Pop Goes The Weasel: Interview with Barry William Hale http://atarashinooz.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/interview-with-barry-will...

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Interview with Barry William Hale

SLIDESHOW

FOLLOWERS
The artist William Barry Hale is producing some of the most
compelling work in the magickal/occult field. Plenty has
been written on his colourful upbringing, and it is not the with Google Friend Connect
intent of this piece to re-tell the stories of the experiences Members (19)
that have led him to his current position. Moreover this
article focuses on his views on art and ritual, two areas that
are deeply connected in his work.
Having been a Thelemite for over twenty years, I ask what
led him to this particular path; “I think it pretty much found
me, really. I was interested in occultism – I’ve always had a
fascination with that kind of thing since I was quite young –
and then I stumbled across Crowley, and I pretty much
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crashed into the O.T.O in a pub.” He laughs as he recollects
the memory, adding “And then the next thing I knew I went
to a Gnostic Mass then went away for a year or so and read
BL OG ARCHIVE
and thought about things. It was kind of interesting because
I was really at a stage in my life when, I was involved in a ▼ 2013 (44)
few different things when I was younger.” I interject to ask if ▼ July (2)
this involved ‘witchy-poo’ stuff (a technical term for those Interview with Barry
unfamiliar with the subject). “Not really witchy stuff. I grew William Hale
up in the suburbs and was hanging out with old women from Interview with Trevor
the spiritualist churches and the Theosophical Society and Strnad of The Black
people who had their own thing going on; divining for Bach Dahlia M...
Flower remedies; astral travelling and things like that, and

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lots of different influences, hanging out with those…mainly ► June (9)

those people were very old; I didn’t really know anyone who ► May (5)
was young!” He cracks up again – “I was only 14, you
► April (5)
know?!”
So what does it actually mean for you, to be a Thelemite? “I ► March (11)
think the tenets are fairly clear; the way the O.T.O or ► February (5)
Crowley puts it down pretty clearly that his modus operandi
► January (7)
is for everyone to discover their true Will and to do it. I kind
of resonated with Crowley’s writing and spent a long time in ► 2012 (82)
that initiatic tradition and found it very rewarding and I got ► 2011 (90)
my stripes, I suppose…”
► 2010 (60)
Like any creative spirit, he tells me that he’s “always been
an artist. Since I was young, I’ve always had a pen in my ► 2009 (44)
hand, ever since I can remember, I’ve always been an
artist…”
I mention that I’ve interviewed a number of Thelemites over ABOU T M E

the years, and they’re not always cool with the question, A LB E RT P E TE RS E N

but I ask it anyway; what grade are you in? He responds in

Journo, Explorer,
a diplomatic fashion “It’s not really something that people
Artist, Drinker
talk about but I’ve been a Lodge Master, and I’m a Bishop in
V IEW M Y C OM PL ET E
the O.T.O so can pretty much tell you where I’m at…” - he’s
PR OF IL E
laughing again; bloody magicians! “You can usually work it
out by what you’ve done; if you know enough about the
system you can pretty much work out where I might be…”
Can you tell me about the sorts of ritual work you do? “I’ve
really experimented widely, beginning with the Thelemic
corpus of rituals, like a lot of people do when they first get
into this sort of stuff, so my early magickal career was
pretty much exploring the Thelemic ceremonial magickal
tradition and that sort of thing.” He neatly draws the
relationship between the rituals of Thelema with the Golden
Dawn and Enochian magic, patiently explaining the
connections with eastern and western practices; as he puts
it “It really gives you an exposure to, or you can get a base,
that opens you up into an exploration where you can really
go where you want to…I’ve always been fascinated with the
mechanics of magick; what makes things work, and I’m
quite interested in early grimoires and divers books of spells
and various different traditions; I was quite interested in
that sort of stuff aside from the more mystically orientated
stuff, and so as I tended to go on I tended to move towards
more specialised areas that become research and magickal
practices that are very unique to yourself – or myself,
anyway – and I’ve always had a fairly idiosyncratic approach
as well…”
As with other interviews with occultists and magicians, there
are pauses as he tries to explain his methods – I have
coined this difficulty as an attempt at ‘effing the ineffable’ –
it’s pretty hard trying to bring it all down to an intellectual

