Mactruth

I have been banned from all Macedonia related topics for 2 months, this includes talk pages. If you need sources or want to talk about a Macedonia issue, simply leave a messge

Note: If you leave a message here I will most often respond here

Welcome!

Hello, Mactruth! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions to this free encyclopedia. If you decide that you need help, check out Getting Help below, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your username and the date. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement. Happy editing! Dlohcierekim's sock (talk) 23:56, 5 May 2008 (UTC) Getting started A tutorial • Our five pillars • Getting mentored How to: edit a page • upload and use images Getting help Frequently asked questions • Tips Where to ask questions or make comments Request administrator attention Policies and guidelines Neutral point of view • No original research Verifiability • Reliable sources • Citing sources What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons Manual of Style • Three-revert rule • Sock puppetry Copyrights • Policy for non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The community Build consensus • Resolve disputes Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • No legal threats Community Portal • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists Writing articles Be bold in editing • Develop an article The perfect article • Manual of style Stubs • Categories • Disambiguation Pages needing attention • Peer review Miscellaneous User name • User pages • Talk pages Clean up: General - Spam - Vandalism Join a WikiProject • Translation Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

In a 2007 arbitration case, administrators were given the power to impose discretionary sanctions on any user editing Balkans-related articles in a disruptive way. If you engage in further inappropriate behaviour in this area, you may be placed under sanctions including blocks, a revert limitation or an article ban. Thank you. Toddst1 (talk) 00:02, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

About the deletion of the Hellenism in the near east map

Hi, the author of the image in question was George Soteriadis, according to the description page. According to one of our contributors,

The first search result for "George Soteriadis" on JSTOR is a 1942 paper (Eugene Vanderpool, "An Archaic Inscribed Stele from Marathon") which says in part "... Professor George Soteriadis, who was then doing archaeological work... . In the spring of 1940, at Professor Soteriadis's request, the Ministry of Education ordered the stone to be brought to Athens". Assuming it's the same person (which seems likely), then he has not been dead 70 years.

Ergo, the image was still in copyright in the United Kingdom (the country of origin, which has a copyright term of life of author + 70 years), and Commons policy requires images to be free in both the country of origin and the United States. Given that it was published in 1918 (again, according to the image description), you can upload it to Wikipedia, since WP follows US copyright law alone; this is pre-1923 and therefore public domain in the US. Cheers, Lewis Collard! (it's cold out there, but i'm telling you, i'm lonely) 22:43, 18 May 2008 (UTC) (please reply on my Commons talk page with further questions)

Nikodim Tsarknias

See that the choice of words is very careful in order to respect NPOV (Neutral Point of View). He declares that his "ethnic Macedonian". No problem with that, because he can declare whatever he likes. I can declare that I am from Mars. But when we are referring in general we have to respect the consensus. He is not member of any ethnic Macedonian minority because this thing doesn't officially exist. Friendly, Magioladitis (talk) 00:57, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Minorities in Greece

I thought you reuploaded. Didn't you? It's good to have both maps. Can you find a map showing the other point of view? Maps really make the article look nicer. I understand that only one map is not very good but I can't help with that. I have no access to maps. Friendly, Magioladitis (talk) 01:05, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

That's nice. Please assume good faith in other user's actions and use edit summary box.

I won't change your last edits in Tsarknias article even if I disagree. I am sure someone else will do it. I suggest you to read Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Macedonia-related articles) very carefully. Many editors around the world worked hard to find a way to write things about Macedonia in a way that respects both countries and keeps a NPOV.

I am just following Wikipedia's policy and I am not getting involved in anything else (I certainly didn't like the "are you insane?" comment in the summary and I think if we both used talk pages more you would be more calm).

Once again, friendly and with respect in the effort you make to improve articles, Magioladitis (talk) 01:11, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

You can always write it in way showing that he declares "ethnic Macedonian" but don't present it as a NPOV fact because they are people who disagree. I think you can figure out to say what you want without endless causing edit wars. Cooperation and understanding helps us all to solve our problems and not only in Wikipedia. I wish you a good night, it's already very late and I have to wake up early tomorrow. -- Magioladitis (talk) 01:19, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Macedonians (ethnic group). Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. If necessary, pursue dispute resolution. Laveol ^T 22:46, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Macedonian Template Image

