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== Water colors ==

By origin, as I understand it, water color is based upon a railtrack crossing: {{bsq|WASSER}} {{color||{{0|00}}|bg=#007cc3}} <tt>#007cc3</tt> (light blue), and afterwards we use the "u" (underground) prefix & color to signify navigable water: {{bsq|uSTR}} {{color||{{0|00}}|bg=#003399}} <tt>#003399</tt> (dark blue). All fine so far (except when one wants to show the New York underground after the Sandy water flow ;-) ). Now there enters a third shade of blue: the disused underground track: {{bsq|uexSTR}} {{color||{{0|00}}|bg=#6281c0}} <tt>#6281c0</tt> (another light blue).<br/>
My question is: what (lighter blue) color do we use for non-navigable water?
* {{color||{{0|00}}|bg=#007cc3}} <tt>#007cc3</tt> (light blue 1) {{bsq|WASSER}} 
* {{color||{{0|00}}|bg=#6281c0}} <tt>#6281c0</tt> (light blue 2) {{bsq|uexSTR}}
-[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 21:12, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
:WASSER serves a different purpose than the uexSTR icons as used by canal projects. Obviously we need both available because uexSTR means "former light-rail track" in railway icons, which has nothing to do with water whatsoever. [[User:Circeus|Circeus]] ([[User talk:Circeus|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 16:03, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
::Yes, is what I wrote. Still. uSTR has to do with water (by BSicon usage evolution). If uSTR is used for water, then uexSTR is in it too. Alternative: reproduce all uexXXX and uXXX for water (WASSER and NAVIGATABLEWASSER) in a full separate set. -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 21:20, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
::Whether we like it or not, {{bsq|WASSER}} and {{bsq|uexSTR}} are used for the same (unused/unnavigable water). What to do? -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 23:25, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
:::Nothing. When they start being ''actually used'' in conflicting way (Which I don't see happening any time soon), someone will bother coming up with an actual proposal. And I say that as someone who worked for a couple month on an all-encompassing naming scheme and at no point whatsoever considered that this could possibly be an issue whatsoever. [[User:Circeus|Circeus]] ([[User talk:Circeus|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 01:13, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
::::They are. Seriously, I claim. See my note on the Panama Canal, below. -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 23:04, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
:As I understand, {{BS-q|WASSER}} and {{BS-q|uexSTR}} are '''not''' (or should not be) used to represent the same. The wavy icons of the {{BS-q|WASSER}} family stand for “natural” non-navigable streams (or any body of water in most railway diagrams), while the {{BS-q|uexSTR}} family is the disused/planned form of {{BS-q|uSTR}}, which stands for '''navigable''' water: ''i.e.'', canals and river or sea routes and their facilities (including dregways, seamarks, ''etc.''). -- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] 01:31, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
:::Good description. Problem left is that the shades of blue are too close to call the difference (and associate to a correct legend), while being too apart so that they give a difference (noticable to the eye). IOW: we cannot use them significantly in the same diagram. See also my conclusion below. -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 12:18, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
::Arguably uex icons CAN represent "nonnavigable water" but ''only'' because there is navigable or formerly navigable water involved in the diagram. [[User:Circeus|Circeus]] ([[User talk:Circeus|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 02:35, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
::The colors for "non navigable" and "planned" waterways are too close to be used as two legend meanings. For the moment I forget about a difference between "planned navigable" and "planned nonnavigable" waterway ;-). -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 16:35, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
:::What are you going about with "planned waterways"? Those are represented by L-/LUECKE icons! [[User:Circeus|Circeus]] ([[User talk:Circeus|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 18:15, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
::::Are they? Maybe in the canals projects, but in railways diagrams LUECKE usually indicates stretches and connections that are not detailed in “this” diagram (and may be so in others). Planned is "ex" in railways diagrams in most Wikipedias. -- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] 19:18, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
:::::That would still allow for "planned waterway" needed, so {{code|=uex}} prefix. -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 12:18, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
:::::It is not a theoretical question. It all came together when I described the plumbing of the Panama Canal by BSicon [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Panama_Canal_map]. navigable/nonnavigable, actual/planned. I decided to use green {{bsq|ugSTR}} for the "planned" part. warning/friendly advise: I prefer the current solution. -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 22:52, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
::::::Are you aware that ug- icons (as far as I understand the Canal project's guidelines) mean not only nonnavigable but unwatered/destroyed sections of a canal? Ultimately, this sort of pointless argumentations can be dealt with easily using the same trick [[en:Template:Grange_railway_line,_Adelaide_RDT|as used here]] if you REALLY thing the stuff is genuinely confusing. [[User:Circeus|Circeus]] ([[User talk:Circeus|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 15:29, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
:::::::I like the linked trick (add individual legend to the map), which allows for individual color usage. I do not like C. first saying "When they start being ''actually used'' in conflicting way", and then when I do provide an existing conflicting usage, changing to "this sort of pointless argumentations". Next argument being ''problem does not exist because planned waterways do not exist''? -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 12:18, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

{{od}}I ''conclude'', that there is no suitable parallel (that can be made) in the scheming & naming between tracks and waterways. Both color and prefix/suffix standards can differ. I'll have to go with that. -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 12:18, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
:Despite the comment: {{BS-q|WASSER}} and {{BS-q|uexSTR}} are '''not''' (or should not be) used to represent the same, they clearly are. I dislike the Wasser set, because they make the maps look so amateurish, but on maps like [[en:Template:Neath and Tennant Canal map]], someone has changed most of the original uexSTR icons to xWasser icons, but not all, because there are several where an equivalent xWasser icon does not exist. In my opinion, it makes the map look really messy. [[User:Bob1960evens|Bob1960evens]] ([[User talk:Bob1960evens|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 22:42, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
::Not really wanting to throw gasoline onto the fire, but what does {{bsq|WASSER}} signify differently from {{bsq|xWASSER}}?<br>P.S. [[en:Template:Neath and Tennant Canal map]] {{Fixed}}. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 00:46, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
::: IMHO {{bsq|WASSER}} should only be used for natural watercourses, {{bsq|uexSTR}} only for unnavigable artificial waterways. This raises the question what {{bsq|xWASSER}} stands for ...
::: And yes, some WASSER icons are very poorly drawn, maybe I'll redraw some of them. [[User:Axpde|<span stle="color:#0000ff;">'''a'''<small>&times;</small>'''p'''<small><sub>de</sub></small></span>]][[User Talk:Axpde|<span stle="color:#ff0000;"><small><sup>Hello!</sup></small></span>]] 08:56, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
:::: [[:Category:Icons for railway descriptions/water|WASSER set]] redrawn and expanded; {{bsq|xWASSER}} ''et. al.'' [[ Commons:Deletion requests/File:BSicon xWASSER.svg|nominated for deletion]]. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 21:20, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

== Proceedings ==

I created [[:Category:Icons for railway descriptions/obsolete colors]] for those sets and individual icons whose usage has '''already''' been replaced by other sets/icons. At some later point they should be nominated for deletion ''en masse''. [[User:YLSS|YLSS]] ([[User talk:YLSS|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 12:59, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

:I don’t agree with that '''exact''' procedure (although I agree with the general idea): I think it is better to alter the RGB in the affected files and recategorize them if necessary, and then rename them (which is trivial for unused files). That would leave out needing to be deleted only actual duplicates.
:An example: {{BS-q|HBHF jaune}} can be slightly recolored to <span style="background:#FFEB81;">RGB:FFEB81</span> and renamed {{BS-q|exBHFq_yellow}}, adding to the [[:Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set yellow/stations and stops|yellow set]] an icon it currently lacks; on the other hand, things like {{BS-q|STR A9A9AA}} can be safely deleted (after usage replacement) as its equivalent {{BS-q|STR grey}} already existed. (This goes for almost all of the icons in/under [[:Category:Icons for railway descriptions/obsolete colors|obsolete colors]], except for the weird [[:Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set yellow/add red‎|yellow / add red‎]] set, which is useless.)
:But there’s the need to discuss (or at least document) several special cases. F.i., while Berlin’s U5 and the other [[#Browns]] were agreed to be merged and while {{BS-q|uBHF BlnU5}} and {{BS-q|uKBHFe BlnU5}} do have preexisting equivalents in the [[:Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set brown|brown set]], there is the question wheather the special Berlin names should be kept as [[#Redirects|redirects]] (ditto for Moscow, Kuala Lumpur, and Tokyo). That is a matter that should be addressed, and no Berlin or other such icons should be deleted untill we reach agreement.
:-- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] 16:03, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
::I do follow the procedure you describe - cf. [[:Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set grey]], - although somewhat retroactively (now that I've got myself filemover rights). On redirects from Tokyo etc. names - I must've misunderstood your proposals earlier. OK, nothing will be deleted. [[User:YLSS|YLSS]] ([[User talk:YLSS|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 16:37, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

== Some colour names ==

[[File:Moscow metro lines colors.png|thumb|300px|Moscow metro legend]]
It seems that a new map that is planned to show up in Moscow Metro (but only planned as yet) will have all lines labelled with colour words in both Russian and English, to help visually impaired. (See [http://www.artlebedev.ru/everything/metro/map2/].) So we'll officially have red, green, blue, light blue, (brown), orange, purple, yellow, grey, lime, teal and blue grey lines. What a crazy random happenstance, as one en.wp user used to call himself. [[User:YLSS|YLSS]] ([[User talk:YLSS|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 20:29, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
* There were about the same colors on the diagrams of the Moscow metro twenty and thirty years ago. There are difference only in nuances. Lines are very often called by their colors, not their names.  What is a crazy random happenstance?--[[User:Туча|Туча]] ([[User talk:Туча|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 05:15, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
**He means that it's an incredible coincidence. i.e. that this ''official'' renaming be now discussed/mentioned right as we are discussing issues of naming colors of the Moscow metro. [[User:Circeus|Circeus]] ([[User talk:Circeus|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 05:37, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
* But their orange is something between orange and saffron here. --[[User:Туча|Туча]] ([[User talk:Туча|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 09:20, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
**Let's wait until any of this goes official before making any decisions. [[User:YLSS|YLSS]] ([[User talk:YLSS|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 09:59, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

<br clear="all" />

== "set blue" and "set green" ==

'' Moved to [[Talk:BSicon/Categorization]].''

