Michael David

Archives:

• Archive 1

Re: Archiving

You did it right. You simply had to edit the redirect and replace it with content. To edit a redirect, you simply click the redirect page name on the "(Redirected from redirect name)" line at the top of the page you were redirect to and it will take you back to the page you were redirected from. You can then edit it like a normal page.

As for your archive, I'd suggest putting the archive template at the top and subst'ing it. To do that, edit the archive page and move the template to the top, but use the {{subst:archive}} syntax. This will expand the template and prevent changes from the template showing up on your page. -- JLaTondre 23:15, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Categories on TR Page

Michael - It's the second section from the very bottom. At the bottom is a list of all the foreign language versions of the TR article and above it is the list of categories.

Re TR and heart disease. Yes, TR's basic issue in addition to some congenital issues (he had heart issues even in as a child and took nitroglycerine tablets) was un-controlled eating especially of animal fat and cholesterol - lots of steaks and whipped cream for breakfast. Of course, they didn't know what we know. Regards - SimonATL 16:07, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Re TR in Brazil. Yes, at one point he was so sick that he collapsed to his knees with acute angina. Probably had a minor heart attack. If he had not been attended by a physician and his son, Kermit Roosevelt (about whom I greatly expanded Kermit's wiki article), TR wouldn't have made it. You might want to check out the organization founded to preserve TR's papers, his home in Oyster Bay and his contributions, the Theodore Roosevelt Association, founded in 1920, I joined last year for only $35. Their site is http://www.theodoreroosevelt.org and the TRA has an annual meeting in Atlanta, at the beautiful Atlanta History Center, Oct 20-22 of this year. Also, for a wonderful bio on TR, check out Edmund Morris' two books, "The Rise of Theodore Roosevelt," winner of the pulitzer prize, and "Theodore Roosevelt, Rex." . The lady who wrote a recent book on TR's Brazillian Trip, Millard, I think, will be a featured speaker at the Annual Meeting. By the way, that Theodore Roosevelt article on Wikipedia is probably the best single article on TR on the iternet outside of the TRA site. Regards SimonATL 16:38, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Re:Years First?

Michael David,

Hi. Thanks for your message. I usually tend to place birth and death years first for two reasons: nearly every biography on Wikipedia lists them this way and so when I began writing articles, I tended to do this as well. Also, generally, in lists on other encyclopedias, etc., numbers generally tend to be listed before letters. But, of course, there is no particular "rule" or anything, so I suppose neither one is "right" or "wrong", I just generally try to follow the Wiki format for consistency - and most list birth and death years first. Cheers. ExRat 20:37, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

reminder of previous discussion

see User_talk:Agathoclea#Categories Agathoclea 22:20, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

nothing has changed: Categories: Suicides by methods | Deaths by firearm. Agathoclea 06:17, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Katefan0

Hi Michael, thanks for your note. In my opinion, losing Katefan0 was one of the biggest blows this project has taken: she was an amazingly fair and dedicated administrator with over 10,000 edits - high quality every one of them.

I am in a rush so I'll give you the very quick version: When she first joined Wikipedia, she didn't use her full name, but she did give some clues to what she did for a living, what city she lived in, where she had gone to school, etc. Eventually, someone took the time to go see if they could figure out who she was, and they were able to correctly guess her real name. They sent harrassing letters to her place of work about her. She decided that being a part of this project was not worth that sort of abuse. I don't blame her at all, but it deeply saddens me.

User:Phaedriel does have her real name and employer listed, and she has also experienced people calling her place of employment making inquiries about where she lives and that sort of thing.

There have been other examples as well. Essentially, anyone that discloses their real name, or even clues to their real name, is taking on some very serious risk.

If you go to Katefan0's page, there should be a link on the left called "E-mail this user". It will only be available to you if you have put an e-mail address into your Wikipedia options and if you have then validated it by replying to auto-generated e-mail confirming that it is your real address. When you click on that link, it will e-mail her without revealing her address to you. Your address will be revealed to her, so she may respond if she wishes.

Best, Johntex\^talk 22:16, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

re: Misspelled Article Name

Go to the Hely Hutchison Almond page and at the top, there will be a tab titled "move". Select that and it will give you the option to rename the page. -- JLaTondre 22:35, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

No problem. -- JLaTondre 01:53, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

CFD again for "Entertainers by age upon death"

They are trying to delete this group of categories for the 4th time. Closing soon. --Blainster 10:22, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Lists and categories

A list is just like any other article, except it is called a list. Here is an example . Articles are put in the list by adding a link in the list. Categories are created by the software, you have to put each article in the category by adding a link from each article. Here's an example. See: Wikipedia:Categories, lists, and series boxes. -- Samuel Wantman 22:18, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

If the categories were deleted there could be a new article called List of entertainers by their age at death. The contents of the article would look something like this:

This list of entertainers is ordered by their age at death. Blah, blah, blah, suicide, murder, drugs, car crashes, blah, blah, blah...

• Freddie Prinze - accidental shooting due to the influence of Quaaludes - age 22
• Ian Curtis - blah blah blah - age of XX
• Bobby Fuller - etc...

This could be nicely formatted (see featured lists for examples), and ordered by age, and/or by cause of death.

A link to the list would need to be added to each article. For example in Freddie Prinze at the appropriate spot it would say...

...Freddie Prinze died at the age of 22 at 1:00 p.m. on 29 January.

No problem, happy to help. Yes, List of suicides is an example as is the example I mentioned above List of largest suspension bridges, which is only different because it is formatted in a table and has pictures. I suggested featured lists as a place to look to see examples of the best lists on Wikipedia. -- Samuel Wantman 01:40, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Heya

Noticed on the Village Pump that you'd had some conflicts with unqualified people reverting your hard work. This is regrettable; should it become a problem again, please let me know, and I'll do what I can to fix things. DS 03:39, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Your suggestion has been tried. It was called Nupedia. The problem is that the genuine experts don't always have time to create articles; sometimes the only ones who can fill in the blanks are dilettantes with holes in their schedules. DS 21:19, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Psychology Wiki

The Logo for the Psychology Wiki.