Could I have a link please? I assume you're talking about Template:Ethnic Macedonians but I don't see an image vote on the discussion page...Sorry for appearing (or perhaps being) a bit dumb! Cheers, PeterSymonds (talk) 08:03, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Consensus seems to be that the Vergina Sun image should be used, so I'll update the template with that. Thanks, PeterSymonds (talk) 08:14, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Actually...I don't know how. HTML is not my strong point, so I'll flag an {{editprotected}} on the talk page and let another admin do it! Cheers, PeterSymonds (talk) 08:17, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

"ethnic" dab

I assume you know that our autonym is "Macedonians" (Makedonci) and not "Ethnic Macedonians" (Etnički Makedonci), so please don't capitalise the E (it should be ethnic not Ethnic). Also, "ethnic" is in no way a qualifier for the language. If you need to dab the language it has to be "Slavic Macedonian" or "Macedonian Slavic". Of course the language hardly ever needs to be disambiguated. BalkanFever 04:56, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Fala za poddrškata :) BalkanFever 05:31, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Note

Per WP:ARBMAC I'm banning you for two months from all pages across Wikipedia that relate to Macedonia: in addition, you are banned indefinitely from creating or altering any redirects that relate to Macedonia. This is due to your recent disruptive editing, as documented above and on my talk page. Moreschi (talk) (debate) 10:48, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I stated the issue of History of Modern Macedonia speaking only about History of Greek Macedonia several times to multiple Admins. No action was being taking even though I clearly showed what the issue was and why. The banning is a bit strict and will be taking for review. Mactruth (talk) 16:56, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Also, I do find it a bit ridiculous that before even allowing me to state my side of the issue, your quick action of banning occurred. This WILL be taking for review. Mactruth (talk) 16:59, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

The funny thing is I have contributed WELL to the Macedonia articles and I have been neutral, calm and effective in working with the other people writing Macedonia articles. The problem was ADMINS would not address the History of Modern Macedonia being written only about History of Greek Macedonia, and the article name is still monopolization. ADMINS lack of action, after time and time being shown the issue, the the reason for my reaction. Mactruth (talk) 17:02, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Question

Hi,i'm a director in the greek wikipedia and i want to ask you something about some «Macedonians» in Canada.If they consider themselves as «Macedonians» (i dont mind if they are or not) why they dont change threir &8#@ names?It is very annoing for Greeks that persons with names such p.e. Staikos,Stamkos,Stavro (greek names) are saying that they are «Macedonians».Why they dont change their names into Stamkov,Staikovsky or Stavrev?Are they afraid the greek authorities for god's shake? p.s. Sorry for the «Macedonians» but as a Greek i cant call you as you like.81.24.183.185 (talk) 21:28, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Good question mate. First of all, I'd like to state they do view themselves as Macedonians. The difference is these are ethnic Macedonians from the Greek region of Macedonia (see: Aegean Macedonians). From what I know, they do not change their name because they do not know what their last name was before their family members were forced to change it to a Greek name. Also, they keep it as a reminder to Greeks that Macedonia had to be Hellenized to become Greek after 1913. It was very tragic when our people were forcefully Hellenized, but we are moving on. Your past Greek government forced it upon them, so you cannot blame us for your current "annoyance."

ps: You are a human being that can think for yourself. If you want to allow self-determination and democracy to flourish, then you are perfectly allowed to call us Macedonian. Simply because your Greek doesn't give an excuse since I know many Greek Americans that call me Macedonian, and they don't get upset about it either. Your Greek government has been irresponsible and I have a lot of documents to prove your government has been demonizing Macedonians and withholding information from Grek citizens which shows the Greek government has been childish over the past years (and especially after NATO 2008) Mactruth (talk) 22:59, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

First of all i dont call you «Macedonians» cause i dont believe that you are.But i can accept the term Slavmacedonians without question.Secontly about the names i think that this is not a good excuse,anyway if i were on their position i would change my name(also some of them are border-jumpers and their consiquence depend on who asking them) 3rd,Back to 1913 Macedonia was a region with many nationalities and the place that is now the Greek part of Macedonia was mainly Greek after of course the muslim majority,the only places where Slavs were more than Greeks were Kilkis(Kukush i think),Moglena,Demir Hissar and the region of Florina.4th The Greeks in US dont see all,this issue as the Greeks in Greece,in Germany or Australia.Most of them consider themselves 1st as American. And last, i dont believe that the greek goverment is responsible for your NATO issue but your goverment 81.24.183.185 (talk) 14:36, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

First of all, I don't care how you call me, what is important is WHAT I CALL MYSELF. The definition of "Macedonian" is different between you and I, your Greek government has taught you to be Macedonian, you must be Greek. But I have a different definition for the term "Macedonian" and as that, I call myself Macedonian.