== Minimal sets ==

[[#Golden|Set golden]] was so small it was useless, so I added a few icons to make it minimally functional:
{| class=wikitable
|- 
|[[File:BSicon BHF golden.svg|80px]]
|[[File:BSicon KBHFa golden.svg|80px]]
|[[File:BSicon KBHFe golden.svg|80px]]
|[[File:BSicon INT golden.svg|80px]]
|[[File:BSicon STRq golden.svg|80px]]
|- 
! BHF !! KBHFa !! KBHFe !! INT !! STRq
|}
With these icons, diagrams like [[:pt:Predefinição:Metro de Lisboa/Linha Verde|this]] can be easily built, mixing and overlaying with other such sets of different colors and with regular icons. -- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] 12:37, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
:Layer 1: BHF, KBHFa, KBHFe (+ INT if is used customarily) - minimal
:Layer 2: exBHF, exKBHFa, exKBHFe, KBHFxa, KBHFxe - to implement planned continuations etc. (plus an additional colour, actually)
:Layer 3: STR, STRq, STRlf, STRrf, STRlg, STRrg (x2 for ex) - to implement any ABZs using overlaying
:I've made sure these 20 are present in saffron, purple, teal, fuchsia, brown, grey, violet, yellow, lime, azure, cyan, ochre, red & green. [[User:YLSS|YLSS]] ([[User talk:YLSS|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 13:16, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

== other color sets too thin ==

I was given the advice there exists other colors such as orange or saffron. Problem is these don't play well with the standard red, when it comes to overlays. Overlays are essential, since these other color sets are woefully incomplete.

But on an overlay, the color (such as saffron) does not completely cover up an underlying piece of standard track, for example. Why was these color tracks made thinner??

Example, 300% zoom from the [[en:Template:Mobile Grain]] page.

[[en:File:Colours BSIcon.png]]

As you can see, the red bleeds through (just below the blob of Davidson). [[User:CapnZapp|CapnZapp]] ([[User talk:CapnZapp|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 08:07, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
:Yes, this is a nasty problem, I encounter it 24/7 (at least in 125%-zoomed Chrome), even in such trivial cases as when {{bsq|hABZgl+l}} is overlayed with {{bsq|ABZgl+xl}} and the vertical line thickens noticeably. This isn't an issue with the coding of {{bsq|STR saffron}} or others, just a browser-end problem. I can only suggest using e.g. {{bsq|CONTf saffron}} for the background layer, or if needed you can upload {{bsq|KSTRe saffron}}, which should look like this: {{bso|MASKe|STR saffron}} (track ending at the center of the icon). It is indeed fortunate that the colour is not messed up as well; when overlaying {{bso|MWSTR|STR2|txt=1}}, the red track show up through the yellow middle at the top; and unlike in your case, this doesn't go away if I reset zooming to 100%. [[User:YLSS|YLSS]] ([[User talk:YLSS|<span class="signature-talk">talk</span>]]) 09:44, 6 November 2013 (UTC)


== Forgotten old set ==

At [[:Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set 2CA05A]] there were 15 icons not yet fully recategorized. {{done|All done}} now. -- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] 10:52, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
:I did not forget about it! I removed half of items from it a couple of days ago while renaming them, and was planning on recategorising the rest — indeed, you stole from me the pleasure of getting rid of it!! Still, thanks ;) [[User:YLSS|YLSS]] ([[User talk:YLSS|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 13:44, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
:: Oh, sorry about that! Indeed after I did it I thought that this might be the case, but sadly there's no simple way of checking the history of all affluent pages of a given page. Anyway, the merit is yours, of course! -- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] 14:04, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

== Set "o": new light green from w:de ==

:''previously discussed at [[Talk:BSicon/Colors#Set_"o"]]''

Template [[:de:Vorlage:BSo-sol-header|BSo-sol-header]] existed since december 2010 (used in a few infoboxes, none with a route diagram) but on january 2014 (long after the “other colors” of BSicons were fully discussed and standartized) user {{user|MBxd1}} decided to [https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vorlage%3ABSo-sol-header&diff=126363987&oldid=89591507 change] its color from {{colorbox|#006E34}} to {{colorbox|#61A375}} and to create a new [[:Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set o|set o]] to categorize the newly created light green icons in use in [[:de:Oberleitungsbus Wuhlehirsk]].

In view of the (both actual and percieved) role w:de has had in the BSicon project, input is necessary to deal with this situation. I started a discussion at [[de:Diskussion:Oberleitungsbus Wuhlehirsk#Farben]], but what concerns Commons should be discussed here.

-- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] 11:56, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

:Shouldn't these new icons be in [[:Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set 61A375]]? [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 17:33, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
::IMHO, they shouldn't be anywhere... You were too condescending, Tuválkin... [[User:YLSS|YLSS]] ([[User talk:YLSS|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 19:50, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
:::The color of template [[:de:Vorlage:BSo-sol-header|BSo-sol-header]] was initially not related to colors of railway icons. It was adapted to the color of trolleybus lines in maps. As this is a local template, the change of color cannot be discussed here. It was caused by an adaption to the mainly used color in maps.
:::The railway icons are not the preferred option for trolleybus lines, but they are used in some cases. [[:de:Oberleitungsbus Wuhlehirsk]] was one of them, according to practice in German Wikipedia with the blue icons of tramway lines. When this article needed an update in January 2014 (when a new map made the table nearly redundant), I decided to keep it, but to adapt to the color of trolleybus lines in maps. The color of the template was then adapted to that of the icons. A change to other green icons would have been possible, but they were either already used for completely different purposes or too bright. Of course this can be changed again - also for the maps. 
:::Unfortunately there is no real discussion on [[de:Diskussion:Oberleitungsbus Wuhlehirsk#Farben]], but only a table with icons. This does not help anything. --[[User:MBxd1|MBxd1]] ([[User talk:MBxd1|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 20:13, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
::::How about changing the icons to [[:Category:BSicon/railway/set g|set g]]? It is already quite extensive. As far as I know, these icons are not used at de.wp at all, but only in en.wp for former (unwatered) canals – so it would be completely OK to re-use them for this purpose. (The colour sets do not need to be assigned strictly to a single purpose: even the "u" set is used both for U-Bahn lines and for canals!) [[User:YLSS|YLSS]] ([[User talk:YLSS|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 20:33, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
:::::Set g is too bright, it is not well visible in maps. I would prefer [[:Category:BSicon/railway/set f|set f]], but it is already used for cycling routes in de.wp. --[[User:MBxd1|MBxd1]] ([[User talk:MBxd1|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 21:04, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

== Dark brown ==

I was working on [[en:User:Useddenim/Rapid Rail network|a diagram]] and realized that we don't have a dark brown set. So, I would suggest [[:Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set chocolate]] with a colour of {{colorbox|#4c3300|<font color{{=}}white>'''4c3300'''</font>}} (which—if my math is correct—is 30% red 20% green). [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 21:33, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
:If you really need a dark brown colour, you may want to [[Talk:BSicon/Colors/Archive 1#Browns|resurrect set 71592E]] and darken it a bit...
:But possibly ''maroon'' would be a better idea. Do I understand right that it was you who chose {{color|white|bg=#881210|#881210}} for {{t|KLRT color|parm=&#124;4|lang=en}}? If that wasn't a random thought, I suggest that you proceed with it, or with {{color|white|bg=#800000|#800000}}. [[w:Maroon|Maroon]] is a substantially different hue from both {{color|white|bg=#{{bsc|brown}}|brown}} and {{color|white|bg=#{{bsc|bahn}}|bahn}}, and I once wanted to introduce it myself (although now I can't recall what for...). [[User:YLSS|YLSS]] ([[User talk:YLSS|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 15:25, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
::{{ping|Useddenim}}: please check the ex-values, they seem to be too bright... Cf. violet → ex_violet. [[User:YLSS|YLSS]] ([[User talk:YLSS|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 19:51, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
:::{{ping|YLSS}}: That's what the color picker tool came up with using 50% opacity over #f9f9f9 background. No icons have been uploaded yet, so the values can be changed. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 19:56, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
::::Well, it should be 60%, [[#Deriving the ex-shade given an RGB|remember]]?.. Using a calculator, I get {{colorbox|#928364|928364}} & {{colorbox|#B16464|B16464}}. [[User:YLSS|YLSS]] ([[User talk:YLSS|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 20:10, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
== Pink ==

I'm looking to create a pink set as the ruby and fuchsia sets don't quite match what I want.

I got {{colorbox|#E87EA6|E87EA6}} and {{colorbox|#EFAFC7|EFAFC7}} for the ex variant using the above method. Just wanted to get Some feedback/comments/concerns before proceeding. [[User:Lost on belmont|Lost on <span style="background-color: #75A3FF; color: white"><strong>&nbsp;Belmont<sup>&nbsp;3200N</sup><sub style="margin-left:-3.2em">1000W</sub></strong>&nbsp;</span>]] ([[User_talk:Lost on belmont|talk]]) 17:18, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
:Yes, I also think that we need something lighter than fuchsia. (Tuválkin, sorry, your redirects will have to go!) But probably it would be better to choose some other shade, further away from magenta, and possibly a bit darker (to enhance contrast with ex). Something towards [[:en:Brink pink]] {{colorbox|#FB607F|FB607F}}. How about  {{colorbox|#F0668D|F0668D}}, ex = {{colorbox|#F4A1B8|F4A1B8}}? [[User:YLSS|YLSS]] ([[User talk:YLSS|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 19:06, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
::I'll admit, I stole E87EA6, straight from the Chicago Transit Authority's Pink Line webpage, but I think {{colorbox|#F0668D|F0668D}} and {{colorbox|#F4A1B8|F4A1B8}} will work fine. I'll get started. [[User:Lost on belmont|Lost on <span style="background-color: #75A3FF; color: white"><strong>&nbsp;Belmont<sup>&nbsp;3200N</sup><sub style="margin-left:-3.2em">1000W</sub></strong>&nbsp;</span>]] ([[User_talk:Lost on belmont|talk]]) 19:25, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
::: For the record, here’s some numbers: The same assessment we did 2 yrs ago for the big color clean-up: Vectorial RGB distance to nearest neighbour in the w:en color list and in our own palette; correlates to how different (or not) it is from all other colors:
{| class=wikitable style="float:right;"
! color !! RGB dist. !! to… (in w:en) !! RGB dist. !! to… (among BSicons) !! Remarks 
|-
|style="background-color:#E87EA6;" | <tt>E87EA6</tt>
| 18.708% ||style="background-color:#DE6FA1;" | Thulian pink 
| 28,302% ||style="background-color:#DE64A1;" | BSicon ex-ruby 
| CTA pink
|-
|style="background-color:#EFAFC7;" | <tt>EFAFC7</tt> 
| 16,310% ||style="background-color:#FBAED2;" | Lavender pink 
| 50,468% ||style="background-color:#C0C0C0;" | BSicon ex-grey 
| ex-CTA pink
|-
|style="background-color:#FB607F;" | <tt>FB607F</tt> 
| 00,000% ||style="background-color:#FB607F;" | Brink pink 
| 20,833% ||style="background-color:#F37176;" | BSicon ex-red 
| YLSS’ suggestion #1
|-
|style="background-color:#F0668D;" | <tt>F0668D</tt> 
| 18,788% ||style="background-color:#FB607F;" | Brink pink 
| 25,671% ||style="background-color:#F37176;" | BSicon ex-red 
| YLSS’ suggestion #2
|-
|style="background-color:#F4A1B8;" | <tt>F4A1B8</tt> 
| 06,557% ||style="background-color:#F19CBB;" | Amaranth pink 
| 57,801% ||style="background-color:#D173B8;" | BSicon ex-fuchsia 
| ex-YLSS’ suggestion #2
|}{{clear}}
::: Looks like all proposals are significatively different from anything we have, especially the "ex" versions. -- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] 00:00, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

