Commons:Categories for discussion/2018/07/Category:Females with firearms
Move to "Women with firearms", to avoid the pejorative use of "females" as a noun to mean "women". Additionally, "female" refers to sex, which is based on sex organs and secondary sexual characteristics, neither of which we know from these pictures of women with firearms. "Women" refers to how people present themselves and identify, which we can see from the pictures, as the women pictured seem to present as women and are often identified in the photo captions as women. This will involve renaming the category's subcategories as well. See Category talk:Females with machine guns for more information. Chumash11 (talk) 21:22, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose. Commons uses the term in a non-pejorative way in many places. We can't just rename them unless we are certain that all the people shown with the weapons are adults: "females" includes girls as well as women. In some of the images, we can't see the face of the person, so we can't tell. In others, the people could be underage. --Auntof6 (talk) 00:15, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
- But that point was already explained that one could considere girls also as women.--Sanandros (talk) 04:20, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
- Where was that point made? In other discussions, I've seen girls not considered women. They are females, certainly, but not women. --Auntof6 (talk) 04:44, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
- It was made on the Females with machine guns talk page. Elsewhere, I've often seen girls considered women. "Females" sounds overly technical and grammatically, not to mention derogatory. --Chumash11 (talk) 20:47, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
- I have to disagree with that opinion. If you look at Category:Human females by stage of development, you'll see categories for different ages of female humans: none of them are subsets of the others, and the specific age ranges are listed on all the subcategories. If anything, any "females" categories that are only for humans need to be renamed to "human females" or "female humans". Besides, people could be looking specifically for images of children, so why have a category called "women" include them when the common use of that word includes only adults? --Auntof6 (talk) 22:34, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
- It was made on the Females with machine guns talk page. Elsewhere, I've often seen girls considered women. "Females" sounds overly technical and grammatically, not to mention derogatory. --Chumash11 (talk) 20:47, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
- Where was that point made? In other discussions, I've seen girls not considered women. They are females, certainly, but not women. --Auntof6 (talk) 04:44, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
- But that point was already explained that one could considere girls also as women.--Sanandros (talk) 04:20, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
And on top of it all is that there are very few photos whose authors took care to provide description, specify age and marital status of certain female depicted. Asian ladies wear paranjas that hide everything and you can't tell for sure is that a woman or a shahid wrapped with explosives. Oppose per above. ВоенТех (talk) 18:03, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose. I don't don't know of any clear definition that says "females" refers strictly to physical sex and not social gender. Rather "female gender" is commonly used to discuss social gender. One can identify as female just as well as one can identify as a woman. The articles linked in the talk page oppose using the word "females" in place of "women", but that's clealy not what's going on here since we have a sub-category Category:Women with firearms. - Themightyquill (talk) 09:17, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
Keeping per opposition above. BMacZero (talk) 05:54, 26 January 2019 (UTC)