Hi Michael,

I noticed that you work in Clinical Psychology and Psychotherapy, and thought you might be interested in this project which I am involved in, The Psychology Wiki.

I won't say too much, as I'd like you to judge it for yourself, but you should find that it is different from Wikipedia, because approximately 90% of our contributors so far are psychologists, either professionals like yourself, academics, or students and trainees. So far, our contributors are enjoying working in a Psychology community.

Our site is hosted by a company called Wikia, which was founded by Jimmy Wales and Angela Beesley. There are Google Ads on the site, but we dont make money from the project, they're just to pay for the bandwidth, storage and technical support that Wikia give us.

Have a look and see what you think

Mostly Zen 00:17, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi again Michael,

The best email to use to contact me is my academic one: T.M.Michael(AT)newman.ac.uk (substitute @ of course :)

We are really trying to attract as many professionals and academics, as well as undergraduates (such as myself) to the project. I am in the UK, and its rather late at night here, so I will have to reply to any emails in the morning... Goodnight

Mostly Zen

Village pump

Happy to discuss by e-mail. Mine should be activated on the e-mail this user feature. Cheers -- Samir धर्म 05:44, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Category renaming

A naming error can be changed without debate if it meets the criteria for "Speedy renaming". See Categories for discussion/Speedy. But it still must be listed there because there is no "move tab" on the category pages, so an administrator must do it. I am not an admin. (and don't do a whole lot with categories). It is a good idea to follow discussions at the Wikipedia:Categorization talk page and its subpages Help:Category and Wikipedia:Categorisation FAQ (with their talk pages) for a while to gain some experience before diving in. By the way, the reason I didn't answer your earlier question about how often a cat can be nominated for deletion is because I don't know the answer. It would be a good question to ask on one of those pages if it has not already been addressed. --Blainster 21:38, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

I just looked at Category:Suicides by methods and see that "suicides by gas", not "suicides by gassing" is one of the cats, so I'm not sure that your desired change is the best. Maybe you should ask someone else, or wait to see if there are any objections first. The supercat "Suicides by methods" should also be changed, to "Suicides by method". --Blainster 21:47, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Re: Sándor Kocsis

Thank you for contributing to an article in much need of being expanded. - ChaChaFut 00:36, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

IP vandalism

Ah, I hadn't checked the IP's other edits. Let me know if you need a block or anything like that. Cheers. :) --Fang Aili ^talk 20:20, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Cancer deaths

Here is the CfD link: Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 August 9#Category:Facial cancer deaths Glad you brought this up. --Chris Griswold 00:50, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

re: My preferences

I'm not sure what would be causing that. I have seen issues with link formatting (underlines come back) that if I refresh the page, it returns to normal. Trying clearing your browser cache and reloading the page. If that doesn't work, it could be something with your cookies, try logging out and back in and make sure your browser cookies for this site are set to remain from session to session. If that doesn't work, try asking at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical). A broader audience may give you a solution. -- JLaTondre 18:43, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

• Hi Michael,
  I haven't noticed any spontaneous font-changing or date-resetting (yet!) but, as JLaTondre mentions, I am accustomed to logging out then back in to Wikipedia once in a while in order to restore my link-formatting preference. (I guess this is due to Wikipedia's cookies not being retained indefinitely, even if you set them to survive from session to session, or perhaps because they need resetting if/when a developer tweaks the Wikipedia software.) If I begin to notice these other changes, at least I know it's not a local problem – so thanks for the alert!

Something unconnected but coincidental with your message: I recently saw this film by chance rather than design and unexpectedly found it very moving. Have you heard of / seen it and if so counsel/led people such as its protagonists?  If you have and have the time to wax a little about it, I'd be fascinated to know something of your point of view. Best wishes, David Kernow 23:03, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for the comment. Sergio Leone is one of my favorite directors, also Once Upon a Time in the West is my favorite movie.Valoem ^talk 21:48, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Dante Fascell

Thanks for your note. Regrettably, there is no really formalized policy for the order of how categories should be listed, but many editors (me included) find alphabeitcal order to be the most sensible because it allows the reader to find the category more quickly. If you subscribe to that approach, the date of birth and death would come first. MiamiDolphins3 18:01, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

re: Soyer Article

If there is any worthwhile content in Alexis Benoît Soyer, edit Alexis Soyer and include that content. After that, or if there is no new content worth including, redirect Alexis Benoît Soyer to Alexis Soyer. Alexis Benoit Soyer (no caret over the I in Benoit) is a redirect to Alexis Benoît Soyer and it would need to be changed to Alexis Soyer. Does that make sense? There is a more detailed explanation at Wikipedia:Merging and moving pages that also includes instructions on how to tag an article for potential merging in case one doesn't have the time to do it or if discussion would be needed. -- JLaTondre 17:32, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Close, but not quite. :-) The redirect should replace the content (see [1]). Also, Alexis Benoit Soyer had to be fixed as it became as double redirect when its target was redirected (see [2]). But that was a good attempt for your first time. I also tagged the redirects with the appropriate category. -- JLaTondre 00:02, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Grave external links

Hi, I noticed that you add a lot of external links to findagrave.com. Is it discussed anywhere whether these links are appropriate? I was wondering because it's common for people to try to use Wikipedia to promote websites, which is bad as explained by Wikipedia:External links. I'm not accusing you of anything; I'm just interested in more information. Thank you, Wmahan. 19:52, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Spammed links

I have no idea why you got the warning. It's the standard text that gets displayed if you try to save a revision of a page which contains text on the Spam blacklist; this is mostly strings of domain names that get used for spamming us. If "spamsite.com" is on there, you can't save any page including an external link to a spamsite.com page, which is a very handy feature.

