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madness
enenurian
Ningishzidda Jan 5, 2010 at 2:57am
Post by madness on Jan 5, 2010 at 2:57am
Ok, after doing some searching:
Corpus of Ancient Near Eastern Seals in North American Collections, I: The Collection of the Pierpont Morgan Library (1948). By Edith Porada, in collaborat
Hopefully Porada's work will shed some light on the above seal, as she is usually pretty thorough in her examinations of seals. It seems that the library at Sydn
Shambler opac.library.usyd.edu.au/search~S4?/tCorpus+of+Ancient+Near+Eastern+Seals/tcorpus+of+ancient+near+eastern+seals/1%2C1%2C2%2CB/frameset&FF=tc
Posts: 415
madness Ningishzidda Jan 7, 2010 at 4:14am
e n e n u r i a n Post by madness on Jan 7, 2010 at 4:14am
I just got back from the library. These are Porada's notes on the cylinder in question, from The Collection of the Pierpont Morgan Library.
No. 386 (plate LV)
Old Babylonian Period : the God with Lion-Scimitar
(description, p. 48)
Hematite Cylinder. 21 x 9
Bull-eared god wrapped in rope coils (?) and holding lion scimitar in either hand; nude female; priest with pail and sprinkler before god with scimitar. In field:
Shambler (further remarks on previous page)

Posts: 415 Seal 386 shows a bull-eared god who is apparently wrapped in rope coils - perhaps to signify inclosure in a sarcophagus - and holds a lion scimitar in each han
in a number of clay plaques from Larsa and Telloh. For this reason Parrot identifies the god thus associated with death as Nergal.
madness
enenurian
Ningishzidda Jan 7, 2010 at 4:19pm

Post by madness on Jan 7, 2010 at 4:19pm
And finally, Wiggermann's notes in RLA s.v. mischwesen A
§ 7 no. 34. Bull-eared god Bahar(?) (§ 3.1), messenger of Lugal-irra* and Meslamta-ea. a. Porada, CRRA 26 Pl. XIIb; b. Porada, CANES no. 386.
§ 3.1 reiterates that he is in a "sarcophagus" wrapped in rope, that he is an underworld god with elements associated with Nergal, and that he is the messenger
Shambler
Posts: 415

Right, well regarding Porada's identification of the diagonal lines as "rope coils," us4-he2-gal2 has generously forwarded to me an article by Briggs Buchanan
Porada collaborated with Buchanan for her seal collection as I noted above. In Buchanan's study on the snake goddess, he happens to disagree with Porada:
madness
e n e n u r i a n Another possible connection with our snake goddess is offered by a few representatives on seals and many on terracottas, showing a bull-eared full-face god w
with weapons or vessels set in rows separated by horizontal borders and often has as its base a bracket mounted on sharp points like talons or claws. When the
appearance of twisted serpents.
I would have to side with Buchanan on the matter, as the chthonic context of the seal would lend itself better to twining serpents than to rope.
The winged snake goddess that he inspects is on an Old Babylonian grain contract seal from Larsa:
img693.imageshack.us/i/17276741.jpg/
Shambler Though it is from Larsa, the iconography here is of Syrian origin. Buchanan compares it to Syrian seals such as these (Ward, Seal Cylinders, 954, 955):
Posts: 415
And also to a Babylonian kudurru which depicts a similar goddess (King, Boundary-Stones, pl. XXX):
afterviewer Ningishzidda Jan 14, 2010 at 11:01pm
https://enenuru.proboards.com/thread/100/ningishzidda?page=4 1/7
Guest Post by afterviewer on Jan 14, 2010 at 11:01pm
Any thoughts as to the divining rod that is positioned to the right of the Deity in the pictograph? have been reading about the bio-electric/electromagnetic confi
figures, especially Inanna. AV.
madness
enenurian
Ningishzidda Jan 15, 2010 at 12:08am

Post by madness on Jan 15, 2010 at 12:08am
It's a forked lightning bolt.
Shambler
Posts: 415
afterviewer
Guest
Post by afterviewer on Jan 15, 2010 at 10:57pm
Thanks madness, I wonder if it would possess "magical" properties similar to a tuning fork of the same configuration?

