CHEMICAL HERITAGE FOUNDATION

PATRICIA F. DUCY

The Pew Scholars Program in the Biomedical Sciences

Transcript of Interviews
Conducted by

David J. Caruso

at

Columbia University
New York, New York

on

16 and 17 July 2008

(With Subsequent Corrections and Additions)

Patricia F. Ducy
 ACKNOWLEDGEMENT

This oral history is part of a series supported by a grant from the Pew Charitable Trusts based on

the Pew Scholars Program in the Biomedical Sciences. This collection is an important resource

for the history of biomedicine, recording the life and careers of young, distinguished biomedical

scientists and of Pew Scholars Program in the Biomedical Sciences Advisory Committee

members.

This oral history is made possible through the generosity of

 This interview has been designated as Semi Restricted Access.

One may view the oral history with the permission of CHF.
However, the permission of the interviewee is required to quote from, cite,
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Please contact CHF to request permission.

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The Chemical Heritage Foundation (CHF) serves the community of the chemical and molecular
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 PATRICIA F. DUCY

1964 Born in Lyon, France on 30 July

Education

1989 M.S., Université Claude Bernard Lyon 1, Differentiation and Genetics

1996 Ph.D., Université Claude Bernard Lyon 1, Genetics

Professional Experience

University of Texas M. D. Anderson Cancer Center

1993-1998 Postdoctorate, Molecular Genetics

Baylor College of Medicine

1998-2000 Research Associate, Molecular and Human Genetics
2000-2006 Assistant Professor, Molecular and Human Genetics

Columbia University
2006-present Associate Professor, Pathology

Honors

1996-1998 McDuffie Fellow of the Arthritis Foundation

1997 Houston Endowment Scientific Achievement Fund Fellowship Award
1998 J. V. Satterfield Arthritis Investigator Award, Arthritis Foundation
2000 Basil O‟Connor Award, March of Dimes
2001 Women‟s Fund for Health Education and Research Award
2001-2005 Pew Scholar in the Biomedical Sciences
2003 Fuller Albright Award from the American Society for Bone and Mineral
Research
 ABSTRACT

Patricia F. Ducy grew up in Lyon, France, an only child. Her father was in insurance
and her mother was a secretary. She attended a very good school a fair distance from her home,
so she spent much time with her grandparents who lived near the school. She had a happy, busy
childhood in a close family who all spent weekends renovating an old farmhouse. She also
loved music and studying guitar. Schooldays were very long and required a lot of homework,
but Ducy was self-motivated and had no trouble doing well. When she was about twelve she had
a biology teacher who inspired her to go into genetics.
After high school, she wanted to go into genetics but had to study pharmacy and then
general biology before she was accepted into Université Claude Bernard‟s PhD program in
genetics. She worked in Robert Garrone‟s histology lab, where she conducted research on actin
in fresh-water sponges. She expected to stay in France and do research, but when she heard
Gerard Karsenty give a talk she knew she had found what she wanted to do. She accepted a
postdoc in Karsenty‟s lab at M.D. Anderson Cancer Center at the University of Texas. Though
she had published no papers during her PhD years, she published sixteen as a postdoc; one
especially—on osteoblastic-specific transcription factor—has been crucial to the field.
She went back to France to look for a job, but facilities in France were limited such that
she could not have the large number of mice she needed for her work, so she decided to stay in
the United States, accepting a research associate position, then an assistant professorship, at the
Baylor College of Medicine. Ducy and Karsenty divided their research, Ducy taking her work
on osteoblasts, seeking a connection between fat and bone; they continued to collaborate, and
eventually married. Then they moved to Columbia University, where they joined their labs and
some of their research.
Throughout the interview Ducy describes the French educational and scientific systems
and compares them to the American systems. At the end of the interview she talks about getting
the Pew award and about the Pew annual meetings; she analogizes science to cooking, both
requiring “magic”; and she decries the need to take time away from the bench to seek funding.
She speaks about continuing her work on osteoblasts, with a view to preventing and treating
bone loss diseases; she also talks about how she and her husband‟s labs are beginning to work
on diabetes.

INTERVIEWER

David J. Caruso earned a B.A. in the History of Science, Medicine, and Technology
from the Johns Hopkins University in 2001 and a Ph.D. in Science and Technology Studies
from Cornell University in 2008. His graduate work focused on the interaction of American
military and medical personnel from the Spanish-American War through World War I and the
institutional transformations that resulted in the development of American military medicine as
a unique form of knowledge and practice. David is currently the Program Manager for Oral
History at the CHF. His current research interest focuses on the discipline formation of
biomedical science in 20th-century America and the organizational structures that have
contributed to such formation.
 TABLE OF CONTENTS

Early Years 1
Childhood in Lyon, France. Parents and grandparents. French educational
system. Her school. Inspirational biology teacher. Playing guitar. Weekends
renovating farm. Loved reading.

