No.

2 Saturday
25 November 2023

MALAYSIA

PENYATA RASMI PARLIMEN

DEWAN RAKYAT

TWELFTH PARLIAMENT
SESSION OF SUNMUN 2023
SECOND SITTING
DR 25.11.2023 1
ATTENDANCE OF MEMBERS

9 JULY 2011

Members Present:

1. Yang di-Pertua Dewan Rakyat, YB Tan SrI Datuk SerI Panglima Pandikar Amin bin
HajI Mulia
2. Timbalan Yang di-Pertua Dewan Rakyat, YB Datuk Dr. Wan JunaidI bin Tuanku
Jaafar (Santubong)
3. Prime Minister of Malaysia and Minister of Finance I, YAB Dato' SerI HajI Mohd.
Najib bin Tun Abdul Razak (Pekan)
4. Deputy Prime Minister of Malaysia and Minister of Defence, YB Dato' SerI Dr. Ahmad
Zahid bin HamidI (Bagan Datok)
5. Minister of Home Affairs, YB Dato' Seri Hishammuddin bin Tun Hussien (Sembrong)
6. Minister of Human Resources, YB Datuk Dr. Subramaniam a/l K. V. Sathasivam
(Segamat)
7. Deputy Minister of Education I, YB Datuk Ir. Dr. Wee Ka Siong (Ayer Hitam)
8. Deputy Minister of International Trade and Industry I, YB Dato' Mukhriz bin Tun Dr.
Mahathir (Jerlun)
9. YB Tuan Salahuddin bin HajI Ayub (Kubang Kerian)
10. YB (Tuan Guru) Dato' SerI HajI Abdul HadI bin HajI Awang (Marang)
11. YB Dr. Michael Jeyakumar Devaraj (SungaI Siput)
12. YB Dato' HajI Tajuddin bin Abdul Rahman (Pasir Salak)
13. YB Tuan Mohamed Azmin bin AlI (Gombak)
14. YB Tuan Tony Pua Kiam Wee (Petaling Jaya Utara)
15. YB Tuan Khalid bin Abdul Samad (Shah Alam)
16. YB Tuan Chua Tian Chang @ Tian Chua (Batu)
17. YB Puan Teresa Kok Suh Sim (Seputeh)
18. YB Tuan Khairy bin HajI Jamaluddin (Rembau)
19. YB Datuk Bung Moktar bin Radin (Kinabatangan)
20. YB Puan Hajah Nancy bintI HajI ShukrI (Batang Sadong)
21. YB Puan Nurul Izzah bintI Anwar (Lembah Pantai)
22. YB Dato' Ibrahim bin AlI (Pasir Mas)
23. YB Tuan Lim Kit Siang (Ipoh Timor)

Members Absent:

1.

Members Absent under Standing Order 91:

1. Minister of Domestic Trade, Cooperatives and Consumerism, Dato’ Tan Lian Hoe
(Gerik)

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MINISTER’S QUESTION TIME

Question from SungaI Siput: im finally out of jail - this was initially directed to other
ministers
Response from Bagan Datok: standing order, there is no new pm
SungaI Siput: I mean timbalan pm, to the new timbalan pm, state measures time duration
the government intends to kuatkuasa freedom of speech and press
Bagan Datok: we will pass peaceful assembly act 2021 - to ans the ques, yes the
rancangan kerajaan to preserve freedom of press n speech is vital first step to freedom as
there can be no freedom fully or there will be chaos - this will not be democratic but anarchy
Marang: are u sure the bill will contradict will basic islam principles and become unjust to
peaceful protesters
Gombak: does deputy pm think bersih 2.0 is an anarchy movement
Bagan Datok: bersih 2.0 is illegal and has no permit
Marang: you are the one who label bersih illegal in the first place thats why they cannot get
permit, bersih is actually a democratic association
Bagan Datok: Pdrm deemed it was illegal and will cause havoc, therefore no permit,
therefore illegal
Gombak: does gov think rejection of permit is best way to address the issue
Bagan Datok: the permit was not rejected it wasnt given
SungaI Siput: what is the government plans to strengthen freedom or speech and the time
limit? You didnt answer the question
(sungaI siput and bagan datok cross talking)
Senator Dato’ Palanivel: you say 2021, so you say this is a ten year time frame
Bagan Datok: sorry slip of mouth

Question from Gombak: to pm and deputy pm but prefer pm, considering permit of Bersih
was rejected, what does gov propose the people do considering any avenues to protest are
blocked
Response from Bagan Datok: as we stated previously, if you want to have a rally, do it in
Selangor, why disturb businesses in KL, why not do in controlled environment such as
stadiums
SungaI Siput: bukit Jalil in KL, so can we do it here? 2nd, u say we can do at Pakatan
Rakyat, so if we do it at [stadium in selangor] will you allow
Bagan Datok: There is no application for permit at these stadium? so why bring up
hypothetical and strawman. Do it at your own state please
SungaI Siput: I am sad because this shows gov does not protect freedom
Bagan Datok: standing order 12 misleading info
Tuan Speaker: Sungaig Siput pls rephrase
SungaI Siput: gov has not shown commitment to freedom of speech and press
Bagan Datok: it is still misleading
SungaI Siput and Gombak: [chanting]
Bagan Datok: standing order, opposition saying something offensive
Tuan Speaker: pls tarik balik
SungaI Siput: I didn't actually say something I only said part of it
Tuan Speaker: but you shown intention to say it
Bagan Datok: SungaI Siput and Marang clearly don’t respect Tuan Speaker
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DR 25.11.2023 3
Marang: point of order
SungaI Siput: I respect Tuan Speaker’s order and tarik balik. Anyway, what are the plans by
gov? You have not cleared that up
Bagan Datok: I hope Gombak and Marang dont kacau, gov will introduce peaceful
assembly act 2011 to ensure all assemblies will be peaceful, we have seen in history that
uncontrolled protest have ended up bloody, gov support freedom of speech and assembly as
long as it doesnt cause harm, this is not a janjI but a pastI

Question from Pasir Mas: to Bagan Datok or Sembrong or Pekan, jika kerajaan
membenarkan isu macam Bersih untuk melakukan demonstrasi, does gov think they
melakukan hasutan kepada institusI negara n Melayu
Response from Bagan Datok: we don't allow Bersih to protest therefore it is illegal, gov is
discussing forming a plan to preserve rights of orang Melayu and adhere to constitution and
orang Melayu is priority but we will not leave out other ethnicities because we are 1Malaysia
Pasir Mas: is gov willing to accept any hero who are willing to counter protest Bersih
Bagan Datok: as of now no, gov has no intention for counter protest because it will cause
more chaos, rallies like this bring more bad even tho intention is good, we do not suggest
counter protest and we will not give permit
Marang: you said if bersih wants to do rally why not do in pakatan rakyat state. Does that
mean gov wants to push protests far away from the gov because you are afraid? Why are
you so afraid when they are fighting for basic demands?
Bagan Datok: why does Bersih want to do in KL? Businesses and traffic in KL will be
affected, Agong has said it brings more bad than good, you don't listen to Agong? If intent is
good, then no need to do in the middle of the road and disrupt public order. As gov we give
suggestion to opposition and Bersih (even tho they are kotor) you can do in [a bunch of
stadiums in selangor], don't do in KL

Question from Marang: to pm, do u believe malaysia is a country with high level of freedom
or press?
Response from Pekan: yes, I believe that we value freedom of speech and press
Marang: can u explain after 54 years of gov malaysia still ranked 141 out of 193 in global
press freedom ranking
Pekan: it is only to the extent it doesn't threaten national peace and security, gov is
committed in memastikan freedom selaras dengan menjaga kedaulatan
Bagan Datok: Marang where u get the statistics
Marang: it is from Freedom House, conducted in 2010-2011, I will send the doc to you, not
sure from which country
(Marang and Bagan Sadok cross talking)
Marang: that member is hand picking
Bagan Datok: why don't you let me finish my sentence, why you take this site of unknown
country of origin and didn't take any other sources, that is even more hand picking
Gombak: saya pelik kpd pihak kerajaan terutama Bagan Datok, tiba-tiba dia cakap rally inI
tidak selamat tetapI tiba tiba cakap jgn buat dI KL, semalam cakap rally inI bahaya tetapI
now say do elsewhere
Bagan Datok: I didn't say I encourage I just say don't do in KL, I only suggest to do
elsewhere
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Gombak: you don’t support then why you give suggestion
Bagan Datok: I didn't say I support, don't twist my words
[screaming between Gombak, Marang and Bagan Datok]