Lightning is a property of the storm god.
In fact, so is the bull, as Green (The Storm-God, p. 23) concludes that "at least in southern Mesopotamia during the Old Babylonian Period (ca. 1850-1500 B.C
madness The bull becomes the mount of Adad as in OB (and subsequent periods) iconography such as this (after Vanel, L'Iconographie, p. 34, fig. 11):
enenurian
Interesting dragons here that flank a tree, now where have we seen this before
A nude rain-goddess is also associated with the bull (and together with the storm-god), which goes back to the Early Dynastic II period. And so on the basis of
But rather than the naturally depicted bull of the storm-god, we are concerned with the bull-man.
Shambler The bull-man (or bison-man) [=gud-alim/kusarikku] is the attendant of the sun-god Šamaš. We see the bull-man on OB terracotta plaques supporting a date-pa
Posts: 415
img222.imageshack.us/i/84803685.png/
So, the bull-god Bahar (dGUD) placed in a sarcophagus entwined with snakes, standing next to a lightning bolt and a nude female, associated with Netherworl
Perhaps it is the divine power (or libido) of the storm or the sun that has been regulated to the Netherworld.
afterviewer
Guest
Post by afterviewer on Jan 23, 2010 at 10:16pm
Thanks for posting the diagram and information, madness. Not likely to have stumbled across this stuff on mu own.
sheshki
enenurian
Ningishzidda Mar 1, 2010 at 7:15pm

Post by sheshki on Mar 1, 2010 at 7:15pm
I searched CDLI for {d}nin-gisz-zi-da' . And the result was "Found {'d}nin-gisz-zi-da' in 147 texts."
cdli.ucla.edu/search/result.pt?word=d}nin-gisz-zi-da&highlight_text=yes&index_name=graphemes&-sort=id_tex
d nun-gal-e-ne dirig-ba ki-sikil dinana za3-mi2-zu mah-am3

Posts: 1,631
madness Ningishzidda Mar 13, 2010 at 6:24am
e n e n u r i a n Post by madness on Mar 13, 2010 at 6:24am
Examining the Elamite seals which I posted a link to in the resources thread (#60).
Some examples of caduceus style images which I don't think we have seen before:
110, 111, 116, 118, 376, 463
2979 appears to be the most elaborate caduceus rendering (apart from the Gudea vase) that I have seen. Sitting on top of the entwined snakes is Inšušinak, the
Shambler 924 is an interesting looking snake.

Posts: 415
The coiled snake of 2560-2570 looks like Nirah but without the anthropomorphic body, perhaps identifiable as a truly natural snake variant of Nirah.
3118 reminds me of the kabbalistic tree.

sheshki
enenurian
Ningishzidda Mar 13, 2010 at 5:33pm

Post by sheshki on Mar 13, 2010 at 5:33pm
Thanks Madness, a very nice link. Just found some more snakes. 2178, 2179, 2180.
d nun-gal-e-ne dirig-ba ki-sikil dinana za3-mi2-zu mah-am3

Posts: 1,631
enkur
enen
urian
Ningishzidda Oct 29, 2010 at 3:03pm

Post by enkur on Oct 29, 2010 at 3:03pm
Here is my modest contribution to this long thread. First of all, Naomi, pleased to meet you - seems we share something in common. This is my collage dedicated to t
geographical latitude than that of Mesopotamia - this tree is a certain beech which is many hundred of years old, and which was and still is a cult object even nowaday
cerastes there are the unicorn vipers - Vipera ammodytes, the most awe-inspiring snakes in my latitude. I've written the name of Ningishzidda with ngesh sign as give
Posts:
516 Last Edit: Oct 29, 2010 at 3:05pm by enkur
Here it is.
enkur Attachments:
enenurian
Posts: 516