However... that domain didn't seem to be on the list when I looked, so I honestly don't know why the warning was coming up. Very odd. Still, it's working now... Shimgray | talk | 14:17, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Bob Marley vandalism

I am not the right person to ask for a {semi-protect}. I am not an Admin either. Perhaps try WP:ANI... that's the Admin noticeboard. Admins check there regularly for new incidents and can(maybe?) provide you with some more info regarding: "how much is too much" and when is semi-protect justifyable. Right now the page is certainly busy(classes are in and school kids get bored)...but I don't think it's being attacked enough to warrant protection. But, as I said, I'm not an Admin so I can't make that call. Good luck Anger22 13:30, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

re: Help!

The "+" should expand to show any categories under the subcategory. It allows you to easily see the grandparents of the current category without having to go to each subcategory's page. Do you have a specific example? They are working for me. It's possible it was just a server load issue. Thanks. -- JLaTondre 13:12, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Category:Seppuku is a subcategory to Category:Suicides by sharp instrument. It is already shown there. If you click on its name, that will take you to its page. The "+" next to its name would show you any subcategories underneath it, but Seppuku has none so there is nothing to list (on mine, it changes from "loading" to "no subcategories" after a little bit). Check out Category:Suicides by methods (the parent to by sharp) and click the "+" next to Category:Suicides by sharp instrument, it should show Category:Seppuku underneath. -- JLaTondre 13:37, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

What web browser do you use? Do you by chance have javascript disabled? -- JLaTondre 16:50, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Since you don't know, the odds are that it isn't (by default it would be enabled). It works here for me on IE. I'm not sure what else to recommend other than seeing if someone else has reported the same thing at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical). -- JLaTondre 17:23, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

re: Orson Welles

If you are using Firefox with the Google toolbar, make sure both are upgraded to the latest version. There was a bug with the toolbar that would cause truncation of large pages during editing. It can potentially also happen if something went wrong during the submit. -- JLaTondre 20:01, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

There are also some older browsers that can mess up large pages. What browser are you using? -- kenb215 20:12, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

re: Jill Gascoine/Gascoigne Articles

It looks like she is known by both names. I'm not sure what one is the most prevalent though my first inclination is to go with what IMDB has. I don't have time at the moment, but I'll do some research latter and merge them appropriately. Thanks. -- JLaTondre 15:05, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. -- JLaTondre 01:12, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

SP Malatesta

Oh sorry, maybe your source was deleted by a missed paste-and-copy from a location to another. Put it back if you want. My source was mainly Rendina and a few Italian sites.--Attilios 23:28, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

As for birth, I've found different dates. Don't know if yours is more certain. By the way, maybe your help is needed for other House of Malatesta articles I've written yesterday. You can find the at Category:Malatesta, I'm not English motherlanguage so I'm afraid some intervention is always needed. Ciao! Attilios 14:17, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

re: William Patterson

The standard way to handle it would be to move the William Patterson (U.S. politician) to a new name, say William Patterson (birth year - death year) and then turn the resultant redirect into a disambig page. If turned into a disambig, it would actually be more than two as each of the ones with middle initials should be included also. However, based on The Political Graveyard alone, there really isn't much information to indicate whether any of these William Patterson's (including the one currently with an article) are notable to include. If you can find other sources, it might make it worthwhile creating stubs for them. Regards. -- JLaTondre 01:08, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

re: Walter J. Turner

I always find those calls hard. I hate to reject information which might be valid, but I don't want to allow information which might not be. The tone of the additions seems favorable to the person, but not necessarily biased. Given that the edits wrecked the formatting, I'd consider reverting with a summery of "rv - broken formatting & unsourced editions" and then add a note to the article and contributor's talk pages asking them to consider re-editing in accordance with the manual of style and to cite verifiable sources (I'd include those three links). Another option is to clean-up the formatting and then either tag the additions with the {{fact}} template or the whole article with the {{unreferenced}}. -- JLaTondre 23:47, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure how I feel about it...

I'm not sure how I feel about limiting edits to registered users. I'd have to say that, for now, no. The current system seems to work. But I am a big fan of continuing dialouge about policy. To me, the old academic addage of "keeping the conversation going" is the most important thing that can be done. Cheers. youngamerican (ahoy hoy) 18:11, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Dr. Edward A. Wilson

You have asked about the death of Dr. Edward A. Wilson, the Antarctic explorer and hero. You are welcome to restore the category of 'accidental death' if you like.

Definitions of 'accident', both in the lay world and in law, tend to require an element of chance or happenstance in the event under discussion; but the death rate in Robert Scott's Polar Party was 100%. This is a sensitive subject, because accusations (unfair in my view) have been made against Captain Scott due to the deaths of all of the members of the Polar Party. The explorers starved and froze to death due to exposure to extreme Ross Ice Shelf conditions with which they were simply not equipped to deal; my argument is (a)it was no one's fault, but (b) there was nothing accidental about the outcome. As you can see this is an issue about which people of good will can differ.