Question from Rembau: before I ask, I want to address the absent members, they want to
show that they are good yet they are absent, even tho I go protest but I also come gov
Tuan Speaker: pls keep this as a question
Rembau: I want to ask the protest that was cracked down, why don't we allow the protest to
be hosted even though we are doing it peacefully
Response from Pekan: walaupun rembau says the protest is peaceful, but every
demonstrasI that occurs in ibu kota negara will mengganggu public peace and instil fear in
citizens. When rakyat menjadI takut it will menggugat ketenteraman negara. Thus these
protests and counter protests will not be allowed sama sekalI

Question from Seputeh: to Bagan Datok, before this you suggest to change demonstration
location, but then you say they mengancam keamanan, so I want to ask why you suggest to
change location even though the gov should mementingkan kesejahteraan whole country
and not just capital
Response from Bagan Datok: if you heard my speech clearly, I also mentioned in stadium
as a controlled environment, the keyword is controlled environment, opposition doesnt
understand difference between controlled environment and the streets, if you do it in
controlled environment the police might approve and civilians passing by wont get approved
and might be approved
Gombak: I don't mean this as offence, but this is misleading, first you say cadangan, then
change location, then….
Bagan Datok: standing order, misleading the house
Tuan Speaker: gombak pls rephrase
Gombak: even if change to controlled location, bad things can still occur, you mementingkan
rakyat KL more than rakyat in PR states
Bagan Datok: I mementingkan rakyat malaysia, even tho injuries may still occur in
controlled environment, PDRM has freedom to investigate and take their own measurements
and maybe give permit
Seputeh: So you suggest to change to stadium, but doesnt that restrict freedom of
assembly? Also if you suggest in selangor does that mean they cant have protest in for
example perak
Bagan Datok: I didn't say perak cannot I just suggest selangor
Marang: why you so scared of protestors coming to KL
Bagan Datok: to protect protestors by being run over by cars
Tuan Speaker: please keep your questions as questions, if you want statement wait for
general debate

Question from Lembah Pantai: to minister of home affairs but seeing as he is not here, to
Bagan Datok, you stated Bersih 2.0 and counter protests are illegal, what are the
mechanisms used by gov to melindungI freedom of press and assembly?

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Response from Bagan Datok: it is up to home affairs and PDRM, I am minister of defence,
what can I do with the police
Lembah Pantai: as the newly appointed deputy pm, are you not aware of [interrupted]
Bagan Datok: how long did u take it to finish the federal constitution
Lembah Pantai: soalan tak relevan
Bagan Datok: reading a book that thick takes a long time, I got elected yesterday, I cant
finish everything in 1 night, allow me to discover more first and return to u
Marang: if you aren't ready why u accept the position of deputy pm
Bagan Datok: the documents in gov are secret and I can only access when I accept position
as deputy pm, are you suggesting I commit crime to see docs that I am not allowed to see
(screaming between lembah pantai, marang and Bagan Datok]
Marang: point of order 36 6, improper motives, I didn't ask him to commit crimes I just want
him to be ready
Bagan Datok: I will clarify, I just got elected, my time to prepare is limited, i'm not implying
improper motive, but marang is implying that before you become deputy pm you can take a
look at confidential documents
Tuan Speaker: I have to side with marang, marang did not imply you to commit crimes
Bagan Datok: ok I tarik balik
Lembah Pantai: did u know that federal constitution is supreme law of the land
Bagan Datok: standing order, improper motive, saying I didn't read the federal constitution
Lembah Pantai: banyak dokumen dan ambil masa to baca, did u say that?
Bagan Datok: that was not my question
Lembah Pantai: u r not consistent
Bagan Datok: you didn't answer how long you take to finish it, now you accuse me of things
Lembah Pantai: if you can't do such basic things, how were u elected
Bagan Datok: I was trying to make a point that my documents is this much

Question from Pasir Mas: saya nak ingatkan supaya dewan sabar dan tenang, inI bukan
budaya malaysia, sepatut kita sopan santun. My question to any relevant minister, is the gov
willing to recognize the Bersih movement as a terrorist movement and declare the leader a
terrorist?
Response from Pekan: terrorist is a big word, but we have enough evidence, then it will be
that
Gombak: standing order 36 10, treasonous word: terrorist
Tuan Speaker: terrorist is not
Pasir Mas: Does the government agree that Bersih is influenced by foreign agenda?
Pekan: as of now, there are allegations and we are still investigating but we will not accuse
blindly
Lembah Pantai: standing order 36 12, misleading bc pasir mas says bersih is a terrorist
movement
Pasir Mas:I didn't specify, I just ask of gov is willing to accept
Rembau: regarding pasir mas question, are u willing to arrest oppo leaders inciting chaos?
Marang: point of order 36 6, we not intend to create chaos
Rembau: I rephrase, if they cause chaos, will the gov be be willing to arrest
Pekan: this is a matter of ‘if’, investigation will be conducted and arresr if needed
Marang: can pm explain what it means by causing chaos
Pekan: do u want oxford dictionary
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Marang: I want your definition
Pekan: apa2 yg menggugat tenteraman n kedaulatan negara is chaos
Bagan Datok: cause disharmony among races and religions
Kinabatangan: what evidence would you need to consider Bersih a terrorist organisation
Bagan Datok: that will be provided by police under home affairs
Pasir Mas: will gov accept perkasa to help gov
Bagan: insya allah we will look into it and do background check later as of now we busy
discussing
Pekan: send relevant docs to headquarters

Question from Gombak: Lembah Pantai said constitution is thick n needs time to read
Bagan Datok: point of clarification, I said a thick book, not just constitution, don't use this as
personal vendetta
Gombak: so you say you will ans after you read that means you haven't read
Bagan Datok: standing order, misleading, he imply I didn't read constitution, I was referring
to documents not constitution
Gombak: so are you confident as deputy pm?
Bagan Datok: I am standing here because I am confident and I know I can take the job,
what oppo is doing here is using asking questions to throw accusations, no standard
Gombak: but you said this jawatan is a big burden
Bagan Datok: I said it is a beban doesn't mean I cannot carry, leading the country and being
ahlI dewan rakyat is a challenge, we don't overcome these challenge by rejecting but
embracing it
(Marang and bagan Datok cross talking)
Bagan Datok: jgn buat kacau when im answering, tak hormat langsung, we are discussing
something urgent, what is pembangkang doing? I am giving ans pls dont interrupt, people
are out there trying to get themselves killed but the opposition is wasting time

MOTION OF A DEFINED MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

Motion by Bagan Datok: Move to discuss a defined matter of urgent public importance on
freedom of assembly, freedom of the press and freedom of speech.

Decision by Collection of Voices. Motion passes. House moves into General Debate.

GENERAL DEBATE

Chair opens for speeches. kinabatangan, jerlun, pekan, segamat, pasir mas

Speech by Bagan Datok: Berish 2.0 although gov has tried to stop, the illegal rally has
begin. As of now gov has put military and riot officers called “membersihkan kekotoran”. I
find it very flabbergasting if oppo doesn't understand that we are trying to protect civilians
and shop lots and to protect protesters from being brainwashed. Have received info Bersih
motives wants to overthrow gov
Marang: point of order 36 6, oppo does not want to overthrow gov its just a protest
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Bagan Datok: we sending troops to protect people n ensure peace, gov has to be
responsible and sending troops is most responsible way

Bagan Datok yields to Chair.

Speech by Batang Sadong: we should keep in mind the root cause is the public thinks their
opinions are not respected. But there are public channels to voice out, there's no need to
protest on streets. Oppo does not put in enough effort to get what they want and now rely on
Bersih instead of going through a proper channel. Please jaga sensitivitI kaum dan negara
but when dikenakan tindakan, all bising, but this is just the consequences of ur actions. Just
bc u have good intent doesn't mean will have good ending. U buat kacau will make it harder
for vulnerables to make ends meet,

Batang Sadong yields to Chair.

