivvv rd irdw apifcpd Kplvoi

TraiBla, Kpivovai tov rd daupâra eTTiBeiKvvvTa.
V ydp ;
' kiovaai re] bracketed by Schanz.

106
LAWS, BOOK II
ATH. But, my dear sir, we must not decide this
matter hastily ; rather we must analyse it thoroughly

and examine it in some such fashion as this suppose :
a man were to organize a competition, without

qualifying or limiting it to gymnastic, musical or
equestrian sports and suppose that he should
;
assemble the whole population of the State and,

proclaiming that this is purely a pleasure-contest in
which anyone who chooses may compete, should offer
a prize to the competitor who gives the greatest
amusement to the spectators, without any restric-—
tions as to the methods employed, and who excels —
all others just in doing this in the highest possible
degree, and is adjudged the most pleasure-giving of
the competitors what do we suppose would be the
:
effect of such a proclamation ?

CLIN. In what respect do you mean ?
ATH. The natural result would be that one man
would, like Homer, show up a rhapsody, another a
harp-song, one a tragedy and another a comedy
nor should we be surprised if someone were even to
fancy that he had the best chance of winning with a
puppet-show. So where such as these and thousands
of others enter the competition, can we say who
will deserve to win the prize?
CLIN. An absurd question for who could possibly
;
pretend to know the answer before he had himself

actually heard each of the competitors ?
ATH. Very well, then do you wish me to supply
;
you with the answer to this absurd question ?

CLIN. By all means.
ATH. If the tiniest children are to be the judges,
they will award the prize to the showman of puppets,
will they not .''
107
PLATO
D KA. n&i? yap ov ;
A0. Eav he oi fi€Lôv<; TratSe?, tov xa?

7'
TpayoySlav Be a'l re Tre-rraiSevfierai tmv
KQ)/j.(p8La<i'
yvvaiKcov Kol ra vea /xeipaKia Kal aêSov t'crw*?
TO irXrjOo'i TrdvTcov.
KA. "Icro)? 8f]Ta.
Ae. 'VayjrfpSbv 8e, «aX<M9 'iXmSa /tai '08ya<r€mi'
^ Tt Tftiv 'HcrtoSetwf StaridevTa, rd^^ av rjfjb€i<; 01
lyepoPTd y]8c(TTa d/<ovaavT€<; viKav av
(âlfxev
irdfiTToXv. Ti? ovv opdoi^ av vcviktjkoo^ eirj, tovto
fierd TOVTO' 77 ydp ;
KA. Nat.
E Ae, ^rfKov O)? e/jLOiye Kal ufilv dvay/calov eaTi
(f)dvai Tovs VTTo Tb)v r)p,€Tepo)V rjXiKtwTCOV /cpiOevTa^
6pdo)<; av viKUv. to yap ctto? ^ r)p,iv twv vvv Brj
tmv iv Tai<; TroXeaiv aTra'o-ai? Kal
ird/XTToXv Sofcei
TtavTa-ôv ê\Ti<TTov yiyveadai.
KA. Tt jxrjv ;
A0. ^vyxojpo) Brj TO ye ToaouTov Kal 6700 to??

TToWot^, helv Tr)V fiovaiKrjv r/Soifj Kpiveadai, p^rj
p,evTOt TOiv ye iiriTVXôvTwv, dWa
(T)(êB6v eKetvrjv
elvai MoOtray KaXktcrTTjv, f]TL<; tou? /SeXTtcrrou?
659 /cal iKavco<i TreTraihevp.evov<i Tepnei, p,d\iaTa Be
^Tf? eva TOV dpeT^ Te Kal TraiSeta Bia(f)epovTa.
Bia TavTa Be dpeTi)^ <âpev BetaOai tou? tovtcov
KpiTds, OTt T^9 Te dWrjf; peT6)(ov<; avTou}? avTov aTraiBevaiafi, ovt^ av yi-
' »7roj Apelt: iQo% MSS.

108
LAWS, BOOK II
CLIN.Certauily they will.

ATH. And older lads to the exhibitor of comedies
while the educated women and the young men, and
the mass of the people in general, will award it to
the shower of tragedies.
CLIN. Most probably.
ATH. And we old men would very likely take
most delight in listening to a rhapsode giving a fine
recitation of the Iliad or the Odyssey or of a piece
from Hesiod, and declare that he is easily the
winner. Who then would rightly be the winner of
the prize ? That is the next question, is it not ?
cLiN. Yes.
ATH. Evidently we three cannot avoid saying that
those who are adjudged the winners by our own
contemporaries would win rightly. For in our
opinion epic poetry is by far the best to be found
nowadays anywhere in any State in the world.
CLIN. Of course.
ATh. Thus much I myself am willing to concede
to —
the majority of men, that the criterion of music
should be pleasure not, however, the pleasure of
;
any chance person rather 1 should regard that

;
music which pleases the best men and tlie highly

educated as about the best, and as quite the best
if it pleases the one man who excels all others in
virtue and education. And we say that the judges

of these matters need virtue for the reason that they
need to possess not only wisdom in general, but
especially courage. For the true judge should not
take his verdicts from the dictation of the audience,
nor yield weakly to the uproar of the crowd or his
own lack of education nor again, when he knows
;
the truth, should he give his verdict carelessly

lOQ
VOL. I. E
PLATO
yvcoaKovra 8i' dvavSpiav Koi SeiX-tap ex ravrov
aTofxaro^ ovirep tov<; deov^ eTreKaXeaaro fieWoov
B Kpivetv, CK rovTov yfrev86/u,ei>ov aTT0(âivea6at,
pa6v/jL(o]<;, aXXa
SiSdcTKaXo^:, W9 ye ro BiKaiov, Oearcov /jloXXov 6
KpiTT)<; KaOiêi, kuI evavTCO)(T6/xevo<; TOt? rrjv
^Sovrjv pr} TrpoarjKovTQ)^ p,t]8e 6pda) TrXi'jOei rS)v dearSiv imrpeTrcov koI
TOP viKcopTa hiaKpivwv 'XêLporoviai'i ScecpdapKe pêv

—
C TOt)? 7roi?/Ta9 avTov^ Trpo? yap ttjv tmv KpirSiv
r)hovi]v TToiovaiv ovcrav (f>avXrjv, tocne avTol
avTOV<i 01 dearal Traihevouac BLe<f)OapK€ S' avrov —
rov dedrpov rd^ ySovd'^' Seov yap avrov<; del
êXrico TOiV avTcov rjOwv dKOvovTa<; /SeXTto) rrfv
rjhovrjv ta'êiv, vvv avrol<i hpSiat irdv jovvavriov
^vp.âiv€i. rl ttot ovv rjp,tv rd vvv av Siajre-
pavOevra tw Xoytp arjpuiveiv ôvXerai ; (TKOTrelcrd^
el ToSe.
KA. To TTolov ;
A0. ÔKel poi TpLTOvTeraprov 6 X6yo<; elf rj
D Tavrov dpa naiBeta p,ev

Trepi(êp6pevo<i ijKeiv, eo?
€(t6 7] TraiScov oXKrj re kuI dywyi] tt/jo? tov vtto
Tov vopov Xoyov opOov elprjpevov real rol^ emeL-
KecrrdTOL^ Kal irpea^vrdroL'i St' ip^Treipiav ^vvSe-
hoypevov dx; oVtoj? 6pd6<; iariv Xv ovv r) "^v^
TOV TTftiSo? pr) ivavTLa ')(âipeiv Kal Xvireladat
idl^Tjrai T(p vop,(d Kal rot? vtto tov v6p,ov 'rreireia-
pevoL^, dXXd ^vveTrrjTai yaipovad re Kal Xv-
*
L^l^j' . . . v6fjLCf^ bracketed bj' Eugland.
lio
LAWS, BOOK II
througli cowardice and lack of spirit, thus swearing

falselyout of the same mouth with which he invoked
Heaven when he first took his seat as judge.^ For,
rightly speaking, the judge sits not as a pupil, but
rather as a teacher of the spectators, being ready to
oppose those who offer them pleasure in a way that
is unseemly or wrong and tliat is what the present
;
law of Sicily and Italy actually does: by entrusting

the decision to the spectators, who award the prize
by show of hands, not only has it corrupted the
poets (since they adapt their works to the poor
standard of pleasure of the judges, which means
that the spectators are the teachers of the poets),
but it has corrupted also the pleasures of the
audience for whereas they ought to be improving
;
their standard of pleasure by listening to characters

superior to their own, what they now do has just the
opposite effect. What, then, is the conclusion to be
drawn from this survey ? Is it this, do you suppose ?
CLIN. What ?
ATH. This is, I imagine, the third or fourth time
that our discourse has described a circle and come
—
back to this same point namely, that education is
the process of drawing and guiding children towards
that principle which is pronounced right by tiie law
and confirmed as truly right by the experience of
the oldest and the most just. So in order that the
soul of the child may not become habituated to
having pains and pleasures in contradiction to the
law and those who obey the law, but in conformity
thereto, being pleased and pained at the same things
* Judges at musical and gymnastic contests, like all

State-officials, took an oath to diacharge their duties with
fidelity. See further, Bk. vL 764 ft
III
PLATO
TTOv/xevrj rot? avTol<{ Toi/xot? olatrep 6 yepcov,
E TOVT(0V eueKa, a<t (p8a<i /caXov/xev, 6i/T(o<i fikv
eTroiBal ral'i y\rv)(âl<i (fiaivovTac ^ vvv 'yeyovevai,
Trpo? rrjv roiavTrjv rjv Xiyo/j-ev avfMcjicovlav iairov-
SacTfievai, Bia Beto cnrovBrjv fit] Bvvaadai êpeiu
Ta9 T(ov veiov ^frvxa<; naiBiai re Koi wBal ku-
XecaOai koI TrpuTTeadai, Kaddrrep roi<i Kap-voval
T€ KoX da6evo)<i lax^vat to, acofiara ev rjSeac real
660 <74Tiot? Kal TTtofiaac t^v )(^pT]crTr)v TreipSivrai,
rpoipTjv irpoaêpeLV ol]fiaai
Kol €TTaiveToi<; Treiaei re koI dvayKuaei p,T] ireidwv
ra T(op ao)(f)p6vQ}V re koI dvBpeiwv koi Trdvreo^
dyaOodv dvBpSiv ev re pvOp,oi€, ev Tal<i dWat,<t iroXeai rroielv ; eyoi pev yap
Kad^ oaov alcrddvopâi, ttXtjv Trap rjpiv rj irapd

AaKeBaip,ovloi^ a av vvv Xeyei^; ouk olBa
,
irparTopeva, Kaivh Be arra del yiyvopeva irepi

re rdî op^W^'''^ '^^* TtepX ttjv dXXr)v povcriKTjv
^vpiraaav, ov^ ^'"'o vopôiv peraâXX6p,eva d\V
viro Tivcov drdxTcov rjBovcov, ttoXXou Beovawv tcov
avTcov elvai <de\> ^ xai Kara Tavrd, co? ai) KaT
AtyuTTTOv d(f>€pp,7]V€V€i<;, dXX^ ovBeiTOTe riav
avTcbv.
C A0. "Apiard y, Si KXeivia. el b' eBo^d aoi &
ai) Xeyei^ Xeyeiv tw? vvv yiyvopeva, ovk dv Oav-
1 âivovrai: aSrai MSS. edd.

,
» <at\> I add.
iia
LAWS, BOOK II
as the old man, — for this reason we have what we

call " chants," which evidentlv are in reality incan-
tations ^ seriously designed to produce in souls that
conformity and harmony of which we speak. But
inasmuch as the souls of the young are unable to
endure serious study, we term these "j)lays" and
"chants," and use them as such, ^just as, when
people suffer from bodily ailments and infirmities,
—
those whose office it is try to administer to them
nutriment that is wholesome in meats and drinks
that are pleasant, but unwholesome nutriment in
the opposite, so that they may form the right
habit of approving the one kind and detesting the
other. Similarly in dealing with the poet, the
good legislator will persuade him or compel him —
with his fine and choice language to portray by his
rhythms the gestures, and by his harmonies the
tunes, of men who are temperate, courageous, and
good in all respects, and thereby to compose poejns
aright.
CLIN. In Heaven's name. Stranger, do you believe
that that is tlie way poetry is composed nowadays
in other States ? So far as my own observation goes,
I know of no practices such as you describe except
in my own country and in Lacedaemon ; but I do

know that novelties are always being introduced in
dancing and all other forms of music, which changes
are due not to the laws, but to disorderly tastes ;
and these are so far from being constantly uniform
—
and stable like the Egyptian ones you describe
that they are never for a moment uniform,
ATH. Nobly spoken, CliniasO If, however, 1
!
seemed to you to say that the practices you refer to

* i.e. charms or magic formulae, chanted over sick persons
(or over snakes, EiUhyd. 290 A) cp. 664 B.
:
>i3
PLATO
fidôi/jLi el fjLr] aacf)^ Xeyoov a Biavoovfiai tovto
CTTotr/cra Kal eiradov a\X' a ôvXofxai yCyveaOai
TTCpl [xovaLKrjV, ToiavT arra elirov tacci^, atare
(Tol Boâi ravra e/xe Xeyeiv. Xoihopelv yap
TrpdyfMaTa dviara Kal iroppw Trpoê^rjKora
d/xapTLa^ ovBa/MOt)^ rjBv, avayKalov S' ivioT ioTiv.
eTreiSi] Be javra ^vvhoKel Kal aoi, (pepe </>?)? Trap'
t) vfilv Kal TolaSe fxdXXov rj tTapd rot? dXXoL<;
"KXXriai yiyveaOat rd Toiavra ;
KA. Tt fl't]V ;
A0. Ti 6' €4 Kal irapd Tot? dXXoial/ji€v dv rj
KaOdirep vvv yiyveTai yiyvofxeva ;
KA. rioX-v TTOv TO Bia(f)epov, el Kaddirep irapd

T€ Tolahe Kal Trap Kal
rjpuv, en Kaddirep eirre's
av vvv Br) Beiv elvai, ylyvoiTO.
Ae. îpe Bt], ^vvofj,oXoyr)ad)fieda rd vvv. dXXo
E Tt Trap' vfuv ev irdarj TraiBeia Kal p^vatKrj rd
Xeyopêvd eari rdBe ; rov^ TroiT^ra? dvayKaêre
Xiyeiv eb? o fxev dyado<i dvrjp crdi^pwv oiv Kal
BiKaio<; €vBai/xQ)v iarl Kal fiaKdpio^, edv re
fMeya<; Kal l<T-)(ypo^ edv re crfiiKpo<; Kal uadevr]<i
Xeyei, ovt ev Xoyo) dvBpa t ideifirjv, 09 /"»;
wavTa rd \ey6p,eva KaXd fierd BiKaioavviri
TrpaTTOt Kal ktmto, Kal Bi] Kal Btjicdv toi,ovto<;
* Tyrtaeus xii. 6 see Bk. i. 629.

;
Cinyras was a fabled
king of Cyprus, son of Apollo and priest of Aphrodite.
Midas, king of Phrygia, was noted for his wealth.
114
LAWS, BOOK II
are in use now, very likely your mistake arose from

my own failure to express my meaning clearly ;
probably I stated my own desires with regard to

music in such a way that you imagined me to be
stating present facts. To denounce things that are
beyond remedy and far gone in error is a task that
is by no means pleasant ; but at times it is unavoid-
able. And now that you hold tlie same opinion on
this subject, come, tell me, do you assert that such
practices are more general among the Cretans
and the Lacedaemonians than among the other
Greeks ?
CLIN. Certainly.
ATH. Suppose now that they were to become
general —
among the rest also, should we say that
the method of procedure then would be better than
it is now ?
CLIN. The improvement would be immense, if
things were done as they are in my country and in
that of our friends here, and as, moreover, you
yourself said just now they ought to be done.
ATH. Come now, let us come to an understanding
on this matter. In all education and music in your
countries, is not this your teaching.? You oblige
the poets to teach that the good man, since he is
temperate and just, is fortunate and happy, whether
he be great or small, strong or weak, rich or poor ;
whereas, though he be richer even " than Cinyras

or Midas," ^ if he be unjust, he is a wretched man
and lives a miserable life. Your poet says if he
— —
speaks the truth "I would spend no word on the
man, and hold him in no esteem," who without
justice performs or acquires all the things accounted
good ; and again he describes how the just man
"5
PLATO
661 0)V opeyotTO e'^'^vQev larayiGvo^, d8iK0<; Be
&v fiijre To\fia> opSiv (f>6vov al fiaToevra firjre
viK(p Oiwv ©prjiKcov Bop€i]v, p,r]T€ dWo avTM
/xrjBep TcovXeyofievwv ayaOcov yiyvono ttotc to,
yap vTTo roiv iroWoiv Xeyofiera dyada ouk 6pd(b<;
Xeyerai. Xeyerai, yap &)? dpiarov p-ev vyialveiv,
hevrepov Be KciWoî, TpcTOV Be 7rXovTO<;. p,upia
Be dXKa ayada Xeyerai' Kal yap oû opav xaX
B uKOveiv kclI Trdvra oaa e'Xêrai rcov aiaOrjcrtoiv
evaiadi]ra><i eêty, en Be Kal to iroielv Tvpavvovvra
6 Ti dv ein9vp.fl, Kal to Br] TeXo? dirdarji; puKa-
pi6rr]ro<i elvai to irdvra ravra KeKrr]p,evov dddva-
Tov elvai yev6p,evov on rdj^Lcrra. vp,ei<i Be Kal
eyd) TTov rdBe Xeyopev, to? ravrd ean ^vpLTcavra

BiKaioi<i p,€v Kal ocrloi^ dvBpdaiv dpiara KTrjpaTa,
dBi,KOi<; Be KaKicrra ^vpiravra dp^dpeva diro .t^9
vyiela<i. Kal Brj Kal to opav Kal to uKoveiv Kal
C aladdveadai Kal ro Trapdirai' ^fjv p,eyicnov p,ev
KaKov rov ^vp.iravra ')(^p6vov dOdvarov ovra Kal
KeKTr]p,ei'0V irdvra rd Xeyopeva dyaOd ttXtjv
BiKaco(Tvvr)<i re Kal dperri<i uTrdarj^;, eXarrov Be,
dv o)? oXiyiarov 6 rotovro^ xpovov eTri^wv 17.^
TavTa Br} Xeyeiv olp,ac rov<; nap' vpiv Troirjrd^;,
drrep eyd), ireiaere kuI dvayKdaere, Kal en rovroi<;
eiropevov<i pvOp,ov<i re koI dpp,ovia<i diroSiBovra^
iraiBeueiv ovrco rovs veov<i vp6)v.^ r) yap ; Spare'
eyd) pev yap Xeyo) aa<j)Q}<; rd p,ev KaKa X€y6p,eva
dyadd rol^ dBiKOi^ elvai, roi<; Be BiKaioi<; KaKd,
rd 8' dyadd roi<; fiev dyadoi<; ovrui^ dyadd, rol<i
Be KaKol<i KaKd. orrep ovv 'r)pop.r)v, dpa ^vp,<f)covov-
p,ev eyd) re Kal vpêif ; rj 7T5)<i ;
* eiri^wv ^ Schanz : iiaC^T) MSS.

116
LAWS, BOOK II
"drives his spear against the foe at close quarters,"

whereas the unjust man dares not "to look upon the
face of bloody death," nor does he outpace in speed
of foot "the north wind out of Thrace," nor acquire
any other of the things called "good." For the
things which most men call good are wrongly so
described. Men say that the chief good is health,
beauty the second, wealth the third and they call ;
countless other things "goods" —

such as sharpness
of sight and hearing, and quickness in perceiving all
the objects of sense ; being a king, too, and doing
exactly as you please and to possess the whole
;
of these goods and become on the spot an immortal,

that, as they say, is the crown and top of all felicity.
But what you and I say is this, that all these —
things are very good as possessions for men who are
just and holy, but for the unjust they are (one and
all, from health downwards) very bad ; and we say
too that sight and hearing and sensation and even

life itself are very great evils for the man endowed
with all the so-called goods, but lacking in justice
and all virtue, if he is immortal for ever, but a lesser
evil for such a man if he survives but a short time.
This, I imagine, is what you (like myself) will
persuade or compel your poets to teach, and compel
them also to educate your youth by furnishing them
with rhythms and harmonies in consonance with this
teaching. Am I not right ? Just consider what I :
assert is that what are called "evils" are good for

the unjust, but evil for the just, while the so-called
"goods" are really good for the good, but bad for
the bad. Are you in accord with me, then, that —
—
was my question, or how stands the matter }
* vfiaiv : rtfjLciy MSS-, edd.

117
PLATO
KA. Ta fxev cfioiye (paivofieOd tto)?, to, 8' ovSa-
A0. Ap ovv vyieidv re K€KTr]fievov Koi ttXov-

rov Kul TvpavviSa 8id TeXov<i, kuI en TrpoariOrjfii
vfiiv la")(i)v 8ia(f)€povcrav Koi dvhpiav fier dda-
E vaala^, Kol firjSev dWo avTW rcov Xeyofievcou
KaKOiv elvai yiyvofievov, uBiKiav Se kuI v^piv
eôvra iv avr^t jmovov — tov ovto) ^covra i<7co<;
vfjLO,^ ov ireldu) fir] ouk dpa evhaifxova dX>C

ddXiov ylyveadai aa^w^ ;
KA. ÂXrjdearaTa X-eyef?.
A0. Etev' Tt ovv TO p,€rd tout* elireiv ^fj,d<i
êcov ; dvSpelo^; yap Bt] kuI la^^'pof Koi koXo^

Kal irXovaio';, xal iroiwv 6 rl irep iindvfxoi rov
662 ^lov aTravra, ovx vfilv BoKei, elirep dBcKO-j etrj Kal
v^pi(TT7]<;, i^ dvdyKtj<; alcT')(^p(ii}<; dv ^fjv ; rj tovto
fiev tcr&)9 dv avyx^copâaire, to ye ala^pw^ ;
KA. Haw fiev ovv.

A0. Tt Be ; to Kal KaK&f ;
KA. OvK dv €Ti rov6' 6p.olw<t.

A0. Tt Be ; to Kal dr]Bcb<; Kal fMT) ^vfKpepovro}^
avT(p ;
KA. Kal TTw? dv ravrd y' eri ^vyy^wpolfxev ;
A0. "Otto)? ; el 6eo<; rjfilv, o)? eotKev, &> (piXoi,,
B Boirj Tt<? <TVfjL<f>Q)VLav, a>9 vvv ye a-)(êBov aTraBofiev

air dXXrjXcov. ifiol yap Br] (patverai Tavra oi/tcu?
dvayKala, tu? ouSe, <w îXe KXeivia, Kp^jrij vr]ao<i
a-a(f)cb<i' Kal vofio6eT7]<; oov ravTrj Treipw/xTiv dv tou9

ii8
LAWS, BOOK II
CLIN. We are, apparently, partly in accord, but

partly quite the reverse.
ATH. Take the case of a man who has health
and wealth and absolute power in perpetuity, in —
addition to which bestow on him, if you like,
I
matchless strength and courage, together with im-

mortality and freedom from all the other " evils " so-
called, —
but a man who has within him nothing but
injustice and insolence probably I fail to convince
:
you that the man who lives such a life is obviously

not happy but wretched ?
CLIN. Quite true.
ATH. Well, then, what ought I to say next ? Do
you not think that if a man who is courageous,
strong, beautiful, and rich, and who does exactly as
he likes all his life long, is really unjust and insolent,
he must necessarily be living a base life Probably
.-'
you will agree at any rate to call it " base " .''
CLIN. Certainly.
ATH. And
also a bad life ? ^
CLIN. We
would not go so far as to admit that.
ATH. Well, would you admit the epithets " un-
pleasant " and " unprofitable to himself" ?
CLIN. How could we agree to such further
descriptions
ATH. ''How.'" do you ask.? Only (as it seems,
my friend) if some god were to grant us concord,
since at present we are fairly at discord one with

another. In my opinion these facts are quite indis-
—
putable even more plainly so, my dear Clinias, than
the fact that Crete is an island and were I a legis-
;
^ icoKit (tiv, "to live badly" may mean either "to live
wickedly " or " to live wretchedly " : Clinias takes it in this
latter sense.
119
PLATO
T6 TToirjrh'i dvayKd^€Cv (pdiyyecrdat Kal Trai/ra?
Tovi iv TTJ iroXec, îjfiiav re 6\i<yov ixeyianqv
eimiOevrjv av, et rt? iv rfj ^'wpa (^deyâno to?
C elcri Tive<; avOpwrroi TTore TTovrjpol /j,ii>, r/Seoyf Se
iôiVT€<;, rj XvaireXovvTa fx€v dWa iarl koX rcepha-
Xea, ScKatoTcpa Be dWa, koI rroWa drr^ dv napd
rd vvv Xeyofieva viro re Kprjrcov Kal AaKeSaip,o-
VLCdv, 0)9 eoiKe, Kal Srj rrov Kal roiv dWwv dvdpcoircov
8id<f)opa TTeidoifjL dv tou? TTo\lra<; pot <^6eyyea6ac'
(f>epe yip, <o Trpo? Ato? re Kal Â7r6X\,covo<;, w
dpicrroi rwv dvhpwv, el rov<; vop,oderr}aavra<; vp.iv
avrov<; rovrov<; epoip,e6a deov<;, dp* 6 8iKai6rar6<;
D ecrri îo<; TjStaro^, rj 8v ecrrov rive ^lco, olv 6 fiev
ijBiaro^ o)v rvy)(^dvei, hiKai6rarorS)p.ev, 7rorepov<; 8' evBacp,ov-

earepov<; 'X^pr) Xeyeiv, rov<; rov BiKaiorarov rj rov<i
rov rfhiarov 8ia^L0Vvra<; îov ; el p,ev hrj (paiev

rov^ rov rjhiarov, droiro^ avrcov 6 \0709 dv
yiyvoiro- ôvXofiai, Se fioi fxr) errl 6eS)v Xeye-
crdai ro roiovrov, aXV eirl Trarepcov Kal vo-
E p,odercov p.dXXov, Kal p,oi rd epurpocrdev rjpcori]-
fieva irarepa re Kal vop,o6err]v i^pcorijadco, 6 S"
elrrero) o)? ^mv rov TjBicrrov îov ecrrl p,aKa-
picoraro^. elra p.erd ravra eycoy^ dv (fialrjv, ^D,
vdrep, ov')( o)? evBaifxovearara p-e eôvXov ^fjv ;
a\X' del 8iaK€Xev6fievocovovvrQ)<; eavrS) Xeyeiv.
el 8^ av rov BiKaiorarov evBaifioveo'rarop diro-
LAWS, BOOK II
lator, I should endeavour to compel the poets and
all the citizens to speak in this sense and I should

;
impose all but the heaviest of penalties on anyone in

the land who should declare that any wicked men lead
pleasant lives, or that things profitable and lucrative
are different from things just and there are many
;
other things contrary to what is now said, as it seems,

—
by Cretans and Lacedaemonians, and of course by
—
the rest of mankind, which I should persuade my
citizens to proclaim. For, come now, my most ex-
cellent sirs, in the name of Zeus and Apollo, suppose
we should interrogate those very gods themselves
who legislated for you, and ask: "Is the most just
life the most pleasant; or are there two lives, of
which the one is most pleasant, the other most
just?" If they replied that there were two, we
might well ask them further, if we were to put the
correct question " Which of the two ought one to
:
describe as the happier, those that live the most just

or those that live the most pleasant life ? " If they
replied, "Those that live the most pleasant life,"
that would be a monstrous statement in their mouths.
But I prefer not to ascribe such statements to gods,
but rather to ancestors and lawgivers Imagine, then,
:
that the questions I have put have been put to an

ancestor and lawgiver, and that he has stated that the
man who lives the most pleasant life is the happiest.
In the next place I would say to him this " O :
father, did you not desire me to live as happily as

j>ossible? Yet you never ceased bidding me con-
stantly to live as justly as possible." And hereby,
as I think, our lawgiver or ancestor would be shown
up as illogical and incapable of speaking consistently
with himself. But if, on the other hand, he were to
121
PLATO
(fyalvoiTO /3lov elvai, ^rjrol ttov 7ra9 av 6 ukovoov,
oifiai, Ti ttot' iv avT(p to t/)? I'jSovrjf; KpetrToi
ayaOov re kuI Ka\ov o vo/j,o6eTr)^ ^ evov iiratvel
663 Tt 7a/3 hr) BiKaio) ')(â}pilô/jL€vov r]8ovrji\e vofiodera, (pi](TO/jLev. dXXa to
/jLi']T€ Tiva dhiKelv p^rjre viro Tivo<i dBifcetaOat ficov
drjBe^ pev,dyadov he rj icaXov, to, S' erepa rjSea
p.€P,alaxpd 8e koI KUKa ;
KA. Kat 7rw<? ;
A0. OvKOVV 6 pev p,r) ^^copl^cov \0709 rj8v re

Kal SiKaiov [«al dyaOov re koX KaXov^ ^ vcOavoî
B 7', el p.rjSev erepov, 7rp6? to riva iOeXeiu ^jju top
oaiov KOI hiKaLOV îov, atare vopoOejT) ye alcTX'''^-
to<? Xoyoiv Kol ei>avTi(oraTO<i 0? dv p,r) (pfj ravra
ovT(a<i e)(êcv' ovSel'i yap dv eKwv edeXoi ireiOeadai
TTpdrreLv touto oto) p.T) to jâipeLv tov Xvireladai
irXeov eTrerai. aKOToScvLav ^ he to noppoyOev
opwpevov irdaL re (o? eirof elirelv Kal hr) kuI Tot?
Tratcrl Trape'êf vopo6eTr)<; h' rjplv hoâv 6t9
TovvavTLOv TOVTOV KaTaaTTjCTei to <tk6tos dcjyeXoiv,
C Kal ireiaei dp,oioi<; Kal
\6yoi»'] bracketed by England.
• (TKOToZivlav England : ffKoroSiviSy MSS.
* ifwrlcf Apelt : ivavrlwi MSS.
LAWS, BOOK II
declare the most just life to be the happiest, every-

one who heard him would, I sup|>ose, enquire what
is the good and charm it contains which is superior to
pleasure, and for which the lawgiver praises it. For,
apart from pleasure, what good could accrue to a just
man ? " Come, tell me, is fair fame and praise from
the mouths of men and gods a noble and good thing,
but unpleasant, while ill-fame is the opposite ? " " By
no means, my dear lawgiver," we shall say. And is
it unpleasant, but noble and good, neither to injure
anyone nor be injured by anyone, while the op|>osite

is pleasant, but ignoble and bad ?
CLIN. By no means.
ATH. So then the teaching which refuses to separ-
ate the pleasant from the just helps, if nothing else,
to induce a man to live the holy and just life, so
that any doctrine which denies this truth is, in the
eyes of the lawgiver, most shameful and most hateful
for no one would voluntarily consent to be induced
to commit an act, unless it involves as its consequence
more pleasure than pain. Now distance has the
effect of befogging the vision of nearly everybody,
and of children especially ; but our lawgiver will
reverse the appearance by removing the fog,* and by
—
one means or another habituation, commendation,
or argument —will persuade people that their notions
of justice and injustice are illusory pictures, unjust
objects appearing pleasant and just objects most
unpleasant to him who is opposed to justice, through
being viewed from his own unjust and evil stand-
* i.e. the lawgiver will make justice clear and distinct by
bringing citizens close up to it: discipline in just actions

¥nll give tliem a near and true view of it, and correct the
wrong iuipression due to distance.
123
PLATO
povfxeva, r}hea, ra Be BcKata arjhearaTa, ex Be
SiKaiou irdvra ravavria iravri] 7rpo<i aficpoTepa.
KA. âiverat.
Ae. Ttjv 8 aXrjdeiav t?)? Kpiaeca^ irorepav
Kvptcorepav eJvai ^Stfiev ; irorepa ttjv t^? êt,popo<i
i/rfT^?}? rj Trjv Trj<i ^€\riovo<; ;
KA. Âvajfcalov rrov ttjv Tr)<i apêivovo^.

D A0. Xva'yKOLOV apa top ahiKOv îov ov povov
^
ala'xia) fcal pLO-)(dr}p6T€pov, aWa

koX arjhearepov
rfi aXrjOeta tov BiKauov re eivai kuX oatov ^lov.
KA. KivBvvevei, Kara ye tov vvv \6yov, S)
(ftiXot.
A0. No/xo^tT^y? Be ov Ti Kal a-piKpov o0e\o9, el
KoX p,7i TOVTO rjv ovrco'i exov, <y? xal vvu avro
VPVX ^ ^0709 ^X^''^' c*""^/' T'' '(^*' ciWo CToXprjaev
av eV ayaOw yfrevBeaOai irpo^ tov? veov<;, eariv 6
T4 Tovrou y{reuSo<: \vaLre\earepov av eyjrevcTaTo
TTore Kal Bvvdpevov p,ak\ov <7reLdeiv> ^ TToielv
E 1.17] ^ta dW
eKovra'i <TrdvTa'i> ^ Tvdvra to,
BiKaia ;
KA. KaXoi/ pev r] d\rj6eia, o) êve, ftal povipov
€0iK€ pr)v ov pdhiov elvat ireideLv.
A0. \\ilev TO pevTOc ^lBcovlov ^ pv$oX6yt]pa
pdBiov eyeveTO ireideu', ovto)<; diridavov ov, Kal
dWa pvpia.
Ylola ;
KA.
A0. To
crirapevTwv voTe oBovtcov OTrXlraf i^
avTbiv (fivvai. xai rot, p,eya 7' earl vopodeTy
664 irapdBeiypa tov Treiaeiv 6 Ti av i'Trt,')(eipfi Ti
* <»a»'Tos> added by Euseb.
124
LAWS, BOOK ir
{)Oint, but M-hen seen from the standpoint of justice,

both of them appear in all ways entirely the opposite.
CUN. So it appears.
ATH. In point of truth, which of the two judg-
ments shall we say is the more authoritative, that —
of the worse soul or that of the better ?
CLIN. That of the better, undoubtedly.
ATH. Undoubtedly, then, the unjust life is not
only more base and ignoble, but also in very truth
more unpleasant, than the just and holv life.
CLIN. It would seem so, my friends, from our
present argument.
ATH. And even if the state of the case were
different from what it has now been proved to be by
our argument, could a lawgiver who was wortli
his salt find any more useful fiction than this
(if he dared to use any fiction at all in addressing
the youths for their good), or one more effective in
persuading all men to act justly in all things willingly
and without constraint ?
CLIN. Truth is a noble thing. Stranger, and an
enduring; yet to persuade men of it seems no easy
matter.
ATM. Be it so yet it proved easy to persuade
;
men of tlie Sidonian fairy-tale,^ incredible though it

was, and of numberless others.
CLIN. What tales?
ATH. The tale of the teeth that were sown, and
how armed men sprang out of them. Here, indeed,
the lawgiver has a notable example of how one can,
if he tries, persuade the souls of the young of any-
* About Cadmus ; cp. Eep. 414 C.
' fjLtvTot ZiSwciot' England : îkv rov "iiZmvlov MSS.

125
PLATO
avTOV hel (TKOTTovvra avevpiaKeiv r) ri Trelcra^
/Mcyiarov ayaOov epydaaiTO av ttoXiv, tovtov Se
Trepi TTaaav
fjurj-âvriv eupiaKeiv ovtiv av ^ TTore
TpoTTov rotavrr} ^vvoiklo Tracra irepl tovtoov ev
rj
KoX ravTov on fidXicTTa (f^deyyoiT del 8ia îov

TravTo^; ev re w8atia^r)T7]aai tw Xoyw.
B KA. 'AX,X' ov fioi (fyaiverai 7rpo9 ye ravra
hvvaadai rjficiyv dfjLcpKT^tjrrjaai ttot' av ovB€Tepo<i.
A0. To fieTo. TOVTO Tolvvv efx.ov dv etrj Xeyeiv.
^rjfil yap aTravra? Selv eirdZeiv r/jet? 6vTa<i tou?
')(ôpov<; en veaa ovcrat<; rat? '^vxcu'i fcal d'waXa'i'i
Toyv 7rai8cov, rd re dWa Ka\d keyovrw; Trdvra

oaa Bie\T]\vOa/jL€v re koX en SieXOoi/xev dv, to Be
KecfydXaiov aurcov tovto ecrrw tov ainov tjSkttov
re Kal dpicnov vtto Oewv /3lov Xeyeadai ^daKovre^
C dXrjdearaTa epovfiev dp.a kuI fMaXXov ireiaofiev
ov<i Bel ireideiv r) edv dXX(o<i ircof(^deyywfieda
Xeyovre<i.
KA. l^vyx'^^PV^ôv a Xeyei<i.
A0. YlpoiTOv /j,€v Tolvvv 6 yiovaoiv %opo9 6
TraiBiKo^ opOorar dv elaioL irpSiro^ rd TOiavra
eh TO fiecrov acroiJievo^ dTrdarrj (nrovBfj koI oXt] ttj
TToXei, BevTepoi; Be 6 rpidKovra eroiiv, tov re

P'i'X^pi
Tlaidva eTriKaXovfievo'; fidpTupa TOiv Xeyofievcov
dXi]Oeta<; rrepi Kal Toi<i veot^ 'iXeuv /xeTa ireidoii'i
D yiyveaOai iTTev)(^6fievo<i. Bel Be Brj Kal €ti t/o/tou?
^ SvTtv' &v Sclianz : Svnva MSS.
^ At Spartan festivals it was customary to have three

choirs — of boys, young men, and older men.
126
LAWS. BOOK II
thing, so that the only question he has to consider

in his what would do most good to the
inventing is
State, if it were believed and then he must devise

;
all possible means to ensure that the whole of the

community constantly, so long as they live, use
exactly the same language, so far as possible, about
these matters, alike in their songs, their tales, and
their discourses. If you, however, think otherwise,
I have no objection to your arguing in the opposite
sense.
CLIN. Neither of us, I think, could possibly argue
against your view.
ATH. Our next subject I must handle myself. I
maintain that all the three choirs ^ must enchant the
souls of the children, while still young and tender,
by rehearsing all the noble things which we have
already recounted, or shall recount hereafter and ;
let this be the sum of them in asserting that one

:
and the same life is declared by the gods to be both

most pleasant and most just, we shall not only be
saying what is most true, but we shall also convince
those who need convincing more forcibly than we
could by any other assertion.
CLIN. We must assent to what you say.
ATH. First, then, the right order of procedure
will be for the Muses' choir of children to come
forward first to sing these things with the utmost
vigour and before the whole city ; second will come
the choir of those under thirty, invoking Apollo
Paian^ as witness of the truth of what is said, and
praying him of his grace to persuade the youth.
The next singers will be the third choir, of those
• i.«. "the Healer." Cp. the medicinal sense of iraifip,
" enchant," in B4 above. Music is to be a medicine of the soul.
127
PLATO
TOV<i VTrep TpicLKovra err) fJ.€)(pi tcjv i^tjKOvra
yeyovoTa^ aSeiv roix; Se fiera ravra, ov yap en
SvvaTol (pepeiv (pBd<i, fiv6o\6yov^ irepl rcov avroiv
rjdo)V Blo. 9eia<i (Prj/xij^; KaTaXeXelifidai.
KA. Aeyet? 84, w êve, riva^ Tovrov<; tov<;
•Xôpoix; rov<{ Tpirov<i ; ov yap jravv ûi'Cefiev
aa(f)cti<; o ri Trore ôvXei (ppdêiv avT&v irepi.
A0. Kat ye ovroi (j')(eBov cov X^P^^
fir]V elcri °*'
irXetcnoi rtov e/XTrpoadev epprjOijaav \6ycov.

E KA. OvTTQ) /j,€fiadi]Kafjiev, dXX' en aatêcrrepov
rreipco cfypdêiv.
A0. Ktiro/jLev, el /xepvi'ipeda, Kar dpx^^ twi'
Xoycov ft)? Tj ^v(Tiv t&v dWoiv pev ^(ocov ovBev €(f)drrT0ir6,
T) Be dvOpdiTTOv (f)vcri(; exoi p-ovri tovto' rfi Br) t%
665 KLvrj(reco<i rdêi pv9p,o<i 6vop,a elrj, ttj 8' av rrj^
<f)Q)vPj^, rov re 6êo<i dp,a Kal /3apeo<; avyKepavvv-
pevcov, dppovia ovopa •wpocayopevoiTO, ôpeta Be
TO ^vvap<ôTepov KXrjOeii]. 6€0v<i 5' e(pap€v eXe-
ovvTa^ r)p,d^ avyxopevrdi; re Kal x^PVy^^f VP'^^
BeBcoKevai rov re AiroXkwva Kal ^\ov!ja<i, Kal Br}
^
Kal rpirov e(f)ap,ev, el p,ep,vi]peOa, Aiovvaov.

JI(o<; 5' ov p,ep,vrjpe6a ;
KA.
'O p,ev roivvv rov 'AttoXXwi/o? Kal twu
Ae.
Movacbv %o/D09 eipr)VTai, top Be rpirov Kal rov
B XoiTTOv X^P^^ dvdyKJ] rov ^tovvcrov XeyeaOai.
KA. t\.oi<i Bi] ; Xiye' p,dXa yap dro7ro<i ylyvoir*
128
LAWS, BOOK II
over thirty and under sixty ; and lastly, there were

left those who, being no longer able to uplift the
song, shall handle the same moral themes in stories
and by oracular speech.
CLIN. Whom do you mean, Stranger, by these
third choristers ? For we do not grasp very clearly
what you intend to convey about them.
ATH. Yet they are in fact the very people to
whom most of our previous discourse was intended
to lead up.
CUN. We are still in the dark tr>' to explain
:
yourself more clearly still.

ATH. At the commencement of our discourse we
said, if we recollect, that since all young creatures
are by nature fiery, they are unable to keep still
either body or voice, but are always crying and
leaping in disorderly fashion we said also that none
;
of the other creatures attains a sense of order, bodily

and vocal, and that this is possessed by man alone ;
and that the order of motion is called rhythm,"
'*'
while the order of voice (in which acute and grave

tones are blended together) is termed " harmony,"
and to the combination of these two the name
"choristry " is given. We stated also that the gods,
in pity for us, have granted to us as fellow-choristers
and choir-leaders Apollo and the Muses, besides —
whom we mentioned, if we recollect, a third,
Dionysus.
CLIN. Certainly we recollect.
ATH. The choir of Apollo and that of the Muses
have been described, and the third and remaining
choir must necessarily be described, which is that ot
Dionysus.
GUN. How so t Tell us ; for at the first mention
129
PLATO
av c5<? 7' iâi,(f>v7](; aKOvcravri Aiovvaov Trpec/SvTcov
')(ppo'i, el dpa ol uirep TptaKovra kuI rrevr-qKovra
he yeyovore^; cttj fie^pt k^rjKOVTa avrw )(op€V-
A0. A\r]de(TTaTa /j-euroi Xeyeti;.

' Xoyov 8r]
Bel 7rpo<iTavra, olfiai, otttj tovto evXoyov ovrco
yiyuofievov av yiyvono.
KA. Tt fjbrjv ;
A0. A/a' ovv rjfilv to. ye efnrpoaOev ofioXo-

yeiTUi
C KA. ToO irepi
Ae. To Belv irdvra dvBpa Kal nalSa, eXevdepov
Kcu BovXov, OfjXvv re Kal dp'peva, Kal oXjj rfj iroXei
oXrjv rrjv ttoXiv avTrjv avrrj eTrdBova-av fir] wave-
ddal, TTore ravra a BieXrjfXvO afiev dfico^ ye tto)? del
fiCTaâXXofieva Kal 'rrdvTa)<i irapexop-eva ttockc-
Xiav, ware aTrXtjariav elval riva tcov Vfivcav rol^
dBov(Ti Kal T)BoVt]V.
KA. ricij? B' ovx ofioXoyolro av Beiv ravra ovrca
TrpdrreaOai ;
D Ae. Ylov Brj Tovd^ f]p,lv TO dpia-TOV rrjq TroXeo)?,

rfXiKiai^ re Kal d/xa (^povrjaecTL TnOavcoraTov ov
TMv ev rf) TToXei, aBov rd KoXXicna fxeyiaT av
iêpydÔLTO dyadd
; rj tovto dvo7]T(o<i ovTco'i
d(f)t']<TO/jL€v, Kvpioorarov av etr] rSiv KaXXicrrcov re
Kal dxêXiiMdiTdTwv <pBcov ;
KA. 'AXX' dBvvaTov TO fiedievai, &<; ye rd vvv
Xey6[xeva.
A0. T\6i<; ovv Trperrov av eirj tovto ; 6 pare ei
TTJBe.
KA. n^ Bi]
Ae. Ha? 'rrov yiyvofievo^ Trpea/3vT€po<i okvov

130
LAWS, BOOK II
of it, men sounds mighty

a Dionysiac choir of old
strange, —
you mean tliat men over thirty, and
if
even men over fifty and up to sixty, are really going
to dance in his honour.
ATH. That is, indeed, perfectly true. It needs
argument, I fancy, to show how such a procedure
would be reasonable.
CLIN. It does.
ATH. Are we agreed about our previous proposals ?
CLIN. In what respect ?
ATH. That it is the duty of every man and child
— bond and free, male and female, and the duty of —
the whole State, to charm themselves unceasingly
with the chants we have described, constantly
changing them and securing variety in everv way
possible, so as to inspire the singers with an insati-
able appetite for the hymns and with pleasure therein.
CLIN. Assuredly we would agree as to the duty of
doing this.
ATH. Then where should we put the best element
in the State, —
that which by age and judgment alike
is the most influential it contains, so that by sing-—
ing its noblest songs it might do most good ? Or
shall we be so foolish as to dismiss that section
which possesses the highest capacity for the noblest
and most useful songs?
CLIN. We cannot possibly dismiss it, judging from
what you now say.
ATH. What seemly method can we adopt about it ?
Will the method be this ?
CUN. What ?
ATH. Every man as he grows older becomes
^ Xoptvaovffiv MSS. : xop^^"""'^ Zur.

PLATO
7r/j09 Ta<; cJSa? /i-ecrTO?, Kal 'yâipet tc T^ttov irpaT-
Tcov TOVTO Kal dvdyKr](i yiyvo/xevrj^;
aiayyvoir av
E fidXXov, o(TQ) 7rp6cr^vTepopov€(rrepo<i
yiyverai, roato jxdWov. dp ovy ovtco<; ;
KA. OVT(0 /jL€V ovv.
A0. OvKovv ev dedrpw ye Kal 7ravTOLoii'aaK'qK6re<i lcy)(yol re koa.
dairoi dvayKdôiVTO aSeiv ol toiovtoi, travrdTraai
TTov dr)8(o<; re Kal ala)(î'VTr]\(ji)'i aSovre^ dtrpodv-
fi(0<; dp TovT epydôcvTO.
666 KA. ' AvayKaiorara fxevroi \eyei<s,

A0. Ilw? ovv avTOv^ Trapafivdrjao/j.eda Trpodv-
fxov<; eivai tt/jo? ra? ftj8a9 ; dp" ov vopLodeTrjaofjiev
irpMTOv jxev tou? iralha'; fiexpt- erwv OKTWKaiheKa
TO Trapdirav olvov firj yeveadai, hihdaK0VTe<; eu? 6v
XPV "^^P ^'^'' "^^P o'Xêreuetv et? re to crco/xa Kal ttju
'^vx,']v, TTplv €7rl Tou? TTovov^ eyxîpelv iropeveadai,
TTjv e/nfiavT] ev\aôvjj,evot eîv tcov veayv jxerd he
TOVTO oXvov fiev Brf yeveaOai rov fxeTplov pe'x^pi
B TpiaKovTa ircov, p,e6ri<i he Kal TcoXvoivla^ to
Trapdirav rov veov d'jTe')(e(Tdai' rerrapaKovra he
eiTiâivovra irtov, ev Tot? ^vacnrLoi<i evwxÔevra,
KaXelv T0U9 re dWov<; 6eov<i Kal hrj Kal ^lovvaov
irapaKaXelv eh rr]v rwv Trpecr^vrcov reXerrjv dp,a
Kal rraihidv, fjv rol<; dvdpdoiroi'i eTTLKOvpov t% rov
^
y}]pco^ avcrrr)p6Tr)T0<; ehoaprjcraro [rov olvov^
(j)dpfiaKov war dvrj^dv Tjfid<;, xal hvcrOvfiiaii
Xrjdr) 2 yiyvecrdai fxaXaKcorepov e« CTKXijporepov
C TO T^9 -^v')(ri<i ^]6o^, Kaddirep eh irvp (Tihrjpov
* [rhv oh'ov] I bracket (so too England).

LAWS, BOOK II
reluctAnt to sing songs, and takes less pleasure in

doing so and when compelled to sing, the older he
;
is and the more temperate, the more he will feel

ashamed. Is it not so ?
cuN. It is.
ATH,Surely, then, he will be more than ever

ashamed to get up and sing in the theatre, before
people of all sorts. Moreover, if old men like that
were obliged to do as the choristers do, who go
lean and fasting when training their voices for a
competition, they would assuredly find singing an
unpleasant and degrading task, and they would
undertake it with no great readiness.
CLIN. That is beyond a doubt.
ATH. How
then shall we encourage them to take
readily to singing ? Shall we not pass a law that, in
the first place, no children under eighteen may
touch wine at all, teaching that it is wrong to pour
fire upon fire either in body or in soul, before they
set about tackling their real work,and thus guarding
against the excitable disposition of the young ? And
next, we shall rule that the young man under thirty
may take wine in moderation, but that he must
entirely abstain from intoxication and heavy drink-
ing. But when a man has reached the age of forty,
he may join in the convivial gatherings and invoke
Dionysus, above other gods, inviting his presence
all
at the rite (which also the recreation) of the elders,
is
which he bestowed on mankind as a medicine potent

against the crabbedness of old age, that thereby we
men may renew our youth, and that, through
forgetfulness of care, the temper of our souls may
lose its hardness and become softer and more
* A^«p Burges, Bamet : A^^jf MSS.

^35
PLATO
ivredevra TrjKo/xevov,^ koX ovto}<; evirXaaroTepov
eivai ; TrpwTov fiev Srj Bcaredel^ ovrca eKacrTO<;
ap ovK av iOeXoi Trpodvixorepov ye, rjrrov aia-)(y-
vo/jL€vo<;, OVK iv TToWot^ aX.V iv ixerpioL^, kcu ovk
€v a\\oTpLoio7ro9 ovk av iravTa-
iraaiv da-^-^fiayv yiyvono.
KA. Ou8ayu,aJ9.
A0. Ylolav he oiaovcriv ^ ol dvSpe yovv, (o êve, Kalo'iSe ovk dWrjv dv

Tiva hvvalp.e6a m8t)v rj rjv iv rol^ ')(ppol<; ip,d6o/J,ev
^vvrjdeL<i aheiv yevopbevoi.
A0. EtVoTO)? 76* ovTft)? yap ovk eTrijôXoi
E yeyovare tt}? KaWicrrr)^ oJS%. (rrpaTOTrehov yap
TToXireiav eyere, dXX! ovk iv darecn KaTqyKrjKOTcov,
aX,X.' olov dOpoov<i rrdyKov^ iv dyeXrj ve/.wp,evov^
(f)op^d8a<; Tov<; veov^ KeKTTjade. Xaôiv he v/xoyv
ov8el<i TOP avrov, irapd joiv ^vvvo/jlcov cnrdaaf;
a(f)6hpa dypiaivovra Kal dyavaKrovvTa, Ittttoko-
fiov Te irreaTqaev Ihia Kal irathevei yfr^ywv re Kal
r)fjbep(iiiv Kal Trdvra irpocrrjKOVTa dTTohihoi/q rfj
^ Tr)K6iJ.(vov : ytyv6ixfvov MSS., edd.
* otcTovoiv : aXffovffiv MSS. : Viffovaiv Porson, Schanz.
* [(pwviiv ^ MoCffoi'] bracketed by W.-MoUendorff.
LAWS, BOOK II
ductile, even as iron when

it has been forged in
the fire. Will not this softer disposition, in the
first place, render each one of them more ready
and less ashamed to sing chants and '"incantations"
(as we have often called them), in the presence,
not of a large company of strangers, but of a small
number of intimate friends ?
CLIN. Yes much more ready.
I
ATH. So then, for the purpose of inducing them

to take a share in our singing, this plan would not be
altogether unseemly.
CLIN. By no means.
ATH. What manner of song will the men raise ?
Will it not, evidently, be one that suits their own
condition in every case ?
CLIN. Of course.
ATH. What song, then, would suit godlike men ?
Would a choric song ^ ?
CLIN. At any rate. Stranger, we and our friends

here would be unable to sing any other song than
that which we learnt by practice in choruses.
ATH. Naturally ; for in truth you never attained
to the noblest singing. For your civic organisation
is that of an army rather than that of city-dwellers,
and you keep your young people massed together

like a herd of colts at grass none of you takes his
:
own colt, dragging him away from his fellows, in

spite of his fretting and fuming, and puts a special
groom in charge of him, and trains him by rubbing
him down and stroking him and using all the means
^ i.e. a song suited for singing by a chorus at a festival or
other public occasion.
* atl Schanz : Sel MSS.

PLATO
nraiooT po^'ia, oOev ov /xovov ayado^ av (npaTida-
667 TT79 eiTj, TToXiv Se koI clo-tt} hvvd/xevo^ SioiKeiv, ov
Of) KUT dpx^'i e'LTTO/uev Twv Tvpraiov iroXefiiKwv
eivai TToXe/xiKcoTepov, TeTuprov dperfj^ dW
ov
TrpoiTOv Trjv dvhpiav /crr]fj,a Ti/jLcovra del koI irav-
Tayôv l8i(oTai<; re kuI ^v/jiTrdar} TroXei.
KA. OvK o78a rjp,cov, & îve, otttj ttuXiv av
T0U9 vop,odera<i âvXltêi^
A0. OvK, Si fâde, Tvpodkyoiv tovtw tov vovv
opoi rovTO, eXirep' dX,V 6 X0709 oirr] (pepei, Tavrrj
TTopevMfieda, ôvXecrOe. el yap e%Oyu,ei/ Mover av
el
T)}? rcov KaXXlo) Kal t^? ev TOtii koivoU
')(ôp6)v
B dedrpoi<;, TreipcofieOa dTroSovvai rovTOif ou? (f)ap,ev
eKeivrjv fiev ala-^vveadai, ^rjTelv 8e ^rt? KaXXCaTr]
TavTrjf; Koivcovelv.
KA. Tldvv ye.
A0. OvKovv irpcoTov fiev Set ToSe ye V7rdp)êiv
airamv oaoL<i crvfxTrapeiTeTai ti<; ^dpi^;, 77 rovro
avro fiovov avTov ro (nrovha lorarov eivai Tiva rj
opdoTTjra to rptrov wcjieXeiav ; olov Br) Xeyto

rj
eBecBrj p,ev KaX iroaei Ka\ ^vp.irdar] rpoc^fi -nape-

ireadai pev rrjv ')(dpiv, fjv rjSovrjv av irpoaeiTTOLpbev
C fjv Be opdoTTjrd re Kal d)(f)e\eiav, oirep vyieivoi
TMV Trpoacfiepopevcov Xeyopbev eKaaToie, tovt avTC

elvai ev avTOi^ Kal to opdoiarov.
KA. Tldvv pev ovv.
^ The following passage (dowti to 669 B) deals with the
considerations of which a competent judge must take account

in the sphere of music and art. He must have regard
to three things —
"correctness" (the truth of the copy to
the original), moral effect or "utility," and "charm" or
136
LAWS, BOOK II
proper to child-uursiug, that so he may turn out not

only a good soidier, but able also to manage a State
—
and cities in short, a man who (as we said at the
first) is more of a warrior than the warriors of
Tyrtaeus, inasmuch as always and everywhere, botli
in States and in individuals, he esteems courage as
the fourth in order of the virtues, not the first.
CLIN, —
Once again, Stranger, you are in a sort of
a way — disparaging our lawgivers.
ATH. It is not intentionally, my friend, that I do
so —if I am doing it but whither the argument leads
;
us, thither, if you please, let us go. If we know of

a music that is superior to that of the choirs or to
that of the public theatres, let us try to supply it to
those men who, as we said, are ashamed of the
latter, yet are eager to take a part in that music
which is noblest.
CLIN. Certainly.
ATH.^ Now, in the first place, must it not be true
of everything which possesses charm as its con-
comitant, that its most important element is either
this charm in itself, or some form of correctness, or,
thirdly, utility ? For instance, meat and drink and
nutriment in general have, as I say, for concomitant
that charm which we should term pleasure but as ;
regards their correctness and utility, what we call

the wholesomeness of each article administered is
precisely the most correct element they contain.
CLIN. Certainly.
pleasure. Though this last, by itself, is no criterion of

artistic excellence, it is a natural "concomitant" (in the
mind of the c impetent judge) when the work of art in
question possesses a high degree of both "utility" and
" correctneas."
PLATO
Kal /jLTjv Kal rfj naOrjcrei vapaKoXovdeiv
A0.
fievTO 76 T^? âptTO? Tr)v rjSovtjv, rr/v Se 6p06T7}ra
Kal rrjv uxjieXeiav xal to ev koI to Ka\oi<i rrjv
dXi]0€iav elvai rrjv airorekovaav.
KA. KaTlV OVTCOS.
D A©. Tt 8erf);jwv ofioLcov epyaala, ocrat
ri^vai elKacrriKai, ap^ ovfc, av rovro iêpyd^covrai,
TO fiev i)hovqv iv avTol^ yiyveadai, irapeiTOfjievov
iav yiyvriTaL, X^P''^ avro BiKaioraTOv av ecrj
TTpoaayopeveiv ;
KA. Nat.
Ae. Triv 8e ye opdoTr^rd irov tmv roiovroiv 17
laoTrj^ dv, ft)9 eVt to irdv elirelv, iêpydôiro tov
Te ToaouTOv Kal tov tolovtov irporepov, aW' ov-^
rjSovq.
KA. KaXw?.
A0. OvKOvv rjhovfi KpiVOtT dv fiovov eiceivo
E 6p6a)<i, fi7]T€ Tivd dXrjOeiav /xt;t€
oi)(f)e\eiav /mrjTe
ofJiotoTyTa d'jTepyaô/j.evov irapexeTai, /xrjS' av ye

^Xd/Brjv, aXX' avTOv tovtov fxovov evexa ylyvoiTO
TOV ^vfiTrapeTTOfievov Tot? dXXoL^, tt)? â'piTO?,
Tjv 87} KdXXiaTd Ti9 ovo/iidaai dv -qSovriv, OTav
/MTjBev avTrj tovtcov iiraKoXovdrj ;
KA. Â^Xa^Tj Xeyei<; tjBovtjv fiovov.

Nat, Kal TraiStdv ye elvai Tr}v avTTjv
A0.
TavTTjv Xeyco t6t€ OTav prjTe Tt /SXaTnTj fxrjTe
ai(f)eX7} cnrovBrj^ rj Xoyov a^cov.
ÂXtjOecTTaTa Xeyei<i.
KA.
A0. 'A/3' ovv ov irdaav p,ip,r)(Tt.v (pal/xev dv 6k
t5)v vvv Xeyofievcov rjKLaTa rjhovfi TrpoaijKeiv xpi-
668 veaOai Kal 86^7) fir) dXrjdei, koI Brj Kal irdaav
laoTTjTa ; ov yap el T(p hoKel rj [/x?^] ^ Tt? ;;âi/)€t,
138
LAWS, BOOK II
ATH. Learning, too, accompanied by the ele-

is
ment of charm, which is but that which

pleasure ;
produces its correctness and utility, its goodness and

nobleness, is truth.
CLIN. Quite so.
ATH. Then how about the imitative arts which
produce likenesses ? If they succeed in their pro-
ductions, should not any concomitant pleasure which
results therefrom be most proiêrly called " charm " ?
CLIN. Yes.
ATH. But, speaking generally, the correctness of
these things would be the result not, primarily, of
pleasure, but of equality in respect of both quality
and quantity.^
CLIN. Excellent
ATH. Then we shall rightly judge by the criterion
of pleasure that object only which, in its effects,
produces neither utility nor truth nor similarity, nor
yet harm, and which exists solely for the sake of
the concomitant element of charm, which element —
will best be named " pleasure " whenever it is accom-
)>anied by none of the other qualities mentioned.
CLiN. You mean only harmless pleasure.
ATH. Yes, and I say that this same pleasure is
also play, whenever the harm or good it does is
negligible.
CLIN. Very true.
ATH. Should we not then assert, as a corollary,
that no imitation should be judged by the criterion
of pleasure or of untrue opinion, nor indeed should
any kind of equality be so judged? The reason
* i.e. a " likeness " must be " equal " to its original both
in character and size.
' Ifi'ft] bracketed by Cornarius.

»39
PLATO
TO) TOi ^ TO 76 IgOV ICTOV OvBe TO <TUfA,fl€TpOV &V 60/
<Tv/xfM€Tpov o\&)9, aX\a t& aXyÔel TTavrayv fxd-
Xiara, ^Kiara Se oraovv aWo).
KA. Tiavrdiracn /xev ovv.
A0. OvKovv fxovaiKrjv ye irdadv (f>afx€v el-
KaaTiKijv T€ etvai koI fiijxrjTiKijp ;
KA. Tt fxrjv ;
A0. ' H/cicrr' dpa orav Tf<? fiovaiKijv rjBovfj (pf)

Kpiveadai, tovtov diroSeKTeov top \6yov, Koi
^rjTtjTeop ijKiaTa ravTrjv &><? cnrovhaiav, el ri'i
B dpa TTOv Kol yCyvoiTO, dW' eKeivrjv ttjp e')(ôv(Tav

Trjv OfxoioTTjra tw rod koXov fjLi/jLrjfiaTi.
KA. ^
AXr^dearara.
A0. Kat TOWTOt? hr] TOt<; rrjv KaWiariqv (phrji
re ^rjTovai /cal ^lovcrav ^rjTtjTeou, &)? eoiKev, ov)(

r^Tt? rjBela, aXV ^Tt? opdij. /jLL/jLr](Te(o<; yap ^v, O)?
€(pafj,ev, opdoTTji;, el to /j.i/jLr]Oev oaov re Koi olov
rjv diroTeXoiTO.
KA. n C09 7ap 01/ ;
A0. Kal toOto 76 7ra9 av 6/j,o\oyol vepl

/xî"
T^9 fiovaiKrj<;, on trdyra rd irepl avTijv iari

C TTOiijfiaTa fiifiTjaL^; re koX dTreiKaaria. koX tovto
ye /jlwv ovk av ^vixiravres ofxoXoyolev TTOirjTat, re
KoX uKpoaraX koX vtroKpirai
KA. Kal /j,dXa.
A0. Aet Bt) KaG' eKaarov ye, o)? eoiKe, yiyvd)-

(TKeiv ruiv Troirj/xdrcov, orirTore eart, rov fieXXovra
«.v nvTO) jxrj dfxaprrjaeadaL. firj yap yiypaxTKCov
1 r^ rot Schmidt : ry MSS.
140
LAWS, BOOK II
why the equal is equal, or the symmetrical sym-

metrical, is not at all because a man so opines, or is
charmed thereby, but most of all because of truth,

and least of all for any other reason.
ciON. Most certainly.
ATH. We assert, do we not, that all music is
representative and imitative?
CLIN, Of course.
ATH. So whenever a man states that pleasure is
the criterion of music, we shall decisively reject his
statement and we shall regard such music as the
;
least important of all (if indeed any music is im-

portant) and prefer that which possesses similarity
in its imitation of the beautiful.
CLIN. Very true.
ATH. Thus those who are seeking the best sing-
mg and music must seek, as it appears, not that
which is pleasant, but that which is correct and ;
the correctness of imitation consists, as we say, in

the reproduction of the original in its own proper
quantity and quality.
CLIN. Of course.
ATH. And this is
certainly true of music, as
—
everyone would allow, that all its productions are
imitative and representative ^ that much, at least,
;
alike,— would they not?

—
they would all admit, poets, audience, and actors
CLIN. They would.

ATH. Now the man who is to judge a poem^
unerringly must know in each particular case the
exact nature of the poem for if he does not know
;
* Cp. 655 D, above. The music (songs and tunes) of

firamatic compositions is specially alluded to.
^ Or musical composition.
VOL I. t:-
I**'
PLATO
T171' ovcnav, ri irore ôvKerai Koi orov ttotc
eariv etKcov ovrayf;, (t')(o'K^ ye opdorrjTa Trj<;
rrjv
ôv\r](T€(o<; r] koX afiapriav avrov Biayvwaerai.
KA. ^'XôXfj' TTW? S" 01) ;
D A0. 'O Be TO
yiyvcoaKwv ap* dv irore
opdoix; fxr]
TO ye ev Koi ro kukm^; Buvarb^ eh] Siayvcovai ;

\eyco 8' ov Trdvv (ja^(a<i, dW' cahe aa(ê(Trepov
laco^ dv \e')(deiri.
KA. Yloi<i
A0. Etcrt Brj TTOV Kara ttjv oyjnv rjfuv direiKa-

aiai fivplac.
KA. Nat.
A0. Tt ovv ; el rt? koI
tovtoi^ dyvool ev
Toiv fie/ntfirj/jievcov eariv eKaarov
o tc ttotc
TMv (Tco/xdrwv, dp' dv ttotc to ye 6p0(o<; avrcov
elpyaa-fievov yvoirj ; Xeyco Be to TOLovBe, olov tov<;
dpidfjiov^ \tov crco/iaTO? «at] ^ eKaaToyv tcov fiepwv
E Ta? <CTe>* 6eaei<; fj e^^t, oaoi t elal Kal ottoIu
Trap' orrola avTwv Keifieva ttjv irpocrrjKovaav tuîv
dTreiXrj(f)e, Kal ert Brj 'x^pco/jLaTa re Kal (T')(^^fMaTa,
rj TrdvTa TavTa TeTapay/xev(i}<; elpyacTTac. fioiv
BoKel TaiiT dv iroTe Btayvwval Tf<? to Trapd-rrav
dyvowv 6 tL ttotc ecTTi to fiefî/jLTjîevov ^wov ;
KA. Kat 7rco9 ;
A0.Tt 5' ; el yiyvuxTKOifJiev oti to yeypajx-

fievov rj TO 7Te7r\acrfj,evov earTiV dvdpco7ro<;, Kal
Ta fjiepr) rrdvTa tu eavTov kui ^(^payfxaTa d/ia Kal
669 (TXV/^CLTa aTTeikriêv viro Trj<{ Te)(VVt> ^pd ye
dvayKaiov rjBr] tw TavTa yvovTt Kal eKelvo ctol-
/jbQ)<; yiyvcoaKCtv, eiTe koKov eiTC oirrj ttotc eXXnTe after tcij.
142
LAWS, BOOK 11
its essence, —what intention is and what the

its
actual original which
represents,itthen he will —
hardly be able to decide how far it succeeds or fails
in fulfilling its intention.
CLIN. Hardly, to be sure.
ATH. And would a man who does not know what
constitutes correctness be able to decide as to the
goodness or badness of a poem But I am not
.''
making myself quite clear it might be clearer if 1

:
put it in this way

CUN. In what way ?
ATH. As regards objects of sight we have, of

course, thousands of representations.
CLIN. Yes.
ATH. How, then, if in this class of objects a man
were to be ignorant of the nature of each of the
bodies represented, —
could he ever know whether
it is correctly executed ? What I mean is this
whether it preserves the proper dimensions and the
positions of each of the bodily parts, and has caught
their exact number and the proper order in which one
is placed next another, and their colours and shapes
as well,—or whether all these things are wrought in
a confused manner. Do you suppose that anyone
could possibly decide these points if he were totally
ignorant as to what animal was being represented .''
CUN. How could he?

ATH. Well, suppose we should know that the
object painted or moulded is a man, and know that
art has endowed him with all his proper parts,
colours, and shapes, —
is it at once inevitable that
the person who knows this can easilv discern also

whether the work is beautiful, or wherein it is
deficient in beauty ?
'43
PLATO
KA. IldvT€<; fxevrav, ut^ erro^ elirelv, Si êve, to,
KoKa TOiv ^(ooov iyiyvcocTKOfiev.
A&. OpdoraTU Xiyei'i. ap ovv ov nrepX ixd-
arrjv eiKopa koI iv <ypa(îK^ koL iv fiovcriK^ koI
TrdvTrj rov /xeWovra ep(f)pova Kpnrjv ecreadac Set
B Tavra rpia e^^LV, 6 re iari irpoiTOv 'yiyvaxTKeiv,
€7recTa a)? opOdo^, eiretd^ a)<? ev, to rpirov, eipyaarai,
ro)v eiKovoov tjtktovv [pTj/xaai, re kuI pbeKeai koX
^
Tot? pvOpLolsi] ;
KA. "Eot/ce jovv.

Ae. M^ rolvvv dTrelirwiiev \i<yovTe<i to wepl
rrjv fiovaiKTjv 77 '^^âXeirov. eTreiBr) yap vfiveiTai
Trepl avTTjv ra? dX\.a<i eiKova^,
8ia(p€p6vT(o^ rj
evXaêia^ 8t} SeiTai TrXettrT??? iraawv cIkovoov.

dpapTCOv re ydp Ti? fiiyiar dv ^Xdrrroiro, rjdi}
C KUKa (f)i'\.o(f)povovpevo^, 'XâXeircoTaTov re alade-
adai Bid TO T0U9 TroiT/Ta? (pavXoT€pov<; elvai
TroirjTaf: aiircov rwv Moucrciii/. ov ydp dv eKelvai
ye eâp,dproLev iroTe ToaovTOV, Sicne pijfiara
uvSpcov TtoLrjaaaai to a-')(rjp,a yvvaiKOiv kol pAXo^
uTToBovvaL, Kol p,eXo<i iXevdepwv av koX a-')(rjpi,aTa
^vvOelaat, pv6pov<i BovXcov koX dveXevdepcou irpoa-
appoTTeiv, ovS" av pvd/j,ov<i Kal (T')(rjp,a iXev-
depiov VTTodelaaL p,eXo^ r) Xoyov evavTiov diro-
D Bovvai Toi<{ pv6fioi<;' €ti Be Orjpicov <f)Q)vd<; koI
dvd pcoTTcov Kal opydvcov Kal iravra^ y}r6(f)ov<i el<i
TavTO ovK dv 7roT€ ^vvdelev, co? ev tc pipovpLevai.
^ [^nna<Tl . . . ^v6fj.ois] bracketed by England.
* In what follows, the main features censured are in-

congruity, when the words, tunes and gestures of an acted
piece of music are out of harmonj- ; senselessness, when tunes
and gestures are divorced from words ; barbarousTiess, when
144
LAWS, BOOK II
CLIN. If that were so. Stranger, practically all Oi

us would know what animals are beautiful.
ATH. You are quite right. In regard, then, to
—
every representation whether in painting, music
or any other art —
must not the judicious critic pos-
sess these three requisites : first, a knowledge of the
nature of the original ; next, a knowledge of the
correctness of the copy ; and thirdly, a knowledge
of the excellence with which the copy is executed?
CLIN. It would seem so, certainly.
ATH. Let us not hesitate, then, to mention the
point wherein lies the difficulty of music. Just be-
cause it is more talked about than any other form of
representation, it needs more caution than any. The
man who blunders in this art will do himself the
greatest harm, by welcoming base morals and, more-
;
over, his blunder is verj- hard to discern, inasmuch as

our poets are inferior as poets to the Muses them-
selves.^ For the Muses would never blunder so far as
to assign a feminine tune and gesture to verses com-
posed for men, or to fit the rhythms of captives and
slaves to a tune and gestures framed for free men,
or conversely, after constructing the rhythms and
gestures of free men, to assign to the rhythms a
tune or verses of an opposite style. Nor would the
Muses ever combine in a single piece the cries of
beasts and men, the clash of instruments, and noises
of all kinds, by way of representing a single object
the thing represented is paltry or uncouth (such as a duck's

quack) ; virtuosity, when the performer makes a display of
the control he has over his limbs and instruments, like a
mountebank or " contortionist." All these are marks of bad
music from the point of view of the educationist and
statesman, since they are neither "correct" nor morally
elevating.
»4S
PLATO
TTOcrjTal S' avOpcoTTivoi a(f)6Bpa ra TOtavra ifi-
n\eKOVTe<i koI av
crvyKVKwvre^ aXoyox; yiXcoT
irapaaKevdôiev tcov avdpcoirccv oaoa ^ cf)r]alv
'0/3061/9 " Xajêlv oipav t% Tepy}rio<;-'^ ravrd re
yap opcoai iravTa KVKOofieva Kol ei' rt ^ BiaaTraxTtv
oi TToiTjTai pvOpov /lev Kal a-)(rjp,ara fieXov^
')(copi<;, \070u9 yjrLXov'i ek /xirpa Ti6ivT€<;, p,eXoaK6Lv 6 Tt re /SovXerai Kal oto) eoiKe rS)v
dîoXoycov pip,7]p,dT(i)v. dXX inroXaêlv avay-
Kalov OTi TO Toiovrov ye ttoXXtj^ dypoiKia^ pearrov
irdv, OTToaov Td-)ôv<; re Kal d7rTaiaia<; Kal (^wvt)^
6ripi(i)hov<i. rav-
Ttt pev e'xeL rainr) Xoyov ripel<i he ye oux ^ """^
pr) 8el rait Mouaat? rjpMV irpoa-XPV'^â'i tou?

r]8ri TpiaKOVTOvrat Kal tcov irevTr^KOvra Trepav
yeyovoTa'i crKoixovpeBa, aXX.' rt ttotc heX. Tohe
pev ovv eK tovt(ov 6 X6yov yap pvdpoyv Kal
TOiv dppovioiv dvayKalov avTol<i ecrrlv evaLcrdr]r(o<i
Kal yiyvcoaKeLV rj ttco? Tt9
ej(êtv rrjv opdorrjra
yvooaerai tcov peXoov [cu TrpocrrJKev rj pi] irpoarjKe
Tov AcopicrTi Kal rov pvOpov ov 6 7rotr}TT)<; avrw
^
irpoarjyêv, 6pO(o<; rj p,i]] ;
* oaois H. Richards: i<rovs MSS., edd.

146
LAWS, BOOK II
whereas human poets, by their senselessness in mix-

ing such things and jumbling them up together,
would furnish a theme for laughter to all the men
who, in Orpheus' phrase, " have attained the full
flower of joyousness." For they behold all these
things jumbled together, and how, also, the poets
rudely sunder rhythm and gesture from tune,
putting tuneless words into metre, or leaving tune
and rhythm without words, and using the bare sound
of harp or flute, wherein it is almost impossible to
understand what is intended by this wordless rhythm
and harmony, or what noteworthy original it repre-
sents. Such methods, as one ought to realise, are
clownish in the extreme in so far as they exhibit
an excessive craving for speed, mechanical accuracy,
and the imitation of animals' sounds, and conse-
quently employ the pipe and the harp without the
accompaniment of dance and song for the use of ;
either of these instruments by itself is the mark of

the mountebank or the boor. Enough, then, of that
matter now as to ourselves. What we are con-
:
sidering is, not how those of us who are over thirty

years old, or beyond fifty, ought not to make use of
the Muses, but how tliey ought to do so. Our
argument already indicates, I think, this result from
—
our discussion, that all men of over fifty that are
fit to sing ought to have a training that is better
than that of the choric Muse. For they must of

necessity possess knowledge and a quick perception
of rhythms and harmonies else how shall a man
;
know which tunes are correct ?

' ft Ti Badham, Schanz: in MSS.
' <ip^> 1 add, and bracket (pi\ov.
*
l^ . . . fjiii] bracketed by England.
147
PLATO
KA. A77X0V a)9 ov8afjba)<;.
Ae. FeXoto? yap 6 ye ttoXu? 0^X09 ^yovfievo ^ koX âlveiv ev
C pvdfio)yeyovaac BirjvayKaa-fjLevor ort Se Spaxrc
ravra ayvoovvre^ avrcov CKaara, ov crvWoyi-
ôvrai. TO 5e ttov Trpoa-rJKOVTa p,ev eôv Trap yoteXo?
opd(a<i e'xei, firj Tcpocri^KOvra he r}ijiapr'qp,ev(a<i.
KA. ^
AvayKaioTara.
A0. Tt ovv ; 6 firjBe Tt ttot' ex^t yiyvaxTKcov
apa, o TL irep eiTro/xev, el)? 6pd(a? eoi/cev, avevpi(TKop,ev av ra

vvVy on Tol'i (f>hoL<i Tjixtv, ov<i vvv TrapaKoXovfiev
D Kal eKOVTUf Tiva rpoirov dvayKdôp,ev aheiv, u-e^pt
ye ToarovTOv 7re7rai8ev(rOai a^^Bov dvayKolov,
''""^ BvvaTov eivai ^vvuKoXovOelv eKaarov
p^XP''
Tat? Te ^dcrecri tmv pvdpoiv koI Tat? ;;ô/3Sat9 Tat?
Tci)V p^Xcov, iva KaOopavre^ rd'i tc dp/jL0VLa<i koI
TOv<i pv6pov<i eKXeyeadai tg Ta irpoarjKovra oloi
r (oaiv, a rot? tijXikovtoi^ re koI roi,ovTOi<i aSeiv
irpeirov, koX ovtq)<; aBoxrc, Kal aBovre^ avroi Te

r]Bovd<i TO irapaxpVH-^ daiveh ^Bcovrai Kal toi?
vea)TepoL<s r)yep,6ve'i rjOwv XPV^'^^^ d(T7raa-p,ou
E TrpoaijKOvro^ yiyvwvTai. P^XP'' ^^ Tocroinov irat,'
Bevdevre^: uKpiêarepav av iraiBelav rrj'i eirl to
^ av\f Badham, Schanz : aurHv MSS.
I4S
LAWS, BOOK 11
CUN. Obviously he caunot know this at all.
ATH. It is absurd of the general crowd to imagine

that they can fully understand what is harmonious
and rhythmical, or the reverse, when they have
been drilled to sing to the flute or step in time and ;
they fail to comprehend that, in doing each of these

things, they do them in ignorance. But the fact is
that every tune which has its appropriate elements
is correct, but incorrect if the elements are
inappropriate.
CLIN. Undoubtedly.
ATH. What then of the man who does not know
in the least what tiie tune's elements are ? Will
he ever know about any tune, as we said, that it is
carrect .-*
CUN. There is no possible means of his doing so.

ATH. We are now once more, as it appears, dis-
covering the fact that these singers of ours (whom
we are now inviting and compelling, so to say, of
their own free will to sing) must almost necessarily
be trained up to such a point that every one of them
may be able to follow both the steps ^ of the rhythms
and the chords of the tunes, so that, by observing
the harmonies and rhythms, they may be able to
select those of an appropriate kind, which it is
seemly for men of their own age and character to
sing, and may in this wise sing them, and in the
singing may not only enjoy innocent pleasure them-
selves at the moment, but also may serve as leaders
to the younger men in their seemly adoption of
noble manners. If they were trained up to such
a point, their training would be more thorough than
* i.e. dance-steps and gestures " chords " nearly equals
:
"notes," with which the "steps " should " keep time."
149
PLATO
TrXrjdo^ êpovari<; elev fieraKe-êipiajxivoi kol tt}?
irepX Tov<; Troti/ra? avTou<;. to yap rpirov ovhe
fila avdyKT) iroirjT'p eWe koXov eire
yiyvcoaKeiv,
KoKov TO fMi/MTj/xa, TO S" apixovia<i icaX pvdjiov
firj
cêSov avdyKT]' rot? he irdvTa tci. rpia r?}?

671 iK\oyr)<s eveKa tov KaWiaTOV Kal SevTcpov, rj
IxrjheTTOTe Ikuvov iiraiBov ytyveadai vioi^ irpo^

dpeTr)v. Kol oirep 6 X6709 iv dp)(â2<; i/3ouXijdr],
Trjv T(p TOV Aiovvaov %o/3ft) ôijOeiav iinSelât'
KaXa)<; Xeyofiivrjv, et? 8vva/j,iv etprjKe. a-Koircofieda
8r) el TovO^ ovTO) yeyove. 6opv^(iihr)<i p,ev irov
^vWoyo^ 6 ToiovTO^ ef dvdyKT]<i Trpoiovcrrj^ t^?
TTocreo)? iirl fidXXov del ^v/j,âivei yiyvo/xeva,
oirep vTreOifieOa KaT dp)(d<; dvayKalov eJvai
B ylyveadai irepl tmv vvv avyyiyvofjievoiv?-
KA. ÂvdyKT).
A0. Ila? he ye avTO<i avTov KOvôTcpo^; acpeTai
/cal yeyrjOe re Kal TTappr)a-La<i e/xTriirXaTai Kal
dvr]Kov(rTia<; iv tcS tolovto) tcov TreXa?, dp')(o)v 5'
iKavo<i d^tol eavTou re Kal tcov dXXcov yeyovevai.
KA. Tt fir]V ;
A0. OvKovv ecpafiev, oTav yiyvrjTai TavTa,

Kaddirep Tivd aihrjpov, ra? yfrvx^df; tcov ttivovtcov
hiarrvpovi yiyvofieva^ fiaX6aK(t)Tepa<i yiyveaOai
C Kal vecoTepa<;, coaTC evaycoyov^ ^v/xâiveiv tw
Svvafiivcp Kal etnaTafxevco iraiSeveiv re kuI
irXdTTeiv, Kaddirep ot rjtrav viai ; tovtov S'
^ ffvyyiyvojxevwy I yiyvoueyMV MSS. : Kiyofifvatv iiluseb.,

Schanz.
LAWS, BOOK II
that of the majority, or indeed of the poets them-

selves. For although it is almost necessary for a
poet to have a knowledge of harmony and rhythm,
it is not necessary for him to know the third point
also —namely, whether the representation is noble

or ignoble ^ ; but for our older singers a knowledge
of all these three points is necessary, to enable them
to determine what is first, what second in order of
nobility otherwise none of them will ever succeed
;
in attracting the young to virtue by his incantations.

The primary intention of our argument, which was
to demonstrate that our defence of the Dionvsiac
chorus was justifiable, has now been carried out to
the best of our ability. Let us consider if that
is really so. Such a gathering inevitably tends, as
the drinking proceeds, to grow ever more and more
uproarious and in the case of the present day
;
gatherings that is, as we said at the outset, an

inevitable result.
CLIN. Inevitable.
ATH. Everyone is uplifted above his normal self,
and is merry and bubbles over with loquacious
audacity himself, while turning a deaf ear to his
neighbours, and regards himself as competent to
rule both himself and everyone else.
CLIN. To be sure.
ATH. And did we
not say that when this takes
place, the souls of the drinkers turn softer, like iron,
through being heated, and younger too ; whence
they become ductile, just as when they were young,
in the hands of the man who has the skill and
ability to train and mould them. And now, even as
' i.e. the composer, as such, is not concerned with the
moral (or psychological) etfect of the piece.
PLATO
elvat rov avrov uicrTrep Tore, top
Tov TrXdaTTju
djaObv ov vofiov^ elvai Sel avfiiro-
vojJLodeTqv,
TiKOv<i, Swa/xevov; tov eveXiriv Kai 6appa\eov
CKeivov yiyv6/j.evov kuI avaicr^vvTOTepov rov
8eovTO<i, Koi ovK idiXovra rdîv koI to kuto, fj,ipo<;
aiyT]<; kuI Xojov kol Trocreo)? Kol /xov(rr]^ vtto-
p.6V€cv, eOiXeiv TroceiP iravra tovtol^ rdvavTia,
D f^cil elaLovTi T(p /XT] KaXS) Odp'pei, tov kuXXicttov
hiaixa\ov ixevov ^ <^6ôv elairefXTreiv otov(; t elvai

fieTo, BiKr]<;, ov alhoi t€ koX aia^vvrjv \6elov
(f)6ôv] ^ MvofidKu/xev
KA. "Eo-Tt ravra.
Ae. Toi'Twy hk ye twv vo/jlcov elvai vo/j,o(f>v-
XaKa<; koI avvSijfiiovpyov^ avToi<; tol"? d9opvôv0VTa<i TCOV fxrj VT](f)6vTQ)V (TT paTriyOV<i, Q)V
Bt) ;^w/9t? MOj) Stajiid'êaOat heivorepov rj 7roXe/xi,oi<;
elvai /XT) ixercL dp-ôvrwv dOopvfiayv, koX tov av

fxr) hvvdfxevov iOeXeiv TreideadaL T0VT0i<i koI toi<;
E rjyepocTi roi<; tov Aiovvaov, rot? virep e^rjKovTa

eTtj yeyovoaiv, larjv koI fxei^co ttjv ala')(vvr)v
(pipeiv Tj TOV Tot9 Toi) "A.peo'i direidovvra ap-)(pvcnv.
KA. 'Opdco^.
A0. OvKovv et ye et-q ToiavT-r] /xev fiedq,
TOiavTrj 8e iraihid, ficov ovk wêXT/êyre? av ol
TOiovToi crvfiirorai Kal fidXXov (piXoi rj irpoTepov
dTraXXdTTOLVTO dXXrfXwv, dXX ov)^ (acnrep ra
vvv e')(6poi, KaTCL vo/xou^ 8r] ^ irdaav ttjv ^vvovatav
672 ^vyyevofxevot Kal dKoXov9t')a-avTe<; oirore d(f)r}yoivTO
01 v^(f)ovr€<; rot? /xr] vr)(f)0vcnv ;
KA. Ôpda)<;, ei ye Brj etij TOcavTrj o'lav vvv

XAyei<i.
^ Siafiaxovj.i(vov H. Richards : SMuax^h^fov MSS.
152
LAWS, BOOK II
then, the man who

is to mould them is the good
legislator he must lay down banqueting laws, able

;
to control that banqueter who becomes confident

and bold and unduly shameless, and unwilling to
submit to the proper limits of silence and speech,
of drinking and of music, making him consent to do
in all ways the opposite, —
laws able also, with the
aid of justice, to fight against the entrance of such
ignoble audacity, by bringing in that most noble
fear which we have named •' modesty " and " shame."
CLIN. That is so.
ATH. And as law -wardens of these laws and co-

operators therewith, there must be sober and sedate
men to act as commanders over the un-sober; for to
fight drunkenness without these would be a more
formidable task than to fight enemies without sedate
leaders. Any man who refuses willingly to obey
these men and the officers of Dionysus (who
are over
sixty years of age) shall incur as mucli disgrace as
the man who disobeys the officers of Ares, a!id even
more.
CLIN. Quite right.
ATH. If such was the character of the drinking
and of the recreation, would not such fellow-drinkers
be the better for it, and part from one another
better friends than before, instead of enemies, as
now.-* For they would be guided by laws in all
their intercourse, and would listen to the directions
given to the un-sober by the sober.
CLIN. True, if it really were of the character you
describe.
' [ef'iov (f)o'8ov] bracketed by Badham, Schanz.

« S^ England : 5« MSS.
«53
PLATO
Ae. M^
roivvv eKelvo 7' en T179 rov ^lovvaov
Scoped^ ylriycofiev aTrXcof, «09 eVrt kukt) koX el<i
TToXiv ovK aîa 'rrapahe-)(eadai. koI yap en
TrXctft) Tf9 av eireêkdot Xeycov, eirel Koi to
fieyicrrov ayadov o Soypelrai Xeyeiv /xev 6kvo<;
et9 TO 1/9 iroXkoiKi 8ia to KaKco<; tov^ dvdpci)7rov]fir] viroppel 7r<u9,
a)9 6 ^€09 0UT09 VTTo T^9 /MT]T pvido-
prjdri Tri<i yfrvxv^ t^v yvcofirjv, Bio Ta9 re âK')(eia<;
Kol Trdaav tyjv /xavifcrjv ifi^dWei )(ôpelav Tifio)-
povpevo<i' bdev kol tov olvov eirl tovt ovto
Se8(i)pr)Tai. iyo) Se to, /xev ToiavTa toi<; dcrcpaXef
riyovp,evoL y^povw ev m /xt^ttco KefCTrjTat ttjv oiKeiav
^p6vr](Tiv, TTCLV ixaiveTai re Koi ôa dTciKTco^, /cai
oTav aKTacvcocrrj eavTO Ta-^^^LCTTa, aTUKTco^ av
TTTjSa. dva/jLvrjaOc^/xev 8e oti p,ovai,Kri<i re Ka\
yvfJLva(7TiKrj<i e<papbev dp)(^d<; TavTa^ elvai.
KA. Me/MVi]/jie6a- tl S' ov ;
A0. OvKOvv Kal

OTI TT]v pud fiov T6 Koi dpfiovia^
D atadrjcnv dv0 p(i)voi<i rjfilv evSeBcoKevat ttjv
Tol<i
"'PXh^ Tai;T?7i/ €(f)afM€v, ATToXXcova 8e Kal Moytra?

^
Kal Ai6vv(rov <rvvacTi,ov<; ^ yey ovevai ;
^ ffwanlovs '. Ofwv aWlovs MSS. : rovrwv alriovs Cornarius.
^ i.e. the "frenzied " motion ascribed to Dionysus is, rather
154
LAWS, BOOK II
ATH. Then we must no longer, without qualifica-

tion, bring that old charge against the gift of
Dionysus, that it is bad and unworthy of admittance
into a State. Indeed, one might enlarge consider-
ably on this subject for the greatest benefit that
;
gift confers is one which one hesitates to declare to

the multitude, since, when declared, it is misconceived
and misunderstood.
CLIN. What is that ?
ATH. There is a secret stream of stoiy and report
to the effect that the god Dionysus was robbed of
his soul's judgment by his stepmother Hera, and
that in vengeance therefor he brought in Bacchic
rites and all the frenzied choristry, and with the
same aim bestowed also the gift of wine. These
matters, however, I leave to those who think it safe
to say them about deities ^ ; but this much I know,
that no creature is ever born in possession of that
reason, or that amount of reason, which properly
belongs to it when fully developed consequently,
;
every creature, during the period when it is still

lacking in its proper intelligence, continues all in a
frenzy, crying out wildly, and, as soon as it can get
on its feet, leaping wildly. Let us remember how
we said that in this we have the origin of music and
gymnastic.^
CLIN. We remember that, of course.
ATH. Do we not also remember how we said that
from this origin there was implanted in us men the
sense of rhythm and harmony, and that the joint
authors thereof were Apollo and the Muses and the
god Dionysus ?
a natural instinct exhibited in all child-life, and D. helps
to reduce it to rhythm. * Cp. 653 1) flF.
«55
PLATO
KA. lift)? fyap ov ;
A0. Kat Kol TOP oivov ye, &)? eoiKcv, 6 twv

8ri
aWojv X0709 "va fiavSyixev îjalv iir^ rtfiwpia
rf} tS)v avdpcoTTMV SeSoadar 6 Se vvv \ey6fi€vo<;
v(fi r]ixoyv (papfxaKov eVt rovvavriov ^rjaXv alhov<i
fiev ^v')(rj<i KTi](Teco<i evexa SeSoadai, aco/xuTOt 8e

vyi€La<i re koI icrXvo<;.
KA. KaXXicrra, c5 îue, top \6yov UTrefivr]-
fi6vevKa<i.
E A0. Kat T(i fxev Brj tt}? ôpeia'i i^plaea hia-
TreTrepdvOco' to, B' rjfiLO-ea, o7ro)<? av eri hoKrj,
Trepavov/xev rj koI idaofxev ;
KA. Uoia 8r} \ey€i<;, eKarepa 8iaip(ov ;

Kat 7r<M9
A0. "0\rj p,ev TTOV ')(ôpela 6\r} Traihevcri^ r)v
rjiuv, TOVTOV 8' av to fiev pvO/xoC re kuI dp/j-ovlai
TO Kara rrjv (f)covr]v.
KA. Nat.
A0. To 8e ye Kara rrjv rov o-tw/taTO? klvtjctiv
pvdfiov p.ev Koivov TTJ tt}? (po)vi]s €tTê Kivrjaei,
^^(riiMa he iSiov. e'/cet Be fieXo^ rj rrj^ (poi}<rj<i
673 Ki,vr)ai<;.
KA. ^
A\r]0€(TTaTa.
A0. Ta pev roivvv t?)? <f)(ovrj<; pê^pi Trj<; 'yjrvxv'i
7rpo9 dp€TT]v TratSeia?,^ ovk olS" ovTiva rpoirov,

u)Vop-daap,ev pLOvaLKrjV-
KA. ÔpdSi^ p,ev ovv.
A0. Ta ê ye rov acopaTO<;, a iraiôvrcov
op')(r)(TLV etiropev, edv pe^pt t^^ tov a-(opaTO<;
aperr]^ rj roiavrr) KiV)]ai<i yiyvrjTai, rrjv evrexvov
dyajy^v eVt to toiovtov avrov yvpLvaariKr^v
TtpoaeincjDpLev.
^ dperriv iraiSeias Ritt-er : dpeTrjs naiSelav MSS.
156
LAWS, BOOK II
CLIN. Certainly we remember.

