Talk:Nadezhda Alliluyeva

"The couple married in 1919"

Was there an actual marriage ceremony? Otherwise I don't think that the above is a correct statement. Smallbones 16:40, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

references

there's more words in the references section than in the actual article =_= 124.176.1.12 23:54, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it's very strangely written.--Jack Upland (talk) 05:14, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

I have removed the long quotation in the notes about the "public spat". We do not know how the events of that evening influenced her suicide. It was not unusual behaviour by either of them, and we certainly don't need a long extract like that.--Jack Upland (talk) 00:30, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

Suicide

I think most people agree it was suicide.--Jack Upland (talk) 10:14, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Nadezhda Alliluyeva. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://archive.is/20120801112844/http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/ahr/106.5/ah0501001651.html to http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/ahr/106.5/ah0501001651.html
• Added archive https://archive.is/20120801112844/http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/ahr/106.5/ah0501001651.html to http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/ahr/106.5/ah0501001651.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20031121181425/http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/7244-12.cfm to http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/7244-12.cfm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 19:39, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:

• Nadezhda Sergeyevna Alliluyeva (1901–1932).jpg (discussion)
• Василий Сталин, 1942 год.jpg (discussion)

Participate in the deletion discussions at the nomination pages linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 03:52, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Могила жены Сталина на Новодевичьем кладбище.JPG

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:52, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Nadezhda Alliluyeva/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: CaroleHenson (talk · contribs) 06:38, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello, I am happy to perform a review of this article. My approach is to review each section, make minor edits as I go along (links, punctuation, etc.) to save us both time and effort, and then assess the article against GA criteria. Feel free to revert edits that I make if you disagree.–CaroleHenson (talk) 06:38, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for going through the article. Let me know once you finish your review, and I'll address everything at once. Kaiser matias (talk) 15:47, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Sounds like a plan! I should finish it today. I will ping you when I am done.–CaroleHenson (talk) 16:21, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Introduction

• The section and the infobox look good.
• I changed "Industrial Academy to "Industrial Academy in Moscow".
• I may come back to this section after finishing the other sections.–CaroleHenson (talk) 07:28, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Early life

Background

• Looks good! I added a link to Caucasus.
• It seems the sentence Alliluyeva was the youngest of four children, following Anna, Fyodor, and Pavel.[9] would be better following the first sentence in the Youth section: "Alliluyeva was born in Baku in 1901.[10]"?–CaroleHenson (talk) 07:37, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Done. Kaiser matias (talk) 17:27, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Great, this section is  Done.–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:29, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Youth

• To make it a bit easier to read how about changing The family moved to Moscow in 1904, but were back in Baku in 1906, though to avoid arrest Sergei moved the family again in 1907 to Saint Petersburg, where they would remain.[11] to two sentences: "The family moved to Moscow in 1904, but were back in Baku in 1906. To avoid arrest, Sergei moved the family again in 1907 to Saint Petersburg, where they would remain."?
• I changed supported to supporter in Exposed to revolutionary activity throughout her youth, Alliluyeva first became a supported of the Bolsheviks while in school.
• I added a comma after "After Lenin escaped Russia,"
• In Her family frequently hosted members at their home, including hiding Vladimir Lenin during the July Days, further confirmed Alliluyeva's stance.[6], what do you think of changing "further confirmed Alliluyeva's stance" to "which further strengthened Alliluyeva's stance"? Or, perhaps "resolve"?

I modified it and used "views", which I think is a better description of things. Kaiser matias (talk) 17:27, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

• "2 years old" does not need to be hyphenated, it is not before a noun.
• What do you think of changing "as such custom" to "as the custom", a more common way to say the phrase? It's fine if you like it the way it is. Just a thought.–CaroleHenson (talk) 07:50, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Nah, you're wording is much cleaner, so made the change. Kaiser matias (talk) 17:27, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Great, this section is  Done.–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:31, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Life and career

Professional life

• I added a comma after "In 19xx" where needed in the article.
• In the sentence, This annoyed Stalin, who wanted his wife to remain at home and quit her work. - unless it causes a copyvio issue, it would be nice to say that he wanted her to "quit her job and remain at home" because that would be the natural progression of things.

