Talk:Greeks in the United Kingdom

This is not a PR page

This is not a PR article. Some of the names appearing in the names list do not merit being there - even if though they are good people; for instance, Kristian Leontiou, Theo Paphitis, etc... One of you guys adding them in must be plucking out names from a list or a book and pasting them in. Please give some thought into what you are doing and let us be constructive or (very civilised) action will be taken to remedy the situation. Thanks. Politis 12:52, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Removing Cypriots from the list

I propose removing the Cypriots from the list to a new article called '(Greek?) Cypriots in Great Britain'. Naturally, there are people whith both Greek and Cypriot parents; these can appear in both lists. I am not sure about those Cypriots who consider themselves to be only Greek. Politis 18:24, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Greece and Cyprus are different countries, of the same nation. Gts-tg (talk) 04:37, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Included people

I was wondering, since the definition of a "Greek Briton" is "people of Greek and Greek Cypriot ancestry who were born or were raised in the United Kingdom", why are we including folks like Stelios Giannakopoulos and Georgios Samaras when neither of them were born or raised in the UK? --Kimon^talk 17:45, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Ελληνικός Βρετανός

Shouldn't it be Ελληνο-Βρετανός or Έληνας Βρετανός? Actually, why even have a subtitle at all? Greek American, Greek Canadians, etc. don't. --Kimon^talk 17:48, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Change of article name

The name of this article is meaningless and had no preponderance. The ususal term is British Greeks, Greeks in Britain. Politis 17:32, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Agreed --Kimon^talk 19:08, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

The term 'British Greeks' isnt good either,,since that sounds like British people living in Greece as Greek citizens...depends on the way its understood....i think this is pretty understood to most... Hispania16 October 2007 (UTC)

The title was recently changed from Greeks in Great Britain. Suggest we move it there or, even better, just Greeks in Britain (it is more succinct).Politis 16:12, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I doubt there would be any confusion with ...Brits living in Greece. I mean, come on, who doesn't know that the Greek diaspora is only comparable to the Jewish? Greek-Americans etc means only Greeks living in US and not vice versa, and it's the most common term. Same for Britain (et al). I wouldn't object to "Greeks in Britain" either though. NikoSilver 22:06, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Population Figures

The population figures given in this article are at least 30 years out of date. After the Turkish invasion of Cyprus there were 200,000 Greek Cypriots alone that lived in the UK. By 1980, 200,000 Greek Cypriots lived in north London and there were about 40,000 Greeks from Greece living in London alone. Whoever wrote this article has obviously taken the London figures for Greek Cypriots in the late 1970's and applied them to all Greeks. The realistic figure for Greeks (of all origins) living in the UK is more like 400,000, about 270,000 who live in the Greater London area and 130,000 in the rest of the UK including about 50,000 in Birmingham. --82.152.253.59 (talk) 18:19, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

It is generally accepted that the Cypriot population in London, often referred to as Little Cyprus is the same as that of the Cypriot capital Nicosia whose population is currently 279.545, therefore I propose that the figures in this article and those that are related to it are amended to 400,000 and that the figure of 200,000 is used as a historical reference for the Cypriot population of London in 1980 which I know for a fact was the value quoted by everyone at that time. --82.152.253.59 (talk) 18:27, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Merge to Western European migration to Britain

'Greek Briton' is a neologism rarely used outside Wikipedia. In addition, this page is short and mostly unsourced, and can easily be merged to the above page. Cop 663 (talk) 19:13, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose, the immigration from different areas of western europe have completely different stories behind them. Gustav von Humpelschmumpel (talk) 23:01, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
  • This is not about changing the article, it's about housekeeping. Have a look at Western European migration to Britain. Cop 663 (talk) 23:11, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
    • All these countries and areas have completely different reasons for immigration to Britain and at different times. It is silly to just put it all in one article. Gustav von Humpelschmumpel (talk) 23:14, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
      • Thanks for the input. Could you have a look at the discussion about this at the UK Wikipedian's noticeboard and offer your opinion on the ideas under discussion? There are a few problems with articles of this kind and we're trying to figure out a good solution. Thanks. Cop 663 (talk) 23:27, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Oppose, There is already an article on European migration to Britain at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Other_%28United_Kingdom_Census%29