Second, You asked me why they didn't change their name, I gave you a reason... I didn't ask for your opinion on the reasons. I am not an Aegean Macedonian, I am from the Republic of Macedonia and my reason was only based on interaction and friendship with Aegean Macedonians (Macedonians from the Macedonia which touches the Aegean Sea, or simply called "Aegeans"). If you want to discuss the reasons further, contact an Aegean Macedonian, though they may have much more anger towards Greeks then I.

Third, The region of Macedonia was composed of many ethnicities, that is true. But the nationally awakening Macedonian ethnicity became the majority ethnicity in the region of Macedonia. Before the expulsions of Macedonians, before the population exchanges, Macedonians were the majority in the Macedonia which touches the Aegean Sea (please view: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d6/Hellenism_in_the_Near_East_1918.jpg). Your own professors proved the overwhelming ethnic majority in Macedonia were the Macedonians and Turks. The Greeks comprised 10% of the region of Macedonia before 1913.

Fourth, it is funny you speak for other Greeks while I myself live in America and I know many Greeks who call myself Macedonian and are fine with it. Your Greek government has demonized us, but most Greeks don't have a problem with us after understanding our view. I am wondering what was reported in Greek media in order to allow the Greek government to veto us? Can you please show me? Look at these actions by the Greek government before and after the NATO summit:

Greek Paper shows Bush as Hitler and a Macedonian swastika (the same time the Greek swastika occurred - right before NATO)

Macedonians attacked in Greece

Another cowardly attack on Macedonians in Greece

Greek authorities continue to abuse ethnic Macedonians

Greece abuses Macedonians at the border, again

Greek MP asks for death penalty for Macedonians in Greece

Greek-Macedonian name dispute leads to ban on lamb meat

Macedonia Plane Barred from Greek Airspace

Macedonia to ask Greece for explanation on MAT

Greece bans financial transfers from, and to Macedonia

Greece outrages Macedonia with ban on presidential flight

UMD Taken Aback by Metropolitan Anthimos’ Threatening Statement (Top Greek bishop calls for war with Macedonia)

Another Greek metropolitan bishop states territorial claims for Macedonia

Greek media fumes over comments from MOC

Greece's comments of H.H. Stefan's statement in Rome intended for domestic political scene

Heated debate at the EU, Macedonian delegation not present

Protest letter sent to Nato over an incident Mactruth (talk) 21:36, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

That is all the responses I will return. if you would like to continue the conversation, make an account on Wikipedia. Until then. Mactruth (talk) 22:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

[FYROM authorities block Greek KFOR convoy]

Oh dont forget your Archbishop Stephen nationalistic statements about «your Solun» ::[Archbishop Stephen nationalistic statements ] and also the fotos that shows the greek flag with the nazi symbol and our prime minister (who is dickhead anyway) as a nazi... Pavlos1988 (talk) 15:52, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I knew the Macedonian authorities blocked Greek convoy. The Greek government believes they can do whatever they wish. Just a few days ago they forced a Macedonian Airlines Transit flight down - risking many lives in the process. Read the following:

Macedonia's constitution doesn't allow for a foreign Army to enter Macedonia's territory. The political situation between the countries also contributed (source: MacedoniaOnline).

Not to be rude but given the situation at the time, it is perfectly reasonable that the Macedonian government did not allow the Greek government in. Remember the Greek fires during the summer? Macedonia sent 3 firefighting vehicles, 26 professional firefighters and 60 members of the Protection and Rescue Directorate but Greek authorities rejected the help of Macedonian firefighters and did not allow them to come into Greece simply because they had the word "Macedonia" on their sleeves - even though allowing them into Greece could have saved more lives (source: A1 News). You guys complain about the Greek army being rejected during a time when Greeks have been discriminating, abusing and harassing Macedonians in Greece... but Greece initially rejected Macedonia when Macedonia was offering help in a time of need a year earlier. Greeks allows view themselves as victims, and this is a great example.

Archbishop Stephen stated the following:

" Today in your birth place everything is dust and ash, there is no freedom for a book, or a letter, or a word from yours and our language. In the region in which all then spoke as you and as we today, in this time of ours, it is even forbidden not only to talk in that language but also to pray on that language, and even the existence of that language. Today, unfortunately, the behavior is worse than that of the trilingual in your time. Saint, today everything is ruined from that which could have reminded us of you and of us, in Solun and in Kukus, in Lerin and in Kostur. There neither the alive nor the dead have their peace."