: I think adding pink is a good idea. No problem with the redirects I made a while ago for {{tl|TramColors}} from "pink" (unexistent, then) to "ex ruby":
:* {{BS-q|STRq_pink}}
:* {{BS-q|INTq_pink}}
:* {{BS-q|eINTq_pink}}
: The new shade looks better and will fit seamless in [[:Category:Black_and_pink_trams]] and other such pages. -- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] 23:01, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
:: Oops, I had forgot about {{BS-q|vSTR_pink}} and the unused {{BS-q|INT_pink}}. See also [[:Category:Icons for railway descriptions/redirect/aliased colours]], now only harbouring “silver”, as pink attained realhood. -- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] 01:12, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
What can I say guys... Congrats to ourselves! I think that was the swiftest inception of a set: 8 hours after the first thoughts were posted, we have a [[:Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set pink|fully functional set]], uploaded by three users! [[User:YLSS|YLSS]] ([[User talk:YLSS|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 01:24, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
== New colour? (#0000ff) ==

There seem to be a number of Chinese metro lines (e.g. [[:w:Line 9, Tianjin Metro|Tianjin Metro line 9]] ([[:w:Template:Tianjin Metro/9|diagram]])) that use just flat RGB colours as their line colour. Since there isn't currently any bright blue ({{color|white|#0000ff|bg=#0000ff}}) could we add this as "ultramarine" (or similar)? <small>(Pinging [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]], [[User:Lost on Belmont|Lost on Belmont]], [[User:YLSS|YLSS]], [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]].)</small> [[w:en:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Jc86035|contributions]] • [[Special:ListFiles/Jc86035|uploads]]) 10:29, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

: I think not: 
:* {{colorbox|#0000FF|{{Color|#FFF|0000FF}}}} is one of those lazy colors people pick from a simple-minded palette and don’t even think about it. It’s sad that “post-geek” computing apparently means to dismiss things like knowledge of HTML (or even wiki code!) but these nasty remains ot times long by gone (256-color screens, anyone?) are still around.
:* This color shade {{colorbox|#0000FF}} is too “bright” (not pastel) to be adequate for a wikipedia page — I’m surprised this is in use in en:wp (where people are particularly fussy about this, and rightly so) and it wont probably last.
:* I don’t read the choice of {{colorbox|#0000FF|{{Color|#FFF|0000FF}}}} as content-bearing while their use of {{BS-q|BHF blue|alt=blue}} being a poor-man’s choice for lack of a more accurate shade of blue, but quite the opposite.
:* If a darker shade of blue is needed, {{BS-q|BHF denim|alt=denim}} and {{BS-q|uBHF|alt=u}} are good enough.
: -- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] [[Special:Contributions/Tuvalkin|✇]] 17:30, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
::I tend to agree with {{U|Tuvalkin}}, unless you can make a more compelling argument. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 22:58, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
::{{reply to|Tuvalkin|Useddenim}} Never mind. The actual line colour [[:File:天津地铁九号线车站导视图.png|seems to be]] closer to {{bsq|uBHF|alt=u}}. [[w:en:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Jc86035|contributions]] • [[Special:ListFiles/Jc86035|uploads]]) 08:13, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
== Set "o" ==

:''previously discussed at [[Category talk:BSicon/railway/other_colors#Set "o": new light green from w:de]]''

Has anyone ever endorsed a [[:Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set o|set o]] with color {{colorbox|#61A375|{{Color|#000|61A375}}}}? The color shade seems somewhere in between {{colorbox|#2CA05A|{{Color|#000|g}}}} and {{colorbox|#7EC49A|{{Color|#000|ex-g}}}}. &nbsp;&nbsp;<b>~</b>]&nbsp;[[User:Newfraferz87|<span style="color:#003399;">New</span>]]<i>[[Special:Contributions/Newfraferz87|<span style="color:#008000;">fiz</span>]]</i>&nbsp;[[User talk:Newfraferz87|<sup style="color:#CC6633;">Yo!</sup>]] 15:19, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
:Yes and no. {{U|Axpde}}, Guardian of the Purity of the [[:de:Bilderkatalog]] and Defender of the Faith of BSicons created the set, apparently for a single diagram but without any sort of consultation at Commons. The “o” seems to stand for ''Oberleitungsbus'' (en: trolleybus). [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 01:13, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
:: Quite some time ago I somewhere proposed to introduce those set-o-icons into the existing green icons. And {{U|Useddenim}}, master of sarcasm, it was neither my idea nor my work, which you could easily have noticed by checking [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Icons_for_railway_descriptions/set_o&action=history the cats history]! The "set o" was created by {{U|MBxd1}} so blame him! [[User:Axpde|<span stle="color:#0000ff;">'''a'''<small>&times;</small>'''p'''<small><sub>de</sub></small></span>]][[User Talk:Axpde|<span stle="color:#ff0000;"><small><sup>Hello!</sup></small></span>]] 09:49, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
:::I explained the use of the o symbols already on [[Category talk:BSicon/railway/other_colors#Set "o": new light green from w:de]]. The other dark green colors are already used for other purposes. The main use of the color is for trolleybus maps (currently #61A375 and #A8D4AF for abandoned items), I transferred this to the only diagram created by me. There are some more diagrams, which use currently the blue color and could be changed to green. [[User:MBxd1|MBxd1]] ([[User talk:MBxd1|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 13:28, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
::::Now that {{U|Axpde}} and I have bestowed honorifics on each other, I admit that I only checked the icons’ creator, and not the [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Icons_for_railway_descriptions/set_o&action=history category history]. Personally, I do not think it is necessary to differentiate between trolleybuses and other surface transit routes, especially with a colour that is similar to [[:Category:BSicon/railway/set f|set f]] (footpaths) and [[:Category:BSicon/railway/set g|set g]] (unwatered canals)—even after re-reading [[Category talk:BSicon/railway/other_colors#Set "o": new light green from w:de]]. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 17:38, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
:::::Agree with Useddenim above. With the limited number of icons available and the relatively low importance of the route diagrams in which these icons are used (along with the fact that they are not used together with any other colored icons), it is not appropriate for this set to have such a prominent name/prefix, for such a naming scheme will tempt new icon creators to create more badly-named color prefixes. I would suggest either to rename the set to "set #61A375" (or some shade of green), or merge it into set g altogether. &nbsp;&nbsp;<b>~</b>]&nbsp;[[User:Newfraferz87|<span style="color:#003399;">New</span>]]<i>[[Special:Contributions/Newfraferz87|<span style="color:#008000;">fiz</span>]]</i>&nbsp;[[User talk:Newfraferz87|<sup style="color:#CC6633;">Yo!</sup>]] 12:24, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
::::::There are so many other colors, which are used for some subways, that I would consider a special color for trolleybuses much more important. It cannot be merged to another color, because they are less suitable for maps (which is the main purpose of this color).
::::::Is this an issue of the name only? Is the name needed for another color? The trolleybus green was never intended to be one of the "standard colors", but I would prefer to avoid a name according to the color numbers, because this might change. [[User:MBxd1|MBxd1]] ([[User talk:MBxd1|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 18:27, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
:::::::<sigh>. We went through this before, when de:WP insisted that the Berlin U-bahn ''absolutely'' had to have its own colours, but somehow in the end were able to survive with the harmonized set… [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 04:55, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
::::::::This is not correct. de does not use special colors for the U-Bahn of Berlin. The blue symbols were standard for all subways already, when the symbols were used locally on de and nowhere else. [[User:MBxd1|MBxd1]] ([[User talk:MBxd1|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 18:33, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::''Au contraire, mon ami.'' For starters, read the [[#Berlin]] section above.<br/>We don’t need yet another green; and where were you when we were discussing colors, for months? [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 03:35, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::The discussion about Berlin U-Bahn colors was never related in any way to German Wikipedia. de never intended to use special colors for single subway routes. [[User:MBxd1|MBxd1]] ([[User talk:MBxd1|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 19:43, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::::Fine. Then remove '''set o''' from Commons to de, and that will be the end of it. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 04:38, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::::You are writing {{color|w|bg=black|''' <small>redacted</small> '''}}, and I should follow your {{color|w|bg=black|''' <small>redacted</small> '''}} advices? No. You never explained, why you want to remove the o symbols, you only wrote {{color|w|bg=black|''' <small>redacted</small> '''}} about the Berlin subway. No actions necessary. [[User:MBxd1|MBxd1]] ([[User talk:MBxd1|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 09:34, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
{{od|::::::::::::}}
Before this degenerates into a personal one-on-one argument, shall we take a step back, and ask other project members about their views and suggestions on this issue? &nbsp;&nbsp;<b>~</b>]&nbsp;[[User:Newfraferz87|<span style="color:#003399;">New</span>]]<i>[[Special:Contributions/Newfraferz87|<span style="color:#008000;">fiz</span>]]</i>&nbsp;[[User talk:Newfraferz87|<sup style="color:#CC6633;">Yo!</sup>]] 15:25, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
:There is ''one'' page that uses these icons, and the colour is too similar to that of other sets'. The article on the German Wikipedia should probably use the {{bsq|uBHF|alt=u}} set. [[w:en:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Jc86035|contributions]] • [[Special:ListFiles/Jc86035|uploads]]) 11:24, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
::The set u is not suitable for trolleybuses. Why do we keep a lot of colors for subways, but this one necessary color should be deleted? [[User:MBxd1|MBxd1]] ([[User talk:MBxd1|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 19:32, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
:::'''''Why''''' is set u not suitable for trolleybuses? en:WP uses both regular and [[:Category:BSicon/railway/set u|set u]] icons for bus routes, and set u for Bus Rapid Transit without any problem.<br/>I ''was'' going to give {{U|MBxd1}} the benefit of the doubt regarding his understanding of English, but he apparently is fluent enough to be insulting.<br/>Regardless, the facts are:
:::#There had been '''ten''' different shades of green. (See [[Talk:BSicon/Colors/Archive_1#Determining generic name from RGB]] above.)
:::#By consensus, that was reduced to five. ([[:Category:BSicon/railway/set f|f]], [[:Category:BSicon/railway/set g|g]], [[:Category:BSicon/railway/set jade|jade]], [[:Category:BSicon/railway/set green|green]] and [[:Category:BSicon/railway/set lime|lime]].)
:::#In April 2013 {{U|Axpde}} questioned, “Do we really need four different shades of green?” (implying that three may even be enough).
:::#When [[:Category:Icons_for_railway_descriptions/set_o|set o]] was created in January 2014, {{U|MBxd1}} ''did not'' (deliberately or otherwise) add it to the colour table at [[:Category:BSicon/railway/other colors]].
:::#In June–August 2014, at both [[Category talk:BSicon/railway/other_colors#Set "o": new light green from w:de]] and [[de:Diskussion:Oberleitungsbus Wuhlehirsk#Farben]], {{U|MBxd1}} claimed that existing colours were unsuitable. (See [[:en:WP:IDL]] for a discussion of what constitutes a ''rational'' argument.)
:::So, even though MBxd1 may think that he is right and the rest of Wikipedia is wrong, I reiterate that another shade of green is not needed—'''set g''' is close enough: {{bso|oSTR|gSTRq}}—and if MBxd1 continues to insist that he ''must'' use that exact shade, then those icons should be removed from Commons and transferred to de:WP, where they would be available to the ''one'' diagram that uses them. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 21:49, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
::::The u symbols are for subways and trams. Trolleybuses are no rail transport, therefore they cannot use the same colorss (de does not use icons for bus transport). This corresponds with the use in maps, in which the different types of transport should be discriminable (again: only red, blue and green, other colors are not needed). Currently there is only one diagram, which uses the icons; but there are many more, which could use them. I didn't push that, because the icons are not complete (and that is also the reason, why I didn't add them to the table). The existing green colors are less visible in maps; although the icon color (which was chosen, because it is a directly accessible color in Corel Draw) was initially intended for existing infrastructure, I would now prefer to redefine it for former infrastructure and chose an even darker color for present infrastructure - a darker green than all other icons. This is the difference to nearly all of the colors, the trolleybus color should also be well visible on maps. [[User:MBxd1|MBxd1]] ([[User talk:MBxd1|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 20:24, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
:::::Icons are for whatever use that applied to. Insisting that "u symbols are [only] for subways and trams": well, that ship sailed long ago. (Certainly the [[:Category:Icons for canal descriptions|Canals]] people would think otherwise.) You claim to need "only red, blue and green," but then you argue that you ''really'' need [[:Category:BSicon/railway/set f|green]], [[:Category:BSicon/railway/set g|green]], [[:Category:BSicon/railway/set green|green]] and [[:Category:Icons_for_railway_descriptions/set_o|green]]! As for choosing a colour because "it is directly accessible in Corel Draw", you should be using a text editor rather than a graphics program for BSicons. And when you mention "infrastructure", are you referring to [[:Category:BSicon/formations|formations]]? I would '''strongly'' caution you to discus that fully and wait for consensus before making any changes there. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 00:18, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
::::::As far as I know, Corel Draw cannot even be used for creating BSicons. It is used for maps, and the colors in maps and icons should be the same. All the subway colors are not necessary. And "infrastructure" is simply the traffic infrastructure, for which the icons are used. [[User:MBxd1|MBxd1]] ([[User talk:MBxd1|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 20:29, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