This article Greek Briton is linked directly to that, and articles about other immigrant communities are linked to White Other (United Kingdom Census) also. Western European migration to Britain should be merged with White Other (United Kingdom Census) and this article left alone.--82.152.253.59 (talk) 15:15, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

That's a very good point, thanks. Cop 663 (talk) 18:48, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Population numbers

The statement "There are no official statistics on the number of Greeks and Greek Cypriots in Great Britain and there are no scientifically based estimates" is totally inaccurate. The 2001 UK Census provides official statistics and there is enough there to make some scientifically based estimates or at least set some lower and upper limits and substantiate the figures already given.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/uk/05/born_abroad/countries/html/cyprus.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/uk/05/born_abroad/countries/html/greece.stm

This article also needs a rewrite more in the style of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek-American

--Pankration2008 (talk) 03:42, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

The section of the article on Greece and Cyprus born Britons was fully referenced and should not have been removed by Cordless Larry. The section of the article on Region distribution of Greek Britons is also fully referenced and once again should not have been removed by Cordless Larry either. The section of the article on Historical development of the Greek Britons is based on estimates published by Greek community representatives and organisations such as London Greek Radio, The National Federation of Cypriots in the UK and the Greek Orthodox Church in the UK and this fact is made clear in the article itself. Anyone who cares to attend meetings or works for these organisations will be able to verify the authenticity of the estimates. These deleeted sections have therefore been reinstated. --Pankration2008 (talk) 23:23, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

How is it fully referenced? There are whole sections of text that aren't referenced. Furthermore, those two BBC pages don't give the total Greek population since the Cyprus one includes Turkish Cypriots. Your addition of text such as "Since Cyprus has a nominal Greek Cypriot population of 82%, approximately 63,000 of these British residents at the time of the Census may have been of Greek origin (assuming a negligible number of British ex-pats and servicemen giving birth abroad). Roughly 1/3 of Greek Greeks reside inside Greater London and 2/3 of Cypriots reside in Greater London" violates WP:OR.Cordless Larry (talk) 23:40, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

You reverted the article back again without even bothering to read the additional references I added. That is completely dishonest. If you don't trust London Greek Radio, The National Federation of Cypriots in the UK the Greek Orthodox Church or Cyprus national broadcasted RIK then you should prove that they are not reliable sources on the history and population numbers of Greeks living in the UK. The consensus around all of these organisations is that there are over 400,000 Greek Britons and 300,000 of them reside in Greater London. --Pankration2008 (talk) 23:54, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

It would be useful if you could find full references for these sources, including URLs if possible. Furthermore, you added far more than population estimates. Cordless Larry (talk) 23:57, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Infobox pictures

Is George Michael really a good example of a British Greek? He is more widely associated with Cyprus and British Cypriots. His connections with Greece are only that of speculated Greek descent. Is it worth keeping him up there? Sillyfolkboy (talk) 18:24, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Requested move (November 2009)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was move. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 05:50, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

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Greek Britons → Greeks in the United Kingdom — - Suggesting move to more descriptive title to avoid neologism. Cordless Larry (talk) 19:25, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

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400.000 Greeks in Britain I doubt it

The Republic of Cyprus Government claims that there are an estimated 150.000 Greek Cypriots in the UK. The Greek Government states that they have around 30.000 students there. The 400.000 is a great exaggeration to say the least.Siras.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Siras (talk • contribs) 07:55, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Favonian (talk) 12:42, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