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or rational level. “Yeah, I guess I’m not really sure what

type of ritual I perform; I suppose I perform rituals that are
from the Western esoteric tradition but then a lot of the
rituals that I do are kind of informed by the process, so I’ll
get information or I’ll get direction on how best something
should be done and then I integrate that, so it’s like an
ongoing process depending on what I’m doing. A lot of my
ritual [work] might be an operation which is based on
research to a particular magical system or aspect of a
magical system. One example might be an investigation of
the Enochian magical alphabet, something like that.”

Do you incorporate visual art in to your rituals easily - is it

something that you feel is the thing to do, for you? “Yeah,
definitely. I think the ritual magick tradition – the first thing
you think about is the magickal circle – or a ‘triangle of the
art’ where a spirit is supposed to manifest and various other
sorts of altars; magickal sigils; you’re building up an
aesthetic…”
Would you agree that there’s a degree of theatrics involved?
“I’m sure there is; when you look at the core of it, each of
the senses are basically stimulated to get you in to a higher
state of consciousness so you’re always using visual aids,
and also I think it’s very important one. Obviously you can
do it with your eyes shut, and to perform a ritual astrally,
and a lot of times that’s the aim; to perform it in your astral
body, then the actual ritual space that you’ve constructed,
and you’ve constructed each time and made and built and
seen so many times, becomes very cemented when you
have to imagine it or build it in your astral vision. So in
another way, that’s another way of looking at it. But I think
there’s a strong aesthetic component to my stuff because I
love any kind of artistic expression; the thing about
religions and very different spiritual forms is that they all
have a visual element or an inspired kind of an aesthetic
that seems to be a signature from of the inspiration they get
from their own traditions. I think it’s an important

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component. You know the drawings of magickal talismans?

There’s a magickal functionality to them, they’re designed to
attract a particular force to a particular object…”
Was this the purpose of jewellery that accompanied your
Legion 49 work? “There was a talismanic object that came
from a piece of artwork that I was working; a Japanese
jewellers contacted me; they do jewellery and they also do
stuff where they work with reconstructing Shinto statues
and stuff like that so their metal-work is really connected
with scared objects that are used in the Shinto tradition,
and they also have a great interest in western magic so that
was just a beautiful collaboration that came out of that…”
Sadly I was too poor to afford one of them – perhaps next
time…
When incorporating art into your ritual-work, is there a
particular format or process that you go through when
selecting work? “When I build up a ritual space, I usually do
that from scratch every time; I’ll build up a magickal circle
or a space that represents the manifestation of a particular
spirit – I think the thing to remember is that the function of
art, the function that it takes within the ritual – it’s more
than just creating a sense of drama or an aesthetic drama,
it has a functional and that’s usually to create a magickal
demarcation of a space that you’re working in, which
becomes a sacred space - or another space where it’s to
constrain a conjuration of a spirit, and if it’s not constrained
then you’re not working effectively.” He also adds that all
manner of mischief can occur as a result of unconstrained
spirits. I suspect anyone who practices can identify with
that.
“So in a sense , when people see that stuff; they might see
it in a movie or they might see a picture and they might
think ‘this is a dramatic kind of thing’ – and there is a
tradition of dramatic ritual in the western tradition – but it’s
important to remember, well, when I’m doing it, they’re [the
artworks] ephemeral; they’re usually destroyed or remade
each time, and they’ll be constructed from scratch each time
I do a particular ritual, or they might change over a period
of time. So the construction of the ritual space or the
aesthetic space, which is a magickal space, is an integral
part of the magickal work itself, and so as you learn more
mysteries about what you might be working with are
revealed, you refine it, it becomes more refined so
everything becomes a more finely attuned vehicle to have
the effect or to maintain a communication or whatever your
particular magickal operation is about, so it’s refined and it
transforms. And in the actual making of it, you often find
that you’ll make different aesthetic decisions and you’ll be
getting information regarding ‘it should be this way’ and I

