Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shri Ram Chandra Mission

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus mainly because this discussion is almost indecipherable. There are also far too many comments by single purpose accounts and unregistered users. The article was also never tagged for deletion with an AfD template. I have renominated it at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shri Ram Chandra Mission (2nd nomination). Please keep comments there based in policy and guidelines. Please also sign your posts and indent your posts using bullet points ( * ) at the beginning. Mr.Z-mantalk¢ 20:50, 6 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Shri Ram Chandra Mission

HI all

Since some prefer to post at the top, and not sign their messages as per WIKI, then I will ask, at the top of the page, to respect the posts of other editors and sign in at the bottom of the page, not the top.

Please sign your messages as per WIKI (4 tildes) with date.

Jeanne--J.d'arc 18:45, 6 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

THIS PAGE NEEDS TO BE DELETED. It is full of fabricated views and has been the forum for endless biased edits by a few individuals obviously bent on distorting the truth to serve their purpose of slandering Shri Ram Chandra Mission and Sahaj Marg. The pages for Shri Ram Chandra Mission and Sahaj Marg should be merged to a simple stub - the one proposed by Renee is good and to the point. These pages just need to be locked since history of these edits show that they don't do any justice to the audience of Wikipedia. - SS

PLEASE DELETE: the content of this page is grossly inaccurate at best. I practiced Sahaj Marg for a while and had no adverse reaction to the group or the practice. Because of time constraints i stopped. I have never been forced into any practice or activity and no one is knocking on my door from the group. i am truly appalled at all the false allegations made against this rather open group who are interested in serving spiritual aspirants for free. - kk

Duplication of material on Sahaj Marg page, currently used as a blog to promote a certain POV, no third-source citations, currently used as an attack page Renee 09:01, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Admins...

This page is not a duplication of Sahaj Marg as mentioned above, and represents the history or the legal entity called Shri Ram Chandra Mission. This SRCM has many factions, two of which (one registered in India in 1946, and one registered in California in 1997) are now in Supreme Court of India regarding the control of this entity. Sahaj Marg is the technique taught by this organization and the teachings and methods differ according to which faction one reads.

The article should not be deleted and should remain with some POV's by recent editors removed for a more NPOV article. Sahaj Marg article should be more NPOV and in accordance with WIKI policy. The Sahaj Marg article has deteriorate in the last few months and now has two "non-neutral" editors (one trying to "elimininate" (POV) the articles and one trying trying to include the "cult" POV) and a few "at arms lenght" editors participating peoriodically.

Jeanne --J.d'arc 16:25, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The current Shri Ram Chandra Mission page on Wikipedia is a fabrication of ideas and thoughts of disgruntled individuals. This page has been misused and should be removed immediately. I believed Wikipedia to be a source of honest information, but this seems to take me away from this idea. I would urge the core editorial team to meet people who are currently practicing Sahaj Marg, interact with them over a period of time, practice the system themselves, to understand the efficacy of the system.

The citing of court cases, verdicts, etc, sounds like politics we see in India. Such POVs seem to degrade Wikipedia into a Blog site, and should be completely avoided.

Sharat --User:Sharathegde 04:15, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

DO NOT DELETE

You seem to have two places for comments on deletion. That is not fair or effective. Is there a conspiracy involving some admin? Please fix and make WIKI!

Do not bow to those who would attempt to hide the truth (NPOV facts referenced according to WIKI policy) and then if not able to, to eliminate it. That is not WIKI. FIX the problem and show the truth, not PR. I'll be watching.

Charles --Roicharlemagne 22:48, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletions. Baka man 00:57, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Religion-related deletions. -- John Vandenberg 02:07, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This article is useless in every way imaginable. It is so POV'd that nothing short of a complete rewrite is going to save it. All in all, this article is an example of the absolute worst that Wikipedia has to offer...HOWEVER, an article being bad isn't a reason to delete it, it's a reason to improve it. I see no reason to do anything except keep and improve it. Trusilver 06:22, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as per nom. Anwar 19:24, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Please note that the related article Sahaj Marg is the subject of a mediation case. I'd suggest a procedural close to this AfD (without prejudice to immediate relisting) pending the results of the mediation. Caknuck 00:08, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the current article smells of bias and needs a total rewrite, but the subject is interesting. It deserves the attempt. Rumiton 09:27, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

PLEASE DELETE. There is no doubt that this page should be deleted without delay. What started of as a simple page on the Shri Ram Chandra Mission, a spiritual organization has resulted in what can only be described as perversion, by people who in some way feel antagonistic towards this way of life, each because of certain personal reasons. 4d-don, a blogger who believes the page is his own, is clearly on a path of hate, because he attributes his marital separation to his wife's inclination to attend sunday meetings of the Mission rather than church. If Wikipedia encourages such people, it only results in the perversion of another great ideal - Wikipedia itself. It should also be kept in mind that much of the content posted by these folks is defamatory and in many cases violative of copyright laws. Vivekdurai 07:26, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

DELETE! The current page is full of bias and all references has negative connotations with no information at all - completely against the spirit of Wikipedia. Every attempt of adding some meaningful info about the true spirituality that Shri Ram Chandra Mission serves and promotes have been continually defeated by couple of individuals with a vendetta.