Till now I've traced two parallels of Ningishzidda in some other than Mesopotamia lands and suppose Ningishzidda underlies them as the most ancient archetype. The
enkur Indian civilization of Harappa is more than obvious. I tend to regard the later Hindu religious concepts as a profanation to the older magical concepts. Generally, for m
e n e n for the masses.
urian
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enkur Ningishzidda Oct 29, 2010 at 3:38pm

e n e n Post by enkur on Oct 29, 2010 at 3:38pm
u r i a n The other parallel is the Phrygian Sabazius and the Thracian Zagreus (Thracians and Phrygians being of the same ethnic origin) later known as Dionysos by the Helle
attrtibutes were the winding vine, the snakes and the leopards, so it's Dionysos rather than Hermes which is to be compared with Ningishzidda. Moreover, the Thracia
antiquity) is a speculation. The Hellenes have always been "political incorrect" chauvinists who distorted the foreign cultures to fit their "classical" notions of the thin
features of both the late Hellenic Dionysos as a dying and resurrecting deity and Hermes in his psychopompos aspect in the underworld. The Thracian and Phrygian p
were also of a similar ethnic origin like them but developed a Mesopotamian-like culture and civilization.
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As for Enki, I've never been able to find any genuine Sumerian imagery of him - he is represented only in an antropomorphic form in the Akkadian cylinder seals, bu
enkur or fish-like features if not reptilian ones. He was a heavenly deity who descended in Kur after Ereshkigal and what happened next remained a mystery for us. A myste
enenu
r i a n On a subjective plane, He responds to my magic call as a goatfish (Suhurmash) like in this late Babylonian kudurru stone. But it's not an easy matter to invoke Enki -
and dream all of us, so in order to be invoked He is to be awakened in the sorcerer's dream. For expressing similar thoughts I was banned from some Enki/Ea society.
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Last Edit: Oct 29, 2010 at 4:10pm by enkur

Well I'm a sorcerer who seeks to be genuine here and now, not 6000 years ago. That's why I can be neither a religious reconstructionalist nor a neo-pagan. I do not pre
much to be discovered yet by that science. On the other hand, Mr. Crowley was once told: " ...the rituals shall be half known and half concealed...", so this could be ap
in something enough to feel the presence of the numinous and have its mystery revealed.
In my own subjective psychocosmos Abzu is under the lowest level of Kur, directly under E-Gal-Kur-Zagin where there is a sacred temple-well watched over by the o
enkur one may return from the Land of No Return. Abzu is connected to the Upperworld via a vast network (Sashushgal) of subterranian currents which spring out on the su
e n e n wherefrom the sperm springs out...Ereshkigal being the guardian of all Memory, one is stripped down of all one's memories before Her and what remains is thrown do
u r i a n Upperworld in an irrecognizable new configuration of MEs. Yet there are some options - one may stay with one's beloved Queen of All Peoples forever, one may serv
and get oneself lost in the vast ocean of Memory stored there in quest of some mystery - probably that of eventually realizing oneself only as an aggregate of thousand
Gidim who could restore even one's flesh via predatory practices, or one may discover the formula how to preserve one's identity through Abzu, who knows? The sorc
that it was a great grace to have Ninggishzidda as a guide and introducer to the Queen of the Great Below. Maybe as a son-in-law of Enki, He could be of some help i
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enkur
enen
urian

The above is one of the greatest mysteries of my life - it's the most ancient underground temple discovered on the territory of the ancient Thrace - about 1300 b.c.e., a
dedicated to some subterranean water deity, so the local archaeologists have qualified it as an Abzu temple dedicated to the Mesopotamian deity Enki/Ea whose cult p
over that mystery the weather and the treasure hunters gradually ruin it...but this is probably appropriate for another thread.
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516
madness Ningishzidda Oct 31, 2010 at 12:54am

e n e n u r i a n Post by madness on Oct 31, 2010 at 12:54am
Interesting observations, I've investigated the secret nature of the Engur in reply #5 in this thread, which might help confirm your thoughts.
Shambler
Posts: 415
enkur
enenurian
Ningishzidda Oct 31, 2010 at 8:30am

Post by enkur on Oct 31, 2010 at 8:30am
Yes, it does confirm my thoughts Great! I was just pondering about the name of Namma! Thanks. However, I will respond there on this topic, here being a s
Posts: 516
Ningishzidda Oct 31, 2010 at 10:19am