Chair opens for motions.

Motion by Gombak. Move for suspension of the House until 11:00 a.m..

Motion passes. House is suspended until 11:00 a.m..

—BREAK—

Debate resumes. Chair opens for speeches.

Speech by Lembah Pantai: in addressing freedom of assembly, press and speech, we can
clearly see gov trying to distract us with pelbagai isu yg tidak sepatutnya diutarakan di
Dewan Rakyat such as opposition is wasting time and he doesn't recognize opposition
responsibility to address this issue. He said that Bersih protest want to overthrow gov but
does not recognize their demands such as electoral reform. Allegation from gov that Bersih
is sole effort from opposition is wrong bc 62 NGOs are also involved and 10k people
attending, which shows that they are demanding freedom of speech. Also YB Pasir Mas is
doing a protest but they are claiming to having a bigger number

Lembah Pantai yields to Chair.

Speech by Kinabatangan: I'm disappointed in PR for promoting illegal protest. This is

hypocrisy from people who are supposed to serve the country. As Bagan Datok said, our job
is to protect citizens, and Bersih is a threat to the citizens

Kinabatangan yields to POIs.

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POI by Marang: Kinabatangan, you are handsome, but do you think the rally the old rally in
Pasir Mas was also a threat to national security?
Repsonse by Kinabatangan: i am not aware of that, im very aware actually, but i love this
rally
Marang: dont u think it’s hypocritical to support Pasir Mas rally with bigger number but not
Bersih
Kinabatangan: your rally is a threat for national security

Speech by Jerlun: we don't like Bersih not because we don't agree with their ideas and
principles, but because of how they're doing it. Matlamat tidak menghalalkan cara, Bersih
has been rioting in streets, blocking roads and closing shops, indirectly halting the economy.
So i fully support gov restrains on Bersih. I support ideas proposed by deputy PM for next
Bersih protest to be done in stadium as at least police can control any problems that happen.
Imagine BERJASA, counter protest to Bersih, imagine both protesters met in the streets and
will fight. Thats why we need to support any and all action by ministry of home affairs to
prevent riots and bersih 2.0 from ever happening.

Jerlun yields to POIs.

Marang: do u condemn action from Pasir Mas

Jerlun: he is member of gov, however he has his personal stance, i cannot comment

Speech by Pekan: perhimpunan haram Bersih sedang berlangsung. Kerajaan tidak akan
berdiam jika rusuhan berlaku. Bersih is not a majority and only has 10k people even though
oppo quotes that 50k people have joined. I have berulang kali memberitahu bahawa this
perhimpunan only seeks to menghentikan momentum kerajaan BN. we will carry out the task
of menjaga keselamatan. This perhimpunan is membimbangkan because macam2 perkara
boleh berlaku kepada rakyat eg tercedera. Kerajaan bersedia untuk apa apa yg berlaku. Kita
patut menghormati perlembagaan and undang2. If they are not dipatuhi kerajaan bersedia
untuk mengambil tindakan

Pekan yields to Chair.

Speech by Segamat: our brains don't fully develop until 28 y/o. the first Bersih rally caused
difference in political landscape. But most of the protesters are easily impressionable young
people.
Rembau: standing order 26 8, insulting the youth by saying they are immature
Tuan Speaker: Rembau are u below 28
Rembau: no but the people i represent are
Segamat: BN has won the people’s hearts every election, the public has chosen us, once
Bersih start rallying, they manipulate young people to believe gov does not work for the
people

Segamat yields to POIs.

POI by Senator Dato’ Palanivel: u mention brain not fully develop till 28, do u feel rembau’s
statement constitutes support of grooming
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Response by Segamat: not relevant
Senator: but do u feel that's the case
Segamat: no
Senator: haihhh

Speech by Pasir Mas: it is illegal for seditious intent to bring in hatred against
administration justice in malaysia. Bersih 2.0 is questioning the institutions and elections in
malaysia. Bersih jeopardises elections. Without elections we won’t have opposition, none of
us will be here, to quote the gazette, selamat tinggal najib and rosmah. This chant is against
national sovereignty. It jeopardises legitimacy of gov. Some say their rally is unconstitutional.
We are fighting for democracy whereas Bersih is just a foreign influence.

Pasir Mas yields to Chair.

Speech by Pasir Salak: I am addressing the recent decision of some colleagues to not
come. They attend the Bersih rally. While they recognize their efforts they must also
recognize the democratic process. Do the people not attending not know or pretend not to
know. It is essential to acknowledge our primary responsibility to bring people’s voice to the
correct channel.

Pasir Salak yields to Chair.

Chair opens for motions.

Motion by Gombak: Move the House to a recess for 15 minutes.

Decision by Collection of Voices. Motion fails.

Objections from members. Decision by Division.

Members for (No.): 8

Kubang Kerian
Marang
Gombak
Lembah Pantai
Batu
Seputeh
Petaling Jaya Utara
Shah Alam

Members against (No.): 10

Pekan
Sembrong
Ayer Hitam
Segamat
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Jerlun
Batang Sadong
Pasir Salak
Rembau
Kinabatangan
Pasir Mas

Motion fails. House reverts to motions.

Motion by Pasir Mas: Move for the establishment of a Special Chamber on declaring Bersih
a terrorist movement for 12 minutes with an individual speaking time of 90 seconds.

Decision by Collection of Voices. Motion passes.

Objections from members. Decision by Division.

Members for (No.): 4

Rembau
Kinabatangan
Pasir Mas
Kubang Kerian

Members against (No.): 14

Pekan
Sembrong
Ayer Hitam
Segamat
Jerlun
Batang Sadong
Pasir Salak
Marang
Gombak
Lembah Pantai
Batu
Seputeh
Petaling Jaya Utara
Shah Alam

Motion fails. House moves into General Debate.

Speech by Marang: [reciting Quran] do not let hatred of people prevent you from being just
and fear Allah. This verse tells us that we must be just and fair. PM knows that Bersih is a
rally that demands gov to take action, not terrorism. pm or gov has not voiced out against
Pasir Mas for organising a rally. Please take this verse into consideration

Marang yields to Chair.

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Speech by Rembau: I am appalled by segamat for insulting the youth but I will let u go cuz
we friends. Yesterday me n the boys had a counter protest peacefully but we were stopped.
Right now Bersih 2.0 is trying to enter stadium merdeka. We understand that gov have good
motives to stop our protest but to prove they are impartial they should stop the Bersih
protests now as it affects the stability. I also want to point out that Ipoh Timor went to protest
and also came to dewan, white there are those that did not. Instead of discussing this in a
civil way, they ponteng dewan to buat kacau

Rembau yields to chair.

Speech by Seputeh: minorities have been sidelined. Pekan says that Bersih is just a
minority, but does that mean we only care about the majority? Also segamat says that youth
are being manipulated, but does that mean those youth are not proper working resources
with their own say?
Pekan: you have salah faham, i didn't mean minority voice is not important, however their
suara has been manipulated to overthrow gov, while the majority have joined counter
protests
Seputeh: we are not trying to overthrow, we just want to voice our thoughts
Marang: are you aware that gazette is funded by 1malaysia and therefore biased
Pekan: standing order
Senator Dato’ Palanivel: gov is not fully funding we simply provide grants so that they can
provide more in depth reporting, we are not controlling
Pekan: standing order 36 6, marang says maikan gazette is biased
Tuan Speaker: but maikan gazette is not a part of the government
Seputeh: we are trying to focus on the minority, while majority is Malay and muslim, why is
the minority not important?

Speech by Gombak: Bersih 2.0 terjadi because gov doesnt want to menjalankan tugas
untuk mendengar suara rakyat. Demand kita sangat senang
Jerlun: we have lost 2.6 billion in national GDP
Gombak: this is off topic, demand rakyat is something important to democracy, but u want to
focus towards money, however i think rakyat is more important than foreign investors

Gombak yields to Chair.