College Years 9
Matriculates into Université Claude Bernard Lyon 1. Obtains M.S. in
Differentiation and Genetics. Two years studying pharmacy. College system in
France.

Graduate School Years 15

Finally enters genetics program at Claude Bernard. Works in Robert Garrone‟s
histology lab. Moving into molecular biology, a new discipline. Garrone‟s
mentoring style. French lab system. Working on actin in sponges. Expectations
of staying in France.

Postgraduate Years 23
Postdoc at M.D. Anderson Cancer Center, working in Gerard Karsenty‟s lab.
Culture shock. Learning English. Compares labs and mentoring styles.
American efficiency and competition. Sixteen papers, including very important
one on osteoblastic-specific transcription factor. Discusses paper writing and
publishing, grant writing.

Principal Investigator Years 34

Turns down job at McGill University for job at Baylor College of Medicine.
Marries Karsenty. Setting up her lab. Dividing research between his lab and
hers. Continues work on osteoblastic-specific transcription factor. Begins work
on leptin; connection between fat and bone. Her lab management style.
Discusses conferences and grants. Pew Scholars in the Biomedical Sciences
award and annual meetings. New position at Columbia University. Expectation
of diagnosing, preventing, and curing bone loss diseases. Moving into diabetes
research. Excitement engendered by science. Science education.

Index 58
 INDEX

Groupe Gerson, 1
A
actin, 18 H
histology, 15, 16, 25, 48
B HIV. See human immunodeficiency virus
Baylor College of Medicine, 23, 32, 34, 35, Houston, Texas, 19, 20, 22, 24, 34, 45
45, 55 Howard Hughes Medical Institute, 51
Behringer, Richard R., 25, 27 human immunodeficiency virus, 23
Bernard, Claude, 9, 54
Bradley, Allan, 23, 25, 27, 34, 35 I
INSERM. See Institut National de la Santé
C et de la Recherche Médicale
Canada, 34 Institut National de la Santé et de la
Cbfa1, 27, 30, 31, 47 Recherche Médicale, 21
Centre National de la Recherche
Scientifique, 21 K
Clinton, President William J., 31 Kaminsky, Steven G., 46
CNRS. See Centre National de la Recherche Kaposi‟s Sarcoma, 52
Scientifique Karsenty, Gerard, 6, 23, 24, 25, 27, 28, 29,
Columbia University, 1, 34, 35, 36, 41, 43, 32, 34, 35, 38, 39, 40, 41, 45, 48, 53
45, 55 Keystone Symposia on Islets and Beta Cell
Biology, 50
D
developmental biology, 15, 23, 25 L
DNA, 16, 25, 27, 48 leptin, 38, 47, 48
Ducy, Alain (father), 1 Lycée Ampere, 2
Ducy, Nadia (mother), 1 Lyon, France, 1, 2, 5, 14, 24, 26

E M
ENU. See ethyl-nitrosaurea Master‟s of Differentiation, 15
ethyl-nitrosaurea, 47, 48 McGill University, 34
Exposito, Jean-Yves, 15 molecular biology, 15, 16, 17, 18, 47
Montaigne Luc, 23
F Montreal, Québec, Canada, 34
France, 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 17, 19, 20,
21, 22, 24, 26, 27, 29, 32, 34, 51 N
National Institutes of Health, 21, 27, 31, 37
G Exploratory/Developmental Grant, 38, 47
Gallo, Robert, 23 New York City, New York, 41
Garrone, Robert, 15, 16 NIH. See National Institutes of Health

58
numerus clausus, 10 Simonet, Mme., 3
skeletal biology, 24
O sponge, 18, 25
osteoblastic-specific transcription factor, 30,
32, 37 T
osteoblasts, 39, 48, 49, 53 thalassemia, 17
osteocalcin, 27, 39 transcriptional regulation, 23
osteoclasts, 49 tryptophan, 54
osteopenia, 43
U
P United States of America, 14, 19, 23, 24,
Paris, France, 23 26, 29, 40, 51, 55
Pew Scholars in the Biomedical Sciences, 1, Université Claude Bernard Lyon 1, 9, 11
17, 28, 31, 34, 35, 38, 43, 45, 47, 51, 54, University of Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer
See Center, 19, 23

Q V
qPCR, 44 Venet, Mr., 8
Vuskovic, Jacques (grandfather), 1
R Vuskovic, Remi (grandmother), 1
ribonucleic acid, 48
RNA. See ribonucleic acid W
W. M. Keck Foundation Distinguished
S Young Scholars in Medical Research, 46
Searle Scholars Program, 46

59