Talk:Ennead

No Ra

Please note, Ra was much later equated with Atum (for a period going under the title Atum-Ra). The Ennead were never associated with Ra originally. The Ennead never associated with Ra. Ennead means 9, when Ra and Atum became conflated, those who associated with Ra, as his co-journyers in his solar barque, were only 8, and were thus an Octad, not an Ennead. --Victim of signature fascism 22:23, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Carnal

What is the "great carnal power"? I don't see how this is carnal, ie related to the body or meat. Interlingua 04:56, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

It would appear that in this context, 'carnal' is an antonym of 'spiritual', i.e. 'temporal'. But OED calls this usage "archaic". Also, it is not clear how the number has temporal power. --Macrakis 14:04, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Refer to the Bible, where 'god' the creator, in fact Satan, makes flesh.

This refers to all flesh whether humanoid or animal as we are interchangeable with animals and birds.

Hence the English expressions, "I'll turn you inside out and make you eat yourself."

And "Nice 'bird' (young woman) tasty Geezer (man as an edible animal) which reflects the Great Sphinx aka Abu Hol, the Father of Terror at Giza.

Geezer is also an antiquated name for a gas water heater as with a personified Jupiter as the Jovian 'god'.

We are - literally - what we eat, hence sometimes a woman is referred to as a cow.

Therefore our real creator, Satan, is referred to as being Sick And Twisted - SAT.

SAT an and SAT on have the same implication. The anus being the Satanic black hole where the Sun does NOT shine.

This is all well known in common vulgar parlance and is part and parcel of the vulgar Vulgate Mass.

All this is precisely why there is a celibacy. (Fear / Terrified.)

It is also why terrorism exists. But this is very subtle.

You either understand that or you don't.

It depends on how well you understand common parlance sexual rhetoric which is vulgar.

Anon 178.116.241.108 (talk) 13:07, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Origin of "term" Ennead

Gods: (NtrNtrNtr) three vertical registers required in hieroglyphs

Unless someone knows different, it should be considered that the Ennead developed(Origin) with the origin of the Hieroglyphic writing, as three "registers" of hieroglyphs get one to 3 x 3, the Ennead. There is also the 'Gods of the 18 (name ?)', a double ennead. --......from the SonoranDesert of Arizona- ..Mmcannis 03:32, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

There has - always - been a second 'Ennead'.

The original Ennead, or Council of Nine has always had an equal and opposing Satanic counterpart. 9+9 = 18 the letters A & H a deliberate inference for anus.

See: Satanic Synagogues in Revelation 2:9 and references to red and black, living and dead as with all red and black games such as card packs, roulette and snooker.

Snooker come from 'snook' her. Have sex with. Snook is also a fish. See: Snooki as a hooker hooking a (fish) catch or Carpé Diem.

All part of common everyday vulgar sexual rhetoric.

Always, being a contraction of All ways also refers to all manner of sexual positions and to all the holes in the body which may be used for such a purpose.

'Normal', oral or anal it makes - NO - difference.

Another reason to understand that his is Satan's creation and god is just a 'smokescreen' used to fool us, as with an alias.

Anon 178.116.241.108 (talk) 13:19, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Typical usage of plural gods

An example of vertical registers of hieroglyphs shows the plural of "Gods" used 2-times. (from the ArizonaDeserts-on the New Year)- ...-Mmcannis 16:19, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Hieroglyphs from the Black Schist sarcophagus of Ankhnesneferibre. Example of Plural of "Gods", (column 2, and 4-from right).

Article title

Is "Ennead" really more common in English than "Pesedjet"? I note that the article on Ra uses pesedjet and not ennead. Would the possibility of a move of this article to "Pesedjet" upset anyone? --Bejnar (talk) 06:07, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

But Ennead is more specific than pesedjet. An article on the latter should explain the concept and list the various examples, this article should deal with the actual Ennead of Heliopolis and not with all the others. Str1977 ^(talk) 14:43, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

In the books that I've seen, Egyptologists often use "ennead" to mean any of the groups of nine gods that the Egyptians recognized; "pesedjet" is only an occasional synonym for this term. It's true that they never use "the Pesedjet" to refer to the Ennead of Heliopolis as they use "the Ennead." Nevertheless, "pesedjet" and "ennead" are synonymous, so I don't think that "pesedjet" should be used for the general term and "Ennead" for the specific one. If a split should be made, it should be between the generic "ennead" and the specific "Great Ennead" or "Ennead of Heliopolis", because those are the names which Egyptologists use to refer to the most important ennead. A. Parrot (talk) 20:24, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes, "any of the groups of nine gods" would fit the term. But what other groups of nine are there and how notable are they?

I don't think that we should create a "pesedjet" article either but if that title should be used it would have to be for some general article, not one specific to Heliopolis. That would be like filing "Ramses II" under "Pharaoh".

The Ennead article is not simply about all Enneads as it could never encompass groupings of, say, seven or ten. However, such information is incidentally included in the background information (see section "terminology") - the same can be done for other pesedjets - however, they cannot be included under Ennead unless containing 9 members.