Speech by Ipoh Timor: all of gov speeches didn't give any examples and steps such as
suggestions being taken by gov. Opposition thinks that opposition members are being
arrested but no gov members are being arrested. That is unfair. For example in the printing
press, gov should amend law by stating that media can still have license without getting
registered under home affairs to prevent obstacles held by gov to restrict rights of press to
publish those news especially whistleblowers. They cannot silence media with opposite or
neutral stances.

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Ipoh Timor yields to POIs.

POI by Rembau: so we should open to media even tho they insult minority
Response by Ipoh Timor: kerajaan is the one that insults minorities

Chair opens for motions.

Motion by Gombak: Move for the establishment of a Special Chamber on the

trustworthiness of the Maikan Gazette for 15 minutes with an individual speaking time of 90
seconds.

Decision by Collection of Voices. Motion fails.

Objections from members. Decision by Division.

Members for (No.): 9

Kubang Kerian
Marang
Ipoh Timor
Gombak
Lembah Pantai
Batu
Seputeh
Petaling jaya Utara
Shah Alam

Members against (No.): 10

Pekan
Sembrong
Ayer Hitam
Segamat
Jerlun
Batang Sadong
Pasir Salak
Rembau
Kinabatangan
Pasir Mas

Motion fails. House reverts to motions.

Motion by Pasir Mas: Move for the establishment of a Special Chamber on Bersih disrupting
national security for 12 minutes with an individual speaking time of 90 seconds.

Decision by Collection of Voices. Motion passes. House moves into Special Chamber on
Bersih Disrupting National Security.

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SPECIAL CHAMBER ON BERSIH DISRUPTING NATIONAL SECURITY

Proposer: Pasir Mas

Duration: 12:00
Individual speaking time: 1:30

Speech by Pasir Mas: i urge this dewan that this demonstration not only disrupt national
security but also questions legitimacy of gov and aims to incite unrest amongst malaysians
and make the country more disunited. Do they know the incident in 1969 and 1985. I would
like to remind this Dewan to take into account measures to curb this demonstration

Speech by Segamat: PDRM spokesperson notes increasing rowdiness, windows broken

and valuables stolen. This breaks my heart because small businesses fight so hard and its
just gone. Please take into consideration that ppl are getting violent and Bersih needs to be
stopped asap

Speech by Gombak: Pasir Mas talks about 13 may 1969 but he himself buat rally. But the
difference between us and 13 May is that we are fighting for something betul: democracy.
Tuku abdul rahman says our country is negara democratik and we continue because it is the
correct thing to continue. To Segamat, Jerlun, Pasir Salak, they always talk about duit but we
mementingkan rakyat. We won’t merosakkan demokrasi untuk mendapat lebih duit.

Speech by Jerlun: [reciting Quran] which means read, read, read. In the gazette, the rioters
are a threat to national security. Gombak and marang talk about fairness, but while Bersih
has good intentions, if you block roads and destroy the economy, our children will pay for
what we are doing right now. We lost 2.6 billion, that could have be used to eliminate poverty

Speech by Ipoh timor: Bersih 2.0 is peaceful. Chaos is caused by interaction from gov. Gov
disallow permits and send brutal police to control the rally. Even if it is chaotic, it is trying to
attract international attention on how gov handle the issue and fail to protect freedom of
speech and assembly. Bersih 2.0 spread awareness that gov is not transparent and
accountable. They have not taken any actual steps until citizens sacrifice themselves just to
voice out. This is important for oppo to voice out not just in parliament and media but also
around the world

Speech by Sembrong: a peaceful assembly does not mean lawful. If you want to assemble,
obtain a license. Respect law whether or not you like it. Police will enforce laws against
everyone, Bersih and counter rallies included. Fundamental freedoms are not absolute and
gov can have laws to limit these freedoms. If these rallies cause injuries, such as the officials
injured in fighting, we must take actions to disperse as it is disturbing peace and stability. If
Bersih wants electoral reforms, send it through correct channels

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Speech by Shah Alam: Bersih is not a threat, have emphasised non violence. Remind
dewan to respect the right of freedom of speech and assembly. Bersih focuses solely on
electoral reform for a more trustworthy electoral system and not to undermine gov system.

Speech by Pekan: to requote Jerlun, intention doesn't justify means. Bersih rally has
caused massive destruction in KL and threatens national security. Oppo keeps saying
democracy however there are other ways to uphold such as sending letters instead of
unlawful rallies. Oppo mentions international awareness, so we want history to repeat itself?
We want Malaya to repeat itself? We do not want international intervention
Ipoh Timor: gov is not accountable, we should unite as oppo to voice out

Speech by Rembau: i emphasize that oppo has been talking about how Bersih is a
constructive way for electoral reform, however I think they are not communicating with their
people because the protestors are clearly using violence such as throwing bricks. If oppo
thinks that such is non violence they don't deserve to be oppo, they should understand what
is a constructive way to resolve issues, such as debate in parliament and passing bills, not
ruining the economy. i don't know what the oppo is thinking that Bersih is peaceful, clearly
they are destructing national security

Special Chamber elapses, House reverts to General Debate.

GENERAL DEBATE

Speech by Pekan: I agree with Rembau, is merosakkan harta benda and menutup periuk
nasi rakyat yang susah payah sesuatu yang menghalalkan Bersih? No, Bersih is unlawful.
There are always other ways to uphold democracy, as Gombak keeps chanting abt. I also
want to point out that in 1 day we lost 2.6 billion ringgit which could have been used to give
better lives to those who need such as the poor and those who live in pedalaman. However
investors are losing trust on us and yet oppo is still supporting Bersih. To address Ipoh, i
dont mean majority and minority in terms of race but in terms of those who join the rally.

Pekan yields to Chair.

Speech by Lembah Pantai: hujah2 kerajaan have only proved hypocrisy. They say Bersih
is illegal yet one of their members are in the same protest. This can also be seen through
pasir mas protest.
Rembau: standing order 36 6, improper motives. Accuse me of hosting violent protest
Tuan Speaker: Lembah Pantai never said it was violent, not sustained
Lembah Pantai: they are using only 1 source, the maikan gazette, which is biased
Pekan: u can feel free to share any other sources
Marang: are you aware that dewan rakyat wifi only allows access to maikan gazette
Pekan: do u have vpn
Marang: but vpn can be used for illegal activities
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Lembah Pantai yields to Chair.

Speech by Segamat: to Seputeh, about people below 28, all i want to say is that they can
form thoughts and opinions but they are easily swayed at that age. Why must we allow
Bersih theatrics to affect how the gov operates? If they used proper channels, it will definitely
be taken into consideration. However, causing loss to public is not the way. However we
recognize some of their demands are valid and are working to address it.

Segamat yields to POIs.

Pasir Mas: do u agree that even tho we conduct rallies we are still committed to serving the
people?
Segamat: your rallies do not pertain to the agenda but since you attend the Dewan it shows
that you are.

Speech by Ayer Hitam: as education minister, i am disappointed and agree with Pasir
Salak that so many in the oppo are participating in illegitimate ways to protest. The youth are
the next generation, instead of condemning their small mistakes, we should guide them and
set ourselves as examples and lead them to a more diplomatic way of resolving things.

Ayer Hitam yields to Chair.

Speech by Jerlun: rioters have started to target chinese, this is May 13 happening in next 2
or 3 days. Malays and Islamists are-
Marang: standing order, PAS is not associated with those rioters
Tuan Speaker: Jerlun please rephrase
Jerlun: rioters that align with PAS policies because they are Malay and muslim
Marang: well you are muslim also
Jerlun: ok i tarik balik. Back to the point, we need to control Bersih before it get worse. As
long as they are on the streets, there will always be counter protests. They will loot chinese
shops and harm chinese people. Its not just about malay lives and national security but it is
about all lives. Oppo has to admit that Bersih has to stop as it has done nothing but bad
things

Jerlun yields to Chair.

Speech by Pasir Mas: when i reminded malaysians to stay home on 9 july, this is why.
Second article in Maikan gazette, this has brought to unrest and perselisihan negara. I would
like the gov to take into account ISA and police acts where the gov must take immediate acts
to remove bersih. As much as oppo says bersih is fighting for a peaceful cause, they are
backing bersih violating the peace when they can speak in parliament. I myself join rally but
also come to parliament. Bersih undemocratically express their opinion and violate the
peace
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Pasir Mas yields to chair.