ATH. Moreover, as to wine, the account given by
other people apparently is that it was bestowed on
us men as a punishment, to make us mad ; but our
own account, on the contrary, declares that it is a
medicine given for the purpose of securing modesty
of soul and health and strength of body.
CLIN. You have recalled our account admirably,
Stranger.
ATH. We may say, then, that the one half of the
subject of choristry has now been disposed of. Shall
we proceed at once to deal with the other half in
whatever way seems best, or shall we leave it alone .^
CLIN. What halves do you mean ? How are you

dividing the subject ?
ATH. In our view, choristry as a whole is identical
with education as a whole and the part of this
;
concerned with the voice consists of rhythms and

harmonies.
CLIN. Yes.
ATH. And the part concerned with bodily motion
possesses, in common with vocal motion, rhythm ;
besides which it possesses gesture as its own peculiar
attribute, just as tune is the peculiar attribute of
vocal motion.
CLIN. Very true.
ATH. Now the vocal actions which pertain to the
training of the soul in excellence we ventured
somehow to name "music."
CLIN. And rightly so.
ATH. As regards the bodily actions which we
called playful dancing, —if such action attains to
bodily excellence, we may term the technical
guidance of the body to this end " gymnastic."
157
PLATO
B KA. Ôpdorara.
A0. To Se tt}? fjLOvatKTJ^;, o vvv hr) cr-)(ehov
rjîav 8i€\r]\v6€vat Trj<; 'Xppelaî eiTro/xev xal

BiaTTeirepdvOai^ koX vvv ovtco<{ elptjcrdco' to Be
7]fii(Tv Xeyco/mev, rj Trw? Kal tt^ 'Troirjriov ;
KA. n dptare, Kpr]<rl Kal AaKeBai/xoviocf;

8ia\.€y6fX€vo<;, fiovcnKr]<i Tripi SieXdovrcDV rjfiojv,
iWeiTTovTtov Be yvpvaariKr]<;, ri irore o'Ui aoi

TTorepov r}fjuSiv airoKpiveladat, Trpo? ravTijv ttjv
epconjcriv ;
A0. ÂTTOKeKpio-Oai 676)7' dv ae (palrjv cr')(êB6v
C ravr^ epofievov (Ta(f)co^, Kal fiavOdvo} clx? ipQ}Tr)cn<;
ovcra avrrj ra vvr aTTOKpiaL^; t' eariv, 0)9 elirov

Kal eri irpocnaî,^ Bcarrepdvaa-dai to, irepl
yvfiva<rriK7J<;.
KA. "Apiad^ VTreXa^€<; re Kal ovrco Br) iroUi.
A0. UoLTjTeov- ovBe yap irdvv '^âXeirov eariv
elirelv vfilv ye diJ,(f)OT€poi^ yvcopifxa. ttoXv yap
ev TavTT) rfi Texvjf irXeov e/XTretpia^ rj ev eKeivrj
fiere-xêre.
KA. Xx^ôv dXr]6rj Xey€i<i.

A0. OvKOVv av TavTr]<i dpyrj psv tt}? TraiBidi;
D TO Kara <f)vaiv irrjBdv eWiadai Trdv â)ov, to 8

dvdpdiTTLVov, (w? €(f)a/jL€v, aiaOrjcriv Xaôv rod
pvdfMOV iyevvrjae re opxv'^''^ ''f^* ereKe, rov Be
p,eXov^ vTrofj.ifjbvr]a-KOVTO<; Kal eyelpovTO<i rbv pvOfiov,
KoivoodevT dXX7]XoL<i xop^ô-v i^cll iraiBidv eTeKcrrjv.
KA. ^
KXrideaTaTa.
158
LAWS, BOOK II
CMN. Quite rightly.

ATH. As which was referred to when
to music,
we said a moment ago
that the one half of choristry
had been described and disposed of, let us say the —
same of it now ; but as to the other half, are we to
speak about it, or what are we to do ?
CLIN. My good sir, you are conversing with
Cretans and Lacedaemonians, and we have discussed
the subject of music what reply, then, to your
;
question do you suppose that either of us will make,

when the subject left still untouched is gymnastic ?
ATH. You have given me a pretty clear answer,
I should say, in putting this question although it is
;
a question, I understand it to be also (as 1 say) an

—
answer or rather, an actual injunction to give a full
account of gymnastic.
CLIN. You have grasped my meaning excellently :
please do so.
ATH. Do it I must ; and indeed it is no very hard
task to speak of things well known to you both.
For you are far better acquainted with this art than
with the other.
CLIN. That is about true.
ATM. The origin of the play^ we are speaking of
is to be found in the habitual tendency of every
living creature to leap and the human creature, by
;
acquiring, as we said, a sense of rhythm, generated

and brought forth dancing ; and since the rhythm
is suggested and awakened by the tune, the union
of these two brought forth choristry and play.
CLIN. Very true.
* i.e. playful motion, or dancing, aa contrasted with

"music "( or
'• harmony")
which springs from the tendency
to cry out.
PLATO
A0. Kat TO fiev, (f)a/j,iv, ^St] 8i€\r)\v6a/J,€v
avrov, TO Sk ireipacro/jLeda e(p€^T}<i SieXdelv.
KA. Yldvv fl€P ovv.
A0. Etti 70LVVV T7J Trj
iTTiTrjSevfiaTi tw vvv elprj/xevo) xprjaejat fiera
voficov Kal Ta^6ft)<>, cd^ tov acocppovelv evexa
fieXirrj ^ )(^pcofievr}, Kal tcop dWtop tjSovcov pLt]
d<f)eêTai ooaavTco^; Kal Kara top avrop Xojov,
TOV Kpareiv aincop epeKa pbriyâvwp-epT), tovtov
fi€P top TpoTTOP dirnai TOVTOi<i )(pr)cTTeoP' el 3'
ft)? Traihia t€, kqI eêarai tw ôvXcfxepo), Kal
674 OTaf ôvXr)Tac, Kal fie6^ wp dp ôvXrjTai, ttlpcip
/j,€T eTTLTrjSevfiaTCDP wpTipaypovP dXXwp, ovk dp
TiOeifiTjp TavT7)p TTjp ylrrj<pop, o)? Bel iroTe fiedrj
'y^pijaOat TuvTijp ttjp ttoXip rj tovtop top dpSpa,
dXX^ eTi fidXXop Trj<; KprjTcop Kol AaKcSai/jLOPicop
^peta? irpoaOelfirjp dp tw twv Kap')(r]8oPL(op po/xo),
IxrjheTTOTe fi,T]8epa cttI CTpaTOTreBov •yevecrdat tov-
tov TOV 7rce>/AaT09, dXX' vhpoiTO(rlai<; ^vyylypeadai
TOVTOP TOP )(p6pop dirapra, Kal Kara ttoXip prjTe
ZovXop fi^T€ SovXrjp yeveadai firjêTrore, p.rjSe
B dp')(^0PTa<i TOVTOP TOP ipiavTov op dp dp^wai, p,r]K
av KVêpprjTa^ p,r]Se hiKa(TTa<i ipepyovi 0PTa<i
otpov yevecrOai to irapdrrap, firjS' oo"Tt9 ôvXev-
aopepo'i eh ôvXrjp dîap Tipd Xoyov avpepx^Tai,
fit]8e ye p.e9' rjp,epap p.'qheva to Trapdirap, el firj
a(i)paaKta<; rj poacop epeKa, p-rjS' av pvKTcop, OTap
* fxe\eTTj Euseb., Schanz: fieXtrT^s MSS.

i6o
LAWS, BOOK II
ATH. Of choristry we have already discussed the

one part, and we shall next endeavour to discuss the
other part.
CLtN. By all means.
ATH.But, if you both agree, let us first put the
finishing stroke to our discourse on the use of drink.
CLIN. What, or what kind of, finish do you mean ?
ATH. If a State shall make

use of the institution
now mentioned in a lawful and orderly manner, re-
garding it in a serious light and practising it with a
view to temperance, and if in like manner and with
a like object, aiming at the mastery of them, it shall
allow indulgence in all other pleasures, then they —
must all be made use of in the manner described.
But if, on the other hand, this institution is regarded
in the light of play, and if anyone that likes is to be
allowed to drink whenever he likes and with any
companions he likes, and that in conjunction with
all sorts of other institutions, —
then I would refuse
to vote for allowing such a State or such an individual
ever to indulge in drink, and I would go even
beyond the practice of the Cretans and Lacedaemon-
ians ^ and to the Carthaginian law, which ordains that
;
no soldier on the march should ever taste of this potion,

but confine himself for the whole of the time to water-
drinking only, 1 would add this, that in the city
also no bondsman or bondsmaid should ever taste of
it; and that magistrates during their year of office,
and pilots and judges while on duty, should taste
no wine at all nor should any councillor, while
;
attending any impoi-tant council nor should anyone ;
whatever taste of it at all, except for reasons of

bodily training or health, in the day-time nor ;
» Cp. Bk. i. 637a, b.

i6i
PLATO
iinvofi Tt9 TratSa? iroLelcrdai avrjp rj koX 'yvvrj.
kdi aWa oe Trd/xTToWa av rt? Xeyoi, ev ol<; rot?
vovv T6 Kal vofiov exovaiv opdov ov Troreo^ oivo^'
C &<TTe Kara top \6yov tovtov ov8* a/j,7re\covcov ^
av TToWofv 8eoi ouS' •^rivi iroXei, roKra Se rd
r aWa av eiij 'yea>py7]fiaTa Kal irdaa rj hiana,
Kai or] rd ye irepi olvov crêhov aTrdvrcov ifi/ji€Tp6-
Tara Kal oXiyLcrra yCyvoir av. ovto<;, w îvoi,
r/filv, el ^vvBoKec, KoXo(fic6v eVt t&) irepl oXvov
Xoycp prjdevTL elpijcrOo).
KA. Ka.X&)9, Kal ^vvBoKel.
' afi-KfKwvwv £useb, : afiirtKuv MSS.
169
LAWS, BOOK II
—
should anyone do so by night be he man or woman
— when proposing to procreate children. Many
other occasions, also, might be mentioned when wine
should not be drunk by men who are swayed by right
reason and law. Hence, according to this argument,
there would be no need for any State to have a large
number of vineyards ; and while all the other agri-
cultural products, and all the foodstuffs, would be
controlled, the production of wine especially would
be kept within the smallest and most modest di-
mensions. Let this, then. Strangers, if you agree,
be the finishing stroke which we put to our discourse
concerning wine.
CLIN. Very good ; we quite agree.
163
676 Ae. TavTa fiev ovv Bjj ravrrj' TToXcTeia^ 8'
ap')(r]v TLva irore jeyouevat ;

(f)(o/j,ei^ fiwv ovk
ivdevSe Ti<i av avTTjv pacnd re koI KdWiara
KaTihoL ;
KA. Ilodev ;
A0. "OOev irep xal rrjv tcov rrroXecov eiriSoa-iv

€t<fdperrjv fxeraâivovacop * ap,a koI KaKiav itcd-
(TT0T6 Oeareov.
KA. Ae7et9 Be irodev ;
A0. OlfMUL fiev aTTO ')(^p6vov firjKovn; re xal

B direipia^ koI tmv /xeraôXayu iv Ta> toiootq).
KA. lift)? Xeyeif; ;
A0. îpe, rt0' ov TToXei? t' elal kuI dvOpcoirot

TToXiTevopievoL, BoKei<; dv irore KaravofjcaL 'x^povov
Tr\7]do^ ocrov yeyovev ;
KA. OvKOvv paBiov ye ovBa/jLcHx;.

A0. To Be ye, el)? dnXerov ri Kal dfirf^^âvov dv
eiT],
KA. Tidvv fiev ovv rovTO ye.

A0. Mw/' OVV OV fivplai fiev eVt fivp[ai<; r}fuv
yeyovaai iroK.ei'i ev rovrw ro) ')(^p6v(i>, Kara tov
avrov Be rov TrXijdovq \6yov ovk eXdrrov<; €(pdap-
C fievac TreTToXirevfievai S' av irdcra^; TroXixeta?
,'
ttoXXAkci; eKacTTaxov ; Kal Tore fiev e^ eXarrovtov

rore Be e« fietôvcov eXdrrov<i, koI êlpov;
fieiôv<i,
eK êXriovcov yeyovaai Kal êXrlovi eK yeipovoiv ;
' Utrafiaivovauv Boeckh : fitrafialvguauv MSS.
164
BOOK III
ATH. So much for that, then !Now, what are

we to say about the origin of government ? Would
not the best and easiest way of discerning it be from
this standpoint ?
CLIN. What standpoint ?
ATH. That from which one should always observe
the progress of States as they move towards either
goodness or badness.
CLIN. What point is that?
ATH. The observation, as I suppose, of an in-
finitely long period of time and of the variations
therein occurring.
CLIN. Explain your meaning.
ATH. Tell me now do you think you could ever
:
ascertain the space of time that has passed since

cities came into existence and men lived under civic
rule?
CLIN. Certainly it would be no easy task.
ATH. But you can easily see that it is vast and
immeasurable ?
CLIN. That I most certainly can do.

ATH. During this time, have not thousands upon
thousands of States come into existence, and, on a
similar computation, just as many perished ? And
have they not each case exhibited all kinds of
in
constitutions over and over again ? And have they
not changed at one time from small to great, at
another from great to small, and clianged also from
good to bad and from bad to good ?
165
PLATO
KA. 'AvayKalov.
Ae. TavTT]<; 8r} iriptXd^w/xev, el hvvaifieda,
rrj<; fieTaôXijt; rrjv alrtav Td')(a yap av tcrfof
heiêuv rj/xiv Trjv irpuyrrjv roiv TroXtreicop yiveaiv
Koi fierdâaiv.
KA. Ey \eyei<;, koX rrpodv/j,ela6ai Set ae fiev o
hiavoel irepl avrcov diro<f>acv6fievov, ^fid'i Be
^vveiTOixevovi.
677 A0. Ap ovv vfilv 01 iraXaioX Xoyot dXtjOeiav
e)(êivTivd hoKOvcnv ;
KA. Woloi 8i]
A0. To 7roXXa6opd^ yeyovevat,
KaTa/cXva-fMoif re koI voaoi^ koI dXXoi^ jroXXoi'i,
ev ^pay^v tl tmv dvdpcoTrcov Xelirecrdai yevo<;.
OLepe hrj, vorjacofiev fxiav tS)v itoXXS>v
Taxnt-jv TTjv TO) KaraKXvcrpo) irore yevo/j,ev7}v.
KA. To TTolov Ti irepl avri)^ SiavotjOevTe'; ;
B A0. n? ol Tore '7repi(f>uy6vTe<; 7r]v (f)dopdv o-ê-
8ou opeioi Tive<i av eiev vofMrj<;, ev Kopv<âl<i ttov
afiiKpd ^(OTTvpa rov rcov dv^pcoircov hiaaeacocr-
fxeva yevov^.
KA. ^riXov.
A0. Kat hr) Tovf TOLovTovi ye avdyxr) ttov tmv
dXXcov direipov^ eivai re')(yS)v koI tcov ev To2<i
dareai tt/oo? dXX^Xov<i firj-âvSiv ec<i re irXeoveîa^
Kai <piXoveiKLa<i, Kai oiroa^ dXXa KaKOvpyrjiiara
Trpo? dXXrjXov<; eirivoovaiv.
KA. Et«o9 yovv.
C A0. @(o/j,ev Srj ra? ev toI<; TreStot? TroXet? kuI
1 Deucalion's Flood : cp. Polit. 270 C.

1 66
LAWS, BOOK III
CLIN. Necessarily.
ATH. Of this process of cliange let us discover, if
we can, the cause for this, perhaps, would show us
;
what is the primary origin of constitutions, as well

as their transformation.
CLIN. You are right ; and we must all exert our-
—
selves, you to expound your view about them, and
we to keep pace with you.
ATH. Do you consider that there is any truth in
the ancient tales ?
CLIN. What tales ?
ATH. That the world of men has often been
destroyed by floods, plagues, and many other things,
in such a way that only a small portion of the human
race has survived.
CLIN. Everyone would regard such accounts as
perfectly credible.
ATH. Come now, let us picture to ourselves one
of the many catastrophes, — namely, that which
occurred orrte upon a time through the Deluge.^
CLIN. And what are we to imagine about it ?
ATH. That the men who then escaped destruction
must have been mostly herdsmen of the hills, scanty
embers of the human race preserved somewhere on
the mountain-tops.
CLIN. Evidently.
ATH. Moreover, men of this kind must necessarily
have been unskilled in the arts generally, and
especially in such contrivances as men use against
one another in cities for purposes of greed and
rivalry and all the other villainies which they devise
one against another.
CLIN. It is certainly probable.
ATH. Shall we assume that the cities situated in the
167
PLATO
TTyoo? OaXuTTTj KaToiKovaa<i aphrjv iv tc3 totc
^poz/ft) 8ia(f)deLpecr$ai ;
KA. Soi/iiev.
A0. OvKovv opyavd re Trdvra d-TroWvadai, Koi
et Ti Texvr]<; rjv iôfxevov aiTovSaifO'i evp-qfievov rj
7ro\iriKTJ<{ koi (To^la<; rtvo? krepa<i, irdvra eppeiv

rj
TavTa iv raJ Tore '^povw ^rjaofiev ; tto)^ ^ yap dv,

0} apiare, et ye e/xeve rdSe ovtw rov irdvra )(^p6vov
to? viiv BiaKCKoafirjTai, Kaivov dvevpicrKero Trore

Kal OTiovv ;
D KA. <'H ovv> on fikv yap fivpiaKfi
Tovro,^
fivpLa err) SieXdvOavev dpa rov<i Tore, ')(i\ia B'
d(f 01) yiyovev r] BU Toaavra err] rd /nev AatSaXiw
Karacâvi) {êyove^,^ rd Be 'Opêt, rd Be TlaXa-
fiijBei, ra Be rrepl /j,ovaiKr)v îapava xal 'OXu/iTTft),
Trept \vpav Be Âfxîovi, rd 8' dWa dWoi<i
rrdfiTToWa, co? ctto? eliTclv ')(6e<i Ka\ rrpcorjv ye-
yovora ;
Ae. 'Ap' oiad\ Q) KXeivia, rov îXov on

irapeXiTTe^, rov drexâx; %ê9 yevofxevov ;
KA. Mftij^ (f)pd^€i^ 'ETTi/jLevLBijv ;
A0. Nai rovrov iroXv yap vpuv VTrepeTrtjBrjae

Tw /jLr))âvi]fjLan rov<; ^v/j,7ravra<i, w (f)iXe, o Xoym
fiev 'H(t[oBo<; ep.avrevero irdXai, raJ S' epyu) eKelvo I add : Schanz reads ravr' oH n, Hermann
rovTo oUi : Zur. omits tovto.
* [yeyovf'i bracketed by Ast, Schanz.
1 Cp. 642 D.
i68
LAWS, BOOK III
plains and near the sea were totally destroyed at the

time ?
CLIN. Let us assume it.
ATH, And shall we say that all implements were

lost, and that everything the way of important
in
arts or inventions that they may have had,
whether concerned with politics or other sciences,
perished at that time ? For, supposing that things
had remained all that time ordered just as they are
now, how, my good sir, could anything new have
ever been invented ?
CLIN. Do you mean that these things were un-
known to the men of those days for thousands upon
thousands of years, and that one or two thousand
years ago some of them were revealed to Daedalus,
some to Orpheus, some to Palamedes, musical arts
to Marsyas and Olympus, lyric to Amphion, and, in
short, a vast number of others to other persons all —
dating, so to say, from yesterday or the day before ?
ATH. Are you aware, Clinias, that you have left
out your friend who was literally a man of yesterday ?
CLIN. Is it Epimenides^ you mean.''
ATH. Yes, I mean him. For he far outstripped
everybody you had, my friend, by that invention of
his of which he was the actual producer, as you
Cretans say, although Hesiod had divined it and "^
spoken of it long before.

CLIN. We do say so.
' Op. D. 40 f
in]Xiot, oiidf Xaaaiv oa<f vXiov îxitrv ircunds,

ovS' Ztrov (V ô\ax]7 t« (coJ ka<poH\(p fi4y^ ovttap.
Hesiod's allusion to the "great virtue residing in mallow
and asphodel '"
is supposed to have suggested to Epimenides
his " invention" of a herbal concoction, or ''elixir of life.'"
169
PLATO
A9. OvKovv ovTQ) 8r) Xiycofiev e'Xeiv Tore, ore
eyevero rj (f)6opd, ra Trepl toi)? avO pcoirovi •jrpd'y-
fiara, jjuvplav ptev riva ôêpav eprjpbiav, yr}^ B'
d(f)dovov ttXtjOo^ TrdfiTToXv, ^cocov 8k roiv dWwv

eppovTwv BovkoXl arra, KaX et rt ttov alywv
ervy^âve yevo^, cnrdvia koI Tuvra
TreptXeicfiOev
078 vifiovaiv elvai ^fjv to ê ^ Kar dp')(^d<i.
KA, Tt p.i]v ;
A0. TloXeco^ 8e koI iroXiTeia'i irept, koI vofio-
Oeaua^, cjv vvv o Xoyo^ rjpuv irapearrjKeu, dp" cb?

eTTO? elirelv ol6p.e6a koI p,v7]p,r]v elvai to irapdirav ;
KA. OySa/iw?.
OvKovv e^ eKeCvcov toov 8iaK€i/j,ev(ov ovtco
A0.
rd vvv yeyovev rjplv ^vpuiravra, iroXei*; re koX
TToXiTeiai Kol rexvai Kal v6p,oi KaX ttoXXt) /jlcv
irovripia, ttoXXtj 8e Kal dperri ;

KA. n&)9 Xeyei^
B A0. 'Ap' olopeda, & davpidcne, tou? ToTe direi-
pov<i 6vTa<i TToXXcbv p.ev kuXwv tcov Kara rd dart},
TToXXoiv he KaX tcov ivavrlayv, reXeov^ tt/jo? dpcTrjv
rj KaX KaKiav yeyovevai
irpo'i
KA. KaX&)9 et7re9, KaX piavddvo/xev o Xey€i,<;.
Ae. OvKovv 7rpo'iovTo<i /xev rov )(^povou, irXrj-
0vovTo<; 8' r^jjiwv rov y€vov<i, et? iravra rd vvv KaOe-
(TTTjKOTa TT poeXrfXvde irdvra ;
KA. ÔpOorara.
A0. OvK eâi(f)vr]<; ye, co? cIko^, Kaid (rpuKpov
Be ev irap.TToXXw rivX ')(^p6va).
C KA. Kat fxdXa Trpeirei rovd* ovtw<;.

A0. 'Ek yap rSiv vyjrijXcov et? rd ireBia Kara-
BaCveiv, olp.ai, irdai (f>6ô^ evavXo<i iyeyovei.
* t6 yf : tJt« MSS. (rh England).
170
LAWS, BOOK III
ATH. Shall we, then, state that, at the time when

the destruction took place, human affairs were in
this position :there was fearful and widespread
desolation over a vast tract of land most of the
;
animals were destroyed, and the few herds of oxen

and flocks of goats that happened to survive afforded
at the first but scanty sustenance to their herdsmen?
CLIN. Yes.
ATH. And as to the matters with which our
present discourse is concerned —
States and state-
craft and legislation, —
do we think they could have
retained any memory whatsoever, broadly S{>eaking,
of such matters r
CLIN. By no means.
ATH. So from those men, in that situation, there
has sprung the whole of our present order States —
and constitutions, arts and laws, with a great amount
both of evil and of good ?
CLIN. How do you mean ?
ATH. Do we imagine, my good Sir, that the men
of that age, who were unversed in the ways of city
life — many of them noble, many ignoble, were —
perfect either in virtue or in vice ?
CUN. Well said ! We grasp your meaning.

ATH. As time went on and our race multiplied,
all things advanced —
did they not —
to the condition
.''
which now exists.

CLIN. Very true.
ATH. But, in all probability, they advanced, not
allat once, but by small degrees, during an immense
space of time.
CUN. Yes, that is most likely.
ATH. For they all, I fancy, felt as it were stil!
ringing in their ears a dread of going down from the
highlands to the plains.
171
PLATO
KA. n<w9 8'ov ;
A0. 'A/)' OVK a<rfi€voi fiev €avTOv<; ewpwv Bi
oXiyoTijra ev TOt<? rov -x^povov,
frepi^ ^ eKelvov
<Ta> ^ TTopela Si, war eV aXXT/Xou? Tore
TTopeveaOai Kara yfjv tj Kara ddXarrav, avv rat?
re')(yai<; &)<> eTro? elirelv irdvra aêSov aTroXcoXet
^v/x/xLO-yeiv ovv dWrjXoiî ovk rjv, ol/iiai, acfioSpa
D Svvarov trtSr/po? <yap Kal 'xâXKo^ Kal rrravra ra
fieraWela (TvyK€')^v/j,€va r^^dvKno, coare diropia
irdaa ^v tov dvaKaOaipeadai to, roiavra, SpvoTO-
fi[a<i re elôv airdviv. el ydp rrov rt Kal rrepi-
yeyovo<i rjv opyavov ev opeat, ravra p,ev ra^v

Kararpiîvra ri(f)dviaro, aWa B ovk e/ieWe yevrj-
aeadai rrpXv irdXiv r) rwv /j,€raXXeci)v dîKotro
et9 dvdpco7rov<; re-^vt].
KA. n&)? ydp dv ;
Ae. Teveal'i Stj iroa-ai'i varepov ol6p,eda rov6'
ovra> yeyovevai
E KA. l^rjXov on ira/xTroXXai^ ricriv.
A0.OvKovv Kal re')(yai ocrairrep crihrjpov heov-
rai Kal x^Xkov Kal rwv roiovrwv dnrdyroiv, rov
avrov xpdvov Kal en rrXeiova rj(j)avi(r/j,evat- dv elev
ev rm rore ;
KA. Tt /x'^v
Ae.Kai roivvv ard(Ti<; dfia koI TroXefic;

diToX(oXei Kara rov rore XP'^^°^ rroXXaxy-
KA. n<M<> ;
Ae. Tlpwrov pblv rjydrroiv Kal e(f)tXocf}pot>ovvro
dXXijXovf; Si" iprjfxiav, eireira ov rrepLp.d')(7]ro'; rjv
679 avrol-i]. vop,fj<; ydp ovk rjv crirdvL^, el p.'q
rial Kar^ dp')(d<; X(Tw<i, fj

hrj ro rrXelcrrov Sie^rov ev
^ irt'pij : T«pl MSS., edd. * <Ta> added by Schanz.
17a
LAWS, BOOK III
CLIN. Of course.
ATH. And
because tliere were so few of them
round about in those days, were they not delighted
to see one another, but for the fact that means of
transport, whereby they might visit one another by
sea or land, had practically all perished along with
the arts? Hence intercourse, I imagine, was not
very easy. For iron and bronze and all the metals
in the mines had been flooded and had disappeared
so that it was extremely difficult to extract fresh
metal and there was a dearth, in consequence, of
;
felled timber. For even if there happened to be

some few tools still left somewhere on the mountains,
these were soon worn out, and they could not be
replaced by others until men had rediscovered the
art of metal-working.
CUN. They could not.
ATH. Now, how many generations, do we suppose,
had passed before this took place?
CUN. A great many, evidently.
And during all this period, or even longer,
ATH.
allthe arts that require iron and bronze and all such
metals must have remained in abeyance ?
CUN. Of course.
.
ATM. Moreover, civil strife and war also dis-

appeared during that time, and that for many
reasons.
CUN.How so ?
ATH.In the first place, owing to their desolate
state, they were kindly disposed and friendly towards
one another; and secondly, they had no need to
quarrel about food. For they had no lack of flocks
and herds (except perhaps some of them at the out-
set), and in that age these were what men mostly
VOL. I. o ^73
PLATO
T6) Tore 'x^povw' 'yuXuKro^ 'yap/cal Kpewv ovhafiS)^
evSeet^ -qaav, en
he 6rjpevovTe<; ov (f)av\7]v ou3'
oXiyrjv Tpo(f)r)v irapeixovTO. kol prjv dp,7r€')(6vi]'i
ye Kal <np(opvrj<; koX oiKiâeoiv koI (tkcvcov epirv-
pcov re Kal airvpcav eviropovv at TrXacrriKal yap
KUL baai TrXeKTiKal rcov Te-)^va)v ovBe ev rrpocrheov-
B Tai aLhrjpov ravra 8e irdvra tovtio tq> reyva
6eo<i eBwKe iropiêiv roU dvdp(i)TTot<;, Xv oTrore et?
rr)v TOiavr-qv diropiav eXOocev, exot ^XdaTqv Kal
eiriooaLv to twv dvOpcoircov yevo<;. TrevrjTe'i fiev
OTj Slo. to TOiovTov a(f)68pa ovk rjaav, ovK vtto
irevi,a<; dvayKatôpuevoL 8id(f>opoi eavTol<i eyiyvovro'
OVK dv TTOT iyevovTO d')(pV(roC re Kal
irXovcTLOL S'
dvdpyvpot ovre<; [o ToTe ev eKeivot<; Traprjv]} fi 8'
dv TTOre ^vvolkLo, pîjre nXovrof ^vvoiKjj p.rjre
irevla, aêSov ev ravrrj yevvatorara rjOrj ylyvoir
C dv ovre yap v^pi<; ovr dSiKia, îjXoi re av Kal
(pOovoi OVK eyyCyvovrac. dyaOol p,€V Bt) 8id
ravrd re tjcrav Kal hid rr)v Xeyop,evr}v evrjOeiav
a yap tjkovov KaXd Kal ala^^^pd, evr)deiêvhoLav,
(oaTrep rd vvv, dXXd irepl OeSiv re koX dvOpwyroov
ra Xeyopeva dXrjOrj vopiôvrehe ovrco ravra

^vvhoKet.
A0. OvKovv hcaîovaai
eiTTcop^v on yeveal
"TToXXal rovrov rov rpoirov KaraKXvcr p,ov rwv irpo
yeyovorcov Kal r5>v vvv dre'xyorepot, pev Kal dpa-
^
[> . . . Ka.p7\v\ omitted by Ficinus.
174
LAWS, BOOK III
lived on thus they were well supplied with milk

:
and meat, and they procured further supplies of

food, both excellent and plentiful, by hunting.
They were also well furnished with clothing and
coverlets and houses, and with vessels for cooking
and other kinds for no iron is required for the arts
;
of moulding and weaving, which two arts God gave

to men to furnish them with all these necessaries,
in order that the human race might have means of
sprouting and increase whenever it should fall into
such a state of distress. Consequently, they were
not excessively poor, nor were they constrained by
stress of poverty to quarrel one with another and,
;
on the other hand, since they were without gold and

silver, they could never have become rich. Now a
community which has no communion with either
poverty or wealth is generally the one in which the
noblest characters will be formed for in it there is
;
no place for the growth of insolence and injustice, of

rivalries and jealousies. So these men were good, both
for these reasons and because of their simple-minded-
ness, as it is called for, being simple-minded, when
;
they heard things called bad or good, they took

what was said for gospel-truth and believed it. For
none of them had the shrewdness of the modem
man to suspect a falsehood but they accepted as
;
true the statements made about gods and men, and

ordered their lives by them. Thus they were entirely
of the character we have just described.
CLIN. Certainly Megillus and I quite agree with
what you say.
ATH. And shall we not say that people living in
this fashion for many generations were bound to be
unskilled, as corapare<^ with either the antediluvians
175
PLATO
OecTTepot Trpo'i re ra? aWa<i /xeWovaip elvat
ri'xya'i koI 7rpo<; ra<; TroXefiiKa^;, oaai re ireâl
Kol oaac Kara OaXarrav yiyvovrai rh vvv, xal
ooraL 8r) Kara ttoXiv, ovofid ttov ^ hiKai Kal (rrdaei^
fiefirj'^âvijfievai 7ra Ja?
Xeyofievai, X6yoi<; epyoL8pei6repoi Kal dfia
aoxppovicrrepot Kal ^v/nravra StKaiorepot ; ro he
rovrcov acrcov j]8r] SieXijXvdafiev.
KA. '0/9^0)9 Xeyei<i.
A0. AeXix^di Bt} ravra -qixlv Kal ra rovroi^
^vveiro/Meva en
iravra elprjadw rovB eveKa, Iva
680 vo7](TQ}fiev T049 rore voficov Tt9 ttot ^v xP^''^ '^'**
Tt9 ^v vojjLoOerr^f; avroi^.
KA. Kal KaX(o /xipei t»}9 vepioSov yeyovoacv,
aXV edeai Kal roi
Xpovo) TToXireiav hvvaareiav KaXetv, rj Kal vvv
en TToXXaxov Kal ev "KXXr)(Ti Kal Kara âp-
fidpov^ eari' Xiyei 5' avrrjv rrov Kal "Ofir)po<;
^ ovofid vov : fi.6vov avTov MSS. (ovJôti Badham)
1 Cp. Arist. Pol. 1252'> 17 ff. This " headship," which i*
176
LAWS, BOOK III
or the men of to-day, and ignorant of arts in general

and especially of the arts of war as now practised by
land and sea, including those warlike arts which,
disguised under the names of law-suits and factions,
are peculiar to cities, contrived as they are with
every device of word and deed to inflict mutual hurt
and injury and that they were also more simple
;
and brave and temperate, and in all ways more

righteous ? And the cause of this state of things we
have already explained.
CLIN. Quite true.
ATH. We
must bear in mind that the whole
purpose of what we have said and of what we are
going to say next is this, —that we may understand
what possible need of laws the men of that time
had, and who their lawgiver was.
CLIN.Excellent.
ATH. Shall we suppose that those men had no
need of lawgivers, and that in those days it was not
as yet usual to have such a thing ? For those born
in that age of the world's history did not as yet
possess the art of writing, but lived by following
custom and what is called " patriarchal "law.
CLIN. That is certainly probable.
ATH. But this already amounts to a kind of
government.
CLIN. What kind ?
ATH. Everybody, I believe, gives the name of
" headship " to the government which then existed,
— and it still continues to exist to-day among both
Greeks and barbarians in many quarters.^ And, of
course. Homer 2 mentions its existence in connexion
the hereditary personal authority of the father of a family
or chief of a clan, we should term "patriarchy."
* Odyst. ix. 112 ffi
177
PLATO
yeyovevat irepX ttjv tmv KvKXooTrcov otxijaiv,
TOicriv S' ovT ayopal ôvXr)(f)6poi oine
aXV ot y vyfrrjXcov opewv vaLOVcri Kaprjva

ip arr€cr(Xi'y\a(pvpotaL, Oe/j^carTeveiSe eKacr-
G Tralhwv rjh^ aXo^ci)!/, ov8' aWrjXmv ake-

yovcnv.
KA. "Eot«e 76 6 'rrovr)T7)<i vfxiv ovto^ yeyovivai

'âpiei'i. Koi yapkoX hrj aWa avrov hLeXrfkv-
Oafxev fia)C dcrreca, ov firjv TToWd ye' ov yap
a(f)68pa 'X^poofxeda ol }LpijT€<; rot'} ^€viKol<i iroirj-
fiacrtv.
ME. 8' av ')(^p(i)fieda /nev, koI eoiKe ye
'H/iet?
Kparelv toiovtcov TTOirjTMV ov fievrot AaKW-
rrcov
1iKov ye, ciWd riva fidWov Îwvikov filov hieêp-

D %eTat eKciaTOTe. vvv /xt)v ev tw (tu> Xoyw eoiKC
fiaprvpelv, ro dp'xâlov avTwv eVi ttjv dypLOTrjTa
Sid fivdo\oyLao<i BiecTrapfievwv vtto dTropca<;
rr]<i ev ral<i (f)Oopal<;, ev ol<; ro irpea^vrarov apx^''
8id rb rrjv dp^V^ avroi<; eK Trarpo? koI /Mrjrpo^

E ')eyovevai, oI? eTrofievoc KaOdirep opvtOe^ dyeXrjv
fiiav •noirjaovai, Trarpovo/jLov/ievoi, Kai jSaaiXetav
Tracrayv SiKaiordrrjv /SaaiXevo/jLCVOi ;
178
LAWS, BOOK III
with the household system of the Cyclopes, where he

says
" No halls of council and no laws are theirs.

But within hollow caves on mountain heights
Aloft they dwell, each making his own law
For wife and child of others reck they naught,"
;
CLIN. This poet of yours seems to have been a

man of genius. We have also read other verses of
his, and they were extremely fine though in truth
;
we have not read much of him, since we Cretans do

not indulge much in foreign poetry.
MEG. But we Spartans do, and we regard Homer
as the best of them all the same, the mode of life
;
he describes is always Ionian rather than Laconian.

And now he appears to be confirming your statement
admirably, when in his legendary account he ascribes
the primitive habits of the Cyclopes to their
savagery.
ATH. Yes, his testimony supports us so let us;
take him as evidence that polities of this sort do

sometimes come into existence.
cuN. Quite right.
ATH. Did they not originate with those people
who lived scattered in separate clans or in single
households, owing to the distress which followed
after the catastrophes for amongst these the eldest
;
holds rule, owing to the fact that the rule proceeds

from the parents, by following whom they form a
single flock, like a covey of birds, and live under a
patriarchal government and a kingship which is of
all kingships the most just?
179
PLATO
KA. Tldvv fl€V ovv,
A0. Mera he ravrd ye et? to kolvov fieiiôv^
<7roifjLva^ 7ToiovvT€<; [7r6\et9] ttXciov; avvepyov-
rac, Kai eiri yewpyia^ ra? iv ral^ virwpeiai'i rpi-
681 TTovrai TTpcora^, ireptôXovi re ai/jLacncoB6i<; riva({
rei^fwy <t'>^ epvftaTa roiv drjptcov evexa noiovv-
rai, fMtav oiKiav av kolvtjv koI fieydXrjv d-nore-
\ovvTe<;.
KA. To yovv elKOf ravd^ ovtq) yiyveadai.
A0. Tt 8e ; ToSe apa ovk eiKO'i ;
KA. To TTolov ;
A0. Toil' oiKâetov tovtcov fieiôvcov avâvo-
fievwv ex -roiv iXaTTOvcov fcal Trpcorcov, eKdarijv
TMV 0p.tKpot)v Trapeivat Kara yevo^ exovaav top
B T€ irpea^vTarov dpôPTa koX avrr]<i eOrj drra
i8ia 8td TO ')((iipl^ dWrfkayv oiKelv, erepa a^'
irepajv ovrwv tcov yevv^^ropcov re kol Opeyjrdvriav
a eWicrdrjaav irepl deov<; re Kal €avrov<; Kocrfiico-
repoiv fiev KO(xp,i(orepa koX dvBpiKcov dvSpiKcorepa'
Kal Kara rporrov ovrw^ €Kdarov<; rd<; avrSiv dv
aipecrei^ ' el<i roix; TratSa? dirorvirov jxevovi Kal
rraihayv rralha<i, o Xeyofiev, rjK6Lv ex,ovra<; l8i,ov<i
vofMov^ els Trjv p.eiôva ^vvoiKiav.

KA. n&i? yap ov ;
A0. Kai fJLTjv rov<; ye aiiroiv vofiovf; dpecrKeiv

eKd(TroL I add, and bracket [v6\eis].

2 <t'> added by W -MoUendorflf.
i8o
LAWS, BOOK III

ATH. Next, they congregate together in greater
numbers, and form larger droves and first they ;
turn to farming on the hill-sides, and make ring-

fences of rubble and walls to ward off wild beasts,
till finally they have constructed a single large
common dwelling.
CLIN. It is certainly probable that such was the
course of events.
ATH. Well, is not this also probable ?
CLIN. What ?
ATH. That, while these larger settlements were

growing out of the original small ones, each of the
small settlements continued to retain, clan by
clan, both the rule of the eldest and also some
customs derived from its isolated condition and
peculiar to itself. As those who begot and reared
them were different, so these customs of theirs,
relating to the gods and to themselves, differed,
being more orderly where their forefathers had been
orderly, and more brave where they had been brave ;
and as thus the fathers of each clan in due course
stamped upon their children and children's children
theirown cast of mind, these people came (as we
say) into the larger community furnished each with
their own peculiar laws.
CLIN. Of course.
ATH. And no doubt each clan was well pleased
with its own laws, and less well with those of its
neighbours.
CLIN. True.
ATH. Unwittingly, as it seems, we have now set
foot, as it were, on the starting-point of legislation.
* iv cdpifffis Schneider, Hermann : araipiatis MSS.

i8i
PLATO
KA. Udvv fiev ovv.
A0. To <yovv fxera raina ava'yKalov alpetaOai
Toi»9 (TVV€KttovTa<i Tovrovf; KOLvovi Tipa<; eavrcDv,
oi St] to, TTavTcov l86vTe<i vofiifia, to,aîanv dpea-
Kovra avToyv fidXiara eh to kolvov toI<; qyefiocri
Kat a'ya'yovai tov<; 8t]fx,ov^ olov /SaaiXevcri (ftavepd
D 8ecâvT€v Swaareicov TronjaavTa
7) Kai Tiva /3aacX€i'av, ev Tavrrj ttj fieraôXr} t^?
TToXiTeta? oiKr)(TovaLV.
KA. E(j}€^fj 8r) iravra
koI iradrjpara €187]
iroXneiMv koI dpa TToXecov ^v/nrtTrrei yiyveadai.
E KA. To TTolov hrj TOVTO ;
A0. O pêra ro SevTcpov kuI "Op,r}po<i eirear]-
"
p.i]varo, Xiycov to rpirov ovtco jeyovevai,' KTLcrae

Be AapSavlrjv yap irov <^r}cn,v,
eVel ovTrco "iXto? Ipi]

iv Treoift) TreTroXicrro, TroXt? p-epoTTtov dvdpco-
ircov,
aXX' eO' vircopeia'; <aKovv iroXvirihaKov "IS?;?.
682 Xiyei yap ravTU ra eirrj koI CKeiva a irepl tmv

Brj
Kara 6e6v irco^ elprip,eva Koi

K.VKX(07rcov eipr]K6
Kara (pvaiw delov yap ovv hrj koI to ttoitjtikov
[evdeaariKov^ ^ ov yevo<i vfiva)8ovv iroXXSiv rSiv
* [ivOta<rriKhv'\ bracketed by Boeckh, Schanz.

183
LAWS, BOOK III
cuN. We have indeed.

The next step necessary is that these people
ATH.
should come together and choose out some members
of each clan who, after a survey of the legal usages
of all the clans, shall notify publicly to the tribal
leaders and chiefs (who may be termed their •' kings ")
which of those usages please them best, and shall
recommend their adoption. These men will them-
selves be named "legislators," and when they have
established the chiefs as " magistrates," and have
framed an aristocracy, or possibly even a monarchy,
from the existing plurality of " headships," they will
live under the constitution thus transformed.
CLIN. The next steps would certainly be such as
you describe.
ATH. Let us go on to describe the rise of a third
form of constitution, in which are blended all kinds
and varieties of constitutions, and of States as well.^
CLIN. What form is that ?
ATH. The same that Homer himself mentioned
next to the second, when he said that the third form
arose in this way. His verses * run thus
" Dardania he founded when as yet
The holy keep of Ilium was not built
Upon the plain, a town for mortal folk.
But still they dwelt upon the highland slopes
Of many-fountain'd Ida."
Indeed, these verses of his, as well as those he utteis
concerning the Cyclopes, are in a kind of unison with
the voices of both God and Nature. For being
divinely inspired in its chanting, the poetic tribe,
* For this " mixed " polity of the " city of the plain," cp.
the description of democracy in Rep. 557 Dfif.
2 n. XX. 216 S.
183
PLATO
Kar a\i)0eiav 'Î'^vofievayv ^vv riai X.dpiai Kal
Moucrat? e<f)dTrT6rai eKaarore.
KA. Kal fiaXa.
Ae. Et? Bt) to rrrpocrOev rrpoekdwixev eri rov vvv
i7re\0ovTO<; tj/jlIv /j,vOov. Taâ yap av crrjfij^veLe
TL T7}9 rjpêTepa^ irepc ôvXijcreco^. ovkovv ')(^prj
B KA. Tidvv fiev ovV'

Ae. K-aTaKLaOr] 8i], (fyajxiv, €k twv v-^rfKoiv eh
fieya re koi koKov ttcSlov "iXcov, eVt XocfiOP riva
ovx v-^rfXov KaX e')(ôvTa TroTa/xov'i ttoXXou?
dvooBev e'/c t/)? Î8r)<; oiip/j,i]/j,evov^.
KA. âal <yovv.
A0. 'A /a' OVV ovK iv ttoWoi^ Tial ')(p6voc<; toc<;
fiera rov KaraxXva/xov tovto olofieOa yeyopevai ;
KA. Ho)? 3' OVK iv iroWoZ'i ;
A0. AeiVT} yovv eoLKev avroi^ \rj0rf Tore irap-
C eivai vvv \eyofievr)<; <pOopd<;, 60' oyrtw? viro
rr]<i
7roTafiov<; ttoXXou? /cal €k rcov vyjrr)\cbv peovTw;

TToXiv vireOecrav, Triarevaavre'i ov a(p68pa vyjrrjXolii
rial Xocpoi^.
KA. Ar]Xov OVV ft)? TTavTairaai riva fiUKpbv
diTel-)(ôv'xpovov Tov toiovtov 7rddov<:.
A0. Kal dXXai ye, olfiai, TroXet? roTe kutwkovv
r]Br) iroXXal ttXtjOvovtcov rcov dvdpooTrcoV'
KA, Tl iirjv ;
A0. Ar ye TTOV koX eTrecrrparevaavro avrrj, xal

Kara ddXarrav Se ia(o<;, a0o/9(U9 57877 irdvrayv
'^(pco/xevoov rfi OdXdrrrj.
D KA. âiverai.
Ae. Ae/tra S' errj rrov p.€ivavre<; Â')(aiql rrjv
Tpoi'av dvdcrrarov eirotrja-av.
KA. Kal fidXa.
t«4
LAWS, BOOK III
with the aid of Graces and Muses, often grasps the

truth of history.
CLIN. It certainly does.
ATH. Now let us advance still further in the
tale that now engages us ; for possibly it may furnish
some hint regarding the matter we have in view.
Ought we not to do so ?
ATH. Ilium was founded, we say, after moving
from the highlands down to a large and noble plain,
on a hill of no great height which had many rivers
flowing down from Ida above.
CLIN. So they say.
ATH. And do we not suppose that this took place
many ages after the Deluge }
CLIN. Many ages after, no doubt.
ATM. At any rate they seem to have been strangely
forgetful of the catastrophe now mentioned, since
they placed their city, as described, under a number
of rivers descending from the mount, and relied for
their safety upon hillocks of no great height.
CLIN. So it is evident that they were removed by
quite a long interval from that calamity.
ATH. By this time, too, as mankind multiplied,
many other cities had been founded.
CLIN. Of course.
ATH. And these cities also made attacks on Ilium,
probably by sea too, as well as by land, since by this
time all made use of the sea fearlessly.
CUN. So it appears.
ATH. And after a stay of ten years the Achaeans
sacked Troy.
CLIN. Very true.
185
PLATO
Ae. OvKovv iv TOVTQ) TO) ')(^p6v(a, ovri SeKerei,
ov TO "IXiov eiToXLopKelro, ra tcov TroXiopKovvTwp
eKaarcov oXkol kuko, iroWa ^vveâive yiyvofieva
irepl Ta9 (ndaeif; rSiv vecov, ot koX acfyiKO/xevovi
Tov<i eh ra? avTOJV TroA-et? re xal
crTpaTi(i)Ta<i
E olKva<i ov /caX«09 ouS' iv SIkt} vTreSeâvro, aW'
o)(TT€ davdrov^ T€ koI acfjaydi; kuI (f)vya<; yeveadai
Tra/j,7r6XXa<i' ot TcdXiv eKTrecrovre^; KaTrjXdov fie-
TaâX6vT€<; opo/j,a, Acopir]i; dvT 'A'xâicov kXt}-
0evT€<i Bia TO TOP avXXeâvra elvac Ta<; rore (fivydii
Acoptd. Kol 8r] Taind ye ijStj irdvS' vp.el'i, o)
AuKeSaifMovcoi, rdvrevdev fivdoXoyelre re kuI
BiaTrepaCv€T€.
ME. Tt firjv
A0. "Odev
Br] Kar dp-)(^d^ iêr pa-rr 6 p,e6 a irepl
vojxwv BiaXeyofievoi, Trepnveaovre'i /xova-iKrj re kuI
raU /iiedai'i, vvv eirl rd avrd irdXiv d(f)iy/j,eda
Kara deov, koI 6 X0709 rjjxiv olov Xa^rjv
coaTrep
diroBiScoaiv rjKei yap eirl rrjv ei<; AuKeSal/xova
683 KarotKiaLv avrrjv, fjv vfxeLare KarcfiKia-
6ai^ KaX YLprjTrjv co? dheX<ôl<i vo/xot^. vvv ovv Btj
ToaovBe TrXeove/CTOv/xev rrj irXdvy rov Xoyov, Bid
iroXireicov rivcov kol KaroiKia p^wv BieêXdovre^'
edeaadfieda irpdorrjv re koI Bevrepav kcu rpirrjv
TToXiv, aXXriXoyv, o)? olofieda, ral^ KaroiKiaeaiv
* KOTtfKlffdai Ast ; /fOToiK«r(rflai MSS-
^ We
do not hear of him elsewhere ; and the account here
isso vague that it is hard to say what events (or traditions)
are alluded to. The usual story is that Dorian invaders
drove out the Achaeans from S. Greece (about 900 B.O.).
» Cp. 638 D.
t^6
LAWS, BOOK III
ATH. Now during this period of ten years, while

the siege lasted, the affairs of each of the besiegers
at home suffered much owing to the seditious con-
duct of the young men. For when the soldiers
returned to their own cities and homes, these young
people did not receive them fittingly and justly, but
in such a way that there ensued a vast number of
cases of death, slaughter, and exile. So they, being
again driven out, migrated by sea and because
;
Dorieus ^ was the man who then banded together the

exiles, they got the new name of " Dorians," instead
of " Achaeans." But as to all the events that follow
this, you Lacedaemonians relate them all fully in
your traditions,
MEG. Quite true.
ATH. —
And now as it were by divine direction
we have returned once more to the very point in
our discourse on laws where we made our digression,^
when we plunged into the subject of music and
drinking-parties and we can, so to speak, get a
;
fresh grip upon the argument, now that it has

—
reached this point, the settlement of Lacedaemon,
about which you said truly that it and Crete were
settled under kindred laws. From the wandering
course of our argument, and our excursion through
various polities and settlements, we have now gained
this much we have discerned a first, a second and
:
a third State,^ all, as we suppose, succeeding one

another in the settlements which took place during
'i.e. (1) the family or clan, under patriarchal "head-

ship" ; (2) the combination of clans under an aristocracy (or
monarchy) (3) the "mixed" State (or " city of the plain,"
;
like Troy); and (4) the confederacy, consisting, in the

example, of three States leagued together.
187
PLATO
ev xpovov tivo^ fiiJKeaiv aTrXerot?.
e')(pfi,eva<i vvv
8e Terdpri] rt? rj/xlv avrij TToXt?, el Se /SovXeade,
St)
eOvos rjKei KaToiKiôfxevov re irore koI vvv KaroiKia-

B fievov. e^ wv aTrcivTcov ei re ^vveivai hwdfieda
ri T€ Ka\(o<i Tj fit) KUToiKiaOr], kuI ttolol v6/u,oi
(TMôvaiv avTcbv to, (rmôfxeva kui ttoIol cÔeipovai
ra (f)0€ipo/xeva, Kai dvrl ttolmv irola fieTareOevTa
evSaifiova iroXiv direpydôir dv, oi ^le'ytXK.e re
Kol KXetwa, ravra 8r) irdXiv olov i^ ^PXV^ 'q/J-tv
XcKTeov, el ixrj n
to2<; elpr)p,evot<; eyKaXov/iiev Xoyoi'i.
ME. Et yovv, 0) êve, ri<; rjfiiv virocr'ôtTo Oeo'i
C ft)?, edv eTn-)(eiprjaoi jxev to SevTepov rfj t?}? vofio-
deaia^ aKeyjrei, tcov vvv elprjêvoiv Xoycov ov
êi/9oi;9 ouS' eXaTTOf? aKovaofxeOa, /xa/cpdv dv
eXBot/jLi eycoye, Kai fioc 0pa')(e'L dv Soêiev 77 vvv
irapovaa rjfxepa ytyvecrOai. Kai toi a'^êSov y
earlv 1) ck Oepivcov eh rd 'xeifiepivd rov deov
rpeTTOfxevov.
A0. Xpr) 8r} ravra, co? eocKe, aKoireiv.
ME. Tldvv fxev ovv.
A0. VevdiixeOa 8t) rai rore
'X^povm, ore AaKe8aip,cov fiev Kai "Apyo<; Kai Mea-
(Tijvr) Kai rd fxerd rovrcov vnoêipta roU rrpoyo-
D voL'i v/j,(t)V, Si yieyiXXe, iKava><i eyeyover rb Be 87]
fierd rovro e8oêv avrol<;, cu9 ye Xeyerai to rov

pLvOov, TpiXV "^^ (rrpdrev/xa 8iaveL/j,avra<; rpet?
Tr6Xei<} KarocKiêiv, "A/j-yo?, M.€a<ri]vr]v, AaKe8ai-
fiova.
ME. Yidvv /xev ovv.
Ae. Kaiâ(TiXev<; fiev Âpyov<i Ttj/xevo'; eyiy-
vero, M.€aa-i]vr]<; 8e Kpea<p6vrr)<i, AaKe8aifiovo^ 8k
T\poKXri<i Kai Rvpva6evrj<;.
xas
LAWS, BOOK III
vast ages of time. And now there has emerged this

fourth State— or "nation," if you so prefer —
which
was once upon a time in course of estabHshment and
is now established. Now, if we can gather from all
this which of these settlements was right and which
wrong, and which laws keep safe what is kept safe,
and which laws ruin what is ruined, and what
changes in what particulars would effect the happi-
—
ness of the State, then, O Megillus and Clinias,
we ought to describe these things again, making a
fresh start from the beginning, — unless we have
some fault to find with our previous statements.
MEG. I can assure you, Stranger, that if some
god were to promise us that, in making this second
attempt to investigate legislation, we shall listen to
a discourse that is no worse and no shorter than that
we have just been listening to, I for one would go a
long way to hear it indeed, this would seem quite
;
a short day, although it is, as a matter of fact, close

on midsummer.
ATH. So it seems that we must proceed with our
enquiry.
MEG. Most certainly.
ATH. Let us, then, place ourselves in imagination
at that epoch when Lacedaemon, together with Argos
and Messene and the adjoining districts, had become
completely subject, Megillus, to your forefathers.
They determined next, according to the tradition,
to divide their host into three parts, and to establish
—
three States, Argos, Messene and Lacedaemon.
MEG. Very true.
ATH. And Temenus became King of Argos, Cres-
phontes of Messene, and Procles and Eurysthenes
of I..acedaemon.
189
PLATO
ME. ITfti? 'yap ov ;
A0. Kal 7rdvTe/jiO(Tav oi Tore

E ôr]0/](Teiv, edv ti<; ttjv jBaaiKeiav avrSiv BcacfideipT].
ME. Tt fj,7]v ;
A0. BacTiXeta he KaraXverac, (o 7rp6<} Aio?, -^
«:at Tf9 o,pXV TTftjTroTe KareX-vdr) ficov vvo tivcov

aWwv 7] a^wv avTcov ; t] vvv Bt) fiev [oXiyov
e/XTvpoadev] ^ tovtoi^ TT6piTV)(6m€<; toI<{ \6yoi,<i
ovT(o ravT eTcdefiev, vvv S' iTTiXeXrjcrfjLeda ;
ME. Kal 7ra)9 /
A0. OvKOvv vvv Br) fidWov êâiwcrofieda to
roiovTOv irepnvôvTe^ yap €pyoi<; yevofievoL<i, to?
€oiK€v, eVt rov avTOV \6yov i\r)Xv6afi€v, tocrre ov
vepl Kevov ti iî)Tr)(jop.ev \tov avrov X6yov\^ oKXa
684 TTepX yeyov6<i re Kal eôv dXrjdeiav. yiyove Br)
rdBe' âaiXetai T/)et? â(TcX€vofxevai<i iroXecn
rpiTTal^ lofjboaav dXXr)Xai<i eKdrepai, Kara vofiovi;
ov<i eOevro rov re dp-xêiv Kal apxecdai Koivovt,
oi fxev p-T) ^latorepav rrjv dp')(r)v TTOnjaeaBai
trpolovro'i rov "^povov Kal yevov<i, ol Be ravra
ep-ireBovvroiv roov dp^^ôvrcov iMrjre avrol ra<; âat-
Xem? TTore KaraXvaetv pLTjr iirirpeylreiv e'nL)(ei-
povaiv erepoL<i, ôr}$7Jaei.v Be â(TiXr)(; re âcn-
B XevaLv dBiKov/j,evoi^ Kal Bijfioi'i Kal Brjp.01- Brjp.oi'i
Kal âaiXevaiv dBiKoufxevofi. ap ovx ovr(i><i ;
ME. OvTco p,ev ovv.
A0. OiiKovv ro ye puiyiarov rai<i Karaardaeai
ra)v TToXireccov t'7r?}/9^6 rat? ev rac<; rpccrl TroXecri
vo/j,o6erov/u,evai<i, eire ol âa-iXr)'; evofjuoOerovv elr
aXXoi rive<;
' [oKlyov HjjLvpoffOev] bracketed by Cobet, Schanz.

* [rbv .
. \6yov] bracketed by Badliam, Schanz.
.
190
LAWS, BOOK III
MEG. Of course.
ATH. And all the men of that time swore that
they would assist these kings if anyone should try
to wreck their kingdoms.
MEG. Quite so.
ATH. Is the dissolution of a kingdom, or of
any government that has ever yet been dissolved,
caused by any other agency than that of the rulers
themselves ? Or, though we made this assertion a
moment ago when we happened upon this subject,
have we now forgotten it ? ^
MEG. How could we possibly have forgotten?
ATH. Shall we further confirm that assertion now ?
For we have come to the same view now, as it appears,
in dealing with facts of history so that we shall be
;
examining it with reference not to a mere abstraction,

but to real events. Now what actually took place
was this each of the three royal houses, and the
:
cities under their sway, swore to one another,^

according to the laws, binding alike on ruler and
subject, which they had made, —the rulers that, as
time went on and the nation advanced, they would
refrain from making their rule more severe, and the
subjects that, so long as the rulers kept fast to their
promise, they would never upset the monarchy
themselves, nor would they allow others to do so
and they swore that the kings should aid both kings
and peoples when wronged, and the peoples aid both
peoples and kings. Was not that the way of it ?
MEG. It was.
ATH. —
In the polities legally established whether
—
by the kings or others in the three States, was not
this the most important principle ?
1 Cp. 682 D, E. » Cp. 692 B.

191
PLATO
ME. Uoiov
A0. To ôrjdov^ ye
elvai raî 8vo cttI ttjv ^liav
aei TTokiv, Trjv Tot? reOeiai vofioa direiOovaav.
ME. ArjXov.
A0. Kat /u.î' TOVTo ye ol ttoWoI TTpoaTUTTOvai
C Totf vo/xo6€Tai<:, ottoj? ToiovTov<; drjcrovaL rov<;
vofiovi ou? €k6vt€^ KoX TO, ttXtjOi] Bi-
01 Bijfxoc
ôvrai, KaOdirep av et rif yv/xvaa-Tal^ rj laTpol<i
TrpoardTTOi fied^ rjBopyj'i depaireveiv re Kol Idadai
TO, depairevofieva aMfiara.
ME. Uavrdiracn /xev ovv.
A0. To 8e 7' iarXv dyairriTov 7ro\XdKi<; el kul
Ti9 fieTCL \v7rrj<; firj fieydXîî Bvvano eveKTiKd re
Kal iiyir) (jdifxaTa direpydêaOai.
ME. Tt p,i)v
D A0. Kal roBe ye eVt rol'i Tore inrrjp')(ev ov
(TfiiKpbv et? paaT(ovT]v t?}<? deaea^ Tb>v vopnov.
ME. To TTOiOV ;
A0. OvK rjv T0i9 vo/j,od€Tai<; 17 fieyicnr) tcov

p.ifiyp'ecov, laoTrjra avrol^ rivd KaracrKevdôvai
T//9 ovalai^, rjTrep ev dWrj ^ voô6eTovixevai<;
TToXeai 7roA.Xai9 yiyverai, edv Tt9 ^V'^V 7^"> '^^
KTTjaiv KLvelv KaX ^(^pewv BidXvcriv, opoiv ci)9 ovk
av BvvaiTO dvev rovrcov yevecrdat, iroje to Xaov
iKav(ii<i' a>9 eTTLyêipovvTi, Br) vofwOirrj Kcvelv rfav
E TotovT(ov ri 7ra9 diravTO, Xeywv firj Ktvelv tu
aKLvtira, Kal eTrapdrai 7779 re dvaBaafiov<i ela-
iiyovfxevu) ^ Kal ')(^peS)v diroKOTrd^, oxtt el<i diropiav
xaOiaraadai Trdvra dvBpa. T0t9 Be Brj Acopievtrt
1 &\\ti England: HWais Zur., al. aWvâis MSS. :
^ flartyovixivifH. Richards, England flaijyoififvoy MSS.:

LAWS, BOOK III
MEG. What ?
ATH. That the other two States should always
help against the third, whenever it disobeyed the
laws laid down.
MEG. Evidently.
ATH. And surely most people insist on this,
that the lawgivers shall enact laws of such a kind
that the masses of the people accept them willingly ;
just as one might insist that trainers or doctors

should make their treatments or cures of men's
bodies pleasurable.
MEG. Exactly so.
ATH. But in fact one often has to be content il
one can bring a body into a sound and healthy state
with no great amount of pain.
MEG. Very true.
ATH. The men of that age possessed also another
advantage which helped not a little to facilitate
legislation.^
MEG. What was that .''
ATH. Their legislators, in their efforts to establish

equality of property, were free from that worst of
accusations which is commonly incurred in States
with laws of a different kind, whenever anyone seeks
to disturb the occupation of land, or to propose the
abolition of debts, since he perceives that without
these measures equality could never be fully secured.
In such cases, if the lawgiver attempts to disturb
any of these things, everyone confronts him with
the cry, " Hands off," and they curse him for intro-
ducing redistributions of land and remissions of
debts, with the result that every man is rendered
powerless. But the Dorians had this further advan-
» Cp. 736 C.
195
PLATO
Koi Tovd^ OUTO)? V7rr]p')(e /caXoi? kuI avefiearjrcof;,
yrjv re dva/ji<f>i(T^r)ri]Ta><i 8iavefx,€a6at, koI %/3ea
fiefâXa kcu TraXaia ovk tjv.
ME. *A\r}dr].
n^ 87^ TTOTC OVV, Si dpKTTOl, KaKCi)<? OUTft)?
A0.
avTol^ i-ycoprjaev rj KaroLKiaLS re koi yofiodecrCa ;
685 ME. Ilco9 677, Koi ri fM€/x(f>6/x€vo<i avrcov \eyet<i ;
A0. '
On rptMv <yevop,evci)v rcop olKrjcrewv to.
hvo avTcov ra'xy rijv re TroXiTeiav xal tou?
p-eprj
v6fiov<; Biecfideipe, to Se ev pLOVov epêive, to Tfj<;

vp,€T€pa<; 7roXe&)9.
ME. Ov irdvv paBiov ipoiTa<i.
A0. AWa prjv Bel <ye rjpd^ tovto ev t& vvv
(TK07rovvra<i Kal eêrdôvraf;, irepl vopwv irai-
ôvTa<i TratSidv irpea^VTiKrjv acocppova, SieXdelv
B TTjv 686v dXvTTco^, o)9 €(f)ap€V ^viKa rjp-ôpeda
TTopeveaOac.
ME. Tt p.'^v ; Kol iroirjreov ye d)<; Xeyet?.
A0. Ttr OVV av (TKeylnv KaWio) TroirjcraipLeda
vepl vop,ci}v rj tovtcov 01 ravTa^ BiaK€Koa-p,7]Kaa-iv ;
rjTToXeoiv irepX tIvcov evBoKtpcoTepcov re Kal fiei-
^6v(ov KaToiKLaewv a-Konoiped' dv
ME. Ovpahiov dvrl tovtcov erepa? Xeyecv.
A0. OvKovv on p,ev Sievoovvro ye 01 totc tj^v
KaTacTKevrjv tuvttjv ov Tle\o7rovv7]<r a povov eae-
C aOai ÔT}66v iKavrjv, a')(ehov hrjkov, dWd Kal toi<;
'
EXX,?7<rt irdaiv, et rt? tmv fiap^dpcov avTOv<i
dSiKoi, Kaddirep ol irepl to ^'IXlov olKovvT€<i totc,
* i.e. the Dorian settlers, by right of conquest, were free
to do as they pleased none of the old owners or creditors

:
could assert rights or claims.
^94
LAWS, BOOK III
tage, that they were free from all dread of giving

offence, so that they could divide up their land
without dispute; and they had no large debts of
old standing. '^
MEG. True.
ATM. How was it then, my good sirs, that their
settlement and legislation turned out so badly?
MEG. What do you mean ? What fault have you
to find with it ?
ATH. This, that whereas there were three States
settled, two of the three ^ speedily wrecked their
constitution and their laws, and one only remained
stable —
and that was your State, Megillus.
MEG. The question is no easy one.
ATH. Yet surely in our consideration and enquiry
into this subject, indulging in an old man's sober
play with laws, we ought to proceed on our journey
painlessly, as we said ^ when we first started out.
MEG. Certainly, we must do as you say.
ATH. Well, what laws would offer a better subject
for investigation than the laws by which those
States were regulated? Or what larger or more
famous States are there about whose settling we
might enquire ?
MEG. It would be hard to mention better instances
than these.
ATH. It is fairly evident that the men of that
age intended this organisation of theirs to serve as
an adequate protection not only for the Pelopon-
nesus, but for the whole of Hellas as well, in case
any of the barbarians should attack them ^just as —
the former dwellers around Ilium were emboldened
» viz. Argos and Messene, —the third being Laconia.
3 Cp. 625 B.
»9S
PLATO
Îvov <y€Vo/jL€vij, Opaavvo/jLevoi tov iroXefiov rjyei-

pav TOP eirl Tpotav. r)v 'yap eVt to t>7<> apyrj<i
€K€ivr]<; ax^P'CL to a(o^6/j.€vov ov ajxiKpov. Ka-

ddirep vvv top fxeyav âaiXea (f)Oj3ovfMeda ^fiei^,
KoX Tore eKeivqv rrjv avaraOelaav avvraîv eSe-
Sicrav 01 Tore. fieya jap ejKXrjfjUi tt/jo? avTov<;
D rj rfj^ Tpoia'i d\ai(Ti,<; to hemepov iyejoper t^?
a.pxv'i 7^P Tti'ieKeivwv rjv fxopiov. 7rpo<i Srj ravT
Tjv irdvTa r)
"•
rov arparoTreBov tov rore Siape/XTj-
6eiaa et? rpel^ TroXei^ KaracTKevr) fiia vtto âat-
XecDV aBeXcbofP, iralScov 'Hpa/cX-eou?, /caXco?, eo? ^
€ooK€C, avevpT]/jbevT] Kai KaraKeKoa pbTjfievq Kai

Bia(f)€povTO}<; T% eVt ttjv Tpoiav dîKop,evr)<;.
TrpMTov jxev yap
rov<; 'HpaKXelSw; twv IleXo-
r]yovvTO dpôvrcov dpôvra'i eêtv,
TTihoiiv d/LL6ivov<;
E eTrecT av to crrpaTOTreSov tovto tov cttI TpoicLv
dcjiiKo/xevov Siacfyipeiv irpo^ dpeTrjV veviKijKevai
yap T0VT0V<i, rjTTijadai^ 8' vtto tovtcov eKeivov;,
^ A.'xâ.iom ovtu^ vtto AcopLecov. ap" ov^ ovt(o<;
olofxeOa Kai tj} Ziavoia ravTrj KaraaKevdêadai
TOl'9 T0T6 ;
ME. Udvv fiev ovv.

A0. OuKOvv Kul to fieâia)<i oteadai, TavO^
eêiv cIko^ avrov^ xal ')(^p6vov tiv av iroXvv
686 are KeKoivcovrjKOTai; p,ev
fieveiv, ttoXXwv ttovwv
Kai KLvhvvcov dXXrjXoi^, vtto yevov<i 8e evo? Twi"
âaiXicov d8eX<f)(t)v optcov SiaKeKoafirj/xevov^;, TTyoo?
* ravT ?iv Schneider ravrriv MSS. Tavra Zur., vulg,

: :
" &s MSS. omitted by Staph., Zur.

,
^ 7irT7i<rdai Boeckh, Schanz: TjTTaffdat MSS.
196
LAWS, BOOK III
to embark on the Trojan War through reliance on

the Assyrian power as it had been in the reign of
Ninus.^ For much of the splendour of that empire
still survived and the people of that age stood in
;
fear of its confederate power, just as we men of to-day

dread the Great King. For since Troy was a part of
the Assyrian empire, the second ^ capture of Troy
formed a grave charge against the Greeks. It was
in view of all this that the Dorian host was at that
time organised and distributed amongst three States
under brother princes, the sons of Heracles ^ and ;
men thought it admirably devised, and in its equip-

ment superior even to the host that had sailed to
Troy. For men reckoned, first, that in the sons of
Heracles they had better chiefs than the Pelopidae,*
and further, that this army was superior in valour to
the army which went to Troy, since the latter, which
was Achaean, was worsted by the former, which was
Dorian. Must we not suppose that it was in this
way, and with this intention, that the men of that
age organised themselves?
MEG. Certainly.
ATH. Is it not also probable that they would
suppose this to be a stable arrangement, and likely
to continue quite a long time, since they had shared
together many toils and dangers, and were marshal-
led under leaders of a single family (their princes
being brothers), and since, moreover, they had con-
* The mythical founder
of the Assyrian empire, husband
of Semiramis, and builder of Nineveh (dated about 2200 B.C.).
* The first "capture" was by Heracles, in the reign of
Laomedon, father of Priam. Cp. //, v. 640 flF.
' 112. Temsnus, king of Argos, Procles and Eurysthenee of
Laconia, Cresphontes of Messene.

* viz. Agamemnon and Menelaus.
197
PLATO
TOVTOl^ 8 €Tl Kol TToWot? fldvTeCTl Ke')(pr)fjLeVOV ATroWfovi ; *
ME. IIoo? h ovK €Ik6<; ;

A0. TavTa Sr) to, /j,€yaX.a ovtco TrpocrSoKcofieva
oi€7rraTo, (09 eoiKe, Tore 'Ta')(y, ttXtju oirep eonofiev
vvv 8rj (TfiiKpov jMepov; rov irepl top vjxeTepov
B TOTTOV Kal rovTo Srj rrpo'? ra 8vo fêprj TroXe/xovp
ov TTooTTOTe 7r€7ravTat P'€)(^pi' to, vvv iirel yepo/jiivrj
ye r) Tore Bidvoia koX ^vfM(f)Q)v/)aa<Ta ei? ev dv-
VTTocTTaTOv CIV Tiva 8vva/j,iv ea')(e Kara TroXe/Juov.
ME- Ilfti? yap ov ;
A0. TiS)<i ovv Koi irfi SttuXero ; dp ovk dîov
eTncrKOTrelv, TrjXiKOvrov koX toiovtov crvaTijfia

rjTi^ TTOre rv^V ^Le^deipev ;
ME. ^')(p\fi yap ovv hr] Tf<? dv dWocre ^
C (XKOTTCov fj v6fiov<; 7) TToXiTela^ dX\a<i Oedaano
(T(i)ôv<Ta<i KaXd koI /xeydXa Trpdy/xara rj Kal
TovvavTLOV 8ia<pOeipovaa<; to irapdrrav, el dfxe-
Xrjaeie tovtwv.
A0. ToOto jxev dpa, &)? eoiKev, evTV)(^M<; 7rco<i
ifjL^6^r]Ka/jL€v ye el? Tiva aKeyjriv iKav7]v.
ME. JJdvv [xev ovv.
A0. 'A/o' ovv, o) davfidate, XeXijOa/juev dv-
OpwiroL 7rdvTe<i, Kal rd vvv Br] rjixel^, olofievoL
fiev cKda-Tore tl KaXov opav irpdyp-a yevofxevov
Kal dav/naa-rd dv epyacrdp,€vov, el rt? dpa rîria-
Trjdrj KaXSi<i avrw %p?7crâi Kard Tiva rpoirov,
D TO 8e vvv ye r)/j,et<; Ttt%' dv laco^ irepl tovto avTo
OVT op6(a<i SiavoovfieOa ^ oi/re Kara (pvaiv, Kal
St] Kal irepl Ta dXXa 7rdvTe<; irdvTa irepl &v dv
ovTco 8iavo7)d(ocriv ;
^ iWoffe Ast, Badham : &\\o MSS.

198
LAWS, BOOK III
suited a number of diviners and, amongst others,

the Delphian Apollo?
MEG. That is certainly probable.
ATH. But it seems that these great expectations
speedily vanished, except only, as we said, in regard
to that small fraction, your State of Laconia and ;
ever since, up to the present day, this fraction has

never ceased warring against the other two. For
if the original intention had been realised, and if
they had been in accord about their policy, it would
have created a power invincible in war.
MEG. It certainly would.
ATH. How then, and by what means, was it
destroyed ? Is it not worth while to enquire by
what stroke of fortune so grand a confederacy was
wrecked ?
MEG. Yes for, if one passed over these examples,

;
one would not be likely to find elsewhere either laws

or constitutions which preserve interests thus fair
and great, or, on the contrary, wreck them totally.
ATH. Thus by a piece of good luck, as it
seems, we have embarked on an enquiry of some
importance.
MEG. Undoubtedly.
ATH. Now, my dear sir, do not men in general,
like ourselves at the present moment, unconsciously
fancy that every fine object they set eyes on would
produce marvellous results, if only a man understood
the right way to make a fine use of it ? But for us
to hold such an idea in regard to the matter before
us would possibly be both wrong and against nature ;
and the same is true of all other cases where men
hold such ideas.
^ Siavooifjif6a H. Richards : Stavooi/xcOa MSS.

PLATO
ME. Aeyet? 8e Brj ri, koL irepl rlvoî aoi (f)(a/j,€v
ficOuar etprjadai tovtov top \6<yov ;
A0. £i <yade, koI avrbf i/navrov vvv Srj
KareyeXaaa. dTTO/SXe-yjra^ yap Trpof tovtov tov
(TTokov ov Trepi SiaXeyofieOa, eSoê fioi wdyKaXof
T€ etvai Kal davfiaaTov <(at'> ^ KTrjpLa TrapaTreaelv
TOLs "EAAr^crti', oTTcp etrrov, et tis dpa avTw t6t€
E ixp^cciTO.
Kd\(ji)<;
ME. OvKovv ev Kal i)(^6vT(i)^ vovv <tv re irdvTa

€67769 Kal eTTrjvecra/xev rjfiel^ ;
A0. Icr&)9" ivvoS) ye ixrjv 0)9 7ra9 09 dv cStj ti
fieya Kal Svvafiiv e%ov 7roWr)V Kal poofirjv ev6v<i

CTraOe tovto, (09 eXirep iirlcnaLTO 6 K€KTr)/j,€vo<;
avT& ')(^pr]a0at toiovtw re ovti koI Trj\iKovT(p,
uavfiaaT av Kal TroWa KaTepya(rd/j,€vo<; evSai-
fiovoi.
687 ME. OvKovp opOov Kal tovto ; rj •jr&'i Xeyet? ;
A0. ZiKOTrei Bt) TTol ^Xeircov 6 tov eiraivov
tovtov irepl cKaaTOv Ti6i/j,evo<; 6p6oi<; \eyei.
TTp&Tov 8e irepl avTOv tov^ vvv Xeyo/nevov, 7rft)9,
el KaTa Tpoirov rjTnaTrjdrjcrav raât to aTpaTO-
ireSov oi TOTe 8iaKO(T/xovvTe<i, tov Katpov ir&i; dv
eTVXôv ; ap ovk el ^vveaTrjadv re da(jiaXS)<i avTO
Sieacoôv re 6t9 tov del %/c»oi'oi', wore avTov<; re
iXevdepov; eivai Kal dXXcov dp')(OVTa<; cov ôvXt)-
B delev, Kal oX,<w9 ev dvdpdtiroi'i irdat Kal 'îXX-qai
Kal âp^dpoLv ov tovtcov ydpiv eiraive-
veiev av
ME. Tldvv fiev ovv.
A0. 'A/j' ovv Kal 09 dv l8o)v ttXovtcv fieyav ^
^ <av> (after icrfjixa) C. J. Taylor.
* inaivedeUv OreJii, Ritter : emBvfioiev MSS.
200
LAWS, BOOK III
MEG What is it you mean ? And what shall we

say is the special point of yuur remarks ?
ATH. W'hy, my dear sir, I had a laugh at my
own expense now. For when 1 beheld this
just
armament of which we are speaking, I thought it
an amazingly fine thing, and that, if anyone had
made a fine use of it at that time, it would have
proved, as I said, a wonderful boon to the Greeks.
MEG. And was it not quite right and sensible of
you to say this, and of us to endorse it ?
ATH. Possibly I conceive, however, that every-
;
one, when he beholds a thing that is large, powerful

and strong, is instantly struck by the conviction
that, if its possessor knew how to employ an instru-
ment of that magnitude and quality, he could make
himself happy by many wonderful achievements.
MEG. Is not that a right conviction ? Or what is
your view ?
ATH. Just consider what one ought to have in

view in every instance, in order to justify the
bestowal of such praise. And first, with regard to the
—
matter now under discussion, if the men who were
then marshalling the army knew how to organise it
properly, how would they have achieved success?
Must it not have been by consolidating it firmly
and by maintaining it perpetually, so that they
should be both free themselves and masters over all
others whom they chose, and so that both they and
their children should do in general just what thev
pleased throughout the world of Greeks and
barbarians alike Are not these the reasons why
.''
they would be praised .''
MEG. Certainly.
ATH. And in every case where a man uses the
PLATO
rifj,a<i Bia<f)epouaa'i <yevov^ rj koX otiovp roiv
roiovTcov ravra raura, irpo^ tovto ^Xevcov
ecTTT}
enrev, ax; 8ia tovt avrw yevijaofiera (av av

eTriOvfifj irdvTa rj ra TrXeicra Kol ocra dîtOTura
Xoyov
ME. "FiOiKS <yovv.
C A0. êpe B'^, irdvTCdV dvdpcoircov earl KOivov
e7ri6v/j,r]ij,a ev Tt to vvv vtto tov Xoyov 8i]Xovfxevov
[co? avT6<; (j)7)aiv 6 X0709] ^
;
ME. To TTOtOV ;
A0. To KUTaTr]v T^9 avTov yf^vx^^ iiriTa^tv
ra yiyvofi^va ylyveadaL, fidXiara /nev CLTravra, el
Be fxi], rd ye dvOpcoTTiva.
ME. Tt P-1JV ;
A0. OvKovv ôuXo/xeda irdvTeî rb
eireiTrep
rotovrov del ovTe<; kuI dvBpe<; koX
iraiBef re
Trpear^vTat, tovt' avTo koI ev'ôip.ed^ av dvay-
Kaio)iXoiiXo9 p.ev vio<i irarpiy iral'i a)v dvBpL.
ME. 11609 B' ov ;
Ae. Kat fir)v (OV y 6 7rac<; ev'êrai, eavT(p
yiyveaOat, iroXXd 6 Trarrjp direvâiT dv TOi?
6eol<i p^rjBapco^ Kara rd'i rov vleo<i eu%a9 717-
veadai.
ME. "Orav dv6r]ro<; q)v koI en veo<; ev')(rjrai,
Xeyea
*[&)»... \6yos] bracketed by England (after Stallb.).
a 03
LAWS, BOOK III
language of eulogy on seeing great wealth or

eminent family distinctions or anything else of the
kind, would it not be true to say that, in using
it, he has this fact specially in mind, —
that the
possessor of such things is likely, just because of
this, to realise all, or at least the most and greatest,
of his desires.
MEG. That is certainly probable.
ATH. Q)me now, is there one object of desire
that now indicated by our argument —
which is
common to all men ?
MEG. What is that ?
ATH. The desire that, if possible, everything,
or failing that, all that is humanly possible should —
happen in accordance with the demands of one's
own heart.
MEG. To be sure.
ATH. Since this, then, is what we all wish always,
alike in childhood and manhood and old age, it is
for this, necessarily, that we should pray continually.
MEG. Of course.
ATH, Moreover, on behalf of our friends we will
join in making the same prayer which they make
on their own behalf.
MEG. To be sure.
ATH. And is a friend to his father, the boy
a son
to the man.
MEG. Certainly.
ATH. Yet the father will often pray the gods
that the things which the son pravs to obtain
may in no wise be granted according to the son's
prayers.
MEG. Do you mean, when the son who is praying
is still young and foolish ?
203
PLATO
A0. K.ai oTav ye 0)v yeptov rj kuI
6 irar-qp
E KaXcov kol roiv Bi/caifov
(T(f}o8pa veavia^, /xiiSeu rcov
yiyvoocTKCov, €v)(T}Tai fidXa '7rpodvp,(o<i iv nxadr)-
fiaaiv ahe\ôX<i (av xot? yevofiivoiii ©rjcret Trp6<i
Tov hv(nv')(^b)<i TeXevrrjcravTa 'linroXvrov, 6 he
irai^ ytyvcoaKT), rore, So/fet9, iralf irarpX avv-
evêrai
ME. Mavddvco \eyei<;. Xeyeiv yap jjlol SoKei'i
009 ov Tovro evKTeov ovSe eweiKreov, eireaOai
iravTU ry eavTOV ôvkrjaei, rrjv ôvXrjcrci' Se
[fjidWov^ ^ Ty eavTov ^povijaer tovto 8e
/jLT}8ev
Kol TToXiv KOI eva rjficbv e/caarov kol evjêaOai

helv Koi airevheiv, otto)? vovv eêi.
688 A0. Nat, Kal B^ kuI ttoXitlkov ye dvSpa vojxo-
Oerrjv ct)9 del 8ei Trpo^ tovto ^XeirovTa Tidevai
Ta9 Td^€iv tjv irapaKeXevfia
Xe')(6evTa, otl
609 ')(pea)v tov dyadov vo/jLodeTrjv irdvTa
eiT)
TToXe/jLOv ')(dpiv TO, vofiifia Tidevai, to 5' efiov

eXeyov otl tovto fiev 7rpo9 /niav dpeTrjv ova&v
TeTTapcov KeXevot TidecrOat toix; vofiovi, Seoi 8e
B 8t) 7rpo9 irdaav fiev ^Xeireiv, fidXiaTU he Kal
TTpo'i TrpMTrjv TTjv Trjp6vTjcn<; 8' vov<i Kal Boâ fieT
eirj tovto xal
epft)T09 T6 Kal tovtoi^ e7rofji,evT]<;.
e7ridv/j,ia<i ^Kei
8t) ttoXlv o X0709 649 TavTov, Kal 6 Xeyav 670)
vvv Xeyo) rrdXiv direp Tore, el fxev fiovXecrde, ai<i

^ [fj.a\Kov'\ I bracket (irokv /xaWov Schanz).
* Hippolytus was accused by his stepmotlier, Phaedra, of

attempting to dishonour her therefore his father (Theseus)
:
invoked a curse upon him, and Poseidon (father of Theseus)

304
LAWS, BOOK III
ATH. Yes, and also when the father, either

through age or through the hot temper of jouth,
being devoid of all sense of riglit and justice, indulges
in the vehement prayers of passion (like those of
Theseus against Hippolytus,^ when he met his luck-
less end), while the son, on the contrary, has a sense
of justice, —
in this case do you suppose that the son
will echo his father's prayers ?
MEG. I grasp your meaning. You mean, as I
suppose, that what a man ought to pray and press
for is not that everything should follow his own
desire, while his desire in no way follows his own
reason but it is the winning of wisdom that everyone
;
of us, States and individuals alike, ought to pray for

and strive after.
ATH. Yes. And what is more, I would recall to
your recollection, as well as to my own, how it was
said 2 (if you remember) at the outset that the
legislator of a State, in settling his legal ordinances,
must always have regard to wisdom. The injunction
you gave was that the good lawgiver must frame
all his laws with a view to war I, on the other
:
hand, maintained that, whereas by your injunction

the laws would be framed with reference to one
only of the four virtues, it was really essential to
look to the whole of virtue, and first and above
all to pay regard to the principal virtue of the four,
which is wisdom and reason and opinion, together
with the love and desire that accompany them.
Now the argument has come back again to the same
point, and 1 now repeat my former statement, in—
sent a bull which scared the horses of H.'s chariot so that
they upset the chariot and dragged him till he was dead.
» 63U D flF.
vou I. g 205
PLATO
Tralôiv, el h\ w? (nrovSdôyv, on hrj ^rjfit €u')(^[}
j(^prjcrdaL eivai vovv firj K€KTr}/u.ivov,
(T(j)a\epov
aXXa ravavTia Tat<; ôvXrjcreaiv ol lylyveaBai.
[a-TTovBdôvTa 5' et fie riOivac ôvXeade, rlOeTe-] ^
C TTavv fyap ovv irpoaSoKM vvv ufid^; evprjcreiv t&
\6ya> eivo[xevov<;, ov oXiyov e/jbTrpoadev irpovde-
fieOa, T779 Tftii/ âcTiXeicov ^ re (f)0opd<i koX 6\ov
Tov 8iavoi]/j,aTO^ ov Bei\[av ovcrav rrjv alriav,
ovK ore rd irepX tov iroXe/xov ovk rjiricyTavro
dp)(0VTe<i re kuI 01)9 TrpoarjKev apx^crdai, ttj
\oL'nfi he irdar] kukLu hu^dappieva, koI /xdXcaTa
TTj "TrepX rd pueyiGTa rcov dvd poiirivoiv irpaypLaroiv
dp,a0ia. ravr ovv 0)9 ovtw yeyove irepl rd rore

D Kal vvv, el irov, ylyverai, koX i<; rov eireira ^povov
OVK dXX(o<; (Tvp,^7]aeTai, idv ôvXrjcrOe, Treipda-ofiai
Icov Kard rov e^ri puev roivvv ere, Si êve, erraivelv
eTrax^^crrepov, epyw 8^ a<po8pa irraiveaopeOa'
TTpodvpiM^ ydp rol<; ^ irraivoiv Kal p,r) p,dXi(rrd
eari Karacfâvij'i.
ME. "Kpiar, w KXeivia, Kal rroccopev a Xeyei^.
E KA. "Rarai, ravr a, idv 6eo<; edeXr). Xeye piovov.
A0. âp,ev 8rj vvv, Kad' 68ov I6vreVK€vat irocelv, toare rov ye vop,o6errjv, el
rov6' ovrQ)<i e%€<, rreipareov ral^ rroXecn (ppovrja-iv
1 [a-irovSdCoi'Ta . . . TlBere] I bracket (after England's

conj.).
206
LAWS, BOOK III
jest, if youwill, or else in earnest I assert thai ;
prayer a perilous practice for him who is devoid

is
of reason, and that what he obtains is the opposite
of his desires. For I certainly expect that, as you
follow the argument recently propounded, you will
now discover that the cause of the ruin of those
kingdoms, and of their whole design, was not
cowardice or ignorance of warfare on the part
either of the rulers or of those who should have
been their subjects but that what ruined them was
;
badness of all other kinds, and especially ignorance

concerning the greatest of human interests. That
this was the course of events then, and is so still,
whenever such events occur, and will be so likewise
in the future, —
this, with your permission, 1 will
endeavour to discover in the course of the coming
argument, and to make it as clear as I can to you,
my very good friends.
CLIN. Verbal compliments are in poor taste,
Stranger; but by deed, if not by word, we shall pay
you the highest of compliments by attending eagerly
to your discourse and that is what best shows
;
whether compliments are spontaneous or the reverse.

MEG. Capital, Clinias Let us do just as you say.
!
CLIN. It shall be so, God willing. Only say on.

ATH. Well then, to advance further on the track
of our discourse, —
we assert that it was ignorance,
in its greatest form, which at that time destroyed
the power we have described, and which naturally
))roduces still the same results and if this is so, it ;
follows that the lawgiver must try to implant in
^ 0a(Ti\(iui> Boeckh, Schanz : 0a(Tt\4a>y MSS.

* (\fv0f pais Ast, Schanz : iXtidtpos MSS.
207
ni M PLATO
fiev ocn-jv Svvarbv iixiroielv, ttjv S' dvoiav oti
fiaXiara eâipelv.
KA. ArjXov.
689 A0. Tfc9 ovv r) fieylcrTT) hiKaio)<;av Xeyoiro
cbfiauLa ; cr/coTretTe et a-vvSoêc koI acjiwv \ey6-
fievov iyo} fiev Stj rrjv roidvSe Tidefiai.
KA. TIoLav
A0. Trjv orav hoâv koKov rj dyaOov
Ta> ri
eivai fiT) (piXfj TOVTO, dWd
i^'tafi, to Se Trovrjpov
Kal dBiKov BoKovv elvai (piXrj re koI dcnrdîjrai.
TavTTjv rr)V Siacpcovlav Xinrrj^ re Kal r)Bovri<; 7rpo;^'> ^ jueyiaTTjv Be, oti tov frXriOovi
B ecrrl t^? yjrvxi]^' to yap XvTrovfievov Kal r/Bofievov
avT'fj(; oTTep Brifi6<i re Kal TrXrjdo<; 7r6Xe(t)<; ecrTtv.
brav ovv €7n(7Tr]fiai<i rj Xoyw ivavTiwTai,
rj Boâi<i
TO?? (f)va€i. '^^XV'^^ tovto dvoiav
dp)(iKoi<;, [^
irpoaayopeixo, TroXeco? re, OTav dp-)(ovcn Kal v6/J.oi<;
fjLT) TreidrjTat to TrXrjdof;, Tavrov, Kal Brj Kal ei'o?
dvBpos, OTTOTav KaXol iv "^vxfl Xoyoi ev6vTe<;
/iirjBev irXeov, dXXd Brj TovToi<i irdv tov-
TTOtcbcri
C vavTLOv. TavTa I add.

