Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/SuperKombat (3rd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete all. Strong arguments were made regarding the lack of coverage in reliable sources, WP:ROUTINE, and WP:EVENT. Jayjg ^(talk) 20:44, 18 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

SuperKombat

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

I have notified the participants at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/SuperKombat (2nd nomination): Papaursa (talk · contribs), Umi1903 (talk · contribs), BusterD (talk · contribs), Astudent0 (talk · contribs), and Mtking (talk · contribs).

Single-purpose accounts were not notified.

Sockpuppeteer WölffReik (talk · contribs) (see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/WölffReik) was not notified.

Madison-chan (talk · contribs), blocked for vandalism and tagged as a sockpuppet of SailorSonic (talk · contribs) was not notified. Cunard (talk) 07:01, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting per Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2011 November 29, where DRV closer Spartaz (talk · contribs) wrote regarding the previous AfD:

Its pretty clear that this was a defective discussion. The SPA votes should all be discounted unless they advanced well founded policy based arguments. However, from the discussion I'm reading here, the delete arguments failed to address the possibility of sourcing that was provided on the talk page and consequently deleting this would have been a poor outcome. As such a close of no consensus appears reasonable and perhaps could be considered as something of a not proven deletion case. While I am loath to encourage unending further discussion, its clear that a proper consensus can be found by examining the possibility of sourcing and directly addressing them and that no benefit would be gained by delaying this, so I'm closing this with permission to immediately relist at afd.

At the previous AfD, participants supported deletion based on WP:ROUTINE and WP:SPORTSEVENT. However, the "delete" arguments did not analyze the sources mentioned by OlYeller21 (talk · contribs) on the talk page:

Coverage from reliable sources

I'm seeing several hits in a Google News search and Google News Archive search. I can't read most of them but it indicates to me that a G4 may probably doesn't apply after reading through the arguments made at this article's previous AfD. OlYeller21^Talktome 17:23, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Because I cannot read the sources in OlYeller21's searches, I cannot tell whether they establish notability and will take no position on them.

The following pages are also nominated for deletion:

As the previous nominator wrote: "I am also nominating the following related pages because they are either the events sponsored by the organization or, in the case of LocalKombat, an organization run by the same people promoting smaller events."

I am confident that the closing admin will discount the non-policy-based arguments advanced by both single-purpose accounts and established editors.

This is a procedural nomination. I am neutral. Cunard (talk) 06:43, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete all clearly fails WP:SPORTSEVENT. coverage is limited to fighting sources, not a wide range of non fighting sources like mainstream newspapers. LibStar (talk) 07:09, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete does not seem to be match the criteria. Pundit|utter 15:34, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 13:10, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 13:11, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Merge - Merging all into a single SuperKombat article would seem to make more sense than deleting everything. SuperKombat is a pretty series of regular tournaments with a large (83 country) broadcast and there are plenty of references that can be found for the article. That's notable.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Stvfetterly (talk • contribs) 16:41, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete all I couldn't find good reliable sources. The translations I found were either simply fight results or about the banquet SuperKombat threw after its Grand Prix final. I don't find anything that shows the events pass WP:GNG or WP:SPORTSEVENT. Astudent0 (talk) 19:24, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete all & salt all none of these come close to WP:GNG, this is a waste of the communities time. Mt king ^(edits) 21:51, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and salt all per WP:RECENTISM, WP:EVENT, clear WP:PROMOTION and WP:NOTNEWSPAPER. I refuse to enter the arena of sources and here's why: virtually every day we have sporting events which include notable sports personalities, in stadiums which are notable, teams coached by notable coaches, reported on in reliable and notable sports sections around the globe. We have articles on virtually none of these individual events. Arsenal F.C. has been kicking soccer balls past defenders for 125 years and only 47 of their individual matches have articles in the pedia (almost all championships). Thousands of notable boxers have been bashing each others' brains out for over a century and only 126 of those bouts have articles about them (and no boxing cards which I can see). The New York Yankee organization alone has played several tens of thousands of games, virtually every one of them meeting GNG (based on newspapers and the sporting press as sources) but outside of perfect games and championship games, almost no games with articles about them. WP:ROUTINE sporting events just don't rate coverage in an encyclopedia. The reason I raise all this WP:OTHERSTUFF is the threshold of common practice, what wikipedians do in practice based on boatloads of OTHERSTUFF. Thrilla in Manila, yes. SuperKombat World Grand Prix IV? Please... BusterD (talk) 23:44, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the individual tournaments could probably be removed as non-notable, but to remove all mention of the recurring event (the SuperKombat article) as a whole would kind of be like deleting Basketball because not all NBA games are notable.--Stvfetterly (talk) 14:59, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comment. I disagree with the analogy, and I'll offer instead what I think is a more accurate one. I'm not advocating deletion of the pages Kickboxing or Mixed martial arts. I'm asserting that a Scout Pack #722 bake sale in which Emeril, Rachael, and Martha donated some of the cookies doesn't merit a Wikipedia article just because some of the scouts and their parents have internet access, have decided to promote the sale here, and almost all of them decided to use multiple accounts in violation of policy in order to affect the AfD process. BusterD (talk) 20:39, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete All per Astudent0. --Legis (talk - contribs) 06:55, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Very Strong Keep The pages clearly meet the basic criteria and for this reason should not be deleted. BigzMMA (talk) 10:29, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