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Greeks in the United Kingdom → Greek British – Greeks in the United Kingdom can not be used as a Demonym so the best and most used term is Greek British. MarkMysoe (talk) 07:58, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose Neologism which is certainly not the most widely-used name in reliable sources to refer to this population. Every other article about migrant populations in Britain has been moved away from this "Fooian British" style name because no evidence could be found for it; now they are at similar descriptive titles such as Japanese in the United Kingdom, or in the reverse order where that is supported by reliable sources, such as British Chinese or British Pakistanis. There is no need for the title of the article to be a demonym. Also, please do not try to change the title of the article without gaining consensus. cab (call) 07:59, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose unless multiple reliable sources can be found that establish that "Greek British" is a commonly used term for this group. Cordless Larry (talk) 08:18, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose -- There was a long series or multiple renames several years ago to get all these dual nationality artifles and categories renamed to this format or as Booians of Fooain descent, because Booian fooian can also be interpreted as Fooians of Booian descent. Peterkingiron (talk) 21:57, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Why Greek-Cypriots are excluded from infobox?

I wonder why this ethnic-Greek subgroup is excluded from the infobox numbers. It fits perfectly the definition of the title. Not to mention, the relevant fact, that the same article about Turks includes the number of T.Cypriots, which I find it reasonable.Alexikoua (talk) 10:28, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Possibly because this article exists: British Cypriots. Softlavender (talk) 05:35, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Population way out of line and no reliable resource

Source [1] is not official and is based on hearsay. According to the Home Office figures in the White Paper on article 50 (Brexit) estimates the number of Greeks in the UK to about 60000. This is in line with the 2011 census figures, where 35000 declared themselves as Greek in England and Wales. https://www.docdroid.net/fcur2OR/the-united-kingdoms-exit-from-and-partnership-with-the-eu.pdf.html#page=3 http://www.nomisweb.co.uk/census/2011/small_population — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.29.153.212 (talk) 22:10, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

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According to this article: "That set the pattern for Greek settlement over the next two hundred years. Some came as soldiers during the reign of Henry VIII, led by the officers Theodore Luchisi, Antonios Stesinos, and Colonel Thomas of Argos, responsible for the garrisoning of the then-English possession of Calais.16" Source of this is an ridiculous article of a Greek scholar Nicholas C. J. Pappas, https://web.archive.org/web/20150924101628/http://www.shsu.edu/~his_ncp/Stradioti.html And this is the citation from the article of Pappas: "Since Spain and Naples were connected with the Holy Roman Empire through the person of Charles V in the first half of the 16th century, stradioti were soon found serving the Habsburgs not only in Italy, but also in Germany and the Netherlands. Among those who distinguished themselves in Habsburg service and became knights of the Holy Roman Empire were the captains Iakovos Diassorinos, Georgios Bastas, the Brothers Vasilikos, and the redoubtable Merkourios Bouas. Bouas was given titles by the Venetians and French as well.[41] Henry VIII also employed Stradioti in France and England, notably under the captains Thomas Buas of Argos, Theodore Luchisi, and Antonios Stesinos. The former was named colonel and commander of stradioti in Henry's service at Calais.[42]" Nowhere is written that these people were Greeks. But at least Pappas is useful in something because he mention Henry VIII who was their employer. Let see what in the archives of Henry VIII is written. "20 Jan.

90. The Privy Council.

Dasent's

A P C., 316 To Sir Thos. Seymour, to deliver to Sir Peter Mewtes, for Guernsey, one ton of shot and other ordnance (specified). Letter to Surrey to receive Anthony Stasino and Nic. Crexia, Albanoys captains who served last summer in the North, with 50 horsemen apiece, to serve at Boulogne with 30 cr. a month and wages for their officers and men, and the whole wages which other Albanoys captains under Cavalier Thomaso receive, as soon as they increase their numbers to 100 apiece. Letter in Italian to Cavalier Thomaso, colonel of the Albanoys at Boulogne, to receive them." Source: https://www.british-history.ac.uk/letters-papers-hen8/vol21/no1/pp27-45 Greeks, stop stealing history from Albanians. 79.106.215.110 (talk) 17:07, 19 December 2024 (UTC)