Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Harbor Airlines

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. SarahStierch (talk) 04:54, 9 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Harbor Airlines

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Can't find any information on this airline. Since it ran for nearly 30 years, and only ended in 2001, there must be something if it is a real airline. Almost everything I search for ends up as Harbour Air in Canada, a different airline. No sources, all supposition. Canterbury Tail talk 18:00, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Jinkinson talk to me 19:08, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Aviation-related deletion discussions. Jinkinson talk to me 19:08, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Comment. This is nowhere near sufficient to demonstrate notability, but is this paywalled article about the correct company? Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 19:22, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think we've got enough here for me to be confident in flipping the button over to Keep; there's a lot of work to do, but that's not a deletion concern. Nicely unearthed, all. Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 18:05, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:58, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:58, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I found some information about this airline at Flight International: (1973), (1974), (1975), (1981). Note that it was founded already in 1971, known as "Oak Harbor Airlines" until 1974. Only thing is that I did not succeed in procuring later references, so that the claim that the airline existed until 2001 indeed seems dubious. When searching for more sources, be careful no to mix it up with Bar Harbor Airlines from Maine.--FoxyOrange (talk) 10:24, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Addendum: I found a bit more. Harbor Airlines was involved into a fatal aviation accident on 26 December 1974 [1], so one could try and dig for some additional newspaper coverage. This source from the Aviation Safety Network is by the way the only one I could find that puts "2001" as the company's end date. Then, according to [2], they issued timetables at least until 1994. Furthermore, there is a 1998 timetable for a "Harbor Air" (not to be confused with Harbour Air, though). This still might be the same airline (at least the logos are similar); but in order to verify, more research would be needed. Also, it is claimed that the company once was named "Puget Sound Airlines." Now, again according to Flight International, this is not entirely correct [3]: "Puget Sound Airlines" was an alliance of commuter airlines at Seattle/Tacoma in the late 1960s (and at least in these sources there is no word if indeed Harbor Airlines was a member or rather, whether it already existed then at all).--FoxyOrange (talk) 11:58, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I do find it odd that we're having such a hard time with this. The sources are starting to show something, but it's bizarre that that's all we can locate. From some of the sources I'm unsure even if they were actual an airline. One of the sources mentions they have a flight school and private hangers, this implies to me there were a small flight operation that probably did charters and the like. Though the ASN entry does mention Domestic Scheduled Passenger. I just find it odd that we can't come up with anything more. Canterbury Tail talk 13:55, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

And yet another comment (because earlier I did not succeed in accessing Squeamish Ossifrage's link): Indeed, it is about the wanted airline ("Founded in 1971 as Oak Harbor Airlines...", see above), and therefore this source can be used to prove that it still existed in 1999.--FoxyOrange (talk) 12:15, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete although FoxyOrange has found some mentions to prove the airline existed, all (including the Aviation Safety Network crash record) are database entries without significant in-depth coverage. We need more than just proving existence to meet the WP:GNG. YSSYguy (talk) 13:01, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Dear YSSYguy, you are right: My earlier "keep" comment can be considered premature. Rather, I should have made it clear that now, having proven the existence of the airline, it should be easier to find sufficient references so that WP:CORP is passed (especially in offline sources). In its current shape, this Wikipedia article should never have been created, but I see a healthy chance that it can be improved and rescued. After all, it's about a scheduled commuter airline, which (according to various precedents) tend to survive an AfD.

That being said, I did some further research. This Seattle Post-Intelligencer article ([4]) confirms that Harbor Air(lines) suspended operations in early May 2001. Further news articles about that period by the Whidbey News-Times can be found on the internet: [5], [6], [7], [8]. Unfortunately, these are missing a publication date: The "Jun 27, 2008" seems to be the date when the digitalized content was put online. But again, that's nothing that couldn't be fixed. Another source would be [9]; after all, these newspaper articles seem more like "substantial coverage" than Flightglobal's World Airline Directory (though for many airline stubs across Wikipedia, this is the main source). Even more information might be found when searching for items about a) A.J. Eisenberg Airport (a.k.a. Wes Lupien Airport), which was owned and operated by Harbor Airlines, or b) Richard Boehlke, it's later owner who seems to have been involved in some "organized crime stuff". Hey (thanks Canterbury Tail for your "flight school" remark), Harbor Airlines might even be remotely involved in the September 11 attacks (though to be fair, this statement is true for nearly everything): Boehlke was a business partner of Rudi Dekker. Concerning your other "why is it so hard to find sources" comment: That's because it's a small company that largely existed prior to the internet age; and offline stuff is harder to get.--FoxyOrange (talk) 15:38, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I added some more articles, besides Whidbey Daily News articles linked above. There are enough longer articles to establish notability, and I also saw a number of short notices tracking the changes in location and services of the airline over the years. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 17:04, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per work of Bratland and FoxyOrange. Article needs complete re-write, who's volunteering? 78.26 (I'm no IP, talk to me!) 17:13, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I now agree it's a keeper as well, now we've found some sources and actual information. It does need some reworking. We can flag it over at WP:Airline as well. Canterbury Tail talk 17:49, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Please note: I've just rewritten the article, further input would be greatly appreciated (references currently not used are located at the talk page).--FoxyOrange (talk) 21:05, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per FoxyOrange and Dennis above. Fredlyfish4 (talk) 03:25, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.