How do you come to that concision, what coverage exists is just routine of a sporting event, nether the company or there events have attracted significant coverage outside of that, so if you contend they do you need to provide the sources you are basing your comment on or risk having it discounted by the closing admin. Mt king ^(edits) 21:22, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It meets the basic criteria supporting notability through GNG, and I find it a shame that no-one else is looking for this type of coverage. BigzMMA (talk) 12:27, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You can say that all you like, but unless you can demonstrate it with links to sources it is likely to be discounted by the closing admin. Mt king ^(edits) 19:26, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment User WölffReik just added the entire previous discussion to this one. I just reverted it. Mdtemp (talk) 16:47, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What does User:WölffReik have to do to get blocked? Multiple abuses of socking and gaming of AfD procedures, including this third attempt at a fair discussion. Why isn't this user blocked indef? He or she is clearly here for another reason than creating an encyclopedia (except for a promotional MMA/kickboxing one). BusterD (talk) 23:43, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You may want to consider bringing this issue to WP:AN/I. I, Jethrobot ^{drop me a line} (note: not a bot!) 23:55, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I didn't find enough independent sources in any language to show notability. The individual events are worthy of a strong delete--they don't come close to meeting WP:SPORTSEVENT. Mdtemp (talk) 16:47, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as lacking in-depth coverage in reliable, independent third-party sources. Should such sources be integrated into the article, feel free to leave a note on my talk page and I'll take another look. Stuartyeates (talk) 01:47, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Very Strong Keep Criteria supporting notability:

1. Subject of multiple independent articles/documentaries--articles should be from national or international media, not just local coverage 2. Promotes a large number of events--the more fights it has sanctioned, the more notable 3. Has actively been in business for several years--the longer the organization has been around, the better 4. Large number of well-known and highly ranked fighters 1. Coverage in 83 countries, all the events live on Eurosport which is international television not only European. Possible contract with HD Net in future. 2. Promoted 7 events in 2011, 6 in Romania and 1 - the final from Germany, 5 shows were World Grand Prix. 3. Yes, SuperKombat's mother is the well known organization Local Kombat (promoted events with K-1 and other European promotions from Croatia, Hungary, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Poland and Czech Republic from 2003 to 2010). Same founder. LK was broadcasted by HD Net some events like K-1 Europe's GP in Bucharest - 2010, not only Eurosport, you can check out. 4. Hesdy Gerges current It's Showtime champion, Albert Kraus former K-1 Max champion, Alexey Ignashov, Ben Edwards, Errol Zimmerman, Mighty Mo, Bob Sapp, Carter Williams, etc. all fought in the promotion in 2011. All are known from K-1. What are some users trying to do? To destroy the kickboxing database while MMA has here all kind of obscure promotions pages? Not only from United States, but also from Europe. User:Rickr20 (talk) 18:22, 16 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Weak delete main article, strong delete the rest The events fail WP:SPORTSEVENT and Local Kombat lacks significant independent coverage. As for SuperKombat--it is a new organization that has only 7 promotions, almost all in Romania. The TV coverage of their events is nice, but seems to fall under routine sports coverage. The sources seem to generally be routine reporting of results. Jakejr (talk) 11:11, 17 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.