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think that goes equally, there are other magical

augmentations; people might build an altar that is a space
of worship or something like that, to a particular aspect of
divinity or whatever, or they might construct a container for
an elemental to be housed. For me, the art is sometimes
produced during the ritual itself so I might not have a
signature of a particular spirit that I might want to work
with, and during the ritual I might want to get the actual
sigil or signature of the spirit so I can then better call that
spirit again, so it’s a magickal glyph that serves as a
connection to be able to call forth that [spirit]. And in
another way, you can look at Voudon veves, they basically
become a mouth of the loa so they’re fed, they’re a point of
ingress – or egress – they’re a gateway. And I think there’s
also been times when the inspiration from the ritual itself
has sort of fuelled my artistic expression and I’ve started
making art or drawing on the ground and stuff like that, and
that activity, so sometimes it will be about getting a spiritual
sigil but other times, in those particular instances – it’s
happened on a number of occasions – the act of drawing,
that becomes the actual battery that keeps me in that
particular space or in communication with that particular
spirit.” We have limited time for the interview and he notes
“There are so many aspects of how art functions or how I
would use art in a ritual space so it’s hard to cover it all…”
Is there a distinction for you between the work you produce
in a ritual setting and (for want of a better term) ‘every day’
art? “For me, all of my art is either a direct result of my
ritual and magickal practice or research and investigation,
so that all of the art that I do produce emerges from those
concerns or the practice itself. Something that I might draw
on the ground or something that I might articulate, kind of
like a sigilic spell or sigilic composition or something; a
talisman or I might use a ritual space where I kind of gird
myself or wind myself around, magickal symbols and stuff,
but then I might do that again on a canvas or a piece of
glass or whatever that might be. I suppose it’s like using
different tools to produce it, so I might paint it…is there a
distinction? Well, yeah, there is; I suppose that some of the
art I would make in ritual space is ephemeral; it might be
captured with a photograph or film – or it might not at all.
But where it doesn’t become ephemeral, is that I will
incorporate those considerations into other art. I might
paint that – it might be a slightly different version – or I
might make a sculpture with a basis of something from that,
so it informs my aesthetic art-making process directly – it
might be presented in a different forum, like I might have
an art exhibition that’s basically been inspired by, or come
out of, a particular magickal working or something that I’ve

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researched or done stuff with over a period of time.”

So you get to witness the evolution of an artwork or sigil
from conception through inspiration to completion? “Yeah,
sure – if it’s a spirit signature then usually it’s exactly the
same, if it’s sigilic writing or creating something or if I’m
doing stuff with the Enochian alphabet or creating I’ll do it
different every time. Sometimes I’ll essentially be doing the
same thing over and over again but the way it comes out is
totally different, every time…”

Some of Barry’s work is currently in the Fulgar Esoterica

I:MAGE show in London; sadly neither of us is able to make
it across the water to see it. We get into a bit of a discussion
about the Crowley/Palermo exhibition and the Traces of
Sacred exhibition at the Pompidou in Paris, which as Barry
points out “was shown at Buratti Fine Arts in Perth.” I
should pimp the fact that Barry is also represented by
Buratti and Fulgar, and in order to accomplish that I leave
you with Barry’s final words: “And that show’s coming to
Sydney in November and NOKO [another project which
Barry is involved with]is going to do some performance and
I’m going to have a few works in the Recreating The Abbey,
and then there’s the S H Ervin Gallery, which is going to be
the big show; Windows to the Sacred – it’s gonna be a
major show…” My advice? Be there or be slightly
rectangular.
It was a pleasure talking to you, Mr Hale.

All images supplied by the artist.

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L A BEL S: A L EIST ER CR OW L E Y, A RT, A U ST R A L IA N A RT, BA R RY W IL L IA M H A L E,
BU R AT T I F IN E A RT, F U L GA R E SOT E R ICA , I: M A GE, M A GICK A L , OC C U LT, OTO

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