Post by us4-he2-gal2 on Oct 31, 2010 at 10:19am
Enkur:
This image is excellent, the tree depicting the deity - many nice touches! I like the 6 horned crown for example.
Certainly no worries about intolerance as experienced at that enki/ea forum you mentioned. I've found that the forum has only progressed as long as the posters
*The following is to expand the idea that the Abzu is source of all fresh waters.
As for your post largest post, with the picture of the well at Thrace, the content in some ways is similar to the lecture and class discussion last week from Prof. F
class here in Ontario, Canada. So his discussion was in part on the how the Tigris and Euphrates and were thought to run under the Persian gulf into Dilmun, in
were originally noted by W. F. Albright in an article from the 1920s. Originally Albright, referring to an incantation dealing with the Kishkanu tree, translated th
top of the netherworld. So I made a small discussion of this on the class discussion board, a post I will paste below:
"In the last lecture we heard discussion on the term "mouth of rivers" = "source of rivers" in Mesopotamian thinking. I was intrigued that Albright utilized incan
give a portion of M. Geller's updated translation of the same below (from , Evil Demons: Canonical Utukkū Lemnūtu Incantations. State Archives of Assyria Cu
"95 A black kiškanu-tree grew in Eridu, created in a pure place,

96 the appearance of which is pure lapis which extends into* the Apsû.
us4-he2-gal2 97 Ea's activities in Eridu are full of abundance,
Administrator98 his dwelling is right on the Netherworld,
99 and his sanctuary is Nammu's couch.
100 In a pure temple, which is like a forest with its extended shadows, (where) no one shall enter its midst,
101 Šamaš and Tammuz are inside.
us4-he2- 102 Between the two mouths of the rivers, Kahegal, Igihegal and Lahmu-abzu of Eridu
gal2 Avatar 103 took that kiškanu-tree, cast the spell of the Apsû, and placed it on the distraught patient's head."
While the new translation overturns a small part of Albright's discussion in that it locates Enki's dwelling "right on the Netherworld" as oppose to 'in the Netherw
Posts: 1,699 text in my own words, this is an exorcistic text with the overall aim of driving off sickness demons which afflict a paying patient - the first part of the text, above
kiškanu-tree (an object which mediated between heaven and earth by virtue of its roots and branches (with Cunningham 1997).
Therefore the relevant part of text is explaining or better establishing the purity of the item to be used by orally/magically placing its origin in the pure domain o
it were - Enki's mother on her couch (Nammu), Shamash and Tammuz (I'm not sure why on this one), and on line 102 the Doormen of the house or Eridu (Kahe
the Abzu) personally placing it on the head of the patient - the point is, the mouth /source of rivers is down in Enki's realm among his minions, henceforth this te
thought, was in Enki's domain."
*For more on the Kishkanu stuff, the enenuru user can refer to this thread:
enenuru.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=recite&action=display&thread=134
As for the Abzu and fresh waters as transfer points from the below to the above, this is interesting - I am not sure that there explicit correspondence in the texts,
featured - for example, when Enkidu's shade is brought back, Enki tell's Utu to bring him up through a hole. The reasons why Utu comes into play are complex
another is the analogy of the netherworld as a sort of prison, real Mesopotamian prisons were little more than a whole in the ground where one could only sit an
In a hymn to Nungal (Nungal A): t.4.28.1, which concerns the goddess in charge of prisons and treating prisoners, reads:
"Its inmates, like small birds escaped from the claws of an owl, look to its opening as to the rising of the sun"
50. lu2-be2-e-ne buru5mušen dnin-ninna2mušen-ta šu-ta šub-ba-gin7

