Kwame Ture Interview
Kwame Ture Interview
Kwame Ture Interview
When Kwame Ture talks about politics, his voice gains strength. His tired
eyes grow lively. He sounds as if he's on a podium lecturing college students,
or at a news conference issuing denunciations and exhortations, instead of
where he is: lying wearily in a hospital bed at Columbia-Presbyterian Medical
Center, with fluids dripping intravenously into his thin left arm.
"The secret of life is to have no fear; it's the only way to function," Ture is
saying. "You just wipe it out." He's talking about another time and a different
threat, about registering black voters in such near-war zones as the
Mississippi Delta and rural Alabama in the 1960s, when he was still known as
Stokely Carmichael. He's not referring, directly, to the prostate cancer that
was diagnosed more than two years ago.
"We are revolutionaries," he lectures, slipping into the plural as leaders and
royals sometimes do. "We were aware of the fact that death walks hand in
hand with struggle. So sustaining myself in this period is not difficult. . . .
When you're trained that way in your youth, then in your elderly days it just
becomes habitual."
At 56, Ture is not really elderly. But he is seriously ill, and that lends a sense
of summation to his remarks, an air of leave-taking to the event that -- he
vows -- he will attend in Washington tonight.
The Friends of Kwame Ture Testimonial Dinner is expected to draw a
thousand people -- Howard University classmates, SNCC comrades, Black
Panther Party colleagues, well-wishers from across the country -- to the
Marriott Wardman Park Hotel. The mayor will be there (Marion Barry was
SNCC's first chairman), and so will Del. Eleanor Holmes Norton (D-D.C.) and
several other members of Congress, the ambassadors from Guinea and
Tanzania, and actor Wesley Snipes, who's producing a documentary about
Ture.
The benefit will draw people who would follow Ture through flame and also
those who, at one time or another, have opposed his positions, rued his
rhetoric, possibly cursed the day he was born. But none of that seems to
matter much anymore.
"You've got a lot of people who admire him. They don't agree with him, but
they admire him," says SNCC compatriot and freelance writer Charlie Cobb.
With his education, his will and his charisma, Stokely Carmichael -- old
friends use his names interchangeably and he doesn't seem to mind -- could
have been anything he wanted to, Cobb says. But "he chose this committed,
political life. That's what this testimonial is about."
Carmichael's forays south each summer, and again after his graduation in
1964, have inspired a lode of Movement lore. How he could execute a
smooth U-turn at 90 mph on a Mississippi road to evade a carful of pursuers
with rifles. How he corrected three Delta cops who stopped his car,
addressing him as "nigger" and "boy," with a lofty "Let me remind you, it is
Mr. Stokely Carmichael." (And got carted off to jail immediately afterward.)
How he and his SNCC cadre registered close to 4,000 black voters in
Alabama's murderous Lowndes County, where not one had been on the rolls
when the civil rights workers arrived.
Imagine the scene in June 1966: Carmichael had been elected chairman of
SNCC a few weeks earlier. James Meredith, who had integrated the University
of Mississippi, had been shot during his "walk against fear" from Memphis to
Jackson, and civil rights leaders had vowed to continue his march. When the
column of demonstrators reached Greenwood and tried to set up camp,
Carmichael was arrested again. Frustrated and furious after posting bond, he
rejoined the protesters and thundered that it was time to demand black
power.
"He asked the audience, 'What do you want?' " recalls Sellers, who was
there. "And the response, orchestrated by [fellow SNCC activist] Willie Ricks,
was 'Black power!' And it got to a crescendo. 'What do you want?' 'Black
power!' And everyone cheered and embraced him."
It was a phrase that, though he did not invent it, will be associated with the
young Stokely Carmichael forever. It electrified young blacks, frightened
many whites, commandeered the headlines. From his hospital bed more than
30 years later, Kwame Ture acknowledges that he was unprepared for the
reaction. "I didn't know it would spread so rapidly, like wildfire, embraced by
so many different circles of the African community," he says.
In the book "Black Power," published in 1967 and still in print, Carmichael
and Hamilton attempted to explain the term. "It is a call for black people in
this country to unite, to recognize their heritage, to build a sense of
community," they wrote. "It is a call for black people to begin to define their
own goals, to lead their own organizations . . . to resist the racist institutions
and values of this society."
However unremarkable it now sounds, at the time "black power" was "a very
troublesome cry to a lot of people, black and white," Hamilton recalls. To
many it implied separatism or reverse racism. And in ensuing months, as
Carmichael's speeches grew more threatening and civil disturbances leveled
swaths of Detroit and Newark, "it was associated with riots and guns and
'Burn, baby, burn,' " Hamilton says.
