LenF54

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February 2011

Your recent edit to the page Dave Syers appears to have added incorrect information and has been reverted or removed. All information in this encyclopedia must be verifiable in a reliable, published source. If you believe the information that you added was correct, please cite the references or sources or before making the changes, discuss them on the article's talk page. Please use the sandbox for any tests that you wish to make. Do take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. Thank you. GiantSnowman 17:29, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Good spot, I've amended the information accordingly. Regards, GiantSnowman 18:12, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Georgios Tofas

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Your contributed article, Georgios Tofas

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Hello, I notice that you recently created a new page, Georgios Tofas. First, thank you for your contribution; Wikipedia relies solely on the efforts of volunteers such as you. Unfortunately, the page you created covers a topic on which we already have a page - Giorgos Tofas. Because of the duplication, your article has been tagged for speedy deletion. Please note that this is not a comment on you personally and we hope you will to continue helping improve Wikipedia. If the topic of the article you created is one that interests you, then perhaps you would like to help out at Giorgos Tofas - you might like to discuss new information at the article's talk page.

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April 2011

Hi, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you recently tried to give Georgios Tofas a different title by copying its content and pasting either the same content, or an edited version of it, into another page with a different name. This is known as a "cut and paste move", and it is undesirable because it splits the page history, which is needed for attribution and various other purposes. Instead, the software used by Wikipedia has a feature that allows pages to be moved to a new title together with their edit history.

In most cases, once your account is four days old and has ten edits, you should be able to move an article yourself using the "Move" tab at the top of the page. This both preserves the page history intact and automatically creates a redirect from the old title to the new. If you cannot perform a particular page move yourself this way (e.g. because a page already exists at the target title), please follow the instructions at requested moves to have it moved by someone else. Also, if there are any other pages that you moved by copying and pasting, even if it was a long time ago, please list them at Wikipedia:Cut and paste move repair holding pen. Thank you. MrKIA11 (talk) 18:09, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Tottenham Hotspur

Hi LenF54, Based on his madcap criteria for editing this article, self-styled on his own sad beliefs, I too can claim some credentials, in fact I think I out-score him based on when I started supporting the club, where I lived, and for studing sociology. My experience of such editors is that they cannot cope with being continually corrected by other editors and eventually decide that Wikipedia is not for them. We can only hope now the season is underway it will become the focus of his energies. I also see he could not understand the subtlety of the much-loved cockeral being classified as a gamecock in the info box because it related to Henry Percy's interest in cock-fighting, it needs reversing but thought I would wait to see all has gone quiet, your reverting of bitter will be a timely test! Cheers Tmol42 (talk) 18:20, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Len - have a butchers at Tmo's talk pages. I see your points (apart from the personal stuff) but I think I argue mine as well if not better. In good faith. Herbolzheim (talk) 21:57, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Len - I don't know how you know my name. You can have my address and phone number as well if you want. And my hat size. But keep them to yourself – certainly don’t give them to that Tmo who seems to be a bit of a Wikipedia Peacock, never mind a Gamecock. You don’t come across as a Peacock (although you are a little judgemental about me). I don’t think that it is a question of your view v mine; it’s more of a matter of evidence. I contend that by any standards the rivalry between the teams’ fans is and has been bitter. Your view seems to be - tell me if I’m wrong - that we shouldn’t use that word because A. it isn’t evidenced and B. if it were true we shouldn’t say it because it is unseemly.