51. ĝal2 da13-da13-bi-še3 dutu e3-a-gin7 igi-bi im-ši-ĝal2
enkur Ningishzidda Nov 2, 2010 at 12:39pm
e n e n Post by enkur on Nov 2, 2010 at 12:39pm
u r i a n Thanks us4-he2-gal2. Quite interesting indeed.
Seems we are on the way to connect here the thread of Ningishzidda with the thread of Abzu. In the "Balbale to Ningishzidda A" Ningishzidda is addressed as "who g
times in this balbale which even ends with praising Enki. Yes, Ningishzidda is a son-in-law of Enki by Ninazimua and his grand son as a child of Ningirida (his father
something more meant in this text.
Though I personally don't like Zecharia Sitchin's writings, I cannot deny the insight they could inspire time to time even to me. For example, his interpretation of the n
Adapa where the name is written Gishzidda as "the Tree of Truth" guarding the palace of An. (The "Lord" is added by me.)
Well in my subjective Sumerian psychocosmos Kur, or Kur-gal, the underworld just mirrors the sevenfold zikurat of the upperworld with a gate to each lower level, so
inverted summit. There is a Tree-axis which roots are reaching Abzu through Kur-gal, and which branches are reaching for the stars, thus forming a "duranki". First I
now I start to "see" the roots of this tree as serpents drinking Abzu's water of life and its branches as serpents whose tongues are the stars... It's great. The archetype of
anything. There are things which are felt true during a ritual but not so true when one tries to describe them.
Posts: Interesting, I've always felt Utu as rising from Abzu in the morning (maybe because I've been so fascinated by the Seal of Adda), so Mr. Sitchin's idea of Abzu being
516
Abzu pulsates with impulses counter-proportional to the downward energy of the gravity, they interract continuously with each other. However, I would like to comm
On the other hand, this psychocosmic model of mine isn't as 3D as it seems while trying to describe it. It somehow reconciles the contradiction pointed out by Dina K
(netherworld) vs Kalama (consensus reality) and the vertical model where Kur is below as the underworld. The mountains on the horizons are the edge of the known w
Pratchett's characters in his Discworld series ) The sorcerer's awareness should extend always to the horizons because there is where hir subjective known world en
so if I'm to do something magical/sacred and contact the numinous I go there to the edge of my known mundane world, there where one really feels mortal and in the
mountains - cliffs and abysses, caves where one may get really lost and there are also hidden vertical abyssal caves grown with bushes where one may fall down and r
to death by invoking Ereshkigal I'm ready to contact the numinous... sometimes running in panic to save my ass from the Lord Weather's furious imduguds, though En
well.
Ningishzidda Nov 2, 2010 at 1:06pm
Post by enkur on Nov 2, 2010 at 1:06pm
enkur As regards that mysterious temple-well in Thrace, one of my main magical arguments that this pure place still works today is the very fact that nowadays there is ther
e n e n enjoy a reservoir of fresh water there though they do not worship it. On the second picture a very pale sun ray is showing the exact location of the ancient temple-well
u r i a n when uploading my pics. This was Utu's discreet ray towards Abzu.
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Last Edit: Nov 2, 2010 at 1:10pm by enkur

The second one.
enkur
enenurian
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enkur Post by enkur on Nov 2, 2010 at 2:10pm
As for the intolerance in certain occult forums, it's due mostly to the unstable value system of certain forum owners who feel its foundament is under threat of crumbl
enen
u r i a n Satan when I was younger Well as some folks here say Mr. Sitchin' has stirred them to start seriously investigate Sumer, I have to admit that what firstly moved me
not seen here any comments thereon. For me this grimoire is an exclusively cleverly made 20 century fabrication in the form of an alleged 8th century grimoire in a p
ideology and inspiring the terror of the schizophrenic split in the human psyche caused by the cosmic conflict between "the Ancient Ones" and "the Elder Gods". Eve
and this over-exaggerated duality seemed to me somehow artificial and intentional, so I started to suspect there is some mystery hidden which eventually reveals that
from Enki/Ea's fan club when I mentioned about this possibility to them who were obviously firmly on the side of "the Elder Gods" in the coming aeon. Later, when I
they totally confirmed this suspection of mine. He also warns against these psycho-traps in the grimoire designated to lead the initiate to a mystic enlightement via the
An interesting moment for this thread is that in Simon's Necronomicon's version of Inana's Descent, it is not Neti but Ningishzidda who strippes down Inana stark nak
me somehow familiar when I first read Simon's Necronomicon. I remember a book of translated Babylonian poetry in my language but I'm forgetful.
And yes, you are quite right about the intelligence and eccentricity Neither could Enuma Elish, H.P. Lovecraft, Simon's Necronomicon and Zecharia Sitchin be hel
Posts: navigating one's own madness
516
Yes, I did read this quotation from that hymn to Nungal about the prison in respect of the owlet aspect of Inana.
madness Ningishzidda Nov 3, 2010 at 12:35am
e n e n u r i a n Post by madness on Nov 3, 2010 at 12:35am
I looked through the Akkadian version of the descent, and the gatekeeper is not named. Just called a generic "gatekeeper" (LU2.I3.DU8/atû).
Ningišzida does not even appear in the Sumerian or the Akkadian version of the descent. Simon obviously fudged this point.
Shambler
Posts: 415
enkur
enenurian