Speech by Batang Sadong: to address Gombak speech in special chamber, he says we

only think about money and not the rakyat? are we not talking about the rakyat? There are a
lot of aspects to think about that the oppo doesn't take into account. Gombak said “im a
man” but can you not think further? We do our job as gov, you still need to do your job.

Batang Sadong yields to chair.

Speech by Rembau: our country is democratic, our democracy is not perfect but if you think
so please bring it into the parliament not the streets, we will listen. I understand you want
change but you need to discuss it politely in parliament instead of unlawful violent rallies.
You dont want our countries to fall into ruins, please condemn the rally
Marang: please show permit for Pasir Mas rally
Rembau: my rally is not violent like yours

Rembau yields to Chair.

Speech by Shah Alam: Jerlun says Bersih causes problems and scare away investors.
However Pekan was deputy PM, why didnt you apply their demands back then to prevent
this from occuring

Shah Alam yields to Lembah Pantai.

Lembah pantai: gov keeps citing maikan gazette but that news source is biased
Batang sadong: if there are other news sources, why does oppo also only use maikan
gazette?
Lembah pantai: if we are given chance to access other media we will, but right now we can
only access maikan gazette
Gombak: we use maikan gazette because we respect gov but we dont say it is betul. We
ask that the gov use other sources.

Gombak yields to Chair.

Speech by Ipoh Timor: is Bersih lawful? According to gov, no, because no permit and no
peace. But permit is issued by gov and if they dont want to listen to their demands so they
wont give permit. Gov has also not addressed anything in PPPA and ISA. these laws should
be amended or abolished. State funded media are most likely affiliated with gov.

Ipoh Timor yields to the Chair.

Chair opens for motions.

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Motion by Pekan. Move for suspension of the House until 2:00 p.m..

Motion passes. House is suspended until 2:00 p.m..

—BREAK—

Debate resumes. Chair opens for speeches.

Speech by Marang: i am sad that Bersih rally has escalated to violence. PAS condemns
violence that hurts malaysian security and public order. However i would like to go back to
the article about how looting is done by largely Malays. However, how can you know that
those looters are linked to PR and Bersih? Also, Maikan gazette is a questionable source of
news funded by 1Malaysia and possibly biased. These press statements may not always be
taken seriously. PM should change maikan gazette to trustmebro.com. Also how is the rally
organised by pasir mas and rembau a legal rally? This is double standards, as the gov did
not voice out about those rallies
Pasir mas: point of order, misleading the house. Marang says i have no permit, my permit is
right here.
Tuan Speaker: Sembrong please verify the permit
Sembrong: yes there is a permit
Rembau: standing order, marang is trying to say that we are trying to incite violence due to
our protests, yet our protests arent violent even though it is illegal, therefore it is bad
intention
Tuan Speaker: marang did not state any improper motive towards any MP. that standing
order is not sustained.

Marang yields to Chair.

Speech by Gombak: in response to Jerlun, yes we need stop Bersih but that doesn’t mean
it won’t occur again. We need to stop it now and in future. However, it is not salah
pembangkang but also salah kerajaan juga. Kerajaan should agree with bersih demands
which are electoral reforms. If they do then there will be no more Bersih rallies, yet Pekan is
unwilling, because they just want to win and they just want money. We will send
memorandum

Gombak yields to Chair.

Speech by Pasir Salak: these illegal rallies have more bad than good such as local
businesses forced to close. How to compensate on such losses? I also dont understand
some members of council who are absent, why dont they use a legal way to resolve this?

Pasir Salak yields to Chair.

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Speech by Kinabatangan: my condolences to 25 deaths in rallies. This affects growth in
our community and caused terror to the citizens we should protect. PR failed to protect
citizens and dont deserve to be in power.

Kinabatangan yields to POIs.

POIs by Jerlun: if you read maikan gazette, Bersih has been classified as a terrorism. Do
you think we should control flow of info especially to oppo which has indirectly benefitted
from Bersih?
Response by Kinabatangan: i believe yes

Speech by Ayer Hitam: what has happened is the start of a major chain of events. We need
to help society’s most vulnerable. We need to take action immediately and introduce
legislations that protect the lives instead of fighting about who is responsible.

Ayer Hitam yields to Chair.

Speech by Batu: is there any possible democratic way other than rallies if gov controls
freedom of speech assembly and press? Gov can say Bersih is a threat and not approve it.
How can we allow citizens to voice out, every member of parliament can voice out, why cant
citizens?

Batu yields to Chair.

Speech by Kubang Kerian: condolences to victims of Bersih. While foreign investors are
important, what good are they if corruption laws arent enforced and the money isnt going to
the people? You say bersih is stopping economy, but they are being held in chinese markets
that support the movement
Jerlun: did we say we support protests in PERKASA
Segamat: most oppo MPs also attend the protest, what is your point

Kubang Kerian yields to Chair.

Speech by Seputeh: what happened could have been prevented if we have addressed to
the agenda. Members of gov also states that there are a lot of things to handle, however the
focus should be on the people. I understand that there are many portfolios however we
should look at the people not the foreign investors. The people dont want to change the
government but because they see a flaw there
Marang: do you agree that anyone has the right to criticise the government
Seputeh: yes
Pasir Mas: so do you believe oppo MPs should come to parliament instead of going to
rallies?
Seputeh: i am positive that those MPs have voices out previously however no changes have
been made
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Seputeh yields to Chair.

Speech by Pekan: my condolences to the losses and their families in the protests. These
protests could be avoided and ministers here should bring up the voices of their people
instead of the people having to bring it up themselves. Gov will provided allocations to the
families of the deceased. A task force for electoral reform will be created by the gov

Pekan yields to Chair.

Speech by Segamat: my condolences to those affected. The casualties mean that was this
really a peaceful protest? Plus, many oppo MPs were involved, are they inciting violence?
While we understand public has demands, there should not be loss of precious lives. Also, if
we have addressed those issues, how could the outcome have been different?

Segamat yields to POIs.

POI by Gombak: considering they have a lot of condolences, if the opposition were to send
a memorandum to end this once and for all, will you accept? To end tension between bersih
and gov
Response by Segamat: that will be discussed among ourselves

POI by Sungai Siput: what is the possibility that there are bad actors who want to ruin
image of Bersih?
Response by Segamat: i dont think bad actors would cause that many casualties

Speech by Batang Sadok: -

Batang Sadok yields to Jerlun.
Jerlun: electoral reforms are brought up over and over. They also mention has they want to
give memorandums, those will be discussed among gov. However, the main reason Bersih
became so violent is because they are the ones propagating the violence. Worst of all,
Sungai Siput said that people in bersih are bad actors.
Sungai Siput: just to clarify, there may be bad actors outside bersih infiltrating them to make
them seem bad
Jerlun yields to Segamat.
Segamat: Bersih created the atmosphere for this to happen, they are responsible
Jerlun: gov doesnt have incentive for bersih to become violent as it will not benefit us
Bagan Datok: it doesnt matter if bersih has good intent, what matters is not intent but
outcome. Right now the outcome is 24 civilian deaths, what more do u want

Speech by Pasir Mas: i am sad that Bersih has killed civilians and police. Our rally is a fight
for democracy while as i stated yesterday Bersih has shown it’s true colours. Gov must take
stern action in not letting this repeat, gov must scratch down and take stern action against
this
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Sungai Siput: you say you condemn Bersih, yet PERKASA was also accused of instigating.
Do you condemn them?
Pasir Mas: no, what PERKASA did is clean
Sungai Siput: how can u be so sure?
Pasir Mas: they have reported that they have not killed anyone

Pasir Mas yields to Chair.

Chair opens for motions.

Motion by Pekan: Move the House to a recess for 20 minutes.

Decision by Collection of Voices. Motion passes. House moves into recess.

RECESS

Proposer: Pekan
Duration: 20:00

Recess elapses, House reverts to General Debate.

GENERAL DEBATE

Chair opens for speeches.

Speech by Rembau: as oppo has accused me of many things, i would like to clarify that i
believe in free speech on acceptable level, if not why i go out to protest? To some degree
early on i sympathize with Bersih, however i condemn the way they did it. When our
ancestors used free speech to fight for independence there was no dying and huge
economic impact like Bersih. I cannot sympathize a protest that leads to violence and
destruction of people’s lives. We as parliament should ensure that we smoothen the process
of protest.