To Garrow, the way Carmichael handled the black power controversy "was
more destructive than constructive." For months, the movement and the
media became "caught up in this rhetorical game: What does black power
mean? Is it anti-white? Who's in favor? It's a completely unproductive cul-de-
sac."
Did his words, that militant yet ambiguous phrase, the repudiation of
nonviolence, hasten the fracturing of the Movement? Ture says such
questions "are really not fair. The knowledge I have now is not the
knowledge I had then." Then, he was turning 25; now, his hair and beard are
silvery. "I usually say I did the best I could with what I had. I have no major
regrets." As for those fearful whites, "the only thing they had to be
frightened about was that Africans would break out of the space prescribed
for them, and thus control of them would be far more difficult."
'Victory Is Inevitable'
Sometimes, sunk back against the pillows and assessing past and present,
he grins broadly, knowing that he has said something outrageous. At other
times he wags one finger to accompany a professorial-sounding lecture,
dense with Old Left allusions to the masses, the overthrow of capitalism,
armed struggle.
When a young friend hands him the telephone -- people call every few
minutes to see how he is -- Ture answers the way he has for decades, though
more weakly: "Ready for the Revolution." His other verbal trademark is a
brisk "Of course!," suggesting that the truth is glaringly obvious and doubt is
a waste of time.
"Of course!" He's talking, without much specificity, about the mistakes he
acknowledges. "Many many errors, from small tactical errors on
demonstrations to big political errors on the direction of the struggle."
Then he catches himself in the act of making one, of saying that black power
is "no closer to realization," and stops himself. "Closer," Ture says. "It is
closer, much closer."
Take the growth of the black middle class. It's anathema to one who has
denounced that class as racist and "anti-humanist," and who hasn't changed
his mind. "Of course! The masses don't shed their blood for the benefit of a
few individuals," Ture proclaims. "The only justification to accept [upward
mobility] is to advance the people's cause, not their own."
If his positions sound out of step, at variance not only with mainstream
thought but probably with the politics of many of his comrades, that's an old
story. Ture has rarely hesitated to go his own ideological way. In 1967, for
instance, he received "a letter of expulsion" from SNCC.
The urban paramilitary style of the Black Panther Party seemed more
hospitable to his revolutionary rhetoric. He spent about a year as the party's
"prime minister" before a split developed there, too.
Carmichael left for Africa in 1969 and soon became Ture. It felt like home.
"Always," he says. "I'm so far away from there; that's probably why I'm so
sick."
"I never felt so stupid in all of my life," Ture rages. "Here I was educated in
America, with all this technology at our fingertips, and I never knew what the
ritual was of a Muslim praying. No comprehension at all! . . . I blasted
American education for its imperialism."
Ture's heroes and mentors are two former presidents: Ghana's Kwame
Nkrumah, who'd taken refuge in Guinea after a military coup, and Guinea's
Sekou Toure; the new name he adopted paid homage to each. Nkrumah also
founded the All African Peoples Revolutionary Party, on whose behalf Ture
has spent several weeks each year touring U.S. colleges.
Back in the United States, there were those who felt Ture had marginalized
himself, left the battlefield. His influence waned with his diminished visibility,
and with the cultural and political changes in the country he'd left behind. "In
the '70s, he packed schools when he spoke" on U.S. campuses, says
Washington businessman and political consultant Ivanhoe Donaldson,
another SNCC veteran. "In the '80s, he was a little older and memories had
faded."
So much has changed and, to Ture, so little. He believes that the revolution
is en route -- could boil up overnight, in fact -- and that he has kept faith with
it. "In revolution as in so many things," he says, "people are not going to go
to the end of the road."
That's the one thing that no one, friend or foe, can say about him. "He
actually was able to stay in, to go the whole way, no break in the struggle,"
Sellers says. "He continued his whole life with that same intensity."
'A Warrior'
Ture's cancer -- which he is convinced was visited on him by the FBI, though
he cannot say how -- surfaced in 1996, and despite radiation treatment and
chemotherapy his doctors use words like "progressive" to describe it. A
group of friends arranged a "powwow" with him in New York last year, Sellers
says, and set up a fund to help pay medical and living expenses.
His friends say nothing could keep him from attending. "Kwame could have
27 bullets in him and give a press conference," says Ivanhoe Donaldson, one
of a sizable Washington contingent.
Ture has said he intends to return to Africa within a few weeks, and friends
don't know when they will have another chance to spend time with him.
"This will be an expression of gratitude," Sellers says. "You want to give
Stokely his roses while he can still smell them."