Regarding A, I will dig up supporting evidence, which is plentiful, to support my contention because I just can’t allow the good folks from around the world not to understand the depth of feeling between Spurs and Arsenal fans now and in the past, which I know a lot about for various reasons. It is similar to that between West Ham and Millwall, Boston Red Sox and New York Yankees, Schalke 04 and Borusia Dortmund, and Norwich and Ipswich; all of which are very deep indeed and could easily be called bitter WITHOUT mentioning any actual fighting (although that has featured and should be mentioned if evidenced). This depth of feeling doesn’t come across as the entry stands. Others agree – Wikipedia editors and every single person I have asked in the past few days: “oh yes, it’s more than just banter with those two” is a typical response to the question “would you call the Arsenal-Spurs rivalry bitter?” My wife just laughed when I suggested that it was good natured – her first game was with me and my Dad in 1984 when she tried to stop an Arsenal fan being kicked after being beaten to the ground bleeding in The Paxton Road end (not by me, Len). She didn’t go again until 1991 when all-seater stadia and Italia 90 seemed to make attendance more civilised. My Grandfather told me that young men often fought at Finsbury Park and White Hart Lane stations in the 1920s and was not one of the “wasn’t like that in my day” crowd. I have seen loads of violence myself and have worked with Arsenal fans who gave me a very hard time (and not in a friendly way); but that is by-the-by as you say. Evidence is needed, not my assertions. I certainly want others’ views and yours count as I think I actually said. I am not an egotistical sort of bloke, I promise you. I leave that to others. Stubborn maybe. And a trained social-scientist who will not be dismissed easily, as well as a soccer fan from NE London.

Regarding B, an encyclopaedia should be accurate – simple as that. I don’t condone bitterness or violence myself; but like it or not the rivalry has been rancorous, and it has been dangerous to attend Spurs-Arsenal games and one still needs to be careful. I have a mate who is a builder and supports Arsenal as does his son. He says Harry should be the England manager and would like him at Highbury; I say Arsenal have played great football in the last ten years and was not pleased to see them beaten badly by Man U who I am heartily sick of along with Chelsea. But when we were younger we wouldn’t have been so generous, and another guy I know really bristled when I mentioned that we used to take over the North Bank every year in the late ‘70s. It was fun and fulfilling for me to be part of something significant and have a sense of identity. But I will try to ensure that my daughter gets these feelings in other ways. She has become a Leyton Orient fan – I took her over there with a view of going to Spurs later if she liked football but it has backfired and The Yids are her second team I am afraid, with the Os first. She thinks Southend and Millwall are the Os rivals but not that those rivalries are bitter (which is right – it just comes down to a bit of chanting, at least with Southend).

That’s it. Below is a summary of a text I posted on Tmo’s page. He’s removed it (he doesn’t like it when people have a go back, I can see from his history). I would like you to read it if you didn’t do so before he took it off as I think you are fair-minded and I want to be as well. The Yids thing is very close to home – flying the Israeli flag at games was great and you still see it sometimes. But the point is that the nickname is more often used than Lilywhites I assure you: evidencing this might be hard though as although every fan that goes or used to go in the past twenty years would agree I think, the press doesn’t use it. Best…. Lloyd