That is just my writing. Cleared it up. Kaiser matias (talk) 17:27, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

• Removed "even" from "Alliluyeva was even expelled from..."
• In Alliluyeva was concerned that if she did not work outside the home, she would not be taken seriously, and desired to be qualified for any role she took up. It's kind of mixing up two thoughts that don't work with the leading phrase.

• It could be reworded into two sentences like: "Alliluyeva was concerned that if she did not work outside the home, she would not be taken seriously. She also desired to be qualified for any role she took up."
• Or, perhaps something like: Alliluyeva wanted to be taken seriously, therefore she wanted to be employed outside of the home in a position for which she was qualified.

I went with your first phrase, as it comes across better (in my view at least). Kaiser matias (talk) 17:27, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

• "onto" (as in, place something onto the table) is not correct in the next sentence, it should be "to" or "on to".

Fixed. Kaiser matias (talk) 17:27, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

• "As per custom of the time," is better as "As per the custom of the time,"

Done. Kaiser matias (talk) 17:27, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

• I added a comma after "At the Academy" in At the Academy Alliluyeva interacted with students from across the Soviet Union,
• Do you have a bit more information about what the issues were with "collectivization of agriculture" in Russia / Ukraine?

Added a brief note that it was a major famine, but not sure if we want to get to into detail here. But if you think a little more is necessary, I can do so. Kaiser matias (talk) 17:27, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

No, that's fine. It is just nice to get a little more info about what was causing angst. Thanks!–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:35, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

• I added "she" to the last sentence. You could also remove "she" and the comma (i.e., make it so it is not a compound sentence).–CaroleHenson (talk) 12:05, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Great, this section is  Done.–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:35, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Family life

• Regarding Alliluyeva was only six years older than Dzhugashvili, who became her step-son, though the two became friendly to each other.[39] would it be a little crisper to say "Alliluyeva was only six years older than her step-son, Dzhugashvili, with whom she developed a friendly relationship."?

Done. Kaiser matias (talk) 17:27, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

• Regarding The family in 1921 also took in Artyom Sergeyev, the son of Fyodor Sergeyev, a close friend of Stalin., what do you think about "Also in 1921, the family took in Artyom Sergeyev, the son of Fyodor Sergeyev, a close friend of Stalin's." (i.e., if the words were switched, it would be "Stalin's close friend", so it should be possessive.)

Changed, but moved the "also" to after the year, as I find that reads better. Kaiser matias (talk) 17:27, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

• Regarding Alliluyeva suspected Stalin was unfaithful and had relationships with other women.... since having an affair would mean he was having relationships with other women, what do you think about "Alliluyeva suspected Stalin was unfaithful with other women."

Done. Kaiser matias (talk) 17:27, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

• Regarding On several occasions Alliluyeva looked at leaving Stalin and taking the children with her, and in 1926 actually left for a short time, moving to Leningrad. However Stalin called her back, and she returned to stay with him., "actually" is not needed, but "she" would be helpful. What about "On several occasions Alliluyeva looked at leaving Stalin and taking the children with her, and in 1926 she left for a short time, moving to Leningrad. However Stalin called her back, and she returned to stay with him." where "she" replaces "actually".

Done. Kaiser matias (talk)

• I added three commas to this section.–CaroleHenson (talk) 17:01, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Great, this section is  Done.–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:37, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Health

• I changed "but Montefiore has suggested that might have had..." to "but Montefiore has suggested that she might have had..."
• Regarding She also had periods in 1922 and 1923 that saw her have "special rest cures" for "drowsiness and weakness"., what do you think about somelike like "She also had "special rest cures" in 1922 and 1923 for "drowsiness and weakness".?

Done. Kaiser matias (talk) 17:27, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

• It's not really contraception because conception took place. What do you think about the change of There are also reports that Alliluyeva had several abortions throughout the 1920s, which was a common method of contraception at the time in the Soviet Union, which may have caused further medical issues.[4][a] to "There are also reports that throughout the 1920s Alliluyeva had several abortions, which was a common method of family planning at the time in the Soviet Union, which may have caused further medical issues.[4][a]"? For this example, I also moved "throughout the 1920s" so that "which was a common method" follows "abortion". There are two "which" used in the sentence. Maybe break off the 2nd which use into its own sentence? Other?