* My opinion hasn’t change after [[Category talk:BSicon/railway/other_colors#Set "o": new light green from w:de|my first assessment]], but one advantage of having a standardized system for other colors is that it allows new colors to be added in a simple way (like was done with pink, for instance, which was added later). The fact that this particular color shade is too close to others that already exist doesn’t affect the fact that it is easy to add. I can only add two comments:
:* This set is identified with prefix "o" instead of suffix "_neu-grün" (or some such). Will this conflict with existing use of the "o" prefix that means "over/''ober''"?
:* Once again we witness how the exceptional status given to German language in all things BS (which is rooted in their history) is not matched by an equally gentleman-like collaborative stance by typical BS-icon users of wp:de: Never was the matter previously discussed before the sudden upload of these set-o icons (and BSicon discussions are anything but secretive), and in following discussion, till now, never it was suggested that the new color could be used instead to adapt an existing set — we could discuss, after all, how {{colorbox|#006E34}} and {{colorbox|#61A375}} are perhaps better suited for BS use than, say, {{colorbox|#008000}} and {{colorbox|#64B164}}, or {{colorbox|#2CA05A}} and {{colorbox|#7EC49A}}. No, BS-icon users of wp:de keep contact to a minimum and would even keep their icons locally if they were allowed to. Very sad.
: -- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] [[Special:Contributions/Tuvalkin|✇]] 21:27, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

* This o set is entirely superfluous. As noted above, f and g sets already exist and can be used for trolleybuses. Why are we even debating the existence of a set to support only one map? Delete the set and replace usage with a similar color set. [[User:Lost on Belmont|Lost on <span style="background-color: #75A3FF; color: white; padding: 2px;"><strong>&nbsp;Belmont<sup>&nbsp;3200N</sup><sub style="margin-left:-3.2em">1000W</sub></strong>&nbsp;</span>]] ([[User_talk:Lost on belmont|talk]]) 22:21, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

{{Reply to|Lost on Belmont|Tuvalkin|Axpde|Useddenim|Newfraferz87}} Obvious consensus is for deletion of set "o" (5–1); should we do something about it or leave the discussion hanging? [[w:en:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Jc86035|contributions]] • [[Special:ListFiles/Jc86035|uploads]]) 09:36, 12 March 2016 (UTC) <small>Pinging [[User:MBxd1|MBxd1]] since {{tlx|Reply to}} only supports max. 5 usernames. [[w:en:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Jc86035|contributions]] • [[Special:ListFiles/Jc86035|uploads]]) 09:38, 12 March 2016 (UTC)</small>
:{{Reply to|Jc86035}} Since {{U|MBxd1}} can't seem to come up with a stronger argument than [[:en:WP:ITSUSEFUL]], it's probably time to move this to a formal deletion nomination. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 14:11, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
::{{Reply to|Useddenim}} [[Commons:Deletion requests/BSicons set o|Nominated]] for deletion. <small>Pinging [[User:Lost on Belmont|Lost on Belmont]], [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]], [[User:Axpde|Axpde]] and [[User:Newfraferz87|Newfraferz87]].</small> [[w:en:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Jc86035|contributions]] • [[Special:ListFiles/Jc86035|uploads]]) 12:08, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
== Set acc? ==

{{ping|Useddenim|Tuvalkin}} It might be useful to have a legende-only set for accessible interchange stations without roundels, like {{bsq|lINT-L}} for matching with {{bsq|INTACC-M}}. Thoughts? [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) <small><span style="display:inline-block;margin-bottom:-0.3em;vertical-align:-0.4em;line-height:1.2em;font-size:80%;text-align:left">Use &#123;&#123;[[Template:Reply to|re]]&#124;Jc86035&#125;&#125;<br />to reply to me</span></small> 07:46, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
:{{ping|Jc86035}} I’m not sure what you’re proposing. A new category? Go ahead an create it. Interchange icons with a {{color|#034ea2|'''#034ea2'''}} border instead of black? Not a good idea. Something else? Explain in more detail. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 12:49, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
::{{re|Useddenim}} Station icons coloured {{color|#034ea2|'''#034ea2'''}}; i.e. {{bsq|lACC-R}} etc. without the accessibility sign. [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) <small><span style="display:inline-block;margin-bottom:-0.3em;vertical-align:-0.4em;line-height:1.2em;font-size:80%;text-align:left">Use &#123;&#123;[[Template:Reply to|re]]&#124;Jc86035&#125;&#125;<br />to reply to me</span></small> 14:34, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

* I’m going to say I disagree, and I’m going to say why, and I’m beating myself for having been postponing bringing up this matter for so long, as it has been bugging me for years. So, we’ve had color troubles with these accessibility icons on stations and halts why? Because the sign is shown as white on a blue roundel. That clashes with the way we use colors for regular stations and halts, a roundel the same color as the line, also for disused ones, and also for interchange stations and halts, a white roundel with a thick black border. Now, why is it blue, and why does it have to be blue?
: Answers: '''Why is it blue?''' It is blue because the 1st time such an icon was created the dinossaurs still roamed the Earth and BSicon creators would cobble any available SVG with {{BS-q|STR}} and say go (we did have really clunky, horrible designs back then). '''And why does it have to be blue?''' Simply, it doesn’t. The [[:Category:Symbols of wheelchairs|well known wheelchair icon]] has not, and needs not, any specific color. It can be of any color, and it sure can be the color of any BSicon lines we’re using. (Something white on a blue square or ractangle is a international traffic sign for information, while something white on a blue disc is for prohibition, but we need not, and probably should not, be follwoing road traffic regulations.)
: Proposal: I suggest we quietly and '''simply change the color''' of the roundel from that blue to whichever line color each icon uses for HST and BHF, and change it to black for INT stations.
: -- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] [[Special:Contributions/Tuvalkin|✇]] 15:59, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

