Time Period in Etabs

Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 6:03 pm Post subject: time period in etabs
Dear Sir/madam
what would be the difference if i go ahead with program calculated time period in etabs
instead of giving t from the eqn t=0.09h/sqrt d
which is recommended?
Dear Sir,
In ETABS or in STAAD, you should not use the program calculated time period but calculate
by formula. This is because we do not model the brick wall in the model but in real life, it is
present and adds to the stiffness of the building.
Dear Sefians,
I have come across a consultant where he asks to make use of formula 0.075h^0.75 for
calculation of fundamental time period whereas 0.09h/sqrt(d) is not applicable, for
considering brick infills/concrete block work. According to him we cannot consider
0.09h/sqrt(d) unless we are able to model it in our softwares like Etabs or staad pro. Is this
advice correct. Or can i make use of this formula 0.09h/sqrt(d) without being able to model
brick/concrete block connection in etabs or staad pro.
Kindly advice
Dear Mr. Despande,

The consultant is wrong. The code asks us to assume that time period for brick infill structure
BECAUSE WE CANNOT MODEL THE INFILL IN GENERAL. If we model the infill (in
STAAD, ETABS, etc), the structure would be stiffer leading to higher shear forces. But we
are not modelling it. Hence, we are underestimating shear force if we go by the software
calculated time period. In order to overcome this deficiency, code asks us to consider the
time period based on the empirical formulae depending on the type of structure.
Arun
Dear Arun,
I do agree with you. But when we are ignoring the brick infill and making use of the formula
0.075h^0.75, are we overestimating the earthquake forces and providing more steel?.
Moreover he has this argument that we cannot model the brick infill connection in model
hence during earthquake the brick infill and concrete connection(with beam and column) will
not be proper and will not add to any stiffness. I am pretty not convinced with this.
Dear Mr. Despande,
1. It is not relevant how we are modelling and what software we are modelling. The only
question is whether or not brick walls are used for the construction. If brick walls are used,
the empirically derived formula for time period of building with brick infill shall be used
(0.09h/sqrt(d)). If there are no brick walls, then the formula for building without infills shall be
used (.075xh^.75)
2. Just because we are not modelling the brink infill in the model does not mean that the
structure will behave as if the wall is not there. It is proven experimentally as well as through
modelling of brick infill as struts that the brick wall will enhance the stiffness of the structure
when compared to a bare frame.
3. Note that the clauses for the above calculations do not talk about modelling. They are
talking about the actual structure. In fact, all of the codes rarely talk about the actual
modelling.
Arun
More rigid the structure , less is the time period and more it will
attract the dynamic forces . Dissipation of energy gets less time
and hence the inertia force is more on structure.
A flexible structure has higher time period and will attract less
dynamic forces. Same energy is dissipated in comparatively
more time and hence the inertia force experienced by structure
is less. But at same time structure flexibility must be restricted
so that lateral deflections (drifts) shall not cross permissible limits.
Brick infills always add to the structural stiffness against lateral

forces and we must not run away from realistic situation by
ignoring the in-fills by saying that these are not rigidly attached to
rcc frame members.Therefore formula with infills needs to be taken
in the design.
For hall type structures , the brick infills are not present in the direction
of hall span and there, the infills can be ignored , being present only at
end frames.However same hall with EQ in long direction (i.e across span
of hall ) may be analysed using full brick infills presence since all columns
on both sides sandwich the side walls.
Structures with internal wooden or light weight partitions but

outer brick partitions could be analysed based on some average or
weighted average time period derived from two formulas.
just personal view, may be corrected for better understanding of concept.
best regds
vikramjeet
Dear Sefians,
This is my first post.
Regarding the discussion for time period calculation of Brick infill walls
Basically there are two methods of determining design lateral forces
First, Lateral Force (Static Method), Here we are required to calculate the Fundamental
natural time period(The first/Longest modal time period, & other shapes & natural modes are
not required) to get the Sa/g from the response spectra.
Also, the Time period for Brick infill wall Ta = 0.09xh/(sqrt(d)) is less compared with walls
without brick infill,Ta = 0.075xh0.75.
Here brick infill panels are not required to be modelled as the time periods for buildings with
or without Brick infills will take care of the design lateral force.
As correctly said by Vikramjeet sir,"More rigid the structure, less is the time period and more
it will attract the lateral forces"
Second, Dynamic Analysis Procedure (Modal Analysis)

Here the natural time periods for Brick Infill With/Without structure for different mode shapes
of vibrations are provided by the analysis software, and we need not to calculate them.
The magnitude of lateral force at a particular floor(node) depends on the seismic mass of
that node, the distribution of stiffness over the height of structure, and the nodal
displacement in a given mode.
The actual peak responses(member forces,displacements, storey forces, storey shears and
base reactions) of all the modes of vibration are combined/superimposed as per Complete
Quadratic Combination ( CQC ) Method, as per IS 1893.
Actually, the other or hidden part of the question is "How to model Brick Infill Walls for
Dynamic Analysis?"
According to various literature attached with this message, we need to model the
compression only diagonal members(as masonry is weak in tension) for infill walls in
between the columns(Lateral resisting members), the width of the diagonal struts can be
taken according to the formula mentioned.
According to IS 1893, Dynamic analysis of building has to be carried out including the
strength and stiffness effects of infill walls for themembers in Soft Storey, or design forces
modified for the soft storey members accordingly as per Clause 7.10.3.
Actually the structural engineers assume that these infills will nottake part in resisting any
kind of load other axial or lateral.However frames with infills have more strength and rigidity
in comparision to the bared frames.
Hence it is better to model the brick infill walls in Dynamic analysis
1) To reduce the lateral forces and

2) To avoid any unexpected torsional forces since the centre of rigidity is moved towards the
stiffer infilled frames, resulting in large rotations and displacements in extreme bare frames.
3) To account for Short Column formation, as the slender column whose clear height is
reduced by stiff masonry infill wall. Hence cause for the attraction of large forces.
Modelling of Brick Infill walls for Static Method of analysis is not atall required.

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Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 6:03 pm Post subject: time period in etabs

Dear Mr. Despande,

Dear Mr. Despande,

Brick infills always add to the structural stiffness against lateral

Structures with internal wooden or light weight partitions but

just personal view, may be corrected for better understanding of concept.

This is my first post.

Second, Dynamic Analysis Procedure (Modal Analysis)

Hence it is better to model the brick infill walls in Dynamic analysis

1) To reduce the lateral forces and

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