Your user page shows you have worked more with Wikipedia than I have. What procedures would you see (if any) as advisable if someone should insert a false or misleading categorization into an article? (As noted above, I can see why this particular categorization could be seen as valid and objective.) Bigturtle 19:25, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

re: Roger Altounyan article

I merged them. Feel free to tweak. -- JLaTondre 23:59, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Re Winfield Scott

Hi, I don't know where that date came from. I was only interested in his involvement in Tweedle Dee. Didn't even notice that the date has to be wrong. I did try to find some more information to round out the article but wasn't successful. Sorry! Mattisse(talk) 00:11, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Great find on Winfield Scott

Hi! Great if you can find more. I'm really interested in songwriters -- and they are usually barely mentioned. I would like to see them get more credit. I put your reference in the Tweedle Dee article. Thanks! Mattisse(talk) 09:08, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes! Also A&R/producer people like Ralph Bass who were tremendously influencial in forming the directon of music from the 1940s on, but in the background and didn't even have and article! I'm trying to put one together. I added Winfield Scott to the Otis Blackwell page to give him another link. Mattisse(talk) 14:42, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Anthony Boucher

Hi! I had to look through http://www.kingkong.demon.co.uk/ngcoba/wh.htm to understand what you were getting at. :-) But I think in this case the manual of style has to trump any other arguments; for consistency with the rest of Wikipedia, we should show his entire birth name in bold. And (this is my personal opinion) is looks a bit strange with just half his name in bold. -- Jim Douglas ^(talk) _(contribs) 00:33, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Subcategories

To be honest, I'm not sure what to tell you. I don't have the same problem, and I haven't heard of anybody else having it, either. Can you describe it a bit more thoroughly so I can try to help figure out what the issue might be? Bearcat 23:20, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Okay, that helps. The plus sign is javascript, so you may need to upgrade the java engine in your browser. (It works for me, though, so I'm not sure there's anything that the technical team can fix, as such. But I'll bring it to their attention anyway, just in case.) But just so you know, you can also click on the category name itself; while the plus sign gives you a list of what the given category's subcategories are, clicking on the name will actually bring you to the category's own separate page. Just a slightly different way of accomplishing the same thing. Bearcat 23:55, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, technology's always fun...glad we got it figured out. Bearcat 00:38, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Categories

As I understand it, one of the main issues around category size is that a category isn't like an article, where there's a specific file stored on the server that can be called up when needed — the server has to generate the category page each time, by running a script to locate everything that's filed in the category and then sort it all alphabetically. So a large category puts a bigger load on the server processors than a smaller one does, and Wikipedia takes a bigger performance hit that way. Granted that in human time the difference isn't really noticeable in any individual case, but in processor time it's significant and we'd notice the lag a lot more easily if all the categories had hundreds upon thousands of entries.

Some people have proposed a change to "dynamic" category creation, where we'd just use the most general categories and then the more specific ones would be generated by looking for the set intersections (that is, if you wanted to see English writers, the server would look for and give you anybody who was filed in both the Writers and English people categories), but in terms of processor time that's even harder to justify at this point. At any rate, there's already a separate List of English writers article, so at the present time we don't need to make categories simultaneously function as one-stop lists.

A truly effective data sorting system that satisfies everybody's needs and wishes: the Holy Grail of Wikipedia. (*silly grin*) Bearcat 20:02, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Doing something about the ridiculous date autoformatting/linking mess

Dear MIchael—you may be interested in putting your name to, or at least commenting on this new push to get the developers to create a parallel syntax that separates autoformatting and linking functions. IMV, it would go a long way towards fixing the untidy blueing of trivial chronological items, and would probably calm the nastiness between the anti- and pro-linking factions in the project. The proposal is to retain the existing function, to reduce the risk of objection from pro-linkers. Tony 15:04, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

re: Thomas Mayhew

I moved it to Thomas Mayhew (governor) (he's identified as a governor in the article, I'm hoping that's correct) and deleted the old title as it's incorrect. I fixed all the links. There were actually two Thomas Mayhew articles so I also moved Thomas Mayhew to Thomas Mayhew (cabinetmaker) and made Thomas Mayhew a disambig page. I think I fixed all the links there as well. If you think I missed something, let me know or feel free to correct it yourself. If you have questions on any of that or think something should be changed, please let me know. Thanks. -- JLaTondre 03:39, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

re: Spam list?

That's the m:SpamBlacklist extension. The list of blocked domains is at m:Spam blacklist. If you think the page you are trying to add is legit, the talk page for m:Spam blacklist has a section for adding domains to be removed. You can at least ask there. I had it block an ibm.com site once. They did fix that one. Hope that helps. -- JLaTondre 14:12, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, as always. I'll give it a shot. I hope you have a safe, happy and healthy holiday. -- Michael David 14:16, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

You too! -- JLaTondre 14:19, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Thomas Green

Hello,

I am by no means an expert on the Civil War, but as regards Green's Birth Date & Place of Birth, should we not defer to his gravestone as the authority?

Well, typos can occur in marble as well as on paper. Interestingly, that find a grave website uses the January date on the same page as the photo that indicates June. Since there are disagreements between well-known secondary sources, it is worth reporting. You will notice that I gave the gravestone precedence over the alternatives. Hal Jespersen 23:30, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Not sure

I did give a final warning and he/she stopped for now. Keep your eye on it and report it if you remain concerned. --Kukini 01:14, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Any time. Thanks for the vigilance. --Kukini 01:28, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Categorization

There is not, at present, any policy that duplicate categorization of that type is permitted. Nor is there any evidence, at present, any evidence that it's needed or wanted by anything more than a few people who vastly overestimate the research value of having an undifferentiated master list of writers, with no context given to their nationality, their cultural context or their literary genre, to scan through. That's simply a pointless thing for Wikipedia to have; it serves no useful purpose. You can put them back in the parent category all you want, but until such time as a policy has explicitly been implemented in favour of duplicate categorization, I'm not going to stop removing duplicately-filed articles from the parent...which would leave us in an unresolvable tug-of-war. I would suggest that until such time as a policy has explicitly been implemented permitting duplicate categorization, we have to respect the policy as it stands; any ambiguity that currently exists results from people specifically pushing against the existing policy, not from any inherent ambiguity in the policy itself. Bearcat 22:51, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Categorization and subcategories spells out the specific circumstances where duplicate categorization is allowable; the situation at hand here fits none of them. Bearcat 23:22, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

If you'd like to initiate a formal policy discussion on the matter, go right ahead. But we can't simply ignore policy as it stands just because two or three people agreed on WikiEN that the change they personally favour should be made. Bearcat 23:27, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

For one, there just isn't any context where a researcher of any description would ever need to see an undifferentiated list of every person who ever wrote a book. There isn't any research value to be had in a single list that simultaneously includes a 21st-century Canadian novelist, a 15th-century Persian ghazal poet and a 19th-century British writer of ornithology guides. One might need a list of Canadian novelists, or a list of British ornithologists, or a list of ghazal poets, but there's no research value in having a list that includes all three, because there's no research topic on the planet to which all three could simultaneously be relevant. Literary scholars research a specific genre, a specific national literature, a specific era in literary history. No literary scholar on the planet is ever going to write any thesis for which he or she needs to access Margaret Atwood, Hafez, William Swainson, Alikhan Bokeikhanov, Juan Gossaín and Bobojon Ghafurov from within a single unified list, because useful research topics that would simultaneously cover all of those writers and their vastly differing cultural, genre and historical contexts simply do not exist.