:* {{re|Tuvalkin}} I don't mind if we do that. Would icons like {{bsq|ACC yellow}} and {{bsq|extACC3+1 lime}} (basically anything closer to white than dark grey) have a black wheelchair for contrast? [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) <small><span style="display:inline-block;margin-bottom:-0.3em;vertical-align:-0.4em;line-height:1.2em;font-size:80%;text-align:left">Use &#123;&#123;[[Template:Reply to|re]]&#124;Jc86035&#125;&#125;<br />to reply to me</span></small> 16:24, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
::* I also think so, yes. The whellchair sign is small, not like the central disc of DST, which is always white. -- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] [[Special:Contributions/Tuvalkin|✇]] 23:38, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

:* {{ping|Tuvalkin}} You mean like {{bsq|BHFA}}? While we're making changes, the symbol should be mirrored to match the standard version. BTW, the reason for a #034ea2 background is, IIRC, that is the [[:en:Federal Standard 595|Federal Standard color]] for information signs.<br/>{{ping|Jc86035}} Totally unnecessary. And of course black where needed for contrast. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 16:31, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
::* Ah, yes, {{BS-q|BHFA}}: I knew there was one, but couldn’t find it. I’m glad we three agree. Lets see if there’s anyone against, and which are the reasons. -- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] [[Special:Contributions/Tuvalkin|✇]] 23:38, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

{{ping|Sameboat|Lost on Belmont|Axpde|Newfraferz87}} Any thoughts on this? (Assuming the station's shade of red won't be slightly different like in {{bsn|BHFA}}.) [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) <small><span style="display:inline-block;margin-bottom:-0.3em;vertical-align:-0.4em;line-height:1.2em;font-size:80%;text-align:left">Use &#123;&#123;[[Template:Reply to|re]]&#124;Jc86035&#125;&#125;<br />to reply to me</span></small> 15:02, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
:Getting to this a bit late. I have to disagree with the above because the blue background isn't arbitrary. The blue for ACC icons was selected to match the [[en:International Symbol of Access|International Symbol of Access]]. The wheelchair symbol on a blue background is significant for this respect. [[User:Lost on Belmont|Lost on <span style="background-color: #75A3FF; color: white; padding: 2px;"><strong>&nbsp;Belmont<sup>&nbsp;3200N</sup><sub style="margin-left:-3.2em">1000W</sub></strong>&nbsp;</span>]] ([[User_talk:Lost on belmont|talk]]) 02:37, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
:{{color|#034ea2|'''Keep blue'''}}, as per {{U|Lost on Belmont}}. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 10:16, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
:{{color|#034ea2|'''Keep blue'''}}, per {{u|Lost on Belmont}}; in addition, the blue background is occasionally useful for understanding which parts of a station are accessible. The proposed legende stations could just have an extra {{bsn|l}} prefix (i.e. {{bsn|llACC-R}}). [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) <small><span style="display:inline-block;margin-bottom:-0.3em;vertical-align:-0.4em;line-height:1.2em;font-size:80%;text-align:left">Use &#123;&#123;[[Template:Reply to|re]]&#124;Jc86035&#125;&#125;<br />to reply to me</span></small> 10:59, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
== Olive green colour ==

{{ping|Tuvalkin|Useddenim|Maxinvestigator|Lost on Belmont}} I've noticed from the upload logs that we don't seem to have a colour which matches the shade of Paris Métro line 3, {{color|bg=#837902|white|#837902}}. Currently set f ({{color|bg=#008000|white|#008000}}) is used for that line on ruwiki (and could probably be used for line 12 ({{color|bg=#007852|white|#007852}}) instead). Is it worthwhile to create another icon set for it? [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) <small><span style="display:inline-block;margin-bottom:-0.3em;vertical-align:-0.4em;line-height:1.2em;font-size:80%;text-align:left">Use &#123;&#123;[[Template:Reply to|re]]&#124;Jc86035&#125;&#125;<br />to reply to me</span></small> 08:17, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
: If [[:Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set_golden|set golden]] ({{color|bg=#D7C447|#FFF|#D7C447}}) is not good enough (nor any of the [[:Category:Icons for railway descriptions/other colors|others]]), then lets go a head a create a new one — set olive could work as a name, too. -- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] [[Special:Contributions/Tuvalkin|✇]] 09:26, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
:: {{re|Tuvalkin}} Set golden is already used for line 9. [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) <small><span style="display:inline-block;margin-bottom:-0.3em;vertical-align:-0.4em;line-height:1.2em;font-size:80%;text-align:left">Use &#123;&#123;[[Template:Reply to|re]]&#124;Jc86035&#125;&#125;<br />to reply to me</span></small> 12:14, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
:: Should we use X11's {{color|bg=#808000|white|#808000}} or just the Métro line's colour? [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) <small><span style="display:inline-block;margin-bottom:-0.3em;vertical-align:-0.4em;line-height:1.2em;font-size:80%;text-align:left">Use &#123;&#123;[[Template:Reply to|re]]&#124;Jc86035&#125;&#125;<br />to reply to me</span></small> 12:24, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
:::'''!vote''' for {{color|bg=#808000|white|''' #808000 '''}}. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 19:10, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
::::{{re|Useddenim|Tuvalkin}} How are the ex colours calculated? [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) <small><span style="display:inline-block;margin-bottom:-0.3em;vertical-align:-0.4em;line-height:1.2em;font-size:80%;text-align:left">Use &#123;&#123;[[Template:Reply to|re]]&#124;Jc86035&#125;&#125;<br />to reply to me</span></small> 10:37, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::50% opacity of base. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 12:09, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::: Or is it 60%? See [[Talk:BSicon/Colors/Archive 2#Testing half opacity with colors]]. -- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] [[Special:Contributions/Tuvalkin|✇]] 12:20, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
::::::: {{re|Useddenim|Tuvalkin}} Using Firefox's colour picker (with 60% on a table background) yields {{color|bg=#B2AC64|2=#B2AC64}} for the Paris Métro colour and {{color|bg=#B0B063|2=#B0B063}} for the X11 colour. [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) <small><span style="display:inline-block;margin-bottom:-0.3em;vertical-align:-0.4em;line-height:1.2em;font-size:80%;text-align:left">Use &#123;&#123;[[Template:Reply to|re]]&#124;Jc86035&#125;&#125;<br />to reply to me</span></small> 12:26, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::::: I got something in the neighbourhood of {{color|bg=#c0c090|white|''' #c0c090 '''}} for {{color|bg=#808000|white|''' #808000 '''}}. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 12:37, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
::::::::: {{re|Useddenim}} The method I used matches ex-pink when tested with pink (aside from what's probably a rounding error). Not sure, though. [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) <small><span style="display:inline-block;margin-bottom:-0.3em;vertical-align:-0.4em;line-height:1.2em;font-size:80%;text-align:left">Use &#123;&#123;[[Template:Reply to|re]]&#124;Jc86035&#125;&#125;<br />to reply to me</span></small> 12:39, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
::::::::: <small>{{ping|Lost on Belmont}} in case you missed it [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) <small><span style="display:inline-block;margin-bottom:-0.3em;vertical-align:-0.4em;line-height:1.2em;font-size:80%;text-align:left">Use &#123;&#123;[[Template:Reply to|re]]&#124;Jc86035&#125;&#125;<br />to reply to me</span></small> 14:13, 28 March 2017 (UTC)</small>
:::I'm in favor of creating new colors as needed and as reasonable, so this seems fine with me. Personally, I prefer {{color|bg=#837902|white|#837902}}, but I don't have any particular objections to {{color|bg=#808000|white|''' #808000 '''}} either. [[User:Lost on Belmont|Lost on <span style="background-color: #75A3FF; color: white; padding: 2px;"><strong>&nbsp;Belmont<sup>&nbsp;3200N</sup><sub style="margin-left:-3.2em">1000W</sub></strong>&nbsp;</span>]] ([[User_talk:Lost on belmont|talk]]) 00:44, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

{{ping|Useddenim|Tuvalkin|Lost on Belmont}} I will be uploading a set olive of {{color|bg=#837902|white|#837902}} ex {{color|bg=#B2AC64|2=#B2AC64}} as well as [[Talk:BSicon/Icon geometry and SVG code neatness#Black INTs and DSTs|reuploading everything in set black]] as {{color|bg=#404040|white|#404040}} ex {{color|bg=#898989|white|#898989}}, alongside the renaming of the 90° curves and junctions from lf/rf/rg/lg to l/r/+l/+r. The ex colours made using the method I used match those generated by YLSS for the pinks to within {{frac|1|256}}, so there shouldn't be anything wrong with them. (The solution for set black, however, does not help so much in distinguishing {{bsq|eDST black}}/{{bsq|eINT black}} without looking at them side by side to figure out which shade of grey is which, so it may alternately be better to change the stroke width of INTs.) [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) <small><span style="display:inline-block;margin-bottom:-0.3em;vertical-align:-0.4em;line-height:1.2em;font-size:80%;text-align:left">Use &#123;&#123;[[Template:Reply to|re]]&#124;Jc86035&#125;&#125;<br />to reply to me</span></small> 09:04, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
: (Ignore the comment about set black. It wouldn't have worked very well with e/x INTs.) [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) 15:26, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
== Motorways ==

{{ping|Useddenim|Tuvalkin|Newfraferz87}} Is the motorway colour supposed to be #003399 or #007CC3 (British motorway signs are #0079C1, almost the same as the latter)? Some icons use the former {{bsq|SKRZ-Bo}} and some the latter {{bsq|uSKRZ-Boq}}. See also [[Commons:Deletion requests/File:BSicon uMROADo.svg|this discussion]]. [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) 03:26, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
:I would think {{color|white|bg=#007cc3|''' #007cc3 '''}} (or even '''{{color|white|bg=#0079c1| #0079c1 }})''', per {{U|Bob1960evens}}. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 14:30, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
:: {{re|Useddenim}} In addition, do you think there should be a white line between the two blue lines? Usually highway medians aren't painted white so I'd go for transparent. [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) 15:25, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
:::{{Ok|Agree}}. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 16:18, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
:: I'm with [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] per above, wasn't really aware of the color standard (or lack of it). &nbsp;&nbsp;<b>~</b>&nbsp;[[User:Newfraferz87|<span style="color:#003399;">New</span>]]<i>[[Special:Contributions/Newfraferz87|<span style="color:#008000;">fitz</span>]]</i>&nbsp;[[User talk:Newfraferz87|<sup style="color:#CC6633;">Yo!</sup>]] 08:46, 23 August 2017 (UTC)
:: {{Done}} Changed most of the icons to use {{color|white|bg=#0079c1| #0079c1 }}. [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) 10:06, 23 August 2017 (UTC)
* I was pinged, but I have no ideas about this one. Indeed I created the {{BS-q|RP2}} series because back then there was this chaos of multiple incongruous and overspecific road sets, all of them incomplete to boot. -- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] [[Special:Contributions/Tuvalkin|✇]] 23:23, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

== New color for Moscow Metro ==

Hi,

The official map and navigational items of Moscow Metro use color {{color|bg=#7ED3C9|white|#7ED3C9}} for [[:en:Bolshaya Koltsevaya line|Bolshaya Koltsevaya line]] (a.k.a. Third Interchange Contour), including the currently existing [[:en:Kakhovskaya line|Kakhovskaya line]]. This color considerably differs from the current sets, including the "Teal" {{color|bg=#339999|white|#339999}} color that we currently use in templates. Can we create a new set based on the official color? 