Rembau yields to Chair.

Speech by Jerlun: In response to accusations from oppo, gov does not condone any
violence by either sides. Some members of gov has conducted illegal rallies. However, there
is diff between peaceful rallies and rallies that cause loss of millions of ringgit. Bersih is an
act of terrorism and we should take certain measures because some in the oppo have been
encouraging these protests, saying that what they are doing is fine.
Marang: you condemn both sides, does that mean the permit shown by Pasir Mas just now
is fake?
Jerlun: for clarification i am just talking about Rembau.
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Speech by Bagan Datok: [reciting PAS propaganda fighting colonisers and how the
propaganda has caused the memali incident]. In history and just yesterday, uncontrolled
protest will lead to peristiwa berdarah. Freedom of speech and assembly must be preserved
but controlled or else Bersih 2.0, May 13 and peristiwa memali will happen again.

Bagan Datok yields to Chair.

Speech by Sembrong: Bersih 2.0 has been dispersed and other such protests will be
dispersed. Gov has to rights to refuse permits but is aiming to pass bills for peaceful
assembly without arms. However it will be subject to other restrictions to ensure safeties.
The right for freedom of assembly is not absolute to prevent racial disharmony and prevent
May 13 incident from happening again.

Sembrong yields to POIs.

POI by Pasir Mas: do you agree that gov must memperkasakan ISA so that isu bersih wont
timbul lagi?
Response by Sembrong: this is not an issue that needs to be resolved now

POI by Marang: why is the permit shown the day after the rally
Response by Sembrong: i believe he forgot to bring during the day of the rally

POI by Seputeh: if gov says they are looking to amend laws about permit, however this is
only happening now when things have only got violent? The gov also mentioned alot about
peaceful protest but who decides what is safe? Will all this be dependent on the police?
Because alot of this happening is still happening under control of gov
Response by Sembrong: to define peaceful, Bersih is no longer peaceful as it has caused
harm. As for the electoral reforms, we will leave that to the committee formed by the gov
Bagan Sadok: you says our actions are reactionary yet a few days ago it was oppo who was
encouraging Bersih rally

Speech by Gombak: massive protests against Bersih run by Pasir Mas and PERKASA, a
few days later you see articles about malay looters attacking chinese businesses, so it is not
Bersih that started the violence

Gombak yields to Sungai Siput.

Sungai Siput: oppo is disappointed that gov is quick to point blame to Bersih but no
condemnation for violence towards PERKASA, Bersih was not the only one participating on
rally. Would gov even (time has elapsed)

Speech by Sungai Siput: before i continue my points, i am happy i am free from prison.
However 5 PSM comrades are still stuck in prison
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Bagan Sadok: who are they? Have you considered they are there because police deemed
that they did something wrong
Sungai Siput: no, they were accused of actions against Agong but there is no such thing.
What i am trying to say is we shouldn't be quick to blame the violence on someone

Speech by Kubang Kerian: [quoting casualties in Bersih] however they did not state the
cause of death, and it may have been from police brutality due to rubber bullets or tear gas
Bagan Sadok: standing order, misleading accusation of police brutality
Rembau: rubber bullets and tear gas aren't know to kill people
Tuan Speaker: Kubang Kerian already clarified that it is an ‘if’ but Rembau has stated they
don’t kill people so you have to tarik balik that point
Kubang Kerian: can I say the wounded is caused by rubber bullets and tear gas
Bagan Sadok: if you want to talk about ‘if’ but i can also say the injuries are cause by
trampling
Jerlun: are you willing to let violence and disorder stay on the streets
Kubang Kerian: violence doesn't come from a vacuum, if i was being shot by rubber bullets,
i would do the same in self defence

Kubang kerian yields to Chair.

Speech by Pasir Mas: PERKASA has by no means caused any deaths. Even if they were
influenced by some external force, a reasonable man wouldn't agree to those demands.
PERKASA fights for democracy yet but Bersih fights for their own wants
Senator Dato’ Palanivel: you brought up ambiga but not mariah chin, are you racist
Pasir Mas: i condemn mariah chin’s actions as well
Senator Dato’ Palanivel: why didn’t you bring it up earlier
Tuan Speaker: Senator please tarik balik seeing as there is no evidence of racism
Senator Dato’ Palanivel: ok i tarik balik

Speech by Pekan: saya sudah mengumumkan special allocation or rm10 million to families
affected by Bersih 2.0 and rm20 million to reconstruct buildings that were destroyed. Kubang
Kerian mentioned police brutality, however the police was only there as preemptive
measures and they had to take action due to what happened to prevent further escalation.
On seputeh’s question on the task force, it will be a fair one and members will be
background checked. Members will be revealed soon

Pekan yields to Chair.

Chair opens for motions.

Motion by Gombak. Move for suspension of the House until 4:00 p.m..

Motion passes. House is suspended until 4:00 p.m..

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—BREAK—

Debate resumes. Chair opens for speeches.

Speech by Segamat: I would like to refer to what Seputeh said about how gov is taking
reactionary active rather than preventive. This is ignorant as we have not given permit as we
know it would never have been peaceful. Regardless of permit, outcome would most likely
be the same. In regards to bad actors, the damage has been done regardless of whether or
not they were there.
Sungai Siput: as gov do u think it is your responsibility to give people avenues to voice out
grievances
Segamat: it is but Bersih already has a bad rep and shouldnt be encouraged further

Segamat yields to Chair.

Sungai Siput: there is always a reason for violence, the fact that gov doesnt entertain
possibility of police brutality shows that gov only wants to accept narratives that work in their
favour instead of ones that serve justice. 54 years of governing yet people’s calls of reforms
are consistently rejected. PSM condemns all racial and religious rhetoric. That is why we
choose to remain an independent front, however it would like to state its commitment for a
united opposition front to confront bigger issues in front of us.

Sungai Siput yields to POIs.

POI from Rembau: you say people are mad because we lost majority, but we are still gov.
what s your pov on that?
Response by Sungai Siput: it shows that you have lost support as gov

Speech by Bagan Datok: to respond sungai siput, we are still gov. We are all here today bc
this is our job. In times of crisis like this we should work together. Election is over, so for now
stop trying to topple gov and smear us with things like Bersih is an inside side
Sungai Siput: Standing order 36 6, improper motives. Accuse oppo of attempting to topple
the gov
Tuan Speaker: that is in order, bagan datok pls rephrase
Bagan Datok: lets properly serve our fellow constituents and cooperate instead of using
rhetorics and strawmans

Bagan Datok yields to POIs.

POI by Seputeh: u mention oppo shud work together with gov, yet in same statement you
use divisive language. So what are you trying to do
Response by Bagan Datok: so do you wanna work with us or oppose us

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Speech by Batang Sadong: the people we are appointed to take care of are the ones
suffering the most. Bersih seems just to be a movement to boost some people’s ego. It is
now time to go back to reality and base accusations on fact.
Sungai Siput: are you basing your accusations on fact?
Batang Sadong: we havent accused anyone of anything
Jerlun: I would like to remind everyone of peristiwa melalang. They are trying to purify
Bersih 2.0
Sungai Siput: narratives pushed by gov should serve the truth not for their own narrative
Jerlun: we are serving the rakyat yet you are trying to blame the police
Sungai Siput: that is still a possibility

Speech by Rembau: oppo keeps saying gov doesnt give other mediums but oppo should
revise. Bersih and leading MPs in the movement should take care of their people, then all
this wouldn’t have happened. MPs in Bersih also avoided their parliamentary duties, where
is the responsibility. The fact that so many people still died despite so many MPs there
shows their failure to control a few thousand people, how can they even control a country

Rembau yields to Chair.

Chair opens for motions.

Motion by Sembrong. Move for the introduction of a Government Bill.

Decision by Collection of Voices. Motion passes. House moves on to First Reading.

FIRST READING OF BILL

Proposer: Sembrong
Type: Government Bill
Link:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wnkB5tjhaC46wfwhTeKjBZvbEHDYclnw1y62j0Jkdzs/e
dit?usp=sharing

Allocated reading time: 10:00

Motion by Bagan Datok. Move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Motion passes. House moves to Second Reading.