*
iv '/'"Xîl bracketed by Badham.
* In this comparison between the Soul and the State both
are regarded as consisting of two parts or elements, the ruling

and the ruled, of which the former is the noblest, but the
latter the " greatest " in bulk and extent. The ruling element
in the Soul is Reason {vois, \6yos), and in the Stale it is Law
308
LAWS. BOOK HI
States as mucli wisdom as possible, and to root out
tolly to the utmost of his power,
CLIN. Obviously.
ATH. What kind of ignorance would deserve to
be called the "greatest".'' Consider whether you
will agree with my description I take it to be
;
ignorance of this kind,

CLIN. What kind ?
ATH. That which we see in the man who hates,
instead of loving, what he judges to be noble and
good, while he loves and cherishes what he judges to
be evil and unjust. That want of accord, on the
part of the feelings of pain and pleasure, with the
rational judgment is, I maintain, the extreme form
of ignorance, and also the "greatest" because it
belongs to the main mass of the soul, for the part—
of the soul that feels pain and pleasure corresponds
to the mass of the populace in the State. ^ So when-
ever this part opposes what are by nature the
ruling principles —
knowledge, opinion, or reason,
this condition I call folly, whether it be in a State,
when the masses disobey the rulers and the laws, or
in an individual, when the noble elements of reason
existing in the soul produce no good effect, but
quite the contrary. All these I would count as the
most discordant forms of ignorance, whether in the
State or the individual, and not the ignorance of the
artisan, —
if you grasp my meaning. Strangers.
{yo fios) a.nd its exponents : the subject element in the Soul
consists of sensations, emotions and desires, which (both in
bulk and in irrationality) correspond to the mas-s of the volgiis
in the State. Plato's usual division of the Soul is into three
parts,— reason (rovs), passion {8vfi.6s), and desire (ixtdufila) :
cp. Hep. 435 AT.
aog
PLATO
KA. âvddvojxev re, w <piX€, Kal ffvy^topovfiep
a Xe7ei9.
A0. Tovro fiev toLvvv ovtco Keicrdw SeSoy/jievov
Kal XeXejfievov,^ to? rot? ravr afiaOaivovai tS)v
TTokLTOiv ovhev eimpeTTreov ap^T]'; e-)(op,evov koI
(U9 afia6e(riv oveiBiareov, av koX ttuvv XoyiaTiKol
re cjcri koI irdvTa to. KOfjLyJra Kal oaa tt/jo? Ta^ô?
D Tfj^ (To<f>ovi\ot,, dvev ^vp,(f>(ovia(ovi(t)v jxeyiar'q SiKaiorar^ av Xeyoiro (TO<j>ia,
tJ? Kara Xoyov ^wv fiiroô^, 6 S' aTroXei-

o fxev
E oiKO^dopo^ Kal Trepl iroXiv ovhafifj aca-
Trtj/iei/o?
Ttjp dXXd ndv Tovvavrlov dfxaOaivwv eh ravra

eKdarore (âvelrai. ravra fiev ovv, KaOaTrep
eXirofiev dpri, XeXeyfieva redrjroi ravrr).
KA. Ketffêo yap ovv.
A0. "Apxovra<; he 8r) Kal dp-)(ô/j,6vov<i dvayKalov
iv ral^ TToXeaiv elvai irov.
KA. Tt p,rjv ;
690 A0. Kiev dîd)fiara

Be Br) rov re dpêcv Kal
dp)(e(T6ai eari Kal iroaa, ev re iroXeai
TTold
fi6ydXai<i Kal afiLKpal^ ev re olKiais waavrcot
dp ov-)(l ev fiev ro re rrarpo^ Kal /nrjrpo^, koI
6Xco<; yovea<i eKyovwv dpx^tv dîco/jia opdov
iravra-ôv dv efr}
* XfXcYHivov Badham : Key6fxfvov MSS. (bracketed by

Schanz).
2XO
LAWS, BOOK III
CLIN. We
do, my dear sir, and we agree with it.
ATH. Then let it be thus resolved and declared,
that no control shall be entrusted to citizens thus
ignorant, but that they shall be held in reproach for
their ignorance, even though they be expert calcu-
lators, and trained in all accomplishments and in
everything that fosters agility of soul, while those
whose mental condition is the reverse of this shall
—
be entitled "wise," even if as the saying goes
" they spell not neither do they swim" ^ and to these :
latter, as to men of sense, the government shall be

entrusted For without harmony ,2 my friends, how
could even the smallest fraction of wisdom exist?
It is impossible. But the greatest and best of
harmonies would most properly be accounted the
greatest wisdom and therein he who lives rationally
;
has a share, whereas he who is devoid thereof will

always prove to be a home- wrecker and anything
rather than a saviour of the State, because of his
ignorance in these matters. So let this declaration
stand, as we recently said, as one of our axioms.
CLIN. Yes, let it stand.
ATH. Our States, I presume, must have rulers
and subjects.
CLIN. Of course.
ATH. Very well then what and how many are
:
the agreed rights or claims in the matter of ruling

and being ruled, alike in States, large or small, and
in households not the right of father and
' Is
mother one of them.^ And in general would not
the claim of parents to rule over offspring be a claim
universally just .''
^ i.e. are ignorant of even the most ordinary accomplish-

ments. » Cp. Hep. 430 E 591 D.
;
211
PLATO
KA. Kai fMoXa.
A0. TovTfp 0€ ye eTro/nevop yevvaiov^ ayevvwv
ap-)(etv' KoX rpiTOv en tovtol<; ^vveveTat to
Trpea^vTepov^ fiev ap-)(eiv Setv, vewrepovî Se
ap-)(eadai.
KA. Tt iJbrjV ;
B A0. Teraprov B av SovXav; fiev dp'xêadai,
SecnroTaî Se ap')(eiv.
KA. Ilai? yap ov ;
A0. TVepiTTrov ye, o2p.ai, top Kpeirrova fiev

ap-)(eiv, TOP r'jTTQ) Se dpyeaOai.
KA. Ma\a ye avayKaiav dp)(^r)p eipr]Ka<;.
A©. Kal TrXelarrjp ye ev ^vp^jracn rot? ^(ooi9 eoLxep, d^Lwp-a
IlLpBapo<;.
CKTOP av yiypoLTO, eireadai fiev top ape7ri(TT7]fiopa
Ke\evop, TOP 8e (fipopovpra qyeladai re kuI dpyêip.
C Kai TOi TOVTo ye, o) TiLpSape (To^wrare, cr^êSop
ovK av irapa (^vcrip e7&)7e <âirip ytypeadai, Kara
(pvaiv Be TTjv Tov p6p,ov eKovrcov dp^Tjp dXX' ov
îaiop ire^vKvlap.
KA. ÔpOoTara \eyei9.
A0. ©eotpiXr} Be ye Kai evTV')(rj ripd Xeyopref
e/3B6p,r]P dp-x^Tjp ei<? KXrjpop riva 7rpodyop,ep koI
Xaôvra p,ep dp^^tp, BvaKXrjpovPTa Be diTLoPTa
dpxêfrdat to BtKacorarop eipal (f)a/j,€P.
^
KA. AXt) dear ar a \€yei<;.
D A0. Opa? Brj, <paip,ep dv, w vo/iodera, vrpo?
Tipa TraiôPTe^ roop Oecrip loprcop
irrl yofiayv
paBiod^, ocra earl rrepl ^ dpxopra<; d^cco/xara Kai
* irtpl Madvig, Schanz: wpbs MSS.
212
LAWS, BOOK ill
cuN. Certainly. to
ATK. And next to this, the right of the noble l6
rule over the ignoble ; and then, following on these
as a third claim, the right of older people to rule
and of younger to be ruled.
CUN. To be sure.
ATH. The fourth right is that slaves ought to be
ruled, and masters ought to rule.
CLIN. Undoubtedly.
ATH. And the
fifth is, I imagine, that the stronger
should rule and the weaker be ruled.
CUN. A truly compulsory form of rule !
ATH. Yes, and one that is very prevalent among

all kinds of creatures, being "according to nature,"
as Pindar of Thebes once said.^ The most important
right is, it would seem, the sixth, which ordains that
the man without understanding should follow, and
the wise man lead and rule. Nevertheless, my most ^>^
sapient Pindar, this is a thing that 1, for one, would
hardly assert to be against nature, but rather accord-
—
ing thereto the natural rule of law, without force,
over willing subjects.
CUN. A very just observation.
ATH. Heaven's favour and good-luck mark the
seventh form of rule, where we bring a man forward
for a casting of lots, and declare that if he gains the
lot he will most justly be ruler, but if he fails he
shall take his place among the ruled.
CLIN. Very true.
" Seest thou, O legislator," it is thus we
ATH. —
might playfully address one of those who lightly
start on the task of legislation " how many are —
the rights pertaining to rulers, and how they are
' Cp. Gcrrgias 484 B TllvZapos . . . \tyei on NoVoi . • .
213
PLATO
OTi ire^vKOja iTpo<i aWrfKa ivavria)^ ; vvv yap
Br} (TTciaeayv Trrjyqif riva avevpr}Kap.ev ^y
ri/xei<;,
Bel (T€ depaireveiv. Trpcorov Be fieO^ r}p,S)v avd-

(TKe'âi TTfti? TC Kat n
irapa ravra afiapTQVTev Bvvafiiv ovaav dav-
E fiaarrjv ev Ta> Tore 'x^povto Biecfideipav. ap' ovk
a'yvoi']<TavTe<; rov 'HaioBov opdoTura Xeyovra d)<i
TO rjp,i(TV rov iravro'i ttoX-Xuki^ earl irXeov
{oTTorav y to fiev oXov Xa/x^dveiv ^rip,i(oB€<i, to
B r]fjLLcrv fierpiov, Tore to pueTptov tov dpberpov
irXeov i)yr\(TaTO, dp.eivov ov 'xêipovoS'^ ^
KA. ÔpdoTUTa ye.
A0. UoTepov ovv olofieda irepl âaiXea eKdcrrore BcacpOetpeiv Trporepov rj
ev Totcn 07]/LL0i<i ;
691 KA. To puev eiKo^ ax; ^ to ttoXv âcriXecov tovto

elvai v6(Tr}fia vTreprjcfxivcaf i^covTcov Bid Tpu(f)d^.
A0. OvKOvv BrjXov ft)? TTproTOv tovto ol Tore
âacXrj<i ea')(ov, to irXeoveKTelv t&v TeOevTwv
vop.(ov, Koi o X6y(p Te Kal opxip eirrivecrav, ov
^vvef^ciivrjaav avToi<i, dXX' rj Biac^xovia, tw? 'qpieZt
(f)ap,iv, ovaa dixadia pLeylcrrrj, BoKovaa Be cro(f)La,
irduT eKelva Bia 7rXr]/xp,eXeiav xal dpuovaiav ttjv
ircKpdv Bie(f)6eipev ;
KA. "Eof/ce yovv.
B A0. EZei'" Tt Brj TOV vofwOeTTjv eBec rore
TidevTa evXa^Tjdrjvat, tovtov Trepl tov irddov;
T% yeveaeco^ ; dp" o) trpo^ 9eu)V vvv p,ev ovBev
* [inSrav . . .
x^h°'">'^ bracketed by Hermann, Schanz.
» ws : Kal MSS. : ewl Badham.
214
LAWS, BOOK 111
essentially opposed to one another? Herein we

have now
discovered a source of factions, which thou
must remedy. So do thou, in the first place, join
with us in enquiring how it came to pass, and owing
to what transgression of those rights, that the kings
of Argos and Messene brought ruin alike on them-
selves and on the Hellenic power, splendid as it was
at that epoch. Was it not through ignorance of
that most true saying of Hesiod ^ that ' oftimes the
"
half is greater than the whole ? '
CLIN. Most true, indeed.

ATH. Is it our view, then, that this causes ruin
when it is found in kings rather than when found in
peo{)les ?
CLIN. Probably this is, in the main, a disease of

kings, in whom luxury breeds pride of life.
ATH. Is it not plain that what those kings strove
for first was to get the better of the established
laws, and that they were not in accord with one
another about the pledge which they had approved
both by word and by oath and this discord re-
; —
puted to be wisdom, but really, as we affirm, the
—
height of ignorance, owing to its grating dissonance
and lack of harmony, brought the whole Greek world
to ruin ?
CLIN. It would seem so, certainly.

ATH. Very well then what precaution ought the
:
legislator to have taken at that time in his enact-

ments, to guard against the growth of this disorder?
Verily, to perceive that now requires no great sagacity,
^ Cp. Op. Z*. ff. ; Eef. 466 C.

38 the meaning is that when
:
"the whole" excessive, the moderate " h^lf " is prefer-

is
able ; this maxim being here applied to excesses of political
power.
215
PLATO
cro(f>ov yvMvai tovto ovB' elfrelv âXeTTOv, el
Se Trpolhelv rjv Tore, (To<pd>repoiaTepov ere \eye.
A0. To roivvv cra(f)eo-rarov av el'r] ro roiovBe.
ME. To irolov ;
C A0. 'Eav fietôva St8^

ri<i rot? iXdrroac
Bvva/JLiv Trapelf ro p,erpiov, TrXotoL^; re larria koX
auyjxaai rpo(pr}v koX ylrvyâl<; ap^d<;, dvarperrera't
rrov TTavra Kal e^v^piôvfa rd fxev ei9 voaovs
del, rd B' eh eKyovov v^pe(o<i dhiKiav. ri ovv
Brj TTore \eyop,ev ; dpd ye ro roiovSe, eo? ovk ear,
Si (f)i,Xot dvBpe<;, Ovr)rrj<: '^v^^rj'; ûo"^? ^ri<j irore

Suvijaerai rrjv fieylarrrjv ev dv0p(O7roc<; dp-^rjv
(fyepetv via kuI dvvirevdvvo^, ware fir] tt)? /jLeyLarr]<;
D voaov dvoLadvLaev avrrj ^ rore yevbfxevov vvv eari fierpitorara
roTrdaai, roS" eoiKev etvai.

ME. To TTOlOV ;
A0. %e6<; rjv irpoiTov ^ KrfB6/jievo<t vficov Tt?, 09
TO [xeXXovra irpoopSiv, Bihufiov iifiiv (f)vrevaa^
^ <rh> added by Ast.

* ^y TTiJciTov : flvat MSS. : flrf hv Schanz.
916
LAWS, BOOK III
nor is it a hard thing to declare ; but the man who

—
foresaw it in tliose days it'it could possibly have been
foreseen— would have been a wiser man than we.
MEG. To what are you alluding.''
ATH. If one looks at what has happened, Megillus,
among you Lacedaemonians, it is easy to perceive,
and after perceiving to state, what ought to have
been done at that time.
MEG. Speak still more clearly,
ATH. The clearest statement would be this
MEG. What .''
ATH. If one neglects the rule of due measure,

and gives things too great in power to things too
small— sails to ships, food to bodies, offices of rule
to souls — then everything is upset, and they run,
through excess of insolence, some to bodily dis-
orders, others to that offspring of insolence, injustice.^
What, then, is our conclusion? Is it not this?
There does not exist, my friends, a mortal soul
whose nature, when young and irresponsible, will
ever be able to stand being in the highest ruling
position upon earth without getting surfeited in
mind with that greatest of disorders, folly, and
earning the detestation of its nearest friends and ;
when this occurs, it speedily ruins the soul itself

and annihilates the whole of its power. To guard
against this, by perceiving the due measure, is the
task of the great lawgiver. So the most duly reason-
able conjecture we can now frame as to what took
place at that epoch appears to be this
MEG. Wliat?
ATH. To begin with, there was a god watching
over you and he, foreseeing the future, restricted
;
Cp. Soph. O.T. 873 : v0pts <pvTfv(t rvpavvav.

217
iii > PLATO
E T^v Tcov âaiXecov yeveacu e/c fiovoy€vov<;, ct? to
/M€Tpcov fidWov (Tvviareike. kov fiera tovto en
(f>vai<; Tt? avdpwirivri /xefiiyfievt) Oeia tcvI Swd/xei,
Kanhovcra vficov rrjv dp^^v
(^\eyp,aivov(Tav €Ti,
fiiyvvat rrjv Kara yrjpa^
croi^pova hvvafiiv rfj
692 KaTct yevo<i avddhei ptofjiiJ, ttjv tcov oktoh koI
€LKoai yepovrav la-oyfrrjcfiov et? rd iMeyiara rfj tmv
âaiXewv TToirjcraaa Svvdfiei. 6 Se Tpiro<; awrr^p
Vfilv eVt cnrapySxrav kol Ovfiov/xivrjv rrjv dp')(r)v
opwv olov <\rd\iov eveâXev avrfj rrjv tmv i(f)6p(0V
hvvajXLv, 6771)9 T^f K\r)p(iiTr)<i dyayoov 8uvd/iie(i}<;.
Kol Kara 8r} tovtov top Xoyov 77 fiaaiXeia Trap"
vfiiv, e^ Q}V eBet <TVfi/j,iKTO<! yevofiivr} Kal fxeTpov
eyovaa, awOelcra avrrj aeorrjplaf; roi^ dWoi^
B yeyovev alrla' iireX iiri ye Trj/Lcevo) Kal K.pea(f>6vTT)
Kol TOt? Tore vopbo6€Tai<;, OLTive^
6pK0i<; peTptdarai \lrv')(^r)v veav Xaôvaav dpyrjv
e^ ^<i Bvvarov rjv Tvpavvlha yeveadai. vvv h 6
6€0<i eSeiêv oiav eSei Kal Set Brj rrjv fievoixrav
p,d\i(TTa dp')(riv yiyveadai. to 8e irap rjfjLtov
C yiyvcocTKeadai Tavra, OTrep ehrov efiirpoadev, vvv
fxev yevofMevov ovSev (toôv e'/c yap TrapaBety-
lxaTO<i opdv yeyovoTO^ ovhev 'xaKeirov. ei S' rjv
^ (JipKeivy I add {fjLfrpidiTat h.v H. Richards).
' Lycurgus.
• Theopompus, king of Sparta about 750 B.C. Tiie institu-
tion of the Ephorate is by some ascribed to him (as here),
by others to Lycurgus. Cp. Arist. Pol. 1313* 19 fiF.
» See 683 D.
218
LAWS, BOOK III
within due bounds the royal power by making your

kingly line no longer single but twofold. In the
next place, some man,^ in whom human nature was
blended with power divine, observing your govern-
ment to be still swollen with fever, blended the self-
willed force of the royal strain with the temperate
potency of age, by making the power of the eight-
and-twenty elders of equal weight with that of the
kings in the greatest matters. Then your " third
saviour," * seeing your government still fretting and
fuming, curbed it, as one may say, by the power of
the ephors, which was not far removed from govern-
ment by lot. Thus, in your case, according to this
account, owing to its being blended of the right
elements and possessed of due measure, the kingship
not only survived itself but ensured the survival of
all else. For if the matter had lain with Temenus
and Cresphontes ^ and the lawgivers of their day
whosoever those lawgivers really were, even the —
portion of Aristodemus * could never have survived,
for they were not fully expert in the art of legisla-
tion otherwise they could hardly have deemed it
;
sufficient to moderate by means of sworn pledges^

a youthful soul endowed with power such as might
develop into a tyranny but now God has shown of
;
what kind the government ought to have been then,

and ought to be now, if it is to endure. That we
should understand this, after the occurrence, is as —
I said before
® —
no great mark of sagacity, since it
is by no means difficult to draw an inference from an
example in the past; but if, at the time, there had
* i.e. Lacedaiemon : Aristodemus was father of Eurya-
thenes and Piocles (cp. 68-3 D).
<•
Cp. 684 A • 691 B.
3iq
PLATO
Tt9 wpoopoiv Tore ravra koX 8vvdfi€vo<; fierpidcrai
Ta<? dp')(â<i Kal fiiav €k rpiSiv "jroirja-ai, rd re
vorjdivTa ctv KaXa Tore irdvra dirkaoiae. koX ovk
av TTore 6 IlepcrtAco? €7rl Tr^v 'EXXaSa ouS' aXko^
ovSelî Q-ToXo? av cop/j.r)cre, KaTa(j)povrjaaTe<; ye

ol Tore Kal Kara yrjv Kal Kara OdXarrav Ka\a<i
veviKrjKaai /xd'^â^' aXX' o (prj/xi alcrxpov tot'
etvai roSe Xeyco, ro irpSyrov fiev eKelvcov rojv
TToXecov rpiMV ovcrcov fxiav vrrep rri<i 'EXXa8o<f
d/jLvvai, roi 8e hvo /ca/cw? ovrco<; elvai 8ie<f)0ap/x€va,
axrre tj fxev Kal AaKeSaifiova 8c€K(o\v€V eTrajivveiv
avrfi, TToXefiovcra avrfj Kara Kpdro<;, rj 8' av
Trpcorevovaa iv rore ')(p6voi<; TOt"? Trepl rrjv
roi<;
E 8iavop7]v, Tj irepl ro "Ap709, TrapaKaXov/xivr) dfiv-
veiv rov ^dpâpov ov6^ viTrjKOVcTev ovr r)p,vve.
TToXka he \eyo3V dv ri<; rd rore yevofieva irepX
eKelvov rov iroXe/xov t% 'EXXaSo9 ovhap.o)<i euo-^?)-
pLova dv KarrjyopoLT]' ouS' av dp^vvaadai rrjv ye
'FiWdha Xeywv opdoiî dv \eyoc, tlXX' el p,T] ro re
693 Âdrjvaicov Kal ro AaKehaip,ovi(ov koivtj hiavotipa
rjp.vve rrjv eniovaav SovXecav, cr'Xêhov dv r)hr]
rrdvr^ rjv p,epiiyp,eva rd rcov 'EiXki]VQ)v yevrj iv
dWrfkoLii Kal ^dp/3apa ev " îXkrjcn Kal '^Wr^viKa
iv âp^dpoi^, Kaddnrep wv Tlepaai rvpavvovai rd
vvv hiaireôprjpeva kol ^vpTvecfioprjpei'a KaKS><;
* Messene.
9eo
LAWS, BOOK III
been anyone who foresaw the result and was able to

moderate the ruling powers and unify them, such —
a man would have preserved all the grand designs
then formed, and no Persian or other armament
would ever have set out against Greece, or held us
in contempt as a people of small account.
CLIN. True.
ATH. The way they repulsed the Persians, Clinias,
was disgraceful. But when I say "disgraceful," I
do not imply that they did not win fine victories
both by land and sea in those victorious campaigns
M-hat I call "disgraceful" is this, — that, in the first
place, one only of those three States defended
Greece, while the other two were so baselv corrupt
that one of them^ actually prevented Lacedaemon
from assisting Greece by warring against her with
all its might, and Argos, the other, which stood —
first of the three in the days of the Dorian settle-
ment — when summoned to help against the bar-
barian, paidno heed and gave no help.^ Many are
the discreditable charges one would have to bring
against Greece in relating the events of that war;
indeed, it would be wrong to say that Greece de-
fended herself, for had not the bondage that
threatened her been warded off by the concerted policy
of the Athenians and Lacedaemonians, practically
all the Greek races would have been confused
together by now, and barbarians confused with
Greeks and Greeks with barbarians, just as the
races under the Persian empire to-day are either
—
scattered abroad or jumbled together and live in a
• Cp. Hdt. vii. 148 fiF. The reference is to the Persian

invasion under Mardonius in 490 B.C.; but there is no other
evidence for the charge here made against Messene.
221
PLATO
i<f)6apfi€va ^ KaroiKelrai. TavT\ co KXeivla Koi
MeyiWe, t€ iroXai rrroXi-
eôfiev iTnri/jbav toi<;
riKol<; Xeyofiivot^; /cal vo/jioO€rai<; koX Tot? vvv,
iva ra<i alrla'i avrwv aval^r)rovvre<i avevptcTKcofiev
B Tt irapa ravra eSet irpdrreiv dWo, olov Brj koI to
irapov eo? dpa ov Set p,eyd\a<i dp')(a<i
elirofiev,
ovh^ dfiLKTOV^ vo/xodereiv, 8tavor}0evTa<: ro
av
TOiovSe, oTi TToXiv iXevOepav re eivai 8ei koI
€fi(j)pova Kal eavTJ] (f)iXi]v, koi tov vopôOeTovvra
Trpo^ ravra ^Xerrovra hel vofiodereiv. p.T] 6av-
fid<T(OfM€v Se el iroXXaKif rjSrj Trpode/xevoi arra
elp-qicaixev on ravra Set vo/xoderetv ySX-e-
Trpo<;
C TTovra rov rd Be irporedevra ov ravra
vofio6€r>]V,
rj/jilv âtverai eKdarore' dXX' dvaXajLêaOai XPV>
orav [7rpo<i ro crcDcfipoveiv] ^ (pcofiev Beiv fiXeireiv
\rj] 7rpo<i (hp6vr](Tii' 'fj cfiiXiav, a)9 ecr^' ovro^ o
(TKOTTOf ouY er€po<i, axx avro<; Kai aKKa orj
voXXd j;/xa? roiavra dv yiyvr^rat pij/xara, /xt]
Btaraparrirco.
KA. UeipaaofieOa Troielv ovrco^ eTravLovre^; rov}? (pcXtaf re Kai
^povrjaeaxi Kal e\ev6epia<i, rrpo<i 6 ri ôvXopevov^
epe\Xe<; Xeyeiv Selv aroxdêadai rov vofioderrjv,
D Xeye.
^'
A0. Akovcov Br} vvv. elaX iroXtretoiV olov

Bvo rive^, e^ mv rd^ dXXa<i yeyovevai
/j,r]repe<i
Xiywv dv rt? 6pO(o0ap/xtva : fffirap^fVa MSS. (bracketed by Cobet, Schanz).
232
LAWS, BOOK III
miserable plight. Such, O

Megillus and Clinias, are
the charges we have to make
against the so-called
statesmen and lawgivers, both of the past and of the
present, in order that, by investigating their causes,
we may discover what different course ought to have
been pursued just as, in the case before us, we
;
called it a blunder to establish by law a government

that is great or unblended, our idea being that a
State ought to be free and wise and in friendship
with itself, and that the lawgiver should legislate
with a view to this. Nor let it surprise us that,
while we have often already proposed ends which
the legislator should, as we say, aim at in his legis-
lation, the various ends thus proposed are apparently
different. One needs to reflect that wisdom and
friendship,when stated to be the aim in view, are
not really different aims, but identical and, if we ;
meet with many other such terms, let not this fact
disturb us.
CLIN. We
shall endeavour to bear this in mind
as we
traverse the arguments again. But for the
moment, as regards friendship, wisdom and freedom,
— tell us, what was it you intended to say that the
lawgiver ought to aim at .''
ATH. Listen. There are two mother-forms of

constitution, so to call them, from which one may truly
say all the rest are derived. Of these the one is
properly termed monarchy, the other democracy,
the extreme case of the former being the Persian
}X)lity, and of the latter the Athenian the rest are
;
* [iTuorrh ffauppofuy] bracketed by Schanz the following

:
[fl] is absent from the best MSS.

* BovKofifvov fiovK6fji(voi MSS. (bracketed by Badbam,
:
Schanz).
933
;
^
PLATO
elirov, €K Tovrwu elal 8iaTr€rrroiKi\fievat. Set 8r]
ovv Kot avajKalov /xeraXaêiv afi(f)Ocv rovrotv,

€irrep eXevdepia r earat kuI ^tXia fxera tppovrj-
E creft)?' hrj ôvXerac rj/xiv o X6'yo<; TrpocrrdTTeiv,
Xeyojv a)9ovk dv ttotc tovtcov 7t6Xi<; dôtpo<;
yevofievT] iToXiTevdrjvai SvvaiT^ av KaX(t)<i.
KA. lift)? yap dv ;
A0. 'H p,ev Toivvv TO fjLOvapxifcov, rj Se ro

eXevdepov dyaTrrjaacra fieiôvo)^ rj eSet fxovov,
ovherepa ra fieTpia KeKrrjrai tovtcov al Be vfie-
Tepat, Tj T€ AaKcopiKT) kuI KpijTiKi], /xaXXov.
A6r]valoL he koI Tlepaai to fiev irdXai, ovtco
'
694 TTft)?, TO vvv Be rjTTOv. TO. ^' aiTia SieXdco/jtev.
KA. nai^TO)?, et ye ttov fj,eXXo/xeu o irpovOefieda

irepalveiv.
A0. ÂKOvayfiev Srj. Tlepaat yap ore /xev to
fieTpiov pbdXXov SofXeia? re /cat eXevdepia^ rjyov
enl Ky/jou, irpMTov fiev eXevdepoi eyeuoPTo, eireiTa
Be dXX(ov TToXXciyv BeaTTOTai. eXevdepim yap
dp'xôvTe^, fj,€TaBi,86vTe<i dp-)(OfJLevoL<i koI eirl to
I'crov dyovTe^ fidXXov (fytXoi, re rjcrav (TTpaTioiTai
B aTpaTt]yot<; koX 7rpodvfiov 619 Ti Bvvafievov<; avfiôvXeveiv,
Koivrjv Trjv tov (f)povecv et? to fiecrov 7rap€t,')(êTo
Bvvafiiv, Kal irdvTa Brj tots eireBcoKev avTolq BC
eXevdepiav Te Kal (f)iXi.av /cat vov Koivwviav.
1 Cp. 756 E ; Arist. Pol. 12G6* 1 S.
334
LAWS, BOOK HI
practically all, as I said, modificatioiis of these two.
Now it is essential for a polity to partake of both
these two forms, if it is to have freedom and friend-
liness combined with wisdom. And that is what
our argument intends to enjoin, when it declares
that a State which does not partake of these can
never be rightly constituted.^
CLIN. It could not.
ATH. Since the one embraced monarchy and the
other freedom, unmixed and in excess, neitiier of
them has either in due measure your Laconian and
:
Cretan States are better in this respect, as were the

—
Athenian and Persian in old times in contrast to
their present condition. Shall we expound the
reasons for this ?
CLIN. —
By all means that is if we mean to complete
the task we have set ourselves.
ATH. Let us attend then. When the Persians,
under Cyrus, maintained the due balance between
slavery and freedom, they became, first of all, free
themselves, and, after that, masters of many others.
For when the rulers gave a share of freedom to their
subjects and advanced them to a position of equality,
the soldiers were more friendly towards their officers
and showed their devotion in times of danger and ;
if there was any wise man amongst them, able to

give counsel, since the king was not jealous but
allowed free speech and respected those who could
—
help at all by their counsel, such a man had the
opportunity of contributing to the common stock
the fruit of his wisdom. Consequently, at that
time all their affairs made progress, owing to their
freedom, friendliness and mutual interchange of
reason.
225
PLATO i I
KA. '
EoiKe ye tto)? to, Xeyo/jieva ovra> yeyovivai.
C Ae. n^ 8r) ovv trore aTTcoXero iirl Ka/jL^vaov
Koi iraXiv errX Aapeiov ayehov eacoOrj ; ôvXeade
olov fxavreia SiavorjOevre<; 'X^poofieda ;
KA. <t>€p€t yovv Tj/j-iv (TKeyfriv tov 7' ^ e^' onep
(app,i]Kapev.
A0. M.avTevofiai hrj vvv irepi ye Kvpov ra p.ev
aW' avTOV (rrparr^yov re ayaOov elvai koi <f)iX6-
iroXiv, TraiSeiwi Se 6p6fj^ ov^ rj(f)6ai to irapaTTav
olKovofiia re ov8ev tov vovv tt poaecr'X^riKevac.
KA. Ilco? 8r] TO ToiovTov (f)(ii)fiep ;

D A0. "RoiKev e/c veov crTpaTeveadai Sia ^lov,
Tat9 yvvai^l rrapahoveiv, al Se
ft)<f evhaipLOva^ avTOv<; ck twv iraihwv evOv<; koi
fiaKapiov^ ijSr) yeyovoTat; koX €7riBeei? ovcnv
iKav(o<; ev8aip>ocn p.rjTe avToU evavTiovadai firj-
8eva et? pi,T)8€v, irraiveiv re dvayKdôuaai <7rdv>^
iravTa^ to Xeyop^vov rj irpaTTOfievov v'k avTOiV,
eOpeyfrav TotovTOv<; TLvd<;.
KA. K.aXrjv, (u? eoiKa<i, Tpo(f)r]V eiprjKa<i.
E A0. TvvaiKeiav fiev ovv âaiXL8o)v yvvaiKcov,
vecoaTl yeyovviMV irXovaicov Kal iv dv8puiv epijfiCa,
8id TO firj (T)ôXdêiv vtto TroXe/ioyv Kal ttoXXcov
Ktv8vva>v, T0U9 TTatSa? Tpe(f>ova(ov.
KA. "E%et yap Xoyov.
A0. 'O 8€ 7raTi]p ye avrol^ av Trol/jLVia fiev koX
irpoûTa Kal dyeXa^ dv8poi)V re Kal dXXwv iroX-
695 Xcjv TToXXa? eKTaTO, avT0v I add.
%26
LAWS, BOOK III
cuN. Probably that is pretty much the way in

which the matters you speak of took place.
ATH. How came it, then, that they were ruined
in Cambyses' reign, and nearly restored again under
Darius ? Shall 1 use a kind of divination to picture
this?
CLIN. Yes that certainly will help us to gain a
:
view of the object of our search.

ATH. What I now divine regarding Cyrus is this,
— that, although otherwise a good and patriotic
commander, he was entirely without a right educa-
tion, and had paid no attention to household
management.
CUN. What makes us say this ?
ATH. Probably he spent all his life from boyhood

in soldiering, and entrusted his children to the
womenfolk to rear up and they brought them up
;
from earliest childhood as though they had already

attained to Heaven's favour and felicity, and were
lacking in no celestial gift and so by treating them
;
as the special favourites of Heaven, and forbidding

anyone to oppose them in anything, and compelling
everyone to praise their every word and deed, they
reared them up into what they were.
CUN. A fine rearing, I should say
ATH. Say rather, a womanish rearing by royal
women lately grown rich, who, while the men were
absent, detained by many dangers and wars, reared
up the children.
CUN. That sounds reasonable.
ATH. And their father, while gaining flocks and
sheep and plenty of herds, both of men and of many
other chattels, yet knew not that the children to
whom he should bequeath them were without train-
227
ill i PLATO
Siocretv cfJieXKep i^yvoet r-qv iraTpwav ov rraiSev-
ofievov^ Te')(yr)v, ovaav [YlepaiKrjv, iroifxevcov ovroyv
WepcrSiv, ^copa? eKyovcop,] ^ crKXrjpav koX
Tpa')(^€iaLa<i [t^v
M^r]8iKT)v]^ irepieiSev vtto yvvaiKotv re Kal evvov-
X^v TraiSevdivTa^ avrov tou? f t'et?, oOev iyevovro
B OLOv^ rjv avTov /xeaTol Kal
dveTTL'TrXri^La^y irpwrov p.ev top erepov drepo^
aireKTeive t& laco dyavaKTwv, fjuerd Be rovro
avroi fJbaLv6p,evo<i vtto p,e9r)<i re Kal dTTaiBev(Tia<;
Ttjv dp')(^r)V aTTCoXeaev vtto ^rjBwv re Kal rov Xe-
yojjLevov rore evvovôv, KaTacppovijaavTOf rrjs Ka^-
^vcrou fX(opia<i.
KA. AeyeTai Brj ravrd ye, Kai eoiKe a')(êBbv
C ovT(o TTw? yeyovivai.
A0. Kal p.r]v Kal irdXiv eh Ilepcra? eXOeiv rrjv
dpxh'' ^^^ âpeiov Kal tmp eiTTa Xiyerat ttov.
KA. Tt /ii7;i/ ;
A0. &€cop(Ji)p,ev Bt) ^vveTTO/xevoi to) Xoyw. Aa-
pe2o<; yap /Saa-iXeax; ovk tjv v!o<; iraiBela re ov
BiaTpv(f)U}arj redpa/uL/j-evo^, iXOcov B' elf ttjv dp^rju
Kal Xaâ)v avrrjv e^Bop,o<; BtelXero eTrra P'ept]
Teii6fievo<i, Q)v Kal vvv en (TfiiKpa oveipara Xe-
^ [nepfftK^r . . . iKy6vo)v'] bracketed by Ast, Schanz,

* [t))// M?)5ik)ji'] I bracket (cp. England).
^ i.e. Cambyses killed Smerdia.
228
LAWS, BOOK III
ing in their father's craft, which was a hard one, fit

to turn out shepherds of great strength, able to camp
out in the open and to keep watch and, if need be,
to go campaigning. He overlooked the fact that
his sons were trained by women and eunuchs and
that the indulgence shown them as " Heaven's
darlings" had ruined their training, whereby they
became such as they were likely to become when
reared with a rearing that "spared the rod." So
when, at the death of Cyrus, his sons took over the
kingdom, over-pampered and undisciplined as they
were, first, the one killed the other,^ through annoy-
ance at his being put on an equality with himself,
and presently, being mad with drink and debauchery,
he lost his own throne at the hands of the Medes,
under the man then called the Eunuch,^ who despised
the stupidity of Cambyses.
CLIN. That, certainly, is the story, and probably
it is near to the truth.
ATH. Further, the story tells how the kingdom

was restored to the Persians through Darius and the
Seven.
CLiN. It does.
ATH. Let us follow the story and see how things
went.' Darius was not a king's son, nor was he
reared luxuriously. When he came and seized the
kingdom, with his six companions, he divided it into
seven parts, of which some small vestiges remain
even to this day and he thought good to manage it
;
by enacting laws into which he introduced some

* i.e. the Magian, Gomates, who personated Smerdis and
claimed the kingdom. After seven months' reign this

usurper was slain by seven Persian nobles, of whom Darius
was one (521 B.C.).
» Cf. Hdt. in. 68-88.
229
PLATO
U XeiTTTai, Kal v6/j,ov<; •q^Lov Oe/xevot oIkciv laoTijrd
Tiva Koivr}i> el<T(p€pci)v, Kal rbv rov Kvpov Sacr/Mov
ov v7rea-)(ejo Uepaaa eh rov vofiov iveSei, ^Ckiav
iropi^wv Kal KOLvwviav iracn Yiep(TaL<i, ')(prjfiacri
Kal Scopeal^ rbv Hepcrcov Sij/xov Trpoaayofievoi;'
roLjapovv avr& ra arparevixara fier* evvoia^
TrpocreKrrja-aro ovk €\drrov<; S)V KariXiire
')(^(opa^
Kvpo<i. fiera Be Aapeiov 6 rfj âcriXiKJ] Kal rpv-

(f)a)ar] iraXiv 7raiB€vdel<i TraiSeCa He/a^J^f. 'H
AapeLe, eltrelv earl SiKaiorarov icox;, cb? ^ to
E K.vpov KaKov OVK 6p,ade<i, eOpi'^frco Be 'E.ip^rjv iv
roh avrot<; iÔecnv iv olcrirep Kvpof Kafi^va-rjv.
o Be, are rurv avrtov rraiBeioov <yev6p.evo<i eK'yovo'i,
iraparrXrjaia atreriXeae rot? K.a/x^v(Tov Tradr}-
/jLacrr Kal ayêBov ck ye roaourov âai\ev<i iv
Ylepaai^; ovBeL<i rro) p,e<ya<; iyyeyovev dXt]Oco<i, irXrjv
ye ovofiart. ro atriov ov rv^V^, w? o e/i09
S'
696 \0709, oKX o KaKo<; /3to9 ov 01 rS)v Bia(êp6vra)<i

rrXovcricov Kal rvpdvvatv rraiBe^; ra ttoXXo, ^wcriv
ov yap jMrj irore yevrjrat Tralf Kal dvrjp Kal yepatv
iK ravTT)^ T?}? rpo(f)7]^ Bta(pepo}v rrpb? dperijv.
a B)'j, <j)a/jLev, rm vofxoderrj aKeirreov, Kal t)fj,iv Be
iv Tft) vvv Trapovri. BiKaiov p-riv, a> Aa«e5at-
fiovioi, rovro yenoXei vficov drrroBiBovai, ore
rfj
rrevia koI Kal IBiwreia kuI fiaaiXeLa
rrXovrat
B Bta<f)epov<Tav ovB^ rjvrivovv rifirjv Kal rpo<pr}v
vifiere, a? fii] rb Kar dp')(â<i vfMiv delov rrapd deov
Biepavrevaaro rivo^. ov yap Brj Bel Kara ttoXiv
* &1S Stephens : ts MSS. (bracketed by Ast)
230
LAWS, BOOK III
measure of political equality, and also incorporated in

the law regulations about the tribute-money which
Cyrus had promised the Persians, whereby he secured
friendliness and fellowship amongst all classes of the
Persians, and won over the populace by money and
gifts ;and because of this, the devotion of his
armies won for him as much more land as Cyrus had
originally bequeathed. After Darius came Xerxes,
and lie again was brought up with the luxurious
——
rearing of a royal house " O Darius "
: for it is thus
one may rightly address the father " how is it that
you have ignored the blunder of Cyrus, and have
reared up Xerxes in just the same habits of life in
which Cyrus reared Cambyses ? " And Xerxes,
being the product of the same training, ended bv
repeating almost exactly the misfortunes of Cambyses.
Since then there has hardly ever been a single
Persian king who was really, as well as nominally,
" Great." ^ And, as our argument asserts, the cause
of this does not lie in luck, but in the evil life which
is usually lived by the sons of excessively rich
monarchs for such an upbringing can never produce
;
either boy or man or greybeard of surpassing good-

ness. To this, we say, the lawgiver must give heed,
— as must we ourselves on the present occasion. It is
proper, however, my Lacedaemonian friends, to give
—
your State credit for this at least, that you assign
no different honour or training whatsoever to poverty
or wealth, to the commoner or the king, beyond
what your original oracle ^ declared at the bidding of
some god. Nor indeed is it right that pre-eminent
^ The Persian monarch waa commonlv styled " the Great
King."
• The laws of Lycargtu.
PLATO
ye eivai ra? rt/ua? v'nepe-)(ovaa<i, on ri<i can
ir\ovT(p 8ia(f)epcov, eVet ov8' oti raxix; rj koXo^ 97
la^vp6<; avev rtvo^ ayoer?;?, ou5' dpcTrj^ 1^9 av
aoo^poavvrj (nrfj.
ME. riw? TovTO, Si ^cVe, \e7ei9 ;
Ae. ÂvSpia irov p,6ptov dp€T7]<; ^v ;

ME. rift)? 7ap ov ;
A©. Alkuctov Toivvv avjo'i rov \oyov UKOvaaf,

et <TOi Seâio av avvoiKov 17 yeiropa elvai riva
(T(f)68pa /xev dvBpeiop, p-r) auxppopa Se dX\
OLKoKaaTov.
C ME. ^v(^rjp.€i.
A0. Tt Se ; Texvifcov pev kuI irepl ravra ao-
(f)6v, aStKov Be ;
ME. Ovhap,(ji}^.
Ae. 'AXXa p^Tjv TO 76 SiKaiov ov <f>v€Tat, %«i>/3t9
ToO a(M)(f)pOV6tV.
ME. rico? 7ap aV ;
A0. OvSe ov ye ao(f>ov r)pel<i vvv 8r] rrpov-

p.r]v
6ept,e6a, top ra<; rjSova<; koI XuTra? KeKTr]p,ivov

(TVfi(pcovov<; Tot9 opOol<i X6yoi<i koI erropêva'?.
ME. Ou yap ovv.
D A0. "Erf koX ToSe iiriaKeylrcopeOa tmv ev
8t)
Tai? TToXeai Tipi]a€a)p €P€Ka, TTolai re opOal xal

pij yiypovTai eKacrroTe.
ME. To TTolov
A0. Xcacbpocrvvy] dpeu irdarj^; rr}? dWr)<i' eliroiv yap

1 Cp. 689 D.
232
LAWS, BOOK III
honours in a State should be conferred on a man

because he is specially wealthy, any more than it is
right to confer them because he is swift or comely
or strong without any virtue, or with a virtue devoid
of temperance.
MEG. What do you mean by that. Stranger }
ATH. Courage is, presumably, one part of virtue.
MEG. Certainly.
ATH. Now that you have heard the argument,
judge for yourself whether you would welcome as
housemate or neighbour a man who is extremely
courageous, but licentious rather than temperate.
MEG. Don't suggest such a thing
ATH. —
Well then, a man wise in arts and crafts,
but unjust.
MEG. Certainly not.
ATH, But justice, surely, is not bred apart from
temjjcrance.
MEG. Impossible.
ATH. Nor is he whom we recently proposed ^ as
—
our type of wisdom, the man who has his feelings
of pleasure and pain in accord with the dictates of
right reason and obedient thereto.
MEG. No, indeed.
ATH. Here is a further point we must consider, in
order to judge about the conferment of honours in
States, when they are right and when wrong.
MEG. What jK)int?
ATH. If temperance existed alone in a man's soul,
divorced from all the rest of virtue, would it justly be
held in honour or the reverse ?
MEG. I cannot tell what rejily to make.
ATH. Yet, in truth, you have made a reply, and a

reasonable one. For if you had declared for either
PLATO
St} o)v ^p6/j,T)v oTTOjepovovv irapa /xeXo? €/jloij^ av
Ka\&>9 Tocvvv yeyovof; av eit).

ME.
Klew TO jxev Srj -rrpoardrjfia, wv rifxat re
A0.
E Kai uTifxiat, ov Xoyov dWd rivof fxaWov dXoyov
cnyrj'i dîov av etrj.
ME. ^cixppoavvrjv jxoi <âiv€i \iyeiv.

Ae. Nat'. TO 8i ye tmv aWcov irXetaTa
^fid^ oi)(f>€Xovv fieTCL TY)^ Trpoad^Kijf; fidXiaTav
Tifidofievov opdoTUTa Tifi,&To, Kal TO SevTcpov
hevTepu)<i' Kal ovtw hrj KaTO, tov e^rj<; Xoyov Td<;
C(f)e^r]<i Ti/J,d<; Xdyxavov eKaaTov 6p6o)<i dv Xay-
'X^dvoi.
697 ME. "^X^'' '^^^T'V'
A0. Tt ovv ; ov vo/jLodeTov Kal TauTa av
^yjaofiev elvac Biave/xeiv ;
ME. Kal fidXa.

A0. BouXet Br) TO, fxev airavTa Kal ecf)^ ^Kaa-Tov
epyov Kal KaTO, afUKpd eKeivtp Bwfiev veljxai, to
Be Tptxfj BieXeiv, eTreiBr] voficov ea/xev Kal avToi
7rci)<? eTTtdufirjTaL, jreipadoiêv BiaTefxelv %&)/3i9 ra
T6 p,kyi(TTa Kal BevTCpa Kal TpiTa ;
ME. Haw
fiev ovv.
Aeyofiev toIvvv oti iroXiv, (u? eoiKC, ttjv
A0.
B fieXXovaav acoêaOat re Kal evBai/xov/jcreiv ei?
BvvafjLLv dvdpair lvr)v Bel Kal dvayKalov Tf/xa? re
Kal dTifj,La<; Biave/xeiv 6pdSi<;. ecni Be 6pOa)<; apa
TifxicoTaTa ixev Kal npcoTa to, irepl ttjv "^v^V^
* i.e. "temperance," regarded as merely an adjunct to

civic merit, requires no further discussion at this point.
234
LAWS, BOOK III
of the alternatives in my question, you would have

said what is, to my mind, quite out of tune.
MEG. So it has turned out to be all right.
ATH. Very good. Accordingly, the additional
element in objects deserving of honour or dishonour
will be one that demands not speech so much as a
kind of speechless silence.^
MEG. I suppose vou mean temperance.
ATH. Yes. And of the rest, that which, ^vith

the addition of temperance, benefits us most would
best deserve to be held in the highest honour, and
the second in degree of benefit put second in order
of honour and so with each of the others in
;
succession —
to each it will be proper to assign the
honour due to its rank.
MEG. Just so. «
ATH. Well then, shall we not declare that the

distribution of these things is the lawgiver's task?
MEG. Certainly.
ATH. Is it your Mrish that we should hand over
the whole distribution to him, to deal with every
case and all the details, while we — as legal en-
thusiasts ourselves also —
confine ourselves to making
a threefold division, and endeavour to distinguish
what comes first in importance, and what second and
third r
2
MEG. By all means.

ATH. We declare, then, that a State which is
to endure, and to be as happy as it is possible for
man to be, must of necessity dispense honours
rightly. .And the right way is this it shall be :
laid down that the goods of the soul are highest
* Cp. 631 B, C; 661 AfiF.; 726 Afif. ; Arist. Eth. ^\ 1098b

12flF.
235
PLATO
ayaua KelaOai, (T(i)(f>poavvr}<; V7rap')(ôv(rr}^ avrrj,
BevTepa Be to, nepl to aw/xa xaXa koI a<yadd,
Kai rpira ra Trepl ttjv ovcriav kuI j^^p^jfiara \e-
yofieva. rovrtov Se av €KT6<i Tt? fiaivr] vofModiTT]<;
T} TToXt?, et? Tt/ia? rj ')(^p^fiara irpodjovaa rj ri
C Tcov ixTTepcov 649 TO TTpoadev Tifj,ac<: TciTTOuaa,
ovd oaiov ovTe ttoXitikov av hpatrj irpd'^p.a.
elpijcrdo) ravTa rj tto)? Tjfxii/ ;
ME. Udvv fxev ovv elpiâdo) aa^Si<i.

A0. TauTa fxev rolvvv rjfid^ iirl irXeov eTTOirjaev
enrelv rj Ylepcrciiyv irept SidaKeyp-i^; t?)? TroXtTe/a?.
dvevptcTKO/jiev Se [em] ^ ert ')(êipovt avrovf; ye-
yovora^' rrfv Be alriav (f)a/ji€v on to iXevOepov
Xiav d<f)e\6p6voi rov B-qiiov, to BearroTiKOV S'
eirayayovTef; p.dWov rov TTpoarjKOVTO^, to (f)CKov
D (ivcoXeaav koX to koivov ev rfj TroXec, tovtov 8e
(ÔapevTO's ovO' 77 tmv dp')(^6vrcov ôvXrj virep
dp-)(ôfieva)v koX tov hrjixov ôvXeverai, a\X' evexa
Tij'i auTcov dp')(r)^, du ti koI ajxiKpov irXeov
eKaaroTe r^ywvrai eaeadai (Tcf)iacv, dvaardTOVf
fiev 7roXet9i dvaarara Be edvrj (f)LXia irvpl Kara-
(f)0€LpavTe<;, ix^pw^; re koI dvrjXeo)^ fiiaovvTe^;
/xiaovvTai' orav t€ €lLKvoiVTai, ovBev koivov ev
E awTot? av /xerd '7rpodvfMta<; tov ideXeiv KivBvveveiv
Kal iJbd')(e(Tdai dvevpiaKovaiv, dXXd /c€KTr]fievoi
/jLvpidBaî djrepdvTOV^ Xoytaixco d')(pi](TTOv<; et?
TToXe/MOv 7rdaa<i KeKTqvrai, Kal KaOdirep €vBe€t<i
dvBpcoTTwv fiiadovfievoi, vtto ficaOcorcov Kal odveiwv
dv6pcoirayv rjyovvrai irore cr (ad rja ecrd ai' 7rpo<; Be
'
[«Vi] bracketed by Stephens (îrl Itt; Schneider).
LAWS, BOOK III
in honour and come first, provided that the soul

possesses temperance ; second come the good and
iair things of the body; and third the so-called
goods of substance and property. And if any law-
giver or State transgresses these rules, either by
promoting wealth to honours, or by raising one of
the lower goods to a higher rank by means of
honours, he will be guilty of a breach both of
religion and of statesmanship. Shall this be our
declaration, or what .-'
MEG. By all means let us declare this plainly.

ATH. It was our investigation of the polity of
the Persians that caused us to discuss these matters
at greater length. We find that they grew still
worse, the reason being, as we say, that by robbing
the commons unduly of their liberty and intro-
ducing despotism in excess, they destroyed in the
State the bonds of friendliness and fellowship. And
when these are destroyed, the policy of the rulers
no longer consults for the good of the subjects and
the commons, but solely for the maintenance of
their own power if they think that it will profit
;
them in the least degree, they are ready at any

time to overturn States and to overturn and bum
up friendly nations and thus they both hate and
;
are hated with a fierce and ruthless hatred. And

when they come to need the commons, to fight in
their support, they find in them no patriotism or
readiness to endanger their lives in battle ; so that,
although they possess countless myriads of men,
they are all useless for war, and they hire soldiers
from abroad as though they were short of men,
and imagine that their safety will be secured by
hirelings and aliens. And besides all this, they
VOL. 1. r 237
PLATO
698 TouTOt? dfiaOaiveiv dvayxuôvTai, Xeyovra €pyoi}
irepi ye Uepacop, &>? ovk opdcii^
TO,vvv SioiKelrai Sid rtjv a(f)68pa SovXelav re Kal
hea-noTeiav, reXo? ixêro).
ME. Ildvv fiev ovv.
A0. Ta he irepl ttjv Triv eXevdepia
T/)? p,eTpov e')(ov(Tr]<i dp')(r)<i v(f) alpercoi'^ ov afiiKpai
B xeipwv ripXv yap Kar eKetvov tov ')(^p6vov ore r)
IJepacov eiridecrL^ rol<i"EXXr}(ri,v, taw^ he crxêBop
diraai TOt<? rrjv EvpcoTnjv oIkovctiv, eyiyvero,
TToXireia re tjv rraXaid Kal e« rc/xrjfidroyp dp)âi
rive
diTopov ep-âXov, SovXelav en fielôva erroirâev
C r]pd<i roi<i re dp')(ovcn Kal Tot9 vopôi^ SovXevcrac.
Kal Bid iravra ravd r]pA,v ^vveireae irpof rjpd<i
avrom a-ôBpd (piXia. a-)(êB6v yap BeKa ereai
irpo rrj(; ev âXapHvi Aart?
vavp,a')(^La irpoenroDv p,T]
irpdâvri ravra. Kal 6 Adri<; to 1/9 pev Eperpieaf ^
^ alpiToiv : eTfpuv MSS., edd.
1 That of Solon.
238
LAWS, BOOK III
inevitably display their ignorance, inasmuch as by

their acts they declare that the things reputed
to be honourable and noble in a State are never
anything but dross compared to silver and gold.
MEG. Very true.
ATH. So let this be the conclusion of our account
of the Persian empire, and how its present evil
administration is due to excess of slavery and of
despotism.
MEG. By all means.
ATH. We ought to examine next, in like manner,
the Attic polity, and show how complete liberty,
unfettered by any authority, is vastly inferior to
a moderate form of government under elected
magistrates. At the time when the Persians made
their onslaught upon the Greeks — and indeed one
might say on nearly all the nations of Europe we —
Athenians had an ancient constitution,^ and magis-
trates based on a fourfold grading ; and we had
Reverence, which acted as a kind of queen, causing
us to live as the willing slaves of the existing laws.
Moreover, the vastness of the Persian armament
that threatened us both by sea and land, by the
desperate fear it inspired, bound us still more closely
in the bonds of slavery to our rulers and our laws;
and because of all this, our mutual friendliness and
patriotism was greatly intensified. It was just about
ten years before the seafight at Salamis that the
Persian force arrived under Datis, whom Darius had
despatched expressly against the Athenians and
Eretrians, with orders to bring them back in chains,
and with the warning that death would be the
penalty of failure. So within a very short time
Datis, with his many myriads, captured by force the
339
PLATO
D ev Tivi (ipa')(el xpovw TravTUTraai Kara Kpdro'i re
elXe i-Lvpuiai (jv)(yal'i, riva \6<yov eh rrji'
kul
rifierepav iroXiv atprjKe (ôjSepov, o)? 0^^649 'Epe-
rpiecov avTOv aTroirecpevyoo^ etrj- avvdylravre^ yap
apa Td<i ')(êlpa^ aayrjvevcraiev vaaau rr]v 'E/je-
TpiKi]v ol aTparicoTai rov AdTc8o<;. 6 Si) '\,6yo<;,
ecre dXT]dr)<; eire kuI ottt} d(f)CK€TO, tov<; t€ dXX.ou<;
KWrjva^ Kol 8i] Kol Adrjvaiov^; iêirXijTTe, koX
^
TrpecTêuo/xevoi^ avroi^; 7ravTa-)(^Gae (Borjdelv ov8€l<;

t' ijOeXe ttXijv ye KaKehaip,ovlwv ouroi Se vtto re rov
rrpo'i M.eaai]i'i]v oprof rore iroXefiov Kol el 8rj ri
BceKcoXvep dXXo avrov<i, ov yap tapev Xeyofievov,
vcrrepoi S ovv d^LKovro rrj<; ev M.apada)vi p,d'^7]<;
yevop.evr)o8p6<i, 6
pelo'i
vib<i avrov TrapetXrjcpevai rr)v dpyrjv Kal ovhapSi'i
699 d^Lcrraadai rrj^ 6pp,rj<;. ol 8e Adrjvaioc rrdv
'
rovro (povro errl cr(f)d<i avrov<i irapaaKevdêaOat

8ia ro Mâpadcovi yevopevov, Kal aKovovre'i 'Xdco
re 8copvrr6p,€vov Kal EXXtjaTrovroi' êvyvupevov
Kal ro r(*)v vewv irXrjdo^ i)y)](Tavro ovre Kara yijv
a(f)iaLV elvai acorrjpiav ovre Kara OdXarrav
ovre yap ôr)d )jcreiv avroip,a-)(^6p-euo^. r avrov 8q 7rpocre86-
Kcov Kal rore yeurjaecrdaL ro ye Kara yrjv. Kal
Kara OdXarrav 8' av irdaav diropiav idipeov
240
LAWS, BOOK III
whole of the Eretrians ; and to Athens he sent on

an alarming account of how not a man of the
Eretrians had escaped him : the soldiers of Datis
had joined hands and swept the whole of Eretria
clean as with a draw-net. —
This account whether
true, or whatever its origin— struck terror into the
Greeks generally, and especially the Athenians
but when they sent out embassies in every direction
to seek aid, all refused, except the Lacedaemonians
and they were hindered by the war they were then
waging against Messene, and possibly by other
obstacles, about whicli we have no information, with
the result that they arrived too late by one single
day for the battle which took place at Marathon.
After this, endless threats and stories of huge
preparations kept arriving from the Persian king.
Then, as time went on, news came that Darius was
dead, and that his son, who had succeeded to the
throne, was a young hothead, and still keen on the
projected expedition. The .\thenians imagined that
all these preparations were aimed against them
because of the affair at Marathon and when they
;
heard of how the canal had been made through

Athos, and the bridge thrown over the Hellespont,
and were told of the vast number of vessels in the
Persian flotilla, then they felt that there was no
salvation for them by land, nor yet by sea. By
land they had no hopes that anyone would come to
their aid ; for they remembered how, on the first
arrival of the Persians and their subjugation of
Eretria, nobody helped them or ventured to join in
the fight with them and so they expected that
;
the same thing would happen again on this occasion.

By sea, too, they saw no hope of safety, with more
241
PLATO
awTrjplat; veSiv ^(îkiwv koX en ttXcovcdv CTTKpe-
pofxevcov. fiLav Srj acoTrjplav ^vvevoovv, Xeinrjv fiev
KUi arropov, fxovrjv 8' ovv, ^Xeylravrd tt/jo? to
irporepov yevo/xevov, &>? e^ airopoov koI totc
i<f)aLV€To yeveadat to viKrjaai p,a')(op,evov<i' iirl
Be Trj<; e'XTTtSo? o^ôvpbevoL Tavrrji; evpiaxov Kara-
^vyrjv avjol<i et? avToix; fiovov; elvai xal tou?
C deov<i' ravT ovv avroi<; iravra (piXiav dW^Xcov
ivetToiei, o <ôô<i o Tore Trapcov 6 le ck tmv voficov
TMv epLTTpocrdev yeyovco^, ov BovX€uovTe<; TOt?
irpoadev vo/j-oi<; eKeKTrjvTO, rjv alSco TroWaKi^ ev
TOi<?avo) X6yoi<; eiTrofiev, ^ koI SovXeveiv €(j)a/xev
Belu Toi/? [ieXXovja<i ayaOov<; eaeadai, rjs o SeiXof
iXevOepo^ koX d(f)o8o<;' ov ei totc /xt] Xeco? ^ eXaêv,
ovK av TTore ^vveXdiov rjixvvaTO ovh^ ij/xuvev iepoi<i
re KoX rdcôif; kol Trarpihi /cal Tot? d\Xoi<; olKeioi<i
D T6 dpia Kul (f)LXot<;, axnrep tot eôijdrjaev, dXXd
Kara cr/xiKpa dv ev tm totc ^/xcov eKUcrTO^ crKeha-
a6e\<; dXXo^ dXXoae hieairdpii.
ME, Kat fiaXa, w êve, 6pO(a<; re eipt]Ka<; koL
(TavTO) Te Kol TT] irarpiSi TrpeTrovTco^.
A0. "EcTTt TavTa, 0) MeytXXe- irpo^ yap ere rd
ev Tft) T0T6 ^(pova) yevofieva, kolvwvov tt] twv
TTUTepcov yeyovoTa
<^vaei, Slkucov Xeyeiv. ein-
cTKOTrei KoX av Kol KXeiv(,a<; et rt Trpo? ttjv
fjLTjv
E vofModeatav irpocrrjKOVTa Xeyofiev ov yap p,v6wv

evcKa hieêpôpLai, ov Xeyco 8' evcKW Spare ydp'
iireihrj rtva Tpoirov ravrov ripXv ^vp.ê^r]Kei
' Xfdjj : Sf'oj MSS. {lrt}xoi for SeiAbs Hermann)
» Cp. 646E, 647C, 671 D.
242
LAWS, BOOK III
than a thousand war-ships bearing down against

them. One solitary hope of safety did they per-
ceive — a slight one, it is true, and a desperate, yet
—
the only hope and it they derived from the events
of the past, when victory in battle appeared to
spring out of a desperate situation and buoyed up
;
by this hope, they discovered that they must rely

for refuge on themselves only and on the gods. So
all this created in them a state of friendliness one
—
towards another both the fear which then possessed
them, and that begotten of the past, which they
had acquired by their subjection to the former laws
— the fear to which, in our previous discussions/
we have often given the name of " reverence,"
saying that a man must be subject to this if he
is to be good (though the coward is unfettered and
unafTrighted by it). Unless this fear had then

seized upon our people, they would never have
united in self-defence, nor would they have de-
fended their temples and tombs and fatherland,
and their relatives and friends as well, in the way
in which they then came to the rescue ; but we
would all have been broken up at that time and
dispersed one by one in all directions.
MEG. What you say. Stranger, is perfectly true,
and worthy of your country as well as of yourself.
ATH. That is so, Megillus it is proper to mention
:
the events of that period to you, since you share in

the native character of your ancestors. But l)oth
you and Clinias must now consider whether what
we are saying is at all pertinent to our law-making ;
for my not related for its own sake, but

narrative is
for the sake of the law-making I speak of. Just
reflect seeing that we Athenians suffered practically
:
243
PLATO
7rd0o<; oirep Uepaai^, €K€lvoi^ fiev iirl iratrav Sov-
Xeiav ayovcrc rov Bfjfiop, rj^lv S' av rovvavTLov
i-jrl TTCLcrav eKevdeplav TrpoTpeirovcrc ra irXrjdr],
TTCO^ Br) Kal Tt Xeyw/jiev rovvrevdet', <€t7r€p>^ ol
Trpoyeyovoiei; r}puv e/nirpoadev \6yoi rpoTrov riva
fcaX(o<i elalv etprj/xevoi ;
700 ME. Ae7et9 ev' ireipco S' eVt aaêarepov rjpuv

(T7}ixrjvaL ro vvv Xeyo/xevov.
A0. "Kcnai ravra. ovk rjv, (o ^Ckoi, rjfxlv €7rt
TMV 7ra\aio)v vofxwv o hrjjXGf; tivcov Kvpio^, dWa
TpoTTov Tivd eKODv iSovXeve rol<i vo/moci.
ME. Ilotot? St] \€yei<;
A0. Tot? irepl Tr)V /j,ov<TiKr)v irpwrov rr)v
Tore, iva i^ dp')(rj<i SieXdm/jLev rrjv rov eXevOepov
Xiav iirihoaiv /3iov. hirjprjfxevrj yap 8t} rore rjv
rjfiiv rj fiovcriKr] Kara ei^r] re lauTj}? drra koL
B a)(^t]/j,aTa, kuc ri rjv elho<i oJS?;? e^'Xat TTyOo? Oeov^,
ovofia Be vfivot iireKaXovvro' Kal tovtw Br) to
evavriov rjv (pBri<i erepov etSo9, dprjvovi Be t/9 av
avTovs fidXiara e/coAecre" Kal Traicove? erepov,
Kal oAAo Aiovvcrov yâtveaes,^ olfxai, Sidvpap^ôs
Xey6fi€vo<;. v6p.ov<i re avTO tovto Tovvo/xa exd-
Xovv, (pBrjv W9 Tiva erepav irriXeyov Be Kidapat-
BiKovf. TOVTOiv Br] BiareTay/iievcov Kal aXXcov
rt,va)v OVK i^rjv dXXo) et9 dXXo KaTa^prjaOai /jbeXovi
C 6t8o9. TO Be Kvpo^ Tovrcov yvcovai re Kal dfxa
yvovra BcKdcai Krip,iovv re av rov firj neidop-evov
ov avpiy^ rjv ovBe rive^ dfiovaoi j3oal 7rX7]0ov<i,
KaOdirep ra vvv, ovB^ av Kporot eiralvov^ dvoBi
' <eiiT€p> I add (Schanz marks a lacuna).

^ y* a've(T€s (so too Post) : yeveae^ MSS., edd.
244
LAWS, BOOK III
the same fate as the Persians— they through reducing

their people to the extreme of slavery, we, on the
contrary, by urging on our populace to the extreme
of liberty —
what are we to say was the sequel, if our
earlier statements have been at all nearly correct?
MEG. Well said Try, however, to make your
I
meaning more clear to us.

still
ATH. I will. Under the old laws, my friends,
our commons had no control over anything, but
were, so to say, voluntary slaves to the laws.
MEG. What laws do you mean ?
ATH. Those dealing with the music of that age,
in the first place, —
to describe from its commence-
ment how the life of excessive liberty grew up.
Among us, at that time, music was divided into
various classes and styles one class of song was
:
that of prayers to the gods, which bore the name ot

" hymns " contrasted with this was another class,
;
best called "dirges"; "paeans'* formed another;

and yet another was the "dithyramb," named, I
fancy, after Dionysus. " Nomes " also were so called
as being a distinct class of song and these were
;
further described as " citharoedic nomes." ^ So

these and other kinds being classified and fixed, it
was forbidden to set one kind of words to a different
class of tune. 2 The authority whose duty it was to
know these regulations, and, when known, to apply
them in its judgments and to penalise the dis-
obedient, was not a pipe nor, as now, the mob's
unmusical shoutings, nor yet the clappings which
^ i.e. solemn chants sung to the "cithara" or lyre.
"Dithyrambs" were choral odes to Dionysus; "peieans"
were mostly hvmns of praise to Apollo.
* Cp. 6o7Cff.,669Cff.
245
PLATO
Sovre^, dXXa Tot<f fxeu yeyouoai nepl iraiSevatv
SeSoyfievov aKoveiv r}v avToi^ fxera aiyrj<i Bia
reXov^, Traial 8e kuI Trai8ayo}yol<; kuI tm irXeLcrTO)
0'\Xa) pd^Sov Kocr/jLOucTTTi rj vovOerrjcri^ eyiyveTo.
D ravT ovv ovro) TeTayfxevco^ r]6eXev dp)(êa0ai, loiv
TToXiTMV TO irXrjdo'i, koX fxrj 7oXp,av Kpiveiv hid
dopvôv p,eTd 8e ravra irpoiovTO^ tov )(p6vov
dpj(0VTevaei /jlcv ttoiijtckoI, dyv(ofiov€^ ^8ov7]<i, Kepavvvvre^ Sk dprjvov^ t€ v/jlvoi^ teal
7raicoua<i Sidvpd/iiôi^, koI avX(i)8ia<; 8f} Tat?

Kidapw8iai<; /Mfiov/nevoi Kal Trdvra ei? Trdvra
B ^vvdyovre'^, /jLovctikt]^ dKovre<i vtt dvoia^ Kara-
•êv86p.€VOL, 0)9 opOorrjra pkv ovk cTôt ov8^
rjVTLVOVV fjbovcriKij, rj8ovfj 8e Ttj tov ât/joi/TO?,
eiT€ êXTvcov etTg )(eipa)v dv eiij ti<;, KpivoiTo
opdoTaTa. TOiavTa 8r) 7roiovvT€<i iroit^naTa X6yov<s
T€ €7rLXeyovT€<; toiovtov<; to?? TToXXoi<i evedeaav
7rapaj'0p.iav eh ttjv /jLovcTiKrjv Kal ToXfiav, to?
iKavol<i overt Kpiveiv. odev i^
8r) tu OkaTpa
701 d(f)covcov (f)covi'i€VTa eiraiovTa iv Mou-
iyevovTO, &)?
o"at9 TO Te KaXov Kal /j-rj, Kal qvtI dpi(TTOKpaTla<i
ip avTT) OeaTpoKpaTia Tt<? Trovrjpd yeyovev. et
yap 8r) Kal 8r)p,0KpaTia ev avTrj Tt? jxovov eyeveTo
eXevOepcov dv8pcov, ovBcv dp irdvv ye 8eiv6v rjv to
yey ov6<i. vvv 8e rjpê p.ev rjfilu eK plover iKfjij t)
TrdvTcov et? irdvTa ao(f)ia<; 86â Kal Trapavopia,
>
Cp. Rep. iii. 397 Aff.
^ i.6. " rule of the audience " as we might say, the pit
;
and gallery sat in judgment, Cp. Arist. Pol. viii. 6.

246
LAWS, BOOK III
mark applause : it was a rule made

in place of this,
by those in controlof education that thev tliemselves
should listen throughout in silence, while the
children and their ushers and the general crowd
were kept in order by the discipline of the rod. In
the matter of music the populace willingly submitted
to orderly control and abstained from outrageously
judging by clamour but later on, with the progress
;
of time, there arose as leaders of unmusical illegality

poets who, though by nature poetical, were ignorant
of what was just and lawful in music; and they,
being frenzied and unduly possessed by a spirit of
pleasure, mixed dirges with hymns and paeans with
dithyrambs, and imitated flute-tunes with harp-
tunes, and blended every kind of music with every
other : and thus, through their folly, they un-
wittingly bore false witness against music, as a thing
without any standard of correctness, of which the
best criterion is the pleasure of the auditor, be he a
good man or a bad.^ By compositions of such a
character, set to similar words, they bred in the
populace a spirit of lawlessness in regard to music,
and the effrontery of supposing themselves capable
of passing judgment on it. Hence the theatre-
goers became noisy instead of silent, as though they
knew the difference between good and bad music,
and in place of an aristocracy in music there sprang
up a kind of base theatrocracy.' For if in music,
and music only, there had arisen a democracy of
free men, such a result would not have been so very
alarming ;but as it was, the universal conceit of
universal wisdom and the contempt for law origi-
nated in the music, and on the heels of these came
247
PLATO
^vve(f)€aTreTo Be eXevdepia. dcfyoôi yap eyiyvovro
ft)<? elSore'i, aSeia avaia-)(yvTiav eVere/ee* to
rj 8e
B yap rrjv tov ^€\TLOvo<i Soâv /jlt) (poêlarOai 8ia
dpaaof, TOUT avTO ecxTt crêSov rj TTOvrjpa avai-
(TXvvTLa, 8ia 8r] Tivo<; e\ev6epia<; Xiav dTTOTeroXfiy]-
/j,evi]<i.
ME. AXrjOearara Xeyei^;.

AP). 'E0e^7'}9 ht) TavTT) rfj eXevdepia r) tov fxrj
iOeXeiv Tot? apôvcri SovXeveiu ylyvoiT av, kuI

eiTOfievr] TavTj) cf)€vy€iv TraT/Oo? /cal fx,r]Tpo<; kuI
TTpea^vTepcov hovXeiav Kal vovdeTrjaiv} koI iyyv<i
TOV T€Xov<i ova I vofioov ^rjTelv firj utti^kooi^ elvai,
7r/J09 avTw he i^Sr) tm TeXei opKcov ical irLcrTewv
icai irapd-nav Oeoiv /xt) cppovTLêiv, Tr]v Xe-
TO
yo/nevrjv [rraXacdv] ^ TiTaviKrjv (pvcnv eTTiSeiKvOcrt
C Kal /j,i/j.ovfMevoi<;- eVt to, avTo, ttoXiv i/cetva d(f}i-
KOfxevov<;, )(âXeiTov alSiva BidyovTa<; firj XrjâiiroTe
KaK(av. TtVo? S77 Kal Tav6' r^puv av X"-P'^^
^^^X'^'^ >
Selv (f)aLveTai efioiye, olovirep tov Xoyov ittttov,

eKd<jT0T6 dvaXafx^dveiv, Kal (jurj Kaddrrep d^dXc-
D vov KeKTTjfievov ^ to aTOfia ^la vtto tov Xoyov
(pepofjLevov KaTa ttjv Trapoi/xiau diro tlvo^ ovov
irecrelv, aXV eTravepwTav to viiv hrj Xe^dev, to
rivo'i 8r] [xapti'] * eveKa TUVTa iXi^^V /
ME. KaX(o<i.
A0. TavTa Toivvv e'iprjTai eKeivcov eveKa.
ME. TlVO)V ;
A0. 'EXeâ/iev w? tov vop-oOeTrfv hel rpLOiv
^ vovOfTTjffiv minor MSS. vo/xodfTrjffiv best MSS., Zur.

:
- [TraAoiav] bracketed by W.-Mollendorff.

* KfKTrififVov W.-MoUendorff: KeicrriiJ.fvov MSS.
*
[x<^P"'] bracketed by Hermann (?«/e/ca by Bast, Schanz).
248
LAWS, BOOK III
liberty. For, thinking themselves knowing, men

became fearless and audacity begat effrontery.
;
For to be fearless of the opinion of a better man,

owing to self-confidence, is nothing else than base
effrontery and it is brought about by a liberty that
;
is audacious to excess.
MEG. Most true.
ATH. Next after this form of liberty would come
that whicli refuses to be sul)ject to the rulers ;^ and,
following on that, the shirking of submission to
one's parents and elders and their admonitions
then, as the penultimate stage, comes the effort to
disregard the laws while the last stage of all is to
;
lose all respect for oaths or pledges or divinities,

wherein men display and reproduce the character
of the Titans of story, who are said to have re\ erted
to their original state, dragging out a painful
existence with never any rest from woe. What,
again, is our object in saying all this? Evidently, I
must, every time, rein in my discourse, like a horse,
and not let it run away with me as though it had no
bridle 2 in its mouth, and so "get a toss off the
donkey " ^ (as the saying goes) consequently, I
:
must once more repeat my question, and ask

" With what object has all this been said ? "
MEG. Very good.
ATH. What has now been said bears on the
objects previously stated.
MEG. What were they.''
ATH. We said * that the lawgiver must aim, in
» Cp. Rrp. iv. 424 E. * Cp. Eur. Bcwch. 385.
* A play on ox' ovov =
axh vov " to fall oflF the ass " was
:
a proverhial phrase for " to show oneself a fool " : cf. Arist.
Xube^ 1274 rf SiJTa Xtiptis, Sm-wto kw' ivov Kar«weaiv.
:
* Cp. 693 B.
249
PLATO
(TTOX^^Ôfiepou voôOerelv, oVo)? rj vofwderovfiivr)
TToKt.^ iXevdepa re earai koI (plXrj kavTrj /cat voift
eêi. TavT r^v. rj yap ;
ME. Yidvv fiev ovv.
E A®. Tovrcov eveKU
Srj TroA-treta? tijv t€ Beairo-
TiKcoTdTTjv TTpoeXo/xevot Koi rrjv eXevdepLKwrdrriv,
eTTiaKOTTOv/uLev vvvl TTorepa tovtwv 6p6ci)^ ttoXi-
reverar Xa/Soi'Te? hk avroiv 6KaTepa<i /jLerpioTTjTd
Tiva, 70)1/ fxev rov Seairoêiv, rcbv Se tov iXevOe-
piaaai, KaTeiSo/xev on Tore 8ia(f)ep6vT(0(; iv avTal<i
iyevero evirpayia, rb dxpov dyayovTcov
eirl 8e
eKarepoov, tcov fiev SovXeia^;, rwv 8e TOvvavTLov,
ov (Tvvi']veyKev oine roU ovre rol<i.
702 ME. ^ AXijOearara Xeyei<;.
A0. Kal firfv avTMV ye eveKa koi to AwpiKot
iOeaadfxeOa KaTOLKi^6p,evov cnpaTOTreBov Kal TUf
rov Aaphdvov viTa>pela<i re Kal rqv eirl OaXdrrrj
KaroLKicriv, Kal rov<i 7rpuiTov<i Stj rov<; TrepiXiirel'i
yevofievov^ rr}<i (f)Oopd<;, en 8e Toy? epirpoa-Oev
rovTcov yevo/xevov<i rjfuv X6yov<i irepi re p.ovcnKr]<i
Kal fiedt}^ Kal rd rovrcov en rrporepa. ravra
yap irdvra eiprjrai rov KariSecv eveKa tto)? ttot'
B av TToXt? dptara oIkolt], Kal Ihia 7r(o<i dv ra
êXriara rov avrov îov Siaydyoi. el 8e 87] ri
TreTTOcy'jKa/jLev -npovpyov, Ti<i rror' av eXeyxoî
yiyvotro r)p.lv rrpo^ r]p.d<i avrovf Xe^^êt?, (u
M.€yiXX€ re Kal KXeivla ;
KA. '£70) riv , S) ^€V€, fioi 8oK(o Karavoelv
eoiKC Kara rv^V^ rivd rjpuv rd rcbv Xoytov rovrcov
irdvrwv oiv SieîjXOojuLev yeyovevai' a^'^hov yap
et? XP^^^^ avrSiv eycoy eXrjXvda rd vvv, Kal Kard
250
LAWS, BOOK ill
his legislation, at three objectives — to make the

State he is legislating for free, and at unity with
itself, and possessed of sense. That was so, was
it not ?
MEO. Certainly.
ATH. With these objects in view, we selected
the most despotic of polities and the most absolutely
free, and are now enquiring which of these is rightly
constituted. W^hen we took a moderate example
—
of each of despotic rule on the one hand, and
liberty on the other, —
we observed that there they
enjoyed prosperity in the highest degree but when ;
they advanced, the one to the extreme of slavery,

the other to the extreme of liberty, then there was
no gain to either the one or the other.
MEG. Most true.
ATH. With the same objects in view we surveyed,*
also, the settling of the Doric host and the homes
of Dardanus at the foot of the hills and the colony
by the sea and the first men who survived the Flood,
together with our previous discourses ^ concerning
music and revelry, as well as all that preceded these.
The object of all these discourses was to discover
how best a State might be managed, and how best the
individual citizen might pass his life. But as to the
value of our conclusions, what test can we apply
in conversing among ourselves, O Megillus and
Clinias?
CLIN.I think. Stranger, that I can perceive one.
It isa piece of good luck for me that we have dealt

with all these matters in our discourse. For I myself
have now come nearly to the point when I shall need
* i.e. in Bk iii. 676-693 (taken in the reverse order),
' i.e. in Books i. and iL
25»
PLATO
Tiva av Kaipov crv re koX
7rapay€yova<{ aîa
y[eyiXko<; 68e. ov yap a^co ro
aTroKpv-yfro/xai
C vvv ifiol ^vp,/3alvov, dWa
koX irpof olcovov riva
TTOLOvpxti. Tj yap TrXeiaTi] t^9 K.pr]rr)<i iirfXêLpel
Tiva diroLKLav iroirjaaaOai, Kal irpoardrTei tol^
Kv(ocri,oi<; iinfieXrjdijvac rov irpdypMro^, r) Be tmv
K-vooabcov 7roXi9 i/xoL re kuI dWot,<; evvea' a/j,a Be
Kal v6/jLov<; rcou re avrodi, et Ttve^ rjpd'; dpicrKovai,
rideadai xeXevet, Kal et Ttpe<; erepoiOev, p,r]hev
vTToXoyiô/jievov^; to êviKov avTO)v, dv êXTiov<;
<f)aLV(t)VTai. vvv ovv ifxoi re Kal vpuv raurrjv Bcofiev
D '^dpiv' €K TOiv elprjpevcov iK\eâvTe<i tw \6ya)
avaTrjacofieda iroXtv, olov i^ dpx^rj<i KaToiKiôvTes,
Kal dp,a fiev rjfilv ov ^rjTov/xev eiriaKe'^L^ yevrjae-
Tat, dpa S' €761) Td)(^ av 'x^prfaai.pTjv et? t^v
fieWovaav ttoXlv Tavrrj ttj crvaTdcret.
A0. Ou TToXep-ov ye o) KXeivia'
eirayyeXXei'i,
aX\' el jxr) TV M.eyiXX(p 7rp6aavTe<i, to. Trap" €p,ov
ye rjyov crot irdvra Kara vovv VTrdp)(êtv et?
Bvvap,iv.
KA. Ei5 Xeyeitf.
ME. Kai /jLT]v Kal TO, Trap* dfiov.
E KA. K.dXXiaT elptjKarov. drdp 7reipd)fie6a

Xoyoi irpoiTov KaTOiKiêiv ttjv ttoXiv.
«5»
LAWS, BOOK III
them, and my meeting with you and Megillus here

was quite opportune. I will make no secret to you
ol wliat has befallen me ;nay, more, 1 count it to
be a sign from Heaven. The most part of Crete
is undertaking to found a colony, and it has given
charge of the undertaking to the Cnosians, and

the city of Cnosus has entrusted it to me and nine
others. We are bidden also to frame laws, choosing
such as we please either from our own local laws or
from those of other countries, taking no exception
to their alien character, provided only that they
seem superior. Let us, then, grant this favour to
me, and yourselves also let us select from the
;
statements we have made, and buUd up by argu-

ments the framework of a State, as though we were
erecting it from the foundation. In this way we
shall be at once investigating oiu- theme, and
possibly I may also make use of our framework for
the State that is to be formed.
ATH. Your proclamation, Clinias, is certainly not
a proclamation of war ! So, if Megillus has no
objection, you may count on me to do all I can to
gratify your wish.
CLIN. It is good to hear that.
MEG. And you can count on me too.
CLIN. Splendid of you both !But, in the first
place, let us try to found the State by word.
•S3
704 Ae. <t>e/3e Bij, riva hel Siavot)dr]vai trore ttjv
TToXiv eaeadai ; Xe7&) he. ov ti rovvofia avTrj^
ipcoToJv 6 Tt ttot' €(ttI TO, vvv, ovh^ etv Tov erreiTa
')lp6vov 6 Tf herjaet KaXelv avT^V tovto fiev yap
To,-)âv t(Tco<; Kal 6 KaToiKia/jLO<i avTrj<; ?; rt?
TOTTO? ^ TTorapLOV Tivb<i rj Kpi]P7j<; rf deiav iircovvfiia
Twv iv TO) TOTTft) TTpoadeir), ttjv avrcav (prjfirjv
B Kaivfi yewMfievt] ^
rfj TroXet'roBe Be Trepl avri)^
iarlv /3ovX6fjL6vo<i /xaXXov eVe/JtuTW, nrorepov
eTTLOaXarrihioi; earai ri<i 77 'xêpaala.
KA.^xeBov, CO ^^ve, cnrkyeL daXaTrr]^ 76 i]
TToXf? ^9 irkpi TO, vvv Bt) Xe')(6evTa Tj/xtv el'? rtva<;
oySot'jKOVTa crTaBiov;.
A0. Tt 8e ; Xifi€ve<; ap elal Kara ravra avTrj^,
rj TO Trapdirav aXip.evopa TTorepa 7rdfi(f)opo TOTTCp yeV0/jL€V7] TTJV )(^Q)paV
TavTi-jv eprjfiov direipyaarai, 'y^povov dyLr]')(avov
oarov.
* 7€»') tt/xii-ri Apelt : 'y(fon4>ni MSS.
•54
BOOK IV
ATH. Come now, what is this State going to be,
we suppose ? I am not asking for its present
shall
name or the name it will have to go by in the
future ; formight be derived from the con-
this
ditions of its settlement, or from some locality, or
a river or spring or some local deity might bestow
its sacred title on the new State. The point of my
question about it is rather this, is it to be an —
inland State, or situated on the sea-coast?
cLix. The State which I mentioned just now,
Stranger, lies about eighty stades, roughly speaking,
from the sea.
ATH. Well, has it harbours on the sea-board side,
or is it quite without harbours ?
CLIN. It has excellent harbours on that side.
Stranger, none better.
ATH. Dear me how unfortunate ^ But what of
I I
the surrounding country ? Is it productive in all

respects, or deficient in some products ?
CLIN. There is practically nothing that it is
deficient in.
ATH. Will there be any State bordering close
on it?
CLiN. None at all, and that is the reason for
settling it. Owing to emigration from this district
long ago, the country has lain desolate for ever so
long.
* This remark is explained by what is said below, 705 A ff.
«5S
PLATO
A0. Tt S' av ; irehitov re kuI opcov Kal vXt}^
TTftx; fxepo<i CKaarcov rjpuv ei\r})êv ;
D KA. Y[pocreoiK6 rfi Tfi<i aX\t]<; Kp^Tt]<i <f)va€i

oXt],
A0. Ypa'^vrepav avTrjv rj TreSieivorepav &
\€yoi<;.
KA. Udvv fiev ovv.
A0. Ov
TOLVVv dvLaro<i ye av eh] 7rp6<; dperfji;
KTTJaiv. el /jLev yap eTriPaXarTia re e/xeXXev eJpai
Kal ev\Lfjiei'o<i Kal /mt) rrdpcfiopo's dW' eVtSer^?
TToXXcov, peyaXov Tiv6<i eBei acorrjpoî re avrfj
Kal vopoOeroiv Beiaiv rivSiv, el firj TroWd re
E epêWev tfOrj Kal rroLKiXa Kal <âv\a eêiv roiavri]
^vaei yevofievr)' vvv he rrapapLvOiov e;^6f to ro)v
oySo^Kovra crraSicov. eyyvrepov fiev rot rov
Beovro<; Kelrai t?}? Oa\drrri<;, a')(ehov oaov ev\i-
fievcorepav avrrjv </>77? elvat. 6p(o<; Se dyamqrqv
705 Kal rovro. TrpocroiKoi; yap ddXarra %(wpa to p.ev
Trap' eKdarrjv rjpepav t}Bv, p,dXa ye prjv ovrw^
dXp^vpov Kal iriKpov yeirovrjfia' epîropla^ yap
Kal 'x^prjfiaricTpov Sia Karr)fkelaaavTQ)<i. irapapLvdi-ov he Btj 7rpo<;
B TauTa Kal ro rrdpLôpo^ elvat KeKrrjrai, rpa')(ela

he ovaa hrjXov tw? ovk av 7roXv(f)opo<i re etr) Kal
7rdp,(f)opo<i djJLa. rovro yap eôvaa, rroXXrjv
eâycoyrjv av rrapexopevr), vopi(7p,aro<i dpyvpov
Kal ')(^pvaov rrdXiv dvrep.TriirXair dv, ov /xeiôv
KaKov, 0)9 eVo? elirelv, iroXei dvB" evb<; ev ovhev
?56
LAWS, BOOK IV
ATH. How about plains, mountains and forests ?
What extent of each of these does it contain ?

CLIN. As a whole, it resembles in character the
rest of Crete.
ATH. You would call it hilly rather than level ?
CLIN. Certainly.
ATH. Then it would not be incurably unfit for
the acquisition of virtue. For if the State was to
be on the sea-coast, and to have fine harbours, and
to be deficient in many products, instead of pro-
ductive of everything, —
in that case it would need
a mighty saviour and divine lawgivers, if, with such
a character, it was to avoid having a variety of
luxurious and depraved habits.^ As things are, how-
ever, there is consolation in the fact of that eighty
stades. Still, unduly near the sea, and the
it lies
more you say, its harbours are good
so because, as
that, however, we must make the best of. For the
sea is. in very truth, " a right briny and bitter
neighbour," ^ ilthough there is sweetness in its
proximity for the uses of daily life ; for by filling the
markets of the city with foreign merchandise and re-
tail trading, and breeding in men's souls knavish and
tricky ways, it renders the city faithless and loveless,
not to itself only, but to the rest of the world as
well. But in this respect our State has compensation
in the fact that it is all- productive ; and since it is
hilly, it cannot be highly productive as well as all-
productive if 't were, and supplied many exports,
;
it would be flooded in return with gold and silver

—
money the one condition of all, perhaps, that is
» Op. Arist. Pol. vii. 6.

* Quoted from Alcman.
257
PLATO
av yCyvoiTO eh yevpatcov Ka\ SiKaicov rjdSiv KTrjaiv,
«!)<? eâ/jbev, el fiefivrj/xeda, iv roU irpoadev
\070t?.
KA. AXXa fi€fjLvi]ne9a, koX auy^copovfiev totc
Xeyeiv r)/j.d^ 6pdoi<i Koi ra vvv.
C A0. Tt Se hrj ; vavTrrjyqcri/jLrjq v\t)<; 6 totto?
rjfuv tt}? ^(opwi TTft)? e;êt ;
KA. OvK
ovre ri^ eXdrr) Xoyov aîa ovt
ecTTiv
av -rrevKT], Kvndpnro^ re ov
iroXXr]' ttltvv t av
Kal TrXdravov oXlyqv av evpoi rt?, ot? 8r] irpo^ ra
T(ov evTo^ T(ov irXoiayv fiiprj dvayKalov T0t9 vav-
7r>/70t? y^pr]adai, eKdaro-re.
A0. Kai ravra ovk av KaKO)<i ^)(ôi rrj %ft)/3a
Trj<i (pvaeax;.
KA. Tt 8-1]
D A0. Mf/LtT/cret? TTovTjpai; /xifxeiadai toi'9 7ro\e-

fjLi,ov<i fjLT] paSt'w? BvvaadaC riva ttoXlv dyaBov.
KA. Ei9 8)7] Tt TUiv elpr]/jLev(i)v ^X€y{ra<i €lrre<;.o
\e7et9 ;
A0, 'fl Saifiovie, (jyvXaTri fie et? to KaT dp-)(^d^

elprifievov diro^XeTTcov, to irepX tmv KprjriKwv
vo/xcov,ft)? Trpo? €v Ti fiXenoiev' Kal 8r] Kal tovt
iXeyirijv avTO elvat a(j)u> to tt/jo? toi' TroXefWV,
iyoj Be uTToXa^cov elirov tu? oti p.ev et? dperrjv ttoi
^Xeirot TO, ToiavTa vofî/ia Kei/xeva KaXco'i e%ot,
TO 8 on irpos fiepot aXV ov Trpo? irdaav <Tê86v
E ov Trdvv ^vvexf^povv. vvv ovv v/j.el<; /xoi t^9
Trapovaijq vofioBeaia^ dvTt(f)v\dâTe eirofievoi idv
apa Ti /XT] Trpo? dpeTrjV retvov rj upo? dpeTi]<i
fiopiov vopLodero). rovrov yap 8r] rideaOai rov
vofiov 6pda)<i viroTLde/jLai fiovov, 09 av 8iKrjv roôrov
€KdcrT0T€ aro'X^d^'qTai, tovtov otq) av avveôiii
«58
LAWS, BOOK IV
most fatal, in a State, to the acquisition of noble
—
and just habits of life, as we said, if you remember,
in our previous discourse.^
CLIN. We remember, and we endorse Avhat you
said both then and now.
ATH. Well, then, how is our district off for timber
for ship-building ?
CLIN. is no fir to speak of, nor pine, and
There
but cypress; nor could one find much larch or
little
plane, which shipwrights are always obliged to use
for the interior fittings of ships.
ATH. Those, too, are natural features which
would not be bad for the country.
CLIN. Why so ?
ATH. That a State should not find it easy to copy

its enemies in bad habits is a good thing.
CLIN. To which of our statements does this
observation allude ?
ATH. My dear Sir, keep a watch on me, with an
eye cast back on our opening - statement about the
Cretan laws. It asserted that those laws aimed at
one single object and whereas you declared that
;
this object was military strength, I made the

rejoinder that, while it was right that such enactments
should have virtue for their aim, I did not at all
approve of that aim being restricted to a part,
instead of applying to the whole. So do you now,
in turn, keep a watch on my present law-making, as
you follow it, in case I should enact any law either
not tending to virtue at all, or tending only to a part
of it For I lay it down as an axiom that no law is
rightly enacted which does not aim always, like an
archer, at that object, and that alone, which is
» Cp. 679 B. » Cp. 625 D, 629 E flf.
259
PLATO
706 [tovtg)!'] ra)v^ del kuXmv rt ^vve-rrrjrai fiovov, to, Be
dXka Pv^Travra TrapaXeLTrrj, edv re ri<; ttXoOto"?
idv re dpa ti tmv dWwv tcov tolovtcov ov TV'y)(^dvr)
dvev TCOV TrpoeipTjfMevcov. rr)v Se Brj fxifjurjcni'
eXeyov ttjv rSiv TroXe/xLcov ttjv kuktjv ToidvSe
yiyveaOac, orav oIkt} fxiv Tt? TTpo<; daXdrrr),
XvirrjTai S' viro TroXefiitov, olov —
cppdao) yap ov ri
/jLvrjcriKaKelv ôvX6fievo<i vfxiv. MtVo)? yap Stj
^
TTOTC Toi'9 oIkovvtu^ TTjV Attikt]v 7rapeaT7]aaTO

B et9 yaXeTTrjv rtva (f)opdv Baapôv, Bvvafiiv ttoXXtjv
/card ddXarrav Keicrr}p.evo<i. ol 8' ovje tto) irXola
eKeKrrjVTO, Kuddirep vvv, TroXefiiKd, ovt av rrjv
')(u)pav TrXrjpr] vavTrrjyrjaipâiv ^vXo)V, atar €v/j,ap(o<;
vavTiKTjv Trapaaxâdai, 8vvap,iv' ovkovv oloi t

eyevovro Bid p.ip,i](r€(o<; vavTiKrj^ avroX vavrat
yev6p,€voi €v6v^ Tore tou? TroXe/it'ou? dp,vvaadai.
eri, ydp dv TrXeovdKi'i eirrd diroXeaai iraiBwi ay-
C Tot9 (TvvrjveyKe, irplv dvTC Trei^wv ottXltmv p-ovlfxtov
vavTiKOv]aKeiv fi€vovTa<; e7ricf)epop,€va)v TToXep.iwv, dXX

ecKVLWi avTol<i yiyveadab '7rpo(f)d<Tei<i Kal (T(f)68pa
kroipba'i OTrXa re diroXXvac Kal (êvyovcri, Brj riva^
ovK al(r)(pd<;, &<; (f)aai, ^vyd-^. ravra ydp eK
vavTiKpjf OTrXtreia? epyp,ara ^ (fiiXel ^vp.âiveiv,
OVK dîa iiratvcov 7ro\Xa«t? p,vpt(ov, aXXa rovvav-
D TLov eOr] ydp irovqpd ovBeTTore ediêiv Bel, Kal
ravra ro rmv iroXiroiV êXriarov p,epo<i. rjv Be
TTOV rovro ye Kal Trap' Op.tjpov Xaêlv, on ro
^ [rovToiv] rS>v : rovroov (or tov rwv) MSS.