The closest color among the named ones is "[[:en:Tiffany Blue|Tiffany Blue]]" {{color|bg=#81D8D0|white|#81D8D0}}. However, we suspect that using its name may cause problems because it is a [[:en:Colour trade mark|colour trade mark]]. Therefore, we will probably have to name this new set like "[[:en:Robin egg blue|Robin egg blue]]" or "[[:en:Turquoise (color)|Turquoise]]", although these colors are a bit different.

What would you suggest? {{Ping|Tuvalkin|Lost on Belmont|YLSS|Useddenim}} --[[User:Michgrig|Michgrig]] ([[User talk:Michgrig|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 20:20, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

* I’m not against new colors, especially if they are distinct and needed, as in the case at hand. Would {{BS-q|exSTR_teal}} / {{color|bg=#82C0C0|white|#82C0C0}} not suffice, though? -- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] [[Special:Contributions/Tuvalkin|✇]] 10:53, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
** [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]], isn't it an EX color that is used for stations and sections under construcion? If you suggest that we use this color for operating sections and stations, what color should we use for those under construction? At present, we do use ex teal, see [[:ru:Шаблон:Третий пересадочный контур]]. --[[User:Michgrig|Michgrig]] ([[User talk:Michgrig|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 11:49, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
::* The way I usually use BSicons (in Portuguese wikipedia articles about Portuguese rail, metro and tram lines), the detailed diagrams, which are the ones likely to include things like former and planned segments, are created only with {{BS-q|STR}} and {{BS-q|uSTR}}. “Other colors” are only used for simple diagrams showing only stations and lines in use. (Compare [[:pt:Predefinição:Metro_de_Lisboa|this]] and [[:pt:Predefinição:MLmapa/CM|that]]) But if that’s not the usage you need, then you’ll need a new separate color with its own “ex” variant shade. But icons of that new color wiill either way look very similar to {{color|bg=#82C0C0|white|<tt>&nbsp;ex teal&nbsp;</tt>}}; that will cause problems if/when teal is used for Moscow diagrams. -- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] [[Special:Contributions/Tuvalkin|✇]] 12:13, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
:::* [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]], I gave you the link to the template whose icons we are discussing. This is the line under construction. One of its segments is already in operation; another one is going to be opened in Feb-March; the entire line will be complete in several years. And because we usually display prospective segments on diagrams, we do need a separate color with its own "ex" variant. Besides, according to prospective maps (https://imgur.com/Qzl1JM3), Moscow authorities are not planning lines of the teal color. --[[User:Michgrig|Michgrig]] ([[User talk:Michgrig|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 13:13, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
::::* Well, then: Since there is need for unused track icons and there’s no risk of confusion, lets go ahead and have a new color. -- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] [[Special:Contributions/Tuvalkin|✇]] 11:25, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

* A semi-transparent ex-{{color|bg=#82C0C0|white|<tt>&nbsp;ex teal&nbsp;</tt>}} is quite close to {{color|bg=#b0e0e6|black|<tt>&nbsp;powderblue&nbsp;</tt>}}, so why not {{bsn|exexteal}} or {{bsn|ex2teal}}? [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 16:52, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
:* [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]], colors that you suggest are quite close to what we need. But wouldn't having "exteal" and "ex2teal" while all other colors are names "color" and "ex_color" confuse editors? This is quite different from what many people are already used to. --[[User:Michgrig|Michgrig]] ([[User talk:Michgrig|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 23:08, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
::* {{bsq|STR teal}}{{bsq|exSTR teal}}{{bsq|exSTR exteal}}. Any problems? [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 13:11, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
:::* The only problem here is inconsistency with all other sets, regarding names of colors. Maybe we could call this color exteal? Then it would be like other sets - say, STR exteal and exSTR exteal. --[[User:Michgrig|Michgrig]] ([[User talk:Michgrig|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 14:40, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
::::* {{replyto|Michgrig}} Exactly.
:::::{|class=wikitable
! !! regular !! ex
|-
! teal
| {{bsq|STR teal}} || {{bsq|exSTR teal}}
|-align=center
! exteal
| {{bsq|exSTR teal}}<br>=<br>{{bsq|exSTR teal|alt=STR exteal}} || {{bsq|exSTR exteal}}
|}[[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 23:26, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
:::::* [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]], just to be absolutelty sure. Do you mean that we can create file redirects from "XXX exteal" to "exXXX teal" and use these redirects? --[[User:Michgrig|Michgrig]] ([[User talk:Michgrig|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 08:25, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
::::::* Yes (although I'd like to get a second opinion before actually going ahead). [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 11:17, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
:::::::* [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]]: Tuvalkin supported your idea. Can it be considered as a second opinion? :) --[[User:Michgrig|Michgrig]] ([[User talk:Michgrig|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 12:00, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
::::::::* Yes, that's good enough for me. Happy iconing. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 23:44, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

:::::* {{ec}} Well, I must say that I disliked the idea at first, but [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] spun it the right way (as he often does) and this naming scheme seems to be both productive and devoided of ambiguity. {{agree|I like it}}! -- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] [[Special:Contributions/Tuvalkin|✇]] 11:25, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

{{ping|Useddenim}} I've re-generated the ex-ex-teal colour in a way closer to how YLSS did it in 2013, although the grey table background is now mixed in twice instead of once. [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) 11:58, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
* [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]], could you please explicitly specify the code for the ex-ex-teal color that we should use? --[[User:Michgrig|Michgrig]] ([[User talk:Michgrig|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 15:11, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
*: {{re|Michgrig}} Firefox said it was {{color|black|#B1D7D7|bg=#B1D7D7}}. [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) 15:16, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
*:: [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]], is this ex-ex-teal? Are you sure? It seems like ex-teal actually. Google Chrome told me these are {{color|black|#82C0C0|bg=#82C0C0}} for exteal and {{color|black|#b0e0e6|bg=#b0e0e6}} for exexteal. --[[User:Michgrig|Michgrig]] ([[User talk:Michgrig|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 15:39, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
*::: {{re|Michgrig}} Did you calculate this using a grey table background (RDTs use #EFEFEF I think) and 0.6 opacity? (I used the table on [[Talk:BSicon/Colors/Archive 2]], and I did this for the set olive colour as well.) B1D7D7 is definitely much closer to B0E0E6 than to 82C0C0. Note that for some reason the RGBs in the PNG might differ from the actual RGBs in the SVG source depending on browser. [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) 15:45, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
*::::# The background colour should be {{color|black|<tt>&nbsp;#f9f9f9&nbsp;</tt>|bg=#f9f9f9}} (not {{color|black|<tt>&nbsp;#efefef&nbsp;</tt>|bg=#efefef}}).
*::::# ''Because'' of the calculation/generation variations, I deliberately chose the [[en:web colors#X11 color names|standard web colour]] {{color|bg=#b0e0e6|black|<tt>&nbsp;powderblue&nbsp;</tt>}} (#b0e0e6) as “close enough”. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 16:06, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
*::::: {{re|Useddenim}} I haven't tried using Chrome but from YLSS's calculations four years ago the difference shouldn't be very significant (#B0E0E6 is definitely visibly different from the colour shown when changing ex-teal to 0.6 opacity with both grey and white background, though). However, I might have accidentally used {{color|black|#f8f9fa|bg=#f8f9fa}} because of the MediaWiki colour changes a while ago so it might need to be re-done. [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) 16:33, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
*:::: [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]], no, I just opened an SVG file in my browser and looked for the color in the page code. --[[User:Michgrig|Michgrig]] ([[User talk:Michgrig|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 16:31, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
*:: [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]], the table [[:Category:BSicon/railway/other colors|here]] also says that the code for exteal is {{color|white|#82C0C0|bg=#82C0C0}}. <br> So guys, can the matter be considered settled? exteal color is {{color|white|#82C0C0|bg=#82C0C0}} and exexteal color is {{color|white|#b0e0e6|bg=#b0e0e6}}. Agree? --[[User:Michgrig|Michgrig]] ([[User talk:Michgrig|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 21:21, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

{{Routemap |title=Sample RDT |title-bg=#82c0c0 |legend=0 |top=[[File:Ex-exteal sample map.svg]] |bottom={{center|upper segment is {{color|bg=#b0e0e6|black|<tt>&nbsp;powderblue&nbsp;</tt>}}<br/>middle segment is {{color|bg=#82C0C0|white|<tt>&nbsp;ex teal&nbsp;</tt>}}<br/>bottom segment is {{color|bg=#b1d6d6|black|<tt>&nbsp;b1d6d6&nbsp;</tt>}}}} }}
However, after looking at this example, I agree that {{color|bg=#b1d7d7|black|<tt>&nbsp;b1d7d7&nbsp;</tt>}} '''should be''' the correct colour. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 15:12, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
* [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]], should be the correct color for exexteal, right? --[[User:Michgrig|Michgrig]] ([[User talk:Michgrig|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 21:30, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
*: {{re|Michgrig|Useddenim}} With background colour f9f9f9 (previously was f8f9fa) I get #B1D6D6. I'll update the file. [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) 13:57, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
*:: {{re|Useddenim}}, could you please confirm? --[[User:Michgrig|Michgrig]] ([[User talk:Michgrig|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 15:44, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
*::: The difference between '''#b1d6d6''' and '''#b1d7d7''' is negligible, so I have no objection. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 21:52, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Another color for Moscow Metro ==