[Fellas: Tmo's vast experience and sagacity doesn't seem to take in that he/she could ever be wrong, and the only one bandying around personal beliefs and subjectivity is him/her. An art form is made of continually correcting others, then it is said that there was a need, and that they eventually get fed up with it. Yes, they do. But some will persist. He says that I am mad and sad, and mocks my qualifications (place, time, academic, ethnic, and I suspect class), just because I don't agree with him. He should be ashamed for not arguing out the points rationally then giving over with good grace if bettered. I am not a psychologist but I think he may be the one with a hang-up. I also think that he may be practising exclusion. Name calling: I doubt it’s allowed and I bet he'd jump on me if things were reversed. Now, my understanding is that encyclopaedias should reflect what is the case, not what should perhaps be the case or what would be more pleasant. They should be based on evidence as Tmo says. GAMECOCK: this is Scots English for Cockerel. It's archaic in English and I have yet to see any evidence of Spurs or Spurs fans calling it such. So I changed it back to Cockerel which I suspect is the reason Tmo has the hump and suggests I am stupid for not understanding a subtle reference. If Tmo wants to mention Gamecock he should propose a sentence that explains that Percy may have called it that, not "subtly" slip it in. LILYWHITES: nobody chants this and nobody calls us this at matches, but it is still referred to, particularly by older soccer fans and commentators. I admit that it is not totally archaic but it is the third nickname, after Yids. So we come to YIDS. This is more common than Lilywhites and I will dig up something to evidence this as if I don't Tmo will not let me state the true case in the entry, even with qualification that it is less of an insult now and more of a sobriquet. BITTER: I will have to evidence is that the rivalry between us and Arsenal is indeed bitter by any standards and congruous with other entries on sports team rivalries - keep an eye on the discussion page. I have Arsenal friends and these days would prefer us to all get on, and to have got on in the past; but that's not the case. Even older and reasonably civilised guys will fall-out over this rivalry and it regularly divides families, even if it not as violent these days as West Ham-Millwall - the adjective for rivalry there should be "violent" and I might change it to that. (BTW Len: I think that Arsenal have played football almost as good as Spurs over the past ten years and have been well-managed, and have no personal axe to grind. Stating that hooliganism happens/happened doesn't make one a hooligan oneself.) Finally, the entry should also mention the colour YELLOW. Spurs also play in all-yellow at times, as well as all-white, especially at Wembley in the FA Cup when you may recall us singing "she wore a yellow ribbon in the merry merry month of May". I'll be sure to evidence it. Finally, if Tmo wants to have a go at me in personal terms I'd be grateful if he/she would do so on my own talk page and try to keep it light. Later: Tmo - have you looked at the North London Derby entry? It looks like it could do with some of your worthy attention - the whole section on "Fans" has no sources or references. I only wanted to insert a few points to the Spurs entry. The entry will certainly get some of my attention when I have the time.]

Herbolzheim (talk) 00:56, 10 September 2011 (UTC) Replied much more briefly on Herbolzheim's own talk page.LenF54 (talk) 15:38, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Replied - see CAPS on my talk page Len. Cheers. Herbolzheim (talk) 16:25, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Paul Bach

I just stubbed the article, because it looked like you had copied much of the text from here. Please review Wikipedia:Copyright violations for more guidance. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:14, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Reply: Apologies, Mark. I had wrongly thought that as long as we quoted the obituary as being a proper source the article would be OK. Thanks.LenF54 (talk) 17:21, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Don't worry, Copyright rules here can be pretty confusing sometimes. This article is another good resource on the topic. Mark Arsten (talk) 18:18, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

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Malcolm McFee (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

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Fixed today. Also link to David Barry. LenF54 (talk) 15:14, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Plaistow County Grammar School

I'm always pleased to see editors developing new articles in their sandboxes. I think this article has great potential. As I'm very familiar with the creation of school articles, I would like very much to contribute to its development. As it is in your user space, I would not like to interfere without your say so. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:48, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

I can understand the challenges you face with your research - HCGS, an article I researched and wrote on a very old school that still very much exists, also presented many obstacles. The school has gone through such metamorphosis that it barely resembles any of its former states. Probably the many changes are the reason why so many records are hard to find - in fact the history section on the school web site is taken from the Wikipedia article. There must be many notable alumni, and there are three non-Wikipedian alumni working on it for me. I won't be able to help you much towards finding references for Plaistow, but I was thinking more on the lines of copyediting your article for structure, style, and flow - I see the makings of a WP:GA there. Regards, --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:56, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

I have made some preliminary edits, here is a summary. Politics removed - these decisions affected many UK grammar schools (including HCGS), and is probably best illustrated in History of education in England and if it's not there, it can be added. (Removed: This resulted from a decision taken in 1965 by Anthony Crosland, then Secretary of State for Education and Science in the Labour government, a fervent supporter of comprehensive education. It had been the party's policy for some time to disestablish grammar schools, which it saw as elitist, replacing them with large neighbourhood comprehensive schools, and this policy decision was implemented by Circular 10/65, an instruction to local education authorities to plan for conversion. In 1970 the Conservative Party returned to government and Margaret Thatcher became Secretary of State for Education and Science. With Circular 10/70 she ended the compulsion on local authorities to convert, but many were so far down the path that it was seen as prohibitively expensive to attempt to reverse the process.) The claim 'Examination results became among the best in the borough' must be either clearly cited or left out. School league table may have been published at the time by the LEA, or reported in the TEs, The Guardian, the BBC, or a local newspaper, although how to locate these records from pre-Internet times is one of the challenges we all face. Likewise, the mention '...with many pupils gaining entrance to university' is not a claim we generally make - it was not uncommon for many students from those grammar school generations to go to university.