Thanks for catching the word use there. I feel that "family planning" is kind of anachronistic and not in the spirit of what was going on, so just went with a more basic "birth control". Kaiser matias (talk) 17:27, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Okay.–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:45, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

• Did the source say that caffeine "would have only made the symptoms worse.[5]"? Or, more to the point, did it make her headaches worse? (Caffeine is a migraine trigger, but is also used with pain relievers as a migraine abortive.)–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:45, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Quoting Montefiore: The doctors prescribed 'caffeine' to pep her up. Stalin later blamed the caffeine and he was right: caffeine would have disastrously exacerbated her despair.. As I read and understood the passage it made things worse, but I'm by no means an expert and if you have thoughts on how to better present it I'll certainly take that in. Kaiser matias (talk) 17:27, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

I took a stab at She suffered with headaches throughout her life and was given caffeine by Soviet doctors to "pep her up", which was not helpful and worsened her emotional health.

• Please modify the headache sentence as you see fit. I consider this section  Done.–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:45, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Death

Last night

• You have a great talent for wording scenarios, like her dinner out, so that I visualize the scenes.

Thanks. Helps to have a source that does the same (Montefiore's description is very vivid and fluid).

• Regarding the two women walked outside within the Kremlin, I am not understanding both "walked outside" and "within the Kremlin". Perhaps, "within the Kremlin complex"?

Sorry, it has a wall encasing the complex. I made that clearer. Kaiser matias (talk) 17:27, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

• For the second half of this sentence: The two women walked outside within the Kremlin, discussing the events of the night and agreeing that Stalin was drunk and Alliluyeva's issues with Stalin's supposed affairs.[7], what do you think of "The two women walked outside within the Kremlin, discussing the events of the night, agreeing that Stalin was drunk, and talking about Alliluyeva's issues with Stalin's supposed affairs.[7]" so that there is a third verb?

Definitely. Added. Kaiser matias (talk) 17:27, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

• I added a comma and a link.–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:03, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

• This section looks great and is  Done.–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:46, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Funeral and burial

• Looks good!–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:08, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Aftermath

• Regarding She ultimately from the Soviet Union in 1967, ..., did you mean to say that "She ultimately emigrated from..."

I just noticed that someone added the word "fled".–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:50, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

They did, but I changed it to "defected" as that is a more accurate phrase. Kaiser matias (talk) 17:27, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

• Regarding "Stalin upon Svetlana" in After her death Stalin upon Svetlana but virtually ignored Vasily is another or two needed for this sentence?–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:13, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Weird, I could swear I wrote "dotted" there. Have added it now. Kaiser matias (talk) 17:27, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Notes

• If you think of it, it would be nice to have a citation for "Also known by its Russian name, Poteshny Palace." Poteshny is in the romanized name of the palace, but I do not see it in the cited source.–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:17, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Done. Kaiser matias (talk) 17:27, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks!–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:46, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

GA criteria

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

Comments

• Here is a diff of the minor edits that I made to the article, including one word changes, links, and punctuation.
• Regarding the GA criteria, the article is well-written, conforms to WP:MOS guidelines, and content is properly cited with reliable sources. The article is neutral and stable - and is focused, yet covers the major aspects of the subject.–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:26, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
• There were no detected copy vio issues. The two images in the article are properly tagged and are relevant.
• Because she is deceased, an image of her may be added due to non-free fair use rationale. If you like, I would be happy to upload one using the {{Non-free fair use rationale}}, or you may do it if you like... just remember it has to have the size adjusted. Here are some images. I recommend taking the image from a site that is trustworthy so that we can be pretty sure that the image is of her. If you want me to do it, do you mind providing the link and I'll take care of it.

