the great complainer

American economists like Paul Krugman and Maurice Obstfeld deny that foreigners can drive US internal imbalances, but if Chinese consumption responds to Chinese policies, this means that by controlling its trade and capital account, Beijing drives not just China’s internal imbalances but also its external imbalances (the two must always be perfectly aligned). But if Chinese policies can drive its external imbalances, they also drive the external imbalances of the rest of the world and, like it or not, “the rest of the world” might include the US.

@raginrayguns Pettis today; I think Krugman can still claim that Reagan is responsible for the imbalances by noting his role in financial deregulation? or there is this commentary:

Tax differences also influence international capital flows. Both defenders and critics of the Reagan administration’s 1981 tax cuts agree that they caused increased capital inflows during the eighties. Defenders argue that U.S. investments became more profitable after tax than non-U.S. investments, both to U.S. investors and to foreign investors, while critics argue that large federal deficits drew the capital inflows.

but the timeline in China is something like this:

1976: Mao Zedong dies
1978: Deng Xiaoping takes power
1979: first special economic zone, joint ventures, foreign investment
1984: price liberalisation and moves away from central planning

this led to the biggest economic turnaround in world history:

In the pre-reform period, industry was largely stagnant and the socialist system presented few incentives for improvements in quality and productivity. With the introduction of the dual-price system and greater autonomy for enterprise managers, productivity increased greatly in the early 1980s. Foreign enterprises and newly formed Township and Village Enterprises, owned by local government and often de facto private firms, competed successfully with state-owned enterprises. By the 1990s, large-scale privatizations reduced the market share of both the Township and Village Enterprises and state-owned enterprises and increased the private sector’s market share. The state sector’s share of industrial output dropped from 81% in 1980 to 15% in 2005. Foreign capital controls much of Chinese industry and plays an important role.

From virtually an industrial backwater in 1978, China is now the world’s biggest producer of concrete, steel, ships and textiles, and has the world’s largest automobile market. Chinese steel output quadrupled between 1980 and 2000, and from 2000 to 2006 rose from 128.5 million tons to 418.8 million tons, one-third of global production. Labor productivity at some Chinese steel firms exceeds Western productivity. From 1975 to 1992, China’s automobile production rose from 139,800 to 1.1 million, rising to 9.35 million in 2008. Light industries such as textiles saw an even greater increase, due to reduced government interference. Chinese textile exports increased from 4.6% of world exports in 1980 to 24.1% in 2005. Textile output increased 18-fold over the same period.

This increase in production is largely the result of the removal of barriers to entry and increased competition; the number of industrial firms rose from 377,300 in 1980 to nearly 8 million in 1990 and 1996; the 2004 economic census, which excluded enterprises with annual sales below RMB 5 million, counted 1.33 million manufacturing firms, with Jiangsu and Zhejiang reporting more firms than the nationwide total for 1980. Compared to other East Asian industrial growth spurts, China’s industrial performance exceeded Japan’s but remained behind South Korea and Taiwan’s economies.

Reagan cutting taxes, running deficits, and raising interest rates obviously had an economic effect but China changing from a Maoist backwater to the industrial powerhouse of the world surely had more of an impact (and of course Japan, Korea, and Taiwan also maintained their export surplus throughout this period).


squishy333:

argumate:

squishy333:

argumate:

raginrayguns:

raginrayguns:

from like a fiscal perspective george w bush was just so bad… remember the budget surplus? That may have been wiped out by the recession at the beginning of george w’s term in any case, but he went through with cutting taxes despite that, then started expensive wars for apparently no benefit. Possibly created some of the trade problems that led to the Trump victory, I mean the federal budget deficit is larger than the trade deficit, part of what’s going on is that china’s loaning the US all the money, basically trading goods for an IOU, idk how it compares to other factors but it’s the right order of magnitude at least so it’s one of the big considerations. Like trade deficit is like a trillion, budget deficit is over a trillion. Iraq and afghanistan were multi-trillion dollar wars each so just those is the magnitude of years of the deficit

oh yeah and the housing bubble and the subprime mortgage crisis. Idk the govt role exactly or how much the president matters for that tho we do have this weird thing in the US where mortgages basically come from the govt in some way. I don’t rly get it

bad financial regulation aside, the US has crumbling century old infrastructure that badly needs upgrading while it was blowing trillions on pointless projects in Iraq and Afghanistan; presumably America today would be a lot richer if 25 years ago it had been rebuilding all the bridges and tunnels that now won’t be finished until 2035 or whenever.

I love the optimism of 2035

hey I did say “or whenever”, I know how these things go!

Fair and reasonable!

As a dispirited American I would’ve personally ended that sentence after “won’t be finished.”

So I sardonically “love” the “optimism” but also, it feels legitimately optimistic to me.