See here for changes to the 'History' section.

Notable alumni must either have a Wikipedia page, or be supported by reliable referenced sources (e.g.: see List of Old Malvernians) that confirm their attendance at the school(s).

The school’s badge was featured in the 16 July 1960 issue (No.1829) of the British comic The Rover. Do you have an image for an infobox illustration? (I have already written to one possible source).

What were the house colours?

Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:21, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Update

I now have a copy of the school badge for an infobox illustration. Non Free images cannot be displayed in user space, and orphaned uploads are likely to be deleted, so I'll keep it until the article goes live. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 11:35, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Article now live. I have requested Kudpung add school badge. LenF54 (talk) 16:50, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, LenF54. You have new messages at Kudpung's talk page.
Message added 01:10, 24 July 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

As always, don't hesitate to ask me for any help with school articles, I know our (school) rules can be confusing ;) Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:10, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, LenF54. You have new messages at ChrisGualtieri's talk page.
Message added 17:02, 7 September 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

ChrisGualtieri (talk) 17:02, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Again. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 17:48, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Re:Greengate, London

Do as your wish, I'll reviewing it later. Regards Eduemoni^↑talk↓ 03:39, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

POV on Historic Counties

I have summaried the conclusion of the conversations about disruptive edits and Historic Counties of England. Thanks for you help with this. Should the edits continue, I think we have discussed the issue enough and can move to Dispute Resolution. It is worth noting that the historic_county tag has been removed from place info boxes. Anyhoo. Great working with you! Jonnyspeed20 (talk) 16:05, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, Jonnyspeed20. I confess to feeling a little uncertain of what edits I can make without appearing to be provocative. The article Plaistow, Newham states in the lead, "It is in the historic county of Essex, and was originally a ward in the parish of West Ham, hundred of Beacontree. The town forms the majority of the London E13 postcode district." Adhering as far as possible to the original and umpteen times agreed wording, I would seek to change this to, "It was originally a ward in the parish of West Ham, hundred of Beacontree, and part of the historic county of Essex. The town now forms the majority of the London E13 postcode district." Would I be wrong to make such a change? LenF54 (talk) 16:47, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

Be bold, do it. Seems right to me... and better than the current wording. I think so long as the phrase "historic county of Essex" is maintained, it will be good Jonnyspeed20 (talk) Jonnyspeed20 (talk) 17:02, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks Len, for your work on the Newham page. Appreciate it.

Disambiguation link notification for April 9

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Tottenham Hotspur F.C. Under-23s and Academy, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Chris McGrath.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:02, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

Rectified 09/04/22. LenF54 (talk) 15:52, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

My talk page

Hi Len! Sorry I missed the message you left on my talk page a while ago. Not been too active on Wikipedia lately! PlatinumClipper96 (talk) 18:11, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

July 2023

Hi LenF54! I noticed that you recently marked an edit as minor that may not have been. "Minor edit" has a very specific definition on Wikipedia—it refers only to superficial edits that could never be the subject of a dispute, such as typo corrections or reverting obvious vandalism. Any edit that changes the meaning of an article is not a minor edit, even if it only concerns a single word. Please see Help:Minor edit for more information. Thank you. SuperMarioMan (Talk) 21:05, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

Acknowledged. I regarded adding two sentences to a lengthy article as minor, without considering the content. Thanks for your comments. I now see that several of my edits should not have been marked as minor, and I will be more careful. Cheers. LenF54 (talk) 15:28, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

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