For two, even if you're able to build a consensus that parent-subcat doublefiling is warranted, it needs to be consistent — until the Category:Writers category actually does include virtually everybody who ever wrote a book, it just makes us look sloppy to have only a small set of writers double-filed while a vastly larger set of writers isn't double-filed. So there would need to be a systematic project to add the duplicate parent category to every writer that's already on Wikipedia, or else we just look badly organized and thereby reduce our credibility as a research tool.

And finally, as I said before...if you'd like to initiate a formal policy discussion about it, then go right ahead. But until that has actually taken place, we have to respect policy as it stands. Bearcat 23:52, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and also, categories aren't meant to serve as lists. Lists are meant to serve as lists. If you want a one-stop list of all writers, why does it need to be created through the category system? Why can't you use or create or add to List of writers instead? Bearcat 00:05, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Joan Finney Photo

I just read your comments on Talk:Joan Finney, and I was wondering if that photo is acceptable for use in the article. If it is compliant with applicable Wikipedia policies and guidelines, could you add the photo to the actual article? --TommyBoy 01:42, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Per your suggestion, I have contacted User:JLaTondre regarding my question. --TommyBoy 07:43, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

User:JLaTondre responded to my question. Unfortunately, he is unable to provide assistance. However, he did post a rather detailed note regarding Wikipedia's policies and procedures for uploading images to my UserTalk page. --TommyBoy 21:26, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

If the photo is cleared for use on Wikipedia, do you think you can upload it, based upon the instructions that User:JLaTondre provided to me. If not, we will need to seek assistance from another user, as I am not well-versed in the highly-technical aspects of editing Wikipedia, such as uploading photos. --TommyBoy 23:40, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

I was wondering if the person who uploaded the photo to Find-A-Grave has contacted you regarding the photo's copyright status. --TommyBoy 00:27, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

re: Pietro Bernini talk page

You can use the "edit this page" button at the top instead of the "+". The "+" is a shortcut for adding a new section. The "edit this page" will edit the whole page just like on the article page. -- JLaTondre 12:40, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

No problem. That's weird that it would be red. It shouldn't be & I cannot think of what would cause that. -- JLaTondre 13:36, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

re default sort

This one I came across not to long ago. Defaultsort can be entered to replace having the person's name in each of the categories ie last name first, first name last. This entry will sort each the categories and stubs in the article. I have found that if the stub is entered ahead of the categories or entered on the next line right after Defaultsort it does not work. You have to move the stub below the category and also have a couple of lines between Defaultsort for it to work. Try it out it works well. I hope I explained it to your satisfaction. Bluetooth954 16:46, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Nostalgia indeed...

Good to hear from you again Michael. Indeed things are well with me, likewise with you, I hope. Having a quick glance at your talk page and contributions, you certainly have come a long way since last year. Congratulations! I'm glad I made you feel welcome.

Thanks for the kind words and thanks for dropping by to say hi. - Akamad 12:47, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

re: Frances Burney article

I'm able to edit it using the "edit this page" button so I'm not what is causing the problem you're having. However, you can add the Edit Top script to your monobook.js (instructions provided at that page). It will create an additional link called "edit top" at the top left of all article pages. It allows you to just edit the first section of an article. I have it installed and use it frequently. Let me know if you have any questions with it. -- JLaTondre 13:52, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Franz Kafka

No problem Exiledone 11:05, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Barbara Ferris

Past tense; I suppose because her career is mostly in the past, but it can be fixed. Best wishes IXIA 22:12, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Well done

You actually seem to be someone who makes constructive edits to articles. There are a depressing number of people around who just like go around removing tiny publicity photos or otherwise indulging the frustrated policeman inside them. 88888 13:27, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Application to join unblock list

Michael,

There is an application in your name to join the unblock list. Could you please advise that it is you and we can consider your application?

Regards

Yes, it is me & I would very much like to join the list.

Keith Old Capitalistroadster 12:45, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Further to the above, your address is shown as michaeldavid86 @ comcast . net. (spaces added to confuse spammers. Could you please confirm this e-mail.

Yes, this is my email address.

Capitalistroadster 12:47, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

(I am going to post this on your Talk Page as well - just to be sure.)