I think American infrastructure projects do get finished, eventually, they just start later than they should and take twice as long as planned and cost ten times as much as expected, but they do get finished.


youzicha:

Kindof ironic that George W. Bush was the one who finally killed the Agreed Framework. Like, his signature foreign policy accomplishments include

  • Spending trillions of dollars on a war to keep a dictator from getting weapons of mass destruction
  • Going, “eh, whatever, that dictator can have some nuclear weapons”

personally I put not restarting the Korean War on the plus side of Bush’s ledger and Iraq on the negative


argumate:

finestoftheflavors:

argumate:

a lightsaber is basically a switchblade katana

Imagine a world in which laser swords are common, but the typical laser sword is always on, you put some kind of sheath over it when you’re not using it. The lightsaber that can be turned on or off at will is seen as transgressive, illegal in most jurisdictions, a sign that you’re planning some kind of surprise violence, carrying one marks you as a criminal.

An elegant weapon from a more civilized age? More of Obi-Wan’s bullshit. That’s the dishonorable weapon of an assassin. The civilized Jedi knight would carry a laser sword that’s plainly visible in a dimly lit room even when sheathed, a laser sword that hums constantly to the point that you can hear the moment the Jedi walks into a crowded room. When a Jedi knight was coming to get you, you knew.

the neon whiffle bat, an elegant weapon for a more civilised age


squishy333:

argumate:

raginrayguns:

raginrayguns:

from like a fiscal perspective george w bush was just so bad… remember the budget surplus? That may have been wiped out by the recession at the beginning of george w’s term in any case, but he went through with cutting taxes despite that, then started expensive wars for apparently no benefit. Possibly created some of the trade problems that led to the Trump victory, I mean the federal budget deficit is larger than the trade deficit, part of what’s going on is that china’s loaning the US all the money, basically trading goods for an IOU, idk how it compares to other factors but it’s the right order of magnitude at least so it’s one of the big considerations. Like trade deficit is like a trillion, budget deficit is over a trillion. Iraq and afghanistan were multi-trillion dollar wars each so just those is the magnitude of years of the deficit

oh yeah and the housing bubble and the subprime mortgage crisis. Idk the govt role exactly or how much the president matters for that tho we do have this weird thing in the US where mortgages basically come from the govt in some way. I don’t rly get it

bad financial regulation aside, the US has crumbling century old infrastructure that badly needs upgrading while it was blowing trillions on pointless projects in Iraq and Afghanistan; presumably America today would be a lot richer if 25 years ago it had been rebuilding all the bridges and tunnels that now won’t be finished until 2035 or whenever.

I love the optimism of 2035

hey I did say “or whenever”, I know how these things go!


raginrayguns:

@argumate wait can you repeat why you’re so dismissive of Krugman’s take that the US federal budget deficit caused the trade deficit? I thought you said something about the timing but it seems to work out

budget deficit since 1900

image

trade balance since 1800

image

the spikes in 1940 don’t work out but that’s cause the US ran a deficit during the war and then invested enormously in postwar europe. Then budget deficit and trade deficit are both small, then they both pick up in the 80s, which is when republicans started creating huge deficits by cutting taxes–reagan, then w. bush, then trump (though the trade balance graph doesn’t cover trump)

EDIT: @argumate i remembered, cause it continued at low interest rates

the mechanism he proposes connecting budget deficit to trade deficit is interest rates, right? as in:

Americans institute low tax / high spending -> budget deficit -> interest rates rise -> attracts foreign capital investment -> foreigners build factories and orient their societies around export growth

so if we’re investigating this by eyeballing graphs I think you want these pairs of graphs:

(budget deficit, interest rates)
(interest rates, foreign capital inflows)
(foreign capital inflows, foreign trade imports)

if the competing hypothesis is this:

foreigners industrialise and push exports -> America deindustrialises and takes imports

then the question is whether we can distinguish these mechanisms by looking at the same graphs and trying to judge the timing, or if there is more illuminating data to consider


Avatar
Anonymous:

I kinda perceived Vetinari to be sort of a psychopath who takes IMMENSE pride in being able to achieve things no one else could by means no one else thinks of or dismisses outright bc it's too unlikely/difficult. Hence the relatively bloodless dictatorship, the "Oh I never give orders, I just suggest things and people are all too happy to oblige" attitude etc. Like he's not actually trying to help the city for the sake of the people, it's just his vanity project that he CAN run it cleanly.

Avatar
argumate:

yes that seems plausible!

argumate:

kvothbloodless:

While this is definitely intended as like, a potential read, its also (imo) intended to be a false impression. Thats the persona he projects, but we so see numerous instances that indicate he does actually love the city.

we do! but then we also see instances of him keeping up appearances even in situations when he knows nobody is around…