Talk:Chauncey Archiquette

Did you know nomination

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• ... that Chauncey Archiquette was Jim Thorpe's idol?

• Source: Path Lit by Lightning: The Life of Jim Thorpe (Thorpe said "[Archiquette] was my football idol and in our scrub games with the homemade football I always tried to emulate him") / Carlisle Vs. Army ("[Thorpe] was particularly taken with the team's star runner, an Indian boy named Chauncey Archiquette ... One day, Thorpe told himself, I'm going to be as tough as Chauncey ... [Thorpe, after watching practice] raced back and forth over the empty field, zigging here, zagging there, trying to emulate his idol.")

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Chesmac

Moved to mainspace by BeanieFan11 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 247 past nominations.

BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:56, 19 September 2024 (UTC).

• @BeanieFan11: Although Thorpe was a highly accomplished and iconic athlete of his era, I'm not actually sure if most Americans today know who he is or at least recognize his name (speaking as a non-American). In addition, I don't know if Thorpe is a name that is known internationally. As such, the hook as currently written may not be broadly interesting enough to meet WP:DYKINT. Additional hook suggestions are probably needed here. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:04, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
  • I considered this when making the nomination, but Thorpe is one of the most famous athletes of all time. Books are written about him nearly every year and we still have articles from the past few months such as "Thorpe was and still is the greatest athlete in the history of sports" / "On this day in history, May 28, 1888, Jim Thorpe, 'greatest athlete in the world,' is born" – I would be very surprised if the vast majority of people don't recognize his name. I feel like it may lose some of its 'punch', but if really necessary, we could say something like ALT1 ... that Chauncey Archiquette was the idol of Jim Thorpe, regarded as one of the greatest athletes in history? BeanieFan11 (talk) 14:45, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

I'll probably have to cite WP:DYKHOOKSTYLE here: don't assume everyone worldwide is familiar with your subject. And for what it's worth, I made a bit of an informal survey about this on Discord, and the three editors who responded said they didn't know who Thorpe is. Note that my thoughts about the hook are independent of the survey; in fact, I made the survey because I wanted to know if American editors might find the hook interesting and to check my own thoughts. As for the nomination itself, the safest option here is probably to try a completely different angle. While ALT1 is arguably a better option, as you said, it loses some of the punch with the additional context. Thorpe is no Lionel Messi or Michael Jordan to warrant the angle, methinks. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:43, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

I'm rather stunned at the idea that Thorpe isn't well known enough. I don't really see any other good options with the article as well. Would changing the hook so that it does not mention Thorpe, but still has that aspect, work? – I.e. something like ALT2 ... that the "greatest athlete in the world" was inspired by Chauncey Archiquette? (I'd need to add the quote to the article, but Thorpe has widely been called that.) BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:54, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

I think that's a better hook, but I'm not sure if it will pass scrutiny. DYK usually wants quotes in quote hooks to be attributed whenever possible, but adding an attribution to the hook would probably weaken the article's punch. It might be a good idea to seek opinions from other editors who are experts on wordsmithing like RoySmith, Theleekycauldron, or Launchballer. In any case, I'd suggest dropping any hook that directly mentions Jim Thorpe per WP:DYKHOOKSTYLE and either having only ALT2 for consideration for now, or trying a different angle. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:01, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

I also have never heard of Jim Thorpe, although that may be because I know little about sports in general. I quite like ALT3: ... that tacklers "bounced off" Chauncey Archiquette "as if he were a brick wall"?.--Launchballer 15:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

That works. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:49, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

• Full review needed now that hook discussion has taken place. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:44, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

• Hi BeanieFan11. This article created on the 18 September (and promoted to GA since) is long enough, new enough, well-sourced, neutral, and copyvio free. The article is presentable. The QPQ has been done. I'll admit, I (non-American) was not familiar with Jim Thorpe before this DYK, so I prefer ALT3. However, I don't love ALT3, because it seems like similar things have been said about a lot of American footballers. Perhaps it is worth making people click through to see who Jim Thorpe is in order to have an interesting hook? All hooks are cited and I've verified the citations. Good to go. Best, Tenpop421 (talk) 21:32, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• I'm also not wild about ALT3, both on attribution and interestingness, but I wouldn't object to someone else promoting it. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 03:55, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Chauncey Archiquette/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: BeanieFan11 (talk · contribs) 14:48, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: WikiOriginal-9 (talk · contribs) 04:09, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

• Added some cats.
• "In 1896, Archiquette made his first varsity sports team" Link varsity?
  • Linked.
• "He was a member of Pop Warner's 9–2 football team" change to "head coach Pop Warner's"
  • Changed.
• "He graduated from Carlisle in 1899 and departed the school on March 6, 1899" What's that mean?
  • I'm assuming the source means he left the school on that date, but I cut the 'departed' part - see below.
• How did he play football at Carlisle in 1899 if he graduated in 1899 and departed in March? Was football in the spring?
  • I ... don't know. Football was in the fall still, although the eligibility rules were real fuzzy at the time (see the part there was no governing organization at the time, and thus no eligibility limits as there are in modern times) – if I remember right, I think there was a part of the ref two book cited that mentioned sometimes people who were not actively attending Indian schools were still able to play for the athletic teams because of how disorganized the eligibility enforcement was. Thoughts?
• "James Naismith, the founder of the sport, once cited Archiquette as one of his favorite guards." I don't think the source actually says that.
  • It says If Louis Weller was Naismith's archetypal offensive player, Archiquette was his defensive counterpart ... to Naismith they were as the sun and the moon, two basketball luminaries who dominated their spheres. 'How well I remember his superb guarding!' Naismith wrote. 'To me this player, named Archiquette, had embodied all the requirements for a perfect guard.' – maybe change it to 'James Naismith, the founder of the sport, once cited Archiquette as one of his favorite defensive players'? Thoughts?
    • Actually upon reading that, let's just leave it how it is. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 20:31, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
• "After leaving Haskell in 1905, he joined Green's Nebraska Indians, an all-star barnstorming team," Were they a football team or baseball? The prior sentences were about baseball.
  • Clarified baseball.
• "He also umpired some of Haskell's football games after he college playing career ended" Change he to his.
  • Changed.

I think that's all. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 12:13, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

• @WikiOriginal-9: BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:09, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
  • It all looks good now. Nice work! ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 20:31, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.