Categories

Maybe the "what links here" option in the toolbox to the left can be useful in looking for people with cancer. See this. 4.250.168.34 05:50, 13 April 2007 (UTC) User talk:WAS 4.250

Categories

If you're not satisfied with the page I provided the last time you asked me the same question, that's not really my problem, as I don't particularly have a responsibility to be an apologist for Wikipedia policy. And I'm genuinely curious as to why you suddenly felt the need to raise the issue again out of the blue, as I see no evidence that you and I have been anywhere near the same pages as each other in weeks. Bearcat 06:17, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Sorry to barge in here. I also have a problem lately, correcting a very broad recategorization Bearcat undertook in Canadian films, which doesn't follow the categorization logic of other countries' films, plus it disregards our film specific categorization guidelines. Without letting WP Films know, he emptied category Canadian films in favor of genres cross categories. There is no policy about it and the term is being misused. Wikipedia:Categorization and subcategories is a guideline and reasonable exceptions from the rule are given. Section "Reasons for duplication" gives some very good reasons why doubling is preferable in some cases. In our case, the reason is that many users look in country-film categories as an alphabetical listing of the countrie's films and we even link to them as indexes from many lists and navigations. There is also another guideline Wikipedia:Overcategorization and if more categorizers follow his example in films we will soon face a huge overcategorization problem. Hoverfish Talk 07:56, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Thank you Michael. I know I am not alone in this, but it's better to discuss with more editors, as it is a very diverse issue in applications and side effects. For this reason I started Wikipedia:WikiProject Films/Categorization and keep coordinating it as it picks momentum. We have also heard from the people working on the dynamic category technology, and although we can't go by a not-yet-applied system, a lot of what was said has been very helpul to our current problems. Bearcat is correct to want a usability-oriented categorization system. The only problem with doing it as-things-are, is that usability is also very diverse, as many needs have to be met, and overcategorization in films is already a huge problem. For geographical, biological or military issues categrization is straightforward and relatively easily arranged in an orderly and usable system. Books are also easier to categorize than films and we have good librarians helping us. Films are one of the most complicated issues I know, as they combine many high importance categorizing factors. I am not familiar with the WikiEN-L Mailing List. If you can drop me a link I would like to be informed and participate. Hoverfish Talk 14:56, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Since you and I haven't gotten into any debates about this lately, I'm really at a loss as to exactly what "behaviour" of mine you're presuming to criticize. And since I'm not particularly interested in being impolite, I won't actually articulate the response I initially had to your insinuation that I'm either an unclear thinker, which I'm emphatically not, or some kind of "rogue" admin who isn't established enough around Wikipedia to have my opinions taken seriously, when in fact I'm quite possibly one of the longest-serving administrators around Wikipedia at this point. Would you mind terribly explaining why you view my opinion as so muddled and dismissable? Bearcat 04:20, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Regarding edits to Hans Hansen

Thank you for contributing to Wikipedia, Michael David! However, your edit here was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to remove spam from Wikipedia. If you were trying to insert a good link, please accept my creator's apologies, but note that the link you added, matching rule artfacts\.net, is on my list of links to remove and probably shouldn't be included in Wikipedia. Please read Wikipedia's external links policy for more information. If the link was to an image, please read Wikipedia's image tutorial on how to use a more appropriate method to insert the image into an article. If your link was intended to promote a site you own, are affiliated with, or will make money from inclusion in Wikipedia, please note that inserting spam into Wikipedia is against policy. For more information about me, see my FAQ page. Thanks! Shadowbot 12:56, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Resolved. Lupo 21:45, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Godfrey Winn

• thanks for telling me that a heart attack is a type of heart disease. anyway, regarding categorisation, i disagree: since Category:Deaths by myocardial infarction is already nested inside Category:Deaths from cardiovascular disease, having the vaguer one (the latter) as well as the more specific seems to be needless duplication. tomasz. 12:06, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Classification

I've just responded to you post on the en listserv, and in more detail on the Librarians page here. The pioneering medical librarian was a physician, John Shaw Billings (nobody wrote an article on him yet, oddly. I do not think we have any medical librarians here--I may be the closest (biological sciences bibliographer at Princeton). Among the things he did was develop the first classification for medical literature. Maintaining a classification is an unbelievably difficult project, I've given some extremely sanguine estimates on that page. Developing one to cover he whole span of human affairs, or adapting an existing one, is a life's work at least.

What might be possible , and would fit the way people here like to work, is improving the categories piecemeal. I've been working on and off or a year to get good categories for journals. You might want to try diseases, or some part of medicine. But the way it works here is, as you noticed, one of the messiest parts of the system, as is any add-on function to a large data base. You might study the archives of WP:CFD and hang around there , to see what's involved. I'm there from time to time, but I'm not one of the regulars. DGG 01:47, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for that priceless piece of advise. I'll keep it at hand for those times when one needs it. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 03:32, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

You're very welcome, my friend. I was glad I could help.

Be healthy,

Michael David 11:23, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

re: Edit Count

There are actually several tools. Take a look at Wikipedia:WikiProject edit counters. I tried this one. It took some time, but worked for me. I didn't try the others. -- JLaTondre 00:17, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

You too. -- JLaTondre 00:38, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Debate camp

Please check out Wikipedia:Debate camp. Thank you very much. WAS 4.250 17:26, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

My response is on my talk page. My future responses will also almost always be on whatever page your message is on (eg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Debate_camp or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:WAS_4.250 ). WAS 4.250 14:34, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Belated hello

Hi Michael - I just saw your note on my SIMONATL talk page and wanted to thank you for your kind words. I've learned a great deal more about Theodore Roosevelt in the last couple years, have visted the Badlands where he went out to ranch and recover from the deaths of his mother and wife and attended two symposia on him at Dickinson State University. I've also joined the Theodore Roosevelt Association (TRA) where I've had the privilege of getting to know some of his descendants. I'll be traveling to the Annual Meeting of the TRA in a couple weeks in Boston, MA. Also, I contribute a lot to a Yahoo Club on TR called http://clubs.yahoo.com/tr-m and there's a lot of good info and some great photos and links there as well. Take care, SimonATL - SimonATL 03:02, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

apologies offered......