260
LAWS, BOOK IV
constantly accompanied by something ever-beautiful,
—passing over every other object, be it wealth or
anything else of the kind that is devoid of beauty.
To illustrate how the evil imitation of enemies,
which I spoke of, comes about, when people dwell
by the sea and are vexed by enemies, I will give
vou an example (though with no wish, of course, to
recall to you painful memories). When Minos, once
upon a time, reduced the people of Attica to a
grievous payment of tribute, he was very powerful
by sea, whereas they possessed no warships at that
time such as they have now, nor was their country
so rich in timber that they could easily supply
themselves with a naval force. Hence they were
unable quickly to copy the naval methods of their
enemies and drive them off by becoming sailors
themselves. And indeed it would have profited
them to lose seventy times seven children rather
than to become marines instead of staunch foot-
soldiers ; for marines are habituated to jumping
ashore frequeutly and running back at full speed to
their ships, and they think no shame of not dying
boldly at their posts when the enemy attack and ;
excuses are readily made for them, as a matter of

course, when they fling away their arms and betake
themselves to what they describe as " no dis-
honourable flight." These "exploits" are the usual
result of employing naval soldiery, and they merit,
not "infinite praise,'' but precisely the opposite; for
one ought never to habituate men to base habits, and
least of all the noblest section of the citizens. That
such an institution is not a noble one might have been
- iiyyfiara : l>-hfJ-aTa MSS. (bracketed by Schanz)

261
PLATO
eTnTrjSev/xa rjv to toiovtov ov koXov. 0Si'0"0"et»9
fyap avT(p \oi8opei rbv Aya/xe/xvova,' tmv ^ A-)(âiwv
roT€ VTTO TMV Tpcocov KaTex,o/jiei>o)V rfi fiaxV'
KcXevovra ra? vavs et? tt)v OdXaTrav Ka9e\Keiv,
o he ')i^d\e'JTaivei re avr& Kat Xiyet
09 KeXeat iroKefioio avveaTaoro'i koI avT?}?
E vr)a<ievaaiX-fiovî aXaS* e\K€iv, o^p en
fiaWov
lipwal jxev evKTO, yevrjrai ieXSofiivoiaL irep
epirrj^,
rjficv 8' aliTV'i oXedpo^ iirippeTrr)' ov yap
'Aâtoi
iroXefiov vr}a>v aXaS^ eXKO/aevdcov,
(T')(^rj(rovaLv
aX,V aTroTTainaveovaLv, ipcoijcrovai Be )(^dp/jL7j<i.

707 evOa K€ arj ôvXr) BrjXijcreTai, oV dyopevei'i.
ravT ovv eyiyvaxTKe Kot €Ketvo<;, on kukov ev
daXaTTT} rpLrjpei<; OTrXirai^ Trapecrroyaat yiia;\ô-
p,evoL<i' Kol Xeovre<i av eXdcpov^ eOiaOelev (feeuyeiv
TOiouroi<; eOecri 'X^pcofievor npo^ Be tovtoi^ at Bid
rd vavTiKa TToXecov Bvvdfiei^ d/ia crwTripia^^ n/iia<i
ov Tw KaXXi(TT(p rcov iroXepiKcov aTroBiBoaai. Bid
KvêpvrinKrj<; yap xal TrevTT]Kovrap-)(lia<; Kal ipe-
B TiKrjf; Kal TravroBaTTOiV Kal ov irdvv airovBaicov
dvdpd)7ra)V yiyvofievr]'; rd<; n/j,d<; cKdaTOi^ ovk av

BvvaiTO 6p6Si<i aTroBiBovac rt?. Kai tol ttw? av
en TToXirela yiyvoLro opdrj tovtov arepop-evr] ;
KA. ^')(eBov dBvvarov. dXXd fii]v, o) êve, rrjv

ye irepl 'âXapuva vavpiaîav rcov 'EXXtjvcov tt/jo?
Toi/? 0ap/3dpov<; yevopAvqv 'qfxei<; ye ol KprJT€ri)pias Badham, Schanz <rcor7ipt(f MSS.
:
263
LAWS, BOOK IV
learnt even from Homer.
For he makes Odysseus
abuse Agamemnon the Achaeans to
for ordering
liaul down their ships to tlie sea, when they were
being pressed in fight by the Trojans and in his
;
wrath he speaks thus ^ :
" Dost bid our people hale their fair-benched ships

Seaward, when war and shouting close us round ?
So shall the Trojans see their prayers fulfilled.
And so on us shall sheer destruction fall I
For, when the ships are seaward drawn, no more

Will our Achaeans hold the battle up.
But, backward glancing, they will quit the fray
Thus baneful counsel such as thine will prove.''
So Homer, too, was aware of the fact that triremes
lined up in the sea alongside of infantry fighting on
land are a bad thing why, even lions, if they had
:
habits such as these, would grow used to running

away from does I Moreover, States dependent upon
navies for their power give honours, as rewards for
their safety, to a section of their forces that is not
the finest ; for they owe their safety to the arts of
—
the pilot, the captain and the rower men of all
—
kinds and not too respectable, so that it would be
impossible to assign the honours to each of them
rightly. Yet, without rectitude in this, how can it
still be right with a State ? ^
CLIN. It is well-nigh impossible. None the less.
Stranger, it was the sea-fight at Salamis, fought by
the Greeks against the barbarians, which, as we
Cretans at least affirm, saved Greece.
» n. xiv. 96 ff.
* Cp. 697 B, 757 Af
263
PLATO
Ae. Kal yap ol ttoXXoI rcav 'RWtJvwv re xal
C âp^dpoov Xiyovcri ravra. i7;u.et9 8e, o) 0tA,e, iyo)
T€ Kal oBe, MeyiXXo?, (pafxeu rrjv ire^rjv fid-)(r}v
rrjv iv MapaOMvi yevofievTjv Kal iv Tl\araiaiv rore ^vaaMcracrMV r^fia^; fiaxfi^V' tt/jo?
yap rfi rrepl âXa/xiva rrjv Trepl ro Aprepicriov ^
(TOO TTpoadijcTb) Kara doKarrav fid'^rfp, dWa

D yap drro ^Xeirovre^ vvv Trpo? iroXireia^ dperrjv Kal
')^d}pa<i (pvcriv (TKOTrov/xeda Kal vofioyv rdîv, ov ro
(TcoêaOai re Kal elvai [xovov dvdpQ)7roi<; ri^xica-
rarov Kaddirep ol iroWoi, ro 5' &)<?
rjyov/j.€voi,
êXricrrovi yiyveaOal re Kal elvai rocrourov
'Xpovov oaov av (oaiv. e'iprjrai S' rj/jilv, olfiai, Kal
rovro iv rot? irpoadev.
KA. Tt firjv ;
A0. ToDto roLvvv (TKOTrcofxeda fxovov, el Kara
rrjv avrrjv oSov ip^6/u,e6a /BeXrlarrjv ovaav rroXecri
KaroiKLaecov irepi Kal vofioOeaicov.
E KA. Kai TToXv ye.
Ae. Aeye hrj roivvv ro rovroi<; e^%, rt? 6
KaroiKi^6fievo<; vp.iv Xecb^ earat ; irorepov i^
dirdarj^ K/jr^T?;? 6 edeXwv, to? 0)(^\ov rivo'i iv
rai<{ TToXecriv eKdarai<i yeyevrjp,evov 7rXeiovo<;
fj Kara rrjv ix rrj^ yr)^ rpo(f)r]v ; ov ydp rrov
rov ôvX6p,ev6v ye 'EXXt^vwv avvdyere. koa,
roi riva<} v/xtv eK re "Apyovi op5i Kal Alylvrj^ Kal

708 aXXodev rcov 'EXXijvcov eh rrjv 'ywpav KarmKia-
1 Cp. 637 C£
264
LAWS, BOOK IV
ATH. Yes, that is what is said by most of the

—
Greeks and barbarians. But we that is, 1 mvself
—
and our friend Megillus affirm that it was the land-
battle of Marathon which began the salvation of
Greece, and that of Plat-aea which completed it
and we affirm also that, whereas these battles made
the Greeks better, the sea-fights made them worse,
— if one may use such an expression about battles
that helped at that time to save us (for I will let you
count Artemisium also as a sea-fight, as well as
Salamis). Since, however, our present object is
the natural character of a
political excellence, it is
country and its legal arrangements that we are
considering so that we differ from most people in
;
not regarding mere safety and existence as the most

precious thing men can possess, but rather the
gaining of all possible goodness and the keeping of
it throughout life. This too, I believe, was stated
by us before.^
CLIN.It was.
—
ATH. Then let us consider only this, whether
we are travelling by the same road which we took
then, as being the best for States in the matter of
settlements and modes of legislation.
CLIN. The best by far.
ATH. In the ne:tt place tell me this :who are
the people that are to be settled ? Will they
comprise all that wish to go from any part of Crete,
supposing that there has grown up in every city a
surplus population too great for the country's food
supply ? For you are not, I presume, collecting all
who wish to go from Greece ; although I do, indeed,
see in your country settlers from Argos, Aegina, and
other parts of Greece. So tell us now from what
a65
PLATO
fievov<i' TO Se Br) irapov ri/xiv \iye TroOev eaeaOai
^^<? aTparoTreSov twi" ttoXltoov tu vvv ;
KA. "£« re K/97;'t7;? ^vfiTrdaij^; eoLKS 'yevrjaeadai,
Koi ro)v aWcov 8e 'EiWjjvwv /ndXiaTo, fxoi (f>aLVov-
rai Tou? airo TleXoTrowTjcrov irpoaheêaOat, ^vvol-
KOVi. Koi 'yap, vvv 87] \e76f9, dXr)de<; (f)pd^€i<;,
ft)? e^ "Apyov^; eluL, kuX to <ye p-dXiar evBoKi/xovv
TO. vvv ivOdSe yepo^, to ToprvviKov. ex T6pTVP0<;
yap Tvy)(^dv€i u'jrwK'qKO^ Tuvrrj ^
rrj<; lleXoTrovvrj-
(TiaKT)^.
B A0. Ov
rolvvv €VKo\o<i 6p,oi,Q)<; yiyvoiT av o
KaToiKi(Tfio<; rat? iroKeaiVtOrav /xi) rov rSiv eapSiv
yiyvTjTai rpoTrov, ev yevo^ diro ptd<i lop ')((opa<i
oiKL^TfTai, (f)i\ov irapa (piXcov, aT€i'0)(^(i)pca tivI
iroXiopKrjdev 7^9 i] Tiaiv dXXoi<; roioinoL'i iradrj-
paaiv dvayKacrdiv. eari 8' ot€ koi (nda-eai
^laôpevov dvayKaôtr av eripcocre aTTOêvovadai
TToXed)^ ri popiov r^Sr) Be irore Kal ^vvd-naaa
TToXi^ TtvQ)v ecjiuyev, dphrjv KpeiTTOvi Kpartjdetaa
C TToXefift). TauT* ovv irdvT^ iarl rfj pev paco
KaToiKLêadaC re xal vofiodeTelcrOai, rfj Se X^^^'
7T(OT€pa. TO pev yap ev ri elvai yevo<; opo^wvov
Kttl opovopov 6;^€t TLvd (f)iXLav, Koivcovov lepcbv ov
Kal rwv roiovrcov TrdvTcov, v6p,ov<; B' erepovs fcal
TToXneLa's dXXa^ to)v olKodev ovk e^TreTW? dv-
kyeTai, to V evlore irovr^pia vop,U3v iaraaiaKOti Kal
Sia avvrjdeiav i^t-jTOvv en ^PV^^^'- '^'^^^ avrol^
rjOeai, St' a Kal "nporepov e(f>ddpr), ;>âXe7roi' rat
KaroiKLôvTC Kal vopoOerovvrt, Kal BvaTreide^
D yCyverar to 8' av TravroBairov e? ravro ^wep-
^ raxjTQ : TavTrjs MSS., edd.

266
LAWS, BOOK IV
quarters the present expedition of citizens is likely
to be drawn.
CLIN. It will probably be from the whole of Crete ;
and of the rest of the Greeks, they seem most ready

to admit people from the Peloponnese as fellow-
settlers. For it is quite true, as you said just now,
that we have some here from Argos, amongst them
being the most famous of our clans, the Gortynian,
which is a colony from Gortys, in the Peloponnese.
ATH. It would not be equally easy for States to
conduct settlements in other cases as in those when,
like a swarm of bees, a single clan goes out from a
single country and settles, as a friend coming from
friends, being either squeezed out by lack of room
or forced by some other such pressing need. At
times, too, the violence of civil strife might compel
a whole section of a State to emigrate ;and on
one occasion an entire State went into exile, when
it was totally crushed by an overpowering attack.
All such cases are in one way easier to manage,
as regards settling and legislation, but in another
way harder. In the case where the race is one,
with the same language and laws, this unity makes
for friendliness, since it shares also in sacred rites
and all matters of religion but such a body does

;
not easily tolerate laws or polities which differ

from those of its homeland. Again, where such a
body has seceded owing to civil strife due to the
badness of the laws, but still strives to retain, owing
to long habit, the very customs which caused its
former ruin, then, because of this, it proves a
difficult and intractable subject for the person who
has control of its settlement and its laws. On the
other hand, the clan that is formed by fusion of
267
PLATO
pvrjKO'i 761/09 vTraKouaat fxev tlvcov vofxatv
KUivMV Taâ av ede\i']creie /xdWov, to 8e cvjjl-
TTvevaat Kai Kaddirep 'lttttcov êvyo^ kuO' ev ael ^
ravTov, TO Xeyo/bLevov, ^v/xtpvayaai ')(p6i>ov ttoXXov
Kal ira'yâKe'Trov. aW
oVtco? e'crrl vofioOeaia koI
TToXecov ocKiafiol ttuvtcov TeXeooTaTow ^ 7r/30<?
apeTTjv avSptbv.
KA. Et/to9* OTTTj S" av /3Xe7TQ)v TOVT €cp7]Ka<;,
^pd^ €Tl aa<p€JTT€pOV.
E A0. n yaOe, koiKa irepl vopLoOeTutv iiravicov
Kal aKOTTOiv dpa ipelv ti ical (âvXnv dXX! iav
7rpo<; Kaipov Tiva Xeycopev, '7rpdjp,a ovBkv yiyvotT
UP It/. KaC Toi Tt TTore Sva-xêpaipo) ; a^^ôv yap
TOi irdvTa ovtw<; coik e-)êiv TavOpwiTLva.
KA. Tov St) Trepi Xeyei^ ;
A0. Kp,eXXov Xeyeiv ouSet? Trore dvOpwiroiv

tw?
709 ovhev vo/MoOeTei, TV')(at he. koX ^vp(f)opal iravTocat
TT LIT TOV era TravTOio)^ vop,o9eTovcri to, irdvia rjpuv.
I,
7}yap 7roX€/i09Tt? ^laa-d/iievo^ dvcTpeyfre 7ro\iTeia<i

Kal psTeâXe vo/xov^, rj irevia'i ')(aXe'irr]<i diropLa'
TToXXa he Kal voaoi dvayKdôvai KaivoTopelv
Xoipoiv T€ epbimTTOVTwv, Kal )(^p6vov eirl ttoXvv
iviavTOiv TToXXcov TroXXaî? aKaipia^.^ Tuvra 8r)
Trdvra TrpolSoiv Ti? dîooaetev * av elirelv oTrep e^w
vvi> Si], TO 6vi]Tov pev p7]8eva vopodeTelv prjSev,
B Tvyâ^ 8 elvcLi a')(ehov diravTa to, dvdpdiiriva
irpdypaTa. to S' eaTi irepi T€ vavTiXiav xal
KVjSepvTjTiKTjv Kal laTpLKi-jv Kal (TTpaTrjyiKrjv irdvTa
TavT eijrovTa SoKeiv ev Xeyeiv dXXa yap o/iottu?
^ fv if\ : MSS. : ev eli Stallb. Schanz.

fva fls ,
^ T e\€ CUT druv Badham, Schanz -rtXtwrarov MSS.

:
268
LAWS, BOOK IV
various elements would perhaps be more ready to
submit to new laws, but to cause it to share in one
spirit and pant (as they say) in unison like a team
of horses would be a lengthy task and most difficult.
But in truth legislation and the settlement of States
are tasks that require men perfect above all other
men in goodness.
CLIN. Very probably but tell us still more clearly
;
the purport of these observations.

ATH. My good Sir, in returning to the subject of
lawgivers in our investigation, I may probably have
to cast a slur on them but if what I say is to the
;
point, then there will be no harm in it. Yet why

should I vex myself.'' For practically all human
affairs seem to be in this same plight.
CLIN. What is it you refer to ?
ATH. I was on the point of saying that no man
ever makes laws, but chances and accidents of all

kinds, occurring in all sorts of ways, make all our
laws for us. For either it is a war that violently
upsets polities and changes laws, or it is the distress
due to grievous poverty. Diseases, too, often force
on revolutions, owing to the inroads of pestilences
and recurring bad seasons prolonged over many
years. Foreseeing all this, one might deem it
—
proper to say as I said just now that no mortal —
man frames any law, but human affairs are nearly all
matters of pure chance. But the fact is that,
although one may appear to be quite right in saying
this about sea-faring and the arts of the pilot, the
physician, and the general, yet there really is some-
• axaiplas Stallb. a»to«p(o Zur. {axaiplcu MSS.

: ai.)
* aiitiaftty Heindorf : i^ttfy MSS.
269
PLATO
av KoX ToSe ecrri Xeyovra ev Xiyeiv iv rot? avTol<;
TOVTOl<i,
KA. To TTolov ;
A0. n?
êo9 [xev irdvTa Kal /xera Oeov rv^^r]
Kai Kaipo yap [êifiMVO';'] ^ ^vWa-
C êadai Kvêpv^jriKrjv rj fir/v ^ /xeya irXeoveKTrjfia
eycoy av Oe{,i]v. rj ttw? ;
KA. Oyxft)?.
A0. QvKOVv Kai T049 aXK,OL^ Q)(7avTco<; Kara
TOP avTov av eôi \6yov ; Kal Sr) Kal vofwdeaia
ravTov TOVTO horeov tmv aWwv û/xirnrTovTcov
oaa hel X^P^ ^vvTvêlv, el p,eX\oi ttotc evBai-
/xovft)? OLKijcretv, tov vo/jLodirijv d\T}deLa<; iôfievov
TTJ TOiavTT} TTapairecrelv eKciaroTe iroXei 8eiv.

KA. ÂXrjdecrrara Xeyei^;.
D A0. OvKovv 6 ye tt/oo? eKaajov ti rcov elprj-
fievcav €)(â)V rijv rexv^jv kolv evâaOal rrov Svvairo
6p6(j!) ^ Trapov avrut 8id rvx^l^ t%
rexyv^ civ fiovov eiriSeot ;
KA. Yldvv [Jb€V ovv.

A0. or re dXXot ye St) 7rdvT€<i ol vvv 8t)
p')]devre<i KeXevo/iievoi rrjv avTOiv evxvv elirelv

eiTTOiev dv. r) yap ;
KA. It fir]v ;
A0. TavTov Br) kclv * vop.odeTy]<;, olpai, Bpdaeiev.

KA. "£70)7' olfMai.
• bracketed by Badham, Schanz.

[Xdfi^^vosl
^
^ fiiiv MSS. (bracketed by Schanz)
: ^ /x-fi,
' Ti, <o Ti> rl MSS. : n, h Stephens.

:
* Kay Ka\ MSS. (&v for 5^ Schanz)

:
LAWS, BOOK IV
thing else that we may say with equal truth about
these same things.
CLIN. What is that ?
ATH. That God controls all that is, and that
Chance and Occasion co-operate with God in the
control of all human affairs. It is, however, less
harsh to admit that these two must be accompanied
by a third factor, which is Art. For that the pilots'
art should co-operate with Occasion —
verily 1, for
one, should esteem that a great advantage. Is it
not so ?
CLIN. It is.
ATH. Then we must grant that this is equally

true in the other cases also, by parity of reason-
ing, including the case of legislation. When all
the other conditions are present which a country
needs to possess in the way of fortune if it is
ever to be happily settled, then every such State
needs to meet with a lawgiver who holds fast to
truth.
CLIN. Very true.
ATH. Would not, then, the man who possessed
art in regard to each of the crafts mentioned be able
to pray aright for that condition which, if it were
given by Chance, would need only the supplement of
his own art ?
CLIN. Certainly.
ATH. And the other craftsmen mentioned
if all
just now were bidden to state the object of their
prayers, they could do so, could they not ?
CLIN. Of course.
ATH. And the lawgiver, I suppose, could do
likewise ?
CLIN. I suppose so.
171
PLATO
Ae. êpe 8t], vofioOera, 7rp6<; avrov (pMfxev, ri
<TOiKol TTw? TToXiv e-)(ov(7av Bcbfiev, Xaôov e^€i<i
axTT €K TMV XoLirSiv avrb'i rrjv ttoXlv l/cavw'i
^
BioiKrj(Tai ;
E KA. Tt fieTa TovT eiTrelv 6pdoi<i ecrriv apa ;
A0. ToO vo/xoOerov (fipd^cofiev rovto, ^ yap ;

KA. Nai.
ToSe* Tvpavvovfiivrjv fwi 86t€ ttjv rroXiv,
A0.
(^rjaer Tvpavvo^
S' ecrro) vko<; koX /itvrj/jLoyv koI
€v/xaOr]<i Kal avSpelo^ koI fieyaXoirpeTTT]'; (pvaei. o
Se Kal iv TOt? irpoadev eXeyojxev helv eireadai
^VfMTracTL TOt? Tr]<i aperrji; jxepeai, Kal vvv ttj
710 Tvpdvvov T)fuv ^ '^vxjj TOVTo ^vveireadai, iav fieXXr)
TOiv dXXoiv vTrap-)(ôvT(av 6(êXo<i elvai ri.
KA. X(0(f)pocrvvr)v fioi SoKel (f)pd^€iv, (o Me-
yiXXe, helv elvat ttjv ^vv€tto/jL€V7]v o êvof. rj yap
;
Ae. Trjv BrjfiwSrj ye, <w KXeLvia, Kal ov^ V^ '''*'»
(xejxvvvwv civ Xeyoi, (ppoprjaiv irpoa-avayKdôav
elvai TO aco(f)pov€iv, dXX^ oirep evOv<: iraial Kal
67]pioL<i, Tol ^ aKparS)^ e')(€LV 7rp6<; Ta<;
r}hovd<;, ^v/x(f)VTOv iiravOei, rot? Be iyKpaToî' o
B Kal fjuouovixevov ecpa/xev rwv iroXXtov dyadwv
Xeyo/xei'cov ovk dîov elvai Xoyov. e^jêre yap o
Xeyco TTOv.
KA. Hdvv fxev ovv.
* I follow here the arrangement of Ritter and Burnet.

' Tvpdvvov rifj-lv : M8S. {rvpavvov England)
Tvpavvovfi4vr)
8
<M> i add.
1 Cp. Bep. 473C ff., 486 A ff. « 696 D.
• 698 A
Phaedo 82 A. The "academic" (or philosophic)
;
identification of "virtue" with "wisdom" was a main

feature in the Ethics of Socrates cp. Rep. 430 D ; flf.
272
LAWS, BOOK IV
ATH. " Come now, O
lawgiver," let us say to him,
•'
what are we and what condition of
to give you,
State, to enable you, when you receive it, thence-
forward to manage the State by yourself satis-
factorily?"
GUN. What is the next thing that can rightly be
said?
ATH. You mean, do you not, on the side of the
lawgiver ?
CLIN, Yes.
ATH. This is what he will say " Give me the
:
State under a monarchy ^ and let the monarch be

;
young, and possessed by nature of a good memory,

quick intelligence, courage and nobility of manner;
and let that quality, which we formerly men-
tioned * as the necessary accompaniment of all the
\mrts of virtue, attend now also on our monarch's
soul, if the rest of his qualities are to be of any
value."
CLIN. Temperance, as I think, Megillus, is what
the Stranger indicates as the necessary accompani-
ment. Is it not ?
ATH. Yes, Clinias temperance, that is, of the
;
ordinary kind ^ not the kind men mean when they

;
use academic language and identify temperance with

wisdom, but that kind which by natural instinct
springs up at birth in children and animals, so that
some are not incontinent, others continent, in respect
of pleasures; and of this we said* that, when
isolated from the numerous so-called " goods," it was
of no account. You understand, of course, what I
mean.
CLIN. Certainly.
« 696 D.
«73
PLATO
Ae. TavTTjv roivvv r/fitv 6 Tvpavvo<i rr)v <f)vaiv
el fieWec 7r6\i<;
€^€Tco Trpo? iK€ivai<; Tai Trore yevoiro.
KA. n«09 8r} Koi rivi \6ya) rovro, w îve,

\eya)V dv ri<i 6p6u)<i \eyeiv avrov nreidoi ;
A0. ^Vahiov TTOV TOVTo voelv ear , w KXetw'a,y
Kara (f)vaiv w^ eart tovO^ oVrayii.
KA. riw? \iy€i<; ; el Tvpavvo<i yevotro, (f)]j<i,
vio<;, crdo^poov, evfia6i]<;, jJLvrjixcov, dv8peio<i, fieya-
XoTrpeTTJ]'? ;
A0. EuTf;^r;9, TrpocrOef, firj tear dWo, dWa

TO yevecrdai re eir avrov vo/j,oderi)v dîov eiraivov
D /cat riva rv)(^y]v et? ravrov dyayelv avrco. yevo-
fiivov yap rovrov irdvra (T)(ehov drreipyaarai. r&
derp, direp orav ôvXtjOt} hiaêp6vr(iirepov, oato irXeLOVi'
ocrq) 8' evavriov, ivavri,co<i.
KA. 'E« rvpavvlho'i dplcrnjv (f>rj<; yevecrdai

TToXcv dv, ft)? (f)alv€t, fiera vop-oOerov ye aKpov
Kal rvpdvvov Kocr/icov, Kal paard re Kal rd-^^Kxr
av fxeraâXelv el<i rovro ck rov roiovrov, Sevrepov
E 8e i^ oXtyap'X^La^. rj tto)? Xeyet? ; [kol to rpirov
CK 8r}p,0K parla<i.y-
^ [kuI . . . SrjuoKpa-rlas] bracketed by Hermann.
274
LAWS, BOOK IV
ATH. Let our monarch, then, possess this natural
quality in addition to the other qualities mentioned,
it" the State is to acquire in the quickest and best
way possible the constitution it needs for the happiest
kind of life. For there does not exist, nor could
there ever arise, a quicker and better form of consti-
tution than this.
CLIN. How and by what argument. Stranger,
could one convince oneself that to say this is to speak
the truth ?
ATH. It is quite easy to perceive at least this,
Clinias, that the facts stand by nature's ordinance in
the way described.
CLIN. In what way do you mean ? On condition,
do you say, that there should be a monarch who was
young, temperate, quick at learning, with a good
memory, brave and of a noble manner ?
—
ATH. Add also "fortunate," not in other res-
pects, but only in this, that in his time there should
arise a praiseworthy lawgiver, and that, by a piece
of good fortune, the two of them should meet for ;
if this were so, then God would have done nearly

everj-thing that he does when he desires that a
State should be eminently prosperous. The second
best condition is that there should arise two such
rulers ; then comes the third best, with three rulers ;
and so on, the difficulty increasing in proportion as

the number becomes greater, and vice versa.
CLIN. You mean, apparently, that the best State
would arise from a monarchy, when it has a first-rate
lawgiver and a virtuous monarch, and these are the
conditions under which the change into such a State
could be effected most easily and quickly and, next
to this, from an oligarchy— ;
or what is it you mean ?
275
PLATO
A0. OySa/ift)?, aX\ €K TVpavvlSo^ fiiv irpwrov,
Sevrepov 8e e'/c âaiXiKrji; TToXireia^, rpirov 8e ex
rivo<i8r]/jiOKpaTLa<i' to Se rirapTov, oKi'yap'via
Tov Toiovrov yeveaiv ^âXeTTooTara Bvpair av
rr)v
irpoaSiâaOar irXelcnoL yap ev avrrj BwdcTac
yiyvovrai. \eyop,6v 8t) tuvtu yiyveadcu Tore
orav aX'qdr)vaet, Koivr)
he avrm rf? ^Vfi^fj yvcofir)^ tt/jo? tou? iv rrj iroXet
711 fieyiarov hvvapLevov<;. ov S' av tovto apidpLW fiev
^pa-)(yTaTOv, icr'^vpoTaTOV he, Kaddirep ev tv-
pavvihi, yevTjTai, ravrrj kuI rare Ta;;ô? kuI
pacTTOOvr) rrj<; fieTaôXr]^ yiyveadai îXel.
KA. nft)9 ; ov yap fiavOdvofiev,
A0. Kal prjv etprjTai y rjpJiv ovx dira^ dW*,
otfiai, TToWaKi^;. vfiel^ he Taâ ovhe reOeacrOe
TVpavvovfiivijv TToXlV.
KA. Ovhe ye e7rcdufir]Tr] TVpdvvm peTUâXelv fiovXrjdivTi tto-
Xew? y]dr], iropeveadai he avTov hel irpoiTov TavTrj
OTTTjirep av edeXrjcrr], edv re irpo^ dpeTTj'i emTrjhev-
fiUTa irpoTpeTreaOat toi'9 TroXtra? edv re errX
TovvavTLOVy avTov irpoiTOv irdvra v7roypd(f)ovTa
TO) irpdTTeiv, to, p,ev etraivovvTa Kal TCficovTa, to.
C h' av 77/90? "^ôyov dyovTa, Kal tov /jltj Treidofievov
CLTip^dôvTa Kaff" eKdaTaii twv Trpdêcov.
KA. Kat 770)9 olcofieOa Ta')(y ^vvaKoXovOyaeiv
^ yvw/xri Badham : pdfxri MSS.
2f6
LAWS, BOOK IV
ATH. Not at all the easiest step is from a
:
monarchy, the next easiest from a constitutional

monarchy, the third from some form of democracy.
An oligarchy, which comes fourth in order, would
admit of the growth of the best State only with the
greatest difficulty, since it has the largest number of
rulers. What I say is that the change takes place
when nature supplies a true lawgiver, and when it
happens that his policy is shared by the most power-
ful persons in the State ; and wherever the State
authorities are at once strongest and fewest in
number, then and there the changes are usually
carried out with speed and facility.
CLIN. How so ? We do not understand.
ATH. Yet surely it has been stated not once, I
imagine, but many times over. But you, very likely,
have never so much as set eyes on a monarchical
State.
CLIN. No, nor have I any craving for such a
sight.
ATH. You would, however, see in it an illustration
of what we spoke of just now.
CLIN. What was that ?
ATH. The fact that a monarch, when he decides
to change the moral habits of a State, needs no
great efforts nor a vast length of time, but what he
does need is to lead the way himself first along the
desired path, whether it be to urge the citizens
towards virtue's practices or the contrary ; by his
personal example he should first trace out the right
lines, giving praise and honour to these things,
blame to those, and degrading the disobedient
according to their several deeds.
CLIN. Yes, we may perhaps suppose that the rest
277
PLATO
T0U9 aWov<i TToXiTUf Tft) TTjv roiavTTjv Treido) koi
a/xa îav etX7;(^0Tt ;
Ae. M7?Set9 77/Aa? TreiOeTO), (o (îXoi, aWrj
Oarrov koi paov êra^dWeiv av iroTe ttoXiv tov<;
vofiov^ ri rfi TO)v hvvaarevovTwv r]'yeixovLa, firjSe
vvv ye dWi] jiyveadai avOt^ ttotc y€v?]a'€-
firjS^
crdai. KOI yap ovv ov tout iaTiv dhiivarov
r/filv
D ovSe ')(a\e'7T0)<i av yevofxevov, akXa to5' ecrrt to
')(aKe'nov yevkaOai, koI oXlyov Brj to yey ovo'i ev
TO) TToWw ')(^p6vu)' orav Se ^vfi^f], /xvpia Kal
irdpT ev TToXei dyaOd dTrepydêrac, iv ^ ttot' av
iyyevrjrai.
KA. To TTolov St) X€yeiepov(7aiv(riv, ov
rfi Tov Xeyeiv pcofirj (f)aal rrdvrcov SieveyKovra
dvOpcoTTfov irXeov en rw aw^povelv Biacpepeiv.
rovT ovv erri jiev Tpoi.a<;, w? <f)acn, yeyovev, icf)'
Tjfxiov Be ouBa/jia)<i' el S' ovv yeyovev r] Kal yevrjae-
rai roiovro]Koot rwv e'/c rov
a-(ocf)povovvro<; arofxaro^ iovrcov Xoycov. toaauret)?
Be Kal ^vfiTrdat]!; Bvvdfieox; 6 avro<; irept X0709,
712 Q)9 orav et? ravrbv rat cppovetv re Kal crcii(f}poielv
T] fieyiarrj Bvvafxi<; ev dvOpdiTTw ^vfirrear], rare
7roXcreLa<i t/}? dplcrrr]^; Kal vofxwv ro)v roiovrayv
^verai yeveai<i, aA-Xto? Be ov /i»; ttotc yevrjrai.
ravra fxev ovv KaOaTrepel /xv06<i ra Xe^del^
xe^pv^^fîP^W^^} *^^^ eTriSeSei'xâ) rfj /iiev jfoXeirov
^78
LAWS, BOOK IV
of the citizens will quickly follow the ruler who
adopts such a combination of persuasion and force.
ATH. Let none, my friends, persuade us that a
State could ever change its laws more quickly or
more easily by any other way than by the personal
guidance of the rulers no such thing could ever
:
occur, either now or hereafter. Indeed, that is not

the result which we find it difficult or impossible to
bring about what is difficult to bring about is rather
;
that result which has taken place but rarely through-

out long ages, and which, whenever it does take
place in a State, produces in that State countless
blessings of every kind.
CLIN. Wliat result do you mean?
ATH. Whenever a heaven-sent desire for temperate
and just institutions arises in those who hold high
positions,— whether as monarchs, or because of con-
spicuous eminence of wealth or birth, or, haply, as dis-
playing the character of Nestor, of whom it is said that,
while he surpassed all men in the force of his eloquence,
still more did he surpass them in temperance. That
was, as they say, in the Trojan age, certainly not in
our time still, if any such man existed, or shall exist,
;
or exists among us now, blessed is the life he leads,

and blessed are they who join in listening to the words
of temperance that proceed out of his mouth. So like-
wise of power in general, the same rule holds good
whenever the greatest power coincides in man with
>visdom and temperance, then the germ of the best
poUty and of the best laws is planted ; ^ but in
no other way mil it ever come about. Regard this
as a myth oracularly uttered, and let us take it as
proved that the rise of a well-governed State is in
» Cp. Sep. 473 D.
279
PLATO
6v TO TToXiv euvofiou yCyveadai, tjj B\ etrrrep
yevoiTO Xejofiev, TrdvTwv rdîaTop re koI pdcnov
fxaKpo).
KA. "IcrcD?.^
B Ae. UeipcofMeOa Trpoaap/noTTOvTC^ tjj TvoXei
aoi, Kaddirep 7rai8e<i ^ irpeafivrai, TrXaTTClv tw
Xoyw Tou? vofiovi.
KA. "Iwfiev St] /XT] fieXX(i)/jL€P en.
Kot
AS. ©eof 8t) 7r/L)09 T^y Ti]<; TroXeco*; Karacr/cevrjp
eTTiKaXoofieda' o 8e aKovaeie re koI dKov(Ta<; TXetu?
€Vfi€vr]<; T€ T}iuv eXdoi a-vvBiaKocrfiijacov ttjv re
TToXlV Kal TOU? VOflOV^.
KA. "EXOoi yap ovv.
A0. 'AX.A,a TLva Srj irore TroXireLav eôfiev iv
C vm rfi TToXei TrpoaraTTeiv ;
KA. Olov Srj Tt X€yetpd^^ eri

aa(p€(TT€pov' olov SrjfxoKpariav Tivd rj oXiyap^lav
rj dpiaTOfcpaTiav t) âcnXiKrjv. ov yap Stj tv-
pavviha ye irov \eyoL<; dv, w? 7' ^fiel'; dv olrjdeirj-
/xev.
A0. êpe 8tj Toivvv, 7roTey0O9 vficop diroKpL-
vaadai Trporepo^; dv eOeXoi rrjv oikoi iroXirelav
eiwoiv, Ti^ rovTcov ecriv ;
ME. M(av ovv Tov Trpea^vrepov efie SixacoTepov

elirelv irporepov
D KA. "Icrw?.
ME. Kai firjv ^vvvo&v ye, w êve, rrjv iv Aaxe-
Saifiovi TToXtTecav ovk e)((i> (toi (^pdlêtv ovT(o<i
rjvTLva irpoaayopeveLv avrrjv Bel. Kal yap rv-
pavvihi hoKel fjLoi TTpoaeoiKevar rb yap tS)v
^ "laus.: Hais; MSS. {kclXSis Susemihl)
280
LAWS, BOOK IV
one way
is,
difficult, but in another way given, thai
—
the condition we mention it is easier by far and
—
quicker than anything else.
cuN. No doubt.
ATH. Let us apply the oracle to your State, and
so try, like greybeard boys, to model its laws by our
discourse.^
Yes, let us proceed, and delay no longer.
CLix.
ATH. Let us invoke the presence of the (iod at
the establishment of the State and may he hearken,
;
and hearkening may he come, propitious and kindly

to US-ward, to help us in the fashioning of the State
and its laws.
Yes, may be come
CLIN. !
Well, what form of polity

ATH. is it that we
intend to impose upon the State ?
CUN. What, in particular, do you refer to ? Ex-
plain still more clearly. I mean, is it a democracy,
an oligarchy, an aristocracy, or a monarchy ? For
certainly you cannot mean a tyranny : that we can
never suppose.
ATH. Come now, which of you two would like to
answer me first and tell me to which of these kinds
his own polity at home belongs?
MEG. Is it not proper that I, as the elder, should
answer first }
CLIN. No doubt.
MEG. when I reflect on the
In truth. Stranger,
Lacedaemonian polity, 1 am at a loss to tell you by
what name one should describe it. It seems to me
to resemble a tyranny, since the board of ephors it
» Cp. 746 A.
' ToTScs Paris MS. : vcuSa al. MSS., Zur.

s8i
PLATO
i(f>6p(ov dav/xaa-TM^ * w? rvpavviKov ev avrfi
yiyove. kul toi eviore /j,oi (âiverai traaoiv TOiv
TToXecov 'SrjfioKpaTOv/jLevrj /ndXiar eoiKevac. to S'
av fiT] (fidvat dpLaroKpariav avrrjv elvat Travrd-
E Tracriv oltottov. koL /j-rjv 8t) âaCKeia ye Bia ^lov
T iarlv iv avrfj KaX apxcuoTdrr] TracrSiv kuX 7rpo<i
irdvTcov dv6 pcoTTWv Kal Tjficov avTOJv Xeyo/iiprj.
iyo} Se ovTO) vvv iâL(f)Pr}<i dvepoortjOel^^ 6vt(o<;,
oirep eiirov, ovk e)((o Biopi,(Tdfi€vo TTokneiav tqvtwv tivcl Biia-^vpiôfievo^
elirelv.
A&. "Oi'Tft)? ydp, 0) dpiaroi, TroXireiMv fiere-
êre" a? Be oovofidKafiev vvv, ovk elaX TroXiTelai,
TToXecov Be OLKrjaeiî BeuiroôfxevoiV re koX Bov-
713 XevovaCiv fiepecnv eavroiv ricrl, to tov BecrtroTOV
Be eKdcTTT] TvpoaayopeveTai KpuTO'i. XPÎ^ ^ e'lirep
Tov^ TOiovTOV TTjv TToXiv eBei eTTOVO/xdêaOat, to
TOv dXr)da)<; TOiV tov vovv exovToyv Bea7r6ôvTOTQifievov ;
KA.* OvKovv XPV TavTTf Bpav ;
A©. TIdvv fiev ot)v. Tcav ydp Br) TToXecov (ov

B e/xTrpoaOev Td<; ^vvoiK7](r€i<s Bi7]X0o/j.ev, ert irpo-
Tepa TovTcov Trd/xTroXv XeyeTal Ti? ^PXV '^^ '^^''
otKr}(Ti<i yeyovevat, eirl Kpovov fidX^ evBai/Mcov, ^<?
LAWS, BOOK IV
contains is a marvellously tyrannical feature ; yet
sometimes it strikes me as, of all States, the nearest
to a democracy. Still, it would be totally absurd to
deny that it is an aristocracy while it includes, ;
moreover, a life monarchy, and that the most ancient

of monarchies, as is affirmed, not only by ourselves,
but by all the world. But now that I am questioned
thus suddenly, I am really, as I said, at a loss to say
definitely to which of these it belongs. polities
CLIN. And Megilius, find myself equally per-
I,
plexed ; for I find it very difficult to affirm that our

Cnosian polity is any one of these.
ATH. Yes, my good Sirs for you do, in fact, par-
;
take in a number of polities. But those we named

just now are not polities, but arrangements of States
which rule or serve parts of themselves, and each is
named after the ruling power. But if the State
ought to be named after any such thing, the name it
should have borne is that of the God who is the true
ruler of rational men.
CLIN. Who is that God ?
ATH. May we, then, do a little more story-telUng,
if we are to answer this question suitably ?
CLIN. Should we not do so .''
ATH. Weshould. Long ages before even those

cities existed whose formation we have described
above, there existed in the time of Cronos, it is
said, a most prosperous government and settlement.
* Schanz : 6avtia<nhv MSS.

davficurrus
Madvig hv ipwrrjOfls MSS.
' avfpoiTridf'is :
* rou Burnet: rh Paris MSS., Zur. (al. rod)

* MSS. and Zur. give ovkovv . Spif to Ath. and Tldw fiiw
. .
oiv to Clin. : I follow Scbueider, Schanz, al.
283
PLATO
fiifirjfia exovad ia-Tcv 'tjrii; roiv vvv dpiara
oLKeiTat.
KA. ^(poSp dv, Q)<i eoiK , e'lr] irepl avrfj^} Seov
uKoveiv.
A©. Eifwl yovv âiveTat' 8i6 fcal Trapi'jyayov
avTTjv eh TO /xecrov toU \6yoi<;.
ME. ÔpOoTard ye Bpcop' koX top ye €^r]<;
C Trepa'tvcov av fivdov, etirep irpoaijKcov earl, fjbdX^

6p6(t)^ av iroLoiri'i.
A0. Apacrreov
a)<; Xeyere. ^rjfiriv rolvvvirapa-
Zeheyixeda rrj^; rcov Tore fiaxapLaf ^(orj^, to?
d(f)dovd re koI avTo/xara irdvTa el')(ev. r) Be
TovTcov airia Xeyerat ToidBe Ti<i' yiyvwaKwp 6
Kp6vo<; dpa, Kaddirep rjp,ecoovfieyo<;
D ecfiiaTT] jSaaiXea'; re Koi dp')(ôvTa<; rat? iroXeaiv
r]/jL(ov ovK avOpdaiTovi, aWd
yevov<; Oecorepov re
Kal dfieLvovo<i, Baipova^' olov vvv rjp^l^ Bpoffiev
TOC<i TToipvioKri Kal oacov rjpêpoi elaiu dyeXar ov
ySovf ôcov ovBe atya<; alywv dpxovra'i iroiovfiev
avTOiai nva^, dW' rf/xei^ aiircov BeairoKop^v,
dp.eivov eKeivcov yevo^. ravrov Brj kuI 6 deos dpa
el)? ^ <f>i\dv6pa)7ro<i (av Tore ^ yevo<; dfieivov rjpcov
€(f)L(rTrj TO Tcov Baip,6vQ)V, o Bid 7roXX% p,ev awTot?
paardivr]^, ttoXX^? S' rjfuv eTTifieXovfievov r/pav,

E elprjvriv re Kal alBtb Kal evvopiav Kal d(f)6oviav
BiKrjf; Trapeôp'evov, daraaiacrra Kal evBalfMova rd
rd)v dvd pdiTTfov diretpydêro yevrj. Xeyei Bt] Kal
^ cus : (cal MSS. (Schanz brackets S^ja koI)
284
LAWS, BOOK IV
on which the best of the States now existing is
modelled.^
CLIN. Evidently it is most important to hear
about it.
ATH. I, for one, think so ; and that is why I have
introduced the mention of it.

MEG. You were perfectly right to do so ; and,
since your story is pertinent, you will be quite right
in going on with it to the end.
ATH. I must do as you sav. Well, then, tradition
tells us how blissful was the life of men in that
age, furnished with everything in abundance, and
of spontaneous growth. And the cause thereof is
said to have been this Cronos was aware of the fact
:
that no human being (as we have explained^) is

capable of having irresponsible control of all human
affairs without becoming filled with pride and in-
justice ; so, pondering this fact, he then appointed
as kings and rulers for our cities, not men, but
beings of a race that was nobler and more divine,
namely, daemons. He acted just as we now do in the
case of sheep and herds of tame animals we do not set :
oxen as rulers over oxen, or goats over goats, but we,

who are of a nobler race, ourselves rule over them.
In like manner the God, in his love for humanity,
set over us at that time the nobler race of daemons
who, with much comfort to themselves and much to
us, took charge of us and furnished peace and modesty
and orderliness and justice without stint, and thus
made the tribes of men free from feud and happy.
1 Cp. Politic. 271. » 691 C, D.
* T6rt Hermann : t^ MSS. (bracketed by Stallb.)
28s
PLATO
vvv ovTO<; 6 X0709 aKrjOeia ')(^pd>fievo<i, (w? oacov
av TToXecov firj êo? dWd
Tif dpxjf ^f 77x09, ovk
€(TTi KaKwv avrot<; ovBe irovwv dvd(f)v^t^' dWd
fiifieicrOai 8elv rjfidf; ohrai irdar) p.r]-)âvfi rov iirl
rov K^povov Xeyofievov ^lov, koX ocrov iv rjfuv
dOavacria /cal ra? TroXei? 8ioik€iv, Trjv
rov vov Biavofirjv eTTOvo/jidôPTa^ vo/xov. et 5'
dvdpcoTTO'i et9 rj oXiyapxia ti<; rj xal SrjfioKpaTLa
'^v)(r]v eôvaa rjhovoiv koX eiridvpLioiv opeyofiiprjv
Kai Tr\7)pov(r6at tovtcov Beofievrjv, areyovaav he
ovBev dW' dvrjvvTO) Kal d7r\r]aT(p KUKOiv ^ vocrrj-
fxari ûv€)(o/j.€pr}v, dpêi Br) TroXeojf rj Tti/09 IBicorov
KaraTraTijaa^ 6 toiovto^; toi'9 v6fxov<;, o vvv Brj
B eXeyofiev, ovk eart a(0T7]pCaacnv
elvai Tocravra oaairep iroXnetoiv ; iroXtTeicov Be
dpri BieXr]XvOa/xev oaa Xeyovatv 01 ttoXXoL firj
Br) <f>avXov irepi vofxiarj^ eivat Tr)v vvv d/iKpia^r')-

Tr)(Ttv, irepl Be rov fieylaTOv ro yap BiKaiov Koi
TO dBiKov ol xph /SXeTreiv, irdXiv r)piv dp,<î(T^r)-

Tovfievov iXi)Xv6ev. ovre yap 7rpo<i rov iroXep.ov
C ovre TTpo<i dperr)v 6Xi)v ^Xerreiv Belv cfyacrl toi'9
vopLOVi, dXX! r)rt'i dv Ka8earr)Kv2a rj iroXireia,
* KaKoiv Heindorf : KOKif MSS. (Hermann and Schanz bracket

yoff'fifiaTt)
^ A word-play
double vovs = vd/jios, and
: Siayo/Jids =
Sal/xovas. Laws, being "the dispensations of reason," take
the place of the "daemons" of the age of Cronos the divine :
286
LAWS, BOOK IV
And even to-day this tale has a truth to tell, namely,
that wherever a State has a mortal, and no god, for
ruler, there the people have no rest from ills and
toils ; and it deems that we ought by every means
to imitate the life of the age of Cronos, as tradition
|)aints it, and order both our homes and our States
in obedience to the immortal element within us,
giving to reason's ordering the name of "law."^
Hut if an individual man or an oligarchy or a
democracy, possessed of a soul which strives after
pleasures and lusts and seeks to surfeit itself there-
with, having no continence and being the victim
of a plague that is endless and insatiate of evil,
if such an one shall rule over a State or an individual
by trampling on the laws, then there is (as I said
just now) no means of salvation. This, then, is the
statement, Clinias, which we have to examine, to
see w^hether we believe it, or what we are to do.
CLIN. We must, of course, believe it.
ATH. Are you aware that, according to some,
there are as many kinds of laws as there are kinds
of constitutions? And how many constitutions are
commonly recognized we have recently recounted.^
Please do not suppose that the problem now raised
is one of small importance ; rather it is of the
highest importance. For we are again * faced with
the problem as to what ought to be the aim of
justice and injustice. The assertion of the people
I refer to is this, — that the laws ought not to aim
either at war or at goodness in general, but ought
to have regard to the benefit of the establislied
element in man (t^ Sainiviov), which claims obedience, is

reason (yovs).
»7i2Cft » Cp. 630 B, 690 B, C.
287
PLATO
TavTt) Selv <lBeiv>^ to ^v/xcfiipou, OTrm? dpêi re
ael KoX /XT) KaraXvOtjaerai, koX tov (^vaet, opov tov
StKULov Xeyeadai KciXkicrd^ outo)?.
KA. n<w<?;
A0. "Oti to tov KpelTTovoî ^vfKpipov eVrt.
KA. Ae7' €Ti aa<êcrrepov.
A0. *nSe. Tiderat St; ttov, (f>aal, tov<; POfiov;
ev rfi TToKeL eKdaTore to Kparovv. rj ya/j
KA. Â\r]Of} Xeyei'i.
A0. 'Ap' ovv oiei, (pUGL, TTore hrjp,ov viKtjaavTa
D ?7riva TToXneiav aWrjv rj Koi Tvpavvov dijcreaOai
eKovra Trpo? dWo
t/ irpoyrov v6fxov<i 17 to crvp,<êpoi
eavTw tov fieveiv ;
Trj<; dpy(rj<i
KA. Uax; yap dv ;

Ae. OvKOvv Kol 0? dv TauTa TO, TeOevTU irapa-
jSaivT], KoXdcrec 6 Okjjievo^ w? dhiKovvra, hiKaia
elvai TavT eTrovoixdlôyv ;
KA. "Eof/ce yovv.

Ae. Iluvt dp" del KaX ovto) kuI TavTt) to
SiKaiov dv e')(0L.
KA. ^Tjal yovv 0UT09 X6709.
E A0. "KaTiydpTovToev eKeivcov Tcov dîcofiuToyv^
dpxn'i -n-t'pt;
KA. Woiiov hr) ;
A0. Taij/ a ToTe irreaKOTTOvpev, TLva^ tlvcov

dpêiv Bel. fcal e(f)dvrf 8rj youea I add (iSflv for Stri/ Schneider).

• o|ja>/uoTft)j' Schulthess : SiKatufxdrcti' Zur. : A5i(cjj/iciTa»
MSS.
288
LAWS, BOOK IV
|)olityjwhatever it may be, so that it may keep in
power and never be dissolved and that the
for ever ;
natural definition of justice is best stated in this way.

CLIN. In what way ?
ATH. That justice is "what benefits the

stronger."^
CLIN.Explain yourself more clearly.
ATH. This is how it is the laws (they say) in : —
a State are always enacted by the stronger power?
Is it not so ?
CLIN. That is quite true.

ATH. Do you suppose, then (so they argue), that
A democracy or any other government even a —
—
tyrant if it has gained the mastery, will of its own
accord set up laws with any other primaiy aim than
that of securing the permanence of its own authority ?
CLIN. Certainly not.
ATH. Then tlie lawgiver will style these enact-
ments "justice," and will punish every transgressor
as guilty of injustice.
CLIN. That is certainly probable.
ATH. So these enactments will thus and herein
always constitute justice.
CLIN. That is, at any rate, what the argument
asserts.
ATH. Yes, for this is one of those " agreed
claims " concerning government.^
CLIN. What " claims " ?
ATH. Those which we dealt with before, claims —
as to who should govern whom. It was shown that
parents should govern children, the older the
younger, the high-born the low-born, and (if you
remember) there were many other claims, some ot
» Cp. Rep. i. 338, ii. 367. « Cp. 690 B.
289
PLATO
e/jLTTodia erepa erepoiai. Kal St) kul ev tfv avrmv
rovTO, Kal e(f)a/j,ev irov /caTo, <f)vaiv top vofiov
715 dyetv hiKaiovvra to îuiotutov, 0)9 (^dvai <rov
Y\.ivhapov>}
KA. Nat, ravr rjv a Tore i\e-)(6ri.
A©. S/coTret hrj 7roTepoi<; Tcalv rj TroXt? i^/xiv
earl TrapaSorea. jeyov€ yap Br) fivpiaKii; fihrj
TO Toiovrov ev tkti TroXeaiv.
KA. To TTOtOV ;
A0. 'Ap)(îov 7r€pi/jLaxV'^(»>v yevofievcov 01 vlki]-

aavT€'i TO. re Trpdyfiara Kara rrjv ttqXiv outw?
ia(j)eTepi(Tav a(p68pa, ware dpyrj'i p-tjS' otiovv
/j,€Ta8iB6vat Tol<; rjTTrjdelcn, ixrjTe avToi<; firjTe
CKyovoi.'i, TrapaipuXciTTOvre^ Be dW7]Xov<; ^(oatv,
B 07rG)9 P'l] TTore rt? eZ? dp-)(riii d(f)iK6fMevo<; eTravaarfj
/j,e/jLvr)p.evo T/yLtet? vvv ovt elvai iroXneiaf;,
ovr 6p6ov<i v6/M0V<; oaoi firj ^vfnrdaT}(i tt}? TToXew?
eveKa rov kolvov eTeOrjcrav oi 8' eveKa rivSiv,
araaicoTeia^ dW
ov TroXfrefa? rovrovi (pap-iv,
Kal rd TOVTQ)v StKaia d (paatv elvai, p,dTT)p
elprjcrOat. Xeyerai Se tovS^ eveKa Tavd' rj/uLiv,
0)9 rj/jLei<; tj} crfj TToXei dp^d'i ov9 on 7r\ovcno<i
C e'cTTt Tt<f 8(i)ao/j,ev, ovB" oti tcov toiovtcov dWo
ovBev KeKTripêvo^, Icry^vv rj p,eyedoK rj ri yivos'
69 8' dv Tol<iredelcn vopôis €V7retOeaTar6<; t rj
Kal vLKo, ravTrjv rrjv viKrjv ev rfj TroXei, rovra
* vSfiov Badham (adding rhv TllySapov after (pdvai) : VlifSapoi'

MSS., edd.
1 Cp. 690 B, with the footnote.
290
LAWS, BOOK IV
which were conflicting. The claim before us one
of these, and we said that ^ — to quote — is
Pindar "the
law marches with nature when it justifies the right
of might."
CLIN. Yes, that is what was said then.
ATH. Consider now, to which class of men should
we entrust our State. For the condition referred
to is one that has already occurred in States
tliousands of times.
CLIN. What condition ?
ATH. Where offices of rule are open to contest,
the victors in the contest monopolise power in the
State so completely that they offer not the smallest
share in office to the vanquished party or their
descendants and each party keeps a watchful eye
;
on the other, lest anyone should come into office

and, in revenge for the former troubles, cause a
rising against them. Such polities we, of course,
deny to be polities, just as we deny that laws are
true laws unless they are enacted in the interest
of the common weal of the whole State. But where
the laws are enacted in the interest of a section, we
call them " feudalities " ^ rather than "polities";
and the "justice " they ascribe to such laws is, we
say, an empty name. Our reason for saying this
is that in your State we shall assign office to a man,
not because he is wealthy, nor because he possesses

—
any other quality of the kind such as strength or
size or birth ; but the ministration of the laws must
be assigned, as we assert, to that man who is most
obedient to the laws and wins the victory for
*A word coined (like the Greek) to suggest a constitution

based on "feuds" or party-divisions.
291
PLATO
(f>afM€v Kal rr}v rSiv TeOevrwv ^ vTrrjpecriav Boreov
elvai rrjv fieyLaTTjv rw irpcoTw, koI Sevrepav tw
ra hevrepa Kparovvri, Kal Kara \6yov ovtco TOi<i
i<f)e^rjf; TO, fxera ravd^ cKaara airohoTeov elvai.
TOV<; S' ap-)(Ovra<; Xeyofiivov^ vvv V7rr]peTa<i rot?
vofioi'i eKaXeaa ou Tt Kaivoro/j,ia<i ovofiaTwv evexa,
D aXV rjyovfjiat iravTO^; fiaWov elvai, irapa tovto
(TfOTrjpiav re iroXec koI rovvavriov. iv ^ fxev <yap
av ap-ôfxevo^ rj Kal UKvpo^ v6p,o<;, <f)6opav opo)
TJj TOcavTTj €Toi/jLr)v ovaav

iv fj he av heairort]^
tS)v ap')(ôvra)v, ol he dpôvre^ SovXoi rov vofiov,
(TcorrjpLav Kal trdvd' ocra Oeol iroXea-iv eSoaav
dyaOa yiyv6fX€va KaOopcb.
KA. Nat /xd AC, 0) êve' kuO^ "qXiKvav ycLp o^v
A0. Neo? /xev yap wv 7rd<; dvOpfoirof ra roiavra

E dfi^Xvrara avTo<i avrov opa, yepcov 8e o^vrara,
KA. AXrjOecTTaTa.
^
Ae. hrj TO perd ravra ;

Tt dp oi/x r]KOVTa<;
p,€V Kal irapovja'i 6S)p^v tou? eVot/cou?, rov S'
ef% avTOi<i BiaTrepavTeov av eirj Xoyov ;

KA. nw9 ydp ov ;
A0. "Ai^Spe? Toivvv (f)(t)p,ev Trpb'i avTov<i, 6 puev
8rf Oe6<i, ooairep Kal 6 TraXai6<; X0709, dp-)(riv re
Kal TcXevTTjv Kal p,eaa tmv 6vtq)v dirdvroyv e-)(^(i>v,
716 euOeta Trepaivei Kard (pvaiv TreptTropevopêvci' Ta>
S" dei ^vveirerai At/oy royv diroXenrop.evwv rov
deiov vofiov Tip,(op6<i, ^9 6 pikv evSaipovijaecv
^ TiBivruv my conj. (also Apelt, independently) : dtHv

MSS.
1 " Magistrates " = rulers ; " ministers " = subjects, or
servants.
29a
LAWS, BOOK IV
—
obedience in the State, the highest office to the
first, the next to him that shows the second degree
of mastery, and the rest must similarly be assigned,
each in succession, to those that come next in order.
And those who are termed "magistrates" I have
now called " ministers " ^ of the laws, not for the sake
of coining a new phrase, but in the belief that
salvation, or ruin, for a State hangs upon nothing
so much as this. For wherever in a State the law
is subservient and impotent, over that State I see
ruin impending but wherever the law is lord over
;
the magistrates, and the magistrates are servants to

the law, there I descry salvation and all the blessings
that the gods bestow on States.
CLIN. Aye, by Heaven, Stranger for, as befits ;
your age, you have keen sight.

ATH. Yes for a man's vision of such objects is
;
at its dullest when he is young, but at its keenest

when he is old.
CLIN. Very true.
ATH. What, then, is to be our next step? May
we not assume that our immigrants have arrived and
are in the country, and should we not proceed with
our address to them ?
Of
CLIN. course.
ATH. Let us, then, speak to them thus " O men, :
—
that God who, as old tradition ^ tells, holdeth the be-
ginning, the end, and the centre of all things that
exist, completeth his circuit by nature's ordinance in
straight, unswerving course. With him followeth
Justice always, as avenger of them that fall short
of the divine law and she, again, is followed by
;
' Probably Orphic, quoted thus by the Scholiast : Zeis

Z«irt fitffaa, Ai6s 5' iK irdyTa rirvKrai.
ipxht
PLATO
fjueXXfov €)(6ijL€vo<{ ^vveirerai Ta7Tet.voia, cifia veoTrjri Koi avoia, (pXeyerac rrjv

•^v)(r]v ixeO^ v^peco<i, to? oi/t' apôvTO'; ovre Tivo6€i<i
oe Kal eTi dX\,ov<; 701ovtov<; TrpoaXaôov aKipra
rapaTTwv irdvd^ afia, kuI ttoXXo?? tictIv eSoêv
eivai ri<;, nerd Be 'X^povov ov iroXvv v7roa-)(^wv
Tificoptav ov p-epLiTTriv rfj Blkt) eavrov re Kal
oiKOv Kai rroXiv dpBrjv avdararov eiroirâe. irpof;
TavT ovv ovTw BiareTajfieva tC )(^pr) Bpdv fj
BiavoetaOai, Kal ri fiyj, rov e/xcjipova ;
KA. ^rjXov Br) rovTo ye, &>? rmv ^vvaKoXov-
OrjaovTwv eaofxevov rat 6e5) Bel Biavoy]6f]vai Trdvra
dvBpa.
C A0. Tt9 ovv Br) rrpdî^ (^tXrj Kal dKoXovdo^
0e(p ; fila, Kal eva Xoyov eôvaa dp')(âlov, ort
Tw fiev o/xoiu) TO 6/jLOtov ovTi fxerpiw ^lXov dv
eirj, rd B d/jLerpa ovr dXXriXoL<i ovre rol^; ifi-
fierpoL^. Br) Oeo<{ r))uv iravrcov 'X^prj/jidrcov
fjberpov dv pudXiara, Kal iroXv /xdXXov r) irov
eir)
Tt?, cS? (f)a(nv, avdpcoTTO^;. rov ovv rw roiovrw

7rpo(Tcf)iXi] yevr)(TofJt.evov elr
:
rhv The expression " like to like" became proverbial,

bfiolov.
like our "Birds of a feather," etc. Usually it was applied
jiiore to the bad than to the good (or " moderate ") to which
Plato here restricts it.
294
LAWS, BOOK IV
every man who would fain be happy, cleaving to
her with lowly and orderly behaviour but whoso is
;
uplifted by vainglory-, or prideth himself on his

riches or his honours or his comeliness of body, and
through this pride joined to youth and folly, is in-
flamed in soul with insolence, dreaming that he has
no need of ruler or guide, but rather is competent
—
himself to guide others, such an one is abandoned
and left behind by the God, and when left behind
he taketh to him others of like nature, and by his
mad prancings throweth all into confusion to many,
:
indeed, he seemeth to be some great one, but after

no long time he payeth the penalty, not unmerited,
to Justice, when he bringeth to total ruin himself,
his house, and his country. Looking at these things,
thus ordained, what ought the prudent man to do,
or to devise, or to refrain from doing?"
CLIN. The answer is plain : Every man ought so
to devise as to be of the number of those who
follow in the steps of the God.
ATH. What conduct, then, is dear to God and in
his steps ? One kind of conduct, expressed in one
"
ancient phrase,^ namely, that " like is dear to like
when it is moderate, whereas immoderate things are
dear neither to one another nor to things moderate.
"
In our eyes God will be " the measure of all things
in the highest degree —
a degree much higher than
is any "man" they talk of.^ He, then, that is to
become dear to such an one must needs become, so
far as he possibly can, of a like character and, ;
according to the present argument, he amongst us

* An allusion to the dictum of the sophist Protagoras
" Man is the measure of all things," cp. Cratyl. 386 A ff. ;
Theaa. 152 A.
295
PLATO
u $ea> (f>i\o<;, ofioio<; yap, 6 8e firj aaxppoyv avofioio'i
T€ Kal 8id(f)opo^ Kol <6> * d8iKo<i' KOI raWa

ovro) Kara rov avrov Xoyov eyet. voi]aa)/j,ev St]
TOVTOi<i irrofievov elvai tov roiovoe Xoyov, arrdvT(ov
KoXkicTTOv KOL aki]0eaTaTOv, olfxai, Xoycou, &)? rS)
fiev dyado) Oveiv koX TrpoaofiiXetv del ^ rot? 6eol<;
€V)âi<; Kol dvaOrjfiaaL Kal ^vixirdar] OepaTre'ia
Oecov KaWicTTOv koX dpiarov Kal dwaificoTarov
7r/309 TOV evSac/iiova îov Kal Srj Kal hia<^6p6vTa>UKev.
dKd9apT0<i yap ye KaKo^, Kadapo<i
r'qv yjrvy^rjv 6
he 6 eVavTto?- irapd he fiiapov hcopa ovr dvhp
dyaOov ovre 6eov eari irore to ye opOov he\eadai'
717 fjLdT')]v ovv irepl 6eov<i 6 7ro\v<i eaTi ttovo^ Tol<i
dvocrioi^, toutl he 6aL0L<; eyKaipoTaTo^ airaa-i.
aKOTro<i p.ev o^v I'j/xlv ovto^ ou hec a-ToxdêcrBai'
êXr] he avTov Kal olov rj T0t<; êXeaiv e(êcn<i,
ra TToV dv yiyvofxeva ^ opOoTaTa êpoiT dv
trpMTOV fiev, (f)ap,€v, Tifxd^ to,^ /ier' ÔXvpîriov^
Te Kal Tov'i TTjv TToXtv exovTa<i 6eov<i toI^ ^ôi^tot?
dv Ti<i 6eoL<i dpTia [kuI hevTepa] * Kal dpicTTepcL
vificov opdoTaTa tov t?}? evaeêia'i aKoirov Tvy-

B Xat'O', rot? he tovtwv dvooOev {rd TreptTxa] ^ Kol
dvTi(f)(i}va rol^ epuTTpoadev prjdeiai vvv St;, //.era
Oeov added by Ritter (Schanz brackets kuI HSikos).
* de! Surges, Schanz Su MSS. S^ Zur., al.
: :
* yiyvofxeva H. Richards \fy6ix(pa MSS.

:
* [Kal Sevrepa] bracketed by England.

^ [to wepiTTii] bracketed by Burnet.
1 This account of the ritual proper to the worship of the
various deities is obscure. Plainly, however, it is based on

the Pythagorean doctrine of "Opposites," in which the Odd
296
LAWS, BOOK IV
that is temperate is dear to God, since he is like
him, while he that is not temperate is unlike and at
—
enmity, as is also he who is unjust, and so likewise
with the rest, by parity of reasoning. On this there
follows, let us observe, this further rule, —
and of all
rules it is the noblest and truest, —
that to engage
in sacrifice and communion with the gods continually,
by prayers and offerings and devotions of every kind,
is a thing most noble and good and helpful towards
the happy life, and superlatively fitting also, for the

good man but for the wicked, the very opposite.
;
For the wicked man is imclean of soul, whereas the

good man is clean and from him that is defiled no
;
good man, nor god, can ever rightly receive gifts.

Therefore all the great labour that impious men
spend upon the gods is in vain, but that of the
pious is most profitable to them all. Here, then, is
the mark at which we must aim but as to the shafts
;
we should shoot, and (so to speak) the flight of

—
them, what kind of shafts, think you, would fly
most straight to the mark ? First of all, we say,
—
if after the honours paid to the Olympians and
—
the gods who keep the State we should assign the
Even and the Left as their honours to the gods of
the under-world, we would be aiming most straight
at the mark of piety —as also in assigning to the
former gods the things superior, the opposites of
these.^ Next after these gods the wise man will
(number) is " superior " to the Even, and the " Right " (side)
to the "Left" (as also the "Male" to the "Female"). It
is here laid down that "honours" (or worship) of the
"superior" grade are to be offered only to the deities of
Olympus, or of the State, and inferior honours only to the
deities of the underworld. In Greek augury, also, the hft
was the side of ill omen {tinisUr), whereas in Roman
augury the right is so.
297
PLATO
opyidôiT dv, Tjpwcn he /jbera tovtov^. iiraKo-
\ovOel 3' avTol<i iSpv/iara tBia irarpwwv deStv
KUTci vojJLOv opyiaôfieva' yovecov Se fiera ravra
^(i)VT(ov, ol?^ defies; 6cf}€i\ovTa diroTiveiv rd
rif-LoX
TTpwrd re Koi fxeyiaTU oêiXrifiaTa, '^(^pecov iravTcov
irpea^vTara' vofxlêiv 8e, d KeKTrjrat koX eêi,
iravra etvai roiv yevvrjadvTWv Koi dpeyJra/JLevcov
C TT/oo? TO Trapexciv aind et? virripecrlav eKeivoiXV^>
diroTLvovTa haveiajxaTa iTri/jLeXela^; re Kal virepiro-
vovvTwv d)8iva yripa atpoBpa Ke^prj-
p,ei>oi<;. irapd he iravra tov îov e^îv re koX
€<T')(^r]K€uai XPV '^po<i avTOV yovea^ €v(fir}p,iav
D 8ia(f)ep6uro)<i, hiori Kovcpcov koi TTTrjVMv Xoycov
/SapvraTT] ^r)p,La' irdai ydp iiri(TKOTTO<i roi'i irepl
rd roiavra Nepêai^ dyyeXo'i.
erd'yjdr) AiKr]<i dv-
/xovp,6VOi'i re ovv viretKeiv heZ Kai aTVoirLfnrXdaL
rov dvp.6v, idv r ev Xoyoi'i edv r ev epyois Spoocri
TO roiovrov, ^vyy lyvoacrKovra &)? ecKorca p,a\iara
Trarrjp vlel Bo^d^cov dSiKeladai dvfiolr dv oia-
<f)€p6vT(o<;. reXeurrjcrdvTddv Be yovecov racfjij p,ev
T) (Tcocppoveo-rdrrj KaWlarrj, fiTjB^ virepaipovra
rS>v oyKcov p^yjr
eldiap,ev(i}v eWenrovra oiv oi
E TTpoTrdropa eavrcov yevvr}ral<; ^ erideaav, rd<;
roi<{
re av Kar iviavrov rtov rjhri reXo^ e)(ôvr(ov

(i)crauTQ)<i eTripêXeiaf ra<i Koapôv (j)cpovaa<i airo-
* ofs Hermann, after Ficinus : is MSS.

^ ro7s . . . ytw-qrais Badham, Schanz tovs : . . . ytwriTas
MSS.
298
LAWS, BOOK IV
oflPerworship to the daemons, and after the daemons
to the heroes. After these will come private shrines
legally dedicated to ancestral deities and next,
;
honours paid to living parents. For to tliese duty

enjoins that the debtor should pay back the first
and greatest of debts, the most primary of all dues,
and that he should acknowledge that all that he
owns and has belongs to those who begot and
reared him, so that he ought to give them service
to the utmost of his power — with substance, with
body, and with soul, all three,— thus making returns
for tlie loans of care and pain spent on the children
by those who suffered on their behalf in bygone
years, and recompensing the old in their old age,
when they need help most. And throughout all
his life he must diligently observe reverence of
speech towards his parents above all things, seeing
that for light and winged words there is a most
—
heavy penalty, for over all such matters Nemesis,
messenger of Justice, is appointed to keep watch ; ^
wherefore the son must yield to his parents when
they are wroth, and when they give rein to their
wrath either by word or deed, he must pardon them,
seeing that it is most natural for a father to be
especially wroth when he deems that he is wronged
by his own son. When parents die, the most modest
funeral rites are the best, whereby the son neither
exceeds the accustomed pomp, nor falls short of
what his forefathers paid to their sires and in like
;
manner he should duly bestow the yearly attentions,

which ensure honour, on the rites already com-
' S. Matth. xii. 36: "Every idle word that men shall
Cp.
speak, they shall give accoant thereof in the day of
JHdgment."
299
PLATO
BiBovai' rS) he /jltj TTapaXei-neiv fivrjfitjv evSeXe^?)
718 Trapeôfievov, touto) /xaXcarr ael Trpeaêveiv, Ba-
TTavr}^ T€ T?}? BtSofievrj^ inro tv')(^t}<; to fzerpiov T0t9
KeKfirjKoat vifiovra. tuvt av iroLOvvreî koI Kara
ravra ^(ovt€<; eKaaroTe eKacrroi rrjv aîav ai
•napa Oecov Koi oaot Kp€LTTov€<i tjjjlwv KOfMiôi/xeOa,
iv iXTTiatv dya6ai<; 8idyovT€<i to irXelarov tov
yStou. a Be 7r/)o<? €Ky6vov<; koI ^vyyevec^ /cat
<f)i\ov<i Kol TToXtra? oaa re êvcKa tt/jo? decov
depairevjiiaTa kuI o/AtXta<? ^vpLiravrcov tovtcov
dtroTeXovvra tov eavTOv îov <paihpvvdp,evov KaTO,
B vofiov Koafxeiv Set, tcov v6/j,(ov avTcov rj BieôBo^,
Ta fiev ireidovaa, to, 8e fir) vireiKOVTa ireidol twv
fjdoyv /Sia koX Slkt) KoXdôvaa, Tr)v iroXiv rjfilv
^vp,6ovXr)6ei>T(i)v Oecov fULKaptav re Kol evSaifiova
diTOTeXel. a Be XPV H'^^ ^^ '^^'' dvayKotov enreiv
vo/xoOeTTfv o<TTt9 UTrep iyo) BiavoetTat, ev Be a-^V-
fiUTi vofxov dvapfjLoaTel Xeyojxeva, tovtwv irepi
BoKel fioi <Betv> ^ Belypa irpoeveyKOVTa avTw re
C Kol eKeivoL<i oh vofiodeTâei, to, Xonrd irdvTa et?
Bvvap.Lv BieêXOovTa, to pêTO. tovto ap-)(ê(xdaL Tr)<i
Oeaecoî tcov vop,(av.
KA.^ "EcTTf Be Brj TO, ToiavTU ev Tivi p,dXi<TTa
a-x^7]p,aTi Kelp,eva ;
A0. Ov
irdvv paBiov ev evl irepiXaôvTa elTrelv
avTu olov Tvirw, dXX ovTcoai Tiva Tporrov
TivL
Xd/3wp€v, dv Tt Bvvcop^da irepl avTcov êâidt-
craaOaL.
KA. i\e7€ TO TTOloV.
* <Sf7v> added by Apelt.

• Here I follow Ast's arrangement ; Zur. and most edd.
give (ffTi . , . Kflfieya, with the rest, to Ath.
300
LAWS, BOOK IV
pleted. He should always veuerate them, by never
faiUng to provide a continual memorial, and assign-
ing to the deceased a due share of the means which
fortune provides for expenditure. Every one of us,
if we acted thus and observed these rules of life,
would win always a due reward from the gods and
from all that are mightier than ourselves, and would
pass the greatest part of our lives in the enjoyment
of hopes of happiness. As regards duties to
children, relations, friends and citizens, and those
of service done to strangers for Heaven's sake, and
of social intercourse with all those classes,— by ful-
filling which a man should brighten his own life and
—
order it as the law enjoins, the sequel of the laws
themselves, partly by persuasion and partly (when
men's habits defy persuasion) by forcible and just
chastisement, will render our State, with the con-
currence of the gods, a blessed State and a prosperous.
There are also matters which a lawgiver, if he shares
my view, must necessarily regulate, though they are
ill-suited for statement in the form of a law in
;
dealing with these he ought, in my opinion, to

produce a sample for his own use and that of those
for whom he is legislating, and, after expounding
all other matters as best he can, pass on next to
commencing the task of legislation.
CLIN. What is the special form in which such
matters are laid down ?
ATH. It is by no means easy to embrace them
all in a single model of statement (so to speak) ; but
let us conceive of them in some such way as this, in
case we may succeed in affirming something definite
about them.
GUN. Tell us what that '' something" is.
you X. T 3*"
PLATO
Ae. ôvXot/jLriv av auTov<i to? evTTeiOetndrov^
irpo^ dpeTTjv elvai, kuI SrjXov on TreipdaeraL rovro
vojjboOerrj^ iv cnrdar) iroielv rfj vofiodeaia.
D KA. IIco? yap ov ;
A0. Ta Toivvv 8rj \e-^9evTa eBoî rt fxoi

irpovpyov Spav eh to irepl wv dv irapaivfj firj
vavrdTracnv oi)/xa2<i ^v)(âl^ ^ \\a^6[jLeva\, jxaWov

S' rj/xep core pop re av dKoveiv Kal evfieviaTepov
coare el kuI p,eya ri, crpiKpov Se rov aKOvovra,
fir]
oirep (f)T]/j.i,^ evjxevearepov yiyvopievov evfiadearepov

^ dya'jr^'jTov.
direpydaeTat,, irdvv ov yap ttoWt}
Tt? ovBe d(f)Oovia twv TrpoOu/xov/iivcoi'
evirereia
eb? dpL<TT(ov OTi fidXta-Ta Kal tu? rd^Kxra
E ytyvecrOai, rov Be 'HacoBov oi iroWol (TO(j>bv
dTTo<paivovcn Xeyovra o)? i] fiev enl ttjv KafcorrjTa
oBof Xeia Kal dviBirl irape'xei iropeveadai, fidXa
^paêla ovaa,
T^9 S' apeTj}?, <f>T](TLV, IBpfOTa deal irpoTrdpoidev
edrjKav
dOdvaroi, fiaKpo^ Be Kal 6p6ioepei,^ ')(aXeirri trep eovcra.
KA. Kal KdXo)<i y eoiKe XeyovTi.

A0. Tldvv fxev ovv. 6 Be irpodywv X6yo<; 6
ye fxoL dTrelpyacTTai, ôuXofxac vp,lv et? to p,eaov
avTO delvai.
KA. Ti'êt Brj.
Ae. Aeyutpev Brj t& vofioOerrj BiaXeyofiei'Oi
* li/uats ^"Xvs MSS.

if.uxo'i : i/J-v^ KafiSjxfi'a (in marg. of
MSS. ) bracketed by Madvig, Sclianz.
ri<rlp MSS.
*
<f>7l/xl Verniehren :
30a
LAWS, BOOK IV
ATH. should desire the people to be as docile
I
as possible in the matter of virtue and this evidently ;
is what the legislator will endeavour to effect in all

his legislation.
CLIN, Assuredly.
ATH. thought the address we have made might
I
prove of some help in making them listen to its

monitions with souls not utterly savage, but in a
more civil and less hostile mood. So that we may
be well content if, as I say, it renders the hearer
even but a little more docile, because a little less
hostile. For there is no great plenty or abundance
of persons anxious to become with all speed as good
as possible the majority, indeed, serve to show how
;
wise Hesiod was when he said,^ "smooth is the way

that leadeth unto wickedness," and that " no sweat
is needed to traverse it," since it is " passing short,**
but (he says) —

" In front of goodness the immortal gods
Have set the sweat of toil, and thereunto
Long is the road and steep, and rough withal
The first ascent ; but when the crest is won,
'Tis easy travelling, albeit 'twas hard."
The poet speaks nobly, I should say.

CLIN.
ATH. He certainly does. Now I wish to put
before you what I take to be the result of the
foregoing argument.
CLIN. Do so.
ATH. Let us address the lawgiver and say
1 Op. D. 287 ff.
* Tcivu Badham : Tav MSS.

* ^cfxi : it>4p(iv MSS. : vcAci Zor. (after Hesiod).
303
PLATO
Tooe, EtTre r^fxlv, a> vo/u-odera' eiirep 6 tc yprf
B Trpdrreiv t)fia^ Koi Xiyecv elScLi)^, ap' ov 8Pj\ov
OTL Kol av €L'rToi<;
KA. ÂvayKalov.
Ae. "^pLLKpSi 8r) irpocrOev apa ovk r)Kovaap.kv
aov \eyovTO<; co? top vo/xoderrjv ov Sel rot?
7roir}Tai<; eTTiTpeireiv Troielv o av avrol<; rj (f)iXov ;
ov yap 8r} ^ elSeiev ri iror ivavriov roL<i v6fJU0i<;

av Xeyofxe? ^Xdinoiev ryjv ttoXiv.
KA. '
A\r)Or] fievrot A-eyet?.
A0. "Tirep Bt) rSyv ttoitjtcov el rdSe Xiyoifiev
Trpo<; avTov, ap' av ra Xexd^vra eir} /xeTpia ;
KA. Hola
C A0. TttSe' JlaXaLo vop-oOera, vtto
re avTcov r]/jL(J!)v del Xey6/jL€v6<i ecni Kal rol^ uXXoiq
irdai ^vvhehoyp,evo<i, on •7roiy]Ti]<i,ottotuv ev rat
rpLTToht, T?}? Moyo-T^? KaOi^rjTai, rore ovk €fJk(f)p(ov
eariv, olov he Kprjvrj Tf? to imov pelv eTOLfM0<; ia,
Kul T^9 rex^Vi ovar) iroXXdKii;, olde Be
ovT el ravra ovt el Odrepa dXyjOrj rcov Xeyo-
pêvcov. Toi Be vopoderrj tovto ovk eari iroieiv ev
D Tft) vopcp, Bvo irepl ev6<}, dXXd eva irepl evov. ov(tt]^ yap Ta(f)i]<;
T»}9 /xev v'irepê^X'r)p,ev'rj<i, t^? Be eXXenrov(Tr)<;,
T^9 Be p,eTpia<i, ttjv fiCav eX6pevoepovaa eir} ttXovt^ Kal
1 5J) : &v MSS. (bracketed by Ast, Schanz)

LAWS, BOOK IV
" Tell us, O lawgiver : if you knew what we ought
to do and say, is it not obvious that you would
state it?"
CLIN. Inevitably.
ATM. " Now did not we hear you saying a little
while ago ^ that the lawgiver should not permit the
j>oets to compose just as they please ? For they would
not be likely to know what saying of theirs might
be contrary to the laws and injurious to the State."
CLIN. That is quite true.
ATH. Would our address be reasonable, if we
were to address him on behalf of the poets ^ in these
terms ?—
CLIN. What terms ?
ATH. Tiiese :
— "There
is, O lawgiver, an ancient
saying — constantly repeated by ourselves and

endorsed by everyone else that whenever a poet —
is seated on the Muses' tripod, he is not in his
senses, but resembles a fountain, which gives free
course to the upward rush of water and, since his ;
art consists in imitation, he is compelled often to

contradict himself, when he creates characters of
contradictory moods ; and he knows not which of
these contradictory utterances is true. But it is not
possible for the lawgiver in his law thus to compose
two statements about a single matter ; but he must
always publish one single statement about one
matter. Take an example from one of your own
recent statements.' A funeral may be either exces-
sive or defective or moderate of these three alter-:
natives you chose one, the moderate, and this you

prescribe, after praising it unconditionally. I, on
the other hand, if (in my poem) I had a wife of sur-
» 656 fit Cp. 719D. »Cp. 717E.
305
PLATO
uatrreiv avrrjv BiafceXevono iv tw TroiijfiaTi, top
^ vrrep^dWovTa av Td<pov iiraivoirjv, (f>€iSo}Xo<;
8'
av Tt9 Kai, Trevri<i dvfjp top Karahed, fxirpov Be

ovaua^ KeKTij/jLevo'i xal /jLirpio<i avroî &v rov
avrov dv iiraivecreie crot.^ aol 8" ou;^ ovtq)
pr)Teov d)'; vvv etTre? fierpiov elirdyv, dWd
ri to
fierpcov Kal oiroaov prjreov, rj rov roiovrov \6yov
prjTTQ) (TOi hiavoov 'yi'yveaOat, vop.ov.
KA. AXrideaTara Xeyetf.
A0. JJoTcpov ovv rjfiiv o rerayfievo^; ein toi<;
vop,OL<; firjhev toiovtov irpoayopevT} iv dpxfj tojv

720 vofKov, aW' ev6v<: o Set ttoiciv kuI /jltj <ppd^rf re
Kai €Tra7r€i\T](Ta<; rrjv ^rjfiiav eir dWov rperrr^rai
vofiov, rrapa/jLvOla^ 8e /cal ireidov'^ rol<; vofjuo-
Oerovfievoi^; firjSe ev TrpocrSiSw ; KaOdirep larpo<i, 6 8* eKeiv(o<; rjp,a<{ eXtadev
eKdcrrore deparreveiv, — dvaficfxvrjcrKaj/xeda 8e rov
rporrov rov vofioderov hedtfieda,
exdrepov, iva
Kaddrrep larpov Seotvro dv TratSe? rov irpaorarov
avrov depaireveiv rpoirov kavrov<i. olov 8t) ri
Xeyop,€v ; elcri ttov rive^ larpoi, (f)ap.ev, Kal riv€<;
virrjperai, rcov larpcov, larpov^ Be KaXovfiev 8rj
TTOV Kal rovrov<;.

B KA. Ildvv fxev ovv.
Ae. 'Eai/ re y eXevdepot wariv edv re 8ov\oi,,
Kar eirlraîv 8e rwv Becnrorcov Kal Oecopiav Kal
Kar^ ejjLTTeiptav rrjv rex^vrjv Krdvrai, Kara (f>v(Tiv
8e fiTj, Kaddirep ol eXevdepoi avroi re fiefiadrjKaaiv
^ iitaive<j(it aoi : itraiviaoi MSS. {iiraivolri aoi Badham).
306
LAWS, BOOK IV
passing wealth, and she were to bid me bury her,
would extol the tomb of excessive grandeur while ;
a poor and stingy man would praise the defective

tomb, and the person of moderate means, if a
moderate man himself, would praise the same one
as you. But you should not merely speak of a thing
as * moderate,' in the way you have now done, but
you should explain what ' the moderate is, and
'
what is its size otherwise it is too soon for you to

;
propose that such a statement should be made

law."
CLIN. Exceedingly true.
ATH. Should, then, our appointed president of
the laws commence his laws with no such prefatory
statement, but declare at once what must be done
and what not, and state the penalty which threatens
disobedience, and so turn off to another law,
without adding to his statutes a single word of
encouragement and persuasion ? Just as is the way
with doctors, one treats us in this fashion, and
another in that they have two different methods,
:
which we may recall, in order that, like children

who beg the doctor to treat them by the mildest
method, so we may make a like request of the law-
giver. Shall I give an illustration of what 1 mean ?
There are men that are doctors, we say, and others
that are doctors' assistants ; but we call the latter
also, to be sure, by the name of " doctors."
CLIN. We do.
.\TH. These, whether they be free-born or slaves,
acquire their art under the direction of their masters,
by observation and practice and not by the study
—
of nature which is the way in which the free-born
doctors have learnt the art themselves and in which
307
PLATO
ovTO) Tov^ re avrcov SiSda-Kovai TraiSa^. deirj^
av ravra 8vo yevrj rSiv KaXovfievtov larpoyv
KA. n«09 <yap ov ;
A0. 'A/j' ovv KoX ^vvvoe2<i on hovkwv koX
C iXevOepwv ovtcov rwv Kafivovrcou iv rat? iroXecn
Toi"? aev 8ovXov<; ayeBov ti ol SovXoi to, iroWa
tarpevovcn irepiTpexovTe^; kul ev rofi larpeioi^
7r€ptp,evovTe<;, Kal ovre rcva \6yov CKaaTOV irepi
voar^p,aTo? dKpc^co<;
etSa)9, KaOd-Trep Tvpavvo<i, av6aha> BecnroTrj irapaaKevdêi tcov
D KUfivovToyv T^9 eiTLiieXeia^ ; o Be i\€vdepo Kd/nvovTi kolvov-
dp')(r)<;
fievo<i avTwre Kal toc<; <piXoi<;, d/xa fxev avTo<i

fiavddveL ti irapd roiv votrovvTcov, d/ia Be, KaO'
ocrov 0I69 t' ecTTi, BiBdaKet, tov dadevovvTa avTov,
Kal ov vpoTcpov iireTaê trplv dv rrrrj ^vfiTreCarj,
Tore Be /neTa 7reidov<; rjfiepovfMevov del irapacrKev-
E d^(ov TOV KdfivovTa, el<; ttjv vyleiav dycov, dnoTe-
Xelv TreipaTai. woTepov ovtco^ r) eKelvco'; laTp6<i
re lcofi€vo<; dfieivwv Kal yv/j,va<TTT)<; yvfivd^cov
Bixv "^V^ /MLav diroTeXayv Bvvafitv, rj pLova')(fj Kal
Kara to '^êlpov rolv Bvotv Kal dypi(OTepov direp-
yaôfi€vo<i ;
KA. YloXv TTOV Bta(f)epov, w êve, to BittXtj.
1 Cp. 634 D, E ; 722 B, C ; 857 E.

308
LAWS, BOOK IV
they instruct their own disciples. Would you assert
that we have here two classes of what are called
" doctors " ?
CLIN. Certainly.
ATH. You are also aware that, as the sick folk
in the cities comprise both slaves and free men, the
slaves are usually doctored by slaves, who either run
round the town or wait in their surgeries ; and not
one of these doctors either gives or receives any
account of the several ailments of the various
domestics, but prescribes for each what he deems
right from exjjerience, just as though he had exact
knowledge, and with the assurance of an autocrat
then up he jumps and off he rushes to another sick
domestic, and thus he relieves his master in his
attendance on the sick. But the free-born doctor
is mainly engaged in visiting and treating the
ailments of free men, and he does so by investi-
gating them from the commencement and according
to the course of nature ; he talks with the patient
himself and with his friends, and thus both learns
himself from the sufferers and imparts instruction
to them, so far as p>ossible ;and he gives no pre-
scription until he has gained the patient's consent,
and only then, while securing the p>atient's continued
docility by means of persuasion, does he attempt to
complete the task of restoring him to health. Which
of these two methods of doctoring shows the better
doctor, or of training, the better trainer ? Should
the doctor perform one and the same function in
two ways, or do it in one way only ^ and that the
worse way of the two and the less humane ?
CLIN. The double method, Stranger, is by far the
better.
309
PLATO
A©. BovXei Br) Kal Oeaatofieda to BinXovv
Tovro ical aTrXovv iv rale/5e 8r] tt/jo? deSiv, rtV apa irpwiov
vo/iiov 6elr av 6 vofioO €tt]<; ; ap ov Kara (pvcnv
TTjv irepl •yeviaeca ap')(r]v Trpcorrjv ttoXcwp irepi
721 KaTaKO(Tfii](T€i Tat<? rdêcriv ;
KA. Tt fjii]v ;
A0. ^Kpxh ^' e'o'Tt Twv yeveaecov Tratrat?

iroXeaiv ap ovy^ rj twv yd/Mcov avpLixiî^ koX
KOivwvia ;
KA. Do)? yap ov ;
A0. TafiiKol Br) vopoi TTpSiToi KivBvvevovcri

ridifievoi Ka\a)<; av rlOeaOai Trpo? 6p$6Tr)Ta irdcrr)
TToXet.
KA. YVavTaTracri fiev ovv.
A0. Aeycofiev Brj Trpunov rov dirXovv. eôi
S" av TTft)? ; ^ t'cTG)? mBc ya/x€tv Be, iiretSav €Ta)V 'p ti<;
B rpiaKOvra, f^'^xpi' ercbv trevre Kal rpiaKovra' el Be
firj, ^7)/xtovaOai ')(^pi]/xaj-i re Kal dripia, ^(^prjiJLaat,
fiev r6(joL<i Kal Too"Of<?, t^ Kal rf) Be drifxia. 6 fxev

airXov^ ecTTQ) ri<i toiovto^ irepl ydpnov, 6 Be BlttXov^
oBe. yap-elv Be, iireiBav ercov 17 Tt? rpcaKovra,
fiexpt Tt^*^ irevTe Kal rpiaKovra, BiavoT)6evTa co?
eaTiv rj TO dvdpdiinvov yeva (f)vaec rivl fxereiXrjipev
dOavaalaf, ov Kal 7r€<f)VKev eiriOvfjiLav c(T-)êiv Tra?
C Trdcrav to yap yevecrOai kXcivov Kal fxr) dvcovvpôv
Keladai TereXevrrjKOTa rov roiovrov iarlv eirt-
* irSis ; Badham, Schanz : ttuj MSS.
1 Cp. 631 D,E.
310
LAWS, BOOK IV
ATH. Do you wish us to examine the double
method and the single as applied also to actual legis-
lation ?
CLIN. Most certainly I wish it.
ATH. Come, tell me then, in Heaven's name,
what would be the first law to be laid down by the
lawgiver.'' Will he not follow the order of nature,
and in his ordinances regulate first the starting-point
of generation in States ?
CLIN. Of course.
ATH. Does not the starting-point of generation
in all States lie in the union and partnership of
^
marriage .''
CLIN. Certainly.
ATH. So it seems that, if the marriage laws
were the first to be enacted, that would be the right
course in every State.
CLIN. Most assuredly.
ATH. Let us state the law in
its simple form first
how run ? Probably like this
will it " A man shall :
—
marry when he is thirty years old and under five and
thirty ^ if he fails to do so, he shall be punished
;
both by a fine in money and by degradation, the fine

being of such and such an amount, and the degrada-
tion of such and such a kind." Such shall be the
simple form of marriage law. The double form shall
—
be this, " A man shall marry when he is thirty
years old and under thirty-five, bearing in mind that
this is the way by which the human race, by nature's
ordinance, shares in immortality, a thing for which
nature has implanted in everyone a keen desire.
The desire to win glory, instead of lying in a name-
* But cp. 772 D, Cp. also Ar. Pol. 1252» 28.

