Talk:Israel

Minor Edit

I can't make this edit as I don't have 500 edits yet, but

However, efforts to resolve the Israeli–Palestinian conflict after the interim Oslo Accords have not succeeded, and the country has engaged in several wars and clashes with Palestinian militant groups.Israel's practices in its occupation of the Palestinian territories have drawn sustained international criticism—along with accusations that it has committed war crimes and crimes against humanity against the Palestinian people—from human rights organizations and United Nations officials.

needs to have a space between the two sentences.

Thanks guys! ElevenOfHertz (talk) 17:52, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Fixed, thanks for pointing this out. Remsense ‥ 论 17:57, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Putting in American financial support for Israel in the very first paragraph of the lead

Would it be appropriate to put in American financial backing for Israel over the years in the very first paragraph of the lead? I don't think so, but one user appeared to support the idea[1], so I thought to start a discussion. Pinging (RCSCott91—Selfstudier—ABHammad—Eladkarmel—Czello—Galamore—האופה). VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 17:20, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

@Vice regent, no, I do not think so. The article is not about the United States, and such prominent characterizations of bilateral support or dependence are best reserved for historical polities where the book is closed and the motor of history has moved on. Remsense ‥ 论 17:28, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

My comment was tongue in cheek response. Selfstudier (talk) 17:31, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

No, WP:UNDUE. — Czello ^(music) 18:07, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

No, that simply is not due. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 19:23, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Of course not, the US provides aid of all kinds to tens of countries. Israel is a US Ally and so get military aid just like many NATO countries Fyukfy5 (talk) 20:11, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

@Fyukfy5: the point is that without the weapons sent by the US, Israel would probably have lost the war immediately (and there would probably have been fewer deaths). In my opinion, it's essential to include the information proposed by the OP; however, I will vote neither yes nor no. JacktheBrown (talk) 14:30, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 October 2024

I'd like to edit this article to include some factual information Kqyde (talk) 20:15, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

@Kqyde. Can you clarify what edit you wanna make? Hacked (Talk|Contribs) 20:17, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: requests for decreases to the page protection level should be directed to the protecting admin or to Wikipedia:Requests for page protection if the protecting admin is not active or has declined the request. Remsense ‥ 论 20:21, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Please see the information I just posted on your user talk page. You cannot make edits that have anything to do with the Israeli-Arab conflict until your account is 30 days old with 500 edits or more. You may propose edit requests for completely uncontroversial changes that do not require discussion and consensus. 331dot (talk) 20:25, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Link to Gaza genocide

If you look at the List of genocides: every state which has been accused of committing a genocide, the gencide it had been accused of committing is linked from that states wikipedia-article, with one exception: Israel.

Son course, I could have added "Israel has been accused of committing the Gaza genocide<refs>", but I suspect some of the "watchers" of this page might not like that. So, I want to hear first: what argument are there against it? cheers, Huldra (talk) 23:34, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Well, if I don't hear any arguments against it in the next couple of days, I will add it, Huldra (talk) 23:46, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Ok, I haven't heard any protests, so I am adding it. Hope I don't end up like Hugh Despenser the Younger, Huldra (talk) 21:39, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

You may not have heard anything because we've had this conversation before. Ideally, you should've done a cursory search of the archives before deciding you had implicit consensus for this. Remsense ‥ 论 21:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

User:Remsense: I did search for Gaza genocide in the archives, and got 0 hits.... Has there been a RfC about it? Huldra (talk) 22:05, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Ideally you would provide a reason for your revert on the talk page. nableezy - 22:06, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

a link would have be nice.....Huldra (talk) 22:11, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

User:Remsense: Second time: has there been a WP:RFC about it? If not, I might start one, Huldra (talk) 22:19, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, I was busy collecting the links below. I would support that, it seems of crucial importance. Remsense ‥ 论 22:21, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

To be clear, I am not expressing my opinion on whether it should be included—I'm also going to be intellectually honest and express my opinion based on what I've read over the past year that it's all but certain to be DUE in the lead in the near future if it isn't already now—I am only pointing out that there is no consensus for it to the best of my understanding as an observer. See discussions within α93 § 2nd paragraph up to 1948 (continued), α102 § RFC on human rights language in lead, α107 § Lede summary proposal 2 that all indicate to me that this needs to be discussed beforehand at the very least. Remsense ‥ 论 22:21, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

OK, User:Remsense perhaps we should take this in 2 steps?