Hi Marc,

I wanted to drop you a note offering apologies if my comments here distracted from the intended purpose of the thread - re-reading them, I think I may have misread the atmosphere at the forum, and what was intended as a light hearted peace keeping post might come across as more inane nonsense - I've been banned from wikback for a week as a result, which I contend is somewhat of an overreaction, but I hope to be allowed to return in due course, and wanted to make sure everything was good between us - cheers, Privatemusings (talk) 05:59, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

RE: Discussion camp

You are welcome - sad it didn't become active, it sounded a good idea. weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 22:33, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Re: Will Holt

Hi, you can edit the talkpage by clicking the "edit this page" button at the top, to the right of the "format" button. (No "edit this section" because there's not much on the talkpage & no sections). You'll see {{WPBiography|class=Stub|priority=|a&e-work-group=yes|living=yes|listas=Holt, Will}}. Remove the bit that says |living=yes. That should do it. You'll also need to remove Category:Living people from the bottom of the article page, and add Category:1929 births and Category:1989 deaths. Hope this helps, --BelovedFreak 18:11, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm... I can't imagine why this is. Have you changed your preferences at all? Although, I can't see anything in my preferences that would have that effect. I suggest you post a message at the help desk. Queries there usually get a quick response and someone there may have more technical know-how than me. In the meantime, I'll edit the article and talkpage for you.--BelovedFreak 21:13, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Re: Rolla Carpenter

Michael,

Thanks for the note, and for finding the exact birth date. That one had eluded me in research for my site. Kevin Forsyth (talk) 12:13, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

An old (2006) comment of yours on Jung:talk page

I hope you don't mind my revisiting this, because I've been disturbed by the AA/Jung story for some time but found your comment confusing. You say that it is a part of Jungian literature and seem to have no problem with that. But you also criticize the person who wrote the section for supporting a version incompatible with what is known about Jung--specifically, the likelihood that he would say he could not help someone.

I think the traditional version of the story, as found in AA and reproduced unquestioningly in many Jung sources, has been repeated fairly accurately in the Wiki article. The inconsistencies, and they are very real, are in the original story. It does not speak well for Jung researchers that they have adopted such an odd claim about Jung with no evidence at all except for Jung's apparent agreement (I have some doubts about the authorship of that letter Jung sent to Bill Wilson--I'm sure it reflects Jung's own thoughts to some extent but my guess is that his secretary helped a bit with the composition of it) with a letter about it, very late in his life.

So I am curious as to how you understand what happened. By the way, I don't contribute anything to Wiki on this topic as I have done some original research (I wrote it up as a web article, Stellar Fire, a few years ago) and it would be too hard for me to stick to Wiki-acceptable sources. I am uncomfortable with the section as written but will have to leave it be.Rose bartram (talk) 13:00, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

I’m not exactly certain where your confusion is, Rose. Carl Jung had real problems with the growing popularity of the Alcoholics Anonymous movement. He was a consummate professional, and had no doubts about his competency as a therapist. He did, however, have real problems with a “faith-based”, guilt-based, blame-the-patient approach to the treatment of a disease. -- Michael David (talk) 14:07, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Stover at Yale

Please come help me build SAY. Foil the deletionists. TCO (talk) 19:35, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

re: Changing Headings

I'm doing well. Hope you are also. By "change the main heading title", do you mean the page name? If so, you would use the Move button at the top of the page and it will allow you to enter a new name for it. If I misunderstood your question, please let me know. -- JLaTondre (talk) 01:00, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

No problem. Glad to help. -- JLaTondre (talk) 16:21, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Ziaur Rahman

I had to revert your edit here, as it did big damage to the article. Debresser (talk) 21:27, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Your note

No idea. I would attempt a copy and paste. LilHelpa (talk) 23:49, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Old comment on Jung: Talk

In 2006 you left a message about the "spirituality" section, another editor encouraged you to make whatever changes you felt were needed in that section, and as far a I can tell you never did. I'm still intrigued by your observation that it would have been uncharacteristic of Jung to say he could not help a patient. I'm inclined to agree, although I think Jung certainly was capable of becoming tired of, or bored with, a patient and sending him/her elsewhere. The story has Jung saying a lot more than that.

But you also said that the "Rowland" story was a part of Jungian literature, implying (I think) that there was a more accurate version of it somewhere in the Jungian (as opposed to AA) literature. I always had the impression that Jungian sources just slavishly repeated the AA version in spite of its improbable features. Have I missed something? The references to an unnamed alcoholic Oxford Group member( from 1939 and 1941, in The Symbolic Life) do sound like they could be "Rowland" and if so the story is a bit different. But those remarks do not appear in any published Jungian secondary source. No biographer or other writer has attempted to use them to correct the story, or even connected that person with Rowland H. So what part of the Jungian literature were you thinking of, in the ense of an independent source?Rose bartram (talk) 23:22, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

So sorry, I forgot that I had tried to clear up my confusion once before and the attempt did not work. I don't mean to nag, just wondering where the specific references are (in the Jungian literature) which correct the story. It would be helpful to be able to point tho them.Rose bartram (talk) 23:38, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Rose, I don't know who you are, and your User & Talk Pages tell me nothing about you. What, exactly, is your main interest in all of this? -- Michael David (talk)

Sándor Ferenczi

Hi Mr. David - I came across the page on Sándor Ferenczi. Would you be interested in making some effort to improve it with me? (i.e. inline citations, more detail). It looks like your background is in psychology, maybe you could point out some sources to me anyway. Thanks, TheFireTones 00:52, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I would very much like to help you with the Ferenczi article as he is a favorite of mine. However, my schedule is such these days that I could not devote the time I would wish to put in on it. Perhaps at a later time. My apologies. -- Michael David (talk) 16:22, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Sure thing, maybe at a later date. TheFireTones 22:41, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Peto Yavorov

Sorry if I'm bothering you and this is probably a little late but you were asking about Yavorov's date of birth and it's January 1st, 1878. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hellonx (talk • contribs) 18:29, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

In Wikipedia we use 1 January 1978 or January 1, 1978. No "1st". See Wikipedia:Mos#Dates. Debresser (talk) 23:34, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Your request for a fix

Done. Feel free to ask any time.