DELETE THIS PAGE Please delete this page as whatever is written on the page is absolutely false. It looks like it is written by people who are motivated by sheer negativity in their hearts. The teachings of Chariji and SRCM are to create love amongst all the people of the world irrespective of caste , creed ,race or religion .Its been 12 years since I started practice and nowhere I have seen force being used to do anything . Meenakshi890 17:48, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

DeletePlease delete this page as this has become place for few individuals like Shahwat and Don to propagate their agenda. There are only handful of individuals who keep writing completely baseless articles everywhere. They are utilizing Wikipedia to give credence to their hatred based agenda. They have successfully managed to make Wikipedia a blog and serving their malicious agenda.

I have been practicing Sahaj Marg for more than 10 years. Spirituality is practicied in highest and purest form here. Everybody is free to practice as well as free to not practice. Nobody asks you if you are practicing or not?

I do not know background of these individuals like Shashwat etc. but I know from my experience that what they say is a pure lie and fabrication. I do not know which group they belong and what is their ulteriormotive of spreading such a lie, but they should not be allowed to abuse Wikipedia forum for propagating their agenda.

Please delete this page immediately. --Nirajsri 10:02, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This Page definetely needs to be deleted in interest of humanity. I am a member of this spiritual organisation for the past 10 years and I have never been forced to do something. Chariji has no forced control over any of the member's lives. Its purely voluntary. Marraiges are never forced upon individuals. Their opinions are definetely asked for and if they themselves want to get married by Chariji's wishes, only then he steps in. In any case its the individuals who make the call in all scenarios. Regarding the forceful control of ashram in shajahanpur, members of SRCM stepped into the ashram's premises only after a high court judgement in favour of us. The case trudged on for around 12 years and not even one member of SRCM even ventured close to the premises. Only after the legality of SRCM's claim over the premises was authenticated by the respectable high court, we called it OUR ashram. Chariji's claim for successorship was never clouded by any mystery and was NEVER EVER rejected by any working committee. 99% of the followers at that time accepted Chariji as the new master with the remaining one standing out for reasons only they know. The reference that chariji has asked us not to refer him as Master is purely contextual as the entire genesis of SRCM's teachings is onus upon oneself. We just promote a healthy way of living which is achieved by maintaing a balance between spiritual and materelistic halves of human existence. No one is ever asked to leave his/her religion. We have people from all walks of live belonging to different religions, castes and geographies. As for the marraige in ashram is concerned it is just to ensure that like minded people meet each other so as to have a happy married life. But there are people who have married outside as well, like my own brother. My sis married a christian whereas we are core hindus. We just believe that segregating people on basis of caste, creed and sex is un called for. All humans are equal and have all the right in the world to live a respectable and happy life.

Finally my most humble submission is please dont believe any of the tirades against SRCM. I am not asking you to believe me as well. Come to our ashram and experience for yourself what truth is. visit our website with the same name and knw the truth straight from the horse's mouth. If still you dont believe any and all of u are most welcome to visit our ashrams spread all over the globe to experience urself. We never impose our opinions on anybody. Learn about it for yourself. - Abhishek

THIS PAGE DOES NOT BEFIT YOU - WIKIPEDIA I have been watching the development of this page and the Sahaj Marg page on wikipedia since Feb 07. I have spent hours reading blogs and entries of some of the main contributors, e.g., Br 4d-don and Br Shashwat, with an open mind trying to understand what is it that they are really trying to get across and why. After spending hours of reading, most of the things they are trying to convey does not sound and feel right. Having been an integral part of this mission for 8.5 years now, all I can say is, this is how they may view it as. I did not respond right away because, really wanted to give time to understand and did not want to react. Recently I came across this statement which seems to be the cause here - "We all see the same thing differently because we all stand at different locations (interpretation wise, understanding wise or evolution wise)." Is this difference or uniqueness not what characterizes us as humans? Now to say that my view is the True view, will again be all too human and our history is replete with incidents of such conflicts, why history, we can pick up the newspaper and look at the present. Well, the point here is such view points or POV as you say, should not be there on Wikipedia because is it not against the very essence of Wikipedia to disseminate opinions? And that's why I say - This page does not befit you Wikipedia! -Duty2love 15:22, 6 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi ALL EDITORS who question the TRUTH of the SRCM article (followers of Chari and SRCM California)

Now that SRCM (California) adherents have been "encouraged" to read "on-line" information (they were not "encouraged" until recently), I would ask that they participate in editing the article and make it more "NPOV", and then stay and discuss with other editors who want to edit their TRUTH. To delete the article does not serve HUMANITY or WIKI. That is simply "GIVING UP" and HIDING the TRUTH which is "corruption" is it not?

Edit the article and get "references" that WIKI admins will accept and see if everyone is "against SRCM (California)". Statements vilifying others and their beliefs or "religions" (as Chari does when he calls relgions such as Hinduism and Catholicism "corrupt") only show the corruption and "un-charitable" nature of SRCM and its adherents. Show references to show how RELIGIONS ARE CORRUPT! And then one can SHOW it on WIKI as the TRUTH according to Chari and not just a TEACHING (POV) of Chari.

The lineage that was developped with the assistance and input of our Sufi brothers and the disputes that were collaborated on by all factions, is recorded in their individual lineages and referenced as such. SRCM attempts to hide the facts when they do not favour them but these facts are the TRUTH according to OTHERS, and they are referenced according to WIKI. If you don't think so, ASK some ADMIN to MEDIATE.

I agree that some recent edits are POV and should be removed or re-written in a more WIKI format.

If anyone finds data that is inaccurate, or POV, pass it and your references by some ADMINS or mediators, for EDITING in WIKI NPOV.

SPIRITUALITY is not afraid of the TRUTH and stands in harmony of the NPOV TRUTH!

Jeanne--J.d'arc 18:45, 6 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.