PLATO
Ovfila. ovv avBpaoTroiv icrri ti ûfi(f>v€<; too
yei-o^
TravTO*; o 8ia reXou? avTa> ^vveireTai
'x^povov,
Kal avviyfrerai, tovto) rat rpoTrw dddvarov ov,
T(p iralha'i Traihwv KaToXenrofMevov ravrov koX ev
ov del <yev€aeL t?;*? ddavaaia^ per€i\.r]<j)evai. tov-
rov 8t) diroaTepecv eKovra eavrov ovSeiroTe ocnov,
ex irpovoia'i S" dirocnepel 09 dv iraiScov koX
D 'yvvaiKo<; kuI irevre
^TjfUovcrdQ) fiev xar iviavrov Toata koX tocto), "va
firj hoKrj TT)v p,ovav\iav 01 KepBo^ Kal paarcovqv
<f)€p€iv, fir) /AereêTG) Se ti/jlcov mv dv ol vccoTepoi
ev Tjj TToXei Tov<; irpea^vTepov'i ainoiv ripSiaiv
eKaarore. tovtov St) exelvov rov vop.ov
Trap*
dKOvcravra eêcrri irepX eKacrrov hiavorjdrjvai,
evo<;
E irorepov avTOv<i 8i7t\ov<; ovrco 8et yiyvecrOai tw
prjKei TO cTfiiKpoTarov, 8id ro rnreideiv re dpâ koX
direiXelv, r) tw dfreCkelv povov 'X^pwpevov'i aTrXou?
ylyveadat roU prjKeaiv.
ME. 11/309 peV TOV AaKCOVlKOV rpOTTOV, Si
êve, TO ^pa')(yT€pa del TTpoTip,av tovtcov

TO,
prjv TOiv <ypap,pdT(ov ec rt? KpcTrjv epe KeXevoi
ylyveadaL iroTcpa ôvXoiprjv dv ev Tfi iroXei pot
yeypap,p,eva Tedrjvac, Ta paKpoTep dv eXoipyjv,
722 Kal 8r) Kal irepl iravTOîv6p.ov KaTa tovto to
•rrapdSetypa, el ycyvoiTO CKUTepa, TavTov tovt
dv alpoiprjv. ov p-rjv dXXd rrov Kal KXeivla tAS'
dpeaKeiv Bel tcl vvv vopoOeTovpevw tovtov yap
Tf 7roX.t9 rj vvv rot? rocovroif; [v6poi<;']^ 'XprjaOai

8iavooxip€vr).
* [uifiois] bracketed bj- Ekigland.
312
LAWS, BOOK IV
less grave,aims at a like object. Thus mankind is
by nature coeval with the whole of time, in that it
accompanies it continually both now and in the
future and the means by which it is immortal is
;
this:
—
by leaving behind it children's children and
continuing ever one and the same, it thus by repro-
duction shares in immortality. That a man should
deprive himself thereof voluntarily is never an act
of holiness and he who denies himself wife and
;
children guilty of such intentional deprivation.

is
He who obeys the law may be dismissed without

penalty, but he that disobeys and does not marry
when thirty-five years old shall pay a yearly fine of
—
such and such an amount, ^lest he imagine that single
life brings him gain and ease,— and he shall have no
share in the honours which are f)aid from time to
time by the younger men in the State to their
seniors." When one hears and compares this law
with the former one, it is possible to judge in each
particular case whether the laws ought to be at
least double in length, through combining threats
with persuasion, or only single in length, through
employing threats alone.
MEG. Our Laconian way. Stranger, is to prefer
brevity always. But were I bidden to choose which
of these two statutes 1 should desire to have enacted
in writing inmy State, I should choose the longer;
and what more, I should make the same choice in
is
the case of every law in which, as in the example

before us, these two alternatives were offered. It is
necessary, however, that the laws we are now enact-
ing should have the approval of our friend Clinias
also for it is his State which is now proposing to
;
make use of such things.

313
PLATO
KA. KaXcoq o) Me'^tXXe, eiTre?.
<y ,
A0. To ovv irepl iroWoiv rj 6Xiya)v ypafi-

fiev
fidrcov troirjaaadai tov \6yov \iav evrjOe^' to,
yap, ol/xai, êkriaTa aW
ov ra ^pa-)(yTara
B ovhe ra /xi]Krj Tifjbrjrkov ra 8' ev rot? vvv Br)
v6fioi<; prjOetcriv ov hiirXu) Odrepa r5)v krepoov
Sidcpopa fJLovov et? dperrjv t?}? ;^/J6ta9, aXV oirep
epprjOr] vvv Sj], to rcov Sirrmv larpoov yevo<i
opdorara irapereOrj. irpo'i rovro Be ouSel? eoiKe
Biavorjdtjvai TTMTrore roiv vofwder&v a)<? iôv Bvolv
rd<; vo/jiod€(TLa<;, ireidol Kal ^la,
'X^prjaOai tt/jo?
KaO' oaov olov re enl rov cLTretpov irai.heia'i 6')(\ov
rrp erepo) 'y^poivrau fiovov ov yap rreidol xepav-
C vvvre^ rr)v dvdyKrfv ^ vofxoderovatv, aW' aKpdrw
p,6vov rfi ^la. iyoi Se, S) fiaKdpiot, koX rpirov
en irepX rov<; vo/xov^ 6pa> yiyveaQai Seov ovSafjijj
rh, vvv yiyvofievov.
KA. To TTolov Srf Xeyei^; ;
A0. 'E^ avTOiv vvv BieiXeypêOa r]p.el<i Kara

a)v
deov rwa y€yov6<;. (T')(eBov yap i^ oaov irepl rcov
vofitov rjpyjxeda Xeyeiv i^ ecoOtvov fiearrjfi^pia re

yeyove Kal ev ravrp irayKoXr) dva-jravXr) rivl
yeyovafxev, ovSev aX,\' 57 irepl vo/mcov BiaXeyofievoi,
D v6fjLOV<; Be dpri fioi BoKov/xev Xeyeiv dpxêcrOaL, rd
S' efiirpoardev r)v irdvra r)/j,tv irpooi/jLia v6/xcov. rl
Be ravr etpr]Ka ; to8' eliretv ôvXr)dei^, ore Xoycov
7rdvro)v Kal oaoiv (pcovr) KeKoivcovrjKe irpooip-id t'
earl Kal a')(eBov olov rive^ dvaKiV7]a€i<t, eôvtrai
' aviyKTtv Ast: /laxv MSS. : apxh" Badham, Hermann.
iCp. 720CflF. !oi»ao3;

LAWS, BOOK IV
CUN. I highly approve of all you have said,
Megillus.
ATH. Still, it is extremely foolish to argue about
the length or brevity of writings, for what we should
value, 1 suppose, is not their extreme brevitv or
prolixity, but their excellence ; and in the case of
the laws mentioned just now, not onlv does the one
form possess double the value of the other in respect
of practical excellence, but the example of the two
kinds of doctors, recently mentioned,' presents a very
exact analogy. But as regards this, it appears that
no legislator has ever yet observed that, while it
is in their power to make use in their law-making
of two methods, — namely, persuasion and force,
in so far as that is feasible in dealing with the un-
cultured populace, they actually employ one method
only : in their legislation they do not temper com-
pulsion with persuasion, but use untempered force
alone. And I, my dear sirs, perceive still a third
requisite which ought to be found in laws, but which
is nowhere to be found at present.
CUN. What is it you allude to ?
ATH. A matter which, by a kind of divine direc-
tion, has sprung out of the subjects we have now
been discussing. It was little more than dawn when
we began talking about laws, and now it is high
noon, and here we are in this entrancing resting-
place ; all the time we have been talking of nothing
but laws, yet it is only recently that we have begun,
as it seems, to utter laws, and what went before was
all simply preludes to laws. What is my object in
saying this? It is to explain that all utterances and
vocal expressions have preludes and tunings-up (as
one might call them), which provide a kind of artistic
3^5
PLATO
Tiva evrexyov e'JTt-)(eipricriv XPV^''lôv 7rpo<? to /^X-
\ov irepaiveadai. koX Srj irov Kidapo)8iKrjafi€u, ov-
Sei9 TTdOTTOTe ovT etTTC Tt irpooCfMtov OUTe ^vvdeT7)<;
yev6fjL€vo(o<;, o)? ovk 6vro? ifiol
hoKei, arjfiaivei co? oi/to?, oi re <ye 8t) SnrXoi

eBoâv vvv 8t] /moi Xe^6evTe<; vo/moc, ovk elvai
a7rX<M9 ovrco tto)? ScttXoI, dWa 8vo fj,ev rive,
v6pL0<i re Koi Trpootfiiov rov vojjmv o Stj rvpavviKOv
723 itr'nayiJia uTreiKaadev epprjOr} toi<; eirirdypâai roh
T&v iarpSiv ov<i ecTrofjiev dve\ev9epov<i, tovt elvat
v6fio<i dxparo';, to he irpo tovtov pr)6ev, ireLariKov
Xex^^v vtrep^ rovhe, 6vT(a<i fxev elvai ireicrTHCov,

IT pooifxiov firjv Tov irepX \6yov<; hvvafiiv eêiv.
Xva yap €VfjLev(o<; Kal hia ttjv evfieveiav evfia-

Oearepov tt}v eiriTaîv, o hrf iariv 6 v6fio<;, he^rjrai
to rov vofiov 6 vo/JLodeTT}^ Xeyei, tovtov xapiv
elprjcrdai fioi KaT€(f)dvr] Tra? o \0709 OUT09, ov
ireidwv etTrev o Xeycov. hio hi] Kard ye rov €/jlov
B Xoyov rovr' avro, rrpoolfiiov, dXX^ oil X0709 av
6p6Si<i TrpoaayopevoLTO elvai rov vofxov. ravr*
ovv elTTMv Tt TO fiera tovto dv /xoi fiovXrjdeirjv
elprjaOai ; rohe, <»? rov vofiodeTtjv irpo iravrtov

re del rSiV vofiatv ^peft)!/ eo"Tt fj,r) dp,oipov<i avrov<i
* virtp: xnrh MSS., edd.

LAWS, BOOK IV
preparation which assists towards the further develop-
ment of the subject. Indeed, we have examples
before us of preludes, admirably elaborated, in those
prefixed to that class of lyric ode called the nome," ^ ''•
and to musical compositions of every description. But

"
for the "nomes" {i.e. laws) which are real " nomes
— and which we designate " political " no one has —
ever yet uttered a prelude, or composed or published
one, just as though there were no such thing. But
our present conversation proves, in my opinion, that
there is such a thing; and it struck me just now
that the laws we were then stating are something
more than simply double, and consist of these two
—
things combined law, and prelude to law. The
part which we called the " despotic prescription "
comparing it to the prescriptions of the slave-doctors
—
we mentioned is unblended law but the part
;
which preceded this, and which was uttered as per-

suasive thereof, while it actually is " persuasion,"
yet serves also the same purpose as the prelude to
an oration.2 To ensure that the person to whom
the lawgiver addresses the law should accept the
prescription quietly —
and, because quietly, in a
docile spirit, —
that, as I supposed, was the evident
object with which the speaker uttered all his per-
suasive discourse.^ Hence, according to my argu-
ment, the right term for it would be, not legal
"statement," but "prelude," and no other word.
Having said this, what is the next statement I would
desire tomake ? It is this that the lawgiver must
:
never omit to furnish preludes, as prefaces both to

the laws as a whole and to each individual statute,
» Cp. 700B. «Cp. 718Cf.

» Cp. 715 II ff.
PLATO
koI kuO eKaarov, rj hioia-ovaiv
TrpooLfiLoyv iroielu
kavTOiv ocrov vvv hq tcI) \G)(6evTe Si7]V6jKdTr)v.
KA. To ovK av aWw? vo/xoderelv SiUKe-
7' ifiov
XevoiTO rov tovtcov eTncTTij/jLOva.
r/filv
C A0. KaXft)? /j,€v TOLvvv, & KXeivia, 8oK€l<; fioi
TO ye ToaovTov \ejetv, otl iraal <ye v6fioi<; earl
TrpooL/jLia Koi on Trdarj^; dpyo/xevov vo/j,o0ea-ia<; %/J^
TrpoTiOevai nTavr6€pov rj (Ta<f>(0'i
q fir) aa^(i)<i avra fivrjfioveveadat' to /nevTOi
fieyaXciiv rrepi Xeyo/iievcov vo/xcdv koL (TpLLKpwv el
ofxoLctyi 7rpooifxidêa6ai TrpoaraTTOCfiev, ovk av
D 6pd(b<; Xeyoifjt-ev. ovBe yap a(T/jLaTo<; ovSe Xoyov
'iravTO t€ pi'jTopi Kal T(p fxeXwBu) Kal t& vo/xodeTrj to
TOiovTov e/cdarore eTriTpeTrreov.
KA. ÂXrjOearara BoKei<; p-oi \eyeiv. dX\a Br)
firjKer, w êve, Bt,aTpt^r)v TrXeico Tr}^ ytieX\7;cre&)9

TTOidyp-eda, eirl Be tov Xoyov e-TraveXdcoixev Kal air'
eKeivoiv dp)(^d}fxe9a, et croi <îXov, aiv oi/x &>?
E 7T pooi/j.ia^6fX€vo<; eivre? Tore. irdXiv ovv, olov
(paaiv ol 7raLôvTe<i, dfietvovwv ef dp')(r)<i BevTeptov
iiravaTToXiâcofiev, &)? irpooifiLov dXX^ ov tov
TVôvra Xoyov rrepaivovTe^, KaOdirep dpri. Xd-
^(o/xev S' avTwv dpyr)v o/jboXoyovvTe<i Trpootfiid-
êaOai. Kal to, p,€v Trepl deo)v Ttfirjî Trpoyovcov
re BepaTTeia'i Kal to, vvv Br) XeydevTa iKavd' rd
^ rov : TOV MSS., edd.
1 Cp. 716 B ff.

LAWS, BOOK IV
whereby they shall surpass their original form by as
much the "double" examples recently given
as
sur|)assed the ''single."
CLIN. I, for my part, would charge the expert in
these matters to legislate thus, and not otherwise.

ATH. You
are right, I believe, Clinias,in asserting
at least —
thus much, that all laws have preludes,
and that, in commencing each piece of legislation,
one ought to preface each enactment with the
prelude that naturally belongs to it— for the state-
ment that is to follow the prelude is one of no small
importance, and it makes a vast difference whether
these statements are distinctly or indistinctly remem-
bered still, we should be wrong if we prescribed
;
that all statutes, great and small, should be equally

provided with preludes. For neither ought that to
be done in the case of songs and speeches of every
kind for they all naturally have preludes, but we
;
cannot employ them always that is a thing which

;
must be left in each case to the judgment of the

actual orator or singer or legislator.
CLIN. What you say is, I believe, very true. But
let us not spend more time. Stranger, in delay, but
return to our main subject, and start afresh (if you
agree) from the statements you made above and —
made not by way of prelude. Let us, then, repeat
from the start the " second thoughts " that are
"best" (to quote the players' proverb), treating
them throughout as a prelude, and not, as before, as a
chance discourse and let us handle the opening part
;
as being confessedly a prelude. As to the worship of

the gods and the attention to be paid to ancestors, our
previous statement ^ is quite sufficient it is what
;
comes next to these that you must try to state, until

319
PLATO
o €^7}? TTeipcofxeOa Xejeiv, fxexpi-irep dv aoi irdv to
TrpooLfiiov iKavco^: elprjcrOai hoKt). ixera Bk tovto
i]8rj Tov<i vofxou^ avTov<i Sieêi \e<ywv.
724 Ae. OvKovv irepl Oewv p-ev koL twv pera 6eov<i
KOI 'ôvkwv ^covT(ov re vepi koI TeXevTrjcravToyv
Tore iKavo)^ 7rpooifiiaaufj,eOa, to? vOv Xiyofiev to
o airoXei.Trofj.evov ere rov roiovTou (f)aiv€i /AOt av
oiaKeXeveadai ra vvv olov Trpo^ to <f)(a<i irrav-
dyecv.
KA. XlavTairaai fiev ovv.
Ae. AXXa fjLTjv fieTd ye tu ToiavTa cl)9 ^pi) tu
irepl Ta9 eavToiv koX tu acofiaTa Kal tus
yjrv^d';
ovcTLa<{ airovhri'i re trepi Kal ai/ecre&)? 1(T')(€iv,
B TrpoarJKOv t ccttI kuX KOCvOTaTov dvaTrepîraô-
fxevovi Tov re \eyovTa koI tou? dKOvovTa<i irai-
heia<i ylyveadai kuto, hvvafiiv iirrjôkovi, tuOt
ovv rjfjLiv avTa /Lter' eKelva 6vT(i)<i e'crrt prjTea re
Kal uKovaTea.
KA. 'OpdoTaTU Xeyei^.
3*9
LAWS, BOOK IV
the whole of the prelude has been, in our opinion,
adequately set forth by you. After that you will
proceed with your statement of the actual laws.
ATH. So then the prelude we previously composed
concerning the gods and those next to the gods, and
concerning parents, living and dead, was, as we now
declare, sufficient and you are now bidding me, I
;
understand, to bring up, as it were, to the light of

day the residue of this same subject.
ATH. Well, surely it is both fitting and of the
greatest mutual advantage that, next to the matters
mentioned, the speaker and his hearers should deal
with the question of the degree of zeal or slackness
which men ought to use in respect of their souls,
their bodies, and their goods, and should ponder
thereon, and thus get a grasp of education as far as
jx)ssible. Precisely this, then, is the statement which
we must actually make and listen to next.
GUN. Perfectly right.
321
E
726 Ae. ^Xkovoi Bt} Tra? ocrirep vvv Srj ret irepl BeSiv
re rjKOve koI r(t)i> (îkwv TrpoTraTopoiv irdvTwv yap
Tcov avTov KTrj/xciTcov [//.era êoi/?] ^ '^v)(^r] Oeiora-
Tov, oUecoTUTOv 6v- ra K avTOV Sirra ttuvt eari
Trdai. TO, fiev ovv
/cpetTTO) kuX a/xeivco Seairo-
ôvra, TO, 8'
Koi xetp&) hovXa-
r;TTft) tcov ovv
avTOu ra BeiroôvTa ael Trport/jLrjTeov t(ov SovXev-
727 ovTcov- OUTCO 8r} rr)v avrov '^V')(r}v fiera O€ov<i
ovra^ SeaiTOTa^ koX tow? Tourot? iiro/xevovt; TLpudv
Selv Xeycov heurepav 6pdco<i TTapaKeXevofiai. Tip.d
8' &)9 eTTO? elirelv i)ix(av ovheX<i 6pdc!)<i, BoKel 84'
Oeiov ^ yap dyaObv rcov Tifir), twv 8e xaxciv ovdev
TifjLiov, 8 r)yovfi€vo<i rf Ttai \6yoi<; rj 8(opot<;
avTT)v avêiv rj ncriv vireiêai, firjSev êXTCO) 8e e«
')(eipovo<i avrrjv d7repya^6/jLevo<i Tip,av fiev 8oK€l,
8pi 8e TOVTO ov8a/jL(o<i. avriKa Trat? €vOv<; yevo-
fievo<; dvdpcoiTo^ Trd^ rjyelTat iravra iKav6<; elvai
y lyvQXT Keiv Kul Tcpav
, oterai eiraivoiv tt)v avTov
B "^vxv^, 'fctt 7rpoOvfwv/j,€vo<; iiriTpeirei, irpdrTeiv 6
Ttav idiXrj' TO 8e vvv Xeyofievov eaTiv tw? 8pa)v
ravTa ^XdirTei Kal ov Tipa- Bet 8e, e5<r <âp.ev,
fieTa ye deovî BevTepav. ovBi ye oTav dvdpfoirof;
T&v avTOv eKaaroTe d/MapTrjfjLaTcov p,r) eavTOvaiTiov
1 [ixerh dfovs] bracketed by England.
* etiou : OfTov MSS.
âf
BOOK V
ATH. Let everyone who has just heard the ordin-
ances concerning gods and dear forefathers now give
ear.
Of all a man's own belongings, the most divine
is his soul, since it is most his own. A man's own
belongings are invariably twofold the stronger :
and better are the ruling elements, the weaker

and worse those that serve ; wherefore of one's
own belongings one must honour those that rule
above those that serve. Thus it is that in charging
men to honour their own souls next after the gods
who rule and the secondary divinities, I am giving
a right injunction. But there is hardly a man of us
all who pays honour rightly, although he fancies
he does so; for honour paid to a thing divine is
beneficent, whereas nothing that is maleficent con-
fers honour ; and he that thinks to magnify his soul
by words or gifts or obeisances, while he is improv-
ing it no whit in goodness, fancies indeed that he
is paying it honour, but in fact does not do so.
Every boy, for example, as soon as he has grown
to manhood, deems himself capable of learning all
things, and supposes that by lauding his soul he
honours it, and by eagerly permitting it to do what-
soever it pleases. But by acting thus, as we now
declare, he is not honouring his soul, but injuring
it whereas, we affirm, he ought to pay honour to
;
it next after the gods. Again, when a man counts

not himself but others responsible always for ins
323
PLATO
•^yrjTai Kal tmv irXeicrToiv KUKOiv kov fieylaTcov,
dW dWov^, eavrov Be del dvairiov iâipfj TLfiwv
rrjv avTOv '*\rv)(riv, &)9 hrj BoKel- 6 Se ttoWov Bel
C Bpav rovro' ^Xdirrei ydp. ovS" oirorav r/Boval^
irapa \oyov rov tov vopLoderov Kal eiratvov
âpi^r)Tai, t6t€ ovBa/J,(o<i Tifid, drifxaêi Be
KUKcbv Kal p,erafie\€La<i €fnri7TXd<; avrrjv. ovBi
<ye oTTorav au rdvavTia roix; iiratvovixevov^ ttovov^
Kal <ô/3oi/9 Kal dXyrjBova^ Kal XuTra? /xr} Biairovfj

Kaprepwv, aXV Tore ov TifMa vireiKOiv
vTreiKr}.
aTifiov <ydp avrrjv dTrepydêrai Bpotv rd roiavra

^vpîravTa. ou8' oiroTav rjyrJTai to ^fju travTWi
D dyaOov elvai, rifia, drifidlêt 8' avrrjv Kal Tore* rd
yap ev AiBov rrpdyfiara rrdvra Kaxd ^yov/xevrjii
'
T^9 yjfvxv'* Îvai vTrecKet Kal ovk dvrcrelvei, BiBd-

(TKwv re Kal eXeyx^cov ovk oJBev ovB^ el rdvavria
co?
7re<f)VK€ p,eyL(Tra eivai Trdvroyv dyadSiv rjpuv rd

irepl rov^ deov<; rov<; Kal iravrw'} dnpia.
•^v)(fj<i ydp ar&fia evrifiorepov ovro<i 6 Xoyoii
E (f)T]alv elvat y(revBofxevo<;' ovBev ydp yrjyeve^
ÔXvp.iriaiV €vrip,6repov, dXX* 6 rrepl '^v^rjf:
aX\<i)9 Bo^d^fov dyvoel ft)9 davfiacrov rovrov

Krr]p.aroeprj
728 /cTco/iei'09, B(opoi<; dpa ri/j,a rore rrjv eavrov

•^vxrjV rravro^ fiev ovv Xeiirei,' ro ydp avrrj<;
rifJLiov dfia Kal koXov diroBiBoraL apuiKpov ')(fivaiov'

324
LAWS. BOOK V
own sins and for the most and greatest evils, and
exempts himself always from blame, thereby honour-
ing, as he fancies, his own soul, —
then he is far
indeed from honouring it, since he is doing it injury.
Again, when a man gives way to pleasures contrary
to the counsel and commendation of the lawgiver,
he is by no means conferring honour on his soul,
but rather dishonour, by loading it with woes and
remorse. Again, in the opposite case, when toils,
fears, hardsiiips and pains are commended, and a
man flinches from them, instead of stoutly enduring
—
them, then by his flinching he confers no honour
on his soul ; for by all such actions he renders it
dishonoured. Again, when a m.-.n deems life at any
price to be a good thing, then also he does not
honour, but dishonour, to his soul for he yields to;
the imagination of his soul that the conditions in

Hades are altogether evil, instead of opposing it,
by teaching and convincing his soul that, for all it
knows, we may find, on the contrary, our greatest
blessings in the realm of the gods below. Again,
when a man honours beauty above goodness, this is
nothing else than a literal and total dishonouring of
the soul for such a statement asserts that the body
;
is more honourable than the soul, —

but falsely, since
nothing eartli-born is more honourable than the
things of heaven, and he that surmises otherwise
concerning the soul knows not that in it he possesses,
and neglects, a thing most admirable. Again, when
a man craves to acquire wealth ignobly, or feels no
qualm in so acquiring it, he does not then by his
gifts pay honour to his soul, —
far from it, in sooth !
for what is honourable therein and noble he is

bartering away for a handful of gold yet all the ;
PLATO
TTa? <yap 6 t' eVi 7779 koX vtto <yrj<; ^/juco? aperrj'^;
ovK avjdîo^. 0)9 Be elirelv ^vWi'^BBrjv, 09 a7re/j
av vofiodeTtj^ ala')(pa elvai xal kuku 8iapid/xov-
fi€vo<; Tarrr] koI rovvavriov dyaOa Kal KoKd, rSiv
fiev d7re)(€a6ac /xrj idiXeL ^ irda-r} fiij'^^âv^, ra Se
iiriTrjoeveiv ûfiTraaav Kara Bvvap,tv, ovk olSev iv
B T0UT0t9 irdcrt frd'i dv6pco7ro<i '^v^r]v OeioTarov ov
aTi/xorara /cal KaKO(T)(^r)p,ov€aTaTa 8iaridei<;. Trjv
yap XeyojxevTjv BLktjv t?79 KUKovpyla^ rrjv fieyiarr^v
ovhel^ ft)9 e7ro9 elirelv Xoyl^CTai, eari S" r/ fieyia-Trj
TO ojxoiovadai ovai KaKol<; dvSpdaiv, ofioiov-
roi<i
fievov Be Toi'9 fiev dyadov^ êvyeiv dvBpa<i koX
Xoyovf Kal aTroaxiêaOai, Tot9 Be irpoaKoXXaadaL
BidoKOvra Kara rd^ ^vvovala^;' 7rpocr'7r€(j)VK6Ta Be
T0t9 TOiovTOt<i dvdyKi-j TTOieiv Kal •Trda-)(eLV a Trecpv-
Kaaiv dXX7]Xov<; ol roiovroi ttolgIv [«at] ^ Xeyeiv.
C TOVTO ovv Br) TO irddo'i Blkt] fxev ovk eari, koXov
yap TO 76 BiKaiov Ka\ r] BLkt], rifAOipia Be, dBiKia<;
aKoXovdoî -rrddr}, 979 re TV)(a)V Kal firj Tvyxdvcov
dOXto^, 6 jxev OVK larpevofMevof:, 6 Be, iva erepoi
TToXXol (Tuy^covraL, drroXXvpLevoii.
Ti/J-T) B' eaTiv 7]filv, 0)9 TO oXov elirelv, toi<; fiev
dfieivoaiv eTrecrOai, rd Be xîpova yeveadai Be

yScXTto) Bvvard tout' avro o)9 dpiara diroTeXelv.
ovv dvOpmirq) Krrjfia ovk ecrriv ev^vecrrepov
'«/ri/^7)9
D 619TO (fivyeiv fiev to KaKov, l')(yev(Tai Be Kal kXelv

ro irdvTwv dpiarov, Kal eXovTa av KOivrj ^vvoikciv
* iBfXft Peipers, Schanz (dfKj] MSS,

:
^ [kuI] omitted by Paris MS. (Schanz brackets koI Xtytiv).
Cp. 716 C, D.
326
LAWS, BOOK V
gold on earth, or under it, does not equal the price
of goodness. To speak shortly —
in respect of the
:
things which the lawgiver enumerates and describes

as either, on the one hand, base and evil, or, on the
other hand, noble and good, if any man refuses to
avoid by every means the one kind, and with all his
—
power to practise the other kind, such a man knows
not that everyone who acts thus is treating most
dishonourably and most disgracefully that most divine
of things, his soul. Hardly anyone takes account
of the greatest "judgment" (as men call it) upon
evil-doing that greatest judgment is this, to grow
; —
like unto men that are wicked, and, in so growing,
to shun good men and good counsels and cut one-
self off from them,^ but to cleave to the company
of the wicked and follow after them and he that ;
is joined to such men inevitably acts and is acted
upon in the way that such men bid one another to

act. Now such a resultant condition is not a "judg-
ment" (for justice and judgment are things honour-
able), but a punishment, an infliction that follows
on injustice; both he that undergoes this and he
that undergoes it not are alike wretched, the one —
in that he remains uncured, the other in that he is
destroyed in order to secure the salvation of many
others.2
Thus we declare that honour, speaking generally,
and in doing our
consists in following the better,
utmost to effect the betterment of the worse, when it
admits of being bettered. Man has no possession
better fitted by nature than the soul for the avoidance
of evil and the tracking and taking of what is best of
all, and living in fellowship therewith, when he has
« Cp. 731 C, 854 Cffi, 957 BflF.
327
7 PLATO
TOP €7n\onrov ^lov Sio BevTcpov erdydri riixfj,
TO oe rpiTov, Ira's av rouro je voy]<ret€, tt)v tov
<T(Ofiaro^ €ivai Kara <f>v(7iv Tifirjv. Ta<} S' av
Tifia<i hel a/coTrelv, xal tovtcov riva aXijdel^ /cat
oaai KL^SrjXor tovto Se vofioderov. firjvveiv 8r]
fiot (patverai rdaSe koI roidaSe Ti.vd<; avra<i elvai,
TLfiiov etvat ao!)/jLa ou ro kuXov ovSe Ic-^^vpov ovSe
E Ta%09 exov ovSe fieya, ovSe je to vyieivov Kai toi —
7roWota7rT6/jL€va aoic^poveiTTaTa d/xa re
d<T(j)aXeaTaTa elvai fiaKpat' ra fiev yap ')(âvvov<i
Ta<; ^v)(a^ Kal Opacrelaf Troiei, to, Se TaTreivd'i re
Kal dve\ev6epov<;' d)<; S' avTO)^ r] twv )(^prifidT(ov
Kal KTrjfidToyv KT7Jcn<; koI Tf/i7;crea)? Kara tov
avTOV pvdfibv e'Xêi. Ta fiev virepoyKa yap exda-
729 Tcov TOVTCOV e')(0pO'^ Kal aTdaei<; direpydêTai, Tat?
TTokeai Kal I8ia, to, S' iWeuTrovTa SovXeia'i w? to
TToXv. /iir) 8-^ Tt9 (f)iXo')(^pr]/j,ovelTO) iraihcov 7'
evcKa, TrXovaicoTdTov; KaTaXiirr)' ovt€
Xva oti
yap eKeivoi^ ovt av tj) iroXei dfieivov. 77 yap
TMV vicov dKoXdKevTO<i ovaia, tmv K dvayKatcov
fiT) iv8e7]i;, avTT) Tracrwv fiovaiKcoTdTr} Te Kal
dpiaTT)' ^VfKf)(ovovaa yap tj/Mv Kal ^vvapfjuoT-
Tovaa et9 diravTa dXvirov tov îov aTrepydêTai.
B irataX 8e al8(o ^PV TroXXrjv, ov -ypvaov KaTa-
XetTreiv. olofxeOa S' e7n7rX7)TT0VT€<i to?? veoi^
dvaia-'x^vvTovai tovto KaTaXei-êLV to 8' ccttiv
^ The first place belonga to the gods (*.«. to Divine

Reason).
328
LAWS, BOOK V
taken it, for all his life thereafter. Wherefore the soul
is put second ^ in order of honour as for the tliird,
;
everyone would conceive that this place naturally be-

longs to the honour due to the body. But here again
one has to investigate the various forms of honour,
which of them are genuine, which spurious and this
;
is the lawgiver's task. Now he, as I suppose, declares

that the honours are these and of these kinds :
the honourable body is not the fair body nor the

strong nor the swift nor the large, nor yet the body
that is sound in health, — although this is what many
believe neither is it a body of the opposite kind
;
to any of these ; rather those bodies which hold

the mean position between all these opposite ex-
tremes are by far the most temperate and stable
for while the one extreme makes the souls puffed
up and proud, the other makes them lowly and
spiritless. The same holds good of the possession
of goods and chattels, and they are to be valued
on a similar scale. In each case, when they are in
excess, they produce enmities and feuds both in
States and privately, while if they are deficient they
produce, as a rule, serfdom. And let no man love
riches for the sake of his children, in order that he
may leave them as wealthy as jxjssible for that is
;
good neither for them nor for the State. For the
young the means that attracts no flatterers, yet is
not lacking in things necessary, is the most har-
monious of all and the best for it is in tune with
;
us and in accord, and thus it renders our life in all

respects painless. To his children it behoves a man
to bequeath modesty, not money, in abundance.
We imagine that chiding the young for their irrever-
ence is the way to bequeath this; but no such
3»9
PLATO
ovK €K Tov vvv TTapaKeXevfiaro^ rot? veoi<{ ycyvo-
fievov, irapaKeXevovrai Xeyovre^ a)<i Set iravra
aicrx^vecrOai tov veov. 6 8e e/j,(f)pci)v vofiodeTT}^
TOi? •npea^vTepoi^ av pboXXov TrapaKeXevoiro
aia-x^vvecrdai tov<; vkov<i, koX irdvTwv fMoXiaTa
evXaêiaOai fit] irore ri<; avrov iSrj rwv vecov rj
Kal iiraKOvar] SpcovTa 17 Xeyovrd re rwv ala')(^pSiv,
C o)? OTTOv dvaL(j-)(yvrova L yepovTe<i, dvciyKT] Kai
vkov<; ivravOa elvat dvaiheardTov^' TraiSela yap
vicov 8ia(f)epov(Td iariv dp,a koI avroiv ov to
vovderelv, dXX^ UTvep av dXXov vovOeTwv etTTOi Tt<?,
(fyaiveaOai ravTU avTov BpoyvTa Sid ^lov. ^vy-
yiveiav he Kal ofioyvicov Oetov Koivwviav diraaav
TavTov <f)v<Tiv aipLaTOt eôvaav ti/jlcov rt? Kal
(je^6fxevo<; evvov<; av yevedXiov<i 6eov<i €i<; TratScov
avTov aTTopdv icr-xôi Kara Xoyov. Kal fxriv ro ye
D (piXfov Kal kraipoiv 7rp6<; to<? iv Bim 6piXia<i
evp,ev€<i dv ti<; ktwto fxeiôvi fiev Kal aepivoT€pa%
Td<i eKeivwv vTnjpecrta^; el<; avrov 7)yovp,€vo<; rj
*Keivoi, eXdrrov; 5' av ra? avrov Siavoovp,€vo^ ets
Toi'9 (f)iXov<i ')(dpira<i airrSiv rwv (f)i,Xcov re kuI
eraiptov. €/'? pir^v ttoXlv Kal iroXira'; paKpw
dpiaro^ 0(Tri<t rrpb rov ÔXvp^Triaat Kal dirdvrayv
dycovcov TToXefiiKcov re Kal elprjviKoiiv viKav Beâcr
dv Bo^rj vrrr^peaia^ roiv o'Ikoi vopLCDV, o)? vTrrjperrf-
/c&)9 rrdvrcov KdXXiar dvOpMircov avrol<; ev rat
E $i(p. irpo^ 5' av rov<i êvov<i Siavorjreov <h<;
dytcorara ^vpbQoXaia ovra' <T-)(êhov yap irdvr

earl rd rS)v êvcov [xal ei'v rov<i êvov^^ ^ dp.apr^-
' [Kal . . . ^4vov\] bracketed by England (after F. H.

Dale).
330
LAWS, BOOK V
result follows from tlie admonition commonly given
nowadays to the young, when people tell them that
"youth must reverence everyone." Rather will
the prudent lawgiver admonish the older folk to
reverence the young, and above all to beware lest
any of them be ever seen or heard by any of the
young either doing or saying anything shameful
for where the old are shameless, there inevitably
will also the young be very impudent. The most
effective way of training the young —
as well as the
—
older people themselves is not by admonition, but
by plainly practising throughout one's own life the
admonitions which one gives to others. By paying
honour and reverence to his kinsfolk, and all who
share in the worship of the tribal gods and are
sprung from the same blood, a man will, in pro-
portion to his piety, secure the good-will of the
gods of Birth to bless his own begetting of children.
Moreover, a man will find his friends and companions
kindly disposed, in regard to life's intercourse, if he
sets higher than they do the value and importance
of the services he receives from them, while counting
the favours he confers on them as of less value than
they are deemed by his companions and friends
themselves. In relation to his State and fellow-
citizens that man is by far the best who, in pre-
ference to a victory at Olympia or in any other
contest of war or peace, would choose to have a
victorious reputation for service to his native laws,
as being the one man above all others who has
served them with distinction throughout his life.
Further, a man should regard contracts made with
strangers as specially sacred ; for practically all the
sins against Strangers are — as compared with those
33»
PLATO
fiara irapa ra twv ttoXitoov et? Oeov dvr)pTr)/j,eva
TlficopovfjidWov €pr]/j,o<; yap oiv 6 êvo<; kraiptov
T€ Kol ûyyevMV iXeeivorepo'i avdpcoTroi^ ical Oeol'i.
6 8vvdp,€vo<; ovv rifjuopeiv p,dWov ôrjdel irpodv-
fxorepov hvvarai he 8ia(f)€p6vTcov kol de6<; tm êviw crvveTrop-evoi. Att* 7roWrj<;
ovv evXaffeiwi, oS /cat a-p,iKpbv Trpo/xrjdeLa'i evi,
firjSev dp,dpTT]p,a7repl êvov<} dpaprovra iv tm îw
trpo'iTO Te\o9 avTOv iropevOrjvaL. êviKwv 8' av
Kai eTTi^copLcov dp/xprt]p,dT(ov to irepl toj)? iKera^;
fieyiarov yiyverai d/u,dpTr)fia €Kd(TTOi<;. p,e6^ ov
yap iKeTev(Ta<; fidprvpot 6 iK€T7j<i Oeou dirervxêv^
ofjioXoyiSiv, (f)vXa^ Biacfyepcov owto? tov Tradovro'i
yiyverat, wctt ovk dv irore drip(i}pr)ro<i rrdOoi [o
rv^f^v] ^ oiiv etrade.
B Ta p,ev ovv trepX yovea<; re Kal eavrov koX rd
eavTov, Trepl rrroXiv re Kal <piXov<i Kal ^vyy eveiav
êviKd re Kal iiri'^^copia, BLeXrjXvOa/xev cr')(^€86v
ofiiXj'jpaTa. TO 8e Troio? Tt? mv auTO? dv KdXXtara
8iaydyoc tov jSlov, kirofievov tovtw 8i€êX0elv' ocra
firjv ov ^ vofio^ dXX eiraivo^ TraiSevaov Kal yp-oyot
eKacTTOv^ evrjviov^ p,dXXov Kal €vp,€V€i<; toi<; TeOrj-
aeadai pLeXXovcri vo/noi^ direpydlêTai,^ TavT earl
peTa TOVTO rjplv prjTeov. dXrjdeia hrj irdvTcov fikv
C dyadwv 6eol<; rjyeiTai,, TrdvTwv 8e dvdp(t)7roi<i' rj<;
yevijaeaBai p.eXXa>v paKapio'i re koX ev8aipa)v
ef dp')(rj<i ev6v<i /ieVo^ô? eXri, Xva co? irXelaTOv
^ iirtTuxf Badham, Schanz: trvx^v MS8.

' [6Tvx^v] I bracket.
• o(ra fiiiv oil W. -MollendorflF : So-* iv /x^ MSS. (iffa fiii
fSchanz)
* aTTepyi^trat MSS. : anfpyd(rnat Ast, ZuT.
LAWS, BOOK \
against citizens —
connected more closely with an
avenging deity. For the stranger, inasmuch as he
is without companions or kinsfolk, is the more to be
pitied by men and gods wherefore he that is most

;
able to avenge succours them most readilv, and the

most able of all, in every case, is the Strangers'
daemon and god, and these follow in the train of
Zeus Xenios.^ Whoso, then, is possessed of but a
particle of forethought will take the utmost care to
go through life to the very end without committing
any offence in respect of Strangers. Of offences
against either Strangers or natives, that which
touches suppliants is in every case the most grave
for when a suppliant, after invoking a god as witness,
is cheated of his compact, that god becomes the
special guardian of him who is wronged, so that he

will never be wronged without vengeance being
taken for his wrongs.
As concerns a man's social relations towards his
parents, himself and his own belongings, towards the
—
State also and friends and kindred, ^whether foreign
relations or domestic, —
our exposition is now fairly
complete. It remains to expound next the character
which is most conducive to nobility of life and after ;
that we shall have to state all the matters which are

subject, not to law, but rather to praise or blame,
as the instruments whereby the citizens are educated
individually and rendered more tractable and well-
inclined towards the laws which are to be imposed
on them. Of all the goods, for gods and men alike,
truth stands first. Thereof let every man partake
from his earliest days, if he jjurposes to become
blessed and happy, that so he may live his life as a
' The supreme Gnardian of the rights of hospitality.
VOL. I. jj
333
PLATO
Xpovov aXrfOrj^; oiv SiaîotTj. TrtcTTo? ydp' 6 Se
aTTKrro^, a> <f)iXov yfrevSo'i eKovaiov oxft) he aKOv-
P'lov, avov<i. wv ovherepov ^tjXwtov' a<^t,\o ^ dp,a6rj<;, ^povov
6e 7rpoiouTO<i yvuxrOel^ el<; to -^âXerrov yrjpai; iptj-
fdav auTw irdcrav KaTea/cevdcraTo eirl reXet tov

D îov, axxTe ^(ovtwv koX /xt) eraipcov Kal TratScov
(T')(ehov o/j,OLQ)<i 6p(f)avov avrw yeveadai tov îov.
TijXLO^ piev hrj Kal 6 p^rfhev dSiKcov 6 Be p.rjS' im-

Tpeircov TOt? dhiKOva-iv dBiKelv irXeov fj hnr\aaia<i
Tip,rj<; dîo^ eKelvov 6 pev ydp ev6<i, 6 8e ttoWwv
dvrdîo^ erepcov, p,r)vviov tmv dWcov tol<;
tt)v
ap')(ovcnv dhiKiav. 6 Be Kal ûyKoXd^wv et? Bvva-
piv T0t9 dpôvaiv, 6 peya<i dvrjp ev TroXei Kal
reXeiof; ovro^ dvayopevecrdw viKr]^6po<i dpeTrj.
E Tov avTov Bij tovtov eiraivov kol irepl awcppocrv-
XPV
V7)<; Xeyeiv Kal nrepl Kal oaa dXXa(f)povi](r€co<i,
dyadd Tt? KeKrrjTat Bward p.}] p,6vov avTov e')(€iv,

dX\d Kal dXXoi<; peraSiBovar Kal tov pev peraBi-
BovTa ft)9 aKpoTaTOv ')(^pr) Tipav, top S' av pr)
Bvvdpevov edekovTa Be iav Bevrepov, tov Be (pOo-
vovvTa Kal eKovTa prjBevl koivwvov Bid <piXia<i
731 yiyvopevov dyaOSiv tivcov avTov p.ev yjreyecv, to Be
KTTJpa prjBev pdXXov Bid tov K€KTr]p,evov dTipdêiv,
dXXd KTaadai KaTa Bvvapiv. (f)iXov€iK€iTO) Be
qplv 7rd<; 'irp6<! dpeTrjv d(f)06v(o<;. 6 pev ydp toiov-
» re Hermann : ye MSS. " I add.
» Cp. 663 A, 829 A.
334
LAWS, BOOK V
true man so long as possible. He is a trusty man
but untrustworthy is the man who loves the volun-
tary lie ;and senseless is the man who loves the
involuntary lie ; and neither of these two is to be
envied. For everyone that is either faithless or
foolish is friendless; and since, as time goes on, he
is found out, he is making for himself, in his woeful
old-age, at life's close, a complete solitude, wherein
his lifebecomes almost equally desolate whether his
companions and children are living or dead. He that
does no wrong is indeed a man worthy of honour
but worthy of twice as much honour as he, and more,
is the man who, in addition, consents not to wrong-
doers when they do wrong ;^ for while the former

counts as one man, the latter counts as many, in that
he informs the magistrates of the wrongdoing of the
rest. And
he that assists the magistrates in punish-
ing, to —
the best of his power, let him be publicly
proclaimed to be the Great Man of the State and
perfect, the winner of the prize for excellence.
Upon temperance and upon wisdom one should
bestow the same praise, and upon all the other
goods which he who possesses them can not only
keep himself, but can share also with others. He
that thus shares these should be honoured as highest
in merit and lie that would fain share them but
;
cannot, as second in merit while if a man is jealous

;
and unwilling to share any good things with anyone

in a friendly spirit, then the man himself must be
blamed, but his possession must not be disesteemed
—
any the more because of its possessor, rather one
should strive to gain it with all one's might. Let
every one of us be ambitious to gain excellence, but
without jealousy. For a man of this character en-
335
PLATO
TO? Ta<j TToXet? avêi, dfiiWaofievo^ fiev aino^, tou?
aXKov<i he ov koXovcov 8iaô\ai<i' 6 Be <f)Oov€po<;
rfi Tcov aW(ov BiaôXfj Selv ol6fievo<i vTrepexî'V

atiTO? T€ rJTTOV crvvTeivei irpo'i aperrjv rrjv dXrjOrj,
TOv<i re dvdap,iXX.o}/xevov<; et9 ddvfjLiav KaOLcrTrjcri
Tft) aSt«&)9 yjreyecrOai, koI Bid ravra d'yvp.vaarov
B rr)v TToXiv oXtjv et9 afiiXXav dperrj^ ttoimv crp,iKpo-
repav avrrjv 7rpo9 evBoî'av to eavrou fiepo<; d-rrep-
yd^€Tai. OupoeiBr] p,ev Br) 'X^pr} irdvra dvBpa

elvai, irpdov Be <b9 otc p,dXi(TTa. rd yap twv
dXX(i)v âXcTTa Kal Bvaiaja rj koI to irapdirav
dviaTa dBtK^fiUTa ovk eaTiv dXXai<; €/c(f)V<yeiv rj
p.aôP'evov koI dfivvofievov vi/cwvTa kuI tw p^rjBev
dvievai KoXdôvTa, tovto Be dvev dvp,ov yevvaiov

"^v-^q irdaa dBvvaro^ Bpav. Ta S' av twv oaoi
dBtKovai p>ev, Iutu Be, yiyvcocrKeiv xph itpSiTOv
fiev oTi 7ra9 o dBiKO<; ou;^ eKcov dBcKO<;. tmv yap
p,eyiaT(i)V kukcov ovBel<; ovBapov ovBev €kq)v Ke-
KTTJTO dv TTore, TToXv S' rjKLCTTa ev toI<; twv eavTOv
Tt/if&)TaT0t9' '^v')(r} S', &)9 eliropev, dXijdeia y earl
irdcn TtpidiTaTov' ev ovv tm TipicoTaTO) to fx,€-
yiarov kukov ovBe\<i e/cwv firj iroTe Xd^rj Kal ^fj Bid
D ^Lov K€KTri/iievo^ avTO, dXXd €Xe€iv6<i p,ev Travrco^
o ye dBiKO<i KaX o rd Kaxd e^coy, eXeelv Be tov jnev
ld(xip,a e')(pvTa €y)^top€i Kal dveipyovTa tov dvp,ov
Trpavveiv Kal p,rj dKpa')(oXovvTa yvvaiKeiQ)<; iriKpai-
v6p,evov BiaTeXeiv, toJ S* aKpaTwî Kal aTrapapvOrj-
TO)? irXiipiJieXel Kal KaKM ecf)ievai Bel rrjv opy/]v'
1 Cp. Hep. 375 B ff.. 410 C fif.
336
LAWS, BOOK V
larges a State^ sincehe strives hard himself aud does
not thwart the others by calumny; but the jealous
man, thinking that calumny of others is the best
way to secure his own superiority, makes less effort
himself to win true excellence, and disheartens his
rivals by getting them unjustly blamed whereby he ;
causes the whole State to be ill-trained for com-

peting in excellence, and renders it, for his part,
less large in fair repute. Every man ought to be at
once passionate and gentle in the highest degree.^
For, on the one hand, it is impossible to escape from
other men's wrongdoings, when they are cruel and
hard to remedy, or even wholly irremediable, other-
wise than by victorious fighting and self-defence,
and by punishing most rigorously and this no soul ;
can achieve without noble passion. But, on the

other hand, when men commit wrongs which are
remediable, one should, in the first place, recognize
that every wrongdoer is a wrongdoer involuntarily ; *
for no one anywhere would ever voluntarily acquire
any of the greatest evils, least of all in his own most
precious possessions. And most precious in very
truth to every man is, as we have said, the soul. No
one, therefore, will voluntarily admit into this most
precious thing the greatest evil and live possessing
it all his life long. Now while in general the wrong-
doer and he that has these evils are to be jjitied, it
is permissible to show pity to the man that has evils
that are remediable, and to abate one's passion and

treat him gently, and not to keep on raging like a
scolding wife but in dealing with the man who is
;
totally and obstinately perverse and wicked one must

give free course to wrath. Wherefore we affirm
* Cp. 860 C ffl ; 863 B flf. ; Prolog. 345 D ; Tim. 86 D.
337
PLATO
Bio Btj ffv/xoeiBrj rrpeTreiv koX irpaov (âfxev eKaa-
T0T6 {elvai Belv'\ ^ top a<yad6v.
UdvTfov Se /jbiytcTTOv kukcov dvOpcoTroi^ rot?
TToXXot? €fj,(f)VTov iv Tal? ^tXo? avra>

Tra? avdpwTTo^ (pvaei t' ccttI koI 6pd(o<i eêt to
Beiv eivai toiovtov. to Se aXrideia ye TrdvToyv

iifjLaprrjfidTtov Sia ttjv (jôhpa eavTOV <î\iav
aXriov eKatntp yiyverai eKciaTOTe' rv(^\oinai
yap Trepl to (f)i\ovfi€vov 6 (f)t\ci)v, ware to. Sixaia
KoX TO. dyaOa Kal to, Ka\a KaKCo<i Kpivei, to avTOv
732 irpo rov dXrjdov^ del rtfiav Selv rjyov/xevo<i' ovre
yap eavTov cure ra eavTOV ^PV "^^v ye fxeyav
avhpa iaofiepov arepyeiv, dWa to. hiKaia, idv
re Trap* avrat idv re Trap* aWw fidWov irpaTTo-
fxeva rvyxdvtj. ex ravTOv 8e dfiapT'^fiaTO^ tovtov
Kal TO Trjv djxaOiav rrjv Trap avrw Soxeiv (T0<f)[av
ilvai yeyove ttcktiv odev ovk elBore^, &»? l7ro9

elfrelv, ouSev olop-eda ra irdvTa elSevac, ovk eiri-
T/oevroi/Te? he aWot? a fit] iiriaTdfieda Trpdrrecv,

B dvayKaô/xeOa dfiapTaveiv avrol TTpdrrovre^. 8i6
irdvTa dvOpwiTov ')(^pr) êvyeiv to arôSpa (f>i\etv
avrov, rop S' eavTov jSeXTvo) StcoKeiv dei,^ p,7)8e/xiav

ala-)(vvr]v iirl rw toiouto) irpoadev Troiovfieuov.
'
A 8e a/niKporepa p.ev tovtcov Kal Xeyop,eva ttoX-
* [fjvai Bf~Lv] I bracket (J. B. Mayor bracketed ehai,

Stephens itiv).
2 Ae/ Stobaeus : 5*? MSS.
LAWS, BOOK V
that it behoves the good man to be always at once
passionate and gentle.
There is an evil, great above all others, which
most men have, implanted in their souls, and which
each one of them excuses in himself and makes
no effort to avoid. It is the evil indicated in the
saying that every man is by nature a lover of
self, and that it is right that he should be such.^
But the truth is that the cause of all sins in every
case lies in the person's excessive love of self. For
the lover is blind in his view of the object loved, so
that he is a bad judge ^ of things just and good and
noble, in that he deems himself bound always to
value what is his own more than what is true ; for
the man who is to attain the title of " Great must "
be devoted neither to himself nor to his own belong-

ings, but to things just, whether they happen to be
actions of his own or rather those of another man.
And it is from this same sin that every man has
derived the further notion that his own folly is
wisdom ; whence it comes about that though we
know practically nothing, we fancy that we know
everything; and since we will not entrust to others
the doing of things we do not understand, we
necessarily go wrong in doing them ourselves.
Wherefore every man must shun excessive self-love,
and ever follow after him that is better than himself,
allowing no shame to prevent him from so doing.
Precepts that are less important than these and
1 Cp. Eur. Frag. 460:

iKflvo yap ti-rovff oxfp irdvTfs Pporot'
<pt\iiv iiA\iffT* ffiavrhy ovk alffx^vofjuu.
Ar. Rhet. 1371'' 19; Pol. 1263»> 2.
* Cp. Rep. 474 D, E.
339
PLATO
\dKi<; ecTTi, y^prjaLixa he tovtwv oy% ^ttop, y^prj
TiJyeiv kavTov dvafj.i/jLv/]aKOVTa' Mcrvep 'âp TLvo<i

diroppeovro'i del hel Tovvavrlov iirippelv, dvdfivr]-
at<; iarlv eirLpporj <^povi](J€(o<; diTo\€LTrov(Tri<i.
S"
C hio yeXcoToov re etpyeaOac ')(pr] tmv eâiaicoi

8rj
Kal BaKpvcov, irapayyeWeiv Be ttuvtI irdvr^ dvSpa

Kol o\i)v <7r6\iv> ^ 7r€pi')(dpeiav irdaav diro-
KpvTTTOfievov Kal 7repia>8uviap eva-XTjixovetv ireipd-
adai, Kurd re evTrpayia'; laTajxevov tov 8aL/xovo<i
eKuarov Kal Kar drv)(^La<i ^ [olou Tryoo? v\lr7]\d Kal
dvdvTTj Saifiovcov avdicnaiMevcov rial it pdê<Tiv\,^
iXTTLêcv S' del roU y dyadolcn rov Oeov a
Scopeirai, irovcov fiev eirnrLirrovrwv dvri /xeiôvcov
D iXdrrov<; TTOLrjcreiv rSiv t' av vvv jrapovrcov cttI to
êXriov fxeraô\d<;, rrepl he rd dyaOd rd evavria
rovrwv del irdvr avrolC del Kara re iraihid'i
Kal (TTTOuSa? dva/j,tfj.V7]a Kovra erepov re kul eavrov
aa(f>a><;.
NOi/ ovv rrepl fiev emrrjhev p^drtov , ola xph
hrj
E eTTirTjheveiv, koI irepl avrov eKaarov, ttoIov riva

')(^peoov etvai, XeXeKrai (T)(êhbv oaa Oeld eari. ra
h' dvOputiriva vvv rjfiiv ovk eipr}rai, het he' dv-
OpcoTTOL^ yap hiaXeyofieda, dXX ov deoif. ecrn
hr) <f)vaei dvOpcoireiov fidXiara rjhoval Kal Xvirai
Kal €7n6v/j.Lai, e^ wv dvdyKij to Ovrjrbv irdv â)OV
^ ^woMvy added by Bad ham.

* /cot' arvxias Badham, Schanz : koto rvxas MSS.
' [oTov . , . irpi^fffiv] bracketed by Schanz, after Zeller.
The clause is awkward both in sense and in construction
340
LAWS, BOOK V
—
oftentimes repeated but no less profitable a man —
should repeat to himself by way of reminder; for
where there is a constant efflux, there must also be
a corresponding influx, and when wisdom flows away,
the proper influx consists in recollection ^ wherefore
;
men must be restrained from untimely laughter and

tears,2 and every individual, as well as the whole
State, must charge every man to try to conceal all
show of extreme joy or sorrow, and to behave him-
self seemly, alike in good fortune and in evil, accord-
ing as each man's Genius ' ranges itself, hoping —
always that God will diminish the troubles that fall
upon tlieni by the blessings which he bestows, and
will change for the better the present evils and as ;
to their blessings, hoping that they, contrariwise,

will, with the help of good fortune, be increased.
In these hopes, and in the recollections of all these
truths, it behoves every man to live, sparing no pains,
but constantly recalling them clearly to the recol-
lection both of himself and of his neighbour, alike
when at work and when at play.
Thus, as regards the right character of institutions
and the right character of individuals, we have now
laid down practically all the rules that are of divine
sanction. Those that are of human origin we have
not stated as yet, but state them we must for our ;
converse is with men, not gods. Pleasures, pains and

desires are by nature especially human and from ;
these, of necessity, every mortal creature is, so to
1 Cp. PhiUb. 33 E CF.

* Cp. Rep. 388Ef.. 606Cf.
* i.e. divine controlling force, or destiny.
("when daemons oppose certain actions as though facing

things high and steep ").
34'
PLATO
are-)(yS}<; olov i^TjpTTjadaL re koI iKKpefXiifxevoi^ eluai
anrov8al<; Tai<; /j,€y{,aTai<;. Bel St) rov KoXXiaTov
0LOV eTTaivelv, /nr) fxovov on tw (T)(T]/j,aTi Kparel
733 Trpo? evhoîav, aWa koL o)?, civ ti<; ideXr] yeveaSai
Kol fir) vio^ o)V (f)V'ya<; air avTov yevrjTai, Kparel
fcal TOUTft) Trdvre^ ^rjTovfiev, too 'xâtpeiv TrXeioo,
iXaTTCo Se Xvireladai irapa rov îov airavra, <09
Be earai tovto cra^h, av yevi]Tat ti<; 6pdo)<i, kroi-
/xa)6Bpa (pavijaeTai. rj Be opdorr]^ rU ;
TOVTO 7]Br) Trapa tov \6yov ')(^prj Xafi^civovTa

aKorrelv etre ovt(o<; rjfilv Kara (pvaiv 7re(f)VKev eiTe
aXXfw? irapa (^vcriv, îov )(pr) Trapa îov rjBlcD
KOt XvirripoTepov a)Be a-Koirelv. rjBovyjv 0ovX6fie6a
B Tjulv elvat, XvTrrjv Be ov6* alpovfjieda ovre ôvXo-
fxeda, TO Be fMrjBeTepov dvTt fxev r)Bovr}<; ov fiovXo-
fieda, XvTrrj<i Be aXXaTTeaOai ôvX6/jt,eda' XvTrrjv
Be eXaTTW fiera fxetôvo'i ôvXofieOa,
rjBovrj<;
TjBovrjv Be eXaTTco ywera fieiiôvo<i Xv'rrrj<i ov fiovXo-

p.eda, tcra S" dvTC tauiv eKarepa tovtwv ov-)(^ o)?
/SovXofieda eôifiev av Biaaaêlv. TavTa Be
TrdvTa icrrl TrXrjOec Kal fieyedei Kal aipoBporrjaiv
laoTrjai re Kal ocra evavTia ecrrt tracn toI^
T0L0VT0L<i, Trpo fxev
^LM evecTTi TToWa eKdrepa Kal /xeydXa Kal cr(f)0-
Bpd, vTrep^dXXei Be ra t5)v rjBovoiv, ôvXa/iieOa,
ev M Be T^ evavTia, ov ôvXaixeda' Kal av ev w
oXlya eKdrepa Kal a/xCKpa Kal r/pe/jiala, virep^dX-
Xei Be TO, XvTrrjpd, ov ôvX6p.e6a, ev o) Bk
jdvdvria, ôvXofxeda' ev m S' av fii(p iaop-
34?
LAWS, BOOK V
say, suspended and dependent by the strongest cords
of influence. Thus one should commend the
noblest life, not merely because it is of superior
fashion in respect of fair repute, but also because, if
a man consents to taste it and not shun it in his
youth, it is superior likewise in that which all men
covet, — an excess, namely, of joy and a deficiency of
pain throughout the whole of life. That this will
clearly be the result, if a man tastes of it rightly, will
at once be fully evident. But wherein does this
" rightness " consist ? That is the question which
we must now, under the instruction of our Argument,
consider comparing the more pleasant life with the
;
more painful, we must in this wise consider whether

this mode is natural to us, and that other mode
unnatural. We desire that pleasure should be ours,
but pain we neither choose nor desire and the ;
neutral state we do not desire in place of pleasure,

but we do desire it in exchange for pain ; and we
desire less pain with more pleasure, but we do not
desire less pleasure with more pain and when the
;
two are evenly balanced, we are unable to state any

clear preference. —
Now all these states in their
number, quantity, intensity, equality, and in the
—
opposites thereof have, or have not, influence on
desire, to govern its choice of each. So these thuigs
being thus ordered of necessity, we desire that mode
of life in which the feelings are many, great, and
intense, with those of pleasure predominating, but
we do not desire the life in which the feelings of
pain predominate ; and contrariwise, we do not
desire the life in which the feelings are few, small,
and gentle, if the painful predominate, but if the
pleasurable predominate, we do desire it. Further,
343
PLATO
poTTel,Kaddtrep ev Toi<t irpoadev, hel hiavoel-
adai' TOP laoppoTTOv /3tov, &)? twv fiev virepâX-
D \ovTa ^ TO) (filXfp i)p,tv ôvXopeOa, roiv 8' av rot?
i')(6polap,ev
ôvXeaOai, Bid riva dyvotav kuI direipiav rwv
ovTCDv îcov avrd Xeyopev.
T/i/e? Kal iroaoi elaX îoi, cop nrepi Set
Sr)
irpoeXopevov to jBovXrjTov re koI eKOvcriov dôv-

Xi^rov T€ Kal aKovalov,^ iBiov r del * vopov eavTO)
E ra^dpuevov, to (pCXov dp,a Kal r)8v Kal dptarov re
Kal KdXXicTTOv eXopevov ^fjv oxj olov t' eVrti'
dvOptoTTOv paKapidorara ; Xeycopep Brj a-ax^pova
îov eva elvat Kal (f>p6vtp,oi' eva Kal eva rov
dvSpeiov, Kal top vyieivov îov eva ra^copsSa'
Kul TovToi^ ovai TCTTapaiv evavTtov<; dXXov<;
reTTapas, d<^pova, SetXov, oKoXaarov, voctcoBtj.
aot}(f)pova pev ovv ^lov 6 yiyvcoaKOiv Orjaei irpdov
734 eVt Trdvra Kal rjpep,aiaoBpd^ Be ^Bovdif,
(Twrovovi Be Kal ola-rpooBei^ eiridvpia<i [re] ^ koL
epcora^ o)? olov t' €ppaveardrov<i irapexopevov
vrrepâXXov(Ta<; Be ev pev rep adx^povi 0lq) rd<;
r]Bovd<i rcov d')^dr]B6vo}V, ev Be rip aKoXdarw rd<i
* iîrepâWoi'To Ritter : inrtpBaWivTdiv ^\Si^,

* ^laipfladai England : SiavoelaOai MSS.
* a0OLj\^Tov . . . aKOVfflou : a.&oi\t)Tov . . . aKOvffiov MSS.
* Xhi6v t' a.i\ : lb6vra (Is MSS. : 'ihi6v riv' els Badham.
344
LAWS, BOOK V
we must regard the life in which there is an equal
balance of pleasure and pain as we previously
regarded the neutral state we desire the balanced
:
life in so far as it exceeds the painful life in point of

what we like, but we do not desire it in so far
as it exceeds the pleasant lives in point of the
things we dislike. The lives of us men must all
be regarded as naturally bound up in these feelings,
and what kinds of lives we naturally desire is what
we must distinguish but if we assert that we desire
;
anything else, we only say so through ignorance

and inexperience of the lives as they really are.
What, then, and how many are the lives in
—
which a man when he has chosen the desirable and
voluntary in preference to the undesirable and the
involuntar)', and has made it into a private law for
himself, by choosing what is at once both congenial
—
and pleasant and most good and noble may live as
happily as man can ? Let us pronounce that one of
them is the temperate life, one the wise, one the
brave, and let us class t!>e healthy life as one; and
to these let us oppose four others —the foolish, the
cowardly, the licentious, and the diseased. He
that knows the temperate life will set it down as
gentle in all respects, affording mild pleasures and
mild pains, moderate appetites and desires void of
frenzy ; but the licentious lite he will set down as
violent in all directions, affording both pains and
pleasures that are extreme, appetites that are
intense and maddening, and desires the most
frenzied possible and whereas in the temperate life
;
the pleasures outweigh the pains, in the licentious
* [tc] bracketed by England.
345
PLATO
XvTra<; tcov rjSovtov fieyiOei koX TrXrjOeb koI itvkvo-
TTjaiv. oOev 6 fiev rjhiwv rjiuv tcov îa>v, 6 8e
\v7rr)p6r€po<; i^ dvdyKrj^ crv/xâivei Kara (f>vatv
B yiyveadai, Kal rov ye ôvXofxevov rjSewi ^fjv ovkstl
TrapeiKet eKovra ye dKoXdaro)^ ^fjv, d\X' IjSr)
Br]\ov ft)?, 61 TO vvv Xeyofievov opOov, Tra? e'f
dvdyKT)^ aKciiv earrlv dKoXaaro^' rj yap Si dfia-
diav rj Sl dKpdreiav rj Si* dixôrepa rov aaxfypo-
velv ivherj<i wv ^fj 6 Tra? dv6 pcoTrivof; 6)(Xo<;. ravrd
he Trepl j'OcrwSoi'? re Koi vyiecvov /Stou SiavoTjreov,
ft)? eôvai p,ev -^Sovaf; Kal Xv7ra<;, vTrepBdXXovai
C 8e r^hoval fiev Xvirw; ev iiyieia, Xvirai Se 'q8ovd<i ev

vocroi'i. r]p,iv Be rj ôvXt}(tl^ t?}? alpecrea)^ twv
jBicov ovx TO Xvrrrjpov vTrep^dXXij' oirov 5'
l-vci
vTrep^dXXerai, tovtov rov îov r}8ico KCKpLKapêv.

6 8rj (Toxppeov rov aKoXdcrrov Kal o (f}povifio<; rov
d(f>povo<;, (f>aip,ev dv, Kal 6 rrj^ dvhpia<; rov ri]<;
8eiXla<i eXdrrova Kal apiKporepa Kal p/xvorepa
'e)(o)v dp(f)6repa, rfj roiv rjSovcov eKarepo<; eKdrepov
virep^dXXwv, rfj t^? Xv7n]<; eKeivwv virepâXXov-

D rcov avrom, 6 fiev dvBp€2o<i rov BeiXov, 6 8e
<^p6vipL0<i rov d^pova, viKcoaiv, Sxrre 'qhiovî elvai
rou<; ^L0v<; rSyv îcov, ad)(f)pova Kal avBpeiov Kal
^povipov Kal vyieivbv BeiXov Kai a(f)povo<i Kal
dKoXdarov Kal vocrcoBov?, Kal ^vXXij^Brjv rov
dperrj'i eôp-evov Kara awpa rj Kal Kara yfrv^V^
rov rTJ<; po'ydrjpCa'i eôp,evov îov rjBLco re elvai
Kal Tot? dXXoL rravrl Kal oXw.
Kat TO p.ev irpooiptov roiv v6p,wv evravdol
346
LAWS, BOOK V
life the p>ains exceed the pleasures in extent, number,
and frequency. Whence it necessarily results that
the one life must be naturally more pleasant, the
other more painful to us and it is no longer possible
;
for the man who desires

a pleasant life voluntarily to
live a licentious life, but it is clear by now (if our
argument is right) that no man can possibly be
licentious voluntarily: it is owing to ignorance or
incontinence, or both, that the great bulk of man-
kind live lives lacking in temperance. Similarly
with regard to the diseased life and the healthy life,
one must observe that while both have pleasures and
pains, the pleasures exceed the pains in health, but
the pains the pleasures in disease. Our desire in the
choice of lives is not that pain should be in excess,
but the life we havejudged the more pleasant is that
in which pain is exceeded by pleasure. We will assert,
then, that since the temperate life has its feelings
smaller, fewer and lighter than the licentious life,
and the wise life than the foolish, and the brave
than the cowardly, and since the one life is superior
to the other in pleasure, but inferior in pain, the
brave life is victorious over the cowardly and the
wise over the foolish consequently the one set of
;
lives ranks as more pleasant than the other the

:
temperate, brave, wise, and healthy lives are more

pleasant than the cowardly, foolish, licentious and
diseased. To sum up, the life of bodily and spiritual
virtue, as compared with that of vice, is not only
more pleasant, but also exceeds greatly in nobility,
rectitude, virtue and good fame, so that it causes the
man who lives it to live ever so much more happily
than he who lives the opposite life.
Thus far we have stated the prelude of our lawsj
347
PLATO
X£-)(^d€V t5)v Xoycov reXo7]v.^
KaduTrep ovv hrj riva ûvv(f)rjv rj xal nXey/M aXX'
oTiovv, ouK eK rS)v avroov oilov t' ecnl rrjv re
e4>u(f)7]L' Kai rov aT^fiova a-nepyalêcTOai, 8ia<f)epeiv
S' avayKOLOV to tS)V (TTtj/movcov 7r/?o9 aperrjv yevo<i'
lax^pov re yap Kai riva êâioTrjra ev rot?

735 rpoiroi^ eiX'r](f>6<;, to he /xaXaKcoTcpov Kai eTTceiKeia
Ttvl hiKaia ')(^p(o/u,evov' 66 ev 8r] tov<; p.eydXa'i
ap-)(^d<i ev Tai9 TroXecriv dpôvTa<: Bel BiaKplveaOai
Tiva TpoTTOV TavTT) Kai Tov<i (TixiKpa<i ^ iracBeia

âaaviaOevTa^ eKaaTOTe KaTO, Xoyov earov yap
Br) Bvo iroXiTeia'i e'iBrj, to fiev dp'xôiyv KaTacrTdaei<i
eKaaToi^, to Be vofioi Tat? dp)(âl<; diroBoOevTe';.

To Be irpo TOVTwv dirdvTcov Bel BiavoelcrOai
B TO, ToidBe. Tracrav dyeXrjv Trotfirjv Kai ôvk6Xo<;
Tpo<pev<; T€ iTTTTCOv, Kai oaa dXXa ToiavTa, irapa-
Xaôiv ovK dXXu><i fit] ttotc Oepa-
e'iri')(êiprjarr}
ireveiv rj TrpcoTov fiev tov eKacTTr] irpoarjKOVTa

Ka6apfj,6v Kaddprj Ty ^vvoiKijcrei, BiaXeâ^; Be Ta tg
vyirj Kai Kai Ta yevvala Kai dyevi-f) Ta )xev
to, fir)
dTro7rep.yjrr} 7r/)o? dXXa6apKvla TrpoaaTToXXvai to
1 [vofj-ovs] bracketed by W.-Mollendorflf.

• viroypa<pi\v W.-Mollendorff v-n-oyjacbfiv MSS.
:
• fffiiKpas Biicheler, Schanz o-fxiKp^ MSS.

:
* A plaj' on the double sense of v6/aos

— " law " and musical
"nome " or "tune."
34^
LAWS, BOOK V
and here let that statement end : after the prelude
must necessarily follow the tune,^ —or rather, to be
strictly accurate, asketch of the State-organisation.
Now, just as in the case of a piece of webbing, or
any other woven article, it is not possible to make
lK)th warp and woof of the same materials, but the
stuff of the warp must be of better quality —
for it is
strong and is made firm by its twistings, whereas the
woot is softer and shows a due degree of flexibility ^
from this we may see that in some such way we must
mark out those who are to hold high offices in the
State and those who are to hold low offices,^ after
applying in each case an adequate educational test.
For of State organisation there are two divisions, of
which the one is the appointment of individuals to
office, tlie other the assignment of laws to the
offices.
But, in truth, before we deal with all these matters
we must observe the following. In dealing with a
flock of any kind, the shepherd or cowherd, or the
keeper of horses or any such animals, will never
attempt to look after it until he has first applied to
each group of animals the appropriate purge which —
is to separate the sound from the unsound, and the
well-bred from the ill-bred,* and to send off" the
latter to other herds, while keeping the former under
his own care ; for he reckons that his labour would
be fruitless and unending if it were spent on bodies
and souls which nature and ill-nurture have combined
to ruin, and which themselves bring ruin on a stock
• In weaving the ancients used an upright loom, in which

the fixed, vertical threads of the "warp" were of coarser
fihre than the transverse threads of the " woof."
» Cp. Ar. Pol 1265" 18 flF. « Cp. Rep. 410 A.
349
PLATO
rSiv vyi&v Kol aKjjpdrcov rjOwv re xal aco/idrcov
yevo^ ev eKaaTOt^ tmv KTrjixdrcov, dv Ti<i rd
v7rdp')(0VTa firj BiaKadaLprjTai. rd /lev Stj twv
aWcov ^cofov eXdrrwv re aTrovBrj kuI TrapaBeiy-
fiaTO<i ei'CKa fiovov dîa irapaOeaOai rw Xoyw,
ra oe twv dvOpditrayv (T7rov8r)<i rrj<i fxeyicrrri<i tg) re
vofioOerrj Biepevvdadai kol (ppdêip to TrpoarJKov
eKdaroL<i KaOap/xov re rripc Kal ^v/xiraacov roiv
dWwv irpdêcov. avjiKa yap to irepX KuOap-
D fiov<; TToXeco'i wS' eôv dv elr)' iroWoiv ovcrwv jcov
hiaKaddpaewv ai fiev pdov^ eiaiv, al Se %aXe-
•TTctiTepai, Kal ra? /xev rvpavvo<; jxev wv Kal vo/xo-
6eTT)<i 6 avr6<;, ocrai ^âXeTrat t' eial Kal dpiarai,

SvvatT dv Kadrjpar vop,oB€Tr]<; Be dvev rvpavvihoî
Kadicrrd^ TroXneiav Kaivrjv Kal v6p.ou<;, el Kal
Tov TrpaoTaTov tmv Kadapficov KaOtjpecev, dyam}-
TG)9 dv Kal TO TOIOVTOV Spd(T€iev. eCTTl S' fiev
dpiarof dXyeivo<;, Kaddirep oaa twv (âpfiuKcov
E TOiovrorpoTTa, 6 tt} Blkj] /xerd Tifiwpla^ et9 to
KoXdêiv dyoov, ddvaTOV r] <f)vyr)v ttj rificopia to
Te\o<? eirniOei'i' TOv<i ydp fxeyiaTa e^'r]p.apT'r]KQTa<s,
dviaTOVi he 6vTa<i, /xeylaTTjv Be ovaav ^Xd^rjv
TToXeo)?, diraXXaTTeiv elwdev. 6 Be irpaoTepo^ eaTi
Twv Kadapixoyv 6 ToioaBe t^pJiv o<roi Bed rrjv tt}?
Tpo(f)i]^ uTToplav T0i9 Tjyep-oaiv eVl ra tmv e\ov-
Twv fiij €XovTe<i t'Tot'/iOf? avTov^ evBeLKvvvTac
736 TrapeaKevaKore'i eireadai, TOUTOt? co? vocn}p,aTi
^
TToXeo)? e/ji7re(f)VK6Ti Bi ev(f)r)p,[a<; d7raXXayr]<;
ovopM diroLKLav Ti6ep,€vo^, evfievoi)^ on p,dXi(TTa
€êTrep,-\jraTO. TravTi fiev ovv vop-oOerovvri tovto
ap,6i<i ye TTft)? Kar dpxd'i Bpaareov, t)ixlv fxfjv en
' iiraAAay^s Slepbens : dTroAAovjjf MSS.
35°
LAWS, BOOK V
that is sound and clean both in habit and in body,
—
whatever the class of beast, unless a thorough
purge be made in the existing herd. This is a
matter of minor importance in the case of other
animals, and deserves mention only by way of illustra-
tion but in the case of man it is of the highest
;
importance for the lawgiver to search out and to

declare what is proper for each class both as regards
purging out and all other modes of treatment. For
instance, in respect of civic purgings, this would be
the way of it. Of the many possible modes of
purging, some are milder, some more severe those;
that are severest and best a lawgiver who was also a

despot ^ might be able to effect, but a lawgiver with-
out despotic power might be well content if, in
establishing a new polity and laws, he could effect
even the mildest of purgations. The best purge is
painful, like all medicines of a drastic nature, —
the
purge which hales to punishments by means of justice
linked with vengeance, crowning the vengeance
with exile or death it, as a rule, clears out the
:
greatest criminals when they are incurable and

cause serious damage to the State. A milder form
of purge is one of the following kind:— when,
owing to scarcity of food, people are in want, and
display a readiness to follow their leaders in an
attack on the property of the wealthy, — then the
lawgiver, regarding all such as a plague inherent in
the body politic, ships them abroad as gentlv as
"
possible, giving the euphemistic title of " emigration
to their evacuation. By some means or other this
must be done by every legislator at the beginning,
» Cp. 709 E tt
351
PLATO
Tovrcdv dirovcoTepa ^ ra irepl Tavr icrrl (rv/x/Se-
^rjKOTa vvv ovre 'yap airoiKiav ovt iKXoyrjv riva
Kaddpaecof; Bel /ubrj'âvdcrOai 7rpo<; to irapov, olov
B he TLvcov ^vppeovTcjv €k ttoWcov rd fiev rrijycov
TO, Se "Xêi/jLdppwv ei? fiiav \ifxvr)v dvayKoiov
rov vovv (^vXarreLv oirwi OTt Ka-
7rpo(Te'XôvTa<;
dapdiTarov earai to avppeov vScop, tu fxev
€âvT\ovvTa<i, tu S' dTro')(eTevovTa<; koX rrapa-
TpirrovTa^. irovo'i h\ ft)9 eoixe, Kal Kivhvv6<i iaTiv
iv "rrdarj KaTacrK€vfj iroXiTiKfj' ra 8' iirel'Trep
\6ya) y ecrrt Ta vvv dX)C ovk epycp irpaTTo/xeva,
TTGTrepdvda) Te rjfilv rj ^vXXoyr) Kal KaTa vovv
r] Kadap6Ti]<; avTrj<; eaToy ^vfiêîjKvta' tou? yap
C KaKov/j,€v d<piKV€i-
adai, Tov<i S' dyadov<i 6i9 hvvafxiv evfxeveis tXeco? re
TT poaaydifieda.
ToSe Be firj XavOaveTco yiyvofxevov rj/jLd<; ev-

Tv-^rjfia, oTi KaOdirep eiTrofiev ttjv TOiv 'Yipa-
K\eiS(t)v diTOLKiav evTV^êiv, &)? yr]^; Kal 'X^pecov
aTTOKOTrrj^; Kal vofjLi]<; irepi Betvrjv Kal eTriKLvhwov
epcv €^€<l>vy€V, r)v vopioOeTeladai dvayKacrdeicrr]
D TToXei TMV dpâlcov ovtc eav olov re aKivtjTov
[ovBev] ' OVT av Ktvelv BvvaTov icrri Tiva Tpoirov,
ev')(r] Be fiovov &)? eVo? elTrelf XeiveTai Kal a/niKpa
fxeTdâ(7i<i €vXal3r)<i iv ttoXXm xP^^V o-P'tKpbv

'
airovcirepa : aroirwrfpa, MSS. (a«oirc<JTepa Ritter)
* ir€£p5 Badham, Schanz irnQoi MSS. :
• [ohSfv'] wanting in MSS.
'
The citizenswho are to form the new Magnesian colony
are to be drawn from various quarters, and thej' must be
352
LAWS, BOOK V
but in our case the task is now even more simple ;
for we have no need to contrive for the present

either a form of emigration or any other purgative
selection ;but just as when there is a confluence of
floods from many sources —
some from springs, some
—
from torrents into a single pool, we have to take
diligent precautions to ensure that the water may be
of the utmost possible purity, by drawing it off in
some cases, and in others by making channels to
divert its course.^ Yet toil and risk, it would appear,
are involved in every exercise of statecraft. Since,
however, our present efforts are verbal rather than
actual, let us assume that our collection of citizens is
now completed, and its purity secured to our satisfac-
tion ;for we shall test thoroughly by every kind of
test and by length of time the vicious among those
who attempt to enter our present State as citizens,
and so prevent their arrival, whereas we shall
welcome the virtuous with all possible graciousness
and goodwill.
And let us not omit to notice this piece of good
—
luck that, just as we said * that the colony of the
Heraclidae was fortunate in avoiding fierce and
dangerous strife concerning the distribution of land
and money and the cancelling of debts (so we are
similarly lucky) for when a State is obliged to
;
settle such strife by law, it can neither leave vested

interests unaltered nor yet can it in any wise alter
them, and no way is left save what one might term
that of " pious aspiration " and cautious change, little
by little, extended over a long f>eriod, and that way
carefully tested (like streaniB flowing into a reservoir) before
being admitted.
* 684 E.
353
PLATO
fieraî^dôvaiv, rjSe'^ twv klvovvtwv ael KeKTrj-
fiivtov fxev avroiv yijv a(f)Oovov virdp')(êi,v, KCKTrj-
fxevcov 8e koI ocpeiXera^; avroiv TroXXoy?, edeXovTcov
re TOVTcov tttj to?? aTropovfiivoc^; 8i' eTrietKeiav
E KOivoiveiv TO. pev d(f)C€VTa<;, rd he vefiOfi€vov<;,
dfifj ye TTT) T?}? fieTpioTTjTo^ e'xpfxevov'i kuI ireviav
rjyovfievov^ elvai purj to rtjv oiiaiav eXuTrio Troietv
dXXd TO TT]v dTrXrjaTiav irkeia}. awrr^pia^ t€
yap dpyrj fieyiaTrj ttoXco)? avrrj yiyveTai, koX
etrX TavT7)<; olov Kprjirlhoii fiovifMOV eTroiKoSofielv
Suvarov ovTCva dv vdTepov i7roiKoBop,fj xi? Koap-ov
iroXiTiKov TTpoarjKovTa ttj ToiavTT) KaraaTaa-er
737 TavTT)^ Be aaOpd^ ov(rr]<; [tt}? /i,6Ta/Sacr€&)9j ^ ovk
evTTopo^ rj p^TU tuvtu ttoXltlkt] 7rpdîevyop,ev, orrr) ttot dv eiroLovpeda
avTrjvy7]. KaX tovto p.ev olov €pp.a 7ro\e&)9 '^p2v
Keiadoi Ta vvv dveyKkrjTOVi yap Bel Ta<i ov<Tia<i
Trpo<; dW^Xov^ KaTaaKevdêadai dpa)<; ye ttg)?,
^
B /) p,r) TTpolevai irpoTepov el<i Tovpîrpocrdev eK0VTa<i
elvai Trj<; dXX7]<; KaraaKevr}^, ot? r} iraXaia
eyKXi']fxaTa irpo'i dXXi]Xov<i, [zeal]* 6<T0i<i vov KaX
apLiKpov p-erfj. ot? Be, cb? rjplv vvv, 6eos] bracketed by England.

' eK6vTas Ast kK6vTa MSS.
:
* [koX] bracketed by Stallb.
354
LAWS, BOOK V
is this: —
there must already exist a supply of men to
effect the change, who themselves, on each occasion,
possess abundance of land and have many persons
in their debt, and who are kind enough to wish to
give a share of these things to those of them who
are in want, partly by remissions and partly by dis-
tributions, making a kind of rule of moderation and
believing that poverty consists, not in decreasing
one's substance, but in increasing one's greed. For
this is the main foundation of the security of a State,
and on this as on a firm keel it is possible to build
whatever kind of civic organisation may be subse-
quently built suitable for the arrangement described ;
but if the foundation be rotten, the subsequent

political operations will prove by no means easy for
any State, This difficulty, as we say, we avoid it ;
is better, however, that we should explain the means

by which, if we had not actually avoided it, we
might have found a way of escape. Be it explained,
then, that that means consists in renouncing avarice
by the aid of justice, and that there is no way of escape,
broad or narrow, other than this device. So let this
stand fixed for us now as a kind of pillar of the State.
The properties of the citizens must be established
somehow or other on a basis that is secure from
intestine disputes otherwise, for people who have
;
ancient disputes with one another, men will not of

their own free will proceed any further with political
construction, if they have a grain of sense.^ But as
for those to whom —
as to us now —
God has given
a new State to found, and one free as yet from
internal feuds, —
that those founders should excite
* There may be an allusion here to Solon the first step in
;
his political reforms was a measure for the abolition of debts

( " Seisachtheia ").
355
PLATO
aiTiov<i yeveadai 8ia rrjv hiavofx-qv t% yr)^ re
Kat, oiKr)(Teo)v ovk avOpcoirivof av eirj fxera kukt}^
Trdarji; dfiaOta.
C Tt<r ovv 8r) rpoTTO? av eirj tt)? 6pdrj<; Biavofirj^ ;
rrpcoTov fxev rov avrcov oyKov rov dpi0fiov Bel
raâadai, ttoctov elvat ypecov. fierd Be rovTo
TTjv htavop,rjv twv Ka6^ OTTOcra fiepr)
TroXtrcov,
7r\i]deL Kul oirrfkiKa SiatpcTeov avTOv<i, dvop,o-
'KojrjTeov iirl 8e Tavra rrjv re yijv Kal Ta<i
oi,Ki]cr€i<i on
fidXiara taa<i iTrcve/xrjriov. 07/C09
Si] 7r\7]0ov<; iKav6<; ovk dWa)<; opdo}^ 'îyvoiT av
\e-)(de\<i 7] irpot rrivyrfv Kal ra^ TOiv irXrjcnoxcopoov
D 7ro\€i<i, jrjii /Mev, oiroar) ttoctov';^

<TCM)^pova<i 6vra<i
iKavT) rpeêiv, irXelovo'i 8' ovBev TrpoaSel, TrXrjOovi
oe, OTTocroi Tovf 7rpo(T')(û)pov<i dhiKovvrd^ re avTov<;
dfivvacrdaL Svvarol Kal yeiToa-iv eavT&v dSiKOV-
fievoi^ jSorjdrja-aL firj iravrdiracnv d'rropw'i hvvaivr
av. TavTa S' ISovref rrjv ')((opav Kal rov<; <yeirova<i
opiovp,eda epym Kal \6yoi<;- vvv 8e a')(rjp,aTO<i
eveKa Kal vTroypacfirj'i, iva irepaivrjrai, irpo^ rrjv
vofiodecfiav 6 X.0709 ltq).
E TlevrdKa [xev îXioi ecnaxrav Kal rcTTapaKovTa,
dpidfJLov Tuio<i eveKa Trpoa^Kovrof, yewp-opoL re kuI
dp,vvovvT€^ TTj vopfi' yi] 3e Kal olK'âei<; cocrai/Ttu? to.
avra peprj 8iavep,'r)6i]TO)V, yevopeva dvijp Kal KXi^pos

^vvvoprj. 8vo pev Srj pepr) rov iravro^ dpidpov
TO irpoiTOV veprjdrJTQ), pera Se ravra rpia rov ^
avrov' 7re(f)VK€ yap Kal rerTapa Kal irevre Kal
P'€')(pi ro)V 8eKa iê^rj^. 8el 8rj irepl dpiOpcov to
1 TToiTovi England: iriaovs MSS.

' Tov avTov Stephens, Schanz: rhv avrbv MSS.
356
LAWS, BOOK V
enmity against themselves because of the distribution
of land and houses would be a piece of folly com-
bined with utter depravity of which no man could
be capable.
What then would be the plan of a right distribu-
tion ? we must fix at the right total the
First,
number of citizens next, we must agree about the
;
distribution of them, —
into how many sections, and
each of what size, they are to be divided and ;
among these sections we must distribute, as equally

as we can, both the land and the houses. An
adequate figure for the population could not be
given without reference to the territory and to the
neighbouring States. Of land we need as much as
is capable of supporting so many inhabitants of
temperate habits, and we need no more and as to ;
population, we need a number such that they will

be able to defend themselves against injury from
adjoining peoples, and capable also of lending
some aid to their neighbours when injured. These
matters we shall determine, both verbally and
actually, when we have inspected the territory and
its neighbours; but for the present it is only a sketch
in outline of our legislation that our argument will
now proceed to complete.
—
Let us assume that there are as a suitable number
— 5,040 men, to be land-holders and to defend their
plots;'- and let the land and houses be likewise
divided into the same number of parts the man —
and his allotment forming together one division.
First, let the whole number be divided into two
next into three then follow in natural order four
;
and five, and so on up to ten. Regarding numbers,

» Cp. Ar. Pd. 1265» 30 ff.
357
PLATO
7e roaovrov iravra avSpa vofioOerovvra vevoTj-
738 K€vai, Tt? dpidfiof kuI Troto? irda-ai'i iroXecn
'X^ptjcrcfKOTaTOi; av eirj. Xeyco/xev Brj top ifKeiaTWi
Kal e(f)eî] KCicTTjfiivov'
ov fxev 8t] 7ra? et? iravra irdaa^ TOfia^ eiXrj'^^êv
6 Se tS)v rcTTapiiKovTa koI TrevTaKia-^cXtcov eU
re TToXe/xov Kal oaa Kar elprjvrjv [tt/so? diravra
ra ^v/jLôXata Kal KotvcovijpaTa],^ elacpopcbv re
TTcpi Kal 8iapop,(ov, ov TrA-etof? /ita? Seovacov
B k^rjKovra hvvair dv refivecrOai rop&v, ûêêt?
Be diro p,id<; /ie%/3t rcov heKa.
TaOra p.ev Kal Kara (T')(oX'qv Sec êâlwi
ovv Btj
Xaêlv, 069 dv 6 v6fio<i irpocrTdTrr} Xafi^dvecv e'Xêt

yap ovv ovK dXXw^ rj ravTj], Bei Be avrd prjOfjvat
TMvB' evcKa KaroiKiôvTt ttoXiv. out dv Kaivrjv e^
dp')(rj<; Tt9 TTOi^ OUT* dv TraXaidv Bie<^BappAvr]v iirc-
aK€vd^r]Tai, irepl decov ye Kal lepwv, drra re ev rrj

TToXet, eKaaroL'; IBpvadat Bel Kal covrivcop eirovop.d-
êadai dewv rj Baifiovcov, ovBel<i eTrL'êiprjaeL Kivetv
C vovv e')(o)v oaa e'/c /êXifiOJV rj AcoBcovrj'i rj reap "Afi-
fia)vo<i rj rive^ eTreiaav iraXaiol Xoyoi QirrjBr]
riva<i ireiaavre^;, (fiacr/xdrcov yevo/x€V(ov rj iTrnrvoia^
A,€%êta779 Oecov, Treia-divref ^ Be 6v(rt,a<i reXe-
rai<i av/u./j.LKrov<; Karearr^cravro etre avrodev
eTTC^^coplovt; etr ovv TvpprjvtKd<; eire K.V7rpia<;
etr dXXodev oOevovv, KaOiepwaav Be to4?
roiovroi<i X6yoi<; (jiijfia^; re Kal dydX/xara Kal
ffcopoixi Kal vaov<;, re/j,evr) re rovroav eKdaroi<i
irefiivicrav rovrcov vo/ioOerrj rb (xpîKporarov
^ [iiphs . . . Koivcci'TifiaTa] bracketed by England.

