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Please note these special sanctions for American politics

This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

You have shown interest in post-1932 politics of the United States and closely related people. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.

For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.  Bishonen | talk 17:49, 19 November 2019 (UTC).

• Please don't remove content without even giving a reason, especially from contentious articles such as Fox News. Use edit summaries! Bishonen | talk 17:53, 19 November 2019 (UTC).

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Unreliable sources and Synthesis

I refer to your edit here: [1]. Please read WP:RS. The YouTube video you are trying to add is clearly not from an established reliable source. Please don't add such low-quality material as references to this article or any other.

Please also read WP:SYNTH. A paragraph you added (which I have since removed here [2]) is a clear violation of this guideline, in the sense that none of the sources you have added actually criticise the subject, rather, you're just joining the dots yourself. You also cannot cite this to an unreliable source, such as that YouTube video, even if the connection is indeed accurate. The connections needs to be made by a reliable source in order to be cited. Have a nice day. Damien Linnane (talk) 03:03, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply and explanations, Damien. I appreciate the later edits condensing the info from sources I added and removing the unsourced material. I didn't know much about the guideline you cited and have since read up on it.

I've now re-added a bit with the info from Kurzgesagt's statement where they detail their sources of funding into the section you created, as I feel it is relevant and after reading the applicable guidelines, I believe it counts as an acceptable source since they self-published info about themselves, though I was on the fence as to whether it might be considered "self-serving" as per WP:SYNTH. If you feel that it is please do remove it.

Though, just as a sidebar here because I'm curious as to what the consensus and practices about this are in the WP community, I find it funny that the video is considered inadequate for Wikipedia because it's self-published on YouTube, but if any freelance journalist (like myself) were to synthesize these same references with the same conclusions into a hit piece and post it on a news site it would be acceptable.

The policy seems quite outdated in assuming integrity from any journalistic source while presuming unreliability from self-published sources, when in fact the accuracy of the "synthesizing" would be exactly the same -- the video was very sensationalistic in tone (as a journalistic piece could also be) and I tried to counterbalance that in my editing. As a seemingly way more experienced Wikipedian than me, I'd appreciate it if you indulged me on how this contradiction (if it is even considered one) is dealt with in talk pages.

Also, putting the question of reliability aside, in 2023 self-published sources such as these elicit comparable (or even greater) community reactions to journalistic pieces, especially since the subject matter is also a YouTube channel. It received millions upon millions of views and was popular enough to cause a response by Kurzgesagt themselves, so I am curious as to whether it would be anathema to even mention this video (as opposed to using it as a source), as in context its impact was huge.

I don't want to be combative or anything, I was just genuinely curious because I'm passionate about Wikipedia.

Vandergay (talk) 15:30, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

The main issue here is actually WP:SELFPUB. As that guideline points out, anybody can self-publish anything. By comparison, a freelance journalist (at least one who is published in a reputable source), cannot say whatever they like. They can submit whatever they like, but their work is subjected to an editorial and fact-checking process. I have worked as a freelance journalist at times in the past. Sometimes things I submitted were modified by my editor prior to publication for a number of reasons. Of course it's not a perfect process, but it's certainly a lot more solid than allowing things to be cited just because they are popular. Donald Trump got millions of views for suggesting you could kill COVID by injecting bleach; the number of views his comments generated obviously has no bearing on their validity. Neither does the fact his statement was popular enough to cause a response by medical organisations all around the world who disagreed with his theory. Anyway, that's just my take on why this guideline is a good idea. I didn't come up with the guideline and have no power to modify it, but I do think enforcing it is in the best interest of Wikipedia.

Thanks for your friendly response. It's always good to ask questions. :) Damien Linnane (talk) 10:20, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

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TarnishedPath^talk 00:25, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

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