Hi again,
For another line, we need another ex-color. As the main color, we plan to use {{color|1=white|2=exruby|bg=#DE64A1}}. Please advice us, what should be the ex-color? --[[User:Michgrig|Michgrig]] ([[User talk:Michgrig|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 11:51, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
:I get a value of {{color|bg=#df8db7|black|<tt>&nbsp;#df8db7&nbsp;</tt>}} for ex-exruby (although that may not be 100% correct). [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 20:51, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
:: [[user:Jc86035|Jc86035]], could you please confirm? --[[User:Michgrig|Michgrig]] ([[User talk:Michgrig|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 15:59, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
::: {{re|Michgrig|Useddenim}} I got {{color|bg=#E89FC4|black|{{mono|&nbsp;#E89FC4&nbsp;}}}}. [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) 16:02, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
:::: My color picker gives inconsistent results when switching between applications, but the lighter '''#e89fc4''' looks more accurate to me. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 21:54, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
* {{re|Jc86035|Useddenim|Tuvalkin}}, thank you all for both colors. --[[User:Michgrig|Michgrig]] ([[User talk:Michgrig|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 07:29, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

== Two new colors for Moscow Metro ==

{|align=right border=1 class=wikitable style="text-align:center; font-weight:bold"
 !Official color||Existing icon sets||RGB distance
 |-
 |rowspan=9 style="background-color:#1AC1F3; color:#000000"|#1AC1F3||style="background-color:#3399FF; color:#000000"|[[:Category:BSicon/railway/set_azure|azure]]||48.672
 |-
 |style="background-color:#069DD3; color:#000000"|[[:Category:BSicon/railway/set_sky|sky]]||52.154
 |-
 |style="background-color:#1A8BB9; color:#000000"|[[:Category:BSicon/railway/set_cerulean|cerulean]]||79.246
 |-
 |style="background-color:#99CCFF; color:#000000"|[[:Category:BSicon/railway/set_azure|ex-azure]]||128.039
 |-
 |style="background-color:#67C2E3; color:#000000"|[[:Category:BSicon/railway/set_sky|ex-sky]]||78.651
 |-
 |style="background-color:#73B7D3; color:#000000"|[[:Category:BSicon/railway/set_cerulean|ex-cerulean]]||95.105
 |-
 |style="background-color:#64ACD6; color:#000000"|[[:Category:BSicon/railway/set_blue|ex-blue]]||82.207
 |-
 |style="background-color:#649EC3; color:#000000"|[[:Category:BSicon/railway/set_denim|ex-denim]]||94.895
 |-
 |style="background-color:#00BFFF; color:#000000"|deepsky||
 |-
 |rowspan=6 style="background-color:#F58232; color:#000000"|#F58232||style="background-color:#FFAB2E; color:#000000"|[[:Category:BSicon/railway/set_saffron|saffron]]||42.391
 |-
 |style="background-color:#FF6600; color:#000000"|[[:Category:BSicon/railway/set_orange|orange]]||58.172
 |-
 |style="background-color:#FF9955; color:#000000"|[[:Category:BSicon/railway/set_orange|ex-orange]]||43.058
 |-
 |style="background-color:#DEA164; color:#000000"|[[:Category:BSicon/railway/set_orange|ex-ochre]]||63.166
 |-
 |style="background-color:#CC6600; color:#000000"|[[:Category:BSicon/railway/set_ochre|ochre]]||70.463
 |-
 |style="background-color:#ED9121; color:#000000"|carrot||24.042
|}
Hi all,
In Ruwiki, we recently found out that colors used by diagrams of Moscow Metro lines are quite far from the colors used by the official map and, therefore, [[:ru:Обсуждение проекта:Метро/Московский метрополитен#Точность соответствия официальной схеме|decided]] to try to make them closer. However, for some of the lines colors of existing icon sets do not fit. Please take a look:

So, if possible, please create two more icon sets for our maps. --[[User:Michgrig|Michgrig]] ([[User talk:Michgrig|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 19:27, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
: {{ping|Useddenim|Tuvalkin}} Maybe it's time to let new colours be created for arbitrary RGBs, even if they're somewhat close to other colours which already have sets? It's now feasible (for me, at least) to download thousands of BSicons and convert them all to a new set in about ten minutes with find-and-replace (e.g. by downloading, editing and uploading every icon and duplicating every category in set pink), and it's not like there's a tangible limit on how many files Commons can have. (And categories can now automatically be added for a lot of icons with [[Module:BSicon]].) [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) 04:01, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

:* Being technically able to create a multitude of practically indistinguishable files is not a reason to do so. -- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] [[Special:Contributions/Tuvalkin|✇]] 09:05, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

{{Routemap |legend=0 |title-bg=white |map='''icon'''! !~~'''background'''
ex-sky! !\exBHF sky\~~ ~~1ac1f3~~ ~~ ~~bg=#1ac1f3
orange! !\BHF orange\~~ ~~f58232~~ ~~ ~~bg=#f58232}}
:::I dunno. Although I agree in principle, these existing colours seem close enough. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 16:20, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
::: Well, if new sets can be created quickly and if we are not limited in the amount of files on Commons, are there any other reasons not to fulfill our request? <br> I understand that other people may want to have other colors created. But maybe it's resonable to set a certain threshold value of RGB proximity: if the color of any of the existing sets is closer than this threshold, a new set is not created; if there are no existing colors in the neiborhood of the requested one, a new set is allowed. Also, for the convenience of all people, there might be a diagram showing all colors of existing sets. --[[User:Michgrig|Michgrig]] ([[User talk:Michgrig|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 12:21, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
:::: {{re|Michgrig}} There's a table at [[Template:BS-color]], and one at the top of [[:Category:BSicon/railway/other colors]]. [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) 13:45, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
::::: {{re|Jc86035}} It seems that there are no other reasons not to do what we asked. Could you please create new icon sets, carrot and deepsky? --[[User:Michgrig|Michgrig]] ([[User talk:Michgrig|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 19:06, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
:::::: {{re|Michgrig}} Sure; before I upload, is there a reason for using colours that are slightly different to the original line colours? There's nothing wrong with just using the original colours, or something closer to them. [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) 11:17, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
::::::: {{re|Jc86035}} The suggested colors are the closest ''named'' colors. We considered it incorrect either to upload icons of a slightly different color under the name of an existing color or to invent a custom name for the color we need. --[[User:Michgrig|Michgrig]] ([[User talk:Michgrig|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 18:21, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
:::::::: {{re|Michgrig}} Okay. I'll notify you when I've uploaded the files. [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) 18:27, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
::::::::: I '''oppose''' the creation of these two colours, as there are existing ones ([[:Category:BSicon/railway/set sky|ex-sky]] and [[:Category:BSicon/railway/set orange|orange]]) that are close enough. We managed to harmonize Tokyo and Berlin, so there's no reason that Moscow can't follow suit. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 21:58, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::: {{re|Useddenim|Michgrig}} I won't be creating the icons yet, I guess. It would be helpful to define a minimum RGB distance, perhaps based on the current smallest RGB distance between two sets. [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) 19:14, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::* While I don’t disagree, it should be noted that the algebric distance between any two points in the [[:Category:Color cubes|RGB cube]] is not always a good proxi for the human optical similarity impression between their color shades. -- [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]] [[User talk:Tuvalkin|✉]] [[Special:Contributions/Tuvalkin|✇]] 22:28, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::* [[User:Tuvalkin|Tuválkin]], can you suggest another measure for quantitative estimation of color proximity? --[[User:Michgrig|Michgrig]] ([[User talk:Michgrig|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 16:35, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Unfortunately, color is very subjective and monitors go out of calibration, so a !vote might be the only practical way. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 17:37, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

{|align=right border=1 class=wikitable style="text-align:center; font-weight:bold"
 |existing colors||colspan=2 style="background-color:#FFAB2E; color:#000000"|[[:Category:BSicon/railway/set_saffron|saffron]]||colspan=2 style="background-color:#FF6600; color:#000000"|[[:Category:BSicon/railway/set_orange|orange]]
 |-
 |official colors||style="background-color:#FF9500; color:#000000"|Tokyo||style="background-color:#F68B1F; color:#000000"|Berlin 1||style="background-color:#F58232; color:#000000"|Moscow||style="background-color:#F47922; color:#000000"|Berlin 2
 |-
 |suggested color||colspan=4 style="background-color:#ED9121; color:#000000"|carrot
|}
::::::::::* {{re|Useddenim|Jc86035}} From the table on the right, you can see that the new color we suggest fits ''much better for the three lines out of four''. It is not sensible to keep insisting on using an existing color for all cases only on the which comes first basis, while it is not very close to several official colors at once. Orange and saffron are considerably different, and there are no shades of orange in between. This is the gap that we suggest to fill. As you can see, the new color can be used not only for Moscow.
::::::::::* As for the new blue color. As Tuvalkin said, it is evidently for a human eye that no existing shade of blue, including ex-sky, are not quite close, regardless of the RGB proximity value. And even if we use exsky, we will have to additionally upload ex-exsky icons and to create redirects from ex-sky to exsky. --[[User:Michgrig|Michgrig]] ([[User talk:Michgrig|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 16:35, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::{{re|Michgrig}} I have now looked at this discussion on 7 different monitors/devices, and I now feel that there is a sufficient difference to allow for a new "carrot"; but I still think that {{bsn|exsky}} is close enough to the blue that you want. In general I would prefer an extension to existing colours rather than adding new ones. Also, redirects are cheap. [[User:Useddenim|Useddenim]] ([[User talk:Useddenim|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 17:34, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::: One more reason that we can think of: first lines of Moscow Metro, except for Circular Line, were colored according to the Russian 7-color rainbow. None of the existing shades of blue are close to the blue as it is understood in Russia. Besides, {{bsn|exsky}} seems somewhat dirty. Btw, I've added deepsky to the table at the beginning of this topic, for the visibility sake. --[[User:Michgrig|Michgrig]] ([[User talk:Michgrig|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 18:04, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::: [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]], I suppose there are no objections to creating the carrot set. If you agree, could you please create it while we are waiting for the response from {{Ping|Useddenim|Tuvalkin}} concerning our latest arguments. --[[User:Michgrig|Michgrig]] ([[User talk:Michgrig|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 20:59, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
: {{ping|Michgrig}} Where'd you get the "carrot" colour from? I was not aware there was such a thing. [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) 04:07, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
:: [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]], all of these colors were provided by my colleagues in Ruwiki. I'm not the driver of this process but rather a messenger :) --[[User:Michgrig|Michgrig]] ([[User talk:Michgrig|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 12:07, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
:: [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]]: "Carrot" (together with "deepsky" {{color|bg=#00BFFF|white|#00BFFF}}) are suggested new colors.  --[[User:Michgrig|Michgrig]] ([[User talk:Michgrig|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 17:10, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

{{ping|Michgrig}} Sorry it took me so long; I've been busy with other things. Since some set deepsky icons were uploaded yesterday, and I don't think it would be possible to unilaterally delete them through the Commons deletion process with consensus on ruwiki that the icons are useful, I've uploaded about 1,600 icons for both the carrot and deepsky sets. [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|talk]]) 15:26, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
* {{ping|Jc86035}}, thank you so much. --[[User:Michgrig|Michgrig]] ([[User talk:Michgrig|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 15:28, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
== Road colors ==

[https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3ABS-colorlist&type=revision&diff=575648711&oldid=573454951 A recent edit] added road colors to [[Template:BS-colorlist]], but some advertised road colors are in conflict with past/current mapping practice, so quite a bunch of road icons obtainable on commons now use different colors in comparison to the ones recently documented.  This applies to at least [[:Category:BSicon/road/RA]] and [[:Category:BSicon/road/RM]] pair.