Thank you for the reference, Madness. Maybe at the time it just made sense for me associating Ningishzidda with my own experiences in the wilderness when
Posts: 516

Post by us4-he2-gal2 on Nov 6, 2010 at 8:07pm
Hello again Enkur:
Well, your caution is justified in using Sitchen of course, although I also believe sifting almost any material - with due caution - can potentially yield fruit. My p
sufficient linguistic justification for suggesting a different translation of the name. I can't remember, but I somewhat doubt he gives any footnote or reason why h
believe it. It seems like a convenient way to compare the tree in question with the Tree of Good and Evil or some such - with is probably what he does next but I
Anyway, I wrote a small note on Jacobsen's classic treatment of the name (Ningishzida = Lord of the Good Tree) on reply #3 of the following thread.
enenuru.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=269&page=1
us4-he2-gal2
Administrator
As for your model of the psychocosmos it is interesting, its not unlike my ongoing effort to construct an intellectual model or simulation that attempts to approx
layout that the text partially reveal from time to time. This effort reminds me to a small extent of that continually morphing grammatical model / construction th
us4-he2-
gal2 Avatar About the entwining serpents and their significance is found the problem to complex to add to my intellectual model. The significance of Ningishzida being outs
used to think it insignificant as the Adapa text has always been from late copies and so I thought it was a later tale less significant to Sumerian religious ideas - a
Posts: 1,699 unpublished. So a later tale will soon be considered an earlier one.
Utu may have passed through the Abzu on his way back up in the morning - I know scholars (i.e Alster) see the stars of the night sky as rising from below passi
You've got notions of the vertical an horizantal axis of Sumerian netherworld this is some pretty intricate scholarship associated with Katz - thats not bad at all i
As for the Necronomicon, you've seen its nature through your own intelligent inquisition and noted its short comings when it comes to accurately presenting wh
Assyriology done in the 1890s for his text translations that would be woven into his fiction - so even if he were trying to be accurate hes using material we no lo
in many place, given the infancy of the linguistic science. Enenuru has noted the work of J. Gonce , whose book is in a similar critical spirit:
enenuru.net/html/cuneiform_magic/maqluexpl.htm
Best Regards
us4-he2-gal2
Administrator
Post by us4-he2-gal2 on Nov 9, 2010 at 12:23pm
us4-he2-gal2
Avatar
Actually for the Sun and how it rises must track down the article by Heimpel called "The Sun at Night and the Doors of Heaven in Babylonian Texts" (JCS 28
Posts: 1,699
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Shambler (further remarks on previous page)

Ningishzidda Jan 7, 2010 at 4:19pm

Ningishzidda Jan 11, 2010 at 11:17pm

Ningishzidda Jan 15, 2010 at 12:08am

Ningishzidda Jan 23, 2010 at 9:17pm

Ningishzidda Mar 1, 2010 at 7:15pm

d nun-gal-e-ne dirig-ba ki-sikil dinana za3-mi2-zu mah-am3

Shambler 924 is an interesting looking snake.

3118 reminds me of the kabbalistic tree.

Ningishzidda Mar 13, 2010 at 5:33pm

d nun-gal-e-ne dirig-ba ki-sikil dinana za3-mi2-zu mah-am3

Ningishzidda Oct 29, 2010 at 3:03pm

Ningishzidda Oct 29, 2010 at 3:16pm

enkur Ningishzidda Oct 29, 2010 at 3:38pm

Ningishzidda Oct 29, 2010 at 4:08pm

Last Edit: Oct 29, 2010 at 4:10pm by enkur

Ningishzidda Oct 29, 2010 at 5:16pm

madness Ningishzidda Oct 31, 2010 at 12:54am

Ningishzidda Oct 31, 2010 at 8:30am

Ningishzidda Oct 31, 2010 at 10:19am

"95 A black kiškanu-tree grew in Eridu, created in a pure place,

50. lu2-be2-e-ne buru5mušen dnin-ninna2mušen-ta šu-ta šub-ba-gin7

Last Edit: Nov 2, 2010 at 1:10pm by enkur

Last Edit: Nov 2, 2010 at 1:08pm by enkur

Ningishzidda Nov 3, 2010 at 5:42pm

Ningishzidda Nov 6, 2010 at 8:07pm

Hello again Enkur:

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