* irttaeivTit W.-MoUendorff: ttflaavrts MSS.
358
LAWS, BOOK V
every man who is making laws must understand at least
—
thus muchj what number and what kind of number
will be most useful for all States. Let us choose that
which contains the most numerous and most con-
secutive sub-divisions. Number whole com-
as a
prises every division for all purposes; whereas the
number 5,040, for purposes of war, and in peace for
all purposes connected with contributions and dis-
tributions, will admit of division into no more than
59 sections, these being consecutive from one up to
ten.i
These facts about numbers must be grasped firmly
and with deliberate attention by those who are
appointed by law to grasp them they are exactly
:
as we have stated them, and the reason for stating

them when founding a State is this —
in respect of
:
gods, and shrines, and the temples which have to

be set up for the various gods in the State, and the
gods and daemons they are to be named after, no
—
man of sense, whether he be framing a new State
or re-forming an old one that has been corrupted,
will attempt to alter the advice from Delphi or
Dodona or Ammon, or that of ancient sayings, what-
—
ever form they take whether derived from visions
or from some reported inspiration from heaven. By
this advice they instituted sacrifices combined with
rites, either of native origin or imported from
Tuscany or Cyprus or elsewhere and by means
:
of such sayings they sanctified oracles and statues

and altars and temples, and marked off for each of
them sacred glebes. Nothing of all these should
* The number 5,040 is here chosen because, for a number
of moderate size, it has the greatest possible number of

di\i8ors (59), including all the digits from 1 to 10.
359
PLATO
1) (iTrdi'TOiv ovêv KLvr^reov, Tolf Se fiepeatp kKd<TToi<;
deov rj rj kuL riva rjpcoa aTroBoriov, iv
Saifiova
he rfi TYj^ yj}? Biavofif) Trpcorot^ iâipera Te/jLevrj
T€ Kai TTui^ra ra irpoar^Kovra cnrohoreov, 07r&)9
av ûWoyoi eKciarcov rtov /xepcov Kara )^p6vov'i
yiyvofievoc tov<; 7rpo(TTa)(^0€VTa<i re ra? ')(^pe'ia<i
et<;
eKdara<; ev/Jidpeiav TrapacrKevd^coai xal <pi\o(f)pov-

(ovrac re d\X7]\ov<; fierd 9vatS)v kuI ocKeioyvrat
E Koi yuoypL^coatv, ov fieltôv ovSev TroXet dyadov, rj
yvoypL/jLovi avrov<; avroi<; eJvar orrov yap /jltj (/)&)9
dW7]Xoc<i earlv dWijXcov iv roU rpo-noi'i, dXXd
(TKorci, ovr av rt/j,r}<; t?}? aîa? ovr dp')(^Siv ovre
OLK7](; TTore t/? av t^9 7rpoar]KOvarj<; opOw'i rvy-
')(^dvoL.Bel hr) irdvra dvSpa ev Trpo? ev rovro
arrevheiv ev rrdaat^ rroXeacv, orrco'; pbrjre avro<;
KL^SrjXot TTOre <f>av€trai orwovv, diTXovopd, KaOdirep Trerrcov
d(f)^ lepov, T^? r(ov voficov /caracr/cef?;? dyjOr]^ ovaa
rd')(^ davfidaai rov uKovovra to nptbrov
av
TTOiTjaeiev' ov firjv dXX' dvaXoyiÔfievo) Kal Treipoy-
fievo} (pavelrai Bevrepca^ av 7r6Xt<; oiKelaOai rrpo'i
TO êXriarov. rdx*^ B' ovk dv Tt9 irpoaBeâiro
avT7)v Bid rb p,rj avvrjOes vofioderj] firj rvpavvovvri'
rb S' earlv 6p06rara, elrrelv fxev rrjv dpiarrjv
TToXirelai' Kal Bevrepav Kal rpirrjv, Bovvai Be
elirovra aipeaiv eKdarw rS> rrj^
B Kvpiw. TTOiSniev Br) Kara rovrov rbv Xoyov Kal
^ The midflle line on the draiightsboard to move a piece

:
placed on this line was eauivalent.t.o"trvingone'8last chance."
360
LAWS, BOOK V
the lawgiver alter in the slightest degree to each
;
section he should assign a god or daemon, or at the

least a hero; and in the distribution of the land he
should assign first to these divinities choice domains
with all that pertains to them, so that, when
assemblies of each of the sections take place at
the appointed times, they may provide an ample
supply of things requisite, and the people may
fraternize with one another at the sacrifices and gain
knowledge and intimacy, since nothing is of more
benefit to the State than this mutual at quaintance
for where men conceal their ways one from another
in darkness rather than light, there no man will
ever rightly gain either his due honour or office, or
the justice that is befitting. Wherefore every man
in every State must above all things endeavour to
show himself always true and sincere towards every-
one, and no humbug, and also to allow himself to be
imposed upon by no such person.
The next move in our settling of the laws is one
that might at first hearing cause surprise because
—
of its unusual character like the move of a draughts-
player who quits his "sacred line " ^ none the
;
less, it will be clear to him who reasons it out and

uses experience that a State will probably have a
constitution no higher than second in point of
excellence. Probably one might refuse to accept
this, owing to unfamiliarity with lawgivers who are
not also despots ^ but it is, in fact, the most correct
:
plan to describe the best polity, and the second

best, and the third, and after describing them to
give the choice to the individual who is charged
with the founding of the settlement. This plan let
» Cp. 735 D.
361
PLATO
ra I'vv rjfiei'i, elTT6vre<i dperfj irpcoji^v iroXneiav
Kol hevrepav Koi rpiTTjv tt)v Se aipeaiv KXeivia
T€ d7ro8i8a)n6v rd vvv koI et Tt? dX\o<; [ai/] ^ Bij
TTore ideXrjaetev cttI ttjv twv toiovtiov eKXoyrjv
iXOoju Kara rov eaurov rpoTrov diroveiâadat, ro
<f}LXov avTW TT]<i avTOv 'rrarpiZo^. TrpcoTrj fxev
TOLVVV 7roA.t9 T€ €(XTl KOl TToXiTfLa Kol VOflOl
dpiaroi, OTTov to TrdXai Xeyo/xevov dv yiyvrjraL
C Kara irdaav rr)v iroXiv on, /idXia-Ta' XeyeraL Se
0)9 ovTQx; earl Koivd rd (fiiXcov. tovt ovv etVe irov
vvv eaTiv etr earai irore, KOivd<; jxkv yvvalKa'i,
Koivovf} he elvav TralSa^;, KOivd Se ')(p't]/ui.aTa ^vp,-
Travra, koX Trda-rj to Xeyop^vov cSiov
p.rj'âv^
•navTayoQev e« tov ^lov drrav e^rjprjTai, p.ep,ri-
"X^dvrjTai 8' et? to Zvvarov KaX Ta (fyvcrei iBia KOivd
d/iifj yi "Trrj yeyovivai, olov ofifiUTa kcu (otu kuI
')^6ipa<; Koivd fiev opav hoKelv koi dxavetv koI

D irpaTTetv, eiraivelv re av kuI -xfriyeiv KaS" ev oTt
fidXicTTa ^vp.'TTavTa^ eirl Tot9 avTol<; ')(aLpovTa ^ oiTive^
vo/jboi piav OTt direpydôvTaL,
p,dXi(TTa ttoXlv
TovTOiv v-nepôXfi trpo'; dpeTrjv ovBei^ iroTe opov
dXXov 0ep.evo^ opdoTspov ov8e /SeXTico drjcreTai. tj
fiev St) ToiavTi] 7r6Xt9, etVe ttov deoX rj iralSei; Ocmv
avTTjv ol/covai [7rXeLov6p,€voi KaTOLKovar 8i6 Sr) Trapdhetyp-d ye
E 7roXiT€La<; ovk dXXrj XPV (fKOirelv, dXX i')(ôp,evov I add.
•'
[vXuou'i ev6s] bracketed by Gomperz, England.
362
LAWS, BOOK V
us now adopt
let us state the p>olities which rank
:
second, and third in excellence ; and the choice

first,
let us hand over to Clinias and to whosoever else

may at any time wish, in proceeding to the selection
of such things, to take over, according to his
own disposition, what he values in his own country.
That State and polity come first, and those laws
are best, where there is observed as carefully as
possible throughout the whole State the old saying ^
that " friends have all things really in common." As
to this condition, — whether
it anywhere exists now,
or ever will exist, —

which there is community
in
of wives, children, and all chattels, and all that is
called " private " is everywhere and bv every means
rooted out of our life, and so far as possible it is
contrived that even things naturally "private" have
—
become in a way " communized," eyes, for instance,
and ears and hands seem to see, hear, and act in
—
common, and that all men are, so far as possible,
unanimous in the praise and blame they bestow,
rejoicing and grieving at the same things, and that
they honour with all their heart those laws which
render the State as unified as possible, no one will —
ever lay down another definition that is truer or better
than these conditions in point of super-excellence.
—
In such a State, be it gods or sons of gods that
—
dwell in it, they dwell pleasantly, living such a life
as this. Wherefore one should not look elsewhere
for a model constitution, but hold fast to this one,
and with all one's power seek the constitution tliat
is as like to it as possible. That constitution which
we are now engaged upon, if it came into being,
* A Pythagorean maxim frequently cit«d by Plato: cp.
r^p. 424 A, Eurip. Orest. 725.
PLATO
av jevoêvT] ttw? adavacria^ efyyvrara koX ri/xla ^
8evTep(t)<i' rpirrjv Se /jLera ravra, iav 6eo<; iOeXr},
ScaTrepavovfieOa. vvv 8" ovv ravTrjv Ttva Xejofxev
Kal 7r<w9 yevofievrjv av roiavTrjv ;
êifidadcov fikv Br] rrpoiTOV yrjv re Kal olKia<;,
740 Kal fiij Koivfj 'yewpyovvTMv, eireLhrj to toiovtov
fielôv rj Kara rrjv vvv yevecriv Kal Tpo<pT]v Kal
iraihevcTiv eiprjTar vcfj-eaOcov S" ovv ToiaSe Siavoia
'ira)<i, ft)? dpa hel tov Xajôvra rrjv Xrjîv ravrrjv
vo/Mi^€iv fxev KocvTjv avTTjv T^9 7r6\e<u9 ^v/xirdcnTi,

TrarpiBo^ Be ova-rjq t% ^^topa? Oepairevetv avrrjv Bel
fi€i^6v(t)<; Tj /jLrjTepa iralBa^, tG) Kal Becnroivav 9eov
avTTjv ovaav dvrjT&v ovtcov yeyovivai, Tavra S'
e;êi^'BiavoijfiaTa Kal irepl tov<; eyxoapôv; O€ov<i

B re dfia Kal Baifiova^. ottoxi 5' av ravra el<i rov
del ')(^p6vov ovrco<i eôvra VTrdp^rj, rdBe irpoaBia-
vor}reov' ocrai elal ra vvv rj/xtv earlat Biave/xt]-
deXcrai rov dpidjxov, ravra<; Beiv del rocavra^
elvat Kal fiijre ri TrXetou? yiyvecrdai firjre ri trore
iXdrrovi. w8' ovv av to roiovrov êâieo^
ylyvotro irepl vdaav irokiv 6 \a)(0)v rov KXrfpov
KaraXenrero) del ravrr)<; rrj<; oIkij(T€(o^ eva fiovov
KXrjpovofiov r(bv kavrov ttulBcov, bv av avra>
/idXiara t} îXov, BidBo-)(ov Kal Oepairevr'qv deoiv
C Kal yevov<; Kal 7r6Xe&)9, roiv re ^covrtov Kal 0(tov<;
av rfBrj reXot el]Xela<i re eKBoadai Kara vop-ov rov e'mra')(dri-
ao/xevov, dppevd^ re, oh av rijf yevecrewi iXXetTrij
TMv TToXircov, rovroi<; vlelf; Bcavifieiv, Kara x^P''^
^ rtiala my conj. (also Apelt, independently) : ij fxla MSS.,
edd.
364
LAWS, BOOK V
would be very near to immortality, and would come
second in point of merit. The third we shall inves-
tigate hereafter, if God so will for the present,
;
however, what is this second best polity, and how

would it come to be of such a character ?
First, let them portion out the land and houses,
and not farm in common, since such a course is
beyond the capacity of people with the birth, rearing
and training we assume. And let the apportionment
—
be made with this intention, that the man who
receives the portion should still regard it as common
property of the whole State, and should tend the
land, which is his fatherland, more diligently than a
mother tends her children, inasmuch as it, being
a goddess, is mistress over its mortal population, and
should observe the same attitude also towards the
local gods and daemons. And in order that these
things may remain in this state for ever, these further
rules must be observed the number of hearths, as
:
now appointed by us, must remain unchanged, and

must never become either more or less. This will
be securely effected, in the case of every State, in
the following way the allotment-holder shall always
:
leave behind him one son, whichever he pleases, as

the inheritor of his dwelling, to be his successor in
the tendance of the deified ancestors both of family
and of State, whether living or already deceased as;
to the rest of the children, when a man has more

than one, he should marry off the females according
to the law that is to be ordained,^ and the males he
should dispose of to sueh of the citizens as have no
male issue, by a friendly arrangement if possible
» Cp.742a
VOL. 1. N ^ ^
PLATO
fjkev /xaXi(TTa' iav 8e riacv iWeiTTcoac âyOfxef, r)
TrXeiot"? eTTiyovot yiyvayvrai OrjXei^ rj tiv€<s appeve^

€KdaT(ov, Koi TovvavTLov OTav eXaTTOu? ooac
Tj
D iraiScov a(f)opia<i yevofiivrj^, irdvTwv rovrcov ap-^rju

fjv av 6d)/jLe0a jxeyiarr^v koI TtfitcoTcirrjv, avrq
aK€ylra/jLevT] tl ')(pr] ')(^prj(TdaL rot? Treptyevofieuoi,';
fj TOi(i iWeiTTOvcTL, iropiêroa fir}')(avriv on fiaXiara
OTTft)? TerrapaKOVTa olKâei<i
ai TTevraKLa)(î\Lai koI
del fiovov eaovrai. firj'yaval 8' eicl iroXkar koX
yap eVfcrêo-et? yeve(Te(o<i ol<; av evpov^ 57 yeveai.';,
Kal rovvavTiov iirt/jLeXeiai Kal airovSal irXridov^
yevvrm-drcov elal rt/xal'i re Kal dTipnai^ Kal vovOe-
E rrjcrecnirpea^vTOiv ireplviovi [Sid Xoycov vovderiq-
hvvavrai iroielv o Xiyofiev.
TiKOiv],^ at 7rai/T&)9 del ^
Kal 8t) Kal TO ye reXo?, dv irdcra diropla irepl rrjv
dvLcraaiv tcov irevTaKKT^^îXloov Kal TerrapaKovra
oiKwv yLyvTjrai, eTTtûcri? S' virep^dXXovaa
rifjLiv iroXirwv 8id <f)tXo<ppocrvvr)v rrjv rcov ^vvoi-
KovvTfov aXX'^XoLt û/xâivrj kui diropSifiev, to
TraXaiov irov virdp'êL /jLrj-^dvr)fia, o TroXXaî?
etTTOfiev, eKTrofMirrj diroiKicbv (îXrj yiyvop.kv^) irapd
<f)[X(ov, oiv dv iiTLTTjSeiov elvat Sokj], edv S' av
Kal TOvvavTLOV eireXOri nore KVfia KaTaKXvajxov
741 (pepov vocrcov rj iroXefioiv (pOopd, eXaTTOvi Be TToXif
70V rerayfjievov dptOfiov Sl" 6p(f>avLa^ yevojvrai,

eKovTa^ pev ov Bel iroXna'i rrapep-âXXeuv voOr)
TraiBeia 7re7rai8evp,evov<;, dvdyKijv Be ovBe 6e6<i
elvai Xeyerai BvvaTb<; îdêaOai.
* [5ia \6yaii' vovderriTiKuv'] bracketed by England.
* at TrdvTcos ae\ : aramaxrai M8S. {anavTas at Schanz)
^ i.e. the Law- wardens ; cp. 755 Bflf.
366
LAWS, BOOK V
but where such arrangements prove insufficient, or
where the family is too lar^re either in females or in
males, or where, on the other hand, it is too small,
through the occurrence of sterility, in all these —
cases the magistrates, whom we shall appoint as the
highest and most distinguished,^ shall consider how
to deal with the excess or deficiency in families, and
contrive means as best they can to secure tliat the
5,040 households shall remain unaltered. There
are many contrivances possible where the fertility
:
is great, there are methods of inhibition, and con-
trariwise there are methods of encouraging and

stimulating the birth-rate, by means of honours and
dishonours, and by admonitions addressed by the
old to the young, which are capable in all ways of
producing the required effect. Moreover, as a final
step, — in case we are in absolute desperation about
the unequal condition of our 5,040 households, and
are faced with a superabundance of citizens, owing
to the mutual affection of those who cohabit with
one another, which drives us to despair, there still —
remains that ancient device which we have often
mentioned, namely, the sending forth, in friendly wise
from a friendly nation, of colonies consisting of such
people as are deemed suitable. On the other hand,
should the State ever be attacked by a deluging
wave of disease or ruinous wars, and the houses
fall much below the appointed number through
bereavements, we ought not, of our own free will, to
introduce new citizens trained with a bastard training
— but " necessity " (as the proverb runs) " not even
God himself can compel." *
* A dictum of Simonides ; cp. Prolog. 345 6 Laws
; 818 A ff.
367
PLATO
TaOr' ovv Srj top vvv Xeyofievov \6jov rj;j,lv îafiei'
vapaiveiv, \eyovTa''D. iravrcov avhpSiv apiaroi, rrjp

OfioioTtjTa Koi IcrorrjTa Kal to ravrov Koi 6/xo\oyov-
fievov TifM(ovT€<; Kara (f>u(Tiv firj aviere Kara re apid-
B pLOv Kal Trdaav Svvafiiv rrjv rcov KaXSiv KayaOoiv
rrpayfiaTtov' Kal 8r) Kal vvv rov apidfiov p.ev irpwrov
Sia îov TravTO'i (f)v\dâT€ rov elprjfievov, elra ro
rij'i ovaia<i v\ffO<; re Kal fieyedo^, o ro irpSirov
eveCfiaaOe puerpiov ov, p,r} drifida-rjre rw re (ovelaOai
Kal r(p nooXelv tt/oo? aXX'^Xov<i' ovre yap 6 veifia^
K\rjpo<; ^ Siv 6eo aTretdovvri v6p,o}9 7^'? lepd^ oucrriroc<;
OvfiaaL Kal hevrepoL^: Kal fiixP'' Tp^^yi/, rov irpid-

fievov r] dirohopêvov cov eXa')(êv olKoireBcov rj
yrjTreBcov rd eirl rovrot<; rrperrovra Trda-êiv Trddr).

ypdyfravra S" iv rol<i iepoi<i Orjcrovai Kvrrapirriva^
ixvi)pa<i rov eireira xpovov Karay€ypafip.eva<i'
649
TT/oo? rovroa 8' ere ^vXaKrrjpia rovrcov, ott&i? dv
J) ytyvrjrai, Karacrrijaovaiv iv ravrrj royv dpyoiv
rjri^dv o^vrarov opav Soktj, iV at rrapd ravra
CKdarore frapayioyal yi,yv6p.evat /xrj Xavddvuxriv
avrov<i, dXXa KoXd^cocrt rov direidovvra apa vofiai
Kal Tft)oaov yap 8t) ro vvv emrarro/xevov

6ew.
dyadov ov rvy ^dvet irdaai'i ral<i Trei9opAvai<i
^ KXrjpot MSS. : KXrjpov MSS. marg., Zur., vulg.
368
LAWS, BOOK V
Let us then suppose that oar present discourse gives
the following advice : —
My most excellent friends,
be not slack to pay honour, as Nature ordains,
to similarity and equality and identity and congruity
in respect of number and of every influence produc-
tive of things fair and good. Above all, now, in the
first place, guard throughout your lives the number
stated in the next place, dishonour not the due
;
measure of the height and magnitude of your sub-

stance, as originally apportioned, by buying and
selling one to another: otherwise, neither will the
apportioning Lot,^ which is divine, fight on your side,
nor will the lawgiver for now, in the first place,
:
the law lays on the disobedient this injunction :
since it has given warning that whoso wills should

take or refuse an allotment on the understanding
that, first, the land is sacred to all the gods, and
further, that prayers shall be made at the first,
second, and third sacrifices by the priests and
priestesses, —
therefore the man who buys or sells
the house-plot or land-plot allotted to him must
suffer the penalty attached to this sin. The officials
shall inscribe on tablets of cypress-wood written
records for future reference, and shall place them
in the shrines ; furthermore, they shall place the
charge of the execution of these matters in the hands
of that magistrate who is deemed to be most keen of
vision, in order that all breaches of these rules may
be brought to their notice, and they may punish the
man who disobeys both the law and the god. How-
great a blessing the ordinance now described when —
the appropriate organisation accompanies it proves —
^ The lot was supposed to record the verdict of God (cp.
690 C, and Acts i. 26), —hence its sanctity.
PLATO
TToXecrt Tr)v
ejrofxevrjv KaraaKevrjV TTpoaXaôv,
Kara iraXaLav irapoLixiav ovhc\<; etaerai ttotc
rrjv
KaKo<; cbv aX,V efxireipo^ re /cal eTrieiKr)^ eOeai
E yevofievo^;' 'X^pij/jLariafxh'; yap ovt evecxTt (T(f)68pa
iv roiavrrj KaracTKevfj, ^vveireTai re avrfj iMrjhe
Tfi
Belv fX7]h^ eêlvat 'X^prjfxarlêa-dai roov aveKevOepwv
'^prj/jLaricTficov /xrjBevl fjbrjSiva, Kad^ oaov iir-
oveL8c(TTO<; Xejofievrj âvavaia ri6o<i dTrorpeirei
iXevdepov, fxrjSe rb irapdirav dîovv €k t5)v
ToiovTCOv ^vXkiyeiv 'X^pijfiara. rovrot^ B'
TTyoos'
742 €Ti v6fio<; eirerai rrdac rovroi^, firjB^ eêivai %/Of-

(Tov /xrjSe apyvpov KeKrrjcrdai firjSeva firjSevl
iBccoTT}, vofxia/jLU B eveKa aWayfj<; rrj<i kuO
rjfiepav, rjv Brjfiiovpyoi^ re dWaTreadat a-'^êBov
dvayKoiov, koI ndcnv 6tt6(joi,<; ^ XP^^^ "^^^ Toiovrcov
fiiaOov<; fii(T6(i)Toi<;,Bov\oL'i /cal eiroLKoi^, dirorivetv.
COP eveKa âfiev to vofxia/xa KTrjreov avroi'i fiev
evTifxov, T0i9 Be aX\oi<; dv6p(07roi<; dBoKtfiov.
Koivov 5' 'EiWrjvLKOv vofiLCTfia eveKa re arpuTeicov
Kal diToBriixLOiv elti/
dvdyKT) eKaaTore KeKrrjaOaL rf} TroXei vofiiafxa
B 'EWrjvcKov. IBkotj} 8' dv dpa Trore dvdyKrj rt?
yLyvqTat, diroBrnjuelv, Trapefievos fiev tou? dpôvra^;
dtroB'qpêirco, vopLi<7p.a Be dv irodev eywv êviKov
otKuBe dc^LKrjTai Trepiyevofievov, rfj iroXec avro
KaTUâWeTQ) tt/jo? \6yov dTToXapL^dvoav to eiri-
^ ivSaois Ast : b-K6a(»v MSS.

^ The proverb was, perhaps, ouSelj &ir(ipos fiatrai, —like
expericrUia docet.
LAWS, BOOK V
to all —
the States that obey it that is a thing which,
as the old proverb^ says, none that is evil shall
know, but only he that has become experienced and
practised in virtuous habits. For in the organisa-
tion described there exists no excess of money-
making, and it involves the condition that no
facility should or can be given to anyone to make
—
money by means of any illiberal trade, inasmuch
as what is called contemptible vulgarity perverts
—
a liberal character, and also that no one should
ever claim to heap up riches from any such source.
Furthermore, upon all this there follows also a law
which forbids any private person to possess any gold
or silver, only coin for purposes of such daily exchange
as it is almost necessary for craftsmen ^ to make use of,
and all who need such things in paying wages to
hirelings, whether slaves or immigrants. For these
reasons we say that our people should possess coined
money which is legal tender among themselves, but
valueless elsewhere. As regards the universal
—
Hellenic coinage, for the sake of expeditions and
foreign visits, as well as of embassies or any other
missions necessary for the State, if there be need to
—
send someone abroad, for sucii objects as these it is
necessary that the State should always possess Hel-
lenic money. If a private citizen ever finds himself
obliged to go abroad,' he may do so, after first
getting leave from the magistrates ; and should he
come home with any surplus of foreign monev, lie
shall deposit it with the State, and take for it an
^ They require coined money for their bosineas dealings
with one another : cp. Hep. 371 B ff.

» C5p. 950 D S.
PLATO
'X^topiov lBiov^€vo<; 8' dv Tt? (âiirqrai, hr]fi6(xi6v re
yiyveado) xal 6 ^vpeiSax; koI firj (ppd^mv dpa koI
oveiSei fierd tov dywyovro'i evo')(0<t earw, Koi
^rj/jbia 7r/0O9 tovtoc; firj ekdrTOVi tov ^cvckov
K0/xi(T6ivT0<; vo filer ixaTO<i. ya/xovvTa Be koi
eKBiBovra {xriT ovv BiBovat ixrjTe Bex^crdai
TrpoLKa TO rrrapdirav firjS' rjvTivovv, /JLijBe vo/xiafia
irapaKaTaTideadai orcp firj ri? Trtcnevei, firjBi
Bavelêiv inl tokw, £09 eôv firj dfroBiBovat to
Trapdnrav Ta> BaveicrafiipQ} fxiJTe tokov p.rjTe
Ke^dXaiov.
TavTa B' OTi êXTKTTd ecrrt iroXei eTriTTjBev-
fxara iTTLTijBeveiv, loBe dv Tt? aKOirSiv 6pda)<; dv
D avTa BtaKpivoi, eiravaejiepcdv ei? Tr)v dp')(T)v del
Kol Ttjv ôvXtjctiv. ecTTi Br) tov vovv eôvTO<;
rroXiTiKov ôv\rjcri<;, (pafiiv, ov^ rjvTrep dv
ol TToWoi (palev, Belv ôv\ea0ai tov dyadov
vofjLodeTrjv ft)9 re elvai ttjv ttoXiv jj
pê'yicnrjv
vooiv €v vofjLodeTol Kol OTi fidXicTTa irXovaiav,
K€KTr]p,evrjv S" av xpvaca Kol dpfyvpia koI KaTa
lyrjv KoX KaTCL OdXuTTav dp')(ôv(Tav on irXelaTwv
nrpoaOelev 8' dv koX 6i<i dpta-Tijv Betv ôvXecrdai

Trjv ttoXlv elvai kuI ct)9 evBaifioveaTUTTjv tov ye
E 6pdSi<i vopbodeTovvTa. tovtcov Be to, fiev Bwutu
i<rTt ryiyveadai, tu Be ov BwaTU' tu fxev ovv
BvvaTa ôvXocT dv 6 BiaKocrficov, ra Be fir] Bwutu
ovt' dv ôvXoiTO fiaTulwi jBovXrjaei'i ovt dv
iTTixîpol. <T)(êBov /lev yap €vBaifiova<; dfia koX
dya6oLi<i dvdyKr) yiyveaOat' tovto fiev ovv
* i.e. if the citizens are to be happy they must be good.
In what follows it is shown that good men cannot be very

LAWS, BOOK V
equivalent in home coinage but should anyone be
;
found out keeping it for himself, the money shall be

confiscated, and the man who is privy to it and fails
to inform, together with the man who has imported
it, shall be liable to cursing and reproach and, in
addition, to a fine not less than the amount of the

foreign money brought in. In marrying or giving in
marriage, no one shall give or receive any dowry at
all. No one shall dejwsit money with anyone he
does not trust, nor lend at interest, since it is per-
missible for the borrower to refuse entirely to pay
back either interest or principal.
That these are the best rules for a State to
observe in practice, one would perceive rightly
if one viewed them in relation to the primary in-
tention. The intention of the judicious states-
man is, we say, not at all the intention which
the majority would ascribe to him they would say
;
that the good lawgiver should desire that the State,

for which he is benevolently legislating, should be as
large and as rich as possible, jK)ssessed of silver and
gold, and bearing rule over as many people as
possible both by land and sea ; and they would add
that he should desire the State to be as good and as
happy as possible, if he is a true legislator. Of these
objects some are possible of attainment, some
impossible such as are possible the organiser of the
;
State will desire ; the impossible he will neither

vainly desire nor attempt. That happiness and
goodness should go together is well-nigh inevitable,^
so he will desire the people to be both good and
rich nor very rich men good, therefore also the very rich
cannot be happy.
373
PLATO
ôvXoiT av 7r\ov(TLOV<; S' at" a(j)6hpa Kol a<ya-
dov<i aSvvaTOv, ttoWoI
ov<; ye Bt) irXovaiou'i ol
KaraXey overt' Xeyovai Be rou<i KeKTrjjxevov^ ev
oXiyoit Twv dvOpcoTTcov irXeicnov vo/jîa/xaTo^ aîa
743 KTrjfiaTa, a Kai kuko^ ri^ KeKrfJT av. el 5' eari
TOVTO ex^v, ovK uv eycoye avroiep6vTa)a{,r) xi? av tcra)?. oti, (f)aifiev av,
f] re €K BiKulov Kal uBLkov kt7](tc^ irXiov fj BiirXa-
aia earl t»}9 e« rou BiKaiov fxovov, rd re dvaXco-

fiara firjre /caXw? fi'>]re alaxpft^^ edeXovra dvaXia-
Keadai rwv kuXcov koL et? KoXa iOeXovrwv
BanavdaBai BnrXacrLrp iXdrrova. ovkovv irore
B av rcov e« BnrXaaiwv /xev KTr^p^drcov, rjfjilcreMv Be
dvaXcofidrwv o rd ivavrla rovrcov irpdrroiv yevoir
av eari Be 6 /xev dya66<; rovrcov,
TrXovcn(Jiirepo<;.
6 ov KaKoî, orav fj êiBcoXo^' <6rav Be fii]
Be
(f)etBQ)X6<;,> ^ rore 8i] irore Kai irdyKaKO'i' dya06<;
Be, oirep etprjrai rd vvv, ovBeirore' o fiev yap
BiKaiai^ Kai dBiKco^ Xafi^dvcov Kal fnjre BiKaloi^;
firjre dvaXicTKcov irXovcrio'i [orav
dSi,K(i)<i Kal
(fieiBcoXo^ B^ TrdyKaKO<i o)? ra TroXXa (ov
2?]"^ o
C dacorof /ndXa rrevr}^' 6 Be dvaXicr kwv re el(iiie\6s,y I add, and write 5^ irore for dt irort

of MSS.
* [oToc . . . ^] bracketed by Susemihl, Schanz.
e.g. A (a good man) gains (justly) £300, of which he

^
spends £100 on necessaries and £100 on noble objects, leaving

374
LAWS, BOOK V
happy; but it is impossible for tliem to be at once
—
both good and excessively rich rich at least as
most men count riches for they reckon as rich
;
those who possess, in a rare degree, goods worth a

vast deal of money, and these even a wicked man
might possess. And since this is so, I would never
concede to them that the rich man is really happy if
he is not also good while, if a man is superlatively
;
good, it is impossible that he should be also super-

latively rich. " Why so ? " it may be asked. Because,
we would reply, the gain derived from both right and
wrong is more than double that from right alone,
whereas the expenditure of those who refuse to
spend either nobly or ignobly is only one-half the
expenditure of those who are noble and like spend-
ing on noble objects; consequently, the wealth of
men who double their gains and halve their expendi-
ture will never be exceeded by the men whose pro-
cedure in both respects is just the opposite.^ Now
of these men, the one is good, and the other not
bad, so long as he is niggardly, but utterly bad when
he is not niggardly, and (as we have just said) at no
time good. For Avhile the one man, since he takes
both justly and unjustly and spends neither justly nor
unjustly, is rich (and the utterly bad man, being
lavish as a rule, is very poor), —
the other man, who
spends on noble objects, and gains by just means
only, is never likely to become either superlatively
him a balance of £100. B(a not-good man) gains (justly and

unjustly) £600, of which he spends £100 on necessaries, and
nothing on noble objects, leaving him a balance of £500.
The third type( C) is Morse than £ because he not only gains
but also spends wrongly. Type A shows how the good man
is neither very rich nor very poor, B, how the bad man may
be very rich, C, how the bad may be very poor.
375
PLATO
(T(f)oBpa 7revT)'i. u)<tt€ o \0709 rjfilv 6p66<i, w? ovk
elclv 01 ira/jLTrXovacoi ayadoi' el 8e /j,r) dyaOoi,
ovSe evhaifiove^.
'Hytttr he 7) TMV vofiwv vTTodecn^ evTavda
e^Xeirev, 6irai<; &)? eaovrat koI
evBai/j,ovi(TTaToi
oTi fidXiara dW7]Xoi<; (f)iXot' elev 8e ovk dp
TTOTC TToXiTai (ptXoi, oTTov TToXXal fiep Slkui ev
dXXrfXoi'i elev, iroXXai Se dhiiciai, dXX ottov a)<f
D oTt cTficKpoTarai zeal oXbyicrTai. Xeyo/u,ev St) firjTe
y(pvaov elvai Seiv fjbtjre dpyvpov ev rfj iroXei, /j,y]T^
av )(pr}/jLaTiafiov voXvv 8id âvavaia<i koI tokwv
firjSe ôaKTj/jidrcov ala')(p(iov, dXX^ oaa yeoypyia
SiSoyai KoX (pepei, Kal tovtcov oiroaa firj 'x^prjfiaTi'
^6/j,evov dvay/cdcrei d/xeXeiv o)v evexa TrecfiVKC rd
')(^prj[i,aTa. ravra
earl '^vx^ '^"^ crcofia, a
S'
Y^cop^'i Kal t^<? dXX't]<i TratSeta? ovk

yvfjLvacTTiKrj^;
E av TTore yevono dîa Xoyov, 810 Srj ^/aT/ziarfwy
eTTifieKeiav ov^ dira^ elprJKafiev (w? xph TeXevraiov
Tifiav ovTcop yap rptcov tmv dTrdvrcov irepl a Tras'
dvOpcoiro'i cnrovSdêi, TeXevraiov Kal rpirov icrrlv
7} r&v ;j^/3?7/i.aT&)i' 6pdSi<i orTTovSaÔfievrj (nrovSt],
<ra)/iaTO? 8e rrepi fiear}, Trpcorrj 8e "^v^V^- r) rrj<i
Kal 8r) Kal vvvSieêpôfieda iToXireiav, el fxev

fjv
T09ri/j,d<i ovro) rdrrerai, 6p6(t)<; vevofioOirrjrai' el
8i rc<; TMV rrpoararroixevwv avrodi vofxwv aco^po-

744 (rvvrj^ eîrpocrdev vyieiav ev rfj iroXei cfjavelrai
TTOifov rifilav r) rrXovrov vytela^ Kal rov aax^po-
velv, OVK 6pd(o<i dva(f)avetrai ride/xevc;. rovr ovv
8tj 7roXXdKi<; e7na-r)fiaivecr6ai XPV '^^^ vo/J-oOerrjv,
Tt re ôvXofxai, Kal, ei fioi ^vfiâlvei rovro r) Kal
1 Cd. fiSl C. 697 B, 728 E.
376
LAWS, BOOK V
rich or extremely poor. Accordingly, what we
iiavestated is true, —
that the very rich are not
good, and not being good, neither are they
happy.
Now the fundamental purpose of our laws was this,
— that the citizens should be as happy as possible,
and in the higliest degree united in mutual friend-
ship. Friendly the citizens will never be where
they have frequent legal actions with one another
and frequent illegal acts, but rather where these are
the fewest and least possible. We say that in the
State there must be neither gold nor silver, nor
must there be much money-making by means of
vulgar trading or usury or the fattening of gelded
beasts, but only such profit as farming offers and
yields, and of this only so much as will not drive a
man by his money-making to neglect the objects for
which money exists these objects are the soul and
:
the body, which without gymnastic and the other

branches of education would never become things of
value. Wherefore we have asserted (and that not
once only) ^ that the pursuit of money is to be
honoured last of all of all the three objects which
:
concern every man, the concern for money, rightly

directed, comes third and last; that for the body
comes second and that for the soul, first. Accord-
;
ingly, if it prescribes its honours in this order, the

polity which we are describing has its laws correctly
laid down but if any of the laws therein enacted shall
;
evidently make health of more honour in the State

than temperance, or wealth than health and temper-
ance, it will quite clearly be a wrong enactment.
Thus the lawgiver must ofttimes put this question to
himself—" What is it that I intend ? " and, '* Am I
377
PLATO
atroTvyx^dvo) tov aKoirov' koI ovto) to,')^ av I'crfu?
e/c T^9 vofiod€cTia<; auTo? re eKâivoi koI tou?
aWou9 aTraXXaTTOt, /car' dWov 8e rpoirov ovS" ar
€Pa TTore.
'O 8r) Xa^fov K€KTt]ad(i), (pufiiv, tov KXrjpov
B eTTi TOVTOi<; ol? elprjKajxev. KaXov kul rjv fxev 8r]
TaWa Lcra kôvra eva e/caarov iXOecv et?
iravr
TTjv aTTOiKvav eireihi] he ov hvvarov, aXX' o /iec
Tt9 TrXetw K€/CT7jfievo<; a<pl^€rai ')(^prjp,ara, 6 h"
iXuTTOva, Set ttoWcov eveKa tmv re Kara ttoXlv
Stj
Katpwv laoTrjTO^ eveKa ri/jiijfjLaTa dviaa yeveaOat,

IV ap')(âi T€ /cat elcrôpaX 8iave/j,a>vTat Kara ^ -rr^v
T^9 dîa<i €Kd(TTOi<; tl/jLtJv, fxr] kut dperrjv fiovov

TTjv re irpoyovcov koI rrjv avTov, fi,r}8e Kara a-w/xd-
C Tcov KoX evixop(îa<;,
la-'xy'i koI Kara rrXovrov dWa
'X^prjacv Kal irevia'i, ra? rifid^; re fcal dpx^'i &>?
itralrara ro) dviaw û/u,p,€rpo) 8e d7roXa/j,^dvovT€<;
firj htacpepwvrai. rovrcov %a/Oii/ rerrapa p,eykdei
rr] rinrjixari Kal orav TrXovcn-
(orepoi CK 7rev7Jr(ov Kal e« 7rXovcrl(ov rrevqre<i
yiyvopbevoL jneraâlvcoaiv ei? to TrpoarJKOv eKacrrot
eavroicTi rifxrj/jLa.
D T68e 8' iirl rovroi<} av vofiov a)(r)p.a eyoay
av rideirfv w? eiropbevov. 8el yap ev rroXet ttov,
<f)afiev, rfi rov /neyiarov voaT]fj,aro<; ov /xeOe^-
ovcTTj, hidaraaiv rj ardcnv opdorepov av eir]
KeKXrjcrdai, firjre ireviav rrjv 'XâXcTrrjv ivelvat
^ ZtavifiuivTau Kara : ical SiafO/xal MSS. (Ast brackets upx^

LAWS, BOOK V
succeeding in this, or am I wide of the mark ? " In
this way he might, perhaps, get through the task of
legislation himself, and save others tlie trouble of it
but in no other way could he ever possibly do so.
The man who has received an allotment shall hold
it, as we say, on the terms stated. It would indeed
have been a splendid thing if each person, on
entering the colony, had had all else equal as well.
Since this, however, is impossible, and one man will
arrive with more money and another with less, it is
necessary for many reasons, and for the sake of
equalising chances in public life, that there should
be unequal valuations, in order that offices and
contributions may be assigned in accordance with
the assessed valuation in each case, —
being framed not
in proportion only to the moral excellence of a man's
ancestors or of himself, nor to his bodily strengtii and
comeliness, but in proportion also to his wealth or
poverty, —so that by a rule of symmetrical inequality ^
they may receive offices and honours as equally as
possible, and may have no quarrelling. For these
reasons we must make four classes, graded by size of
property, and called first, second, third and fourth (or
by some other names), alike when the individuals re-
main in the same class and when, through a change
from poverty to wealth or iVom wealth to ]>overty,
they pass over each to that class to which he belongs.
The kind of law that I would enact as proper to
follow next after the foregoing would be this It is, as
:
we assert, necessary in a State which is to avoid that

greatest of plagues, which is better termed disrup-
tion than dissension,^ that none of its citizens should
^ i.e. of proportional distribution: cp. 757 A
fif. for
" political," as distinct from "arithmetical," equality.
* Or " class discord.
379
PLATO
irapd Tiai ttoXitcov
rcav /xrJT av trXovrov,
a)9 dfl(f)OT€p(OVTLKTOVTCdV TUVTU d/j,(f)6r€pa' vvv
O^V OpOV hel TOVTtOV €KaT€pOV TOP VOp,O0€TJ]V
<l>pd^€iv. earco Sr/ irevia^ fiev opo^ rj rov K\r)pov
E ri^rj, ov Set puevetv Kal op dp^cov ov8el<i ovhevi
TTore irepioyêrai, iXdrro) yiyvop-evov, t&v re
dWcov Kara ravrd ovBel^ octti^ <î\6Tifio<i eii
dperp. fiirpov Se avrov 9ep,€vo^ 6 vofio9eTq<i
SnrKdaiov idaei tovtov Krdcrdat koX TpnrXdatou
Koi fi^XP'' T€TpaTTXa(TL0V' rcXeiova 5' dv rt?
Krdrai rovrav evpoov rj SodevTcov iroOev rj XPV'
fiaTiadfievo^ rf Tivt TVXV TOiavTrj KTrjadfievos
745 dWj] rd TrepiytyvofMeva rov fiirpov, rrj iroXei dv
avrd Kal roi<; ttjv ttoXiv exovari 6eol, (f)avel fiev 6 ôvX6p,evo/3t9 tov KXijpov TrdvTcov
irdaa ev tS (pavepo) yeypdÔw irapd (fyvXaîv

dpxovaiv, ol? dv 6 vopLO^ TrpoaTd^rj, ottw? dv al
B BiKac rrepl ttuvtcov oaa ^ et? ^yO??yu.aTa pdBiai
re coari Kal cr(p68pa aaêl^.
To hr) fierd touto, irpoiTOV fiev rrjv iroXiv
ISpvadai Sec fidXiara ev pecrrp, Kal
t?}? ;;^<upa<? oti
rdXXa oaa Trp6a<f>opa iroXei t&v vjrapxovrwv
exovra tottov eKXe^dp,evov, d vorjaai re Kal elirelv
ovBev vaXeTTOt'' fierd 8e ravTa fxeprj ScoBcKa 8i-
eXia-Oai, de/xevov 'Ecrria? irpayTov Kal Ato? Kal
^XOrjvdf; lepov, dKponoXiv ovofidôvra, kvkXov
^ iffa Stephens, Schanz : itrai MSS.

380
LAWS, BOOK V
be in a condition of eitlier painful poverty or wealth,
since both these conditions produce botli these results;
consequently the lawgiver must now declare a limit
for both these conditions. The limit of poverty shall
be the value of the allotment this must remain fixed,
:
and its diminution in any particular instance no

magistrate should overlook, nor any other citizen
who aspires to goodness. And having set this as
the (inferior) limit, the lawgiver shall allow a man to
possess twice this amount, or three times, or four
times. Should anyone acquire more than this
whether by discover)' or gift or money-making, or
through gaining a sum exceeding the due measure
—
by some other such piece of luck, if he makes the
surplus over to the State and the gods who keep the
State,heshall be well-esteemed and free from penalty.
But if anyone disobeys this law, whoso wishes may
get half by laying information, and the man that is
convicted shall pay out an equal share of his own
property, and the half shall go to the gods. All the
property of every man over and above his allotment
shall be publicly written out and be in the keeping
of the magistrates appointed by law, so that legal
rights pertaining to all matters of property may be
easy to decide and perfectly clear.
In the next place, the lawgiver must first plant his
city as nearly as possible in the centre of the country,
choosing a spot which has all the other conveniences
also which a city requires, and which it is easy
enough to perceive and specify. After this, he
—
must divide off twelve portions of land, when he
has first set apart a sacred glebe for Hestia, Zeus
and Athene, to which he shall give the name
"acropolis" and circle it round with a ring- wall
38«
PLATO
C irepi^dWovra, d^' ov ra SwSeKa fiepr) rifjiveiv
TTjV re TToXiv avrrjv Kal Tracrav ttjv yoipav. taa
he hel lylyveadai ra 8(t)BeKa êprj tA to, fiev
ayaO)]<; 7/}? elvat a-fiiKpd, to, Se ')(êipovo<i fiei^co.
K\t]pov<i Se SieXecv TerrapaKovra koX irevTUKia-
')(^Lkiov^, TOVTWv re av hi')(a t€/ii€lv eKaarov Kal
^vyKXripwaai hvo Tfuj/iara, rov t £771)9 Kal tov

TToppco /jL€r€)(ovTa eKaarore'^ to 7rpo<; ttj ttoXci
fjLepo dir' eaxdrwv SevTcpq),

D Kal TaWa ovtw iravTa. /nij^^âvdadai Be Kal ev
Tol ^ Kal dpeTrj ^ el<i taa oti /xdXiaTa to.
BoiiBeKa /xepT} (rvvTa^d/ievov, d7roypa(f)f}<i TravTcov
ryevo/j.evrjf}' Kal Brj Kal to fiera tovto BcoBeKa
OeoL(i BcoBeKa KXrjpovi 6evTa<i eirovofidcrai Kal
KaOiepcacrai to Xaôi/ fiepa eKdaTw tw dew, Kal
E <f)vXr)v avTTjv eirovo/xdaaL' TefMveiv Be av Kal r-d
BcoBcKa TTj^ 7r6XeQ)<i Tfxrjfxara tov avrov rporrov
ovirep Kal ttjv dXXrjv 'X^copav Bievefiov Kal Bvo
ve/Meadat cKaaTOV olKr)aeL<i, T771/ re ijyv^ tov
fieaov Kal ttjv twv iax<^T^v- Kal ttjv fxev
KaTOLKiaiv ovto) TeXof exîv.
Ê^vvoelv Be rjixd^ to toiovS" earl xpecav eK
nravTO'i Tporrov, wf to, vvv elprffieva Trdvra ovk
av TTore eh Toiovrovi Kaipov'; ^vfiTreaoi, (oaTe
^ eKOLffTOTe Schanz kKirepov MSS.
:
* [els /cA.77pos]bracketed by Peipers, Schanz.

» <ir<p<> I add here (Schanz after x'^'p***)-
382
LAWS, BOOK V
starting from this he must divide up both the city
itself and the country into the twelve ])ortions.
all
The twelve portions must be equalised by making
those consisting of good land small, and those of
inferior land larger. He must mark off 5,040 allot-
ments, and each of these he must cut in two and join
two pieces to form each several allotment, so that
each contains a near piece and a distant piece, ^join- —
ing the piece next the city with the piece furthest off,
the second nearest with the second furthest, and so on
with all the rest.^ And in dealing with these separate
portions, they must employ the device we mentioned
a moment ago, about poor land and good, and secure
equality by making the assigned portions of larger
or smaller size. And he must divide the citizens
also into twelve parts, making all the twelve parts
as equal as possible in respect of the value of the
rest of their property, after a census has been made
of all. After this they must also appoint twelve
allotments for the twelve gods, and name and con-
secrate the portion allotted to each god, giving it
the name of " phyle." ^ And they must also divide
the twelve sections of the city in the same manner
as they divided the rest of the country and each ;
citizen must take as his share two dwellings, one

near the centre of the country the other near the out-
skirts. Thus the settlement shall be conipleted.
But we must by all means notice this, that all —
the arrangements now described will never be likely
to meet with such favourable conditions that the
1 Cp. 776 A. » i.e. "tribe."
* vejôt England : vflfiatrOai M SS.

• <i4(«'> I add.
^^3
PLATO
746 ^v^^rjvai Kara Xuyov ovto) ^Vfxiravra yevofiepa
avhpa^ re o'l firj hva'êpavoixrt, ttjv TOiavTTjv
^vvoiKiav, aW' vTrofievovai '^pijfMard re eôvre?
TUKTa KoX /xerpta 8ta ^lov TravTO? Kal iraihwv
y€vecrei<i a<; elpr]fcafj,ev iKd(noi<i, koI 'y^pvaov
<TTep6fi€voi KoX erepcov atv 8/}Xo9 6 vofiodeTr]<i
irpoard^fjov iarlv ex tovtcov tcov vvv elpi]fieva)v,
en he 'Xjciipa'i re koX d(neo<i, co? elprjKe, ev fieaw
Tivd<; ^ T6 Koi ev kvkXw olKrja-ei^, nrdvrr) (T')(ehov
olov oveipara Xeycov rj irXdrTOiv Kaddirep e/c
B Krjpov rivd ttoXiv koI iroX'na^. e^êt Brj ra
TOiavra ov KaKSi<; rivd rponov elprjp,epa, 'xprj S'
e7rava\ap/3dveiv Trpo? avTov rd roidSe. trdXiv
dpa Tj/jLLV 6 vofioOercov (ppdêi roSe' 'Kv TOVTOii\oi, fxrjS' avTov hoKelre fie
XeXtjOevai to vvv Xeyofievov, o)? dXtjdr] 8tef e/jêra/
Tiva TpoTTov dXXd yap ev eKdaToi^ tcov /xeXXov-
rcov eaeadai BiKaioTUTov dlfiai Tohe elvai, tov tc
rrapdSeLyfia BeiKvvvTa, olov Set to e-JTL'xeipo'up.evov
yiyveadai, fitjSev diroXeLTreiv tcov KaXXicrTwv tc
Kal dXrjdecrTdTCOv' w Be dBvvaTov re ^Vfiâtvei
C TOVTCOV ylyveadai, tovto /lev avTo eKKXivetv Kal
firj TrpdrTeiv, o tl Be tovtov tcov Xoittcov iyyvTard
eaTi Kal ^vyyevecrTaTOv e(f)v tcov irpocrrjKovTcov
irpdTTeiv, TOVT avro Biafiij^ctvaaOai oirco^ av
yiyvrjTat,' tov vo/jLoOeTTjv 3' eaaai reXoî eTridelvai
Tfi ôvXrjaei, yevofievov Be tovtov, tot i]Br) Koivfj
H€T eKeivov aKorrelv 6 tL re ^v/ji<f>epet tcov elpr}-
fiei'cov Kal tL 7rp6aavT€<; eiprjrat TJ79 vofiodecrca^'
to yap ofMoXoyov/xevov avTo avTco Bel ttov iravraxv
* if fifffcf Tiva.il ix«T6rifrii MSS., edd.

384
LAWS, BOOK V
whole programme can be carried out according to
plan. This requires that the citizens will raise no
objection to such a mode of living together,
and will tolerate being restricted for life to fixed
and limited amounts of property and to families
such as we have stated, and being deprived of gold
and of the other things which the lawgiver is clearly
obliged by our regulations to forbid, and will submit
also to the arrangements lie has defined for country
and city,with the dwellings set in the centre and
—
round the circumference, almost as if he were
telling nothing but dreams, or moulding, so to say,
a city and citizens out of wax. These criticisms
are not altogether unfair, and the lawgiver should
reconsider the points that follow. So he that is
legislating speaks to us again in this wise " Do :
not suppose, my friends, that I in these my dis-

courses fail to observe thetruth of what is now
set out in this criticism. But in dealing with all
schemes for the future, the fairest plan, I think, is
this —that the person who exhibits the pattern on
which the undertaking is to be modelled should
omit no detail of perfect beauty and truth but ;
where any of them is impossible of realisation, that

particular detail he should omit and leave un-
executed, but contrive to execute instead whatever
of the remaining details comes nearest to this and
is by nature most closely akin to the right procedure ;
and he should allow the lawgiver to express his
ideal completely and when this is done, then and
;
then only should they both consult together as to

how far their proposals are expedient and how much
of the legislation is impracticable. For the con-
structor of even the most trivial object, if he is to be
385
PLATO
aTrepydêaOat. kuI top tov (âvXoTdrov hrjjjbiovp'yov
D aîov eaofievov Xoyov.
Nvp 8t] tovt avTo 7rpodvjbLr]T€Ov ISelv [xera rrjv
Soâv T779 ScoBcKa fiepcov Biavofirj<;, to riva
TOi)V
rpoTTOv [SrjXov 8r] rd 8co8eKa fxeprj twv ivTo<i

avTOv e^pvra hiavojjidii] ^ kuI rd rovroi<i
7rA.eta'Ta9
^vveTrofiepa koI €k tovtcov yevvoofieva, fJ'ixP^
TO)v TCTTapd/covTa Te Kal TrevTaKia-xîXlcov odev
(f)paTpi,a<i Kal Brjp,ov^ koX Kcofias, kol 7rp6<i ye ra?
rrdXepLiKd^ rdêi^ re koX dywyd^, koX en vofxla-
p,aTa Kal fierpa ^rjpd re Kal vypd Kal aradpA'
E iravra ravra ep^p-erpd re Kal dXX.t]\oi'; (Tvp,(f)cova
Set rov ye vop,ov raTreiv. Trp6<; Be rovToi<; ovB'
eKelva (po^rjrea, BetaavTa rrjv Boâcrav dv
yiyveadai ap-iKpoXoyiav, dv tj,? TrpocrrdTT-r) iravra
OTTOcr' dv CKevT] KTOiVTai, p^rjBev dfierpov avrcbv
747 eav eivai, Ka) kolv5> Xoyw vopîaavra 7rp6<i irdvra
elvat XPV^^/ôvi ra? rcov dpidp,Siv Bi.avop,d^ Kal
7rocKtXa6i<i, oaa re avrol iv eavrol^ TroLKiWovTai
Kal oaa iv p,rJK€(Ti Kal iv ^dOeai iroiKiXpâTa, Kal
Br] Kal iv (f)d6yyoi^ Kal Kivâeai Tac<; re Kard Tr)v
evdvTToptav t^? dvco Kal Kara) (ôpd<i Kal rrj<i

kvkXw 'jTepi(f)opd<;' tt/so? ydp ravra iravra Bel
fiXeyjravTa tov ye vo/xodeTrjp wpoaTaTTeiv toI<{
TToXtrat? irdtriv et? Bvvap,iv TOVTOiv p,r} aTToXei-
B ireadat T7]<i avvTdê(o<i. irpof; Te ydp oiKOVop^tav
Kal 77/30? TToXtTelav Kal 7rpo9 Td<i re^va? Trdcra^
ev ovBev ovtco Bvvap^tv eêt TraiBeiov p.d6r]p,a
fieydXrjv, ft)9 rj Trepl T0v<i dpiOfj,ov<; BiaTpi^r]' to
Be jxeyiaTov, oti tov vvaTdôvTa Kal dp-aOr) (pvcrei
iyeipei Kal evpâdi) Kal jxvrjpôva Kal dy^lvovv
^ [SriXov . . . Stavonas] I bracket {Sif\eiv Sei Hermann).

386
LAWS, BOOK V
of any merit, must make it in all p>oints consistent
with itself."
So now we must endeavour to discern after we —
have decided on our division into twelve parts in —
what fashion the divisions that come next to these
and are the offspring of these, up to the ultimate
figure, 5,040, (determining as they do, the phratries
and demes ^ and villages, as well as the military
companies and platoons, and also the coinage-system,
—
dry and liquid measures, and weights), how, I say, all
these numerations are to be fixed by the law so as to
be of the right size and consistent one with another.*
Moreover, he should not hesitate, through fear of
what might appear to be peddling detail, to prescribe
that, of all the utensils which the citizens may possess,
none shall be allowed to be of undue size. He must
recognise it as a universal rule that the divisions
and variations of numbers are applicable to all
purposes — both to their own
arithmetical variations
and to the geometrical variations of surfaces and
solids, and also to those of sounds, and of motions,
whether in a straight line up and down or circular.^
The lawgiver must keep all these in view and
charge all the citizens to hold fast, so far as they
can, to this organised numerical system. For in
relation to economics, to jwlitics and to all the arts,
no single branch of educational science possesses so
great an influence as the study of numbers its chief
:
advantage is that it wakes up the man who is by

nature drowsy and slow of wit, and makes him quick
^ "Phratries" and "demes" were sub-divisions of the

•'phyle" or tribe.
* i.e. the laws of arithmetic apply also to plane and solid
geometry, acoustics, and kinetics.
387
PLATO
aTrepydêTai, irapa ttjv uutov (pvcrtv iirihthovTa
Oeia Te')(yr). ravra Srj iravra, iav fiev dWois
v6fiOLi'\,o)(^pr)p,aTiav ck ra>v -ylrv^wv
C Totv /neWoPTtov avrd lKavS)<i re koX ovqcrip.w;
KT-qaeadai, Ka\a rd TraiSevfiara Kal tt pocrijKOvra
ylyvoiT^ dv el Se firj, rrjv KoKovfiivrjv dv ri^
iravovpyiav dvTi ao<f)La^ dTrepyacrdpievoca<i Kal iroWd
erepa direipyaafxeva yevr) vvv ecrriv IBelv viro tj}?
Twv aXkwv i7nTr]8eup,dT(ov Kal KTrjfiaTayv dve-
\ev6epia^, eire rt? vofiodirr)<; avTot<; (f)avXo<i dv
yevofiepoq iêipydaaro rd TOiavra, etVe x^^^'^V
TVXV T^poaTreaovaa, etre Kal (f)V(n<; dX\7] rif
D TotavTT). Kal ydp, a) MeyiWe re Kal KXeipta,
firjSe rovO^ 'f)p,d€poi>r€<; dWfov
TOTTfov TO yevvdv dv0p(O7rov<; dfieivovj Kal
7rpo<i
)(eipov<;' 61^ ovk evavria vofxoOerrjreov. oi fiev
ye TTOV, Sid Trvev/xara iravrola Kal 8i' el\i](T€i, dva8i8ova-av ov fiovov rot? au)p,aaiv
dfieivo) Kal 'Xêipay, Tal<i 8e y^v')(al<i ov^ rjTrov
huvap,evr]v Trdvra ra Toiavra eniroielv, roincav 5'
av irdvrcov fieyicrTov Sia<f)€poiev dv tottol 'X^(opa<;,
ev ol^ deia rt<; eTTLTrvoia Kal Saifiovoyv X^êif elev,
Tou? del KaroiKcôfievov^ iXev(Tfi : OVK MSS. (bracketed by Ast, Schanz)
2 061 Ast : oh MSS.
1 Cp. Hep. 436 A.

388
LAWS, BOOK V
to learn, mindful and sharp-witted, progressing
beyond his natural capacity by art divine. All these
subjects of education will prove fair and fitting,
provided that you can remove illiberality and avarice,
by means of other laws and institutions, from the
souls of those who are to acquire them adequately
and to profit by them ; otherwise you will find that
you have unwittingly turned out a " sharper," as we
call him, instead of a sage examples of this we can
:
see to-day in the effect produced on the Egyptians

and Phoenicians^ and many other nations by the
illiberal character of their property, and their other
institutions, —whether these results are due to their
having had a bad lawgiver, or to some adverse
fortune that befell them, or else, possibly, to some
natural disadvantage. For that, too, is a point,
O Megillus and Clinias, which we must not fail to
notice, — that some districts are naturally superior to
others for the breeding of men of a good or bad
type ; and we must not conflict with this natural
difference in our legislation. Some districts are ill-
conditioned or well-conditioned owing to a variety
of winds or to sunshine, others owing to their waters,
others owing simply to the produce of the soil, which
offers produce either good or bad for their bodies,
and equally able to effect similar results in their
souls as well. Of all these, those districts would
be by far the best which have a kind of heavenly
breeze, and where the portions of land are under the
care of daemons,^ so that they receive those that come
from time to time to settle there either graciously
or ungraciously. These districts the judicious law-
giver will examine, so far as examination of such
• Cp. 1451) ad Jin.

389
PLATO
avOpwrrov olov t' €(tt\ crKoireiv
€maK€yfrd/jL€VO<;, o)?
TO, ToiavTa, ovTco ireipcpT av rcOevai rov'i v6fxov<;.
Brj Kal <Tol TTOirjTeov, S) KXetvca' irpSiTOV
rpeinkov iiri to, TOiavra fiiWovTi y€ KaroiKLêiv
Xc^pav-
, , , , ,
ifioi T6 ovrm TTOirjTeov.
390
LAWS, BOOK V
matters is possible for mere man and he will try
;
to frame his laws accordingly. And you too, Clinias,

must adopt the same course when you are pro-
;
posing to colonize the country, you must attend to

these matters first.
CLIN. Your discourse, Stranger, is most excellent,
and I must do as you advise.
391
751 A0. 'AXXa jxriv /neTci ye irdvTa ra vvv eiprjfieva
a')(eôv av dp^cov elev aoL Karaardaeit; t^ noXei.
KA. "^X^'' y^P ^^^ OUTG)?.
A0. Avo eiSt) ravra irepl TroXtreia? kogîov
yiyvofxeva Ti'7%ai'€i, irpcoTov fiev Karaa-rdaei'i
ap^MV re Kai dpôvTcov, ocra^ re avrdî elvat Set
Kal rpoTTov ovriva Ka0iaTa/xeva<i' eTreira ovtco
Bfj TOL"? v6fiov<; rai<; dpxcti'i eKaarai^ dirohoTeov,
B ov(nivd<i re av Kal 6aov<; /cal oiov^ TrpocrfJKOu

av €Kd<7Tai<; etrj. a/xiKpov Se iTria-xovTa tt/jo
T»}? alpea-eco^ eiirco/xev TrpoarJKOVTd Tiva \6yov
irepX avTri<i pTjdrjvai.
KA. Tiva Srj TOVTOV ;
A0. Tovhe. iravTi ttov hifKov to toioutov, oti

fieydXov tt}^ vop,o6eaia<i ovto^ epyov, tco ^ iroXiv
ev irapeaKevaarpevqv dp')(^d<i dveTmrjheiovi eVt-
arrjaai rol<{ ev K€ip,€voi<i v6p,oi^, ov fiovov ovhev
irXeov ev redevTwv, ovh^ on yiXco'i av 7rdp,TTo\v<{
C ^vp,âivoL, (TX^Bov Se ^Xdât Kal Xooâi ttoXv
p-eyiaTav ral<i iroXecn yiyvoivT av ef avrSiv.
KA. riw? yap ov ;
A0. Tovro Toivvv vo^crcofiev crot irepl tj}? vvv,
at îXe, TToXiTeiaf re Kal rroXedx; ^vfi^Saivov
opas' yap on Trpayrov p,ev hel rov<; 6pda)<; lovra^
eirl rd<i rS)v dpx^v 8vvdp,€(,<; fidaavov iKavrjv
avrov<; re Kal yevo<; eKdcrnov €k iraihoyv fiexpt
^ T^ Schramm, Schanz: rod MSS.
BOOK VI
ATH. Well then, after all that has now been
said, will next come, I suppose, to the task of
jou
appointing magistrates for your State.
CLIN. That is so.
ATH. In this there are two branches of civic
organisation involved, —
first, the appointment of
magistracies and magistrates, with the fixing of the
right number required and the proper method of
appointment ; and next the assignment to each
magistracy of such and so many laws as are in each
case appropriate.^ But before we make our selection,
let us pause for a moment, and make a statement
concerning it of a pertinent kind.
CLIN. What statement is that ?
ATH. It is this : —
It is a fact clear to everyone
that, the work of legislation being a great one, the
placing of unfit officers in charge of well-framed
laws in a well-equipped State not only robs those
laws of all their value and gives rise to widespread
ridicule, but is likely also to prove the most fertile
source of damage and danger in such States.
CLIN. Undoubtedly.
ATH. Let us then, my friend, mark this result in
dealing now with your polity and State. Vou see
that it is necessary, in the first place, that those who
rightly undertake official functions should in every
case have been fully tested —
both themselves and
their families —
from their earliest years up to the
» Cp. 735 A.
393
PLATO
T^? aipeaeo)^ elvai hehwKoraf;, eireira av tou?
fjiiWovra'i alp/jaeadai Tedpd<^6ai [re] ^ ev rjdeai
D vofMcop €v 7r€7rai8ev/x6Vov<; 7rp6<i to 8ua)(êpaivovrd<i
re Kal diroheyôixevovq 6p6co<i Kpiveiv kuI utto-
Kptvecv SvvaTov<i yiyvead at tov^ dîov; eKarepoiv.
ravra 8e ol vewcnl ^vv€Xt]Xv06t€<; ovt€<; re
aX.\i]X(ov dyvcoTd, ert 8* d'nai8evToi., Trw? av
TTore 8uvaivro dfie/xTTTcoii rada€i^ <jâ(Tlv'^ ^
ov iravv 8e')(,e<T0ai. Kal 8r] Kal crol tovto vvv

Kai ifJLOt TTOtr/Teov, iirei'TTep crv fiev 8r) rrjv ttoXiv
E vTTearr)^ ra> K.pjjrcov edvei TrpoOvfioyi; KarotKielv
8eKaT0<; avT6<i,â vvv, iyw S" av aol
<w? (f^'pfi
752 ûWrjyêadai Kara rrjv trapovaav ^/xtv to, vvv
p,vdo\.oyiav. ovkovv 8r) irov Xeycov ye av fxvOov
uKecpaXov ckwv KaraXirroifMi,' TrXavMjJbevo^ yap
av dirdvrr) TOiovTO<; oiv ap,opô<i âivono.
KA. "A/jtcrr' e'ipr]Ka<i, Si êve.
A0. Ov
fMovov ye, dXXd Kal 8pda(o Kara
8vvap.LV OVTQ)<i.
KA. Haw
pikv ovv TTOLwp.ev yirep Kal Xeyop,ev.
A©. Eicrrai ravr, av êo? ideXr) Kal yijpco^
iiriKpaTcopêv ro ye roaovrov.
B KA. 'A\X' €ik6<; ideXeiv.
A0. EiVo? yap ovv. kiropuevoi, 8e avrw Xd-
^(ofiev Kal r68e,
KA. To TTolov
^ [ts ] bracketed by Stallb. Hermann.
,
* <.(pa(rli'> added from Schol. on Crat. 421 D.
^ Literally, "a contest does not at all admit excuses";

i.e. once engaged in it, you cannot draw back.
394
LAWS, BOOK VI
time of their selection ; and, secondly, that those
who are to be the selectors should have been reared
in law-abiding habits, and be well trained for the
task of rightly rejecting or accepting those candidates
who deserve their approval or disapproval. Yet as
regards this point, can we suppose that men who
have but recently come together, with no know-
ledge of one another and with no training, could
ever possibly select their officials in a faultless
manner ?
ci.iN. It is practically impossible.
ATM. Yet, " with the hand on the plough," as they
say, "there is no looking back." ^ And so it must
be now with you and me for you, as you tell me,^
;
have given your pledge to the Cretan nation that

vou, with your nine colleagues, will devote yourstlf
to the founding of that State and I, for my part,
;
have promised to lend you aid in the course of our

present imaginative sketch. And indeed I should
be loth to leave our sketch headless ^ for it would ;
look entirely shapeless if it wandered about in that

guise.
CLIN. I heartily approve of what you say.
Stranger.
ATH. And what is more, I shall act as I say to
the best of my power.
CLIN. By all means let us do as we say.
ATH. It shall be done, if God will and if we can
thus far master our old age.
CLIN. Probably God will be willing.
ATH. Probably he will ; and with him as leader
let us observe this also
CLIN. What ?
* 702 B, a • Cp. Gorg. 505 D.
395
PLATO
A0. 'fi? dv8pelo)<{ /cal •7rapaK€Ki,v8vvev/jLip(i)<;
iv T6) VVV T) TToX-f? rjÛV CtTTal KaTMKlCr/jbiurf.
KA. Uepl tL ^XeTTcov kuI iroi yuaXiaTa avTO
6"pr]Ka<i anelpoi^ dvSpdac
'fl? €u/coX.G)9
vofjboOerovfiev, 07r&)9 SeôvTUi irore tov^ vvv re-
devra^ vofiov^. 8i)Xov Be to ye roaovrov, &
KXetvCa, TravTi aêhov Kol tm firj ttclvv ao(^&,
C TO p^rj pa8i(o<i ye avTOV^ p,rj8eva^ TrpoaBeêadat ^
KUT^ dp'^d'i, el 8e fieLveidv ^ tto)? roaovrov \p6vov,
e«i)9 ol y€vadp.evoi 7rat8e<i roiv vopcov koI ûvrpa-
<f)€VT€<; 'iKavoif; ^vvijdei^ re avrol<i yevopevot rS)v

dp')(aipe(Tt(ji)v rfi rroXei rrdar) Kotvayvrjcreiav yevo-
pAvov ye p,r)v ov Xeyopev, etrrep rivl rpoira) Kal
yiyvoiro 6p6Si<i, rroWrjv eycoye da-(f)d-
p.T])(âi'T)
Xeiav olfiai xal perd rov rore "rrapovra 'X^povov

dv yeveaQai rov p,€?vai rr}v iraiBayayyrjdelaav
ovro) rroXiv.
D KA. "E%6t yovv Xoyov.
A0. Î8(i)p,ev rolvvv tt/jo? rovro et irrj riva
TTopov iKavov TTopiôipev dv Kara rd8e. (pr)pX
yap, S) KXetvla, J^vcoctlov^ 'X^privai r&v dXXmv
8ia(f)ep6vro)<; aaâXearara Ka\ dpiara.
rd<i p,€v ovv dXXa<i kol ^pa^vTepov epyov, vop,o-
E (f)vXaKa<i 8' vpilv * irpoorovi aipeladai dvayKaio-
rarov drrda-r] aTTOvBrj.
^ vpoffSeêffdat Stephens trporrdeâcTOat MSS.

:
* fielyetav Madvig, Schanz : fiuvaiftev MSS.

LAWS, BOOK VI
ATH. How bold and adventurous is the fashion in
which we now have founded this State of ours.
shall
CLIN. What is now specially in your mind, and
what makes you say so ?
ATH. The fact that we are legislating for in-
experienced men ^nthout qualms or fears as to how
they will accept the laws we have now enacted.
Thus much at least is plain, Clinias, to almost ever>'-
—
one even to the meanest intelligence that they —
will not readily accept any of those laws at the
start but if those laws could remain unchanged
;
until those who have imbibed them in infancy,

and have been reared up in them and grown fully
used to them, have taken part in elections to office
in every department of State, then, when this —
has been effected (if any means or method can be
found to effect it rightly), we have, as I think, a
strong security that, after this transitional period
of disciplined adolescence, the State will remain firm.
CLIN. It is certainly reasonable to suppose so.
ATH. Let us then consider whether we might
succeed in providing an adequate means to this end
on the following lines. For I declare, Clinias, that
you Cnosians, above all other Cretans, not only
ought to deal in no perfunctory manner with the
soil which you are now settling, but ought also to
take the utmost care that the first officials are
appointed in the best and most secure way possible.
The selection of the rest of them will be a less
serious task but it is imperatively necessary for
;
you to choose your Law- wardens first with the utmost

care.
• 5' vfuv England : ay/iiv (or tiv rifuv) MSS. : S' tw rifuy Zar.
5'
hf^" Hermann.
VOL. I. n 397
PLATO
KA. Ttiâ ovv eVl tovtw iropov kuI \6yov
dv€Vpt(TKOfl€V ;
A0. TovSe. (PrifML, 0) TratSe? KpijTcov, y^prjvai

KvaxTiov^ 8ia to irpeaêveiv tmv ttoWmv iroXeoov
KOivfj fxera rS)v acptKopevcov et? t^v ^vvoLKrjaiv
TauTTjv i^ avroov re Kal eKeivwv alpelaOai rpid-
Kovra fxev Kal kind roix; 7rdvTa<;, evvea Be Kal
BcKa CK Tcop iiroiKrjCTovrwv,^ TOv<i Be dWou<; i^
753 avTT)^ KvaxTOv. tovtov^; 8' oi Kvcoaioi rrj iroXei
croi B6vT(ov, Kal avTov ere, ttoXIttjv elvai Tavrr)<;
Trj<i diroiKLa'i Kai eva Tbiv OKTWKaiBeKa, 7r€LaavTe<i
?; Tivi ^ ixerpia Bvvdfiei ficaadfievoi.

KA. Tt Bfjra ov Kal av re Kal 6 M.iyiWo'i, &
êve, €KOivo)vr]aar7]v i)plv Trj<; TroXtre/a? ;
A0. Meya fxev, o) KXeivia,

^povovcriv ai
Adrjvai, /xeya Be Kal rj 'S^TrdpTrj, koI fxaKpdv
dvoiKovaiv eKdrepai' aol Be Kara irdvTa ijx-
p,€Xw? fiev ovv
jei'oiT av eirieLKeaTara ck tcov vTrapôvrtov rjiuv
rd vvv, eipijadco' 7rpoe\06vro<; Be -^povov Kal fxeivd-
ar]<i T?}9 "rroXnela^ aipecn^ avTCov ecTTco roidBe Tt?"
Travra fiev kolvcovovvtcov T779 tmv dpôvrayv alpe-

aeco'i OTToaonrep av oirXa 'nriTLKd rj ireîKa Tid&v-
rai Kal TroXe/iiov KeKOivcovrjKcoaiv ev rat? a<êTepaiepeiv B' errl tov tov Oeov ^wfiov eKacrrov
€t9 TTivdKiov ypdyjfavra Tovvop,a mar pod ev Kal
<f)vXij<i Kal Brjfiov OTTodev dv Brj/moTeurjrac, trapey-
* iiroiKTiffSvTvy Stephens : iiroiK-qcravTwy MSS.

LAWS, BOOK VI
CLIN. What means can we find for this, or what
rule?
ATH. This : I assert, O
ye sons of Crete, that,
since the Cnosians take precedence over most of the
Cretan cities, they should combine with those who
have come into this community to select thirty-
seven persons in all from their own number and the
community —
nineteen from the latter body, and the
rest from Cnosus itself; and those men the Cnosians
should make over to your State, and they should
make you in person a citizen of this colony and one
—
of the eighteen using persuasion or, possibly, a
reasonable degree of compulsion.
CLIN. Why, jiray, have not you also. Stranger,
and Megillus lent us a hand in our constitution }
ATH. Athens is haughty, Clinias, and .Sparta also
is haughty, and both are far distant but for you :
this course is in all respects proper, as it is likewise

for the rest of the founders of the colony, to whom
also our recent remarks about you apply. Let us,
then, assume that this would be the most equitable
arrangement under the conditions at present exist-
ing. Later on, if the constitution still remains, the
selection of officials shall take place as follows : —
In the selection of officials all men shall take part
who carry arms, as horse-soldiers or foot-soldiers,
or who have served in war so far as their age
and ability allowed. They shall make the selection
in that shrine which the State shall deem the most
sacred and each man shall bring to the altar of the
;
god, written on a tablet, the name of his nominee,

with his father's name and that of his tribe and of
the deme he belongs to, and beside these he shall
'
§ Tivi Schanz : t) rij MSS.
399
PLATO
ypclffteiv Be Kal to aurov Kara ravra ovTcoai'p']Tai. fir) Kara vovv avTot 'ye'ypajjLfievov ave-

XovTa €i<;dyopav delvai /jlt) eXarrov TpiaKovTa
rj/jL€p6!)V' ra Se tmv TrivaKLcov KpiOevra iv TrpcaroL^
fiexpt Tpiafcoaccov helâi Tov<i dpxovTa^ ISetv
D ndarj rfj TroXec, rrjv Be iroXiv a}aavTQ}<; €k tovtcov
(pepecu irdXiv ov av eicaaTo<; ôvX-qrai, Tou<i Be
TO Bevrepov i^ aiirwv 7rpoKpi6ipTa<i eKarov Beiâi
TToXiv diraai. to Be Tplrov êpeTO) fiev ex toov
etcarov 6 ôvXrjdeU ov av ôvXijTai, Bid to/jllcov
Tropev6p.evo<i' eirTa Be Kal TpiaKOVTa, ol<; av irXel-

arat yivcovTai -îjcfyoi, KpivavTet dirocfyrjvdvTCOv
dp-)(0VTa<i.
E Tt'iê? ovv, Si KXeivia koX ^leyiXXe, irdvTa

rjfilv Tain iv rfj iroXei KaraaTijaovai tmv
dp')(oiV T€ Trepi Kal BoKLfiaatwv avrtav ; dpa
evvoovfiev a>9 ra'i'i irpcorov ovrco Karaêvyvv p,evat<i
TToXeaiv dvdjKrj fxev elvai Ttvwi, ocrive<; Be elev
dv irpo iracrcov tcov dp^cjv yeyovoTe^;ovk eariv
<^lBetv'^ ^ ; Bee firjv dfi(b<; ye tto)?, Kal Tavra ov
(l)avXov<i dXX OTi fidXicTTa aKpov^. dp'^r) yap
XeyeTat fiev TJ/xiav TravTo<i \ev raU 7Tapoi/jLLai<;] ^
epyov, Kal to ye KaX(o<; dpâaOai rrdvre^ eyKco-

/j,idô/j.ev eKdaTOTe' to S' eVrt re, o)? ifjLol (jiai-
verai, TrXeov rj to rjpLcrv, Kal ovBel<; avrb KaXw^

754 yevofievov AyKeKtujiiaKev iKava)^.
1 <lSe7v> I add (H. Richards adds dirflv).
* [ifrah irapoi/xiais] bracketed by Naber, England.
400
LAWS, BOOK VI
write also his own name in like manner. Any man
who chooses shail be permitted to remove any tablet
which seems to him to be improperly written, and
to place it in the market-place for not less than
thirty days. The officials shall publicly exhibit, for
all the State to see, those of the tablets that are
adjudged to come first, to the number of 300; and
all the citizens shall vote again in like manner, each
for whomsoever of these he wishes. Of these, the
officials shall again exhibit publicly the names of
those who are adjudged first, up to the number of
100. The third time, he that wishes shall vote for
whomsoever he wishes out of the hundred, passing
between slain victims ^ as he does so :then they
shall test the thirty-seven men who have secured
most votes, and declare them to be magistrates.
Who, then, are the men, O Clinias and Megillus,
who shall establish in our State all these regulations
concerning magisterial offices and tests We per-
.''
ceive (do we not.^) that for States that are thu?

getting into harness for the first time some such
persons there must necessarily be ; but who they
can be, before any officials exist, it is impossible to
see. Yet somehow or other they must be there
and men, too, of no mean quality, but of the highest
quality possible. For, as the saying goes, " well
begun is half done," ^ and every man alwavs com-
mends a good beginning but it is truly, as I think,
;
something more than the half, and no man has ever

yet commended as it deserves a beginning that is
well made.
* An ancient method of solemnly ratifying an agreement
cp. Genesis 15. 9 fif.

* Literally, " the beginning ia the half of every work."
401
PLATO
KA. ÔpOoTara \€yei<;.
Ae. M77 roivvv 'yiyvcocrKovre^ ye TrapMfiev avro
apprjTov, fiTjSev 8iaaa(f)r]aavTe<;rj/j.iv avTol^ riva
earai rpoirov, ovv ovSafico^; eviropSi

iyo) fikv
ttXijv ye ei'o? eiireiv irpo^ to wapov avayKuiov
Kcu ^v/j.(f>€povTOr)fu TavTT] rfj iroXei, fjv ocKLêiv /xeX-
\ofiev, OLOv irarepa koI [irjTepa ovk elvai ttXtjv
" TTjv KaroiKLôvaav avrrjv iroXiv, ovk ayvooiv
on TToWai roiv KaroiKiadeiawv 8id(f)opoi rat?
xaTOiKKrdaaif} 7roXXa/ct? eviai yeyova&i re koX
eaovrai. vvv p.7)v iv to) Trapovri, Kaddirep Tral<i,
€t KUL TTOTe fieXXei Bid(f)opo<i elvai rot? yevvrjaaacv,
ev ye rfj irapoiKTr] iraiheia^ cnropia arepyet re koX
arepyerat viro royv yevvqadvTwv, koX êvyatv del
TTpa Tovf [oiAcetoi'?] ^ dvayKaiovi fu,6vov<; evpicrKei
^Vfip,d')(ov<i' a 8r} vvv (jirjfil KvcocTLOit 8id ttjv
eirifieXeiav Trpo? Tr]v veav iroXiv koX rfj via 7r/309
C Kvcoaov vTrdpêiv eToifiwi yeyovora. Xeyco 8e
KaOdrrep elirov vvv Br'], St? yap to ye kuXov prjdev
ovhev ^Xdirrei, YLvwcriovi Seiv e7ri/jLeXr]drjvai irdv-
Tcov TovTcop Koivij, TrpoaeXofMevovi tcov eh Trjv
dnTOLKLav d(f>iKOfi€va)v tov^ irpecr^vTdrov'i tc koI
dpicrrov<iet9 Svvafitv eXofievov<i /jlt} eXarrov
eKarov dvSpcov kuI avrcov Kvcocrlcov earwcrav
eKUTOv erepot. tovtov^ he eXOovra^ ^rjpX Selv
^ [oiKfiovi] 1 bracket.
1 752 D.
402
LAWS, BOOK VI
CLIN. Very true.
ATH. Let us not then wittingly leave this first
step unmentioned, nor fail to make it quite clear to
ourselves how it is to be brought about. I, however,
am by no means fertile in resource, save for one
statement which, in view of the present situation,
it is both necessary and useful to make.
CLIN. What statement is that ?

ATH. I assert that the State for whose settlement
we are planning has nobody in the way of parents

except that State which is founding it, though I
am quite aware that many of the colony-States have
— —
been, and will be some of them often at feud ^\-ith
those which founded them. But now, on the present
occasion, just as a child in the present helplessness
of childhood — in spite of the likelihood of his being
at enmity with his parents at some future date —
loves his parents and is loved by them, and always
flies for help to his kindred and finds in them, and
them alone, his allies,— so now, as I assert, this
relationship exists ready-made for the Cnosians
towards the young State, owing to their care for
it, and for the young State towards the Cnosians.
I state once more, as I stated just now,^ —for there

is no harm in duplicating a good statement —that
the Cnosians must take a share in caring for all
these matters, choosing out not less than 100 men
of those who have come into the colony, the oldest
and best of them they are able to select; and of
the Cnosians themselves let there be another
hundred. This joint body^ must, I say, go to the
^ This body of 200 is to be appointed, as a temporary
expedient, to give the State a start by selecting its first

necessary officials.
403
PLATO
€19 Tfjv Katvrjv TToXcv (TvveinfieXridrjvai oircof ai
D re ap')(a\ KaTacnSiat Kara vojjLOVi Karaaraaai
re ÔKt,/xaaO(0(Ti,' yevofievcou 8e tovtwv rrjv fiev
K^vcoaov T0U9 KvaxTLOv^ OLKelv, rrju Se veav TTokiv
avTT)v avTTjv Treipdcrdat (TcoêiP re Koi evTVXêiv.
01 5e 8r) lyevofxevoi tmv eirra koX rptaKovra vvv
re Kol et? tov eireira ^vfiiravra ')(^p6vov iirl rolaSe
rjfuv yprjcrdwaav irpSyrov fiev (j)v\aKe<; earcoaav
T&v voficov, eireira tmv ypa/jLpaTcov wv av €Kaaro<;
airoypdyfrp toi? ap')(ôvat, to 7r\i}dov T6t-
rdpwv pvSiv, 6 8e ro Sevrepov rpiMv, 6 he rpiro*}
hvelv fivalv, /jbvd<; 8e 6 Terapro?. eav Si ri<;
erepov âivqTai ri irapa ra 'ye'^pap^pêva KCKTr)-
fi€Vo<;, 8r]p,6aiov fiev eaTut to toiovtov airav, Trpo^
TOVTQ) Se 8iKr]V vTrex^Tco tcS ôvXofievw p,€7ievai
firj KoX-rjv P'V^' eixovvfiov, aXA,' ala^pdv, eav
aKi<JKr)Tat, 8td to KepSo<i r&v voficov Kara^povcov.
aia'x^poKepheia'i ovv avrov ypaylrdfievo^ 6 ôvXtj-
Oel<; eTre^cTco r^ Slkt] ev auTot? rol^ vo/jLO(f)v\aîv'
iav 8' o êvycov 6(f)\r], roiv koivcov KTrj/naTcov p,r}
755 fiere-êTco, SiapofMr) 8e orav rjj noXei yiyvrjrai Tf?,
dfiocpo, êpicrdco S' et? ttjv dp-)(r)v
fiT) eXaTTov rj TrevT'^KOVTa yeyovoo^ eTwv e^rjKOV-

TovTr)<; 8e ei'e;^^6t9 Sexa fiovov ttp^êTO) eTrj, Kal
KUTO, TOVTOV TOV XoyOV, OTTG)?, CtV Tf? TtXcOV
1 See above, 752 E.
404
LAWS, BOOK VI
new State and arrange in common that the magistrates

be appointed according to the laws and be tested after
appointment. WTien this has been done, then the
Cnosians must dwell in Cnosus, and the young State
must endeavour by its o>\'n efforts to secure for itself
safety and success. As to the men who belong to the
thirty and seven ,^ both now and for all future time,
let us select them for the following purposes : First,
they shall act as Wardens of the laws, and secondly as
Keepers of the registers in which every man writes
out for the officials the amount of his property,
omitting four minae if he be of the highest property-
class, three if he be of the second class, two if he
be of the third, and one if he be of the fourth class.
And siiould anyone be proved to possess anything
else beyond what is registered, all such surplus shall
be confiscated and in addition he shall be liable to be
;
brought to trial by anyone who wishes to prosecute

— a trial neither noble nor fair of name, if he be
convicted of despising law because of lucre. So he
that wishes shall charge him with profiteering, and
prosecute him by law before the Law-wardens
themselves; and if the defendant be convicted, he
shall take no share of the public goods, and when-
ever the State makes a distribution, he shall go
portionless, save for his allotment, and he shall be
registered as a convicted criminal, where anyone who
chooses may read his sentence, as long as he lives,
A Law-warden shall hold office for no more than
twenty years, and he shall be voted into office when
he is not under fifty years of age. If he is elected at
the age of sixty, he shall hold office for ten years
only and by the same rule, the more he exceeds the
:
minimum age, the shorter shall be his term of office ;
405
PLATO
B virep/Sa^ €^8ofj,i]KOVTa ^rj, /jLrjKeri iv tovtoi^ toi<;
dp')ôv(TC rrjv rrfKiKavTqv dpxv^ «? ap^cov Sca-
VOr)07]TQ}.
Ta p,€v ovv irepl tcov vo/xo(f>v\dKci)v tuvtu

elprjcrOoi TrpoaTuyfiaTa rpla, irpolovrayp Se elf
TOVfiirpocrde to)v vofieov eKacnof irpoardêi rov-
TOt9 Tot? dvSpdaiv oivrtvcov avTov<; Sec tt/jo? rot?
vvv €lp7]fievoi<; TTpoa-eTrifieXelcrOar vvv 5' e^^?
dXkoiv dp^Siv alpea-eio^; irepi Xiyotfiev dv. hel
yap Bt) to, fierd ravra aTpaTTjyovf alpeladai,
C Ka\ TOVTOLvXdp)(ôv^ koI Toi>v Tre^cov <f)vXa)v
KOcrfiriTd<i rwv rdêcov, oh

dv etrj tovt
Trpiirov
avTO Toijvofia fidXicTTU, olov kul ol iroXXoX raî-
dpxovf avTovvol yevo-
fjLevol T€ iv Ttti? rjXiKiaL^ koI yiyvofxevoL eKdaroTe.
idv Se Tt<f dpa SoKrj rivl tcov /jlt) TrpoBe^Xrjfiivcov
D dfieiv(av elvai r&v irpo^XTjdevTcov riv6<i, eirovo-
fidcra^ dv6* otov ovriva vpo^dXXerat, tovt avTO
6fivv<i dvTiTTpoâXXeado) tov cTepov oTTOTepo^ S'
dv So^Tj BiaX€ipoTOvov/j,€vo<;, eU tijv aipecriv
iyKpivicrdoi. rpet? Be, oh dv rj TrXeicrTrj %ef/)o-
Tovia yiyvriTai, tovtov^ elvai aTpaTrjyoVi T€ kuI
iiTifjieXTjTd'i TCOV icaTa iroXefMov, SoKifiaaOevTcov
Kuddirep oi vop,o(f>vXaK€<;. Ta^cdpXov<i 8e avTolcrt

irpoâXXeadat, fiev tov<! alpeOevra^ <TTpaTr)yov<i
406
LAWS, BOOK VI
so that if he lives beyond the age of seventy, he
must no longer fancy that he can remain among these
officials holding an office of such high importance.
So, for the Law-wardens, let us state that these
three duties are imposed on them, and as we pro-
ceed wilh the laws, each fresh law will impose upon
these men whatever additional duties they ought to
be charged with beyond those now stated. And
now we may go on to describe the selection of the
other officials. Commanders must be selected next,
and as subordinates to them, for purposes of war,
hipparchs, phylarchs, and officers to marshal the
ranks of the foot-phylae, — to whom the name of
" taxiarchs," which is in fact the very name which
^
most men give to them, would be specially appropriate.

Of these, commanders shall be nominated by the
Law-wardens from among the members of our State
only and from those nominated tlie selection shall
;
be made by all who either are serving or have

served in war, according to their several ages. And
if anyone deems that someone of the men not
nominated is better than one of those nominated,
he shall state the name of his nominee and of the
man whom he is to replace, and, taking the oath
about the matter, he shall propose his substitute
and whichever of the two is decided on by vote
shall be included in the list for selection. And
the three men, who have been appointed by the
majority of votes to serve as commanders and con-
trollers of military affairs, shall be tested as were
the Law-wardens. The selected commanders shall
nominate for themselves taxiarchs, twelve for each
* i.e. "rank-leaders."
407
PLATO
E SoiSeKa eKaaTTi cpvXf] [raîap)(ôv]-^ tt)p 5' dvTi-
TTpoôXrjv elvai, KaOaTrep t5)V aT parrjycov iyl-
yvcTO, Trjv avrrjv koX Trepl rSiV raîapy^ôov koX T^f
imxîporoviav koX ttjv Kpiatv. rov he ^vWoyov
TOVTov ev tS> irapovTi, Trplv TrpvTdv€i<; re koI
ôv\r]v -ppijaOai, tov<; vofio<pv\aKa<i (TvWeâvTa<i
eh ')((opiov 60? lepoirarov re Koi iKavcoraTov
KaOicrat %&)/0t9 fêv tov<; OTrXtra?, %ft)/)t9 Se tov<;
tTTTrea?, rpiTov 5' e(p€î]^ rovroL<i irdv oaov
ifjLTToXefiLOV' ')(eipoTovovvru)V Be a-rpaTrjyov^ fiev
[kol i7nTdpxov<i] ^ TTcivra, raî,dp-)(ov<; 8e ol tj)v
756 da-nlha riOi/xevor ^v\dp-)(ôv^ he avTol avToi<; ^
irdv TO iTTTTiKov aipeCadco' -yjnXoJv he rj toôtcov rj
Tivo<i dWov rcov e/j,Tro\€/jLicov rjye/jLova^: ol a-rpa-
Trjyol eauTOi<; KaOicrrdpTcov. l'mrdp')(oyv hr) Kard-
(na(TL<i dv rjpuv en Xolttt] yiyvoiTO. tovtov<; ovi
TrpoâWecrOcov fiev oiirep koI rov<; trrpartly ov<i
TrpovjBdWovTO, rrjv Be aipecriv xal ttjv avrnrpo-
ôXrjv Tovrcov rr^v avrrjv y'lyveadai Kaddirep r)
IMP arparrjywv eyiyveTO, 'xêipoTOvei.TQ) Be to
B iTTTTCKOv avTOvf ivavTiov opdyvTwv TOiv Tre^cov, Bvo
Be ol<; dv TrXeicnrj '^êiporovia yiyvrirai, tovtov^
riysfiova^ elvai irdvTcov tcov linrevovTwv. ra? Be
dfM(pi(T^r)Ti]a€i<i TCOV xî'POTOVicbv p-e^pt Bvocv elvai'
TO Be TptTov edv dp,(f)icr^7)Tfj Tt<?, Bia'^rjîiêadai
TOVTOV^ olairep Trj^ pêtpoTovta? p,eTpov eKdaToi,^
eKacTTov rjv.
BouXr]v Be elvai fiev TpidKovTa BcoBeKdBa<;' eîj-

KOVTa Be Kal TpcaKoaioi yiyvoivTO dv irpeirovTe'i
^ [To|(apx<'»'] bracketed by F. H. Dale.