BTW, the way to sign your comments on talkpages is by simply adding ~~~~ at the end. That works perfect, try it. Debresser (talk) 23:31, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

John Thompson

In December 2006, you added some relevant biographical to the article about John Thompson (poet). That material was deleted some time ago. I would like to add it back in but you gave no references. Would you kindly do so? There is now a refimprove tag on the page.Verne Equinox (talk) 06:29, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the link. Considering the amount of scholarship on that site (youngpoets), it's a shame there is no easy way to search it.Verne Equinox (talk) 13:26, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

List of Presidential Medal of Freedom recipients

		The Epic Barnstar
		For a commitment to improve history-related articles, particularly List of Presidential Medal of Freedom recipients. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 23:05, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Joseph Payne Brennan

Mr. David: Thanks for the corrections you initiated in the talk/contributions information, however if you look at the page you will notice that where you trailed off almost half of the entire content of the page is missing. Would you mind correcting this, please. Many thanks for your consideration in this matter and all professional courtesies. Best regards, Brennanaliac. KDS —Preceding unsigned comment added by Brennanaliac (talk • contribs) 18:04, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm very sorry about this. I tried to undo my screw-up, but it didn't seem to work. Please feel free to correct my error if you can. -- Michael David (talk) 18:36, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Colin Davidson

Hi Michael, In response to my addition and your subsequent deletion of my Grandfather, Colin Davidson as a Medal of Freedom recipient, I do have supporting evidence to substantiate his award. I hold a copy of the entry into the Commonwealth Gazette No: 61 April 15th 1948 p1899 Postion 15, (there are a total of 23 MoF recipients listed in this edition of the Gazette), A copy of a Memorandum from the Australian Army Military Board dated 4 August 1948, to Capt CB Davidson advising him of the award and his unrestricted wearing of the medal. I also have a copy of the typewritten citation which describes the reason/s for his nomination to be awarded the medal. ( As my Grandfather is deceased, my uncle now holds the original Memo, citation copy and actual Medal of Freedom, Red ribbon, white vertical stripes, Liberty bell on reverse and liberty? head on front). As well as this there is the recognition on the Australian War Memorial website of his MoF award. You can research and pay for an extract from the Commonwealth Gazette if you wish or there may be some record in the US presidential archives you can access.

As we wish to have him recognised on the webpage, I would advise that I will be re-entering him on the webpage in coming days, however, I would like to hear from you in regard to this, prior to resubmitting his details.Donaz01 (talk) 05:26, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

To User:Donaz01 - I have no reason to doubt your statement about your grandfather's Medal of Freedom. I removed Colin Davidson's name from the Medal List after an extensive Google search, and inquiries to the New York Public Library's Research service, found no references to the Medal's award to him. If you do re-enter his name, please place some specific data as a reference at the bottom of the Medal List's Page. Or, better still, create a new Article Page for Mr. Davidson and place the Medal of Freedom data there plus its references. Thank you for writing to me about this. -- Michael David (talk) 13:38, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Hi Michael, Thank you for your response, I have setup a wiki page for Colin Davidson and am currently adding and updating some biographical info on him, so once I get the full gist of this wiki setup I will add scans of the letters, extracts etc. I will then add him to the list, so there will be adequate back-up information to support the entry. My family is getting on in years now, so I am trying to capture some history before it is no longer available, I am sure you understand. Donaz01 (talk) 06:16, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Sounds good, Donaz. I look forward to reading the article about your grandfather. And, yes, I do understand how family histories can fade if they are not written down. Nice work. -- Michael David (talk) 13:27, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Keith D

Hey Michael David, he does it all the time, with no reference to the author, or gets a buddy of his to do it to avoid the 3 revert rule 7 make it look as if YOU are the vandal, even on your own page! Amhunt84 (talk) 23:33, 2 February 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Amhunt84 (talk • contribs)

Re:Tomas Eloy Martinez article

Clarín newspaper, probably Argentina's most important one, only talks about a "cancer": "Tomás Eloy Martínez: entre la crónica y la invención de la historia"]. It took me a while to find an original source of the brain tumor in Spanish: "Dolor por la muerte de Tomás Eloy Martínez". I don't know why. I'm fixing the reference and removing the lungs (I mean, the word). Thanks for the note!

Good wiking, Mariano(t/c) 08:00, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Thank you

Hello Michael David. Thank you for your email. I will certainly look for the Beethoven piece that you brought to my attention. Your mention of it was interesting to me. I grew up playing the piano. I never practiced enough to be anything more than a middling player. At one point I had the piano score for all nine of his symphonies. I am pretty sure that it was the Liszt versions. The only one that I was proficient enough to play all four movements of was the 6th!!. This was all a long time ago but I sure appreciate both your note and the memories that have been flooding back since I read it. Thanks again. Cheers and happy editing here at WikiP. MarnetteD | Talk 02:35, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Re:José Rivera

Hello Michael David, thank you for your message. Yes, it would a nightmare to reference every Birth and Death. One of the few instances where I would reference a DoB or DoD is when I notice an edit war brewing and then I'll post a reliable verifiable source. But, I think that in the six years that I have been in Wikipedia, I have only done that once. Hey, on the other hand I noticed from the message above that I am not the only one that still enjoys classical music. Take care. Tony the Marine (talk) 08:41, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Re: Maria Kaczynska DoB

Reply is here: User_talk:Visor#Maria_Kaczynska_DoB. Greets. Visor (talk) 16:06, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

RE: Medal of Freedom List

Hi Michael, Yes I'm rearranging everything to be by year. I do those changes mainly by year. When people come to navigate, and search or read those List, they don't always know the name they are looking for. For Example, if you are looking at Nobel Peace Prize winner, you don't necessarily know what you are looking for. You sometimes just want to look at say year 2010 or 1985 and know who received it or got the award. And sometimes it's two people receiving the award at same year. (that is even the case with some Medal of Freedom List. Abdowiki (talk)

Thank you, I always try to help, WIKI style :D Abdowiki (talk)