Which is in no way territorial claims. It is well known Macedonians made up the majority of Macedonia before 1913. After 1913, there was a great Hellenization which occurred. Slavic languages were not allowed to be spoken, non-Greeks were forced to pledge allegiance to Greece and to only speak Greek. It is well documented in the Helsinki Report, Human Rights Watch, US reports and other documents. So, considering the Metropolitan Bishop Anthimos openly stated territorial claims against Macedonia long ago with the following:

“Macedonia is Greek . . . and parts of it that are missing should be returned.”

Which was immediately followed with another territorial claim from the Metropolitan of Galabryta Ambrosios, which stated:

"Since the attack is the best defense, the Metropolitan of Thessaloniki did very well. Skopje citizens rip the benefits of Monastery region, which is part of the Greek territory"

About the Greek swastika, the Macedonian government condemned it, the artist who did create it was a refugee of the Macedonia which touches the Aegean Sea, and the posters were privately owned. This was all before NATO. I posted an article which shows the Macedonian swastika was in circulation in Greece at the same time the Greek swastika occurred, the only difference is while Macedonia condemned the Greek swastika, Greece did not condemn the Macedonian swastika. The Greek government is known for hiprocracy and this is a great example. Mactruth (talk) 18:06, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Minorities in Republic Of Macedonia

The funniest thing is that some nationalistic factors in FYROM instead of wory about who to deal with the ethnic minorities in their country talking about the «enslaved» co patriots in Greece...If acording to them your 25-30 (the most) thousand brothers must «liberate» what about the 25% Albanians ,the more than 100000(according to some sources) Gypsies,the Serbs,the Turks etc.Do you really believe that Bulgarians in FYROM are about 10000?(As for the Greeks i dont believe that they are only 500 but also more that few thousand)Pavlos1988 (talk) 16:09, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Macedonia is one of the few countries which recognize all minorities. Greece complaints about Greeks in Macedonia and Albania, but at the same time they don't recognize any minorities and force assimilation onto the individuals living in Greece. This is great evidence that Greece desires one thing: Greater Greece.

25% Albanians in Macedonia in reality is lower. It was shown in the past elections that Albanians from Kosovo were coming to Macedonia to cast a vote, then going back to Kosovo considering villages of 150 people were registering over 400 votes. Also, many Albanians from Kosovo still live in Macedonia. During the Kosovo conflict, hundreds of thousands of Albanians from Kosovo fled into Macedonia and have not moved back to Kosovo yet due to economic and ethnic issues.

The Gypsies, Serbs, and Turks have been shown to have minority rights, and I have not found any minority rights documents to contradict this. I believe the amount of Bulgarians in Macedonia are around 2,000. In the last census it was recorded that 1,200 peoples declared themselves as Bulgarians. You state their are a few thousand Greeks, but that is just speculation. Please show me minority rights organization document which confirms your argument of Bulgarian/Greek minority rights issues. Mactruth (talk) 18:14, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

macedonia name dispute

i will keep any eye on the Macedonia name dispute. but if you have noticed most of my edits refer to cultural and linguistic pages. As for politics i prefer not to get involved :). Also would you be able to help me restart Macedonian Canadians?? It was deleted but i need some photos and more information. Thanks. PMK1 (talk) 05:50, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

The topic ban means he can't. I'll try and offer a hand. The Canadian Encyclopedia source on FP's talk page had most (if not all) of the info: you can cite some from there but seriously, reword it first. I think the photos still exist, but I have no clue what they were titled. BalkanFever 06:04, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh, ok lol i thought it was only for Macedonia not Macedonians. Thanx, but yeh canada encyclopedia had most of the info. PMK1 (talk) 03:08, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Reply

Yes, your ban does include talk pages, as well as Wikipedia space and all other namespaces where the content relates to Macedonia. Please desist from editing anything Macedonian-related, or I will block you. BTW, the way to deal with anon trolling on talk pages is to remove said trolling, not to reply in an equally trollish manner by labelling Greeks "Christian Turks"". Moreschi (talk) (debate) 13:00, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I am still allowed to talk about Macedonia issues on my page, right? About the trolling, you are right, my blood boils sometimes and my emotions come into play. When that happens, it is difficult for me not to defend myself. I will do a better job at that, considering it is foolish comments.

About the amount of time banned, is there a way to contest the time amount banned? Mactruth (talk) 21:24, 17 June 2008 (UTC)