^ [(coi iTrirapxovs]bracketed by Stallb. Schanz.
,
408
LAWS, BOOK VI
tribe ; and here, in the case of the taxiarchs, just
as in the case of the commanders, there shall be a
right of counter-nomination, and a similar procedure
of voting and testing. For the present before that —
prj'taneis ^ and a Boule have been elected this —
assembly shall be convened by the Law-wardens,
and they shall seat it in the holiest and roomiest
place available, the hoplites on one side, the horse-
soldiers on another, and in the third place, next to
these, all who belong to the military forces. All
shall vote for the commanders, all who carry shields
for the taxiarchs; all the cavalry shall elect for
themselves phylarchs the commanders shall appoint
;
for themselves captains of skirmishers, archers, or

any other branch of service. The appointment ot
hipparchs we have still remaining. They shall be
nominated by the same persons who nominated the
commanders, and the mode of selection and counter-
nomination shall be the same in their case as in that
of the commanders
the cavalry shall vote for them
:
and the two who secure

in full sight of the infantry,
most votes shall be captains of all the cavalrymen.
No more than two challenges of votes shall be
allowed if anyone makes a third challenge, it shall
:
be decided by those who had charge of the count

on the occasion in question.
The Boule (or "Council") shall consist of thirty
—
dozen as the number 360 is well-adapted for the
* i.e. members of a "prytany," or twelfth part of the

Boule (or Council) : for the functions of these bodies, see
758 B ff.
• aiiTol airTo7s : ai tovtois MSS. : aurois Ast.
409
PLATO
C rat? 8iavofiai<;' fieprj Se Siav€(,fuivra<; rerrapa
[Kara ivevrjKovra rov dpiO/nov] ^ rovrwv, ef CKa-
arov T(bv Ti/j^yifidTcov (pepeiv ivevijKOVTU ôvXevrd<i-
irpoiTov fiev €k tcov peyiarcov rcp,ri/jLdTQ}v diTavTa<;
(f)€p€iv i^ dvdyK7j<;, tj ^r]p.iovcr6ai rov p,7] rrei-
Oopevov rfi ho^dar) ^rjpia' eTreiodv S' eVe;^â)<rt, rov-
Tou? pev KaraarjprjvaadaL, rfj 8e varepaia (f>epeiv
e/c roiv BevTepcov Tipripdrcov Kara ravra Kaddirep
TTJ irpoadev, rpnrj h gk TOiv TpiToyv Tip,7]pdT(i)i>

(f>ep€iv pep Tov ôv\6p,€vov, iirdvayKei; Se eivac
D Tot<? Tbiv rpicov Tipbrjpdrwv, to he rerapTov re Kal
(rpiKporarov iXevdepov dêlaOat t^? lî-jpia^ 09
av auTcbv prj ôvXrfTai <j>epeiv. TerdprT} 8e (f)epeiv
pei' eK rov Terdprov Kal apiKpordrov Tcpr]paTOepovra
^rjpiovaOai, rov pev ck rov hevrepov rpnrXaa-la
E tT;? irpcarrj'i ^rjpta^;, rov 5' eK rov irpcorov rerpa-
Trkaaia. irepirrrj he ripepa ra Karaarjpavdevra
ovopara eêveyxelv pev rov' eKdcrrcov ro)v riprj-
p,drQ)v, rov^ r)p,Laei<; rovrcov d'noK\rjp(i>aavra<i
hoKipdaai, rovTOV<; h' elvai rov ivtavrov ySou-
Xefra?.
'H pev peaov av eôt
aipeai<i ovrco ytyvopevT]
Kal hr)poKpariKfj<; 7ToXtreLa<;, 17? del
p,ovapxi'Kr](i
hei pâeveiv rrjv rroXireiav hovXoi yap av Kal
^ [Kara . . . apiB/xhi'] bracketed by England.
410
LAWS, BOOK VI
sub-divisions : they shall be divided into four groups
and 90 councillors shall be voted for from each of
the property -classes.^ First, for councillors from
the highest property-class all the citizens shall be
compelled to vote, and whoever disobeys shall be
fined with the fine decreed. When these have been
voted for, their names shall be recorded. On the
next day those from the second class shall be voted
for, the procedure being similar to that on the first
day. On the third day, for councillors from the
third class anyone who chooses shall vote and the ;
voting shall be compulsory for members of the first

three classes, but those of the fourth and lowest
class shall be let off the fine, in case any of them
do not wish to vote. On the fourth day, for those
from the fourth and lowest class all shall vote; and
if any member of the third or fourth class does not
wish to vote, he shall be let off the fine but any ;
member of the first or second class who fails to vote

shall be fined —
three times the amount of the first
fine in the case of a member of the second class,
and four times in the case of one of the first class.
On the fifth day the officials shall publish the names
recorded for all the citizens to see and for these ;
every man shall vote, or else be fined with the first

fine; and when they have selected 180 from each
of the classes, they shall choose out by lot one-half
of this number, and test them and these shall be
;
the Councillors for the year.

The selection of officials that is thus made will
form a mean between a monarchic constitution and
a democratic and midway between these our con-
;
stitution should always stand. For slaves will never

» Cp. At. Pol. 1266»14 fif.
411
PLATO
757 BeaTTorai ovk av irore <ykvoivTo îkoi, ovSe ev
taacf Tt/iat? Siayopevofxevoi (f)av\oi koI crirovhaloi.
T0Z9 "yap avi(Toii\oTr}Ta airepydê-
rai, fidXa fiev 6p6o)<i e'iprjrai koI e/j,fi€X(i)<i' ^rt?
5' icrri rrore la6Tr)<i r) tovto avro Svvufiivr], Sid
TO /XT] cr<f)6Bpa (ra<pr]<i elvai a<f)68pa r]/LLd<; Siara-
B pdriei. hvolv yap caoTrJTOiv ovaatv, oficovvfioiv
fjiiv, €py(p 8e ei9 TroWd o-xeBov ivavrlaiv, rrjv fxev
krepav ei? rd^ Tt/â? irdcra TroXt? iKavr] irap-
ayayeiv kuI Tra? vo/j,o0€ti]^, t)]v jxeTpto icn]v Kal
araOpLfp Kal dpiOpifo, KXjjpw direvOvvuiv eh ra?
Biavop,d<i avT7]V' rr]v Be dXrjdeardrrjv Kal dpi(TTi]v
iaoTTjTa ovKerc pdBiov iravrl IBelv. Ato? ydp Bt]
Kp'i(Ti<; ecrri, Kal rot? dvOpcoTToif; del apiKpd fiev
eirapKel, irdv Be ocrov dv eirapKear] iroXeaiv rj Kal

C lBioi)Tai<;, iravT dyaOd direpydêrac' rm fiev ydp
jxeiôvL ifkeiw, rat S' eXdrrovi afiiKporepa ve/iei,
fierpia BiBouaa 7rpo<f ttjv avroiv ^vaiv eKarepa,
Kal Br] Kal rt/xd^ pLeiôai p,ev tt/jo? dperrjv del
ixeiôvf}, r]7rov<i ^ Be TovvavTiov eôvcnv dpeTTj<;
re Kal iraiBe'ia^, to irperrov eKarepoi<i aTrovifiei
Kard \6yov. eart ydp Bt] ttov Kal to ttoXitikov
r]filv del TOVT avro to BiKaiov ov Kal vvv r]p,d<i
dpeyop.evov<i Bel Kal Trpo^ TavTi]v rrjV laorrjTa, co

^ ?irTovs: To?s MSS., edd. (Stephens and Sclianz mark a
lacuna after iraiSeias)
Cp. Gorg. 508 A, B Ar. Pol. 1301^ 29 ff. Kth.

1 ; 1131''27,
; K
IISS**30 ff. The "arithmetical" equality which merely
counts heads aod treats till alike is here contrasted with
412
LAWS, BOOK VI
be friends with masters, nor bad men with good, even
—
when they occupy equal positions for when equality
is given to unequal things, the resultant will be un-
equal, unless due measure is applied and it is

;
because of these two conditions that political organisa-

tions are filled with feuds. There is an old and
true saying that "equality produces amity," which is
right well and fitly spoken but what the equality is
;
which is capable of doing this is a very troublesome

question, since it is very far from being clear. For
there are two kinds of equality ^ which, though identi-
cal in name, are often almost opposites in their practical
results. The one of these any State or lawgiver
is competent to apply in the assignment of honours,
— namely, the equality determined by measure,

—
weight and number, by simply employing the lot to
iîve even results in the distributions ; but the truest
and best form of equality is not an easy thing for every-
one to discern. It is the judgment of Zeus, and
men it never assists save in small measure, but
in so far as it does assist either States or individuals,
it produces all things good ; for it dispenses more to
the greater and less to the smaller, giving due
measure to each according to nature and with re-
;
gard to honours also, by granting the greater to

those that are greater in goodness, and the less to
those of the opposite character in respect of goodness
and education, itassigns in proj)ortion what is fitting
to each. Indeed, it is precisely this which constitutes
for us " fKjlitical justice," which is the object we
must strive for, Clinias ; this equality is what we
that truer "proportional" equality which takes accouDt of
human inequality, and on which "distributive justice" (as
Aristotle terms it) is based : cp. also 744 C.
4'3
PLATO
KXeiVLa, diro/SXeTrouTat rrjv vvv <f>vofM€vrjv kutoi-
D kI^€iv TToXiv aXX.r]v re dv Trore rif oIkl^tj, 7rpo<;
ravTo TovTo aKoirovfievov -^peoov vofioOerelv, aW'
ou TTpo? 6\i'yov<; Tvpdvvov<i rj irpo'i eva tj /cat
KpaTO<i 8t]p,ov Ti, 7r/309 Be to hiKaiov del' tovto
S' earl to vvv Si] \eydev, to Kara (jivcriv taov
avLcroif €Kd(TTOTe SoOev. dvajKulov ye firjv Ka\
rovToi<i Trapcovv/nlotal irore irpocr^pfjaaaOai, ttoXiv
diraaav, el fieWec (TTdcrecov eavrfj p.r] irpoffKoi-
vcovijaeiv Kard tl fiepo^' to <ydp e7rieiK€<; Koi
E ^vyyv(op,ov rov reXeov Kal dKptôv<i irapd Slxrjv
TTjv opOrjv ecrri Traparedpavpevov, orav y'lyvrfraf
Bio Tft) toO kXrjpov law dvdyKr) Trpoay^prjaaadai
Bv(TKo\ia<; tmv ttoXXcHv evexa, Oeov Kal dyadrjv
rvxw *«* TOTe ev evxci^'i ^ttlkoXov p.evov Bt) ^^prjareov dvayKaio)^ p,ev rotv laorrjrotv
758 dp,(f)olv, o)? 8' OTf p,dXi(Tra err' oXiyiaroi^ t§
erepa, rfj rrj<i ruxv^ Beopevrj.
Tavra ovrw o) <îXoi, dvayKalov
Bid ravra,
rT)v pLeXXovaav crdoêaOai Bpdv rroXtv. eTreiBr]
Be vav'i re ev OaXdrrrj rrXeovaa <f)v\aKr]<; T)p,€pa<;
Becrai Kal vvKro<i ae'i, TroXt? Te dxravroit €v
KXvBayvi rcov dXXcov rroXewv Biayopêvrj Kal rravro-
Barrdlcnv emôvXal<i oiKel KivBvvevovaa aXia-
KeaOai, Bel Brj Bi r}p,epa<i re el<i vvKra Kal €K
vvKTO<i avvdrrreLV irpo^ •qp.epav dp^pvra^ dp)ôvai,
B (f)povpovvrd<; re (f)povpov(Ti BiaBe')(pp.evov<i del Kal
rrapaBtBovra^ p,i]Be7rore Xrjyecv. 7rX^(9o9 Be oi)
Bvvarov 6êco<; ovBerrore ouBev rovrcov rrpdrreiv,
dvayKaiov Be rov<; pev rroXXovs rfov ôvXevrcov
' auToTi H. Richards : airovs MSS.
414
LAWS, BOOK VI
must aim at, now that we are settling the State
that being planted. And whoever founds a State
is
elsewhere at any time must make this same object
—
the aim of his legislation, not the advantage of a
few tyrants, or of one, or of some form of democracy,
but justice always and this consists in what we
;
have just stated, namely, the natural equality given

on each occasion to things unequal. None the less,
it is necessary for every State at times to employ
even this equality in a modified degree, if it is to

avoid involving itself in intestine discord, in one
section or another, —
for the reasonable and consider-
ate, wherever employed, is an infringement of the
perfect and exact, as being contrary to strict justice ;
for the same reason it is necessary to make use also

of the equality of the lot, on account of the discontent
of the masses, and in doing so to pray, calling upon
God and Good Luck to guide for them the lot aright
towards the highest justice. Thus it is that necessity
compels us to employ both forms of equality but ;
that form, which needs good luck, we should employ

as seldom as possible.
The State which means to survive must necessarily
act thus, my we have stated.
friends, for the reasons
For just as a ship when sailing on the sea requires
continual watchfulness both by night and day, so
likewise a State, when it lives amidst the surge of
surrounding States and is in danger of being en-
trapped by all sorts of plots, requires to have officers
linked up with officers from day to night and from
night to day, and guardians succeeding guardians,
and being succeeded in turn, without a break. But
since a crowd of men is incapable of ever performing
any of these duties smartly, the bulk of the Councillors
415
PLATO
CTTtTO TrXelaTOi' rou ^povov idv tVt rot? avroiv
ISioiai fi€vovTa<; €vOr)/xov€ia-Oat to. Kara ra?
avrcov OLKrâei^, ro he hcoheKarov /jL€po<; avrwv eVt
ScoSeKa firjva<i v€t/xavra<; ev 60' evl Trapiêtv
avrou<; <^vkaKa<;, lovti re rivi irodev dXXoOev etre
C Kal i^ avT7J<; ri]<; 7r6\e&)9 eTol/j,co'; eirnvêlv, av
re ayyeWeiv ôvXyrai rtv idv r av rrwddveadai
ri rSiv o)v rrpo'i 'rr6Xei<i dXXa<i
irpoarjicei iroXei
diroKpLvearOai re xal
epcoryaacrav kripa<i diro-
heâadai ra? drroKpiaeL'i, Kal St) Kal rcov Kara
TToXiv eKdarore vewrepLcrp^Mv ePCKa -rravroSaTTcop
elioOorwv del yiyveaOai, ottco? av fxdXiara pev fj,i]
D ylyvcovrai, yevofxevutv he on rd'^îara aladop,evrjjp.evov t^? 7roXe&)9
Kvpiov Kal hiaXvueoiv rcov re Kara v6piov<; roiv re
iâL(f>vr}<; rrpocnnirrovaoiv rfj iroXei. ravra p,ev
ovv irdvra ro hcoheKarov dv pbepo>v
hel rd<i (f)vXaKd'i ravra^ ^vXdrreiv Kara iroXiv
rovro rb nopiov r-^? ôvXijî del.
Kai rd p,ev Kara rroXiv ovrco<; e^pvra p.erpico'i
E dv eh] hiarerayp.eva' t% he dXXr]^ ^(wpa? irdarj^
ri^ eTTipêXeia Kal ti? ra^t? ; ap' ovx rjviKa rrdaa
p,ev 7) TToXc^, avpLTTaaa he rj %<w/9a Kara hcahcKa
pêpt] rr]<; TroXeco^
hiavev€p,r]rai, avrrj<i ohcov Kal
Kal oiKohopLioiv Kal Xi/xevMV Kal dyopd<;
oiKrjO-ecov
Kal Kpijvcov Kal hrj Kal rep,ev(bv Kal lepwv Kal
rrdvrwv rcov roiovrrov eTTtpêXijrd^ hei rivaf
diroheheiypêvov; elvat ;
416
LAWS, BOOK VI
must necessarily be left to stay most of thel: time at
their private business, to attend to their domestic
affairs ; and we must assign a twelfth j)art of them
to each of the twelve months, to furnish guards in
rotation, so as promptly to meet any person coming
either from somewhere abroad or from their own
State, in case he desires to give information or to
make enquiries about some matter of international
importance ; and so as to make replies, and, when
the State has asked questions, to receive the replies ;
and above all, in view of the manifold innovations
that are wont to occur constantly in States, to pre-
vent if possible their occurrence, and in case they do
occur, to ensure that the State may perceive and
remedy the occurrence as quickly as possible. For
these reasons, this presidential section of the State
must always have the control of the summoning and
dissolving of assemblies, both the regular legal assem-
blies and those of an emergency character. Thus a
twelfth part of the Council will be the body that
manages all these matters, and each such part shall
rest in turn for eleven-twelfths of the year : in com-
mon with the rest of the officials, this twelfth section
of the Council must keep its watch in the State over
these matters continually.
This disposition of affairs in the city will prove a
reasonable arrangement. But what control are we
to have, and what system, for all the rest of the
country? Now that all the city and the whole
country have each been divided ap into twelve parts,
must not supervisors be appointed for the roads of
the city itself, the dwellings, buildings, harbours,
market, springs, and for the sacred glebes also and
the temples, and all such things?
417
PLATO
KA. n<w9 lya/a ov ;
759 A0. Aeyco/x€P Tot9 fêv lepol^ vecoKopov^ re

8t)
teal lepeaf kol iepeia<i lelv 'yiyveadai' ohoiv he koX

oIkoSo/jLimv ^Kol Koa-fjLov rov irepl ra TOiavra
avdp(t)TT(ov re, Xva firj aSiKaxri, Kal rwv ahXcav
ffrjpitov iv avTU) re rS) Trj<i TroXeto? irepiôXw Kal
TTpoaareitp, otto)? av ra irpoa-rjKovra TToKecrc
yi'yvTjrat, eXeadai Set rpia /xep dpôvrcov etSi],
irepl fiev ro vvv Srj Xex^^v darvv6/j,ov<i eVoi/o-
fidôvra, ro Be Trepl d<yopd<i Koa/xoi' dyopav6/xov<;,
iepoiv Be eicri irdrpiaL lepooarvvai
iepeat, ol^ p.ev
B Kol al<i, KLvelv el Be, olov ro irpiarov Karoi-
p,T)
Kiô/xevot^ eiVo? ylyveaOai Trepl rd roiavra, rf

firiBevl Tj riaiv 6Xiyoi "^^ Be KXrjpoord iv rai<; Karacrrdcrecri
ylyvecrdai,p.iyvvvra<i irpo^ îXiav dX\r]'Koc<i
Kal îrj Brjfxov iv eKaart) %&Jpa koI ttoXci,
Brjfxov
OTTco^ av fidXiara O/Movoeov ^ etij. rd fxev ovv rSyv
C lepewv ^ rut dew iTrirpeTrovra avrw ro Kexcipi'O'P'ûov
yiyveadat, KXrjpovv ovrco rjj Beta rv^D diroBi-
Bovra, BoKCfidêiv Be rov del Xay^dvovra irpcorov
fiev oXoKXrjpov Kal yvrjatov, eireira a>? on [idXiara
e/c Kadapevovacov olKrjcrecov, <^6vov Be dyvov Kal
irdvrtov roiv Trepl rd roiavra eh rd Oeia d/iiap-

ravofievcov avrov Kal Trarepa Kal firjrepa Kard
ravrd /8eySfft)/coTa9. e« AeX(f>a)v Be XPV v6p.ov<i
* [or?] ^Stj : oTr /i^ MSS. : 6\iyiffTots Stephens.

* dfiov6Q)v England : dfiovoZv MSS.
" Upeccv Stobaeus : iepuv MSS.
418
LAWS, BOOK VI
CLIN. Certainly.
ATH. Let us state, then, that for the temples there
must be temple-keepers and priests and priestesses
and for roads and buildings and the due ordering
thereof, and for men, and beasts too, to prevent
their doing wrong, and to secure that the order
proi)er to States is observed both within the city
bounds and in the suburbs, we must select three kinds
of officers: those who deal with the matters just
mentioned we shall call "city- stewards," and those
dealing with the ordering of the market, " market-
stewards." Priests of temples, or priestesses, who
hold hereditary priesthoods should not be disturbed
—
;
but if, as is likely to be the case in such matters

with a people who are being organised for the first
time,— few or none have them already established,
then we must establish priests and priestesses to be
temple-keepers for the gods. In establishing all
these offices, we must make the appointments partly
by election and partly by lot,^ mingling democratic
with non-democratic methods, to secure mutual
friendliness, in every rural and urban district, so
that all may be as unanimous as possible.^ As to the
priests, we shall entrust it to the god himself to
ensure his own good pleasure, by committing their
appointment to the divine chance of the lot but ;
each person who gains the lot we shall test, first, as

to whether he is sound and true-born, and secondly,
as to whether he comes from houses that are as pure
as possible, being himself clean from murder and all
such offences against religion, and of parents that
have lived by the same rule. They ought to bring
1 Cp. Ar. Pol. 130O 19 S.
• Cp. 738 DfF., 771 E £.
419
PLATO
TTGpi TU Oela irdvra Ko/ncaafievovii nai Kara-
<7T7]aavTa<i iir^ aurol'i i^7)yi]Ta^ rovroi^ )(^prj(Tdai.
D Kar iviavTov he elvat koI firj fxaKporepov rrjv
lepodcrvvrjv eKdarrjv, err) 8e /x^ kXarrov e^rjKovra
rjfilv etrj yeyovMi; 6 /meWcov kuO^ tepov<; vofji,ov<i
Trepl ra dela lKavoy<i d'yiaTevaeLV ravra Be Koi

irepl TMv lepeicbv ecrrft) to. v6fiifA,a, rov'i Be
i^rjyrjTU'i rpl<; (fiepeToxrav fiev at rerrape^ <^v\ai
TerTapa<i efcaa-rou i^ avrCov, Tpet^ Be ol? ap
TrXeiaTT) yevrjrai '\lrrj(l)o<; BoKLp^daavra^ evvea
ire/jLTreiv el<i AeX<f)OVi dveXelv e^ eKaarrj^; Tpid8o<i
E eva' rr)v BoKifxaaiav avrojv koi rov -x^povov
Be
rrjv elvat Kaddirep tmv lepewv.
rjXiKiav ovtoi
Be earcov e^rjyrjTal Bia îov rov Be ye Xnrovra
iTpoatpeicrOuxTav al rerrape^ (f)v\ai, bdev av
iKXcTrrj. Ta/J.iav
eicdaroi<; rot<i iepol<; Kal refxevcov Koi Kapiroyv
760 rovrwv koi fiicrdcocreoyv Kupiov<; alpelaOai fiev e/c
Tcov ixeyiaTcov Tifirj/idTcov rpel<i ei? ra fieyiara
lepd, Bvo S' 6t9 rh cr/JbiKporepa, Trpo? Be ra
€fjLfieXe(TTaTa eva' ttjv Be aXpeaiv tovtwv kuI Trjv
BoKLfxaaiav ylyveadai Kaddirep rj r&v arpaTTjyciyv
eyiyvero. Kal ra fiev av Trepl ra lepa ravra
yiyvecrOb).
\\.(f)povprjrov Be Br} p^rjBev eU Bvva/xiu eareo.
TToXeco? ovv al (ppovpal irepi ravrrj ytyve-
/xev
aOcoaav, arpar-qySiv e7np,eXov/j,ev(i)v Kal raîap^Mv
Kal iTT'irdpXfi'V Kal (^vXdpxutv Kal rrpvrdvewv Kal
B Br) Kal da-rvvo/jbcov Kal' dynpavoficov, oirorav
^ exponents of sacred law ; cp. 775 A, 828 B.

i.e. official
* The 12 tribes are divided into 3 groups of 4 each each :
group appoints 3, making 9 in all the other 3 required

:
420
LAWS, BOOK VI
from Delphi laws about all matters of religion, and

appoint interpreters ^ thereof, and make use of those
laws. Each priestly office should last for one year
ai\d no longer ; and the person who is to officiate in
sacred matters efficiently according to the laws of
religion should be not less than sixty years old and:
the same rules shall hold good also for priestesses.

For the interpreters the tribes shall vote four at a
time, by three votings, for four men, one from each
tribe ; ^ and when the three men for whom most votes
are cast have been tested, they shall send the other
nine to Delphi for the oracle to select one from each
triad; and the rules as to their age and testing shall
be the same as for the priests. These men shall
hold office for life as interpreters ; and when one
falls out, the four tribes ^ shall elect a substitute from
the tribe he belonged to. As treasurers to con-
trol the sacred funds in each of the temples, and
the sacred glebes, with their produce and their rents,
we mus" choose from the highest property-classes
three men for the largest temples, two for the
smaller, and one for the least extensive ; and the
method of selecting ;ind testing these shall be the
same as that adopted in the case of ihe commanders.
Such shall be the regulations concerning matters of
religion.
Nothing, so far as possible, shall be left un-
guarded. As regards the city, the task of guarding
shall be in charge of the commanders, taxiarchs,
hipparchs, phylarchs and prytaneis, and also of the
city-stewards and market-stewards, wherever we
to make up the full number (12) are selected by the Oracle

from the 9 candidates next on the list.
• i.e. the tribal group by which he was elected.
421
PLATO
alpedevre^ rj^xlv Karaartaai rtva lKav(i><i- ttjv Se
aWrjv -^(opav <f)vXdTT€iviraaav Kara rdSe.
owoeKa /u,ev i)ixlv
X^P^ rrdaa eh Svva/xiv laa
>;
/xopia vevifiyjrai, Se jxia tw ixopiw eKuaro)

(fyvXr)
eTTLKXiipwdelcra [/car' eviavrov] ^ Trapey^êTco Treme
olov dypovofiov; re koI (f>povpdpxov<i,^ tovtoi^ S'
eaTQ) KaraXeâaOat Tr]<; avTOiv (f>vXri<i eKdcnfo
C ScoSeKU [tmv irevTe] ^ eV rwv vicov, /xr) eXarrov 57
irevre koI etKoatv err} yeyovorwi, firj irXelov he i)

Tpid/covra. rovroi<i he hiaKXijpoyOijTo} rd fiopia
T?}? '^copa<i Kara firjva exaaTa eKdaTotf, oVo)? av
7ra<rr)<i tt)? ^j^copa? efiireLpoi re Koi emari'jp.ove'i
yiyvoyvrai irdvre^. hvo S" erij rrjiJ dp^rjv kuI rrjv
(f)povpav ylyveadai (bpovpol<i re koL dpyovcrtv.
OTTOXi 6 av ro irpoyrov A,aâ)0"f ra fieprj, lrov<; rrj<;
X,d}pa
hevrepat erei, iva eo? irXeiaroi rS)v (f)povpcov firj
fiovov epLTreipoi rr/? %(w/3a9 yiyvwvrai Kara fxiav
oypav rov eviavrov, Trpo<i rfj %c6pa he dpa Kal t%
a»/oa? exaarr]^ irept eKacrrov rov rorrov ro yiyvo-
fievov ft)9 TrXeiaroi Kara/xdOcoaiv, 01 rore r/yov-
fievoi irdXiv dcfyrjyeiadcoa-av eh rov evcovvp,ov del
E ix€ra/3dXXovre<; roirov, eo)? dv ro hevrepov hi-
eêXdwaiv ero<i. ra> rpirro he dXXov tottw eKaarw rrjv
1 [kot' eviavThv] bracketed by England.
* (ppovpdpxovt Enseb., Herm. (pvAapxous
: MSS.
422
LAWS, BOOK VI
have such officials properly selected and appointed.
All the rest of the country must be guarded in
the following manner we have marked out the
:
whole country as nearly as possible into twelve

equal portions to each portion one tribe shall be
:
assigned by lot, and it shall provide five men to

act as land-stewards and phrourarchs (" watch-cap-
tains"); it shall be the duty of each of the Five to
select twelve young men from his own tribe of an
age neither under 25 nor over 30. To these groups
of twelve the twelve portions of the country shall
be assigned, one to each in rotation for a month
at a time, so that all of them may gain experience
and knowledge of all parts of the country. The
period of office and of service for guards and officers
shall be two years. From the portion in which
they are stationed first by the lot they shall pass
on month by month to the next district, under the
leadership of the phrourarchs, in a direction from
left to right, —
and that will be from west to east.
When the first year is completed, in order that
as many as possible of the guards may not only
become familiar with the country in one season of
the year, but may also learn about what occurs in
each several district at different seasons, their
leaders shall lead them back again in the reverse
direction, constantly changing their district, until
they have completed their second year of service.
For the third year they must elect other land-
stewards and phrourarchs.
During their periods of residence in each district
' [tuv wfVTfl bracketed by F. H. Dale.
* [tovs . . . -rivovs] bracketed by England.
* [roiis . . . firiixf\rrTds] bracketed by Schanz.
423
PLATO
errifieXeiav eivai TOtdvSe rivd' vpcorov fjuev o7rco<;
€V€pK7)<; %c6pa 7rpo9 rovf iroXefiiov^ ore fjui\i<XTa
T)
earai, racppevovrd'i re oaa av tovtov Bip koI

airoaKUTTTOVTa^ koX ivoiKoSo/Mijfiaatv ^ et? Svva-
fiiv eipyovra^: roix; e-m'Xêipovvra^; oriovv rrjv
761 '^(opav Kol ra Kr/jfiara KUKOvpyeiv, ')(^pco/n€vov^
8 viro^vyioi^ kol rol>i oiKeraif; rot? ev rat tottw
eKaoTW Trpov oIkclcov epycov avrwv
apyiaii on fMaXicna eKXeyo/jLevovf. Svaâra Be
Bi) Trdvra iroieiv rol'i i-)(dpoi^, toU Be <pt,Xoi<;
OTi fxaXiara evâra dvOpu)7roi<; re Kal viro-
^vjLOi'i Kal ôaKTJ/xaatv, oBcov re iTTifieXov/xevovi,
OTTft)? ft)? Tj/iiepcoTaTai efcaarac 'yiyvcovTai, Kal t5>v
eK Ato9 vBdrcov, iva rr)v ^(^copav /xr) KaKovpyfj,

fidXXov 8' o)(f>eXf) peovra ex rcov vy^rfXSyv et?
B Ta<i ev Totf opeai vrtTra? ocrac KoiXai, rd'i eKpod<;
avTMV eipyopra^ olKoSo/xi]fiaaL re Kal ra^pev-
IxacTiv, OTTW? av rd Trapd tov Aio? vSara Kara-
Beôfievai Kal irivovtrai, rot? viroKdrcodev dypot<;
re Kal roTrotf; irdat vdfiara Kal Kpr]va<i iroiov-
aau, Kal rov<; av'^p,ripordrov<i rorrovi TroXvvBpov;
re Kal evvBpovi direpydâyvrar rd re Trrjyaia
vBara, idv re Tf9 irorafio^ idv re Kal Kprjvrj
jj, Kocr pL0vvrepa<;, et ri ttov dXao^ -q reixevo<i
rrepl ravra dveiuevov [jj],^ rd peufiara d<îevre<i
el<i avrd rd reav deSiv Upd Koaficocn. 7rama')(fj
^ Schneider : iv
ivotKo'ôfj.-i]fxcuTiv o'lKoSofiit/xaatv MSS.
*
[f,]
bracketed by Schanz.
424
LAWS, BOOK VI
their duties shall be as follows first, in order to
:
ensure that the country' shall be fenced as well as

possible against enemies, they shall make channels
wherever needed, and dig moats and build cross-
walls, so as to keep out to the best of their power
those who attempt in any way to damage the
country and its wealth and for these purposes
;
they shall make use of the beasts of burden and

the servants in each district, employing the former
and supervising the latter, and choosing always,
so far times when these people
as })Ossible, the
own business. In all respects
are free from their
they must make movement as difficult as {>ossible
for —
enemies, but for friends whether men, mules
or cattle —
as easy as {wssible, by attending to
the roads, that they all may become as level as
{)ossible, and to the rain-waters, that they may
benefit instead of injuring the country, as they
How down from the heights into all the hollow
vallevs in the mountains they shall dam the out-
:
flows of their flooded dales by means of walls and

channels, so that by storing up or absorbing the
rains from heaven, and by forming pools or springs in
all the low-lying fields and districts, they may
cause even the driest spots to be abundantly
supplied with good water. As to spring-waters,
be they streams or fountains, they shall beautify
and embellish them bv means of plantations and
buildings, and by connecting the pools by hewn
tunnels they shall make them all abundant, and
l»y using water-pipes they shall beautify at all
seasons of the year any sacred glebe or grove that
may be close at hand, by directing the streams
right into the temples of the gods. And every-
425
PLATO
Se ev Tol<i 70tovTot<i yvfjLvdcria 'x^prj KaraaKevdêiv
Tov<i veov<i avTOi<i re koI rot? yipova-i yepovrtKO.
Xovrpa [depfMo] ^ Trapeôvrwi, vkrjv iraparidevra^
D aurjv \_Kal ^tjpdv] ^ d<^dovov, iir 6vtja€i Kafxvov-
Twv re vocrot^ koX ttovoi^ rerpufieva yeQ)pyiKo2<;
acofiara Sexo/J'ivov'i evfievo)<i larpov Biîv fir)
Trdvv ao(pov êXriova (TV')(y(p.
TaOra fiev ovv kol to, roiavTa irdvra k6(t/jlo<; re
Kol axfjeXeia toi^ tottol^ ylyvoir av fMerd 7rai8id<;
ov8a/XT) d-^âplTOV aTTOvSt) Se irepl ravra rjSe earw.
Toi)^ i^rjKOVTa CKaarov^ rov avTuyv tottov (pvXdr-
reiv fir] fiovov iroXefiimv evexa dXXd koI tCov îXcov
(âaKovrwv elvai. yeiTovwv he /cal tmv dXXfov
E iroXtrSiv rjv dXXo<; dXXov dStKrj, SovXof r) iXevde-
po<;, SiKdôvraf Tq> dScKeiadai <f)dcrKOVTC, rd fiev
(TfitKpd avTOV^ rov^ frevre dpyôvra^, rd 8e fieiôva

fierd rcbv 8(oSeKa [rov<; eTrraKatSeKa] ^ SiKdêiv
fiexpt rpicov fivcov, oca av erepo'? kreptp eTTikaXfj.
hiKaarrjv he Kol dpôvra avvnevSwov obheva
hcxdêiv KoX dp-^êiv hel irXrjv rcov rb reXo^ emri-
Oevrcov olov âaiXecov. Koi hrj kuI rov<; dypovo-
fiovi T0UT0U9, idv v^pi^wai ri irepl toi)? o)V
762 eTTifieXovvrai, irpoardêi'i re Trpoardrrovret
dvicrov^ koI em')(êipovvre<i Xaft^dveiv re koI
(pepetv ro)v ev rai? yeapylat'i firj iretaavTef, koi
idv he')((ovrai ri KoXaKeia<; eveKa hiBovrcov rj [kuI
8iKa<;] * a8i/c&)9 Biaveficoai, ral<; fiev daireiai'^
vireiKovre'; oveihrj (fyepeaOcoaav ev rrdar) rfj ttoXci,
rcov he aXXcov dSiKrjfidrcov 6 rt av dSiKwai rov<;
1 [Oepfxa] bracketed by Naber, England.

* [kuI iTj/jav] I bracket.
^ [tous eirraKuiSiKa] bracketed by Hug, Schanz.
426
LAWS, BOOK VI
where in such spots the young men should erect
gymnasia both for themselves and for the old men
— providing warm baths for the old : they should
keep there a plentiful supply of dry wood, and
give a kindly welcome and a helping hand to sick
folk and to those whose bodies are worn with the
toils of husbandry —
a welcome far better than a
doctor who is none too skilful.
They shall carry on these, and all similar operations,
in the country districts, by way of ornament as well as
use, and to furnish recreation also of no ungraceful
kind. The serious duties in this department shall be
as follows: —
The Sixty must guard each their own dis-
trict, not only because of enemies, but in view also
of those who profess to be friends. And if one either
of the foreign neighbours or of the citizens injures
another citizen, be the culprit a slave or a freeman,
the judges for the complainant shall be the Five
officers themselves in petty cases, and the Five each
with their twelve subordinates in more serious cases,
where the damages claimed are up to three miiiae.
No judge or official should hold office without being
subject to an audit, excepting only those who, like
kings, form a court of final appeal. So too with
regard to these land-stewards if they: do any
violence to those whom they supervise, by imposing
unfair charges, or by trying to plunder some of their
farm-stores without their consent, or if they take a
gift intended as a bribe, or distribute goods unjustly
— for yielding to seduction they shall be branded
with disgrace throughout the whole State and in ;
respect of all other wrongs they have committed
* [kui 5i(fai] bracketed by England.
427
PLATO
£V TO) TOTTft), TMV flixpt fivd^ iv T0t9 Ka)fllfjTat<i KOI
yeLTOcriv virex^'T^^crav €K6vT€<i hiKaî, tmv Se /xei-
ôvMp eKOLCTTOTe dStKrj/jLaToyv rj koI twv eXaTTOvoiv,
B eav fir) ^deXwaiv v-rre'xeiv 'nia-revovT€<i rw fiedi-
(xraadai Kara firjva^; et? erepov aeX tottov êuyov-

T€<i uTTocpevêlaOai, tovtcov irepi Xajx^veiv fxev
iv Tai<; Koival^ SiKai; top dSiKOv/uievov, eav 8' eXr],
rrjv hnrXaaiav TTparTiaOo) rov viroêvyovra Kal
fxr) ideXyjcravra vTroaxelv eKovia Tifioiptav.
AiaiTaaOayv Be o'C re apxovre<i oi re dypovop.oc

ra Bvo eri) roiovBe riva rpoirov. rrpoirov fiev 8t)
C Ka6^ eKuarovi tow? tottou? elvai ^vaalria, iv ol?
Koivfj rr}v 8i,airav Troirjreov drraatv 6 Be drro-
<jvacnrr)ija<^ Kav rjvrivaovv -qfiepav rj vvKra diroKot-
/jLTjOeh /jlt) TMV dpypvTOiv ra^dvrcov rj 7rdcn]<; tivo<;
dvdjKiTi eTrnreaovar)^, idv drrocprjveocnv avrbv oi
Trevre Kal ypdiâvTepj]Ta)<;. r&v Be apxovrwv avrwv
edv Tt9 rt, Bpa roiovrov avr6<i, irrifieXelcrdai p,ev
rov roiovrov rravra^ rot"? e^rjKovra ^pecoi', o Be
aL(76opLevo<i re Kal rrvdopevo^ p,r} irreîcbv iv rot?
avroi<; ivexeadco vop,oi<{ Kal rrXeiovi, rwv vecov
^rjfiiovaOb}' rrepl ra? rwv vecov dpxd<i ^rip,Q}a6Q) ^
7rdaa<i. rovrmv Be ol vop,o(pvXaK€<; iiriaKOTroi
uKpiêlfi eartoaav, ottco^ rj purj ylyvTjrac rrjv dp^V^
r) yiyvop-eva rr)^ d^la<; BiKrjf; rvyxdvrj.
* vrifuoffBti) Schanz : riTifiaffOa) MSS.
428
LAWS, BOOK VI
ajraiiistpeople in the district, up to the value of one
mina, they shall voluntarily submit to trial before
the villagers and neighbours and should they on
;
any occasion, in respect of either a greater or lesser

—
wrong, refuse thus to submit, trusting that by their
moving on every month to a new district they will
—
escape trial, in such cases the injured party must
institute proceedings at the public courts^ and if he
win his suit, he shall exact the double penalty from
the defendant who has absconded and refused to
submit voluntarily to trial.
The mode of of the officers and land-stewards
life
during their two years of service shall be of the follow-
ing kind. First, in each of the districts there shall be
common meals, at which all shall mess together. If a
man absents himself by day, or by sleeping away at
night, without orders from the officers or some urgent
cause, and if the Five inform against him and post his
name up in the market-place as guilty of deserting his
watch, then he shall suffer degradation for being a
traitor to his public duty, and whoever meets him and
desires to punish him may give him a beating with
impunity. And if any one of the officers themselves
commits any such act, it will be proper for all the
Sixty to keep an eye on him and if any of them
;
notices or hears of such an act, but fails to prosecute,

he shall be held guilty under the same laws, and
shall be punished more severely than the young
men he shall be entirely disqualified from holding
;
posts of command over the young men. Over these

matters the Law-wardens shall exercise most careful
supervision, to prevent if possible their occurrence,
and, Avhere they do occur, to ensure that they
meet with the punishment they deserve.
VOL. I.
p 429
PLATO
E Aet 8t) TrdvT avhpa SiavoeiaOai irepl airavrayv
avdpuiTTwv &)? 6 fxri hovXevcra^ oi>3' av hecnroTT}^
yevoiTo aîo kuXco^ apâi, irpta-
rov fi€V TOt? vofioa, ft)9 ravTTjv To2<i deolq ovaav
BovXeCav, eireiT del rot? Trpea-^vrepois t€ koI evri-
fjLw^ ê^KOKocri rovî viov<i. fiera he ravra Trj<i Ka6'
rjp,epap BtaLrr)<; Set r?}? raireLvrjii koL dirvpov ^
'^/eyevjjievov elvai to, hvo cttj ravra top tcou
dypovofiMV yeyovora. eTreiBdv yap Br) xara-
763 Xeyoicriv oi BcoBeKU, ^vveXOovra /xerd tmv Trivre
/SovXeveadcoaav &>? olovirep oiKeTai ov-y eôvaiv
avTOLv
aXXoov yecapySiv re kol K(op,r)T(ov rot? eKelvcov eVt
TU 'iBia xpwovrai VTTTjperyj/xara BcaK6voi<i, dXXd
fxovov oaa eU rd Brj/xoaia- rd B' dXXa avrol 8i
avTcov BiavorjdrjTaxTav co<; îwaopevoi Blukovovv-
re? re koI BtaKovovfievot eavroc<i, Trpo? Be rovToi<;
irdaav rr)v )((opav Bieêpevvciifievoi depou<; Kal
B ;)(;«/ia)i/09 (tvv toI'; ottXoi^; (f)vXaKi]<; re /cal
yvcopLcrecof evexa TrdvTcov del rwv tottcov. kivBv-
vevei ydp ovBevbi; eXarrov fxdOrjfia elvat Bi dxpc-
l3eLa<; eiTLcrraaOat 7rdvTa<i rrjv avrcov ^(^(apav' ov
Br)
X^P^^ Kwriyeaia Kal rrjv dXXijv Oijpav ov^,
rjTTOv €7rtTJ]Beveiv Bel rov rj^covTa rj ri]v ;\âty06t rovro Trpocrayopevoov,
^ a-irvpov Apelt, England ; avSpov MSS.

LAWS, BOOK VI
Now it is needful that every man should hold the
view, regarding men in general, that the man who has
not been a servant will never become a praiseworthy
master, and that the right way to gain honour is
by serving honourably rather than by ruling honour-
—
ably doing service first to the laws, since this is
service to the gods, and, secondly, the young always
serving the elder folk and those who have lived
honourable lives. In the next place, he who is
made a land-steward must have partaken of the daily
rations, which are coarse and uncooked, during the
two years of service. For whenever the Twelve have
been chosen, being assembled together with the Five,
they shall resolve that, acting like servants, they
will keep no servants or slaves to wait on them-
selves, nor will they employ any attendants belong-
ing to the other farmers or villagers for their own
private needs, but only for public requirements
and in all other respects they shall determine to
live a self-supporting life, acting as their own
ministers and masters, and thoroughly exploring,
moreover, the whole country both by summer and
winter, under arms, for the purpose both of fencing
and of learning each several district. For that all
should have an accurate knowledge of their own
country is a branch of learning that is probably
second to none so the young men ought to practise
:
running with hounds and all other forms of hunting,

as much for this reason as for the general enjoyment
and benefit derived from such sports. With regard,
then, to this branch of service — both the men
themselves and their duties, whether we choose to
call them secret-service men or land stewards or by
—
any other name every single man who means to
431
I
PLATO
C Trpodv/jLWi TTa? avrjp el<{ hvvafxiv eTriTrjSeveTO), oaoi
fieWovai Tr)v avrcov ttoXiv i/cavw (Tcoêcv.
To Se fi€TCi rovro dp-xôvrcov aipecretof: ayopa-

I'Oficov Trepi koI dcrTvvo/xtov rjv tj/jlIv eirofievov.
eirotvTO S' av dypov6fioLv Kara to acnv KaX rStv €k t^? ^j^co/ja? Xe&)-
(popcov ei9 TTjv ttoXlv del Terafiivcov Kal tcov oIkoSo-
D fiiSiv, 'Iva Kara vofiov^ ylypcovTai Trdcrat, xal Brj
Kol T(ou vSarcov, oiroa av avTol^ irefiTrtoai Kal

irapahihoicnv ol <ppovpovvre€Xfj tijv ttoXiv. Set St) Kal
TovTOv<i Bvvarov<; re elvai Kal cr)(ôXdôvTa<i rfav
KOLvwv eiripieXeiadat' Sio irpoâXXeado) fiev 7ra9
dvr)p €K roiv peyiarayv TifiT)p,dTa)v darvvop-ov ov dv
ôvXrjrai, BiaxîporovrjOevreov Be Kal dcj)iKop.evcov
E If oh av rrXeia-Tai yiyvoavTat,, roix; rpeU diro-
et<?
KXrjpwadvTwv oI? rovroov iiripLeXe^' BoKtpâaOivTe^

Be dp'xpvrwv Kara Tov}9 rouroi? aipelaOai fiev e'/c tcoi.
S"
BevTepoyv Kal TrpcoTcov TiprjpaTcov Trevre, ra 3' dXXa

avTMV yiyveadat, rrjv aipeaiv KaOdrrrep rj tmv darv-
v6p,wv, BeKU eK r<av dXXwv ')(eLporovr]Oevra)v ^ roi)^
irevre diroKXrjpcocrai, Kal BoKipaadevra'i avrovt ap-

')(ôvrav : x«'P<Toiê/»'Tos MSS. (cp. England, who

brackets Scxa . . . w*o<pr)vcu)
432
LAWS, BOOK VI
guard his own State efficiently shall do his duty
zealously to the best of his power.
The next step in our choice of officials is to ap-
point market-stewards and city-stewards. After the
land-stewards (sixty in number) will come the three
city-stewards, who shall divide the twelve sections
of the city into three parts, and shall copy the
land stewards in having charge of the streets of the
city and of the various roads that run into the city
from the country, and of the buildings, to see that
all these conform to the requirements of the law
and they shall also have charge of all the water-
supplies conveyed and passed on to them by the
guards in good condition, to ensure that they shall
be both pure and plentiful as they pour into the
cisterns, and may thus both beautify and benefit
the city. Thus it is needful that these men also
should have both the ability and the leisure to
attend to public affairs. Therefore for the office
of city-steward every citizen shall nominate what-
ever person he chooses from the highest property-
class; and when these have been voted on, and
they have arrived at the six men for whom most
votes have been cast, then those whose duty it is
shall select the three by lot ; and after pwissing the
scrutiny, these men shall execute the office according
to the laws ordained for them.
Next to these they must elect five market-
stewards from the second and first property-
classes :in all other respects the mode of their
election shall be similar to that of the city-
stewards from the ten candidates chosen by voting
;
they shall select the five by lot, and after scrutiny

declare them appointed. All sliall vote for every
433
PLATO
764 Be fit) ^diXcov, iav elaayyeXOy tt/jo? roy? dp')(0VTa<;,
^rjfiiovado} irevjrjKOvra SpaXM'Citfi irpo'i tw kukos

elvai SoKCiv. trco 8' el'i eKKXrjcriav koI tov koivov
^vXXoyop 6 ôv\6fi€VO^, eTrdvayKe^ S' ecrro) to)
Twv BevTcpcov Kal Trpcorcov Ti/xTjfiaTcov, hena ^paX'
fjbal<i ^rffxiovfievqy iav fii] irapoiv eêrd^r^Tai rot?
^vX\,6yoi<;. rpirfp 8e TifMtjfiaTi Kal Terdprm fir)
€7rdvayK€<i, dXXa dîjfjLio^ dcfieia-Oo), iav fi^ ri

irapayyeiXcoaiv oi dpxovTevXdTT€ivKul lepoyv Kal Kpr)vo}v int/xeXeiaOac
To)v Kar dyopdv, 07r&)9 fnjBev dSiKjj fjt,r]8ei<i, tov
dBiKovvTa 8e KoXdêiv, TrXrjyal^ fiev Kal Sea/xoi'i
BovXov Kal îvov, idv S' i7ri')(,d>pt0'i ^v rt? irepl to,
TOiavTa aKoafifj, fiixP'' H-^^ eKUTov hparxp-^v
vofj,i<T/xaTo<i avTov<i elvai Kvplov<; SiaBiKdôvTa'i,
P'iXP'- ^^BiTrXaaiov tovtou KOivfj /xeTo, dcrTvvofMoov

C ^rjfiiovv 8tKdôvTa<; tw dStKovvTi. to, uvto. Be
Kal d(TTvv6fioi<; Icttg) ^rj/xtcofiaTd re Kat KoXa(rei f^^XP^ P'^^ fivdî avTOV^ ^rj-
fii,ovvTa<;, Trjv BiTrXaaiav Be fxeTO, dyopavoficov.

MovaiKrjq Be to pueTCL tovto Kal yvp,va(TTiKT)<;
upxovTu^ KadiGTaadai Trpeirov av eirj, Sittov<;

eKaTeptov, tovs fiev iraiBeia'i avTcov eveKa, tou? Be
dycDVKTTiKrjf;. •7rai,BeiaoiT7J<T€<ov re irepi koI olKi]ae(oV' dppevwv «al
434
LAWS, BOOK VI
official any man who refuses to do so, if reported
:
to the officials, shall be fined fifty drachmae, besides

being declared to be a bad citizen. Whoso wishes
shall attend the Ecclesia and the public assembly ;
and for members of the second and first property-
classes attendance shall be compulsory, anyone who
is found to be absent from the assemblies being fined
ten drachmae but for a member of the third or

;
fourth class it shall not be compulsory, and he shall

escape without a fine, unless the officials for some
urgent reason charge everyone to attend. The
market-stewards must see to it that the market is
conducted as appointed by law they must supervise
:
the temples and fountains in the market, to see that

no one does any damage ; in case anyone does
damage, if he be a slave or a stranger, they shall
punish him with stripes and bonds, while if a native
is guilty of such misconduct, they shall have power
up to a hundred drachmae of their

to inflict a fine
own motion, and to fine a wrongdoer up to twice
that amount, when acting in conjunction with
the city-stewards. Similarly, the city-stewards shall
have power of fining and punishing in their own
sphere, fining up to a mina of their own motion, and
up to twice that sum in conjunction with the market-
stewards.
It will be proper next to appoint officials for
—
music and gymnastics, two grades for each depart-
ment, the one for education, the other for managing
competitions. By education-officers the law means
supervisors of gymnasia and schools, both in respect
of their discipline and teaching and of the control
of the attendances and accommodation both for girls
and boys. By competition-officers it means umpires
435
PLATO
BrfKeiwv KopSiv, a<ya)vla<i Se ev re Tol<i <yvfj,viKol<; koI
irepl Tr]V fiovcrcKrjv adXodkra<i ad\TjTal<;, 8ittov<;
av TOUTOV^ [nepl fiovcnKrjv /xev krepov;, irepi
dycovlav 3' aWov^].^ dyavicTriKi]^ fiev ovv dv-
OpcoTTcov re /cal ittttcov rov<; avrov^, fjbovaiKrj<; Se
erepovi jxhv rovq irepl /xovatSlav re koI pufiririKriv,
E olov payp-wBcbv Kol KiOapoiScov koI av\y]ra>v xal
irdvrcov rwv roiovroov dOXoOira<; aiperov<; ^ irpeirov
av €17] yiyveadai, rwv he irepl x^pcphiav aXkov^.
rrpwrov Srj Trepl rrjv rcov ')(pp5)v TraiStdv TraiBcov re
Kal dppevcov ^ kuI OrjXeicov Kopav ev op'îjaeat xal
rfi rdêi rjj dirdcrr] yiyvo}ievy]v * /jbova-iKfj tou?
dpxovTa<; aipeladai ttou %p€ft)V iKavo<} 8e eh
dp-)((ov avroh,eXarrov rerrapdKOvra yeyovoD^
fir)
765 irwv. i/cavo<i Se Kal rrepX fiovaSiav el<;, fir) eXar-

rov Tj rpiuKovra yeyovoo^; erSiv, elcraywyev^ re elvai
Kal rol<i dfxiXXoyfievoi^ rrjv SiaKpiaiv iKavw^ dno-
Bi,Bov<i. rov Bt] 'xôpcov dpyovra Kal BiaOerrjpa
alpeladai ^pr) roiovhe riva rpoirov. oaoi fiev
(f)iXo^povM<; ecr'xrjKacn, Trepl rd roiavra, €t9 rov
^vX\oyov traxxav, eTTt^rjpioi idv firj looaf rovrov
he ol vojj,o(f)uXaK€<; Kpirai' roi<; 5' dXXoc;, idv p,^
ôuXtovrai, p,r]hev eirdvayKC^ earco. Kal rrjv
TrpoôXrjv hrj rov alpovp,evov €k rSiv ifnrecpcov
B TTOLrjreov, ev re rfj hoKip,aaLa Kar'qyoprjp.a ev rovr
earro) Kal dirrjyopyjpâ, r&v p.ev «t)9 aTreLpa o Xaywv,
roiv h' eo? e/nireipo^' o? 8' av el? e« Trpoxîporovrf-
devrcov hexa ^dxj] hoKip,acr6el<; rov eviavrov royv
')(ppo)V dp'êrco Kara vopov. Kara ravrd he rovroi^
1 [iTfpl . . . &\\ovs'\ bracketed by England.
' atperovs : krepovs MSS., edJ. (bracketed by Stallb.)
^ i.^l)4v<cv : av^pSiv MSS., edd.
436
LAWS, BOOK VI
for the competitors both in gymnastic and in music,
these also being of two grades. For competitions
there should be the same umpires both for men
and for horses but in the case of music it will
;
be proper to have separate umpires for solos and

for mimetic performances, \ mean, for instance,
one set chosen for rhapsodists, harpers, flute-players,
and all such musicians, and another set for choral
performers. We
ought to choose first the officials
for the playful exercise of choirs of children and
lads and girls in dances and all other regular
methods of music and for these one officer suffices,
;
and he must be not under forty years of age. And

for solo performances one umpire, of not less than
thirty years, is sufficient, to act as introducer ^ and
to pass an adequate judgment upon the competitors.
The officer and manager of the choirs they must
appoint in some such way as the following. All those
who are devoted to these subjects shall attend the
assembly, and if they refuse to attend they shall be
liable to a fine —
a matter which the Law-wardens shall
decide any others who are unwilling to attend shall
:
be subj ect to no compulsion. Every elector must make

his nomination from the list of those who are
experts in the scrutiny, affirmation and negation
:
shall be confined to one point only on the one side, —

that the candidate is expert, on the other side, that
he is not expert ; and whichever of the ten who
come first on votes is elected after the scrutiny shall
be the officer for the year in charge of the choirs
according to law. In the same way as these thev
* i.e. to take entries and assign places to the competitors.
* yiyi'ofji.fVTiy England : yiyyofievjj MSS.

437
PLATO
KUi TavTT) Xa'âtv tov eviavrov €K€cvov tcov a(f>iKO-
fievcov elf Kpicrtv fiovathioyvreKal avvav\ioivap')(eroo,
C [et? Tou? fcpiTa<i airoBiSov^: 6 Xaêbi' t^j^ Kpiaiv]?-
fiera 8e ravra %pe(wi' ayoiviaf ddXo6iTa<i aipeZ-
crdai T^? irept ra yvfjLvdaia iTnrayv re kuI dvOpconcov
€K TOiv TpiTcov T6 KahcTi Toiv BeuTepcov TifiTj/xdrcov.
et<? 8e rrjv aipeaiv earco fiev i7rdvayK€<i rot? Tpicrl
TTopeveaOai Tifirj/jbaa-i, to a puKporarov he d^rjfitov

d(f)eL(r6oi. rpelî 5' eaTtoaav ol \a')(ôvre<i, rSiv
TrpoxeipoTOVTjdevTcov fikv eiKocri, Xaxovrcov he ix
t5)v ecKocTL Tpiojv, Of? av icaX yjrfjcfjo^ tj tcov Sokl-
D fiatovTwv SoKt/jbdarj. iav Be rt? aTroSo/ec/xacrdjj
KuO' 7)vrivaovv dpxv'^ Xrjîv kuI Kpiaiv, a\\ov<i
dvuaipelaOai Kara tuvto, koI rrjv BoKifiacriav
Q)(TavT(o<; avTOiv nrepi TroielaOat.
AoiTTO^ Be dp')(^ciiv irepl rd Trpoeiprjfiiva tj/jlIv
o T^<? TratSeia? e7rip€Xr}rr)<; 7rdat]<i OrjXeioov re
Kai appevwv. el? fiev Bfj Kal 6 tovtcov ap^wv
earcD Kara vofiov^, ctcov fiev yeyovco^ /xrj eXar-
TOV T] 7revT7]KOvra, waiBoyv Be yvrja-icov traTrjp,
fidXicTTa fiev vlecov Kal OvyaTepwv, ei Be fjurj,
E Odrepa' Biavoijd qrco Be avro'; re 6 irpoKpideit
xat, TTpOKpivtov 6}<i ovaav ravTtjv rrjV dp^rjp
r(t)v ev rfi iroXet aKpordraiv apêov ttoXv fieyiarriv.
iravTO'i yap Br) cf)VTOv r} irpooTr] ^Xdarrj KoXoj'i

opfirjdelaa irpo'i dperrjv rrjî avrov (pvaecof Kvptco-
TaTt) T€XoVTc!)v Kat TWV ^(ocov rip,epoiv Kal dypicov [Kal
766 dvOpooTTcov^.^ dvOpcoTTO'; Be, W9 (pa/xev, 7]/jL€pov,
ofiM^ p,y]v iraLBeia^ fiev 6p9r]va-e<i}<s
'
^ [*iy . . . *fpi(r 11'] bracketed by Wagner, Scban^.
' [kuI ivOpwirwv] 'jracketed by England.
438
LAWS, BOOK VI
shall appoint the officer elected to preside for the
year over those who enter for competitions in solos
and joint performances on the Hute. Next it is
proper to choose umpires for the athletic contests
of horses and men from among the third and the
second property-classes this election it shall be
:
compulsory for the first three classes to attend, but

the lowest class shall be exempt from fines for non-
attendance. Three shall be appointed twenty :
having been first selected by show of hand, three

out of the twenty shall be chosen by lot and they ;
shall be subject also to the approval of the scrutineers.

Should any candidate be disqualified in any voting
or testing for office, they shall elect a substitute, and
carry out the scrutiny by the same method as in the
case of the original candidate.
In the department we have been dealing with,
we have still to appoint an officer who shall
preside over the whole range of education of
both boys and girls. For this purpose there
shall be one officer legally appointed he shall
:
not be under fifty years of age, and shall be the

father of legitimate children of either sex, or
preferably of both sexes. Both the candidate that
is put first, and the elector who puts him first, must
be convinced that of the highest offices of State

this is by far the most important. For in the case
—
of every creature plant or animal, tame ^ and wild
alike —it is the first shoot, if it sprouts out well, that
is most effective in bringing to its proper develop-
ment the essential excellence of the creature in

question. Man, as we affirm, is a tame creature :
none the less, while he is wont to become an animal

^ i.e. "domesticated '
animals, and "garden' plants.
439
PLATO
evTvxov<; OeioTurov rj/xepcoraTov re ^wov ytyvetrOai
<f)i\€i, fjLT) lKavoi<i he rj fir) /caX&i? rpa(f)€v aypicora-
rov OTToaa (f)V€i yrj. wv ^v€fca ov hevrepov ov8e
rrrapepyov 8el rT}v TralBcov Tpn(f)/jv rov vofiodirrjv
eav ytyveadai,, TrpSirov 8e apâcrdai, ^yoeojv tov
fiiWovra avTcov eTripeXijaeadai «aXw? alpedrjvai,
TOiv iv Tj] TToXei 09 av apicno<i eh irdvja y, tovtov
B Kara Svvap,iv on fidXccTTa avToiv ovrLV* av exaaTOf
rjyrjrat koXXigt dv rwv Trepl TraiSeiav dpât
yevofievwv a> 5' dv irXelarai -yfrrjcfjot ^v/x^6)(TI,
SoKijjiaaOel^ vtto tcov dXXcov dp')^6vT0)V rwv eXo-
fievcov, ttXtjv vo/jiO(f>vXdK(ov, dpyk^w err] irevTe,
eKTO) Se Kara ravrd dXXov etrl ravrrjv ttjv dp^rjv
C aipelcrdai.
'Eav Se Tf9 STjfioavav dpx<^v dnToOavr) nrplv
dp-^^r^v
i^rjKeiv avTO) rrjv dp-^^rfvnXeiov rj rpidKOVTa iiri-
heopevrjv rj/iep(av, tov avTov Tpoirov eVt ttjv dp^rjv
aXXov KadiaTdvuL ot9 rjv tovto TrpoarjuovTco^ peXov.
Kal idv 6p(f)av(ov e7rtT/307ro9 TeXevrrja-p Tt9, 01
7rpoar]KovTe<i Kal i7riBr]fiovvTe<i 7r/j09 7raT/jo9 Kal
firjTpo^ p^XP'' dve-y\nS)v TralScov dXXov Kadia-rdvroDv
ivTo<{ 8eKa r/fiepcbv, rj îjpcovadwv CKaaTO^ Spaxpjj
D Trj'i rjp.epa'i, pixptTrep dv toi<; iraial KaTaa-rrja-coai
TOV eTrCrpoTTOV.
Tldcra Se hrjirov 7roXt9 diroXi'i dv yiyvono iv
f)
SiKacTTTjpia p,r} KaOecTTCOTa etrj Kara Tpoirov
d(f>eovo'i 8' a7> BiKaaTT)<i y/ilv Kal pr} TrXeia t&v
440
LAWS, BOOK VI
most godlike and tame when he happens to jwssess
a happy nature combined with right education, if his
training be deficient or bad, he turns out the wildest
of all earth's creatures. Wherefore the lawgiver
must not permit them to treat the education
of children as a matter of secondary or casual
importance but, inasmuch as the presiding official
;
must be well selected, he must begin first by

charging them to appoint as president, to the best of
their power, that one of the citizens who is in every
way the most excellent. Therefore all the officials —
excepting the Council and the prytaneis shall go to —
the temple of Apollo, and shall each cast his vote for
whichever one of the Law-wardens he deems likely
best to control educational affairs. He who gains
most votes, after passing a scrutiny held by the
selecting officials, other than the Law-wardens, shall
hold office for five years in the sixth year they
:
shall elect another man for this office in a similar

manner.
If anyone holding a public office dies more than
thirty days before his office terminates, those whose
proper duty it is must appoint a substitute in the same
manner. If a guardian of orphans dies, the relations,
who are residents, on both the father's and mother's
side, as far as cousin's children, shall appoint a
substitute within ten days, failing which they shall
each be fined one drachma per diem until they have
appointed the guardian for the children.
A State, indeed, would be no State if it had no
law-courts properly established but a judge who was
;
dumb and who said as little as litigants at a pre-

* rpoiTTaTreiv MSS. : xpoffriTiiy koI Zur., vulg.
PLATO
dvTi8iKO)i> ev ralî civaKpicreai (Ôe'yyoixevo^, kuO-
dtrep ev rait ovk dv Trore iKavo^
8iaiTai<;,
yivoiTO Trepi rrjv tco/' Si/caicov Kplaiv cov evexa
ovTe TToWovs 6vra<i paSiov ev SiKciêiv ovTe
oXtyovî (fiuvXov^. aa(f)e<i 8e del to dp<f)ia^r)Tov-
E fievov xpeoov yvyveadai Trap eKaripcov, 6 8e )(^p6vo<;
dp,a Kal TO 0paSv to re TroWaKa dvaKpivecv
7rpo<; TO (f)av6pdv yiyveaOai ttjv dp.(f)ca^r]TT]a-iv
^vfKpopov d)v irpcoTOV fxlv el<; yeLTOvwi
eve/ca
levai XPV iiTLKaXovvTa^ dWi]XoL<; Kal ToviXov<: Te Kal ^vveihoTaî otl fidXiaTa Td<i
767 dfj.(f)i(T^r)TOvp,eva'i vpdêi'i' edv 8' dpa fir) ev
T0VT0i<i Ti<i iKavTjv Kplaiv Xa/jL0dvr}, tt/jo? dXXo
8iKacrTrjpiov ltco' to 8e Tp'tTov, dv to, 8vo
8iKaa'T7]pia fMrj 8vv7)Tai 8iaXXdâi, TeXa eirt-
OeToy T?} 8iKrj.
TpoTTOV 8r] TLva Kal TOiv 8iKacrTr}p[(ov ai
KUTaaTda-ec; dpyôvTwv eicrlv atpecrei^' irdvTa
fiev yap dpyovTa dvayKalov Kal 8iKa(rTT)v
elvai Tivcov, 8iKacrT7]'i 8e ovk dp^cov /cat Tiva
TpoTTov dp-)((ov ov Trdvv (f)avXo<i yiyveTai ttjv toB'
ijpepav jiTTep dv Kplviov ti]V 8'LKrjv diroTeXfj.
B devTd Kal T0U9 8iKaaTd<i w? dp'ôvTa<i Xeyoi/xev
8tj
TLva dv elev TrpeirovTe^ Kal Tivoiv dpa 8iKa(TTal

Kal iroaoi i(p^ cKaaTOV.
ÂvayKaioTaTov^ p,ev toLvvv eaTco 8iKacrTj]-.
pLOv oirep dv avTol eavToi^ dTro(pi]vQ)atv eKaaTOi,
Koivfj Tivd<i €X6p,evor 8vo 87] twv Xocttcov ecrTO)
KpiTijpia, TO fiev OTttv Tt9 Tiva l8id)Tr]v l8ici)Tr)<i,
eTraiTi(i)fievo<i d8iK€tv avTov, dy<ov ei? 8i,Kr)v
ôvXrjTac 8iaKpidfjvai, to S' oiroTav to 8r)p6<Tcov

* a,vayicai6TaTot': KuîiiraTo*' MSS. (ri ir/JtiTo*' Susemihl)
442
LAWS, BOOK VI
liminary intûiry,^ as do arbitrators,^ would never
prove efficient in deciding questions of justice; con-
sequently it is not easy for a large or for a small
body of men to judge well, if they are of poor
ability. The matter in dispute on either side must
always be made clear, and for elucidating the point
at issue, lapse of time, deliberation and frequent
questionings are of advantage. Therefore those
who challenge each other must go first to the
.
neighbours and friends who know most about the

actions in dispute if a man fails to get an adequate
:
decision from them, he shall repair to another court

and if these two courts are unable to settle the
matter, the third court shall put an end to the case.
In a sense we may say that the establishment of
law-courts coincides with the election of officials for ;
every official must be also a judge of certain matters,

while a judge, even if not an official, may be said to
be an official of no little importance on the day when
he concludes a suit by pronouncing his judgment.
Assuming then that the judges are officials, let us
declare who will make suitable judges, and of what
matters, and how many shall deal with each case.
The most elementary form of court is that
which the two parties arrange themselves,
for
choosing judges by mutual agreement; of the rest,
there shall be two forms of trial, —
the one when a
private person accuses a private person of injuring
him and desires to gain a verdict by bringing him to
trial, and the other when a person believes that the
* i.e. an inquiry into the grounds of a proposed action at

law, to decide whether or not it should be brought into
court.
• i.e. persons appointed to settle points in dispute, so aa
to avoid a legal trial in the regular courts.

443
PLATO
VTTO TIVO^ TMV 7ro\lTQ)V r'jjrJTai, Tt9 d8lKei(T0ai
C Kal ÔvXrjSfl TO) KOLVrZ fÔTjOeZv. XeXTCOV 8*
OTToloi T elal Kal rive<; ol Kptrai. Trpayrov Br)

htKaarrjpiov rj/jLiv yiyveado) koivov airaat Tot9
TO rpiTOV a/j.(f)t(T^T]TOvacv IBicoTaif 7rpo<; aWrj-
Xou?, yevofxevov r^Se ttj;. Trdaaî 8tj ra? dpYoa,
' ' >»* \'\f> ^ ,
OTToaai re kut eviavrov Kai oTroaat TrXeLfo ypovov
' ,
ap'xôucrcv, eTrecoav jMeWr) veo<i eviavro'i fiera

Oepivas TpoTrd<i tw emovrt, /jltjvI yiyveaOai, rav-
T?79 Tr)<i r)/jL6pa<i rfj irpoaOev 7rdvra<; xph 'tov<;
dp-)(ovra(; avveXdelv etV ev lepov koX tov 6eov
D 6fji6(TavTa rov emovra eviavrov (paLvrjrai
BiaKpiveiv. rovrcov Be alpedevrwv yoyveaOat fiev
BoKLfxaaiav ev rot? eXofievoi^ avrol<i' edv Be drro-
BoKifxaadfi ri<;, erepov dvOaipeladat, Kara rdurd.
roi)^ Be BoKifiacrdevra^; BiKdteiv fiev roi^ raXXa
SiKacrrijpia (pvyovai, rrjv Be \jr7](f)ov (f}avepdv
E (f)€peiv. eirriKoovi S' elvai, Kal 9eard<; rovrcov rcov
Blkcov e'f dvdyKr]<; /nev ôvXevrd^ Kal rov<i dWov^;
dpôvra^ rov'i ekop-evovq avrov^, rwv Be dXXwv rov
ôvXofievov. edv Be Tt? eirairidrai rtva eKovra
dBiKco^ Kplvac rrjv Blktjv, eh rov<; vop,o^vXaKa ^Xa(f)devri ro
BinrXda-Lov ^ riveiv, edv Be fxeiôvo^ d^to<; elvai
Bo^rj ^rifj.i,a<i, irpoarifidv rov^ Kpivavra^ rrjv BIkijv
1 Strkiicnoy Ritter, England .•

ftfuav MSS.
444
LAWS, BOOK VI
State isbeing injured by one of the citizens and
desires succour the common weal.
to Who and
what sort the judges are must now be explained.
First, we must have a court common to all private
persons who are having their third ^ dispute with
one another. It shall be formed in this way. On
the day preceding the commencement of a new year
of office — which commences with the month next after
—
the summer solstice all the officials, whether hold-
ing office for one year only or longer, shall assemble
in the same temple and, after adjuring the god, they
shall dedicate, so to say, one judge from each body
of officials, namely, that member of each body whom
they deem the best man and the most likely to decide
the suits for his fellow-citizens during the ensuing year
in the best and holiest way. These being chosen,
they shall undergo a scrutiny before those who have
chosen them and should any be disqualified, they
;
shall choose a substitute in like manner. Those

who pass the scrutiny shall act as judges for those
who have escaped the other courts, and they shall
cast their votes openly. The Councillors, and all the
other officials, who have elected them, shall be
obliged to attend these trials, both to hear and to
see ; and anyone else that wishes may attend. Any-
one who accuses a judge of deliberately giving an
unjust judgment shall go to the Law- wardens and
lay his charge before them :ajudge that is convicted
on such a charge shall submit to pay double the
amount of the damage done to the injured party ;
and if he be held to deserve a greater penalty, the
judges of the case shall estimate what additional
^ Apparently, this refers to Uie third court (of appeal)
mentioned above, 767 A2£
445
PLATO
8 Ti 'x^pTj irpo'i TovTUi iraOelv avrov fj airorivuv
TcS Koivu) Kul TO)T7]v 8lkt]v SiKaaafiivo). Trepl
8e rSiv BTjfioaicov iyKXrjfidrcDv dvajxalov irpwrov
768 jxev T(p irXrjOet, fierahihovai rrj^ Kpiaeoi<i' ol 'yap
d8tKou/x€vot 7ra^T69 elaiv, oTTorav ri<; rrjv iroKiv
dBiKT}, Kal âXeTTCo? av iv h'lKr) (pipoiev a/xoipoi
yiyvofievoc roiv toiovtcop BiaKpia-ecov, dp^rjv dW
T€ elvai XPh '^V^ TOiavry]<; SLKr]<; koI reXevTrjv
€49 TOP Srjfjbov diToBiBofievTjp, ttjv Se ^dcravov iv
rai^; fxeyia-raii; dp'xal'i rptalv, a? dv 6 re (f>evyQ)v
Kol 6 SiMKcov ^vvofjLoXoyrJTOP' idv Be fit) hvprjaOop
Koipcoprjaai T?}<f 6/j,o\oyLa<; avrol, rrjv /3ov\r}p
B iTTiKpipeip avTOiP rrjp aipeaiP exaTepov. Bet Be
Bt) Kal roiv IBicov Bikwp Koipcopeiv kuto. Bvpa/j-ip
diravra^' 6 <ydp dKoipcoPTjTO^ wp eôvaLa<; rov

avvBiKaêiP •qyelraL to Trapdirap rrj<i TroXew^ ov
/i€T0^09 elpai. Bid ravT ovp Brj xat, Kara <f)v\a<;
dvayKoiov BiicaaTrjpid re yiypeaOai Kal KXrjpw
BiKa(TTd<; eK rov irapaxprjâ dBLa^66pov<i ralf
Ber'jaeaiBiKaêiv to Be TeX.09 Kpiveiv iravrav twv
TOiovTwv eKelpo to BLKacrTrjpiop 6 <âixev ei? ye
dpdpcoTTiPrip BvpafjLip o)? oloi' Te dBiaipdopcDraTa
C irapea-Kevdadai roh firj Bvpafxepoiî pL-qre ep toU
yeiroai. fjirjre ep T0t9 <f>v\eTiKoc<i BiKa<TTi]pLOi<i
dTTaXXaTTeadat.
Nvp Bt] rrepl fiev BiKaarijpia tj/mIp, d Bt] cfja/Jêp
ovd' ct)9 dp')(^d<; OV0' (U9 fir) paBtov eliTovra ap-
a/j.(f)i(T/3r}Ti}TQ)<i elptjKepai, Trepl [lep rain a oiop
Treptypaipij Ti<i e^codev Trepcyeypa/xfiepr) rd fxev
^ The whole of this account (766 E-768 C) of courts and

judges is confused and confusing. It would seem that 2
446
LAWS, BOOK VI
punishment must be inflicted, or what payment made
to the State and to tlie jêrson who took j)roceedings.
In the matter of offences against the State it is
necessary, first of all, that a share in the trial should
be given to the jKjpulace, for when a wrong is done
to the State, it is the whole of the people that are
wronged, and they would justly be vexed if they had
no share in such trials so, while it is right that both
;
the beginning and the ending of such a suit should

be assigned to the people, the examination shall
take place before three of the highest officials
mutually agreed upon by both defendant and
plaintiff: should they be unable by themselves to
reach an agreement, the Council must revise the
choice of each of them. In private suits also, so far
as possible, all the citizens must have a share ; for
the man that has no share in helping to judge
imagines that he has no part or lot in the State at
all. Therefore there must also be courts for each
tribe, and judges appointed by lot and to meet the
sudden occasion must judge the cases, unbiassed by
appeals but the final verdict in all such cases must
;
rest with that court which we declare to be organised

in the most incorruptible way that is humanly
possible, specially for the benefit of those who have
failed to obtain a settlement of their case either
before the neighl)ours or in the tribal courts.^
Thus as concerns the law-courts— which, as we say,
cannot easily be called either " offices " or " non-
offices " —
without ambiguity this outline sketch
serves to describe them in part, though there is a
classes of suits are indicated, public and private, and 3 kinds

ot courts, viz. (1) local courts (composed of neighboars),
(2) tribal courts, ^3) courts of appeaL
447
PLATO
eiprjKC, ra 8' airoXeiirei ayêhov Trpo'i yap reXei
vo/JLoOeaia^ i) Sikmv dKpi/3r). rav-
D TULi; pev ovv elprjcrdo) Trpo? ra reXei Trepipbiveiv
^P'df, at Se Trepl ra^ dWa^ apâ<i KaraardaeL<i

(TêSov ri]v 7r\eL<TTr]v €lXi](j)aai vop,oOe<TLav. to
Be oXov Koi dKpiê<i irepl ivof re koI irdvTcov tcov
Kara ttoXlv koL TroXirtKrjv irdaav hioiKriaiv ^ ovk
eari yeveadai cracf)e^, irplv dv rj BieôBo^ dir'
dpxv'i Td re Bevrepa koI rd pecra Kal rrdvra
peprj rd eavrrj^; drroXaôvaa vryoo? reXo<i d(pLKr)rai.
E vvv p,7]v iv r(p irapovri p.ey^pi rr\<i roiv dpôvrcov
aip€aeco<i 'yevop.evT]^; reXevrjj p.ev roiv epLirpoaOev
avrrj jLyvoir av iKavrj, vo/jloov Be Oeaeco^ ('PXV
Kai dva/3oX(ov apLa Kal okvwv ouhev en 8eop,evr].
KA. Ildvr(o<; poi Kara vovv, S) êve, rd epLtrpocr-
Oev elprjK(ji}<;, rrjv <''PXV^ ^^^ reXevr-^ 7rpo(Tdylra<;
Trept, rSiV re elprjpevcov Kal rwv p,eXX6vra)v
p7)6i)<readai, ravra en pbdXXov eKeivcov etprjKa^
<j)iXi(o<;.
T69 Ae. KaXco'i rolvvv av 7)p,lv rj tt pea ^vto)v
epb^poiv TratSid pê^pi' Bevp etr) rd vvv Biaire-

iraiapbev)).
KA. KaA.J/t' rrjv arrovdijv eoiKa<i SjjXouv roiv
dvBpoov.
A0. Et«09 ye. rohe h evvoi'iaco/xev, el aol
SoKec Kaddirep epoL
KA. To Tcolov 87}; Kal Trepl rivwv ;
A0. OlaO^ on
KaOdirep ^(oypddxi^v ovBev 7repa<;
eêLV Tj IT pay p,areia hoKel Trepl eKaarcov rSiV
^ \y6tjioov'\ bracketed by Bekker.
* ikolKT)(nv Ast, Schanz ttoiidiafwv MSS.
:
448
LAWS, BOOK VI
good deal it omits ; forlegislation and
detailed
definition concerning suits would most properly be
placed at the conclusion of the legislative code.^ So
let these matters be directed to wait for us at the
conclusion and I should say that the other official
;
posts have had most of the legislation they require

for their establishment. But a full and precise
account concerning each and all of the State depart-
ments and the whole of the civic organisation it is
impossible to give clearly until our review has
embraced every section of its subject, from the first
to the very last, in proper order. So now, at the
point where we stand —
when our exposition has
reached so far as to include the election of the
officials— we may find a fit place to terminate our
previous subject, and to commence the subject of
legislation, which no longer needs any postponements
or delays.
CLIN. The previous subject, Stranger, you have
treated to our entire satisfaction but we welcome
;
still more heartily the way you have linked up your
past statements with your future statements the —

end with the beginning.
ATH. It seems, then, that up to now our ancients*
game of reason ^ has been finely played.
CLIN. You are showing, I think, how fine is the
serious work of our citizens.
ATH. Very probably but let us see whether you
:
agree with me about another point.

cuN. What is it, and whom does it concern ?
ATH. You know how, for instance, the painter's
art in depicting each several subject seems never to
» Cp 853 AfiF.,956Bff.
' i.e. tiie "game" of legislation, cp. 685 A, 712 B.
449
PLATO
B ^comv,d\X* rj rov ypaiveiv rj d'7ro')(palv€iv, rj 6 ri
hri KuXovac to tocovtov ol ^wypdcpoiv iracSe^;,
TTore
ovK dv TTore SoKei TravaaaOai Kocrfiovcra, ware
eTTiBoaiv fjLTjKeT' e^€iv et<? to KaWio) re Kal (pave-
pcoTepa ytyveaOat rd yeypa/u.p.eva.
KA. '^'XêBov evvoS) dKOvcav koX avTO<i yiyova ttj
Tocavrrj rix^'f)-
A0. Kat ovSiv ye
e/3Xa/S7?<?. xp-qadopbedd ye
firjv vvv iraparv^ôvri rrepl avrrj<; rjpip Xoyep
rat
C TO roiovBe, to? et' ttotc ri<; emvorjaeie ypdyjrai re
ft)9 KdXXiarov ^<aov koX rovr av pLrjSiTrore irrl to
(ftavXorepov aXX,' irrl ro fieXriov la^îv rov im-
6vro<i del ')(^p6vov, ^vvvoel<i on 6pr)r6<i ayv, el pir)
riva KaraXeiyp-ei Bidho\ov o<? ^ erravopdovv re, idv

rt (r(f)dXXrjrat ro i^wov viro )(p6v(ov, xal to
TrapaXeicpdev vrro t?}? dadevela<i rrj^ eavrov Trpo?
rrjv Te')(yriv ol6<i re el<i ro rrpoadev earai cpaiSpv-
vtov TTOielv emhihovai, aptKpov riva "x^povov avrm
TTOvoî -napapevel irdpLiroXv^ ;
KA. 'AXrjdrj.
D A0.Tt ovv ; dp ov roiovrov BoKel aot ro rov
vopLoderov ôvXrjpa elvac ; rrpcorov p.ev ypdyp-ai
T0v<i v6pL0v<; 7rp6<i rrjv aKpiêiav Kara hvvap.LV
lKavSi<;' eireira Trpol6vro<; rov ^povov Kal roiv
Bo^dvrav epyw rreipcopevov dp" oiei rivd ovrci}<i
dcppova yeyovevai vop,oOirT}v, axrr dyvoelv on
TrdpnoXXa dvdyKi] TrapaXeirreadai roiavra, a
Set nvd ^vveiropevov irravopdovv, iva p,T]8a/J,f}
jêipoov, êXrlcov 8e r) rroXireia xat o KO(Tpo<s
E del yiyvqrai rrepl rrjv fpKiapLevrjv avrw rroXiv
* hs Hermann, Scânz : toD MSS.
450
LAWS, BOOK VI
get to an end, and in its embellishing it seems as if
it would never stop laying on colours or taking them
off —
or whatever the professional painters term the
—
process and reach a point where the picture admits
of no further improvement in respect of beauty and
lucidity.
CLIN. Ij too, remember hearing something of the
fact you mention, although I am by no means
practised in that kind of art.
ATH. You are none the worse for that. may We
still use this fact, which it has occurred to us to
mention, to illustrate the following point. Suppose

that a man should propose to paint an object of
extreme beauty, and that this should never grow
worse, but always better, as time went on, do you
not see that, since the painter is mortal, unless he
leaves a successor who is able to repair the picture if
it suffers through time, and also in the future to
improve it by touching up any deficiency left by his

own imperfect craftsmanship, his interminable toil
will have results of but short duration?
CLIN. True.
ATH. Well then, do you
not think that the
purpose of the lawgiver is similar? He purposes,
first, to write down the laws, so far as he can, with
complete precision next, when in the course of time

;
he puts his decrees to the test of practice, you cannot

suppose that any lawgiver will be so foolish as not to
perceive that very many things must necessarily be
left over, which it will be the duty of some successor
to make right, in order that the constitution and the
system of the State he has organised may always
grow better,^ and never in any way worse.
» Cp. PolU. 298 A ff.
45^
PLATO
KA. Et«69, TTw? lyap ov ; ôvXeadai iravra
QVTLVOVV TO TOIOVTOV.
A0. OvKovv el Tt9 Tiva jjurf'âvriv eôi 'rrpof
TOVTO, epyo) koI \6yoL<i Ttva rpotrov Bihdêiev av
erepov etVe fieiôva core eXciTTco irepl tout eêiv
evvoiav, ottco^ )(^pr) (f)v\drT€iv koI eTravopOovv
v6fiov<;, ovK dv TTore 'Keycov direiiroi to roioinov
TTpXv inl TeXo? eXdeiv
770 KA. n&i? yap ov ;
A0. OvKovv iu rut vvv irapovTt, irotriTeov ep.o\
Kol a(f>a>v TOVTO ;
KA. To TTolov Sr) Xeyei<;

A0. Êiireihr] vofioOeTelv fiev /j,eXko/j.ev, ypr/vTui
Be rjfilv vo/jLO(f)v\aKe<;, rj/xelf S' iv hv<Tp,ai<; tov
îov, 01 8' o)? TTyoo? veoi, dfia fiiv, &>? âjxev,
r]}jLd<i
Bel vopLoOcTelv rjp,d<i, a/xa Be Treipdadai TTOtelv koX

TOVTOvi avTovq vofiodeTa<i Te koX vofio(f)v\aKa<i
€49 TO BwUTOV.
B KA. Tt fiijv ; etirep oloi Te y ecrfiev iKavw<i.
A0. 'AA,A-' ovv TreipuTea ye koI TrpodvfitjTea.
KA. nft)9 ydp ov ;
A0. Aeycofiev avTov^' 'fl <f)L\oi
Brj irpo^
aa}Trjpe<i vofiwv, CKdaTcov S)v Tidefiev
rjfiel<i irepl
TOU9 vofiov^ TrdfiTToWa irapakei'ô pbev dvdyKT)
ydp' ov firjv aX.X' oaa ye fjurj a-fitxpa koI to okov
6t9 Bvvap^LV OVK dv^crofiev direpirjyrjTOv Kaddirep
Tivl irepiypac^fj' tovto Be Berjcret (TVfnr\r)povv
vfid<i'
452
LAWS, BOOK VI
CLIN. This, of course, is what everyone naturally
desires.
ATH. Suppose then that a man knew of a device
indicating the way in which he could teach another
man by deed and word to understand in a greater or
less degree how he should conserve or amend laws,
surely he would never cease declaring it until he
had accomplished his purpose.
CLIN. He certainlv would not.
ATH. Must not we three act thus on the present
occasion ?
CLIN. What is it you mean ?
ATH. Weabout to make laws, and Law-
are
wardens have been appointed by us therefore, ;
since we are in the evening of life, while those com-

pared to us are youthful, we should not only legislate,
as we say, ourselves, but also make legislators, as
well as Law-wardens, of these very same men, so far
as we can.
CLIN. —
We should, if, that is to say, we are
capable of so doing.
ATH. At any rate we must try, and try hard.
CLIN. By all means.
ATM. Let us address them thus " Beloved
:
—
Keepers of the Laws, in many departments of our
legislation we shall leave out a vast number of matters
(for we needs must do so) yet, notwithstanding,
;
all important matters, as well as the general descrip-

tion, we shall include, so far as we can, in our outline
sketch. Your help will be required to fill in this
outline and you must listen to what I say about the
;
aim you should have before you in doing so. Megil-

lus, Clinias and I have often stated to one another
that aim, and we agree that it is rightly stated so ;
453
PLATO
i/fia^ Se r)fuv ôvXofieda ^vyyv (ofiovd'i re dfia
Kat, fxadrjTa<i yiyveaOai, ^XiirovTa^ tt/oo? ravra
et9 airep r}/ji€i<i ^vve')(aiprjaafiev dWi]\oL<i rov
vofio^vXaKci T€ Koi vo/MoOeTrjv Selv ^Xeiretv. rjv
he rj <rvyx(t)pr)(Ti<; ev exovaa K€<pciX,aiov, oVa)? irore

D avrjp dyado<i yiyvoir dv rrjv dvOpdaiTW irpocrrj-
Kovaav dperrjv t^? "^^XV^ ^X<w ^"^ Ttvo'i eTrtri]-
hevp.aTOvac<; etre
6t]\eia, vicov ^ yepovrcov, ottw? et? ravrov tovto
o Xeyojxev Terafievr) (nrovBr) irdaa earat Sid
TravTo<i tov /Stou, twv 8' dWcov oiroaa epLTToSia
TOVTOi^ firjhev TrpoTifMwv (fiaveiTai p,r)B^ oaricrovv,
E reXevTcav Se koX TroXeoj?, edv ^ dvdtnaTov <Cdv^
dvdyKi] âivrjTat yiyveadai irpXv edeXeiv SouXeiov
virofieivaaav ^ ^vyov dp-)(êadai vtto xîpovcov, rj
XeiTreiv (fivyfj rrjv ttoXiv, &)? Trdvra ra roiavr ap
ecrO" vTTopêvereov trda'ôvTa'; rrplv dXXdâadat
TToXiTelav fj -êipov; dvOpoiirovi TT€(f>VK€ TTOcelv.
ravra r)/j,€i<; re epurpoadev ^vvcofioXoyrjcrd/jLeda,
Kal vvv vfx,et<i ^ficov et? ravra e/cdrepa /SXeTrovre?
iirdvire ^ Kal yjreyere rovt v6p,ov<;, ocroi /nrj ravra
771 hvvarol, rovv dya-
6Siv Xeyofievwv 'âipeiv ')(^prj irpocrayopeveiv.
Âpxv ^^ €(rra> r(ov fierd ravra r]fuv v6fia>v rjBe
* ffiT^ffeojj : KTT«r«aij MSS., edd. (ttot' avK-llfffayS Apelt).

» iiv : ô*- MSS. Also I add <&v>.
' uxofifivaaav Stallb. : inrofidvaffa MSS.
454
LAWS, BOOK VI
we desire you to be in immediate unison witli us, as
our disciples, and to aim at those objects at which, as
we three have asrreed, the lawgiver and Law-warden
ought to aim. The sum and substance of our agree-
ment was simply this that whatsoever be the way
:
in which a member of our community be he of the —

male or female sex, young or old, may become a —
good citizen, possessed of the excellence of soul which
belongs to man, whether derived from some pursuit
or disposition, or from some form of diet, or from
desire or opinion or mental study, —
to the attainment
of this end all his efforts throughout the whole of his
life shall be directed and not a single person shall
;
show himself preferring any object which impedes

this aim in fine, even as regards the State, he must
;
allow it to be revolutionised, if it seems necessary,

rather than voluntarily submit to the yoke of slavery
under the rule of the worse, or else he must himself
quit the State as an exile all such sufferings men
:
must endure rather than change to a polity which

naturally makes men worse. This is what we
previously agreed upon ^ so do you now keep both
:
these objects of ours in view as you revise the laws,

and censure all the laws which are unable to effect
them, but welcome all such as are able to do so, and,
adopting them wholeheartedly, rule your lives by
them. All other practices, which tend towards
* goods '
(so-called), other than these, you must bid
farewell to."
For a beginning of the laws which are to follow,
» 688 E, 742 E.
—-* ViTBhTTf Apett,' England : iVcufctTc MSS. (Schanz brackets

iTraivflrf Kal). ...
455
PLATO
Tt9, d<^' lepoyv rjpyiievT}. top apidfiov 'yap St) Set
nrpwrov avaXaêlv rov rStv 7r€VTaKi(T')(i\ici)v
r]iJ,d^
Kol TCTjapaKovTa, 6cra Kal eXKoaiv
€i,KoadKt<i opdorara <^vv. 6;êt hehvavop,a^ BcaSexa
fiev o TTa? dpiOfi6<; rjp,tv, BooSefca Be koI 6 rrjVTOv lepovv avTo,^, dWoi Se
aXkayv opOoTepov iveipavTO Te Kal euruêtrTC-
i<ra>^
C pov r]p.el<i 8e ovv vvv âp.ev
eOeioacrav ttjv 8tavo/.u']v.
opBoTUTa irporjprjcrOat tov twv TrevTaKt(T')(î\ia)V
Kal TCTTapaKOvra dpi6p.6v, 09 •7racra9 Ta9 8i,avopu<i
€')(€i p-expi' Tftiy 8(i}8eKa diro pid<; dp^dpevo<; ttXtjv
ei'BcKdBo'i' avTrj 8* e%6t crpiKpoTaTOV Xapu' eTU
Odrepa "yap jiyveTat 8votv eaTiatv dtro-
vyir)<;
ve/LirjOevcraiv. eaTC TavTa d\7]d(o<; ovTa,

dx; S'
Kara a')ô'\.T]V ovk av ttoXv^ eiriBeiêie pv9o<i.