Objections from members. Decision by Division.

Members for (No.): 11

Pekan
Bagan Datok
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Sembrong
Ayer Hitam
Segamat
Jerlun
Batang Sadong
Pasir Mas
Rembau
Pasir Mas
Kinabatangan

Members against (No.): 9

Kubang Kerian
Marang
Gombak
Lembah Pantai
Batu
Seputeh
Sungai Siput
Petaling Jaya Utara
Shah Alam

Motion passes. House moves on to Second Reading.

SECOND READING OF BILL

Speech by Gombak: im proud to see gov taking action on this issue that has stood for
decades. People have been crackdowned and oppressed and rejected the right to free
speech. PKR would like to focus on the freedom on free speech where Sungai Siput was
detained when giving a speech
Bagan Datok: Standing order, Sungai Siput was pointing the middle finger
Tuan Speaker: i did not see, not sustained
Sembrong: the security act is not related to this bill

Gombak yields to Sungai Siput.

Sungai Siput: shame on gov, this bill is an insult to democracy and the rakyat who yearn for
change. PSM opposes this bill entirely and will look to amend alot

Sungai Siput yields to Chair.

Speech by Pekan: sungai siput says shame on gov, but i would like to say shame on sungai
siput for supporting Bersih. This bill is a collective effort of gov ministers which protects
sovereignty of country and protect well being of people. This bill consists of 4 parts: right to
assembly without arms, responsibilities of organiser, participants and police, requirements
for assembly and enforcements. All members should understand the importance of each
clause which aims to protect peace
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Pekan yields to Chair.

Speech by Sungai Siput: is gov not ashamed for submitting a bill that insults the rakyat
Bagan Datok: standing order 36 4, we are insulted that he says the bill is insulting
Tuan Speaker: please allow sungai siput to clarify
Sungai Siput: this bill insults democracy, it doesnt regulate but rather limits and restricts
Bagan Datok: standing order, he called the bill insulting without clarification
Tuan Speaker: Sungai Siput please try to criticize bill constructively
Sungai Siput: bill is mediocre
Bagan Datok: standing order, misleading the house saying the bill does nothing
Sungai Siput: it’s my opinion that it does nothing to
Tuan Speaker: Bagan Datok i am restricting your privilege for standing order
Sungai Siput: so basically what this bill does is limit the amount of peaceful assemblies that
can be health. Participants must provide a lot of personal info which is a clear violation of
their privacy. Right to assembly and privacy should not come into conflict with each other

Sungai Siput yields to Chair.

Speech by Sembrong: after so much complaints about permits and police, we introduce
this bill that does so. I urge everyone to see section 5 where we affirm the right to assembly.
Section 6 also safeguards interest of personnel. Part 3 also defines role of police and
organisers. Yet sungai siput complains about sollecting info, but these info is for the interest
of the participants in case of death and injury. This also prevents assembly from being
disrupted unless it goes out of hand. This bill also removes application of permit but rather
notification so police may provide assistance.

Sembrong yields to Chair.

Speech of Marang: i am unwell and recovering from possession of syaitan. In part 2 no 5

1a and 2a mentions non citizens participating an assembly to be an offense. In Marang there
are Indonesian people who are permanent residents who i believe have the right to organize
and attend assemblies because they are members of the community. Therefore permanent
residents heavily involved in community and love malaysia should be allowed to organize
and participate rallies
Sembrong: why not just give these permanent residents citizenship
Marang: maybe they dont want to remove their citizenship. A person who loves malaysia
should have a right
Senator Dato’ Palanivel: a foreign citizens should only have the right to participate in their
country’s politics, why meddle in malaysia’s

Speech by Bagan Datok: oppo may say gov is hindering freedom of free speech but that is
not true. They may say this is politically motivated to shut down oppo but everything that
happens in this country is politically motivated. We want to maintain political stability and
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benefit the nation as a whole. This act is not draconian it is a necessary act to protect
people. I urge everyone to vote for this bill, as freedom that isnt controlled will cause chaos.
Sungai Siput: standing order, using offensive language by calling oppo budak
Bagan Datok: we are all children of malaysia, i clarify that now
Tuan Speaker: are u satisfied with the explanation
Sungai Siput: no
Tuan Speaker: Bagan Datok tarik balik the word ‘budak’
Bagan Datok: i tarik balik the word but my intention is the same

Chair opens for motions.

Motion by Marang: Move the House to a recess for 10 minutes.

Decision by Collection of Voices. Motion fails.

Objections from members. Decision by Division.

Members for (No.): 9

Marang
Ipoh Timor
Gombak
Lembah Pantai
Batu
Seputeh
Sungai Siput
Petaling Jaya utara
Shah Alam

Members against (No.): 12

Pekan
Bagan Datok
Sembrong
Ayer Hitam
Segamat
Jerlun
Batang Sadong
Pasir Salak
Rembau
Kinabatangan
Pasir Mas
Kubang Kerian

Motion fails. House reverts to motions.

Motion by Bagan Datok. Move that the Bill be now committed to a Committee of the whole
House.

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Decision by Collection of Voices. Motion passes.

Objections from members. Decision by Division.

Members for (No.): 7

Pekan
Bagan Datok
Sembrong
Ayer Hitam
Jerlun
Batang Sadong
Pasir Salak

Members against (No.): 14

Segamat
Rembau
Kinabatangan
Pasir Mas
Kubang Kerian
Marang
Ipoh Timor
Gombak
Lembah Pantai
Batu
Seputeh
Sungai Siput
Petaling Jaya utara
Shah Alam

Motion fails. House reverts to second reading.

Speech by Pasir Mas: i feel bangga that the gov is committed to menangani isu and taking
into account deaths of civilians caused by Bersih demonstrations. For clause 5, gov affirms
rights to assembly, oppo who says gov is depriving them of rights is right. For clause 8 citing
responsibilities of participants, i believe a clause must be added that MPs participating must
also come to parliament and represent their people instead of their personal interest.

Pasir Mas yields to Chair.

Speech by Rembau: welcomes the introduction of bill because it give leniency to the
people. It is strict and can use amendments but it is a welcoming sign. The opposition calling
this bill shameful and opposes it is ridiculous and shows that they support violence. Police
are struggling to identify reasons for deaths, does oppo want another Bersih or 13 May? I
condemn oppo and urge them to support the bill with amendments, as their condemnation
only shows their lack of cooperation and lack of care towards citizens. Also Marang’s
comments to let permanent residents participate in assemblies is ridiculous
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Rembau yields to Chair.

Speech by Segamat: i don't understand what opposition wants. We have taken their
criticism yet they still say it is a shame. This bill ensures freedom of assembly but to a
certain degree. Bersih cause destruction on a national level and should not be repeated
again. Gov and oppo should reach a consensus together. The provision of personal info
ensures who is responsible and someone can be contacted in case of emergency. In
regards to marang’s comments about permanent residents, will u have same stance for
westerners joining protests to spread western influence
Marang: of course i would condemn that

Segamat yields to Chair.

Speech by Jerlun: addressing link between bersih 2.0 and israel, Bersih has received
funding and weapons from israel. Thus i would like to fully support this bill and allow
participants to undergo background checks and allow for police to disperse any rallies that
may cause harm. We cannot have our country become a battleground for proxies. This is not
just a matter of lives and economy but also our sovereignty. If you dont support the bill, you
can be considered a traitor

Jerlun yields to POIs.

POI by Kinabatangan: what are the logistics for doing background checks for every
participant, why not just do it for organiser
Response by Jerlun: yes but we cannot leave things to a matter of chance

Speech by Sungai Siput: this act is an act that is mediocre because as we have seen in
the past, BN gov has used excuses of protecting peace to use acts like this to preserve their
own interests
Bagan Sadok: standing order, misleading
Sungai Siput: ok i tarik balik. But it gives the police unprecedented power to crackdown
protests and take any measures necessary. Police can use this to abuse power on the
people, if you dont put regulations on them how can you expect police to not abuse power

Sungai Siput yields to Chair.