• • First: should a link to Gaza genocide be included in this article?
  • if yes: where should a link be included

And this is unlikely to go away anytime soon, Huldra (talk) 22:34, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Probably in the same place where we mention that a sitting PM is subject of an arrest warrant for using starvation as a weapon of war. Selfstudier (talk) 23:17, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 November 2024

As of June 2024, the State of Israel is recognized as a sovereign state by 164 of the 192 member states of the United Nations. Northernheathen (talk) 19:46, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Please be more specific, where are you proposing this text go? 331dot (talk) 23:47, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 01:34, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

RfC

Should the article Gaza genocide be linked from this article, and if yes, where?

Possible answers:

• No, it should not be linked
• Yes, it should be linked in the lead.
• Yes, it should be linked from the body of the article (please specify which paragraph)

cheers, Huldra (talk) 22:20, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Discussion (RfC)

This doesn’t seem that actionable an RfC, or that productive a question. The content of the article is what is discussed, and links serve as navigational aids for delving into the content. Considering a link alone in the aether rather misses its purpose. CMD (talk) 09:02, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Seems that there should be first some material in the body related to the wikilink and South Africa's genocide case against Israel. @Huldra: Suggest you pull the RFC tag on this for now until some material can be put together for the article body. Selfstudier (talk) 11:07, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Something like this perhaps

Israel is accused of carrying out a genocide against the Palestinian people by experts, governments, United Nations agencies, and non-governmental organisations during its invasion of the Gaza Strip in the ongoing Israel–Hamas war. Observers, including the UN Special Committee to investigate Israeli practices and United Nations Special Rapporteur Francesca Albanese, have cited statements by senior Israeli officials that may indicate an "intent to destroy" (in whole or in part) Gaza's population, a necessary condition for the legal threshold of genocide to be met. A majority of mostly US-based Middle East scholars believe Israel's actions in Gaza were intended to make it uninhabitable for Palestinians, and 75% of them say Israel's actions in Gaza constitute either genocide or "major war crimes akin to genocide". On 29 December 2023, South Africa instituted proceedings against Israel at the International Court of Justice pursuant to the Genocide Convention,

This is just wrt the genocide issue, need something about the arrest warrants as well. Selfstudier (talk) 15:43, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

• Yes, it should be linked in the lead and the body of the article, attached to content similar to that Selfstudier developed above, and content similar to that Huldra developed in [2] would serve well in the lede. It's obviously something readers are going to be coming to this page to learn more about, and the information exists on the encyclopedia, the conversations about whether it belongs here or not have laready been had, so there's no reason this page should not serve reader needs. — penultimate_supper 🚀 ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:53, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
• Yes, adding content as Selfstudier's above, preferably at the end of the 21st century paragraph + add a single sentence to the end of lead like this, Huldra (talk) 22:15, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
• Yes, adding content as Selfstudier's above, preferably at the end of the 21st century paragraph and add a single sentence to the end of lead per Huldra, but I would modify their suggested end-of-lead text ("In 2024, Israel was accused of committing the Gaza genocide)" to "In 2024, Israel was accused of committing genocide in Gaza" or similar. My logic for the change is that the accusation/dispute centres on whether Israel's actions in Gaza constitute genocide (or are legitimate self-defence/similar), rather than whether the 'Gaza genocide' is being committed by Israel (as opposed to some other State or body) which Huldra's text otherwise implies.Pincrete (talk) 07:59, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
• Yes, I agree with the inclusion in the lead. JacktheBrown (talk) 16:02, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
• Yes to Selfstudier's suggestion in the body per the weight of reliable sources given (I'll leave to others to determine where), with a summary in the lead. Only suggestion is to add the arrest warrants on. TarnishedPath^talk 09:29, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
• Yes it should be included in the lede and in the body text.--Ortizesp (talk) 14:21, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
• Yes similarly to how self has suggested DMH223344 (talk) 00:09, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
• No Not until a new article about Palestine's genocide against Israel is linked to the Palestine article.Allthemilescombined1 (talk) 01:36, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

  See WP:OTHERCONTENT and then perhaps think about making a policy based argument or your !vote will likely be ignored by whoever closes this RFC. TarnishedPath^talk 02:30, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• No Given that there is no actual genocide. Very much not. MaskedSinger (talk) 05:06, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

References