Tri(TT€vaavT€<i 8t) rd vvv t^ Trapova-r) <f)i]p.D Kal
D Xoyo) veipcopêv Te tuvtij,^ Kal eKacTTTj polpa Oeov
t] Oecov 7rat8a i7ri(f)rjp,i<TavT€<;, ^(op,ov8eKa pev t^ Tt]^ (f)v\rj<; Biavopfj, BcoBeKa Be avTfp
TO) TTJ^ 7roA,e&>9 8cap,epicrfiM, Oecav p,ev 8i] Trp&TOV
'^dpiTO'i ev€Ka Kal t&v trepl 6eov<t, BevTepov Be
TOLVTig : Tavrr)v MSS. : a,vrT]v Ast.
1 Cp. 737 E flf.
456
LAWS, BOOK VI
we must commence with things sacred. First, we
uiiist consider anew ^ the number 5,040, and the
number of convenient subdivisions which we found
it to contain both as a whole and when divided
up into tribes the tribal number is, as we said, a

:
twelfth part of the whole number, being in its

nature precisely 20 X 21. Our whole number has
twelve subdivisions, and the tribal number also has
twelve ; and each such portion must be regarded as
a sacred gift of God, conformed to the months and
to the revolution of the universe. Wherefore also
every State is guided by native instinct to hold
them sacred, although some men possibly have made
their divisions more correctly than others, or have
consecrated them more happily. We, in any case,
affirm now that we are perfectly correct in first
selecting the number 5,040, which admits of division
by all the numbers from 1 to 12, excepting only
11— and this omission is very easily remedied, since
the mere subtraction of two hearths from the total
restores an integral number as quotient that this :
'^
is really true we could show, at our leisure, by a
fairly short explanation. For the present, then, we

shall trust to the oracular statement just delivered,
and we shall employ these subdivisions, and give to
each portion the name of a God, or of a child of
Gods, and bestow on it altars and all that belongs
thereto and at these we shall appoint two assem-
;
blies every month for sacrifice —

of which twelve
(yearly) shall be for the whole tribal division, and
twelve for its urban section only the object of ;
these shall be, first, to offer thanksgiving to the gods

and to do them service, and secondly, as we should
* 5,040 = (11 X 458) + 2.
457
PLATO
rjfiSyv avr&v olK€t6TJ]T6<; re irept fcal yvcopLoreco^
aX\)'i\(t)i>, o)? (f)aifi€V av, koI o/XLXia<i eveKa Tratr/;?.
E 77/309 yap8r] rrjv tmv yd/jLcov KOivwvlav Kol ^v/j,-
fiiîv avayKaiwdX-
XeaOai /iTjEaficof; iv Tot<; roiovroi^ Kara to hvvarov.
Trj<; ovv roiavTT]<i aTrovBrj<; eveKa 'X^py] kol ra?
iraiZia'i Troielcrdai )(ôpevovTd<; re Kal \opevovaa<;
772 Kopov^ Kal Kopa^;, kuI ap-a Si] decopovvrdt re Kal
detopov/xevovi /xera Xoyou re Kal rfXiKia^; rivo^
e-)(ôva'r]^ ecKvla^ 'npo(^dcreL<i, yv/j,vov^ Kal yvfiva<i
fiexptTTep al8ov<i crox^povo^ kKdaratv. rovrcdv S"
eTTip.eXTjra^ iravroiv Kal koct fir^ra'i rov<i rSiv x^pfov

apXovTa<i fyiyvecrdai, Kal vop,oOeTa<i p,erd rwv
vofio(f)vXdKa)v, oacov ^ av ?7/xet9 eKXeiiratp.ev rdr-
rovraf.
^ AvayKalov Be, oirep etirofiev, irepl to, roiavra
TTavra ocra afiiKpa Kal ttoXXo, vopboOeTrjv fiev
B iKXeiireiv, Tov<i S' e/x7rei/90U9 del Kar eviavrov
yiyvofievov<i avTcov drro rr)<i p^/9eta9 fxavOdvovTa^;
TaTTecrOai Kal eTravopdovp.evovi Kivelv Kar eviav-
Tov, e<u9 av opo<i lKav6<i 86^t} t&v toiovtoiv vo-
/j,Cp,Q)v Kal eTTcnjSevfidTcov yeyovevai. XP^^^'^ P''^^
ovv /jLeTpio<i dp,a Kal iKav6<i ylyvoiT av Tij<i ep,7rei-
pt'at heKaeT7]poepovcra 8(r<»v Aldus: gtroc MSS.

458
LAWS, BOOK VI
assert, to promote fellowship amongst ourselves and
mutual acquaintance and association of every
sort. For, in view of the fellowship and intercourse
of marriage, it is necessary to eliminate ignorance,
both on the part of the husband concerning the
woman he marries and the family she comes from,
and on the part of the father concerning the man
to whom he gives his daughter for it is all- ;
important in such matters to avoid, if possible, any

mistake. To achieve this serious purpose, sportive
dances should be arranged for boys and girls and ;
at these they should both view and be viewed, in

a reasonable way and on occasions that offer a suit-
able pretext, with bodies unclad, save so far as sober
modesty prescribes. Of all such matters the officers
of the choirs shall be the supervisors and controllers,
and also, in conjunction with the Law- wardens, the
lawgivers of all that we leave unprescribed.^
It is, as we regard to all
said, necessary that in
matters involving a host of petty details the law-
giver should leave omissions, and that rules and
amendments should be made from year to year
by those who have constant experience of them
from year to year and are taught by practice, until
it be decided that a satisfactory code has been
made out to regulate all such proceedings. A fair
and sufficient period to assign for such experimental
work would be ten years, both for sacrifices and for
dances in all their several details each body of ;
officials, acting in conjunction with the original law-

giver, if he be still alive, or by themselves, if he be
dead, shall report to the Law-wardens whatever is
omitted in their own department, and shall make
1 Cp. 764 E f.
459
PLATO
opdovaOat, fie-x^pnrep av reXo^ ^X^t** eKaarov
So^T] Tov KaXwq iêipydaOaf rore 8e aKLvrjra
defievov^ r]?)i] 'x^prjaOai //.era tmv aXk(ov v6p.cov,
ov<i eraê Kar dp)(â<i 6 Oeh avTol<; vop.oOerr)';. oiv
irepi Ktvelv pev e/covrwi /MTjSeTroTe firjBev el 8e rt?
D dvdyKr] Soêie iTore KaraXaêiv, 7rdaa<; pev ra<;
dp')(^d<i 'X^pr) f y/A/SouA-of 9, irdvra Be tov Brjfiov Kal
irdaa^ Secov p,avT€ia<; eTreXOovra^, edv <Tvp,(f)cov(oai

TrdvTC'i, ovTQ) KLvelv, dW(o<i Be p,r]Be7roTe p-tjBafio)';,
dWa TOV KcoXvovTa del kutu vopôv KpaTelv.
'Oirodev ^ Ti,^ yapLeiTU) fxev ird^ evToî tcov "jrevTe /cal
E TpiuKOVTa eTOiV to Be Trperrov Kal to dpp,oTTov
ft)? ')(pr] i^TjTelv, TTpwTOv eiraKOvcrdTW Bel ydp, w?
^7)0-1 K\etvLa<;, epLirpoaOev tov v6p.ov Trpooifiiov
oiKetov eKacTTW irpoTiOevai.
KA. l^dWtaTa, 0} êve, Btep,vr)p6vevaa^, eXa/Se?
re TOV \6yov Kaipov Kal /xaX' ep,o\ Bokovvt eivat
crvp,p,eTpov.
A0. E5 \eyei<i. 'H jral, tolvvv <^<ap,ev dyadSiv
773 TTaTepwv (f)vvTi, tou? Trapd toI<; ep,(f}poaiv €vB6ôv<i
ydp,ov<i XPV yf^P^tv, o'i croi Trapaivotev av p.r)
(f)€Vy€lV TOV T(OV TTeVTjTOiV /HrjBc TOV TWV TTkOVaiCOV
Bt(OK€tv Bta(f)ep6vTQ}<; ydp,ov, dW
eav ToKkalaaKr],
TOV vTToBeeaTepov del Tip,oiVTa et,<i ttjv KotvcovLuu
^vvUvai. TTj re ydp TroXei ^vp(f)opov dv ecrj Tairrr]
.if. dir69ev Aldus, England : irdre MSS.

' (^yinoyy I add.
460
LAWS, BOOK VI
it good, until each detail seems to have reached its
proper completion this done, they shall decree
:
them as fixed rules, and employ them as well as

the rest of the laws originally deci'eed by the law-
giver. In these they must never make any change
voluntarily; but if it should ever be thought that
a necessity for change has arisen, all the people
must be consulted, as wêll as all the officials, and
they must seek advice from all the divine oracles ;
and if there is a general consent by all, then they
may make a change, but under no other conditions
at any time and the objector to change shall always
;
prevail according to law.

When any man of twenty-five ^ years of age,
viewing and being viewed by others, believes that
he has found in any quarter a mate to his liking
and suitable for the joint procreation of children,
he shall marry, in every case before he is thirty-
five ;but first let him hearken to the direction as
to how he should seek what is proper and fitting,
for, as Clinias maintains, one ought to introduce
each law by a prelude suitable thereto."^
CLIN. A very proper reminder. Stranger, and —
you have chosen, in my opinion, a most opportune
point in your discourse for making it.
ATH. You are right. So let us say to the son
of noble sires My child, you must make a marriage
:
that will commend itself to men of sense, who

would counsel you neither to shun connexion with
a poor family, nor to pursue ardently connexion
\vith a rich one, but, other things being equal, to
prefer always an alliance with a family of moderate
means. Such a course will benefit both the State
1 But cp. 721 B. * Cp. 720 E.
461
VOL. 1. n
PLATO
rait re ^vviovaai<; eariaiî' to yap 6/xaX6v kui
^vfXfxerpov uKparov fivpiov Sia(f)epei tt/Oo? aperrjv.
Koa-fXLCov re irarepoyv xph T^podvp-eladai yiyveaOat
B KrjhearrjV tov avro) ^vveihora Iraficorepov a/xa Kat
OaTTOv TOV heovTO€p6-
fievov TOV S' evavTLQ)<; TrecpvKOTa eVl TavavTca xph
tcrjhevfiaTa rropevecrdai. Kal kuto, TravTO^; 6t<?
ecTTM /j.vOo<; ydfxov tov yap ttj TroKei Set av/Kpe-

povTa /xvrjaTeveiv ydp,ov eKUCTTOV, ov tov r^SiaToi'
avTu>. (pepeTUL Be ttw? 7ra> del kuto, (pvacv tt/jo?
TOV o/jLOCotutov avT(p, 60 ev uvu>pa\o<i rj TroXt? oXrj
C yiyveTUi XPVP-^^^ ^^ ''^^^ Tpoirwv ijOecriv' i^ ayv a
fit] ôvXopeda ^vp.âiveiv y'jplv Kal p,d\iaTa
^vp./3aivei Tai<; TrXeicTTat^ troXeai. TavTa Brj Sia
\6yov pkv vopw TTpocTTaTTeiv, p,r} ya/xeiv irXovuiov
irXovaiov firjBe TroXXa Bvvdp-evov irpdTTeiv dXkov
TOCovTou, ddTT0V<i Be rjdeai Trpo? ^paBvTepov; Kal
j3paBvTepov<i 7r/)09 ddTTOv<i dvayKdêiv t^ tcov
ydficov Koivwvia TropeveaOac, irpof t& yeXoia ecvai
Ov/Jiov av eyeipai ttoXXoI^' ov yap paBcov evvoelv
D OTi TToXiv elvai Bel BiKrjv KpaTr}po<i KeKpa/xevrjv, ov
fiaiv6fjLevo<i pev olvo<; eyKex^P^vo^ êl, KoXa^6p,evo<;
Be VTTO vii<ôvTO<i eTepov deov KaXrjv KOivcoviav
Xa0a)v dyadov Trcopa Kal p,€Tpiov direpydêTai.
TOVT ovv yiyvopevov ev ttj twv TraiBcov p,i,êt
Biopav, Qif eVo? ecTTelv, BvvaTO^; ovBeiij. tovtcov
Br} )(dpiv eav p,€V vopw to. TOiavTa dvayKalov,
» Cp. Polit. 310 C 3.
462
i
LAWS, BOOK VI
and the united families,^ since in respect ot
excellence what is evenly balanced and symmetrical
is infinitely superior to what is untempered. The
man who knows he is und>.ly hasty and violent in
all his actions should win a bride sprung from steady
parents while the man that is of a contrary nature
;
should proceed to mate himself with one of the

opposite kind. Regarding marriage as a whole
there shall be one general rule : each man must
seek to form such a marriage as shall benefit the
State, rather than such as best pleases himself.
There is a natural tendency for everyone to make
for the mate that most resembles himself, whence
it results that the whole State becomes ill-balanced
both in wealth and in moral habits ; and because
of this, the consequences we least desire are those
that generally befall most States. To make express
—
enactments about these matters by law that, for
instance, a rich man must not marry into a rich
family, nor a man of wide power with a powerful
family, or that man of hasty tempers must be
obliged to seek alliances with those of slower
—
tempers, and the slow with the hasty this, besides
being ridiculous, would cause widespread resent-
ment; for people do not find it easy to perceive
that a State should be like a bowl of mixed wine,
where the wine when first poured in foams madly,
but as soon as it is chastened by the sober deity of
water, it forms a fair alliance, and produces a potion
that is good and moderate. That this is precisely
what happens in the blending of children 'is a thing
which hardly anyone is capable of perceiving there-
;
from in the legal code we must omit such rules, and

merely try by the spell of words to persuade each
Q2 463
PLATO
E eTraSovTa Be ireideiv ireipaaOaL rr^v roiv iravhcov
OfiaXorrjTa avTCOv auTot? Trj<i tcov ydficov la6rr)ro<i
a'n\r)(T'Tov 'x^prj/jbdrmv ov<Tr]<i irepX TrXeiovo^ eKaarov
TTOietaOai, koI hi 6veihov<; aTTorpeireiv rov Trepl ra
)(^priixaTa iv rot<; 'yd/j,oi9
XPh '^V^ deiyevovf (pvaeco'i avre'^^êadai tw
TratSa? Traihwv KaTaXei-rrovra del tm Oew VTrrj-
774 peTa<i dv6^ avrov irapahbhovai. iravra ovv raiiTa
KUL en TrXeico ti^ dv etirot irepi yafxcov, (w?
^pi] yap,elv, 7rpooip.ia^6p,evo<; 6p0co<;. dv 8' dpa
Tt<f /jirj ireiOrjrai eiccov, dXXorpiov 8e avrov Koi
dKOiicovTjTOv iv rj} TroXet €-)i^r} koL dya/xo<^ o)V yevrj-
rai 7revT€KatTpiaKovTOvrr]<i, ^-qp-iovadto kut eviav-

Tov eKacrrov, 6 pêyiarov fiev rlp.rjpa KeKTr]p,evo<;
eKUTov 8pa')(fial'?, 6 Be to Sevrepov e^Bo/jLijKovra,
rpirov he e^rjKOvra, 6 he to reraprov rptdKovra-
B Tovro 8' earo) t% "Hpa? lepov. 6 he p,T] eKTivwv
Kar iviavTov he/cuTrXdaiov 6cf>ei\er(o. 'jrpaTTecrOco
he 6 Ta/xta9 Trj<; deov, p,7} e/CTrpdâ^; he avTO<i
6(f)€iXeT(oKoX iv Tat? evOvvai^ tov tolovtou Xoyov
vire'îTO) Trdf. elv tmv vecov idv he KoXdêiv
Tivd iTTiyêipfj, 7ra9 too dhiKOV/xevw ôrjdenoi kui
C dfivpero}, fMrj ôr/OoJv he 6 7rapayev6p.€vo<i heLXo<i
1 721 B fF. Bj' reproduction man secures a continuous

share in the life of the divine Universe ; cp. 903 C.
464
LAWS, BOOK VI
one to value the equality of his children more
highly than the equality of a marriage with inordi-
nate wealth, and by means of reproaches to divert
from his object him who has set his heart on marry-
ing for money, although we may not compel him by
a written law.
Concerning marriage these shall be the exhorta-
tions given, in addition to those previously given,^
declaring how it is a duty to lay hold on the ever-
living reality by providing servants for God in our
own stead and this we do by leaving behind us
;
children's children. All this and more one might say

in a proper prelude concerning marriage and the
duty of marrying. Should any man, however, refuse
to obey willingly, and keep himself aloof and un-
partnered in the State, and reach the age of thirty-
five unmarried, an annual fine shall be imposed upon
him, of a hundred drachmae if he be of the highest
property-class, if of the second, seventy, if of the
third, sixty, if of the fourth, thirty. This fine shall
be consecrated to Hera.^ He that fails to pay the
fine in full every year shall owe ten times the
amount of it, and the treasurer of the goddess shall
exact this sum, or, failing to exact it, he shall owe
it himself, and in the audit he shall in every case
be liable to account for such a sum. This shall be
the monev-fine in which the man who refuses to
marry shall be mulcted, and as to honour, he shall
receive none from the younger men, and no young
man shall of his own free-will pay any regard to
him if he attempt to punish any person, everyone
:
shall come to the assistance of the person maltreated

and defend him, and whoever is present and fails
* As goddess of marriage.
465
PLATO
re afia xal KaK6<i viro rou vo/iiov ttoX/tt;? elvai
XeyeaOco.
Tlepl Se trpoiKO'i etprjTai /xev Kol irporepov,
clprjaOoj Se TrdAiv, to? 'Icra olptI laojv icrri to ^ [XTfre
Xafi^dveiv ri pb-qr eKhthovai rt, ^ <ôi58 etKos aydpiovs
6vras)> 8ta )(pr]pATCov drropLav yrjpaai<€LU rov? Trevr]-
—
ra? TO, yap dvayKala inrdpxovTd ean rrdui roiv iv —
TavTT] v^pis Se tjttov yvvai^l kol SovXeia
rfj TToXei,
ra7T€Lvr) Kal dveXevdepos Slo. ;^p7J/iara rots yqfiacri
D yiyvoir dv. /cat o }jl€v Tretdopievos ev rdjv KaXoJv Spwr]
rovr dv 6 Se pLT] ireidopievos r\ StSou? rj Xap-^dvcDV
ttXIov ri TTevrtJKOvra dîa hpa^p^div icrdijros X^P^^> ° ^^
pivds, 6 Se rpidJv rfpLipLvaiinv, 6 Se hveZv puvixlv 6 ro pieyia-
rov Tt/AT^/xa KeKrrjpiivos , dêtAe'ro) puev ra> hrjpboaio}
roaovrov erepov.ro Se Sodev rj XT](j)$ev lepbi/ earco rr]<i
"H/sa? re Kal rov Ato?, Trparrovrcov Se oi rafiiai
E rovroiv rolv Oeolv, KaOdirep ipprjOr] rcov fir)
yapôvvTOJV irepi rov<i rafx,La<; eKTrpdrreLv eKacrrore
revs T77?''Hpa<? rj nap' avroiv eKaarov^ rrjv i^r^paav
eKriveiv.
Êyyvr]v Se elvai Kvpiav irarpa p,ev irpStrov,
hevrepav irdtTTrov, rpirrjv Se d8e\cf)0)v o/xona-
rplwv iav Se fxijSe el? r} rovrcov, rrjv irpof
firjrpo'i fiera rovro elvai Kvpiav MO-avrco^;' iav S'
dpa rvxv '^'•'^ dt]Or]<i avpLâLvrj, rov<; iyyvrara
yevovi del Kvplov<i elvat, /xera rcov emrpoTTcoV' baa
1 TO MSS. rih Aldus, Zur.
^ Xafx^dveiv ri jxrp-eiKSiSovai (ti) Cornarius Xa/MâvovTi . . .
:
eV'StSovTi MSS. <ovS' . ovrasy I add, exempli gratia, to

. .
up the lacuna assumed by Schneider and Schanz (MSS.

fill :
Marg. and Stallb. read SiSaaKeu' for yr/pdaK-etv, Apelt. yepaipnv).

1 742 C.
2 i.e. for the bride's " trousseau," given by her father to
466
LAWS, BOOK VI
thus to give assistance shall be declared by law to
be both a cowardly and a bad citizen.
Concerning dowTies it has been stated before,^ and
it shall be stated again, that an equal exchange con-
sists in neither giving nor receiving any gift ; nor is
it likely that the poor amongst the citizens in this
state should remain till old age unmarried for lack of
—
means for all have the necessaries of life provided
for them — ;and the result of this rule will be less
insolence on the part of the >vives and less humiliation
and servility on the part of the husband because of
money. WTioso obeys this rule will be acting nobly
—
but he that disobeys by giving or receiving for
raiment ^ a sum of over fifty drachmae, or over one
mina, or over one and a half minae, or (if a member
of the highest property-class) over two minae,
shall owe to the public treasury a sum equal thereto,
and the sum given or received shall be consecrated
to Hera and Zeus, and the treasurers of these
—
deities shall exact it, ^just as it was the rule,^ in
cases of refusal to marry, that the treasurers of Hera
should exact the fine in each instance, or else pay
it out of their own pockets.
The right of betrothal belongs in the first place to
the father, next to the grandfather, thirdly to the
full brothers failing any of these, it rightly belongs
;
next to relatives on the mother's side in like order

in case of any unwonted misfortune, the right shall
belong to the nearest of kin in each case, acting
in conjunction with the guardians.* Concerning the
the bridegroom. Fifty drachmae is the maximum value
allowed for the lowest class, a mina for the next lowest, and
so on upwards.
» Cp. 774 B.
* For these " guardians " (of orphans) see 926 E S
467
PLATO
Be irpoTeXeia yd/x(ov ^ ri? dWrj TrepX rh, roiavra
115 lepovpyia p.eW6vra>v rj 'yi'yvopivccv y yeyovoTcov
TrpotrrjKOvcrd icrri TcXetaOai, tou? €^rfyr)Td<i ipco-
Toivra Xph '^'^'' 'TeiOop.evov eKeivoi^; eKaarov ^yel-
crOat TTcivra eavrw /xerptaj? ytyvecrOai.
TiepX he TUiv earidcrecov, <^tXou9 p,ev ^(^pr) Kai
<f)iXa<; p,7) TrXeiov^ irevTe eicarepwv avyKaXeiv, arvy-
yevoiv Se kuI olKelwv a)aauT(o<; rocrovTOu^ aWov /xev et? %/37;/u,aTa pêyucnw
B rov roaovTOv, rat h ecpe^Pj-i ovro),
fxvav, Tu> S' TjfiLav
Kaddirep viroê^rjKev eKaarcp to rifiTj/JXt. koI tov
fiev TreiOofievov tw vofiw eiraivelv ')(^pr) TravTw;, tov
Be direidovvra /coXaôurcov oi vop.O(^vXaK€?
direipoKaXov re ovra koI diraiBevTov roiv irepi rav. iTLveiP Be et? fiedrjp
ovre aXXoOi ttov TrpeTret, ttXtjv iv ral<; rov tov
olvov BovTOf 6eov kopTai<;, ovB^ d(T(f)aXi<;, ovt ovv
Br) irepl <ydfiov<i eanovBaKOTa, iv ol<; e/x(f)pova
fidXicrra elvai vpeTrei vvp<prjv Koi vvp<f)LOv pera-
C fioX-qv ov apiKpav îov p,6TaXXdTT0VTa<;, dpa Be
Koi TO yevvwpbevov ottcw? otl pdXicTTa e^ ep(^povri3V
del yiyvrjTai' a-êBov yap dBrjXov ottolu vv^ t] (pco<;
avTO yevv)']aei perd deov. kol irpb^ tovtoi<; Bel
p,r) T(t)v awpbdrcov BLaKe')(ypeva)V viro pe6rj<^ 717^6-
aOai, TT}V TTaiBovpyiav, dXX! evtraye^ d-KXave<i

r/crv^^âlov re ev pr^rpa ^ ^vvicnaaOat, to (fevope-
vov 6 Be Bia)vcop€vo<; avTo^ re êperai iravTrj
KoX (pepei, XvTTCov kutu re acopa koi -xfruxv^'
* ix-firpa Cornarius, England : fj.o(p:i MSS.
1 Cp. 700 B, 722 D.

468
LAWS, BOOK VI
preliminary marriage-sacrifice and all other sacred
ceremonies proper to be performed before, during,
or after marriage, each man shall enquire of the
Interpreters, and believe that, in obeying their
directions, he will have done all things duly.
—
Concerning marriage-feasts, both p>arties should
invite their male and female friends, not more than
five on each side, and an equal number of the kins-
folk and connexions of both houses in no case
:
must the expense exceed what the person's means

—
permit one mina for the richest class, half that
amount for the second, and so on in proportion,
according as the valuation grows less. He that
obeys the law should be praised .by all ; but him
that disobeys the Law-wardens shall punish as a
man of poor taste and ill-trained in the " nomes " *
of the nuptial Muses. Drinking to excess is a
practice that is nowhere seemly —
save only at the
'^
feasts of the God, the Giver of wine, —

nor yet safe
and certainly it is not so for those who take marriage
seriously ; for at such a time above all it behoves
both bride and bridegroom to be sober, seeing that
the change in their life is a great one, and in order
to ensure, so far as possible, in every case that the
child that is begotten may be sprung from the loins
of sober parents for what shall be, with God's help,
:
the night or day of its begetting is quite uncertain.

Moreover, it is not right that procreation should be
the work of bodies dissolved by excess of wine, but
rather that the embryo should be compacted firmly,
steadily and quietly in the womb. But the man
that is steeped in wine moves and is moved himself
in every way, writhing both in body and soul ; con-
i p. 674 Af.
469
PLATO
D (TTreipeiv ovv 7rapd(f)opoc rwv ecKOToyv yevvMrj ttot dv.

Bio fxaWnv fiev 6\ov tov ii'tavrov Kol îov XPV'
/jLoXicrra Be oirocrop av fyevva '^povov, evXaêladai
KaX /jLt) TTpdrrecv p^rjre ocra vocrooBi] exovra elvai
/Mtjre oaa v^pecof rj dBiKia<; ixop-eva' et? yap ra<;
Tcov yevvco/jLevcov i/ruâ? koI aco/jtaTa dvayKoiov
E iôfiopyvv/jL€vov cKTvirovadai koL tlktciv iravrr}
(pavXorepa' Bia(f)€p6vT(o<; Be eKeivrjv rrjv rjfiepav
Koi vvKTU direxeadai rcov Trepl ra roiavTa'
dpxh y^P '^"> ^ êo9 iv dvOpioirot^ lBpv/j.evi] aooêi
irdvra, Tip.TJ<; iav tt}? TTpoarjKOvaT}^ avTjj irap
NofMLaavra 8' eluai XPV '^^^ yafiovvra ralv

776 OLKLatv ralv iv rw KKrjpm rrjv erepav olov veorroiv
eyyevvr](nv koI Tpocpyjv, ^wpicrêyra diro 7raTpor}v avrov koI rSiV reKVwv.
iv yap Tal<i <pi\iai<i eciv fiev ttoô? ivfj ti<;, koXXo,
zeal crvvBel irdvra ijdr}' KaTaKoprf^ Be ^vvovcria
Kal ovK taxovaa top Bia xpî'ov ttoOov diroppelv
dX\r]\oiv TTOiel vtrepôXah TrXrjcrp.ovt]';. d)v Brj
xdpiv firjrpl Kal irarpX Kal T0i9 t^9 yvvaiKO<;

B otVetoi? TTapivTa'i XPV '^^'^ avrwv olKt](T€i<;, olov
avTOv^, e'7naK07rovvrd<i
ei9 diroLKiav d(f)iKOfiivov<;
re dfia Kal eTTcaKOTrovfievovi oIksIv, yevvoivrd<i re
KOL iKTpe(fiOVTa<; TraiSa?, KaOdrrep Xa/jLirdBa rov
* iis Ast : Kol MSS. (Schanz brackets Koi Oths).
^ For the importance of apx'fi (here personified) op. 753 E,

765 E possibly a^x^ irajêt iraj/ra was a proverb.
:
470
LAWS, BOOK VI
sequently, when drunk, a man is clumsy and bad at
sowing seed, and is thus Hkely to beget unstable
and untrusty offspring, crooked in form and character.
Wherefore he must be very careful throughout all
the year and the whole of his life— and most
especially during the time he is begetting to —
commit no act that involves either bodily ailment
or violence and injustice for these he will in-
;
evitably stamp on the souls and bodies of the off-

spring, and will generate them in every way
inferior. From acts of such a kind he must especi-
ally abstain on the day and night of his marriage ;
for the Beginning that sits enshrined as a goddess ^
among mortals is the Saviour of all, provided
that she receives the honour due to her from
each one who approaches her.
The man who marries must part from his father
and mother, and take one of the two houses^
in his allotment, to be, as it were, the nest
and home of his chicks, and make therein his
marriage and the dwelling and home of him-
self and his children. For in friendships tiie
presence of some degree of longing seems to
cement various dispositions and bind them to-
gether but unabated proximity, since it lacks
;
the longing due to an interval, causes friends to

fall away from one another owing to an excessive
surfeit of each other's company. Therefore the
married pair must leave their own houses to their
parents and the bride's relations, and act themselves
as if they had gone off to a colony, visiting and
being visited in their home, begetting and rearing
children, and so handing on life, like a torch,^ fi-om
» Cp. 745 C, D. » Cp. Rep. 328 A.
471
PLATO
^Lov "TrapaSiSovTaf; aWoi'; i^ aWwv, Oepairev-
ovra<i ael deov<; Kara v6nov<;.
Krij/jiaTa Be to fieTo. tovto irola av rt? kcktij-
fievo^ ifM/xeXeardTTjv ovaiav KeKTfjro ; ra fxev ovv
TToWa ouT€ vorjcrat âXeTror ovre Krrjaaadai, ra
he 8r] Twv olKerSiV )(â\eTra iravrr]. to 5' oitlov,
ovK 6p6S)<i 7r<y9 Kai riva Tporrov 6p6a}<i irepl avroiv
C \eyo/j.ev evavTia 'yap ral<i ^pelaif kuI Kara ra?
'y^peia'i av iroLOVfieOa -rrepl SouXcov koI ra Xeyo-
fieva.
ME. n&)9 av rovro Xeyofiev ; ov yap ttco
8'
/j,av$dvofxev, o) ra vvv (t)pdêi<i.

êve, o ri
A0. Kat fidXa ye, <w MeYiXXe, eiKor (!)<;• a'êSov
yap "TrdvTwv rmv
'KXXi'^vwv tj AaKeSaifxoviwv
eiXoire'ia diropiav 7rapda')(ôir' av Kal
irXeiarrjv
epiv TOt? pev 0)9 ev, rot^ B co? ovk ev yeyovvid
eariv iXdrray he rj re 'HpaKXecorcov SovXeia rrjs
D TWi' MapiavBvvcov KaraBovXcoaeco<; epiv av e)(ôi,
ro @erraXa)v r av Treveari/cov Wvo^. el<; a xal
rrdvra rd roiavra ySXe-vât-Ta? ripa<; ri ^(pr] iroielv

rrepl Knjcrecof; OiKerwv ; o Bi] irapicov ro) Xoyw
€rv)ôv eliTcov, Kal av pe eiKoroa^ ri rrore (f>pdôi/j,i
rjptorrja-a'i, roK ecrriv i<rp,ev on rrov rrdvre<i
etiroipevav a)<? ')(^pt) BovXov^ co? evpeveardrovi
eKrijaOai Kal dptarovi' rroXXol yap dBeX(f)a)v -qBrj
BovXoi Kal viewv rial Kpeirrovi 7rpb<; dperrjv
rrdaav yevopevot aeacoKaai Bearrora^ Kal Krrj-
* These ancient inhabitants of N. E. Bithynia were con-
quered by the people of Heraclea Poutica and made tributary

vassals.
LAWS, BOOK VI
one generation to another, and ever worshipping the
gods as the laws direct.
Next, as regards possessions, what should a man
possess to form a reasonable amount of substance ?
As to most chattels, it is easy enough both to see
what they should be and to acquire them but ;
servants present all kinds of difficulties. The reason

is that our language about them is partly right and
partly wrong ;for the language we use both con-
tradicts and agrees with our practical experience of
them.
MEG. What mean we by this? We are still in
the dark, Stranger, as to what you refer to.
ATH. That is quite natural, Megillus. For pro-
bably the most vexed problem in all Hellas is the
problem of the Helot-system of the Lacedaemonians,
which some maintain to be good, others bad
a less violent dispute rages round the subjection
of the Mariandyni ^ to the slave-system of the
Heracleotes, and that of the class of Penestae to
the Thessalians.2 In view of these and similar
instances, what ought we to do about this question
of owning servants?^ The point I happened to
mention in the course of my argument, and about—
which you naturally asked me what I referred to,
was this. We know, of course, that we would all
agree that one ought to own slaves that are as
docile and good as possible for in the past many
;
slaves have proved themselves better in every form

of excellence than brothers or sons, and have saved
« Cp. Ar. Pol. 1269* 36. " Penestae " ( = serfs) were the
old Aeolian inhabitants of Thessaly, subdued by the Heraclid
invaders.
» Cp. Ar. Fol. laSQ" 22 ffi.
473
PLATO
E fiara rd<; re olKrjcr€i<i avrcov oXa^. ravra yap
la-fiev TTov irepl BovXcov Xeyofêva.
ME. Ti fj,i]v
Ae. OvKovv KoX rovvavTLov CO? vyceî ovSev

8ovXr]^ ouSe TriCTTeveiv ouSeTror' ovBev ray
'\frv)^rj<i
yevei Bel rov vovv KeKT^fjêvov ; 6 Be ao^xoraro'i

TMV TTOITJTCOV Kul UTT e<^ I^V UT O , Virkp TOV
m l)fJUV
A<09 ayopevcov, ax;
fjpKJv yap re voov, (prjcrLV, aTrapeiperau evpvoira

Zcu?
dvBpwv ov<; av Br) Kara BovXiov rjpap eXrjcri.
ravTa BiaXa^6vTe<; eKacrroi roi? BiavorjpaaLV

Brj
01 pev iriCTevovcri re ovBev yevet ocKeTcov, Kara

Be drjplwv (^vaiv KevTpoi<; Kal pdartîv ou rpi?
povov, dXXd TToXXdKL<;, direpydôvTai BovXa^ ra?
yjruxd^ Tcov olxeTcov' ol 3' au rdvavria tovtcov
Bpoycn TTavra.
ME. Tt pjjv ;
B KA. Tfc ovv Br) ^(^pr) voieiv rovrayv, a) êve,
Bia(f)€popeucov ovrco irepl T7)<; r)peTepa<; av %co/3a?
r)pd^, Trj7TO<; Kal tt/jo? tt)v
dvayKalav Biopiatv, to BovXov re epyw Biopi-
êadat Kal eXevdepov Kal BeaTrorijv, ovBapco<i
CVXP'H'^TOV edeXei elval re Kal y'lyveadai.
KA. âiverai.
A0.XaXeirbv Br) ro Krrjpa' epyo) yap rroXXd-
C KL<i eTTiBeSeiKrai irepl ra? ^leacrrjviiov (ruîâ?
elwdvia^ dTroardaei^ yiyveadai, Kal rrepL ye ra?
474
LAWS, BOOK VI
their masters and their goods and their whole
houses. Surely we know that this language is used
about slaves ?
MEG. Certainly.
ATH. And not the opposite kind of language
is
also used, — that the
soul of a slave has no soundness
in it, and that a sensible man should never trust
that class at all ? And our wisest poet, too, in
speaking of Zeus, declared ^ that
"Of half their wits far-thundering Zeus bereaves
Those men on whom the day of bondage falls."
Thus each party adopts a different attitude of mind :
the one places no trust at all in the servant-class,
but, treating them like brute beasts, with goads
and whips they make the servants' souls not merely
thrice but fifty times enslaved whereas the other
;
party act in precisely the opposite way.

MEG. Just so.
CLIN. Since this difference of opinion exists,
Stranger, what ought we to do about our own
country, in regard to the owning of slaves and
their punishment ?
ATH. Well now, Clinias, since man is an intract-
able creature, it is plain that he is not at all likely
to be or become easy to deal with in respect of the
necessary distinction between slave and free-born
master in actual experience.
CLIN. That is evident.
ATH. The slave is no easy chittel. For actual
experience shows how many evils result from
slavery, — the frequent revolts in Messenia,
as in
and in the States where there are many servants
* Odyas. xviL 322 f.
475
PLATO
roi>v €K fiid<i ttoXXou? olKera^ KTWfieviov
<j)wvrj<;
7roXe«9, ocra kukcl kol en Ta rwv

^vfiâtvet,,
\€jo/jL€vq}v jrepiSu'cov tmp Trepl rrjv ÎraXiav yi-
yvofievcov TravTohaira [^Xottcoi/]^ ep'ya re Koi
Trad^fiara. tt/jo? a Tf<? au ircivra ^ ^Xeyfra^; hia-
TToprjaeie tl XP^ Bpav irepl airavTOiv tS)v toiov-
Tcov. 8vo 8t) XeLTTeadov [xovdi /jLrjXavd, /xrjTe
D 7rarpia)Ta<; aWi]Xo)v elvai tou? /xeXXoi'Ta? pdov
hovXevaeiv dav/jLtpcovov; re et<? hvvaixLv on /xa-
XitTTU, Tp€<petv 8' avTOVrj puovov eKeivwv
evsKa, nrXeov he avrcov irporip.Syvra'i. tj 8e Tpocpr/
T(bv ToiovTcov fj,r]r€ nvd v^piv v^piêiv et? rot'?
oiKera^, rjrrov Be, el hvvarov, dBiKelv rj tou? e^

laou. SidSrjXo^ yap o (f)va€L kol jjlt] irXaaJW'i
aeBcdv TTfi' hiKtiv, /iicacov Be 6vrw<i to aBiKov, ev
TOVTOi^ TOiv dvOpooTTayv ev ol<; avrw paBiov dhiKelv
6 irepl rd twv BovXcov ovv tjOtj /cal vrpaêi? yiyvo-
E ixev6<i Tt9 dp,Lauro<; tov re dpocriou rrepi Koi
uBLkov aireipeiv 6i9 dperrj^ €K(f)vaiv lKav(i)Taro<i
dv eir]' ravTOP 8' ear eiirelv tovto 6p6(o<i dfxa
Xeyovra eiri re Beairorr) koX rvpdvvm koX irdcrav
Bvvaareiav Bvvaarevovn rrpos daOevearepov eav-
rov. KoXdêtv ye p.rjv ev BuKrj covXov<; Bel, kuI
fir) vovderovvraî «)<? iXevdepovi dpvTrreoOab
iroulv rrjv Be olKerov Trpocrprjo-iv ^PV o'êSoi'
eirira^Lv irdcrav ylyveaQai, purj 7rpo(nraiôvrav\ bracketed by Naber, Schanz {KKwirwv Burges).

' Uv vavra Stobaeua, Buruet anavra MSS.:
476
LAWS, BOOK VI
kept who speak the same tongue, not to speak of
the crimes of all sorts committed by the " Corsairs," *
as they are called, who haunt the coasts of Italy,
and the reprisals therefor. In view of all these
facts, it is really a puzzle to know how to deal with
all such matters. Two means only are left for us
to try— the one is, not to allow the slaves, if they
are to tolerate slavery quietly, to be all of the same
nation, but, so far as possible, to have them of
different races, —and the other is to accord them
proper treatment, and that not only for their sakes,
but still more for the sake of ourselves. Proper
treatment of servants consists in using no violence
towards them, and in hurting them even less, if
possible, than our own equals. For it is his way
of dealing with men whom it is easy for him to
wrong that shows most clearly whether a man is
genuine or hypocritical in his reverence for justice
and hatred of injustice. He, therefore, that in deal-
ing with slaves proves himself, in his character and
action, undefiled by what is unholy or unjust will
—
best be able to sow a crop of goodness, and this we
may say, and justly say, of every master, or king,
and of everyone who possesses any kind of absolute
power over a person weaker than himself. We
ought to punish slaves justly, and not to make
them conceited by merely admonishing them as we
would free men. An address to a servant should
be mostly a simple command there should be no
:
jesting with servants, either male or female, for by

a course of excessively foolish indulgence in their
treatment of their slaves, masters often make life
* The peculiar term repiSivoi ("circling round") seems to
have been applied especially to these sea-rovers of the

Tarentine coast.
477
PLATO
airepydêaOai top îov eKeivoi^ re ap-)(êa6ai koI
€avTol<i apxîv,
KA. '(.)pOoo<; Xeyei^.
A0. OvKovv ore rt? oiKCTai^ Karea Kevaa fievo<;
ei? hvvafXLv etrj irXijOei Kal iTTtrrjSeiorijri. Trpo?
eKaaTWi ra? tmv epycov to 8r)
7rapaf3or)d€La<;,
/lera tovto olK7](rei^ ^(^prj Siaypdêtv ra Xoycp ;
KA. Hdvu jxev ovv.
B A0. Kal ye (w? eTro? elirelv eoiKe
û/j,7rdaT)<;
Trj<i ye Brj veav Kal doiK7]rov
oiKoSojiLiKi)^ irepi rrjv
eu T(p TTpoaOev iroXcv iiri/xeXtjTeov elvai, rlva
TpoTTov eKaara eêt tovtcov irepb re lepa koX
reL')(ri. yafxcov S' rjv e/XTrpoadev ravra, o) K.\eii'la'
vvv h eVetTre/j Xoyrp yiyverai, Kal fidX' iy)((opel
Tavrrj yiyvecrOai rd vvv epyo) firjv orav yiyvrjrat,,
ravT e/jLTTpoaOei' rSiv ydfjiwv, idv Oe6<; iOeXrj,
C 7roir](Tavre<ieKelva rjhrj rare eirl irdai rol^ roiov-
Toi<i aTTOTeXovp-ev. vvv he povov oaov rivd tvttov
avTcov Bt 6Xiyu)v eireêXOoypbev.
KA. Tldvv p,ev ovv.
A0. Ta p,ev Tolvvv lepd irdaav Trepi^ ti]v tc
dyopdv 'xpr) KaraaKCvdêiv, Kal rr)v ttoXcv oXrjv
iv kvkXo) 7rpo<i rot? yi^j^Xoi? rojv rorrcov, evepKeLa<i
re Kal KaOaponiro^ ')(^dpiv' Trpo<i he avTolf ol-
Kijaei'i re dp-^^ôvrcov Kal hiKacrrt'jpia,^ iv 0I9
Ta? hi,Kav <^6vcov irpeTrovaat hiKai
yiyvoivr dv Kal ocra davdrwv dîa dhtKi]fiara.
^ dtKarrrvpia Burges : StKaffrtiplMV MSS.
* [SiKacTtipta, iv ols] bracketed by England.
478
LAWS, BOOK VI
harder both for themselves, as rulers, and for their
slaves, as subject to rule.
CLIN. That is true.
ATH. Suppose, then, that we are now, to the
best of our power, provided with servants sufficient
in number and quality to assist in every kind of
task, should we not, in the next place, describe our
dwellings ?
ATH. It would seem that our city, being new and
houseless hitherto, must provide for practically the
whole of its house-building, arranging all the details
of its architecture, including temples and walls.
These things are really, Clinias, prior to marriage
but since our construction is now a verbal one, this
is a very suitable place to deal with them ; when
we come to the actual construction of the State,
we shall, (jod willing, make the houses precede
marriage, and crown all our architectural work with
our marriage-laws. For the present we shall con-
fine ourselves to a brief outline of our building
regulations.
cuN. Certainly.
ATH. The temples we must erect all round the
market-place, and in a circle round the whole city,
on the highest spots, for the sake of ease in fencing
them and of cleanliness beside the temples we will
:
set the houses of the officials and the law-courts, in

which, as being most holy places, they will give and
receive judgments, —
partly because therein they deal
with holy matters, and partly because they are the
seats of holy gods and in these will fittingly be
:
held trials for murder and for all crimes worthv of
479
PLATO
Trepl Be ret^wv, w Me7tX,Xe, 670)7' av rfi îrdpTr)
^VfxipepoLfirjv to KaOevSeiv idv iv rfj yfj fcara-
Kei/jieva ra reixv fô,! fit) iiravta-Tavat, rcovSe
eiveKU. Ka\(0<; fiev koI 6 ttoltjtiko^ virep avrwv
\o70? vfivelraL, rb ')(CL\.Ka koI atSrjpd Setv elvat,
E ra T€L^r] jiidWov r) y/fiva' to S' ij/xeTepov cti
TTpo'iTOVTOfi yiXayT av SiKaica 7rd/i7ro\w 0^X01,
TO KUT eviavTov fiev eKTrifiTreip eli ')(a)pa<i ovk
id(TOVTa<i iinQaiveiv, Telô^ Be TvepvâXoip.eda,
TrpoiTov fxev Trpo<i liyieiav rat? iroXeaiv ov8a/JLa)<;
(TVfKpepei, Trpo? Be Tiva fiaXdaKrjv eîv Tai^ yjrv)(âl^
TOiv evoLKOvvTwv cccoOe TToieiv, TTpoKaXovfievov el (ppovpelv del Tiva^ iv avTrj vvKTwp
Kol fied^ ijfjiipav, tovtw Tr}<} ait)TT]pia<{ Tvy^d-
veiv, Tctêcrt koI TrvXai'i Btavoeladai <^pa-
Be
p^êt'Ta? T€ Kot Ka6evBovTa<; acoTrjpLa^ ovTU)<i eêiv
ixri-)(avd^, to? eVl to fiij irovelv yeyovoTw;, dyvo-
ovvTa<i 5' av tt^v paaTcopyjv, eo9 6vT(o<i ecTiv €«
T&v iroviov eK paaT(i)VT}<; Be ye, olfutt, Trj^ accr^pd<i
oi TTOvoi Koi padvfXLa<i ireîVKacn yiyvecrdai irdXiv
a\X' el Btj Tel')(o<i ye ti xP^^^ dvOpcoTroi.^ elvai,
B Ta9 olKoBofila<i XPV "^^^ '^^^ IBlwv olxTjaewv ovTQ)<i
e^ apXTj") ^dXXecrdai, ottox; av rj it da a rj 7ro\ts
ev Tet;^09, op-aXoTrjTl re Kal ofioioTrjaiv et<i Ta<i
6Bov<i TratTcbv tq)v olK7]aecov exovacov evepKeiav
» Unknown. Cp. Arist. Pol. 1330" 32 flf., and the saying of

Lycurgus (quoted by Plutarch, Lyairg. xix.) ovk &y fin
aTfixtCTos 'ir6\is Uns avSpdffi oh ir\lt/6on (aTe(pdya>Tat. " Earth
480
LAWS, BOOK VI
death. As to walls, Megillus, I would agree with
your Sparta in letting the walls lie sleeping in the
ground, and not wake them up, and that for the
following reasons. It is a fine saying of the poet,^
and often repeated, that walls should be made of
bronze and iron rather than of earth. But our plan,
in addition to this, would deserve to raise roars of
laughter, —
I mean the plan of sending young men
into the country every year to dig and trench and
build, so as to keep the enemy out^ and prevent
their ever setting foot on the borders of the land
if we were also to build a wall round for, in the
;
first place, a wall is by no means an advantage to

a city as regards health, and, moreover, it usually
causes a soft habit of soul in the inhabitants, by
inviting them to seek refuge within it instead of
repelling the enemy ; instead of securing their
safety by keeping watch night and day, it tempts
them to believe that their safety is ensured if they
are fenced in with walls and gates and go to sleep,
like men born to shirk toil, little knowing that ease
is really the fruit of toil, whereas a new crop of toils
is the inevitable outcome, as I think, of dishonour-
able ease and sloth. But if men really must have a

wall, then the building of the private houses must
be arranged from the start in such a way that the
whole city may form a single wall all the houses
;
must have good walls, built regularly and in a similar

style, facing the roads,^ so that the whole city will
(like ir\iv6oi) here means really "stone," the soil of Greece

being rocky.
• Cp. 760 E.
* These "roads" (or streets) would divide the city into
blocks, surrounded by continuous walls formed by the outer

circle of houses, all of the same size and shape.
481
VOL. I. R
PLATO
IBeiv re ovk arjSeii fj,id^ olKia<? ^ av /jLevrj ^ to, kut ap^â^; oIko-
SofirjOei/ra, /xeXeiv fiaXtara TOi<i ivoiKovcri
fiev
C Trpiirov av etrj, Toy? he aarvvofiov; eiripeXeladaL
Kal 7rpoaavayKd!ôvTa<; rov oXiyropovvTa ^rjpi-
ovvra^, Kal iravrcov Sr) roiv Kara to aarv Ka-
daporriToî r iTripeXeiadai, Kal ottco? l8icoTr]<;
fjLr]Bel<; fir)Bev tmv t^9 7roXe&>9 /i?;Te olKoBopr]p,aat
firfTe ovv 6pv'^p,a<TLv eiriXrjylreTai. Kal St) Kal

vScLTcov Ta>v €K Aio'i €vpola irpeTTov
y^peuiv,
av OLKelv etr). ravra Se irdvra ^vvtSovTa Tat?
D 'y^peiai'i ol vopbo^v\aKe<; eirivofiodeTovvTcov Kai
TMV aXkcov oirocra av 6 v6/j.o<; e'/cXeiTr?; 8i diroptav.
ore 8e ravra re Kal ra irepl d<yopav oiKoBopripLara
Kal ra rrepl ra yvp^vdcna Kal irdvra oaa BiSaa-
KaXela KareaKevacr p.eva 'rrepip.evei rov<; (f)Oirrjra^
Kal 0eard<; Oearpa, iropevdipeda iirl rd fxerd rov<i
iyd/jiov(;, rr]<i vofio6eal,a<: e^rj<i exofievoi.
KA. Yidvv fxev ovv.
A&. Tdfioi fiev roivvv rjfuv earwaav jeyovore'i,
Si KXeivCa' Slaira 8e irpo iraiSoyovia'; ovk i\ar-
E rcov evLavaia<i 'yi'yvoir av ro pxrd rovro, rjv 8r}

riva rpoTTOv XPV Kv^ vv/j,(f)L0v Kal vvp,^r)v iv
TToXei Siacfiepovar) roiv ttoWcov ecropevr), ro Bt}
T&v vvv elpr]/jLevQ)v eôpievov elirelv, ov iravraiv

evKoXforarov, dWd
ovrcov ovk oXiywv ro)v e/i-
trpoaOev roiovrcov rovro en eKeivcov rwv ttoWmv
hvcT'xepecrrepov dTrohe')(êa6at r& irXrjdei. ro ye
» i>s Burnet : ?«i MSS.
482
LAWS, BOOK VI
have the form of a single house, which will render
its a^jpearanee not unpleasing, besides being far and
away the best plan for ensuring safety and ease for
defence. To see that the original buildings remain
will fittingly be the special charge of the inmates
and the city-stewards should supervise them, and
compel by fines those who are negligent, and also
watch over the cleanliness of everything in the city,
and prevent any private person from encroaching
on State property either by buildings or diggings.
These officers must also keep a watch over the
proper flowing of the rain-water, and over all other
matters, whether within or without the city, that it
is right for them to manage. All such details and —
all else that the lawgiver is unable to deal with
—
and omits the Law-wardens shall regulate by sup-
plementary decrees, taking account of the practical
requirements. And now that these buildings and
those of the market-place, and the gymnasia, and
all the schools have been erected and await their
inmates, and the theatres their spectators, let us
proceed to the subject which comes next after
marriage, taking our legislation in order.
CLIN. By all means.
ATH. Let us regard the marriage ceremony as
now completed, Clinias next will come the period
;
before child-birth, which will extend to a full year

how the bride and bridegroom ought to pass this
time in a State that will be unlike most other
States,— that is to be our next theme, and it is not
the easiest of things to explain we have uttered
;
not a few hard sayings before, but none of them

all will the mass find harder to accept than this.
/t€»^ Schneider : fiev ^ MSS.

483
PLATO
firjv SoKovv opdov Kal dXrjde^ eivuL irdvrws
py]T€ov, 0) KXeivCa.
KA. Tldvv f.L€V ovv.

A0. '
OcTTt?
hiavoeiTat iroXeaiv uTrocfiaLve
hi)
780 aOai v6/mov^, Srj/jLoaia /cat Koiva avTov<;
tttj to,
XPV Kv^ irpdrrovTa'i, tmi> Se lSicov oaov dvdyKrj

firjBe oterai Betv, iôvalav he eKdaroc; elvai rrjv
rj/j-epav otto)? dv ideXrj, /cal /xt] irduTa hid
^fjv
Tttê&)9 heivyiyveaBac, 7rpo€/jLevo<; he tu thia dvofio-
deTTjTU rjyelrai rd ye Koivd kol hrjfioaia eOeXrjaeiv
avTOVi ^7]v hia vofioyv, ovk 6p9oi<; hiavoelrai.
TLVo<; ht) %«/3ti' ravra ecptjrai ; rovhe, on (fiyaofiev
helv rjfilv tov? vvfi<îov<i pbrjhev hia<f)€p6vT0)<; firjhe
TjTTov ev ^va(Tnloi<;rrjv hiairav iroLelcrdaL rod
B TTpo rSiv yajMav y^povov yevofievov. koX tovto
fiev hrj dav/jLaarov bv ore Kar dpxa<; rrpcorov
iyevero ev rot? Trap* iifilv roTroi^, TroXefiov ru>o<i
avro, (W9 7' €Ik6<;, vopLoderrjaavro^; rj rivo<; erepov
rrjv avr-qv hvvafiiv eyovro^ irpdypLaro^ ev oXiyav-
6panrlaL<i vrro ttoXX^? aTropias e\oixevoL<i' yev-
aajievoi^ he Kal dvayKaadelai 'XP^craaOaL rot?
^vaairloi^ ehoê fxeya hrj êpeiv ^ el<; awTrjpiav
C TO vo/xifiov, Kal KareaTT) hrj rporrw rivl roiovrfp
TO eTnrrjhev p.a vfilv ro rcov ^vaairiwv.
KA. "EofATg yovv.
A0. 'Ô hrj eXeyov, on davp.acrrov ov tovto
TTOTe Kal (jioêpov eTrcrdâi rial vvv ov'X^ 6/xol(ofpeiv: Statpt. y MSS. {(ptpetv e\. Schanz)
» Cp. 821 A ; £pist. 7. 330 A,
484
LAWS, BOOK VI
All the same, what we believe to be right and true
must by all means be stated,^ Clinias.
CLIN. Certainly.
ATH. Whoever proposes to publish laws for
States, regulating the conduct of the citizens in
State affairs and public matters, and deems that
there is no need to make laws for their private
conduct, even in necessary matters, but that every-
one should be allowed to spend his day just as he
pleases, instead of its being compulsory for every-
thing, public and private, to be done by a regular
rule, and supposes that, if he leaves private conduct
unregulated by law, the citizens will still consent
to regulate their public and civil life by law, this —
man is wrong in his proposal. For what reason
have I said this ? For this reason, because we —
shall assert that the mîrried people must take their
meals at the public messes neither more nor less
than they did during the time preceding marriage.
When the customs of the public mess first arose in
—
your countries probably dictated by a war or by
some event of equal potency, when you were short
of men and in dire straits, —
it seemed an astonishing
institution ; but after you had had experience of
these public messes and had been obliged to adopt
them, the custom seemed to contribute admirably
towards security and in some such way as that
;
the public mess came to be one of your established

institutions.-
CLiN. That is likely enough.
ATH. So, though this was once, as I said, an
astonishing and alarming institution to impose on
people, a man who tried to impose it as a law nowa-
- Cp. Ar. Pol. 1272* 2 ff.
48s
PLATO
T& av eirj vofjuodereiv avTo.
'irpo(ndrTOVTt,hvcr')(€pe<;
TO 3' e^rjq
tovtw, 7re<^f aco? re 6p65)<i av yi'yveadaL
ytyvofievov, vvv re ovSafifj jiyvofjLepov, oXiyov [re] ^
TTOiovv rov voixoderrjv, to ro)v iraiôvroav, el<;
TTvp âiveiv KoX fxvpia erepa roiavra avrjvvra
D TTOVovvra ^ Spav, ov paSiov ovr elirelv ovr el-rTovra
aiToreXelv.
KA. Tt hr) rovro, w êve, e'iri')(eLpMV Xiyeiv
eoiKa^ (T(f)6Bpa airoKvelv ;
Ae. 'A-Kovoir^ av, iva firj Siarpt^t) ttoXXt)
yiyvrjrat irepl rovr avro irdv fiev yap 6 /jLarrjv.
ri nrep av rdêco^ Kal vofiov êre'xpv iv rroXei
yiyvrjrai iravra dyada direpydiêrat, rayv Be
drdKrwv 7) rcav KaKw<i raÔevroov Xvei rd TroXXd
r&v ev rerayfievwv dXXa erepa, hrj Kal vvv
€(f)earr}Ke trepl ^ ro Xeyofievov. v/xlv ydp, <5

E KXeivia Kal MêytXXe, rd p,ev vepl rov<; dvSpaf
^vaalrca KaXo)^ dfia Kal oirep eliTov dav/xad-rcoî
KaOearrjKev €K OeCa^ rivo^ dvdyKr]<;, ro Be irepl
Ta9 yvvatKa^ ovBap.S)<s 6pd(ov dvOpcoTrcov Xadpaiorepov fidXXov
Kal eiTtKXoTrdirepov €<pv, to BfjXv, Bid ro
dadeve<i, ovk 6pdoi<i rovro eiâvro^; rov vo/xoderov
Bva-raKrov ov dcêiOrj. Bid Be rovrov fxedeifievov
iroXXd vfitv rrapeppei, iroXv d/xeivov av e-ôvra
el vofxcov erv')(ev rj rd vvv ov ydp rjixiav fiovov
icrriv, OD<i Boêiev dv, ro irepl rd<i yvvatKa's aKoa-
«
• * [t*] bracketed by Badham, England.
' irovovvTa Ast, Schanz iroiovvTa MSS. :
* % . . . irepl: oS . . . WptMSS., edd. (Tctpa Badham).
486
LAWS, BOOK VI
days would not find it an equally difficult task. But
the practice which follows on this institution, and
which, if carried out, would be really successful,
although at present it nowhere is carried out, and
so causes the lawgiver (if he tries) to be practically
carding his wool (as the proverb has it) into the fire,
and labouring in vain at an endless tale of toils,
this practice it is neither easy to state nor, when
stated, to carry into effect.
CLIN. Why do you show so much hesitation.
Stranger, in mentioning this ?
ATM. Listen now, so that we may not spend much
time on the matter to no purpose. Everything that
takes place in the State, if it participates in order
and law, confers all kinds of blessings; but most
things that are either without order or badly-ordered
counteract the effects of the well-orderedl And it
is into this plight that the practice we are discussing
has fallen. In your case, Clinias and Megillus,

public meals for men are, as I said, rightly and
admirably established by a divine necessity, but for
women this institution is left, quite wrongly, un-
prescribed by law, nor are public meals for them
brought to the light of day; instead of this, the
female sex, that very section of humanity which,
OM'ing to its frailty, is in other respects most
secretive and intriguing, is abandoned to its dis-
orderly condition through the perverse compliance
of the lawgiver. Owing to your neglect of that
sex, you have had an influx of many consequences
which would have been much better than they now
are if they had been under legal control. For it is
not merely, as one might suppose, a matter affecting
one-half of our whole task —
this matter of neglecting
48?
PLATO
B fjirjToo'i Trepiopco/xevov, oaw he
drfkeia rjiuv <j)vai';
rj
iari trpb^ dperrjv yeipwv

t5)v appivcoi Trj<i
TOcrovTO) Biaîpei tt/Oo? to irXeov r) ripaav ^ elvai.

Tovr ovv eTravaXa/Seiv koI €TTavop6(ocracrdai kuI
Travra avvrdâadai KOivfj <yvvaL^l re Kal dv-
opdaiv eiTLTr^hevp.aTa êXriov 7rp6<i TroXecof evBai-
poviav. vvv he ovtco<; rJKrac to tmv dvdpcoTrwi'
jevo<i ovhapoi<i eh tovto evrv)(ô}f;, cocrre ovh'e
p,pr)<Tdrji'ai irepX avrov ev dXkoL<i <y ecrrl tottoi';
C Kal vovv ex,ovTo<;, ottov prjhe ^vcra'nia
TToXecrc
v'TTap)(eiTO rrapdirav hehoypeva /card iroXiv elvai.
iroOev h-q Ti? 7e ep<y(p p,^ KarajeXdaTOO'i eTTi'êi-
ptjaei <yuvaiKa<i irpocrîdêa-dai ttjv crtTtwi^ Kal
TTOTOiv avdXwaiv (pavepdv decopelaOai ; tovtov
yap ovK eariv o ti x^^Xeircorepov av VTTopîvete
TOVTO TO yevo^' etOiapevov yap hehvK6<; Kal ctko-
reivov ^fjv, dyop^vov 8' et? 0(W9 /Sto irdcrav
dvTiTaaiv dvTireiPov, ttoXu KpaTtjaei tov vop,o-
D 6eTov TovT ovv dXXodt pev, rjirep elirov, ovh^ av
TOV Xoyov VTTopeiveie tov opOov prjOevra dvev
TrdcTT}^ evddhe he l'a(oa>v ^vvBokcI dKOveiv
el he p,7], eav.
KA. 'AX,V, <w êve, davpaarS)^ to ye dKovaai
V(pv 7rdvTci)<i rrov ^vvhoKcl.
A0. ^ A.Kovwpev hr). davpd<jt]Te he p,T)hev idv
vpiv dvcoOev TTodev em-xeipelv ho^w (j'x,oXr]<i yap
E diroXavopev Kal ovhev i)pd<; ecrrl to KaTeirelyov to
p,T] irdvTrj TrdvTco^ aKOirelv to Tvepl rov'i v6pov<i,
^ ^Htffv : îvKactov MSS., edd. (cp. 767 E),

488
LAWS, BOOK VI
to regulate —
women, but in as far as females are
inferior ingoodness to males, just in so far it affects
more than the half. It is better, then, for the
welfare of the State to revise and reform this insti-
tution, and to regulate all the institutions for both
men and women in common. At present, however,
the human race is so far from having reached this
happv that a man of discretion must actu-
jKJsition,
ally avoid allmention of the practice in districts and
States where even the existence of public meals is
absolutely without any formal recognition. How
then shall one attempt, without being laughed at,
actually to compel women to take food and drink
publicly and exposed to the view of all .-
The
female sex would more readUy endure anything
rather than this accustomed as they are to live r.
:
retired and private life, women will use every means

to resist being led out into the light, and they will
prove much too strong for the lawgiver. So that
elsewhere, as I said, women would not so much as
listen to the mention of the right rule without
shrieks of indignation ; but in our State perhaps
they will. So if we agree that our discourse about
—
the jxjlity as a whole must not so far as theory
—
goes prove abortive, I am willing to explain how
this institution is good and fitting, if you are equally
desirous to listen, but otherwise to leave it alone.
CLIN. Nay, Stranger, we are both inexpressibly
desirous to listen.
ATH. Let us listen, then. And do not be sur-
prised if you find me taking the subject up again
from an early point. For we are now enjoWng
leisure, and there is no pressing reason to hinder us
from considering laws from all possible points of view.
48$
PLATO
KA. 'Op^fti? etprjKWi.
A0. UdXiv roivvv iirl ra irpSira i'Trava')((o-
prjcrwfxev \e')(devra. eS lyap Bt) to ye roaovrov

-X^pr] TrdvT dvhpa ^vvvoeiv, (09 r) rSiv dvOpcoTrav
<yevecn<; 77 to "jrapdirav dp')(r)V ovScfiCav eCkij-yêv
782 oyS' eêt 7roT€ 76 reKevrrjv, dXhS rjv re del koX

earai irdvra)^, rj fiyKo^ ti [t^9 dp^rjii] ^ d<\i ov
yeyovev d/iii]')(âvov [av Xpovov] ^ oaov yeyovo'i av
eir).
KA. Tt jJLrjv ;
A®. Tt ovv ; TToXetov (TvarTda-ei^ Kal ^6opd<;

Kal eTnrrjBev/iara iravrola rd^€(o<: re Kal dra^Lw;
Kal ^pcoa€(o<i ^ (koI irco/judTcov re dfia Kal ^pcofidrfov)
iTTiOvfMij/xara iravrohaird irdpTco'; Kal irepl iraaav
rrjv yrjv dp* ouk olofieOa yeyovkvai, Kal crTpo(f)d<;
wpwv TravTOta^, iv al? rd ^(oa fiera^dWeiv avr&i

P> 7rap,7r\r]dei<; fxeraôXd^ elKo<i ;
KA. IIw? yap ov ;
Ae. Tt ovv ; iriaTevofMev dfnre\ov<; re âvrjvai

TTOV TTore irporepov ovk ovaa * XPovfjp)
fiS)v OVK olofxeda rd ôja, Kaddirep vvv, eirl rrjv
dW^Xoyv eBwBrjv rpenea-Bat, ;
KA. Tt fjL'qv ;
1 [rrjs apxvs] bracketed by Ast.

' [&»' XP^"""} I bracket (xp^fov Ast).
490
LAWS, BOOK VI
CUN. Very true.
ATH. Let us, then, revert again to our first state-
ments.^ Thus much at least every man ought to
—
understand, that either the human race never had
a beginning at all, and will never have an end, but
always was and always will be, or else it must have
been in existence an incalculable length of time from
the date when it first began.
CLIN. Undoubtedly.
ATH. Well then, do we
not suppose that all the
world over and in of ways there have been
all sorts
risings and fallings of States, and institutions of
every variety of order and disorder, and appetites
for food — —
both meats and drinks of every kind,
and all sorts of variations in the seasons, during
which it is probable that the animals underwent
innumerable changes ?
CLIN. Certainly.
ATH. Are we to believe, then, that vines, not
previously existing, appeared at a certain stage ; and
^
olives, likewise, and the gifts of Demeter and Kore ?
And that some Triptolemus was the minister of such
fruits ? And during the period that these fruits
were as yet non-existent, must we not suppose that
the animals turned, as they do now, to feeding on
one another.
CLIN. Of course,
1 676Aflf.
* Or Persephone, daughter of the Earth-mother, Demeter.
Triptolemus was a mythical hero of Eleusis, worshipped as
the inventor and patron of agriculture.
* Ast and Schanz brsMiket koI Pfxiffeui I mark the next

:
six words as parenthetic (<rTpw/uaT«v for ^paiixaraiv Apelt).

* »« England rif MSS.
:
491
PLATO
C A0. To Be fxr]v dveiv avdp(07rov<; a\,\i]\ov<; en
Koi vvv irapafievov opw/xev 7roWoi<;' Kal rovvav-
TLOV aKOvo/iiev ev aWoi^, ore ovhe ôo<i iroXficov
fiev ^ yeveadai dvixard re ovk rjv toU deolcri ^wa,
ireKavoi he /cal /xeXni Kapirol SeSev/xevoi Kal
TOiavra aXXa dyva Ovfiara, crapK&v 8' airei'xôvTO
<W9 ou;^ oaiov ov iadieiv ovhe tov<; rwv dewv 0a>fwv<;
atfiari /xtaiveiv, dWa Ôp(f)CKoC rive^ Xeyofievoi
^loi iyiyvovTo rjpbSiv Toi<; totc, dylrv)(^(i)V jiiev
D ixô/xevot iravTcov, e/u,yp-v)(^cov he rovvavriov ttuvtcov

aTreôfievoi.
KA. Kat a(p6hpa Xeyofieva a y eipr]Ka<i, koli
TTLareveadaL iridavd.
A0. 11/009 ovv hr) Tt ravra, etiroi rt? av, vfilv
irdvT ipprjOr) rd vvv ;
KA. 'Opdo)^ vTreXaâ, Si êve.
A0. Kai TOLVvv, idv hvvco/xai, rd rovTOipdêcv.
KA. Aeyoif; dv.

A0. 'Opoi irdvra to?9 dvdpcoTroi<; e« t/cxttt}?
')(peCaq Kal i7n6v/xla<; rjprrj/jLeva, hi mv dpeTrj re
E avTolvrov epcora eôv, jxearov otarpov r ecrn Kal
dvT]KovarLa<i rov Xeyovro^ dWo ri helv irpdrretv
rrXr^v to? 'qhovd'i Kal eiriOv/iLa^ rd<; jrepl drravra
*
ravra diroirX.'qpovvra'i ^ \v7rr]<; tt)? dTrdarjf; dphr)v
783 (T^dniv MSS.

" airoTTXriPovvras : wnoTrKfipovvra MSS,, ^dd*
49'
LAWS, BOOK VI
ATH, of men sacrificing one another
The custom
is, one that survives even now among many
in fact,
peoples whereas amongst others we hear of how
;
the opposite custom existed, when they were for-

bidden so much as to eat an ox, and their offerings
to the gods consisted, not of animals, but of cakes of
meal and grain steeped in honey, and other such
bloodless sacrifices, and from flesh they abstained as
though it were unholy to eat it or to stain with
blood the altars of the gods instead of that, those;
of us men who then existed lived what is called an

" Orphic life," keeping wholly to inanimate food and,
contrariwise, abstaining wholly from things animate.
CLIN, Certainly what you say is widely reported
and easy to credit.
ATH. Someone might ask us " For what pur-
"
—
pose have you now said all this?
A correct surmise. Stranger.
CLIN.
ATH. So I will try, if I can, Clinias, to explain
the subject which comes next in order.
CLIN. Say on.
ATH. I observe that with men all things depend
on a threefold need and desire, wherein if they pro-
ceed rightly, the result is goodness, if badly, the
opposite. Of
these desires they possess those for
food and drink as soon as they are bom and about ;
the whole sphere of food every creature has an

instinctive lust, and is full of craving, and quite deaf
to any suggestion that they ought to do anything
else than satisfy their tastes and desires for all
such objects, and thus rid themselves entirely of all
pain. Thirdly comes our greatest need and keenest
* ipiriy : id Sctr MSS. (Ast bracket* Sth)
493
PLATO
ypeta Koi epco^ o^vTaTO<i v<naTO<i fikv opfidrai,
SiaTTVpcoTCLTOv^ Sc Toi'9 av6 pwTTOv^ fiaviat^; airep-
ya^€Tac irdvrw'i, o irepX rrjv lov yevov<; arropav
v^pei irXeicrry Kaofi€vo<i. a Br) Bel rpla voarjjxara
rpeirovTa^^ ei? to êXTiarov irapa ro Xeyopêvov
rjSiaTOV rpial fiev rotf fxeyiaroi^ ireipaaOai,
KaT€^€iv, (f)6^q) Kol TW aXrjOel Xoyw,
Kul v6p.(p
irpoa-x^pcofievovf; fiivTOi Movaai'i re koI aywvloiai
6eoiT}v koX iratBelav. kol rd')^
av ovTco irpolovTcov rwv Xoytov 6 re v6/xo ^ eirl
^vacTiTia -qvLK av d(îK(i)p,eda, Ta<i TOiavTa<i
Koivwvia^ eXre dpa yvvaiKOiv elre dvBpcov Bel
fxovcov yiyvecrOai, irpoap-iâvTe^ avTol<; iyyvdev
L(Ta)<; fidWov KaToyfrofieda, rd re eiriTrpoadev
avTcov, vvv ovra dvo/JLoderrjTa, rdâvre'i aWa
en
C eTTirrpoaOev TroiTjao/xeda, Kol oirep eppijOr] vvv Bi],
KUTO'ôfiedd T€ avrd aKpiêcmpov fiaXXov re
TOI'9 7rpocn]KovTa<: avTOi<i Kal rr peirovra'i vo/mov^
dv deirjfjLev.
KA. Ôpdorara Xeyei<i.
^vXd^co/jLev Toivvv TTJ /xvyj/irj t^ vvv Bt)
A0.
Xe)(9evra' La-Q)<i yap '^pelav iror avTtov TrdvTtov
eô/xev.
KA. Ta TTOta Brj BiaKeXevei
A0. '
A Tot? rpcal
BieopiôfieOa pijfxaar ^paxriv
fj,€veXeyofiev ttov, Kal Bevrepov iroaiv, Kal d<f)po-
D Bicricov Be riva Biatrrorjaiv rpirov,
1 rptirovTcs Stephens Tpeirovra MSS.

:
^ ^'C£'")> I add, and read rjvW &«/ a<piKcl>Mt6a for rivina afiKifit-
6a of MSS (Zur. and Aid. add tls after aix6fie0a),
494
LAWS, BOOK VI
lust, which, though the latest to emerge, influences
the soul of men with most raging frenzy the lust
for the sowing of offspring that burns with utmost
—
violence. These three morbid states^ we must direct
towards what is most good, instead of what is
(nominally) most pleasant, trying to check them by
means of the three greatest forces fear, law, and —
true reasoning, —
reinforced by the Muses and the
Gods of Games, so as to quench thereby their in-
crease and inflow.
So let us place the subject of the production of
children next after that of marriage, and after their
production, their nurture and education. If our dis-
course proceeds on these lines, possibly each of our
laws will attain completion, and when we come to the
public meals, by approaching these at close quarters
we shall probably discern more clearly whether such
associations ought to be for men only, or for women
as well and thus we shall not only prescribe the
;
preliminaries that are still without legal regulation,

and place them as fences before the common meals,
but also, as I said just now, we shall discuss more
exactly the character of the common meals, and thus
be more likely to prescribe for them laws that are
suitable and fitting.
CLIN. You are perfectly right.
ATH. Let us, then, bear in mind the things we
mentioned a moment ago ; for probably we shall
need them all presently,
CLIN. \\ hat are the things you bid us remember?
ATH. Those we distinguished by the three terms
we used we spoke, you recollect, of eating, secondly
:
of drinking, and thirdly of sexual excitement.

1 The soul is in a "diseased " state
when wholly dominated
by any irrational desire or passion.
495
PLATO
KA. TIdvTa)<;, oi êve, fiefiviâofJiedd ttov 0)v to.

vvv BiaKeXevei.
A0. K<2\w9. eXdwfiev h cttI ra vv/j,(piKd,
BiBdôvTea Tpoirov
rov<t 7raiBa<; TroielaOac, kcu iav dpa /jlt) Treidoy/iiev,
dTTeCkrjaovre^ riac v6fj,oi<i.
KA. IIco? ;
A0. l>lv/u,(f)r)v )(^pri Bcavo€ia0ac Kol vvfi<îov to?
on KaWi(7Tov<i kol dpLcrrov<i eh 8vva/xiv aTroBei-

E ôpevov^ TTatSa? rfj TroXci. Travre^ o' dvOptoiroi,
KOLVwvol Trdar)^ Trpdêco^;, rjviKa pev av Trpoaexf^-
criv avTolL0<; T^ re vvp,(f>T} Koi rfj TraiBoTroiLo. tov vovv,

Kara ravrd Be Kal 17 vvp,(f)r}, tovtov top ')(povov
8ia(f)ep6vTa)<; ov av p,r]TTa) 7rai8e<; avTOi'i wen yeyo-
784 2^0T69. eiTLCfKO'TTOL S' eaTcoaav tovtcov a? ei\6p,eda
yvvaiKef, TrXetou? etr e\dTTOv<;, rot? dpôvaiv
OTToaa? dv Sokj} irpoardTretv re Kal oirorav, irpo^
TO T'^S" WiXeiGvias lepov eKdcrrr]? rjp,epas ^vXXe-
y6p,€vaL pêxp'' Tpirov piepovs [(x)pas], ^ ol St) ovXXe-
ydelcrai BLayyeWovrcov dXX.i]\ai<i ei Tt9 Ttva opa
•Trpo<i aX-V aTra ^Xeirovra dvSpa rj Kal yvvaiKa
Toi)V TraiBoTToiovp,eva)V rj irpof rd Teraypêva vtto
TMV ev TOi<i ydp,0L^ OuaLcov re Kal lepwv yevop,evci)v.

B rj Be iraiBoTTOiia Kal (j)v\aKi] rcbv 7raiBo7roiovp,evci)v
Se«eTt? ecrray, p,r) irXeLQ) Be ')(^p6vov, orav evroia ^
rrj<i yeveae(a<;.. dv Be dyovoC Tive^ eh tovtov
yiyvcovTab tov ')(p6vov, p.era tcov oiKeiayv Ka-
1 [ojpas] I bracket.
^ Goddess of childbirth.
496
LAWS, BOOK VI
CLIN. We shall certainly remember the things
you now bid us. Stranger.
ATM. Very good. Let us now come to the
nuptials, so as to instruct them how and in what
manner they ought to produce children, and, if we
fail to persuade them, to threaten them by certain
laws.
CLIN, How ?
ATH. The bride and bridegroom must set their
minds to produce for the State children of the
greatest possible goodness and beauty. All people
that are partners in any action produce results that
are fair and good whensoever they apply their minds
to themselves and the action, but the opposite
results when either they have no minds or fail to
apply them. The bridegroom, therefore, shall apply
his mind both to the bride and to the work of pro-
creation, and the bride shall do likewise, especially
during the period when they have no children yet
born. In charge of them there shall be the women-
inspectors whom we have chosen, —more or fewer of
them, according to the number and times of their
appointments, decided by the officials and they ;
shall meet every day at the temple of Eileithyia,^ fur,

at the most, a third part [of the day] ^ and at their
;
meetings they shall report to one another any case

they may have noticed where any man or woman of
the procreative age is devoting his attention to other
things instead of to the rules ordained at the
marriage sacrifices and ceremonies. The period of
procreation and supervision shall be ten years and no
longer, whenever there is an abundant issue of off-
spring ; but in case any are without issue to the end
of this period, they shall take counsel in common to
* I.e., presumably, for as much as 8 hours when necessary.
497
PLATO
dpxovacov <yvvaiicSiv 8iaêvyvua-0ai Koivfj jSovXevo-
fievov^ etf TO, Trpocrcôpa eKarepoc<;. iav 8' a/j,(f)i-
<r^t]TT]al<; ti? yiyvrjTai irepX tmv eKurepocî trpeirov-
Toov Kal 7rpo(r<f)6pa)v, BeKU tmv vop,o(f)vXdKQ)V eXo-
G /xevov<i, ol'i av eTTiTpe-^coaiv oXh^ fj ^ Ta^coai, rovTOL<;
i/nfieveiv. eia-tovaai 8' et?
ra? olKia^ rcov vecov al
'yvvalKe<;, ra fikv vovderoixrai, ra he koX direi-
Xovaat TravovTcov avTOv<; t^? dp,apTLa<i koI dp.a-
6ia<;' iav 8' dSwarcoa-L, Trpo? tov<; vopo(f}v\aKa<i
loixTai (f)pa^6vTcov, ol 8 elpyovTwv. dv 8e Koi
SKelvoL 7ra)9 d8vvaTi](Tcoac, 7rpo9 to 8r}p,6aiov diru-
(prjvdvTwv, dvaypdyp-avri^ re kcu opLOcravre^ rj pr)v
dhwarelv top Kal top /SeXTtw iroieiv 6 8e
D dvaypacfiel'i dTCfio fi7]Te et? ra? twi/ Traihwv eTnTeXeicocrei^, dv Se
irj, 7rXr)yai<i 6 ôvX7]6eL<i dda)o<i avrov KoXaêTCO.
rd avrd 8e kuI irepl yvvaiKo<; ecrrct) voptfia' r&v

iôhcov yap tmv yvvatKeLcov Kal ripûtv Kal roiv el<i
TOv<i yd/j,ov<; Kal yevedXia ^ rwv iraihwv (ôirrja-ecov
fiT] /xerex^Td), iav aKoa/xovaa Q)aavTa)<s dvaypa<f)'!]
Kal fiT) eXrj rrjv 8iKr]V.
E "Orav 8e 8r) 7ral8a'i yevvrja-covrai KarcL vofiovf,
idv dXXorpia ti^ irepl rd roiavra kolvoovt] yvvaixl
rj yvvT] dvhpi, idv fiev •rrai8o7roiovp,evoi<; en, ra
avrd iiriîjfiia avroi^ earco Kaddrrep rol^ en
yevvcopevoii; e'iprjrar jxerd 8e ravra o fxev (X(i}(f)po-
vcov Kal crQ)(f)povovcra el<i rd roiavra earco rrdvra
€v86KifjiO<i, 6 Se rovvavriov ivavr(,o)<i rifidaOo),
» o?5' tj Ritter : oJSe MSS. : ol Se koI Zur., vulg.

* yfvf6\ta Burnet : ytv^ffia MSS.
498
LAWS, BOOK VI
decide what terms are advantageous for both parties,
in conjunction witli their kindred and the women-
officials, and be divorced. If any dispute arises as
to what is fitting and advantageous for each party,
thej shall choose ten of the Law-wardens, and abide
by the regulations they shall permit or impose.
The women-inspectors shall enter the houses of the
young people, and, partly by threats, partly by
admonition, stop them from their sin and folly if :
they cannot do so, they shall go and report the case

to the Law-wardens, and they shall prevent them.
If they also prove unable, they shall inform the State
Council, posting up a sworn statement that they are
"verily unable to reform So-and-so." The man that
is thus posted up, — if he fails to defeat those who
—
have tiius {wsted him in the law-courts, shall suffer
the following disqualifications he shall not attend
:
any marriage or children's birthday feasts, and if he

does so, anyone who wishes may with impunity
punish him v\-ith blows. The same law shall hold
good for the women the offender shall have no
:
part in women's excursions, honours, or invitations

to weddings or birthday feasts, if she has been
similarly posted up as disorderly and has lost her suit.
And when they shall have finished producing
children according to the laws, if the man have
sexual intercourse with a strange woman, or the
woman with a man, while the latter are still within
the procreative age-limit, they shall be liable to the
same penalty as was stated for those still producing
children. Thereafter the man and woman that are
sober-minded in these matters shall be well-reputed
in every way ;but the opposite kind of esteem, or
rather disesteem, shall be shown to persons of the
499
PLATO
785 jxaWov 8e artâêcrdu). koX /aerpiaôvrcov fiev
Trepi ra roiavra roiv irXeiofcov avo/.ioOeTr]Ta aiyrj
Ketcrda), aKoajxovvTwv he vofiodeTrjOivra ravTrj
irpaTTeaOw kutu roy? tots TedevTa<{ v6piOv<i.
Biou ixev oi-pxh "^^^ rravTO'i €KdcrT0i<; 6 TrpcoTO^
eviavTo^' bv <yeypd(f)6ai \p60iv iv lepolcrc Trarprpoa
^0)7]^ dp')(r)v Koptp Kol KopD' 7rapay6ypd(f>6ai.^ S' iv
TOi)(^(p XeXevKMfievo) iv rrdarj (^parpia rov dptOfibv
rSiv dp)(^6vTcov tS)v iirX tol^ erecnv dpidfiovfievcov.
T?}? Be ^parpia^ del rov<; ^6)VTa<i fiev 'y6ypd(pdai
B ttXtjo-lov, tov<; 8' v7reK')(U)povvTa^ rov ^lov iâXei-
<beiv. ydfxov he opov elvai Koprj fiev diro e/cKai-
0€Ka iTMv eh eiKocri, rov /xaKporaTOv ')(p6vov
dcfxopia/jLevov, Kopw Se diro Tpid/covra p-expt tcov
irevri xal rpidKovra. eh Be dp^d^ yvvaixl fiev
rerrapdKovra, dvBpl Be TpiaKOvra errj' TTyoo? TroXe-
fiov Be dvBpl /xev €ifco<ri fJ-expi' tcov eîJKovra irwv
yvvaiKL Be, rjv dv Boktj ^j^/oetay Belv xprjaOai irpo'i
rd TToXe/jLiKd, iirecBdv iralBa'; yevvrjar], to Bvvarov
Kul TTpeirov eKdarai^ TrpoaTaTTecv /^^XP^ '^^^
irevrrjKOVTa eVwj/.
* trapayfypdcpdai Orelli, Schauz : irapayfypa.<(>6(c MSS.
SO9.
LAWS, BOOK VI
opposite character. Sexual conduct shall lie un-
mentioned or unprescribed by law when the majority
show due propriety therein but if tliey are dis-
;
orderly, then what is thus prescribed shall be

executed according to the laws then enacted.
For everyone the first year is the beginning of the
whole life it ought to be inscribed as life's beginning
:
for both boy and girl in their ancestral shrines :
beside it, on a whited wall in every phratry, there

should be written up the number of the archons
who give its number to the year ; and the names of
the living members of the phratry shall be written
always close together, and those of the deceased shall
be erased. The limit of the marriage-age shall be
from sixteen to twenty years the longest time —
—
allowed for a girl, and for a boy from thirty to
thirty-five. The limit for official posts shall be forty
for a woman and thirty for a man. For military
services the limit shall be from twenty years up to
sixty for a man for women they shall ordain what
;
is possible and fitting in each case, after they have

finished bearing children, and up to the age of fifty,
in whatever kind of military work it may be thought
right to employ their services.
501
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Foirster
Aristotle: Parts op Animals. A. L. Peck; Motion and
Progression or Animals. E. S. Forster.
4
Abistotle: Physics. Rev. P. Wickstoed and F. M, Comford.
2 Vols.
Abistotlk: Poetics and Longintjs. VV. Hamilton Fyfe;
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Aristotle: Politics. H. Rackham.
Aristotle: Problems. W. S. Hett. 2 Vols.
Aristotle: Rhetorica Ad ALEXAia>BtrM (with Pboblehs.
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Arrian: History of Alexakdeb and Indica. Rev. E. Ilifie
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Athenaeus Deipnosophistae. C. B. Gulick. 7 Vols.
:
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CALLTMACHrs FRAGMENTS. C. A. Tryjjanis.
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Mair; Aratus. G. R. Mair.
Clemekt of Alexandria. Rev. G. W. Butterworth.
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Dapknis and Chloe. Thomley's Translation revised by
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Demosthenes I.: Olynthiacs, Philippics and Minob Oba-
TIONS. I.-XVII. AND XX. J. H. Vince.
Demosthenes II.: De Corona and Dk Falsa Legatione.
C. A. Vince and J. H. Vince.
Demosthenes III.: Meidias, Andbotion, Abistocbates,
Timocrates and Abistogeiton, I. and II. J. H. Vince.
Demosthenes [IV .-VI. Private Obations and In Neaebam.
:
A. T. Mvirray.
Demosthenes VII. Funeral Speech, Erotic Essay, Exobdu
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tmd Letters. X. W. and N. J. DeWitt.

Dio Cassitts: Roman History. E. Gary. 9 Vols.
Dio Chbysostom. J. W. Cohoon and H. Lamar Crosby. 6 Vols.
DiODORUS SicuLUs. 12 Vols. Vols. I.- VI. C. H. Oldfather.
Vol. VII. C. L. Sherman. Vols. IX. and X. R. M. Geer.
Vol. XI. F. Walton.
Diogenes Laeritics. R. D. Hicks. 2 Vols.
Dionybius of Halicabnassus Roman Antiquitxes.
: Spel>
man's translation revised by E. Cary. 7 Vols.
Epiotetus. W.
a. Oldfather. 2 Vols.
EtJBTPiDES. A. S. Way. 4 Vols. Verse trans.
EusEBitrs: Ecclesiastical History. Kirsopp Lake and
J. E. L. Oulton. 2 Vols.
Galen: On the Natubal Faculties. A. J. Brock.
The Gbeek Anthology. W. R. Paton. 6 Vols.
Gbeek Elegy and Iambus with the Anacbeontea. J. M.
Edmonds. 2 Vols.
The Greek Bitcolic Poets (Theocritus, Bion, Moschus).
J. M. Edmonds.
Greek Mathematical Works. Ivor Thomas. 2 Vols.
Herodes. Cf. Theophrastus Characters. :
Herodotus. A. D. Godley. 4 Vols.

Hesiod and The Homeric Hymns. H. G. Evelj'n Wliite.
Hippocrates and the Fragments of Heracleitus. W. H. S,
Jones and E. T. Withington. 4 Vols.
Homer: Iliad. A. T. Murray. 2 Vols.
Homer: Odyssey. A. T. Murray. 2 Vols.
IsAEUs. E. W. Forster.
IsocRATEs. George Norlin and LaRue Van Hook. 3 Vols.
St. John Damascene: Barlaam and Ioasaph. Rev. G. R.
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JosEPHUS. H. St. J. Thackeray and Ralph Marcus. 9 Vols.
Vols. I.-VII.
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Lucian. 8 Vols. Vols. I.-V. A. M. Harmon. Vol. VI. K.
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Lyra Graeca. J. M. Edmonds. 3 Vols.
Lysias. W. R. M. Lamb.
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Phtlostratus : The Life of Apollonius or Tyana. F. C.
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6
PniLOSTBATUs and EuNAPius: Lives of thb Sophists. Wilmer
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Pindar. Sir J. E. Sandys.
Plato: Chabmides, Alcibiades, Hipparchus, The Lovers,
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Plato: Cbatylus, Parmexides, Greater Hippias, Lesser
HiPPiAS. H. N. Fowler.
Plato: Euthyphro, Apology, Cbito, Phaedo, Phaedrus.
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Plato: Laches, Peotagobas, Meno, Euthydemus. W. R. M.
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Plato: Laws. Rev. R. G. Bury. 2 Vols.
Plato: Lysis, Symposium, Gorgias. W. R. M. Lamb.
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Plato: Statesman, Philebus. H.N. Fowler; Ion. W. R. M.
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Plato: Timaeus, Ceitias, Clitopho, Menexekus, Epistulab.
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Plutarch: Morat.ta. 15 Vols. Vols. I.-V. F. C. Babbitt.
Vol. VI. W. C. Helmbold. Vol. VII. P. H. De Lacy and
B. Einarson. Vol. IX. E. L. Minar, Jr., F. H. Sandbach,
W. C. Helmbold. Vol. X. H. N. Fowler. Vol. XII. H.
Cherniss and W. C. Helmbold.
Plutarch: The Parallel Lives. B. Pcrrin. 11 Vols.
PoLYBitrs. W. R. Paton. 6 Vols.
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Ptolemy: Tetbabiblos. Cf. Manetho.
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Sextus Empibicus. Rev. R. G. Bury. 4 Vols.
Sophocles. F. Storr. 2 Vols. Verse trans.
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Xenophon: Hellenica, Anabasis, Apology, and Symposium.
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Xenophon Memobabilia and Oeconomicus. E. C. Marchant.
:
Xenophon Scbipta Minoba. E. C. Marchant.

:
IN PREPARATION
Greek Authors
Akistotle: History of Animals. A. L. Peck,
Plotinus : A. H. Armstrong.
Latirt Authors
Babeius and Phaedbus. Ben E. Perry.
DESCRIPTIVE PROSPECTUS ON APPLICATION
London WILLIAM HEINEMANN LTD

Cambridge, Mass. HARVARD UNIVERSITY PRESS
VICTORIA UNlVERSlTf
LIBRARY
PRATT
m\I^V2 1979
WAV 14 1964

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STVJOIA IN/

This book belongs to

tE. CAPPS, PH.D., IX.D. tW. H. D. ROUSE, UTr.D.

J^iVit printed 1926

Printed in Great Britain

BOOK III 165

by him. His companions are little more than

is one wherein Law reigns with undisputed sway,

regulated play after six, regular instruction in music

and gymnastic, combined with play. Emphasis is

gods take no interest in men or their affairs (whereas

gods are corruptible by bribes. Laws are enacted to

It will be clear from this analysis that the title

Book III, and Book IV have for their main theme

therefore to every law there should be prefixed a

possess a wife and family of his own and a certain

invoked in support of its constitution and its laws.

(aiScis) and " moderation " (/icrpioTT/s) —

in Book III, with its discussion of political types,

the Tenth Book we get something also of psycho-

writing of Plato shows so profound an insight into

* E, Barker, Political Thought of Plato and Aristotle, p. 202.

and, as he himself would have us believe, the

The only English conmientary on the Larvs is

St. I. TA TOY AIAAOrOY HPOSfinA

Ae. ®€0<; rj Ti<i dv9p(t)7ra)v vfilv, &> ^evoi, €t\r}(f>e

KA. AeycTai yap ovto) irap' rjph koI hrj koX •

TOV dhe\<^6v ye avTOv 'PaSd/xavOvv, uKoveTe yap

ATH. To whom do you authorship

Lacedaemon, where our friend here has his home,

CLIN. So our people say. And they say also

pirroiv re ev Tot9 dXaecriv tjyjrr) Kal KdWi]

fiev. aW' tcopev dyaOfj rv')(rj.

A0. Tavr eirj. Kal poc Xeye, Kard ri rd

* rifias wanting in Paris MS.

ATH. Yes, his renown indeed glorious and well

befitting a son of Zeus. And, since you and our

age, beguiling the time with discourse, and thus

one finds in the groves cypress-trees of wonderful

them we shall say so still more emphatically. So

did your law ordain the common meals you have,

mostly go on horseback, we Cretans are runners,

^ The grotto of Dicte on Mt. Ida.

* roi'ijaaaBcu Sch&nz : xoirifftcOai M.SS.

for the practice of foot-running. Under these con-

and arrows are adopted as suitable because of their

soldiers, all the time they are on campaign, are

then, these practices are necessary in war, —

KA. 'n ^eve ^AOrjvale — ov yap ae Attikqv

edekotp^ av tr-poaayopeveiv. BoKeL<i yap /xot, Tij<i

KA. KdvravOa, co ^eve, ro viKav avrov avrov

seems to me, given you an excellent understanding

the well-constituted State you appear to me to imply

ATH. And must each individual man regard him-

justice of our recent statement that, in the mass, all

A0. ilaXiv roLvvv top \6yov dvaarpeylrcofiev.

KA. To KpeuTTco T€ uvTm elvat X€y€i<i rivd, rnv

» Cp. Jiep. 430 K flf. : Proverbs xvi. 32.

victory over self is of all victories the first and best