Sat Ra

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Thanks

Thanks for your very friendly welcome, GrooveDog and your offer to support me. But it will take some days to get along with the English Wikipedia. I will have to check out different things first before starting to fill my user page with some information about me. It seems to differ a lot from the German ... I will give my best. --Sat Ra (talk) 21:32, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Nefertiti bust

Thanks for the Nefertiti bust article on German wiki, I must confess that it was my inspiration for expanding the article. The 1923 is backed by 2 references in the article + BBC as well as TIME. I request you to add something about description in the article like the chemical analysis in German wiki since that is a major aspect the article is missing. I did not add it as if anyone asks for verification, I can not quote a proof as I can't read German. --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 13:13, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

The article is nominated for DYK. See Template_talk:Did_you_know#Nefertiti bust. If you want to add new hooks, please do so. --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 13:31, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I am delighted to hear that my work was your inspiration. The German version is still incomplete and I hope to finish it soon.

Concerning your request, I support you and will add the missing parts with verification today or even tomorrow. Should it be placed under “Description and examinations”? But you will have to check my English then.

Regarding the references of the year of the very first exhibition: What are the references of the references? Mistakes happen and I suppose, this is one. Two of my German refs (books, no websites) mention 1924, only one 1923 (a book by Nicholas Reeves that was translated into German). I consider one of them very reliable, as the author’s work is based upon literature of internationally well-known Egyptologists. Among them Dietrich Wildung, former director of the Egyptian Museum Berlin. The Bust was in his hands for 20 years.

Apart from this it is said by the Prussian Cultural Heritage Foundation in a German governmental script regarding the bust:

• Daraufhin stellte er sie detailliert, mit eindrucksvollen Photos in seiner Veröffentlichung "Porträts der Königin Nofretete" vor. Die auf 1923 datierte Darstellung erschien 1924. Im selben Jahr wurde die Büste im Berliner Museum der Öffentlichkeit zugänglich gemacht. (As a result he (i. e. Borchardt) represented her detailed with impressing photos in his publication “Portraits of queen Nefertiti”. The representation dates 1923 and was published in 1924. The Bust was accessible to the public in the same year.) You may look here: (very end of page 5)

I think this is more than trustworthy. Who knows better about the bust’s history than its owner? --Sat Ra (talk) 08:55, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

"The vulture is missing." Something is wrong, what vulture are you talking about? I remember no vulture ever mentioned in context of ancient Egypt. About the date, I am puzzled. Will search try to search English references for 1923. Is there any museum site where a formal description of the bust is given? Museums like LACMA and British Museum do have formal description of the chief artifacts on their sites. --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 14:55, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

So sorry, I didn’t want to puzzle you. Forget the vulture. My mistake. I don’t know how this could happen. My thoughts were gone somewhere else probably.

I have not found any museum giving more details about the bust’s history during the last years until now. Not even the Egyptian Museum Berlin has. It took some time to catch all these information and required a lot of different sources.

The press has to have some problems with dates and this makes it difficult to find things out. (This was and still is one of my problems with ‘The Curse of the Pharao’) The CT-scan for instance really took place in 2007 – not 2009. The bust was scanned first in 1992. One of my sources says ’15 years’ later when explaining the second scan. And the press-information of Siemens Germany about this event is dated 2007 and mentions the documentary about the bust which had been broadcasted in July 2007. Thus the scan can not have taken place in 2009.

Nevertheless one German paper tells the public that it was scanned in 2006 a second time. That’s wrong. Those things make investigations much more difficult. I can’t tell why the scan was topic in the news this March again.

The dates on German websites:

• The documentary is about the bust and mentions 1924 as well
• Siemens Germany press
• Siemens Germany July 24, 2007

I am not used to all editing details in the English Wikipedia yet. Thus could you add this book to the article, please?

• Rudolf Anthes: Nofretete – The Head of Queen Nofretete. Verlag Gebr. Mann, Berlin 1961 (english version)

Thank you. Oh, I added the chemical things meanwhile. Hope it's ok this way. --Sat Ra (talk) 21:44, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for adding chemical analysis. Many books I referred, refer to "Rolf Krauss (1987, 1991), Zur modernen Geschichte der Büste der Nofretete, in: Jahrbuch Preußischer" (which seems to be the most comprehensive study of the bust). Can you trace it? --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 05:23, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

There seems to be 2 CT scans so far: 1. 1992 2. 2006 (2009 report). It is 2006 [1] which refers "Huppertz A, Wildung D., Kemp B. J., Nentwig T., Asbach P., Rasche F. M.,Hamm B., Nondestructive Insights into Composition of the Sculpture of EgyptianQueen Nefertiti with CT, Radiology: Volume 251: Number 1—April 2009, 233–240" --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 05:45, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Please add German references yourself, I feel very awkward to add something I can't read. I will format it then. --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 05:55, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

What is the para in the German bust article where we have 4 picture gallery of Nefertiti. Does the German version have more description of the bust in it? --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 06:10, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, for being late. I am not working online every day. I have ordered the literature of Krauss and hope to get it next week. Luckily we can receive much more information then (to verify more clearly). Thus we will have to wait a few days. Thank you for this very good hint!

Thank you also for finding THIS report about the CT's. I got in German meanwhile. It seems to be this way: First scan: 1992 (that's what a CT-Photo in one of my books confirms; dated April 1992); second scan 2006, published in a tv-documentation in 2007; report in 2009 then. I'll change this in the German article as well. And it shows how inadmissible some sources can be! That's a very annoying fact.

The German para does not mention much more than the English. It's about the dating of the bust, the material, a description of the portrait of queen Nefertiti and its effect, the missing left eye and the examinations. The four pics show different views of the bust like the English does. It's just the different structure to the English version. If I find some more pints to add here, I'll do. --Sat Ra (talk) 23:11, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Can you read and navigate through http://www.neues-museum.de/nm/index.html?r=vestibuel and find there is any info about the bust? --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 15:16, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

copper oxide, Johann Georg (Prussian prince) is a disambig. Do you know which link is right? --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 15:26, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

I'll check this tomorrow --Sat Ra (talk) 10:57, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Copper oxide is fixed meanwhile; as I didn't mention the thing about Johann Georg in the German article, the check will take some time, but I am not very optimistic about a result; I don't have Stierlin' s book to find out more. Some special infos you are thinking about?

I collected some more information and will add these points in the German version:

• Dating methodology (archaeology) – Radiocarbon dating
• The bust within Ancient Egyptian Art and Amarna-Art
• Copies of the bust (real copies, Hitler’s copy)
• current state of preservation

Possibly this will be of interest to you as well. It's not online in German, still in process. --Sat Ra (talk) 21:05, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Congrats for making the German article a FA. --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 05:26, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Thank you! --Sat Ra (talk) 15:42, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

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