Str1977 ^(talk) 21:10, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

"Pesedjet" did mean "nine"; the Greek word "ennead", meaning "group of nine", is a direct translation of the Egyptian word. The term was sometimes used to refer to groups that contained other numbers of deities because of the symbolic significance of the number nine. Three signified plurality to the Egyptians, so three times three signified a "plural of plurals". Therefore "pesedjet" could refer to any great number. (Richard H. Wilkinson, Complete Gods and Goddesses of Ancient Egypt, p. 79; James P. Allen, Middle Egyptian, p. 144.) A. Parrot (talk) 23:06, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

It seems that "Pesedjet" should be its own article (taking much of the Terminology section with it), and that article should describe the various groupings of deities (Ennead, Ogdoad, et cætera). There should be plenty of information that can be entered into that new article, such as the most prominent groupings (and how those evolved over the dynasties). It also would provide a categorized reference of the Egyptian deities (cat. by their grouping) rather than only having the straight lists of deities which Wiki currently has (you can not see their associations with these "straight lists"). BTW, slightly annoying thing about Terminology section in this article is that it has a wiki link to "pesedjet" which only redirects right back to this article. — al-Shimoni (talk) 09:33, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

"Pesedjet" should not be a separate article because "pesedjet" and "ennead" are completely synonymous. One term is Egyptian and the other is its Greek translation. "Ennead" is the term more commonly used in scholarly sources, so the article should use that title. The question is whether the broader term "ennead" should be separated from the Ennead of Heliopolis—a specific grouping with specific members. I'm not even sure that they should be separate, though, because I believe there are some instances, like during the trial of Horus and Seth, where it seems that the Ennead of Heliopolis has been expanded to include all the gods in the pantheon. A. Parrot (talk) 19:11, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Yes although pesedjet=ennead=9 the Egyptians were not averse to adding or subtracting from the number of gods and still using the term - which implies that it became to mean something like 'company of gods' - for instance Horus is sometimes tagged on to the main Heliopolitan Ennead and there is something called the lesser Ennead which seems to include all sorts. I can find a ref for this I think but it is from memory.Apepch7 (talk) 23:06, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

"Greek Ἐννεάς, meaning the nine"

After my attempt to fix the start of this article got reverted, I thought that I'd try here. I found the article when the NY Times gave as a definition of 'ennead' as a group of nine Egyptian deities, and tried to find out why. I thought that this article might be the locus, and wanted to let people know that that the English word 'ennead' refers more broadly than this.

So, let me make ask some questions to those who have a closer interest in this article. Why is there a capital epsilon in the Greek word? The upper case - lower case distinction is later than the word; in ancient times Greek was written only in upper case. Second, where did the 'the' come from, in "the nine"? It's not in the Greek, which would require an eta. I'll grant that 'ennead' is not a common word, but it's one that I know as a common noun.

It's a reasonable guess that you've got people thinking that the Greek word refers primarily to this group of gods. It doesn't. (Check it out in Liddell Scott Jones.) If you don't like my fix, shouldn't you come up with another? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paul Asman (talk • contribs) 06:10, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

If the word is more commonly used in English to refer to something else, then yes, we should fix it. We shouldn't have an article on the word itself, because Wikipedia is not a dictionary. We should, however, cover all encyclopedic topics that that word can refer to, and should only place an article under the nonspecific title "Ennead" if it is clearly the best-known topic known by that name. If, then, "Ennead" is used to refer to Plotinus' work more often than to the group of gods, then the title "Ennead" should redirect to the article on that work, while the content of this article should be moved to a more specific title, like "Ennead (mythology)". The same is true if some other meaning is more common. Can you provide evidence that some other meaning is better-known among English speakers? A. Parrot (talk) 07:30, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

To address the concerns of the OP - I deleted your fix because it didn't work. The Egyptian company of gods are refered to as 'The Ennead', the works of Plotinus are 'The Enneads'. While it is true that ennead is the Greek for nine things - to use it in this way in English would be like saying the Great Pyramid means a large wheat cake or Obelisk means a nail like object. Obviously you are free to try another edit if you wish but it seems ok to me.Apepch7 (talk) 11:17, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

The first response pointed me to what I think is the correct action. My impression is now that people don't know that 'ennead' is a common noun ('common' in the technical sense), and look it up in Wikipedia rather than a dictionary. So I'll put in a dictionary reference near the reference to Plotinus; that should do it. I'll fix the Greek while I'm there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paul Asman (talk • contribs) 00:05, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

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Nine?

"The Internet Classics Archive | The Six Enneads by Plotinus classics.mit.edu/Plotinus/enneads.html The Six Enneads By Plotinus Written 250 A.C.E.. Translated by Stephen Mackenna and B. S. Page. The Six Enneads has been divided into the following ..."

But who's counting?

David Lloyd-Jones (talk) 18:48, 12 July 2017 (UTC)