Is there any past reference in the talk archives of [[Talk:BSicon/Colors]] explaining the mismatch?  Has this been discussed previously elsewhere, e.g. on en:wikipedia?

The mismatching colors on display:

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center"
! object !! recently documented in BS-colorlist !! de facto standard / past or current practice
|-
|rowspan="2"| RA ||style="background:#EF161E"| {{code|EF161E}} ||style="background:#FF0000"| {{code|FF0000}}
|-
|style="background:#FFD702"| {{code|FFD702}} ||style="background:#FFFF00"| {{code|FFFF00}}
|-
|colspan="3"|
|-
|rowspan="2"| RM ||style="background:#F37176"| {{code|F37176}}  ||style="background:#E07070"| {{code|E07070}}
|-
|style="background:#FFEB81"| {{code|FFEB81}} ||style="background:#F0F080"| {{code|F0F080}}
|-
|colspan="3"|
|-
| || ↑ standard BSicon colors || ↑ uncorrected legacy colors
|}

Considering the amount of different authors needed to consent upon this change to adjust all the past uploads, what exactly is the benefit of not just sticking to current practice?

Although its possible to slowly migrate this will disrupt visual appearance of route diagrams making use of these icons and bulk upload/replacement at once needs broad consensus first, doesn't it?

If there already is consensus, please link it here and think about creating a month task/challenge to replace legacy icons if bulk replacement isn't an option.  --[[Special:Contributions/91.55.166.18|91.55.166.18]] 13:30, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

:See [[Talk:BSicon/New icons and icon requests/Archive 3#Highway medians]]. (There was also another discussion that I can't locate at the moment.) A related discussion is at [[Talk:BSicon/Colors/Archive 3#Motorways]]. There is ample precedent for standardizing colors and geometry. Furthermore, please '''do not''' create new talk pages that no one will see; just start a new topic thread on one of the existing pages. [[User:AlgaeGraphix|AlgaeGraphix]] ([[User talk:AlgaeGraphix|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 22:54, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
:Also, please show me where it says that road icons are ''not'' to be drawn to the standard width, and where incorrect icons are supposed to be left as is? [[User:AlgaeGraphix|AlgaeGraphix]] ([[User talk:AlgaeGraphix|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 12:57, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

:: "incorrect" needs a reference and please don't be offended, but you are "late to the party" if you try to impose your understanding of a standard onto the data that exists since years.  Like it or not, this data is coherent and thus serves as a reference in itself.  Do you claim having a consensus with all the authors having uploaded road icons to "correct" them post-factual on large scale in the way you see fit?

:: There is ''prior practice'' on the one hand and your strict understanding of a ''standard'' that does not differentiate between road and rail in many respects.  If you are to fight ''prior practice'' then please, ''by all means'', do so completely, instead of creating tons of mismatches.   It is less invasive however to just stick with ''prior practice'', because

::* lots of icons are used productively - if you change them in a quest for strict conformance to the standard it is very likely to break existing route diagrams
::* there may be lots of dissent from original authors with replacements
::* future contributions may be less frequent if authors are discouraged by the induced belief that original work is not honoured

:: Most users and people not as experienced as you will simply accept what they see as the defacto standard (the ''prior practice'').  This poses a problem for you if you 'correct' road icons at a pace of one or two by week.  Users notice that your uploads are rather recent and in opposition to prior practice.  Users that actually use the icons as building blocks in route diagrams will also notice that your 'new' icons simply do not fit the diagram with other, previous stock BSicons.  Hence you will continuously see attempts to 'correct' what you intend to be 'correct'.

:: If you feel you have the power to exchange all of them at a quicker pace, then go ahead.  Otherwise it may be best to stick with ''prior practice'' for now, even if you personally dissent and the reasons are apt.  On a parallel track, if there are more users in favour of repeating a standardizing effort with the stock data, one could try to organize (best with a published timeline on these talk pages) a scheduled bulk exchange, with less risk of damaging the appearance of existing route diagrams.

:: As for the colour mismatch ''only'', we could probably very easily automate the process exchanging these.  Even if we have a consensus for this on a small scale, it won't be that of all the previous authors involved.  Unless you have a superb idea how to establish such a consensus up front, you're left with trial-and-error:  do the bulk replace and hope your change is accepted.

:: As for the widths:  I don't think rail and road lines should have the same standard width, even if we did not have existing data as precedent.  In reality road and rail width rarely match and even if we argue with abstraction, it won't make much sense, because it won't be long and users will realize that e.g. a dirt road set is just a colour variant of a rail set.  In short: ''Dedicated road widths ensure that graphic elements are percepted indeed as a different entity.''

:: --[[User:Cmuelle8|Cmuelle8]] ([[User talk:Cmuelle8|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 16:10, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

::: A look at the header of [[:Category:BSicon/road]] shows all the different road types.  Unlike rail, widths vary, e.g. motorway lines are drawn with greater width than RP1 or RE, RY, for instance.  There is a clear relation between line width and road class.  This would be lost if 100 units was the default for all or a majority.  RE, RY are close to 100, RP1 uses 75 units, RD at 50.  There will be lots of work if all of this is condemned incorrect for the sole reason that it wasn't documented at the time it evolved as de facto standard.  Specifically for RA and RM the middle and outer line widths should be equal, it has been derived from [https://www.landkartenarchiv.de/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/shell1_autobahnkarte.jpg prior practice elsewhere].  --[[Special:Contributions/91.55.175.37|91.55.175.37]] 17:35, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

::::Ah, but there ''is'' a logical reason for standardizing the widths at the "default" value of 100: editors continue to use icons in ways not envisioned by the original uploaders. Keeping uniform widths and colours allows for "mix 'n' match"ing. I personally can't see a reason why to place {{bsq|STRq yellow}} next to {{bsq|RAq}} next to {{bsq|STRq red}} (or {{bsq|fSTRq}} and {{bsq|RGq}} – you get the idea), but someone else might feel the need. {{bsn|RP2}} can be mixed with {{bsn|set grey}}, 75 (RP1) is the same width as the {{bsq|WASSER}} set, and {{bsq|RD1}} is the same 50px width as ''every other'' narrow icon. 
::::Your vaunted "prior practice" is really just a free-for-all. Before several dedicated editors tackled the task of fixing and standardising things, there were approximately ''three'' times as many colours as now, formations were 40, 50 and 60 px wide with little regularity as to their placement, {{bsq|INT}} and {{bsq|DST}} circle sizes and widths varied from editor to editor… The clean-up took months, and at the time the roadway and canal-specific icons were left for "another day". Your creation of a new "standard" ({{bsn|/set ''x''/set ''y''/}} instead of {{bsn|/set mixed/}}) just prompted a couple of use to take a look at things again. [[User:AlgaeGraphix|AlgaeGraphix]] ([[User talk:AlgaeGraphix|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 00:33, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
== Colours and shades ==

Dear all,

I’ve only recently become acquainted with this section of the internet (hi?). Budding rail enthusiast here, currently doing my MSc in Town Planning. I’ve got a background in Quality Control and Assurance, so I understand the need for asset control and rationalisation, but in an age where many cities and regions have transport systems with defined and established colour schemes and brand consistency is a big deal, why we’re constraining the colour sets to such a narrow set. If someone wants to create a series of sets that align with their city or region’s transport modes, implement them in an area of Wikipedia, all whilst adding and modifying and need be, why shouldn’t we let them?

I realise as I write this that I’m probably going to be told that the difference between the existing colours and any regional variations is minimal and we don’t want folks mixing different shades in the same diagram by accident, hence the separation, but it really shouldn’t be as complicated as all that. I appreciate that you’ve all spent a lot of time rationalising colours and comparing shades and usages over the years. I appreciate and respect it. However I do ask that you ease controls somewhat. I’ve read back through your archives, so I know your arguments for and against this proposal. However, these debates were a decade ago and I think they need reconsidering. [[User:Oldhamtw|Oldhamtw]] ([[User talk:Oldhamtw|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 20:20, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

:@[[User:Oldhamtw|Oldhamtw]]: In the past, the naming and design of many of the icons was iterated upon more frequently, and some commonly used icons were not "finalized" in terms of their naming or design until several years ago. It would have made sense to restrict the amount of colours to reduce the maintenance burden and to make things less confusing.
:Moving to a model where sets can be introduced on an ad hoc basis would cause users to create and upload icons that are essentially only used for a very small number of diagrams. This would also be potentially undesirable, even if it would improve the accuracy of the colours used in the diagrams. If this approach were taken, it would significantly increase the amount of time it would take to create diagrams for a new system, since almost all of the files used would have to be newly created.
:I don't disagree with the idea that it would be better if the colours could be more accurate, but presumably the practical limitations on doing this have not quite gone away. [[User:Jc86035|Jc86035]] ([[User talk:Jc86035|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 12:19, 11 April 2023 (UTC)