I've actually been working on that, as I had one used that was just recently deleted at Commons. Due to the current lockdown though I can't get to more in depth materials, but am hoping to once possible. Until then I'm inclined to wait as I want to ensure there is no issues. Kaiser matias (talk) 17:27, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Yep, you cannot load it to commons. You need to:

• Go to Wikipedia:File Upload Wizard
• I select Use the plain form for Wikipedia, which gives me this page
• Upload the file, which needs to be reduced in size below 100kb.
• For the summary field, you need to copy the template form at {{Non-free fair use rationale}} and complete that set of fields.

This image of Caroline P. Miller shows how the summary field is completed.–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:57, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

• Overall, Kaiser matias, you've done a really good job on this article. It was interesting.–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:35, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

I addressed everything above, noting where I did so. If there is anything else please let me know. And thanks for taking the time to go through it so thoroughly, really appreciate it, and glad you enjoyed reading it. Kaiser matias (talk) 17:27, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I really did... and am ready to pass it. Please see the note above about the headache sentence and I provided info to upload a file to Wikipedia. Non-free fair use images cannot be loaded to commons.–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:57, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Her health

• This edit (edit summary). Where this text or cited sources explicitly say these health issues were related to her death? For example, her abortions and headaches? Well, if they are indeed related to her death or anything else, as explicitly stated in RS, then the text should be included to the corresponding section(s), such as one about her death. My very best wishes (talk) 03:40, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

There is indeed a book describing the subject, i.e. Stalin And Medicine: Untold Stories by Natalya Rapoport, but it tells something different in chapter: "The Mystery of Stalin's Wife's Death: Who pulled the trigger?" [1]. My very best wishes (talk) 04:31, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

For example, it say (page 100) that Dr. Rozenthal (personal physician of N. Alliluyeva) said that Stalin had killed her. Who knows if this is true, but it is reliably sourced, and yes, that could be included. On the other hand, if the health issues are rather minor and not explicitly connected in RS to anything more important in biography, they should be removed.My very best wishes (talk) 21:22, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

So, once again, if it was related to her death, then the text must explain how exactly it was allegedly related to her death (per these RS) and included to section about her death. My very best wishes (talk) 16:15, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Alliluyeva, Nadezhda Portrait.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:09, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Aftermath

"He continued working, and from 1924 to 1928 was in charge of the electric cable network for Leningrad."

Since this section deals with the aftermath of Alliluyeva's death in 1932, it seems out of place to say her father continued working and was in charge of the network from '24-'28. Perhaps that information should be moved to the "Early Life" section and cut completely from "Aftermath." OneEarDrummer (talk) 03:46, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

It could be that the dates are wrong. Probably best to cut out completely.--Jack Upland (talk) 04:45, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Removed. OneEarDrummer (talk) 04:18, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Stop Vandalism

She was born on September 1901 and married him on February 1919..so that’s make her 17 5.52.124.242 (talk) 19:20, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

The majority of Kremlin staff weren't dismissed because of Alliluyeva's death

The article draws from Red Fortress: History and Illusion in the Kremlin to expand upon how a narrative was constructed around true nature of Alliluyeva's death: "To help keep the true nature of Alliluyeva's death from being released, staff who worked in the Kremlin at the time were either dismissed or arrested"

The problem with this framing is that its misleading about the time, she died in late 1932 and the source then conflates it with the Kremlin Affair in early 1935 which led to the mass dismissal or arrest of many Kremlin staff. Her death is also not the primary reason why many Kremlin staff were dismissed in 1935, it is attributable to a separate event called the Kremlin Affair, which the book refers to it as. The affair encompassed multiple things, but as the book later says many staff were dismissed for ties to the old regime, nepotism, and gossip about forbidden topics like Alliluyeva's death and concerns about collectivization. "Several birds at once were lined up for the coming stone. As everybody knew, there were still staff in the Kremlin who had worked for the palace in the days of the last tsars. Such retainers, whose appointments owed nothing to the new regime, were no longer regarded as reliable."

Essentially, I don't think its accurate to say that the Kremlin staff were purged to prevent the truth about Alliluyeva's death from circulating. Gossip about Alliluyeva's death was punished under slander, however the majority of staff were purged primarily for reasons listed above and other reasons listed within Red Fortress: History and Illusion in the Kremlin. Padlocks (talk) 06:37, 18 March 2024 (UTC)