Speech by Gombak: about link between israel and bersih, it is a possibility but not
confirmed. Tidak pasti, jangan kongsi. Jerlun says we need to do background check but it
will be very time consuming.

Gombak yields to Sungai Siput.

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Sungai Siput: oppo believes the bill if actually meant to preserve interest of people yet it
clearly restricts freedom of people

Speech by Bagan Datok: oppo says we dont care about freedom, now we present the bill,
yet you complain. We give you freedom while ensuring safety, setting up guidelines for
rallies. We’ve set up a system for protests without threatening safety. Regarding Bersih, a lot
of oppo are in the frontline with mariah chin and ambiga. Is this saying that these members
of oppo are friends of israel?

Bagan Datok yields to Chair.

Speech by Ipoh Timor: i am disappointed towards gov for pushing misinformation. These
accusations are not linked to their ideas towards Bersih
Bagan Sadok: standing order, misleading info. We are just stating what is in the news
Tuan Speaker: Ipoh Timor pls clarify
Ipoh Timor: gov shud address ideas of Bersih 2.0 and not accusations related to Bersih 2.0
Bagan Datok: it doesnt matter what is the intention it is the effect. The effect is civilian
deaths, therefore we are introducing this bill
Ipoh Timor: i will clarify part 3 clause 8 has a lot of problems such as feeling of ill will
disturbing public calm. I believe if there is a rally there are 2 sides of opinions. Freedom of
speech consists of agreeing and disagreeing. I believe that this clause must specify
definition of ‘feeling of ill will’

Ipoh Timor yields to Chair.

Chair opens for motions.

Motion by Pasir Mas. Move for suspension of the House until 6:00 p.m..

Motion passes. House is suspended until 6:00 p.m..

—BREAK—

Debate resumes. Chair opens for speeches.

Speech by Pasir Salak: i would like to emphasize asking for personal info of rally
participants. It is to ensure safety of individuals and the economy. This prevents casualties
and knows the organisers intetions. This also ensures that rallies are organised out of love
for malaysia. It seems like oppo doesnt want organisation of rallies. Dont they want
minorities to be heard?

Pasir Salak yields to Chair.

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Speech by Pasir Mas: this bill allows assembly to be held while bloodshed does not occur.
Referring to a clause sungai siput disagreed on, i believe the clause upholds freedom of
assembly and dont see why he disagree. This bill is not draconian and prevents any further
incidents like Bersih from reccurring.

Pasir Mas yields to POIs.

POI by Marang: do you agree that people heavily involved in community should have right
to participate in rallies?
Response by Pasir Mas: as long as they follow mechanisms set by gov

Speech by Bukit Gelugor: i want to remind all in article 5 paragraph 1 section 2, regarding
the age limit of participants of rallies
Rembau: taking at look at section 5, someone commits an offense if they organize under
age of 21, but there is no limitation for (interrupted)
Bukit Gelugor: (citing article 5)
Sembrong: in section 5 2, anyone below age of 18 cannot participate, anyone between age
18 to 21 can participate but not organize

Speech by Seputeh: i would like to elaborate on Marang’s point on permanent residents,

we do not need them but they live in this country and are part of our community, so their
opinions deserve to be heard.
Batang Sadong: if they want to be represented why dont they change citizenship
Seputeh: citizenship is a complicated process
Bagan Datok: they are not workers or citizens why should we support them
Seputeh: because they are still subject to the laws in Malaysia

Seputeh yields to Chair.

Speech by Pekan: police are given power to interfere rallies. If an assembly is peaceful they
won’t need interference. We have the minister of home affairs to oversee the police force to
prevent abuse of power
Sungai Siput: how can we truly guarantee police wont abuse power if there are no
restrictions in the act and just rely on the good will of the minister
Sembrong: in section 21 and 22 of the act, there are specific circumstance for when they
can arrest or interfere in an assembly, such as possession of arms and participant being
under 18, so there are many limitations to police power

Pekan yields to Chair.

Speech by Sembrong: regarding Marang’s concerns on non-citizens, if permanent

residents want to participate in protests, please ask them to apply citizenship. Regarding
why it doesnt extend to non-citizens is because we don’t want foreigners to intervene in local
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DR 25.11.2023 32
matters. Our neighbouring countries prohibit non citizens to obtain permits for protests, such
as singapore
Marang: but those permanent residents live here and abide to the laws here
Sembrong: any foreigner participating comes with a risk

Sembrong yields to Chair.

Chair opens for motions.

Motion by Sungai Siput: Move to provide for a personal explanation for 5 minutes.

Decision by Collection of Voices. Motion fails. House reverts to motions.

Motion by Pekan: Move to provide for a personal explanation for 5 minutes.

Decision by Collection of Voices. Motion passes.

PERSONAL EXPLANATION

Proposer: Pekan
Duration: 05:00

Speech by Pekan: -

Pekan yields to Chair.

Personal explanation elapses, House reverts to General Debate.

Chair opens for motions.

Motion by Bagan Datok. Move that the Bill be now committed to a Committee of the whole
House.

Decision by Collection of Voices. Motion passes. House moves into Committee Stage.

COMMITTEE STAGE

Amendment from Pasir Mas.

Link:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GyHsMy71pXYXcNl25BSMgOiC2SLznM8u-IMI4E949
hg/edit?usp=sharing

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DR 25.11.2023 33
Speech by Pasir Mas: This amendment will address how MPs do not have an excuse to not
be present in parliament due to assembly unless they inform the speaker beforehand. Being
absent goes against their responsibilities as an MP

Friendly amendment - automatically passes

Amendment from Jerlun.

Link:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/12xr0OjmuPWPZGfuN2Vxgw8_oask00W5FToCud3VK
kS8/edit

Speech by Jerlun: regarding connection to Israel and Ambiga’s arrest, this section is added
to monitor activity of foreign governments in our country. Alot of foreign govs are trying to
undermine our national sovereignty. This new organisation, MEIO will conduct cross
checking and supply info of suspicious individuals to be detained. This may be draconian but
we live in a dangerous world

Friendly amendment - automatically passes

Amendment from Gombak.

Link:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/11UiVNl7uiss-ry9CF_T7nK9URzamLjcexJJlNwhUuK4/
edit

Speech by Gombak: when people enter Malaysia, they are subjected to laws here. So for
gov to say someone who is subjected to the law cannot do the same thing that the public
can do, sure there is risk of foreign influence, however the court can still punish them.

1 for and 2 against

Speech by Bagan Datok: foreigners are subject to our laws but they are not taxpayers, so
they are not subject to same privilege
Sungai Siput: standing order, misleading. Foreigners do pay tax
Bagan Datok: income tax
Tuan Speaker: foreigners do pay income tax
Bagan Datok: ok i tarik balik. But we have special rights for orang Melayu, foreigners do not
have that. Why should they share the same privilege? Secondly, let gov do our job, gov has
burden that oppo has never held before. We berjuang untuk nasib rakyat malaysia

Speech by Sungai Siput: we must understand that while foreigners come and go, there are
many who live here for decades. Even though they cant vote, does that mean they are of
lesser status? No. saya rasa hairan because they pay their taxes and serve the country, how
are we supposed to see them?
Bagan Datok: standing order 41 e towards Gombak
Tuan Speaker: gombak has already been told to silence

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Sungai Siput: i understand that protests shouldnt occur in certain places like parliament and
schools but why is there a limit of 50 meters? What if one day BN becomes pembangkang
and want to protest? We believe they should be allowed to do so
Bagan Datok: standing order, offensive language
Marang: he did the same thing just now
Tuan Speaker: he didnt actually say anything

Speech by Sembrong: regarding the 50m restriction, do u want people to protest near
hospitals, schools, electricity generation station? No. regarding foreign citizens, look at the
case of a singaporean woman suing the sultan of Pahang and she was not allowed as
Singapore also does not allow foreigners to sue Singaporeans.
Marang: there are multiple occasions of protests in places like Australia participated by non
citizens
Sembrong: not all countries grant that

Voting on amendment by collection of voices. Amendment fails.

Chair opens for motions.

Motion by Bagan Datok. Move for suspension of the House until 9:00 a.m. tomorrow.

Motion passes. House is suspended until 9:00 a.m. tomorrow.

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